OK, you guys have done this countless times before, but will you please do it again? Please tell me I'm not crazy.<P>I've been trying to comply with a separation agreement item to have my wife's name removed from our mortgage (for the home she left and in which I remain). I'll spare you the details, because the details are not at the root of my request.<P>Because there are numerous ways in which I can comply the removal of her name from the mortgage, I have explored for the one that meets the requirement, while making the most financial sense to me.<P>In short, my wife balked at my first attempt, refusing to sign on the dotted line, claiming she didn't trust ME with what I was doing. She wanted to make sure HER interests were protected. SHE could be a VICTIM!!!!!<P>Huh?<P>Well, wait a minute.<P>She's concerned about protecting herself? She could be victimized?<P>Isn't it her interests and preferences that she's been protecting all along? Hasn't it been her choices to perpetuate the destruction of two families? Haven't her interests taken front stage throughout this ugly affair?<P>Wait a minute. Who's the victim here?<P>Who's protecting everybody else? Who's watching over everybody else's interests - including mine and my son's, OM's W and their children? The real victims.<P>Please tell me I'm not the self centered one!!<P>Why should I be concerned with HER protecting HER interests, when that's all that's mattered for over a year? Why should I give a hoot about her desires when her desires run counter to everyone else's except OM's? Does this strike you the same way it strikes me? Her interests need protecting? As if I or someone else are to blame for the problem to begin with? Who are the victims? Who is the predator?<P>Why should I compromise MY interests? Why should I give her one moment of consideration in sorting out this huge mess she created? Who's looking out for MY interests? Certainly not her.<P>Am I screwed up or is this just an example of a WS who cannot look in a mirror to see the hypocrisy of their behavior? Sure, her interests certainly NEED protecting because of HER behavior. She has every reason to be paranoid. Why should I or anyone else be concerned?<P>Hmmmmm. Wait a minute, again. OK, I get it. It's becoming clearer now. The WS thinks of THEMSELVES as the victim. They were "forced" into this crisis by the uncompassionate BS and everybody else who doesn't understand their "unique" problem. They are the ones who have been victimized by everyone else!! Of course they need to protect themselves!! They're helpless!!! No one else cares about them!!!<P>Thanks for the insight.<P>WAT

Hi Dave,<P>I really do think she is unduly paranoid, and I lean toward thinking it's because she feels so much guilt that she thinks you would do things to intentionally hurt her. It's all guilt based. She probably can't fathom you being as understanding and compassionate as you have been and feels you are setting her up to get revenge because she has betrayed you in the most hurtful way imaginable.<P>I feel sorry for her Dave ... I feel bad for her because she will carry this guilt and paranoia around thinking you're always after her to hurt her. She has so much to still go thru, so much to still face and deal with. I hope when she starts her self examination you will still be there to pick up the pieces.<P>Dave, take care of yourself and son. Do what you always do, be fair and loving while continuing to make sure you and son won't suffer while W tries to find herself.<P>Take care.<BR>Love,<BR>Jo

WAT,<P>I have to echo what Jo said and remind you that this isn't about you. She's (your W) in a whole different place (planet?) than you are and is obviously not seeing the world the same way.<P>None of her conclusions statements/conclusions/judgements are going to make sense to the rest of us. Even though they may reflect <B>her</B> view of you, it isn't necessarily the same reality the rest of us see.<P>I could <I>imagine</I> a world where she was a victim and not everyone else, but I have a really great imagination. The facts that I'm aware of don't seem to justify that view of the world, though.<P>Someday, maybe, she'll start trying to enter the world the rest of us live in and she'll start seeing the discrepancies. At that point she'll need lot's of help. I hope there are people around her willing to give it to her when she needs it.<P>Jeffers <P>

Okay, let me see if I get this straight.... Your W wants to have her name off of the mortgage, but yet she doesn't? That about sums it up from my interpretation lately.<P>You're right Dave, you're not crazy. Her actions are. She's contradicting her own requests by her own actions.<P>I wish you the best in getting it all sorted out with her (via lawyers I presume).<P>Just a thought... is there a way SHE would prefer her name getting off? I certainly don't know much about finances, but so long as it's off, and she no longer has any ties to the house, that's all that should matter to her, right?<P>Karen<BR>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by worthatry:<BR><B>In short, my wife balked at my first attempt, refusing to sign on the dotted line, claiming she didn't trust ME with what I was doing. She wanted to make sure HER interests were protected. SHE could be a VICTIM!!!!!<BR></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Hi worth,<BR>Just curious as to what your *live* response was? How did you act and what did you actually say to her on the spot?<P>Answer first, then I'll tell you if I think you're crazy! <BR>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by worthatry:<BR><B>OK, you guys have done this countless times before, but will you please do it again? Please tell me I'm not crazy<P>Hmmmmm. Wait a minute, again. OK, I get it. It's becoming clearer now. The WS thinks of THEMSELVES as the victim. They were "forced" into this crisis by the uncompassionate BS and everybody else who doesn't understand their "unique" problem. They are the ones who have been victimized by everyone else!! Of course they need to protect themselves!! They're helpless!!! No one else cares about them!!!<P>Thanks for the insight.<P>WAT</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Dave,<P>you are not crazy. What did you say to her? Do what is right for you, at least that is what I think you should do?<P>You got it right that our WS think they are the Victimes, mime does. He told me the other day that I was wrong he had never wanted any of this mess but we are arguing about money & I see it as a way he is trying to protect his interest by making me feel sorry for him again.<P>Hang tough Dave. <P>OS is so suppose to get to start practicing today but his shoulder doesn't seem better, so I am not sure what he is going to do. They will harness him up anyway, & it should keep it from not popping out again.<P>

Thanks for your responses. My issue here is not the mechanics of the mortgage, per se. I think I have that well in hand. In so many words, my written response to my wife was to simply ask her if she wanted off the mortgage or not? It's her decision. She countered by wanting to participate in the closing. I prefer not to go into the details here.<P>My real issue for discussion was the WS posture of needing to watch their backsides. To me, this is amazing. In one sense, I understand that a WS could feel like their spouse may be out to bleed them dry financially - after all, the BS has been harmed in an indescribable way and a knee jerk response is to seek revenge and make them pay. But this logic is reliant on understanding that they did something to deserve revenge. In other words, why should they be afraid of what the BS may do, if they did nothing wrong?<P>On the other hand, WSs deep in the fog seem to have paranoia of a second sort, as well. They seem to feel like the victim in their crisis. They HAD to seek comfort from the designated hitter. They were forced to. My wife told me - I swear I am not making this up - that she HAD to move out because it was my decision NOT to leave.<P>My question was intended to go more to the apparent dichotomy of these two "paranoia." How can they be afraid of what the BS might do to them for revenge - hence acknowledging that revenge may be justified - yet feel like the original victim whom everybody else doesn't understand?<P>WAT

<B>Why be paranoid and fear revenge if nothing is wrong?</B><P>Good question! Probably because you have not admitted that you did something wrong...<P><B>Why claim to be the original victim that no one understands?</B><P>To get sympathy or to make your actions seem right in your own mind?<P>THEREFORE, since I have done nothing wrong but yet someone is out to get me for it, that makes me a paranoid victim in my own right = crazy!<P>So I guess that means YOU, WAT, are not crazy!!!

Driven to appear above suspicion, twisted logic, obstructionist, lack of respect, denial and avoidance, hides under a veil of innocence and good intentions, uses indifference to intimidate and control, fence sitting, afaid of intimacy, blurred boundaries, emotionally punishing, cuts off nose to spite face!!!<P>Words to describe the passive aggressive way of dealing with submerged ANGER!!!!<P>Probably anger at you never communicated. Most likely, anger at everyone since birth, including YOU, but projected ONTO you!!!!<P>Only she can do anything about that.<P>Just keep venting to us and give her all the control she thinks she never had (without cutting your nose to spite your face of course).

Hi Dave,<P>Late comer again. Here's my 2 cents. From what I have read it is the 'ol control issue again. She has stated that she wants off the mortgage. Now it is how she wants off the mortgage. Do you know her next request? It could be bickering over the type of pen used to sign the documents. <P>Control, control, control. She made a request. One which I think she thought you would never really do. Which would mean she would have continued control over you. Now that you did, she may try to enforce her hand be a redirection tactic. Control via another method. <P>Question, even if she wants to be present, can you do it without her presence? See conceeding part way if normal. Demanding do it all my way or I will make your life miserable is what the BS is often accused of. But when the tables are turned, guess who tries the same tactics? And why? Because of the control game. <P>WAT, you are not playing by the WS rules. You know the one that says the WS is right 50% of the time and BS is wrong the other 50%? <P>Are you nuts? No, not yet. But if you keep playing into her hand you will be. Ok, enough. Now how to not go crazy? Try this. Just say ok, then go do what you can and need to do. No arguing, no bickering, no confrontation. Don't show your hand, just do it. With a smile (if you can do that sincerely). <P>I did that, worked pretty good for me. In fact, I found out another interesting tactic that works (I think only for those who speak fogese). I will post it later. <P>Take Care,<BR>L. <BR>