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#853479 03/08/00 09:00 PM
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Hi Everyone,<P>I just got back from Robin's. I had posted that I was going to break my plan-b because We hadn't discussed our marriage since before x-mas. I wanted to talk about us.<P>My expectations were met. No change in status. I managed to get throug the hour long talk with only a few disrespectful judgements. I committed no other lovebusters.<P>I askd her to try and get honest. I asked point blank if she was happy.....long pause....She said I have peace. She has to be one cold ***** to be able to have peace....I didn't say this of course. I then asked if she had any regrets..and if she could would she make better choices.....she answered in the affirmative on this..She regrets that she didn't tell me that she would leave if I didn't go to counceling.<P>We talked about her lack of romantic love feelings for me. I shared with her the basic concepts of marriage builders. She can't see how to get those feelings back. I explained the love bank, and the four rules for a successful marriage. She understood this but didn't see how it was abtainable. I shared with her four of the success stories from my friends here that I new the details of. She said she didn't hate me and misses our friendship. I said thoat is a good starting point. I share with her somne of the things I have learned about how to be a good husband, and how my peseptions were warped. I told her that I was going to be ok and there was someone out there that will get to experience what a good husband I will be and I hoped it was her.<P>I told her that I wasn't going to wait two years for her. And that I hoped that should she decide to try that it wasn't too late. I said that there are other fish in the sea and fishing is good.<P>The reality of the situation is that she sees na way for her to ever be "in love" with me, that even if LRB were out of the picture she wouldn't want to try and work things out. I told her that no contact was back on after I left there. She asked how long that would last. I said either until you decide to try or we get divorced.<P>The whole time we talked she was constantly wiping tears from her eyes. My voice only broke once.<P>I have to be honest, my respect and feelings of love for her are getting dangerously low. I don't know how much longer I can last before I decide to go fishing. I'm lonely and in desperate need of having my emotional needs met. I told her this.<P>So the bottom line is that I'm back in <BR>plan-band am filing formal seperation papers, that's what she wants so I'll give it to her, along with my filing sole custody.<BR>I told her I loved her, she said it back and I hope she thought things all the way through because she has some tough choices to make. She gave me a huge hug and I left.<P>Opinions?<P>Bill

#853480 03/08/00 09:14 PM
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Bill,<BR>From what you wrote, she sounds like she has so many regrets! If only her head would clear soon! She has no idea what she is giving up! Maybe some of what you said actually sunk in and she'll do a lot of thinking. I hope so!<P>You take care and hang in for as long as you can,<P>(((((HUGS)))))<BR>Mitzi<BR>

#853481 03/08/00 09:14 PM
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{{{{{{{{{{{{{Bill}}}}}}}}}}}}}<P>Congrats on making it THROUGH such a difficult conversation. At least she was a bit more honest with you this time. Back to B is a good idea.<P>You have to take care of you. Follow your instincts and do what FEELS right. <P>You're a good man, Bill. <P>Lori

#853482 03/08/00 09:15 PM
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Bill,<BR> At least she was crying.Why do you think she was crying?That must mean something, although I don't what.My W didn't shed a tear,it was me crying.Perhaps after The Rat leaves her,she may feel differently.What about that huge hug?Feelings for you?Indifference?I'll give you a big hug,but now you can get out of my life?It's hard to know what to believe,isn't it? [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com] --Murph

#853483 03/08/00 09:34 PM
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Bill,<P>No she can't see anyway to make it work because she is still in denial and fantasyland. I am sorry but don't take serious her response that even if she wasn't with LRB she wouldn't come back. I am sure that she said this because she is so deep in this addiction that she can't see life beyond him. Maybe this will start her on the road back to reality. <P> Just be careful right now you are so vunerable. A kind word could set you off on a big mistake. <P>A big hug to you and Abbey. Do go back to plan B and file for sole custody of your darling daughter. Maybe that will be her wake up call. <P><BR>{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{HUGS}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}<P>------------------<BR>di<P>

#853484 03/08/00 09:40 PM
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William J:<P>Hugs to you...<P>Jill

#853485 03/08/00 09:42 PM
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Bill,<P>Please take this reply with all the love and respect I have to offer you. You are filled with many raw emotions. Been there many times myself.<P>Originally posted by WilliamJ:<BR>Hi Everyone,<P>I just got back from Robin's. I had posted that I was going to break my plan-b because We hadn't discussed our marriage since before x-mas. I wanted to talk about us. <B>Excuse to see and talk to her, hey I did it too!</B><P>My expectations were met. No change in status. I managed to get throug the hour long talk with only a few disrespectful judgements. I committed no other lovebusters.<P>I askd her to try and get honest. I asked point blank if she was happy. <B>I would have said that I want you to find happiness in this life, make her think what that is and means with or without you</B> ....long pause....She said I have peace. She has to be one cold ***** to be able to have peace....I didn't say this of course. I then asked if she had any regrets..and if she could would she make better choices.....she answered in the affirmative on this..She regrets that she didn't tell me that she would leave if I didn't go to counceling.<P>We talked about her lack of romantic love feelings for me. I shared with her the basic concepts of marriage builders. She can't see how to get those feelings back. I explained the love bank, and the four rules for a successful marriage. <B>This might be perceived as teaching or educating, they hate that!</B> She understood this but didn't see how it was abtainable. I shared with her four of the success stories from my friends here that I new the details of. She said she didn't hate me and misses our friendship. I said thoat is a good starting point. I share with her somne of the things I have learned about how to be a good husband, and how my peseptions were warped. <B>You have to show her you changed and not tell her</B> I told her that I was going to be ok and there was someone out there that will get to experience what a good husband I will be and I hoped it was her. <B>Sounds like a threat, they don't like that either</B><P>I told her that I wasn't going to wait two years for her. And that I hoped that should she decide to try that it wasn't too late. I said that there are other fish in the sea and fishing is good.<B>Wow deadline and threat!</B><P>The reality of the situation is that she sees na way for her to ever be "in love" with me, that even if LRB were out of the picture she wouldn't want to try and work things out. <B>She is still in fantasyland</B> I told her that no contact was back on after I left there. She asked how long that would last. I said either until you decide to try or we get divorced.<P>The whole time we talked she was constantly wiping tears from her eyes. My voice only broke once. <B>She still cares and there is hope</B><P>I have to be honest, my respect and feelings of love for her are getting dangerously low. I don't know how much longer I can last before I decide to go fishing. <B>You were hurt by the answers given</B> I'm lonely and in desperate need of having my emotional needs met. I told her this.<P>So the bottom line is that I'm back in <BR>plan-band am filing formal seperation papers, that's what she wants so I'll give it to her, along with my filing sole custody. <B>Decision made with anger</B> <BR>I told her I loved her, she said it back and I hope she thought things all the way through because she has some tough choices to make. She gave me a huge hug and I left.<P>Opinions? <B>Wait until your anger subides and are clear headed</B><P>Bill<P><BR>I hope you don't mind but I am being very straight forward with my opinion because I do believe that your marriage can be saved as well. You heard remarks that made your flesh crawl. I would have asked questions that made her think and not have immediate answers available. I am not an expert on marriage, but, I do know what the severe pain of this situation can bring and have made some rather poor moves myself. This time of our lives brings about emotions that have been dormant for so long back to the surface. We hurt, we want relief. Relationships are not that easy. You can't put a gauze and dressing on it and hope it feels better. <P>Sorry, no standard Medic humor here. I really feel for you as if I had gone through it myself.<P>Tim<p>[This message has been edited by MEDIC238 (edited March 08, 2000).]

#853486 03/08/00 09:55 PM
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Bill,<BR>Crying is a <B>GOOD</B> sign. I periodically get the I love you tone in my W's voice. She is not aware that she does this. She even from time to time will joke with me and stuff. <P>Tears are a good thing. There is hope still. Listen to Tim. I have stopped lecturing as much as I can. When she does something good like going back to double entry lines in her checkbook, I had to compliment her but she took it the wrong way because of my lecture tone which I do uncontrollably. Hopefully i will get this under control soon.<P>I am praying for you.<P>MONDO HUG!!!!!!!!<P>------------------<BR><B><I>God Bless,<BR>Rob</I></B><BR> regilmor@swbell.net

#853487 03/08/00 10:01 PM
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Hey WilliamJ,<P>we seem to be going through exactly the same things, at the same time.<P>I've been on Plan B, and doing really well, but again, he won't call at the designated times, so I hear his voice, and then there I go... I have looked into the caller id 'things' and I can't afford one just at the minute. Hopefully next week, I'll get one.<P>I think what everyone has said is true. Our sp. can't see their future, unless this op is in it. But they won't and don't last. My H actually admitted to me this morning that he wanted to MARRY ow #1, (the mad pshcho boil the rabbit woman), but now he sees her for what she is. He said he knows that she twists and warps things around to her advantage, and this is the woman he left me for.!!!! He did say that he made a mistake... Is that an admission of 'anything' do you think?<P>I have no idea where I am going with this conversation with you, suffice to say that my head is still spinning.<P>I do want to say to you that you are doing so well, and I'm so proud of you. No major LB going on, you're looking after you and your D, and you're doing well.<P>As far as wanting a new relationship, or at least some attention and some good feelings, oh boy, can't we all relate to that. We are all human, and what we are going through must be the hardest situation any human being can be put through. I for one, think it is only normal that we want to feel good again, both with ourselves and with someone else. BUT, we must weigh up the consequences of doing that. Aren't I just the one to preach here !!!!!!!!<BR>I for one will support you whatever you decide. You must decide what is right for you. But, personally, I know the love feelings and respect feelings do come back. They have for me. And they were gone. Completely gone. I didn't know how or why they went, and now I don't know how or why they have come back. Does any of this make any sense at all.? (This is obviously in relation to your comment about not having much love or respect for her any longer.)<P>Anyway, the children are not leaving me alone at the moment so I have to go<P>take care of you, and I'm thinking of you. Keep well and strong, and a big hug for you<P>Jo<P>

#853488 03/08/00 10:22 PM
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Mitzi,<BR>For the first time I think some of what I said might sink in.<P><BR>Thanks Lori, Yes back to plan-b. She does know I'm a better man now. I trying to figure out what is right.<P>Murphy,<BR>I think tha they were tears of I'm stuck and can't get out.<P>di,<BR>I wonder about her comming around. This is her exit move. I'm being very careful about my vulnerabilities.<P>Jill,<BR>Thanks.<P>Tim,<BR>I told her from the begining that I was going to say some disrespectful judgement. I've thought long and hard about the seperation stuff. Steve H strongly suggested I do it. I'm not going to get the rod and tackle yet.<P>Rob,<BR>Thanks for your insight. It is amzing how others see what I don't.<P>Jo,<BR>It's tough but I'm still holding the couse and fighting the temptations.<P>Thanks for the hugs everyone I nbeeded them.<P>Bill<P>------------------<BR>BB<BR>

#853489 03/08/00 10:44 PM
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Bill,<P>I understand your feelings very much, lonely etc. I too think the fact that she cried and gave you a hug voluntarily are good signs. I do have to agree with Medic though. It seems as though your attitude was not in the best place if reconciliation is what you want. Is it possible that that attitude, (just a gentle challenge, we all need to grow from where we've been to where we should be) contributed to her affair. I know for a fact that one of my more significant sins, (there were many) was that I disrepected her judgement. It's a tough habit to break. Actually, I'm figuring out as I write this to you, that perhaps she (my W) is so dead set on getting a divorce is to prove to me that she can think for herself, and that she doesn't need me to do her thinking for her. I think I might post that as question.<P>What I hear in your conversation, is that you are still expecting her to change. (I'm telling myself this so just listen a moment). I've realized, and continue to realize that the change that I can control has to do myself.<P>I have in my mind that you are a man of faith, am I right?<P>If that is the case, Bill I wonder if you'd be willing to think about the idea that marriage is a covenant, not a contract.<BR>

#853490 03/08/00 11:00 PM
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bill,<P>Do what is right for you.<P>I just broke down and met with ex. It set my "getting on with my life odometer back to zero.<P>You can't go through it too often.<P>We are inthe exactsame mess at the exact same time. I know how you feel,and we are all here for you.<P>Take Care and God Bless

#853491 03/08/00 11:10 PM
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Repenting,<BR>I think you and medic misconsrtued my actions tonight. I haven't talked to her about us in over 3 months. I educated her in that she does not think she can get those feelings back. I explained how it is possible. She had her cake for 6 months. I needed to let her see me say these things. She did not see it as a love buster. I am a man of faith.<P>JJ,<BR>I'm back to plan-b....ZERO contact.<BR>I don't feel like my odomiter is back to zero.<P>Bill<P>------------------<BR>BB<BR>

#853492 03/08/00 11:16 PM
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Williamj<P>I don't know you but I follow your posts and am now in plan B also. (I did it really soon but was pushed)!!!<P>I kindof agree with Medic's remarks. ANd I think that going back to a strong plan B is important!!!! It is also really hard. I had a babysitter here while my H was here tonight. I went to a movie alone and I cried and it was a comedy!!! I wonder where my life went. <P>But I know Plan B is my only hope for ever having feelings for my h again. I have experienced the most devastating 5 months of my life and believe me I have had enough trauma in my life already! I know there are only 3 outcomes, well maybe 4. <P>1. Not a full plan B, he gets together with op, fantasy fades but we have so much anger we can't rebuild, we each find new relationsho\ips, many families ruined.<P>2. He never wakes up from la-la land until he is old and then regrets the connection with his children and grandchildren.<P>3. I do a solid plan B, he may or may not get together with Op for a short or long time (I actually have a friend whose brother married OP for a year and the original couple still got back together for the rest of their lives. (she never gave up))and when he comes out of his fantasy we can rebuild'<P>4. I do a solid plan B, we never reconcile but I have very fond real memories of my 13 year relationship with H!!! to share with my children and grandchildren!!<P>So solid Plan B!!!!!!<P><BR>

#853493 03/08/00 11:16 PM
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Hi....WOW,<BR>So you got to talk to her in person.....makes it a different story from talking on the phone. Emotions run high when face to face. Phone calls are easier when wanting to disquise your true feelings (or the face your making). From a womans stand point....crying means something. We "feel" bad when we hurt someone.....we cry when we hurt someone we "care" about. We just don't hug anyone....we hug people we feel/felt comfortable with and that we "care" about.<P>Please remember....this is coming from a mental person (me). But I think, ok, I know she still loves you. This goes back to the post on Medics "I love You" topic. She doesn't know how to make it better....doesn't "see" a chance because she has to figure it out for herself....has to come to grips on how. For people like me...it seems so easy....my stbx kind of said the same thing....He told too many people he was getting a Divorce....told too many people "bad" things about me...how can he change that? What will they think? Me...I could care less.....I would just tell them I made a mistake and that I thought long and hard and realized that I still love him and that my marriage and family mean too much to me.....end of the subject. Some people just can't do that. Too hard, easier to run.<P>Told you I was "mental". Probably doesn't even make sense to you.<P>Good luck.....I am sure she is thinking about it all....women do that<BR>Nancy

#853494 03/08/00 11:20 PM
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Claudia,<BR>Yes solid plan-b...I said exactly what I needed to. It is now in Gods hands.<P>Mental,<BR>You made perfect sense. Thank you.<P>Bill<P>------------------<BR>BB<BR>

#853495 03/09/00 10:50 AM
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I wish your wife could see you through OUR eyes...hers are SO clouded!!!<BR>

#853496 03/09/00 12:32 PM
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Bill,<P>I think it sounds like you handled the visit very well. Sure she can be angry at some of it, but at this point, so much has happened anyway. You have a right to say how you feel.<P>I think it does sound like Robyn has regrets and is just not ready yet. For her sake, I can only hope she wakes up before she loses a wonderful person. <P>In the meantime, protect your custody issue and be strong. I know you still love her too, but it sounds like you are getting closer and closer to moving on. <P>I don't know if you have read this book, rebuilding when your relationship ends, I am only in Chapter 3, but I see a lot in this book you can benefit from. Even if the marriage is saved, this book is well worth it. Check it out ,and let me know.<P>Good luck in Plan B (again) and if you feel like going fishing, then trust your feelings. People can only take being hurt and disrespected for so long. I know I did feel much better when I removed H from being the most important thing in my life. I can even see a small part of him starting to regret his decision, whether its the affair dying down, me seeing other people or both, I am not sure. Today I am only worried about ME. <P>Prayers and strength to you, Dana<BR>

#853497 03/09/00 12:33 PM
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Bill,<P>WOW! You really did it.<P>What do I think? I think that perhaps you had some "expectations" that somehow youcould explain it all to her and that she would finally "see the light." Sorry it did not happen.<P>I still believe with all my heart that Robin's relationship with LRB is not sustainable and will definitely crash in time.<P>What is unclear to me is this: Will Robin have waited too long to come back, and you have fallen out of love with her. You know, that is one of the intended effects of PlanB...you eventually fall out of love with your spouse. <P>You are not ready to be with another person, Bill. Believe me, I definitely understand the temptations! Our own needs have been neglected for so very, very long. You still have love for Robin, Bill. Settle one relationship before looking for another, or it will cause you more heartache later.<P>Keep praying. Also, if you are going to file for custody of Abbey, and you are going to use Robin's actions against her, don't give her ANY ammunition to use against YOU! Keep yourself strong if for no other reason than ABBEY!<P>Keep reminding yourself that time heals all wounds..this will resolve one way or another, but more time is needed, my impatient little friend. It took me 13 months to get to the beginnings of resolution.<P>Prayers and hugs...Desiree<P><P>------------------<BR>"Life is made up, not of great sacrifices or duties, but of little things in which smiles and kindnesses and small obligations, given habitually, are what win and preserve the heart and secure comfort."<P>Sir Humphry Davy<BR>

#853498 03/09/00 12:50 PM
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OK Bill,<P>You already know what I think about this, and her responses to you CONFIRM it in my mind. She's still blinded, but if the situation took a drastic change she'd be back with you in a heartbeat - I know it.<P>She regrets not sending you to counseling, she misses your friendship, she doesn't like the No Contact rule of Plan B, she's crying through all this, etc......... This lady loves you Bill, and like many of our spouses in the midst of a rabid affair, she can't see through the cloud to remember that. To her, the cloud of OB is a permanent wall. But he's a kid, and kids move on with their lives eventually. He'll make a mistake, and she'll try to come back.<P>Yes, you have to move on for you and your daughter. But I firmly believe that Time will work in your favor, with Robin, as a family, if you choose.<P>I keep praying.<P>SamH

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