Hello all! I'm mainly a D/D board lurker but I need your help today. <p>A good friend from highschool just sent me an email asking advice on what she should do. She received an email from an old highschool boyfriend and they have been corresponding for about a week or two.
It has all the Classic symptoms of the beginning of an EA/PA. <p>As I said she is asking me for advice, I would like to give her info on what I've learned here (she has no idea I've dealt with this myself as a BS). My question to you all is, how do I tell her what she is getting into without sounding like I'm preaching or without over educating.
I understand that her willing to listen depends on the denseness of her Fog. <p>Can anyone help me help her? <p>Much thanks!
ASM [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]

My suggestion: radical honesty. <p>Tell her to share these correspondences with her husband and that she should not do or say anything with this old friend that she would not do or say with her hubby standing right beside her. If she does, she's beginning a journey that will probably include pain, anger and sorrow.<p>hg

Hi ASM - what did she ask advice about? Whether to re-kindle this flame or whether it is wrong to re-kindle this flame or what? I assume she's married or otherwise can be a betrayer.<p>I suggest you start preaching and educating RIGHT NOW!!! If she's fogged up and can't hear you, it's too late - the EA has begun - so you have nothing to lose, IMHO.

Thanks for the input.
hg,
Good advice. I will stress that she should consider anything she does, and if she wouldn't feel comfortable sharing it with her H then it is not something she should be doing.
I'm sure she will see reason in that, even if she doesn't follow it.<p>WAT,
I hoped you would be one to reply! Her request to me was very general. More like "what should I do". I think she expected me to be happy and encourage her...boy will she be surprized. This xbf wants her to come and visit him this weekend, so I suppose this is what she really wants my advice on. <p>Her marriage is ripe for something like this, they've been together about 10yrs and things haven't been great but not close to being bad enough to divorce. She's in the perfect state-of-mind to have someone else meet her ENs. <p>I agree I need to start educating NOW, but I don't know exactly what or where I should start. MB has so much info that I don't want to overwhelm her or rather turn her off with too much. I want to give her something that will start her thinking (plant a seed as it were). I will continue from there. I just don't want to ruin a good chance to stop it before it goes any further. <p>You are right, if she is Fogged up or the abduction has taken place then it will do no good. But perhaps it will help her to see the light a bit sooner once it's all played out. Let's hope she's not too far gone.<p>Thanks
ASM

Would the book SAA be a good one to tell her to buy? Doesn't it give the basics of EA/PAs? (I've never read it since my M was too far gone when I found MB.)
Perhaps she will see herself in one of the stories and decide it isn't worth it. <p>Would this book be good or are there any other books that would be better? Are there any specific articles here that would be helpful?<p>I've read so much here that I can't think of any one specific item. <p>Your help is so appreciated!
ASM [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]

ASM - your motives are admirable.<p>I'll bet you know all you need to know to reason with her. You might try expressing that it would be better to work on her existing marriage instead of exploring first (boy, is THAT an understatement!). Perhaps suggest to her that seeking comfort in a manner she knows is wrong - she asked your advice, right? - will likely cause her to further find fault in her husband and then the death spiral begins. Explain that even if no sex is involved, it's an affair if she's betraying her husband's trust. Maybe even ask her how she would feel if the roles were reversed and it was her H who went away for a weekend with a high school sweetie. In the end, if you get no where, maybe just say directly that you've communicated with lots of people suffering the effects of affairs and IT'S NOT PRETTY! In almost all cases, people regret what they did and in every case people are hurt. It's a losing proposition all around.<p>As for books, SAA and probably any other book dealing with affairs will probably have an introduction describing the horrors. But perhaps the best recommendation for preventing an affair if no temptation currently exists is Harley's "His Needs/Her Needs - how to affair-proof your marriage."<p>Good luck and you know where we are if she's willing to visit.<p>WAT

I would also be honest with her about your situation -- how you are a BS and how As start so innocently.<p>It is so rare that we get a chance to keep someone from starting an A in the first place. Don't be afraid of running into her fog. You risk far more by not finding out if there even is fog or not.

Thinking about this some more -<p>Maybe the first words out of your mouth should be, "ARE YOU CRAZY????"

This is great advice!<p>HNHN is better than the other, that makes perfect sense and it will help on the marriage side too. <p>I had to respond to her email so I used a little of both of the first two replies. I also told her that I had experience with this and I would be willing to share it with her. <p>I feel I only have a limited amount of time to get through to her before she makes a bad (understatement) mistake this weekend. I leave for a conference in Denver early Friday morning so today is all I have. <p>I want sooooo much to help. All of your advice has been perfect so far. I want to send her here but I don't want her to be confused/overwhelmed when she arrives, what in your oppinions is the best place for her to start on this site?<p>WAT, I call her CRAZY all the time, so it just wouldn't have the right effect, maybe I should ask her if she's made contact with the mothership?
ASM [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by AStrongerMe:
<strong>what in your oppinions is the best place for her to start on this site? </strong><hr></blockquote><p>I suggest the MB home page - Quick clicks, Infidelity, The beginning.<p>Better yet, cut and paste the text into an e-mail and send it to her as your advice.<p>WAT

THANK YOU WAT!
That was exactly what I was looking for! The minute I read your reply I went to the article and sent it to her. <p>I'll keep working with her today. I haven't heard back from her since my last email but hopefully I'm getting through. I just don't want to overdo and turn her away. <p>Thanks again to everyone! Maybe we've all saved a marriage today.
ASM [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]

I recently got e-mail from an old boyfriend from 20 years ago (!!!). I think many people are running into this from classmates.com.<p>It was obvious that this guy's marriage isn't all that great. I exchanged a few chatty, "What's new" e-mails, then when he looked up my number at work and called me, I decided to nip it in the bud. I told him I was well aware of the problems a marriage can run into, that I'd had problems, and that THIS SITE HAD HELPED ME A LOT. I referred him to all the right books, and told him that rather than lamenting a 20-year-old relationship (during which I wasn't very nice to him anyway), he should put the effort into doing pro-active things for his marriage.<p>Your friend should perhaps do the same thing.<p>In most cases, there's a reason why such "exes" are exes. [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img]

ASM: <p>I'll tell you what NOT to say, that a female friend of my W said to my W when she went to her to ask what to do about her attraction to OM. "Friend" said "Go for it. Get it out of your system." <p>That was 11 years ago. I found out 3 months ago. My respect and trust in my W, mother of 2 fine kids and otherwise intelligent, hard working woman, is still very low, though it looks like we may be getting close to starting a true recovery now. <p>Tell your friend that the pain she'll inflict on her H is worse than anything she could possibly imagine. Worse than watching a loved one die (by far, as I watched my mom die 6 years ago).<p>The right things to do are:
1) Talk to her H about what's happening, and what she perceives as missing in their M.
2) Get C'ing. First for her, then for her and her H.
3) If the above fail, get a divorce, and get it final, before talking to OM again.<p>If her M is like damned near everybody's in the known physical universe, it isn't so bad that it can't be revitalized. It certainly should not be subjected to the pain and suffering that an A will bring on.<p>Say these things, and other things you've gotten from this thread, to your friend. You'll be doing MORE than you'd be doing if you "merely" saved her life. You KNOW that. (she, of course, won't realize what she's averted, but that's okay.)

Well, I don't know if you're lucky enough to have the ammo I had in a similar situation, but this really threw the necessary cold water on the whole thing:<p>A very close friend shared with me how an ex-boyfriend of hers was calling her and trying to rekindle, and even though they now lived across the country from each other, it was no big deal because he's a pilot, plus she had an upcoming trip to where he lived. He just wanted to meet to "talk", of course. He was separating or separated from his wife and was telling my friend that he never got over her and realized she was THE one and all that. He was filling her unmet ENs big time just over the few phone calls they had had.<p>During my divorce, her H had sent me a letter of encouragement because my friend is his second W, so he knew what I was going through, feeling like I would never have love in my life again, etc. He spoke of when he was in so much pain from his first W's infidelity and going through the divorce, he had no idea what was waiting for him in the future--the love of his life (my friend). He enclosed a beautiful poem he wrote about her, a very personal and intimate one that I was actually a little embarrassed to read at the time--felt like I was in sacred territory.<p>So, when my friend started all her rationalizations about her current situation, I told her that there was no way on earth that guy could offer her what her very own husband could, that I knew how much he loved her and she would be a fool to risk losing that. I dug up the letter he had written to me along with the poem he wrote about her. I said, "Let me introduce you to the man you're married to." And I read her everything he wrote about her.<p>It had an immediate effect. Apparently he had never told her what he had written about her, or she forgot. It yanked her right back into her marriage. I also encouraged her to imagine the situation in reverse. She snapped completely out of it. I faxed her copies of the letter and poem immediately so she'd have a constant reminder of who truly loves her.<p>BTW, she had just finished reading Bridges of Madison County at that time. [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img] <p>So, if you know her husband at all or have ever had any conversations with him proving his love for her that you can refer to, it might help.

Conqueror:<p>Man, I wish my W's friend had done that 11 years ago! I could have given her a stack of letters that I wrote my W when we were dating and I was away at school. Mushy as hell, but it might have worked! <p>Certainly better than "get it out of your system."! Dang, and I thought that "friend" was nice, though there was a tension between us when she was over that I never understood until now. B***h! She had an A with her advisor (also my W's advisor) at school after that. She's M'd and so was her advisor at the time. He's having another A with another of my W's friends now, though he's DVd and she's single (but he wasn't when it started). What a guy! NOT!<p>Anyway, I think the point is that a true friend can really offer some substantial help to someone in ASM's friend's position. Particularly because ASM may know enough about her and her H to do something like you did that really has a positive impact.<p>Good luck to you and your friend, ASM!

GREAT NEWS!
It seems that all of our hard work has paid off! She forwarded me the email she sent to him today. I've edited it a little because it was long, but I felt since you all shared in this you should see the results.
~~
Email to xboyfriend:
Let me start by saying this: In just 3 days, through no fault of yours, you have turned me into a crazy person. I can't eat, can't sleep, can't concentrate...I can't sit still, I pace the floor and talk to myself. It the best of the best feeling and the worst of the worst feeling.
So, anyways, knowing how you have affected my life, I'll say this, too. I don't want to have a...I don't know...fling, affair, whatever. It would hurt way too many people, including you. I would die first. If I were not married, this would be the greatest thing to happen in my life because I would run to you!!
You asked me last night if I wasn't happy. I am happy, my husband is older than I am but he has always treated me good, never made me feel jealous, taken care of me, he likes to spend time with me...<p> You remember my best friend &#8220;AStrongerMe&#8221;? Well, I told her about writing to you and you calling last night because she was with me through all the "x-boyfriend" years at school and she's the only other person in the world that could possibly know how big of a thing this is for me. Her question: Can you tell your husband about all or most of this? If yes, then go ahead. If no, then there's your answer, don't go any farther.
What do you think of that??
You don't know how hard this is for me to write because I know that, once again, you'll be out of my life like that (snap). Last night you said you wait another 22 years, but I know you didn't mean it and I'm sure you don't want to be "friends" so I probably won't hear from you again.
End.
~~<p>Yes, she waffled a lot at the end. But I think that for this weekend at least she will be okay. Right now it would be so easy for her to take those words back and see him. I will continue to give her input on how awful that would be.
But for right now I'm just celebrating that she sent that email! You all deserve a pat on the back for your support!
{{{{{{{{THANK YOU!!!!!!}}}}}}}<p>ASM [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]

Heck, ASM, you deserve the pat on the back for posting to this forum! You've deflected a great deal of potential hurt by talking to your friend. Have you thought about showing her this forum? It'd be sad if she were to be persuaded to change her mind by this guy, which could happen. It reminds me a bit of the email my W sent to her OM on my birthday last month. She actually believed it was to tell him that she didn't want to continue the A, but it said things in it that gave him reason to think there might be hope to continue. Things like "I'd truly love to see you", "I adore you as a colleague", "we bring out the best in each other" and much, much more. Too many handles. <p>Your friend's letter was more firm than my W's, but still does give this guy an impression there might be a chance, however slim, if he just tries harder. Stay with your friend here and try to help her through it. Better yet, encourage her to tell her H everything and discuss it with him. He'll respect her all the more for doing that.

Thanks 2Long,
You are right about that letter leaving a lot of open doors. I worried about that too. <p>I sent her the link to the article WAT suggested. I know she read it and hopefully she will explore further. She knows that I've mentioned this board in the past and I will continue to nudge her here. <p>I doubt that she will talk to her H about this. I'll probably have more success in keeping her on the right track in other ways. <p> [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] I just feel so good about the way you all came to my aid and that I could help her to avoid the worst mistake of her life (for now anyway). <p>1 million thank yous!
ASM [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]