5 years later - my viewpoint - Marriage Builders® Forums

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It has been almost 5 years since I confronted my H. He went to work the next day and never came home, immediately moving in with the OW and her children. As time went on, he changed jobs to a location closer to her home, almost immediately got laid off, was unemployed for over two years, and finally got a job working at her place of employment for less than a third of his previous salary. Meanwhile, we were plunged into poverty, I went back to work and to graduate school, and even with a new master's degree and a professional job in my field, we are still living just above the poverty line.

If I had to do it over again, I would NEVER have confronted him. It is not just about the financial destruction - more importantly it is about the destruction that wrought on our entire family. Even though he wasn't a terribly involved father once the affair started, the children still believed he loved them, and they were still a high priority for him. Now they see very little of him, and he has made it abundantly clear to them that he only wants them around if they don't annoy the OW. My son has gone through adolescence without a male role model. One child has not spoken to her father in 5 years. Even a few years ago he very much wanted our kids to go to college - now he is trying to convince our son, who just received a 50% merit scholarship, to go to work and put off college. Not only has our family been destroyed, but this has destroyed my H as well - destroyed everything in which he believed.

If I had not confronted my H, he might have left eventually anyway - but he might not. I can not imagine that things could have possibly turned out any worse than they did, and they might have been a great deal better for everyone. He might have discovered that the OW was not as great as he thought she was before it was too late. Even if he wanted to leave the OW now, I suspect he feels that he can't - according to documents he filed with the court, she provides all his financial support except for personal expenses, and I'd bet he thinks, not completely incorrectly, that without her financial support he would be hard pressed to provide even the meager child support he pays now.

I know that the Harley's believe in exposing the affair - but in my case, I wish I had NEVER even questioned my H's absences. It is no fun living with someone in the middle of an affair, but there is nothing worse than the destruction of a family.

Hi Nellie,

I'm very sorry to hear about what has transpired over these years but please don't blame yourself for this outcome.It is awful yes but your WH was and is the SOLE responsible party here for the way things are.You did the right thing exposing the A and there is no way to know what would have happened had you not exposed.You would have sold your soul and most likely been very unhappy in that situation too.

Why things have turned out so poorly is that your WH contiuned to make decisions based soley on his own satisfaction/selfishness and even to the detriment of his children which speaks volumes about where his head was at at the time and still.

What kind of role model would this man have made to your son? A very poor one and you also would not have made a very good role model of how a woman should be treated.You would have taught him that it is ok to treat a woman,a wife very badly and neither of you would have shown him how to respect one another.

I completely understand how you would want to think things might have been different and better had he stayed but I've a feeling it would not have been.Your WH destroyed the family not you.Please remember that.You don't need to carry around a burden that was not yours to have.Your WH hopefully is living a life that he *deserves,strapped to the OW without his dignity or happiness.Financially dependent.That is where he wanted to be and by golly things aren't so rosey now for him are they.What goes around comes around.

As for the kids,talk to them frequently.Love them and be there for them and show them the importance of higher education.Your son should not be swayed by your WH to give up school.I don't know what that's about but he should be encouraging him especialy if he has a scholarship riding on it.Remember that your WH is making the CHOICE not to see his kids and be there for them.His spite,his loss.

Maybe today is just a rough day for you emotionally and you will feel differently tomorrow.But in my opnion,you did the right thing.You can't play the what if game or you will surely make your self depressed.In a day and age where lying is commonplace,selfishness is priority,materialism at an all time high and marriages viewed as disposable,you must show those kids decency,respect,integrity and dignity.Live your life so that if you died tomorrow,you could look back on your life and be proud, even though it was hard.

Take care. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

O

Nellie, I have a hard time accepting that your H left because you exposed him. He just used it as an opportunity to leave and was going to leave anyway. He left because he wanted to. If he didn't want to leave, he would have stayed there and worked it out. He left because he wanted to be with the OW and most likely was planning to leave for some time. I seriously doubt that your exposure caused the idea to suddenly pop in his head.

Your exposure did not destroy your family, but rather your H's CHOICES.

[ February 12, 2004, 07:56 AM: Message edited by: MelodyLane ]

Nellie, hindsite is 20/20 and for pragmatic reasons you may be correct in your case. However, you made the right choice at the time, it is problematic your H was much of a role model. Being present yet having a dishonest life has got to bleed over into your role modeling in many not so obvious ways. Clearly a strategy to consider before confronting someone (especially for a sahm) is to ensure your economic well-being first. You are a poster child for that consideration. You erred, no question, but don't be so hard on yourself, your H reaction was extreme. I don't know how you went about the confrontation, but to summarily abandon ones children is not a common reponse for a parent. Given 5 years of hindsite, and your H demonstrated behavior, he is obviously not a worthy marital partner, or father, not at all, not even a little bit. His behavior is reprehensible in the extreme, and appears sociopathic....there is no life with such a person, and despite the hardship IMO your children are far better off knowing who their father really is, then having some phoney picture of him, or the role model of a severely disturbed individual. Life altering events send out ripples that flow down throught the years, the decades, in ways you probably can't even imagine nellie. IMO when those ripples come from the revealed truth, they will insure good things.

In my life, my father was an alcoholic, but not intolerable. My mom left him when I was 4 yo. I saw him off and on over the years, he remarried, and had two other kids, and stayed married 40 years. My 1/2 siblings are screwed up, with seriously dysfunctional lives. My life, although not without issues, and I did end up divorced, fared much better, and I have always been grateful my mom divorced him for two reasons.

1. Because of him (and an alcoholic grandfather) I hated alcohol, so going through a drinking phase in high school (and risking becoming a drinker myself)was out of the question, I determined to be NOTHING like my father...sort of a negative role model thingy. I carried this example over into my marriage. I would not have married a woman who drank (and she doesn't), so my children were raised in a "dry" enviroment, and did not drink until they were adults. Now 1 drinks socially but only then, the other 3 do not drink at all, and may never drink. To my mind that is a good outcome, a ripple.

2. My chaotic childhood...not abused, just the usual stuff of a couple stepdads off and on, very little parental prsence at my stuff, no male role model/mentoring etc. made me determined to have a stable family. I vowed to myself at fairly young age I would never abandon my kids, or divorce. I had no idea how difficult and complicated life and relationships are of course. Nor did I understand myself, and the role I was programmed to play in a co-dependent dance, but that was my motivation, and again it was a direct consequence, ripple, of negative role modeling.

I failed in carrying out that vow completely. But over the years, and many many rough times (maritally for us, my w has her dysfunctions also), divorce was never an option for me, and the kids did get raised, felt safe, and were (and still are) mentored. Regardless of what one thinks of me, I did a far better job than my dad, my kids have issues too (because of the marital enviroment), but are equipped a lot better for successful life than my 1/2 siblings raised by my dad....the ripples continue in their lives too, they each have small kids raised in broken homes, and some parenting which, while they are loved, has issues.

Further my father never paid his child support, and we struggled because of it. I had little respect for him on that basis as well. And though I had not thought about such issues, cause I had no intention to be divorced, another ripple (or maybe it is character, I dunno, makes no difference), I am responsible....in fact, I am hyper responsible, and occassional accused of being controlling. It is a peculiar kind of control manifestation though, as it revolves around only 3 things, health, safety, and well-being of people I feel responsible for. Anyways, the point is in my divorce I was motivated to, and did IMO, make sure my w was adequately provided for, nor will she ever "starve" as long as I am alive. Nor will our kids allow either of us to "starve" should it come to that. My w continues to have issues, primarily emotional in nature, and that was expected, it is why we were estanged in the first place, we just cannot function together in a healthy manner... and there is a lot of conflict yet between us, but I did and still provide appropriate financial support. The divorce settlement in terms of assets, material goods, and support monies (for next 14 years) is worth $400,000.00 to $500,000.00 dollars, and represents the majority of the marital estate at the time of the divorce. Nor does she have to "chase" me to get any money she has due.

I am nothing like my father, yet that is one of the (many) insults she subjects me to. I am sorry I wandered off, and I have learned that lesson well, and the nature of emotional vulnerability, and the need to protect oneself...and as well the arrogance of thinking I was somehow morally superior to others, and not subject to unfaithful behavior. You can rest assured my kids are being thoroughly indoctrinated in everything I have learned, hopefully this will help protect them in their marital lives....and that nellie, is another ripple.

[ February 12, 2004, 08:26 AM: Message edited by: sufdb ]

btw, I agree with october, IMO it is terrible role modeling for a spouse to accept an unfaithful spouse for pragmatic reasons... they learn all the wrong things about healthy marriage....and that is a ripple to, a bad ripple, bad ripples are based on lies, deciet, and avoidance of truth. Focus on the good ripples nellie, your kids can profit substantially from what has happened...but a lot of that depends on you and your attitude.

I really don't think he choose to leave for any other reason than he wanted to.

Its foolish to believe otherwise. If you stick that line of self blame then you might as well say it was your fault he slept around on you.

Nellie,

You and I seldom post to each other, largely because our philosophies have been, and still are, usually opposite.

But right now I just want to wish you well.

Peace

Understanding

Prosperity

Love

Pep

You don't know what would have happened. What you did was stand up for your own dignity.

I am sure that the idea of leaving did not just pop into his head when I confronted him (if nothing else, I am sure that the OW had been encouraging it), but I think that there is a good chance he would have not have brought it up had the opportunity not presented itself. He might well have kept putting it off and putting it off, no matter how much the OW pushed - certainly that is very common behavior for WS's - and eventually the affair might have petered out, or the OW may have done something so extreme that it would have led to the end of the affair. At the very least, we might have ended up buying a more suitable home than where we were living at the time, a place where the kids and I could have reasonably considered staying permanently. After all, we had only the evening before offered on a house.

I know he wasn't much of a husband while he was in the affair, nor was he a great father at the time - but he is so much worse of a father now. For 18 years he WAS a loving father. At the time, the children did not realize he was having an affair - they just thought he was working a lot. Even with the time he spent with her, he was gone less than those parents who work a 60 hour week. He did everything that is typical in an affair, but without spending much money - when he ran up a huge cell phone bill, it was $48. After he left he went out and bought himself a red SUV - but it had 50K miles on it. Whatever gifts he gave her, he must have bought with the $50 cash he took out each week for lunches, etc. - he was nothing if not thrifty.

His affair and his leaving was his horrible choice, and I do not blame myself for that. However, it is also a teenager's choice when they get involved with the wrong crowd, but anything a parent can do to prevent that, even something as drastic as moving, may be able to prevent a disaster. If, by reading of my experience, someone else can be prevented from doing something that would even inadvertantly encourage a wavering WS to leave, I think it is worth posting it.

Nelli - yes your husband choice was to involve himself with a woman that had no morals, as well as your husband. During your husbands affair, he abandoned you, your children. I know, my xh did the same. He would be gone most of the day, and nights, talking on the cell phone to his ow. For they would talk 8-10 hours a day. He would not talk to us much, and there were many times, that he yelled at us for anything we did. We all were living on eggshells for fear of what the father would say. When my oldest son found out about his fathers sexual activity with the other woman, through an e-mail, which resulted in the other kids knowing that dad put in words on paper very graphically all they had done, my oldest son and dad had a physical confrontation. My children which are all adults now, are torn, and hurt by their fathers actions. My oldest still says to this day, that what dad did was wrong, and yes that dad did have sex with the other woman. Cause we discussed the Bill Clinton thingy, which XH says, all he did was that and it was not sex.

Your kids are emotionally messed up. This is expected, for they see their father caring about another woman, and not their mother. They also, see their father lacking respect for their mother. The finances have gone downhill. Which in my case it has too. I am not financially well off. I had to fight for childsupport and alimony since June of 2003. And I am on foodstamps only till the end of this month. I threatened to take my XH to court, and begged him to pay me. To no avail, until recently. Now he wants to go to court for fear of him being taken to jail. Oh well, I am not ready now. I waited for 6 months, and he was not scared at that time. But now he seems to be scared, but I have other issues to deal with, and that is not one at the top of my list now.

What you did is not push your husband to leave. He was going to leave anyway. They think the grass is greener on the other side. They think the other woman is much finer. But in truth, they will find that they were not seeing with their eyes open. They fell for LUST, SEX, and denial. My XH fell for a woman, that already had a sexual affair in her marriage with a minister earlier in her marriage. He fell for a woman that used him, and used me his wife at the time. This is the mental capacity of a wayward spouse. Your husband did commit adultery, and your children see the adulterous father. They are hurting deep inside, and don't know where to go with this information.

Your husband has screwed up the family. Yes, it was his decision. Like my XH, screwed up our family. Your children are hurting as well as you, and it will continue to hurt, cause the scar is sooo... deep. My kids hurt everyday. And we are no longer a family. My kids see who pays for everything, dad, cause he makes a great amount of $$. Heck dad is flying all the kids out of state for vacation, and who is paying for it all. Of course dad. I can't do this. I don't have the money.

Don't beat yourself up. Your husband chose (God sees his sin). Your husband chose to live with the other woman, which God sees as sin. Your children are seeing that dad is messed up. Encourage your kids to go to school to better themselves, and get a good job.

Have, you had your kids in counseling? I wanted to put my kids in counseling, and my XH at the time H wouldn't let me do this. He said he will talk to them. Well, he did his part of portraying me in false terms. And I did put on paper what is the facts. Now I don't get the hassle I used to get. It is so surprising to see that my XH thinks he has been doing like he should of per the divorce. The truth is, if he had, I would of been in better emotional status, and not crying and going to the government for financial help. I wonder what he thinks of all this crap that I have had to deal with and still deal with?

You are a good person, all of us betrayed spouses are good people. The betrayer is good too, but they need to beg and ask for forgiveness of their adulterous sins, and other sins. I don't feel my XH has asked God, for he swears quite often, and speaks disrespectful of others. I know he has a high ballistic side to him. And I am praying for him to calm down, and become a calmer more affectionate man. Then that way he can become a better mate to another woman, and not put her through what I have had to deal with for 25 years.

Nellie1, Thorned Rose, has so many good views and statements. We can ask God for forgiveness. And there may be a future with our xspouses, maybe. If we are both willing to forgive, and start over. Until then, nothing will happen.

I am still having a hard time, cause my XH doesn't know but I still have dreams of the other woman. I never saw her in real, but the picture of her was enough. I don't care for this woman, I just don't want to see her, or hear her voice again. For the last words I heard from her were manipulative words of her calling me on the phone and telling me what I have to do. That she was going to commit suicide. I should of told her to do it, but being the compassionate caring person I am, I fell for her baloney trick. And she proved later that she was using me. And my h at that time didn't even try to protect me from this evil woman.

You are carrying a overload of the house. Taking care of the kids. Taking are of yourself. Taking care of finances. Us who were betrayed, have been put in the situation that we have to survive, and there is no room for relaxation. No room for us, for we are surviving every minute. But that is what the wayward spouse did.

Nellie1, you are loved by God. Thorned Rose will keep you on track. I admire her writings, and statements. I know that God loves me, and if it weren't for God I would be dead now. Cause I didn't want to live, for the person that I gave my life and body to, told me to my face that he didn't love me and loved the other woman only, and that he never loved me. And during my XH affair, my father was dying a long horrible death of lymphoma cancer. I kept it from my dad, for I didn't want him to see me so sad. He did ask why I was losing weight, and I said I was walking a lot. Which I did, cause that was the only way that I could get this stuff off my chest, take my dog and talk to God. I cried to God many many hours of each day.

Keep your chin up hon. I care about you and there are many here who care to. Here is a big (((((HUG)))) for you for today, and one especially big (((HUG)))(((HUG)))) for tomorrow on Valentines day. We care and love you.

Nellie,

You message struck a chord with me since I also wondered if I should somehow tiptoe around WW's affair and hope for the best. I realize now that had I not spoken up, she would have left eventually in any case. She was moving away from me and our marriage, it is now so VERY obvious. I was in denial about it. The only thing not confronting here would have brought about was a delay.

I would be facing the same issues I am now, but I would be a few years older with MORE to lose.

We have to face the fact that your H and my WW are not the people we married. They are gone and actually have been gone for a long time. These new people don't care about us. As Dr. H and other experts have said affairs are very selfish. The woman I married was not selfish. The person she became is very selfish. Not confronting her would not have changed that. I did nothing to make her selfish and I could not have prevented it.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Nellie1:
 I am sure that the idea of leaving did not just pop into his head when I confronted him (if nothing else, I am sure that the OW had been encouraging it), but I think that there is a good chance he would have not have brought it up had the opportunity not presented itself. He might well have kept putting it off and putting it off, no matter how much the OW pushed - certainly that is very common behavior for WS's - and eventually the affair might have petered out, or the OW may have done something so extreme that it would have led to the end of the affair.
<hr /></blockquote>And he might not have. All these hypothetical situations are just that: hypothetical. You can spin it any way you want because you just don't know. For all you know, he was going to tell you the next day.

I can't imagine, though, why you choose to spin it in a way that makes you feel badly, as if you had some kind of power over him. The truth is that you DIDN'T. He made that choice all on his own. He didn't leave against his will, he left because he wanted to.

I appreciate everyone's concern. I know that there is no way to know for certain what he would have done had I not confronted him - but it is hard to imagine that it could have been any worse. Perhaps he would have left at a later time - but that at least could have been months or even years later - giving our kids a father for a while longer. Every additional day would have been something.

Every additional day would have been something -- more modeling to your children of what a marriage shouldn't be, more degregation for you...

No, my children were completely oblivious - after he left, each one (except for the toddler who could barely talk) independently said something about how he or she had absolutely no idea anything was wrong, they always thought our marriage was fine. From their point of view, there was nothing wrong - my H was more irritable than usual, but not necessarily specifically directed at me or at them. So much had happened in the few months preceeding this - a relative had been murdered, our oldest had gone to college, my H had just recovered from surgery, one of my kids had just broken a bone. My H and I were spending a fair amount of time house-hunting together. We had taken to staying in bed a bit later than usual some weekend mornings. If anything, he and I were spending a bit more time than usual together privately. He was gone somewhat more than usual, but the kids thought he was working overtime. How was this modeling what a marriage should not be?

Nellie, I am just astounded that you, as a grown mature, thinking woman, engage in such an obviously futile, irrational game of WHAT IF. I mean, you have been doing this for years and I am just astounded that you can't see the lack of logic and the inherent negativity in this silly exercise. You are beating yourself up for NO GOOD PURPOSE. WHY?

My son was killed in 1999 in a car accident and I am sure there are many scenarios I could conjure up in order to blame myself. But, for WHAT PUPOSE?? It is all pure conjecture and highly illogical. It accomplishes NOTHING. It does not bring my son back. It is not even a LEARNING EXPERIENCE.

One can't POSSIBLY KNOW what would have happened "if only," so why in the world would you persist in torturing yourself like that? You could just as easily conjure up an opposite scenario that doesn't point the finger of blame at YOU using the same logic. The evidence is just as great to support an opposite conclusion.

The bottom line is that your H left of his own free will. It was his choice, not yours. You didn't choose that for him and it's irrational to think otherwise. If you want to blame yourself, that is your prerogative, but don't try and convince people he left because you exposed him; that dog won't hunt.

[ February 15, 2004, 11:45 AM: Message edited by: MelodyLane ]

To put it simply, you cannot logically blame yourself for something over which you have NO CONTROL. You had no control over his decision.

Listen to Melody. You are POWERLESS. You cannot control the behavior of others. It can't be done. We can only control our own behavior.

Nellie1,

You and I have never really seen eye to eye on a lot of things either--but I am sorry you and your children are still living this pain--

You mention your ex-h still doesn't see the kids very often--have you considered it might be because of his own guilt and shame?

He's ashamed to see them and spend time with them knowing he walked out on them?

And the guilt is so overwhelming for him--that he stays away? and that maybe He's afraid to be apart of their lives because he's not sure how to face them past his own guilt?

And have you considered the possiblity that his leaving was caused in part by the same guilt and shame? Not knowing how to face you--now that you knew the truth?

What she must think of me? how could she love me now? I'm not worthy of being married to her--she deserves so much more than this--she'd be better off if I left--

just somethings to consider--

Nellie,

Honestly, I realize we have different perceptions of this issue, but there are some very simple differences that might help you out a bit.

Personal choices make a difference. I realize we all make choices based on our perception - I saw my ex leaving as an opportunity to improve our lives - and to be honest, that is exactly what happened. You saw it as a detriment, and you evidently still feel that way.

I'm sure there's something there about the value of positive thinking - but I'll let you figure it out - I know you have the ability.

Blessings,

Jan

I want to make it clear that I do not blame myself for his affair or the fact that he considered leaving. However, I do believe that there is a significant chance that he would not have left had I avoided confronting him. I would like to encourage others who are in a similar situation to consider carefully the option of "tiptoeing" around the affair, as another poster put it. In my case, it certainly couldn't have been any worse.

If we really believed we had absolutely no control over the actions of others, then there would be no point to Plan A, Plan B, or even practicing interviewing skills, or sales techniques. Almost everytime we open our mouths, whether to present a proposal to our boss, or get our kids to pick up their rooms, we are trying to exert control over someone else's behavior.

MelodyLane,

I am sorry that you had to experience the tragedy of losing your son. There is nothing worse than losing a child. I am sure it would do no good for you to try to blame yourself. What about cases where a parent is responsible, inadvertently - some of these parents have used the tragedy as a springboard to educate others about the dangers of whatever causes the death of their children - such as venetian blind cords, not using seat belts, etc. My situation is not directly comparable, of course, but I would hope that perhaps someone would think twice before doing something that could result in their spouse leaving, when sometimes doing nothing is best.

I am sure my H does feel guilt and shame and that may be a part of why he sees little of the kids - but I think the primary reason he sees so little of his children is the fact that the OW doesn't want them around. Even though my H may have felt some guilt about me, I doubt very much that he could possibly have thought that I would be better off left alone to raise 6 children.

Unfortunately, positive thinking is only useful when it is grounded in reality - in cases where there is no upside, it is merely foolish to pretend that there is. I can not think of a single significant way in which my life or the lives of my kids have improved after my H left - unless you count as significant the fact that I can put the toilet paper roll on any way I want to.

[ February 15, 2004, 08:47 PM: Message edited by: Nellie1 ]

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Nellie1:
[QB]
MelodyLane,

I am sorry that you had to experience the tragedy of losing your son. There is nothing worse than losing a child. I am sure it would do no good for you to try to blame yourself. What about cases where a parent is responsible, inadvertently - some of these parents have used the tragedy as a springboard to educate others about the dangers of whatever causes the death of their children - such as venetian blind cords, not using seat belts, etc.<hr /></blockquote>In those cases where the parents WERE responsible and/or the death could have been prevented, you certainly have a point.

However, that is not the case here. Just as in your case, there was nothing I could have done to prevent his death. Nor was there anything you could have done to prevent your H's leaving. He left for one reason and one reason only: HE WANTED TO. He did not leave against his will.

Had he wanted to stay, he would still be there today regardless of whether or not you exposed him. Maybe if you hadn't confronted him, he would have stayed another week - maybe not. But it's unrealistic, silly and fruitless, to sit around and speculate about what might have been. What if's are a fruitless, silly game played by those who can't accept reality.

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> My situation is not directly comparable, of course, but I would hope that perhaps someone would think twice before doing something that could result in their spouse leaving, when sometimes doing nothing is best. <hr /></blockquote>Nellie, why would they think twice about doing the right thing? Just because your H chose to leave does not mean that confronting your adulterous spouse is the wrong thing to do. It is always the right thing to do regardless of the outcome. There are no circumstances where it is right or correct [or healthy] to help a spouse hide destructive behavior.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Nellie1:


Unfortunately, positive thinking is only useful when it is grounded in reality - in cases where there is no upside, it is merely foolish to pretend that there is. <hr /></blockquote>There is nothing realistic about persisting in an irrational belief that you somehow forced your H to leave by confronting him. You are ascribing a power to yourself that you simply do not possess. You did not force your H to leave. He left because he wanted to; because he CHOSE to leave. There is nothing positive or negative about stating that fact, it simply is the truth. And its unrealistic to think otherwise.

nellie, I understand your point, and partially agree. In general it is better to have a plan before any kind of serious confrontation in life. And your admonition to consider a spouse may summarily depart, and what the consequences of that action would be, is...... prudent. And one should have a plan. But I have a hard time considering your H was a good role model, I cannot reconcille the myriad of subtle behaviors he must have been broadcasting, as not having consequences as a role model....further, the longer the deception continued, the greater the shock and trauma as the kids realized the lie they lived, not only by their father...but the complicity of their mother as well in the deception. This IMO would be a devastating psychological injury to your kids...just a deferred one. True, maybe your h would have ended that affair, not started another, and somehow the deception made a family secret forever....but ya know nellie, I am not a fan of family secrets, they are a cancer eating away. The problem is you would know, and you could not possibly behave as if you did not know....this would have altered your behavior and injured your children...there are no free rides nellie. Continuing a deception for a short time, can make sense, but as a way of life......no.

On the other hand, his leaveing as he did, has revealed the truth about him, and that truth is there for the kids to understand, no pretense...and that is best. The financial consequences were unfortunate, but such things can be opportunities for bonding as well. Your H behavior is extreme, but has anyone tried to interact with him....not necessarily confront, but get a foot in the door? If in fact he is a pliable man, and the ow has um..... kinda programmed him, why not try to undermine her? Surely he would respond to his kids if they tried wouldn't he? But then, maybe not, if not, he really is unworthy nellie, and they are better off without him, his role modeling, or his influence.

Hi Nellie, it's been a long time. I don't post often, but you caught my eye. There's something about your situation that always makes me take pause.

Maybe it would have saved your family some heartache had you backed off and let the affair "run its course"... none of us will ever know that. Personally, I couldn't hide it once I knew, but I know some who have, and do, and go on in their marriages. An ex-SIL and her H come to mind - They lived with the "Don't ask, Don't tell" mentality (both cheated) - and they're still married. Heck, what do I know?

I do want to discuss this idea of staying positive:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />positive thinking is only useful when it is grounded in reality - in cases where there is no upside, it is merely foolish to pretend that there is. <hr /></blockquote>I couldn't agree MORE!!

Nellie, I'm sure there are good things in your life that you don't write about here - mine too - but when you want to vent about stuff and share some wisdom you've gotten from your life, you just do it.

For me, I wish I could pull myself up when I feel so weighted down with crap... and at times, I can. But sometimes, if I'm really honest, I just don't want to... I'm tired, I'm broken, and I'm trying the best I can. My guess is that it's how you feel sometimes too. If not, I'm sure you'll tell me so.

Take care Nellie.

I disagree that confronting is always the right thing to do. Thousands of people, probably millions over the centuries, have not done so, and I think in many cases they were better off to have avoided confrontation. I disagree that speculation is useless - would you also say that it is useless to speculate about whether World War II would ever have happened had Germany the victors not inflicted economic disaster on Germany after World War I? Without speculation, how could oneself or others ever learn from mistakes?

I did not "know" that the OW existed at the time of confrontation - I suspected, and his behavior was certainly odd, but I did not actually find out for certain for about a month and a half after that.

I doubt my children will ever say much to him. The younger ones are scared that if they were ever to severely antagonize him, he would not allow them to see him again. But they have asked him numerous times to spend more time with them, to no avail. The oldest want nothing to do with him.

Sheryl,

It's good to hear from you again. I suspect that it might have saved the children a great deal of heartache, not to mention poverty.

Yes, there are certainly good things about my life - mostly my children.

On this board, the advice generally given is to confront, with little discussion of the possible consequences. I think it important to point out the negatives of that approach.

Nellie,

Could you have really lived with the fact that your H was having a affair and you were doing nothing about it? What about the kids? What would that have taught them because eventually the affair would have been discovered by them also. I feel you did the right thing. You taught your kids a valuable lesson abut life and struggling and surviving. You taught them right from wrong and that it isn't right to cheat on your family. I'm sure your kids have the highest respect for you as a mother. You have made so many sacrifices for them and they won't forget it.
I feel it is much better for children to have 1 really good, strong, moral parent then two weak ones. You would have been weak if you would have lived with the affair.
You should be proud of all you have accomplished the past 5 years. I remember your struggle with 5 kids and no money. You went back to school, got a good job ect.

Quit looking back because you can't change what happened.

Jill

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Could you have really lived with the fact that your H was having a affair and you were doing nothing about it?<hr /></blockquote>Yes. It certainly would be no fun, but the alternative proved worse.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />What would that have taught them because eventually the affair would have been discovered by them also.<hr /></blockquote>I am not at all sure that they would have ever found out about it. His leaving guaranteed that they would find out.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />You taught them right from wrong and that it isn't right to cheat on your family.<hr /></blockquote>I am not convinced that this was the lesson they learned. While they certainly learned that I don't believe that it is ok to cheat, they have learned the exact opposite from their father. Obviously everything I have done, going to school, working hard, being faithful - has got me exactly nowhere. They may have seen that hard work can get you a good GPA, but it sure as heck doesn't mean you can earn a living wage.

[ February 16, 2004, 07:37 PM: Message edited by: Nellie1 ]