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#935039 08/01/01 06:05 PM
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I said things were heating up.<P>The following is the text of a letter my attorney got from my wife's attorney. I got a copy today (08/01/01)from my attorney:<P>Dear Mr. <lawyer>:<P>As you know, the <Smiths> signed a Separation Agreement November 4, 2000. Under that Agreement in Paragraph 10B, your client agreed to remove my client's name from the mortgage within 120 days of the signing of the Agreement. Although the parties have ascertained that he can do so without increasing the interest rate or term of the mortgage, he has failed to remove her name. Please advise your client that his failure to remove Ms. <Smith's> name from the mortgage within 120 days is a breach and needs to be accomplished immediately.<P>Further, Ms. <Smith> has had many problems with Mr. <Smith>. He is talking directly to <son> about their situation in violation of the agreement including statements such as "at least I'm not having a f****** affair." He is also asking <son> to relay messages to Ms. <Smith>. Further, he has said that he and Ms. <Smith> should only communicate by e-mail or letters (not verbally) unless it is extremely urgent - hardly appropriate in light of their joint physical and legal custody.<P>The house is in deplorable shape including, at time, dog feces, vomitus and urine on the floor which makes an inappropriate environment for the parties' [sic] child. Further Mr. <Smith> is not helping <son> to eat, exercise and maintain proper hygiene appropriately, aas [sic] evidenced by his increase in body fa [sic], dirty body and clothes. He listens in on <son's> phone conversations with Ms. <Smith>. He has also threatened my client. Joint physical custody can only succeed where the parties work cooperatively and both are concentrating on the best interests of the child.<P>Finally Mr. <Smith> has not paid his child support payments for March through July. He needs to bring them current now. In addition, instead of advising Ms. <Smith> on a monthly basis about expenses she must share under the Agreement, he lets them accumulate then drops a request for a large payment due almost immediately. For example, he did not give Ms. <Smith> a copy of <son's> scheduled school payments and told Ms. <Smith> on July 20th that a $5000 payment was due the end of July. I suggest we do a short Amendment requiring Mr. <Smith> to provide expense to be shared with Ms. <Smith> on a monthly basis. In turn, Ms. <Smith> has agreed to propose a schedule for her parenting time with their child.<P>Ms. <Smith> wants an amicable divorce which she believes is in the best interest of <son>. After you have had an opportunity to speak with Mr. <Smith> about all of the above, please contact me.<BR>****************<P>I am dumbfounded. I hope I don't have to defend myself on this forum. Suffice to say, there are lies of commission, half truths, and lies of omission.<P>But, I am also salivating at the thought of responsing to this. I'm going to work on it tonight and I'll post my reply. Maybe I'll have two replies - one directly to my wife and one for the lawyers.<P>In a way, this plays right into my hands. I cannot believe her lawyer is so stupid.<P>My son called me a while ago. He's with my wife. I violated Plan B by asking to speak with her.<P>Me: I got my copy of the letter from your attorney today.<P>Her: (long pause) OK.<P>Me: I just want to say that I am very, very disappointed that it has come to this.<P>Her: What do you mean?<P>Me: I can't believe you would say those things. I'm just very, very disappointed.<P>Her: Well, I'm sorry it had to come to this. It didn't have to.<P>Me: Of course it didn't have to come to this. That's what I've been trying to communicate for the past year. I don't want it to come to this. I've been trying to avoid this. This doesn't have to happen.<P>Her: (Silence)<P>Me: I don't want to argue about this. When are you bringing <son> home?<P>Her: After dinner.<P>Me: Goodby.<P>Better than a soap opera, huh?<P>WAT

#935040 08/01/01 06:09 PM
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Dave,<P>I'm dumbfounded too. I just got home and signed on. My phone line is free though.

#935041 08/01/01 06:18 PM
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Dave, <P>Before you go off and send your wife a horrific response, REMEMBER: <B>lawyers make money off of controversy.</B> If she called hers while she was angry or annoyed, he probably saw the $$'s that more controversy would provide him.<P>I believe that it is <B>rarely</B> the client's idea to write a letter containing details such as those that letter contains - and I FIRMLY believe that divorce lawyers are some of the most incredibly talented fiction writers in the world today.<P>Move over Stephen King...<BR><P>------------------<BR>terri<BR><B>Courage</B><P>Whatever course you decide upon,<BR>there is always someone to tell you<BR>that you are wrong.<P>There are always difficulties arising<BR>which tempt you to believe that your <BR>critics are right.<P>To map out a course of action <BR>and follow it to an end <BR>requires courage.<P><I>Ralph Waldo Emerson</I>

#935042 08/01/01 06:44 PM
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Yep, I have to ditto Terri.<P>I filed for divorce. I told my lawyer EVERYTHING, gave him reams of paperwork and information.<P>What he did with it was pretty ugly. I ended up editing ALOT of my divorce complaint and motions for support.<P>Even then, I still didn't like the tone, but it was at least factual.<P>Keep in mind that her lawyer is talking, not her.<P><P>------------------<BR><I>Pain is a given, misery is optional.</I>

#935043 08/01/01 06:59 PM
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Oh, WAT,<P>Gosh, everything's a mess - you're trying to Plan B and those d*#% lawyers - in violation of the agreement.<P>Never been there like that. Sounds like she is "beginning to set" you up. Makes you sound like you're unfit, has she been taking pictures. Now you'll be on the defensive. Guess letter back.<P>Chin up. aftershock

#935044 08/01/01 07:17 PM
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My jaw was on the floor by second paragraph. That's insane! Obviously she told her lawyer all of this and he used it to their advantage. I agree that she is setting you up at the prompting of her lawyer.<BR>Get rid of the dogs if they are such an issue. They are hers anyway. Make dam sure that Taz has the clothes organized and that your son looks squeaky clean everytime she is near. I know it sounds ridiculous but she's playing hardball now.<BR>You said your financial records are impeccable so that will speak for itself. Start recording all communication with her. Have documentation of A in case you need it. And make sure everytime you communicate with her that you do not LB in anyway. NO more ammunition for her(the judge will see through her fabrications).<P>Now, when I thought my H was going to give me the heave-ho, I went to see a big time divorce lawyer to see what my H would do to me. He is business and money savvy and I am not. I went in there saying that I did not want a divorce. I wanted him to tell me what I needed to know about what the laws were in my county and what I could expect to happen. He advised me to file first. Save all documentation etc... Questioned me extensively regarding H's finances. I think he saw major dollar signs for himself. If I hadn't have been so dead set against divorce he would have had me file first. He said its better for your case. I wonder if that is what her lawyer has told her.<P>I'm left scratching my head, Dave. I'm sorry. I know how much you love your family. Hopefully, she will read that letter herself and get a sick feeling from what she has done.

#935045 08/01/01 07:21 PM
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Okay Dave ... Terri is very correct. This is the Attorney speaking. Altho, it's very apparent your wife went there to vent because she doesn't like Plan B. <P>What to do now .. well I would not write a letter/email to your wife. I really wouldn't. I would not contact your wife about any of this. I would stick to Plan B. I would see my attorney and have him draft a letter that addresses all of the above but in a Plan A tone. Plan A, Plan A, Plan A! When I say all of the above, I mean all of the above that is legally jermaine, I would not bring up the he said she said stuff that involves your son. It's not important. It'll cause more grief on both sides, not to mention what it will do to your son.<P>If you contact your wife you will LB at this point, Dave. I just feel there would be no way around it. You said yourself you're feeling bitter, I believe your letter/email will have that tone.<P>Your wife is being reactionary, don't you be reationary in your response via your attorney. She is telling the attorney things that have nothing to do with legalities, she used her attorney as a sounding board, he took the info and ran with it. <P>There is far too much contact between you and your W, and I fear she will see your bitterness, it's major LBs, Dave. I know you don't want that. Please think ahead to the future.<P>We're here and will help you. I'm waiting to see what everyone else has to say, but I feel very strong about my recommendation, Hon.<P>I'll be on and watching ... so c'mon Dave, remember what your goal is.<P>Love,<BR>Jo<p>[This message has been edited by Resilient (edited August 01, 2001).]

#935046 08/01/01 07:27 PM
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Support boat coming in with a big cushion to lessen the impact. Oh Dave, I am so sorry your W has resorted to these tactics. <P>Is there a chance that the lawyer got the names mixed up and put your name where her's should be? Could be she got a lawyer that specializes in revisionist history letters?<P>Listen, this is a warning wake up call. Now you work on your defenses man..... I agree with all here, esp. cleo and Jo. Put on your best show yet. Be prepared for more mudslinging and put on your great smile. <P>Don't have any earth shattering advice to offer, the others are doing quite well. You have Rick's number, use it. Keep us posted as you can, if you need more support, just holler. <P><<<<hugs from the west coast>>>>>><P>L.

#935047 08/01/01 07:35 PM
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One more thought Dave that may help you get thru this.<P>Consider this letter from W's attorney a test, are you going to pass with flying colors MB style by applying what you've learned and believe in, OR ... are you going to add to the LB carnage that may push your wife farther away from you???<P>I know you know the answer to this.<P>We're here, talk to us.<P>Jo<p>[This message has been edited by Resilient (edited August 01, 2001).]

#935048 08/01/01 07:39 PM
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Dave,<P>there may need to be less contact between you & W. You are in Plan B here & it seems as if there is almost daily contact, comply with her requests, & be ready for the papers that I think she has waiting to serve on you<P>or maybe she is trying to force you to make the move, so she can tell son that you filed not her<P>Hang in there Dave, <P>I do have one question, do you still want your marriage or are you ready to move on

#935049 08/01/01 07:50 PM
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Hang in there, Dave. I agree with all who have advised you to *NOT* respond to this nonsense.<P>I FIRMLY believe it's always darkest just before the dawn, and this looks pretty dark! DO nOT respond in like kind....let your attorney do the talking, and stick like *glue* to Plan B.<P>Her inability to break your resolve with your Plan B is PROOF POSITIVE that it's getting to her, so she's resorted to desperate tactics.<P>We are all pulling for you....but you've GOT to remain strong.....just a little while longer. I feel a break-through is close.<P>As Lostpup (on Prayer Requests' forum) is fond of saying, "Don't give up 5 minutes before the miracle."<P>Prayers for you tonight.<P>Lupo

#935050 08/01/01 08:16 PM
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<<<<<WAT>>>><P>My jaw dropped as well. What these lawyers won't do for a buck, huh? <P>I agree with most others. Don't write her back and stay your ground. That is absurd.<P>Good luck,<BR>HbH

#935051 08/01/01 09:15 PM
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{{{{WAT}}}}<P>What does your lawyer say about this?<P>I would advise composing a response saying exactly what you want to say and then tearing it up. I think you need to get it off your chest but I don't think she needs to hear it.<P>Remember, the object of Plan B is not to "get to her". The object is to maintain your Self and avoid further withdrawals from the Love Bank. I would suggest making an effort to see that she doesn't have to try to contact you.<P>Suggest a schedule for time with your son and let her edit it. She doesn't seem willing to do that. Get it done and give her the option for change.<P>Make darn sure you invite a lot of people over to your house so they can refute her allegations that there is urine and feces, etc., in your home.<P>Put your wife out of your mind and talk to your son. He is no doubt hurting and he could probably stand to hear a few extra "I love you"s and have a few extra pairs of underwear in the "bachelor" house.<P>It's tough, but you have to let go enough that you don't damage your Self or your relationship with your son's mother beyond repair.<P>Hang in there.<P>All the best,<BR>HBC

#935052 08/01/01 09:35 PM
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hmmm pretty much ditto, I'd ignore the tone of the letter, cooperate on the financial stuff, apologize to wife for making her feel in necessary to go to such lengths, but that you understand is how lawyers play hardball, and that he is just looking out for her, and emphasize that you have no intention of being a pain in the a** over it. But then that's just me. BTW it did not really sound like war dave, just a warning shot, I get the impression you are really kinda looking for a fight, understandable, but not really helpful to your goal of reconcilliation.

#935053 08/01/01 09:40 PM
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Hey Dave ... one more thing.<P>I know how much this hurts you. I'm so sorry, you don't deserve this. <P>You and son are in my prayers tonight,<P>Please be well and know we're all thinking of you during this really tough time.<P>Lv,<BR>Jo

#935054 08/01/01 09:55 PM
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You guys are my lifeline!!<P>OK, it's way past my bed time because I've been working on a response. No, I'm not going to send it, but I will share with my ambulance chaser, and you guys. Keep in mind this is a very rough first try and i did it mostly to satisfy my need to do something and because I like to write.<P>Dear Ms. <wife's stupid lawyer>:<P>I am in receipt of your letter to Mr. <my attorney> of July 24, 2001 concerning the Separation Agreement between myself and my lovely wife.<P>In general, your letter is filled with lies of commission, half truths, and lies of omission. I conclude you are unaware of the truth, otherwise, you would not so jeopardize your integrity.<P>I will respond, point by point, after I inform you of some information that you may not be aware of.<P>First, I love my wife and son more than you can imagine. I would do nothing to harm either one of them. I do not want a divorce and it was against the wishes of my son and I that my wife abandoned us on August 20, 2000. This abandonment is starkly evident by her premeditated decision to vacate our residence while leaving our son in my care. Her reason for vacating was portrayed by her to be because she "loved me, but was no longer ‘in love' with me." Her stated reason for this was because she had fallen in love with OM, her (former) best friend's husband and a pallbearer for our deceased son who died in August 1999. She was and still is, committing adultery.<P>As depicted in my attached journal, my wife began her deceptive affair during or before June 2000 with OM. I need not repeat the details here, but she engaged in deceptive behavior and told countless lies characteristic of an affairee, including lies to her own son. Adultery can be easily confirmed by information gathered by myself and Mrs. OM. This behavior on her part is hardly "in the best interests of <son>," as quoted in your letter.<P>In your letter you state, regarding the removal of your client's name from the mortgage on the abandoned domicile, that, "although the parties have ascertained that he can do so without increasing the interest rate or term of the mortgage, he has failed to remove her name." What you don't state is that we received the information, requested by me from our mortgage company, for conducting this transaction on August 9, 2000, before she vacated the residence and long before the Separation Agreement was signed on November 4, 2000. In August, my wife was aware of the transaction fee of approximately $1089.00, yet she chose not to submit her half of the transaction in order for this to take place and to date, has not done so. I will comply with the Agreement upon receipt of my wife's share of the cost, as stipulated in Paragraph 10B of the Agreement. Be aware that at this time, the cost and terms may have changed.<P>In your letter you state, "Further, Ms. <wife> has had many problems with Mr. WAT. He is talking directly to <son> about their situation in violation of the agreement including statements such as ‘at least I'm not having a f****** affair.'" You are correct that Ms. <wife> has had many problems with me, but not of the sort you described. <P>First, my wife has had to endure many requests by me for us to participate in marriage and family counseling. She did participate once with me, on July 19, 2000 with Mr. <counselor>. Subsequently, she did not attend a private session scheduled with Mr. <counselor> on July 28, 2000. After that, she refused to participate in any further counseling with Mr. <counselor> or anyone else. In the meantime, I continued to participate in counseling with Mr. <counselor> once, and with Mr. Steve Harley many times which is continuing. After many requests, my wife did agree to talk with Mr. Harley in November, 2000 and did so once. Since then she has turned down my repeated attempts for further sessions with Mr. Harley or any other counselor. Further, she refused to participate in family counseling as recommended by <son's> psychiatrist, Dr. <psychiatrist>. During <son's> counseling with Dr. <another shrink> during September through November, 2000, my wife attended fewer than half of the eight sessions. I attended them all. Her sparse participation in these activities is hardly appropriate for the best interests of <son> and despite her affair illustrates my willingness to constructively and cooperatively work with her to resolve our family problems.<P>Second, my wife has had to endure a number of written requests, copies attached, in which I professed my love for her and my willingness to repair our marriage, in part, for the best interests of <son>. As advised by my counselor, Mr. Harley, as stated in my letter of July 7, 2001, I eventually had to resort to my request to cease all personal interaction with my wife in order to preserve what love I had left for her until the eventual end of her affair. This well known strategy is clearly described in the popular publication, "Surviving An Affair" by Mr. Harley's father, Dr. William F. Harley Jr. and Dr. Jennifer Harley Chalmers, and has been used successfully by hundreds of couples experiencing extra marital affairs. Thus, the appropriateness of this practice is well established. To further illustrate my efforts to repair our marriage, I have been an active participant in the internet forum on this topic at MarriageBuildres.com. Since my registration on the forum on September 29, 2000, I have posted 1900 messages and questions related to recovering a marriage damaged by an affair under the registered name, "worthatry." I suggest you review some of my writings.<P>Third, I have spoken directly to <son> about the fact that his mother chose not to live with us any longer. To not do so would be ridiculous and an abdication of parenting responsibilities. I am his father. These conversations have not amounted to discussions about our "marital or financial situation or parenting decisions yet to reached" as prohibited by the Agreement. Everything I have described to him has been preapproved by either Mr. <counselor> or Mr. Harley - experts in their fields of family and marriage counseling. I did not make the statement, "at least I'm not having a f****** affair" to my son. This is a groundless accusation. I need not make such a statement for he is well aware of my love and faithfulness to his mother.<P>Regarding the deplorable shape of my house. This statement is beyond belief. I invite you to visit us. Yes, my wife's dogs have their accidents. She has turned down my repeated requests for her to take them. Isn't it curious that in light of these "deplorable" conditions and her concern for her son that she has not taken action to remove him from this inappropriate environment? In fact, she has forfeited a portion of her 50% custody. The actual time my son has spent with me is approximately 60%, because of my wife's other priorities.<P>How is it that I have not helped <son> to eat, yet he has an increase in body fa[t] [sic]? These are ridiculous accusations. For the past six years I have consistently participated as an assistant baseball coach during <son's> twice a year baseball seasons. Allegations of a "dirty body and clothes" are ludicrous. Since my wife abandoned us, I have had the constant assistance of an au pair to assist me in these areas.<P>The accusation that I have listened in on <son's> phone conversations with my wife is groundless. However, if it were true, I would have justification in order to monitor the extent of lies and deception continuously exhibited by my wife. In contrast, my wife has carried on lurid e-mail conversations with her lover, Mr. OM, in <son's> presence and has had <son> in Mr. OM's presence in public places. Hardly an appropriate environment for the best interests of the child.<P>You stated in your letter that, I have "also threatened my client." Please describe these threats?<P>I couldn't agree more with your statement, "Joint physical custody can only succeed where the parties work cooperatively and both are concentrating on the best interests of the child." It should be clear to you by now that I have worked diligently to preserve the family unit, which is the best way to safeguard the best interests of the child. I note an absence in your letter of any allegations of abuse, alcohol or drug problems, or criminal activity on my part. In contrast, my wife has broken both the law and her vows via adultery.<P>In your letter you state, "Finally Mr. WAT has not paid his child support payments for March through July." This is a half truth. The full truth is that my wife never paid her share of child care expenses, a minimum of $280.00 per month, on the first of each month as required by the Agreement. Because the child support payments are $171.60 per month, less than $280.00 per month, I never owe any net payment to my wife.<P>Your statement that I allow expenses to accumulate, "then drops a request for a large payment due almost immediately," is disingenuous. I note that I prepared and paid our 2000 joint income taxes as well as <son's> taxes and provided my wife with a summary long after April 15, essentially providing an unsolicited loan. However, when I presented all the tax documentation, she did not reimburse me for over two months. My wife is well aware of <son's> school expenses, so accusations of not knowing about large payments are laughable.<P>I note that my wife only proposed a schedule for her parenting time recently, after I sent a stern request for her desires in this area.<P>Be aware that I do not want a divorce, amicable or not. I want to rebuild a happy family. My wife seems hellbent on squandering this opportunity, against the best wishes and interests of <son>. Given her adultery, she should be thankful that I am willing to reconcile with her.

#935055 08/01/01 10:04 PM
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I still can't pick my jaw up off the floor. Please, hang in there, don't do anything rash. My prayers are with you.<P>D.

#935056 08/01/01 10:17 PM
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Dave,<P>I have no experience with legal wrangling, separation agreements, etc. I'm just sorry that it's come to this.<P>I'm not sure how to Plan B with a child under your circumstances, but do think that really minimizing how much contact and how much you think about her is the best thing.<P>If she ever comes to her senses, she'll see how damn fortunate she is to have someone willing to endure all this while keeping the desire to rebuild your marriage.<P>Steve

#935057 08/01/01 11:07 PM
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WAT:<P>STL's Law of Lawyers: All of them are scum except mine.<P>Having gone through an acrimonious divorce, I can emphathize with such correspondence. My exW's lawyer was good at fabricating things. However, I was fortunate: I found one of America's truly ethical lawyers. A person who is committed to attempting to preserve families and ensure that children's best interests are maintained.<P>I'd offer you his name, except I think he only practices in Maryland. His son (also a decent chap ... must be the New Zealand influence of the mother/wife) practices in DC and in Maryland ... may practice in Virginia as well. Let me know if you need their number.<P>Anyway, having endured the type of letter you have received, talk with your attorney. He can help you with some of the language and finer legalistic points. If, by chance, you suspect/have proof of (alcohol or drug usage as I did), talk to your lawyer about DNA testing (residual traces of drugs and alcohol can remain in hair samples for as long as 6 months). I (at my lawyer's urging) countered with this when fabrications about parenting began to run rampant. Her lawyer immediately went into stall mode until more than 6 months had past (she got my exW to go on the wagon ... which was our (lawyer and I) strategy all along).<P>Anyway, the whole point of it: it can get ugly, Dave. Particularly if one side (hers in this case) is willing to stretch the truth ... which, according to my lawyer is not uncommon in affair-based situations. An attempt to muddy the waters, so that she (via the lawyer) will look better in court. Make sure your lawyer picks the judge (mine manuevered well and got a judge not prejudiced against men having domestic custody) and who was a staunch believer in family values.<P>Hopefully, it will not go that far. But be prepared. Talk strategy with your lawyer.<P>Godspeed and prayers with you,<BR>STL

#935058 08/01/01 11:38 PM
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Dave,<P>First... Hugs guy...<P>Second... apoligies I couldn't be here earlier.. [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com] Had my own to deal with tonight... <P>You got great advice, and I want to thank everyone for taking care of our own...<P>Dave.. I sought advice.. and really needed more personal communicae.. so I jumped to ICQ with Topie and Miss Priss.. (of course, Harley frowns on this type of contact between BS of the opposite sex). If you need to talk.. can't get ahold of Rick.. I'm on ICQ all day long.. and can be there in chat.. whenever you need be.<P>If you want my ICQ number.. I'll give it you.<P>Hang in there big guy.. your doing a great job.. Remember.. Plan B is for you to PROTECT the love you have remaining for you wife.. Don't be your own punching bag.. you'll beat her out of your heart without even knowing it.<P>As I have learned, breathe, put it to sleep.. and review it tomorrow. Faux email/letter writting is good. Give it up to us, and get it out of your system. Post all the looooonnnnggg winded post you need. Even if no one reads it... you've gotten it out.<P>I think a good thing will come of this. Have faith and believe in yourself.. those were some harsh words that you had to face today. Don't let it get you down.<P>Semper Fi<BR><P>------------------<BR>Husband2You<BR>*****<BR>Don't make me promises <BR>Baby you never did know how to keep them well <BR>I've had the rest of you <BR>Now I want the best of you <BR>It's time for show and tell<P>'All or Nothing' © 2001 O-Town

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