Hopeful and ES,<p>First, I am very, very sorry if you feel bashed by me. Not my intent at all.<p>My points, not expressed well, were if Hopeful is uncomfortable with an opposite sex friendship, that person should willingly be her friend as well. Hopeful should be a part of the relationship, and if she can't there should be no friendship because Hopeful has made it clear she does not like it.<p>My other point about kids was that if you are a good parent - BOTH of you, your daughter will know that, regardless of what gets said. AND, most important Hopeful has just stated that she will not let bashing happen. <p>*I* was dealing with an abusive jerk. I am not saying that you Hopeful are bad or abusive in any way. I brought up the abuse and that I wanted to keep the kids away from it and the courts forced the situation. Now kids are older, they see the father for what he is. I wanted ES to see that even if he does feel bashed, your daughter will see the truth of him eventually.<p>I wanted to tell ES that even if you two are not together the courts will see to it that he does see your daughter. <p>I am going to agree with Nyneve and say there is something going on here that we can't understand and perhaps saying nothing is the better course.<p>My last line was that everyone here cares very much about you *both*. We do Hopeful, we do. <p>So again, I am going to apologize and offer to delete my post(s) if that's what either of you want. I do not want to bash or hurt.<p>
V

I wasn't going to put my two cents into this thread. But, I guess I have a big mouth...lol.<p> Really my only comment is that there is a little girl involved in this situation. She doesn't deserve hearing ANYTHING negative about either of her parents from the other parent. She also doesn't need to hear anything negative from extended family in regards to either parent.<p> It doesn't matter what happens with the marriage. This little girl will always be the daughter of you both. Please do your level best to keep her emotions intact. So she knows she has two parents that love her no matter if they live together or not. Even if divorced, she will know that you each ate least respect the childs mother/father.<p> You two have been at this far too long to let a misunderstanding end your marriage. Too long for ANY friend to come between the two of you. Whichever of you need to lose that friendship and save your family. Nobody should be more important than the one you are married to.<p> I wish you well.<p> jd

Hopeful ... are you reading ... bump

. . .<p>[ November 27, 2001: Message edited by: Empty Shell ]</p>

Just wanted everyone to know that I am reading. I still expect the bashing though. ES told me in the conversation on Wednesday that he posted here. And asked me who I thought everyone would support. Of course I expect everyone to support him. I'm the bad person here for leaving and taking our D with me. I really don't expect the support. Just thought I'd let everyone know how I felt.<p>Just so everyone is clear. ES is more than welcome to call and talk to our D. I am currently staying with my mother. She doesn't want him to not have contact with our D and says if he wants to call he can. We also have not been bashing ES in front of our D. We haven't said a bad thing about him at all. I know he probably doesn't belive me but its true. We haven't said a bad thing about him.<p>[ November 25, 2001: Message edited by: hopeful1771 ]</p>

Hi ES and hopeful,<p>As hard as it is for the 2 of you, I am glad to see you both here. It is like you both have your backs to each other and we are all around the 2 of you with support. <p>Yes, there are 2 sides to every story so you both need to make sure the 'right' account is being given. Are you both right? I can't tell but I know who can. Make sure you both tell the truth because that one is listening. <p>About your daughter. Children can read body language sometimes even better than the verbal one. Think about it, children use body language to communicate when they are babies. They are experts at it. So don't say no and shake you head up and down at the same time. Sends mix messages to adults and kids interput it as they seez it. <p>ES, when I initiailly said I would look into getting assistance, this is what I meant. You both have been here a long time and many of the old timers (young at heart folks) know you better and can help. Even some of us newer ones can help! [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] <p>I watched a movie last night called 'we the jury'. boy that lifetime channel has a lot of A movies on. Hard to watch sometimes. Yet those movies are quite shallow compared to what is going on here in our 'real' lives. <p>Try to reach a happy medium, do it for yourselves and your family. If you can't see your individual selves as happy right, now then do it for your family. In time, that stubborn part of your brain will given in to true happiness. Kinda contagious this smiling, laughing thing.....best teachers are our kids. <p>Hugs to you both..<p>L.

Hopful,<p> I too would ask that you post your side of this story. <p> jd

Hopeful,<p>I'm sorry I offended you. But, I do not understand why, when you left, you went to your mothers? You do realize that ES feels threatened by your family - for the way they have persuaded you to turn on your husband in the past? Don't you see that because they were able to persuade you, that his fear is - that they will turn your daughter against him? <p>ES - I don't remember the incident 1.5 years ago, as I am not as "addicted" to MB as I used to be. (Thank God!) Anyway.... You are an oldtimer, you know the basic concepts.... Where is POJA while you are embracing this friend? What do you expect from hopeful? Did you both AGREE Enthusiastically to befriend this person? If you thought there was an enthusiastic agreement - and there isn't really - then something is way off here. <p>I see 2 major things wrong here: 1) hopeful disregarding husbands fears about her mother - turning daughter against him 2) ES is demanding that he be allowed to continue a friendship that does not make hopeful feel protected and loved.<p>TnT

TNT<p>I understand that turning to my mother is a fear for ES. But what am I suppose to do? Have no one to turn to when I feel I need support while he has his sister, his parents, and his friend that he has been talking to so much in the past. I turned to my mother for support. She knows that she isn't suppose to say a bad thing about ES in front of D. She won't either. I will personally guarentee that she won't. But I did come to her house for support, not only from her but my sisters and my father as well. Not to scare him into thinking they would turn our D against him but for support for me. I deserve that much as he will get support from his family who is near him.<p>I also know that since I left this time and have left before that his family will probably try to turn our D against me whenever they get a chance. When the see her they may say things in front of her bad against me. We both have fears that the others parents will try to turn our D against the other parent. All I can say is that I know my family will not try to turn our D against ES even if he doesn't believe it. Why would my mother say it was okay for him to call to talk to D anytime he wanted if she was going to try to turn her against him?

Dear Brother, <p>Have you read; Ephesians 5:23 - For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, and is himself its Savior. Ephesians 5:24 - As the church is subject to Christ, so let wives also be subject in everything to their husbands. Ephesians 5:25 - Husbands, love your wives, as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her. Brother you are not married to the Church, you are married to your wife and if it hurts your wife to counsel these women, let it go.
First of all no man should counsel a women alone, his wife should be there with him, look at David, how when he saw basheba and how his flesh wanted sex, so let us get real and you be concern about your wife and child and let God do the rest. Ask yourself, why do a lot of preacher fall? Because of sex and trying to minister to a woman alone (big mistake), the word says; But I, brethren, could not address you as spiritual men, but as men of the flesh, as babes in Christ. I fed you with milk, not solid food; for you were not ready for it; and even yet you are not ready, for you are still of the flesh. For while there is jealousy and strife among you, are you not of the flesh, and behaving like ordinary men? Brother you need to die to your flesh and come alive in the Holy Spirit. Hebrews 5:12 - For though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need some one to teach you again the first principles of God's word. You need milk, not solid food; James 3:1 - Let not many of you become teachers, my brethren, for you know that we who teach shall be judged with greater strictness.
Here is some of God' words for you to take to your head and your heart and meditate on the word of the LORD; So take heed to yourselves, and let none be faithless to the wife of his youth. 16 "For I hate divorce, says the LORD the God of Israel, and covering one's garment with violence, says the LORD of hosts. So take heed to yourselves and do not be faithless." Matthew 19:7 - They said to him, "Why then did Moses command one to give a certificate of divorce, and to put her away?" Matthew 19:8 - He said to them, "For your hardness of heart Moses allowed you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so. <p>God Bless!
Sister Jackie

. . .<p>[ November 27, 2001: Message edited by: Empty Shell ]</p>

. . .<p>[ November 27, 2001: Message edited by: Empty Shell ]</p>

It's time. . .<p>[ November 27, 2001: Message edited by: Empty Shell ]</p>

ES?<p>It's time to what? Please, please respond.<p>Sincerely,
L.

I ask you again....Do you want to be married? Do you want to be fully involved in your childs upbringing? Or, would you rather have female friends?<p> I am neither accusing you of having an affair or saying your wife was right in how she moved out. Only that you better get your priorities straight. <p> I can see your wifes point much more clearly than your view because my W is/has been doing the same thing. There should be no friends outside of both of you guys. Please do not let pride hamper your marriage.<p> If you W has male friends that you do not want her to have I would be telling her the same thing.<p> Now I will butt out.....good luck to you both.<p> jd

. . .<p>[ November 27, 2001: Message edited by: Empty Shell ]</p>

ES,<p>How are you doing today? We are concerned about you. <p>Please take care,
L.