<BR> My fiancee' has a sexual past. She has had 3 partners. <BR> I can't get it out of my mind. just imagining her with another guy. Her facial expressions. Her thoughts and feelings when she was with one of them. <BR> It is not a matter of trusting her or forgiving her. It is a matter of not feeling this terrible stomach ache/anxiety when thinking about it. <BR> I love her very much. That is why it hurts so bad to think of her uniting herself with another guy.<P>KenDoll<P>------------------<BR>!GOLF!

Do I assume you have no sexual past? If not, then you may be feeling somewhat threatened by hers, or that something special was lost. Feelings are not right or wrong, they just are. Sometimes, though it helps to looks at things a different way.<P>The truth is that all of us have a past. All of our past experiences leave some kind of impression that shapes who we are. Sometimes that past includes previous sex, sometimes it does not. In the long run, there are other things in her past, and in yours, that will have more important influences for the future. <P>You might be interested in this old post...<BR> <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum8/HTML/000938.html" TARGET=_blank>www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum8/HTML/000938.html</A>

Hi,<P> FYI. I do have a sexual past. Total of 2 partners. <BR> One was a serious relationship that lasted well over a year, and the other was ONE one night stand. <BR> I regret them both. And again let me stress it is not a matter of forgiving her. It just breaks my heart to think of her being involved in that physical and emotional intimacy with someone other than me. I can't get the pictures out of my head.<BR>Thanks for your reply,<BR>KenDoll<P>------------------<BR>!GOLF!

Sounds to me like you are involved with a control issue. Somehow it is 'okay' for you to have a past but it is not 'okay' for her. Until you can get yourself into a place where you view your fiance as an equal person, you shouldn't be contemplating marriage.<P>Marriage is a bonding of two individual whole individuals with lives, history, gifts, hopes, dreams, talents and a love for one another. When they join together, they become a partnership each one still an individual with strengths and weakness. Together they build a family consisting of their shared lives, history, gifts, hopes, dreams and talents.<P>However, each individual never 'disappears', each person doesn't loose their past and walk into a relationship with nothing. Not only would it be intensely boring, it would also mean that only one person would 'count' in the relationship.<P>Is that what you are trying to achieve? I don't think so. Therefore, you should think long and hard about why knowing about your fiance's past affects you so much.

Alright,<P> One more time.<BR> It is not about forgiving her. And I feel guilty enough about my own sexual past. It is not the fact that the deed was done, just the pictures in my head of her and another guy.<BR> Obviously she knows about my past. She is not thrilled with it either. We both regret our own decisions and each others.<BR> I want to know how to get rid of the anxious stomach and panic attack feelings when I think of my sweet fiancee' with someone else. <BR> I do not believe she will cheat on me. I forgive her and do not hold it over her head. I just wish I was the only one. That is what I would like help on.<P>KenDoll<P>------------------<BR>!GOLF!

KenDoll, you miss read my posting. I understand that you aren't concerned that she would "cheat on you".<P>I still maintain that the reason you have these visions is a control thing. I still maintain that you need to understand that people have pasts - and futures. Somehow you aren't letting go of her past - that is a control thing.<P>You need to figure out why it is so important to you that your fiance have no past. Until you understand that, you won't let go and let grow the relationship.<BR>

Breadwinner,<P> You are right. I do need to let go of the past. I just don't want the past to affect the future with us, sexually,emotionally, or spiritually. <BR> I HAVE forgiven her. It is the forgetting and moving on part that is difficult. Very difficult.<P>-KenDoll<P>------------------<BR>!GOLF!

Actually, if these relationships were before you met her, I'd maintain that you never had anything to forgive her for anyway, but that's besides the point.<P>Letting go of the past IS hard. But, keep in mind that the past only effects you to the extent you allow it to.<P>Good luck!

Please do the girl a favor and do NOT marry her...it will save you both a lot of heartache.

KenDoll:<P>You still don't get it.<P>You are trying to control a person. A real live living breathing human. Probably a wonderful, generous and kind person.<P>If I were her, I would be running very far away from you.<P>Any person who thinks that they "forgive" someone else for something that has nothing - repeat nothing - to do with them, is a control freak. Period.<P>Therefore, you are a control freak.<P>You are trying to control this woman by saying "I forgive you for having a life before I met you. And, I'm never, ever going to let you forget it because I'm playing this lurid, sick, porno video in my brain about you having sex with guys I don't know."<P>Still you maintain you are not a control freak?<P>You need to do some serious mental growth.

I don't deserve the insults.<P>The reason I used the word forgiveness, is not because she had past relationships. It is because both of us are Christians. According to the Bible fornication is a sin. Not only is it a sin against God, but it is a sin against your spouse. So we have both verbally forgiven each other.<P>The reason I brought it up here, was because BOTH of us are having difficulty dealing with each other's past. We both don't like to think about the other having sex with someone else. It hurts. It hurts her for my sin and it hurts me for hers. That is not controlling. I love her, and just have a wish that I didn't have to deal with the idea of other sexual partners. It hurts. <P>I only wanted some help with how to not feel like I was sexually just another "loop in the chain." Though she is very affectionate and helps me a great deal, it will take some time.<P>Attacks made toward me, I felt, we unmerited and hurtful. I honestly don't understand the aggression toward me. <P>-Lee<P>------------------<BR>!GOLF!

I wonder why you mention "forgiveness" in your post regarding your fiance's sexual past? She did nothing wrong to you, she does not need your forgiveness.<P>Get over this, it has nothing to do with you, it is the past. The way someone once put it best..."her past makes her who she is today, which is what you love about her" <P>Just put a stop to your obsessive thoughts. Turn to counseling for your obsessions, if necessary, but recognize that your obsession is the problem, not her past.

I have read the string of posts now, and it seems like you recognize that you have a problem, but it still sounds like you think the problem is with her past, and not with you. You sound obsessive-compulsive about this issue. Discussing it with your fiance can do nothing but hurt the relationship, in my opinion. Why not go to your minister or priest and discuss this issue, to get perspective on whether forgiveness of each other is appropriate (I don't believe it is), and what to do going forward. <P>

Masked,<P> Thank you for your replies. <BR> I want you to know that I am not an obsessive person. My fiance' is attending college 2 and a half hours from where I live now. If I was an obsessive, posessive person I would be going crazy. <BR> I am pleading with you to try and understand something-I do forgive her. I do not hold her past against her, and do not consider her a bad person for it.<BR> The benefit I seek is for me. How I can get past this. It IS NOT a grudge I have towards her. No, I love her VERY much. Enough to obviously marry her and be with her until death do us part. <P>The problem is the hurt of thinking of her being united with another man. It is not something that you can just pass off as obsessive. It is just something that bothers me. I am not hung up on it. Sometimes it just bothers me a little bit. This is very normal. Especially for someone who holds sex in such high regards. God created it for ultimate intimacy. <P>-Lee<P>------------------<BR>!GOLF!

Well, maybe try to look at it another way. You have probably done many things in the past that you are no longer capable of doing--you have made a decision to change and in fact have changed and moved on in directions you believe in. <P>Neither you nor she is the same person as when those prior acts occurred. You are different individuals and you are certainly different together now that you've made the committment to be faithful for life.<P>It is possible that without having had such a negative experience with out-of-marriage sex, neither of you would feel as strongly as you do about the issue today. And your shared values now are what will sustain your marriage. <P>I bet there are enough issues to deal with in marriage without having to constantly worry about some isolated events in the past. Be HAPPY that the events in your life and the events in your fiancee's life all happened just the way they did so that when you met you were both ready to find and marry each other! (Just think, if she had no past she might not be so convinced that you are the one for her)<P>Just turn off those fantasies in your head. If you can't then I do believe you have an obsession or compulsion (not sure which) on your hands, and need to see a professional.<P>

Also, not meant as an insult, but are you also college-age? If so, you can be almost sure that as you mature emotionally your jealousy and insecurity about your wife's past will fade.<P>It is normal to feel a twinge of jealousy when you think about a mate's past--I have those same feelings (but they're fleeting). Whenever I find myself getting jealous or ready to question my fiance over something or someone in his past, instead I think how lucky I am that some other woman did not end up with my fiance! I'm glad that events happened exactly like they did--his past, my past, etc.--because it paved the way for US to meet and marry!! And now he has vowed (or will in 2 weeks) to be all mine forever...I am so lucky.

Masked,<P> Again, thank you for your reply.<BR> What you said is helpful, and you are right in that her past led her to me. She was treated very bad by other guys in her past. Her parents have even told me some stories about how those jerks treated her. We both have been treated pretty bad before each other. Which is one reason we are together now, we are both very unselfish, and tender hearted. Always seeking to please each other. We are both walking talking "His Needs Her Needs."<BR> What hurts me is that she would give herself to someone who treated her that bad. It breaks my heart for her, and for us. <BR> The future is bright, and I love her very much. God has blessed me, and I am truly the luckiest man on the planet.<P><P>------------------<BR>!GOLF!

KenDoll...I am not meaning to be disrespectful or bash...I have gotten so much good advice from this sight and I believe we all have much to offer.<P>It seems to me that you do not have a good understanding of forgiveness. Forgiveness is the willing to bear the hurt from someone else and to let it go...it is not an issue anymore. When you forgive someone, you never bring up the subject again unless it is testimony to help someone...when God forgives he looks from the east to the west and does not see the sin...that is what we are called to do.<P>To truly forgive someone releases you to live. You may not forget about what caused you the pain, but you release yourself by making it something that can no longer hurt you. It is a choice...I will pray that you will be able to truly make this choice. It is the only way you will be able to have a good marriage with this woman...God bless.

Kendoll<BR>I hope i can understand how you feel,basically you both have a past you both regret and neither of you is able at the moment to deal with these thoughts about the other.You say you have "forgiven" each other for this,although if they were mistakes forgiveness wasn't needed.You can not change the past,nothing anyone can say will alter that,only you can decide not to think about this anymore,all you are doing is hurting yourself about something which can't be undone.If you truely want to get over this,then just stop thinking about it,yes it is very hard,but you can do this.With maturity comes the knowledge we all make mistakes some are harder than others to get over,my H of less than a year recently left me after i discovered he was having an affair,i spent a lot of time getting upset imagining him with another woman,but ultimately this doesn't help me to deal with this,now i just don't think about it,if i find myself drifting towards it i just stop.<BR>I believe you are a religious person,perhaps each time you start to think about this in future you can say a prayer instead and ask for strength.The fact you have been honest with each other is good,time does heal and please understand you can't chnage the past only choose to not think about it.I hope this has been of help to you.<P><BR>

Dizzy,<P> Thank you for your reply. <BR> I understand that the key is to not think about it. I understood that right off. One great thing about God is that "He remembers our sins no more." Basically, once our sins have been forgiven, He has better things to think about, and He never brings it back up. <BR> He is God. He has the ability to do that. As a frail human I don't always get that done. I am doing well with telling myself that I do have better things to think about when it crosses my mind. It used to bother me several times a day. Yesterday it was only one time. <BR> Thank you for your comments.<P>-KenDoll<P>------------------<BR>!GOLF!

KenDoll/Lee:<P>Obviously, this bothers you very much, and I would agree that until you can resolve this issue in your own mind, you shouldn't be considering marriage to this woman. You will both be miserable.<P>Since you are a Christian, I would hope a minister or Christian counselor could help. Since you feel so strongly about the sinfulness of sex before marriage, I have to wonder: Have you forgiven yourself? Often when we feel shame or guilt for our own shortcomings, it is especially hard to accept that same shortcoming in another.<P>I don't think you're controlling, and I don't think it does anyone any good to be told to 'get over it' (a disrespectful judgement that implies someone else's problems are trivial). But until you can accept God's forgiveness, and until you can forgive yourself, you will always harbor resentment towards your fiancee, and it will poison your marriage.<P>She doesn't deserve that, and neither do you.

Doug,<P>Thank you for your reply.<P>I especially appreciate your comments about "getting over it." If it was not important to me I could get over it in the snap of a finger. But, it is something I am dealing with and is important to me.<P>She and I had a long discussion last night. We talked about many things including this. I can see "progress" in the amount of which it bothers me. It is becoming less and less of an anxiety to me. I love her for who she is, and who we are together, and the past is unchangable and mostly irrelevant. <P>Though it still bothers me some, movement in this direction insists that it can be dealt with. <P><P>------------------<BR>!GOLF!

Ken -<P>Perhaps this is a piece of advice for after you are married to your fiancee, but for what it's worth...<P>Find something sexual to do together that you both enjoy, but that is a bit unusual. I cannot advise you as to what that would be, but part of the fun of the early part of marriage is experimentation. See what you both like. It doesn't have to be kinky (however you may define that word), but for married people, there are no restrictions on pretty much anything you both enjoy.<P>Then, forever after, you will be able to say "I am the only one who ever...' with your wife. <P>It may also be a good idea to let your wife know that your own sexual past is nothing to compare with your sexual present with her. She may be in need of a little reassurance herself. <P>I would expect that people going into marriage with the attitude I am hearing in your posts will wind up with memories together that will make worries about the meaningless past very minor annoyances instead of major issues. <P>Be kind to each other. It is a good big chunk of what being married is all about.<P>Regards,<BR>rs0522<P>

KenDoll,<P>That's great! Sounds like a step in the right direction.<P>Go slow. Resolve this BEFORE, not AFTER you get married. I wish you the best!

Being a Christian myself, I think I have an understanding of what you might be experiencing. But I have a question for you. You mentioned that both of you were having difficulty dealing with each other's past, are you having difficulty dealing with your own pasts? That was more what I experienced: guilt, shame, and hurt from my own past and it did take time to get through it. It took a lot of prayer and disciplining my mind. I had to resist thoughts of the past and remember that God had forgiven and cleansed me and given me a new beginning, and I had to forgive myself. I hope this helpful to you and your fiancee' in your situation.