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The phoenix has crashed and burned - I'm more shattered than ever.<p>Went to pick up my son from college yesterday, and I thought it odd that my wife didn't want to go and spend the night, etc. So I decided to do the round trip in one day (600+ miles).<p>My gut told me something was up, so I hooked up a phone recorder. Sure enough, WW called OM. They hadn't talked except for a run-in at the grocery store about six weeks ago. They made up for lost time. Talked in the tenderedst of terms, expressed that each other was "love of my life", and how they'll find some way to be together again because God's hand is in their R, etc. Also found out their A lasted MUCH longer, MUCH more intense than WW let on.<p>I am sick - my heart is racing. I don't plan on letting WW know what I know right now. And I somehow have to act normal tonight at a birthday dinner in SF, then a wedding in Vegas over the weekend. Saw MC this morning alone for first time, felt pretty good about it, then afterward.....and I was so optimistic about our recovery. Thought it was real and true. WW could get an Oscar for her performance throughout this whole thing.<p>I've loved and adored my wife, and only her, since we were 17. 30 years thrown aside. I am, and always will be, shattered. I know I'm not supposed to say that, supposed to keep hope alive, but to hear the depth and length of their A, and how, no matter what, their love for each other will never diminish, I don't know how this can ever be overcome.<p>Please pray for me.

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SISF,<p>I think now is probably a good time for "radical honesty". Explain your thinking and what you know. Perhaps play her the tape. I doubt anything can be accomplished unless this whole thing is brought out into the open. <p>I am not implying being spiteful, but I think the people at the church especially his superior needs to know before he moves on.<p>Second, your W needs to know that you know of this contact. Frankly, I don't know what to say, but be honest with her, continue Plan A if you can, and if you cannot it may be time for Plan B.<p>SiSF, you cannot change her, nor how she feels, but you can keep up your faith. It may not end as badly as you think, but do let her know what you know, in fact let her listen to her own words. <p>I don't think you will need to comment to her about how you feel.<p>Don't give up yet.<p>God Bless,<p>JL

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Thanks, JL. My faith will sustain me. I thought we did radical honesty weeks ago. She answered every question, told me I knew every thing there is to know. More lies....deceit....<p>I appreciate so much your advice. I have a call in for MC also. I'll let you know what I do.<p>God bless you, too, JL.

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Hi Sisf,<p>Sorry to hear about that ride going wild again. Does it hurt more like a disappointment? When the WS and OP hooked up again (I had to live through at least 4 -6 of those times), each time it got easier to say no. Arrggh.... seems like they try harder to come back. <p>Ok, so my take is that you use your past experience in this to make you stronger and move forward. With or with her. JL gives good advice. You have JL and Redhat nearby for support. These are good guys with sensible suggestions. The rest of us are just a post away...... k? [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Take Care,
L.

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Shattered,
I'm so sorry, I know how devastated I was as I found out the A didn't end, the contact continued for 10 months, the EA for longer.<p>It's no comfort, but you aren't in a new A situation, it's the same one, just more lies.<p>I think I'd play her a copy of the tape. It's reality, it is the consequence of her behavior.<p>You don't have to decide today what to do about your future.<p>Unfortunately, renewed contact and/or continued A is pretty much the way it goes for a lot of us.<p>Does this change your hope for the optimal outcome of your marriage?<p>God does have a plan for you, this A is not part of his plan, it is a wayward action of your spouse.<p>It's rarely any comfort to anybody, but after 2+ bad years, my H & I are doing really well...and his A was long term, with a co-worker whom he still works with.<p>You can't control your W, but you can choose your own course among those available to you...Plan A, Plan B, tough love, even divorce. You don't have to do anymore, it's up to you whether you want to continue to try to restore your marriage with your actions.<p>Sending up a prayer for you.

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((((((Shattered))))))). I feel for you right now. I know that horrible gut wrenching, sickening feeling you are going through. How horrible to have been lied to and betrayed again, when you thought you had achieved honesty. Damn,it hurts!!
You have received lots of good advice. Your W needs to know what you know. She cannot continue to lie to you anymore and she cannot treat you with such disrespect and deceit.
SiSF you are worth so much more. You have worked hard. You believed in her and gave her YOUR best and she in turn treated you like....well...
Know in your heart you are doing everything you can, and no matter what the outcome you KNOW beyond a shadow of a doubt that you are an honourable man, deserving of honesty, openess and true love.
(((((((Shattered)))))))

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Orchid, Lor, Alberta - Thanks so much for your concern and kind words. The A has been going on in one form or another for twelve years, over half our married life. The words on the tape were daggers, as I only now realize just how far their deceit goes.<p>This new information expands the implications of our situation dramatically. I have a lot to think about right now. I now know the kids have to be told (I can't bear the hurt this will cause them), I know the senior pastor needs to be told, because I just found out that some people are blaming him for WW and OM's departure. I can't let that stand.<p>Thanks for your strength and prayers.

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SiSF,<p>I think you are right in knowing what you should do. I would also like to recommend that you go to the Pregnancy section of this site and read ALL of UsedLongAgo's posts. His W had a 27 year long affair and while your situation is somewhat different I think you will hopefully see things in his view of things that will help you.<p>THere is hope SiSF, but this is going to be a long run.<p>God Bless,<p>JL<p>PS: Here is one of his threads UsedLongAgo If you click on this one you will see this long thread of his. He doesn't have too many posts so click on the sunglasses on one of his posts and then click on "recent posts" upper right side and you will see all of his posts.<p>It is a painful story SiSF, but it is also one of great hope and deep love. See if there is something in there for you.<p>[ May 03, 2002: Message edited by: Just Learning ]</p>

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That is indeed a huge discovery.
I know you will find the strength and you will do what you have to do. My thoughts and prayers and support go out to you!

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Hi SiSF,<p>I know how you're feeling. Just a sick feeling ... more lies, more deceit. I agree with JL, you need to play the tape for her, you won't need to say anything else really. The tape pretty much will say it all. <p>I'm terribly terribly sorry. I know what it feels like to hear your spouse say the things you probably heard. I have been there. It's unreal, so hard to digest. <p>I'll pray for you. Please take care and know you're in my thoughts.<p>Jo

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Thanks, Jo.<p>You all are such a blessing to me right now. I can feel your collective strength.

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SiSF,<p>THere is something I forgot to ask you. How has your W been acting: just before you left to pick up son,and since her phone call?<p>What you are probably seeing is the withdrawal from a very long affair. This may be her backsliding abit. Since the affair has been so long, I would expect that withdrawal would last at least 3-6 months, perhaps longer.<p>The information that the affair lasted 12 years, is very important information. <p>Best of luck this weekend.<p>God Bless,<p>JL

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Hugs and prayers... shattered...<p>Cali

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shattered in SF,<p>I know exactly how you feel ... I found out OM is the ghost from the past and actually it was never stop too. Stay focus ... remmber that never do anything quick while in the middle of hurting !!!. You could do it so far so try to hang on a bit and let it calm down before you make any decision. Getting other opinion or view on your action plan is good.<p>God Bless you -RH-

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(((Shattered)))<p>May God the father hold you in his loving arms and sooth your broken heart.<p>Pepper

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JL - As I left to see MC yesterday morning (before I heard tape from Thursday) she hugged me, said, "I love you. I don't know what I'd do without you." I carried those words with me through my appt., right up until I listened to the tape.<p>I did manage to make it through dinner last night - told everyone I was feeling sick so they wouldn't be overly concerned. Used same excuse to get out of going to Vegas for the wedding today. W left, said she loves me, will miss me, and hates to go without me. She asked if I was OK, I lied and said I'd be alright. When she closed the door to leave I broke down. I knew I wouldn't be able to fake it through the whole weekend, and she needs to be there for her family. I will disclose all the new stuff I know when she gets back Monday afternoon.<p>Cali, redhat, pepperband - thanks so much. I don't know how they can keep hurting me. I've never hurt anyone in my life.

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Good luck to you... I wish there were more I could say. Know that you are strong.

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((Shattered))<p>I know that in my son's case the thing that tore so deeply at his heart was that his WW looked him straight in the eyes again and again and lied, lied, lied. It was as if she was telling him that he was of absolutely no worth. What in the world are these women telling themselves that allows them to justify their doing this to their Hs?<p>I feel so much sadness for you. I hope that hearing the tape tomorrow will jolt WW into remorse and real no contact. I do not envy your telling the church and the children, but it needs to be done. What a mess.<p>Prayers for you,
Estes

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HBC, Estes - thanks for caring.<p>I've written WW a two-page letter that I'll give to her when she gets home. How she chooses to respond will let me know which way we're headed. I'm thinking I'll only play the tape if I have to make a point or if she refutes anything in the letter - not sure I can stand hearing it again.<p>Told my youngest last night that his mom and I are having marital problems, but didn't want to get into details without WW here. He said he'll pray for us and gave me some bible verses to ponder. Pretty together 19 year old, huh?<p>Took son to church today in spite of OM being up on the chancel. I didn't care - I needed to be with my church family today. I feel more or less at peace and ready to face whatever tomorrow brings. I know that God will sustain me no matter how bad it gets.

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SiSF,<p>Ok, let's talk abit. She told you she loved you when she left. She told you she wouldn't know what to do without you. Now consider these statements. They are probably true and that is why you are still married to her.<p>BUT, I will repeat those time honored and often repeated words: I love you but I'm not in love with you. [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] Heard that one before? Of course you have if you have been reading this board.<p>What is my point? SiSF, the WS have very selective memories, which means that YOU were probably the love of her life at one time, and you can be the love of her life again. What I am trying to say, is don't give up so easily.<p>I do think you need to be honest with her and you need to tell her what you know. But, I hope that you can talk to your MC and see if there is a strategy to address this.<p>You know on this site many people have dealt with the WS wavering back and forth and even having the OP's child or becoming pregnant from WS. Even these marriages have been rebuilt.<p>SiSF, hang in there. It isn't over yet, unless YOU decide it is over. My guess is that you don't want it over. <p>SiSF, this is tough stuff, but you have what it takes to handle it. So deal with her Mon. be firm, but be gentle. Don't paint her into a corner, and don't paint yourself into a corner. Make no threats and few promises. OK???<p>Come and talk, the people here will help. My bet she will be angry that you taped her phone call. She will be angry at everything because she has been caught and shown to be liar. No one likes this and it hurts. Many people when they are hurt will be angry and try to shift blame.<p>Just let it flow SiSF, once she has blown herself out, just look at her, tell her you love her and then leave her to carry on the conversation.<p>SiSF, you can do this. <p>God Bless,<p>JL

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