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#870879 06/09/00 04:50 AM
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Please..<P>Remind me why I'm not yelling at my wife telling her that she's a COWARD for finding a new life for herself while messing up me and our 2 sons life in the process.<P>Remind me why I'm not yelling at my wife telling her how DISAPPOINTED I, my family and our mutual friends are at her because of what she is doing.<P>Remind me why I'm not not telling her family why they should stop supporting her in her actions by telling them my side of the story as well.<P>Remind me why I'm not yelling at her telling her how sad it is that we have to sell the new house we are building because she is splitting up our family for her own sake.<P>Remind me why I'm not telling my 6 yo son the real reason why Mommy is not living in our house any longer even if he wakes up in the middle of the night crying.<P>Remind me why I'm not yelling at my wife lecturing her about emotional honesty which she seems to be lacking totally since she has never told me that she was unhappy prior to her affair.<P>Remind me why I'm not yelling at my wife telling her how a complete %&¤#&¤#"¤&¤&&¤")&¤# her boss is for going after a woman he knew is married with children. [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]<P>Remind me why I'm not yelling at my wife telling her how my friends and family tell me to stop being so nice to her.<P>Remind me why I'm still reading those books (Harley, DB, Gottman, Spring Abrahms..) even if my family tells me to stop "because she's not coming back" and are starting to question my sanity.<P>Remind me why I'm not giving my wife a hard kick in the b*** even though I have dreamed about doing this for a long time.<P>Remind me why I don't ask her to read the same books as I do about what we're going through.<P>Remind me why I don't lecture her about lost feelings and how they're not either there or not but can be worked on.<P>Remind me why I don't lecture her about the FOG she's in and that she hopefully will come out of soon.<P>Remind me why I don't lecture her about how the grass never turns out to be greener on the other side of the fence.<P>Remind me why I'm not yelling at my wife telling her how mad I am at the fact that she's jumping ship to live with an OM without financial problems while I'm left alone and have to manage the life we had before on only one salary.<P>Remind me why I'm not yelling at my wife telling her how me having the children 50% is not a "gift from her" but the least I should have. After all I'm the father and I didn't ask for this (even if I have to take some blame in enabling it to happen).<P>Remind me why I'm not running after the OM with a baseball bat. [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com] <P>Remind me why I'm moving in and out of our house (staying with my depressing parents) so that my wife can take care of the children at our house every other week until she has her new arrangements ready.<P>Remind me why I'm not yelling at my wife telling her how upset I am at the fact that she don't want to work on our marriage.<P>Remind me why I'm not yelling at my wife telling her how mad I am at her for blaming everything long back in ancient history for what happens now and instead of blaming it on the affair.<P>Remind me of why I'm not yelling at my wife telling her how upset I am for not telling me the truth the first time I found out that something seemed to be wrong, asked her to sit down with me and asked her to give me the truth (shortly after her EA started).<P>Remind me why I'm not yelling at my wife telling her how disappointed I am in all her lying the last 6 months.<P>Remind me why I'm not yelling at my wife telling her how upset I am at all that has been going on behind my back the recent 6 months (EA, PA?, cellular text messages being sent and received at odd times, catching her about to have a date with OM etc etc).<P>Remind me why I have to seem upbeat around her and "be her best friend" even if it is strongly against how my brain tells me to act.<P>Remind me why I'm being civil about finding the best solution for the kids even if my body is almost shaking with anger around my wife.<P>Remind me why I still love this woman. [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]<P>Remind me why Dr. Harley is doing this to us.<P>Sorry...I just needed a vent. I hope you see the irony in my last "remind me".<BR><P>------------------<BR>Scandinavian<BR>scandinavian@my-deja.com

#870880 06/09/00 06:01 AM
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Because she wouldn't GET it if you did say or do any og those things.<P>We're really only responsible for our 50% of the relationship.<P>It is so painful to watch a person go through this as if they were a puppet. I have a similar circumstance but with an extra twist of having her H involved as well. Both my H and she live in separate apts. OP has her H running circles around her while she is pulling the puppet strings of my H.<P>I bowed out!!!<P>I guess it helps to remind ourselves that people generally do these things out of ignorance, not knowledge.<P>Really SEEING is the most difficult thing a human being can do.<P>Well, I better stop here, because I'm probably not being upbeat myself!!!<P>Just know, we are all with you on this one!!!TT.

#870881 06/09/00 08:11 AM
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Thanks for putting into word what Im attempting to figure out too. I can relate to most of what you are asking (though I make many mistakes each day w/Plan A). If you find the answer, please share it [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com].<BR>Kris

#870882 06/09/00 08:30 AM
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scandinavian:<P>Do all the above that you've listed. <P>Does it make you <I>really</I> feel better?<BR>Would it help restore your marriage?<BR>Does it set a good example?<BR>Are those behaviors representative of the kind of person you want to be known as?<P><BR>

#870883 06/09/00 08:42 AM
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The only answers I can think of are because even after everything she has done to you you love her, and you know that somewhere deep inside of the lost and confused person she has become is the woman who fell in love with you years ago. Because you want her to be happy and you want to be the person who makes her happy. You want to hold her and take away her pain. You want to be the person she comes to when she is hurting and needs a shoulder to cry on. You want to once again be the love in her life like you used to be. It's love. There is no easy way to explain it to people who aren't in your situation. your friends and family will never understand unless they have been in your shoes. There is no easy way to explain it to yourself. Love is an unseen emotion but very real. Unfortunately, one cannot fall out of love as easily as one can fall in love. By reading all the books and following all the advice of professionals like Dr. Harley, you feel like you can still have hope that things will come together in the end and that your love will be strong enough to pull the two of you out of the mess. I hope it is. I hope mine is, and that is why I am still trying even though my friends and family think I'm a fool.<P>Good luck to you. Pray without ceasing. It makes a difference on the days when you need reminding. Hang in there. May God grant you peace and happiness in the end.

#870884 06/09/00 08:52 AM
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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by K:<BR><B>scandinavian:<BR>Do all the above that you've listed. <BR></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>K,<BR>I have to admit that I don't do all that I've mentioned the way I should. I do LB, but I'm much better at this now.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B>Does it make you <I>really</I> feel better?</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Very difficult question. I have to say yes and no. In some way it gives me a slim hope of reversing what's happening, but at the same time I sometime feel that I just make everything easier for her.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B>Would it help restore your marriage?</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I hope so, but the chances are slim.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B>Does it set a good example?</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Depends on who you're asking I guess. Before I came to MB I would say NO. Now I know it can be my only hope.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B>Are those behaviors representative of the kind of person you want to be known as?</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Very tough question. After some time I would like to be able to look back on what happened and tell myself that I DID EVERYTHING possible to save my marriage and when I couldn't do that make all the best arrangements for the kids. But at the same time I feel that people think I'm too kind and question my sanity....and last but not least...a voice inside of me tells me that I'm not reacting instintively.<BR>But, if there is just one tiny little chance that I can get my wife back I will not be able to live with myself if i didn't take that chance and do everything possible to accomplish that (both for me and my children, and ultimately also for her because I know I have a lot of love and happiness to give her for the rest of her life. I feel I'm very well prepared for a relationship with the new insight of books and this forum. I just hope I will ever be in a relationship again, and I hope it will be with my wife.<BR><P>------------------<BR>Scandinavian<BR>scandinavian@my-deja.com

#870885 06/09/00 09:17 AM
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How about because you are a compassionate, moral person with high personal integrity. You still love your wife knowing what things COULD be like and what you and your children deserve from a wife and mother.<P>You know you can not control her actions by doing either good things or bad things to her. <P>You have accepted that, at least, YOU will remain civil and show your children how to behave. You will teach your children a valuable lesson on how to face difficult situations with dignity.<P>You know you will persevere and survive this trial and grow stronger than you ever thought possible.<P>You know that, when the "dust" finally settles, you will look back knowing that you made the right choices and that everything has worked out for the best (regardless of the outcome).<P>

#870886 06/09/00 10:02 AM
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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by scandinavian:<BR><B> But, if there is just one tiny little chance that I can get my wife back I will not be able to live with myself if i didn't take that chance and do everything possible to accomplish that (both for me and my children, and ultimately also for her because I know I have a lot of love and happiness to give her for the rest of her life. I feel I'm very well prepared for a relationship with the new insight of books and this forum. I just hope I will ever be in a relationship again, and I hope it will be with my wife.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>This sounds like a very good answer to your own questions. I hope for every success in your monumental efforts in saving your marriage. You have so many reasons to be angry, and yet you plan a your wife ad infinitum. I have confidence that you will make progress. <P>There's one thing, however, that makes me curious. Let's say your W comes out of her fog tomorrow, and she responds favorably to your plan a efforts. That would be wonderful success. But... where does the anger go? This forum is a great place to vent, but is it enough to release all the anger? I'm not a betrayed personally, but my H has done plenty of other things that make me angry. I have to keep reminding myself that plan a is about ME and making me the best person I can possibly be. So I have to ask the question to you and all the betrayed's reading this: how do you get rid of the anger when the plan a actually starts working?

#870887 06/10/00 12:06 AM
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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by lonesome heart:<BR><B> But... where does the anger go? This forum is a great place to vent, but is it enough to release all the anger? How do you get rid of the anger when the plan a actually starts working? </B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Lonesome heart,<BR>That is also a very good question. Some time I wonder if I'm able to release all my anger just by venting here. I don't think so, and where should I release it then? I'm not a violent person, so I don't think I will ever have a problem with releasing at anyone or anywhere I should not. But the anger seems to pile up, and right now I a little afraid that if I can't save my marriage (very likely) I will become a very bitter person and won't be able to heal.<BR><P>------------------<BR>Scandinavian<BR>scandinavian@my-deja.com

#870888 06/10/00 12:27 AM
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LH,<P>I echo your question on where will all the anger go if Plan A starts to work and your WS returns.<P>I want my H to return but I start to think if he did, how am I going to manage my anger toward him.<P>And it's not just anger I wonder about, it's loss of respect as well. How do you repair what has been damaged so badly. I know part of Plan A is to work on yourself, but what addresses the fallout on the Betrayed in terms of anger and loss of respect of the WS?<P>Anyone have answers???<P>Jo

#870889 06/10/00 12:42 AM
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Anger and Loss of Respect of WS<P>Now that I think of it, I think there should be a seperate post asking this question.<P>Most of us are so caught up in trying to get our S to come home or straighten-up, what happens when and if they do wrt our anger and other residual bad feelings.<P>Jo<P>BTW: WRT is an acronym for "with regards to"

#870890 06/09/00 01:24 PM
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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by scandinavian:<BR><B>Some time I wonder if I'm able to release all my anger just by venting here. I don't think so, and where should I release it then? <P>But the anger seems to pile up, and right now I a little afraid that if I can't save my marriage (very likely) I will become a very bitter person and won't be able to heal.<P></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Well, we all have some repressed anger and I agree that releasing it in a constructive way is crucial to a successful healing. However, healing does NOT necessarily mean or require reconciliation. We all have to find ways that work for ourselves.<P>I have been reasonably successful (IMO) in dealing with my anger by doing several things.<P>1. I do post here when I am moved to do so. Venting, purging, ranting, grieving, it doesn't matter, I know I will have a sympathetic "ear" in here.<P>2. I write in a journal. I include the "raw and uneditied" version of what I may post here and other feelings, obervations, whatever I want, without fear of offending anyone (no one reads it).<P>3. I go to church as well as pray. Not to sound like one of those bible thumpin', doorbell ringing evangelists, but this has had trememndous effect in releasing my pain and anger to Jesus.<P>4. My wife is starting to show some positive signs towards me. As she does, I feel my anger diminish because she IS starting to show me that I am, once again, important to her. We will still have to deal with the issues and the hurt but I feel I can now do that without resurfacing the anger.<P>I know it's real hard because at times you just feel like smacking the cr@p out of someone or something. Of course, you only feel better for a little while. Don't deny your anger to yourself but don't make it "public" to your WS.<P>"When angry, count to 4, when very angry, swear" - Mark twain

#870891 06/09/00 09:29 PM
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{{{{{<B>scandinavian</B>}}}}},<P>You know I am in <B>your</B> situation as well...<P>I recognize your pain...<BR>I've asked the questions...<BR>I've been in <B><I>that</I></B> condition...<P>For you... I chose a special post... <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum28/HTML/003399.html" TARGET=_blank>Inspire (18)</A>!<BR>It is the latest of my <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum29/HTML/000140.html" TARGET=_blank>Inspiration</A> series.<P>My thoughts are with you... [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]<P>Do something for yourself...<BR>...it is not selfish to heal oneself!<P>Your brother... [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]<P>Jim

#870892 06/12/00 07:17 AM
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Thanks for all the inspiring comments.<BR>I guess I'm at a stage now where everything just seems so hopeless. I do not only have to cope with the fact that my wife seems to go straight from me into the arms of OM, but I also will be left alone. this does something to your self-esteem, and sometimes I think to myself that i will never be able to find a replacement for my wife. And since she will not come back this means that I will spend the rest of my life alone (apart from having the children 50%). I'm afraid that this will make me very bitter and not able to look forward ever again. But I guess I'm not alone at having been at this stage.<P>Oh...I guess it's one of those days.<BR><P>------------------<BR>Scandinavian<BR>scandinavian@my-deja.com

#870893 06/12/00 08:05 AM
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Dear Scandinavian: Wow....and OH MY! Your questions are LOADED! And, what I'm going to say may draw criticism, but I must point out that I only found this site about two months ago (which was several months after d-day for me)...anyway, my point is that since I did not have the "wisdom" of this site, I did ASK/YELL/SCREAM/DEMAND/POUT/CRY/RAGE/SWEAR/NAME-CALL/CRITICISE/PUT DOWN/DEMORALIZE/PUNISH/ATTEMPT TO EDUCATE/LASH OUT/BEG FORGIVENESS/QUESTION WHY?<P>Guess you can say I HAD a place for my anger to go--crammed it right down my H's throat. But, hey, I'm no longer angry [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]...got past that stage. And, H weathered that storm and is still here by my side--OW TOTALLY out of the picture....AMAZING, HUH?<P>Would I have did it any differently had I found this site sooner? Unsure. Who knows? I do know that I was NOT willing to wait around....I know, I know...MAJOR LB...I forced H to make a decision...gave him an ultimatum...and, yes, I was prepared to go it alone had he chosen OW. (probably good to mention that H & I were in joint counseling at this point--and counselor "prepared" my H for the torrent of anger I was certain to lay on him while I went through my "anger stage").<P>Of course all situations are different. In our case I was the giver...ALWAYS...and H was the taker. So much the TAKER that even though his needs were being met at home, he decided to take a little more on the side. My counselor even nicknamed me my H's "handmaiden"...yuck! So, in my situation I feel--and maintain this feeling even now-- as though I had been Plan Aing my entire marriage...in reality I guess I jumped to Plan B on d-day--told H to give it up or get out--couldn't have us both. In my situation, I honestly couldn't have Planned A....would have sucked the life right out of me....I honestly would have "lost" ME. I think all humans have their own "breaking point" and allowing my H to see/touch/sleep/love OW would have sent me over the edge....literally.<P>So, I guess my point is this: Don't lose yourself. Am I suggesting that you do as I do and totally "go off" on your wife?--OF COURSE NOT!!! What I'm suggesting is to know your breaking point...and don't push yourself past it. Get counseling for yourself (here or anywhere). Let your anger go....even if it means yelling at the top of your lungs while driving down the freeway. Remember to try to be fair. Remember to try to be kind. But be true to yourself. Feel free. Find your wings and FLY....free yourself. <P>I'm praying that you find PEACE, ~Marie

#870894 06/12/00 08:13 AM
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Scan,<P>I know what you mean and I have no good advice to give. I was praying again in my car but this time asking God to show me PLEASE some sign or direction, you know should I move on. When I ended my prayer, Celine Dion's song about "keep the faith, love will find a way" came on. Was it His sign, coincidence, am I drawing at straws, I don't know for sure but I will get through another day! and then the next and the next.<P>Lila

#870895 06/12/00 09:02 AM
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Scan <BR>thank you for posting this thread. I too feel like you do today.<BR>You can see by my post of today. After I post I always go thru and read what others have to say and low and behold someone is usually at the same place. <BR>Then along comes Jim or someone else that has something to say or just some support, or even his story that i read a copied.<BR>To remind me WHY I am like you and why I STILL want to give my marriage a chance.<BR>I did notice little things like H calling me Dear and Honey again, but this time when it slips he's not catching himself and correcting his words. <BR>You see H using my name sounds so strange because he always had nicknames for every family member and only used our names when he was serious... So using our nicknames is kinda like he's starting to be comfortable around us again.<BR>I need to start dwelling on the positives and not the negative stuff that is still happening. So again I am sooo greatful for this site and all of you here....<BR>Today my fears will be put in my "God Box"


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