I have been posting now for a few weeks and am now ready to tell my story.
The OW and I have been friends for over 13 years. She lives right next door to me and our kids grew up together and are still best friends (our D's and our S's). Summer of 2000 I started noticing OW and H getting friendly. OW and her H came up to visit us in Maine (our vacation home). While we were playing cards one night I noticed OW playing footsies with my H! I didn't know what to do so I did nothing (STUPID, I KNOW!!) The problem there was they were all drinking and the kids were in the next room. the next day I talked to my husband about it and he said he didn't know what to do either (I told him the least he could have done was to MOVE HIS FOOT!! During the next few months I saw them quite often talking over the fence, laughing, etc. One night as I was walking in the kitchen, I saw her in her bedroom window looking over to my bedroom window (where my H just happened to be) with binoculars. I ran upstairs and there was my H changing his clothes with this silly grin his face. He said he didn't know what I was talking about and he didn't know what she was doing with binoculars. Over the next few months, he started getting drunk a lot. In the Spring of 2001 I started seeing OW in the window almost every night and she was looking over to our bedroom window or to our kitchen window. If I was already upstairs, then it would be the kitchen window. If he went up first, it would be the bedroom window. He denied knowledge or participation in this of this of course. OW and her H separated (he accused her of having an A).
Finally, one night I decided to go outside and see if H was in the window. I couldn't see him, but I knew he was there because she was motioning to him. I confronted him and told him I saw him and he finally admitted to it. He said it was a "stupid little game". He said it was not what I thought...that they were just friends. He refused to give up the friendship for our marriage. We went to MC twice together and then he said it wasn't working for him and he wouldn't go anymore. We separated on Oct. 9. He spent that weekend (which was also our 22nd anniversary) up in Maine with OW. Oct. 15 we talked about things and OW called and showed up at our backdoor to talk to H. He talked to her for about 20 minutes and left about 15 minutes later. Since then he hasn't talked to me about us or made any attempt to reconcile. He is at OW house almost every day (supposedly to paint). Living right next door is agonizing. I have left a quite a few things out, but I guess this is long enough! Well that is my story in a nutshell. Hopefully 2002 will be better for all of us!
BH

I am sorry to hear of all you are going through. I suppose that it is doubly hard to be betrayed by both your H and a friend.<p>Have you read the material on this web site and the book Surviving an Affair.There is no reason you should live with things the way they are. It seems that it is time you get proactive about your life. What are your planning on doing in the next few weeks?

I found out this week that he has been spending the night at OW house. I knew he was there a lot, but didn't think he would be that cruel. With that news and the fact that H lied to me about it (yet again), I have decided to go to a lawyer and see what my options are. I don't feel like I have any other choice at this point. He won't even try and his being right next door is just destroying me.
BH

Seeing a lawyer is a good idea. You need to set your own boundaries.<p>Have you read the material on this web site and the SAA book? They will give you some very valuable information about affairs and dealing with them. I think that even if you file for divorce, some of the info will help you quite a bit. Have you done any plan a'ing at all? What about doing a Plan B? These are things that can give you some peace of mind while you deal with the legalities and decide your path.

Thanks for the responses! I have read some of the info on this site, but have not been able to find info on Plan A/B. Please let me know where to find it and I will read it. From reading the different posts, I know plan B calls for no contact. So, I can definitely say I have not done a Plan B. We are separated, but I do have contact with him regarding the kids. Other than that, other than Christmas morning, we have not seen each other. He comes over when I am at work and leaves before I get home. I don't know about Plan A, but as soon as I read it, I will let you know. Thanks again!
BH

I think you can cut and paste this into your browser.. trying to get better at this kind of stuff... general welcome for newcomers.. if it doesn't work... go to a post I made earlier this morning,... last topic under my name.. HONEY and click to it from another members response.. good solid advice..<p>I feel for you , this must be horrible. MEN, and how can WOMEN, especially a neighbor and friend do this... <p>YOu are in a very good place, ths site can help you alot- stay here and general questions is a great area to get advice and feedback on what you are giong through... HUGS TO YOU! <p>http://www.marriagebuilders.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=29&t=000553<p>HONEY

Thanks Honey. It worked! After reading about Plan A, I guess it is onto Plan B. My H absolutely refuses to give up contact with OW. He told me I have no right to tell him who he can and cannot be "friends with". My question on Plan B is...does there have to be an intermediary or can there be contact only if it concerns the kids? I really don't know who I could ask to be an intermediary. My family won't have anything to do with H and his family doesn't want to get in the middle. Any suggestions?
Thanks again!
BH

BH, you are very new to this, so take a deep breath and study first, before you do anything, and the basic advice is always don't LB (that is just good life advice period with everyone). Don't try to figure yourself out, or H out, or even ow out, just study, suspend your emotions much as you can for a short time. Say nothing to H at all about relationship issues....just routine business stuff. The hardest thing IMO emotionally for everyone (bs, ws, op, kids, family) is to accept life has changed, it will never be like it was, will never be the same. New behaviours must be developed, new decisions made, and this takes TIME. Sometimes folks seem to panic, everything must be decided NOW, all that does is lead to a constant state of turmoil (usually). It seems to have taken a long time to accept the affair was happening, and that must have been awful, you know deep down, but just cannot deal with it so stumble about until finally the truth is no longer deniable by either party....don't fret too much over that, is just normal human behaviour.<p>You are at a branch point in your life, one where you have very distinct choices to make that lead in very different directions, don't rush it, take the time to work on you, evaluate your life, and how you want to live it (as well as who you want to live it with). Make the changes in you that you feel are necessary, and see what happens. If your marriage has been pretty stable, and your behaviour thoughtful and caring, not too much need for a plan a....if you have been a large part of the problem, then yes, some plan a'ing is in order. If you did any serious LB recently, might want a short plan a to counteract it. The ball is really in your H court, he apparently decided to play with fire (how he thought he could do this under your nose astounds me, but makes me wonder a little bit about you), and that it is a friend of yours as well is significant to IMO. There is not enough info to assess much about your H, but if you have been in a submissive marriage, and he has done what he pleases, how he pleases then this sort of thing was inevitable..... If so, read up on emotional abuse, controlling behaviour, sociopaths, co-dependentcy and all that sort of thing. If he is just a foolish man, who got pulled into playtime with the neighbor, then he may be salvageable, but he has a lot of work to do, and you need to fully understand why he did this. To that end he needs to at a minimum start practicing radical honesty with you, as well as following rules of protection re contact with ow. No contact is a tough standard to apply when work or live near ow....but by accounting for all his time, money, and communications stuff (phones, emails, etc.) you can pretty much insure affair is on hold. It would also be positive if he reads books and materials about marriage and affairs, and makes a good faith effort to understand what happened too, this includes counselling. My only caveat is do not act in a "coercive" manner, do not guilt him, threaten him, and all that stuff. He must choose you, and if he does he must also choose the boundaries you set. Many here do not do that, and lurch about from crisis to crisis, without very good outcomes..... those that get tough pretty quick, short plan a (until contact stopped, and good faith effort to participate in reconcilliation effort), plan b (for 6 months or so) and then file for divorce seem to have the most success at discerning whether the marriage is worthwhile, or not (either cause they no longer want it, or cause the ws is revealed as not being marriage material). <p>You are new, for the record I am a wsh. Not all agree with what I have to say, I do not think the focus should be on saving the marriage, I think the focus should be on the mental health of the people in the marriage, and dealing with the truth about oneself, ones spouse, and how they fit in a marriage.... if one focuses that way, IMO the marriage will take care of itself, surviving or ending for the right reasons. It is far too easy to get caught up in this stuff as a game, something to win, winning is not the point....the point is do you want to wake up next to this person for the rest of your life, and answering that question respponsibly takes a lot of work. Good luck.

Thanks SNL. I will think about what you have said. I do not think I was being submissive, just too trusting. I believed him when he told me nothing was going on. Looking back on that, maybe I was just stupid. I am not an aggressive person, as you can tell, so I guess that just worked against me. This has certainly changed me in that end. I have been much more aggressive (but still have work to do). All I have ever asked of my H is to end his friendship with OW. To me, even if there is no PA, the emotional attachment they have is inappropriate and needs to stop before we can heal. If he is not willing to do that, then I don't see much of a future for us. I wish I knew for certain if there was a PA going on, but again I am probably being stupid thinking that there is a possibility there is not.
I will think about what you have said and appreciate your honesty.
BH

Dear Brokenhearted:<p>Well, first of all, please except the fact that your WS and the OW are probably having a PA...mostly because it's obvious that this OW has set out to have your H and was/is willing to destroy your marriage and hers to have him. To see her setting a limit on the affair is unrealistic...the PA is the ultimate end for her I'm sure...proof that she has attained her goal.<p>And right now your WH is like a kid with a new toy...totally absorbed with her...nothing else is allowed to interfere with that...she will see to that. So asking him to give her up is a waste of time...it's obvious her hold on him to too great.
But it won't always be this way...and if you want your marriage back then you have to use this time to prepare for the hard work that will entail.<p>I personally think that men in general are very vunerable to the manipulations of a female who wants them. In most marriages the glow has worn off and men get lost in the shuffle of jobs, children and the household...and they are prime candidates for a woman like OW to come along...giving them the attention they need so badly...feeding their egos...making them seem desirable again.<p>You situation is doubly hard because this all is taking place next door to you...and shame on your WH for having so little respect for you...you deserve better. I think this reflects how lost in this situation he really is....he can't see anything but what is feeling good to him.<p>SNL is right that trying to shame or guilt him into returning is useless and in a way is counter productive to the general progress of these affairs. I differ with SNL though because I don't think that the situation of being in love is always a positive thing for a person...there are people who you think you love who you are really in lust with...but when you're in the middle of it...it seems like the real thing...and you are willing to excuse all the negative elements...at the beginning. But eventually reality will set in and saner reasoning returns.<p>You don't need to compete with OW...she's shown her colors for all to see...and in time WH will too. You need to continue to be yourself...to do the self-examination that SNL describes...and make any necessary changes....and wait. This is Plan A...working on yourself while waiting for the affair to play itself out. But everything you do you need to do from the point of view of moving on with your life...decisions for yourself...making yourself a better person for what life has to come. And if in time, your WH has not come to his senses or if he really decides he has in SNL's vernacular "found the person who he fits with" then you can move into Plan B as the final move to distance yourself from WH and begin the process of moving on.<p>This however seems like a temporary abberration with your WH...and in time he will return...feeling very guilty and very contrite.
I hope it's in time for you to restore your marriage and not to late for you.<p>Faye<p>[ December 30, 2001: Message edited by: buffy ]</p>

Thanks Buffy! Throughout this whole ordeal, I have tried to act in a caring and understanding way. So many people have critized my behavior saying I should get MAD and GET EVEN. It is not in my nature to behave like that, so I tried talking to him and tried to figure out where we went wrong. One of the "bad things" I did according to H was to get angry when he smoked pot (which happened within the first two years of marriage, so 20 years ago!!) I guess he was harboring some unresolved feelings! There were other things he said to me that didn't make sense. Now, I understand he was just making excuses for his behavior (valid or invalid). The bottom line is, unfortunately, he is unwilling to give up his relationship, whatever it may be. In rethinking the course of events, I truly believe I have done the best that I could and have not LB'd. Another thing a lot of well-meaning friends have said is I should change the locks. I feel that if I do this, it is pushing him further away. I don't know if I am ready for that yet. If I decide to initiate Plan B, then I will have to do that, but until then, should I keep the locks and let him come and go as he pleases? So many things to think about and so many problems to fix.
BH<p>[ December 30, 2001: Message edited by: brokenhearted ]</p>

Yes, you will get unwanted advise from all sides in this matter. You have been given a real blessing in having discovered this site because here you will find people who have experienced what you are going through and are here to help you through it...no matter how it turns out.<p>You will find that this process goes through stages...and Dr. Harley's material on this site will help you understand what happens at each stage<p>There is no better advise I can give you then to stay here and read...finding out how similar our experiences are and seeing the outcomes...good or bad...makes this problem seem much more manageble and gives you the feeling that you are not alone in all this mess. No matter what happens help is only a post away.<p>You sound like you have grasped what needs to be done to deal with this matter and are open for what help we have to offer...that will help..because sometimes the people here will need to give you a kick to set you straight...but it's all for your own good.<p>Stick with your WH for a while...when he's ready he will begin the process of coming back all by himself...and it will be because he choses to come back. I hope the time is soon.<p>Faye

Thanks Buffy! I have found a lot of comfort in this site. Just knowing that I am not alone helps me feel better. Reading the posts and the information sites has been very inspiring. I was confused about Plan A, but I think I understand it now. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]
BH

It is 11:00 p.m. and I struggling with the idea that H is next door. I wish I knew for sure. Does anyone think it would be wrong to get up early tomorrow morning (he leaves for work at 6:30) and just wait for him to leave? I don't think I would confront him, just want to see if he is there all night. Gosh, it sounds so juvenile, but I can't think of any other way. Any suggestions?
BH

suggestions? Set the alarm for 5:30 am, make sure the camcorder is ready to roll, and gather some facts, you are entitled to them and should feel no guilt whatsoever. Keep in mind having your fears verified will hurt, but IMO not knowing is much worse...either way it is your call, but if you do it......just be sure to do a good job....HOWEVER, say nothing to your H, this is intelligence for your well-being, not a tool to LB with. Good Luck.<p>btw my wife hired a PI, I was astonished, especially since I would (and did) tell her the truth. But she felt the need to get unbiased factual data, so have many others. Personally it didn't bother me, I would have done the same if I felt the need, she had every right to do so, is her life too, so do you. Actually the only thing she did that made me angry was snoop in my private writings, I still am annoyed by that, I consider my thoughts my own, but on the other hand I came to appreciate and value radical honesty so I gave her access to all my writings (instead of destroying them) even though they were very damaging to me.

Good idea SNL! I will try that on Wed. morning. Thanks for sharing your history w/ PI. I hope my H is as understanding about the need to know.
He will probably still deny the A even if I have video of him leaving her house. I'll let you know how it goes!
BH

This morning I finally had my suspicions confirmed. I got up early and watched out my window until I saw H leave OW house. One more lie to add to the stockpile.Unfortunately, it was too dark to videotape. I am devasted, humiliated, sad, and angry. He just told me last week that he WAS NOT staying at her house. What a way to start the new year.
BH<p>[ January 02, 2002: Message edited by: brokenhearted ]</p>