My X-SIL and I have been trading emails back and forth today. Haven't talked with her in a year. We use to be very close. I finally told her how my XH doesn't get the message and keeps buggin me. Told her about the birthday card thing too. Also mentioned how I fear Lana's (OW) retaliation if she finds out my H tries contact. So here's her email to me. Any thoughts, guys?<p>**************************************************
Email from SIL:<p>Happy Birthday, Joanne. I wish it had been better for you. Steve doesn't tell and we don't ask anything. This year though I did ask him in private about you. He told me he stays in touch with you but not much more. If I know Steve, you will always be a part of the family. You may have to go AWOL to get away from his attention. My Steve was that way too, until I remarried him. We both always knew we were attached even when we hated each other.<p>Lana, to her credit, makes herself almost invisible at Christmas Eve. She doesn't speak except to answer questions about the boys. She and Steve are very quiet and guarded I think to protect the rest of us from any feelings we may have. I have to admit, I adore Ryan (OC #2). Stephen (OC #1) is a cutie but Ryan is a beautiful boy. Don't feel bad, we only see the boys once a year at Christmas Eve.<p>I won't say anything to Steve or any of the family about what we talk about. I'm very careful what I tell them on all accounts<p>I know it must be hard for you to get over Steve when he keeps contacting you. He still loves you, I'm sure. Unfortunately he isn't sensitive to the fact that you have to start a new life. <p>Let's stay in touch. You can vent to me any time about work or personal stuff. It will help you heal. I'm not going to offer advice to you about how to handle my brother because I understand him. He's really torn. I do know what I would do in a situation I wanted to end for good. I've learned that (for me) drastic measures are the only way because I tend to be so "nicey-nice." I've had to be a real "b*tch" to get rid of certain people who just wouldn't take a hint. They wait a few years and try to contact me again. I just ignore them.<p>Be happy,
C<p>[ January 11, 2002: Message edited by: Resilient ]</p>

Hi Jo,
I wish I had better advice but I am realtively new at this and am still learning. So...anyway, IMVHO, I would be careful about how much you tell you SIL. It sounds like she is very sincere, but you know the old saying...blood is thicker than water. I have been hearing that a lot lately myself. I tend to tell my SIL's more than I probably should, so maybe I should heed my own advice!! Good luck Jo!
BH

Thanks Brokenhearted,<p>I think you're so right. I tend to forget about the blood/water thingie because XH's family was my only family for so long.<p>I have this nagging feeling that she contacted me at the suggestion or urging of my XH, altho I could be wrong. I've just gotten more suspicious and less trusting of people in the last year or so ... jeeeeez, I WONDER WHY [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Jo<p>[ January 11, 2002: Message edited by: Resilient ]</p>

Hey Jo,<p>I am gonna call, ok?!?!? <p>L.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Orchid:
<strong>Hey Jo,<p>I am gonna call, ok?!?!? <p>L.</strong><hr></blockquote><p>Thanks O. I could really use a talk. I feel pretty depressed, just really blue and sad.<p>Maybe I shouldn't have responded to her card at all, I dunno.<p>Jo

Hi Jo-<p>Long time no hear. I am sorry that you are still plagued by the antics of your X. I really know how hard it is to give up family. My SIL and I were very close, but she is standing in her brother's corner, there is only the two of them left(siblings.) they cannot have a relationship with their mother very well. <p>Isn't amazing what WS will give up for folly? I am amazed sometimes, still.<p>Right now I am waiting to see if my H is even going to respond to the petition for divorce. It would be just like him to space it in favor of squash, work and OW. Yes, she is still lingering...<p>Communicate with your SIL if you feel the need, but keep comments about your X to yourself. You never know, especially if you do not want him to know what you say...<p>Would love to hear from you sometime.<p>Beth

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Resilient:
<strong>I have this nagging feeling that she contacted me at the suggestion or urging of my XH, altho I could be wrong. I've just gotten more suspicious and less trusting of people in the last year or so ... jeeeeez, I WONDER WHY [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img]
</strong><hr></blockquote><p>Of course, I don't know your SIL at all, but I don't get the impression from her words that she is representing your XH. I could be wrong, too.<p>The imprerssion I DO get, however, is that she has no idea how her words about Steve still loving you detract from your progress. These words don't help, do they? Sure, I bet you like to hear them, but you don't need to hear them. (I'm trying to put myself in your situation because I expect this in the future.)<p>Keep talking to us, Jo, we'll be here for you as time heals you.<p>Dave

remember BLOOD is thicker than water... it is true... she can be a friend,... but I would not get too much into it.... I'm sure your relationship with her would be better based on the past than today. I would be careful. She sounds really nice, keep her in your lifee... but there are other things to talk about, right?<p>Sorry it is so hard.<p>HONEY

Hi Jo,<p>I suspect that yur SIL's words brought back a lot of feelings you have been trying to put aside. I'm sorry the hurt is so hard to get away from.<p>I was struck by her comment that she got people to stay away from her by being b*tchy. Don't go there as a way to avoid your xH. IMO that would cause you even more stress.<p>If your conversations with SIL raise your stress level in any way, I'd keep contact at a minimum even though you two are friends.<p>Take care,
Estes

Hi Beth!<p>It's been forever. How are you? I'm terribly sorry to hear about the pending D, Hon. Is your H still drinking? <p>Ughhh .... OW's seem to never go away, do they? I'm starting to think we have to disspear ourselves if only to get them out of our lives for good. Same for xH's too!<p>Thanks for showing up and responding to me. I hope you and kids are well, sweetie.<p>Love,
Jo

Hey Dave,<p>Boy, how did you get so wise? It did feel good to hear her say xH still loved me. As most of us, I want to believe our love was everlasting and meant the same to him as it did/does to me. Guess I'm the one in a FOG now.<p>It was good to talk to Orchid last night. She got me laughing. We shared tapes of our H's OW. I think Orchid was a bit amazed at how vulgar my xH's OW is. I have to say I was too in the beginning. Pretty vile stuff. <p>I'm okay today, still sad, but okay. I don't think I'll correspond with xSIL anymore. I just want to dissapear as far as all of them are concerned. There's no way any of them could understand how wronged I've been. For them they need to justify my xH's actions somehow, even if that means they make me the bad guy. I'm beginning to understand this ... [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] <p>I hope you're doing okay, Dave. I think of you and your situation often.<p>Strength to us ...<p>Love,
Jo

Hi Honey ...<p>Thanks for that reminder. Whoever coined it sure knew what they were talking about.I don't think I can have any relationship with x-SIL without discussing my xH. So I've decided to do like she suggested and go AWOL, but from all of them, not just my xH. I may even relocate via my job. Thinking about Isreal or maybe Haifa, India. Think that's far enough away?<p>Honey, been reading your post and you're growing so much. You're doing a better job of not LBing it seems, I think that's wonderful. Isn't it interesting when we begin to "understand" something we learn to cope better? At least that's how I'm wired.<p>Love to you, Honey. Keep up the good work, it will pay off.<p>Love,
Jo<p>[ January 12, 2002: Message edited by: Resilient ]</p>

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Estes49:
<strong>Hi Jo,<p>I suspect that yur SIL's words brought back a lot of feelings you have been trying to put aside. I'm sorry the hurt is so hard to get away from.<p>I was struck by her comment that she got people to stay away from her by being b*tchy. Don't go there as a way to avoid your xH. IMO that would cause you even more stress.<p>If your conversations with SIL raise your stress level in any way, I'd keep contact at a minimum even though you two are friends.<p>Take care,
Estes</strong><hr></blockquote><p>Estes, I love hearing from you. I feel like I'm getting loving Mom advice when you post to me. <p>It is true, I am stressed now and feel down. <p>My xSIL comment about "b*itchy" is so out of character for her. She is so sweet and so low key, I can't imagine her getting mean with someone. <p>Don't worry, I won't ever get b*itchy with xH. The last time I talked to him I said I didn't want to be mean to him, but I needed him to leave me alone. <p>Why am I the only one around here who has this type of situation? Where my xH feels it necessary to tell me his heart felt sentiments? Why can't he simply "move on", wasn't that the whole point of D?<p>Jo

Resilent,<p>I wanted to respond..apparently you have no kids together??..so correspondence isn't required..as it is for a lot of us..and to be able to move away like that would be great..<p>I wanted to let you know though..that your really not alone in this..when my parents divorced, us kids were older, 3 of us no longer at home and my youngest brother was a senior in H/S..so my parents really didn't have to have contact with each other about things concerning us kids..but, my dad called my mom all the time at work and at home..he'd remarried and had two more kids, yet he still called my mom..wanting to see her .this went on for like 4 years after his remarriage..it made it difficult for her to let go and move on with her life..she finally met someone else..and was able to move on..and their relationship finally changed..I talked to my dad recently..they seperated over 20 years ago, my mom died 7 years ago..and he said..He still loves her..said..in looking back it was his pride that made it to where he didn't work on the marriage and that he still regrets that..he also said..it's not that I don't love Lisa (Step mom) because I do..but it's not the same..and not as deeply..<p>But, just wanted to let you know..that even after 20 something years after their seperation and divorce..he still loves her..and regrets that he didn't try to save the marriage..I know this may not help you emotionally..but, it may help in knowing that NO contact might make it easier..to heal..and move on..but even distance..doesn't help
you forget, just helps in it not hurting so much..

Hi Resilient,
Divorce is such a loss in so many areas. I also was very involved with my H's family.....and even tho they don't agree with his actions...they definitely support him. I have heard from my MIL two times since he left---we used to be so close. I hear a lot from 2 of his brothers--but mostly about financial stuff. I talked to his other brother last week--and he apologized--but I know he will always stand behind Jim.It is like losing a chunk of who you are.
Twenty years ago, my brother divorced his first wife. We were best friends and had been for about 8 years. She loved him to death--but he loved someone else. They got a divorced and we remained friends for about 1 1/2 years. Then she remarried and had a baby. We got our first kids together once after that...and I haven't heard from her since. I think there is just too much pain involved.<p>I think it is hard to go on...but a divorce changes where we were. That was hard for me to understand with my xSIL. But now going through this, I am slowly but surely understanding what happened then. <p>I wish our situations didn't occur, but once it does, it changes more than just the relationship between you and your spouse.<p>Take care and know we are thinking about you. Pat<p>[ January 12, 2002: Message edited by: miserynmissouri ]</p>

Hi Jo,<p>I get a feeling your xH is not happy where he's at now. Fully expected in most cases, isn't it? Every time OW LB's he will be reminded what he gave up and left behind. Time so often does wonders for everyone concerned, one way or the other.
I think I would rather have my H thinking of me with love , if we were D'd. Instead of that horrible WS attitude, rewriting the whole history, trashing all the beautiful memories etc. I believe it's still possible to move on with
love in the heart.And that's what you are doing??!!!<p>Take care

Hiya Jo,<p>Yep we did share a lot of info last night. Man, that OW is something else a real whip in the mouth dept!!! LOL!! My tape sounded quite subdued, though the untaped vm messages (H wouldn't let me record them at the time), were basically of the same caliber but you said side 2 was worse. So I concede that the OW 2 can be bedmates with PBR at the OW psyco ward. <p>Pretty wild assumptions these weired out OWs make. They think the WS's are some sort of property to throw away and reel in at a whim. Well, the Ws' allow it so from the OW's standpoint, why not!?!?!? Dumb bunnies. <p>But Jo, you are not insane so it is not necessary to have anything to do with insane people. The OW does have a child that you care for but honey, that is the hard piece for you to let go. That part where you know love belongs and is not getting there. I believe that after talking with you, it is beyond your comprehension to allow yourself to not provide a child with the love and care that they have a right to have. <p>You know what? You are right. But Jo, you can not make it right for these children. Both their parents are not allowing you to help them in any good way. So you do have to let even those little ones go their way in life. It will hurt and hurt hard. I am hurting just writing this but Jo, pray that those little boys stay strong. That is how you can help them. From a distance and silently. I know you already have. <p>For you now, you do need to move on. Branch out, seek out new friends, create a pleasant environment and share with those who can share with you. You have given much of yourself already. I know you will really never stop giving but you do need to take care of Jo also. We will help you. K? <p>Love and hugz.
L. <p>PS: For those of you who have never had the pleasure of listening to Jo, you must know that she is one of the most gentle, sweetest and soft spoken ladies I have ever met. Yet she displays her resilient qualities through her softspoken ways. <p>The OW 2 on the other hand is a crude and rude member of the female gender which I am sorry to say is an outcast vensuian. How Jo's H got caught up with that vile mouth person is something I can't comprehend either. But no one is asking me to so that's just my opinion.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Orchid:
<strong>
PS: For those of you who have never had the pleasure of listening to Jo, you must know that she is one of the most gentle, sweetest and soft spoken ladies I have ever met. Yet she displays her resilient qualities through her softspoken ways. <p>The OW 2 on the other hand is a crude and rude member of the female gender which I am sorry to say is an outcast vensuian. How Jo's H got caught up with that vile mouth person is something I can't comprehend either. But no one is asking me to so that's just my opinion.</strong><hr></blockquote><p>Hiya L. Hmmmmmm. We shouldn't be surprised at this. (We DEFINITELY aren't surprised about the Jo part - I'm refering to the part about OW's er, colorful vocabulary.) <p>The OP's HAVE to be vastly different, don't they? Otherwise, why would the WS be attracted to them? They have to be different from what the WS is leaving - the BS. It's not the OP's "good" qualities that attract our WSs, it's their "different" qualities - good or bad, as you two have learned in spades. <p>Am I right?<p>Dave<p>[ January 13, 2002: Message edited by: worthatry ]<p>[ January 13, 2002: Message edited by: worthatry ]</p>

Hmmm...
I guess WAT's right on target with what would stand out to you and hurt you the most, but another thing that stood out to me that is hurtful, but SIL is clueless, is talking about those OCs... I'm sorry, they are as innocent as you, but do you really need to hear how beautiful they are or anything of that sort???? I don't think so... [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Do I remember clear that you don't have any kids yourself? I can't remember and I'm so sorry for forgetting, but if you don't have any children this was downright INSENSITIVE of her!!! Grrrrr!<p>And even if you DO have kids, she obviously has not walked in your shoes or else she would have just left the kids out of the discussion.<p>The other thing that stood out to me was that she knows her brother is wrong "but she understands him." In other words, she will always be loyal to him no matter how he treated you. I'm sorry but yuck 3 times!<p>I hope you do follow her advice and ignore the rest of her e-mails... [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] She has the potential of hurting you without even knowing it and that to me, is soooo dangerous to you. You can surround yourself with a much better quality of people and right now it is so important to your full recovery.

Hi Jo, I just wanted to let you know you are not alone regarding the ex's family and wanted to add some thoughts, perhaps insights.<p>One thing we need to remember is that we are all a product of our family of origin. Quite frankly, I believe that a lot of our inner angst begins there.<p>My H, being the oldest of six, (the quiet, smart, "good boy", conflict avoider) with a somewhat distant (only child) dad and a pretty opinionated mom, has postured himself in a particular way in his family since he was little.<p>His family pretty much left him alone... When work needed to be done around the house and he was nowhere to be found, they said "leave him alone, he's reading". I think he was always given excuses because he was NOT the squeaky wheel.<p>His family has continued to give him excuses. "he's intellectual" (So I guess he should know what he is doing.) "IT's wrong, but he is the type who should never have gotton married...he's a loner" (I am his second failed marraige). The list goes on.<p>My MIL and I have had a few big blow outs during this. Neither she or I are conflict avoiders, which in some ways has probably been good for us. She continues to support me...she just compartmentalizes. When she is here for me, she is here for me and the kids. She doesn't really call H. Likewise when she is visiting him. It is OK with me... I do appreciate it. Especially since they are my only family.<p>I know they do realize that He is the one with the bigger problems. My MIL says that she has tried to talk to him, but he just shuts out everyone. But she wants him to know that when he is ready they are all there for him. <p>But, she does bail him out continuously. Like with the baby. She was there when my kids had to "learn" about their half brother and meet him for the first time...because he could NOT deal with it.<p>I think that for many of our WS's...they need to deal with the issues in their FOO's first, before they can learn to "grow up". <p>ANd in fact, we do too. Yes, we are a part of the problem too, since we have our own FOO issues. <p>I think that while MB principles (or any other marraige saver principles) may NOT result in saving the marraige (because it DOES take two to save the marraige....after one does a lot of the ground work (plan A or B) Perhaps the principles can help us focus on ourselves....the one person we can change. <p>I know for all the support my H's family has given him, they too have suffered greatly. My SIL has told me that this situation has a ripple effect. ANd it goes on and on. I try to remember that and accept it, and them. It is not easy...as I am incredibly hurt in the sitation too. <p>I also recieved a letter from my BIL. The one who is the closest (not in age) to my H. I haven't spoken to him for most of this. He has been the primary support for my H. ANd in fact said in the beginning..."maybe H will finally learn to be happy" Of course, my perception of that remark...was "yeah...happy after trodding over every one in the world to get what he wants" "as usual"......<p>But in his letter to me, he commented on how strained it is at the holidays without me. How missed I am and he told me he thought I had been a good wife, a good person, am a good mother and friend, but he could not control the situation. He asked that I not judge him.<p>I've yet to respond. <p>But, my point is, we all really struggle in this situation. I guess our only hope in bridging the dysfunction that seems to pervade our relationships is to try to detach from our expectations of everyone else.<p>And if anyone has any great suggestions on how to do that continually, I'm open!!!!