Told H that I am going to file for legal separation and/or possibly divorce. I can't do this anymore. Has anybody filed for legal separation and do you advocate doing it first before divorce?

H says that although he doesn't blame me, he thinks it's too bad that I've come to this conclusion before starting IC. We did MC a year ago and he did nothing but lie to the counselor about his C with OW. Anyway, I just e-mailed the following to H: (edited for profanity reasons)

"We started therapy before and look where it got us. And you don't want to conform to what people are telling you to do and I'm not seeing any effort on your part. You and I disagree....you are in denial that OW has a big part in this and you don't see that WE (you and I) cant do ANYTHING with her in the picture. And I'm afraid she will ALWAYS be in the picture, and now you have the EXCUSE of OC. Well, you can take OC and you can take OW and you can shove BOTH up your A**. I'm tired of your games. That's all they are...games. This pawn has officially been shattered. Have fun playing the game by yourself."


Please help me find the strength to continue to make a stand for myself. Don't know if I'm going about it the right way, but I feel like I have no choice. ~Michele

{{{Michelle}}}

I'm so sorry it has come to this.

I don't know what else to say, I am just starting to realize the ramifications of C because of OC, and I fear my M may end the same as yours.

I do not blame you for the choice you are making, it takes a strong woman to say "Enough Is Enough!".

You already know you have our support - all of us.

Keep your chin up, sweetie....thinking of you...

Big Hugs,
AVNL

I am so sorry it's come to this. Check if your state has a legal separation, as mine did not. I do think it gives you time to be sure that's what you really want. I understand that you're tired because that is the same place that I am at. It is a tough place to be ecspecially when it seems neverending. Take care of yourself!

I am sorry things are not going in the direction you wanted. Legal seperation can be quicker than a divorce and some states require that you be seperated a year before divorcing, so in those instances it would be prudent so your rights are protected. It can also be the right step if you are unsure if you want to divorce right now. However, if you are decided and your state allows it, then going strait for a divorce might be the way to go. This is going to sound callous but....the longer you are apart, the less guilty/bad he will feel and the less likely to give you the terms you ask for. Protect your kids, protect yourself. And again, I am sorry.

Michele,
Sorry it's come to this. Filing for separation or divorce may bring some clarity to your H. And you too! It does feel good I will tell you, to put a notch in the self-respect belt when you file. I held my divorce papers over my bed when I received them and thought "You CANNOT do this to me, I'm not a doormat, I do NOT have to live like this."

Now of course that Lost is out of his Fog, we'll see... time will tell.

Careful what you put in those emails... remember you may see them again in court someday. Anger is justified, BUT you will be nothing to regret if you conduct ALL your dealings with your WH with the utmost class & respect for him, even though right now he isn't acting like he deserves it. Best of luck to you. PRAY!

I did the legal seperation In my state its called seperate maintenance... reason mainly was health insurance purpose and pension.

You can make sure that as his legal wife you will get those things ask your lawyer.

He did get smacked into reality with it. He is desperate to get me back and at first made idle threats ... then when i stood my ground and said go ahead this paper says I dont care.... LOL that made him fess up to wanting to strong arm me into submission.

We are working on it slowly and I am now in the drivers seat.

It is very nice. The loss of your family can do that to a WS.

Michele,

While I completely support your position to file for separation (and would suggest a formal plan B), I would also encourage you not to send emails to your husband full of disrespectful judgements (and profanity).

Your husband has a point. It's "too bad" that you're at this point before starting IC. You have several (tons) of valid remarks regarding his past history with marriage counseling, but you need to make them in a clear way that DOESN'T call him a stupid, self-centered, clueless, lying moron.

And no, you can't send an email saying "Dear H, I don't consider you a stupid, self-centered, clueless, lying moron...".

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Well, everyone, here's some great entertainment for you. (edited for names and profanity) This was sent to me yesterday by my H after I told him I was filing for separation and/or divorce. I can argue almost every point he's made pertaining to me, but I'm not going to give him that satisfaction of arguing back. I'm just not going to respond to it! Anybody else have a WS that feels the same way??

Quote from H:

"I just had a brilliant idea. Since we've all gotten so good at playing
WS's the bad guy let's try a new game. This one would be called
EXPOSE'. It would consist of the four of us sitting down and really
getting to the truth. Not Micheles version to OW'H. Not OW's H version to
OW. Not OW's version to OW's H. Not OW's version to Michele. The
truth. What's really going on here.

Here's my version. I made it clear that the best thing was for me to
have some space to figure out what was best for me and I suggested that
EVERYONE do the same. Then suddenly OW's worried about Micheles
influence on me and Micheles worried about OW's influence on me, yada,
yada, yada. So boundaries were set (or so we all thought they were).
Things go well for awhile. Michele and I take turns staying at the house,
not spending any time together. OW and I dont talk for extended
periods of time, and then when we do they're short conversations. Then
suddenly Michele comes home late on Friday night (when it was not her turn
to stay at the house) after drinking and later all but admits it was
with the intentions were geared towards being with me. Boundaries were
broken. I admit my fault here. Im just as guilty. My point is Michele
is not innocent like Im sure she played it out to be. Im sure it was
more like previous claims of "3-4 times per week" and how wonderful life
is. (Thats also a big reason we don't get anywhere because you want
everything fairytale and can't accept harsh reality because it hurts)

On the flip side there are the many text messages I have from OW.
Dozens. Telling me how much she misses me, etc. etc. etc. Im sure the
topic of how many times is was made clear that I was invited over to the
house (for tea and cookies im sure) was never mentioned. And of course
since it wasn't mentioned then Im positive the fact that I did not take
her up on that offer was never mentioned either. What about lunch?
Was that mentioned? Yes OW's H and Michele aren't the only two having
secret lunches. OW and I had lunch. And another point of contigency
here is I very plainly told her it should be a "platonic" lunch. And it
was, for the most part, until things started to get out of hand. Thats
when, again, another invitation to the house was not taken advantage
of.

Then there is OW's H, the pouter. Moping around, playing feel sorry for
me games to win back his family and look like the hero. Remember that
conversation, OW? You remember, at lunch when you came around to my
side of the table???? Thats when you kissed me and pointed out that I
hadn't kissed you in the 90 minutes we had been around each other. But
Im sure all of that was left out also.

Oh and Michele, Im sure you're version to OW's H was about the utopian
love that was being rebuilt at our house?? Did you forget to mention
that even after the sex this weekend that it was me who said that it
wasn't a good idea and stressed the importance of continuing the seperation
and acknowledging boundaries? I think I left at went to my moms after
that if I recall it correctly.

You see, this email is because Im not afraid. I'll take all the blame.
That's fine. but heres the bottome line folks. Michele you are just
as much at fault for f**king up this marriage as I am. You dont put
forth any energy for anyone or anything unless it benefits yourself. Ive
been telling you that for years and your mom just had to tell you that
your son said the same thing last week. If he figured it out at 12,
then maybe you should pay attention. OW, I left out hundreds of things
I could have thrown in here and you know it. Bottom line is you have
your H and sister and whoever else believing that I chase you around all
the time. We both know thats not true. If you didn't hear from me in a
certain period of time you were allover me demanding answers (sounds
like her doesn't it OW's H???). There are things youve admitted to me
recently that IM sure you haven't told him. The irony is that when you
start pulling back to protect yourself you get a little self righteous but
you and I both really know that you and I are eerily similar in a lot
of ways. So not only are you lying to your H but I think you're lying to
yourself also. You've done the same thing for two years that I have,
over and over and over. You just shun the responsibility towards me.
Ive kep my mouth shut most of the time.

And OW's H, wow. Grow some balls man and open your eyes. You think
there is a difference between her and I? Thats laughable. I tried to tell
you once but you're world of denial is strong. If you don't hold her
accountable (Im not talking about leaving her for everyone who was just
sure that I was making **** up to split them apart) then you will never
be secure in your marriage. And as ironic as it sounds you should
trust ME on that one. Think about the whole "takes one to know one"
ideology. If you think about it long enough you will know Im right. But I
know how you do things. Im a [censored] and oh, of course a liar, so
you'll shut it down and blow yourself up with some noble, savior, gotta
protect my damsel from the evil knight bull****. Maybe one day you'll tell
me Im right. ya right! lol I'll just know. And worst case
scenario, I'll know and you wont. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

So here it is. The disclaimer (for those of you who just can't believe
I have the nerve to say all of these things, yada, yada, yada). Ive
cheated on my wife. I stepped out of the marriage when I shouldn't have.
I have a fond attachment to adrenaline that only really fed the
infidelity. However, Im not a sex addict and Im not really sick. That
diagnoses is for TV gurus who dont take the time to really get to know the
people whose lives they have in there hands and for wives who refuse to
come half way and accept that their husband cheated on them because
they weren't happy with her (and apparently vice versa in this case). "How
can he make such claims?!" MIchele asks. I'll tell you how because a
respected psychiatrist who took the time to get to know me said so. But
you refuse to admit that. My faults are cheating on my wife instead of
either dragging her to marriage counseling and getting to bottom of it
or just leaving her 8 years ago. Sorry I tried to keep a family
together but I thought it was the right thing to do at the time. My other
fault is not only overstepping the bounds of my marriage but the bounds
of someone elses.

However the only things I have lied about were situations to either not
get caught, or to protect someone else, or both. I have made it known
that I do love OW. Hell I made that known to the whole US TV
audience. I've also made it known that blending families scares the hell out
of me. Ive also told OW how much guilt I carry...well she can tell
you the rest of that if she wants. I also have made it known that I
love Michele. But I have also made it known that many times I don't like
her very much. With that is the reality that I've stated I dont know
if I want/can stay married to her and that Im sure she feels the same
way about me.

Think about this real quick: Isn't it funny that all three of you are
extremely pissed off at me right now. And you know why??????? BECAUSE
IM SPEAKING THE TRUTH. NOW THAT IS SOME FUNNY STUFF!!!!!

So I hope all of this cleared up everyones fairytale misconception
about the wolf in sheeps clothing (im sure it didn't, but this is for my
entertainment anyway). I dont tell people things to get what I want.
HOW COULD I DO THAT WHEN I CAN'T EVEN TELL ANYONE ELSE WHAT IT IS I
WANT? (hmmm, IM sure none of you thought of it that way, did ya?? I
didn't think so). I told OW I loved her, because I do. I told Michele I
loved her, because I do. I told OW I wanted to be with her because I
did. I told Michele I wanted to keep our family together because I
did. Ive told OW I couldn't be with her, had to stop seeing her, etc,
because I really believed that was best. I've told Michele that I
would stop seeing OW because I thought I could do it. I meant those
things when I said them. OW, you told me you understood it because you
do the same thing. Michele and OWH you can't possibly fathom it
because you haven't lived it. But here is a news flash, you two dont know
everything like you think you do. You should try accepting and
understanding other peoples needs sometime and quit projecting your views on
others. If you had done that the first time around maybe I wouldn't even
be sending this email!!!!!!!!

yours in TRUTH,
The Bad Guy 2"

Hi Michele,

Not replying is a good thing. He's clearly using revisionist thinking to justify what he's done. But even when your spouse is having an affair, it's important to sift through the "crap" to see what underlying truth you can find---and to see if you can address it.

He says:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Michele you are just as much at fault for f**king up this marriage as I am. You dont put forth any energy for anyone or anything unless it benefits yourself. I've been telling you that for years and your mom just had to tell you that your son said the same thing last week. If he figured it out at 12, then maybe you should pay attention. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">So, analyze this from a 3rd person perspective. What aren't you putting energy towards that would benefit your husband? What does your son say to your mom about this?

If there are underlying issues that you ought to be addressing---then work on it! But I'd also encourage you to break this dialogue off with him with a Plan B letter---that lovingly tells him that you're willing to work with him towards a mutually satisfying marriage when he can end all contact with the OW and commit to a recovery plan that the two of you agree on. Otherwise---see ya' in court.

And your husband is behaving just like the "addict" that he claims he isn't. Including getting a respected psychiatrist to say he isn't. Michelle---the bottom line is that he's going to have to want to do the work with you to repair the marriage. Until then, you really should have no contact with him.

Wow Michelle, parts of that letter could have been written by my H. It probably is best that you not respond. Have you talked to a lawyer yet?

Hey Wife, hope you're doing okay. I called an attorney this morning but he was in a deposition so I'm awaiting a return phone call. Also scheduled my first IC appt. for Friday. We'll see how it goes. Have not responded to the nonsense the H sent me. Thanks for thinking of me!

It's tough contacting lawyers. I think I played phone tag w/ mine for 2 weeks. Hang in there!