<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by heartache:<BR><B>The whole subject of infidelity gets me going much too easily.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Oh heartache, the whole reason this site exists is because of how infidelity gets us <B>all</B> going. I wish with all my heart that none of us had a reason to be here.<P>Slightly Sane<BR>

Dear Leilana:<P>Once again our thoughts are in sync. I feel just the same as you do. And, OWH in our situation, is just as big an @$$ (if not bigger) than your OWH...hard to believe, huh?<P>In fact, at one point (long ago), I was even feeling sorry for OW.<P>My H was like, "See, see Marie! See what she has to deal with..."<P>And, I was thinking, "Geesh, no wonder she thinks my H is a god."<P>And, I thought, "OMG! How could I ever *need* my H MORE than OW needs my H??????" After all, I'm pretty self sufficient...but then again, <B>HE'S MY H, AND I DON'T WANT TO SHARE!!!!!!! </B><P>Oh, I hear you...and once again I'm nodding my head and screaming at my computer screen, YES, YES, YES!<P>Hang in there, ~Marie

Not only no, but H E double toothpicks NO!<P>The best thing this guy could do would be to disappear from our lives altogether.<P>He has caused enough pain to me and my children. Any contact would only bring it up again.<P>Not that she is interested in getting back together, anyway.

To Leilana:<BR>I never said I felt sorry for the OW.<BR>I said I felt sorry for the Husband of the<BR>OW who had to see your Husband in the<BR>community. Please reread my original post.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Leilana:<BR><B>F A I asked if it would help. Ok, I got that it won't. But if not, I asked, what would help?</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>What would help? That is a tough question. It's a tough question because what was going to be helped was never really defined. If the OM was to call me now and apologize, and I mean a sincere apology, an apology without all the justifications and excuses. He would have to apologize not only for FU#$%$# my wife, but also for basically telling me that he used her because he was a "man" and that I would have done the same thing if I was him. He would have to apologize for threatening me and talking to me like I was some guy off the street that had did him wrong for no reason. He would also have to apologize to me for talking to me about my wife like I was one of his buddies sitting around in a lockerroom. That would probably help in regards to me wanting to do physical harm to him if I ever saw him, it wouldn't stop me from fantasizing about it, but it would stop me from actually doing it. <P>As far as helping with the pain that comes with infidelity, no, an apology from the OM would not help with that in the least bit.<P>Having my W's respect is important to me, but admittedly it is not at the top of the list of things that I want or need, at this point in time. My self-respect is more important to me at this time, it is more important for me to do the "right thing", such as continue to care for my children, continue to protect them from this mess that has been created, to continue to try to improve as a husband, to continue to work towards saving a badly damaged marriage, those are the things that are most important to me, I don't do those things for my W's respect, it is up to my W to respect those things that I do and what I stand for. If she loses respect for me because I want to beat the SH$# out of a guy that used her and disrespected me and my family, despite everything else that I have done and stood for, then so be it. That may sound somewhat cold-hearted, but at this point in time, that is how I feel about it.<P>I also didn't think that Leilana and I were fighting, I like better the term that she used, "braintwisting". <P>I also consider Leilana a friend, and if you can't give honest thoughts and opinions to a friend, without it being considered fighting, than WHO can you give honest thoughts and opinions too?

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bryanp:<BR><B>I can only imagine the<BR>pain that the OW' husband must feel every<BR>time he sees your husband. It would be like a<BR>knife going through his heart everytime there<BR>is visual contact with your husband. I feel<BR>sorry for this man <I>and his wife.</I> </B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Ok, explain to me how I misinterpreted this again? <P>That's ok, Brynp--the point is mute anyway-I have no right to tell you who to not feel sorry for anyway, right?<P>And even <I>I</I> have felt sorry for her being married to that H of hers--but think staying with him for the money and security is wacked.<P>So sorry, my bad. But you did type it so I thought you meant it and I reacted. Damn those reflexes of mine! <P>------------------<BR>"When I want your opinion, I'll give it to you"<P><p>[This message has been edited by Leilana (edited October 04, 2000).]

Marie,<P>My twin, separated at birth! <P> Sounds like you're having a little to much fun on that computer of yours!<P>Somedays I think you're the good twin and I'm the evil one! <P>

I read your post regarding an OM apology, and, as a betrayed husband, my first thought was like the other men who have posted, “the only note I would like to receive from the OM is a suicide note”. However, in rereading your post I believe that actually you have asked the wrong question. The question is not how writing such a note will impact the husband of the OW, the real question is whether it is the right thing for your husband to do. Does it help you heal your marriage? Does it help him come to grips with his guilt? Does it bring closure to the episode? If it helps you and your husband in those ways, then it is worth doing. The betrayed husband has to deal with his feelings. He may not accept the apology as sincere. He may not want the apology because it is easier to place all the guilt on the OM instead of on his wife. But he must focus on salvaging his marriage by focusing on his marriage, not by continuing to focus on the ended affair. All of us are wherever we are. It doesn’t matter much what we could have done 12 months ago to avoid being here, we are here. The important step is in accepting where you are and focusing on how to get where you want to be 12 months from now. It sounds like you and your husband are trying to work on your love for each other. If a part of that work is an apology, then that is something that should be done. Don’t do it to appease the betrayed husband, because it won’t, but it may help you and your husband move forward. As far as not being able to avoid this other couple, somebody may have to move or get a new job, because the pain and anger is not going to go away. Probably not ever.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B>“the only note I would like to receive from the OM is a suicide note”.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>LOL.....that was pretty good. Yes this would make things much, much better. <P>

I got an appology from OM (ex-best friend). Actually we ended up I held him in my arms while he cryed on my chest and appologized orver and over. It felt better for me because at that time I was ready to forgive him. If it had happened before I was ready, I would have killed him. That is not an exageration nor a figure of speach; if he had come to me before I told him too, he would be dead and I would be on Death's Row.<P>I think the two things that made it acceptable to me were that <B><I>I</I></B> was in control of the situation and also that I was ready to forgive him.<p>[This message has been edited by Joe in TX (edited October 05, 2000).]

Joe, you're still here! I remember you and think of you fondly! You were one who answered my very first post here. Hope you are still doing well. Eutopia never happened in my corner of the world as it did in yours.<P>Everybody, I know I posted my question badly here. I meant to ask if there was anything that could be done to bring some peace to this situation. I gather the answer is nothing. The OW's H isn't dealing well with anything. I guess it won't take much to push him over the edge so we'll just have to refrain from any letter or contact with him. <P>When you guys post answers to my question, of course you are basing it on your own excruciatingly painful experiences. I have been having a real hard time reading your angry responses. One, because I feel that hatred directed at my husband ("Hey! That's my H you're wanting to see twisting in the wind!) who loves me and is nothing at all like any of your OM, and two, because your wives are OW TO ME and you don't see me wanting to see them suffering or dying a fiery death or everything else you describe just because they are OW. <P> I don't wish that of OUR OW and SHE was the instigator of the whole affair. (AND I know EVERY gory detail from my repentant H and separately from her!) Hell, she STILL wants him! But I still wave to her and wish that her heart heals and her head starts thinking right...<P> But I asked for the input and honest feelings are what I got. And I do thank you all for your earnest responses. <P>Honestly, I do feel like we need to move or change jobs but that wish is slow in coming. It just sickens me that I've done nothing wrong and yet have to live with this hate surrounding me daily--or uproot my life and move all because of the way he chooses to react (it is a choice, you know). This sucks bigtime. <P>Thanks guys, sincerely, <P>Leilana <p>[This message has been edited by Leilana (edited October 06, 2000).]

Dear Leilana,<P>I didn't reply to the thread earlier when it was still 'alive' because I don't think it is my perspective you are looking for.<P>Anyhow, since you have done the thanking for the answers, I would like to add something I hope may shed some light on the situation. Apart from the OW not being repentant and the marriage being a sham even before the A, I think the OWH's gets very jealous and enraged everytime he sees that you and your H are on such good terms. It may appear to him that your marriage is not even dented by the A let alone damaged whereas his marriage sucks big time. Although you have all good intentions when you wave to the OW, I trust that the OWH cannot fathom your forgiveness in light of her 'stealing' your H. <P>Perhaps, he is further agonised that your H can make two women happy whatever the circumstances, and he feels the big time loser in every way. It is sad but there seems to be no winner for the betrayed, whether men or women.<P>God Loves You<BR>weep

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Leilana:<BR><B>I have been having a real hard time reading your angry responses. One, because I feel that hatred directed at my husband ("Hey! That's my H you're wanting to see twisting in the wind!) who loves me and is nothing at all like any of your OM, and two, because your wives are OW TO ME and you don't see me wanting to see them suffering or dying a fiery death or everything else you describe just because they are OW.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Ouch. <P>Your perspective has been noted, and my attitude is being adjusted. I'm so sorry to have added to your pain.<P>Trying to find the words...<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B>This sucks bigtime.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Yeah, those are the words.<P><BR>Slightly Sane<BR><p>[This message has been edited by o2bsane (edited October 06, 2000).]

Leilana - I certainly didn't mean to direct any ill will towards your husband. So I am sorry if I caused you any pain by my comments. I fully realize that there are WS/OP who are sorry and truly remorseful for what they have done and the pain that they have caused others, this board has definitely helped me to see that. The feelings and opinions that I was expressing was strictly about the OM in my situation, a person who has shown no remorse or guilt, a person who has only shown concern about covering his own a$$ and was angered by being exposed as the coward that he is.

weep, you insightful thing you! I'm sure he does feel all those things you said. I know he does. But he also used to call me on my cell phone or e-mail me constantly after d-day to asess how OUR marriage was doing as reassurance that my H wasn't going to become single and available to his W. What used to be a mild comfort is now a comparative aggravation, so you're dead on--on all counts...damned if we're in recovery, damned if we're not. As a nurse, it's just frustrating that I can't HEAL this.<P>(Perhaps I should e-mail him a page from your anger management thread! Just kidding, but I wish someone would! I loved it, by the way.)<P>Hey, don't hesitate, feel free to jump in at anytime, Hon. I have really enjoyed your point of view on alot of these threads.<P>And o2bsane,<P>You're a sweetheart. Thanks.<P>L

I know, F A. It's ok. I expressed how it hurt and now I feel better. Wish everything was that easy.<P>Was it this thread that started off those negative feelings you mentioned? Ick, if it was, <I>I'm</I> sorry.<P>L<P><p>[This message has been edited by Leilana (edited October 06, 2000).]

An apology would help me to practice my karate but apart from that, no, it would not help.<P>------------------<BR>Prayers & God Bless!<BR>Chris<BR>For relationship info check out <A HREF="http://www.pcisys.net/~chriscal1/resources.html" TARGET=_blank>Marriage & Relationship Resources</A>