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#863239 04/18/00 10:43 AM
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I am 46 years old, and have been married to my wife for 26 years. I've had a problem with pornography since I was 14. This has caused many problems in my marriage(obvious at least now). We started marriage counseling about 1 year ago. I've been trying real hard since then to give it up. So far I'm able to go 2 or 3 months at a time before a brief relapse(1 or 2 days). Does anyone out there know of resources for dealing with this problem? Any helpful ideas would be greatly appreciated! This is driving my poor wife crazy as I keep promising to be good and then slip. I really need to get over this not only for my wife and our marriage, but also for my own self-esteem. It is unbelievably painful each time I have to make an admission to her, but at least I am on track on the honesty part.

#863240 04/18/00 11:06 AM
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<small>[ February 27, 2005, 08:25 PM: Message edited by: hanora ]</small>

#863241 04/19/00 12:40 AM
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I am having much of the same problem with my H. And although I can't tell you what to do about your addiction, I can tell you how it makes a woman feel.<P>In my case, I often feel very insecure about my own body and the way that I perform for him. Afterall, in my own perception... if I were good enough, then he wouldn't need porn!<P>Pornography, is not what real women are like. At least not most women. And when a man enjoys looking at these things... it causes a lot of insecurity for us. The way that men admire and pardon my terminology but drool over these women.... is basically the way we want our men to see us. To feel that kind of appreciation for our beauty is a HUGE compliment but to admire another even on paper is an insult to us.<P>Perhaps, it shouldn't be that way but it is, and I beleive this to be true for many women, including myself.<P>I do know that when my H isn't looking at porn... that he looks at me in a different way. A more appreciative, admiring, complimenting and loving way. But when he looks at porn... he doesn't look at me that way at all. It is a more tolerable and accepting however not completely admiring look instead.<P>To prove my point just think about this for a second....<P>Do you not enjoy a woman showing you attention and admiration for your physical appearances? Do you not enjoy the feeling you have when a woman looks at you and says how handsome you look {with that sultry look}? Of course you do, but so do we. And there is no way that most women could ever compare to the pictures in Playboy or the Pictures on these internet sites. And we know it!<P>So... there ya go. It seems like to me that you should take some of that into consideration and perhaps focus your energies on complimenting your W and making her feel like she is the best looking woman in the world to you. That is a H*U*G*E confidence builder and will help her overcome the insecurities that she has been feeling, I'm sure.<P>Good Luck to you.... Have fun with your wife, enjoy her sexuality and in time you both should be able to fill the time you spend with porno by having fun with your W. That would be much more fulfilling don't you think?<P>Genie

#863242 04/18/00 01:30 PM
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Thanks Genie!!!<P>I believe that I understand at least intellectually everything that you said. Your commentary is almost word for word what my wife has been saying since we started into marriage counseling. Prior to marriage counseling she was an active participant in the pornography thing so that SHE COULD BE PART OF IT. On many occasions she was even the instigator of using pornography together.<BR>She did this, I believe, because she more or less thought the problem was uncurable and this was her only solution to not be left out. During this long(25 years) phase of our marriage I did not understand the pain this was causing her!?! I may be a bit thick headed but I just didn't GET IT! I do know and understand now, and am truly trying very, very hard to leave this behind me. My problem lies in 32 years of having this pattern of resolving anxiety, loneliness or tension by using pornography. This is further compounded by the fact that I had an incredibly strict religious upbringing and have always had HUGE guilt about the whole thing. This has made it very difficult for my wife to talk to me about this subject as my own guilt tends to make me withdraw or become angry. Making the overall environment even more difficult is that fact that in response to my problem she has had 4 affairs over the last 21 years. One of these, the first one, I knew about before marriage counseling, the other 3 I found out about in January. The first one I knew about because she and Bill(my ex-best friend) confronted me and asked for a divorce so they could get married. What a way to find out!!! By the way in the initial 2 months after this shocking revelation Marie(Bill's wife) and I did have sex on 3 occasions as a revenge/make ourselves feel better thing, but there was no real attraction or emotional relationship there(and my wife was told about this at the time, what good is revenge if they don't know). Another thing that I did not know until January 2000 was that her relationship with Bill went on for 2 years after I thought that is was over and we were back together. Her other 3 affairs were a one night stand in 1984 with a guy she dated when we were separated for one month in 1983, a phone sex relationship with a work client in 1994, and another 3 year relationship with another of my so-called friends from 1996 to 1999. What I really need help with is breaking the old pattern of using pornography for anxiety management and recently revenge. I REALLY AM going to break this habit, but I'm finding that I need HELP!

#863243 04/18/00 03:02 PM
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Sadboy,<P>I read your post and I have to congratulate you on you willingness and honesty to deal with this porn issue. Since this has gone on for so long and you have tried to stop but have fallen again you may have an addiction to this. There are many sites as was suggested to help you understand more about this. Here are some you may want to check out: <A HREF="http://www.sexaddictionhelp.com" TARGET=_blank>www.sexaddictionhelp.com</A> <P> <A HREF="http://www.sexaddict.com" TARGET=_blank>www.sexaddict.com</A> <P> <A HREF="http://www.christians-in-recovery.org" TARGET=_blank>www.christians-in-recovery.org</A> <P> <A HREF="http://www.sanon.org" TARGET=_blank>www.sanon.org</A> <P> <A HREF="http://www.geocities.com/~newlifemn/" TARGET=_blank>www.geocities.com/~newlifemn/</A> <P>Just to name a few. There are many more as you begin your search. My H is addicted to porn and finally said out loud that he is addicted. But he is still reluctant a bit to honestly face it. He has had this problem ever since we have been married, which is a little over seven years now. It is extremely difficult to deal with especially when your SO has been unfaithful and everything Genie29 described as far as how it makes us wives feel is very true. It is suprising to see just how many out there have the same problem. My H said he wants to get better and I know he needs my help in this. And believe me I want to help in any way I can. We both have to learn just what is required in the recovery process in order to handle this correctly. I think because of his shame and embarrassement on this subject he is not that willing to seek outside counciling. At least not yet anyway. The first big step was getting him to admit it. Now he wants to know, like you, just what he can do to keep from having those feelings to view the porn.<BR>It's true that when he does this he is not as affectionate or considerate of me like he is when he doesn't have the porn. He has tried many times to stay away from it but always goes back. Even though he knows how damaging it is to us both. And, not to mention the pain it has caused. <P>I sincerely hope you can have success with overcoming this need. My H also suffers from anxiety and perhaps uses this as a way to deal or rather hide from what is really troubling him. He keeps saying it is just a curiousity, but when that curiousity becomes such an activity that takes away from being intimate and connected with your partner and also interferes with the growth of your marriage then it is a problem that both must face. Not to mention the infidelity. I am sorry for what you and your wife have gone through, but I truly believe that if two people love each other enough they can overcome any obsticle. And don't forget the religious side, Prayer can heal and does.<BR>My H use to be so involved with his faith but has let that fall by the wayside through the years. <P>I realize none of this is going to be easy but with understanding, honesty and a willingness to commit to recovery your marriage can get better. And I believe that is so in my marriage as well. I think deep down my H wonders just when I will give up on him and walk away. And believe me, I have thought about that, but deep down I know in my heart that I love this man more than words could properly express. And yes, I get down at times and feel so helpless, but I believe it is the tremendous love I have for this man that keeps me going and not giving up the hope of having the best marriage possible with him. I love being his wife and he is a good person who has let his fears and past baggage consume him to the point where he blocks it out and thus uses an activity like the porn to escape. None of us can run forever. <P>I didn't mean to type such a long response, sorry if your eyes are getting tired. But keep the faith and stay the course. You both can get through this, with patience and love,<BR>as well as the other elements I mentioned earlier. My prayers go out to you and your W. Good luck and keep us posted on how you both are doing.

#863244 04/18/00 04:48 PM
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Thank you devastated2 for all the links! I really appreciate them. My wife and I had a marriage that was really in the state of withdrawal more or less all of the time from time she and Bill made their announcement in 1980 until 1999(to show you the underlying strength of our relationship, it was only just a few hours after their announcement until she decided to stay with me, Bill was devastated especially since the announcement did cause the end of his marriage). I more or less thought things were kind of flat, but we didn't fight much, enjoyed our 2 children, and had a pretty good sex life. I think that I more or less had my MLC early in 1999 and told my wife that I needed alot more intimacy or that my time in life was starting to run out and that if she couldn't give me more intimacy we should think about moving on without each other. At this point, she was thrilled(who would have guessed) and we started marriage counseling. At this point I also started praying again for the first time since I was a young teenager. Our relationship has really blossomed since then and my pornography addiction and her affairs are the last big items that we are trying to resolve. At times resentment gets really high on both sides, but we really have a much better relationship now that at anytime in our marriage since the first year.<P>I will say a prayer for you and your H! He does really need to come to terms with his addiction since you can't really work on something that you won't admit exists.

#863245 04/18/00 08:12 PM
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Sadboy,<P>Yeah, resentment is a big issue for me at times and I do the best I can to work it out on my own with writing my feelings down until I calm down and analyze my resentment. The whys, how to best deal with it and what is the best approach to inform my H on how I'm feeling. <P>I admit I sometimes do not do it very well and the emotions caused by the resentment get in the way. Okay, I LB and then things calm down and then we talk more rationally. I guess a lot of this is I am a very passionate person about life in general and show my emotions instead of hiding them. <P>Glad to hear that you and your W are committing yourselves to working on your marriage. You have both been through a lot of pain and now is the time to begin to heal.<BR>Keep saying those prayers. Even if you don't get immediate results you will get results when the time is right. And the two of you must have something special or neither of you would still be in this together. <P>I hope the addiction sites help and give you both insights to this. My H has yet to look through any of these sites and I don't want to force the issue on him. I did tell him that this is something he has to decide to do for himself. Like the ole saying goes: You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink. I have the sites when he is ready to learn. I just pray it is sooner than later. <P>Things between us are calm and no upsets at the moment. We are getting along and I recently bought one of Dr. Harley's books, His Needs/Her Needs and am currently reading it. My H says when I am finished he will read it also. I am not into this book very far yet so I will refrain from making a comment until I am done with it. But I am interested in finding more of his books. Also, I looked at a bookstore for books on sexual and porn addiction but found none. There are all kinds of books there on everything else but what I wanted. However, one of the site I gave you it does list some books on this kind of addiction and I am thinking about ordering from the net if I am unable to find them anywhere else. I do know some things about addiction since my brother is an alcoholic. He has been sober for over three years but before that many years was spent with going through the agony addiction can affect on everyone who cares about the one addicted.<BR>In plain english, it was pure hell. <P>And his recovery not only has been a Godsend for him but the rest of the family as well.<BR>Addiction wrecks havoc on the lives of those in the throws of it and those who love them.<BR>And I never thought I would have to face this problem again after my brother. And yes, it is hard and takes it toll at times because this time it is much closer to me. It involves the man I love and want to be with the rest of my life. Not to mention how it has affected my self-esteem, confidence as a desirable woman and all. Especially when I have always been willing to please him in every way and have never refused his sexual advances. He is the one who has refused me.<BR>Now I know why. <P>The best of luck to you and your wife in finding out just how wonderful a marriage can be. I truly believe that marriage doesn't have to be drudgery and something we just exist in. It can be a constant discovery of wonderment as long as we don't forget to appreciate each other for who we are and share with each other. Helping each to grow and become the best we can be as individuals as well as partners. <P>

#863246 04/18/00 08:17 PM
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Sadboy,<P>I forgot to say, Thank you for the prayers.<BR>The more the better. Strength in numbers ya know. Not to mention the power it has. I do believe that. Many things have been accomplished through prayer.

#863247 04/24/00 09:36 AM
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Dear Sadboy and Devastated2,<P>I appreciated your dialog. Your words were very encouraging to me. It took my W leaving almost 6 months ago for me to recognize myself as a sex addict. I knew I had a problem, but honestly felt that it was related to a lack of intimacy from my W. I still believe there is some truth to that, however, it is no excuse for my behavior. I've since learned that I have not known how to tell her that I needed intimacy in our relationship.<P>Regardless, my experience with pornography started at around 11 years old. I also became an unwitting acompliss to my mothers affairs at the same age. I read a book by Patrick Carnes, Out of the Shadows and recognized my W as the co-addict, then recognized myself.<P>I'm now involved in a 12 step group and counseling. Another good book is titled Facing Shame. It really showed my how my addiction is a response to beliefs that I've had about myself.<P>The shame in sexual addiction is so great, that it is incredibly difficult to talk about. I applaud you Sadboy for your honestly talking with your W when you do "act out". That was my biggest downfall. However, I never felt safe to talk about it either. I applaud you Devastated2 for sticking in there with Him. Another book you both might appreciate is An Affair of the Mind, by Laurie Hall.<P>I'm reading it now, and it does the best job I've seen in describing the pain from the wifes point of view as well as a tremendous example of committment.<P>I'm hoping that my W will see that others have lived through this and that we can have a more intimate relationship with trust and fidelity, if she would just give us a try again.<P>My faith in God has been my only strength through this. Prayer and trust can win, we must believe that.<P>God bless you,<P>Repenting

#863248 04/24/00 03:51 PM
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I just wanted to thank all of you for your helpful hints and links. 'Out of the Shadows' and 'An Affair of the Mind' just arrived today and I'm looking forward to reading them. I'm 25 days out since my last brief relapse and feeling very strong this time. Pray for me to have the strength to make it all the way this time. Repenting, it is great to hear of the experiences of another sufferer of this terrible disease.

#863249 04/24/00 04:27 PM
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Sadboy and Repenting,<BR>Thank you for your open dialogue.<BR>I am also the wife of a man addicted to pornography and I can reiterate the hurt described by Genie and Devestated!<P>An affair of the mind is an excellent book, and if I remember correctly-it had some resources to contact in the back of book.<P>I would also like to add that my husband's addiction has also taken a toll on our marriage---<BR>1) he spends a lot of time in fantasy land---staring into space----when I know that he is "with" someone else. <BR>2)It seems he can no longer reach orgasm through normal means---it seems only hand stimulation works<BR>3)He is impotent---which makes me feel like I am the least desirable person on earth.<BR>Words, pictures, computers, internet babes---- these are his drug of choice. <P>I apologize for being graphic, but was wondering if you feel this is normal behavior for pornography addiction?<BR>I am to the point that I no longer wish to compete with the fantasy. There must be someone out there who would appreciate THE REAL THING.

#863250 04/25/00 08:56 AM
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My prayers go out to you GodAlone. Hopefully some comfort will come your way. It sounds like(to me at least) that your husbands addiction is in the terminal last stages. I believe that he will need professional help to overcome his addiction, since it has completely captured and controlled his sexuality. To all those reading this I can't stress enough the power of both prayer and honesty in dealing with this issue. Porn is a very, very powerful addiction and help from a higher source is almost always needed to break this. Honesty is extremely important both from the standpoint of having your spouse know who you really are, and as a strong force in helping you resist. Since each revelation is extremely painful and full of shame and guilt and in my case a near divorce event, the honesty goes a really long way in keeping you on track.

#863251 04/25/00 03:56 PM
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sadboy,<BR>My husband and I are recovering from his long time addiction addiction to pornography.<BR>Along with several emotional affairs, it almost destroyed our marriage. <P>BTW...my husband is 50 and his addiction started like yours--when he was 12. It became a far more serious addiction when pornography became available through the computor and then the internet. <P>I've read Affair of the Mind and I'm familiar with Patrick Carnes work. I've also read Faithful and True....the author counseled with Patrick Carnes. <P>But, although these books were informative, I found the strategies suggested to be<BR>inneffective in curbing my husband's addiction. I don't believe there is such a thing as a co-addict....the label suggests that the spouse is just as addicted to <BR>the situation as the person who has a sexual addiction or an addiction to pornography.<P>The fact is that the wife of a man who is addicted to pornography is dependant on a<BR>man who is undependable and can't be there for her because of his addiction. That can be extremely painful to a wife, and I don't know of anyone who becomes addicted to pain<BR>(unless of course you enjoy pain and I don't think many of us do) But I don't want to get into all of that now.<P>What I do want to say is that I found the MB<BR>principles far more effective in overcoming my husbands addiction than anything else or anyone else I talked to (including a number of pastors, counselors, the author of Faithful and True and a therapist who runs a treatment program who told me that if I didn't get my husband in her treatment program--for the cost of $3000--he would end up back into pornography and this time it would be worse. That was 2 years ago and that hasn't happened)Most of what I read or what advise we were given only made the problem worse not better. <P>The best plan is this: Follow the Rule of Honesty, the Policy of Joint Agreement,<BR>spend all of your liesure time with your spouse, and either get rid of your computor or let your wife put in the pass word without telling you what it is (my husband made me promise him that I would never let him know what the password is) and don't get on the internet unless the two of you are together. Then put the rest of the MB principles into place. Okay?<P>My husband just suggested that you also put your computor in a room where it is clearly visable and can't be used privatly. RWD also<BR>suggested to somone else that you try Integrety internet service if it is important to you to have internet service.<BR>(then you can still post on the forum & get support here)<P>My husband also knows that I regularly check the History etc just to make sure he doesn't slip. He also knows that I've become a very good spy (sorry but I disagree with Lory Hall's suggestion that a wife respect her husband's "privacy" and not spy on him. Marriage is no place for privacy....unless of course you don't want your spouse to know what you are up to and I'm sure you guys know why you wouldn't want your wife to know what you are up to.)<P>It would also help if you would take a tranquilizer (welbutrin is one of the best)<BR>while you are going through withdrawal...<BR>we didn't do that and I wish we had.<P>I believe that the MB principles work because they are more consistant with God's word than anything I have read or heard from others. <P>Keep on posting here Okay? It is the best place to be.<P>CJ<BR> <P>------------------<BR>Psalm 42<p>[This message has been edited by CJB80 (edited April 25, 2000).]

#863252 04/26/00 03:28 AM
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Thanks so much Devastated 2 for all the web sites. I didn't know there are so many sites to help the addicted & even the hurt spouse. I've just posted my sad tale under General Q - Hurt by Dishonesty - jogs. I'm very hurt now. H hasn't admitted yet, or even want to talk about it. That's the worst part. Anyway will try the websites recommended. <P>------------------<BR>


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