I have been reading the posts alsmost daily because I am struggling so much. I get so sad sometimes that I have a hard time replying to the posts that I read. One response in particular was discouraging. One person said that there have been around 12 out of 200 plans that he/she was follwoing that actually ended up in reconciliation. The others ended up in divorce. Does anyone seem to think that this is true? <BR>

DMSFC,<BR>Your question is a very hard one to answer.... I don't think there is a really good answer to it. Certain parts of affairs can be predicted to a point i.e. some of the things that will be said by ws to use to rationalize things and some of the emotions the bs will feel... But, beyond things like that there is no way you can judge your reconciliation on the statistics of others. People are different, situations are different, to tell you the truth I would not even go there it just sets you up for more disillusionment(sp). I did the same thing (kind of)I read that close to 3% of affairs actually go on to marriage after being exposed and I put my whole outlook on that statistic. Go figure that my x-wife looks to be heading for being one of the 3%. No ramifications of having an affair has hit her, in fact she and her om blew apart 2 families to get where they are and they are going strong.<BR>My point being that it just adds to the frustration of this whole mess if you start looking at other situations and comparing them to yours. The best advice that I can give you is to work on your respect and the image of respect that you portray and your self respect. I truly believe that one of the big contributers of this stupidity is the lack of respect the ws has for the bs. The sooner that is turned around the better for you....<BR>Boy was that a ramble.... sorry<BR>mkn

Hi DMSCF,<P>I agree, those stats you quoted are very hard to confirm. However, I would suggest you run a "Poll" of your own on one or all of the forums. It may be a bit daunting adding up the numbers, but I think it would be of interest to us all to know what the MB ratio is regarding a D as opposed to a sucessful Recovery.<P>Perhaps have the title of your post read as follows:<P>"Polling: Did Your Marriage end up in D or Successful Recovery"<P>Jo<p>[This message has been edited by Resilient (edited August 19, 2001).]

DMSFC:<P>I'm the source of that "stat" and I just want to spend a moment clarifying. I don't mean for it to discourage anyone's behavior, but I also like to periodically inject my opinion here because I think far too much false hope tends to breed at MB. In the end, false hope causes extreme pain by creating artificially high short-term expectations that lead to disappointment (and giving up too soon). I still believe everyone should work these situations for two years, regardless of anyone's opinion of the likelihood of success. I've been here since November '98, btw.<BR> <BR>Here's my quote<P>"Most of these situations do NOT work out if the affair isn't stopped at discovery and the wayward shows virtually no empathy toward the betrayed. I can cite about a dozen success stories in the forum since 1998, and probably two hundred or more that are either divorced now, or the betrayed continues to attempt to wait out the affair, occasionally for multiple years."<P>I think my numbers are in the ballpark (we all can cite the success stories and we write to them periodically for encouragement). But I want you to see the qualifiers I put on this - those spouses that make NO ATTEMPT to end affairs at discovery, have no remorse, blame the betrayed, and invest no effort, are the population I'm referring to. It is this population that is highly unlikely to emerge from the affair successfully because they are most likely incapable of feeling empathy or making personal changes. The recovery rate amongst infidels that acknowledge and are sympathetic to the pain of the betrayed, or those that know the affair is wrong and regret getting involved (even if they don't stop it), I am sure is much higher. Many studies have stated that the single biggest determinant of recovery from an affair is the degree of empathy and compassion the infidel has for the betrayed.<P>One other qualifier of my definition of success. Reconciliation, in and of itself, does not mean success. In order for a marriage to be turned into a strong one, both parties need to place the needs of the other at the top of their priority list, be willing to make changes to meet each others needs, spend significant time together, and be honest with each other. Some of these infidels come back, but the marriages won't be good ones unless they modify their behavior. Some have definitely done this so there is a basis for hope (Lor's husband, for example). Some come back but continue on with the same behaviors.<P>I know this last part is hard to hear, but success can also come from the break-up of the marriage. If the marriage could never have been a good one (I now believe this about mine - it could never be good because I can't imagine my husband ever doing the things I mentioned above), you can emerge stronger. Even if it was a good marriage, there is learning from its break-up to be applied elsewhere. We learn and grow significantly from having gone through this process and committing so strongly. Often, pain is a necessary element for growth. We leave better people, capable of being much better spouses than we were before. When we're ready to let go of our marriages, new opportunities await us. That is what I've discovered. I consider that success as well.<P>Good luck and don't give up on the plan. Keep a long-term outlook (two years) and don't forget to live your own life.

Thanks for this Distressed.<P>And BTW: I hope it was okay that I blocked and copied one of your threads from D/D to the GQ II forum. Your words hit home for me in so many ways. Thank you ...<P>Jo

Wow, I come back from vacation and find I'm in a thread...<P>Distressed, good to see you post, I always wonder how you are.<P>Distressed wrote: "those spouses that make NO ATTEMPT to end affairs at discovery, have no remorse, blame the betrayed, and invest no effort, are the population I'm referring to. It is this population that is highly unlikely to emerge from the affair successfully because they are most likely incapable of feeling empathy or making personal changes"<P>After my own 2 1/2 + years here (arrival 12/98), I'd have to agree that those situations with all those specific qualifiers have very few marital recoveries.<P>But for marriages that have some of those we have the many recovering marriages on Recovery Board. And, many many posters, once the affair ends or they are reunited, leave MB. So, we don't know a lot about their prognosis & outcome.<P>Having infidelity or separation or both occur in your marriage increases the likelihood of divorce, I think we all realize that? So whatever the actual national average of divorce is, it is probably higher on the MB Infidelity Board. <P>I tend to think all stats are skewed by the researchers' wording of questions, but thats just me--and what my Sociology professors stated.<P>I also would guess the longer the affair goes on, the worse the statistic. And not just because of the WS, after 2 years, there aren't a lot of BS who want to continue, although there are some, like I did, like Distressed. But after 2 years, there is a kind of closure through time if nothing else. You ask yourself "do I want to continue waiting for this marriage?" The answer can be yes, no or maybe for a little while longer.<P>We see newbies continually asking if it is ok to date (very non MB behavior for married folk). It's a given if a BS begins to date they won't be waiting any 2 years for their WS to get it together. <P>And, even like in my case when it does come back together at the 2 year mark, with long separations, recovery take a lot of determination from BOTH parties. My H did/is doing it. So am I. Like Distressed says, if my H had not done the work for reconciliation, it would not have worked, because my heart was gone from the marriage after an 18 month Plan A & a 6 month & not quite really :rollyeyes: or very good Plan B. Like Distressed, after 2 years I had reached the point of realizing I would be ok without my husband, even if my recovered marriage had been my optimal outcome, it appeared instead I would be divorced.<P>Anyway, I wouldn't focus on stats. I think with 7 separations & other added incidents, my H & I are in a very narrow percentage of success. <P>But, today is good.<BR><P>------------------<BR>Lor<BR>"Whatever is true, honorable, just, pure, lovely, gracious...think about these things." Phil 4:8

DMSFC - if you are content to be a statistic, you will be.<P>Do you plan to give up each time you have less than a 50/50 chance? At what numbers do you feel like you can sit back and relax?<P>Do you want to be like today's politicians and "follow" the polls, or be a leader and help make the decisions that make the future statistics?<P>People who pay attention to the statistics in society are the losers; people who ignore them are the likely winners.<P>You can decide.<P>WAT

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by worthatry:<BR><B>People who pay attention to the statistics in society are the losers; people who ignore them are the likely winners.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I'm sure I'll butcher this quote as I don't have the book in front of me but Dale Carnegie of "How To Win Friends And Influence People" fame said:<P>"The greatest things in life are accomplished by people who didn't quit when things seemed impossible."<P>I don't think the wording is quite right, but the sentement is dead on.

Crap I thinking its raining on my parade. Ill keep trying<BR>But the stats do set you back .