The question is quite clear...but I just can't understand how my H says that he never loved OW. D-day he said he loved her and wasn't sure about me. Then shortly after (1week) and even now (10mths) he says he never loved her and that he was just being selfish. We were close friends with OW and her H is my H 's nephew (read profile). The affair lasted 18mths, ending on D-day, and was mostly sexual and then emotional. Is this possible? Or is my H trying to keep his feelings from me? I know you can't know what is in his head, but did any of your feelings just die as soon as the disclosure happened? Was it that you may have never truely connected with the OP and it was purely an escape? H has a very difficult time expressing his feelings or at least identifing them and sharing them with others (one reason for the affair). Could it be he still has feelings for OW and won't tell me? So confused. I need to know what I'm up against here. Input Please. Thanks,BECCA

Becca, I asked the same question of my H. He says he never loved her, but I had emails sent to me stating otherwise! To this day he claims that he never was in love with her. After 4 years of lies, cheating and leading a double life, i find that hard to believe that he wasn't in love. I like you wonder if he is trying to protect me from being even more hurt. Boy, wish i could read minds AND HEARTS!

OK, thought I was the only one who had heard this one! Anyhow, within 3 weeks after no contact he looked at me and said he loved me and I told him to never say that again unless he was sure he meant it. He looked at me and said that he was sure he did, that he never really stopped loving me but that he couldn't see it with all the fantasy games he was playing with her. He said he didn't love her and yet I have e-mails where he told her he loved her and it sounded too sincere. I know this should be hurtful but that didn't hurt as much as the realization that he took off his wedding ring when he met her, and she was my "friend" and knew that we were working on the marriage and had been for awhile. It just struck me that he was trying to erase me from his life, like I would actually dissappear from everything. I asked him if he thought the kids and all the other stuff would dissappear if he rubbed me out? Sometimes they just don't get it, that the words I love you and the insignificant ring actually mean something to their spouse and that it was the most hurtful thing he could have done. He told me later that he thinks he was trying to erase the guilt he was carrying when he was with her, the guilt he would blame on the thought of me. I think I believe him, I think he's telling me the truth when he says he never really loved her. I believe him because he was so confused and mixed up then and life can be like that sometimes. God Bless!<P>------------------<BR>Chick's <BR>Bren<P>You won't see things until your ready to not be blind!

Trying & Chick, yah! It wasn't in H's character to do all the hurtful things he did either. Maybe it was all a game and fantasy that removed their normal sense of morals? Either way I'm hoping someone who has been in Hs position will respond. Give us some insight no what they were thinking. Thanks,BECCA

I agree with Becca. I would love to hear something about the things that was going through the betrayer's mind at the time of the affair. <BR>My H was involved in an internet and phone sex affair and he told me he never loved her and that he never stopped loving me. However, he told the OW that he did love her, even in letters, which I have copies of. She told me that he even said once he didn't know why he was doing this, that he loved me and that he "was well taken care of" when it came to sex. <BR>So here is my question. If anyone out there was involved similarly, what kind of thoughts was going through your head at the time you was doing this? Where did your wife fit in? Did you think about her at all, or how this all was going to end? If you say you loved your wife, what kinds of thoughts were going through your head when you were with OP? Or were you so wrapped up in your own needs, that you didn't think at all? I have asked my H repeatedly and get no good responses. Anyone out there have answers?

Ok...as a betrayer I will give my feelings on this subject. The ow that I became involved with I had known for about 14 years. She is in our family, however, I am related only by marriage. We have always talked to each other and really been very good friends. There was never anything physical between us until this past summer. <P>She really began having problems with her husband and began to talk to me about her marriage. As a friend I tried to listen and offer what advice that I could. One day it turned physical and things went a little to far. We never had intercourse but that didn't matter, the damage was already done. I never loved her, never told her that I loved her, never considered leaving my wife for her, and I never want anything further with her. There is one thing that this did for me. The love for my wife grew even deeper that before. I think this was all a part of the guilt I felt for what I had done, but even though the guilt is passing my love for her is stronger than ever.<P>I do not know about long term affairs and how you would feel about the OP, but, I think it is possible to get involved without any strong feelings in the short term. My actions were not a result of a bad relationship between my wife and I. It was a stupid ego trip that I took and emotions had no part in it. The only feelings that I felt for the op were just as a good friend. <P>I hope this helps a little. If you have any other questions that you would like to ask of me, I will be glad to try and answer.<P>FS

Firestorm,<BR>Thanks for your answer. It confirms so much of what my husband has been telling me, and what is happening between us. He doesn't have much self confidence, although he should. He has always been a good man, husband, father, and provider. I think it was how he was raised.<BR>The person he had the "affair" with was a sexually abused young woman who lives in another state. Our connections were strickly internet and telephone, so there was no actual intercourse. We tried to be there for her to vent to (but we never tried to be her counselor, we always encouraged her to continue with her therapy). She called us many times crying over some latest feelings that were surfacing about the abuse, plus she is still going to court over it. She was also having mega health problems, many of them of the feminine nature. In the course of the conversations, many intimate details were discussed. I see now what a volatile situation we placed ourselves in. My husband is a very sensitive man, and I think somewhere in his need to protect her and his desire to make things better for her his feelings of nurture got all mixed up with his feelings as a man. She was always so needy and so pitiful acting. And at times she would flatter my H about how wonderful he was and what a lucky woman I was, what a "babe" he was, etc. Hence, the feeding of his ego and the desire to nurture led him into Satan's age-old trap. He now says he doesn't know what he was thinking, it was like someone else was doing those things as he watched. He is so sorry for what has happened. I think his love for me, as is yours for your W, is stronger than ever. I guess you really don't appreciate what you have until you think you are going to lose it. <BR>Thanks<P>Anymore insights by you or anyone else are greatly appreciated and very helpful to me in my healing process.

Hi Becca,<P>I'm just as confused as you, & I'm still trying to make sense of it all too. I don't think that we will ever be able to fully understand it. Here are just a few thoughts & observations that I have had that are banging around in my head:<P>1. Is it possible to 'love' more than one person at the same time?<P>2. Are there different levels of 'love'?<P>3. Is it possible to confuse infatuation & obsession with love?<P>4. Is it possible that our H's really didn't 'love' either of us? Because in order to love someone else, you need to love yourself first?<P>While my H was deeply involved with his affair, I never felt that he wanted to end our marriage. That's why he took such great pains to hide what he was doing. And, when he was finally caught, his first response was to show deep regret for hurting me. When he decided to move out, he was very tormented & told me he didn't know why he was doing it. My reply was, "Because you love her more." Right away, he fired back, "That's not true. I love you more." He also said stuff to me like, his relationship with her was like an ephemeral stream, wheras the relationship with me was like deep & lasting water. Time & time again I asked him what the attraction was. He could never explain it to me. I know that prior to the affair, & when it was enforce, my husband was having a terrible time with self esteem. He hated himself.<P>Some things we will never understand. So, it's kinda pointless to waste the energy trying. I think that energy would be better invested in learning about our spouses in the here and now and finding out what makes them happy, and satisfied. And learning the skills necessary to tell them what it is we need as well.

Thanks for the replies. <BR>Margret- good questions, they reflect my thoughts too.<BR>Firestorm - your story is so similar to my H's (except it was sexual & longer). It is nice to here your love for your wife was strenghtened as a result of her staying and working to heal. Makes me see how much my H must feel towards me - not good at expressing himself. Are you still friends with the OW and what happened to her husband and/or family due to the affair? H lost his best friend (the nephew) and some family/friends. It has been a difficult lesson for him but mine seems worse,especially since I didn't do anything!<BR>Sidney - it hurts to realize that what H had with OW may have been on it's way to love. It was a beginning that would have most likely ended shortly after they had left the spouses, being it was built on secrets and lie. H sees it as obsession/addition not love now. As for wasteing time on such thoughts... healing is much like the greiving process, in which the steps are never truely missed but linger until dealt with. Part of my healing process is to accept what happened, understand it, learn how to live with the results/consequences, greive the losses, let go of it and eventually forgive all those involved. True, I may never understand it all but until I feel satified I can't move on! During this process we are working hard on our marriage, making new memories and looking to a better future for our family. BUT if I don't resolve these questions (answered or not)I will not feel completely safe. <P>What you have all shared has helped me see this "love" and lack of withdrawl in a different light! Take Care BECCA

Same Becca<BR>The ow woman and I rarely speak to each other. I try to avoid all contact possible since my W and I are trying to work on our marriage. Her husband does not know anything about the affair and they are trying to work on their marriage also.<P>I ended contact with her after discovey. I found out she had lied to me on several occasions about different things (shoe was on the other foot here). We have to see them from time to time but I never speak nor make any kind of eye contact with her. Yes, she was a friend, but not worth risking my marriage trying to keep her as one.<P>fs

I am totally confused with my H the betrayer. He could never say he loved her until he walked out AGAIN a few days ago. He also said he still loves me a little. I thing they are very confused people. This is an interesting topic.<P>Pam

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by sidney:<BR><B>Hi Becca,<P>1. Is it possible to 'love' more than one person at the same time?<P>YES. I think this is often what makes choosing between them so hard. For some, though, the guilt does not let them pull it off. I think that's why I was treated so badly (for the first time in our marriage). And why we hear they never loved us, etc.<P>2. Are there different levels of 'love'?<P>Also yes. My h is a caring person and he was sincerely concerned about hurting OW, at the time more than his concern for me. So there is caring, there is the fantasy (which is not really love) and sometimes it can be more in-loveness if the OW has deposited lots of love units.<P>My h thought he wanted to spend the rest of his life with her, yet when he ended it, he went through some withdrawal, then swore he hardly even remembered what she looked like???<P>3. Is it possible to confuse infatuation & obsession with love?<P>YEs, that's mostly what is happening, I think.<P>4. Is it possible that our H's really didn't 'love' either of us? Because in order to love someone else, you need to love yourself first?<P>I don't agree. Even those, like me, who have struggled with self-image stuff, do "love" ourselves. We all respond to someone who deposits in our love banks.<P>I really believe the I never loved you we hear after or during the affair, is from the confusion and guilt. If they did love us, how could they be hurting us this way? THey protect themselves by believing they never loved us.<P>Add to this, in our case, that we were both seriously neglecting each other so we really forgot what it used to feel like. We weren't fighting, but he was living for his work, and I for my kids. SAD.<P></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>