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#869285 06/01/00 11:59 PM
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My wife got married and had a child really young. That marriage ended very bitterly, with the man stalking her, threatening to kill her, and taking the child away. Her daughter has had some emotional problems ever since. As a result, my wife said she never wanted to have any more children. Too painful. Too risky.<P>I married her knowing this, but thought that she would change her mind. I was in the military for a while, and she said she would "think about" having kids once I got out. Well, when I got out, it was still no.<P>She had all kinds of stupid excuses. She was too old (she's 32!). She said we weren't secure enough (we are financially ok). She said she wanted me to be around more (I was home every night). I know she's had some physical problems. She has used that as an excuse too, but she could have at least tried.<P>Tons of women are dying to have kids with me and be the wife I wish she was. Why can't she just do what she's supposed to do if she says she loves me so much? <P>Now that we are separated, she says she would consider having kids! She said that our separation makes her see how valuable family is! What?! She was so adamant about having the perfect family for a child and now that our marriage is over, she wants to have a kid? With who?<P>Anyway, I want to have children. I don't want to just have any children, but to have a family. I am afraid that that will never be possible with her because she is lying to make me stay. What if she really can't have kids and I waste all this time trying to fix the relationship and still don't have any kids? What if we do have kids and then I am stuck in a relationship that isn't happy? Should I just go out and find another woman who doesn't have these hang ups?<P>All this stuff is weighing heavy on my mind because our divorce is coming up. I have so many conflicting thoughts. Can someone help?

#869286 06/01/00 12:26 PM
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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by poorme:<BR><B><BR>Tons of women are dying to have kids with me and be the wife I wish she was. Why can't she just do what she's supposed to do if she says she loves me so much? <BR></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>It would be too funny if said in another context. But let me see if I got this: you've had several affairs, broken your promises to this woman, and you want her to give you kids???<P>On another thread you said you deserve to be happy. Why? How have you deserved it???<P><p>[This message has been edited by schizzo (edited June 01, 2000).]

#869287 06/01/00 12:31 PM
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YOU DEFINITELY NEED HELP! HOW OLD ARE YOU? You sound like the most selfish CHILD that I have ever seen in this forum. You have the nerve to say "Why doesn't she just do what she's supposed to do if she loves me so much"? Why didn't you do what you were supposed to do as a husband, and a grown man. Everything you have said is ME, ME, ME! Maybe your wife is tired of everything being about you. Maybe she realized that if she had a baby then she would have 2 CHILDREN to emotionally feed. You really sound like a either a spoiled, selfish brat or a Narcissistic personality and you really need a psyciatrist, because everyone else is to blame for EVERYTHING that has ever gone wrong in your marriage and that is all you see. You picked the perfect name for yourself.<p>[This message has been edited by trying2_4give (edited June 01, 2000).]

#869288 06/01/00 01:00 PM
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this cannot be a real poster....? <BR>

#869289 06/01/00 01:04 PM
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i had the same thoughts cl.

#869290 06/01/00 01:15 PM
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Poorme,<BR>On some talk show the other day a professional said we don't have any classes on marriage or relationships when growing up in this country. I disagree. By the time we leave home, we've had an 18 year example of marriage - our parents. But we still, most of us, anyway, have the intellegence to be able to make decisions that are different from the examples taught to us.<P>So, without blaming your parents, what was your childhood like?<P>It appears from your posts that you have trouble feeling empathy for other people (namely your W), and I don't think you fully understand what God intended marriage to be.<P>I understand from your posts that you have been a good provider. My H was and continues to be a very hard working provider, and most of our 19 years together he was the sole provider. When we needed for me to get a job I let him know daily how upset that made me, but I didn't talk to him about it, I screamed, threw fits, cried... I was a b*&$% to live with then. I thought if I just let him know how miserable I was he could "fix" it. But a guys "job" in life is not to simply provide finances for the family. God intended for the man to be the head of the family, to manage all the areas, including the emotional needs of his W. (The W, in turn is to be his helper, in whatever he needs - and I should have been willing to get a paying job) You need to read between the lines and with prayer with the family, figure out how you can help.<P>I am concerned that you said what if you waste all this time trying to fix the relationship & still don't have kids. Even if you don't believe in marriage in the biblical sense, having a relationship just to get kids is wrong. Surely you are smart enough to understand that. She's already had one child with someone who didn't have a good value of other people, and now you're asking her for another.<P>You came to MB, expecting what? You've set off some normally calm & very nice people who have flamed you, and yet you come back. Is there hope for you? Are you willing to change? <P>------------------<BR>Kallie (Hope should be my middle name smile )

#869291 06/01/00 01:32 PM
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Poorme,<P>You can't be for real. Is this post some sort of a test or joke???<P>Jo

#869292 06/01/00 01:35 PM
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Kallie, I'm not flaming anybody.<P>First, I want clarification, I don't get it.<P>Second, why does poorme or anyone else deserve happiness is a serious question. The Constitution guarantees the right to the pursuit of happiness. Why do so many people have the idea that we deserve to have it handed to us on a silver platter just because???<P>that some people deserve special treatment because other people that none of us knew were mistreated centuries ago.<P>that we deserve special treatment in the job market because of our sex.<P>that we had a tragic childhood (I did) so now we deserve to be happy regardless of what we do.<P>or maybe that it's just because I'm worth it (like the commercial).<P>I think deserved and earned are pretty close synonyms. It was an honest question, why does poorme think he deserves to be happy, have children, etc.??<P>Off the immediate subject - but my heart really goes out to the children as I read post after post. Whether betrayer or betrayed, we are living out the results of our own decisions as adults; their pain is real and outside of their control.<P>If anyone "deserves" happiness without having actually done the right things to get there it is the children.<p>[This message has been edited by schizzo (edited June 01, 2000).]

#869293 06/01/00 01:44 PM
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Well, not to jump on the band wagon here.. but...<P>What do you mean.. do what she is supposed to do? Do you have a manual that you are referring to? There is no set guidelines on what a husband an wife should do for each other. She, apparently made it clear to you when you married her that she was not interested in having kids and you married her anyway. While I can understand your hope that she would change her mind it was wrong of you to marry thinking she would change her mind... I hope that you can see that we marry people as they are, not as we want them to be. when someone takes a clear stand on an issue pre-marriage, than the partner has to accept that.. <BR>Next point: she is now saying that she will try to have a child with you... why are you assuming that she is telling you a lie. It could simply be that she has now accepted the fact that having a child is very important to you.. not just all talk and she has also processed through her issues and realized that she wants another child as well. Also, you complain about not knowing if she can have a child... wellhow do you know you don't have fertility problems? Or, how do you know that whatever woman out there that you marry next won't have a fertility problem.... There are no guarantees in life!!! I hope that you are seeing a counselor to help you through these issues. I do not blame you for wanting a family, I have two beautiful children who are the light of my life... but I was not ready to have children for many years... having children is not something that should be pushed on you. They are a lot of work and young children will put a lot of strain on a marriage, it takes a tough and committed marriage to survive through the early years of a marriage...so, if you do get back together with her make sure things are really stable between you two before you rush into having kids. They are a lot of work (well worth it in my opinion)... the last thing you will want is to have a kid and then have your marriage crumble around you!<BR>

#869294 06/01/00 01:44 PM
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You know, maybe I have come to the wrong place. I should have known better than to try to get some honest feedback here. You are all perfect and have done everything right, right? <P>I am just trying to do the right thing and be happy. I know what I want kids. I know I am a good man. I can have my pick of many women. I am a good provider. I just want someone who is going to respect me and someone I can be happy with. I am sure you all want the same. And what is wrong with that?<P>My childhood was fine, thanks. <P>Forget I asked.

#869295 06/01/00 01:57 PM
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Poorme, if you honestly think we are all going to tell you that you are right, then yes, you've come to the wrong place. <P>Schizzo, I did not mean that you have flamed anyone. Yes, the questions you asked are good. Maybe I misused the word. <P>I wonder what "honest feedback" means to poorme.<P>

#869296 06/01/00 02:17 PM
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what a welcome...!!... [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]<P>thank goodness I have been at Mb for 7 months and realize that this is not the general tone of topics.....<P>this man has a problem....he came here for help....<P>well, some us don't appreciate the 'tone', or the 'attitude' that seems to come through the post...<P>poorme, I think perhaps you have come across as a 'tad' arrogant...<P>the 'you could have your pick of women' and 'tons of women are dying to be with you and have kids with you' attitude could be perceived as derogatory towards your wife...it comes across as rude....crass....<P>if you could have any pick, and constantly state the fact, then why should we believe you have respect for your wife??...<P>if I understand, part of your prob stems from the fact that you suspect she maybe unable to have childreen and may be lying to you...<P>you have not stated why you are seperated...or why your wife now wants you back and sudenly wants kids...<P>do you love your wife ?<P>nowhere in your post do you actually discuss feelings of any kind for your wife....<P>if it would be so easy for you to find a 'replacement',perhaps you should re-evaluate yourself as a husband and a man...<P>there are alot of opinions as well as genuine good insight on this board...even if some of us don't like whatwe'read' in a post...it is still important to remember thatwe are all himan beings and thateven if someone isn't expressing themselves in a manner thatwe 'like', perhaps they don't yet know how...we need to be a little more tolerant here, I have noticed lately....<P>regardless of the tone of this post, this guy has a marital problem...we maybe able to help him see his probs, and perhaps to help him make some changes within...but we certainly will accomplish nothing by scaring away individuals who come here for help...<P><BR>Dylan<P>------------------<BR>"The journey into darkness has been long and cruel, and you have gone deep into it."<BR>~ A Course in Miracles

#869297 06/01/00 02:18 PM
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Poorme:<P>You're getting plenty of honest feedback here. From your two posts, you come across as pure "Taker"---me, me, me. Or in non-Harley terms, you come across as an immature, self-centered little man with not one clue as how to make a marriage work (which is OK---if you're here to get a clue).<P>I'd suggest that if you're really interested in trying to work through your marriage one more time, that you try the phone counseling here at MarriageBuilders. You'd probably like it---it's a very "no-nonsense", results-oriented approach. It does require behavior-modifications, of which you'd need to take seriously. But you could be very successful with this. I'd urge you to call them (888-639-1639).<P>You list your good attributes: you're a good provider, and you like children. But you're also a serial cheater, a liar, and someone who has a very difficult time seeing other's points-of-view. Although your wife is bringing some issues to this marriage, you need to share in the responsibility. I'd suggest that you're not quite the "gem" you think you are---it wouldn't hurt you at all to polish up your marriage skills with Harley's counseling.

#869298 06/01/00 02:34 PM
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Soulless, this is not Poorme's first post. He made it quite clear how he felt for his wife. "SOMETIME's he wants to get back together with her" etc. And how can we forget the "I told her that if she ever changed on me or stopped having sex with me (she didn't actually stop, but it wasn't very warm and fun anymore) that I would go out and do this, and I did". <BR>I was totally honest in my post and still stand by it. Some may agree, some may not, he wanted honest feedback and he got it, why sugar coat it, Poorme certainly didn't.

#869299 06/01/00 02:49 PM
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I just did a search and read poorme's first post....<P>I now understand..... [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]<P>poorme, listen to k....get counselling....and consider yourself lucky that she is comtemplating a reconciliation..<P><BR>Dylan<P><P>------------------<BR>"The journey into darkness has been long and cruel, and you have gone deep into it."<BR>~ A Course in Miracles

#869300 06/01/00 03:48 PM
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Poorme - Actually, your wife's the one that should be saying "Poor Me" for being married to someone who obviously doesn't love her, but only wants to use her body for procreation, to create a "family" for his own ego gratification, not because of his love for her!!<P>I can really relate to this - my Ex-H did the same thing to me - emotionally blackmailed me, withheld sex, treated me with contempt because I was not obssessed with having a child. He is sterile, and after running up our debt so high that we could not afford other options, he left me for another woman who already had a child so that he could play "Daddy". The destructiveness of his behavior is unestimable. He says he is happy now - maybe you should should try the same tack, and save your wife a lot of heartache. If you don't want a child because you love your wife and want to share this undertaking with her (and not just anyone who is willing) then do her a favor and divorce her. I cannot begin to tell you the heartache I have endured at the hands of a husband who did not love me, but pressured me to sell our home, move into a small apartment, and basically give up everything, so that we could adopt a child at age 40, when it was more than apparent that this was not an undertaking that had a good chance of succeeding. His selfishness was and is, appalling. I could not bring myself to sacrifice everything I worked for for almost 20 years to obtain a child for a man who did not love me. His desire for a child was for his own ego gratification, to do what was "expected" and to please his mother, who is child-obssessed, not because of any love he had for me. This is the most insulting thing that I can think of to do to your spouse. To "use" them to get what you want for yourself, with no regard to their feelings and what effect it will have on them. You need to grow up!! Perhaps you should divorce your wife and adopt as a single parent - your obviously have no use for marriage, or have what it takes to treat a wife with the love, respect and caring she deserves.<P>I am now divorced and finally glad (it took me three years to get to that point) to be free of a man who became a tyrant in the service of his own needs and wants. I loved him with all my heart, but he did not love me, refused to participate in our marriage, and then dumped me like trash he no longer had use for when he saw a chance to get what he believed would make him "happy". Your wife deserves better than this. Sorry to be so harsh, but after everything I have been through, I cannot stand to see someone else subjected to the hell that I have gone through.

#869301 06/01/00 04:00 PM
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So, are you guys just here to find someone you can feel superior to? I haven't said anything that a thousand other guys haven't thought. The other betrayers here are just like me and your all fighting to get back with them, so we can't be too bad.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by soulloss:<BR><B>if I understand, part of your prob stems from the fact that you suspect she maybe unable to have childreen and may be lying to you...<P>you have not stated why you are seperated...or why your wife now wants you back and sudenly wants kids...<BR></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>My wife has scar tissue from untreated and undiagnosed STDs from her first marriage which apparently progressed to a pretty serious thing. We don't know if it is enough to make her infertile, but she does have some blockage. This much is true. <P>What I meant about her lying is that she could be lying about WANTING to have a child now. Maybe she is just saying that to get me back. Maybe she CAN get pregnant, but will tell me that she can't and will keep using birth control.<P>We separated because we weren't getting along. She said we needed "space". She filed divorce papers when she found out about the affairs.<P>I don't know if she wants to get back together or not. Sometimes she acts like it. She tells me that she loves me, but she isn't really pursuing a reconciliation. She's still pushing the divorce in my face.<P>She asked me to move back in once to give it one more try. She said then that she'd do anything to make it work including having a baby, but not right away. She said she would consider having a child now because the separation has brought her closer to her family and made her realize what is important in life. I don't know if I believe that though. All these years she wanted perfection and now when we are on the verge of disaster, she says she wants a child. Yeah, right.<P>For the person who suggested I had a bad childhood, my parents have been married for 40 years. There are no divorces in my family at all. My wife never fit in with my family. I chose her despite this and have defended her and my choice to be with her always. SHE'S the one with the dysfunctional family.

#869302 06/01/00 05:53 PM
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dear poorme, so you are real? Assuming you are real, and these posts really do reflect your attitude about marriage, I have to wonder if you read the Harley material on this website? Or any of the books related to rebuilding your marriage? <BR>Thank goodness there are only "a thousand guys" that think this way. Otherwise there would be a major decline in population growth in this country. <BR>You have cheated on your wife. You have lied, deceived, pulled all sorts of tricks, and you want her to commit now? Without so much as a second look at what she is getting into? Where are you in counseling? What are you doing to win her back? And you are placing conditions on her? <BR>Please get His Needs/Her Needs and memorize it cover to cover. A very good source book for you is Compelled to Control by Miller.The Five Love Languages by Chapman may help you find some better ways to express yourself to you wife. Love is Never Enough by Beck is excellent for looking at self, personal growth, conflict resolution, insight. Maybe some of John Grays books (mars and venus) would help you understand that women and men are not basically the same with sex organs attahced as an afterthought.<BR>Are you aware of the responsibilites that come with bearing a child? ENORMOUS!!! And it does not end when you want to go party for the night or screw around. It lasts forever-not 18 yrs as popular literature would have one believe. While it appears that you are willing to bear the financial responsibility, you are not ready to be a true father-you are not ready to put the child above all else. You are still in taker mode, which is a dangerous place to be for a father and husband. <BR>Lecture on hold....I have to cook FOR THE KIDS. Kids are always first poorme, remember that pearl.

#869303 06/01/00 06:48 PM
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Alright. I have read what the "betrayeds" have posted and I know that I am not the only one out there who has done these things and am not the only one who has feelings that their needs are not being met. When it's one of your husbands, you all flock to get his needs met, but when it's someone who knows what he wants you lecture and condemn. Well, guess what? I am real and I was looking for some real feedback, but found only judgment. This is definitly not helping. <P>I'm out of here.

#869304 06/01/00 07:26 PM
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poorme, it's just that your very way of thinking is disrespectful and derogatory to your wife ...<P>no, not all the other betrayers are like you....I have not seen such an ego in quite a long time....don't get all pissed off.....hold on....it's that you need to make some changes too...<P>depending on when you disclosed the information about your affairs to her, she could be going through the most painful thing she has ever emotionally felt...you need to bealot more patient, first of all...<P>do you realize you have repeatedly betrayed her, the trust she had in you, the vows you exchanged, the whole way she looks at and sees the world has changed...<P>can you grasp that?....some of us have wanted to die....from the choking and searing pain this sort of betrayal brings on....<P>have you even dealt with her feellings regarding your multiple affairs????....<P>I mean really dealt with them....<P>but I must admit, I have never seen a cavalier attitude like yours before...<P><BR>maybe you could try some baby steps....for instance....instead of saying :<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by poorme:<BR><B><BR> My wife never fit in with my family. I chose her despite this and have defended her and my choice to be with her always.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>how about trying:<P>'My wife never fit in with my family. She chose me despite this....and I am thankful'<P>you just come across as thinking that you are such hot $hit, and your wife is just so beneath you, and you lowered yourself to even marry her, and you cheat repeatedly on her, but don't trust her to be honest about birth control ?...you make it seem like you are doing her a big favour to even be considered by you...please, poorme, do you hear yourself???...<P>my H and I won't be having our 2nd child for quite some time....I could not have a child with someone who has just done this to me...<P>read the books suggested here if you really and truly love your wife....consider it a dare...<P>I know you're real, and you have a very big problem that can and will change your life....<P>i just can't believe your attitude.... [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]<P><BR>Dylan<P>------------------<BR>"The journey into darkness has been long and cruel, and you have gone deep into it."<BR>~ A Course in Miracles

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