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#837736 11/24/04 11:44 AM
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Hi Dealan, this is not a post to call you out on your actions or anything, but I've read your posts a while back and was reading the latest and I couldn't get you out of my head, well I mean what you've been through and what you've put up with.

2 OC, my goodness. Why in the world did you not walk away from the second? And how is your marriage going now. I mean if he got away with it the second time, why in the world would you think he wouldn't do it again? Let me reiterate something you wrote on a previous post

"On the other hand, I'm def. NOT the person I thought I was. I've learned a TON about myself and other people through all this. Everyone's breaking point is different. See? I've broken into a gagillion/magillion pieces, and I've yet to shatter. Someone else (God forbid) might've thrown in the towel a long time ago."

I can understand what you mean when you say you've been broken into a million pieces, so have I (in the past) and after awhile after you've hurt so much after awhile it doesn't even hurt anymore right. But that doesn't mean you should keep subjecting yourself to this. I'm sure it's not healthy for you, or (if) your children. In all honesty. I can't really look at you as a strong courageous woman because of this, I see you more as being a doormat (sorry if sounds harsh, I picked that word up from here) I mean your husband is not made of gold, you can find love again. Thanks for reading.

#837737 11/25/04 01:01 AM
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Xangel,

I was wondering if you've ever been married?

#837738 11/25/04 01:16 AM
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XAX,

I am not Kimmy, but I read your post and wanted to respond. I can see from your sig line that you are only 22. The same age I was when my first child was born. I am now 43 and have been M'd for 13 years. I had my first child out of wedlock. I had two more children with my H after I married him 8 years after my ds was born. I thought at your age I was "mature" and able to handle life. What have I learned in the past 20+ years? That we continue to grow and mature as we age and accumulate experience. The difference between a woman in her 30's or 40's and a woman in her 20's is vast. I do not know you and do not claim to know how mature you are, but I can tell you from experience that you don't know what you can overcome until you are faced with it. My H had two A's and I had one. The 2nd A of my H has produced a pregnancy. Do I still love my H? You betcha. Do I still like who he is? Yes, no doubt. His actions during these periods of time do not define the man he is. We are all sinners, we are all weak. Our strength must come from the Lord, not from ourselves. Kimmy is a far better person than many for her ability to forgive and do what is right for herself and her children.

By the way this is a marriage building site. Are you seeking information or self growth before you decide to marry? Just curious.

God bless you in your journey of life.

#837739 11/25/04 01:18 AM
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No star fish I have not. I was supposed to get married to my ex, but I was not going to marry a philandering loser.

Back to your hidden point. One does not have to be married or neccesarily have to be in a given situation to understand what's right and what's wrong, or be able to understand.

#837740 11/25/04 01:29 AM
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Well faithful follwer I am seeking both. I love to learn. These days I guess I have really just been trying to figure out the ways of the world. I don't come as often to this board since it scares me because I'm afraid this is what I have to look forwad to one day when I do get married. I used to post a little bit back then. It was Pepperband that really gave me the wake up call to drop my loser ex. But anyhow. Yes I believe in forgiveness, but sometimes enough is enough. Maybe God has better plans for her, in which she is not going to find and be the best Dealen she can be as long as she has to deal with all the issues that surround having a philandering husband who has 2 OC. I mean how many of you guys would actually put up with more than one OC.

#837741 11/25/04 01:40 AM
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XAX,

I agree that I would not recommend you marry someone that cheated on you already. Is he involved in your DD's life? Would I put up with a 2nd OC? I'd like to think I would not but unless I am in those shoes I have learned that I truly cannot know what I would do.

#837742 11/24/04 02:17 PM
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xangel--

I can say this much. I think it is GREAT that you cut your losses and moved on.

I am glad to see at your age you are mature enough to realize you DON'T need that in your life and you are young enough to start over again and again if you'd like to!!! That is SO precious- the young 20's. I'd HATE to have started this aweful journey I've been on at your age. I was LIVIN IT UP HEAVILY and LOVING life for years beyond your age, even. Thank goodness!! LOL!

I think it is a good thing you are evaluating these issues NOW- and you ARE seeing this side of the coin-- seeing where a marriage in crises can lead a couple.. seeing how vulnerable and fragile relationships can be when you do not choose well, or do not take extreme care to PREVENT this garbage. I know I was HIGHLY unprepared for marriage even at 28 when I married. I thought I knew it all but had NO CLUE what I was getting into, really!

YES I love my husband and my family. NO I don't advocate divorce... but I don't take offense to your position in this thread at all. I often feel just as stupid as you may think we all look here!!

But low and behold.. myself and many others have survived it (one OC for me, thank you!!)... and we are a better and stronger/happier couple than ever. The thing is--- sometimes in life you are thrown SUCH a curve ball that it ACTUALLY after all the pain...HELPS you to realize how selfish you were in ways.... to become more tollerant of the world and of the unfairness in it! It can also bring you to a point of actually APPRECIATING so much more than you ever would have... if you were spared this terrible pain.

Never, in a million years did any of us think we would "put up with" or stay after being cheated on, much less with an OC-or 2 <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> Yes 2 OC's are more than anyone should EVER have to endure-- and me- h*ll no way - I'd definitely be done. BUT we ALL do many things that we cannot believe... for the bigger picture of our family and our love for the raw specimen called MEN... lol

Please keep learning all you can, I agree with you very much in many ways in what you are saying, and I LOVE to see a strong, intelligent woman like yourself protecting herself, her future, etc. THAT is AWESOME. I was JUST like you-- and it can happen to the best of us, so just be careful of what you believe cannot ever be, thats all.

HUGS, Gio

#837743 11/24/04 03:02 PM
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XAX,

I was only going to recommend Dr. H's book "Owners, Renters and Freeloaders"....thought it might be a great resource if you were still unmarried.

I see from post, that you're a bit defensive about me asking if you are married. You mention this:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">One does not have to be married or neccesarily have to be in a given situation to understand what's right and what's wrong, or be able to understand. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">No, I don't have to black to understand prejudice...that's for certain. But I have to be black to truly feel it. The dynamics of living together and being married are not at all the same...that's one reason I was thinking that particular book would be great for you, because it will help you to perhaps pick a better partner and plan for a better future. The dynamics of being with one man for a couple of years is completely different than being married for 10 or 20 years. Your lives are intertwined in ways you can't even fathom.

Do you think after what these ladies have been through that they care if some inexperienced unwed mother shows up and doesn't offer respect? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> They have so much on their plates...and so many folks who need them, that they don't have time to worry about the opinion of someone who can't possibly have any idea how much pain they have suffered.

I'm always amazed how folks who make such incredibly bad choices, criticize the choices of others. Why does this happen? I looked at your previous posts...and found this synopsis of the last few years. None of us have perfect lives, make perfect choices....or choices that are understandable to anyone else sometimes. You are young, inexperienced and incapable of understanding the choices of the women here. I understand your frustration at seeing unfair treatment and wondering why women stay with repeat cheaters....but considering your own history....do you really think you're in a position question the choices of anyone else? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Oct 2001-me and bf meet
Nov 2001-start planning baby
Jan 2002-move in together
Feb 2002-I'm pregnant [Smile]
April 2002-goes to the movies with a girl( I find out later) doesnt turn into affair
July 2002-something fishy going on at his job with co worker (nothing physical but still) also having other problems fights-I move back with parents-he wth his mom. We make up but still live apart.
Nov 2002-Baby born [Big Grin]
Feb 2003-still living apart, been getting along, he starts acting hostile with me, bad attitudes. Find out he's been dating a girl he met internet. We break up. I become OW 2 weeks later (crazy situation, did it to spite the girl (hate her)she's a no good
Oct 2003-He finally gets rid of her. We officially back together (hung in there for family)
Feb 2004- we move back in together (still problems
many times I kick him out comes crawling back 1 or 2 days later.
April 2004- discover him about to get in the shower with an old ex of his... [Eek!] (I'm still traumatized) kick him out thought this was the last straw..still weak..we get back together
July 2004-break lease move back in with parents, actually trusting him more now that we are apart, but somehow he's still been sneakin in phone calls to last year biatch... [Roll Eyes] </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">XAX....I'm sure at other times, you can be a nice young woman, but this post makes you sound not only silly and hypocritical...but insensitive and mean.

#837744 11/24/04 03:04 PM
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Thank you Gio that was a nice post.

I am glad to see at your age you are mature enough to realize you DON'T need that in your life and you are young enough to start over again and again if you'd like to!!! That is SO precious- the young 20's. I'd HATE to have started this aweful journey I've been on at your age. I was LIVIN IT UP HEAVILY and LOVING life for years beyond your age, even. Thank goodness!! LOL!

I found this statement a bit funny, don't feel bad that i went through all this crap now, I am so grateful I did now rather than being like in my 40's and not knowing how to deal. You see this way I have the rest of my life to know what to watch out for, or know that I can and will get over it, if heartbreak were to come again. I know I'm only 22 and my views on stuff will probably change, but I'm glad I have God in my life to guide me as well. I made some mistakes in the past as well, I took my ex back more than once, hoping he would change so I could have my happy little family. I cried all the time miserable with my ex because I couldn't trust him. But I faitfully prayed to God to help me, and gradually after awhile he did. He enabled me to let my ex go, and now I'm single and happier than I have been in years. I also understand it's a process to find happiness again, and some find it sooner than others.

#837745 11/24/04 03:12 PM
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Why thank you Starfish for throwing those horrible memories in my face, but I got my wake up call thank you very much. I look back now and feel like a fool believe me, and I don't know waht I was thinking. I wish I would of walked the first time, but that's all over for me now. Like I said I'm happier than ever now, that is part of the reason why I posted today, because some men never change. I let him get away with it once and look what happened. I know I made some poor choices, but in my heart I didn't want anything bad, I just wanted to have my family together. I've suffered enough for my mistakes believe me.

You know believe it or not, reading all that I feel like crying right now here at my desk. I was such a fool. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> But at least I put and end to it.

#837746 11/24/04 03:19 PM
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<small>[ November 28, 2004, 05:30 AM: Message edited by: baba2 ]</small>

#837747 11/24/04 03:22 PM
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XX

I have two OC from my affair. My H took these two children in as his own. As for why he stood by my side I don't know. I do the know the affair was over before I found out I was pregnant with the 2nd. My H considers these two children as his own and legally they are his.

On the other hand my H also has an Oc.

H and I made vows. We both broke some of those vows. We went through some really horrible times. We decieded to stick it out. All of this was 4+ yrs ago. We are stronger than ever now thanking God that we didn't split up.

#837748 11/24/04 03:29 PM
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Starfish is really just trying to do some predamage control for some other members, right Star? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

I think it is all in the way you write a post or how you come across. Now, of course, it is easy for ME to give you some clear and non-angry responses, but Kimmy may not! LOL. Around here, emotions run so high that things are not always taken so well when they dont know you well, or when they feel you are judging them for being something they are not, and I'm sure Kimmy does not feel she is a doormat-- know what I mean. Be careful of how you post is all.

I dont think you have anything to cry about right now! Its GREAT that you are PROTECTING yourself and your interests.. psssft who cares if you made these easily made mistakes at 21 years old-- no big deal. You have your little one now, who you wanted, and you are strong and smart, obviously. You have a HUGE duty to your child to protect him or her from these types of "men" who will destroy, destroy, destroy, if you let them! I became an unwed mother myself at age 18 and I was VERY strong and cautious of who my son came into contact with -- and about how he saw me treated-- along with letting him see me happy and thriving! Keep that up now--and dont look at your EASILY fixed mistakes of the past. Now- marrying the guy and spending (wasting) years of your young life with him--THAT is what you'd really be sad about!

#837749 11/24/04 03:29 PM
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XAX,

It was not my intent to bring up old wounds, I'm sorry...really. And I'm very happy that you are trying to build a better future...which WAS the reason for my first question. But when you make a post to a particular person and make judgements about their choices....don't you think folks will look up your choices too? That's only reasonable. My point is not to make you feel bad, but I don't like you doing the same to kimmy either. We are all struggling to find our way in a sometimes cruel world. Your choices, my choices, kimmy's....we are each entitled to our autonomy, dignity and humanity....and our choices.

This isn't about right and wrong. What's right for you could be very very wrong for someone else. Aren't there good reasons you made bad choices? Youth, fear, etc. Do you know kimmy well enough to understand her reasons? I'm just begging you for a little empathy Angel. I'm just asking for you to recognize that at 22 you might still not "get" all of this yet.

You say you want to learn....well that is a WORTHY, fabulous endeavor. Stay, learn and make this an internal journey worth taking rather than an effort to pile another burden on someone who's already carrying enough pain and betrayal. What do you truly gain by telling kimmy you can't respect her? What does she gain? Nothing....that's what.

What if instead of telling her you don't respect her you did this instead?

Kimmy, can I ask why you stay with someone who keeps cheating?

or

Kimmy, I keep thinking of you. It makes me feel bad for you that your husband has done this twice...how do you cope? I'm angry for you.

THEN....you learn something. THEN you show compassion an care. When you use *I* statements instead of *you* statements...you have the ability to share and learn. You also have the opportunity share what you've learned instead of alienating people....and that may be even better.

#837750 11/24/04 03:32 PM
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but Angel.. please let me give you one word of advice..

DO NOT PLAN BABIES WITH MEN YOU HAVE ONLY KNOWN ONE MONTH!! lol I bet you know that now, right?!

#837751 11/24/04 03:39 PM
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Ackk Gio....don't remind me. Lord what was I thinking. I fell head over heels with a guy who fed me nothing but lies. To think at that time I was a good girl, working two jobs, in college, catholic family and I planned on having a baby. Ok yes we all make poor choices. Poor poor choice, but now I have my little angel who I wouldn't trade in the world.

Starfish your right. I regretted putting the doormat word as soon as I hit the post button. Kimmy most likely will take offense. I worded it all wrong, but I suppose it is not fair of me to point out others choices just becaue I have learned from mine already, and perhaps they have not gotten there yet. It took me a while as well, and everyone will get there in there own time. I just really wondered what is in Kimmy head, because I used to post here and some of the woman here were telling me oh no he is never going to change and yada yada. So that and through the experience, I got the notion that most of these philanderes aren't going to change.

#837752 11/24/04 05:20 PM
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XAX,

I really do understand, and you've had a really hard time too. I sometimes read stories here and think similar thoughts "my god, what makes people stay?" (and I have no doubt that people have thought the same thing reading my story <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> ) And yet, I'm not that person, married to that man, looking into the eyes of those children, or dealing with an one particular OW.

Hopefully, if kimmy reads this whole thread, she'll appreciate the softening and understanding you've expressed and respect your journey as well as hers....I think she will...she is a caring person. We really can learn from each other and no matter the age, sex, experience...all have something to share. I'm not minimizing the qualities of youth and energy.....thank you so very much for replying. I appreciate it.

Oh, and I was serious about that book...I gave it to my daughter who was considering living with her boyfriend. She said it really helped open her eyes about the emotional commitment and dynamics of different kinds of relationships. You deserve better....most of us deserve better....<sigh> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

#837753 11/24/04 06:19 PM
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I had a thought...

Look how forgiving and tolerant Kimmey is. WAY more tolerant than I can be.

If Kimmey can "forgive her husband", for creating two OC in affairs and for possibly having a current ongoing affair, she can forgive anything!

She is forgiving, tolerant of her husband's failings, accepting of him when he slips and sleeps with other women, and understanding of his weaknesses with having sex with other woman.

If she can forgive these terrible multiple acts of cheating by her husband "against her personally" (and the other kids he created outside the marriage) then a little wrong "word" said on a message board by somebody will be forgiven by her instantly and quickly.

(If she is the kind of woman I think she is, forgiving, tolerant, accepting, and super understanding!)

#837754 11/26/04 04:06 PM
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by XangelX:
<strong> It was Pepperband that really gave me the wake up call to drop my loser ex. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Oh good God! Did I actually call him "loser"??? I don't remember doing that!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> Please forgive me if I did.

The book Star*fish is recommending is going to be a really good one for you! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> It will help you spot any man who is a "keeper" ... and also help you spot any man who is a "non-keeper" early in the dating process ... before too much damage is done.

Glad you are still reading and posting.

Stay well. And keep your standards HIGH

Pep

#837755 11/28/04 11:34 PM
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What is the book she recommended? I don't want to go back through all the post to look........sorry I'm lazy tonight.

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