If anyone can help me with suggestions it would be greatly appreciated. Now remember I&#8217;m looking for help not sympathy. <p>Here&#8217;s the situation from the beginning.<p>&#8220;Joe&#8221; and I have been together for 12 ½ years and married 8 ½ of those years. I am no longer &#8220;in love&#8221; with my husband but I still care for him a great deal. When we first met we would talk for hours and hours, we both enjoyed spending time together, not to mention our sex life was FANTASTIC!! Here comes the problem now: &#8220;Joe&#8221; has cheated on me with 19 women in the past twelve years, two of them being my best friends. He slept with one of the two best friends the night our oldest son was born, and then my other best friend the day we got married. Talk about some real pain, not only could I not trust my husband anymore but I lost two friends at the same time, well I guess they weren&#8217;t really my friends after all. I have loved &#8220;Joe&#8221; with all my heart and soul up until just about August of this year. I did absolutely everything to show this man I loved him and never received anything in return. I became pregnant 2 years into our relationship and he told me to give the baby up for adoption or he would leave me, I was young and scared and in love so I did give up my child for adoption, mind you it was his child also. The day I was released from the hospital my ex-boyfriend from high school had to come pick me up, because &#8220;Joe&#8221; didn&#8217;t have the time. One of his extra marital relationships lasted for almost 2 years and he told this woman every personal detail about our relationship. We spent 1-½ years in marriage counseling after I found about this affair but things didn&#8217;t get much better. He kept telling me he wished I would do this or that because that it the way &#8220;Gina&#8221; did it. &#8220;Joe&#8221; lost two jobs because of sexual harassment towards women, which he says never happened and I don&#8217;t believe him one bit. He also lost another job do to surfing porn on the internet, which he also told me he didn&#8217;t do this, &#8220;LIE!!!!!&#8221; Then in July he got a phone number from this real fat chick which he tried for several years to get to go to bed with him in the past. He called this girl with every intention of cheating on me with her and then he said once he was on the phone with her he realized how much he cared for me. I don&#8217;t believe that either. I found her number at his work and he lied to me about it and so I told him he had better come clean or I was going to leave him, it took him 48 hours to finally come clean. I thought our relationship was going well for about the past two years but I guess I was wrong. He found this web site and now he says he is a changed man in just a few weeks, I have a hard time buying that too. I have started reading HN/HN by Dr. Harley and Surviving an affair. But sometimes I think I&#8217;m crazy for going back to this man. I had an affair in September after I found out about &#8220;Cara&#8221;. I felt so guilty about the whole thing I told &#8220;Joe&#8221; right away. Now I am living with that man I had an affair with. OM and I realized that it was a big mistake and we didn&#8217;t want to mess up our friendship. There is absolutely nothing going on between us, I&#8217;m staying with him because I have no family here and I can&#8217;t afford my own place right now. SO if anyone can give me suggestions as how I can forgive my husband and learn to trust him again and fall back in love I would greatly appreciate it. Sorry this was so long.<p>Thanks for listening,
Squirt

{{{squirt}}}
I'm sorry, I really have no advice, just wanted you to know I read your post and I'm thinking of you. I don't know anyone who's gone through that many infidelities. I'm losing my H to the OW right now, and she's the only one. I was and still am able and willing to forgive, but I just don't know what to tell you in your case.<p>It truly seems that your H just does not want to be in a committed, monogamous relationship. After all the A's he's had, it seems that he's got a serious addiction. Basically, I know from what I've read, you cannot change your H; only you.<p>Read as much as you can on this site. Get the books Surviving an Affair and His Needs/Her Needs. It may help, but honestly, it sounds as if your whole M has been somewhat of a joke to your H. As long as you put up with the behavior (i.e., no serious consequences for your H), I believe it will continue.<p>Of course you know having an A yourself didn't help matters. <p>I'm sorry I wasn't much help. I'm so sorry you're having to go through all of this pain. Please read all the information here, get into some counseling and search your heart to see if your M is really worth recovering.<p>Are you a believer in God? If so, turn to him. He's got your best interests in his heart. Ask him for guidance in all that you say and do.<p>My prayers go out to you!<p>MOM

Squirt,<p>I think that the only REAL and valid reason for disolving a marriage is abuse. Whether that comes in the form of physical or emotional doesn't matter to me. Under the emotional category, I find repeated, continuing adultery. I think that you would have every justification in deciding to end your marriage.<p>That being said (and it won't tend to be very popular on this board), I think that if you and your H TRULY want to save your marriage, you can. I believe that he has some form of a sexual addiction (whether it's truly sexual, or conquest, or aversion to comittment, or whatever). I really think he's ill, and should get help.<p>A single affair, I consider to be a simple mistake (ok, maybe not so SIMPLE, but a mistake none the less). We're human, and prone to making mistakes. But if you learn from your failure, I also believe you can become a better, stronger person from it. But multiple affairs, a pattern of infidelity, and lack of respect for you.... I think there's something more there, something that needs to be explored in therapy.<p>As for YOUR situation. You should DEFINITELY move somewhere else. Whether that be a modest apartment of your own, a girlfriend's house (that's where my wife is living at the moment), or home doesn't matter. But living with another man will only muddy the water, as well as your emotions and judgement. Whether your marriage survives or not, this other man should NOT be a part of any decision you make, for your mental health, as well as your family's.<p>Please take care, and keep posting here.<p>kev

Hi Squirt,<p>Welcome to MB. Please review the basic concepts section available at the top of this page under the MB logo. You wil find the emotional needs questionnaire there also and learn a lot about yourself and your relationship. <p>Do we encourage you to go back to your M? Well you have to decide that. You sound as if you were in an abusive relationship. Your H needs help. To have any A and several of them is completely disrespectful to the mate. So this disrespect has gone both ways. You want to work on this marriage but it has to be both of you working on it to work. <p>MB can help, read the books surviving an affair, his needs/her needs. But more importantly see if you and your H can get to a counselor ASAP. Either together or separately. You both need help. <p>Know this....the road to recovery is there but both of you must travel it together for the marriage to heal, if only one of you travels that road, that person will recover and become a better person. So there are various types of recovery. <p>Read and learn from the info here. Post your questions and we will try to help. You don't have to like or do everything everyone says. Just listen ask your questions, digest the answers and take use the good and discard the rest. It is just info, you will need to know how to use it for your situation. <p>You will find many here have gone through similar feelings and senarios. I have learned a lot since I started posting here earlier this year. <p>Take care,
L.

squirt,<p>The first step is willingness to work or save your M. If your H does now, it is your turn. About the trust and fulfilling M, MB is the best place to do it. Go over POJA, both of you, nothing sacred. Open email, vm, even put in a keyborard tracker on all computer as well as Joe's, bank record, etc. It is a mistake to have WS comes too soon w/o protection, I am saying here WS for both of you. In SAA you find 4 rules, those are 4 gifts of love, the foundation of love & caring M. You have been hurt by evil Joe and he realized what he had done wrong. I would not "trust" Joe either. If you are comfortable, you could sit down with Joe and put down all your terms to ensure A won't happen again on his part. to protect your M. You have to take also his terms to ensure OM won't appear again. Write them down like a contract so that there is no misinterpretation in the future. It might be very "controling" for either of you but you have to do it as part of recovery. Very narrow path !.<p>If you prefers slower pace you could put down a term to move in w/ Joe first and no contact w/ OM letter should be send afterward.<p>If you are not comfortable you could counsel w/ MB directly. They are the proffesional to save M and to protect them.<p>One important thing, OM should be out of the picture before you are working on your M.<p>You see, you could not change the past, you could not change the present but you could change your future ... the option is yours. Time will heals your M & forgiveness will follow. This scars in your M should be forgiven but not forgotten.<p>Note:find the Zorweb & STL's profile, they are in recovery right now.<p>[ December 29, 2001: Message edited by: redhat ]</p>

Hi Squirt,<p>Hey that's one of my nicknames.....guess you can guess I am on the shorter side... he he he. <p>Anyway, I wanted to see how you were doing and also suggest that if either you or you and your H could do maybe a phone counseling session with Jennifer C or Steve Harley, that it may benefit you both. <p>You find a lot of info here but many of us have learned a lot from sessions with Jennifer or Steve. <p>Please let us know how you are doing. Do I think it is possible for your and your H to get back the love you once had? Rebuild the trust? Well, if both are willing to try, face the ugly truth and work on the relationship together...yes. <p>So it is up to you now to see if that is a possibility. For me, the trust factor is the key player right now. My H went out on my with several women in 1 year and then hooked up with a let's call her psyco babble rabbit (talks crazy a lot and claims to be prego a lot - 3x in 12 months). We are back together but it is still hard. No one ever said the road was easy but the it can be rewarding. <p>Take care and please keep in touch. <p>L.

Hey "squirt", I wanted to let you know that I am praying for you and "Joe" that God will lead you both to the place you need to be. <p>Only He knows. <p>May you find peace of mind and of spirit. <p>Contact me please!

Hi Squirt:<p>Honey, I believe you've put in your time with this man...it's either time for him to commit to change or for you to walk away from him....and the ball is in his court.<p>He may truly have "seen the light" from his exposure to this site but he is far from fixed...in fact he probably needs professional help...he's been at this too long.<p>But it's his decision...and you need to be prepared for that decision...you need to begin to prepare youself for the eventuality that he may never be cured...and you may have to move on with your life.<p>This doesn't mean that you won't support him in every effort he makes to change...but you can't commite yourself to him anymore as he is....and he needs to understand that. Do what is best for you now...and in the end it may also be what is best for him...by making him realize that you are prepared to walk away if he doesn't change.<p>You might try giving him a limited period of time to pull himself together and seek help...and then begin the process of moving on if he doesn't.<p>Either way I wish you a better life in the future...you've earned it.<p>Faye

squirt,
bump .... happy new years.

This keeps dropping too fast.<p>Bump.<p>Thanks
Rev

Bump.

Since you were looking for help and not sympathy. I would leave the guy. 19 woman in 12 years, yikes! He is obviously a womanizer and has no respect for you or woman period. He has a serious sexual addiction that he will need to see a C before he can even begin to be honest to you and work on your marriage. Good luck, if your living quarters work for you until you can get back on your feet, go for it but your H needs to see tha tyour serious about leaving him. Be careful that he doesn't play with your friends as you are vulnerable to that since you rliving with another man.

Hi Squirt, <p>How are you doing? It has been a while since we have heard from you. <p>Just wanted to share with you a little tidbit. My H went out on a OW binge of sorts. Now he is paying for it with his life. How? In a sense that he is confused, embaressed and even suicidal. He went out with several ONS type and then landed PBR (psyco babble rabbit), through all this I felt horribly betrayed. My feelings ranged from hate to love and all the ranges of pain in between. <p>But you know love is a stronger and greater emotion when put to good use. Send the wrong way, love fails. Put to good use, love flourishes. <p>I wanted to share this with you and get your thoughts. I am sure you are going through a lot right now, hope we can help. <p>Please post. <p>Take care,
L.<p>[ January 08, 2002: Message edited by: Orchid ]</p>

Bump.

Hey there squirt. I was hoping you would write but I understand why you haven't.<p>Wrote you a note on .pg 12 of Rev's thread.
I wrote it there so you both could read it along with redhat.<p>I wish you the best in whatever you decide.

I would like to thank eveyone who has posted to me about my problem. Sorry it's been so long for me to reply but I've been trying to put my life back in order. Well after reading my posts and his posts, I feel better about the decisions I am making. Once again he has made himself out to be the victim, like he has always done in the past. I'm sick and tired of him being the victim. I maybe on the fence or wavering, what ever you want to call it but I've finally made up my mind and I don't believe there is anyone out there including Dr. Harley who could save this sinking ship. I've been reading surviving an affiar and I can say that he has over-drawn his love bank to the point where no matter how many deposits are made it will never come out of the red! And for Love Busters, he is the king. I did everything in my powers during our marriage to meet his EN and I got pushed away and treated like dirt, well now I'm standing up for my self and going on with my life and if that means a better life with out him, so be it. I come from a divorced family and I made it through it as so will my kids. If he loved me as much as he says he does he would have never done this to me, and yes I did everything in my power to fill his EN and I got nothing for it, so yes his love bank was full and my was being emptied by his love busters. So now I am off the fence and I guess if I want out bad enough I will now file, why should I expect any help from him, never got it in the past why should I get it now. As usual he will think of himself and only of himself, I'm used to that, I put up with it for 12 1/2 years, would would be different now. As to SMW if you want give me a call 2-2288 or at work at the Log Cabin after 4pm wed thru sat. I don't remember the conversation in your class room but you can refresh me -k-.

Squirt,<p>What has he done to you? I thought you were the one who moved out of your home and went to live elseswhere? <p>I will tell you what really bothers me is your statement about you coming from a divorced family and making it so that your kids will also. <p>Hm...... you would wish that on your children? That is what the OW in our case said to my H. My H came from a very dysfunctional divorced family.....survival happened but at a very large cost. Each of those children (11 of them) have emotional problems (1 even committed suicide and 4 others attempted suicide). <p>I question the ability of a mother who would choose to make that happen to her children. Of course, you must have your reasons. Is he a bad father? Is he being a bad H now? I know you both said he had a bad past. Is it showing up again now? <p>As a parent the safety of the children should be formost. How can that be when one parent is living with strangers to the family? <p>L.<p>[ January 22, 2002: Message edited by: Orchid ]</p>

squirt,<p>What are you looking ?. Only you could make yourself happy. H could not change the past, H could not even change the present but you & H could make the future.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr><strong>I would like to thank eveyone who has posted to me about my problem. Sorry it's been so long for me to reply but I've been trying to put my life back in order. Well after reading my posts and his posts, I feel better about the decisions I am making.</strong><hr></blockquote>
How do you arrive to your decision ?. Staying at OM place and teach your kids to demise the value of M ?. What will your kid remember about you when they are grown up ?.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr><strong>Once again he has made himself out to be the victim, like he has always done in the past. I'm sick and tired of him being the victim. I maybe on the fence or wavering, what ever you want to call it but I've finally made up my mind and ...</strong><hr></blockquote>
I do not beleive he made himself a victim. From day one he posted himself as serial infidel and that is the only reason I am trying to give my opinion when he is in despair. I never ask him about it and he came forward later. This forum is to help BS to vent and to let out, do not take it personally. The same thing that your H had to let go many of yours. The victim in here is your kids, you and your H ... probably OM too. Who is the culprit ?. It is you.<p>I will tell you my mom's story and 'till today I am greatfull for her sacrifice. I was "an altar boy" and even my first kiss belong to my WW. I give all to woman that I married. Why ?. When I was about 9 y/o I heard something wasn't right and later on my teenage year that I learn my dad had an A and had an OC. My mom stand by him and does what we call plan A (she learn it from chinese literature about relation), she made my dad turn around and came back. She made me who I am today and I learn to treat woman with respect and dignity. I learn that marriage is equal partnership. What will your kids learn from you ?.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr><strong>I don't believe there is anyone out there including Dr. Harley who could save this sinking ship.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Yes, you get it right, no one can. Only you could save this sinking ship ... and you are the captain of this ship and it is on your hand !!!.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr><strong>I've been reading surviving an affiar and I can say that he has over-drawn his love bank to the point where no matter how many deposits are made it will never come out of the red!</strong><hr></blockquote>
Have you given him a chance ? You shut the door and move to OM how could he deposit any ?.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr><strong>And for Love Busters, he is the king. I did everything in my powers during our marriage to meet his EN and I got pushed away and treated like dirt, well now I'm standing up for my self and going on with my life and if that means a better life with out him, so be it.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
Yes, he did a foolish thing however he also realized that there is such a thing as "fullfilling M". This is the only reason he does plan A. If he is old H, what do you expect him to do ?. File nasty Dv & kick OM @ss ?. You stand up by having A on your own and living with OM ... is this your definition of better live and standing up ?.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr><strong>I come from a divorced family and I made it through it as so will my kids.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Everyone survive, including your H ... but what do you teach you kid ?. Look at the stats, when divorce cause by A, your kids will have a very high chances of having one them self.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr><strong>If he loved me as much as he says he does he would have never done this to me, and yes I did everything in my power to fill his EN and I got nothing for it, so yes his love bank was full and my was being emptied by his love busters.</strong><hr></blockquote>
did and was<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr><strong>So now I am off the fence and I guess if I want out bad enough I will now file, why should I expect any help from him, never got it in the past why should I get it now. As usual he will think of himself and only of himself, I'm used to that, I put up with it for 12 1/2 years, would would be different now.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Is he thinking of himself right now or are you ?.<p>Listen, Orchid, I and all but two peoples on this forum know you. We never defending H and we have no interest what so ever what you are going to do w/ your life. However we all could see that you have a chance, a chance to save you M and have a fullfiling M. I do not think your H want this M, he wants a better one too. You owe it to yourself and most of all you owe it to your kid. Read this link and email her if you want to. If you are still not convince; how about this, for a specified time frame (min. 6 months) you have no contact with OM, let H fillin your EN and let H follow 4 gifts of love, you just need to be a willing participant. See if you still want it out but you have to be honest, no contact and open your EN. You could make it longer time frame if you are not sure if those changes are fake.<p>[ January 22, 2002: Message edited by: redhat ]</p>

Squirt,<p>{{{{{{{{{hugs}}}}}}}}}<p>I have to tell you, that while I feel that there are no good excuses for an affair, I can certainly understand why you are at this point in your life. You feel like your H has torn up his ‘husband card’.<p>I have some experience in what you are going through. My XH was a serial cheater thought the entire time we were together and married, 20 years. Though I have no idea of all his affairs. I am aware of only 5 or so of them. <p>If you look at my profile below, you will see that my new husband did the same thing… 10 affairs in the 2.5 years of our engagement and early marriage. We have been married for only 1.5 years. Today we are in a very good recovery. A couple can get beyond this.<p>But first you and your H need to decide if you even want to work on your marriage. This is not an easy call in your case. <p>As for his multiple infidelities… since they started even before you were married, I’d venture to say that the problem is definitely more in him then in your marriage. Remember that you share 50/50 in the current state of your relationship. Though in your case, with his multiple infidelities that may be skewed quite a bit.. like 10/90 or something like that. Your H is totally responsible for his decision to have the affairs just as you are for the affair you had. <p>I would venture to say that our H’s problem is not that he does not love you. But that he has a sexual addiction… this is an attempt to find love through sex. He is a very broken man who does not believe anyone can truly love him… so he keeps trying to fill that void. You and he may wan to read the book “Out of the Shadows” by Patrick Carnes, Ph. D. People do recover from sexual addictions, but it takes a lot of work. <p>Please read the material in the links in my signature block below. This will get you started in the MB material. I believe that you, personally, will benefit tremendously from this material whether or not you stay in your marriage. <p>I need to head out to work right now.. but will check back later.<p>{{{{{{hugs}}}}}}}}}

^ bump