Welcome to the
Marriage Builders® Discussion Forum

This is a community where people come in search of marriage related support, answers, or encouragement. Also, information about the Marriage Builders principles can be found in the books available for sale in the Marriage Builders® Bookstore.
If you would like to join our guidance forum, please read the Announcement Forum for instructions, rules, & guidelines.
The members of this community are peers and not professionals. Professional coaching is available by clicking on the link titled Coaching Center at the top of this page.
We trust that you will find the Marriage Builders® Discussion Forum to be a helpful resource for you. We look forward to your participation.
Once you have reviewed all the FAQ, tech support and announcement information, if you still have problems that are not addressed, please e-mail the administrators at mbrestored@gmail.com
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Joined: Aug 1999
Posts: 456
P
Member
OP Offline
Member
P
Joined: Aug 1999
Posts: 456
HI All.<p>Didn't know which place to post as I have visited them all in the last 2+ years, except the divorce one, which will most likely be my next home away from home. I hope someone reads that remembers my story because it has gone on a long time and to retell at this point would be difficult.<p>Because my H never fully gave up contact with OW,
(had a secret e-mail account that I knew about, but could not always bust into) I have never regained my trust,with good reason, and have continued to SNOOP! OH, MY GOD! WHY would I want to know... The snooping has been a big issue my H has had with me.<p>Anyway...I am able to read some of the mail he gets, and some that he sends, when I can get my hands on his laptop, so periodically I check. In October I found a letter from a prostitute which simply said "When and where?" I confronted, he got mad that I snooped, said he was just curious and had written one, but did not do any thing with her, which I confirmed by calling her and having a very interesting conversation. However, this was not the first indication that he had been, at the least, investigating the world's oldest profession as a possible avenue for entertainment when away from home. There had been one other e-mail 9 months earlier and a phone number in his wallet for an escort service in Dallas. He denies, denies, denies that he was ever actually with one. Now...<p>This caused further suspicion on my part causing me to check another old e-mail account, one for which I had the password, about three weeks ago.
I found a letter from a woman saying she had enjoyed being with him the day before, was thinking of him and looking forward to being with him that afternoon. (He was in Florida) When asked what he had done that day, he left out any info about meeting or being with an "interesting lady" so I blew my cover and confronted him. He said it was all innocent, just someone to spend time with that was interesting, that I would like her, she was alot like me, bla bla bla. Well, the next day I happened to think that I had not checked the "sent messages" file, so I did and found the following three e-mails,the first two of which were to one lady and the other to a different one<p>Goood Morning Lady,
your message did not get here yet, but i'll keep checkin'!
thank you for the phonecall last night, nice to know someone is thinking of me [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]
Which is what I have been doing of you!
We may still have a few subjects to cover, politics, religion, abortion,etc. (just kidding, maybe we can find lighter subjects to cover "more der funner ones" maybe). Either way, it will be good to see you again and be with you.
see you here [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Good morning Lady,
these are nice e-mails to wake up to...not that I don't think of you at other times [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]
Yesterday was very nice, a nice quiet talk and a good, healthy and small meal. (and the other stuff was also very sensual, I also look forward to more orher stuff).
Tomorrow, suppose you still wanna meet, should we do maybe about the same formula??
I was thinkin of things to do, like: put put, a movie, the beach (maybe not enough time), downtown disney, drive around, and I'll think up s'more....if you help think too!
let me know what you think. I hear there' a city buss from here to Intl. drive, maybe I can save you some time that way....
I'll be doin' s'more thinkin' of you in the mean time.
Thanks for a great evening and write me what your thinkin'<p>
Hello Lady,
Good morning, just wanted to write you a little note, to let you know that I really enjoyed being with you yesterday....it put a smile on my face that lasted all night [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] You really are good company!
I missed you at the airport last night smirk hope that was not because of me!
Maybe you will be there tonight?
Either way, I know how to get in touch with you if not tonight at the airport.
Give me a week and you'lle hear from me, promise!
"MY H"<p>There you have it. That's where we are now. His newly revealed idea about our marriage, and what he wants are as follows, to the best of my understanding, and I quote from a letter I wrote him.<p>Dear H.
I want to write what I understand to be your position
and hope you will clarify and/or validate my
understanding of what you seem to be telling me.<p>First, you do not want a divorce...yet...you do not
want a traditional marriage, rather one which includes
the following terms:<p>1. You want to be yourself and be able to talk to
anyone you want to, using any means, ie, phone, dates,
e-mail, icq, etc. that suits the circumstances.<p>2. If the communications you begin with a person of
the opposite sex should happen to get flirtatious, you
want the freedom to go with it, if I don't know about
it, which I shouldn't if I don't snoop.<p>3. If the flirtatiousness of the interaction should
happen to get sexual/sensual and the person is of
particular interest to you, stands out as special, so
to speak, you want the freedom to go with it, to
experience the interaction to it's fullest(meaning
sex), without fear that I would find out. <p>4. You believe that whether I agree or not to this
arrangement, this is the way you see yourself behaving
and therefore, cannot/willnot make any promises that
such interactions will not continue to happen over the
next 15+ years of your life.<p>Now, do I have a clear picture of how you want it to
be in your life? I will save for later my
understanding of how you would like OUR relationship
to progress as you live your life in this way, if,
that is, I have correctly related what I hear you to
be saying about what you want when I am NOT around.<p>I hope you will give some thought to this and get back
to me with those thoughts as soon as possible. I don't
want to make decisions based on mis-understanding or
mis-information.<p>Sincerely,<p>"Pilot's wife"<p>The above is how I interpret the many conversations I have had with H and with those who have also talked to him about our situation. <p>Now if you guys have read this far, you must have some thoughts and reactions you would like to share. I will be most interested to hear if anyone has any solution for this situation other than divorce. I CANNOT accept these terms.<p>I only just sent this letter to him and have not gotten a response yet.<p>Thanks,<p>Pilot's wife<p>[ November 30, 2001: Message edited by: yes ]</p>

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,206
M
Member
Offline
Member
M
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,206
Sounds like my pilot husband. I feel for his lies for the last 21 years. Known affairs for the last ten years. Is now with his 28 year old flight attendant.<p>He used me, and threw me away. Pretty sad. Is it just the profession---or is it just that we married the wrong guys? Disgusting.

Joined: Feb 1999
Posts: 7,298
L
Member
Offline
Member
L
Joined: Feb 1999
Posts: 7,298
Hi Beth. {{{{{{{hugs}}}}}}} I think about you often.<p>IMO, you've put up a good fight in a losing battle. If you cannot accept his terms (which mean sharing him with any passing fancy), please end it...before "it" ends you. He's not going to bend your way, sweetie. Once you're free you'll be able to breathe again. <p>I think his idea of a relationship has been turning YOU into something you're not. I wish for you so much MORE than that.

Joined: May 2001
Posts: 3,397
Q
Member
Offline
Member
Q
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 3,397
Well, that's just beyond words.<p>I have no idea what to tell you... this has been going on for far too long... <p>(((((Pilot's Wife)))))

Joined: Nov 1999
Posts: 840
P
Member
Offline
Member
P
Joined: Nov 1999
Posts: 840
Beth,<p>I am so sorry that you are still in such an ugly situation.
Your heart is so good and you deserve so much more from your H than he is will to give you right now.
I feel such sadness in my heart for you and your family right now.
My prayers are with you.<p>Much love,
Nicole

Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 3,830
F
Member
Offline
Member
F
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 3,830
Beth, <p>I know this is not what you want to hear--somehow you want us to pull a rabbit out of the hat and say, "Here's how you can fix your marriage..."<p>Unfortunately--that's not going to happen. I am so sorry. The fact of the matter remains that you can not "make" your H be faithful to you, and he has made the decision to not be dedicated to loving one woman. Actually, he has made this QUITE clear.<p>Now, it is time for you to make a decision. He IS going to be the way he is now--he is NOT willing to change. Now you need to decide if you are willing to live with him exactly the way he is or not. If you make the decision to let him have his little flings, then you need to stop snooping and leave it alone. (Personally, I think this option is ridiculous, but some women would trade the house and the kids and the freedom of having him gone all the time for the occasional fling that he does not rub in her face.) If you make the decision that you can not accept him and live exactly the way you are now, then you need to end it and separate. I wouldn't jump into a divorce right away--legal separation should do the trick--but end all contact with him and let him reap the consequences of his decision.<p>I know that may sound rather simple, but there it is. I know there is a WHOLE LOT MORE involved in this decision, but that's really the core issue. He's not going to change...he's not willing to change...and you can't make him. So you need to decide what is good for YOU. Remember...he is not on your side anymore, and he is not looking out for your best interests--just his own. Now you need to decide what YOU need to do. <p>I'd suggest that you wait for his reply to clarify if there are any misunderstandings. I'd also suggest that you give him a time limit (in your head) to respond--like by tomorrow afternoon or else you'll make your decision based on what you understand it to be. Then, take some time to yourself, where you can be quiet and uninterrupted. Think about what your wise council has said here--think about what you KNOW in your heart--pray--and make your decision. <p>Beth, no matter what you decide, we will be here for you, and you will not be alone. Okay??<p>{{{{{{{{{{Beth}}}}}}}}}}<p>CJ

Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 14,283
K
Member
Offline
Member
K
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 14,283
I'm so very sorry, Beth. It sounds like more of the same from him. I don't think commitment or monogamy are in his dictionary. <p>Lucks put it well, I think...you HAVE put up a great fight, but unless you want to share him with all his passing fancies, it IS a losing battle.<p>I am so very, very sorry. He is a fool to not treasure you.<p>Kathi

Joined: Aug 1999
Posts: 456
P
Member
OP Offline
Member
P
Joined: Aug 1999
Posts: 456
Hi everyone,<p>I am so glad so many of you still hang around and read late..or early,as the case may be.<p>I have already contacted a lawyer and her reccomendation was that I find a bigger gun then she is, as there is a sizable income from his job, we have lot's of stuff, plus lot's of debt and I quit my job to "be with him more often when he was home". <p>I have no more tears, nor am I angry, just resolved to move on with a divorce and get on with my life. I am lonely half the time anyway due to his being gone so much, so what's a few more days. There is no other man I have even looked at twice as far as someone to lean on, which is probably a good thing, for I want to be "healed" when I venture out into the world of relationships again.<p>I have started a small karaoke business, which keeps me busy much of the time, either practicing songs to sing myself, or running shows/parties. Making no money, really, as I have to rent the speakers and have had to buy more disks, but I feel totally comfortable singing anywhere now, and in the future I may just become a traveling karaoke singer. :0) I have gone to Nashville and Seattle in the last month to get away, both times with friends, and have been well received in the 8 karaoke bars I visited. Was even offered a job to be the singer/dj for Monday nights at a club in Seattle! Course I would have had to sing in the streets the rest of the week to have made a living, but it certainly was a complimenting validation of my emerging talent. hehe (My H has hardly listened to me sing, attending only 2 shows of 15 that I have either run or attended, and in the beginning I had to beg him to show me how to set up the equipment).<p>The kids are supportive of me, not really showing any concern that I am contemplating divorce, both of the younger ones saying something to the effect of "We will probably get to see him as much as we do now anyway, which isn't much." My eldest, 18, did suggest I get a boyfriend, then said he know that wouldn't be me. He has said upon numerous occasions that I should divorce him and that he wouldn't blame me a bit.<p>Is there any reading material I should read here before joining the D/D forum? Anyone have advise on how to prepare for the next rough waters?<p>Thanks for all your thoughts.....and look into karaoke bars in your neighborhood for me. Maybe I'll just pop in there when I need to get away again. Have $50 airline tickets with Southwest for as long as I am married. hehe<p>Pilot's wife

Joined: Apr 1999
Posts: 5,798
L
Member
Offline
Member
L
Joined: Apr 1999
Posts: 5,798
Hi Beth,
I'm sorry your update is like it is. <p>Hugs to you.<p>I don't know if you remember me, my H & I are in an 18 month recovery, but I was the one to serve my H D papers before that.<p>You seem to be on track, a barracuda lawyer (when I told my Christian counselor who I had chosen he said "OH MY GOD, she'll go for everything." Uh, yeah, but just what I want, not everything. Set up a bank account in your name only--don't hide it, just for continuing living expenses. Document all finances, accounts, IRAs, stocks, pensions etc.<p>The D papers shocked my H. I think my long Plan A led him to believe I'd never be done with the marriage. But it was the point he took personal stock of himself and had a complete change of heart--and behavior...that led us back together. I certainly didn't expect that, but you never know.<p>There can come a time to say enough. You are the only one to know if you are there.

Joined: Apr 1999
Posts: 3,045
C
cl Offline
Member
Offline
Member
C
Joined: Apr 1999
Posts: 3,045
Good Morning PW,
All things considered, you sound well. Such a different tone than two yrs ago! My, how you have grown within. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]
Beth, You are wonderful and you deserve so much more than your h is willing to give. You have plan A'd, been so understanding and loving, but he is just not willing to change.
To maintain this marriage, you will likely just have to accept that your h will always screw around.
Have thought of you often. (((((hugs))))) cl

Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 426
R
Member
Offline
Member
R
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 426
PW, you don't know me, but I'm another pilot's wife. You have all my sympathy, and all my admiration, too. You sound so strong now, though I realize your emotions are probably roller coasting a bit.<p>I'm so paranoid about our husbands' profession--I honestly think that testosterone-saturated cockpit (apt term) leads some men into their basest natures.<p>I hope you'll post next time you come to Nashville. I'd love to come see you!<p>Rose Red

Joined: Aug 1999
Posts: 456
P
Member
OP Offline
Member
P
Joined: Aug 1999
Posts: 456
AW, CL...Do I have to? I don't wanna accept that and I don't wanna play with him anymore...<p>And Rose, I will definately let you know next time I come to Nashville, actually there is a producer/agent type coming to my show tonight to hear another of my singers and if he is positive about my poetry, (insert serious fantasies) I may be on my way there within two weeks. I have a contact person in the karoake business I deal with there as it is, and need to get with him as well, so when my H is home again, I may not be. Be in Nashville instead.

Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 754
O
Member
Offline
Member
O
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 754
PW,<p>I remember you as well, and I agree with all the others. Your H will not change, because he does not want to. He is a cakeman and has no intention of being anything but a cakeman. Sorry. [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] I wish it were otherwise for you.<p>Seeing an attorney was a good move. And there is lots of good reading material on divorce and what you want to do before filing and while a divorce is pending. I don't kow the best titles, as I only started to search for these materials before the lightbulb in my H's head seemed to go on. I do recall there being a few 'must reads'. Hopefully, others will know. What about asking a question about best books on the D/D board?<p>I'll be thinking of you and hoping you are well. As for your H, well, he's on his own, as far as I'm concerned. (Sorry, I don't even know the guy and I'm resentful of him. [img]images/icons/mad.gif" border="0[/img] )<p>Hugs,

Joined: Apr 1999
Posts: 3,045
C
cl Offline
Member
Offline
Member
C
Joined: Apr 1999
Posts: 3,045
Hi PW,
(((((hugs)))))
Can we nickname your h the 'cakeman'?
I am just cracking up here after reading Onedays line!
I think you did the best Plan a, then tried the frying pan, and Wassi sent that 2x4, more plan a, a little Plan b thrown in, so what will make him change? Only he can make the change and unfortunately he has not ventured down that road yet.
Have missed you. I am thrilled to hear about your new business! Share some more with us. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]

Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 623
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 623
{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{Beth}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}<p>I'm so sorry for what is going on in your life right now. I wish I could do something to make it easier for you.<p>You did do a wonderful plan A and he's a fool in my opinion. [img]images/icons/mad.gif" border="0[/img] What Lor, CL, Nicole, Oneday & everyone else here has said is right on. It appears he is a "Cakeman." <p>Contacting an attorney is the only thing you can do, his terms are not ones I could live with either. I have to tell you that the fact this attorney has such an attitude tickles me. [img]images/icons/tongue.gif" border="0[/img] to your husband. People who continue to deceive and hurt their sincere spouses deserve all that they get. (Sorry I am a little anger towards your husband.)<p>You do sound good considering all that has happened and much stronger then when this all came to your attention.<p>I know our good Lord will take care of you and that he has much better things in store for you than being bound to a continuously unfaithful husband.<p>God bless honey, you'll be in my thoughts and prayers.<p>[ December 01, 2001: Message edited by: A blessed Samantha ]<p>[ December 01, 2001: Message edited by: A blessed Samantha ]</p>

Joined: Aug 1999
Posts: 456
P
Member
OP Offline
Member
P
Joined: Aug 1999
Posts: 456
Just a short update...<p>Have not heard from H, not even when I ICQ'd him about the death of our cat....Oh, well. I will not contact him again<p>The show last nite was a bust. The important "Nashville agent" did not show up and the crowd was barely big enough to cover the cost of renting the place so I made NO money. The singers were the same ones that come to my weekly show, except for about 7 others. It was way out in the boonies so I wasn't really surprised. So my song will have to be discovered in another way..I just have to promote it aggressively. Search the web for contact, etc. That'd be alright. Give me something else to do.<p>Have another show to night with a guarenteed amount of money paid upfront so my little venture still moves forward.<p>Thanks for all your comments and support, guys. It helps me stay firm and icy. Christmas is a shi##y time to be going through this tho. I have not bought one present or hung one ornament. Just don't feel like it. oh, well.<p>Pilot's wife

Joined: Apr 1999
Posts: 3,045
C
cl Offline
Member
Offline
Member
C
Joined: Apr 1999
Posts: 3,045
Good Morning PW,
I am so very sorry about the passing of your cat. It is hard whe a pet dies-my pets are a vital part of the family, and I find it just devastating when one passes on. I have yet to stop crying from the death of my dog a few weeks ago.
One show not going well is okay! Any number of things couls have happened-bad weather, scheduled holiday parties, good sales for shopping?! I remember reading a story about the early Beatles, before the changed the name to the Beatles, and pre-Ringo, when they played to 14 people. SO it happens to all performers at some point. Don't become discouraged because of one night.
I understand that it is a very tough time with lots of things not appearing to go in a positive direction, but think positive and good things will come your way. See yourself as being successful in this new venture!!!
Seems to me cakeman has not always been there for support in the past, so this is not new behavior for him. It is his pattern, his avoidance of iddues.
PW, you cannot change him. Only he can do the work he needs to do to become healthy. YOu have always been there to support him, and that is very admirable, but ultimately he has to make the journey.
Love and prayers, cl

Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 553
G
Member
Offline
Member
G
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 553
PW,<p>I remember you well. I am sorry that your H hasn't changed. You have held in there for so long and I sincerely doubt if your H will ever change his bad habits.<p>I fully support your decision to divorce him. Enough is enough....and it's time for you to take care of YOU (which I believe you are doing wonderfully....great about your new-found Karoke business)!<p>Please continue to post here. As you already know, your MB Family will be here to support you through this difficult & emotional time.<p>Get those ornaments out...celebrate the holidays for you & your kids!

Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 442
W
Member
Offline
Member
W
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 442
Beth,<p>You have been through so much since I first started posting and I know how very hard you have fought to save your marriage! So many times our stories seemed to parallel each other and even though I don't post much any more, I have always looked forward to hearing an update from you, although I am sorry it is not a positive one.<p>It seems as though not only have our situations been alot alike at times, but we as women are too in that we are both still somewhat hanging on after all this time to the hope that our H's will once again become good and decent husbands. I have lost all hope for mine and since that revelation I have discovered it less painful to move forward with a divorce. It is easiest for me when I mourn the man my husband used to be like a death--that person is gone forever and is never coming back, who he is now is an imposter. I urge you to try that way of thinking, it really works for me!<p>As I have been moving through the process of divorce, the only advice I can offer you is to get yourself educated from a few different divorce attorneys before you mention anything to your H. It is good to know what you can reasonably expect and to have done your homework before he knows what your plans are. I liked your own advice of taking the time to heal before moving on with another relationship...it can be difficult to do at times, but I am convinced it is the only way to go! <p>Please update on the divorcing forum, the people there are very supportive. <p>Good luck Beth, and thanks for updating!<p>WOC

Joined: Aug 1999
Posts: 456
P
Member
OP Offline
Member
P
Joined: Aug 1999
Posts: 456
Hi CL, It is so good that you still hang around here to support others. How are things with you, btw? The show last nite really didn't bother me abit. Things have been slow and small from the very beginning, with it being mostly an educational type thing for a small group of friends who pay some times [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] I have had one big paying show for Amazon.com people, with another tonight and another next week. Pays for new disks. Wasn't really hanging too much on the "bigwig" showing up considering the source of where the info came from. hehe Survivor...Good to see you around still too. I have always appreciated your thoughts and approaches to things. I guess I will eventually get in the Christmas spirit. My youngest bro. is getting married on Dec 21, at Martha's vineyard, and the whole family will be there. (My H hasn't decided if he is going or not, at this point) I'm supposed to sing "The Rose" for the wedding. Would just as soon H not be there, but even if he is I have no fear that I will get emotionally invested in the song. I am that cold about it all. WOC, Hi, yes I agree, I have watched your story periodically and we have had a lot of common issues. I have refrained from offering much advise many times, mainly, I guess, because I had so little faith that what I was doing with my situation, would result in the desired affect. I will be posting eventually in the dd forum, after I find that big gun lawyer. Thanks for writing. Beth


Moderated by  Fordude 

Link Copied to Clipboard
Forum Search
Who's Online Now
1 members (NewEveryDay), 1,357 guests, and 77 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
Mike69, petercgeelan, Zorya, Reyna98, Nofoguy
71,829 Registered Users
Building Marriages That Last A Lifetime
Copyright © 1995-2019, Marriage Builders®. All Rights Reserved.
Site Navigation
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5