Welcome to the
Marriage Builders® Discussion Forum

This is a community where people come in search of marriage related support, answers, or encouragement. Also, information about the Marriage Builders principles can be found in the books available for sale in the Marriage Builders® Bookstore.
If you would like to join our discussion forum, please read the Announcement Forum for instructions, rules, & guidelines.
The members of this community are peers and not professionals. Professional coaching is available by clicking on the link titled Coaching Center at the top of this page.
We trust that you will find the Marriage Builders® Discussion Forum to be a helpful resource for you. We look forward to your participation.
Once you have reviewed all the FAQ, tech support and announcement information, if you still have problems that are not addressed, please e-mail the administrators at mbrestored@gmail.com
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2
Joined: Nov 1999
Posts: 1,579
S
schizzo Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
S
Joined: Nov 1999
Posts: 1,579
Please do tell, I need to know...<P>Do you run pictures of you and this woman? Don't you find the idea of sex with a stranger to be gross?<P>Or do you see a woman with attitude strutting her stuff and wish to dominate her?<P>Or is it something else?<P>I don't think I've seen this described anywhere. We're told men are more visual and are "turned on" by sexy women...

Joined: Aug 1999
Posts: 758
F
F A Offline
Member
Offline
Member
F
Joined: Aug 1999
Posts: 758
I have lusted after a woman besides my wife in years. I have sexual thoughts of other women, but not to the point of lusting after them. But when I have/had lusting thoughts, I generally imagine having sex with them, nothing very elaborate or romantic, like a romance book or something, just sex. <P>I think that for some of us men, the fact that she may be a stranger is part of what turns us on, I guess you could call it the "we want what we can't have" syndrome.

Joined: Sep 1999
Posts: 483
2
Member
Offline
Member
2
Joined: Sep 1999
Posts: 483
Schizzo,<P>This is an interesting question! Yes, we men are VERY visually oreinted creatures.<P>For me there are varying levels interest in looking at other women. I find great beauty in the shape of a woman's body, so sometimes I am just looking to appreciate that beauty. <P>Sometimes it is looking to imagine what a woman is like sexually - the novelty or curiosity factor.<P>The fact that this would be sex with a stranger doesn't enter the equation - this is shallow fantasizing. No chance of this occurring, so those kinds of details don't matter.<P>Hope this helps!

Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 1,148
C
Member
Offline
Member
C
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 1,148
I think I am very visual. Sometimes I look at another woman & wonder what it would be like to be intimate with her. Sometimes it seems like a little variety would be fun, but I'm sure it would be a disappointment, in reality. My wife is a terrific lover & I'm sure anyone else would pale in comparison.<P>Now if I could just get her interested again...<P>------------------<BR>Nick<BR>I love her not because of who <BR>she is, but because of who I <BR>am when I am with her.

Joined: Nov 1999
Posts: 1,579
S
schizzo Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
S
Joined: Nov 1999
Posts: 1,579
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Or do you see a woman with attitude strutting her stuff and wish to dominate her?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>So, is this rather unusual? <P>

Joined: Nov 1999
Posts: 1,579
S
schizzo Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
S
Joined: Nov 1999
Posts: 1,579
JL,<P>are you out there?<P>Maybe I could change the question...<P>Do you know any guys that would let their tongues hang out at the sight of a pretty woman?<P>Young boys are feeling a bit insecure and doing more than looking for love...Many times they see a pretty woman and would like to have POWER over her. They may intellectually see women as people, but at some level they are sex objects to be CONQUERED.<P>What I'm trying to ask is how much of this continues to be a part of the male psyche???

Joined: Aug 1999
Posts: 758
F
F A Offline
Member
Offline
Member
F
Joined: Aug 1999
Posts: 758
In changing the question somewhat, along with the other statements that you have highlighted, I am assuming that you are assuming that men for the most part, want to dominate women. I would assume that there are men out there who only see women as objects to be used for their pleasure, but I wouldn't classify all of us men as such. I would agree that as youngsters we looked at "scoring" with women as a contest, the more women we were able to convince to get in the sack, the more of a man we were, and admittedly there are still many men like that. However I don't think it is because they want to dominate them or have power over them, I think it is more of getting a sense of being a "real" man, being able to brag to the fellas that he was able to score with "so and so". Yes, some of us men still brag and have contests about who can score the most, it's a shame, but it still happens in locker rooms all over this country.<P>In reference to the woman with attitude strutting her stuff, again I don't know if it is really about dominating her, as much as it is about some men wanting to "put her in her place", but that doesn't necessarily have anything to do with any sexual thoughts or desires, putting her in her place could be about taking her down a notch or two, but sex doesn't necessarily have to come into the picture. I know for me, if I come across a woman who has "attitude" and that attitude is something that I would consider a negative, I simply try to avoid her, and if I can't avoid her, then I simply let her know that I won't deal with a lot of SH$% that I don't have to, but it isn't about wanting to dominate her, I would do the same if it was a man.

Joined: Nov 1999
Posts: 1,579
S
schizzo Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
S
Joined: Nov 1999
Posts: 1,579
Thanks F A, Where is JL?<P>I'm just trying to understand...<P>He tells me this is what he thinks, she needs some *** to take her down a notch, show her who is boss. He's not proud of it, but that is what triggers in him???

Joined: Aug 1999
Posts: 758
F
F A Offline
Member
Offline
Member
F
Joined: Aug 1999
Posts: 758
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by schizzo:<BR><B>.....she needs some *** to take her down a notch, show her who is boss.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Sounds more like a figure of speech to me. This may sound kinda crude, but when we "manly men" get together, this is how we talk to each other. Sex is the answer for everything, for example.....If a woman supervisor is tough and no nonsense, she is usually labled a BIT%$ who needs a good FU$%, or when talking about a lesbian who may happen to be very attractive, men will often say something like....."if she got a good fu$%, she would leave those women alone", or if a woman happens to be in a not so good mood, it's because she didn't "get any last" night.<P>So from the statement that you put in your posts, it pretty much sounds like your husband is just using a figure of speech that is most understood by us "manly men" [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]<P>

Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 56
R
Member
Offline
Member
R
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 56
Schizzo,<P>I like this question!<P>FA has given you a lot of good insight. I'll add mine.<P>The visual image of a sexy, beautiful or at least cute woman is a powerful trigger that causes me to be delighted by what I see. Then it causes me to imagine what she looks like in lengerie, or with nothing at all. Next, I imagine her finding me attractive enough to cause her to want to be seductive and pursue me sexually, (ego trip here?) to almost actively dominate me sexually, in any type of setting: hot tub, under the stars, in an opulent bedroom, in the back seat (of a big car, not in a VW Beetle like I tried once, long ago) etc..... and then I imagine hot, passionate can't get enough of you sex with her. I don't have to know her at all. It's the imagined activity and it's attending sensations and ego gratification that are important in the lustful fantasy, not the person herself.<BR>I know it sounds gross and impersonal to a woman, but at least for me, it's an ego trip, a challenge, a game, to attempt to attract the attention of an attractive woman and seduce her, if nothing else in your fantasy world. I think women do much the same with men if they would admit it.<BR>The problem is, when it is acted out on the real stage of life, the consequences can be devastating. Guess I had to find out the hard way......<BR>Rockaway<BR> <BR><p>[This message has been edited by rockaway (edited September 29, 2000).]

Joined: Aug 1999
Posts: 15,284
J
Member
Offline
Member
J
Joined: Aug 1999
Posts: 15,284
schizzo,<P>I read this and tried to decide if I had enough time to answer what I suspect is a loaded question but very deep. I guess I'll give it my best shot.<P>I guess I'll start by saying you are asking a much harder question than you know. Let me start by saying what I experience because I can really only explain it from that perspective. Sex drive for men is very insidious. It starts with some thoughts about sex, then it begins to build so that ideas of sex (women, form, texture, etc) start to occur more frequently (every few minutes). THen it builds and it is continually running in your mind ( I mean continually). You are trying to work and you are parallel processing (one instance sex, the next work, study whatever).<P>Now, you are ripe for lust because sex is really on your mind as the hormones take over. As, 2sad4words, said I love the female form, so what happens is that every woman you see, you begin to imagine her form. It doesn't have to be perfect, in fact the "imperfections" are more fascinating. You look, you imagine. (What does she look like from this angle, that angle, clothes on, clothes off, whatever). <P>Now if the lust focuses on a certain woman, then sexual acts may come to mind. I suspect that there you begin to see a divergence of what each man goes to. The fantasy I am sure has to do with their experiences and upbringing. For some it may be a revenge type of thing, domination, others a seduction fantasy (you seduce her), or others the fantasy may be she seduces you. But in all cases and more that I haven't mentioned, you can "feel", "taste", "want", and "crave" like few other things in your life.<P>This goes on constantly in most men's lives. You learn to control it, you learn to avoid situations, you learn that sexual relief, and even better sex with emotional connection pushes these intense fantasies further way for longer periods of time. You also learn, that given the right situation, when you are weakest, you are almost defenseless. That can be scary.<P>Why do you think the Muslims cover up their women? It isn't because the women are weak, it is because the men know they are. The less to fantasize about the better. We have gone the opposite direction, guess what? rape is much higher, infidelity is up, etc.<P>So schizzo, I don't know where you want to go with this, but you must understand that the visualization is so strong that concepts of gross, etc. are not really relavent. Most men learn to handle these strong drives, but they are ubiquitous in our every day lives.<P>When men say women have no idea, they are not kidding. We have such a hard time understanding how women "don't" think about sex all of the time. Therefore, when they don't it can only mean one thing, they find us repulsive.<P>schizzo, I cannot and have not adequately described what goes on. It is very complex and of course so natural to me, that I don't think about it. But women are always amazed that men can be attracted to what women feel are unattractive women, but when the hormones are rushing and the inhibition are down, all women look beautiful to men, if only for awhile.<P>Hope this at least addressed a little of what you are asking.<P>God Bless,<P>JL

Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 40
R
Member
Offline
Member
R
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 40
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by schizzo:<BR><B>Thanks F A, Where is JL?<P>I'm just trying to understand...<P>He tells me this is what he thinks, she needs some *** to take her down a notch, show her who is boss. He's not proud of it, but that is what triggers in him???</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I may be off base here, but you are probably asking the wrong guys questions of this nature. The guys on these boards are here because they are kind, caring, sensitive, guys that have respect for their wives and women in general. If we wouldn't we probably wouldn't be on this site because we would feel that we don't need help and all the problems belong to our spouses.<P>I am not trying to say that your husband is in another category. I am just commenting on the guys on this board. <P>What do you think guys?<P>Reborn<BR>

Joined: Nov 1999
Posts: 1,579
S
schizzo Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
S
Joined: Nov 1999
Posts: 1,579
It has crossed my mind that the guys on the board are a special bunch! [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]<P>JL, you came close to explaining it to me. My h and I are exploring this because I believe there is a big risk that he will cheat again no matter how wonderful our marriage is becoming. Not a nice thought!<P>In fact, he said he believes he would, given the right circumstances.<P>Yeah, I guess his fantasies are more domination, he was very shy as a young man.<P>However, I don't think this was a factor in either of his As. He had an emotional connection with them. I think sex is much more emotional for men than most are willing to admit.<P>It is a loaded question, and I am looking for more than "well, I'll try to avoid certain situations." He has always done that, avoiding situations that many men would never think twice about: working with women, lunches, commutes...

Joined: Aug 1999
Posts: 15,284
J
Member
Offline
Member
J
Joined: Aug 1999
Posts: 15,284
schizzo,<P>Then he knows have the answer. I have never cheated on my W. I don't view that as a great moral statement, but rather a statement that I realize my vulnerabilities and stay away from situations that I know to be risky. I don't go drinking when I travel. I stay out of bars when I travel. I may have a drink or two at a meal, but I don't go where women are hanging out. schizzo, I am 55 years old and I still do this although I do travel quite abit.<P>schizzo, I believe your H is being honest with you, but I don't think you should be afraid of this honesty. You see I believe his statement holds for many men. Traveling makes the chances of being in the wrong place a bit greater. Oddly, because he is amoung strangers and he is a stranger. More likely for a woman to come on to him.<P>AS for the domination fantasy, it is pretty normal I suspect, especially of shy or insecure people. I don't mean that as a negative at all, for most boys fall into that category, heck even some of the most "successful" boys in HS fall into that category.<P>In all honesty, from a society standpoint and a marriage standpoint, there is little difference if an H is seduced or does the seducing. The result is the same, so you pick your poison.<P>Your problem is the usual trust. It is not specific to him by any means. The drives and the fantasies are almost constant schizzo, in virtually all men.<P>It seems to me you two should keep talking, but take his honesty for what it is. It isn't a deep seated desire to cheat on you, he is stating the simple fact that men do have these strong drives.<P>By the way I do think your are right, the emotional side of sex is very important to most men. It is what separates real sex from fantasy sex or even masturbation. It is much more satisfying and the relief from the fantasies last much longer. (days instead of hours).<P>Quite frankly what will keep your H from cheating is the same that keeps any WS from cheating. Fear of losing you. He is more aware of how much it hurt you and by definition him and the children. So it will add to his ability to resist. Your traveling with him also helps, but you will not always be able to do that.<P>So the usual advice still applies, Plan A, him and live by the normal rules of a good relationship. Harley's four rules are as good as any. But do keep talking with him, it seems that the two of your are getting to know one another very well. Plus hopefully, the guys that responded here will have given you some insight.<P>Oh! and by the way, the responses I have seen here are not special, they are pretty normal. We don't objectify sex and women any more or less than the average guy,is my guess. It is just the misinterpretation of what a sex drive really is in men. It is chemical and it is constant, so initially any woman will do. It is the other things that make a given woman special us. Believe me on this. Finally, believe me when I say, this process is not a learned thing, that men can just stop the fantasies. <P>I believe that many women think that and certainly popular dogma seems to try and reenforce it with the "a woman should be able to wear anything she wants anywhere she wants". In theory a true statement but in reality a very stupid thing to do. [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]<P>Hope this is of some help.<P>God Bless,<P>JL<BR>

Joined: Nov 1999
Posts: 1,579
S
schizzo Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
S
Joined: Nov 1999
Posts: 1,579
Thank-you so much again, JL.<P>I understand your last paragraph very well, that guys just are that way and it is certainly irresponsible of women to think they can dress anyway, say no at any time. They have that right, but it is highly irresponsible!<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Your problem is the usual trust. It is not specific to him by any means. The drives and the fantasies are almost constant schizzo, in virtually all men.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>An issue of trust, yes. But I need something to trust in - he tells me, as you said in all honesty, that he believes he would do it again if he is in the "right situation".<P>We have a wonderful relationship. He now knows firsthand the pain it causes (we read Harley before he cheated, but he has to KNOW for himself). Don't you see that I need more than "I will go back to avoiding bad situations"? It's a start, but I need more.<P>Then, you said it was fear of losing me.<P>I told him I would leave if he ever cheated. Most of us have said that here on MB. He seems to remember me telling him once was ok???<P>I don't believe I could go through all this again, but can't say until tested. If anything, he might well say to himself, "she won't leave, look how quickly she forgave me."<P>

Joined: Aug 1999
Posts: 15,284
J
Member
Offline
Member
J
Joined: Aug 1999
Posts: 15,284
schizzo,<P>Any man or woman for that matter can say that. What you need to see is that the situation is changing. I believe you posted he is taking more of an interest in the children, he is taking more of an interest in you. schizzo, the only thing that holds all of this together is our commitment. Our commitment to do our best to do the right thing. Threats won't really stop someone determined to do the wrong thing, but once the potential loses are realized, then often that will do.<P>schizzo, there are many very religiou people who up until the day they cheated would tell you that their religious beliefs would never allow them to do it, but they do. If you are looking for an iron clad guarentee, then I think you are out of luck.<P>Yes, your H has had several affairs, but has he had one since you found out about them? Has he had the opportunity? I suspect the answer is no and yes. You cannot get that guarentee you want. You seem to have two choices trust him or not. Which will make you feel better?<P>I know it is easier to trust a man who hasn't cheated on you, but every cheating man was one of those once. Now a track record should not be ignored, but neither should changes in the spouses perspective, behavior, and awareness. They count also.<P>So it seems to me, you have all the guarentee you will ever have, but you have done a lot to help protect your marriage. It sounds as if H has done so as well. Rejoice in that and enjoy life. You don't need to cross the next infidelity bridge until you come upon it and you may very well may never see that bridge. <P>I surely pray that you don't.<P>God Bless,<P>JL

Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 101
M
Member
Offline
Member
M
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 101
Schizzo-<BR>I think the responses to your question have helped me understand my H's jealously, somewhat. He tells me that he thinks he's not worthy of me, that he has no business being with me. Given the visually oriented male psyche, I can see into his blurry mind a bit.<BR>I used to be a model. I'm into my 30's now, but I've stayed in shape. I've been compared to Michelle Pfieffer and Rene Russo many times. When I have been at the supermarket or K-mart, etc, I have been stopped by men who seem to have just been struck stupid and they range from asking directions to the toothpaste aisle to just blurting out some stupid line. Some of these I remember:<BR>"You're the most beautiful woman I've ever seen. Will you marry me?"<BR>From a pair of teenage boys (?!)<BR>"Wow, lady, you've got the greated legs I've ever seen! Are you a dancer?"<BR>Other times, I just get followed up and down the aisles by some creepy middle-aged man who pauses his cart every time I need to get something from the bottom shelf.<BR>Given that my H probably understands the male visual thing, he feels that I have to run a minefield daily. He said "Every time I see you, I just want to screw your brains out! Look at you! I can't be the only one who feels that way."<BR>H also knows that I love to make love, and I have few inhibitions. We've played little games, made home movies, played dressup, and we both have a good time. Now he thinks my eagerness for him means I'd be eager for anyone. <BR>By the way, I understand the constant fantasy thing. I'd say 10 to 20 times a day, I just let myself have a little naughty daydream, and it doesn't have to be my husband in my head. IT can be Brad Pitt, the UPS man, or my dentist. The point is, it's only in my head! My H couldn't handle that. He tells me he doesn't ever let himself think about other women. But he reads Playboy! (So do I. The cartoons are funny.)<BR>Is the visual thing what makes men jealous? They don't trust one another? Or they don't trust their wives? <BR>Any feedback? His jealously is rapidly destroying my love for him.

Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 150
G
Member
Offline
Member
G
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 150
I've been away for a bit and just reading this post...I know it's for men but I have learned some interesting things about men's lust and desire recently that I am finding very interesting and enlightening...<P>I have recently met many divorced, seperated, or divorcing men in the last few weeks...kinda a support group for broken hearts...something I have found is that men do - have that 'tongue hanging out' lust feeling for a woman that attracts them and although they react initially in that way - what they really want is to LOVE a woman - I've found more men that want to be gentle and tender with a woman they are attracted to and just be close - sex or not.....<P>The men I have met WANT to tell you about how they feel in their heart - they actually will freely open their hearts to a woman - that was a new experience for me as my H is very emotionless. And - what they say is that they want to just love a woman - it is a very intense feeling for them. They find the closeness very erotic.<P>The most interesting part of this is that these are young men - when I was young - I only remember the lust/dominate attitude - but the younger generation is definitely enlightened and really want the intense intimacy with a woman...:-)<P>That left me feeling very happy...now if more woman could open themselves up to recieving that intense feeling of connection (and I don't mean this as a slam - just an observation)(sometimes - me included - we close ourselves off to that intense close feeling because we have been hurt - atleast in my case) I think marriages would be healthy, happier and longer lived....<P>Just ramblings about some of my recent experiences......<P>J

Joined: Aug 1999
Posts: 15,284
J
Member
Offline
Member
J
Joined: Aug 1999
Posts: 15,284
Mourning,<P>Oh! Men trust other men. [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com] They trust them to try to try and make it with their W. The question in their mind is someone catch my W at a weak moment? A moment when she is mad at me, dissatisfied with me? <P>So to my mind it isn't that he doesn't trust you. He doesn't trust that he can keep you happy and satisfied. Yeah, it is a self esteem thing, coupled with the knowledge that your looks will attract alot of men. Solution take his fears as a compliment for in many ways they are.<P>Just keep loving and being faithful and it will work out.<P>God Bless,<P>JL

Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 101
M
Member
Offline
Member
M
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 101
Just Learning-<BR>I would take his jealously as a compliment if he weren't so psychotic about it! I have been posting details on the Resolving Conflict message board. My topic is "How much violence is acceptable?" Read that, and you'll understand I don't feel complimented!<BR>He has become increasingly unstable and accusatory during our marriage, to the point where he has made me physically afraid of him at times.<BR>STill, these insights help me a bit. It's funny, I have several male friends from college who tell me that I think like a man. Maybe!

Page 1 of 2 1 2

Moderated by  Fordude 

Link Copied to Clipboard
Forum Search
Who's Online Now
1 members (Parm), 67 guests, and 44 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
cbm800, Dodo M, Kingpin, MikaylaVaux, I.P.
71,728 Registered Users
Forum Statistics
Forums67
Topics133,546
Posts2,322,790
Members71,729
Most Online3,185
Jan 27th, 2020
Building Marriages That Last A Lifetime
Copyright © 1995-2020, Marriage Builders®. All Rights Reserved.  |  Web Development by SunStar Media.
Site Navigation
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5