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Hi All,<p>Been away a bit, have been reflecting on recent events in court. Also lots of struggles with understanding "why" my H is so interlocked with OW (his guilt and empathy).<p>After much thought, I really wonder if the MB principals are as effective on a marriage where the WS is a serial cheater. My H has done this twice (confirmed but possibly more) in the last 10 years.<p>My feelings are he may very well have something profoundly wrong with him and perhaps the MB principals may not apply. <p>I very much believe in the "EN" and "Love Bank" theory and Plan A and Plan B too, but my Therapist tells me my H is psychotic in his actions.<p>This post isn't me questioning or doubting the MB principals, it's me asking can it apply to situations where the WS continues to make it a way of life.<p>I liked to hear from those who have successfully made it to recovery where your WS was a serial cheater. And anyone else who may have an answer for me.<p>Jo<p>[ May 02, 2002: Message edited by: Resilient ]</p>

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I don't have an answer for you, but there is another Web site...don't know the address, but it is Vaughn-Vaughn, I believe.<P>It is a H/W team who have authored books after recovering from the H's multiple affairs.<P>Maybe someone will know the exact address.

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Hey Daisy Jo,<P> How are you doing?<BR> Sorry about all the court crap you're having to put up with.<P>I don't really have an answer for you,either.But,I felt the same about my W;if she doesn't have something not quite right in the harddrive.All the MB principles in the world won't work on someone who's missing a few shingles off their roof(ya know what I mean,jellybean?)<BR>She claimed this was her first affair,but had thought about cheating before,several times(thanks,hon,I didn't know that).Maybe some people just aren't suited for marriage,period.<P>I think the site FHL is refering to is the DearPeggy.com site.It has a ton of stuff about affairs.Check it out.<BR> <BR>Take care,Daisy Jo.<P> ~~Murph [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

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Hi Resilient,<P>Ok I am in a serial cheater kind of relationship. For three years now Tony has cheated, tried to cheat, and even thought about cheating. This March/April found AOL IM on his computer. <P>He loves his AOL. They make it so easy to cheat. He set up the account. Denies it till the cows came home and went out again. I just do not have it me to trust him anymore.<P>I tried the MB stuff in the beginning when I found this site but being nice to him just did not help. I emplamented Tough love and MB. I set boundries. Funny thing for someone who really has no desires for a child I am raising one. Big old baby named Tony. He has no concept of repercusions to our actions. He is a prime example of a hedionist. He only thinks of himself. Not of my feelings. <P>I should give him credit he is getting better. But it has such a toll on me and my well being.<P>Sorry long and borring digression. I think in a situation like mine or yours... MB has some good guidlines but that can not be all. MB is assuming both partners are fully mature adults. Not someone trying to be stupid little kid 24/7. I think Tough Love with MB makes more sense. They have to see the boundries and know the outcome in advance. <P>For example: You have so many days to do this for our marriage or this will happen. <P>This is what I am doing. I see some resaults but I also feel like I am the parent and I have to spank him if he gets out of line. I resent that. I want a relationship with an adult. Tony has a lot of problems. I think for one thing he is a sex addict and his parent's have instilled in him the belief that he can do what ever he wants when he wants too and it is ok because they will clean up the mess. <P>Sorry long winded. I am in a strange mood today.

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I am pretty sure that once you get away with it once, it is easier to try it again and again.<P>Besides, a cheating experience is usually a pleasant one, and if you can separate cheating from your real life, not intertwine the two in your conscience, it makes it a whole lot easier.<P>My hubby, after having a affair, became a cyber-sex addict. I know that he actually met one of his cybersex friends in person and took her out on the town. He says that they did not have sex in real life. Stupid, because I believe him.<P>The site is Dr Peggy Vaughn, I love it. I have copied a lot of stuff from her website.

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Here you go:<BR> <A HREF="http://www.vaughan-vaughan.com/myth.html" TARGET=_blank>http://www.vaughan-vaughan.com/myth.html</A>

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Jo,<BR>The MB principles do work because they stem from the servant attitude that Jesus showed us by His example. You sound as though you are a Christian. Read the book of Hosea and see the parallels: you are in the role of Hosea and your H is in the role od Gomer. <P>My pastor had me read it and after hearing J. Vernon Magee preach on Hosea on the radio, it dawned on me that God wanted me to marry my W for a reason similar to Hosea. The tone of your post gives me the same feeling about you situation. I am praying for you as well as everyone else here on this forum.<BR><P>------------------<BR><B><I>God Bless,<BR>Rob</I></B><BR> regilmor@swbell.net

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Bump for DeeDee ...

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<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Resilient:
<strong><p>My feelings are he may very well have something profoundly wrong with him and perhaps the MB principals may not apply. <p>This post isn't me questioning or doubting the MB principals, it's me asking can it apply to situations where the WS continues to make it a way of life.<p>[ May 02, 2002: Message edited by: Resilient ]</strong><hr></blockquote><p> I think you may be right Jo. I've known afew serial cheaters (mostly musicians!) in my life and no amount of plan anything was going to get them to change. They were addicted to the thrill and the newness of different women. Afew of them seemed to think it was some sort of entitlement. Only ONE of these guys had any gripes about his home life, the others were perfectly happy with their mates. The one who complained about his wife had numerous As and eventually the W kicked him out. He eventually married his OW of the moment. I think they are still together, but the last time I saw her (OW) she told me that he had cheated on her at least once before the wedding and twice afterwards (2 different women, As that lasted awhile). I talked at length with one of the other guys about his cheating and he admitted that he had no explanation. He loved his wife dearly but just couldn't stop. Even the fear of her leaving him (which he was afraid of) couldn't make him stop.

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<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Resilient:
<strong>Bump for DeeDee ...</strong><hr></blockquote><p>I got feedback last year that specifically stated that the pan A stuff does not work with Sexaholic & that it actually made it worse becasue it game the addict freedom to contiunue to deceive & not take responsibility -- I unfortanately do not hear from these people anymore.<p>I believe like most things in life there has to be a balance -- If we want to continue relationship, we should provide a safe plce to heal, but eventually the adict has to seek help, if they don't we may have to try & TAKE STEPS TO HELP THEM SEE THE LIGHT -- NOT AT ALL EASY!!<p>I get busted all the time here for what many consider "controling" behavior. I frankly don't see myselve that way, but who am I to say?
I know that the addict sure does not want any accountibility for their time and I believe they would prefer to have as much freedom as possible to at least allow some flexibility should they find themselve in a situation to cheat -- they think they can control these urges & they are in denial about it --
As someone else illustrated -- I believe once they have had the band aide ripped off the arm a couple times and survivied the sting and embarassament & shame of getting caught a couple times -- the extra charge & danger of it all adds to the excitement aspect and can make it even more alluring - like any addicition, until in sobriety, it becomes more progressive -- need more to get fix & yu become more daring & take more chances to get the fix -- The thoughts of S, family & children can quickly deminish in comparison to the high! [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img]
Faith in our Higher Power is a must!
Best of Luck
Hope this helps.
Peace,
HH

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All this serial cheater talk around here lately... ugh! I have to agree that MB won't work with a SC. My H claims he never lost his love for me, never wanted us to be apart, claims I am the "perfect" woman for him, his "soulmate". Definitely earns some, err, points, for telling me. The ones HE told me about, I never would have known since he admits they were really quick, that he was supposed to be at work or was out with our friends (a couple) until he followed another sl*t home for a quick one. <p>Always came home to me, to our bed, planted kisses on my forehead sometimes minutes after leaving some stranger in a hotel room. Told me he adored and cherished me... What kind of plan A could I possible do? <p>He admitted his indiscretion. But he will not accept that he did so willingly. There's always a fall guy -- me, the OW, alcohol, the situaion (being around other musicians who were all cheating also) depression, low self esteem. Nope, no, never would have chosen to do it if he were in his "right mind". What is a person supposed to do with that? That "I don't have a problem, it was a bad time" excuse? Don't we get that from alcoholics who say, " I can quit anytime, I don't have a real problem "? <p>I suppose another person might look at the confessions as a willingness to change. [H] was not a serial cheater but he was, obviously, willing to do whatever it takes to support K through her trials, to rebuild their marriage, trials which she did not choose to endure. I don't believe that most serial cheaters get that.<p>Why do I stay here? Because that relationship is dead and over and I will someday have another relationship. I am determined to be healthier and to choose a better mate next time around. And I believe that with two HEALTHY persons embroiled in a very unhealthy situation, the principals do work. <p>My two cents. <p>Snow

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Hi Resilient, I am finding out my h is serial cheater and sex addict.. along with alcoholic...at same time his love for me is still alive.. .sad, right? confusing , right? he is a muscician, so was his father.. they are both sevceral time adulterers... I am so sick... <p>he is so charming and loving and handsome and talented, but so stupid and throwing his life away, and well wasting my time and my kids... it is so sad.... <p>I know the plan a worked with my h... but any tought love he just gets way angry and rebellious... same with any confrontations... <p>he just wants me to be sweet little honey that lovey dovies him and takes care of him... which is what ow's do.. he loves fun, he hates responsibility.. he can tell a lie.. and anyone will believe him.. <p>I start to think he is narcissitic.. sp>? typo?<p>Anyway, I do not evem know as I start to feel I am banging my head against the wall all the while my h is banging the maid... ???? go figure... <p>He is throwing away his life and my kids... his dad eventually grew up.. and his 3rd wife cheated on him with a woman... payback?<p>His fourth wife.. is also of multiple marriage.. and who knows if it will last? My fil is a lawyer.. synonymous for liar... he defends criminals and makes their crimes ok? kind of like a serial cheater liar... who says it is ok to lie... <p>I feel his poor value system... he goes to church and in his old agae.... he used to be real bluesy.. he actually plays gospel with church gospel bluesly groups in good ole Ga,... and travels around... with his wife... at least they have no kiddies to interfere .. and she is always closeby.. which these type of men seem to need contsnt attetion... my mil... says he , my fil... serial cheater.. could not go without a woman <p>
Now my therapist and I isolated this lately... <p>MY husband thought I was suppossed to make his life ok, or good... or whatever.. he even sd that when we married... everything will be great if you marry me... see I came from stable environment.. my parnts are still married.. they are not high drama... althought I had some childhood issues.. and they some parenting issues.. or issues I had with them... but still... no cheating by my parents.. etc.. none of that... none of that!~ So I thought we were going to be married and faithful forever... , right?<p>after what I call ow number 1 , h confessed to quite a few more women.... 5-8... who knows at this point? later.. he tried to tell me.. .when things were better between us.. oh, no it wasn't like that.. it was't that many I was just trying to hurt you... kind of thing..<p>sorry to go on and on on your thread... it is just that this stuff is just hitting me.. and it is so heart breaking... so difficutl... so terrible... <p>anyway... I just feel like.. crawling under my sheets waking up and having it be one year ago today... before I knew all this! [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Hugs to you, HOney... I know it is horrible... but sometimes I feel like.. why do I do all this trying plan a., plan b... reading books, etc.. ? why...? oh I guess because I have two babies and I vowed until death do us part.. and I'll be damned if my llove of my life.. so far anyway.. doesn't grab my dream and life.. and stomp all over it and tear it up and say,... but I still love you?<p>What?<p>Have you seen that lifetime tv show on the serial cheating sex addict h? <p>It was a good movie, sad.. but her h actually went through recovery with her.. and it worked.. with 1 caring... our h's are still in their disease... eternal teenagers?<p>hugs, honey.. my 3 yr. old is crying and pushing himself in my lap.. mommu... mommy... ok! [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img]

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oops realized with crying baby.. I missed my topic on the fact that h wanted me to make his life ok... <p>that is problem issue... <p>people do not change other people... I do not make his life ok.. <p>
marriage is give and take and love and give love... relationship... <p>m y h big taker.. taker taker... and he wanted me to solve him... to heal him... when I did not.. he searched for some other magic person... maybe for a while the high of our love... magic that we had.. made him happy.. but he is now searching for happiness in other women... trying to fix himself and fill his void..<p>in one of my many relationship books,.. I found that this is often evident of men who did not get what they needed as kids.. the love they needed as babes.. etc.. my h was abandoned by mom or taken ... by dad if that makes sense hard to understand.. but he had difficutl yrs as small child... and now still difficult life.. .<p>anyway, I wish I could fix him.. but I am sorry he is angry.. I do not fill the void... who knows... <p>just wanted to explain.. baby still crying and screaming for me..<p>bye again.. honey

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Serial cheaters are different. This behavior is often based on a sexual addiction. Like any addictive behavior, it must be handled before the marriage can really recover. <p>Let’s face it, MB will only work if a person is willing to do it. A person with an addiction is driven to the addictive behavior. So even if part of them wants to live by the MB principles, the addictive part is pushing them to do otherwise. It’s a struggle that they usually loose.<p>There are some good books about Sexual Addiction.. “Out of the Shadows” comes to mind. Carne has written a series of good books on the topic.

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Here's My two cents worth- that it doesn't hurt to do MB principles, but if they don't work, then, at least you have eliminated something. Also, some may need more help than MB priniciples, they have to work on issues inside them, i.e. alcohol, drugs, SA, abuse,etc. <p>I know my Wh is wired differently. [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img]

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Depends why they're doing it.
I'm sure some aren't getting their realistic needs filled.
Others just have needs that no human can fulfill.<p>Those you can MB until you bust and you're still going to have a wayward spouse.

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I believe that the MB principles can work if both partners are healthy. In my case it is pretty hard to meet my husband's most important needs since he considers one of those "needs" to be the excitement and thrill of having a woman for the 1st time. We both realize that this isn't really a need, but a result of his addiction. However, the fact remains that left untreated (and HE is the ONLY one who can seek recovery for himself), this "need" will resurface and there is nothing I can do to meet it. <p>I was also thinking about this the other day -- as a co-addict, my Love Bank is clogged -- or perhaps just out of kilter. I am capable of accepting "deposits" and those increase the amount of love I feel for my husband. But no matter how horrible he is (and he has been pretty horrible!!), I continue to feel that love. I may momentarily hate him with my entire soul, but he says one nice thing and BAM! Love Bank is filled up again. <p>My belief is that in a co-addicted relationship the behaviors are so ingrained that those behaviors and attitudes must be addressed and resolved first before any type of real work can be done on the marriage.


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