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#889216 10/08/00 10:52 AM
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OK I have a major problem. I know something is wrong , I'm just not sure what.<P>Mike stopped kissing me execpt for a quick peck about 3 months ago. No real kisses, not even before or during sex. NONE !<P>And sex is like maybe every two or three weeks if I'm lucky. Oh and if I touch him he tells me not to grope him. Aarrrggghhhhh!<P>It feels like he's cheating again ! He says he's not (where have I heard that before ? Oh yeah, 2 years ago when he was cheating).<P>This hurts and I don't know what to do. I have talked to him about it, tried to explain how it makes me feel, he just refuses to do it. I don't have trench mouth or anything. I just don't understand, and he doesn't seem to care how much I need this from him.<P>Sometimes I wish I could do like he did and go find someone to give me that. But the thought makes me ill. <P>------------------<BR>Deb<P>Hepatitis C, Please educate yourself ! <A HREF="http://www.hepatitis-central.com/<P>In" TARGET=_blank>http://www.hepatitis-central.com/<P>In</A> memory of a very dear friend <A HREF="http://fathom.org/teemingmillions/wally.adp" TARGET=_blank>http://fathom.org/teemingmillions/wally.adp</A>

#889217 10/08/00 11:00 PM
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Kissing is something intimate. Not like sex that can be done haphazardly he tells me. I'm so sorry you aren't getting what you need. Something doesn't sound right, maybe he isn't cheating again (hope not) but there might be something else going on with him that he doesn't want to open up to you in that way. If you guys were in counseling you could bring it up there and he would have to answer in some way. I know what you mean about wishing you could just do what they did, but it wouldn't make anything better, and we wouldn't get what we want from that anyway. Keep on trying - are you doing the 10 second kiss thing? That might make it a little easier to transition to where you want to be. Our shrink told us years ago that if we wanted to be married we had to at least pretend we liked each other. It did work. hugs to you, and I'd kiss you if I could!

#889218 10/08/00 01:10 PM
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i remember, a LONG time ago, at the beginning of this never-ending affair...when H would not kiss me at all. when i went to hug him, and he'd pull away, when he'd have sex with me and close his eyes as tight as he could...<BR>deb, it sucked, i hated it, and it hurt like daggers. now, after what you've been through, it probably hurts like dull, rusty daggers. i am so sorry.<BR>please just plan A him the best you can and tough it out.<BR>big huge enormous bear hugs,<BR>julie<BR>ps-stbx and i are separated and im planning to file, probably next week...he's just gotten WAY to crazy. at least he's supporting me and the kids really well till i can get a job and get settled.

#889219 10/08/00 01:56 PM
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Deb,<P>Oh honey, I am so sorry that you are going through this. I don't have any real advise for you. Just mostly wanted you to know the lurking me has read, and really cares. I will for sure lift you up in prayer and light one of my candles for you.<P>You know what to do, you know how to apply the tactics and advise this site has. Get to doing a heavy plan A. I wish I had more advise. E-mail if you need to or want to. I am always here to read, heck I am real good to vent at. Samantha7x70@aol.com <P>I remember you from early on when I first came to this site. You helped me and encouraged me a whole bunch. I would like to return the favor.<P>Oh yeah, geeze, I forgot the most important advise I can give anyone. Pray, pray and pray some more. When you are tired of praying and think you can't pray anymore...pray again. The good Lord got me through this. He is there for you too. <P>I remember being on my knees in grief and crying out to the Lord to help me. I was in total dispair. You know what??? He helped me big time and carried me when I felt I couldn't walk another step. He will do that for you too. He loves you Deb.<P>I love you Deb, so many of us here do. Keep up your faith and hope. Another rocky road to be sure, but at the end of this part of the journey you will be stronger, wiser and have much to give others.<P>I don't feel like I have helped much? Please know I am here.<P>Hugs,<BR>{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{DEB}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}<P>------------------<BR><B>God bless you and all of us. We are all going to make it, all of us! [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com] With God on our side we can't lose! [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com] What God has joined together let no man put asunder. <P>Samantha</B><BR><p>[This message has been edited by A blessed Samantha (edited October 08, 2000).]

#889220 10/08/00 02:20 PM
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Hi Deb:<P>I remember when I first came here how wonderful your advise to everyone seemed. It's so hard to see good people going through this over and over again.<P>Your H's actions are strange....maybe it's another affair...maybe not. That limbo feeling again. Marriage is suppose to be the closest relationship you can have in your life yet sometimes it feels like there is a raging river between you...with no way to bridge the two. There is a way, of course...total honesty. He may think he is protecting you from more hurt...he's not...and you have to make him realize that.<BR>Whatever is wrong...you are strong enough to face it now. And it really is the best way for him to resolve whatever is bothering him...to get you to share it. You might not like it, but at least it's out in the open where it can be deal with.<P>If you can't get him to open up, then you must continue to make him feel like you're on his side...whether the problem is....and you're there to help if he needs you. Meanwhile you will continue to Plan A. <P>Our prayers are with you.<P>Faye

#889221 10/08/00 08:00 PM
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{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{Deb}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}<P>Not much more I can say ... I'm sorry.<P>------------------<BR>terri<BR><B>Courage</B><P>Whatever course you decide upon,<BR>there is always someone to tell you<BR>that you are wrong.<P>There are always difficulties arising<BR>which tempt you to believe that your <BR>critics are right.<P>To map out a course of action <BR>and follow it to an end <BR>requires courage.<P><I>Ralph Waldo Emerson</I>

#889222 10/08/00 08:37 PM
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Justthewife<BR>10 second kiss ? Ha ! He won't get near my face for that long. <P>lwb,<BR>I saw your post about that and just didn't know what to say. At least you gave it all you had. I just want to run away from home.<P>Samantha,<BR>Yes, just knowing people are seeing this and they care does help. Too often I have no idea what to say anymore when someone comes here hurting. Plan A ? Hmmm, I'm about sick to death of plan A in this situation. Around here it seems I must accept that this is what my life will be or I can leave he isn't going to change. <P>Buffy<BR>I don't know how to make him see anything. He is a major conflict avoider anyway. Anytime something is wrong I don't hear about it until it's too late to fix it. :sigh: Sometimes this man drives me insane.<P>Terri,<BR>It seems like hugs is all any of us can do for each other at times. I appricate them, even cyber hugs are more than I get here. [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]<p>[This message has been edited by Bozos_ Deb (edited October 09, 2000).]

#889223 10/09/00 01:02 AM
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Deb:<P>This is so horrible for you; you've been through so much and you and Mike have been up and down and all around the spin cycle.<P>I wish I had some advice, but I don't. I went through that period for several months in late 1998 and early 1999. I couldn't understand why he wasn't crazy in love with me anymore, why he suddenly could stay away from me...I was baffled.<P>Eat a popsicle slowly in front of him. It inspired my husband. !<P>Catnip =^^=

#889224 10/09/00 01:41 AM
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Catnip,<P>It won't work. I think I have one of the few h's in the world who is not turned on by anything that suggests oral sex to him. He is into giving it but not recieving. <P>So what's plan 2

#889225 10/09/00 06:25 AM
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Hi, Honey, I've missed you.<P>What did Mike SAY when you asked him about it? Did he have any reason at all or use the normal response (at least for MY hubby when he doesn't want to face something) that it's not like that at all, you're just imagining it?<P>I'm so sorry...you've dealt with enough. Glad you know we love you.<P>Love,<P>Lori

#889226 10/09/00 07:02 AM
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Dear DebB<P>I am very sorry that this is something that really hurts. It is so ironic in that those of us who want the intimacy doesn't get it and those of us who doesn't want are pestered for it. Then when all stabilises, the sexual relationship still has the stench of the A. It WIIL TAKE TIME and prayers.<P>I think your H is going through resentment - I can't say for sure what sort of resentment but I believe he might be withholding his love from you to 'punish' you for something he feels isn't going his way. The best thing to do would be to live a full life filled with your own vitality and God's grace, and pray that he will fall in love with you again. Pray also that he will grow out of this mode which could stem from selfishness or his other motives.<P>love<BR>weep<BR>

#889227 10/09/00 08:06 AM
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((((((((((((Deb))))))))))))))<P>just to echo Lori here....what has Mike to say about this?...<P>could it perhaps be an adverse reaction on his part to what happened to your face with those new meds a little while ago??.....I know, I know...a little 'off' ...but it was just a thought...<P>and lastly, my wonderful, giving, great friend, have you snooped..?...<P>oh, come on, we all know it's one of the first things your mindset shifts to...'he/she might be at it again'...so, we look for the evidence...is there any ??<P>sending you good thoughts...<P>------------------<BR>"The journey into darkness has been long and cruel, and you have gone deep into it."<BR>~ A Course in Miracles

#889228 10/09/00 10:12 AM
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I am so sorry that this is making you sad.<P>Could it be that your H is stressed about your illness (because he loves you, of course) and he is unconsiously distancing himself from you to protect his own feelings?<P>Or even a more simple explaination is that the stress he feels over your illness just makes him feel less initmate? In fact, I guess the stress wouldn't have to be related to your illness at all...is there anything else stressful going on in his life?<P>I hope he snaps out of it, soon.

#889229 10/09/00 11:14 PM
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<B> Lori </B>, What does he say ? He says nothing is wrong, just kissing is not his favorite thing to do. OK but never more than a peck ? After almost 23 years of getting real kisses at least before during and after sex, he suddenly announces he doesn't like it now ?<P><B> Weep </B>, I asked if he was upset with me for something, he says not. Vitality ? That's gone and probably will not return for several months due to the treatment I am on for HepC.<P><B> Dylan </B>, nope, this started before I ever went on treatment. Have I snooped ? What do you think ? Honey I have been in his email like a crazy woman. The only time he could be cheating is during his lunch break at work, since this is exactly how he carried on his last affair, well that isn't very comforting. Plus he works with a tram err woman who was caught with another male co-worker in the parking lot one night by the guys wife. The guy ended the affair and quit his job that night and went home to wife. So of course there is now a wounded woman around and we know mike has the knight in shining armor thing going on.<P><B> FH&L </B>, it's possible he is stressed, but I'm stressed too, and feeling rejected at such an intimate leval isn't making it better. <P>I'm sorry guys I've kept quiet about this for over 3 months now, and just couldn't stay quiet anymore.

#889230 10/09/00 11:45 PM
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Deb,<P>I've been following your story over the past year that I have been here and just wanted to offer my support, prayers and hugs...<P>I'm so sorry you have had so much to deal with and can only imagine the stress and grief you experience everyday due to Mike's infidelity in the past. On top of that you now have the fear of him being unfaithful again to deal with; that is too much for you to deal with on your own.<P>Don't be sorry that you came to the board with this. I am sorry that you felt you had too keep it to yourself for so long.<P>God Bless Deb<P>Hugs to you<P>{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{DEB}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}<P>------------------<BR>Love and Prayers<BR>Nicole [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]<P><p>[This message has been edited by Patient Love (edited October 09, 2000).]

#889231 10/09/00 12:13 PM
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Dear Deb,<BR>I've always enjoyed your sense of humor, irony and wit. I am in the same place as you, maybe worse. My H doesn't kiss me on the lips, hasn't since March '99. He submits to an occasional peck (dry, like you would give a relative you were too close to to be sexual with). <P>And of course, no sexual contact since June '99. <P>I'd be looking for evidence of an affair. In our case, there's complete avoidance by my H of anything that might be considered "foreplay" (holding each other, stroking my hair, massages, footrubs,) are all verbotten activities in our home. And Nope, no affair. None. Just a "Good Friend" - but by now I'm sure you're familiar with our story.<P>Empathy, sympathy, and a hug to you.<BR><P>------------------<BR>Belle, Domestic Goddess

#889232 10/09/00 05:32 PM
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hi deb, Nice to see you around again and thanks for the e-mail boosters!<BR>Hmmm mike has something else going on. I doubt he would be screwing around again. He knows how painful it was to you before, and he don't think he would knowingly put you thru pain like that again. <BR>What else is going on? There must be an issue and he just is not facing it or sharing it? He knows he has to TALK! <BR>Since he is not being real open, send him back over here?<BR>Now to play the other side....maybe he is afraid of illness? I know you two have been dealing with this for awhile, but there are still fears he has to conquer. What if he just is feeling depressed and wants to be alone? The part I do not quite understand is the time....why so long without talking to you? Is he sleep deprived? <BR>Just throwing out some ideas. <BR>(((((hugs))))) cl <BR>

#889233 10/09/00 08:08 PM
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Hi Deb, Have not been posting or reading very much this pasts year, I am so sorry to hear that your relationhsip with Mike has not YET worked out for you. Mine still sucks, but I was so sad to find out you are still here too. Our stories have always been similar and here we both are still struggling.. I bought your book "Prayers that Avail Much" triple tri edition. I will once again be praying for you speifically. maybe Mike would be willing to at least give you the verbal reasurance you need to get you through this, if he is being faithful. Iwould like to write to him if you would give me his E mail, and if you do not think it would do more damage.

#889234 10/10/00 02:15 AM
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<B> Paitent Love </B>, I guess the reason I waited so long to post about is I kept hoping that he would see how much it hurt me and things would get better. Stupid of me.<P><B> Belle </B> Not since March of 99 ? OMG my lips would kick me in the butt if I went that long w/o being kissed ! Oh yeah, just good friends, ha. <P><B> cl </B>, he just will not talk. all he does is roll his eyes and walk away from me after he says nothings wrong. Well something is wrong, it hurts me. No he's not sleep deprived. And I asked him about withdrawing because of my illness to protect himself , he says not. And he says he's not mad. So I am lost here.<P><B> lizam </B> I'll ask if it's ok to give you his email. I'm sorry things aren't better for you too.<P>

#889235 10/10/00 05:18 AM
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Deb, will he come back here and talk?<BR>Other thoughts....is he feeling resentment that he can no longer lead his previous life of affiars? Does he feel he is constantly being made the guilty one? <BR>Hmmmm, maybe one frying pan is in order?<BR>((((hugs))))

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