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#892586 11/06/00 11:37 AM
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So how do you figure Bush gets you out of eight years of White House lying? Bush lied about his DWI, he lied on a jury application in Texas about having been busted, he lied about his National Guard service, and he's never yet told us about his substance abuse in college.<P>No one party has a patent on truth, but if you're thinking this intellectually-void good ol' boy will bring Truth, Justice, and the American Way to the White house, guess again, Cochise.<P>Frankly, I'm looking forward to a Republican administration. Maybe now all the Clinton-haters will shut up and find someone else to blame.

#892587 11/06/00 11:46 AM
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Cottonwood,<P>trust me my vote has very little to do with not wanting to see Gore on TV, that's just an extra. I won't vote for him because...<BR>1. He is for killing babies..he values the spotted owl more than an unborn life<BR>2. He is for homosexual marriages <BR>3. He had the most liberal voting record of any senator while in the senate.<BR>4. He is for huge government<BR>5. He will raise taxes<P>I do believe he would bring greater character to the White House than his present boss, he is a family man who loves his wife and children and she is a sharp lady herself. I won't vote for him because of his policies not his personality.

#892588 11/06/00 12:23 PM
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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WilliamJ:<BR><B>Cjack,<P><BR>Corporate welfare is as much rubbish as the Trade Deficit. This a a leftist media tag given to try to continue their class warfare.<P><BR>Bill</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P><BR>Ok, Bill, I'll have to take you on with regards to corporate welfare. I'm a member of the media, and I'm not "leftist," nor are the people I work for. <P>I can point to a form of corporate welfare that has sprung up in recent years that you can't deny: Football stadiums.<P>Here in Phoenix, there is a ballot initiative asking voters to approve a 300 million dollar stadium funded mostly by tax dollars. It is estimated that the Arizona Cardinals (who would get the use of the stadium and all the profits generated therein) would pay about 75 million of that. The rest would be taken from sales taxes on hotels and rental cars. In addition, over 100 million dollars will have to be spent in supporting infrastructure around the stadium, paid for by municipal taxes. Of course, there will be a positive economic impact of having a major sports complex in town, but why should taxes pay for it?<P>In fact, the Cardinals organization threatened to move out of town if they didn't get a taxpayer-funded stadium. That's extortion, plain and simple. But it happened with the Rams, the Colts, the Browns, etc. Our very own Bank One Ballpark in downtown Phoenix was built with tax dollars. The man who owns the team that plays there (Diamondbacks), Jerry Colangelo, is one of the richest men in Arizona, and could damn well have afforded it on his own, but we wound up paying for it. Why should we have to?<P>Another example is Mercedes. They chose to build their plant in Birmingham, Alabama based upon tax credits. They shopped their proposed facility around to a number of different cities, and B'ham was the one that gave them the sweetest deal. Mercedes didn't have to pay a dime for access roads, traffic signals, parking lots, and they got years of tax-free operation. Why should taxpayers have to bribe businesses?<P>Whether you think it's a liberal media conspiracy or not, your tax dollars are going to "prop up" some very profitable private businesses that do not need the help.<BR>

#892589 11/07/00 01:08 AM
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Wow he loves his wife and children! That's gotta be the greatest reason to vote for someone that I have ever heard. So I guess from that I assume that Gore doesn't love his wife and kids? So how are you privy to all this personal info? <P>Yes we are a joke to the rest of world. All this effects our ability to be taken seriously when it comes to issues of foreign policy.<P>

#892590 11/07/00 01:30 AM
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Good point, cjack. And a good segue into this:<P>George W. Bush took a half-million dollar loan to buy a 2% share of the Texas Rangers baseball team. It wasn't hard for him to get this loan because he'd already served on the Board of Directors at the lending bank, United Bank of Midland, TX, according to the <I>Wall Street Journal</I>. This was when he was 34. Although he wasn’t governor then, he used his family's influence to pass a scheme to get an expensive new stadium built for the Rangers, with the City of Arlington fronting the entire bill. [So much for not wanting taxpayers to pay for big projects, eh?] The agreement let the Rangers rent-to-own the $190 million stadium, but it also gave the team the power to purchase it for only $60 million of total rent payments. It seems that the only reason they haven’t done so is<BR>apparently that they don’t want to pay the property tax. This deal was explicitly arranged to use the City’s power of eminent<BR>domain to seize homeowners’ property for the private ballpark.<P>Seize private property? Not our Georgie, you may say. However, that part was proven in court when one evicted family was awarded $4 million in damages. So after floating this expensive deal on the back of a sales tax imposed on Arlington, Bush sells his 2% stake for $14.9 million. That’s about a two thousand percent return on his investment over nine years. <P>Imagine how much money he'll make as president. Pass the collection plate folks. And when your kids are paying off huge deficits again, think about that.

#892591 11/06/00 02:08 PM
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TMD<P>Actually I was speaking of Gore when I said that about his wife and children. From all testimonials that people both republican and democrat that I had heard on some reports had said that. My closing statement was that I would not vote for Gore due to his policies and my vote would have nothing to do with his personality or personal life

#892592 11/06/00 02:11 PM
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...yeah, but isn't it a beautiful ballpark? I especially like the view from Friday's Front Row!<P>

#892593 11/06/00 06:15 PM
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Put me down for Bush. <P>-----------------------------------<BR>Thought you folks would be interested in actual quotes by Al Gore:<P>"If we don't succeed, we run the risk of failure!" --Al Gore<P>"Democrats understand the importance of bondage between a mother and child."<BR>-Vice President Al Gore<P><BR>"Welcome to President Clinton, Mrs. Clinton, and my fellow astronauts."<BR>--Vice President Al Gore<P>"Mars is essentially in the same orbit... Mars is somewhat the same distance from the Sun, which is very important. We have seen<BR>pictures where there are canals, we believe, & water. If there is water, that means there is oxygen. If oxygen, that means we can<BR>breathe."<BR>-Vice President Al Gore, 8/11/94<P>"The Holocaust was an obscene period in our nation's history. I mean in this century's history. But we all lived in this century. I didn't live in this century."<BR>-- Vice President Al Gore, 9/15/95<P>"I believe we are on an irreversible trend toward more freedom and democracy - but that could change." <BR>--Vice President Al Gore, 5/22/98<P>"One word probably sums up the responsibility of any vice president,<BR>and that one word is "to be prepared"." --Vice President Al Gore, 12/6/93<P>"Verbosity leads to unclear, inarticulate things!"<BR>-Vice President Al Gore, 11/30/96<P><BR>"I have made good judgments in the past. I have made good judgments in the future." -Vice President Al Gore<P>"The future will be better tomorrow!"<BR>- Vice President Al Gore<P>"People that are really very weird can get into sensitive positions and have a tremendous impact on history."<BR>-Vice President Al Gore<P>"I stand by all the misstatements that I've made!" -Vice President Al Gore to Sam Donaldson, 8/17/93<P>"We have a firm commitment to NATO, we are a part of NATO. We have a firm commitment to Europe. We are a part of Europe."<BR>-Vice President Al Gore<P>"Public speaking is very easy!"<BR>--Vice President Al Gore to reporters in 10/95<P>"I am not part of the problem. I am a Democrat!"<BR>--Vice President Al Gore<P>"A low voter turnout is an indication of fewer people going to the polls." -Vice President Al Gore<P>"When I have been asked who caused the riots and the killings in L.A., my answer has been direct & simple: Who is to blame for the<BR>riots? The rioters are to blame. Who is to blame for the killings? The killers are to blame."<BR>-Al Gore<P>"Illegitimacy is something we should talk about in terms of not having it." --Vice President Al Gore, 5/20/96<P>"We are ready for any unforeseen event that may or may not occur."<BR>- Vice-President Al Gore, 9/22/97<P>"For NASA, space is still a high priority!"<BR>-Vice President Al Gore, 9/5/93<P>"Quite frankly, teachers are the only profession that teach our children." -Vice President Al Gore, 9/18/95<P>"The American people would not want to know of any misquotes that Al Gore may or may not make." -Vice President Al Gore<P>"We're all capable of mistakes, but I do not care to enlighten you on the mistakes we may or may not have made." <BR>-Vice President Al Gore<P>"It isn't pollution that's harming the environment. It's the impurities in our air and water that are doing it."<BR>-Vice President Al Gore<P>"It's time for the human race to enter the solar system."<BR>-- Vice President Al Gore<P>AND, OF COURSE, THE ALL TIME FAVORITE QUOTATION OF MR. AL GORE:<BR>"As many of you know, I was very instrumental in the founding of the<BR>Internet"<BR>--AL Gore to Katie Couric 3/99<BR>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~<BR>On July 8, 1947, witnesses claim a spaceship with five aliens aboard crashed on a sheep-and-cattle ranch outside Roswell NM, an incident they say has been covered up by the military.<P>On March 31, 1948, almost exactly nine months after that day, Al Gore was born. That clears up a lot of things!<BR>

#892594 11/06/00 06:24 PM
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ROTFLOL

#892595 11/06/00 06:32 PM
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and in the interest of fairness, here's a partial list of some of the bright things Bush has had to say:<P>"The fact that he relies on facts—says things that are not factual—are going to undermine his campaign."—New York Times, March 4, 2000 (Thanks to Garry Trudeau.) <P>"I think we agree, the past is over."—On his meeting with John McCain, Dallas Morning News, May 10, 2000<P>"It's clearly a budget. It's got a lot of numbers in it."--Reuters, May 5, 2000 (Thanks to Allison Fansler.)<P>GOV. BUSH: Because the picture on the newspaper. It just seems so un-American to me, the picture of the guy storming the house with a scared little boy there. I talked to my little brother, Jeb—I haven't told this to many people. But he's the governor of—I shouldn't call him my little brother--my brother, Jeb, the great governor of Texas. <BR>JIM LEHRER: Florida. <BR>GOV. BUSH: Florida. The state of the Florida.—The NewsHour With Jim Lehrer, April 27, 2000<P>"Laura and I really don't realize how bright our children is sometimes until we get an objective analysis."—Meet the Press, April 15, 2000<P>"You subscribe politics to it. I subscribe freedom to it."—Responding to a question about whether he and Al Gore were making the Elián González case a political issue. In Palm Beach, Fla., as quoted by the Associated Press, April 6, 2000 (Thanks to Helen Kennedy.)<P>"I was raised in the West. The west of Texas. It's pretty close to California. In more ways than Washington, D.C., is close to California."—In Los Angeles as quoted by the Los Angeles Times, April 8, 2000 <P>"Reading is the basics for all learning."—Announcing his "Reading First" initiative in Reston, Va., March 28, 2000 (Thanks to Carl LaRocca.)<P>"We want our teachers to be trained so they can meet the obligations, their obligations as teachers. We want them to know how to teach the science of reading. In order to make sure there's not this kind of federal—federal cufflink."—At Fritsche Middle School, Milwaukee, March 30, 2000 <P>"Other Republican candidates may retort to personal attacks and negative ads."—Fund-raising letter from George W. Bush, quoted in the Washington Post, March 24, 2000 <P><BR>"People make suggestions on what to say all the time. I'll give you an example; I don't read what's handed to me. People say, 'Here, here's your speech, or here's an idea for a speech.' They're changed. Trust me."—Interview with the New York Times, March 15, 2000<P>"It's evolutionary, going from governor to president, and this is a significant step, to be able to vote for yourself on the ballot, and I'll be able to do so next fall, I hope."—In an interview with the Associated Press, March 8, 2000 (Thanks to Joshua Micah Marshall.) <P>"It is not Reaganesque to support a tax plan that is Clinton in nature.''—Los Angeles, Feb. 23, 2000<P>"I understand small business growth. I was one."—New York Daily News, Feb. 19, 2000 <P>"The senator has got to understand if he's going to have—he can't have it both ways. He can't take the high horse and then claim the low road."—To reporters in Florence, S.C., Feb. 17, 2000<P>"I thought how proud I am to be standing up beside my dad. Never did it occur to me that he would become the gist for cartoonists."—ibid.<P>"If you're sick and tired of the politics of cynicism and polls and principles, come and join this campaign."—Hilton Head, S.C., Feb. 16, 2000<P>"How do you know if you don't measure if you have a system that simply suckles kids through?"—Explaining the need for educational accountability in Beaufort, S.C., Feb. 16, 2000<P>"We ought to make the pie higher."—South Carolina Republican Debate, Feb. 15, 2000<P>"I do not agree with this notion that somehow if I go to try to attract votes and to lead people toward a better tomorrow somehow I get subscribed to some—some doctrine gets subscribed to me."—Meet The Press, Feb. 13, 2000 <P>"I've changed my style somewhat, as you know. I'm less—I pontificate less, although it may be hard to tell it from this show. And I'm more interacting with people."—ibid<P>"I think we need not only to eliminate the tollbooth to the middle class, I think we should knock down the tollbooth."—Nashua, N.H., as quoted by Gail Collins in the New York Times, Feb. 1, 2000<P>"The most important job is not to be governor, or first lady in my case."—Pella, Iowa, as quoted by the San Antonio Express-News, Jan. 30, 2000<P>"Will the highways on the Internet become more few?"—Concord, N.H., Jan. 29, 2000<P>"This is Preservation Month. I appreciate preservation. It's what you do when you run for president. You gotta preserve."—Speaking during "Perseverance Month" at Fairgrounds Elementary School in Nashua, N.H. As quoted in the Los Angeles Times, Jan. 28, 2000<P>"I know how hard it is for you to put food on your family."—Greater Nashua, N.H., Chamber of Commerce, Jan. 27, 2000<P>"What I am against is quotas. I am against hard quotas, quotas they basically delineate based upon whatever. However they delineate, quotas, I think vulcanize society. So I don't know how that fits into what everybody else is saying, their relative positions, but that's my position.''—Quoted by Molly Ivins, the San Francisco Chronicle, Jan. 21, 2000 (Thanks to Toni L. Gould.)<P>"When I was coming up, it was a dangerous world, and you knew exactly who they were," he said. "It was us vs. them, and it was clear who them was. Today, we are not so sure who the they are, but we know they're there."—Iowa Western Community College, Jan 21, 2000<P>"The administration I'll bring is a group of men and women who are focused on what's best for America, honest men and women, decent men and women, women who will see service to our country as a great privilege and who will not stain the house."—Des Moines Register debate, Iowa, Jan. 15, 2000<P>"This is still a dangerous world. It's a world of madmen and uncertainty and potential mential losses."—At a South Carolina oyster roast, as quoted in the Financial Times, Jan. 14, 2000<P>"We must all hear the universal call to like your neighbor just like you like to be liked yourself."—ibid.<P>"Rarely is the question asked: Is our children learning?"—Florence, S.C., Jan. 11, 2000<P>"Gov. Bush will not stand for the subsidation of failure."—ibid.<P>"There needs to be debates, like we're going through. There needs to be town-hall meetings. There needs to be travel. This is a huge country."—Larry King Live, Dec. 16, 1999<P>"I read the newspaper."—In answer to a question about his reading habits, New Hampshire Republican Debate, Dec. 2, 1999<P>"I think it's important for those of us in a position of responsibility to be firm in sharing our experiences, to understand that the babies out of wedlock is a very difficult chore for mom and baby alike. ... I believe we ought to say there is a different alternative than the culture that is proposed by people like Miss Wolf in society. ... And, you know, hopefully, condoms will work, but it hasn't worked."—Meet the Press, Nov. 21, 1999<P>"The students at Yale came from all different backgrounds and all parts of the country. Within months, I knew many of them."—From A Charge To Keep, by George W. Bush, published November 1999<P>"It is incredibly presumptive for somebody who has not yet earned his party's nomination to start speculating about vice presidents."—Keene, N.H., Oct. 22, 1999, quoted in the New Republic, Nov. 15, 1999<P>"The important question is, How many hands have I shaked?"—Answering a question about why he hasn't spent more time in New Hampshire, in the New York Times, Oct. 23, 1999<P>"I don't remember debates. I don't think we spent a lot of time debating it. Maybe we did, but I don't remember."—On discussions of the Vietnam War when he was an undergraduate at Yale, Washington Post, July 27, 1999<P>"The only thing I know about Slovakia is what I learned first-hand from your foreign minister, who came to Texas."—To a Slovak journalist as quoted by Knight Ridder News Service, June 22, 1999. Bush's meeting was with Janez Drnovsek, the prime minister of Slovenia.<P>"If the East Timorians decide to revolt, I'm sure I'll have a statement."—Quoted by Maureen Dowd in the New York Times, June 16, 1999<P>"It was just inebriating what Midland was all about then."—From a 1994 interview, as quoted in First Son, by Bill Minutaglio <P> <P>

#892596 11/06/00 07:06 PM
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I love both collections of quotes; just shows how idiotic anyone can sound if all of their words are being transcribed each and every day.<P>Put me down for Gore, I suppose, in what Bill Safire calls a "clothespin vote" (because you need a clothespin on your nose to avoid the stink).<P>In all fairness, though, virtually every one of the quotes purportedly from Gore are actually from one of my favorite Republicans of the past decade or so -- Danforth Quayle. Run any one of them through a common search engine, and I think you'll agree. <P>Take care everyone. And REMEMBER TO VOTE!

#892597 11/06/00 11:14 PM
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Bush did not lie. No one ever asked him about it. So where was the lie? Even the Gore people and the liberals on the TV admit he didn't lie. Now how about Gores dogs scrip costing more than his MIL's? Even his own people had to admit he made that up! Just sounded good I guess. Also Gore got a special appt. to be a photographer in VC because of his Daddy. What a daaaannngerous assignment, a photographer. Please! Gore supports abortion on demand right up until birth. I support abortion during the first trimester. I don't like it but I can compromise there. Anyone who can support partial birth abortion like Gore does is not fit to be President in my opinion. And I'll be voting for Bush tomorrow. He may not be perfect but he has the guts to say that Partial Birth Abortion is wrong. That says alot about his character to me.

#892598 11/06/00 11:43 PM
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CJACK,<P> How would you like to be living in Cincinnati, paying for a stadium for the Bungles (no typo). Brown held the city hostage.<P>

#892599 11/07/00 07:28 AM
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it ain't much of a selection, but...<P>Gotta be Bush.<P>Why? I am nasueated by Gore's pompous, arrogant know-it-all attitude, his condescending manner of speaking, and especially his "celebration" of Clinton after the impeachment vote. Ack! He's a spineless liar.<P>One issue I wish W would have played up more is the surplus. The decision of what should be done with the surplus money highlights the difference in philosophy between democrats and republicans. W's answer need only have been 4 words: "<B>whose money is it?</B>"<P>Gore's BS about Bush spending the surplus on tax cuts for the "wealthiest 1%" is just class warfare rhetoric. Everyone who overpaid should get back the amount that they overpaid. That simple. It is not the government's money. Even if they can comeup with a "worthy" use for it - it isn't theirs to spend. If you had a restaurant bill of $15 and you gave them $20 and they said "We have a good use for that extra $5" would you allow this? No! Not even if they kept it in a "lock-box" [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]<P>That being said, Bush is no prize. But a Gore presidency MUST be prevented.<p>[This message has been edited by 2sad4words (edited November 07, 2000).]

#892600 11/07/00 08:42 AM
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Cjack,<P>Which arm of the media do you work? Newspaper..TV..Radio?? Who did your paper/station endorse?<P>Oh and the retoric you have espoused kinda made my point about the liberal media. [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]<P>That's all right...I still love ya Buddy...<P>Take care,<P>Bill

#892601 11/07/00 11:17 AM
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Registered Democrat, voting for Bush. I'm pro choice at its very most conseravtive. I think the "choice" needs to be before getting in bed, and abortion as birth control is abysmal behavior. Abortion for rape, incest & mother's life is a very small percentage of abortions and completely acceptable. <P>I watched all 3 debates, not because I was undecided, more because I wanted to be assured of my choice, I am not a one issue voter. I found Bush's answers to be the answers to the questions asked, and closer to what I wanted to hear. Gore was more likely than Bush to answer or redirect to a question he was not asked.<P>Many of the town hall debate questioners in my opinion asked questions that were liberally phrased & easy for Gore, difficult for Bush.<P>It is said that Clinton was elected by soccer moms partially because he's so charmingly appealing & his physical stature. Neither Bush or Gore has Clinton's "I'm lying but don't you just want to believe me honey/country" manner. Gore sighed & snorted all through the first debate when Bush was speaking, after a lifetime in politics, he knows how microphones work--it was petty. Not the reason Bush gets my vote, but not a point in Gore's favor.<P>I like the fact that Bush has worked in the real world and is not a lifetime inhabitant of Washington.<P>Bush says he was an indifferent student, yet has an MBA from Harvard. According to Rush Limbaugh, Gore flunked out of a college AND a Divinity School. (Rush adds "how do you flunk God?") And no, I'm not a dittohead either.<P>And last, I live right next to an elementary school used for voting. The street has been packed ever since 7 am, I've lived here 12 years and never seen so many cars on voting day.<p>[This message has been edited by Lor (Lor) (edited November 07, 2000).]

#892602 11/07/00 11:25 AM
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Bush sighed and giggled through all the debates.<P>Again I say, there is no perfect answer, they both have good points and bad points.<P>I believe the abortion issue should not even be involved in politics, that is really bugging me. I am not basing the nation's well-being on whether or not someone is pro-life or pro-choice. That comes down to the woman making the choice and if she can live with it. No man should decide that for a woman.<P>I shouldn't reply to this thread it is really starting to get to me.<P>Back to something easy ?!?!?! OW's, OC's, WS's, etc, etc, etc.

#892603 11/07/00 12:20 PM
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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WilliamJ:<BR><B>Cjack,<P>Which arm of the media do you work? Newspaper..TV..Radio?? Who did your paper/station endorse?<P>Oh and the retoric you have espoused kinda made my point about the liberal media. [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]<P>That's all right...I still love ya Buddy...<P>Take care,<P>Bill</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Ok, Bill, here we go...<P>Radio. Station endorses no one. Program director, general manager, and most execs up the line are registered Republicans. Each on-air person is free to endorse whomever they like. One of the guys on our morning show does a dead on Dubya impression, so he'll be happy if Bush wins.<P>Personally, I consider myself conservative, voted for Reagan and Bush, then became disenchanted with the GOP, and started looking for other options. I voted straight Libertarian last time.<P>As for "rhetoric" and "liberal media," those are terms straight from Rush Limbaugh's mouth. Taxpayer-funded sporting venues are a fact of life, not just "liberal media rhetoric." In fact, one of the most vocal opponents of the stadium here in Phoenix is also one of the most hard-line conservative talk show hosts. Just the other night I heard a lively round table discussion on that station,which carries Rush and Dr. Laura and is generally known as a haven for right-wing views. All of the station's hosts were dead-set against the idea. That station is owned by the same company which syndicates Rush and Dr. Laura, and is owned by some good 'ol boy Texas oil barons, who are Bush cronies.<P>How does it follow that a conservative host on a conservative station can come out against an instance of corporate welfare, and still be part of the "liberal media?"<P>When our taxes go to support businesses that cannot or will not support themselves, THAT is socialism.

#892604 11/07/00 12:35 PM
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<BR>I'm a card carrying member of the Libertarian Party. I donated money to the LP's candidate for US Senate in my state. Enough said.<P>Bystander

#892605 11/08/00 01:32 AM
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Cjack,<P>I stand corrected.....<P>Glad to see you are an open minded member of the media...One of my best friends is a local broadcaster here( TV anchor ). He also was an am Morning show guy...He and I have discussed the liberalism at his station many times....<P>As far as Rush....He is right you know [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]<P>Bill

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