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#969093 01/10/02 03:36 PM
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Marissa Offline OP
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I usually post over in Emotional Needs, but I thought I'd try over here. I just need someone to tell me that I can keep doing this for as long as it takes. I'm so tired of feeling like we're not getting any better...

#969094 01/10/02 03:56 PM
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Ok, Marissa-<p>You can do this, yes you can! (say it with Builder Bob enthusiasm!)<p>What's up? Nothing positive lately? I know you've written before that 'those' feelings for your H just were not developing. Has he made changes?<p>I've been going through much the same thing lately. HT, persistant, and cerri have been busy over on the JFO forum trying to pick me up. We all need a good dose of admiration sometimes. One of them reminded me what it must have been like early in our M, the passion and happiness we shared. Yes, I'd like to find that again. It seems like it will be easier to do than the alternative.<p>How is your plan for meeting your H EN going? Does it need any fine tuning? You can keep up the energy level. Can you and your H talk with a counselor or the MB folks to help make sure you guys are doing what is really needed to fall in love again?<p>Cheer up Marissa. You've already made it through a lot.<p>HoFS

#969095 01/10/02 03:57 PM
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Marissa...<p>what is this ?<p>What is your plan? Are you taking care of you? I think God gives us the strength to deal with a lot... but He wants us to come to Him and let Him help us... He wants us to plan. and, He wants us to take care of ourselves...<p>[[[[[[Marissa]]]]]]]<p>Cali

#969096 01/11/02 10:14 AM
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HofFenceSitter - Thanks for replying! No nothing very positive lately… I want nothing more than to get 'those' feelings back - it would make my life so much easier. H has changed a lot - mostly in the area of domestic support. But to me, it's just like it's about time. He would have to do these things if he lived alone. All the years I spent saying I need help with the house… But I am really grateful for the chores he is doing. I don't know how to explain it…<p>I don't really have a plan for meeting H's Ens. He has not filled out the questionaire. He asked me to back in the beginning after I introduced him to MB. Then he got mad/upset because I didn't fill it out right away and give it to him. He had not filled one out. So we went over it orally but never finished it. Around New Year's I asked him to fill it out for me. The pages sat on the floor for several days where they had spilled out of the printer. They have since moved, but I haven't seen them since. He has asked me what a good plan A would be for him in my opinion. I told him Plan A was supposed to be him making improvements in himself, not me telling him what to do. <p>Cali - hi Cali! This is the existence my H and I are currently enduring. We aren't even 'really good friends' at this point. I'm not sure either of us has a plan. Yes I am taking care of myself. I'm taking an exercise class and going to the gym, working on eating right and getting enough sleep. Thanks for the hugs. I could really use them.

#969097 01/11/02 11:20 AM
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<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Marissa:
<strong>He has asked me what a good plan A would be for him in my opinion. I told him Plan A was supposed to be him making improvements in himself, not me telling him what to do.
</strong><hr></blockquote><p>He's asking you what your EN's are and working to meet them as well as he understands them, but you're not willing to help him do a better job by giving him more and better information about your needs? Sounds like you're in withdrawal.<p>Plan A really is about him making improvements in himself, you're right on that point. And the part about you not telling what to do is literally correct because you shouldn't be telling him what to do, you should be asking. Very nicely, without LBs. In order for him to do the best possible job in Plan A (and therefore in the marriage) that he can do FOR YOU, he needs to understand exactly what you want in a partner so that his effort can be most efficient. You're essentially telling him to be good, and you'll see if maybe he's lucky enough to do the things you like. If you want a good marriage relationship it makes no sense at all to withhold that information from him, especially since he's 1) asking and 2) working to meet your ENs. <p>If he understands Domestic Support is one of your most important ENs and he's working at improving his skills in that area, why are you discounting his efforts?<p>My xw did this to me, which is why I'm trying to point it out to you. I was set up to fail because she refused to tell me what she wanted. I was left to guess what her ENs were and how she wanted them met. So I guessed, and I didn't get it right. I wasn't able to meet her needs in the way she wanted them met, so BAM! Somebody else had the job.<p>Now, the disclaimer: I based all of what I said on this single post. I don't know your story. If I'm totally off base I'll withdraw my comments and apologize. I'm sincerely trying to be helpful.

#969098 01/11/02 12:01 PM
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o2bsane - I guess I am still in withdrawal, but my point was that I had done the ENQ for him. He didn't ask in an I need more information sort of way. It sounded more like what would your idea of a perfect plan A be. And I really don't know. It needs to come from within him, not from me giving him a script to follow. <p> I tend not to ask him to do anything. After d-day, I asked him to please put away his laundry. I got ignored and he told our C that I was playing games and he didn't answer me because he didn't have anything civil to say. I spent years asking for help around the house. At one point I was working 70 hours a week and still doing 90 % of the housework. <p>As far as what a perfect Plan A would be to me - how do I tell him he needs to be whole person on his own -without me. Find friends, find a life, spend time doing hobbies he enjoys. Take care of himself both emotionally and physically. Be a happy, outgoing, interesting person. Do the things he sees need to be done (or at least try to see more of them) even if they're 'my job'. (He has been doing much better at this!) Offer to help, if I look like I'm strapped for time. <p>I appreciate all the comments I get! I need to see things from different points of view. No need to apologize.

#969099 01/11/02 12:29 PM
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What I wish I could tell my spouse:<p>You are right. I have not listened to you in a long time. I became stuck in our relationship in my 'rightness.' I was right and you were wrong. I wanted things done in my time and my way...<p>I am right. You have not listened to me in a long time. You became stuck in our relationship in your 'stubbornness' not to be controlled. The more I pushed the more you pulled back. I was controlling and you were NOT irresponsible. You wanted to do things you wanted to do.<p>We are both right. All we get from our rightness is that... we win no prizes. we communicate no better. we put another brick in the wall between us.<p>I have to give up my need for him to call me and be accountable... something I see as simply respectful to me is control for him.<p>I have to give up my "expectations" of him. This doesn't mean I have to be walked on... just that he is not a mind reader...<p>In the grand scheme of things I can be right... I can expect things done my way and in my time... I can expect him to act according to my standards... or I can loosen up and perhaps be married to a wonderful guy that I love very much.

#969100 01/11/02 02:09 PM
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<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr><strong>o2bsane - I guess I am still in withdrawal, but my point was that I had done the ENQ for him. He didn't ask in an I need more information sort of way. It sounded more like what would your idea of a perfect plan A be. And I really don't know. </strong><hr></blockquote><p>Ok, I'm understanding a little better now, mostly because I've been there. If I had a nickle for every time I asked my xw a question like "What would you like me to be doing?" and she responded with "I don't know", I'd be writing this from my own yacht anchored in the Caribbean somewhere. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>I honestly believe you when you say you don't know. I don't know either, but that doesn't matter one bit. What really matters is that your husband doesn't know. There's a couple of problems here: 1) Your husband wants to know what will please you, and 2) You aren't yet able to communicate that to him. From what you've said he seems willing - right now. Hopefully that willingness will stick around a while so that you two can sort this stuff out.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr><strong>It needs to come from within him, not from me giving him a script to follow. </strong><hr></blockquote><p>Yes, the willingness to change himself and to put out effort need to come from within him. The knowledge about what's important to you and what you want out of your marriage need to be clearly and carefully and repeatedly expressed by you. If you give him a script, as you say, and he doesn't act on it, then you can assume he isn't interested in a fulfilling marriage. However, if you ask him to change and don't give him guidance, especially when he asks, it's more than likely that he'll give up in frustration because he can't possibly read your mind.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr><strong> I tend not to ask him to do anything. After d-day, I asked him to please put away his laundry. I got ignored and he told our C that I was playing games and he didn't answer me because he didn't have anything civil to say. I spent years asking for help around the house. At one point I was working 70 hours a week and still doing 90 % of the housework. </strong><hr></blockquote><p>I understand what a burden that is. You were well within your right to ask him for help. He was stubborn. It's clear now, at least to me, that his lack of response to your requests was hurtful to you. On the other hand, you have said that he is doing much better in this area now. Do you express appreciation for his help now? Somehow you need to reinforce the behavior or he'll revert back and stop helping.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr><strong>As far as what a perfect Plan A would be to me - how do I tell him he needs to be whole person on his own -without me. Find friends, find a life, spend time doing hobbies he enjoys. Take care of himself both emotionally and physically. Be a happy, outgoing, interesting person. Do the things he sees need to be done (or at least try to see more of them) even if they're 'my job'. (He has been doing much better at this!) Offer to help, if I look like I'm strapped for time. </strong><hr></blockquote><p>Those are all perfectly legitimate requests. They are also incredibly vague. "Find a life" is a pretty general thing to suggest. One of the reasons the EN list is so helpful is because it encourages specific behaviors. What I'm trying to say is that you need to suggest specific behaviors to him. If you are disappointed in him because he doesn't have a life, what does that say to him? What does that mean? How does someone "have a life" in a way that appeals to you? In your mental image of what you want him to be, what would he do this afternoon if he had a life?<p>You mentioned d-day. Which of you is the BS? What's the status of the A?<p>[ January 11, 2002: Message edited by: o2bsane ]</p>

#969101 01/12/02 11:29 AM
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Marissa Offline OP
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Cali - Thank you! I needed that, it made me think.

o2bsane - Thanks for understanding. I need him to take initiative in his life. I need him to be more of a leader in our relationship. And I honestly don't know what to tell him to do. I spent years feeling like he was this anchor tied to my leg that I was always having to drag. If I need to go somewhere without him he sits at home and waits for me to get home. <p>I know he can't read my mind, and I can't read his. But sometimes I feel like he's not a whole person. I don't even know how to expplain this...<p>I do make sure I notice and tell him that I appreciate his efforts. It doesn't seem like that's enough. I get comments that he hears that he's doing better, but never hears that he's doing really well or great or whatever. I don't know how much admiration I'm supposed to give for taking responsibillity for one's own belongings. I knew that he did laundry when he lived with his mother. Am I supposed to be amazed that he's remembered how? And I do thank him for every load he does! But seriously, the chores should be half his. <p>I have not told him to get a life. I said that to my mother once and she pulled this 'you are my life' thing on me with tears and all. I can't take that. I can't stand to be the full focus of anyone else. It's too exhausting for me. But he seems content to go to work and school and spend all his 'free' time with me. I want to spend time with other people, with and without H. I need a life outside of my M. He pouts when I don't want to spend time with him. I wish he had friends to watch a game with, go out for a drink with, etc. <p>D Day was the summer of 2000. I am the WS. In no contact since November 2000.


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