So when is enough enough? How does the BS know that it isn't worth trying any longer? I can't tell you how many times I have shared bits of my story and MBer's have responded with "I wouldn't put up with that." Why don't I have the self-respect so many of you have? <p>Even with the success of MB principles and their soundness, there are times when a marriage just won't work. BOTH parties have to be willing to work things out. If the WS isn't ready yet, how long must the BS be patient? How do I know when I've reached the end of my rope?<p>Thoughts, anyone?

I bet you think I'm following you! [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] <p>First... have you read this link? Please read it!! <p>Click Here and Read.<p>Now... I'm going to say something that won't be popular, so take it or leave it. When I first came here, EVERYONE was into the Harley concepts. If you said, "Plan A doesn't work" you would get a dozen folks telling you how to do it. If you said that now, you might get a smathering, but more often than not you'll get, "Leave the bum" or "I wouldn't put up with that"... as you well know.<p>Plan A, which you'll read in the link I've included, is NOT about being a DOORMAT. If it feels like it, you're doing it wrong! I know it's confusing... I DO! But it's about YOU... and making your marriage a SAFE PLACE for your WW to return.<p>Yes, to answer your question, there is a time to quit. I did it. The day came when I could no longer accept my marriage (first 20 year marriage). I did what I call "hitting the wall"... I could not take one more step toward reconciliation. Period. I stopped, I filed for divorce, I began to plan my life without my (then)H in it. I loved him still... I did... but I could NOT LIVE LIKE THAT ANYMORE.<p>Only you know when you've hit that point.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by asgoodasitgets:
<strong>So when is enough enough? How does the BS know that it isn't worth trying any longer? </strong><hr></blockquote><p>asgood-<p>There is no formula that everyone fits into. I've been working on my M since I found out about OM1 last April. I didn't realize until recently that all through counseling, my W started a new relationship with OM2 and has left openings for OM3.<p>Each situation is unique. But ask yourself, is there any love left? Do you want to keep going to avoid the pain that D will cause your children and you?<p>Have you done the best job you can in trying to create a happy and healthy marriage so that in ten years you can look back with no regrets? Have you identified what your H's most important EN are and what Love Busters hurt him the most? Have you done the best job you can at identifying these issues and then planning to improve things?<p>I did develop a plan to meet my W's most important EN and identify the most serious LBs. She approved my plan and we gathered feedback on it weekly since late June. I made modifications along the way when she said it wasn't right or it wasn't working. Now, as it turns out, she didn't protect herself and her feelings from other men anyway. When she said what her plan was, it was only the part she wanted me to meet. I feel like I did give it a good shot but she wasn't honest with me and now I am nearing the point where there needs to be some change. But that is my situation and yours maybe different.<p>I wish there were an easy answer. There isn't. I pray that you will find your answer. You don't deserve to be treated like a doormat. So, what are you going to do to change that and work on improving yourself and making yourself attractive to your H?<p>HoFS

Sheryl, Thanks so much. Fabulous info on the link you gave. I really believe the MB principles will work to not only make me a better person, but even save my marriage. I will try to live a better Plan A, I think I've only been giving it 50% effort in the face of all my resentment. DeWayne had real words of wisdom there.<p>And thanks for following me and answering . . .<p>HoFS, Thanks for your insight, as well. I guess I haven't done all my homework. I am sure I could be a better spouse to my H. My real question here is this: My WH is straying by having EA and PA with other men. Is this really a need I can meet? My understanding is that this is an EN from his lack of healthy male relationships, starting with father, brothers, etc. I have heard from some MBers that an affair is an affair, regardless the sex of the other person. I really wonder about that. That said, I am sure that I have lost awareness of my responsibilities to meet my H's EN in the cause of caring for our six kids. Bottom line, at present, I am scraping the bottom of the barrel in terms of my own resources. I'm talking emotional strength here. I certainly don't want to throw in the towel prematurely, and your advice to be able to look back in ten years and feel I gave things every possible opportunity is sound advice. <p>Thanks so much.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by asgoodasitgets:
<strong>.....My real question here is this: My WH is straying by having EA and PA with other men. Is this really a need I can meet? My understanding is that this is an EN from his lack of healthy male relationships, starting with father, brothers, etc. I have heard from some MBers that an affair is an affair, regardless the sex of the other person. I really wonder about that.</strong><hr></blockquote><p>First of all.......{{{asgoodasitgets}}}, secondly, where did you get this understanding that your husband having EA's and PA's with other men stems from a lack of healthy male relationships, starting with his father, is your husband in some type of therapy, and his therapist told you this?<p>Thirdly, this may not be "PC", but I disagree that an affair is an affair, IMHO, a homosexual affair does in fact ad another whole list of issues, one of which happens to be HIV/AIDS. Have you and your husband been tested?

Well there is no way anyone can have a successful relationship when one is not happy and confident with his/herself. <p>I'm not sure about drawing the line. Being a doormat is absolutely, 100% unacceptable. Being a doormat only contributes to the failure of a relationship. Each partner is equally important as the other, and with that goes the needs of each partner. A relationship is not healthy when one person's needs are being ignored while the other's needs are met. Walking on eggshells just so you don't "upset" your partner is NOT good and should not be tolerated. Why would anyone want a marriage where they cannot express his/her feelings openly and honestly? That's not fair and when the relationship gets to this point, you begin to SEE the self esteem issues. And it goes downhill from there.<p>The self image, self respect and self esteem comes from within and not from a relationship. To get the self respect for yourself, do NOT look to your partner to give it to you. It will only come from inside and will never come from your partner. That's a mistake a lot of people make. They put the responsibility of their happiness on their marriages. BUT happiness will only come from yourself, having love for oneself helps to build a healthy relationship with another. But it cannot be one sided. So to answer your question, when the relationship is one sided, time to move along.<p>Love,
Clear

Thanks for the hug, FA. Don't get a lot of those these days.<p>In answer to your specific question, I've done quite a bit of reading on the male homosexual issue, and one perspective is that the male who seeks those kinds of relationships has a "hunger" for healthy male relationships he's never had before. Be that validation or whatever. (the father that tells his son he's doing a good job, for example) I am hearing some of this from MY therapist, just recently started. WH doesn't "need" any therapy, he feels happy with what this other lifestyle is offering him by way of friendship, etc.<p>We have indeed been tested for STD's, which WH found incredible (that I'd ask.) He insisted he's always been careful (like I can trust him on ANY issue anymore?)<p>Thanks for the response.<p>Dear Clear,
I have to agree with you on the self-esteem issues. I know, inside, that any happiness can really only come from me and how I live my life. I have unfortunately made the mistake of making my spouse responsible for my happiness. Not a good thing for either of us. So I'm trying to pick up the slack and take better care of myself (one way is the IC). As for moving on, I just can't bring myself to do that, though I have the kids to think of. As my C pointed out, the kids don't benefit from having two unhappy, unhealthy parents around. If I left and become whole again on my own, is this in my and the kids' best interest? Is that even possible? This is what I must weigh . . .<p>Thanks for the post. Much appreciated.