This seems to be veterans' week here on MB, so I thought I'd join in. Besides, I think I need to write this down and sort out what I'm feeling. My apologies for the length.<P>I read the post by Dead Inside and Schizzo's response RE: post-Recovery depression and figured I had to post, though I don't know that I'm in recovery to be honest.<P>Recap:<BR>In January 2000 I could no longer ignore the signs and pursued my suspicions to uncover my husband's 10-month-long (or so) affair with a much younger coworker. I was devastated, but I forgave him and threw myself into making our marriage better.<P>In March I found several new Internet affairs. He broke them off. They seemed to be evidence of his depression, and I forgave them.<P>In April I found more ICQ (chat) transgressions...I confronted one of them and discovered that she and my husband had been having phone sex for almost the entire length of our marriage. She also told me about two other women he had met with while on business trips. He cut off all contact with her and the others on his list and I again forgave, though I think depression truly started then.<P>He was reasonably attentive throughout summer, but I knew something was wrong. He was glued to his laptop and stayed in the motel room during our vacation (one that didn't please me but which he really wanted to take) while I took our little boy to the pool...<P>Just after our "anniversary alley" in September (his birthday, our wedding anniversary, our little boy's birthday, three other parents' birthdays and my birthday, as well as the beginning of the Jewish High Holy Days) I sneaked a peak at his laptop. I found another eight lonely women he had seduced, including one "old friend" from high school who didn't know he was married. I pity them, mainly, women who were dissatisfied in their marriages or who had just had boyfriends walk out on them. Women who were hurting and vulnerable.<P>I was ready to walk out. I packed my bag and the boy's bag in ten minutes and only my failure to find the keys to our vehicle prevented me. (Funny that--they were right in front of me in the morning...) I delivered ultimatums that night, which is supposed to be a Love Buster, but seemed to have worked, I guess.<P>I told my H it was them or me. I made him send messages that I wrote stating they were foolish women who had been duped by a lying married man. I told him he had to go to counseling. <P>I made the mistake of asking for advice from all of you when H told me what the counselor said. H was angry for posting (anonymously--do any of you know my name?) questions about what the therapist said. He ridiculed me for asking "my little Internet friends" for advice on my life. So I stopped coming here.<P>Then he called me one day and pulled me out of a meeting to let me know that he had just gotten a creditor call from a credit card. Unbeknownst to me he had been making minimum payments only on this card ("but I haven't used it for months"). The balance is unbelievably high. The minimum payments failed to keep up with the interest charged and he didn't check...I don't know how long he hadn't checked but we were more than a thousand dollars overdue.<P>I don't know why that triggered me so, but it did. I just sort of flatlined when I thought of my husband. Not anger, not pain, just nothing. That night I got drunk. It's the first time I've gotten drunk since...well, I don't even remember the last time. I told H all the things that hurt me, that I had been successful and financially strong and popular with more than just "little Internet friends" before we had married, but now I had nothing. Not even a husband I could count on.<P>Oh, but it had been WEEKS, he said, since he had done anything with any other woman. Why couldn't I just move on and realize that he was good now?<P>He is trying, I know. But there has been so much pain in the past year that I am having a very hard time getting past it. The old Love Bank is doing about as well as the money bank, I fear.<P>On the day before Thanksgiving we had a horrid fight triggered by stupid things. The basic complaint is that he says I do not accept criticism well. While there may be validity in that statement, I could not abide by his picking on me any more. When he started in on picking me apart in front of our son I told him I wouldn't discuss it with him until we met in front of a counselor and that just made him madder, saying horrible things to me until I cried and yelled at him. Our son was in the back seat through all of this and cried for two days. And when we got to our destination and I was quiet and shell-shocked, Mr. Sensitivity kept asking, "What's wrong, Baby? You look so sad."<P>We have a counselling session set up for the week after he returns from business travel. I hope that something can be done. Right now I hurt too much to do much trying in our marriage. I've made that knot in the end of my rope and I'm holding on for dear life...I just wish whoever it was would stop pouring grease on the rope.<P>So that's where I am. Hanging by a thread.<P>Thanks to all who've read this far. Your thoughts, prayers, and well wishes are very welcome.<P>All the best to all of you. --HBC

HBC -- I have to make this quick since I'm at work. Welcome back, hon! I wish that things were going better for you.<P>Try not to let the past get to you, especially if you see him making an effort. You need to try and move forward and make your marriage the best that it can be. You need to stop scratching the scabs if you want the wound to heal. Try to have a good time with him again - even if you have to fake it at first (fake it 'til you make it!) Make new, wonderful memories to make the bad ones of the past fade away.<P>My prayers are with you. Best of luck!<P>CB

HBC,<P>I don't have time for a long post now as I am on my way out the door for Bible Study. Lord knows I need to make it there!! I just wanted to say that I am so sorry for all that you have endured and all the new blows that have been sent your way. How old is your son? Mine is four and has been greatly effected by all this as well. I feel for your little boy. You as well. I will say a prayer for you tonight. I'll check back when I get home. DI

Hi HBC,<P>I remember you too, maybe not all the details, those tend to belnd together after awhile. I am always hopeful when someone dissappears from our little group that things are going well for them, unfortunatly that isnt always the case.<P>Sometimes it seems to me that this is a part of the process, you being at the end of your rope, and it being the WS turn to work on things. I pray your H has the strenth to do that.<P>Keep going to that counseler, you both sound like you need to communicate better to get through this.<P>HUGS, Lora

Dear HBC,<BR> I feel overwhelmed for you as I read your post,you have been thru so much.You are a survivor.My H was involved in the internet too.That type of betrayal hurts so much because we are so trusting,we cannot beleive our H"s would do something so underhanded right in our own presence.<BR> Hoping your H will change his ways before it is to late.<BR> love and Prayers,Bethn<BR>

GRRR I was half-way through my post to you and my computer kicked me off. Anyway, I was saying...<P>I am sorry that you are having to go through all this. I said a prayer for you tonight. How is the counseling going with your H? Is he getting help for his depression? Are you? Has the counselor said anything about him having a sexual addiction problem? You should get the books Out Of the Shadows by Patrick Carnes and False Intimacy - don't know the author. This sounds to me like something he really struggles with on a deep level. <P>First of all, this is not about you. This is about him. I know you feel like you have nothing. But, HBC that is not true. For one, you have a precious child. And don't let his criticisms beat you down. You are a strong, courageous woman who has/is enduring tremendous suffering in order to keep her family intact. Not everyone has what it takes to do such a thing.<P>I am sure you feel really numb at this point. How much pain can someone take? I know there have been times that I was amazed that my human spirit could withstand so much pain without dying. Hence the user-name I suppose. I mean, you thought you had it pinned down and then wham here's another arrow aimed your way... and another... <P>I think the counseling will help you both. I know it sounds weird but, I feel for your H because I am sure he feels very out of control with all of this. I am sure his shame and insecurity with himself cause him to turn those daggers of criticism toward you when inside he is aiming them at himself. There is probably a lot of self-loathing that is going on inside of him. Don't you think it is ironic that he would belittle you and refer to your "little internet friends" when what did he think he had with the cyber sex women??? Give me a break! I hope and pray that he will find healing. <P>I know everything seems to be crashing in on you. With the financial problems he has incurred as well as everything else... But, it sounds to me like he is at least trying to be honest with all of this now. That truly is the first step, I believe. He is showing a willingness and that is so much. Stay strong and keep your chin up. Remind yourself everyday that you are more than what is in your bank account, or not, and you are more than what even your H says you are. <P>I take it from your post that you are Jewish, so I know it may be out of place for me to share Christ with you. I certainly don't want to force anything on you but, I don't know how to offer anyone support without letting them know where all my strength and hope comes from. And that comes, without a doubt, through my faith in and relationship with Christ. He has done miraculous things in my life and marriage... continues to do them. I know that without Him, I would be lost. <P>I am glad that you are back. You should not, and don't, have to fight this battle by yourself. You said you read my post the other day so you know that I am taking Effexor. It took me a while to make the decision to get on an anti-depressant. It was out of my pride, I guess. I didn't want to admit I needed a drug to deal with my life. But, hey, I DO! I finally made the decision when I saw the effects on my son. He does not deserve a mother who is withdrawn, detached, weepy, and frequently bed-ridden. If you are depressed, please get help. All this is so much harder to live through when you are fighting yourself as well. <P>Hugs and prayers. DI

{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{HBC}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}<P>Don't let him keep you from posting if you find help here! This has been my lifeline...And he has a lot of nerve talking about your "little internet friends". We're not kidding ourselves about what we're doing here...<P>Funny you referred to my reply to DI...It was only when my marriage stabilized that I began to deal with my own feelings and went into deep depression.<P>It sounds like I wouldn't exactly call yours stabilized. First, let me remind you as DI did. I know you know this...You are you and your h is himself. You feel rejection, but it is not really about you. It sounds like he has some things he has to face inside himself.<P>This is the point I'm at. Either he will or he won't, and I will make my decisions accordingly. Meanwhile, I'm going to counselling for myself! My h, by the way, has been making good progress, there has been no contact for a year or any other inappropriate behavior and I still have things inside myself to deal with.<P>I too am learning to find my strength and value in God's love for me, and I too believe it was shown directly in Christ. But there is a big difference in believing something and bringing it down to our feelings. My therapist has been helping me with that.

Hi, HBC, I remember you and I'm still here (sadly).<P>Like you, I'm not sure we are in recovery in our marriage. My H's ongoing BestFriend EA is something he refuses to renouce "Because it would be wrong, I don't want to hurt people because of you!"<P>You are very patient and strong. The betrayals are continuing, and you keep forgiving. It's got to hurt.<P>It sounds to me like your H has some compulsion to have these fake intimacies, with the keyboard and screen of his computer and laptop. That he has been able to hide a years long affair from you is chilling. He's afraid of real intimacy. <P>Your H was angry that you posted on MB Boards to ask for support and advice on what his counselor said, but he has internet affairs? How ironic. We're struggling to keep our marriages together, pray for each other, prop each other up when it's needed, and confront Horse**** when a shovel is called for. We're the paramedics, the emergency room team, the corner men who clean up the cuts and encourage each other to go back for more. He resents your "little internet friends" who encourage you to stay with him. <P>How ironic. His "little internet friends" are lonely women who he deceives, for whom he steals time from you and your son. They don't know he's married, nor do they support working on his marriage. The guy is delusional. <P>On to religion. I'm Catholic, but a Rabbi and his wife have befriended me, and I type his minyan sermons on the computer, based on Torah portions. We've gone over Abraham and Sarah, their wonderfull marriage. <P>While I type, he opens his books and files of newspaper articles about the topic. He has shared his books with me (I'm devouring one now: "Wrestling with Angels: What Genesis teaches us about our spiritual identity, sexuality, and personal relationships" by Naomi H. Rosenblat and Joshua Horwitz.) <P>The New Testament hasn't helped me, but talking about these Torah portions with the rabbi (though he and his wife know nothing of the problems my husband and I have) has been so helpful. <P>The early Jews struggled with the very things we deal with today. Infidelity, betrayal, infertility, sibling rivalry, forgiveness, jealousy. <P>"He is trying, I know. But there has been so much pain in the past year that I am having a very hard time getting past it. The old Love Bank is doing about as well as the money bank, I fear."<P>This is where I send you a cyber hug and tell you to hang on. Yes, you're out of gas. I am too. You're going through the motions, and your feelings have flatlined. Thanks for that word. It is a perfect description of how I'm feeling toward my H as well. <P>This is where the commitment comes in. All the illusions are gone. Spouse is a liar. Either like mine ("I lied to myself for 13 years about my feelings" and sneaking off to write long "accounts of the weekend" to a BestFriend, leaving me and our son in another room) or like yours (hiding credit card debts and refusing to face the facts; sneaking off to type love letters to internet honeys, leaving you and your son to go the pool without him.)<P>We attend counseling. We do homework. But I don't care any more. I go through the motions. I'm trying to fall in love with my H again. I'm trying to trust him and our marriage. Because of the commitment.<P>I hope you have a good counselor. Please come back and post, let everyone know how you progress.<P><P>------------------<BR>Belle, Domestic Goddess

I thank you all for your replies. I am glad I turned again to my "little internet friends" for support. <P>CB: Thank you for the advice to move on. Such is my desire. Unfortunately it is not so much a question of me picking at a scab as it is having a lib broken and reset again and again. I feel like I'm stuck in an infomercial, "...But wait! There's more!" Perhaps I'll try "faking it" for a while.<P>DI: My little boy is fifteen months old (almost). He is a little sunshine boy most of the time; he really perks up my day.<P>Counseling is not set to start for another two weeks when H returns from his business trip. I am hopeful, but not incredibly so: H has made it plain he is going under duress. We'll see.<P>You are right; H is undoubtedly hurting. But I can't give him any more support right now. I once heard the term "emotional vampire"--a person who just drains away all of your energy without returning any--and I can't help but apply that here. <P>DI and Schizzo: Yes, I am me and H is H. Thing is, I'm having a hard time accepting responsibility a la MB principles without beating myself up over his repeated infidelity. I think there needs to be an out clause in there: sometimes it doesn't matter if you try to fullfill your spouse's emotional needs; sometimes their needs just aren't realistic.<P>Thanks for the hugs, Lora. Yes, it could be this is part of the process. Perhaps I didn't read the fine print as well as I should have. <P>Beth: It's not just that he did it under my nose--it was that, even when I knew what to smell for it still went on under my nose. I keep thinking of the quote from Nietsche that I gave to Yuki Miaka: "That which does not kill us makes us stronger." I wonder what strengths I am developing from all this. Right now it just feels like scar tissue.<P>Thank you all for your help. --HBC

HBC,<P>There were some good threads a while back. In taking to heart the MB principles that our WS have unmet needs, I went too far and shared responsibility for his As. NOT! He had a choice every step of the way, and I realized it was not one thing I was trying to forgive, but every separate bad decision he made during most of two years.<P>Sometimes it even goes beyond their real needs for us - they have to face their insecurities, their selfishness for themselves!

HurtButCoping,<BR>I'm so sorry to hear that you'are still hanging at the end of your rope. Please hang in there. I was wondering about where you were because you didn't reply or post anything for a while. From time to time I did a search for your user name to see if you replied to anybody. I'm glad to hear from you again even though it was not so much good new, but you still have us here with you.<P>My thoughts and my prayers will be with you and your family.<P>OOOO