Here is our new one yes the other was getting to long. Since I print them out so I don't miss anyone. We are doing great. SIL not coming. My D is undesided now, teenagers ! Working on visitations and contact issues. No LB'ing yet. I'm calmer now, I think she may be calming down and realizing he is w/who he wants to be with and I will be a part of OC life. I'm not going anywhere. Well I'm going to catch up now. Talk to ya'll in a while.
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> Sunny

But I will miss the other thread soooo much. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

Just kidding, it was getting way too long.

Well my update for today is H has been text messaging me hot & heavy all day mostly about SF. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="images/icons/blush.gif" /> I guess I should be happy he still wants me as I believe, (pray I am not being foolish), that he has been faithful since his return home. It pisses me off though that he can't get that hot & heavy about US working thru our issues. At this point I need him to let me know that he still loves me & wants to work on us first & that he wants to have his D in our lives as a blended family.

I am thinking of writing him a letter about how I feel stating that his D & OW are not my main concern right now. I just don't want to feel like I am wasting time with him, & if he can't or does not feel like he can fully commit to me & our M then we seriously need to think about him leaving & me doing PB. I know this is a serious stray from the 180's but I don't think it can hurt at this point, I will not LB at all just want to give him something to really think about.

As you can tell I am not too good at sitting still & letting God work this out for me. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

I know what you mean. Limbo land is not a good place to be. H still has a fear I'm going to run when the OC gets here. I wonder if thats what he wants me to do? No I don't think so. He has been so commited to making our M better that I just can't see that. Told him no, wasn't planning on skipping yet. Kinda quiet, we have a lot planned this weekend and then its back to the cabin for the long weekend. Can't wait!! 3 days of lovin, laughin, and playin! Getting visitation stuff in our minds. When to what and how. This is such a head ache. I hope everyone is doing well and have a good evening.
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> Sunny

Hey girls,

I am glad we started a new thread I was having trouble keeping up. But back to business, I hear what you all are saying and I think that we all have come to some resolutions in our lives. The main thing now is to continue to move forward.

I know that I feel like I am the one who's blocking my relationship from moving forward. I identified this with not only my actions, but while watching Dr. Phil today at work (if you did not see it look at it in his website www.drphil.com)I think his relationship excerpts really will help and inspire all of us to some degree. I found that I had to release the pain and anger of his affair. I connected with Nora and Paul's story to some degree.

I kinda feel like Paul. I know that that is not helpful to my marriage to harbor this anger and rage towards my H for his affair and pregnancy. I must either get back into the M or check out of the the M.

With God's help I think it's time for me to check back into the M. H tells me that he's trying but I keep throwing it up in his face daily. i admit it I do. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />
I have to honestly change in order for H, and our M to change.

Thanks I'm rambling but I'll talk to you later it's time to leave work.

JT

No real update--same <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> SSDD <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> --H said he was done on Saturday but still been coming by everyday and calling --not a day without phone contact or him stopping by--again action are different then his words--we will see if anything comes out about being done when he goes to visit family. he said he was going to tell them that he was going to get a D but then again he already supposedly told them--guess he forgot that <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> HE is obviously confused with who he has told what too.

I will post an update tonight after he stops by on his way to work.

Hello,

Sunny - Glad to hear SIL is not going to be w/ you - you have enough on your plate. Concentrating on you & H is best right now, OW & visitation issues are not a priority at the moment, & don't forget DNA test! H is probably insecure about you leaving him once OC is here cuz of the guilt he feels about all this, probably knows if he were in your shoes he'd be long gone. That is difference most of us women are way tougher than they give us credit for. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

JT - You have to work on the anger issue, I know it is hard, but you have to stop throwing up the affair, OW, OC. I think someone mentioned to you before to take up kick boxing or some other activity to let out your anger any target except H! If you can't let go of the past you will never move forward together w/ your H. You can't keep punishing H cuz you are hurt, find another outlet for your anger.

Albany - just keep playing the game - PA/180's It is not easy either I know, but you are a strong woman, never forget that!

As for me I had another text messaging session w/ H, got off the SF stuff & actually had a conversation of sorts about us, he actually had the nerve to tell me that he loves me but sometimes I make him so damn mad! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> I didn't LB, though tempted, told him we both know what buttons to push to tick each other off & we BOTH have to work on that. I got the feeling he pefers talking this way, I can't imagine why???? LOL

I think I may hold off on the letter, we will see what happens when he gets home tonite.

Whew! glad that's over. No time right now but just for a quickie (hey! now there's an idea! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> )

Therapist appt. went as I expected and nothing like I feared! Over-anxious & over-reacting I guess.

Therapist basically reiterated everything we have been trying to tell OW but I'm sure it sounds much better coming from a "professional"(again!).

I think therpist knows EXACTLY what is up.

Gotta run now.
God Bless!

Hey girls!!

kt - glad to hear that counceling went well for you. Hope OW gets the point and starts doing what is best for OC.

Well, H told me tonight that he is still not sure if he is going to ultrasound or not. It just makes me so mad, because I am pretty sure he will go. He gets something in his mind and just has to go through with it. He wants to be there, who care how it affects me. I really should be use to that. Do they ever stop thinking of themselves first? I am just not sure how I will react if he goes. It just hurts to think that he is going to experience something so personal w/ OW - like that hasn't happened before. I just wish it would end. I understand why he wants to go, but I guess I have a sinking feeling that if he goes that he will just reconnect w/ OW. What little progress we have made will go down the drain. As usually, what I feel and want is at the bottom of H's list. Don't get me wrong, I am not giving up. It is just another hurdle to overcome. I get tired of all these hurdles. I guess the road to a better future is not an easy one. We all know that, and we will all survive it.

Talk to you all later!
God Bless,
Kris

KT,

Glad everything was not as intense or overwhelming as you thought it would be.

It is good that the therapist knows what is up w/ OW & maybe she can get her to see the light & accept the fact you aren't going anywhere, & stop making up the stories about OC having behavioral problems, only w/ you & your family though, how convenient huh?

Have a good nite!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Well my update for today is H has been text messaging me hot & heavy all day mostly about SF. I guess I should be happy he still wants me as I believe, (pray I am not being foolish), that he has been faithful since his return home. It pisses me off though that he can't get that hot & heavy about US working thru our issues. At this point I need him to let me know that he still loves me & wants to work on us first & that he wants to have his D in our lives as a blended family.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">BG - Sounds like progress to me. If he wants to communicate through text messages, then go for it. Anyway you can talk to him opens up that door to recovery. H and I have some of our best conversations through email. I think it is easier for him to communicate without looking at me. Seeing me reminds him of all the hurt. That and I can edit my messages over email to make sure I say what I really want. So much easier than saying the first thing that comes to my mind and out my mouth - gets me in trouble sometimes.

And if H wants SF, go for it. In one of the two counceling sessions with our Pastor, our Pastor told us to set the bedroom on fire. He said that is one of the best ways for a married couple to overcome problems. It certainly can't hurt to try. Problem with H and I, he took advice, but set the wrong bedroom on fire. Now we are all burned. I am the one begging these days for SF, which is quite a change from pre A days. I think my H just takes what he can get these days.

Anyway, point is communicate however and whenever you can with H. He will begin to open up more. Take it one step at a time.

God Bless,
Kris

Kris,

I pray that your H comes to his senses & realizes that it is not necessary to be at US w/ OW & the hurt & pain it will cause you as if you haven't suffered enough over this already. I am so sorry, I hope & pray if comes to his senses & stays away from her dr. appts. etc.

Hang in there.

BG - It is just so hard. I feel like this whole thing has taken so much from me. Things that H and I should be sharing together, he now wants to share w/ OW. I should be the one having that baby, I should be the one having that ultrasound tomorrow, it should all be mine, but it is not. Now who sounds selfish. That witch has taken so much from me, and now she is taking the memories and precious experiences I have shared with H and creating new ones. It all really sucks.

For so long after our DD was born, I wanted to have a third. H was very insistent on no more kids. He did not want any more, two was enough. He knew how much I wanted to have one more, but I gave in and said okay. Let me correct that, it wasn't an option. In time, I got to the point that I didn't think I wanted anymore. Now look who is having a baby? I just feel that she is having the baby I was meant to have, and I will never get to have that experience again. I hate her for that!!

See I knew this whole ultrasound thing was just going to send me back to day one. Things like this just bring back all the pain of finding out about the affair to begin with. I sure hope H is not reading this. It will give him yet another excuse to run and hide from his mistakes.

God help me. I thought I was getting past this anger. Please give me more strength to get through tomorrow. If an ultrasound effects me like this, how am I ever going to handle the birth?

Thanks for listening.

Kris

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Sounds like progress to me. If he wants to communicate through text messages, then go for it. Anyway you can talk to him opens up that door to recovery. H and I have some of our best conversations through email. I think it is easier for him to communicate without looking at me. Seeing me reminds him of all the hurt. That and I can edit my messages over email to make sure I say what I really want. So much easier than saying the first thing that comes to my mind and out my mouth - gets me in trouble sometimes.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Kris, I didn't see this post before off line last nite, I think you may right about not wanting to look at me when we talk, plus it is easier, won't last as long can't say as much. In a way it is better for me too, since I tend to let comments fly out of my mouth sometimes w/o thinking, this way I can really plan what I want to say. I only got the feature on my phone cuz I knew he had it so maybe it will be worth it?? I know that SF is very important in any M I just sometimes feel like I am not getting all that goes w/ that, the affection & tenderness out of the bdrm, & I miss that & it seems to be hard for him to show that to me like he used to. I definitely agree w/ the now we are all burned comment. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Well we had a good nite, talked a little bit about him giving me more time & attention, & I didn't LB or bring up his daugther. I didnt push for conversation & I know he was happy about that. So we will see what today brings.

Kris - I am so sorry that you are going thru this w/ H seemingly wanting to be more involved in OW pg. It makes me so angry that your H could be so selfish, yes HIM not YOU. I dont' blame you at all for feeling that way, & as christians I know we are supposed to love everyone but I have felt hatred for OW many a time, how could we not. Yes H was a willing participant but OW deliberately set out to destroy a M & tear apart a family. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

God won't put more on you than you can bear, & I know you feel like you cannot handle another minute of this but you can & you will, God will strenghten you, he is with you, sees every tear & knows every pain you are suffering. He will see you thru this to the end & he will bring you out of it stronger & better than ever.

I am keeping you in constant prayer, sweetie.

Okay girls, I know I said I would update you all last night but nothing knew really happened and I was really busy making sure everything was packed for my son.

He came over at about 6:50 am this morning and called as he was leaving work--he had done a preliminary interview for a supervisor job--they were surprise interviews--he and two others guys had thm this morning--my H went first since he had to get going--he said they consisted of about 10 questions and lasted about 35 minutes.

So to get to the main point--he was in a good mood--just really tired and said it was tiring to do interview after 12 hour shift. I could tell the minute he walked in that he was happy.

So we talked about what I had ready for Bailey and then he says do you think you could go in half an hour late and I said no--but I knew exactly what he had in mind and wanted when he proceeded to go take a quick shower <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> so yes if you guessed SF <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> you were right and so I let that happen and well it was great-- <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> had to be quick --I had to leave in 25 minutes to go to work!

He actually gave me a kiss and hug goodbye--we SF means something a little different to men then to us women. I told him I loved him etc., and feel I left things on a very good note <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">and feel I left things on a very good note </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Sounds like it to me too. That is great, all H has to think of when he is daydreaming about the last time he was w/ you are very pleasant memories! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

How long will they be gone? Do you have plans to keep yourself busy?

WAY TO GO ALBANY!!!!!! See, now if you started plan b, imagine what H last impression of you would be?

I'm gonna start another "online book club" thread suggestion, I think it would also be very helpful for all of us.(as if you don't have enough reading suggestions for you!)

Kris, I am sorry that your H is so caught up in this. Also, keep up the SF. We all know how important it is to our marriages and we are in denial if we don't admit how much it reconnects us to our spouses.

hmmm...Let's think, how can you expres your displeasure of H going to ultra-sound but not LB? I completely understand the point of not wanting any connection to be there.

My H is @ the point of realizing this. @ the appointment yesterday OW tried to bring up the fact that communication is w/ me NOT H. Therapist just ignored it so we didn't give our reasons for it but later, H was like (to me), I don't want it any other way because I don't want OW to think/feel or have any idea that there is any connection w/ her about this.

And it's not like OW would want him "back" kind of reconnection but that H has NO attachment in any way shape or form, it is purely w/ OC & that is it. A completely separate entity. You know what I mean?

Hang in there girls. Focus on your priorities and what is important and let all teh rest fall away. That is what the "new book" is about.

They will be back on Saturday around 6:30pm. I don't really have any plans. I plan to run some errands--go tanning--my arms are great from outside but the rest of me is white--so plan to go for a few minutes today and Friday after work.

I hope to pick up a few books to read and generally speaking not do a lot unless I want to--no have to do things--probably eat cereal for dinner or maybe pie and icecream-who knows.

Had you read those other two books KT??? I would read on these books while H was gone but I was cheap and ordered them online--much cheaper than our local Walden Books-but now I have to wait for them and I don't think that they are to arrive until next week.

I'm also glad I didn't write letter do PB when he left. He just called to say that he had evereything pakced up and that they were heading to airport--flight leaves at 1:00pm and the drive is a little over an hour but he figured that would be plenty of time of check in and then they could get something to eat--don't want a hungry 2 1/2 son flying. He was in good mood but who wouldn't be after SF <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> I'm feeling positive about visit--not thinking that he is going to tell them that he is done.

KT,

Question for you - do you think it is crazy of me to try & now focus on the relationship between me & H, & worry about the visitation & OW issue later.

I guess I figure at this point it has been over a yr. that his D comes over to the house on a irregular basis & I know that now he sees her at daycare everyday so I don't think he is still seeing her at OW's apt. but I am not sure. So I think it is time to focus on us since I can do nothing about the other issue at this time.

What do you think.

Good morning to all !!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> ALB go girl! BBG I'm still praying real hard for you! Kris, I can't remember, is H living w/ you or is he in a hotel still? Was H happy about the OC or was he mad? Did you descuss these issues when you first found out? I know from the get go I said no, but he said he didn't want to be apart of what he was kinda forced into. But thats what he is telling me. If you didn't ant it, didn't plan it, mad because you helped cause it, then whe be in support of it, why show support to someone who wants to distroy your family. I know our XOW wants nothing more than to see me throw him out. But one day (maybe today) she will realize we are stronger than that.
kt most of the time we spend worrying for nothing. Thinking the worst, my worst habit, is hard not to do. Keep up the good work.

Me and H are like old friends again. We talk, yes about other things besides OC and OW. He still is testing the waters. He doesn't know how I'm going to react at any givin time, but I have been good, no LB'ing just as a matter of fact kinda thing, Ok, whatever kinda thing. We are in town this weekend, which I hate, but we will be busy, so I guess that is good.

Jt I'm praying for you girl and I will send you a hug (((((((((((((((((((HUG)))))))))))))))))))
It so hard to keep your sprits up. Keep praying and keep your ears open to what the lord want you to do. Making a decision such as this takes time and lots of praying. Your kids deserve to see their mom happy and dad. They also need you together, if possible. Like I said you are on my mind, and I hope today goes well for you.
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> sunny

Albany, I skimmed through the 10 stupid things couples do but found it frustratng because it was for COUPLES but only I was reading it. I loved the "Proper Care...aFoH" because it was concrete things I could do to change and improve my marriage.

BBG--I think it is a very big step to focus on your relationship w/ H and let the other go for now. It is crucial to realize what we can really change and what we are willing to tolerate if it cannot be changed. It's about choices and sometimes things are very important to us and we will not/should not budge. Other times things are very important to us and we will not budge but then it loses priority to us and we are willing to compromise because we have realized something else is more important. Where is the harm in that? It's all about choices.

For example, when H finally told me the "truth" about A, a week before CS hearing, after all these years of thinking I already knew the truth, and now 8 1/2 months pg w/ baby #3, I was PISSED to say the least and felt like H purposely trapped me by not telling me until it would be harder for me to leave. I made ANOTHER choice to stay. It was true, it was harder for me to leave but not impossible. I had more to think about w/ 3 kids now, one just under 2 yrs and one about to be born. So I made a choice based on my priorities and that was for my kids and what I wanted for them. I knew that it would be harder for me, emotionally, mentally, even physically.

I was determined to make this marriage work though, even if only for my kids. But by staying focused on my priorities, I am committed to making this an enjoyable, loving marriage between my H & I FOR my kids.

So to make a long repsonse even longer, I see nothing wrong w/ you making that choice (even not having kids together, your marraige is important to you and is your priority).

Hello all, I hope you don't mind if I join in. I was not on the original long post.

KrisM, I just wanted to comment that your posted sounded like it came from my mouth. We are dealing w/ a similar issue in that my H wants to be in the delivery room. I feel the same way about that as you do the US. What will you do if he goes to the US, the next one and then the delivery room? How do you feel about it if it's not just a one time thing.

ktbunch, glad that things went so well for you. I hope that someday we are as unified as you are.

KT

Thank you so much for your advice, I have come to the conclusion that fighting w/ him regarding visitation issues is something he is not going to budge on right now.

Yes I could have walked away clean, but my M is a priority to me, for all the right reasons #1 I still believe God joined us together & does not want our M to end in DV. I am thinking maybe if I put all my emphasis on our M & getting that back on track, issues w/ the baby coming to the house will be worked out eventually. When that subject comes up all I end up doing is LBing anyway so it is best to leave it alone right now.

Thanks again & always know you are a great source of inspiration to all of us wanting our M's to be in recovery & have contact w/ OC. I know it is not easy, but it can be done, you show us that & I am grateful for you. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Hey girls,

Today has been a good day. H took us(the kids and I) to dinner last night it was great. Did not LB at all - thanks to all of you. I looked great if I must say so muself. I bought a new dress and have lost a couple of pounds so it was refreshing to say the least. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

H is about to pick me up from work with the kids to go visit their new daycare. They start on Monday so today we are taking them to get a look at it and see how they respond to it.

H felt a little better that I did not LB. H looked like a doting father with us last night, he was great with the kids and me. It was almost like old times I enjoyed being with him.

I must trust that with us is where he wants to be and go with the flow. I no longer want to hurt my kids, him,or myself with my anger about the situation.

Thanks all I'll update later.

Good to hear from you KT, Kris, Sunny, Albany, BBYG, and anyone else I may have missed.

Love you all,
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />
JT

LMF-Of course we don't mind if you join in.

JT2-glad to hear you had a good evening <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

KrisM--Hang in there-I know you can do it. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> I know it is hard at times--okay realisticly all the time, but I know that you can do it.

Sunnydale-it looks good in your neck of the woods.

AD-I haven't heard from you and hope that you are feeling better.

JT,

That is great, I am so glad to hear some good news! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Sunny,

Sounds like you two are right on track.

Keep it coming w/ the good news ladies. Looking forward to hearing more!!!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> LMF-Of course we don't mind if you join in.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">We certainly don't mind. We are all here for each other. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I give up!

H called said they arrived safely. He called later about getting e-mail password because they were e-mailing him about two job openings in Boise. I called him back to ask him what type of jobs they wer and he said you already looked and I said I can view them--I think he downloaded them and doesn't realize it.

Anyway he became a complete a*?hole and told me I was nosey and he was done and became a different person then this morning. I said you told your parents and he said yes I told them and you need to move on and I said are you moving to Boise and he said probably and I could here his Mom in the background.

Her and I talked on her way to the airport to pick them up and she said she was sure he wouldn't say anything and didn't think he was done and she promised to get a hold of me and let me know.

I truly felt a warmth between us this morning and I'm shattered and I feel really degraded after this morning SF and I'm just really, really upset and really hurt.

I don't think that their is anything else that I can do--I feel like I have tried it all and I'm so hurt after this morning--He was so different this afternoon then this morning before and after SF--I guess I just don't what real or unreal anymore and I guess I don't know him at all. I can't wait to hear from his Mom and I don't I will get a chance to--I'm so upset and saddened and my heart aches and I wish I didn't love him.

So sorry Albany. Sounds like both our H's are being real jerks tonight. Concentrate on yourself and doing what is best for you. I am so drained over all this crap, and yet the pile keeps getting deeper.

My H went to ultrasound today. I just can't believe he went through with it. I had printed off my last post from last night, so he knew exactly how I felt about it. Yet he went. I guess I know where I stand w/ H. Better yet, I guess I know where OW still stands with H. I can't believe he would yet again put her needs and his needs above mine. OW is probably all smiles. She knows what this means - that she can still come between H and me. That she still has a chance to steal away my family. I have been bouncing back and forth tonight between hurt and anger.

I was really mad because our DS was late for his baseball practice because dad wasn't home to take him. I took him late when I got home from work and picking up DD from sitters. Already this OC is coming before our kids. How can he put OC before BC????? I can almost understand how he can hurt me so much(not really), but I will never understand the hurt he is and will cause our kids. That infuriates me.

Got home from the park and H had called. He had left me a note on something that needed done at house. Wanted to remind me to do it and that he would be at house in morning to get DS to school. I almost wish he would stay away. I don't want to face him. I can't wait till school is over - kids can go to sitters when I go to work and I won't have to see H. I don't know where I stand in all this anymore. Next I am sure he will want to be at delivery too. Don't think I can handle that. I trust God knows what he is doing, because H sure is screwing up.

DD is throwing one heck of a tantrum tonight. Does anyone know if this comes with age 5 or is it a sign she is having trouble with all this? She is normally my mellow, shy child. Lately she has been a holy terror. Didn't know if it was the age or her way of expressing her feelings concerning dad? At one point during tantrum she said she was moving and living alone. I wonder where she got the idea that this is the thing to do when there is a problem????? I try to talk to her, she says she is tired. Yet she asks me all the time if I feel better. This has all got to stop. I can't let this effect the kids like this. That is what pisses me off more than anything. My hurt I can handle. Hurting the kids, mama gets mad. I am at a loss again for what is best for them. A stable home life, or a life with mom and dad and no guarantee that dad won't bolt at the first sign of trouble. What is that telling them? Obviously my 5yo already sees that as a way to deal with problems.

Sorry, I am rambling. So many things going through my mind right now.

Any advice on how to handle H when I see him??

Thanks for listening again.
Kris

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">My dear friends, take heart from this precious verse in 2 Timothy
2:13: "Even when we are too weak to have any faith left, He remains
faithful to us and will help us, for He cannot disown us who are part
of Himself, and He will always carry out His promises to us"!
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I just read this in a devotion and it made me feel a little better. I thought I would share. Isn't it funny how these messages appear when we need them most.

Remember to walk by faith, and not by what you see. God has the situation under control. Focus on faith and not what our H's actions show us. Stop doubting and believe in God.

God Bless,
Kris

KrisM~

Make sure you have cooled off so you can talk about this rationally--although I'm not sure if that is possible. I would ask why he and try get our his reasons feelings for going--I think starting with a pointed finger will cause a fight that nothing good will come of.

Did your H want her to have this baby or keep it--I can't remember??

SOmetimes I wish I was in your shoes--mine isn't even a matter of OW and OC right now. Mine is just that he is done but his actions don't show that.

Part of me can understand why they would want to go but part of me doesn't and out of respect I wonder how they can go.

You see my H did not want OW to have baby and intitially she told him she wouldn't and then when came down to it that didn't happen and my H tried to convince her that this was not the way to bring a child into the world into this mess it didn't ask for and that he thought the very best thing would be adoption but she wouldn't do that--I think that my H almost despises this child that is almost here.

Shortly after I found out she was pregnant I broke down one evening in front of him--that was when he wanted nothing more than to make it work and he loved us and would do anything to keep the family together and we would face this and get through it--where that went is beyond me--but back to the point I said our son isn't special anymore and I said I feel like that has been stripped away and he said why and i said because you have a child with another women and he said that our son was very special in his eyes because he was wanted and made out of love.

Oh Yah--the update--talked to his Mom just a few ago and she said that he hasn't said anything--that $^(&$#&U)%* $()%*#&*($#?!?! yah you get my points lots of words flying--but you know that isn't cool to do that to me--I would never do that--not right and I want you to know I'm really bent out of shape and degraded by SF--what a slap in the face to think that there was something there this morning--some warmth--I guess I not a good judge of his feelings and state of mind anymore.

Hang tough--I know I say I give up but I haven't told my parents anything yet so I know that I'm not done.

I don't think that you were wrong about your H's feelings this morning - that is really hard to fake. I think he just sounds really confused. Maybe you shouldn't push so hard. Don't focus on all this crap all the time. Try to recreate what you had prior to. I think that is what BG is doing right now. Trying to fix marriage and then deal with all the issues together. I hope it works out for all of you.

How does my H feel about OC? That is the million dollar question. When I first found out about A, I asked H if he told OW that he did not want any more kids. He has been insistant on that since our last one was born. OW is younger and made it clear that she wanted kids. H's reply was that he would consider having one with her. That never set well with me. I obviously wanted more, but was denied the opportunity. Then all of a sudden, he was willing to with OW. Little did we know that is had already happened. I am not so sure H was ready for it. I don't know what he feels about this child. I think he is still shocked that it is happening. His comments about ultrasound was that he has felt left out of pregnacy and wanted to be there. Maybe it is one way to accept reality. I don't know. Doesn't excuse the fact he knew full well what I thought of him going, and yet he went.

I just found a note from him on bed. I have been telling H that we can handle this OC issue together. After he read the post I left for him, his response was basically that he knew I couldn't handle it. No I can't handle it alone. I could handle it if we made these decisions together. H just does not get it. I suppose he will take this as some sign that things can't work out for us. I probably screwed up by leaving him that post. I just thought it would help him understand why I didn't want him to go to US. Note also said the he had to go because he couldn't get it out of his head. Says he didn't plan this, just screwed up (I think he is talking about OC there, not US).


Anyway, I am fairly calm at the moment. I just really don't know what to say to H anymore. I don't think my feelings matter to him. He does what he wants and that is that.

Talk to you more later.
Kris

So I'm I not suppose to dwell on what he said this afternoon??? How do you ignore those things and not dwell???

Also annoyed becasue I was putting garbage outside and found empty pack of cigs--which he said he had quit when he got the lung infection--asked him two days okay and he said he wasn't smoking. Maybe it was an old pack--I shouldn't jump to conclusion but I pissed. He started when we were split up and quit when we got back together and then started again when he told me about OC. You think that if you are prone to lung infections you would quit.

I know this a small thing nothing to do with big picture but I'm totally pissed by it and if he comes back he will quit or he won't come back--he always does this when he is not with me--it goes with the whole thing about not giving a crap about life I guess I don't know.

I was mellow almost until I found that in the garbage--it has truly sent me over the edge--if I talked to him I would so much yell at him.

I'm so mad--angry that he bnroke is promise of staying and I have been cheated out of another child and a happy marriage he has taken and ataken and given nothing-- <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

Are you sensing my anger??? I have had it--does he not give a s@?t??? At least keep your health in mind for your son's sake if nothing else--you would think someone who at the age of 24 had a brain tumor and had it removed succesfully and it was benign would value life a little more.

Okay gotta go and collect myself because the more I write the more pissed I become and the hatred is rising above boiling.

KT~~Now what?? You said I did great this morning--do I need to sit back be busy and as AD says enable him to chase me--those things he said tonight after this morning and SF are really getting to me. It makes PA so hard and then that makes it harder to not chase him and to get him to chase me.

You think he will tell them or move???? HELP--I'm desperate and week and just so upset--and why put myself through this if it upsets me--because I seen a ray of hope or is it self torture--actually I think that it is only the success stories I have read that give me faith to hang in here.

Albany - I just typed out this nice long reply to you and lost it. Let me try to remember what I said.

Basically, I think you need to get your anger under control. I am worried because your anger does nothing but cause yourself more stress and heartache. You do not need more of that.

As for H comments, it is hard not to dwell on them. I read somewhere that you can only believe like 30% of what they say at this point. Our H are hurt and confused just like us - even though they brought it on themselves. I think this accounts for alot of the stupid things they say. Don't take them all to heart - focus on the good and work from there. I know my H is just having a hard time accepting what he has done. I think that is part of the reason he went to US today - a reality check. The problem is OW is there also. You can't help but bond over the first sight of your child. That's what makes me so mad, and I don't think H quite understands.

Focus on yourself. Get your anger under control. Be the best you possible and your H won't be able to resist. H's don't want this constantly thrown in their faces - even if they deserve it. When you feel yourself getting angry to the point you can't control it - say a little prayer. We all know that God is the one we can trust right know. I trust God more than I trust myself because if I do things my way, I screw it up.

Hang in there - you can do this.

I don't know what to say to either one of you.

My H has responded like both of your H @ different times so I don't know whether it is a man thing or a WH thing.

Many a time my H has seemed mean or distant after SF, leaving me feeling used. I would call him on it and eventually, once we learned to actually communicate, it wasn't about me, it was usually something up w/ him (work or some other manly stress) and he would apologize.

And Krism, My H used to say the EXACT same thing, that he just KNEW I couldn't handle it and i'd be like you, you're right! Not by myself.

The difference is my H was living @ home all the time.

I was/am very confrontational. Not always a good thing. I think you both have every right to confront your H on their behavior but I think you have to be self controlled enough not to lose it(ie: non-confrontational). Stay focused only on how YOU feel and not accusatory. In other words don't accuse your H of doing something or try to assume his motives. You can express your disappointment, your feelings but don't assume H feelings.

Stay calm and rational. Don't assume anything about your H. We really don't know WHAT they are thinking right now. Don't try to read their minds or look for subtle innuendos, ulterior motives or anything.

Kris you can tell your H you were sad/bothered that he went to US but glad that he told you and did not keep it a secret, even if you did not agree w/ it. Then LISTEN to him. He may open up & admit to you about how lost & confused he really is. You don't know.

Albany, your stress level is like mine, calm down, take a deep breathe. Tell H how much you enjoyed your morning and how sad you would be if it truly was over between you two and how much you would miss those times w/ him. Whatever, be calm, LISTEN to him and let him talk. Don't try to pry into his "feelings", he is confused, he probably doesn't even know what his "feelings" are either.

Both of you, take a deep breathe and get some rest. Pray to God and give it to Him, all of this is out of your hands. Albany, I think you have said how control freaky you can be, so, let me remind you that you are slipping into old habits again, step back and regain the progress you are making by controlling yourself again and letting the rest (& stress) gooooooooooooooo.

God Bless.

KT~you are right but I don't think that he will call me at all while he is gone--but I need to make him chase--I fall off the wagon to easily with a few kind words from him. I tell him everyday that I love him and I care ant want it to work--it doesn't seem to matter--in fact less I talk about sometimes the better.

I talked to him before I talked to his mom by a 10-15 minutes and he was better than before and I said I cared and then as I already said when I talked to his mom she said he hadn't said a thing though 2 hours before he said he had--why does he say that to me and why not tell them if you are done.

I'm so scared to lose him--in most ways I'm not dependent on anyone but emotionally I'm very dependent on him I guess and I need him so much that way.

I guess it is frustrating because I usually don't make threats and that what he does and never follows through--I love him KT and I want this to work and a year is a long time (since we first started with this). Can you wave your wand and make it better--I want it fixed and I have no patience right now and I think that is because my love tank is nearly empyt and every time he deposits into it he takes it back out--was SF a good thing to leave him with--probably yes but it seems to not mean much I guess--I really thought I saw love and a desire for me in his eyes when he said can you call in and go in half hour late--he just seemed like he wanted to spend time together.

Keep the thoughts coming KT--IS their a married end in sight after all of this??

AD~hope you feel better haven't heard from you

Everyone I say a prayer for you tonight and I hop that you will all say an extra for me tonight and mainly for my H to pull his head out of his ---. Do they not know how lucky they are to have someone love them so deeply to go through this situation???

Here's my encouragement:

After A ended, H & I lost everything. We were fiancially bankrupt, had to live w/ friends, H lost his job, I had to go back to work to even survive, working part-time for the holidays. We had nothing AND H was treating me like total crap! That was the worst Christmas of my life! <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

I had no idea @ this time that there had been an A & pg. I had no idea what the problem was and I was soooo frustrated and perplexed as to WHY this was all happening. And to think H CHOSE to end A & stay in our marriage but was neglecting and totally mistreating me???? Didn't look like someone who wanted to be there. I still don't know what kept him from going back to OW during that time because he sure didn't act like he wanted or loved me.

Then he was forced to tell me and I lost it big time. I was outta there! Glad to have a justifiable reason to call it quits and end the misery.

Now, things are obviously and completely different. H can't explain his behavior back then but he is consistent that he KNEW he wanted to be married to ME & ONLY me. Says that is all he ever wanted. So why so much of the opposite unloving behavior?

I can try to analyze it. Maybe he was so overcome w/ the guilt and secrecy he had to be distant from me to avoid facing the truth, maybe he was hoping I would leave so he could be "punished" for his unforgiveable sin. Our outside turmoil was an accurate reflection of H inner turmoil. Who knows?

But knowing how it was way back then to how it is now, whew! SOOOOOOO glad I hung in there.

I think, that you think I am madly, truly, deeply in love w/ my H right? & I am. But 7 years ago? how could I know that I would be here now? I never would have believed it myself. And if you knew & saw us then you would not believe it either.

It's all a process & H & I have had many other honesty & trust issues to deal w/ too. One step @ a time but each step builds another part of the foundation that takes you to the next step.

You can't fix this, you can't change this. I have been there, begging God to change it, fix it, turn back time. I KNOW God can do all those things but that was not His plan for me.

sorry to end so abruptly, gotta take care of sick baby. Hang in there and don't lose hope, is my long winded point.

KT~I will try not to lose hope but it seems so done in some respects with him saying he is done.

I wish I could talk to his Mom more today and find a bit more--she really couldn't say much last night because their were some ears around.
For some reason she gives me great comfort and her and my one friend have been right every time about him not saying anything to anyone else even though he says he has.

I guess though I'm starting to hate him right now and my love is mixed and yet at the same time I so much want him to reach out and grab me and tell me he loves me and is coming home--that is me dream and it makes me teary just writing it.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Do they not know how lucky they are to have someone love them so deeply to go through this situation??? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Albany they don't see it too much fog, guilt, shame, who knows - it is so frustrating.

Albany & Kris I am so sorry that things look so bleak right now, KT gave you some hope w/ her story, we have to remember that this in not an overnite process, just like our H's didn't wake up one day & decide "I think I will start an A w/ another woman & tear my M & family apart by getting her pg. too", lots of months or years led up to them making that decision. (Not that I am excusing their behavior in any way).So there is no quick fix for us to go back to our life "pre A".

KT shows us that there is hope, we all know though that some of us may not have happy endings here & I think we are all strong enough to deal with that if it happens, but until we know beyond the shadow of a doubt that it is over, done, finished I say STAND, do all that you can do, but know there is a point where you have to let God have it & say "let your will be done Lord" & let it go. Easier said then done I know.

Hang in there ladies.

KT,

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Many a time my H has seemed mean or distant after SF, leaving me feeling used. I would call him on it and eventually, once we learned to actually communicate, it wasn't about me, it was usually something up w/ him (work or some other manly stress) and he would apologize.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I have experienced this w/ H for quite sometime now, I have told him I felt used & he has not apologized, but always says I shouldn't feel that way. He actually did it yesterday & today. Mon. & Tues. he was hot & heavy w/ the text messaging, once we had SF on Tues. nite, he was cold & distant again yesterday morning, against my better judgement I text mess. him yesterday morning said some mushy stuff about us & said I love you, totally no 180 stuff, only to get no response, sent another mess. 2 hrs. later asking if he was busy, he said he was. I sent another mess. in the evening asking if he was still busy, he said yes still busy. When he came home he didn't want to talk about his day or the messages, pretty dry this morning too & no mess. from him. So I feel used & only good for one thing to him. At least if he would apologize for it, I'd feel a little better but he won't, pretty much blows it off, like I shouldn't make a big deal about it.

It just makes me wanna scream!

I know I had day's where I HATED him and the way he was acting, but other days I would just look at him and know that I LOVED and cherished him, no matter what. On the good days would think about the great times we are going to have, on the bad, just think back and try to fine the reasons why I loved him so much. I still do that. We are all going to have our bad days. I sure they think of the hurt they caused and thats when they get down, we read it as not wanting to be w/ us, but maybe they just want to know "I'm hear for you" and I love you!. Because when you are down they may read "get away from me" and all you want them to do is hold you! Our WS are human and they too have a hard time w/ everything they caused! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> They think Why does she/he want me hear? I don't deserve this kind of love, and we need to show them they are and thats why we are here. I don't know, just something to ponder.
Sunny <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

KrisM. Big hug for you.

I am right there in those exact same shoes as you. My H wants to be at the delivery. Makes me wonder if he went to US. Anyway, if you read my other post about my Ltr to H, you will see how our talk went last night. My H flat out refuses to listen or care about my feelings. I feel so much like you do.

Sorry I dn't have more to offer. Just know that I feel your pain.
My prayers are with you and everyone else here.

Morning albany~

Something came to mind, and I don't think I've thought of this before. Could your H be in a state of depression? His ups and downs, back and forths tend to indicate such. It could be why he seemingly turned into a totally different man in the afternoon, from the man you had SF with in the AM. Even if the SF didn't hold the same meaning for him as you--still it's awfully odd behavior. His smoking habit seems like a back and forth thing too, according to how things are going in his life. It's something to consider, and something I would encourage him to have checked. Another thing to consider is his eating habits. Does he eat a lot of junk and processed foods, or good quality, well balanced meals? I know he gets awesome food when he's with you, but what about when he's alone?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I tell him everyday that I love him and I care ant want it to work--it doesn't seem to matter--in fact less I talk about sometimes the better.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Precisely!!!!!!!!!! It is better the less you talk--the less you talk about the status of the relationship anyway. You're not even supposed to be reminding him you love him. That's one of the 180's. Albany, he knows you love him, you don't have to keep telling him. Just show it, by consistent Plan A behavior, ok?

Last thought for now--Plan B????????

Oh, and I'm feeling a little better, not 100%, but not so bad either. Thank goodness, because I've been having to be outside doing plantings for an event we're hosting here this weekend for D and friends. If it rains, I'm gonna scream, cuz then the happenings will be inside, and all of yesterday's yardwork will be for naught. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> Just my luck, yard will look spectacular, and the house will look less than spectacular, (I suppose I should clean just in case)! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Take good care of yourself.

~ad

He already takes Lexapro for depression and I think that is a lot of it and also what Sunnydale plays a part to--to much guilt to face it and make it work in December he just kept saying how he was bad and I would be better off without him etc.

Smoking thing I feel goes with his stress and depression.

I know I shouldn't tell him I love him--it is so hard not too--and I need to get back up on the wagon and not fall off.

What do you think of him telling me he told his parents yesterday and then later his mom says he has told them nothing?

Okay girls~

I want you to know that I'm tired of feeling alone I just want to be held told I Love You--don't I and WS's deserve that after everything??

I also want you to know when H and I were living together and he told me we would get through OW & OC together I rarely threw anything in his face--it has only been since he left. Him leaving actually made the worst come out in me.

I guess somedays it is just so hard to give and do PA and even 180 things because I much want reach out and have him reach back--it is like I'm just totally starved for his love--and it hurts like heck to have them say I love you but don't want to be married and you didn't do anything wrong--I know we both cause the demise of the marraige but I didn't choose A and OC.

Probably just rambling but it is hard to stay up when the one person you so much want to say I Love You and want to be with you doesn't.

Albany,

I know exactly how you feel, I have H in the house w/ me & it is like pulling teeth to hear an "I love you" or just be held, unless he is looking for SF.

I know I should not have said ILY yesterday, not part of the 180's, I didn't hear it back, instead got - "you have a funny way of showing it."

I don't know what else he wants from, I have bent so far back in all this I feel lik gumby, & what do I get in return? I asked KT yesterday if she thought it was crazy of me to just pursue working on our M & putting OW & OC (only child) issues on the back burner, but I don't know what I am doing anymore, I can't really do 180's if I am trying to show him that I want this to be all about us finding US again. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

The fact that he LIED to you & said he told his parents when he didn't, I don't know what to make of that, could it mean he is trying to get you to move on, but doesn't want to let his parents know about OW & OC???

Well if he is telling me that because he wants me to go then maybe he shouldn't be coming around all the time and having actions that do not match his words--like why not take son all day last Friday but pick him up from daycare and then buy dinner food and prepare it for us. His response was he wanted to see our son--then you should have taken him all day since you weren't at work and made dinner for you two at your apt.

Can't H tell them without telling about OC--then knew about OW women last summer?

I know I have been doing too much I love you and need to refocus on 180--I have the hardest time not telling him I love him--but the less I do the more he comes around.

Also if you are done then why call me on you way home from graveyard just to tell me something we alrready discussed and tell me all about your night at work???

Albany,

I think BG may have something. </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> The fact that he LIED to you & said he told his parents when he didn't, I don't know what to make of that, could it mean he is trying to get you to move on, but doesn't want to let his parents know about OW & OC??? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Maybe not to get you to move on but too ashamed to admit what he did. This way if you decide to move on he won't look like the bad guy in their eyes. It will look like he did what he was supposed to but you could still not deal with the A.

My H did not tell his parents until April, after another big blow-up we had about him going to the hospital to be by her side during pre-term contractions. Prior to him telling them, we had an argument about OW and he spoke to his father and was like "she is never going to let it go, etc." To this father I am sure I looked like the difficult one but he did not know the whole story.

Does not really matter now, as his father sides with him on this. His father had a long standig A too. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

It was just a guess Albany, I dare not presume to know the mind of a WH, it is a dark place I am sure.

You are right his actions do not match his words, same thing w/ my H just in a different manner.

I have always thought that he doesn't want a D or to go NC w/ you but he doesn't want to commit either, classic fence sitting, and as usual it is up to US to put a stop to it at some point.

I know you are only throwing out thoughts--just rebutting them with my thoughts--Yes, I think that he is ashamed--wouldn't you be if in 1991 or early 1992 when you had a ONS in high school and the girl who is the school tramp is gets pregnant and the possibilities of the who Father is are spread between a few and the DNA proves it is you and her family wants nothing do with you and so you agree to let parents adopt baby and you give away rights. So you see secound A during our M and now second unplanned or wanted child by H.

You would think that you would learn to protect yourself--I think that everyday he probably thinks he is a complete dumb*** for not learning the first time that the only way to guarantee is to protect you and not trust them.

Hey girls--off to lunch be back in an hour or less. Digest that my last post and I think you would agree that he is ashamed and finds it easier to walk then to stay and face it.

albany,

Your OW and mine are due around the same time. Mine is due 6/9/04. Can you belive my b-day is the 13th, ain't that grand? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> Just does not get much worse than that, does it? Well, at least OC and I will both be crazy <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

LMF~that bites--my B-Day and Annv. are in fall.

How do like the other tid bit I told you guys???

Should have known <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> back then--actually the first time I met H in college he told me about the child a son. He was very honest and after a few months of dating I went with him when he signed away rights--I think that I even signed as a witness.

Another bit--that child was boy, we have a son, and he was told that this one is a boy.

Hey Girls,

Been busy at work today, but I have been reading and must say that I am sorry for all of your pain. I too feel used sometimes after SF with H. He seldomley responds to anything said nor does he say anything.

You must keep your head up because if he did not have any feelings for you he would not be coming back for more of you. He is just so confused right now and so are you.

You must know that you are the one that he has been coming to. So keep your head up!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Oh girls,

I forgot today is my birthday - so I'll give you the details of what will happen later.

H did call me to wish me happy birthday and said he has a surprise for me later!! So we shall see.

Please pray that I don't LB tonight I can already think of three big ones.

Bye,


JT

Fill us in later

HAPPY BIRTHDAY JT2

JT,

It is so hard NOT to feel that way, if H is not getting it from OW anymore, why not just GET IT from me???? I have told him I feel like I am just a hole for him to you know what in, I was LBing big time that day.

Have not heard from him at all today, don't expect to, not going to text him either. As KT said maybe this will pass in yrs. to come, can I continue to wait is the question.

How r u today?

AD - glad to see you are feeling better - missed u!

JT - HAPPY BIRTHDAY!!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Don't LB, just enjoy your day & let H pamper you, forget all the crap, It is your day!!!

Thanks girls,

I gotta go going to dinner, but I am thinking of you all and it means so much to me to be able to share my birthday with my new friends. I can hardly make it through a day without talking to you all.

BG - don't worry be happy!! H will come around - I think I remember someone saying don't chase him let him chase you!!

Love Ya Girls,

JT <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

JT2~

AD is the one for credit on let them chase you.

I always have a hard time doing that when he has left if as he did yesterday etc.--I get too sad and have a hard time--maybe I get too needy but I have to pull through it. I hope his Mom calls and I hope this all workd out--my love for H is so strong and I just with he would recipricate.

As AD says though he knows my love for him is so deep and that may be allowing all this fence sitting.

H called about something coming to our house for his work asked I would make sure to get it.

He seemed fine--I think you guys are all right--I just have to ignore him and go about my business--and as my friend points out the only time he says he is done or acts done is if he feels threatened or backed into a corner.

I tried his mom and we talked for a few seconds and then she had to go because she was trying to drive and had a cop behind her and two grandkids and H's brother with her--they had just left the airport in Boise.

Tomorrow evening I'm going to dinner with a girlfriend from work and then we are going to see Troy <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> That might be more yummy then dinner and drinks <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

Love to here from you guys and I will be on later.

Hey girls - you had a busy day.

I just wanted to update you a little. I am going to have a stepdaughter. Isn't that grand!!

H and I actually had a good talk tonight and everything was laid back. He said there was no hand holding or closeness at US - he basically stood back in shadows and watched. OW's sister was there also. He said they talked a little - mainly small talk about work. Says OW is keeping her distance (until he is a free man) - too bad she didn't do that 6 months ago!! I didn't get angry at all - I just let H talk and wanted to see his reaction to everything. I calmly explained to him that my main concern was being with OW and him decided things without considering my feelings. If we are going to survive this we have to work together. I understood why he wanted to be there, but he needed to understand why he shouldn't be there. I think he is still confused about the whole thing, but I am still hopeful for us. He asked if I had any questions. I just asked if everyone was healthy and what the due date is - 9/26.

I did ask if OW's new boyfriend was there (in a non LB way). I don't think that H liked that too well - we both know that she is just trying to manipulate him into leaving M. I asked why he would want to be with someone like that - got the typical I don't know. We talked some about how she used one of his friends to get this whole A started. H says she did it to see how he reacted and to see where things led. He said he thinks that she does have feelings for him. I said that I wouldn't call it love if she was encouraging him to break up M and hurt BC (non LB way). I said if she really loved him she would never have hurt him and family like this. Says another friend has pointed that out to him also. He was willing to talk about it - so I gave him my honest opinions. It was a very relaxed, nice conversation.

I of course had to do a little bit of flirting. Told him he should take me out on a date Sat. He asked why - I said because you love me. He just laughed and rolled his eyes. Says he doesn't understand why I am still around and want to be with him.

H says he still thinks of a life with OW at times. Says he thinks of coming home too. He is just not sure how everyone will handle OC issue. That is something we will face together. I really think he is slowly coming around. I asked if he was planning on being at delivery - he said only if he was not living at home at time. I said I had a few months to convince him this is where he belongs.

Overall, not a bad evening. I wasn't really sure how I would handle the whole US thing. I had alot of time to think at work today. I just basically concluded there was a reason he had to be there. I can't control what he does, so I am not going to let myself get overly emotional about it. God works in mysterious ways - this was all part of his plan. Strangely, I felt very close to H tonight.

Just wanted to share a quick devotion I read on my email.

**************************************************
Waiting for the Lord

May 20, 2004

"My soul faints with longing for your salvation, but I have put my hope in your word."

- Psalm 119:81

Patience in trouble is excruciating. It just is. The Psalmist gives poetic voice ... "my soul faints with longing" ... to a life experience that is just hard and agonizing and bad and ugly. "To endure" sometimes seems beyond endurance.

But that is the time when faith is born. That is the time when we are refined, as Scripture says, like precious metal being purified in the crucible. The challenge to remain faithful strengthens faith ... if we don't lose hope. "What Scripture says" is a saving grace in these times. Scripture reminds us of God's love and of God's faithfulness to us.

God's Word is about God keeping God's word ... to love us inspite of ourselves, to forgive us completely, to love us unconditionally. This is how the Word can sustain us and "feed us", at times when we are starving, when things are beyond enduring. With faith and hope, salvation is assured. "Thus sayeth the Lord."

**************************************************

Good job Krism! Keep up the good work, relaxed attitude & of course the flirting.

Yah, it's painful that OC are around birthday's & such. My b-day was hard this year since it was around that time OW got pg & yet H was buying me a new diamond ring declaring his LOVE for me @ the same time!!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> whatever! Soooooo glad I'm past that! PTL!!!!!!! Mother's Day was very, very nice.

Albany, even B4 you mentioned the other boy your H gave up, I was thinking, OW is due just next month. H has to @ least starting to feel anxious. Realistically, it could be any day now. I'd be so agitated in a nervous way.

jt2, happy happy birthday. It's my brother's b-day today too. He's paintballing right now. NOW that would be a good stress reliever or a way to get all that rage/anger/frustration out for you ladies! hanh? what do you think about that? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Have a good night.

Just relax.

KrisM~

So happy for you--I was once where you were--H and I had pleasant conversations and all that and he did a ton of I don't why you are staying and then I kept pushing on him in January and telling him we to decided some things and tell my parent because this OW (girl) was the new stepdaughter of one of my Dad's boss's and ex-boss of my H and I was really concerned about my Dad finding out not from us and I just sent him packing with all of my pushing and over-demanding behaviour.

So my point is good to not LB and good to listen--I didn't listen well and that was bad.

So you see guys, I really blame myself for him leaving the second time--I thought I had him after him saying he would never leave us even though she was pregnant--so don't push to hard to because they tend to take flight and not fight when it gets to be too much.

Proud of you KrisM.

Have you ever noticed that we all do not have good days at the same time--I wish I could wave the magic wand and make better for all of us.

I will also tell you that I learned so much since January and I owe it to this site but I fear that it is too late and that I really should move on and have lost my H--I know he hasn't told parents or anything but I feel I have lost him and the connection and warmth we had yesterday morning before and right after SF was what we use to have and I hadn't seen it since early January and don't think I will be seeing it again--I'm caving and just can't keep going.

Also KrisM, don't get me wrong don't be a door mat but let him talk and kind of lead the conversations.

Let me say thanks for allowing me to join in. It's taking me a little while to get up to speed with everyone.

JT2 - Happy Birthday. I hope your evening went well.

KimM- It sounds like you conversation went very well with you H. I hope that slowly he comes around.

Albany- I really did not think anything negative about you H's younger years. I figure, unfort. these things happen when we are young. I do however, think it's interesting that he found himself in the same sit. later in life. The big difference is that when you are young and you walk away, people kind of accept it. However, as an adult you are expected to me more responsible and the stakes are much higher as he has a wife and son. He really needs to be responsible to his family, as they all do. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

KT-you inspire me so much. I think you sit. and how you handle it is amazing.

H and I hardly spoke again last night. He was out working on his Jeep till about midnight. I am a little numb over everything. I have meetings today at work and I hope that takes my mind off all of this for awhile. Then it's the weekend and H is going to see his family in another state. I will be alone with the kids and I am so looking forward to it. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Too bad the weather is going to stink. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Hey guys I won't get chance to post until this afternoon PST. I have a first aid/CPR class at my work and won't be back at my desk until around 2:00pm.

I just keep assuming that since I haven't heard from his mom that nothing has changed and he hasn't told them yet. As you his mom thinks and my friend thinks he wasn't going to, but we have today left with him over there at his parents and tomorrow--his flight leave tomorrow at 4:30pm.

Really scared you guys and truly hope he doesn't tell them--can't wait to call his Mom tomorrow after he is gone so that I know what has been said.

What is everyone's thought's for how I should handle him tomorrow when he comes home with our son--should I make dinner for them or just send H promptly on his way if he is done and all that??? Maybe it depends on what I find out from his Mom.

Hi all,

I had a really good time last night. Birthday was great went out with a girlfriend to dinner. We had a blast. Picked up kids and went home. H called several times that evening to say hey birthday girl! Wonder what's up with that. H came home with dinner for the kids - I told him i had gone out with the girls.

H was glad to come in with the food and gifts. H gave our son the gift from the kids to give to me. He then had a beautiful card for me. I got a tiffany bracelet from the kids and a pair of shoes from him.

Can you beleive that. I still find myself on the defensive though. I remember I got an excellent gift last year for my birthday and he was only a month into his affair so what does that really say about our relationship?

I feel that I am only getting nowhere with him. Why should I be the one to have to suffer? Is he really sorry. He called me this morning all excited about the time he spent with son last night. H misses him and he sees him growing up without him or right in front of him and he's missing that. All Of IT!!

I want to tell him that I can not go on like this anymore. I was thinking about letting my attorney send him a letter of intent to see what he does then. If he does what I expect then we need to move on.

I think he is to confused. I don't know what he is?

Hey everyone !!!! I had to catch up. Whew, ya'll do alot of writing at night. I don't have time to get on at night. I think about everyone here everyday. And pray for you all. Everyhting is quiet in my neck of woods, it feels so good to have quiet. Planning a great weekend for Memorial day. About 11 kids and 8 adults, where am i going to put all of these people? All but 3 are teenages and they want to camp out, yea, sure. My H freaks when the teens come, he so funny. We got to watch them ect, I guess he remembers what he did. LOL I hope everyone has a good weekend and god be w/ each of you.
As KT saids "fake it til you make it"
Sunny <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

Nothing new here. H's mom hasn't called me and she promised she would if he said he was done to them. SO I told her if I didn't hear from her I would take that as a good sign.

LMF~the dance of intimacy is exactly what happens between my H and I. I pull away, do my own thing, do not call, etc.--then he reaches out and grabs for me but the minute I respond to easily and he feels he has me back then he pushes himself away and then I try to pull him.

I have decided this time I have to stay away bit and stay on the wagon so he has to keep chasing me.

Off to the movies tonight with a girlfriend and I don't about answering phone call from H if he calls late tonight.

Hope you all have good nights--talk to you all tomorrow.

Let me know what you think about H making OC child mistake again--years later.

Albany - I hope you have fun and enjoy yourself with your girlfriends. Best of luck when H returns tomorrow.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">What is everyone's thought's for how I should handle him tomorrow when he comes home with our son--should I make dinner for them or just send H promptly on his way if he is done and all that??? Maybe it depends on what I find out from his Mom </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Do whatever comes naturally (except anger). If you want to have dinner ready for him - go for it. But if he decides not to stay, be careful not to get angry. Just act like it is no big deal. Don't ask if he told parents. Just let him bring it up if he wants to talk about it - don't force the issue. Be the best you, you can be - no angry outbursts, etc. Have fun with your son.

What exactly does his parents know? Do they know about OW and not OC? Or do they not even know about OW? Sorry I forget. If they don't know, why not tell them? Sounds like you and his mom get along well - she could be a good source of help to you. Even if the A is over, exposure of it will help your H face what he has done. He can't hide from it. If people know, then he would be forced to deal with it.

Good Luck to you.

The movie was excellent and I had a great time.

KrisM~His parents know all of it because I told them. Maybe not my place but his mom was very supportive of me when H and I were not living together and he was with this girl(yes, girl 20 at the time)so I panicked when I found out she was pregnant and I told his parents looking for advice. THey have known but I made them promise to say anything--I wanted him to tell them on his own.

Last night was awful. He called me after the movie and I didn't answer--I finally did and he was out with his sister and her boyfriend and I could tell thay had been drinking and it pissed me off so I got angyr and LBed. I know this was very wrong. I asked him if he was out whoring around--well that was the start of it and he told me it didn't matter if he was that he was done and I asked if he told his family and he said yes. He then preceded to tell me I was a B*&#? and that at least he wasn't hiding it like I was and just kept going. I have lost all respect for his sister--I could hear her telling him to hang up and then I asked him why he was being like this and he says because that is the only thing I understand. I told him I didn't have the affair and another child so look at himself and he sai well if I had been getting what I wanted at home I wouldn't gone looking elsewhere and then you could hear them laughing and joking about his comment in the background.

At that point I just hung up the phone--I don't have to take that. Yes, H and I were having bedroom issue--I had a horrible delivery and a ton of scar tissue and a bladder that had drop because the muscles got whacked from all the pushing. I tried to explain these things but he didn't get it and I guess he took it all personally and I was sleeping on the couch because he was such a bed hog and snoring so bad. He probably felt rejected but it was not him--it was me and I tried to tell him that. I also was very insecure of my body and weight. Before I was pregnant I weighed 115 and at the end of my pregnancy I weighed about 149. Right after having our son I got down to 135 but man I couldn't get the rest to come off and my poor little stomach was so stretched out--so I didn't even want him to see me naked.

So after the phone call at 11:45 I tried to go to sleep and at about 3:30am the phone rings at my house and I looked and it was him--after him calling two times I finally answered on the third phone call. Still don't know why he called he was fairly nice and asked how the movie was. I said how did you know that I went to a movie and he said when he couldn't get a hold of me last night he called my parents and my Dad said I had gone to the movies. You see he couldn't stand not knowing what I was doing. I told him I love you but how you treated me on the phone was horrible in front of your sister and that he was not the same person who left on Wednesday morning nor was he the individual from Wednesday that actuelly seemed happy to see me and cared. He asked me who I went with and why I hadn't answered the phone when he just called and I said it didn't matter and I wasn't going to explain myself. He then said so you had a date how was it?? I said if I had a date would be sitting here telling you I love you and care but what did earlier is not okay. That shut him up.

We then got off the phone. I talked to him around 11:00am today and he was an [censored]--wouldn't talk to me told me he didn't miss me, didn't love me and was going to start the divorce papers and probably move over there. I said you are running and that's fine I said I just want to know where the person from Wednesday went. He hung up on me and when I tried to call him back he was an [censored] and hung on me several times and told me to get the hint he didn't care about me. I left it at that.

I just talked to his Mom and told all about last night--she was not impressed and she said he hasn't told her or his Dad and he hasn't said anything about moving to there.

I talked to H and they were boarding the plane before I got online to here. I said I would make dinner and I asked if he was staying and he said he didn't know and then he said don't count on it. That's fine.

I have written him a letter and it basically says I have done what I can and shown my love and I have shown you that I would stand beside you in this situation and I explained to him how I truly believed him and trusted him in Dec. 2003 when I was laying on the couch one night before x-mas a few days and crying and he said to me crying he was sorry and that he would never leave me or my son and we would get through this together. I looked deep into eyes you guys and it was real--just don't know what changed.

I told him that I had signed the D papers before and it was he who hadn't and couldn't bring himself to. I told him that I never forced him to move back when he did and that I was letting him go because my love was so great for him that I'm setting him free and if it is meant to be he will come back but I've done what I could that I had forgiven him on that night in Dec. and what I have forgiven him for his not sticking to that and lying to me that night.

I honestly forgave him that night and made up my mind that we would stand together on this in C or NC with child. I have never felt so betrayed though until he lied to me that night--he moved home and gave me a glimpse of what we could have and then he took it away because he is too weak to stand up and face this--I have not forgiven him for that.

He left all his work clothes and keys at our house and I have washed them and I have them in sack waiting for him and in that sack I will put the 4 page letter for him. Basically I plan to get our son's stuff from him and then give him the bag and send him on his way--I need a lot of space from him right now--I need to save what love I have for him right now--he really damaged that last night and I don't know if I can even look at him tonight--I see a monster right now.

I think that tomorrow I may tell my parents a bit about what is going on.

This isn't what I want but I can't go on like this and he is just hurting me--I really fell very used after Wednesday and SF--i fell cheap and I feel that he has no respect for me.

I talked to his mom a little earlier and he has not told them anything--maybe I already said that but anyway I need space and time to heal, cool off, and time for the love to heal.

Doesn't care about me but calls my parents to find out where I'M at--yah right--why can't they just admit it???

Albany - So sorry H hurt you yet again. He has no right to talk to you that way. I think our Hs are too proud to admit their mistakes and take responsibility for them. That would be alot of hard work to rebuild what they have destroyed by their selfish behavior. Its easier to walk away.

I think it might be time for Plan b. You have been hurt enough. If this continues, you will lose all love for your H. The letter you are giving him, is it a plan B letter? Have you made arrangements for your child so you don't have to have C w/ H? Its time to make these arrangements and step back from all this. You cannot continue to let this man abuse you like this - and that is exactly what it is. You deserve better!! Until he is willing to be the man to give you what you deserve - it is time to step away.

I will keep praying that you find the peace you deserve in life. It is just not happening with your H right now. Live life for you and BC. Hopefully, H will come to senses when he sees you will survive just fine without him.

Good luck to you.

Hey girls - Hope you had a good weekend.

I spent Sat. w/ H and it was wonderful. My DS had a baseball game and then the grandparents took the kids for all night. I then went to watch H at softball tournament. I keep trying to be supportive of his interests - kind of hard at times when I think these interests take him away from family too much - but I am trying. Anyway, after the tournament was over, we went back to his apartment. We rented a movie and had dinner. One thing led to another, and wow what a night. I have not felt that close to H in a long time and it was great!! Makes me wonder what is keeping him away.

However, I called him today. Seemed distant again. It is just so confusing. Every time I think we are growing closer, he steps back. I guess we will see what tomorrow brings.

Something else happened today that was interesting. One of H coworkers stopped by the house asking if he could get ride from H one night this week. I told him I would relay the message and he started to leave. I waved him down as he was leaving and told him H and I were separated and that maybe he should call H's cell. Turns out that he was recently divorced. We talked alot about what he went through with XW and he told me to work it out if at all possible. It was just amazing everything we had in common other than A's of spouses. He was very kind and told me if I ever needed to talk to let him know. He even recommended Harley's books - unfortunately didn't work for him. After he left, I just kept thinking I wish H could be more like him. He goes to Church, his kids are a priority, he is just a really great guy (figured that out in less then 1/2 hour). Then I stepped back and thought I really understand how A's can start. I felt such a connection to him. I can see where innocent things can lead to so much more. It takes a really strong person to resist the temptations that lead to A's.

I am rambling. Not sure if I have a point - maybe just that I can understand how it could happen.

Talk to you all later.

albany~

Listen to what Kris says. If the letter you wrote him isn't a Plan B letter, you are asking for more of the same treatment. I don't know what all you included in the letter, but from the sounds of it, it's not a PBL. First of all, 4 pages is waaaaaaaaay too long. It needs to be concise and to the point. After the first paragraph or two, (if he even reads anymore than that), it will read like, "wah, wah, wah...". Plus there are certain things a Plan B letter must contain. I believe it should fit on one page, too. We can help you with the outline.

You didn't say you have a Plan B plan in place so I'm guessing you're not really going to Plan B. Remember, you have to have a plan and a third party for him to contact, such as your folks. Plan B is serious stuff, albany. It's NC, NC, NC!!!! If you're not serious about "sending him packing", DON'T DO IT till you ARE ready! Anything short of a true Plan B won't serve a purpose other then continuing the cycle the two of you have been in.

You need to tell your parents what's going on... NOW. You need a support system.

Call his bluff, albany, and do a REAL Plan B. It's time.

By the way...I think his sister is disgusting. I'm giving her a slight benefit of the doubt by guessing she was drunk out of her mind.

Take good care.

~ad

Oh Albany,

I have to agree with Kris & AD, it is time to Plan B, of course only you know if your are ready, but how long will you allow him to put you thru these changes??????

First of all I see no reason whatsoever for him to call you late at nite - drunk why?? Only to see if you'd answer & to then piss you off & make fun of you. You should not allow him to treat you this way any longer.

Maybe this will be his wake up call & you are the only one who can give it to him.

Be strong.

Hey Girls,

Well it looks like the weekend has been a busy time for all of you.

Albany, please make sure that you are ready to make the move to plan b. It sounds like you are to emotionally involved right now. You should probably take a few days to think about it. I personally think you maybe a little to needy right now for his approval and desire to be his wife. Not to sound harsh, but you need to probably focus on you and not so much him. He is pushing away because you are expecting too much from him right now.

Not that I am an ecpert nor am I guilt free of all of this but I think this might pertain to you as well. Let him do whatever and you do the same . Focus on you and the kids right now. Let him do his own thing.

Think about it technically no matter how much you complain he is doing his own thing right now and you have no control over it. So let him continue you just don't need to play such a big role in it.

You need to step back for your sanity.

Actually everything I am telling you is what I have come to the conclusion in doing myself - Today!!

I am living for me from now on he can do what he wants. I am not going to ask him to come over, spend anytime with me, nothing. i feel like I need to be free and I am seeing that might entail being without him. Suppose we are just not meant to be. this is a thought!!

Hold your head up and move on and see for sure if he wants to be on board - if he does he'll jump on before the ship leaves the port if not you'll know for sure.

I'm going to try it I have no other choice - maybe you should to.

Remember this is just a thought.

JT

<small>[ May 24, 2004, 12:23 PM: Message edited by: JT2 ]</small>

Albany & BBG93 (((((((((((HUGS))))))))))))))
to both of you sorry things aren't working very good right now. Like everyone else has said make sure you are ready. Its going to hard not to contact the one you love so much. Please sit back and pray about everything before you do it. And do make the letter short to the point and cut it. You don't want to seem too needey and make him feel sorry for you. I fact he should feel sorry for himself. He is about to lose the BEST thing that will ever happen to him!!! Some men. Also be open when they might want to come back. Trust me I tried the N/C and it drove him crazy. I would have someone at my home when he p/u daughter and didn't want to see him. I would have 40-100 calls, cell, home, office, god I thought I was going crazy !! He drove by the house. I would park the car in the garage and he didn't know if I was home or not. Kept the lights down and just sat back. Yes I missed him, Yes I cried, Yes I hurt. you need to get your support from your family, and close friends. Be careful about family, don't put him and say you'll never get back w/ him. My family freaked when I let H come back home and our relationship is forever changed. I wish you both luck and as always you are in my prayers.
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> Sunny

okay the quick version update.

He says he is done & we talked about splitting things up. Where my dad works and H use to work they all know OW is pregnant who is now step-daughter to one of the brothers int he family business. I talked to my dad yesterday morning and he has known for 2 months and was waiting to see if H was man enough to tell me--my dad didn't know I knew.

It sounds like the OW and her mom are planning to try get everything they can from H--my dad has heard this via the other brother who he works closely with/for. My Dad now is pissed that H hasn't lived at home since end Jan. because he thought H was actually doing the right thing and staying.

I told my dad it was great until he told me about her being pregnant and then day by day he changed and mainly he changed when he realized that their was no alternative but her having it and that in my opinion he was running. My dad and I both wonder why he even came back--because when he came back he knew she was pregnant and I said I can't figure it out--why come back and leave again. We have decided not to say anything to my mom who thinks things are great and won't forgive him for leaving this time. My dad's advice is if I think that their is possibility of it working and me wanting it too then we leave my mom out of it for the time being.

I told my H that everyone knew at his former work and that my DAD has known for 2 months--he was shocked--I think half the reason he wanted to be done is that he was afraid to face my parents--he asked what my dad thought and I told him he isn't thrilled but thought you(H) were here for the long haul to make it work and is not to impressed that he has left again. H wanted to make sure that I told my Dad that he H told me a long time ago in November and I said I told my DAD that I have known since Dec. 11 the day after we went and got x-mas trees. SO why did H care that my Dad know he told me awhile ago--guess he doesn't want him mad at him.

H seems a little shocked that I have talked to my dad. I told him that frankly I began losing him the day he had to tell me and really knew I was losing him when she definetly keeping the child. He said well we had problems before and I said we did and we were working on them and no one forced you to move home or to tell IC and MC that you were happy and that this was what you wanted (that was before I knew about OW being pregnant) and he was asked outright by MC if he wanted to continue.

Anyway I told him I would stand beside him in this so he had better think for one of last times about this D he wanted--also I was looking to legal sep. and CS so that I got what our son needed before all h*** broke lose when the other child was born. I said what matters is to protect my son--he was a bit startled by this and calmness to and straightforwardness with all that. By the way I checked with the state and all children has equal rights to CS and it doesn't matter who files first etc.

I have told him don't want to see him right now. Saturday he tried to a hang out after son went to bed and I told hime he needed to leave that shocked him. I think I'm going out of town for the long weekend--H said he would take care of the dogs.

Interesting that he's going to think some more about it--I told when I'm gone and D from you--you can't call and tell me about your life.

When he calls I tell him I don't want to talk he won't deal well with a PB I can tell. I don't think that he will do well with me being gone over long weekend--oh well.

I really think he thought it would be over with my parents when they knew--I honestly think that he was scared for them to know.

I told my Dad that I wasn't sure if I was done or not yet.

Okay so it was suppose to be brief but it wasn't-sorry.

I think he needs to realize that he does love me and that I'm the best thing that has every happened to him. I think he was amazed that I told him about what was happening and that we were worried for him--my dad and I.

Hello ladies,

AD ~ glad to see you around, hope you are feeling better.

Kris ~ glad you had a good weekend w/ H, looks like things are looking up!

Sunny, JT2, LMF how were your weekends? I hope all is well.

Well for my update H & I had a long talk yesterday, I did LB a bit but we did agree that right now we have to focus on each other, not his mom or how my parents feel, his daughter coming over - none of that, just me & him for right now, stop focusing on past mistakes & concentrate on our present & future. We went out to see a movie, then came home and talked some more.

I pray he is sincere in his new found effort to really begin recovery in our M. Our 8th wedding anniversary is tomorrow & we have plans to go out to dinner, we don't exchange gifts but I did buy a card for him & I am wrting a little note telling him how excited I am about our new beginning, (8 means new beginnings.) I guess I am going to try to do a real Plan A now. I am not fooling myself into thinking he is gonna do a overnite turnaround, he can be very stubborn - but so can I!

BBYG~

That sounds great.

Would love an update from the rest of you also!

Thanks Albany,

I am proceeding with great caution here, cuz I feel like I can't get my hopes up too high. He knows I am at the end of my rope. So maybe he is seeing the light?

I don't know what to think about your H being worried about your parents knowing, other than he has to know it would be easier to play the "I want you back / No, I am done" game without your parents knowing. My parents have no idea what has gone on this last year, if they did they would hit the roof, they never wanted me to take him back the 1st time much less the 2nd!

Plan B may be his wake up call, if nothing else you need to do it for you & your peace of mind.

I would be guarded also with my hopes and feelings, etc.

Interesting that he may be seeing the light.

What do you think about H wanting to make sure my dad knew he told me along time ago?

You know I really think that my H loves me but can't admit for everything that has happened etc. and that he feels it is easier to run or why else come back when you know she is pregnant ( remember though she told hime she would have abortion) and then only to leave when you realize it is going away and it will have to be faced--I really think that he is was scared of my parents knowing and everyone else.

I will say a little pray for you BBGY--I hope it is on the road to recovery.

You know when the sh@@ gets deep w/OW & OC who H will lean on even if we are supposedly getting a D.

I need prayers & lots of them, I have read here that it takes at least 2 yrrs. before real recovery starts, if that mean 2 yrs. from DDay, I am well on my way? If it is 2 yrs. from the time he came home, Oh Lord help me! He doens't trust that I can move on from his A, I can't blame him since I do tend to LB about it when upset but I know that it has to stop & I will if I see effort from him.

It seems to me that your H knows that having your parents know about his A & OC on the way will give you the support that you don't have right now & possibly lead you to make a FINAL decision that YOU ARE DONE & you begin D. He doesn't want that, why they feel they need to play these games I will never know, I know mine does all the time, but when you have had enough you will know.

Hey everyone!!! Weekend was great. We ran and played all weekend and had a great time. This coming weekend will be a good one also. 3 days for livin, lovin, and fun!! H is really doing good right now, no LB's on mine or his part. We are just talking about visitations and stuff. But just talk nothing set yet. I told him what the state laws are and we are going from there. I still take it day by day and see what happens. I hope everyones day has been good.
Sunny <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

Would you all like to take bets of if H calls tonight??? I bet not <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> . All I have to say is that my H is a dumb*** not to take my support in all this and to walk away--I'm sure it will be a good battle alone--let's see pay child support to me and battle a D and battle OW for C or N/C and CS. That seems like aroughter road to travel to me then to stay and try and make your M work with the support of your wife in the OW/OC issue.

But what I'm I but a the wife you apparently knows nothing--I can't even figure out that H comes around more than just seeing our son <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I'm sure he won't like it tonight when I'm very distant.

Anyway, hope everyone has a good evening and I would like to hear everyone's updates.

Okay girls~

BBYG, JT2, KrisM--haven't heard any thing from you guys today.

AD and KTbunch hope all is well.

The update for me which isn't nearly as important as LMF's situation right now.

Of course he called <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> good thing you guys didn't bet <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

He called at a little after six-didn't hear the phone because I was mowning the lawn. Our son was playing on our deck and heard my cell phone so he went and got it and brought it outside.

H called again and I answered--he said that he was going to his place to take a shower and then he was going to come over to get some dress shoes to wear to the hearing he has today for work and union thing. I said fine--he didn't like the fact that I didn't sound all that enthuastic. He said well can't come get them and I said-fine with me.

He hadn't came by 7:30 I left and went and watched my mom ride etc. He finally called-had actually almost hit a homeless guy that ran in front of him that was high as a kite and police came and hauled the guy off.

He was all cheery and great and I told him gold luck tomorrow and he gave me a hug and said he was trying to get through the stuff today and he hadn't had time to think about anything else which I know is true but he better start thinking. I sent him on his way and that is that for now.

Hello,

I haven't posted here today since I was concerned about Luv too. I hope she is ok.

H & I are supposed to go out to dinner still this evening, he wasn't real solid w/ details cuz of his work schedule, I have decided that whatever happens I will not LB, will not get mad, just don't have the energy. I have decided that if H & don't make it out I am going to happy hr. & have an anniversary drink for myself, I owe myself that much for sticking it out this long, I know many that would have walked away & not looked back on DDay. We had a good morning at least. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

I still have a card to give him w/ the little note in it about the good times & how I hope & pray WE can start to work on our M first & then resolve other issues, so we will see.

Hey girls,

Luv is going through my biggest fear right now. I am at a lost for words. I will not be subject to that type of situation. I think it is best for me to cut my losses now. I am already hurt over the whole situation and I know that I will not be able to endure that.

My H called this morning as I was reading Luv's story and I started to read it to him. H was in a good mood until I read the post to him on the phone. I do not want to go through this. H cut me off and said that he did not want to hear that or talk about it right now. I said you asked me how I was doing but never want to hear exactly how I am.

I beleive that I am going to end my frustrations and just do it get a D!! I do not want to be in this situation with H or anyone for that matter. I do not see things getting any better am afraid of the worst. I do not see me waiting for H to come around after all he is the reason we are in this mess!!

I do not want to married like this any longer. If the alternative is being by myself with our kids then so be it.

Luv is experiencing my greatest fear of all and I can't breathe just thinking about it!!

I am so sorry for her! I hope she knows that she is loved!!

I am Lost and see no future for this marriage at this point. I can not help but expect the worst. Everyday is almost a battle to keep my sanity, I don't want to be in this situation any longer - not one second!!

JT

JT,

Try to hang in there, maybe do Plan B & let H see what life would be like without contact w/ you. Don't jump & file for a divorce, you may rush into a decision that you are making out of anger & frustration, I know I have said this to you before, but you need to make sure you have done EVERYTHING you can before you walk away, then you will have no regrets. I know exactly the pain that Luv is in, I wouldn't wish it on anyone not even OW, although she deserves as good as she dished out & more.

Don't let exhaustion, fear & frustration take over your ability to make rational decisons this is what the enemy wants. My advice to you is to keep praying, get your legal affairs in order & do Plan B if you can't do contact w H right now.

Don't give up girl!

JT - Please don't make any rash decisions. I agree with BG - try plan b first. You never know how you or your H will handle the birth of OC. Right now, I don't think it would be any easier going through it divorced or married. It will still drive you crazy if you are D and H is there. Just make sure you are positive what you want. Ending your M is a major decision - don't take it lightly and have regrets later. Hang in there - you are tough and can handle all of this.


Now for my update. H managed to screw things up again. Every time I think things are looking up for us, I find another lie or omission. I saw on the bank records another charge for restaurant - one that I didn't go to with H. I confronted him about this last night. This happened a week ago - before our wonderful Sat. At first he said that they met to discuss upcoming ultrasound. I told him that was a really lame excuse. There is nothing to discuss about an ultrasound - especially since he should have never been there. He stood there silently when I said that. I spoke my mind and he had nothing to say. I asked him to leave, which he promptly did. He emailed me later in the evening to say OW wanted to meet to see if he had made any decisions yet. Of course he had to go running to meet her. This just makes me second guess everything over the past few weeks. How many times does this have to happen? I am getting really numb to the whole thing - not even too emotional. Just really tired of it all and wondering how much I am suppose to endure. How many times do I get my hopes up, only to be disappointed again? I am really struggling with this because I truly believe that God would want me to stand up and fight for my M - I feel that is the best thing to do, the right thing to do. But how many times do I have to be hurt? Would God want me to continue to face this pain? I have no answers.

I am suppose to visit my sister's family over the long weekend. I am not so sure I even want to go anymore. I don't think I can trust H while I am gone, but yet I obviously can't trust him when I am home. What's the difference?

Talk to you all later.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> How many times do I get my hopes up, only to be disappointed again? I am really struggling with this because I truly believe that God would want me to stand up and fight for my M - I feel that is the best thing to do, the right thing to do. But how many times do I have to be hurt? Would God want me to continue to face this pain? I have no answers. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Kris I know it is hard but try to remember God's time is not our time, we have to learn to be still & wait sometimes, believe me I feel the same way, how long do I stay in this M seeing little or no results, then I think just because I can't see what God is doing doesn't mean he isn't working it out for my good! I don't know if this is helping you are not, but I borrowed this from Pastor Doreen I know we ALL need this encouragement;

Learn to focus on the Lord rather than the problems in your lives.

Instead of wallowing in self-pity, we should endeavor to trust. Instead of despairing we must hang on with confidence. Instead of playing the problem over again and again in our head, we should recount the character of God and rest in His sufficiency.

We must seek to live faithfully. Sometimes God allows the trials to get us moving. He may want to move us away from something or towards
something. Sometimes He puts us through a test to deepen our character. Sometimes we go through tough times because that test is a stage on which to testify of God's mercy and love. Trust the Lord, will you?

Hope you are having a blessed day.

Hello ladies! I have been trying to catch up here but boy these threads get long SO quickly.
BIG ((( HUG ))) to you all.

I am so sorry for all the pain here... I remember in February when H's OC was born.. I thought I was ok.. knew it was coming and wasn't too worried... thought I was fine and BAM we got a call from H's sister and I LOST IT. I actually picked up a plate and threw it at H's head. Didn't mean to, didn't think about it- it just happened so quickly I barely remember it. It all comes rushing back and the reality that you thought you had faced-- really hits you. Since then, my recovery w/H took a nose dive. Yes it was my fault at this point, cause I became unmanagable and irrational because I could not conrtol my emotions. He could not handle me having all this fresh pain again and he began to resent me for it... he had no more patience I suppose. Should have been more understanding but we all know they just don't have enough for this raw pain.

SO... here I am seperated again from/H... I found a lovely home that I decided I would rent and possibly purchase for myself and my son. I no longer wanted to be held back in any way by this pain and M. I have been down for so long. H was so upset when he found my documents for the house, he left and that was about 1 month ago. He wanted me to chase him but I let him go- I want to move forward and prosper again like a living "breathing" human being!

Well... now I am partially moved in and H and I have been "seeing" and talking to one another on pretty decent terms. He saw the house this week and cryed and cryed about how sad he is and how every room is "me" with no trace of him. I do feel sad and empty when I am in the new house painting, fixing and fussing with things-- this was what we were to do together! One half of me wants to say please come w/me! And the other half wants my sanity, my life, a clear head, a new life! I am definitely in limbo land STILL-- but at lease I know I did something to move forward in MY life.

I wanted mostly to pop in to say that for everyone here who is dealing w the pain of your hurtful, wishy-washy H and the OW in his life still (complete utter nightmare)---- what is left of my heart goes out to you. I don't know how ever you are still standing. You all are SO much stronger than you realize... so much more durable that I feel I have ever been. I cannot control LBing, ever... I cannot follow any of the principals you all try to... I just want you to know how strong you are. You ladies have endured more for your families than most could, and that God WILL reward you for your strength, perserverence and your faith. I know you feel like doormats, weak, defeated, and I do to, but you are NOT- you are admirable women who are being put through a war and are on the front lines fighting a fight that many could not.

Oh, and I wanted to add that H had his first CS hearing a few days ago. I am proud to say that I did not feel I needed or wanted to go.. that I did not stress while he was there, that I did not let it comsume me and I didn't worry if he talked to her, etc.

I asked him how it went, he said he had to go back in 30 days when DNA was done.... asked if she was hostile.. he said not too much, she just asked him why he doesn't want to see his daughter..etc. and I asked no more. I did not want to go because I do not know what she looks like cept from others descriptions and I like it that way. This made me feel that I have made SOME progress in moving to the sane world by not letting her or OC or any of these issues enter my world now. One small victory for *me* I suppose?

G123,

You are strong also, even if you don't feel it, it takes a strong woman to even TRY to work at saving their M after this kind of trial, a weak woman would walk or run away upon DDay w/o a 2nd thought, you didn't so don't sell yourself short.

If you couldn't or chose not to handle it than so be it, everyone is different, doesn't make you weak. what are you planning to do now, Plan B, D? Whatever path you chose make sure you can do it w/ regrets or what ifs?

G123--I'm with BBYG--go for it-you are still strong and maybe as she said this will be PB and a complete wake up call for H--maybe a D or maybe not if you want that. Sometimes men really have to lose something to realize how valuable it is. Unfortnately they usually push us by that time to the point of no return.

It was great to hear from you.

JT2~please hang in there--I have been where you are several times on this board while posting and think that i'm done and then after a while of venting on this board, getting encouragement from this board, and some rest I have picked up again. So please hang in there.

KrisM~tell me why they do this stupid sh!@? I'm with you it makes you wonder but hang in there--get away and don't contact H while you are gone. Let him live completely alone for a few days.

Looking forward to hearing from you all.

Not much update here ladies.

H called yesterday and he asked how I was and I said a little grouchy. He asked why and I replied because I'm annoyed with how much OW can get from him because she is a dead beat. He asked if we needed to legal sep. and start CS for our son and I said it doesn't make difference in Oregon and if we did in fact part ways he would want to change org. amount to our son I'm sure based upon him paying for/having another dependent child which would decrease our son's CS by 75 dollars.

We threw around some numbers he would have to pay her based on C or N/C and then I reminded him it was his decision but he must think about the havoc she could cause him, our son , or us. He said true and then he said he would need to get an atty. and I asked for what--and he said for dealing with OW and OC. Nothing about us. DIDn't aske again and think things may be a bit better then they were--at least he didn't say let hurry up do a D to start CS for son.

So not all bad I guess.

AD, are your lurking?

Have a great day everyone--I'll be lurking all day.