We had a counseling appt yesterday pm. It seemed to go pretty well. H wants to come. I'm not seeing all of the changes that will make that possible.<P>On a "whim" while out doing errands a little later I stopped by his office. I walked in, he was at the computer, he looked at me and hid that screen.<P>Me "What are doing?" indicating the computer.<BR>"Nothing. Writing an email."<BR>"To who?"<BR>Shrug. "Not her."<BR>"Then let me see."<BR>"No."<BR>Starring contest. He pops the screen back up to show an email to OW that starts out with how he will be out of town this weekend.<P>Apparently they have done this for months on the weekend that they work together--letting the other know if they'll be there. So, he's been lying about no contact for months.<P>And, if you read my "I've lost my lovin' feeling" thread from the past few days, you know I have very little left for this battle. No trust, no respect, and I think the lovebank just went bust.<P>His saying "I'm sorry" just doesn't cut it anymore. He's been sorry for an entire year as he's continued to lie and cheat. And that was after discovery.<P>I don't know guys...<P>Lor<P><BR>

Hi Lor,<P>I am so sorry. I am really sorry. I know how it feels. Maybe go to plan B. In other words he can not come over and the two of you not talk for a few weeks. <P>I know you have tried in the past and always ended it in a a couple of days but I really think you need the break. Take time out to relax and not think about things. Worry about what you want for that night. Take a nice long bath or any thing else that makes you happy, calm and feeling special.<P><BR>{{{{{{{{{{LOR}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}<P>I will say a prayer for you.

Lor,<BR>Understand your fury...but what is the actual purpose of this communication.<P>What do they do with this knowledge?<P>Is OW still seeing scumbag friend?<P>Does the message stop with whether or not they will both be at work or does it get more personal?<P>------------------<BR>Faith, Hope, Love Remain,<BR>but the greatest of these is Love.<BR>1 Corinthians 13:13

Thanks Paha for the hug.<P>FHL--the email was about a sentence and a half. I can't trust him to tell me the truth about the purpose when he has lied that it isn't even happening.

I understand. Prayers for you, today.<P>------------------<BR>Faith, Hope, Love Remain,<BR>but the greatest of these is Love.<BR>1 Corinthians 13:13

Sorry Lor....<P>I know how this must feel. I recently found emails from H to OW sent last week when he said he would not contact her. And sadly, I can relate completely to the frustration of "if he lies about it happening - he likely lies about the intent." Sometimes, it is so hard to imagine ever getting to a place where we can believe them again.<P>My thoughts are with you...<P>Starpony<p>[This message has been edited by Starpony (edited February 03, 2000).]

I think it is time for a STRICT Plan B IMMEDIATLEY! I read your profile and this is way too much. In and Out for over a year, save yourself anymore GUESSING/WONDERING pain and do PLAN B.

what an a$$.<P>------------------<BR>Prayers & God Bless!<BR>Chris<BR>For relationship info check out <A HREF="http://www.pcisys.net/~chriscal1/resources.html" TARGET=_blank>Marriage & Relationship Resources</A>

Lor:<P>I'm so sorry. I should have guessed this. When they vacillate like this, it seems it's always contact with the OP that's the cause. He just never gets out of withdrawal.<P>I only have one brief comment. I think the only hope you have with him is for him to separate completely with OW, which probably means leaving his job and giving you access to everything - e-mail, voicemail, and his complete schedule. If he's unwilling to do this for you, then you have to look out for yourself, however you choose to define that.<P>I feel terrible about this situation. You deserve so much more after giving so much. I am confident that you will be happy again, it just may take a bit more time.

I have to agree with what Chris said !<P>Sorry.<P> <BR>{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{Lor}}}}}}}}}}}}}}<P>------------------<BR>Just call me - Deb<BR>------------------------<BR>The only day I can do anything about is today, yesterday is gone, tomorrow is not yet mine.<P>

Lor,<P>...don't really know what to say....except that your feelings and response are soooo understandable. Whatever the reason, whatever the excuse....it simply hurts.<P>You have been a terrific wife and mother and his actions take nothing away from your efforts.<P>I'd hoped that his enthusiasm for counseling might be the *glimmer* we've all been waiting for but....at this point, it's just too hard to tell.<P> Sadly, his actions continue to demonstrate his inability to see the outcomes or effects of his actions. <P>My thoughts are with you ! <P>ps. I'd be leaning towards a plan shake-up at this point also... (and you know that takes alot for me to say )<P>-Tina

Ouch, that's gotta hurt, Lor. <P>My first thought is a taste of his own medicine might be interesting...but I realize that's completely against what we learn here. So I withdraw that thought (but...I didn't delete it).<P>You hang in there. You'll be okay; I've got faith in you! We're here.

Lor, <BR>So sorry to hear he is still doing this to you. Plan B may be the best way for you before you lose all the feelings you have for him. I know Plan A is the best way to work on your relationship, but when your love banks are in the red, you need the break from the lies and deceit. It is difficult, but for me, not as hard as having him next to me in bed, making "love" to me, and then the next day calling her and telling her he wished it had been her. (I heard the conversations). It just killed me whenever he would tell me he had not talked to her and then I would find out he had. You must take care of yourself first, then the relationship. Let me know if you need any other help. I have been down this lonely road far too often in the past two years. <P>------------------<BR>Susan<P><BR>

{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{Lor}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}<P>That explains everything ... of course, it still sucks. No wonder he could never commit to the minimum you needed to make the marriage work - perhaps that was the only truth he told you all this time.<P>Don't know if you want advice, but I'll volunteer my thoughts: I don't think that you should do much of anything at all just yet. Now he knows you are aware of how much he's lied to you. Schedule another "emergency" joint counseling appointment. Hash it out with a third party present. Find out from his own mouth - and let him know that at this point, he can't hurt his case by telling the whole truth much more than he already has by lying all this time. Put him on the spot in front of your counselor - and get as much of the truth as you can.<P>If it helps at all, think of Dr. Harley's observations about infidelity: he's addicted. It is, of course, easier for me to give him that much leeway than it is for you at this point. Ask him what he's going to do about this addiction. Tell him that in order for you to even consider taking him back EVER that he will have to follow the Dr. Harley's rules (or whatever rules you may want him to follow) including giving you his entire schedule, contacting you throughout the day to let you know where he is and allowing you to contact him to check up on him, writing a letter for YOU to mail to the OW telling her he is committing to you, his children and his marriage, that he will not speak to her ever again (time for a transfer for the sake of his mental health? Or for HER to get transferred?), that she is not to contact him under any circumstances whatsoever - and that, at this point, if he DOES ALL of these things you cannot guarantee anything more than the fact that you won't kill him ... no, I really don't mean that, but I think you kow what I mean.<P>Didn't you say H is in the service? And that OW is also in the service? I have read other cases where the military has stepped in and actually court-martialled one or both of the participants in an EMA, punishing them by loss of rank, pay downgrades, etc. Maybe it is time to see what the military can do to separate these two once and for all...<P>Now I think I'm rambling... but the most important thing I want to say here is this: If you care anything at all about your friend who is waiting in the wings, DON'T get involved with him now. It will be so unfair for him to suffer the fallout from whatever happens next in your marriage. You are not likely to be in any emotional state for a fair, two-sided relationship for a while, if you are anything like most of us here... don't make your friend pay a price for any of what your husband has been responsible for.<P>:: Where is that d@mn magic wand, anyhow??!!<P>More hugs and prayers to you and your kids, Lor... email/IM me anytime, okay?<P>------------------<BR>terri<BR>I believe in miracles...<P><BR>

Ditto what Chris said....<P>And - I would definitely start something with the military charges of adultery with OW. <P>and, I would also schedule one last counseling appointment before I went to plan B.<P>and - then GO TO PLAN B. QUICK before you have lost everything you had for him.<P>Praying for you Lor. You need to take action NOW.<P>tnt

Lor,<P>I haven't anything to add as I am in the same boat. I do know how you feel if that helps at all. Sorry, I agree with Chris too...and that's probably the same thing he'd say to me about my H.<P>{{{{{{{Lor}}}}}}}

ugh. how horrible for you. wish i could say more.<BR>(((((lor)))))

STARPONY, CHRIS, DEB, TINA RCOASTER, LWB thanks for your hugs, commiserations and insults to my H (I've totally LB'ed & said things a lot worse in the past day--I don't care much about the LBing. )<P>DISTRESSED--My H has given me his work access code & passwords. At this point I don't care enough to snoop. Which in itself is a big change for me.<P>LUCKS--I have a male friend. Never seen/met him outside my store, I no longer email him, but we do talk on the phone. I've referred to him as "T" (temptation). But I don't want to be caught in the white knight OP fantasy crap. Although, when my counselor advised me to go off by myself for a few days, T offered to send me to Mexico...by myself, not with him. I'm obviously not going to take that offer, but the thought of someone doing something nice for me...just blows me away. <P>TRYING2, SUE--if I go Plan B, H will think its so I can be with T. He just doesn't get it that his lying, cheating & walking out on me REPEATEDLY has drained my lovebank. He'd rather blame T and make the end of our marriage my fault. I guess I see that as an indication that even in the future he will probably use any fault of mine as an excuse to take a walk. God, I don't trust him.<P>TERRI--H is sticking with the "it was just this once a month email..." He sent the no contact letter a year ago. She called him and bit his head off...and contact really NEVER ended. I did offer to go firebomb her...(I suppose that was a LB as well? And I did so well for the last 6 months.) I know I can't go from this mess to another relationship, and have told T this. I have too many gut-shot & maladaptive responses to simple things. Too much pain. And too much attraction to my H, even though it isn't at all a healthy relationship.<P>TNT--H will be gone for the weekend...for work...really. so I have some time to think & pray, it feels a bit late to save my feelings for my H. I love him for the 19 years we've had together, physically he is very appealing, but this is not the good guy I married.<P>As for the military thing...he has been talking about getting out and I would support that, but he's not making any moves that way. My H SAYS he loves me and wants to be together for the rest of our lives, but his actions just don't show it. And, at this point, I don't want the authorities to get into it, as my H is probably been the pursuer in much of this and...frankly I don't want him out of a job.<P>I feel a lot of confusion. Do I want to continue to work on the marriage simply because that has been my sole goal for 21 months? Does it just come down to my being stubborn about something that has gone fundamentally bad?<P>He's lied, cheated...and began treating me badly (!) over 2 years ago. I'm beginning to think I am not on the learning curve here. Especially when these pasts few weeks have been supposed to be all about his winning/wooing me back. This email isn't a one time screw-up, it's a long-term attraction to a confused, yet coniving, sleazy, diseased piece of trash.<P>Now, THAT'S a ramble. I'm more than a bit confused myself...<P>Love you guys,<P>Lor<BR>