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Just had a pretty good day even though the pain in the pit of my stomach has not left.

took the kids to the pool, had a great workout after 14 days of sitting on my bum, brought a buddy home for my oldest son.

On the way home, we stopped to get a snack. As I drive out, there is the OMs car. Seems like a minor thing, but I feel like someone literally stabs me every time. He stopped driving by my house after I broke things off, now he is doing it again. (I am at the entrance of the neighborhood. He can go left which takes him by my house, or he can go right which avoids my house.) I was so happy when he started taking the other route. Then last night I am talking on the phone to my best buddy in the world, praying together, having peace, and there he goes! I felt like I had been hit by a baseball bat. It sounds silly, but it knocks me back to square one. I feel little and stupid, and then have to realize all over again how easy it seems to him to go his merry way with no repurcussions.

i know I did this to myself and my own M. I have confessed and we are working through the aftermath. He is just going happily on with his own life with nothing bad to show for it. Sounds a little vengeful, I know.

Anyway, I am tired of seeing these cars every day! God must know what I can handle. Sorry. Just really needed to tell someone. Thanks MBERS.

[ June 26, 2004, 05:01 PM: Message edited by: runawaypot ]

USE your sense of humor...

call it

"the creep-mobile"

and imagine a giant cockroach is at the wheel....

then imagine a giant can of raid...

and then imagine the creep-mobile sprayed with raid....

and imagine the coackroach coughing and eyes watering...

and the little creep-mobile drives all crazy...

finally the creep-mobile crashes into a GIANT pile of manure !

end of film....

academy award speech pending.....

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

This too will pass.

I just saw your post Pepperband. I will do it. If I laugh as hard as I just did, I may wreck my own car. It would be worth the imagery however.

I know my post sounds pitiful. It just happens to cause physical pain when I see anything to do with him.

I feel like crud because I am the WS and the BSs out there have got to feel that physically sick pain too.

Thanks for just listening. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

You have completely normal feelings. Stick with us and you WILL get through this.

Hang in there - it will get better!

I’m in recovery for a long time now and I can promise you, this will get better. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> I still work at the same company as former OM. Sometimes I accidentally see him; bump into him; see his car etc., but these incidents don’t have such a big influence on me like it used to be. Give it time and patience... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

[ June 17, 2004, 03:13 AM: Message edited by: Suzet* ]

runawaypot,

hang in there!! you did really good by sharing that here. you will make it thru this.

[ June 17, 2004, 07:25 AM: Message edited by: FinallyLearning ]

I know my post sounds pitiful. It just happens to cause physical pain when I see anything to do with him.

Miss Pot .... The physical pain is in part fear-based. Like an anxiety attack.

When my kids were small, sometimes they would be fearful of ordinary objects, like shadows in their closet... stuff like that.

So, I would tell them stories. Funny stories that poked fun at the scary "whatever" and allowed the child to feel superior and in control over the "whatever". The child could control the outcome in the funny stories, and that control diminished the fear-factor.
It usually worked.

So, give your inner child permission to take charge of these types of situations using your imagination and your wicked sense of humor.

Here is a totally unrelated event ....

This AM as I drove out of my neighborhood, I saw a neighbor's lawn COMPLETELY COVERED with pink plastic lawn flamingos!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> Is THIS the new version of getting your house toilet-papered? I used to LOVE waking up with our entire house covered with TP ... the kid's friends had done during our sleep. This would make me want to go decorate some one elses house!!!

TODAY ... I am in the market for 100 pink plastic lawn flamingos!!!!

ebay?

Have some fun girl. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Be silly.

Pep

[ June 17, 2004, 10:17 AM: Message edited by: Pepperband ]

Hi RAP,

Not much to offer. I felt the same as you when I would see OW's car out. It created a firestorm of emotional confusion in me and I would feel physically sick. Sometimes had the urge to follow her home. Sometimes had the urge to drive in the opposite direction as far as the car and road would go.

This passes with time. I still see her out sometimes. It makes me sad now, but not confused. It's a reminder of two marriages destroyed...but only one rebuilt. I'm very remorseful and sad about that.

I often thought about moving to "get away". If the circumstances had been right, I think we might have.

Hang in there, RAP.

Low

Thank you all for your responses.

Suzet,
I have to admit it helps so much to hear from both the BS and WS that has come so far. Right now, it does not feel like I will ever stop feeling this way. That's why I appreciate ALL your stories. It helps me to move on, slithering on my belly at times <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> , but moving on all the same.

Pepperband,
Your input is so wise. I know you are right, but my sense of humor(although legitimately twisted-ask my H) feels paralyzed at times. I'm going to give it a try, and it will hopefully get easier every time.

Low Orbit,
Thank you for your input too. I am sorry for what you have gone through. i think it would be a LOT easier if I could move also, but that probably won't be an option very soon. Thanks for sharing.

Oh, and Pep,

I would love it if the pink flamingos were the new TPing. That would be great!

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> to realize all over again how easy it seems to him to go his merry way with no repurcussions.

i know I did this to myself and my own M. I have confessed and we are working through the aftermath. He is just going happily on with his own life with nothing bad to show for it. <hr /></blockquote>RAP~

I said that almost word for word one day, (while feeling sorry for myself), to my BH. Being the gracious and wise man my H is, he said, "x-om may appear to not have repercussions, but if he doesn't now, he will...someday, somehow, but it is none of our concern". My H also said, "Besides, x-om is the big loser in all this, because I get the only gift from the whole mess...OC".

So don't worry or care if x-om seems to not be having to pay. Our sins catch up with us sooner or later. Concentrate on getting yourself and your M healthy.

RAP -

I'm right here with you. I see FOW's car all the time. In the beginning I was get so angry and usually go home and LB my H for doing this to me.

Now I have a bible verse that I say in my head when I see her or her car. It helps and reminds me of the outcome I want from all of this. It doesn't take away the pain but I can tell you that right now seeing her car doesn't hurt near as bad now as it did a few months ago. I'm hoping I'll be able to say the same thing again in a few months.

Before you know it I won't even notice it or her. But it would be very hard not to notice her...considering her sheer mass of her @ss and not to mention the pitch fork she carries around.

Find some kind of humor to focus on. I like pep's idea!

runawaypot,

As long ago as it was for me, I remember these feelings. Seeing his car and feeling sick. Seeing him and feeling sick. Being repelled and sort of hypnotized simultaneously.

Two things helped me: working to avoid seeing him or his car (which was hard since we were in the same workplace) and examining the root of the 'sick' feeling.

I think the root of it is really, really deep childhood things. Shame. Abandonment. And so on. I agree with Pep in that regard about treating yourself as a child in these cases. Concentrate on soothing yourself, in other words.

And, about his getting off scot free, because you have feelings and you don't think he does, or whatever...trust me. They do NOT get off scot free. There is always a price to pay.

By the way, your post does not sound pitiful, at least not to someone who has been there--and left that place behind. As you also will.

RAP, you must have missed my post just recently when I saw OM sitting outside at a cafe and it was too late for me to retrace my steps. I had to walk right past him.

Luckily, I came on here and dear, dear JL sorted me out.

It's all part of it.

Jenny

Okay guys. Sorry to do this. I just can't handle it right now. I went and got a movie for the boys, came home,a nd my H was already here. I have been feeling very lonely today. here is my whole family in the other room, and I have no desire to be in there. Mainly because I can't stop crying and I don't want to be a dark cloud. My H is wonderful, as many of you know from his posts. It has been extremely draining between us the last couple of days. I go to bed discussing what he is thinking or needing to ask. It can be a number of things like he is feeling neglected and doesn't see me trying. Then I wake up and it is the first thing said to me. Anything about what we need to work on.

I know I sound horrible. I am so worn out. I really want to run away and I don't know what my da** problem is. I know I should want to be with my H, but just being in the same room is so tense right now, even when he is trying. I know he is hurt. Here I am feeling like a complete basket case, can't stop crying, and he is hurt because he feels neglected. We are not doing any good for each other right now.

Not to mention that God really showed me , very personally, how my will needs to be broken in counseling. I never really saw this. This dumb A is bringing up so much more in me than I knew was there.

Sorry to vent. Feel so alone, and I don't want to go seek out the OM. Can't ask H to comfort me. i think he hurts too much.

The worst part is I went out today with my youngest child to get the movie, saw the vehicle, and attempted to follow him. Not to see him. Truly. Just to see what he is up to. I am so angry, sad, confused. I probably spent 30 minutes going where he might be, knowing I am just punishing myself. How pitiful! I thought I was doing better than that. I don't really want him,a nd I don't feel anything at home right now. I don't want it to stay this way. I am sorry, I just feel so hopeless tonight.

Okay. It was good to get off my chest. Now I am reading it , and YUCK! Will pick myself up and try to do something to get my mind off it. Have lots to do around here tonight anyway! Blessings.

runawaypot,

i'm too tired myself to say to much to ya but i hear you. i'm sorry you are having a hard time right now too. what is up with that? me, you, kas...

in my case, i think i am the one talking about it too much...

i don't know the answers, all i know is we have to keep trying, there really is no other way.

try to relax, try to go veg out on the couch and watch the movie with the family.

Thanks FL. I have been following your thread, and I think it is good for you to talk it out. You seem like a smart girl, and I admire all you are giving to your family.

[ July 28, 2004, 01:09 AM: Message edited by: Broken Vessell ]

Dear RAP

I meant to post earlier but I guess I have been doing a bit of running away inside as well.

I can feel in some way the same things you do when you want to reach out to your H and at the same time feel you cannot because you have hurt him. Without MB I think I would go mad.

I feel lost at times wanting to do so much to repair the hurt but knowing I cannot. I can only help and show my H that I will not hurt him again and that will take a long time if he decides to stay. He will be home tomorrow for a few days don't know if he will want to tell me he wants a D or if he wants to work on the M. He has of course huge trust issues with me and it must be difficult for him to set that aside.

But I know I am hurting so much too just as I see you are, just because we are the FWW does not mean we do not know what we have done or the hurt we have created, we know all of that and that we cannot fully understand the depth of our H pain try as we might.

The closest I can get to is imaging him with another women and I know it would kill me. Maybe I deserve that, but another blow to our M is not going to help.

Anyway the mix of so many seemingly crossed feelings just seems to leave me in a limbo at times not knowing what I should say or do. Perhaps it is part of the recovery process, I don't know.

I can see you have a confusion of feelings as well and so I want to let you know that you are not alone if you want to talk.
I hope you can find your way back and help heal your H.

God bless.

[ July 28, 2004, 01:10 AM: Message edited by: Broken Vessell ]

Broken Vessell,

I am so glad you are back <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> ! I can "hear" the pain in your posts. It can be so hard to express. So much shame that we can feel the way we do, but feel that way just the same. We can help each other. I am listening, like you, to as much as I can handle on MB.

Crazedlove,

Thank you for your post. It meant so much too. NC is so new. I have so much "unfinished business" the way it ended. And yet, I probably don't want my questions answered. Think I already know. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Feel torn like crazy inside. Know it will start to get better, but will husband wait? I hope so.

I will pray for the weekend with your H crazedlove. I will pray he will not rush into anything, and he will give himself time to heal. That seems to be the ultimate help and advice given here. Just let time do its thing. Of course while we seek God to heal us so we do not ever do this again. Blessings on both your families this weekend.

Broken Vessell,

I am sorry the weekend is harder. I hope you can fill it with something that would make you happy. Something that would make you feel special. The way God does see you. Thanks for listening so much! It means EVERYTHING right now.

[ July 28, 2004, 01:11 AM: Message edited by: Broken Vessell ]

Good morning ladies. It looks like you are all doing the program and feeling the feelings that are normal at this stage.

I'm sure that none of you purposely set out to get in such a big mess. To me it seems that each of you is a good woman, who got sucked into a bad situation.

Our pastor gave a sermon on "guarding your heart" last year. The premise was that most people don't seek out an affair. It usually starts as a friendship, and goes on from there. We are programmed to invest ourselves in someone that seems to care about us, and fill our needs. It goes downhill from there. Down the slippery slope.

I hope that you all will give yourselves a break. You already have suffered enough. Try to move on, love yourself, and make a nice life in the future. It makes me sad to see your pain.

[ July 28, 2004, 01:12 AM: Message edited by: Broken Vessell ]

broken vessel -

You are remorseful. That is enough. There is no sense in feeling so shamed. These things happen to people.

I am the BS, but have seen the same thing over and over. And I truly believe that any of us BS's, given the right circumstances, could end up being the WS.

At my church, the pastor who ministered to the young married couples had an A, and had to quit. Everyone was dumbfounded. He is a truly good man, but just slipped.

It can happen to anyone, I don't care how strong they think they are spiritually. It happened and it is over. Please don't beat yourself up.

By the way, the Lord wants you to repent (turn the other way), but he does not want His child to live in shame.

[ July 28, 2004, 01:13 AM: Message edited by: Broken Vessell ]

Well if you are a believer, you have to have faith that you are forgiven.

I had the same issues as you do. I had an abortion which was very much against my beliefs. I was in an abusive relationship, and had a chance to get away from it, taking a job as a pipefitter. I decided to have the abortion, mostly to save my two boys from the situation.

It took me years to forgive myself. I really never could do it. I avoided church, and felt terrible.

But that is not the right path. The Lord is coming beside us, and knocking at the door to our heart. Please let Him in, as I have done.

[ July 28, 2004, 01:15 AM: Message edited by: Broken Vessell ]

Good night, and sweet dreams. Please realize that you need to accept God's grace.

Rap Hi there, FWW here, nice to meet you, lousy circumstances, but we are here let's learn from it. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

<blockquote>quote:<hr />This dumb A is bringing up so much more in me than I knew was there.
<hr /></blockquote>AMEN!!!!

I can tell you, I could have wrote your post, the pain of withdrawal is no fun, fog is no fun. I'm a few months ahead of you, and every day gets better.

I know the pain seems it will never go away, just keeping fighting your urge, stay away from OM, if you don't it will just set you back right to DDAY.

Stay strong, don't follow the light. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Ky-4

[ July 29, 2004, 03:07 PM: Message edited by: Broken Vessell ]

Hey BV and RAP -

Well you aren't alone with the withdrawals. Just when I thought I was pretty much over them WHAMMO!!! Today has been rough, very rough. I am still maintaining no contact but ARRRRGGGGHHH... I don't know, for some reason it's getting to me.

I am trying to focus on hubby and God, but it's not helping much. I wish there was a magic pill to make it all go away. I mean I am sure there are some out there, but they are probably illegal. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Oh well, tomorrow is another day!

Dear kyellow4,

I don't want you to feel what I feel, but it does help to know it gets better. I like your comment about not following the light. I had many temptations and "good" reasons to break NC today. Nothing except my own excuses. Did not do it. I am actually surprised! Part of me knows the extra pain will flood back, and I just don't want it.

I think the real temptation of breaking NC is the expectation of the "quick fix." We remember the positives instead of all the negatives(although there are MANY). At least sometimes I do.

If I did break NC, I realized today he would have me right "under his thumb" again. I am coming out of the fog enough to know that God has a better plan for me than that. Thank you to all (if I forget) for sharing. I REALLY cannot express in any words how it gets me through every moment at times. You truly are the "angels" I have spoken about before! Thanks.

Chackler,

I am so sorry. I have been right there with you this weekend. I think it is just par for the course, and we have to wait it out. I know that is so hard, but please know we are hanging right in there with you. The sermon today was how God wants us to find the hidden treasure in ourselves and others. He wants us to see ourselves and others with hopeful expectation of what we can be. Like He sees us. I think we need to start looking for that hidden treasure that God has given us to be for ourselves and our families. This is not the end! The mistake, for me, is to try to "fix" it all right now. OUr emotions just won't cooperate fully till we get to a certain point.

Broken Vessell,

YOu sound like you have a strong faith. I love to hear it. But, oh, I hear the same self-condemnation that I fall into so easily. I have slowly started to learn that self-condemnation does a heck of alot more damage in holding us back in growing with God, than many other things. I am tired and rambling. Be blessed. You are forgiven. Don't give the thoughts of sadness, loss, or anything else about the OM too much weight. I am learning to be honest with God. If the feelings are there, well tell Him. It doesn't mean we act on them, but He already knows. They are just fickle feelings. I know because mine are extremely fickle.

Good night to you all.

Thanks for the encouragement!

The scripture God has once again quickened to my Spirit...maybe I should listen? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Psalm 131

My heart is not proud, O Lord,

my eyes are not haughty;

I do not concern myself with great matters

or things too wonderful for me.

But I have stilled and quieted my soul;

like a weaned child is my soul within me(ceased from fretting).

O Israel, put your hope in the Lord

both now and forevermore.

crazedlove,

Can you let us know how it is going with your H? Talk to ya soon!

RAP- good for you for staying strong and keeping NC. Easier said than done. I know as well.

Your last post has inspired me. Thank you. I need to find my way back to God. I need to forgive myself and turn to him for my life after the A.

It is very hard to come face to face with God, when you feel you have done so wrong. Better I face him now, than later. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Thank you truly for your inspirational post.

KY

Girls (and everyone else who has popped in)

It's not often everyone "in our situation" gets together on one post so it's a good opportunity to put my 2c worth in.

My A lasted 18 months, it was with HS b/f, I thought it was an exit A.

My point is that all the odds were against my H and I ever repairing our M. I was horrified to read in "Not Just Friends" the other day that my sort of A has the most chance of carrying on and the least chance of M recovery. That scared and shocked me and I'm pleased I didn't read that just after the A. With the mindset I had at that time I probably would have seen that as justification for the A. As it is, when the A ended I knew nothing about MB or what to do to make my M work, I just knew that I was going to make it work and I was going to "fall back in love" with my H.

OK, now I'll get to my point. I thought I was going to die when the A ended. I got through each day just by putting one foot in front of the other and surviving the day.

As time went on I could see glimmers of hope and happiness and the pain started to lift. I've told my recovery story on here so many times I think I'm getting boring <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> ) but I NEVER, NEVER thought I would reach this stage of loving my H and having only fleeting thoughts of OM.

I don't deny that there are triggers and when they hit, they hit REALLY hard but that gut- wrenching, I'll never get it over it, pain has gone.

I hope this helps you.

Stick with it girls, you are all doing so well in your own way. I think your H's are lucky that you're doing so much towards your M's.

Jenny

[ June 20, 2004, 10:53 PM: Message edited by: KiwiJ ]

Thanks Kiwi for the encouragement!!!

Wow, I believe we have us a little club going! The FWW's club of America and New Zealand! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I like the sound of that Chack.

What's the acronym? TFWWOANZ.

Perhaps not <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Jenny

That's a lot of letter's isn't it?

Hmmm, I'll get to thinking on that one and let you know what I come up with...It's bedtime!!!

Best part of the day - bedtime, I love sleep!!!

Have a great day Kiwi and a great night everyone else!!!

Okay, my H is a goofball.

This is his suggestion for the name of our group...

Other Woman's Inspirational Team, Husbands Unselfishly Remaining True & Supportive

or....

OW IT HURTS

LOL,

RAP <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

RAP

That has got to be the name. Your H is lovely.

Jenny

[ July 28, 2004, 01:22 AM: Message edited by: Broken Vessell ]

My H is very twisted but what a great sense of humor, huh?

The OW part of the acronym is because, like he says, most WS were involved with a MM, which makes us the OW.

Anyway, I thought it was kinda cute.

Pepperband,

If you are reading,

I think you were right on target about the "fear factor" when I see his car or him. The main emotion I do get is anxiety. Don't want to have to face him and have any feelings. Does he still have control over me? Does he know he does? Can I see him out, if I have to, and not show him any emotion? Can I get the can of raid close enough to him without him seeing it coming? Hmmm...good imagery coming... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I haven't digested it all yet, but you are so smart. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Take a break, but don't leave permanently. Please...

Thanks for all your posts BV. We will hang in this together! Thank you for your reminder to me this morning about giving my first to God. Need that too.

[ June 21, 2004, 08:25 AM: Message edited by: runawaypot ]

[ July 28, 2004, 01:23 AM: Message edited by: Broken Vessell ]

Did Pepper resign?? Where is her post on that?

Pepper can't resign! I have never spoken with her but her insight is brilliant!

What's our new club name? OW IT HURTS? I like it because it says it all! I'm the OW too...

BV, I understand about wanting answers, I went through that as well. You know what though, what if you got your answers, and they weren't what you wanted to hear?

For a few weeks I wanted answers. Why me? Did you really care for me or was it all a game? Did you really mean all those things you said to me? I just gave up on all of that because in order to get those answers I would have to break No Contact. It would have been DDay all over again. I ended up making up my own answers in my head and I am fine to live with those. It would be better off than hearing the truth...

Hang in there guys, after all, we have a club name now! I'm home from work with a migraine so I'll be on more today if any of you want to talk.

God Bless!!!!
Chack

chackler,

The club name is still up for a vote. my H was just being silly.

It may be appropriate, but I am not sure I am sold. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Any ideas? Am flexible.

Thanks for your post. My questions for OM are eating at me today too. Why is that such a big deal? I think when I and BV get past that, it will be a major accomplishment. At least for me.

Want to break NC today. Have a "legitimate" reason actually. He has my training notebook with my program in it. It took a long time to get that exercise routine together,a nd I don't remember everything. He told me he was finishing it last time we talked. (I broke off A by a message on his cell phone before we had finished training.)

I know....notebook not worth it. Give it up. Ouch. Okay.

Somebody come smack me....PLEASE?

chackler,

Do you get migraines often? Is this one from anything in particular that you know of? Hope you can rest and feel well again.

Unfortunately I have headaches every day, just some days are worse than others. I have been to every doctor under the sun and nothing works. Tried accupuncture, massage therapy, chiropractic and nadda. It's cool though, like I said, some days are better than others.

[ July 28, 2004, 01:24 AM: Message edited by: Broken Vessell ]

Broken Vessell,

I just read your post.

Before I log off ( my kids could desperately use my attention today), I wanted to respond.

I don't have anything truly helpful, except I understand.

Sometimes it seems like you are speaking for me and it scares me for you.

I am going to log off now and pray for you. Really. We need God to help at times like this. Real crying out to God. I will do that to the best of my ability for you.

I have asked God for closure. I don't know what that would mean. I then told Him if He knew that He could not give me that, then His will be done. I have to pray so honestly like that every day. Ask God for what it is that I am craving to know. Then give it to Him to decide. Sounds silly, but I have had to get honest with God in all the turmoil.

Love ya,
Pam

)..

[ July 28, 2004, 01:25 AM: Message edited by: Broken Vessell ]

BV,

You asked <blockquote>quote:<hr />Why is what I want to ask him?

Also "how can you just move on as though I never existed?"

I know it will set me back to square one but will I get an answer? <hr /></blockquote>You already have the answer you just don't want to hear it. The answer is that your was NOT married to you, he has a W and a family, and that is far more important to him.

Now BV let me ask you a question your H would like to know the answer to "How can you just move on as though I never existed?" When you can give your H a good answer to that, you will know how your OM could do the same thing.

It really is that simple, it is a matter of focus and perspective. You don't really want to focus on your H and family because it reminds you of the decisions you have made, of the parts of you that you gave away. You would and do prefer to focus on your loses, and that means focusing on the OM.

It is normal, because it is less painful than facing the people that can ask you <blockquote>quote:<hr />"How can you just move on as though I never existed?"<hr /></blockquote>Of course your H has a few more painful questions to ask as well. My suggestion is to focus on answering HIS questions and I think you will find your questions will be answered as well.

Finally, in your specific case, I will offer you something to consider. I have found over the years the call to the clergy seems to come in one of two forms: It is a call to seek oneself and be closer to their maker. OR it is such a call that converts to a desire for respect and power.

However, since the latter case requires TWO separate types of people, the ones that accomplish trying to be closer to their maker, coupled with the aquistion of power and respect, what you find are people that can COMPARTMENTALIZE things to a very high degree. That means they can walk away from a bad situation WHEN it suits them. They can preach on Sunday and bask in the respect and power at the same time.

It is not as uncommon as you think BV. It really is not.

But, the reality is that what your OM thinks is of no importance, because NOTHING he thinks can justify what you have done, you have indeed made a very bad decision and whether he simply used you, or you used him or both, does NOT change the situation.

You are looking for an escape hatch and there is not one. Well, actually there is one, but interestingly it is through your H. He and he alone offers you the possibility of escaping what you have done. He can forgive you and by doing so, free you of the guilt and the remorse. He is the one that was wronged and yet he holds the ability to make you whole again. Yes, I know your religion will do this, and that God does forgive, but your time here will be spent poorly if you do not address your H and seek to help him, and receive his forgiveness.

It is the way out of this mess, the OM is not. What he thinks is of no consequence to your life and the damage you have done. It is time to face that. If you do, you will be surprised.

I realize that I am not in your situation, but please think about this abit. Who deserves the answers, who deserves a chance with you, who is hanging in there despite the pain? Your OM is NOT your security blanket and never will be no matter what he could or would give you for answers.

Please think about this.

God Bless,

JL

[ July 28, 2004, 01:26 AM: Message edited by: Broken Vessell ]

BV, I have nothing to add but "please don't contact him."

You will achieve absolutely nothing but more pain.

Time for the FWW mantra. "OM is not your concern."

I know you don't believe me but it really does get better. I can feel your wavering from here. What often used to stop me when I was on the verge of sending an e-mail or going for a walk to look for him was "What would everyone on the board think? They'd be so disappointed." It sounds funny but it's actually the truth.

And, more than that, much, much more than that. "What would my H think?" and I was not going to add any more to his hurt.

Jenny

BV,

You said a few things I wanted respond to, but first I must make a comment based on what you said about your H. He sounds a lot like KiwiJ's (Jenny's) H, and while you don't appreciate it now, he is a very special man. Please think about this.

Now you said <blockquote>quote:<hr />You have 'insight' into this situation by your comment. Sadly I am not the only one he has done this to. I believe I was just 'one' of others from the past.<hr /></blockquote>BV have you ever heard the saying <blockquote>quote:<hr />Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. <hr /></blockquote>A minister, a pyschological counselor, a physician have a basic trust built into their position that is very important but it also allows them access to people's weaknesses, fears, needs. As such, a person coming to them for guidance, help, assistance, is very very vulnerable. First, they have opened up to someone they trust, second this person is skilled at persuading people to change their perspectives, their view of the world, and their view of themselves.

They cloak themselves in the inherent trust, hence power, of their position and they can abuse it.

Not all members of these groups do this, in fact most professional organizations have very strict codes of conduct because they are aware of the power their members have to take advantage and seriously harm the people coming to them.

You say he has done this before, sadly that really makes you a person that was NOT special to him. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> You need to simply face that and no amount of talking with him will change it.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />I believe he had 'deep spiritual' problems which he never dealt with in his past and with W. He seems to have been able to 'cover up' his tracks very well though.<hr /></blockquote>Practice, practice, practice will make you good at anything. I don't doubt for a moment that he was spiritually conflicted. He was using and abusing power which directly goes against the tennants of most faiths.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />My H talks about everything with me. He also believed OM had deep spiritual problems before I ever confessed to him. There is nothing I can't talk about with my H.. He firmly believes OM was a 'preditor' and 'pre-meditated' his approach to me whilst I worked for him.<hr /></blockquote>Very clearly I agree with your H on this matter. What I find most impressive is that your H talks to you about everything. You may have NOT be special to your OM, but you clearly are special to your H. How does it feel to know you are special? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> It should feel very good, and you should sit back and enjoy and bask in that feeling your H has provided.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />My H encourages me to talk about every 'minute' detail of how I feel to him so he can help me in my recovery and withdrawal. There was never any doubt or question in his mind that he wouldn't stand by me in this.
<hr /></blockquote>BV, do you have ANY idea how you have been blessed? Any idea at all? I realize you are in withdrawal, but BV do you have any idea how many WS's are here that would love to have what you have. How many BS's that would love to have a spouse that come back without a doubt that they will stand by their spouse?

BV, I really think you need to go to your church and pray. You should NOT hide from your church, it is after all for all of us, because we are all sinners in one form or another.

I know you don't appreciate this right now, but you now know what few do know, your H is dedicated to you and loves you deeply. You have been blessed and I think what all of this is about is your growing and realizing the gifts you have been given in your life.

BV, keep talking to him, keep coming here, and keep away from OM.

God Bless,

JL

[ June 21, 2004, 05:27 PM: Message edited by: Just Learning ]

JL, I thought BV's H sounded very much like Rob as well.

BV, listen to JL.

Jenny

[ July 28, 2004, 01:42 AM: Message edited by: Broken Vessell ]

Good morning BV and others!

I just wrote a post, but was kicked off. Argh.

will try to make it short?

I wanted to comment on your cult analogy. Hope it is not too detailed.

When my xOM first made his physical move, I turned him down. I even tried to tell him there were plenty of other people he could go to that would be willing. Could he please leave me alone?

He gave me a bunch of reasons why he didn't want them. He wanted me. BLAH, BLAH, BLAH.

Then when I left he said, "Maybe you will rethink your decision about us." He was not used to being turned down, I think.

I kept training with him and I was already emotionally attatched. I know, I know. The second time he tried, it was similar. I kept telling him why it was wrong, etc. He just would smile and act like I was being silly.

I finally gave in. The first time I allowed myself to get a little physical, then said no. No need to give gory details, but I hated feeling like he was disappointed with me. Yuck. I followed through.

After the first three times, he did not have to pursue me anymore. I pursued him. How gross is that? I actually don't get it. Anyway, your cult remark made me think of this. Yuck, yuck.

JL,

My H has not been reading lately. He has decided to take a break. But we did read your posts to BV and FL last night.

You are truthful and to the point. It was strange. I told my H how my brain agreed with you, but I was having a hard time really believing some of what you said. I could have written something similar(not eloquently) before the A. It scared me. My reaction. It doesn't mean I have not taken to heart what you wrote. I just can't believe that it is not so clear to me as it would have been before.

Thank you for your honesty and lack of glossing over the facts.

Pam

[ June 22, 2004, 10:02 AM: Message edited by: runawaypot ]

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by chackler:
 Unfortunately I have headaches every day, just some days are worse than others. I have been to every doctor under the sun and nothing works. Tried accupuncture, massage therapy, chiropractic and nadda. It's cool though, like I said, some days are better than others. <hr /></blockquote>This site has a specialist list by zip code.

educational site for headaches

Take care.

Pep

Give me P, give me an E, give me a P,

give me a.....well you get it.

Love you Pepperband!

Pam

[ June 22, 2004, 10:20 AM: Message edited by: runawaypot ]

Glad to see everyone is feeling good today. Stick with the MB program, and things will get better and better.

Originally posted by runawaypot:

"Love you Pepperband"

I'm a married woman ! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

[ June 22, 2004, 10:28 AM: Message edited by: Pepperband ]

OK Pep you and RAP behave yourselves. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

BV,

First, before I answer you post, let me offer some advice that actually might be useful. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> Write your post in Word, or WordPerfect, or Notebook, anything on your computer. When it is finished, cut and paste into the response. That way you never lose the post AND even things such as spelling can be fixed.

You will note that I do not follow my own advice and that is evident by the spelling errors and missing verbs in my "deathless" prose. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> I just type fast and hope for the best.

BV, it is clear your H has helped you a great deal. It is clear he sees the situation pretty clearly, and yes you have responsibility for your actions. However, you must recognize your vulnerability in the hands of a pro and you were in the hands of a pro. You had little chance to avoid this, unless you had done one thing. You had been "radically honest" with your H and you two had used the POJA. If you had done this your H could have saved you.

The lesson from your adventure is that you two are a team, and if you two work together, trust one another, and love one another, you can protect one another from these types of things. It really is that simple. Everyone is weakened at some point and that is where the strength of the spouse comes in. I once read a quote from someone that had been married a long time. They were asked how they did it, and the answer was: "We never fell out of love at the same time."

Interesting comment isn't it? But think about your wedding vows. Those vows specifically recognize that marriages go through many things, sickness and health, richer or poorer, for better or worse. I like many probably did NOT understand why those vows really existed. They are saying it is known that life and marriage have cycles and we vow to deal with them and continue to love our spouse.

BV, there is something you need to really stop and think about. You are married to a man that has stood by you through all of this. You are married to a man that is in need of your help. He is being strong for you, but he is hurt. He needs your forgiveness, your love, and your help.

You can continue to think about OM and what might have been (what might have been is that you ended up with him and he would have cheated on you just as he has done his W many times.) Or you can help someone in a fair amount of pain. Someone who needs YOU. You are not the victim here, your marriage is, and to face on your marriage, your H is the victim. Work on helping him, and I beleive you will find that your thoughts of OM will fade, your appreciation of your H will grow, and your love for one another will grow.

It is the way these things work BV. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Consider doing this. Your guilt serves no purpose, the A is over. Your remorse should be embraced as a way to motivate you to help your H and rebuild your marriage.

Think about this carefully and I think you will see your way out of this.

God Bless,

JL

JL,

Quick question.

You wrote about the ability for some to compartmentalize and walk away from a bad situation when it suits them.

Do men, in general, have this ability?

Is it more so with these people that know the art of manipulation?

I have seen this compartmentalization up close, and I am jealous of it. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Pam

RAP,

The short answer is yes it is more often seen in men. Actually, most men have seem to have a greater ability to do this than women do. I cannot say if it is natural or societies training of men. It is a huge advantage in many things, but it does lead to what women complain about men most often, "they hide their feelings." <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

However, anyone can have the ability, but the truely hard hearted (male or female) can and often do a lot of damage to people with their ability to focus on what THEY want with no apparent concern for the damage they do other people. Want an example?

Look at the people that ran ENRON, or WORLDCOM. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

But, I do think that men have a greater ability to do this, but I cannot quote you a study that proves my thoughts. I beleive it is in the training (men don't cry, men don't show emotion, men don't show weakness, men don't...) Now one asks why would people raise their male children like that and why would society allow it?

Well, the answer is much more complex in my mind. Men expect to compete all of their lives, for jobs, promotions, physically, for women, etc. Hence if you have a male child you want them to have the best chance of survival. Let's taking the crying thing. When you cry you are blinded, when you are blinded you are in MORTAL danger, hence men learn not to cry or even admit they are hurt. IF an opponent knows you are hurt, they WILL attack that weak point. A person would be a fool not to, if winning matters at all, and it often does.

So when you are trained this way, you learn to compartmentalize your thoughts.

Finally, I think men learn to compartmentalize much better than women because of the stronger sex drive. Studes have claimed that men think of sex every 10 seconds. You have no idea how distracting that can be, so if we are to get anything accomplished we learn to compartmentalize these thoughts.

Now you don't have to believe a word I have said, but these thoughts are the basis for my believing that men are typically better at compartmentalizing. I have met some women in my life that every bit as good as any man at this, but women tend to be more "integrated" hence feelings often more strongly influence decisions.

So I don't know if I helped but those are my thoughts.

God Bless,

JL

JL,

Thank you. That does make sense. I covet that ability, and although, I cannot do it now, I would love to learn how to in some small way.(run on sentence..I can hear my English teacher now)

I have 3 wonderful sons. I did not grow up with my brother or dad in the home. Mostly around women. I adore the fun nature of these boys, but have had to look a lot to my H in how to raise them. I am fortunate that they have a very involved dad. I see every day how different they are from females, and I love it.

Don't get me wrong, I just don't know how I would help a daughter right now when my own emotions tend to get the best of me.

Thanks again for your response.

Blessings,
Pam

RAP,

I must tell you this story. All of my children 2 B's and a G played and play sports. I coached them all in basketball at one time or another. One year I coached a bunch of 7th grade boys (son included) in a league. We had to travel to the practice facility. I would load up the van with 6 boys, and then ride in silence to the gym. Oh! there may be a belch, a grunt, perhaps a laugh, but basically silence.

I then coached my daughter at the same age and would load up the van with 6 girls. I would have a headache by the time I got to the gym. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> There were 8 conversations going on amongst 6 girls, and it was bedlem.

One day I realized something, the information transfer with the boys was about the same as it was with the girls. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> The girls talked constantly, and sort of responded to one another, but there was not thought or processing going on. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Further, coaching girls is much different than boys and part of this is the compartmentalization you are interested in. The boys may not or do not like each other, but when the whistle blows they play to win. When it is over, they go back to fighting each other after school. They can separate their dislike from one another to accomplish something important and do that.

The girls are so different, if they don't get along socially, then when the whistle blows they will NOT throw the ball to a girl they don't like, and the flat don't care if they lose. It is really so different.

My older two played and are playing college sports now, and the same holds true. My son the oldest played college football,and winning superceded any personal animosity. On my D's college basketball team, the social issues still dominate whether they will play together or not. It is so weird.

Again I think it goes back to women having their feelings integrated into their thought processes while the men do not. Hence men don't talk about feelings, and will only discuss them in dire situations. This board being an example where men do talk about their feelings, but it is also anonomous.

Enjoy your sons, they will drive you crazy with inability or unwillingness to share their thoughts especially as they get older. How was school? "Fine". How did the exam go? "fine" How was the wreck on the highway? "fine" How was practice? "fine" How was your date? "fine"

It can and will drive you nuts. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

If you had a D, you know ALL of the school gossip. You would know who likes who, how dates went, how classes are going, how she did on her tests, heck you will know than you want to know. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Must go.

JL

JL, can only stay on a minute today and don't want to take this too far off topic but I just sat here and laughed and laughed.

BTW, you might not think the girls were processing the information but I bet you (I know) that they could tell you word for word what everyone said.

I used to say to son "where are you going?" answer "out."

I'd say to daughter "where are you going?" answer "well, we're all going to see such and such and I'll be wearing such and such and so and so'll be wearing such and such and then we're going to wherever and I hope so and so'll be there. He's really cool and then............

Too funny.

BTW I thought the spelling mistakes and missing verbs were old age. Oh well. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Jenny

[ July 28, 2004, 01:43 AM: Message edited by: Broken Vessell ]

Originally posted by Broken Vessell:
"I am sorry and ashamed for what I have done."

Yes, we know. That's why you are going to get better. You are starting to get it... it takes time and there will be setbacks. Just breathe and have faith, and you'll be fine.

These are difficult lessons you are learning. Pain is a pretty impressive teacher, isn't it?

When you get stuck, look inside yourself and try to discover what part of yourself needs a boost. Remember, your H can assist you , but YOU do all the heavy lifting on your personal recovery. The marital recovery is more of a 50/50 deal.

Pep

So ladies - anyone have a recovery plan? I know you are all remorseful. That is okay. But have you thought about how you as an individual, and also as a part of a marriage, are going to recover?

It is not okay to just beat yourself up. That will do nothing.

[ July 28, 2004, 01:28 AM: Message edited by: Broken Vessell ]

Hi all, I'm cracking up, I just read through most of the thread and found this quite comical.

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> Finally, I think men learn to compartmentalize much better than women because of the stronger sex drive. Studes have claimed that men think of sex every 10 seconds. You have no idea how distracting that can be, so if we are to get anything accomplished we learn to compartmentalize these thoughts.
<hr /></blockquote>JL, are you asking us to feel sorry for men because they think of sex every 10 seconds. You poor, poor men. How do you get anything done??? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Recovery plan, we my H and I absolutely have one. We have made so many changes. He especially, he spends so much more time with me, we do so many more activities, he talks to me about nothing, all the time!!!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> I'm in IC. We are reading M books. It is all good.

I'm one of the lucky ladies whom somebody else was talking about, sorry can't remember who.

I told my H about A and he immediately took charge and protected what was his. Within a couple weeks he had completely forgiven me. He has been my rock. He has made it known he is going no where, we will make it.

This man is not only walking beside me through this disaster I have created for us, but he is carrying me proudly on his shoulders screaming, I LOVE THIS WOMAN!!!!!

He amazes me, his strength, and his unconditional love, I am the luckiest woman in the world!!!!!!!

KY

KY,

And are you whispering in his ear: "I love this man"
OR are you telling everyone around how much you love this man and how proud you are of him. I would bet he needs a little public recognition for what you think of him.

KY, I will say there are worse things to be distracted with...work comes to mind. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> But, it is a reason men do compartmentalize.

Finally, KY chocolate is NOT a bandaide, it is an additions. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Don't you find it interesting that you never saw this in your H before, or if you saw it it did not register? It seems Harley was on to something when he pointed out that often it is not that someone doesn't love their spouse, but they don't show it in a way that is recognized.

BV: I look forward to seeing your plan.

God Bless,

JL

Hi all!

Sorry I haven’t been around much. My work gets very upset when I am on the internet long. Then I get home in the evenings and by the time I am done with dinner, talking to hubby, and taking care of the dogs it’s time for bed.

I haven’t checked out that headache site yet but I did bookmark it and I am sending the link home to check it out. My headache actually got better later in the morning but I took the rest of the day off just because I felt so hung over from the pain. Blech!!!!

I have been struggling with withdrawals the past three days and I think I have finally figured out the triggers, the biggy being that his birthday is this Saturday. I want to send him a card or call but I won’t. I WON’T I WON’T I WON’T!!! Arrr, I feel like I need to be smacked with a 2x4, regardless of my headaches!!!

I was doing so good these past few weeks but now, I feel as if I am failing. I feel as if I am failing myself, my husband, my marriage.

How long does it take for a person to come out of the fog? I still have a tough time admitting to myself that the OM manipulated me. He was just like RAP’s OM, flattery over a period of time to wear me down. I hate to think it was all a joke to him; that he didn’t care about me. Maybe it’s better that I think that way though, it might help getting over him.

JL I think mentioned a plan. Hubby and I do not have a plan though I am in counseling and we are in marriage counseling. Do you have any suggestions? I must discuss this with the hubby, he’s a very “plan oriented” kind of guy. Very analytical, very data driven, very goal focused.

BV and RAP, I’m glad you are in the same boat as me, it gives me comfort and hope. We three along with Kiwi, KY, and others here on the board are truly blessed to have wonderful husbands.

As Kiwi said, it’s time I say the FWW mantra, “OM is none of my concern.”

Deep breath… Ugh, I started smoking again so the deep breath hurts! I must quit but first, I must get over withdrawals.

BV, I think you mentioned how your husband asks for all the details when you talk to him about your withdrawals. How do you do that? I can’t tell my husband details because I am so afraid of breaking his heart. I mean I tell him I’m dealing with withdrawals but I don’t really tell him about what is going on in my brain. I feel as if I would be taking a knife and stabbing him in the back if I went into detail.

You are right on Pepper, pain is a good teacher. Too good.

JL, Believer, Pepper: You three have been very kind on this thread, very thought provoking and it has helped me and I am sure plenty of others out there. Thank you and please keep those 2x4’s in hand, just in case I fail… I don’t think I will, then again, I never thought in my wildest dreams I would have an affair.

God bless you all…

Hey, did we ever decide on a club name? We should have a club house too!!! I vote that it be in New Zealand so that we can travel there!!! I want to see where the Lord of the Rings was filmed.

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> KY, I will say there are worse things to be distracted with...work comes to mind. <hr /></blockquote>Spoken like a true man JL. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

My H says now, that he always loved me, he just wasn't good at showing it. I always felt love from him, he just LB often.

I do LOVE THIS MAN, I LOVE HIM, I LOVE HIM, I LOVE HIM.

Can I be apart of the club, like Treasure, I'm really good with math. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

KY

[ July 28, 2004, 01:30 AM: Message edited by: Broken Vessell ]

CW, I hope you don't mind me putting this here again because for me it was the start of the whole turnaround to my thinking.

This is from Cwmac's thread and from the book he read called "Tempted Woman."

Read this, ladies, and see if it rings any bells with you.

It was the ONE thing that made me realise how "un-unique" my A was.

BTW, CW, if you're reading - you see - you did help me. Just hope this thread doesn't go off on the tangent the original one did. LOL

"From the chapter on the Other Man:

- OM is something close to the opposite of your H.

- Married women usually have affairs with married men because in the beginning they are classified as "safe." "He's married so we can be friends and he won't hit on me."

- The relationship usually develops from a friendship. It develops slowly.

- OM knows how to give compliments

- He makes you feel as though you are sharing something important during your time spent together

- May offer emotional support if marriage troubles are discussed

- OM is good at creating a sense of fun, playfulness, or just an upbeat attitude that may be missing at home.

- He listens w/ empathy & understanding. He's a good communicator. You feel truly heard.

- He encourages you in your goals.

- He is persistent.

- If sex is involved it is usually does not come for three to six months into the relationship.

- For women the emotional bond must come first. They must feel that they love the OM.

What the OM wants:

- They want the A to stay w/in bounds

- They thrive on the diversion, the excitement of the illicit, forbidden sex. the variety. His W may not like to try "new" things.

- Some get relief from home. May be having M issues. May have a W that ignores him for kids, work, etc.

- Able to reveal themselves emotionally.

- Doesn't want the R to get serious!!

- He may say "I love you" but he still isn't committing to anything

- Some men regard an A as an addition to marriage not as possible replacement

- Most men let the married women know about the restrictions of the R. "I'd never divorce my wife because of the kids." That is the number 1 excuse the OM uses

- The woman's emotional investment flatters the OM but causes discomfort

One interesting piece of info. Married women are unlikely to end the undiscovered A. It's usually the OM. That is except for the FWW who stumble into the MB threads!!

Why men react with so much fury;

- a husband feels dishonored

- humiliated in the eyes of "society." Even today we are conditioned to think that a married man is more likely to have an A.

- less likely to be suspicious therefore causes more shock. Because of our conditioning wives tend to watch husbands for signs. Not likely the other way around. Our egos tell us," she'd never cheat on me. I provide for her. I tell her I love her. etc"

- they are frightened. Worried over the future. Don't feel needed.

- Male competition in sex is acute. Has been for eons.

- Emasculated that OM may be better in bed or may have a superior sex organ. You women say that size doesn't matter well even if your telling the truth from your perspective it doesn't matter because size matters to men!"

Jenny

[ July 28, 2004, 01:31 AM: Message edited by: Broken Vessell ]

BV, I've just posted above you - we were posting at the same time. See if what I've written helps in any way.

Jenny

[ July 28, 2004, 01:34 AM: Message edited by: Broken Vessell ]

BV,

I'll address you but this is for all of you ladies.

First, a plan should include your H. A true recovery plan should be designed WITH your H so that both of you can execute it, and help one another, and be accountable to one another. That way parts of it like NC are easier, because your spouse can help you.

Issues for reestablishing physical intimacy should be discussed and designed to both meet BS's needs and WS's needs. Sometimes this is a step process, for example WS may not feel intimate, or BS has so many images that he/she cannot really function. A way to deal with the images is to talk about them with the spouse.

Someone mentioned I think it was you BV that you occasionly wish you had not told, but look at all you would have missed. You gave your H an OPPORTUNITY to show you how much he does love you, how you have underestimated his strength and devotion. He took that opportunity and did something with it, something good and powerful.

If you don't talk to your spouses, if you don't make them part of the recovery plan, then you deny them an OPPORTUNITY to shine, and rebuild their self-esteem, and you miss the OPPORTUNITY to see what you failed to see earlier, your spouses love you.

So any plan should NOT be just YOUR plan, it should be OUR plan. Does that make sense. The plan may include and probably should include counseling with a MC or IC. With the exception of BV it probably ought to include a member of the clergy, but someone both are comfortable with.

There will still be misunderstanding, and yes you are still on the rollercoaster, but it will get better.

Finally, tell your H's about your feelings for OM, talk about those feelings and what you are getting out of them, discuss ways your H can help, perhaps just a hug, or holding you, or just listening to you. It will sometimes hurt them, but LADIES your H's are willing to go through pain in hopes that in someway, on someday, you will finally realize who they are and how much they loved you and cared.

I realize that BV and some others really don't understand that yet, and when you do, issues show as initimacy will go away.

I once told Jenny (KiwiJ) that she had some more breakthroughs she need to go through, all of you have many left to get through. You have made some significant ones but there are more. Have patience with yourselves, this takes time, it takes help, and it takes love.

The one thing you all have in common is that you have a spouse that loves you dearly, who has heard things that hurt them to the core, and yet they have seized the OPPORTUNITY to show you what is in their hearts.

I think Jenny can tell you that even as much as a month ago she didnot appreciate her H as much as she does now.

So make your plans, work on your plans, execute your plands WITH your H's, but have patience, have a good heart, and give this time. You all will get there.

God Bless,

JL

Right on the money JL. Remember my bridge and the pylons were going in. Well, the structure is complete now. Traffic is going across.

I feel guilty now. I made a rude remark about your age further up. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Jenny

[ June 24, 2004, 01:07 AM: Message edited by: KiwiJ ]

Jenny,

Don't worry about it. I am looking forward to reaching 60,just about one year from now. It will represent many milestones in my life and my family. I am looking forward to them. I talk about my age, but frankly it is NOT something I feel bad about.

For one thing I have been the oldest living male in my family since my late 40's. That is scary.

But, more importantly, with age comes my children growing up, moving into their own lives, starting their families, etc. All things I really look forward to. My youngest is only 17 and oldest is just 24. I was a slow learner. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I told you, you would be a huge asset to this site and you have proven me right. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> I think your H should be proud of you, and surely you do have an H to be proud of.

God Bless,

JL

I have read all 6 pages now-
kiwi suggested on my thread
to jump over here-she was right-
I felt so alone-now I know you
are all going thru what I have
been battling myself last few
days. My thread was re: trust &
BS-I confessed to my H that I tried
to call OM-knowing he would not
pick up-but called anyway. It hurt
him deeply I know-but withdrawal
really sucks right now. NC since 5-7,
my A was so typical-nothing special
or unique about it. The 1 thing I
am grateful for though is that we
live several states away-that makes
seeing him impossible. If I need to
focus on something small that would
be it. I tell myself we were friends
before we were lovers, and I wish I
could go back to the "just friends"
part-that is what I miss the most-
when I acheive something or have a
funny story-it is OM I want to share
it with-because I did for so many
months. It was an addiction-I am
needing my fix by talking to him,
I am so thankful to be here-to know
that I too am a good woman that was
vulnerable & took the wrong path-
thanks ladies for such amazing
insight to feeling empty & lonely,
and not feeling guilty about it-
it just is the process. I too am so
blessed to have an amazing H. he loves
me unconditionally-Thank you God.
hope today is better than yesterday...
pal

PAL, We all go through that point, but I am well over it, when something little happens, I now want to tell my H.

You will get there, continue NC. Don't call him, call Kiwi, here is her #, just kidding. Well, don't call him still, not just kidding about that part. Oh, you know.....

This is a good place where I am at, I call it Marriage, and you have a personal invitation to join me. The weather is great, NO FOG, and the company is even better, your own spouse. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

You can do it, we all can, withdrawal - schmall, it just requires more chocolate than the normal crisis. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

KY

[ July 29, 2004, 03:12 PM: Message edited by: Broken Vessell ]

Hi all. I have been catching up on all these great posts! Wow! A lot of great stuff to digest here.

BV,
As always, love to hear your thoughts. You are really working on your issues, and I hope you are able to get back into church in such a way that it brings joy and not sadness. Hang in there, I am with you too!

Chackler,

I have been struggling with withdrawals the past three days and I think I have finally figured out the triggers, the biggy being that his birthday is this Saturday. I want to send him a card or call but I won’t. I WON’T I WON’T I WON’T!!! Arrr, I feel like I need to be smacked with a 2x4, regardless of my headaches!!!

I was doing so good these past few weeks but now, I feel as if I am failing. I feel as if I am failing myself, my husband, my marriage.

I can almost say ditto to your whole post. Especially the triggers and withdrawal part. I was doing okay, but the past day or so has been very rough. Even though we are sticking together and admitting our feelings, somehow I feel like an alien that needs to hide so I am not found out to be as grotesque as I feel. Shame over feelings and desire for OM. Shame that I don’t feel that way for H right now. (He is not reading my posts unless I ask him so we can both express what we need to. I don’t want to hurt him.)

I have got to tell you all how funny it has been. We all talk about triggers and going back to Dday. Well, like I have said before(and some of you have to experience every day) I see OM almost on a daily basis. Fortunately, not in person. He lives near me, and kids activities etc. don’t help.

I told my H that it has almost been comical how often I see his truck now. It’s not like we are in a little bitty town. I was at the pool with my boys and friends when I glance up at the street. Literally, glance. There he goes. Then about an hour or so later, I glance up again. Literally, glance. For real! There he goes. (His truck is very distinctive.)

Okay. Then we have a late dinner. I spend maybe 5 to 10 minutes washing dishes at my kitchen window. I glance up. There he goes. Three times in one day, and not trying to see him. My H just started to laugh. It made me crazy. I don’t like how it feels. I get ANGRY. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

JL I think mentioned a plan. Hubby and I do not have a plan though I am in counseling and we are in marriage counseling. Do you have any suggestions? I must discuss this with the hubby, he’s a very “plan oriented” kind of guy. Very analytical, very data driven and goal-focused.

We still need to get our Hs together to analyze some data. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

We definitely need much more time in MC. I also need to get into IC. I need it desperately.

BV, I think you mentioned how your husband asks for all the details when you talk to him about your withdrawals. How do you do that? I can’t tell my husband details because I am so afraid of breaking his heart. I mean I tell him I’m dealing with withdrawals but I don’t really tell him about what is going on in my brain. I feel as if I would be taking a knife and stabbing him in the back if I went into detail.

It’s funny. My best friend in the world, the one I would love to listen to me, is the one I betrayed the worst. How could I possibly share my feelings or thoughts about OM with him? He is a wonderful man. Excellent in so many ways. But I don’t think he could really tolerate that right now. It would hurt too much. And for some reason, I am so disgusted with myself and my feelings for OM, I don’t even feel I can share them here. Not because of you all. You are wonderful. But because they make no sense, and I already know that! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

KY,

Your plan sounds like it is working great! Your H is very blessed, and you obviously are! Glad to see hope for the future. Thank you for all your posts. Keep doing it girl…I also need lots of 2x4s as chackler likes to say!

JL,

You have said so much since I last posted. Thanks for your insights.

Finally, I think men learn to compartmentalize much better than women because of the stronger sex drive. Studes have claimed that men think of sex every 10 seconds. You have no idea how distracting that can be, so if we are to get anything accomplished we learn to compartmentalize these thoughts.

Priceless. Also, your comments on boys and girls are so true. Made me crack up. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> I do not have any girls, but I remember getting in so much trouble because we were giggling so much and making too much noise! Mom could not concentrate to drive!

Kiwi J,

Ouch, ouch, ouch. Your list about the OM was almost word for word. So true. I am going to show the list to my H. I am not making excuses. He just still doesn’t understand how I could have done such a thing. Thanks for the post.

Peaceandlove,

The more the merrier. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Now that we have JL to keep us from pouting too much <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> , we can all vent and still make progress! Just kidding. That comment was directed at me more than anyone else! Oh, and Pepperband can give great wake up calls and wisdom. Give me a P, give me an E, give me a P….

Well, I have something else to say but am afraid to say it. My xOM is very gifted at compartmentalizing. Not to get into the gory details, but I broke things off (halfheartedly) 3 times before I really did it. We were still training together then. I had the smarts to stop that this last time.

I am ashamed to admit he knew I was a Christian. That gets me the most. What a great representative for God I was! Ugh. Each time I would get so tormented that I did this, he would back off. Really. He would go back to training me, and not attempt to be physical again. Then I would just go “to heck with this” and go for him again. Sorry to be so ugly and honest. He did not resist of course. However, poor guy, the third time he did say, “ You need to make your mind up if we are doing this or not.” My H says I must have confused the he** out of him. I know I did. When he was showing slight guilt for how I was feeling (maybe an act, don’t know), he would then say, “I think you are having trouble with this because of your faith”. Again, what a great witness I was.

Anyway, the real break was made in early June. Have not seen him in person again. Even if he still wanted the sex, I don’t think he would want the emotional confusion that came with me again.

This is the hard part. Just a confession. I do not think OM wants me back that way. He did cross all professional boundaries as my trainer to get what he wanted, but he does like to believe he cares more about his professional “duty.”

Okay, I found three phone messages on my cell. Fortunately, I had not heard them. They had been there for a few days. I know he is calling to “close the door” on the training in a way he can feel good about himself with. (I ended training abruptly and he was putting together a notebook with my program etc.) I know this is what he was calling about. He doesn’t want to be involved again, doubtful at least.

But that doesn’t mean it doesn’t mess me up all over again. I don’t know how to handle this. I almost feel like he pities me because I am not strong enough to handle having an A. My brain KNOWS God’s opinion and my H’s opinion are the only ones that matter, but my heart still very much feels like he might be right. I don’t think I need to have an A to be strong. But I still feel like a wimp when I think about it. I am looking to get IC because I believe my self-esteem has affected myself and my marriage for years. I am also reading some great books by Joyce Meyer on self-worth. Getting scriptures past your brain to your heart. She is my hero.  My H NEEDS a whole wife. Wish I had dealt with this stuff years ago!

Sorry such a long post. Open to opinions and 2x4s.

Thank you for letting me vent! Whew!

Blessings,
Pam

BV,

I like your plan. I am going to work on mine to I have real concrete goals to shoot for. Thanks for the inspiration. I admire what you are doing.

Kiwi J,

I am going to get that book from Cwmac's thread "Tempted Woman." Also a couple others. Thanks.

JL,

I am going to get with my H and try to make a joint plan for our M. I have been avoiding this kind of emotional interaction with him lately. We kind of wore each other out a week ago with a lot of talking, digging, crying, and anger. We might be ready now. Really need help with the physical. It was a problem before for a long time. I don't like that I was so easily attracted to OM and not my H. The MC says it has a lot to do with a woman shutting down under stress, lack of security or whatever. Of course I only saw the OM for short periods of time and did not have to live with him.

Thanks for all your great logical advice. Now I need to follow it. Will let you know what we come up with as a plan.

Pam

my urge to call OM is
always lurking in my
mind. why? am I still
addicted? do I need more
friends? I take classes
online-I think I am home
too much-too much time
to think.......
I am NOT calling...ever.
I am just feeling weak.
I feel like I need some
space from home-I always
get this way when I feel
at odds. I used to work &
be gone so much-my routine
has changed-for the better,
but it is different being
home more. I need to get
out with friends I think.
thanks for listening to me
whine again....
I wish it was wine...too
early-later though! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

peaceandlove,

As you can see in my posts right before BVs last one, I am struggling with some of the same issues you are. We can help you and be an ear when you need one.

About being home, I understand. I have dealt with that. Also, depression can cause some people to become reclusive. It has for me at times. It would do a lot of good to get out and get busy.

I have been extremely thankful the last couple of days. We have gone to the pool with friends frequently. It gives me time to visit and my kids are enjoying themselves. Before then, it has usually been me and my thoughts...on purpose.

Go have some fun. Take care of yourself.

Pam

[ July 29, 2004, 03:14 PM: Message edited by: Broken Vessell ]

pam & kas
whew! it is so good to
finally find other WW
to share with. I was at
times feeling the heat
from BS. I feel so alone.
my friend talked to me on
phone this am. I felt so
guilty sharing with her-
her daughter just had a
baby boy & she is ecstatic.
I said that to her-but she
still wants to here me
tell her my thoughts. many
years ago she struggled
with A. She tells me OM
still crosses her mind.
so I guess from that I am
convinced it is something
that is never forgotten-
just dealt with. I dont
drink much-but some days I
feel like I need something
more than my meds to calm
me down. I dont think I am
depressed-since I am on AD?! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />
We are going to my parents
for dinner tonite-need to
get out of house-
chat soon ladies...
pal

PAL,

There is something you need to understand. Harley pushes for NC EVER, because he knows from experience the memories don't go away, the feelings fade, but they can be rekindled. That is why NC is so important not just for now but forever.

What does this mean? It means that your thoughts and those of the other ladies here are NORMAL. You cannot fight them, you should not fight them, what you need to do is develop your life with your spouse to that you naturally spend more and more time thinking about the spouse and family and not OM.

It is a evolutionary process and it takes time and patience. It is often recommended that the WS talk to the BS about the feelings. All of the WS say "I don't want to hurt BS any more." But actually short term you hurt them more but the thoughts go away faster, so long term you hurt them less.

Why do they go away? Well, as you verbalize your thoughts to the reality that is your spouse, you demystify them, you bring the fantasy that was the A into the real world, and it begins to lose its hold on you. Your spouse can respond, ask questions, support you and you will begin to see your reality rather than the fantasy that is the A.

So don't fight it directly, fight it by developing your life, learning to enjoy it and the people in it. But, will you forget, no. Will there always be something there, sadly,the answer is probably so, but perhaps not. Don't worry about it.

Hope this helps.

God Bless,

JL

RAP...this question may have already been asked on your thread. I tried to read it all but it is getting long!! Did you and OM have sex in his car?

Lisa 103

I don't mind answering your question, but am curious why you ask. It is hard to admit what I did and where. I don't think I have ever talked about where the times together took place. What do ya need to know? I could use all the input I can get!Forgive me if it is hard for me to admit how much I let myself get used.

Lisa 103

Also, I saw some of your old posts. You said your OM is a predator and had 4 As besides you and his wife still did not know about any of them. Sounds exactly the same. My xOM has made this a lifestyle, I believe. And he is skilled at it.

If you are willing (don't want to drag you through anything you are done with) I would love to talk more to you about this. It just sounds so similar. And I am sure you know how I feel.

So, in answer to your first question about sex in his car, I was with him in many different places(ashamedly so) but don't think I said much about it here.

Pam

Dinner was good at parents.
laughed with sisters and
had a relaxed time, no thoughts
of OM! Yeah!
JL-I know I will never forget
what happened-it is part of my
past-& I accept that. I tell
myself it is what made me change
for the better. I am now back to
school full time to get my degree
in journalism. I do some freelance
work for local newspaper-I am doing
what I love. It took going thru all
the crap to get me to this point.
I have a bday in a month-I told
husband I will not be sad to see 43
go-it was an emotional year from hell.
I will actually be glad to turn 44
& move forward. I am so thankful
to be here with others that understand
& the best part-I feel normal for
feeling the way I do at times. I
live in a small town-under a microscope-
no one knows anything-not my family.
just a couple of very close friends.
I couldnt take the judgement. I am
just feeling the comfort of others-
and hope to help any WW that is struggling.
pal

PAL, I'm so pleased you're finding this thread and these lovely ladies helpful.

Lisa, what an intriguing questing you asked Pam. You're not thinking of me are you. Remember I confessed to where, when and how on that ghastly, wish I could forget it, thread of cwmac's.

Jenny

Edited to add: When the post took me back I saw the title again. Duh. Sometimes I'm a bit slow. Is that why you are asking?

[ June 24, 2004, 11:47 PM: Message edited by: KiwiJ ]

Did someone say my name? My ears were burning? Oh just KiwiJ admitting to her past again? lol

cwmac

Kiwi,
I noticed a bit of paraphrasing in my Tempted Women post. I'll contact my copyright lawyer.

Ahh, never mind. I'm just glad it helped you. Didn't realize it was your "turning point."

cwmac

RAP...I was skimming over your thread and wanted to ask you a question that may have already been asked here. Did you and xOM have sex in his car?

ok RAP...please excuse thatlast post...My computer froze up on me last night when I sent this and I didn't think that it went...I'm not as crazy as I seem, or maybe I am <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> Maybe a few more cups of coffee will do the trick! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

RAP..I would love to talk to you about it because our cases are so similar. The reason that I asked you about the car is that I too had sex with xOM in many places including both of our cars. His car is a painful trigger because of the reason among others. Thankfully I won't be having to see it much longer here at work every day!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> Unfortunately, I will be working right down the street from where I am now so there will still be the chance of seeing him or his car still.

RAP...I do wish that I had the nerve to tell his W about his indescretions but I never could muster up enough courage to do it. I don't want to hurt her and I guess I'm a coward!!

kiwiJ. I totally understand RAP's hesitation for not wanting to disclose personal details such as that. I too have tried to forget these things and how I did allow him to use me. But I can tell RAP and I know that you can too, this too will pass!!

Lisa, I must step in here, after reading so many post from BS and I know you have as well, you see the pain they suffer, you know the pain that is caused by an A, yet you said,

I do wish that I had the nerve to tell his W about his indescretions but I never could muster up enough courage to do it. I don't want to hurt her and I guess I'm a coward!!

He has had many A, correct, do you think this is his last one???? Has he been held accountable for any of his actions, regarding his M and his W???

Do you think she will feel protected by you, or betrayed by you for not telling her??? It is her life the poor woman, give her the option to decide to continue with this PIG!!!

Are you really sparing her feelings??? Or just hiding her H flaws and enabling him to cont. his lousy behavior. Don't protect this man. Loose the loyality.

Was that a 2x4???? Oooh, I hope it wasn't to harsh.
KY
P.S.
Gosh, I hate my serious side....

jelly...it was a 2 x 4 but not harsh. You are right I know but I can't do it.

Okay, just thought I would get it out there. Poor lady, M to a serial cheater and doesn't even know. Or chooses not to know.

I'm sorry he got you tangled in his messy little web.

I burnt the 2x4, it will never be used again.
KY

no need to burn the 2 x 4 jelly. You are absolutely right and I wish that I had the courage to tell her, she deserves better.

Too late done, I was craving smores, and needed the fire.....

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Jelly

I get hungry every time I read your posts <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

Lisa did you say fudge??? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> I'm sorry I thought I heard fudge.

I better quit, I've all ready been accused - rightly so, of turning another thread ADD style - it isn't ADD, it is pure sugar buzz. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Gosh, I'm in such a good place and I never felt I would be ever again.

It is so hard coming thought that dark tunnel of withdrawal and self condemnation. I feel I have finally reached the end of that tunnel, and the view here is beautiful.

Follow the light ladies, come find me, I have fudge. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

KY

Okay KY4,

No more talk about chocolate. Cannot resist...

Also, I want to come through the tunnel! Tell me it CAN be done...again! Also, I have not told his W. I feel just like Lisa103. My kids might be in their kids class next year, same neighborhood, etc. It is not as much the shame, as I truly believe she might believe whatever he told her. Smooth, smooth. It is also selfish b/c he might smear me really well to get her to believe it. I don't know what I will do.

still deciding...but so chicken!

Lisa 103,
Please forgive me if I seem skittish about details. It is not as much about the shame as I am paranoid about the whole thing. People knowing, me looking as stupid as I was, etc.

We had sex in his truck one time. The first time.
He wanted to have it somewhere even worse(to me). When he started to kiss me, etc, I panicked. I kept saying, "I can't do this." And I would pull away. He kept saying, "Yes you can." Back and forth. Then it got worse. Suggestions or better yet directions on what I could do if I were not willing to have intercourse.(You have got to remember. I was with only one man, my H, until then. Was actually a little scared by it all-dumb,dumb.) I finally told him I could not and needed to go home. He walked me back to his truck where he was going to drive me back to mine. I felt so guilty during the walk back. Felt like a tease. Did not want him to be angry.(Can you believe it?) I told him I felt like he was angry. And he said he was just dissappointed. He thought we had come to an agreement that we both wanted this.
Got in his truck. Felt like cr**. I then offered to follow through. I still feel sick about that first time. How could I see him in a good light after that? He of course kept calling me saying he was worried how I was after how it went. Blah, blah, blah. I bought it. I feel more sick over my stupidity than almost anything. I feel horrible over hurting my H, but right now I have no self-esteem. I still hate how he must think of me. Yuck.

Anyway, enough venting. I have more to say, but I don't know if I can do it now. Need help. Need to get ready for 2x4s. I am also really struggling with feelings of hate.

I know that is dangerous. God does not want me to do that. I know it will only hurt me. How do I forgive this man? I asked him so many times to not pursue me b/c I knew I could not handle it right then. I know that sounds weak. I was weak. I am not proud of myself. I know I still had the ability to walk away. I was hoping for honor from a man that did not want to show any. Has made me take a look at H. I think I expected honor from OM because my H is so much that way. Thought it must be pretty natural for most men.

NOT TRUE!. I know my H is an exception, and of course all the BS who are males here. You all are wonderful too. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Pam

Ladies,

I thought I might interject a thought about telling the OM's W. It seems to be more the norm that the BS tells the other BS. I suspect it can be more easily done and accepted. Further, if you encourage your H to do this, it is often interpretted as YOU really letting go of this by burning a bridge.

It is something you might want to discuss with your spouse.

On one of the last posts, it was mentioned that they felt all men were like her H, a man of honor.

I was thinking of these posts last night, and of the struggle you all are having letting go of OM in your mind. I had an interesting thought for you to consider, when you consider the merits of OM or even an OW in the case of males.

If you were married to OM, you would NEVER have a chance to have an affair with your now H. On the other hand, while married to your H, you could and did have a chance to have an affair with the OM. Doesn't that sort of tell you something? The asymmetry of it, I thought was interesting and very telling.

So as you deal with your OM, just remember he was "easy" to get, your H would NOT have been. I am not saying that they would NEVER have an affair, I am saying that their predilections are to stay away from other peoples marriages and to hang in even when hurt.

Just a thought, something for you all to consider.

Must go, I have a lot of work to do today.

God Bless,

JL

Thank you JL.

As usual, your post is very helpful. My H and I have discussed him telling the OMS W. It would be the best option. Still chicken. Need to address it again.

Thanks for the words of wisdom concerning honor and our Hs. You are right.

Pam

oh RAP, you situation is so similar to mine that it's eerie. These men must have gone to the same school for players!!! xOM wanted me to do "special" things for him too. How's this for a really personal disclosure, my H had been the only sexual relationship for me too and I had never had OS. xOM actually was my teacher. That makes me sicker than I can tell you!!!!!!!!!

Lisa103,

Joint scream of disgust, "AAAAAAHHHHHH!" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Blech.

Again, special congrats on getting that new job and away from the past. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

[ July 28, 2004, 01:45 AM: Message edited by: Broken Vessell ]

BV and RAP...would you two please read my most recent post to my thread about new job and tell me what you think? Thanks so much.

Ladies,
Once again good ol" JL has beaten me to the punch (both figuratively and literally) LOL

He said...

<blockquote>quote:<hr />I thought I might interject a thought about telling the OM's W. It seems to be more the norm that the BS tells the other BS. I suspect it can be more easily done and accepted. Further, if you encourage your H to do this, it is often interpretted as YOU really letting go of this by burning a bridge.

It is something you might want to discuss with your spouse. <hr /></blockquote>JL is right. All of you should approach your Hs and let them know that you are willing to have them tell the OM's W. This will tremendously help them re-establish trust in you. It will also have the added benefit of showing them that you are no longer concerned about the OM's well being. IOW, you're no longer trying to protect him. It'll also show that you've brought an unselfish attitude back to the marriage.

For those of you still struggling with the NC concept. Telling the OM's W is an additional insurance policy that NC won't be breached by him (or you). Believe me the OM's W will be watching him like the proverbial hawk.

Telling OM's W will help you , your H, your M, the OM's W and quite possibly their M, as well (not that you should care about that). The only person it harms is the OM and that's only in the short run (unless he is a multiple A predator)

So what's it going to be.........?

cwmac

Hi ladies, sounds like you are all making progress. Just like quitting smoking or heroin. One day at a time.

I want proof that JL is not a woman. He is too insightful to be a man. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

My H told the OM's wife by phone. I wrote quite a long post on it back in April when it happened.

It was the best thing he could have done. I was really wavering and I knew there was a very good chance OM would contact me again either "by accident" or by e-mail or I would contact him "by accident". I would never have e-mailed or called him but there are lots of opportunities to meet by accident as he lives in the same suburb as us.

It shut the door. It really did.

Jenny

[ July 28, 2004, 01:46 AM: Message edited by: Broken Vessell ]

Hello ladies - Anyone here this weekend? I'm recruiting new members.

New memebers for what?

Hi. New members for your thread. Did you ever get a name for it?

You know, I don't think we ever did come up with a name. RAP I think had OW IT HURTS but I can't remember what it means.

I'm doing great today thank goodness. It's been a tough week but I am discovering little triggers that set me off and I am trying to fight them little by little.

I have a question for you all. My A took place at work, the entire time. We would either e-mail each other back and forth or we would meet for lunch. I am thinking of changing jobs. Every day I go into work it's a reminder of what happened. I'm wondering if a new job would be helpful, kind of like a fresh start?

Thoughts, opinions, 2x4's????

I'm trying to get Bosstenor to post here. She is having a hard time right now, since OM is in the same neighborhood, and her kids are friend with his.

I think a new job would be just the right thing. It is scarey to quit and look for a new one. I got a new job 2 years ago, after more than 10 years with the same job. I was really hesitant, but now I'm so glad, cuz I love it.

Start looking around, and see what is available. It is so important to love your job.

believer,

Hi. I have been following your thread and want you to know I am sorry. Your posts are always so supportive. You are a strong lady. It may not mean much coming from me, but please don't put yourself back in a situation where you are taken advantage of. I'm sure you have come too far!

Thank you soooooo much for all your posts!

By the way, the OWITHURTS came from the twisted mind of my H. I wasn't going to post it, but he said, "Oh, c'mon. It's funny."

It stands for:

Other Woman's Idea Trust, Husband's Unselfishly Remaining True & Supportive

LOL <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I told him we might need to rethink b/c we have to leave it open to all of us out there, even some who might be recovering on their own.

Anyway, any suggestions?

chackler,

Good to hear from you. Hope all is well. It has been rough here (you can see on onlywords LB deposits thread). A little emabarrassing. Might need 2x4s. No, Iknow I will constantly need them. Ask my H about my hard head. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

But really,

sounds like you are hanging in there. chackler,
it sounds like a great idea to get a new job. If it is something you can really afford to change, I would go for it. The less triggers the better. For me, the guilt is sometimes overwhelming. Since you are done with the A, why face it every day if you don't have to? Just my humble thougts.

Pam

I like that name! "Seeing his car is knocking me down" sounds so depressing". Although I know it is fairly close to how you do feel. But I think the other name is much more optimistic sounding.

believer,

I could really sympathize with being in the same neighborhood as OM. Not only does he come by my house every day to get to his, his kids will likely be in the same classes as mine next year. My H and I are already trying to work out the field trip thing. My xOM tends to go on some field trips b/c he works at night. That seems to mean I will have to avoid my own children's field trips? It just doesn't seem right. Maybe my H can go. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Pam

Let's start a new thread with a new title. I am tired of the "seeing his car is knocking me down" too. Somebody make up something upbeat!

Pam

[ July 28, 2004, 01:48 AM: Message edited by: Broken Vessell ]

Yep, Kas, we know how bad you were. We've all been there. One night I said to H it would be better if I just ended it all after all the pain I'd caused and because I was so hurt myself. He was very upset and I felt selfish and miserable for upsetting him like that. But, I don't feel like that any more. Life is too good and too precious.

I feel much better today. I had a good talk with H and part of what's bugging me is that I'm going a bit stir crazy at home. I don't have little children any more and I find being at home boring and unfulfilling. I know I'll be better when I start work again.

Pam, you can keep this thread going but just change the title of it by editing the title. I must say I'd be glad to see the title go. LOL

Jenny

[ June 26, 2004, 01:32 PM: Message edited by: KiwiJ ]

BV,

I am sorry for your struggles concerning church. I would say go to a new church, but that is probably not what any of you want to do. You do need to go and feel God's love. I don't know what to say. You were no worse than any of us here!!! Did you hear me? You were no worse than any of us here.

I know it was done with a clergyman an inside the church. But it all boils down to the same thing. Please forgive yourself. Someone told me recently that it is almost like telling God it doesn't matter what HE says when we decide to not accept His forgiveness. I know you already know this. You are a mature Christian. You just need those around you who love you to tell you it is okay to accept His forgiveness and MOVE ON <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> I say this to also help myself. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

I understand the weekend thing too. It's strange. I keep wondering why I am so melancholy today. Silly really. I spent most of my time with OM when saw him on Saturdays. Mostly in the gym. Most of the time it was not physical. Yeah, that happened too. But I laughed. I played. It was fun. I am home so much with the kids. He was fun. I miss that today.

I know I can have that same thing back with my H. I used to have it. We were really silly. It is going to take a WHILE to get that back. So in the meantime, I feel like I am mourning today. Silly. I miss his friendship now. Just needed to admit it. I liked him more as a friend. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> Really, I did. The PA was very intense, but I would have gladly stopped it with friendship(EA maybe?) Please don't think I am okaying anything. Just admitting a hard time today.

Pam

KiwiJ,

I have kids at home and you can still get stir crazy. I don't think it's a good idea to be alone with your thougts too long. Probably just for me. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Anyway, I hope you find a job you can truly enjoy. It will probably be exciting to just start looking and figure out what you want to do.

Also, I am ready to rename thread. Any suggestions? Would like input. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Funny, can't make a simple decision like naming a thread. Says a lot right now!

Pam

Pam, I've got a new job which I start next week. I just left my work after 7 years and have had 2 months off. OM was a client at my old office and every single person there knew I'd had an A with him. Someone heard me talking to a friend and told the rest of the office.

I remember being at home with little children. Mine are now 23 and 26. And yes, I remember going stir crazy then as well. LOL My adult kids are wonderful people and it has been so great watching them grow into fine adults. I'll just pretend their teenage years never happened. LOL

Jenny

Oh, sorry to have missed your background. Thanks for the information.

Congrats on the job. I am so sorry about the embarrassment you must have endured at your old office. We definitely have to climb out of our own pits, don't we? No criticism, just have to see the results in my life everyday too.

I love my kids. I have never regretted being a "mama." Just went a little too gung ho on being home. Never did much else for myself. Got lost. I am coming out of it now. I just am having to get the pendulum balanced:) so as not to neglect them in my own stupor right now!

I was a teacher's assistant last year at my boys' school. Loved it, but spent the day with 18 4 year olds. After being a mama for so long, don't think that is the job for me right now. they just needed the help then, so I filled in.

I was going back to work in the fall. After talking with my wonderful H, we decided I needed to get in IC for a little while and focus on getting well. This will be the first year they are all in school and I could be home alone. I don't think I can be home alone that long, but I do need to focus on getting better. I have ignored things that are now having huge effects on my marriage. Mostly how I see myself, etc.

We could really use the money. I am so surprised by H. Isn't he sweet?

Pam

Yes, Pam, he is sweet...and clever. I've been reading his posts and you have got one heck of a good man there.

If you can sort this all out, and I know you will, you will be one formidable couple. I'm sure you already were and I know you'll see it again soon.

Jenny

[ July 28, 2004, 01:49 AM: Message edited by: Broken Vessell ]

BV, JL once said to me I was being too hard on myself. I think you are too.

You're doing everything you can to mend this. Another thing JL always says is "recovery is not for wimps" and that's for real.

Some wives (not anyone on the board but wives of people on the board) are lost in a complete fog, are doing nothing whatsoever to mend anything, they are causing nothing but pain.

When they wake up they are going to fall VERY hard. And they will wake up.

Jenny

Hi all,

BV, I understand your hesitation on going to church. How about visiting the messageboard that I moderate - www.thelampstand.com. It's a great Christian board and you might get the fellowship you need for now, until you are ready to step back into a church. There is another one called Rapture Ready, www.rr-bb.com. Lots of great forums.

You also need to forgive yourself. I have finally forgiven myself and it's such a weight off my shoulders. I still feel the guilt and shame but it was a mistake, I am learning from it so it won't happen again, and I am moving on.

Maybe we should call our thread Moving Forward because that's what we are all doing? Sounds kind of positive don't ya think?

Forgive yourself BV, and RAP if you haven't done so yet. God has forgiven you and if you think about it, if God has forgiven you, who are you to hold that weight on yourself - you are not better than Him, you are not the judge, He is and you have been forgiven through the blood of His son. When God sees you he sees "forgiven", always remember that.

I am glad you are feeling better Kiwi. I have learned it's easy not to tell your husband what's bothering you and I have to re-train myself. I struggle with that but I am finding that it helps me out when I open up.

You have been such a help to all of us Jenny, thank you so much for your encouragement, intelligence and 2x4's when needed!!!!

[ July 28, 2004, 01:51 AM: Message edited by: Broken Vessell ]

Thank you chackler for the suggestion on the renaming of the thread. I think that is it! I don't know what else to say because am kind of in a lull and not feeling the strongest. Ugh.

Thank you.

BV,

As usual, what you say hits home. I want to be the wise woman that builds her house, but my flesh wants to take the easy route.

There is no "easy route." It is a lie of the enemy. A mean horrible lie that tricks us to draw us in, then kicks us when we are down.

I want to obey without hesitation and eventually reap the rewards of following God out of a pure heart. I am not at the "without hesitation" part, but I know there is only one way to go...forward.

Thanks all. love ya,
Pam

[ July 28, 2004, 01:52 AM: Message edited by: Broken Vessell ]

[ July 29, 2004, 03:20 PM: Message edited by: Broken Vessell ]

hey gals-
I almost missed this renamed
thread! but I am here! I went
shopping yesterday by myself.
I took my time & just enjoyed
looking. I was shopping for a
dress for son Sept wedding. &
I found a beautiful suit-whew!
1 less thing to worry about. I
have felt better than last few
days previous this week- I am
trying to stay focused on
MOVING FORWARD! yeah-we need to
think of inspirational things to
share-like.....
"no one is useless in the world
who lightens the burdens of
another"-charles dickens
pal

Thanks BV for your post. It is late Saturday here and I am so glad to have made it through the day. I am ashamed to say I have missed the OM terribly today. I know. It makes no sense. Before he became a total louse, we spent a few months just enjoying training and laughing. That was already wrong in that it was a close friendship with a male w/o H around. I know. Just enjoyed doing something (exercising and losing all my extra pounds <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> ) for myself.

My H and I went to a nearby new homes area where there are all these huge dirt mounds. My three boys had a field day just throwing dirt clods at each other. Amazing what makes boys happy. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
We then went through a friends house that is in the process of building her dream home. We had a good time. Still tense b/t H and I. He is in pain. I am in pain. Sometimes it is at the same time. We still enjoyed the boys tremendously. Got dirty, etc.

Anyway, thanks BV for the encouragement about church tomorrow. I want to go, but also feel HORRIBLE that I even have a thought about OM. Feel like I will be stricken down when I walk in the door. Never was like that for me before. Always a joy to be in church. I will go and just try to give the thoughts to God and then think on Him. He knows anyway, right? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Good night all.

Pam

peaceandlove,

Good to see you are here. So, you have a son that is getting married? How exciting! I am glad your shopping is done. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Please keep posting. We have to help each other. Have a great Sunday, and I will be checking in after church.

Blessings PAL
Pam

[ July 28, 2004, 05:13 AM: Message edited by: Broken Vessell ]

Hi everyone!

I'm new to this thread...I hadn't checked it out before, but my BS told me about it. I wish I had seen it a month or more ago! I still struggle over OM...he lives within two miles and drives by OFTEN...though I can't say he's doing it in hopes of seeing me because he almost has to go by to get to his Dad's farm. Still, in the back of my mind, I wonder, and sometimes even HOPE that he wants to get a glimpse...he said as much to me after the A ended..."At least this way I get to see you sometimes." It made me mad because it sounded to me like it was enough for him to just SEE me, even from a distance. How in the world can that be enough? I for one would have a much harder time just "seeing" him. I'd rather not see him at all. But all that is beside the point. Right now I struggle with just being outside or going for walks. I'm afraid husband will think I am putting myself "out there" hoping to see him....and part of me IS doing that. But part of me wants to be able to go out and not worry about it. Why should I stay "holed up" in my house? After the A ended, I saw him several times....long story short, he told his wife that basically my being "out there" was an indication that I wanted to talk to him, which wasn't true. I know it wouldn't be the best thing for me to "run into" him right now...I am sure it would set me back a lot. I wonder if I'll ever get to the point where that won't happen.

J <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

[ July 28, 2004, 05:14 AM: Message edited by: Broken Vessell ]

KAS

Thanks for the support...yes, we ARE in this together. Wow, I can only imagine what you must be feeling since the OM is moving away soon...it probably almost feels like someone is about to die. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> I could guess what I would feel like. Just because the A was wrong, IMO, that doesn't mean feelings weren't genuine. I struggle with that a LOT...feeling guilty for caring about someone! In and of itself, I suppose that isn't wrong, but the problem was it didn't stop at that. And is it wrong to still care? I just don't know! As Christians, we are taught to love. And what good is it to love unless the other person knows, right? But that is exactly what got me into trouble. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> I honestly didn't MEAN to start something by expressing my feelings to OM, but that's where it went. So now what, am I supposed to never tell someone I care? And how do you just turn that off?
I'll be thinking about you...just imagining myself in your shoes makes me want to cry.
We'll be here.

J

good god.

I can surely understandth how hardeth it is for youth lot-uv. How chivilrousuth of you to deny-ETH this third personeth the absoluteth genuiness-ness of thou love whilst your pitiful spouses now as muchas they tryuth-ly fail miserably in meeting your most selfish of needseth---sss...and I might add.. the most impossible to fullfill( ask me later I am soo open to this question)

Have you lot ever asked yourselves.... WHAT IS IT YOU WANT

WITHDRAWL IS ONE THING....taking the piss out the of people who( incidently)love you the most is another.

NOW..lets talk about feelings.

Good morning ladies. I know the feeling that the church may fall down when you walk in the door. Amd also the feeling that everyone else deserves to be there, but you don't.

But Jesus came to heal the sick and wounded, the broken-hearted. That is what got me to forgive myself. So keep going to church, and keep trying to say "no" to the Deceiver.

I have noticed that when I am not doing what I should, Satan leaves me alone. He is only worried about me, when I am attempting to follow Jesus.

My suggestion...

*STOP* discussing OM obsessions here.

Really..... just stop. The discussions of "feelings" keeps your (collective) OM memories alive.... You are feeding the BEAST with all your "feelings".

Discuss the principles and concepts of meeting your HUSBAND'S NEEDS in order to have a happy marriage and a good life.

Start a discussion about something ELSE!

Discuss "The Prodigal Son" .... and how understanding that Bible story helps you walk through the church doors with your head held high.

Pep

[ June 27, 2004, 09:34 AM: Message edited by: Pepperband ]

Prodigal means..........

~reckless
~extravagant
~wasteful expendditure

Dear Ladies,

This is NCWalker, RAP’s husband. Sorry to be here, I am not spying on your thread. I have promised RAP to stay off it so that she would feel free to post what she needed to say and I have been respecting her wishes. She will occasionally let me read a few posts when she feels like she wants to share something. She has let me read about the last five posts, one of which was from “madmax.”

madmax,

Ben Franklin once said “If you would persuade, you must appeal to interest rather than intellect.”

You have done neither. What did you hope to accomplish with your “clever” talk? You come across as snotty and childish that these women on this thread are trying to sort out some bad feelings. I am married to one of them and also feel that her feelings for the OM are bad, but my W and the others here are women of grace and poise. Where did you learn to talk to a woman?

You are NOT helping.

Ladies,

Pepperband is right. Not sure if it is going on as I haven’t read all the posts, but constantly dwelling on thoughts of the OM is not productive. Don’t deny them, post them here because it is important to say them. I have posted bad feelings for my W and it helps to just say them. The flowers you feed will blossom. Forgiving RAP is easier by not dwelling on the thoughts of her A. It is just proper tending of the “garden of my heart.” Pull the weeds, but don’t stare at the weed pile.

Pepperband,

Thanks for looking out for my W.

NCWalker

Hi girls!

onlywords,
Glad to see you are here. Don't leave. DON'T LEAVE.

I want you to post what you need to say, and then we need to help each other with what to do next.

Pepperband is right. Although sometimes laying it all out helps me. Also, we are making steps forward. I truly believe we are.

BV,

Very good sharing on King David. He was not where he was supposed to be, was he?

madmax,

I do not blame my husband's not meeting my needs on my choice to get into an A. We have both agreed we neglected each other. He did not choose an A though. I do not think any of us on this thread are demanding all our needs be met or else! The choice for me to have an A came from everything that was lacking in me. Also the ability to be selfish. Do not lump us all into this group that says we had an A because you did not meet my needs. If you read this entire thread, you will see the WSs here tend to realize it is our fault, not someone elses. If you want to post constructively as others try to, then go for it. A post like your last one is simply offensive.

believer,

Thank you for your posts. You and Pepperband bring a lot of wisdom to us. Thank you so much.

Blessings,
Pam

[ June 27, 2004, 11:54 AM: Message edited by: runawaypot ]

Ladies -

I think pep is right - she usually is. Not that you cannot support each other in getting OVER OM.

It's like the old story of the fight between the bad dog and the good dog. Who will win? The one that you feed. In a spiritual sense, if you feed the spiritual side, it will win, if you feed the flesh, it will win.

By the way, did anyone's church fall down when they walked in the door? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Hey all,

Might I say something???

It's easy to get into a pity part, Lord knows I have done this several times. Pep and believer are right, we need to move on. We stand nothing to gain from pissing and moaning about our withdrawals. Sure it's a b**ch but so is life.

I am going to try and turn myself around and think about what caused this, improving my marriage and ensuring that this never happens again.

Ladies we have been blessed big time. GOD has forgiven us, our HUSBANDS have forgiven us. We have all made huge mistakes but it is mendable.

Turn on the Mission Impossible music, okay...

My mission is to make my marriage the best freakin marriage out there. My mission is to figure out what happened and change myself. My mission is to learn from this so I will never do this to myself or my husband again. My mission is to be the best person I can be, regardless of what has happened. My mission is to pray - pray for healing, help, and guidance. My mission is to help others who have been in this situation and be the best listener I can be and lend an occasional tidbit of information/help, anything to help others with their missions in life.

Okay, end of music...

I hope I didn't sound harsh at the top, I can have a wicked tongue when I don't watch myself. I am not upset with anyone, believe me. I just realized that I can't improve if I keep dwelling on the feelings that I have/had for the OM.

FWW mantra, "OM is not our concern anymore."

Our husbands are, our marriage is, our well being, all are our concern now.

Come on, I got my cheerleading costume on (too tight!), got my pom pom's in hand and I am ready to move forward!!!!

[ July 28, 2004, 05:16 AM: Message edited by: Broken Vessell ]

Chackler,

You are in inspiration. I can only hope I can develop as much optimism as you over time.

My H still hasn't forgiven me an is in a lot of emotional turmoil.

Although we are still sleeping in the same bed, he has chosen not to wear his wedding ring anymore and he can't tell me he loves me. I keep expressing my love for him though. I just don't know if he believes i'm sincere.

Any additional words of wisdom are greatly appreciated.

[ July 28, 2004, 05:17 AM: Message edited by: Broken Vessell ]

Hey ladies, look at my link in signature line! I am now a computer geek, thanks to ncwalker. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> I still can't believe how easy it was to do. He showed me how on line. I am so impressed!

Hang in there, everyone. Your thread is one of the most powerful on this board, and that can't be a bad thing.

I'll be back in awhile - gotta go shopping for a pocket protector, tape for my glasses and some mismatched clothes. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

BrokenVessel,
You said a mouthful...Recovering H was reading this thread when some of those "other" posts showed up and he was going to tell me not to read the response from One of them....I can't tell if that one was a direct hit to me or just a general hit to the thread. Regardless, I certainly didn't appreciate that one! So what you said was very good...thank you. Before I saw your post, I was rreally tempted to just run and never come back....because when you stop getting permission to feel what you feel, you shut down. How in the world would that help anything?

As for "obsessing" about Om and feelings...I don't think that's what we're doing. We have these feelings, we are obviously uncomfortable with them, want them to stop, feel like absolutely HORRIBLE people for feeling that way, hate to admit it, etc....

I also understand how BS would feel hurt by what we are talking about here. Here's a question I asked my BS....how does the Policy of Radical Honesty and the Policy of Protection work together? On one hand, you want to be OPEN about how you feel and what you're going though, and on the other hand you don't want to verbalize it AT ALL because you KNOW he may feel hurt by it. All I know is that when I am able to speak my mind including all the withdrawal things and my BS doesn't BASH me, he puts about a hundred deposits in my love bank! I also have found, for myself, that when I verbalize those feelings about OM (either here or to BS) that seems to take a lot of the power away from the feelings! Isn't that a GOOD thing?

Things get so confusing on this board. You have people giving advice that at times seems totally opposite....which do you listen to?

RAP RAP RAP!

Am I saying too much? I want to run from this thread. Or am I saying things out loud that others are just afraid to? By the way, I LOVED your husband's response to MadMaxx....I love the way he comes to your defense. That is so cool! I bet he earned a million LoveBank Deposits on that one!

TO MADMAXX.....You can catch a lot more flies with honey than you can with vinegar. I hear you, I understand what you're saying, but it would be a lot more effective to drop the attitude. But go ahead and vent....if I want permission to say what's on my mind, then so do you.

J

Boss -

I notice you are still in very early stages...D-day less than a month ago. Your husband needs to process this in his own time. All you can do at this point is BE THERE, and be ready and willing to answer all his questions honestly. He needs to sort it all out and try to understand what/why/how this happened....not an easy thing to do. Not easy for us WW's either! Just take a deep breath....take care of yourself, and give him time.

Glad you're here!

J

I was going to bring out the 2x4 but I wont.

We (Lisa, me and a few others) had a very similar thread going to this called "Letting go of OM."

And talking about "missing" the OP was a total no-no. I know its hard not to but seriously it really does feed the obsession. We just used to go over and over "OM is not your concern."

I'm scratching my head thinking about what we did talk about - definitely moving on and how to best meet our spouse's needs. How we could recover. How to put it behind us.

We also came in for some flack. Someone posted that we were all just "holes" for the OM to fill. That was really charming - remember that Lisa.

Keep supporting each other, it really helps, but I agree totally with Pep, Believer and Chack. "Letting GO" of the OM is really what you have to do.

If you think I don't know what you're going through - I do. I was in a very, very bad way.

And, hey baby, look at me now. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Jenny

[ June 27, 2004, 01:34 PM: Message edited by: KiwiJ ]

Kiwi,

I do agree about letting go, but being in the early stages myself, that just seems impossible now. I have a lot of emotions and I believe that the process of letting go means talking and working through those emotions. This then leads to a greater understanding of what went into the A and why it happened.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think we should obsess about it but I also think letting it out helps resolve those unwanted feelings.

Well NCWalker ,

sorry you are wrong. Madmax is right to the point. Yes nobody is denying the fact that they have grace and poise . But they are not angels. It is a tradition at MB that all the fault and blame is put on the OM/OW so that you can think that your spouses did not do anything and eveything is the OM/OWs fault. Sorry buddy. ITS NOT. ITS NOT. It takes 2 to have sex.
If they only matched their grace and poise in their actions, they would not have been here. If the OM / OW are poor souls with a lot of mental problems and are deep in an abyss, these ladies are just a foot above us. They fell into that willingly. ITS THEIR CHOICE. YOU MAY BE A LOUSY, abusive husband. The marriage might have been a farce. But still nobody peeled their panties, its their choice. So please dont come to their defence.

There will come a day in their life say a year or two , the most dreaded thing in their life would be the mirror showing their image. Been there , Done that. They have to hit their bottoms to get back to you. Its the process of undeposting the love units of the OM. These ladies have to do that.

Madmax is asking some hard questions so that they can get their so called grace and poise.

LADIES, I am a former OM who was seduced into the A. My moral conscience made me not to have sex with her and she is now with her 5 th OM.
I just want to tell onething about the thought process of a OM. I was there ,done with and recovered with the help of MB and have been here from jan 2003.

So this is you to your OM. This is how you are thought by them.

1) You mean nothing . Just like toilet paper, use , throw and dont even remember about the process of using.

2) You are a ****edited*** who is after him.

3) OM do thing with PENIS, so they know what to say to you . They are always horny with you, so their thinking process is bright when they are with you.

4) OM do not think high about you.
5) They do not trust you, they do not treasure you.
6) You are just another ****edited***

7) They will eloborate to their beer buddies whata great **** you are..

8) They might have said " I LOVE YOU " a million times and it does mean the same as ordering pizza. Order and EAT. Tell the right thing, she will unzip. Just plain basic truth.

9) You might have found that they trashed you easily. Because thats what you are to them. ***edited*** They never think about you in a loving way. They never obsess about you.

10) All those little things and compliments they gave you are just investment. They get some 1000% return on investment.

11) There can not be a better boost for these poor souls self esteem like being chased by somebodies faithful wife with poise and grace.

I can write a lot other things ladies. .....

" What do you want? "

H / OM

You have two options.

1) Get out of WD as fast as they can and stop obessing about their other men. Start into the path of recovery and start to build a life with you poor husbands.

2) Get into the A bcak , go **** their Other Men , obsess about them, train in a gym, do whatever they like with them, Divorce you, make your children fatherless and almost motherless , become a ***edited*** in the eyes of the world, keep hopping from one men to another. Lie in a bed alone when you die with regret, resentment.

But there is a poor guy you have known most your life. Whose heart is in the kitchen table which you have been chopping for some time. But that guy is still there. You know that guy no longer thinks about sex as evey male spieces do in every 10 second intervel. He thinks about you having sex with OM. ITS A VERY NICE FEELING. ITS JUST LIKE VACATIONING AT HAWAII.He enjoys that very much.

What are you ladies have done to that?

You gals are really great , i know . But can't you see that your Hs are the greatest???. You have killed something out of them permenantly. You can not erase what you did with your body . YOU ARE THE BIGGEST TRIGGER,
They are going to endure all through the rest of their lives.

What are you ladies doing to erase their pain other than rambling about the OMs???

Yes, you all have tons of issues to deal with. I know its not picnic. I was there ladies. I was worser than you.

But the first and formost thing is your Husbands. Nothing else. not even your existence.Not even GOD.not your pain, not your feelings. NOTHING NOTHING NOTHING other than HUSBANDS.

Coming over here telling how great your Hs are not what they want. They want the same intense love ,passion you gave freely to that bugging OMs.
If you are at that place to give that, then you can say that you ladies have GRACE AND POISE. If not, then atleat acknowledge thir actions. Do not LB them.

We OMs are not even worth to be in your mind for a second.

Your Husbands patience will run out one day. So wake up soon. Even if they dont run away from you, something in them for you is dying a slow death. So try to save as much as possible.

If anyone of you are offended by my ramblings, i am sorry. I just want you all to have that undying, unconditional love marriage. All the best lasses.

***edited by Justuss****
any questions or comments, contact me..

[ June 27, 2004, 04:09 PM: Message edited by: Justuss ]

KiwiJ and Pepper and others,
Let me just say this...if I were HIDING this thread from my husband, then I would say you are absolutely right. But if I hide what I'm feeling, it would be a LOT easier to "feed the beast", so to speak. In other words, if I didn't talk about how I still sometimes want to "accidentally" bump into OM, or that I miss him sometimes, then husband might get a false sense of security, thinking I'm over him. And it holds me accountable, knowing that he knows!

You know, sometimes people will say what they think you want to hear, to get themselves off the hook...I could stop talking about OM, but if I still have those thoughts, and don't tell my husband, isn't that dishonest? Meanwhile I could be plotting all sorts of things in my head, like "now that he thinks I don't have feelings for OM, I can start looking for him" or make him think we don't have to worry about that anymore.

Please don't overlook the fact that a lot of us are living in very close proximity to OM...we have to learn to live with that, and all we are trying to do is work through the feelings to come out from underneath them! It would be SOOOO much easier to concentrate on husbands without the reminder constantly bumping into us. I don't want pity, I'm not feeling sorry for myself....and I am certainly not PINING AWAY for OM! I think those of us who have to learn to live near OM will end up stronger than those who don't. Instead of running from the devil, we are learning how to beat him...with God's help.

J

Oh boy! There have been a LOT of good posts since I was last here. I do not feel nearly as eloquent as all of you, but , hey, I am here anyway!

I hope I did not offend anyone with how I responded to madmax. I guess I just didn’t want him to scare our new visitors away. Thanks BV for showing love.

Madmax,

BV’s response to you was probably more appropriate. I hope you understand that we really do appreciate input, but input with love will go a long way. I do not know your story, but I can tell you have been hurt. I am sorry. I do hope this board will help you as much as it has(and is) helping me!

Onlywords,
You said,
I also have found, for myself, that when I verbalize those feelings about OM (either here or to BS) that seems to take a lot of the power away from the feelings! Isn't that a GOOD thing?

NCWalker and I were reading your post together and we both agreed that this statement is SO true. I am torn. I agree totally with your statement. I also agree with those that say we do not need to obsess over OM. It must get easier as time goes on. I still feel very new in the NC department. In fact, I think I stated here he left cell messages a little while ago. My H knows and we are working this together.

Onlywords,

Post what you need. We will all help each other. I renamed this thread (with input from one smart cookie ) because we are going to move forward! We are with our spouses now. We are soooooo blessed to have Hs that are willing to forgive us. It is a walk. I don’t want you to run away. Like I have said before, I knew we had similar issues. Let’s stay and help each other. Look at the people here who are so willing to give input. It never ceases to amaze me. Most give from love and wanting the best for us. Don’t you dare go anywhere. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Bosstenor,

I am so sorry for the pain you are both in. I noticed Dday has been very recent. Give it time. He is in tremendous pain. I know you are too. One day at a time. Stay here and post. We want to encourage you.

Chackler,

Now I am going to have that song stuck in my head the rest of the day! Also the image of all of us getting into cheerleading outfits. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

BV,

You are beginning to amaze me. Lots of good stuff to say. Thanks.

Onlywords, onlywords, onlywords!

STAY, STAY, STAY. Dya hear me? I need ya here. Blessings to you and RH. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Pam

Dhanush,
So you were SEDUCED into the A? Hmmmm...

by the way...."I'm rubber, you're glue, everything you say bounces off of me and sticks to you!"

Sorry, I hope that doesn't offend you.

Are you getting my point?

Did that help anything?

I know it's early days for all of you.

I haven't been putting my sig line because it takes up such a lot of room but here's my story (brief).

A with old HS b/f. A lasted 18 months and I was totally, absolutely, completely obsessed with him.

A ended because he wouldn't leave his w so I had no choice but to try to make my M work. H didn't know about the A so I began withdrawal on my own. Withdrawal consisted of drinking myself into a stupor and going to bed at 8.00pm.

H found out and I was still totally in withdrawal. I said things like "if he comes back for me I'm going to him." etc etc

Went to MC which helped a great deal. She was very good and very pro marriage.

Came on to MB in February this year (can't believe its so short a time ago) and everything began to turn around for me thanks to the wonderful people here.

Believe me, I KNOW what you are going through, I know you want to be honest about your feelings. Our MC told me to be honest with H and I was and it was like turning a knife into him every time. But we are moving forward all the time.

Also, OM was a client of the company I worked for and also lives about 2 miles away from us. If I go for a walk on the route he takes to work (along the sea front) I'm pretty guaranteed I'll see him - so I don't do that anymore.

BTW the post from dhanush was the post I was referring to before. That turned up on Letting Go of OM as well.

Jenny

[ June 27, 2004, 02:25 PM: Message edited by: KiwiJ ]

Dhanush,

If that's what it's like to be "recovered" (as you stated you are), then I don't wanna go there. Fortunately for me, I don't believe you. You sound very angry and bitter. If you aren't, then why would you choose words like that? That was probably the most offensive thing I've ever read.

Oh, and here's why I don't think you are recovered. You said our husbands should come before God. I would never listen to someone who says such a thing. That one statement alone nullified everything else you said.

Well, you had your rant, and now I had mine.

Moving Forward,
J

Originally posted by onlywords:

"But if I hide what I'm feeling, it would be a LOT easier to "feed the beast", so to speak. In other words, if I didn't talk about how I still sometimes want to "accidentally" bump into OM, or that I miss him sometimes, then husband might get a false sense of security, thinking I'm over him. And it holds me accountable, knowing that he knows! "

Dear OW (that's only words ! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> )

This may be a bit too early in your process to fully understand what I am about to say ... so keep it in mind for later use...

Feelings just "are".

Don't assign meaning or importance to these feelings ....... let them flow past you, like the wind.

Just because you "feel" something doesn't make it real.

And, the best way to rid yourself of unwelcome feelings is to give that feeling ZERO importance and ZERO significance to your life.

Look at it, and then allow the feeling to pass past you without further thought.

Put the feeling behind you as soon as you recognize it.

In that way, the feeling is not "fed" by obsessing about "what does it mean that I feel this way"....

In my original post, I refered to the BEAST , and I meant evil, satan, THE BEAST thrives on these types of feelings .... which are essentially poison for your soul.

I am not effected emotionally by YOUR having these feelings and expressing them as if they have meaning and purpose .... but YOU are effected.... and it's poison. And I am asking you to stop, for your sake, not for mine.

Pep

[ June 27, 2004, 02:30 PM: Message edited by: Pepperband ]

Pepper,

Why do we have feelings?

What purpose do they serve? Is my goal to live an emotionless life?

I'm not trying to contradict you or argue...I really want to know. That's another one of my BIG questions.

" That was probably the most offensive thing I've ever read. "

I also found portions of that message very ugly and nasty, and I reported it.... and the moderators will decide if parts of that post go or stay.

Only W.... instead of responding to any post that offends you .... click the "report post" icon on the bottom.

Sheeeeeesh!

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Pep

Pepper,

Do you feel like you're babysitting?

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

I'm getting out of here for a while.

[ June 27, 2004, 02:39 PM: Message edited by: onlywords ]

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by onlywords:
 Pepper,

Why do we have feelings?

What purpose do they serve? Is my goal to live an emotionless life?

I'm not trying to contradict you or argue...I really want to know. That's another one of my BIG questions. <hr /></blockquote>I actually ADORE your question! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Our feelings make us human.

But, some feelings are harmful to us.... like people who struggle with looking at porn excessively, for example. If they allow their feelings of desire to "go there" it is likely their obsession will increase not decrease.

I am NOT saying your feelings are equivilant to porn (not at all) ... but your OM thought are harmful to you, harmful to your marriage, harmful to your family ..... and YOU have the ability, nee the duty, to dispose of unhealthy feelings before they make crap out of your life.

Don't you think you made quite a leap ... me saying you should live an "emotionless life" .... care to back down from that ???? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Pep

Pepper,

I didn't mean any offense by that...I KNOW that isn't what you said....that was MY conclusion to your statement. But then, I'm sure you didn't take offense...you weren't emotionally affected by what I said, were you?
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />
J

Nope <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I understand you better than you think i do......

Cuz I have done crappier crap than you could ever think up in your worst nightmares.

Pep

Pepper,

Now you're starting to sound like the OM...he thought he was THE biggest outlaw, done things lower than low, therefore assumed he knew what lay behind everything I did or said. That bugs me, sorry. We are not all alike, nor do we all think the same.
You seem to be a well-respected "fixture" on this board. I haven't been around very long, so I'm sorry if I seem naive to you (if I do!) Maybe someday I'll find out you are right. But long gone are the days when I passively absorb everything everyone tells me. I grew up going to church, now I haven't gone for two years because I started questioning everything that had been spoon-fed to me over the years.
I may just end up back where I started in my beliefs, but this time it won't be because someone else said I should.

That's where I'm coming from...that's where I am right now. I was just about to beg you not to take offense, but from what you've said, there is no need for me to do that.

Is there somewhere on this board I can find your "story"? I don't know much about you. I am definitely interested...

J

Ladies - Well you have posts from EVERYONE. But please don't let that get to you.

You are good women, and good women rise above.

[ July 28, 2004, 05:22 AM: Message edited by: Broken Vessell ]

OK-Im confused-
I cant tell my feelings
to my husband-it hurts
him to think I am still
suffering & having trouble
some days w/ OM thoughts-
well, I am told
he will never "completely
trust" me again anyway.
I finally find a thread of
FWW & we vent to each other
& now that is wrong-we cant
give ourselves any kind of
thought whatsoever??!! I
dont understand any of this
anymore-I feel like every
time I am getting relaxed
chatting-someone shows up &
says-NONO-you are not doing this
right-that right-Im giving up
for a while-I get tired of
all the battling & disagreeing.
I feel overwhelmed enough some
days after everything I have
been thru-fight it out among
yourselves-
put my husband before my own
existence?-I cant believe that
was said.

Ladies -

This is a safe place. Please keep posting here. You will not always make everyone here happy. Too bad.

Keep working through what you need to work through. There will always be people trying to take you down, pay no attention.

This is your thread, keep on keeping on.

Please everyone, try to ignore dhanush's post. It turned up on our thread as well and upset us.

Please, PAL, no one is saying your thoughts are wrong.

I just know how easy it is to open the floodgates of talking ABOUT the OM and not talking about the feelings surrounding this.

Remember, I AM a FWW although sometimes I think I'm beginning to sound like a BS. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Listen to Pep. I do.

Jenny

[ July 28, 2004, 05:23 AM: Message edited by: Broken Vessell ]

KiwiJ, BV, Believer, PeaceandLove,

AMEN! AMEN! AMEN! What I have just witnessed, through all of you, is incredible strength, perseverance, love, and faith. Sometimes we get thrown off track so easily...but you have just shown me that set-backs aren't failures, and failures aren't death. And you've shown me that ALL of you have what it takes to make it through recovery, with a whole lot left to spare!

You are all truly an inspiration to me! I think I'll stay after all! Throw some of that "stick-to-it-iveness" my way, won't you?

I wanna be like you when I "grow up" !!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

It's taken me to get to 50 to grow up and I still don't think I have. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

You'll get there Onlywords.

You're all such an asset here.

Jenny

[ July 28, 2004, 05:24 AM: Message edited by: Broken Vessell ]

Hi all. I just came back after exercising and my family going to the pool. The last post I really saw was from Dhanush.

It sounds like you all have had a great dialogue. I am glad you have decided to stick with us onlywords. PAL, come back here young lady. We need you... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Okay. I don't want to be the first one to start talking about struggle, but here it is.

I am not wanting OM. As I said, he has called and I received one of those calls two days ago. My H is helping with that. It has bothered me, but not made me want him back. All very confusing.

Anyway, I do feel new to this as some of you do. What is hitting me is what Dhanush said. It was not with love, but it was not without truth. I think what is really hitting me is the truth of how awfully I chose to be used. I don't know what is wrong with me. I can't stop crying, and I am feeling like complete trash.

Okay, please know I am just expressing myself. I know the truth of God's love for me in my mind, but right now I am struggling with getting it into my heart.

I just needed to share. This will pass. I am so glad you are all here. Hopefully, one day, I can be an encouragement, not just someone who has to pour it all out. Don't know what else to say.

BV and KiwiJ,

The alcohol thing is such a temptation right now. I don't want it to become a habit.

believer,

you are so kind. Thank you for all your encouragement. You and Pepper and others are appreciated. Wish I could give real hugs right now. Could really use one.

Talk to you all later. I know I will be in a better frame of mind then. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Pam

One last thought for today...(I think this is the most time I've spent on this board EVER!)
I collect quotes...and wanted to share this one with you...it seems to fit pretty well:

"Yet it is good to know about our terrible selves, not laud or criticize them, just acknowledge them. Then, out of this knowledge, we are better equipped to make a choice for beauty, kind consideration, and clear truth."

-Natanlie Goldberg, Writing Down the Bones

As I recall, Jesus neither lauded nor criticized the adulteress who was about to be stoned. He acknowledged her mistake, gave her a better choice, and sent her on her way. Funny, he never mentioned the OM!!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Til next time,

J

onlywords,

Just saw your quotes. Cute!

You're right. Not one word about the OM in that part of the Bible. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Pam

Before I log off...

onlywords, it seems I need you to help keep me from being afraid to post the struggles of my feelings for OM. I know, no obsessing, but I am going to have to talk some of this out. If I don't it just stays all jumbled up in this head of mine.

Pep,

You are right about feelings. But I will say I am not feeling like I am there yet. Maybe I can practice!

What a great group of ladies! I am so excited!

Doesn't take too much for my emotions to change radically lately. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Good night all,

Pam

OK it seems my post, has upset a few.Perhaps I could have been a little more diplomatic...however suprise suprise... diplomacy was never a strengh of mine.Especially after witnessing the end days of another marriage lost to not the affair itself but the behaviour that packed along with it in the aftermath.( common in the BS 1 to 2 yrs into recovery)

It may also come as a suprise to you all, that I am in a strong marriage, we survived adultery, and we both are enjoying a fulfilling and beautiful relationship. My post was sent with love and a great deal of sadness, because I want you all to experience what my husband and myself experience now...if you keep travelling this path of memories of the OM.and podding and poking..you just wont get there.

I can certainly empathise with you ladies,its what got me through those first funky months of recovery..I also might add I do not for one minute believe you did not feel "love" for your extra marital partners..the term I use to describe that love is ecstatic love.And it is very real for you. Ecstatic love is overwhelming,and probably a wonderful feeling to have..the trouble is with it though is that it can't sustain itself...its too intense..it caves in on itself..its one of the reasons why affairs have a very poor survial rate.

You have found in your A's a new percetion of love...just like other WW's..hense why a lot of WW's do chime those words that they never loved their spouse before or that they love you but just not in love with you. Ecstatic love by the way flourishes to such an intensity because of a number of paradoxes associated with EMA's ( hense the term used here a lot of fantasy...and it is quite fitting because you have created an atmosphere where ecstatic love can flourish)

Only, you mentioned in one of your earlier posts about how time will heal or it will take time..its actually what you do with that time, that will do the healing..it wont happen by itself...for the sake of you ,your husband and your marriage..use your time wisely.

NC...errrmm I 'm a girl.

Take care of each other and take care of YOU.

Max...ps I was known as madmax well before my husbands adultery..its been my nick name for yonks...not because I am angry or mad at WS's or the OP...its simply who I am.

Hey Max,

I thought you name kind of meant that you were from Austrailia...

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Oddly enough I am <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Well there you go! You Austrailian's and New Zealanders are straight forward people, I like it!

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Just wanted to let all of you know how much your dialogue is helping me through this difficult situation. i have been listening to what everyone is saying. I guess I haven't been sharing a lot because it is taking me a while to get to know everyone and their circumstances.

Runaway - I am with you. I need to get my feelings out too. If I don't get them out, I can't concentrate on anything else.

Madmax - I also agree with you. I hope I can eventually make something positive out of this horrible turmoil.

Oh boss - I just looked at your siggy, your d-day wasn't too long ago was it. It'll get better, honest!

Chackler

How long does it take because I feel like I'm drowning.

The first two weeks were the worst but then it started easing up a bit. It's no instant thing though unfortunately. I have my moments, every day but they aren't as intense.

Are you doing anything like counseling? Get a good counselor and if you aren't on anti-depressants I would get on those as well. Carol's mantra, "Zoloft is my friend!"

Also, when you have feelings for the OM try and focus on your hubby instead, I have found that that helps me out. Oh yah, and the occasional ciggarette. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Oh yah, read everything on this board. Another thing that helped me is I would go to some of the posts of the betrayed spouses, that would snap me out of it pretty quick. Also, listen to what people like Kiwi, Pepperband, Believer and Just Learning say, most excellent advise!

We started counseling last week and we'll be going once a week. I am also on anti-depressants. Prozac is my friend.

I know its a long road and i have no one to blame but myself. That's the hardest part is facing my own accountability. I'm probably beating myself up inside way more that anyone else could including my H.

Thanks for your advise. I have to go now but i'll let you know how i'm doing.

I wanted to talk about my self medication with alcohol.

The whole family was worried about me. Before everyone (kids included) knew about the A the kids both asked H independently what was wrong with me and how worried they were about the drinking. My mother thought I worked with a "hard drinking" crowd and that's what had pushed me into alcohol.

I still drink but I don't drink to blot anything out anymore. Just social drinking.

Boss, I know you think I'm being a bit hard on you but I hope it also gives you hope. The whole point is that I've almost forgotten how bad it was and how bad I felt. That is such a huge, wonderful thing.

Jenny

[ June 27, 2004, 10:13 PM: Message edited by: KiwiJ ]

Ladies -

Look at the number of my posts. I used this board to vent my feelings - from I love my WH, to I hate him, from wanting reconciliation to wanting divorce, then to Plan A, Plan B, Plan Me, blah, blah, blah.

That is how most of us work our feelings out. I hope you will all feel comfortable posting here. That is how you will recover. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Believer, you still look soooooo cool in the taped up glasses. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> I want me a pair.

Jenny

ok- I get too much from
the people that care to
go away-I need you all-
well not all...hmm...
my quote for bedtime is...
"life is not easy for any
of us. but what of that?
we must have perseverance
and...confidence in
ourselves!" marie curie
good night....pal

OK, time for me to way in with my 2 cents.

First to all you FWW out there, stick together as you are doing. I think that's great! Extra support will help you through this. So you can't afford to lose even one of you from this board.

I think this thread has been great except for one message. I also think it shows how things that are said can be interpreted differently by different people. As I was reading it, I did not get the opinion that these women are pining away for the OM or that they were obsessing with them. It is quite the opposite. The main thread (sorry for that pun) that binds these women together is that the OM lives so close and we -all these families- are not in a position (whether its financial, historical or whatever) to change that. So the triggers are probably much stronger to overcome.

Boss: Welcome to MarriageBuilders, a great place to be considering your circumstance. My story is in my tag line at the bottom of this message. My wife is onlywords. Her story is the 5th message down in the following link: Onlywords side of the story

Madmax: I too thought you were a man, I suppose the handle may have led me to that conclusion, but your message didn't change my thoughts in that regards either. Sorry.

And finally, the main reason I wanted to respond tonight. Runawaypot said:

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> Anyway, I do feel new to this as some of you do. What is hitting me is what Dhanush said. It was not with love, but it was not without truth. I think what is really hitting me is the truth of how awfully I chose to be used. I don't know what is wrong with me. I can't stop crying, and I am feeling like complete trash. <hr /></blockquote>When your Affair was starting, as the OM was hitting on you and making inappropriate suggestions, did you think to your self? "I choose to used by this person for sex?" Because while it was your choice to have the affair, to agree to the sex. I don't think for a minute that you thought about being used. If anything, it was that you were too weak to say no, that the OM's line's and emotional hooks had been set because of the vulnerable state you were in. You may have thought this wasn't right, or even said no, but did the OM then keep right on trying to persuade you? I could be wrong, but I don't believe I ever read in any of your posts that you were the one to lead the OM on? If I'm wrong, please correct me. And please, please stop beating yourself up over this, because you did not choose to be used.

[ July 28, 2004, 05:31 AM: Message edited by: Broken Vessell ]

Good Morning All -

BV, your story sounds so much like mine...and I felt like the biggest fool in the world because of letting myself get involved with OM and when I think about the wasted time....I don't even want to go there. It's easy to beat yourself up for being weak...I did it too, and still have those days.

RAP - As Recovering H said, you did NOT CHOOSE to be used! That may have been what was happening, may have been OM's intent ( in my case, I think it was but I may never know for sure) but you did not ask to be used.

MadMaxx - I agree that we shouldn't spend our time "obsessing" about OM...Poking and prodding, as you say. I can see how you might think that's what we are doing since all you can see is what you read on these posts. But let me assure you that is NOT all we are doing! We are ALL working towards building a better marriage and that includes other ways besides working through the issues about the OM. That is only one part of the process, and if those thoughts and feelings keep cropping up, then they need to be expressed and dealt with.

Please try not to put words in my mouth....I did not say time will heal...I did not say sit and twiddle your thumbs and wait for everything to blow over.

Here's a favorite quote of mine that may help to explain why I think it's a good idea to express your thoughts about OM, about anything:

"I have to write to discover what I am doing. I don't know so well what I think until I see what I say." -Flannery O'Connor

Once it's out there, then there's a better chance you can see it for what it really is and then do something about it.

J

One more thing....

Yesterday, as I was considering what everyone said about this thread, I realized that the only opinion about this that mattered was my husband's. He is the one who pointed me to the thread, and I gave him full permission to read it all. RAP's husband also has been following along.
Now, I feel pretty sure that if they thought we were all obsessing and talking about how much we want OM back (which we don't), then they would speak up.

Back when I was keeping it all in, Recovering H prodded me into opening up, admitting what I was feeling. No, he didn't like everything he heard, but he knew it was eating me up inside and knew that the best thing was to talk about it. He was SO right. Yesterday I came up behind OM...he was on a tractor, I was in my car. he had to pull over to let me pass. I felt NOTHING...not anger, not love...NOTHING! If I hadn't admitted to what I felt, I would have continued to "feed the flame" in my mind.

Have a great day!

J

Onlywords,

You are so right, you need to talk about your feelings and get it out. This is also why these boards are here. You as a FWSs have the same right as anyone else to express yourself and talk about your thoughts & feelings etc. As a FWW who have been where you are right now, I can tell you it’s perfectly normal for a FWS in withdrawal and early recovery to obsess about the OM from time to time. It’s all part of the process and will get better with time and patience.

You’re doing good Onlywords - hang in there and keep posting! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Blessings,
Suzet

[ June 28, 2004, 07:27 AM: Message edited by: Suzet* ]

broken vessel -

You are being so hard on yourself. It is painful to read. I hope that you will give yourself at least a tiny bit of forgiveness today.

Ladies - Today let's see if you can fill a little bit of your husbands' love banks. I have to go to work now, but will be checking back to see how well you did. Please write down things that you did for husband today.

I'm all decked out in my computer geek costume. They may not even recognize me at work. First thing, I'm going to ask for a pay raise. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Of course I will send ncwalker his cut. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Good morning!
I can read the strength
in all of you. it is with
each other that we get
stronger. the feeling of
not going thru this alone
is the most comfort for me.
I live so far away from OM
that I at least do not have
the visual reminder-but just
my memories-which are stronger
some days obviously. I woke
up this morning & said to self-
he does not deserve any of my
energy thinking about him after
the way he has treated me. I
am gaining ground-& MOVING
FORWARD-I know this will be a
good day-& I know the hard
ones are still ahead to continue
to test me-but I am so blessed
to have an amazing H & marriage,
not matter what I go thru-I know
that I am loved unconditionally
by H & God! please be open to
all stages of recovery-it is a
process....pal

Good morning from this side of the world. It was good to see all your posts this morning. Also, I am in a much better frame of mind this morning. Whew. Glad I got through that last night.

BV,

I am so sorry for your hurt right now. I don’t have to tell you how similar our OMs manipulation was. It just seemed real, and I know I wanted it to be real. The emotional was too far along for you (and me) when they really came on strong. It just gives us insight into ourselves. Sometimes a good cry is what you need. Then you feel like charging ahead again.

You are a strong woman of God. I felt that I used to be. I am going through a great book by Joyce Meyer on insecurity. Just one of her little ones. I am actually grabbing the scriptures and plan on learning them inside and out. I don’t want to stay the way I was. I don’t want to be emotionally weak and insecure enough to do that again.

I am not saying that is exactly what happened with you. I just know my own self-image has had a lot to do with it.

RH and onlywords,

Thanks for your support. RH, you are right that I was not the pursuer. After we had been physical a few times, I then did pursue because I thought I “needed” him. I was in so deep. If you look at my signature line, it finally ended in June. I did not end contact immediately when I told my husband. I kept it up behind his back. He will tell you now that he probably knows during that time when I saw him. I would come home and break down. Really nice, huh? I actually had my H comforting me when he thought it was because I was down about OM etc. I was, but still was seeing him. I am horrified at that now. My H is incredible. I do want to move on b/c he deserves much better.

Here is a section about my situation that might give you some insight into my story. He was my trainer(the goal was to lose a lot of weight and then stop, I lost the weight, but at a great expense).

He had already done and said all the right things we hear here so frequently. I just still thought we were such great friends by then. It can still be hard to sort out. But here is some of it.

By the way, I think I will read what my H wrote about links so I don’t copy all this here next time <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> Could be smart since I am married to the man. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

We had sex in his truck one time. The first time.
He wanted to have it somewhere even worse(to me). When he started to kiss me, etc, I panicked. I kept saying, "I can't do this." And I would pull away. He kept saying, "Yes you can." Back and forth. Then it got worse. Suggestions or better yet directions on what I could do if I were not willing to have intercourse.(You have got to remember. I was with only one man, my H, until then. Was actually a little scared by it all-dumb,dumb.) I finally told him I could not and needed to go home. He walked me back to his truck where he was going to drive me back to mine. I felt so guilty during the walk back. Felt like a tease. Did not want him to be angry.(Can you believe it?) I told him I felt like he was angry. And he said he was just dissappointed. He thought we had come to an agreement that we both wanted this.
Got in his truck. Felt like cr**. I then offered to follow through. I still feel sick about that first time. How could I see him in a good light after that? He of course kept calling me saying he was worried how I was after how it went. Blah, blah, blah. I bought it. I feel more sick over my stupidity than almost anything. I feel horrible over hurting my H, but right now I have no self-esteem. I still hate how he must think of me. Yuck.

How do I forgive this man? I asked him so many times to not pursue me b/c I knew I could not handle it right then. I know that sounds weak. I was weak. I am not proud of myself. I know I still had the ability to walk away. I was hoping for honor from a man that did not want to show any. Has made me take a look at H. I think I expected honor from OM because my H is so much that way. Thought it must be pretty natural for most men.

Bosstenor,
onlywords put this quote in her post

"I have to write to discover what I am doing. I don't know so well what I think until I see what I say." -Flannery O'Connor

As awful as it is, what is written above has helped me. It does help to write it out. I do not want to pine, and when I do, I want to be corrected. But for me, getting it out has taken away a lot of the power of the OM. Writing it out also helps me to see the truth, however painful that has been. At times it has been a really painful wakeup call.

I also want to talk about my H. Learn to focus again on my M. Find ways to bless my children and H again with good family memories. It will take time. At least it will for me. I have always felt I was a slow but sure learner. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

A big thank you to all of you that are a little farther along!

I know I really need to hear the hope you have for our Ms.

I still can’t get that Mission Impossible soundtrack out of my head… thanks a lot chackler <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> .

Blessings,
Pam

Ps. Hi PAL. Really glad to see you stuck around. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Originally posted by onlywords:
" Pepper,

Now you're starting to sound like the OM...he thought he was THE biggest outlaw, done things lower than low, therefore assumed he knew what lay behind everything I did or said. That bugs me, sorry. "

Well.... I mentioned my former crappy behaviors to you because.... Sometimes WW will imply that because I have never been a WW I think I am better than WW.

So, no I do not think I am better than you.

I am in NO WAY an outlaw. I am a middle-aged woman with regrets. Average, I think.

Onlywords, I wish you well on your journey. I feel confident that you do not need me. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Pep

Broken Vessel,

Other than the encouragement poems I’ve send this morning, I’ve also send you another post on this thread. Please read it. I’m just afraid you won’t notice the thread before it fell of the page, so that’s why I send you the link here also. I’ll be back to post again tomorrow morning, so in the meantime, please take care. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Blessings,
Suzet

Moving Forward.....My countdown has begun. Nine more days here then I'll truly be moving forward!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />
Scary and exciting all at the same time!!

Heh heh - still got the Mission Impossible song in your brain RAP? Sorry about that!

Hey ladies! It's another day and we are alive and kicking, which is a good thing!

Someone brought up what we have done for our hubby's lately, LB deposits?

I watered the garden for him this morning.
He's sick so I bought him Pepto Bismo so when I get home he will have some.
If he gets sick I will hold his hair. He's got beautiful long brown straight hair - yum! Also I will make sure he's as comfortable as possible though that's hard when you have the stomach flu! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /></li>

We need a new song, we don't want RAP to go nuts with the Mission Impossible song. Any suggestions?

Another question where are you ladies from? I live in So Cal, right outside of Los Angeles. We are having simply gorgeous weather today!!!

Oops, double post!

[ June 28, 2004, 08:33 PM: Message edited by: chackler ]

[ July 28, 2004, 05:33 AM: Message edited by: Broken Vessell ]

I believe my words were Only, you mentioned in one of your earlier posts about how time will heal or it will take time..

in response to and from you I totally understand that, and I wish it would be fixed, too....but it takes time...lots of it.

nothing malicious..simply responding to your own words.

Good luck on your venture of recovery.I do wish you well..its one hell of a hard journey...and the hardest is facing ourselfves.

Max.

Hi everyone! Well I'm home from work. Took off my geek clothes and put on shorts.

Chackler - Good for you. You watered the garden for husband, and taking car of him when he is sick. That is a start.

I live in Southern Cal - Oceanside to be exact, home of the US Marines.

BV - Great - if you told WH thanks for tidying the garden and making him coffee.

Sorry you have so much ironing. You are a better woman than I am - anything that needs ironing, I give to charity.

I hope you are working more on forgiving yourself. I used to be like you - could not forgive myself for something I did, much worse. Finally I wrote it all down and took the note to church and laid it at the foot of the cross.

Anyone do anything for themselves today?

For me, for today? Not really but I enjoy taking care of my husband when he's not feeling well. Does that count?

chackler - Yep that counts. And tomorrow I'm going to ask you what you did for you.

BV,

I have been reading your stuff and may I say something - you are way too hard on yourself my friend. I thought I was bad!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

I know given the circumstances of your A it would make everything much more worse and I totally understand that. I just worry that if you keep being hard on yourself it will make recovery even more difficult than it already is.

Are you on anti-depressants?

Depression runs wild in my family, my mom, dad, both brothers and myself have it. My mom and middle brother have bordered on suicide. My other brother chooses to drink away his problems though he's not as bad as he use to be. I've been on ad's since my pop died a few years back but I had to up the dosage once the A happened.

I felt as if I didn't want to live. Not that I wanted to die mind you, I just wanted to go to sleep for a long time and let it all pass. Since my dosage was upped I no longer want to go to sleep, although I love naps!!!!

I'm just worried about you. You just seem so full of dispare and I don't want you to feel that way. There is a light, I sure as heck see it. You are a light you know... You have the gift of encouragement and that is a HUGE gift! You have blessed many people with your knowledge and insight on this board - time to start blessing yourself missy! You deserve it! Do something simple, go out and get a pedicure or a massage. You have been through hell and beyond, time to start taking care of yourself now so it doesn't get any worse.

BV, are you overseas? How about I get the book and send it to ya?

[ July 28, 2004, 05:33 AM: Message edited by: Broken Vessell ]

MadMaxx,

Feels like we're not communicating very well. Sometimes it helps to go back and re-read posts. I was telling another MBer to give her HUSBAND time...he being the BS. You came in and said- time won't do the healing, it's what you DO with that time- in response to what I had said. She was trying all sorts of things and her BS wasn't responding.
So what am I missing here?

Yes, the hardest thing is facing ourselves. let's do that. Me first!

Early on when I started posting I was in a state of withdrawal over OM. PEPPER asked me some questions. As I was thinking about my answers I realized that a lot of the feelings I had were a result of my foolish PRIDE. Do you know what was really behind my agony over OM????

I felt BETRAYED by him!

You read that right. As soon as I saw that, I snapped out of that fog pretty quick. It should be pretty obvious why.

Not an easy thing to face, but totally necessary.

I'm curious....what has brought you back to the MB site?

J

MadMAxx -

Oh, I found what you were referring to...that was on ANOTHER thread....no wonder I'm confused.

BrokenVessel: I think that is an excellent idea - to plant your burdens at the base of 'forgiveness tree' in your garden. Roses would be good too. You could think of the thorns on the roses as the crown of thorns Christ wore on the cross.

Good luck and God Bless!
RH

Hi ladies.

Hope everyone is feeling a little better today.

For trouble sleeping my doctor said to take Benedryl (the anti-histamine). I took one last night and was out like a light, and slept all night long.

Broken vessel - I love your idea. I would make a real ritual out of it. We know we are forgiven in our mind, but sometimes our feelings don't follow. For me the "symbolic" laying my burden down really helped.

Well today I am giving everyone an assignment to do one nice thing for hubbie and one nice thing for yourself. Is that too much? See if you can give it a try.

Hope you all have a great day.

Only... I felt BETRAYED by him!

sadly enough I know that.

What brings me back?...eerrmm a paper. And a need ...or a need and a paper.

One sees,when one walks in to a bar or a hotel...perhaps...a sign that says.. Alcohol can tear your family apart I wanna see right up there next to that sign another that states...inBIG BOLD letters.... SO DOES ADULTERY .

Max

Take care

ohh and yeah..before anyone gets too cross again. I do not like the term affair.Thats why when I can I use the term ADULTERY.

Affair is just a pretty, flossed up word, that fails to reflect the pain and misery associated with the WS the BS and the OP.

Max

Doesn't matter what you call it....we all know what it means.

Some do and some don't.

None of us on these boards, are born with the skills to deal with it. We live ,we learn or we don't...the choice is always ours.

Stay strong and embrace.

Max

OOPS> POSTED AS NCWALKER. Sorry

[ June 29, 2004, 10:29 AM: Message edited by: ncwalker ]

Hi all. I have to try to stay away from the computer today and get something done! My kids might also tear the house down around me <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

onlywords,

Wow. I know what you mean about the betrayal. Silly really. His W is the real betrayed one.I understand. I am happy it snapped you out of it. I am not seeming to come out as quickly. I am frustrated about that.

believer,

I live in North Carolina. Also, I am going to try to do something my husband would find nice today. For myself, I will think about it. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> Thank you for the encouragement.

Pepperband,

I am still thinking about your words on feelings and letting them pass through you. How I am failing at that! Both ways! Not happy about feelings with H. Want all the feelings back from long ago. Not happy about the other junk either. It will really take some practice, but I have not forgotten what you said.

BV,

You still are very inspirational. I don't feel like sharing today. You are so good at getting it to come out right. I am afraid of saying something wrong and quite possibly offending. Just want the pain to go.

I have joined a Bible study (this could be the thing that is for me) at my church. Believe it or not it is about dance. I have been a classical dancer all my life. I have always wanted to do it for the Lord. We practice for an hour then do the study based on the book "The Heart of an Artist." I am so excited! I need to get with Christians more, and dance is my passion. The group will perform at my church. It is neat how God brings encouragement.

I don't think sometimes that I am as strong as you all are. I have to get there. I can't stay here. It is not any way to live.

BV,

I love your idea about planting your "forgiveness." It gives me ideas on what I need to bury before the Lord.

Blessings to all,

Pam

PS. Believer, how is the geek in training doing? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Oops. Double post.

[ June 29, 2004, 10:41 AM: Message edited by: runawaypot ]

Hello everyone,

I think I'm ready to move on...say goodbye to this site. I feel like I'm going round in circles here and getting nowhere fast. My hubby wants to go through a couple of books he bought...Harley's and the one called Torn Asunder. I didn't want to, so he convinced me to come here. I guess it helped....ironically, I would have to give the most thanks to...

MadMaxx and Pepperband.

Mad, I think there is a method to your "madness" though I must say, you are a mystery to me, yet intriguing nonetheless!

Pepper had a different approach...."gentle nudging" I would call it.

Some people respond best to the "tough love" and others to the gentle nudging. I guess I respond to both!

So I wish you all the best, but I gotta go.

RAP....the offer still stands if you want to e-mail. You have a gentleness about you that comes through in your posts....I should have guessed you are an artist! You have a lot of questions....that's ok...actually, it's necessary. I don't know ANYTHING anymore. But what I want is to figure this out with my husband. I think eventually we will find our way, together, a path made just for the two of us. What is right for us may be wrong for you and your marriage.
Too many voices on this site just confuse me.

Thanks to everyone for the support.

Julie

[ July 28, 2004, 05:34 AM: Message edited by: Broken Vessell ]

onlywords -

Torn Asunder is a great book. I especially like the chapter on "The Message of the Affair". I know you are leaving, but if you ever get a chance, can you list some of the messages?

I would, but my husband has the book and I can't seem to get it back.

Thanks, and good luck with your recovery.

Hi all. Congrats onlywords on your decision. I don't mean it poorly. It is nice to hear how you two are determined to move on "together." Sounds like you are finding what will work for you.

I may still email ya, you sound like such a neat gal. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

I did some real LBing to my H today. We are supposed to go to Florida to his dad's house. It is a very long story, but I really did not want to go. H was gone almost a year in March. Just wanted to stay for a couple days at home and get things(painting, house repairs) done that are bugging me. Wanted to be alone. Wanted the kids to have a blast, but without me. It is a very selfish desire. The plan was to fly oneway down on Priceline in a couple of days. Just really craved to be alone. ALL VERY SELFISH> I see this now. I hurt him badly.

Now I am going. But not until I already hurt him. I just got off the phone with my wonderful Christian friend of 14 years. We prayed and she corrected. Always good for that. I prayed for H. Now I have to walk it out.

I wish I could tell what my real struggles with feelings are for H. I don't know if I should really do that, or just mend it. In the end, it doesn't matter. I know. I am tired of him hurting. I don't want to be the source of that anymore. I know I am rambling. I guess I have not come to the point I need to.

I said before that I am a slow learner, but I will get it. I will get to where I need to be in M, but I am being bull-headed. It hurts so badly. You all say to make a choice. Love is a choice. If I could say what I want, you might understand. It wouldn't change that love is a choice, but it would explain the struggle being so intense.

It all comes down to growing up. Somewhere along the way, I don't think I grew up. I don't think I have taken responsibility for being an adult and loving unselfishly.

I am laughing because I cannot believe I am saying this to people I have never met. People who have definitely shown love, but still Idon't know.

I know I will get slammed for this, and I deserve to. I will come back and post more, but I cannot stay. I cannot stay until I can do this with all my heart. I am scared it is not in me to love my H the way he needs. We used to have it. Many years ago. I haven't felt it in so long. Why? He is so wonderful. I did not set out to do this. Really.

I hope you are not all too mad at me. I can imagine you "mature" MBers just shaking your heads. I truly understand. I WANT to make right choices. I feel so opposite of what I ever did before. Not neutral. Opposite. That is the nicest way I know how to say it.

Now that it is out there, I will hear what you say. Love is a choice. I have got to make that choice. I thought I had. H is all I have ever loved. Why am I being so difficult?

I am sorry to offend. Please know I am just expressing. My H is definitely better than I am. He is worth making that choice. Why is it such a struggle with this feelings issue? Also, I do not want OM in that way. It has little to do with him, except the feelings he stirred like BV talked about.

Now that I have completely "dumped" all my thoughts, I have to say I am sorry. I have definitely used this board to just spout out my thoughts. Thank you for just overlooking this if it is too offensive!

Now that I look totally looney, I will say "Goodbye." I will come back when I know my commitment is for sure and not so wishy-washy.

Blessings,
Pam

Hmmm. I hope you will not stay gone. You have been making progress and it does take time. Hope you will hang in here.

RAP: I just wanted to respond to your last post. Onlywords is leaving the board because it is so hard to keep up with so many threads. It is confusing having so many different people, so many stories, the abbreviations, etc. that it is hard to keep it all straight. Then you get a couple of people that like to snipe and that bothers her. Now different people see things differently, that is a fact of life. But for her to continue to work on our Marriage, she feels that she needs to spend less time on the forum. The fact I've been off work the last two weeks has helped and she had got help from the board. The board was a huge factor in helping us communicate. For that I am thankful, though we still have a lot to work through.

When I go back to work next week, she may lurk here, but doesn't plan to post. She did have a few questions that didn't get answered and wondered why. The only thing I could figure is that either those that read the posts didn't have what they felt was an acceptable answer. That happens.

RAP: I have a fun question for you. Please do not take offense. I have a quote from you below and I noticed at least one place where NCW said something similar:

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> Now I am going. But not until I already hurt him. I just got off the phone with my wonderful Christian friend of 14 years. We prayed and she corrected. Always good for that. I prayed for H. Now I have to walk it out. <hr /></blockquote>You said that you have to "walk it out." Is this a southern colloquialism? Up north we say something like "working things out." Just curious <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I will tell you one more thing. If you are getting more than you are losing from this board, then stay. If you feel that it is hurting your recovery more than helping, then it may be best to give the board a break. That is ok. But do not give up on the marriage builder principles. If you have HNHN/SAA from Harley, then continue to read them, to process what you went through. If you have Torn Assunder by Dave Carder, use that. It is also a good book to process the A. Above all, continue to communicate with NCWalker and keep God in your lives. That above all things will help you get through these troubling times.

Good luck and God Bless!!
RH

Wow. I think that this thread started out to be a safe place. But turned out to be not so safe. That is a huge loss.

I have been on MB for 10 months and I see WS's leaving one by one. That is so sad, because they need the support just like the rest of us do.

I'm staying, I need all the help I can get.

RAP, please don't leave, this is a place where you can air out some of your feelings. I think you are fogged and it would help you very much to write down what's going through your mind as opposed to keeping it all inside.

Please don't leave!!!

BTW, gentle 2x4 here - you need to go and be with your husband on this trip, or he needs to stay home with you. Until trust is re-established you need to do what you can to help put his mind at ease.

chackler - Hi. Glad you are still here. I did write to the moderators and asked them to have a forum for WS's.

So far I haven't heard anything back. But I can tell you that WS's don't last long here. There used to be some men - but they are gone. Now you women have this thread. I really hope that it will continue. It is very important.

Runawaypot.

Have you ever heard of the story of a man who stood at a mountain pass?…2 passageways before him…he stood there...not knowing what track to take.. anxious lost and scared…often he would set off down one track…but fearing he had made a mistake he returned to the mountain pass…this happened time and time again…then before he knew it…night had fallen and he froze to death before ever making his decision of which path would be right for him.

I see you at that pass...have a little faith within yourself RAP.

Max

RH and onlywords,

Thanks for your responses. I truly am happy for how it seems you are united to do this thing together. Thanks for all your support to us. Especially NCW.

Oh, the "walking it out" is a southern saying. More of a saying that sounds "super spiritual" here in the South. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

madmax,

I think you got it. I hope I can get it. I'm angry, confused, sad. It has to do with so much more than just the A. I appreciate your post. Have heard it before, but have never needed to apply it so desperately.

chackler,

You are a gem. I can tell. I wish I could just fastforward to where you are. I am scared. I feel very wimpy:( right now. Thank you.

believer,
Thank you too. I could post what I need if I had to. I just don't have the courage right now. I don't like what is going on inside. I am a Christian and none of this fits. I have never been here before. I think I have been waiting to have this "fog" or whatever leave. I was giving it a few days. Now that I can't seem to have it all gone on my timetable, I can't seem to take it well. Silly really.

I am just very ashamed that I am struggling with all this junk when I know who needs my love the most. None of this makes any sense. I want it to be over yesterday!

I want to come back when I can be positive. At least not so here and there.

Get back to your regularly scheduled programming okay? Enough about me already! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Blessings,
Pam

RAP, I know I sound really strong and I'm pretty handy with the 2x4s and I don't know if this will make you feel better or worse but H and I are STILL struggling with all this but we are well on the way to recovery. I look forward to him coming home. Things will always be different now but boy, have we learned a lot and I think we've got a better marriage now than we had.

A ended in June last year and D-day was October last year. Last contact EVER was in January this year. And H knows about that contact and I would tell him if contact, either accidental or on purpose (by OM), was ever made again. In fact, at that meeting OM said to me with a smirk "I'm sorry I ruined your life." H was FURIOUS on my behalf which was very sweet and says a lot about how much H loves me.

They say it takes 2 years to recover and I believe it.

That's why the name you picked for this post is absolutely perfect. Moving forward is the only way to go and the only way I intend to go.

Jenny

[ June 29, 2004, 11:34 PM: Message edited by: KiwiJ ]

Thanks a lot KiwiJ. I will keep that in mind. Maybe just a little tired now? Ya'll keep this going and I will check in or "lurk" like some say while in Florida.

Pam

Ooops, I added more and you'd already read it. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Dear RAP, <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

I am FRANTICALLY posting this to you in the hope you will read it before you go anywhere. Incase you don’t I will send a Call out to you on the main board..

I AM EXACTLY AT THE PLACE YOU ARE NOW WITH REGARDS TO OM AND YOUR FEELINGS WITH YOUR H… Exactly, precisely, definitely, hugely, (in otherwords it is as though you are speaking for me in my feelings and M too)

I want to be honest with you totally, because I fear that in trying to understand myself and my position and how I was struggling in God, my posts may have come across as too ‘spiritual’ and it may have seemed that I was strong in God and doing well in my recovery…

I AM NOT, and I am prepared for people who want to send me 4x4’s in response to this post, but I would rather cope with that, then losing you on this thread because you think you are not coping as well as others.

I will share everything in the stage I am at now for you to understand this and to earnestly ask you NOT to lose heart.

I think we (some of us here) have come to a stage where we are ‘anxious’ because we don’t feel we can keep talking and sharing and being honest about our feelings for OM and our struggles within our M..

I thought that was the whole point of this thread, was to give us opportunity to do that and to MOVE FORWARD together. I confess that before I logged on this morning I was at the point of ‘leaving this thread too’ because, (like you perhaps?) I was wondering if my struggles had got to the point of not being able to ‘keep sharing anymore’ and thinking how much longer will people ‘want’ to keep listening to me. When I saw your post, I dropped everything (except my cup of tea!!) and am desperately trying to help you understand that I am not further on than you are in all this.

We need to keep this thread line OPEN to people who are struggling at this almost “stalemate” point in our progress. We know in a way what we should be aiming for, but at the moment can’t see any way of getting there yet. You said: (to onlywords)

“Wow. I know what you mean about the betrayal. Silly really. His W is the real betrayed one.I understand. I am happy it snapped you out of it. I am not seeming to come out as quickly. I am frustrated about that.”

I looked at that when you wrote it and thought “is that me or what” because it is how I am exactly.. You said to Pep ..

“I am still thinking about your words on feelings and letting them pass through you. How I am failing at that! Both ways! Not happy about feelings with H. Want all the feelings back from long ago. Not happy about the other junk either. It will really take some practice, but I have not forgotten what you said.”

RAP this again is ME. I have a ‘despair in me’ which comes out if you read my posts to JL on the thread ‘broken vessell with the dramatic…” You see I NEVER even experienced ‘passion’ feelings with H in the past. I don’t know where to begin in my R (JL helping me here), because I don’t have any ‘passion’ feelings to fall back on.

I am ashamed, scared and horrified at this realization but I don’t? How do I start? It was OM who brought out that side in me, so I can’t get thoughts of H out of mind with regards to that area? <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

(To understand my mindset and how I never felt passion you will find out on other thread).

I don’t want H to touch me, be phys close to me or anything. Am REALLY struggling in this. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

OM moving away so (even though people will think am terrible for saying this), but I don’t want him to move.. I am struggling so so so so so much with NC. (16 weeks this Sunday). I want contact with him. I miss contact. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

There. Am saying it honestly and out loud to everyone, so you can all see how much FOG I am still in.. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

I am still drinking to ‘numb’ this feeling of despair out. There. You all know now what a mess I am in.

I know I love God, but, this pain is hard.. (see, I am not that strong in God)

When I do posts and share my faith in God, in a way I am thinking out loud and trying to encourage others, and myself at the same time. (Remember King David when Saul was pursuing him in the mountains of Engedi I think)

It says “but David encouraged himself in God”…

When I read all your posts and the posts from others, it encourages me so much, because you, FL, Lisa, chackler and the rest of us are still at the struggling with missing OM stage, although you say:

“Also, I do not want OM in that way. It has little to do with him, except the feelings he stirred like BV talked about”.

Another thing I will be honest about, is that I do miss him despite everything. It was more than the phys, it was huge Emotionally, friendship, fun etc etc, Texts, phone calls,

Do you see how low down on the recovery stage I am with my H??

I seem to be at point blank at the moment. You said:

“I wish I could tell what my real struggles with feelings are for H. I don't know if I should really do that, or just mend it. In the end, it doesn't matter. I know. I am tired of him hurting. I don't want to be the source of that anymore. I know I am rambling. I guess I have not come to the point I need to.”

In no way have I come to the ‘recovery point’..

“I know I will get slammed for this, and I deserve to. I will come back and post more, but I cannot stay. I cannot stay until I can do this with all my heart. I am scared it is not in me to love my H the way he needs. We used to have it. Many years ago. I haven't felt it in so long. Why? He is so wonderful. I did not set out to do this. Really.”

I honestly never set out for it to happen in the way it did with me. You are a special loved person by many and by God,(trying to accept that for myself as well – remember by on going ‘self forgiveness thing’ and we both made a mistake. We are both trying to understand why, how, what do I do to cope, and will I make it anyway stage. You said:

“I hope you are not all too mad at me. I can imagine you "mature" MBers just shaking your heads. I truly understand. I WANT to make right choices. I feel so opposite of what I ever did before. Not neutral. Opposite. That is the nicest way I know how to say it.”

I think this should be a place to feel safe, and confident on this thread. I accept we need good, loving and firm input from others and it will help us on, but I also think if people cannot express their thoughts to us for struggling with the feelings we are doing, in a positive and caring way, then they will not be making a deposit to us in our recovery. Infact it will make people just want to go. I don’t want to go, I need you all and I need you too in this RAP! You said

“I am sorry to offend. Please know I am just expressing. My H is definitely better than I am. He is worth making that choice. Why is it such a struggle with this feelings issue? Also, I do not want OM in that way. It has little to do with him, except the feelings he stirred like BV talked about.”

(I am struggling so much with this… see my comment above). I feel my H deserves so one better.. Do you know I even pray for God to ‘take me’ and provide someone better for my H and kids?

“Now that I look totally looney, I will say "Goodbye." I will come back when I know my commitment is for sure and not so wishy-washy.

Our commitment will be wishy washy for ages yet, and I don’t want you gone ages…! I am not posting on this thread because I realize my ‘commitment’ is now ‘sure’ to H. I am posting to hear from others like you who are in the same stage as me where we feel we are just ‘existing’ and have no commitment to much at all at the moment.

Believer said

“Wow. I think that this thread started out to be a safe place. But turned out to be not so safe. That is a huge loss .”

<img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> Please let it go back to this. If we can get a thread as believer has asked for, perhaps we can all continue still, but PLEASE DON’T ANYONE GO (really wish you would stay too onlywords please?)

You have no idea how much I think of ‘these strangers across the world’ who I have come to care for and NEED SO MUCH IN MY LIFE…!

I REALLY NEED YOU ALL <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Please stay RAP and onlywords? I miss FL too. Will try to keep in touch with her on her other thread. I wonder how she felt on here too?

Have to go now,

Will post later,

Please answer RAP and onlywords,

Kas

Hi everyone....not sure if I'll stay yet, but I wanted to say something to RAP...

You keep saying "it" has little to do with OM...that there were things in your marriage BEFORE the affair....

RAP, I know that, because of the nature of this website, it would seem that all of our current problems are a direct result of the affair....but IT'S NOT!!!!! It is/was a SYMPTOM of what is wrong in a marriage, not THE CAUSE of what's wrong.

I totally understand what you're saying...your feelings aren't matching up with your decision. Your feelings didn't match up BEFORE the affair, either.

I can tell you that for me, I felt as though I had changed, in a big way, over the past 4-5 years. I feel like a totally different person...and it no longer "seemed" that Recovering H and I belonged together. We grew apart.
When we met, we got to know each other very well. But we forgot that people do change, so we went along thinking we still KNEW each other, so we didn't keep up with each other...just sort of took it for granted that we were the same people we were when we got married. We aren't.

So now what we have to do is get to know each other, as we are now. What it sometimes feels like is that I'm trying to FORCE myself to be "in love with" this man, just for the sake of "doing the right thing". It doesn't feel AT ALL easy or "natural". It feels like WORK. But that's what people keep saying it is...WORK. So I keep trying, hoping that someday I'll finally understand what they are talking about. And also hoping that someday, it won't feel as much like a "job" but more like a "Career"....if you know what I mean. More like you WANT to than that you HAVE to.

Right now all I have to go on is what other people say can and will happen if you persist.
I'm going on faith....blind, but hopeful.

Right now, the most important thing is that you maintain NC with OM. It does NOT feel good. And I know that when you have confusing mixed up feelings, it doesn't feel to you like you are doing anything right...when I was deeper in withdrawal, I thought I was failing because of the feelings I had. The reality was that I was succeeding because I was not acting on them!

I admit that part of the reason I want to stay off this board is because sometimes a person comes along and seems to want you to feel like the biggest low-life imaginable...they want to pound it into your head that you are scum. They want you to feel the pain they feel. Misery loves company, to quote the cliche. I, personally, still feel sensitive to that, and all it seems to do is set me back...it's paralyzing and not helpful. They seem to be able to undo in two seconds flat what all these other wonderful women here have done to support us.

I don't know if I help anyone by being here or not. Sometimes I don't know if I'm being helped or not either.

Here's a quote I posted on another thread...just for the chance that it will help:

"Be patient toward all that is unsolved in your heart and try to love the questions themselves...Do not now seek the answers which cannot be given you because you would not be able to live them and the point is to live everything. Live the questions now. Perhaps you will then gradually, without noticing it, live along some distant day into the answer."

That is Rainer Maria Rilke, from Letters to a Young Poet

Please be patient with yourself...to quote again, "God has not brought you all this way to make a fool of you or his plans for you."
-Joy Houghton

Julie

Dear Onlywords,

Just read your post to RAP.

It is so true what you have said to her, and is the same for me in my M.

I am working on this too.. (see my thread where JL & pep's input is helping me with advice) on “broken vessel with dramatic…)

You are helping people just by the fact you have said what you did. It puts into words what I am feeling to in my M and how we ‘grew apart’ without realizing it. We never kept up with each other either, and thought we still knew each other. We took it for granted (esp me) that we were the same people. We forgot that important factor of communication and keeping in touch and that we were different people.

I want to learn. I am having to start all over..I am starting in faith too. Thanks for your post.. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

DEAR Rap & all!

Ps Suzet has sent some lovely encouraging poems and thoughts on a thread ‘broken vessell’ in relation to forgiveness, faith, and trusting God. It is helping me a lot to read them.

Hi BV. I just spent about 20 minutes writing to you and lost it. I did it in Word, but I messed up copying it here!

I will respond later. My little one has lost his patience.

Thank you for your honesty. I am sorry you did that for me. You know you are an extremely special woman!

Pam

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by onlywords:
when I was deeper in withdrawal, I thought I was failing because of the feelings I had. The reality was that I was succeeding because I was not acting on them!<hr /></blockquote>This is SO true! The problem is not with the feelings we experience and can’t control, the problem comes when ACTING on those feelings.

Broken Vessel, I’ve just sent you another post on “To Broken Vessel”.

I hope all your ladies will stay here and continue to encourage and support each other! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Blessings,
Suzet

Morning ladies. Well yesterday was a rough day on this thread. I hope it will be better today.

I hope you will hang in here. Many others (especially men) stopped posting after a few choice comments. You just need to ignore them.

If you are trying to heal, this is the place. I think everyone assumes that only the BS is hurt in all of this, which you know is not true.

strength in numbers-
we all have different
viewpoints-but yet all
the same-we cheated on
our H-we regret it-we
want to MOVE FORWARD-
& we can do that with
each other!
my calendar says this
today-God is talking to
me & all of you.
"CHOICES. life is made up
of them.chances are you
havent always made the right
choices. in fact,you may have
even made some big blunders-
the kind that hurt,destroy,
and leave smoldering ruins.
so what do you do now?
you make another choice,of
course. this time you choose
better.you humble yourself
& ask to be forgiven. you
walk up to the door. knock.
& then scoop up your shattered
heart & hand it over to God."
enough said...
blessings for wednesday...
pal

onlywords,

I just now saw your last post. Thank you.

I lost my train of thought. I am extremely upset now. My H just called. He is nice one minute, and angry and mean the next.

He says I am not doing POJA. I showed him how we have been(although imperfectly). I did resist Florida trip, but I am going. The other things we have been POJAing. He says it's not POJA if itis not done with joy.

I am shut down. Iknow that hurts him. But I am not blasting him. He is blasting me. I can't take it anymore. I am here. I am not with OM. I want to come out of this, but it is so hard when you are constantly told what you are doing is not enough. I am not being perfect by any means. I know that. It just hurts when I am trying to just be here and come out, however slowly. It hurts him to the point where he gets upset.

I feel I can barely breathe, keep my head above water. I am not proud of that. He says I don't know how he hurts. True.

He says I show him nothing that says I want this to work. I am here. I am not constantly nagging, complaining, demanding he change. I am quiet and not very attentive. I did do wrong when it came to this Florida trip.

I know he is in pain. I am not comforting him well. One minute he gives me a card, and the next he is calling me from work angry over something he says is not going right.

I will have to learn to be patient. I will have to learn to give to him more. I feel he won't see what is right. Only what was missing in what I did. I can't take that right now. Maybe that is what I deserve.

This sounds horrible. Please forgive me. Right now it is all I can do to maintain Nc. H yelling at me and saying I am not working on this hard enough does not help. Does he not see I have picked him? I am here. I wish he could see how hard that was. Forgive me BSs, but it is true. It was hard to face our M again. I want to do more, but give me time! PLEASE!

I am sorry. I know he is hurting. He needs to be allowed to express himself to me. But he scares me. I truly feel I will not do enough to show him I am in this. I don't know what exactly he wants me to do to prove this to him. How am I supposed to be perfect for him, when half the time I don't feel like living myself? I just wish he could see that. It is not personal. Just let me get to where I can function without crying all day.

Sorry girls. See why Ineed to leave a while?

BV,
I wanted to respond to your post with that letter I lost on Word. Forgive me. I can't do this right now. You are one special person, and please know your words have helped so much. More than you know.

i will come back when I can share something with a light heart. At least some of the time. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I know there is a way out, but how? It hurts so bad. I can't seem to do anything right. God I need you so badly. Sorry all. Sounds way too pitiful. I will get out of this with God's help and some willingness on my part. Just have to get this stubborn girl lined up.

Pam

I am feeling like it would be so much better to not live under the same roof right now. That doesn't make sense.

Every time I see him it is a reminder of what I have done.

Every time I see him, I am reminded of all the things I am not doing for him.

Every time I see him, I am waiting for when he can't take it anymore, and he has to get upset.

There is such tension. How do you get through this when you are so worn out by just being in each other's presence?

[ July 28, 2004, 05:35 AM: Message edited by: Broken Vessell ]

[ July 28, 2004, 05:36 AM: Message edited by: Broken Vessell ]

My Dearest RAP,

I broke my promise and came on your thread. This last page. I am truly sorry I got bent out of shape. I am doing the best I can. I really did misunderstand some of the things you said and took them personally. It was selfish. I love you more than anything and should mirror my words with actions. Sorry that I fail sometime. I was on edge and should have been “quick to listen, slow to speak…” Please forgive me.

You said something that struck a chord in me, you said (probably going to misquote) “I chose you, I am still here” meaning not with OM. I do understand that. You chose me, our family, and what was RIGHT in the eyes of God. You have a good moral sense and you “chose” right for a lot of reasons, I am not the only one. But I am thankful that I am a part of the choice. I really am.

Please, listen carefully to what I am about to say. It is not a dig. I am not trying to be pious, or make myself a martyr. I CHOSE you too. But my choice was ONLY for you. See I WAS right with God and our marriage, I stayed faithful. And I was thinking of our children – I did not choose to risk the family with my behavior. So my choice to stay, to allow you to come back, was wholly for you. I am not unique. That is the choice of the BS – we have all made it. Why make the choice? YOU are worth it. OUR MARRIAGE is worth it. My choice is a demonstration of YOUR worth and ONLY your worth. I am frustrated that you can’t see that. You say you are a bad person, if you were I would have left long ago. You are a WONDERFUL person, you just made a bad choice. And in the aftermath, we have both hurt each other. I AM sorry for my part. I am not perfect, I am only your husband.

You wrote this stuff in your post. PLEASE PLEASE tell me what hurts. I will listen and I will do my best to not be angry. I can’t promise I won’t get angry sometimes, but I will do my best. It will be a lot of work to fix us and I am not scared of that. What scares me most is your walls that you have put up because of this mixture of guilt/pain/shame will hinder our intimacy (NOT sexual, I mean our connection) through this.

Here is what you wrote:

I am feeling like it would be so much better to not live under the same roof right now. That doesn't make sense.

I am your best friend. Besides God, there is no one on this earth who is going to be more selfless in helping you through this pain. Yes it will hurt me some and yes I will stumble, but you are WORTH all the pain. You are emotionally wounded and weak right now. What if you were physically weak or injured, who besides me would be more willing and able to stay by your side? Tell me what you need and I’ll do it. DON’T be afraid to lean on me. I may bend some, but I WILL NOT BREAK. Cast me from your light, that is when I will die, dry up, and go away. Not from you having to lean on me. You have let me lean on you lots over the years, at the least, let me return the favor. What better place could you be than under a roof where everyone LOVES you?

Every time I see him it is a reminder of what I have done.

That is something we will get through. Every time I see you, it is a reminder as well. But when I see you I also remember: our wedding day, the birth of each kid, our first home, talking about our dreams, and lots of good stuff too. We have done “bad things” to each other before and those memories have faded, this will too and only the good will remain.

Every time I see him, I am reminded of all the things I am not doing for him.

Use that. Don’t let the enemy talk you out of being a good wife for your own sake. I am learning that too. Perhaps a little too late. We can learn and grow and be better and move forward. God is just stretching both of us now. Don’t read more in to it than what it is. Be peaceful, do what you can when you can and he will bring us along. I can be patient (most times, sorry <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> ).

Every time I see him, I am waiting for when he can't take it anymore, and he has to get upset.

I will do my best. That is all I can do. Don’t be afraid to take a step to me. Just a little step. When we step toward each other is when the recovery will be shortest. You are afraid to step toward me (I think) and I get upset. Ask yourself: would I be upset more or less if you were taking steps toward me? I know it is hard. All I can promise is to do my best. I am going to fail sometimes.

There is such tension. How do you get through this when you are so worn out by just being in each other's presence?

Tension is a funny thing. If two people pull on a rope, there is tension. But strangely, if one person ties a rope to a solid object, like a rock, and pulls there is STILL tension. There is only no tension when you walk into the rope and not pull. Both of us have to do it at the same time. We are both guilty of tugging. Sometimes we both pull, sometimes you don’t budge and I pull, sometimes the reverse. We HAVE had some good days since D-Day. When we walked towards each other. We just have to keep trying.

I am sorry for tugging so hard today. I know it feels like you are getting pulled in every direction. Me, the kids, your own self. I’m sorry.

PLEASE try and receive my love again. It is still there for you and I will shine it on you as much as I can. I just made a mistake and got in the way. You really are worth it to me.

Love,

NCWalker

RAP, BV, Onlywords and so many others

I have been just lurking here a bit not sure if I should say much or anything in fact.
However, I see so much of myself in many of the posts, especially the parts in regard to underlying problems which led to my choosing an A.
I had, I do, have so many issues to do with our M , the biggest being loosing our child, I wanted to blame someone, I choose my absent H who was away fighting a war. So incomprehensible to my H and me in my spurts of sanity, but that’s what happened.

I see the same pain here in different ways and see the same sort of worries of hurting your h as I do. I see you dealing with the same anger from your H as I do. It seems I take a small step forward and 2 back. We have gone to MC , and IC for months, I still have so many insecurities, many that I created in the A.

But you see right now I can’t fight my battle for my H he is deployed SOMEWHERE again and we have had no contact. So he is probably worrying about what I am or will do, regardless of what I say, I can only keep a diary of each day and help show him how it is spent without him. It might help, who knows.

RAP & OW you seem to be in such a hard a place right now both of you. I can see the frustration and pain on both sides and I can’t help but think it is one of the important points that you have reached each of you in winning your H back. YOU SEE THAT WHAT I SEE IT AS, WINNING OUR H’s BACK.
Right now it’s like a hand goes out, you reach for it and sometimes find it slapped away. It seems that way for me in my case anyway. Sometimes I guess we slap our H’s hand away as well.
I hope this is all a natural process for all of us, but who knows.

Sometimes I think ‘YES’ I understand what he is doing and going through now, only to have something right out of the blue thrown at me and I’m right back where I started. When he was to be deployed again I guess I was at the end of my strength. I begged him in private and here on the board to give me one more chance. I surely hope he will do so. I am so sick at heart of hurting him anymore.

Oh did I forget to say I drove him away for some weeks, I mean he left the house, because, well everytime I looked at him he reminded me of what happened. I think if you asked him he would say it was for another reason that he left, but then I was very good at hurting him then. Not proud of how I got him back but he did come back so at least it's something.

But for both of you, though I have learnt so much from you here, if you need to go for a while then I guess you do. However I know that at least I will miss your commonsense and insights. So I wish you all the best and hope it works out for you.

Always wishing the best for you
CL

[ June 30, 2004, 11:45 AM: Message edited by: crazedlove ]

RAP & NCWalker,

Just have to say WOW!!! You guys are really trying. You are an inspiration.

Rap and NCWalker,

The two of you seem to be at the place me and Recovering H were when I came on board MBers. He was getting really really frustrated that we weren't making progress or doing anything to work on our marriage. I was still too much in withdrawal to do ANYTHING.
So there he was, scared to DEATH that if we didn't DO SOMETHING SOON, that he would lose me.
According to Harley, recovery can't begin until withdrawal is over. That's the UNDERSTATEMENT of the year!!!!
I felt like a loser. I was still comparing our marriage to the relationship with OM.... and it didn't make the marriage look too good. Yes, I HAD MADE THE CHOICE to stay, but , and I feel like a broken record here, ....my heart wasn't in it yet. And that is the part that confused me the most and the part that kept me from REALLY moving forward.

Like RAP, I felt tense all the time. I felt like I was being babysat, in a sort of prison, and felt really uncomfortable around my husband. There were times when I felt like things he said were meant to punish me, and that I was punishing myself enough...he didn't need to add to it.

One thing that helped me was to get out and do some mindless physical work....like gardening. I wanted so badly to feel NORMAL, even if only for a little while. It really helped! Meanwhile, though, my husband was in a panic....
I know it didn't APPEAR to him that anything was getting better, but I was processing things in my head. I should have shared more of what was going on in my head than I did, and this website helped me to do that.

NC, you made a good move posting here to your wife. I felt it was easier for me to express some of the hard stuff here....other people were here to support and cheer, protect and defend. I felt much safer.

The most important thing here is patience. Everyone moves at their own pace. It's been almost 5 months since D-day for us. I thought withdrawal would never end. it isn't completely over, but over enough for me to feel relief and ready to work on our marriage. I know Harley's book says typical withdrawal last about three weeks....but can linger three months or even longer. For me it was three months, and a lot of the reason I think it lasted longer was because he lives so close by. If OM's wife didn't also know, withdrawal would probably still be going on because I would be thinking there's still a good chance we could "get together" again. Not a pretty thing to admit, but true.

I don't know what else to say except that it's a damn scary thing...for BOTH of you. I told my husband that neither of us would probably ever TRULY know exactly what the other is going through and feeling or whatever...and I seriously wouldn't want him to feel the way I felt and vice versa anyway. So it's kind of fruitless to try to get the other to "feel your pain" so to speak. This isn't a contest about who is hurting more, but it can easily turn into one if you let it.

Lately I keep thinking about one of the last things Jesus said before he died on the cross...

"Forgive them father, for they know not what they do."

Julie

[ July 28, 2004, 05:37 AM: Message edited by: Broken Vessell ]

OnlyWords>>>>
Oh, my lord. I wish to God I could get you to talk to my wife. This is exactly where she is now! What you described in your reply regarding NC and RAP. My wife has said the same things to me. Every once in a while she break through and share with me how guilty she feels constantly and how she feels like a bad person. Then she'll close back up and go to stone again for a couple of weeks. She'll be harsh, even use bad language she's never used before... that just isn't her. She so full of fear that it won't work out that she will not act. She's stuck!

I'm serious about you chatting with her...would you be open to that? Let me know.

Left4dead,

Wow, that was weird...I get done posting to you on the other thread and when I hope back over to moving forward, there you were! I'm glad you came to visit! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Would your wife be willing to come and read the posts in this thread? First thing that would help is for her to know she isn't alone....that is the WORST feeling, even worse than withdrawal I think! Because we feel guilty already for what we've done, then we still have thse mixed feelings and that makes us feel, well, to put it mildly,...like we're losing it!

Ok....it goes like this: Our marriage wasn't what we wanted it to be, and at some point we had the affair...let's just put aside all the reasons for now. Ok, we have to make a choice to stay in our marriage or leave. We chose to stay and try to work things out. But our marriage is still not where we want it to be. meanwhile we are still "reeling" from the feelings the affair brought out in us, and so it feels like we lost more than we gained by the choice we made.
It's scary....we know we can't go back to the way things were in our marriage, and we really don't want to because we weren't happy. It feels like we made a REALLY BIG sacrifice by choosing to stay in the marriage and we wonder when, if ever, it will be good again! When you are in withdrawal, you can only see what you've lost.

That is what she is going through. I know that may not be very helpful to you at this point in your journey....but rest assured, there are others who have been there and gotten through it. Others are still struggling. Really what we are all doing is learning as we go.

Time and distance from the OM goes a LONG way toward helping her get through this. The other thing is how you respond to her, and for that advice I would let Recovering H help you. I would say for them and you!), it's a bit like walking a tightrope.....a very delicate balancing act.

Keep posting, and let your wife know we are here for her, too!

Onlywords

Wow:
You guys must have ESPN, you're reading my mind. This is precisely what my W and I are going through. When I ask my wife what I can do for her to help, she says, I don't know
When I ask my wife what she needs... I don't know.
When I ask my wife about doing the things we've been reading about... she responds ambivalently, like she just doesn't care.
She says she loves me. She says she wants it to work, but how do you get from the point from, "I want it to work" to "I'll step out and do what it takes for it to work!"????

I told her I think she's waiting on a feeling to act. The feeling will come after you act. But, she lost in this malaise of confusion. I want my wife back.

RWS,
<blockquote>quote:<hr />I told her I think she's waiting on a feeling to act. The feeling will come after you act. <hr /></blockquote>It's funny you should say this...Recovering H and I were just talking about that! It's getting "spooky" in here) I was thinking about how your THOUGHTS are what control your feelings, and in order to change how you feel, you change your thoughts. Of course that's easier said than done. There's another principle in Behavioral psychology that basically says that if you want to feel, happy, for instance, then you ACT happy..ie, smile, laugh, etc. It will feel fake, yes, at first. But lo and behold, if you keep doing that, you will actually start to BE happy. I know it works, I've tried it!
I knew hubby needed some kind of reassurance, response, crumb, from me....so I PRETENDED to be loving and reassuring and strong. I know you all want the genuine thing, the real McCoy....and funny thing was that I started to FEEL loving and reassuring and strong.

It's kinda funny now to think about, but that was Recovering H's big gripe about me...every response I gave him was "I don't know".

Onlywords

[ July 28, 2004, 05:38 AM: Message edited by: Broken Vessell ]

Broken Vessel -

Glad you did something nice for your husband today. That is a start.

I'm happy that everyone is still here. It is nice not to have to do this alone.

I was just looking on the home page, and came across an article by Dr. Harley about restoring the marriage. Here it is. I hope it might help some struggling couples.

Most affairs don't end a marriage. But unless the marital problems that helped create the affair are resolved, an affair can sure make a marriage a lot worse than it was before the affair. The letters C.W. and S.C wrote are proof of that.

Still, after an affair is over, a couple has a window of opportunity to fix what was wrong in a way that can make their marriage better than it ever was. But one of the biggest obstacles to such a recovery is the emotional reactions left over from the affair.

Ideally, as I discussed in Part 2 of this series, an unfaithful spouse should choose to permanently separate from a lover and return to his or her spouse to rebuild the marriage. In that situation, after a period of withdrawal, both spouses usually attack the task of marriage rebuilding with a remarkable zeal. Granted, there are scars, but the fact that the unfaithful spouse was willing to abandon the lover to save the marriage is usually viewed as an appropriate first payment toward just compensation. Especially if there is willingness to make the other payments, to overcome Love Busters, do a better job meeting the victimized spouse's emotional needs, and create a more integrated lifestyle.

But because most affairs do not end with a choice to permanently separate from a lover, the recovery stage does not usually begin with much zeal. Instead, it begins with bitterness. If the affair dies a natural death (the spouse and lover simply drift away, or the lover ends it), the unfaithful spouse wakes up to find himself or herself still married, but married to a spouse who is very upset about everything that happened. How does one go about getting that kind of marriage restored?

It's very common for the spouse having the affair to feel unremorseful. And it's common for the victimized spouse to feel that it wasn't his or her fault, either. So when an affair has ended, and a couple is ready to rebuild their relationship, neither wants to take responsibility. They both look at each other as having been very selfish, and they look at themselves as having gone the extra mile, with nothing to show for it. Why apologize for something that was the other person's fault?

There is a sense in which an apology is not really necessary. The only thing that's necessary is for the couple to take appropriate steps to rebuild their relationship. But an apology can certainly make taking those steps much easier.

S.C.'s wife is not sorry she had an affair. In fact she feels that it did her some good. She "finally did something for herself." That sure sounds like her Taker, doesn't it (if you don't know what a "Taker" is, be sure to read "The Giver and the Taker" in my Basic Concepts). Her Taker is only concerned about her happiness, and not the least bit concerned about S.C.'s happiness. It was her Taker that was doing the talking for her, telling S.C. that he had it coming, after what he had put her through with all of his drinking.

Taker's don't ever apologize. But they demand it of others. It was S.C.'s Taker that wanted an apology from his wife. It remembered that S.C.'s Giver had once told his wife he was sorry for his neglect of her while he was drinking, and now it was time for his wife to apologize for her offense. But at this point in their relationship, neither of their Givers are anywhere to be found, so there is little hope for repentance.

But now that the affair is over, does it do S.C. any good to try to pry an apology out of his wife? At this point, her feelings for S.C. are not the best, and any effort on his part to try to make her feel guilty will do nothing but withdraw more love units from an already bankrupt Love Bank. His best approach is to ignore the past, and focus on what he can do to start depositing love units. The more love units he deposits, the more her Taker will drop back and allow her Giver some room to maneuver. In fact, if her Giver shows up, she may surprise S.C. with an apology for the affair without him even asking for one.

S.C.'s best course of action is to create the best marriage possible by learning how to meet his wife's emotional needs, overcome Love Busters and create a unified lifestyle where neither of them would have second secret lives that can grow into affairs.

But in spite of what I've just said, I encourage each spouse, if possible, to override their Takers' instincts and apologize to the other anyway. The unfaithful spouse should apologize for having betrayed a valuable trust, for having hurt in the worst way possible the very one he or she promised to love and cherish. The victimized spouse should also apologize for having failed to meet important emotional needs that the unfaithful spouse had been promised at the time of marriage.

Why do I encourage an apology when the Takers are adamantly opposed to offering them? Because an apology is really in order (they did, in fact, hurt each other), and it also helps settle down the Takers, as long as they both apologize. S.C.'s wife knows that she did the wrong thing when she had an affair. It's her defensive Taker that will not let her apologize. But if she could let her defenses down for one moment and honesty express her Giver's regret for what she had done, it would give S.C. some encouragement.

But once apologies are made, a couple should move on to the business of rebuilding their relationship, and not dwell on the mistakes of their past. As much as you may want to talk about the affair or about any other mistake made, remember that every conversation on those subjects withdraw love units. And a Love Bank must first be overflowing with love units before you are in a position to waste any.

In C.W.'s case, he is close to having traversed the first two stages of marital recovery after an affair. He has completed the first stage by being completely separated from his lover, and he is near the end of the second stage where he is coming to the end of withdrawal from his dependence on her. Granted, he is still depressed, but part of his depression comes from living alone, and having a feeling of hopelessness trying to get his wife's cooperation to restore their marriage.

I think that both couples are ready for the third stage of marital recovery after an affair: Rebuilding their relationships. They all seem to be willing to negotiate, and are willing to let their spouses meet their emotional needs. That means they are no longer in the state of emotional withdrawal and are firmly fixed in the state of emotional conflict (if you do not understand the terms "withdrawal" and "conflict" see "Negotiating in the Three States of Marriage"). So any attempt to make their spouses happy is likely to have its desired effect -- love units will be deposited.

These two marriages are now in a position to be restored if the spouses take the correct steps. In some ways, both couples now have the same opportunity to solve their marital problems as they did before the affairs took place. And if they had done it then, they would have avoided all of the pain that the affairs inflicted on them. They are now where most bad marriages are, burdened by Love Busters and the failure to meet important emotional needs. So if they can toss off those burdens, they will not only create the marriage they need, but also eliminate the risk of another affair.

The steps these couples should take to restore their marriages are described in my book, Fall in Love, Stay in Love. It explains how couples can identify and overcome the Love Busters, anger, disrespect and demands. It also shows couples how to meet each other's emotional needs. But most importantly, it teaches couples how to create compatibility -- how to create an integrated lifestyle where dishonesty and secret second lives are eliminated.

The solution to most marital problems requires spouses to override their Taker's instincts. Doing what you feel like doing works great when you are in love, because the Giver calls the shots. But when you are not in love, and your Taker is in charge, your instincts will make matters much worse. The Taker wants you to get angry, be disrespectful and make demands. All of those Love Busters withdraw love units and also create defenses that make depositing new ones almost impossible.

Both C.W. and S.C. find their spouse's Love Busters coming between them and the restoration of love. But I'm sure that both of them are dishing them out as well.

So the first step in the restoration of marriage after an affair is to lay down the weapons. Each spouse must make a concerted effort to avoid anger, disrespect or demands at all costs. Every time they are together, they must do whatever it takes to make the relationship safe for each other.

Once they can guarantee each other safety, by protecting each other from Love Busters, they are ready to learn to meet each other's emotional needs. But they will have to learn to negotiate all of these issues with the Policy of Joint Agreement in mind. They must begin by guaranteeing each other that the cost of a great marriage will not require personal sacrifice. It will only require a willingness not to do anything that would hurt each other. They must understand that everything they will be doing in the future must take each other's feelings into account, and safety will be the guiding rule from now on.

With personal safety as the condition for negotiation, and enthusiastic mutual agreement as the goal, a couple is ready to rebuild. But that environment of safety may take a while to create. It may be the very first skill that they will need to learn before they can negotiate satisfactory.

Getting beyond this first step -- setting a safe stage for negotiating -- may take some careful thought and planning, but one thing is for sure, negotiations that are not safe or pleasant will not give you a solution to your problem.

The second step for successful negotiation is to present the conflict to each other with each spouse trying to understand and respect the other's perspective. C.W. has a need for recreational companionship. That need may have been partially responsible for his affair, and he would like his wife to meet that need so he will not be tempted in the future. But his wife feels that their time should be spent together as a family, and if he wants to be with her, he must also include their daughters. They must both understand and respect each other's feelings about this issue if they expect to resolve it.

The third step is to brainstorm without criticizing each other's tentative solutions to the problem. They should write them all down and give themselves a chance to think about them without dismissing any of them right away.

The fourth step is to choose the solution that they both feel enthusiastic about following. In most conflicts, one of the solutions will jump out as the right one, especially if both Learn More!

"Surviving an Affair"
spouses have given themselves some time to think about the entire list and about their conflicting perspectives on the problem. If no solution meets the criterion for "enthusiastic agreement, keep brainstorming.

The purpose of these four steps is to solve marital conflicts in a way that deposits love units, and avoids withdrawing them. In other words, the goal is for you and your spouse to be in love with each other. That goal is worth more than any specific decision you will make. But, you will discover, if you keep that goal in mind, your decisions will be incredibly wise because they will have the combined wisdom of both you and your spouse. That's the secret to martial reconciliation and compatibility -- to be able to resolve conflicts together in a way that meets each other's emotional needs and accommodates each other's feelings.

One final thought: How much time should be spent each week trying to reconcile? My advice is to spend as much time with each other as you can. A vacation away from friends and children is ideal because it gives you an opportunity to give each other much needed undivided attention. But remember, consistency is also important. You can't expect a three weeks vacation followed by abandonment to lead to reconciliation. So, I suggest that you spend a minimum of 15 hours each week with each other, regardless of how much time you spend in other weeks. And the time should be spent without friends, family or children, learning to meet each other's most important emotional needs.

[ July 28, 2004, 05:39 AM: Message edited by: Broken Vessell ]

broken vessel - I hope it helps to read about the stages. You ladies are the experts in this, and it is a long, hard and lonely road.

But many marriages come out much better than before, and that is my wish for you.

Keep posting your feelings. That is what helps me.

Broken Vessel: I do believe it's very hard what we are all going through. For you FWW out here, withdrawal is hard too.

onlywords said:
I knew hubby needed some kind of reassurance, response, crumb, from me....so I PRETENDED to be loving and reassuring and strong. I know you all want the genuine thing, the real McCoy....and funny thing was that I started to FEEL loving and reassuring and strong.

BrokenVessel said:
Wow. Do you think it will work for me. I actually dont have to really feel the things before I do them, then overtime they will become real?

I believe that the more you do this, the more likely that those feelings will start to come back. If you continue to put your efforts in this area, they can then 'grow' into more than they were before. But for that to happen your H will have to participate as well. He may have to open up to you like he never has before in your marriage. I believe I saw somewhere that you posted that you never had passion in your marriage, not like what you ever had with the A. For that to happen, both you and your H will have to risk your feelings like never before. It all starts with talking to each other and working with each other.

But back to your question, yes, I believe that it can. And if you've seen some of the other BS/husbands here and the pain they are going through, could your H be going through this also? Would he accept a 'crumb' from you. I bet that he would.

Best of luck and God Bless! Keep us posted. We love you,
RH

[ July 28, 2004, 05:40 AM: Message edited by: Broken Vessell ]

If my wife were to start posting here do you think it would help? We are sort of in recovery, I guess... it seems like it changes all the time. Some good days some bad. She just has so many fears that it won't work out, or that things can never be normal again, that she won't really step out there and work to make it happen. She show signs sometimes that she wants to, but I think the fears get the best of her.

Dr. Gary Chapman in "The 5 Love Languages" says that the two kinds of people that have a harder time responding to filling their love tanks by their spouses are as follows.
1. Those whose love tanks are always full and they don't know really what made them that way, much less what will keep them full
2. Those whose love tanks have been empty for a long time and they don't remember what it takes to fill it again.

Howver he goes on to say, eventually if they work at it they can go on to recover by having their spouses be the ones to fill their tanks again.
And then the feelings of love return! AFTER THE ACTION, THEN COMES THE FEELINGS. I think many get it backwards. They want the feelings of love to come back and then they will start working on the M. It cannot happen that way!!!

Ladies, what are your thoughts on having my W post in here? I want it to be a positive thing for her that she would gain understanding and help for her here.

BV,

I do not think I can handle being here much, but your post really got to me. I am going to risk some 2x4s in my response, but I just can’t do this alone.

Last night H let me talk to him about some pretty horrible feelings to do with OM. They are all mixed up and confused as you may know. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> I really appreciated it and was surprised how much it helped.

It all had to do with rejection. There is a lot of pain associated with how I ended it and how OM responded. I have to get over this.

It is a real stumbling block. He did not see it coming the way I ended it. I know it made him angry because I had just convinced him I wanted to keep it going. I had ended it three times by then. He definitely saw the most “unstable” side of me. I had a huge war going on inside. I was never just committed to having this A. It was a huge war constantly. The OM got to see this first hand. By the end, and last call, I think he might have decided I was a little looney.

As silly as it sounds, the rejection really hurts. I may have ended it, but his reaction really tore me up. Like unfinished business. I know that is all okay. I know I am supposed to not care what he thinks. I have not been able to do that. Period.

You said:

I am trying to now work through the second stage of 'withdrawal'. I would say although it has been 16 weeks since last contact, my feelings for OM still, make me not moving on very far in the second stage of withdrawal.

Therefore I am still not reaching the third stage of 'recovery' yet and wanting 'intimacy' with H. (See my thread on BV with dramatic exit...)

The third stage is what I am aiming for, but I am still lost in some fog and withdrawal at the moment, and missing contact with OM.

It has been four weeks since I last saw OM. However, he drove by last night and stared right at me. This is not helping me. I don't even feel like I am having NC.

Since last night, it has been all out war here in my home. From both of us. Not in front of the children, but I know they sense it. We are fighting about everything. I just want to be alone. I want space. I have lost the right to have that. This depression feels all-consuming. I have no desire for any of the things I normally get joy doing. For anyone or anything.

I have been here, but my feelings have not yet come around. I feel guilty about this. Horribly. Now, this morning, I just let my H have it back. Lots of LBing to go around. This is very wrong, I am just talking when I say this….

I am wanting less and less to be in this. I will stay, but my resolve is fading. God help me not to be so selfish! Ugh. I hate how I am right now! I have no good feelings for H except I don’t want to be actively hurting him.

BV, you said:

I guess today I am totally ‘frustrated’ with myself for how I am feeling. You know, because I have shared before how I am bordering on the second stage of ‘no contact’. I feel so bad with this. I almost can’t bear it. I am still so ‘messed and fogged’ up. My head knows the truth, but my heart pulls me to want contact and to ask him ‘why’ and ‘did you really care?’

I am searching for something within me to MAKE me understand why I can’t feel any feelings for my poor H in all this..I am so sorry. Please forgive me. It must hurt to hear a FWW speaking like this.

Please understand I do not want to tell you “Yeah, go ahead BV. This is the way to feel and act. Follow your heart.” Not at all. But BV, I feel the same way. I am losing ground today. I have no desire to continue fighting today. I just want time. Is that wrong? Maybe. He is pushing me away, but I am pushing him away too. We are both hurting each other.

I have come to realize I still have a lot of letting go in my heart left to do with OM. Regardless of what he really “is”, my memories scream at me. Some of them(not all) are the only happy memories I have for a very long time. Okay! I know, I know. Fantasy, not reality. But the pull is there. The selfishness is raging.

I am not a complete fool, although my H would beg to differ right now. My mind knows better. I know the pain the OM caused me. This spot with H and I is really painful. I will stay in it, but somehow I cannot be what he wants now. In fact, all I am doing is LBing the last 12 hours.

I know my H needs more, but , trust me, NC and getting this old situation from consuming my thoughts is a huge success! Forgive me, please! I don’t know what else to say.

The physical is also an issue like you BV. The main difference is I do not feel neutral. I am struggling horribly to just feel neutral. What is wrong? It is horrible to not have the correct physical feelings for H. It is a very big stumbling block. I feel very defective, and H is tired of it too.

I am so glad JL has been helping you with this BV. The book Pepperband keeps quoting from on that thread is on the top of my list to buy, along with “Tempted Woman.”

I am failing right now. I am not happy about it. I want to last this out, but I want to SCREAM please wait. Just hold on and let me breathe. PLEASE!

But I have a lot of selfishness that has to be crucified. I have been fighting for my “rights.” I am confessing this so I can begin to lay my “rights” down.

I enjoy your posts BV, onlywords, and others, because you often say what I wish I could. But you also have a positive outlook which I have got to get hold of right now!

Blessings,
Pam

RAP,
I know where you are right now....I was there, too, for a good solid three and a half months. I was also dealing with what I perceived as a "rejection" from OM...and as BV said, wondering if he really cared at all, or was he just using me? I felt used, abused, and made a fool of. I'm not asking for pity on that, because I did the same darn thing to my husband! But that doesn't make the pain go away.
Still some days I get that twinge, that sick feeling in my stomach when i think about OM.
I also know that in the "thick" of all that, you have your husband pushing and pushing and pushing, and it does NOTHING but drive you away even further. I agree that you need a break from it....my husband got upset with me when I would go about cleaning or reading or whatever as though nothing had happened. I kept telling him I NEED some time when I don't have to think about this! To him it looked like avoidance behavior, but it wasn't. Fortunately he came to understand that.
I know that they want us to show some sign of faith that it will work out. But they ALSO need to show some faith in us, too....that for now, all we can give them is that we are THERE and not with OM. I know it seems like an eternity when you go through this phase, but it WILL pass. If someone had told me that early on in my withdrawal, I would not have believed them.
I keep trying to think of what to say to help ease your pain. The problme is that I don't think you're quite ready to hear some things, and that is perfectly OK! That does NOT mean you are slow, or stupid, or stubborn, or selfish....NONE of the above!
Just for now, try not to judge yourself for these feelings. Don't even try to fight them! Give yourself permission to be sad, angry, confused....anything. The more you fight this, the more power you give it. You just add insult to injury on yourself when you feel bad for feeling bad!!!
Please don't stop posting and expressing your feelings no matter what they may be at any moment. All of us FWW's understand and we don't expect you to be positive. If I had started posting before I did, maybe then you would see I didn't always feel positive.
One thing I think we got from Om was a renewed sense of self-worth. We used to get that from our husbands. Now we get from neither one. But what I struggle with is knowing that I should not be trying to gain approval from anyone else. What good is a sense of self-worth that is only good as long as someone else approves?

BV, you wonder if the OM ever really cared. What would it mean to you if you got the answer? Let's just say that you knew for sure that he DID care? What would you do then? And if you found out he didn't care....wouldn't that really be a reflection on him and not you? What would you do with that information?

RWS.....I think your wife would benefit from reading this thread, even if she didn't want to post...but we would welcome her with open arms. I wouldn't try to force her....just maybe tell her it's helping YOU understand her better, and she may want to see too.
Good luck....

Onlywords

RWS - I would welcome your wife too. This is a great thread, with many completely honest postings. I think it would help her.

RAP - Could you try some anti-depressants? They would at least let you enjoy some things that you used to enjoy. They have really helped me.

onlywords,

Thank you for your reply. It means a lot. I understand everything you said.

I am just tired. I don't feel capable of "doing" anything right now. Mostly anything to do with "fixing" everything and everyone. Including myself.

One thing I think we got from Om was a renewed sense of self-worth. We used to get that from our husbands. Now we get from neither one. But what I struggle with is knowing that I should not be trying to gain approval from anyone else. What good is a sense of self-worth that is only good as long as someone else approves?

I agree with all of this. I can't even seem to believe I will ever get to where it doesn't matter who or who doesn't approve. That is a big goal of mine. Self-worth cannot be dependant on any person.

I want to get to where you are. Where there is only a twinge of all those negative feelings when thoughts of OM come. Right now it has taken on a life of its own. I will battle it down one day at a time.

Pam

[ July 28, 2004, 05:41 AM: Message edited by: Broken Vessell ]

Hope everyone is doing okay. Wow, there are some strong feelings coming out here. I think it is good to get them out.

I hope that those of you who are not on anti-depressants will get some. It is alright to feel a little bad, but not this crippling devastation. I think about you all and hope that the pain will soon end.

Dear everyone...

I have had a horrible day. Thoughts of the Om keep tormenting me today because his work is in the news due to a space exploration thing. I want this to end. I get so tired of the battles raging in my head. I know I need to keep fighting them, and I will continue to do so but I get so weak.

Thank you all for being here so I can vent. I wouldn't know what to do if I never found this place.

Thank you believer for your support. Seeings how you are on the other side of the fence your words are very special and your hope is a gift.

Okay, I can top all these sad stories. If I can tell it right.

I was out going to MY gym this evening. Mark knew where I was and knew he could call, drop in, whatever.

On the way there, I saw OM again. He was in a different car. The one he uses when he is up to something so he can "blend." He was going right where he used to take me.

I know he is either a sex addict or just keeps himself busy on the side. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

I knew this already, so why the pain? Do you know how hard it was not to follow him all the way there? I could not look that bad. But I do think he saw me.

What a tangled web we weave. Me included. I called Mark and told him because he needs to know. He desperately wanted to call OMS W.

OM would know I told, and he could still say I was crazy, blah, blah, blah.

I am crazy right now. I almost did follow him. How sane can I be?

Anyway, thought everyone might get a laugh from this. It is hard, but what better way to get over him, huh?

Blessings,
Pam

PS I still want to reveal to his wife, but we kind of want to be able to give evidence. I am also not sure I can take it with him so nearby.

runawaypot -

Well the marriagebuilders advice is to tell the OM's wife. Hopefully you will get strong enough to do that.

Strangely I can really have empathy for the WS and OP. I guess it is because I have talked to so many here. I didn't used to feel that way. But I have really changed since being here.

My WH's affair started very innocently. I was at work, and WH was off on a Friday. He took our dog for a walk, and went down the street. OW was sitting on her porch crying.

Her husband had just been sent to Iraq. My WH, being the kind person he is, stopped to comfort her. This continued behind my back for about a month. Then the affair started.

So I know how people can fall into this. The end result was that OW's husband came back from Iraq and found out he had no job, and no wife. She even left her 12 year old daughter (who is the most important thing in her life).

It is just very sad to me. I was very angry at first, but could see how it happened.

So the end result is 5 unhappy people, not to mention all of the rest of the families. I am not happy, OW's H is not happy, and their 12 year old daughter is really unhappy.

Although WH and OW seem to be happy, I know they are not. My WH goes back and forth, and says he feels unworthy and horrible. I don't know how OW feels, but it cannot be pleasant for her either.

So all around there are a lot of hurt people.

believer,

You are incredible. You have gone through so much, yet all you do is encourage others.

You are the "real deal" when it comes to loving with Christ-like love.

I do intend to tell OMs W. I know that doesn't sound good enough. The OM still seems to have so much of a mental hold on me, that I am wanting to get a little stronger before I have to go through more.

In fact, I don't stop thinking about his W. At least now I don't. She has every right to be informed. I hate what I have done, and I see what he will continue to do. She deserves to have a choice in this too.

I have to get to a better spot, then we will do it. Preferably out of the neighborhood! That may be a long shot for now.

Thank you again,
Pam

PS I am so sorry for what you have lost.

I wish I could do something to make it up to you. From one WS on behalf of your WH. Wow. Look at what this stuff really does.

I am so glad we have a God that does not leave us to wallow in the mud.

He will continue to restore you. I know he sees your beautiful giving heart.

To all of you. I think you can read my WH's story of how he and OW slipped, and find your own story there. Most did not mean for this to happen. But men being men, and women being women, it did happen.

So I hope that you all can forgive yourselves for being human. It happened, and it is over. I just hate for you to be so down on yourselves. You are great women. You are still here posting and working on things. Give yourselves credit.

chackler,

Hang in there. It looks like lots of tough days today.

I don't really have anything to help you, but you are not in this alone!

You have come so far. You can do this.

Big (((((((hug for chackler)))))))

Pam

believer,

I just noticed your comment on anti-depressants.

I have a family history of some serious depression. Relatives, mom, etc. Should have paid more attention to that a couple years back.

I started taking Wellbutrin XL right before H left for 10 months overseas. We both had struggled with the idea of medication, so I really needed them about 2 years ago.

It helped tremendously. That is what has been so scary. I am on the anti-depressant and feel soooooo down. I cannot imagine if I was not taking them. Honestly.

Anyway, I am fallin g asleep as I write. Guess I am still here.

Hmmm...nobody has killed me yet with a gigantic 4x4. At least not yet. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Pam

There are tons of posts here, and hardly any negative ones. I am still hoping that the administrators will have a forum for WS's.

Night night, sweet dreams.

Good night everyone! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

here are my late night thoughts.
H & I have these great friends.
we have shared so much in the 20
years together. the know of my A.
they have never experienced any
thing like this to know what to
even think-OK, fine. we distance.
she & I still talk-really surface
stuff. her H never calls my H to
ck & chat. so 1 night after her &
I talk, I think about it (my bad
week last) & call back, talk to him,
say I know you are weird about me &
what happened-but why are you not
calling H? yesterday-her & I go for
lunch, I ask, "so does your H hate
me for what I said?" she said he is
expecting apology before he talks to
you again. OH-OK-I need to apologize
for speaking my mind?! this is what
always gets me in trouble, I am
forward speaking-I say what I think.
I was sooo pi$$ed! it is the whole
thing of feeling judged-I have done a
great job of messing myself up-I
certainly dont need by friends doing
it for me! (ventvent)
new issue today-old friend-yes-a guy-
tells me things about OM-really
crappy things about his past with
women-I started crying. I was hurt-
really really hurt-then I just was so
angry with myself for EVER falling for
him. he lied a lot of lies. he talked
a lot of sweet. I dont think I ever
knew the real him-I knew I was always
too good for him-he said it to me
himself. I ask myself now-why, being
a strong woman do I let all these
people dump on me-I thought were my
friends-people I thought cared for me.
I am keeping my H at arms length. I
have not said much to him today.
yesterday after him & I discussing
friend situation we started on each
other-classic. 1 day at a time is
too much at times. I am just in a low
place-thanks for listening and maybe
understanding the late night ramblings
of a woman who now questions every
thing. where did I go so wrong-why did
I let him into my heart-he has ruined
my emotions. I want him to hurt as bad
as I do. I want to tell OMW-how do I
get her cell#? I am calling her.
I will go to bed now...
pal

[ July 28, 2004, 05:42 AM: Message edited by: Broken Vessell ]

Runawaypot: Just wanted to drop you a quick note on your post. I saw where you saw the OM today (or maybe it was yesterday) AND called your H. THIS IS PROGRESS! I hope you see it, and if you didn't I'm just pointing it out for you.

Just remember, baby steps. Good luck and keep walking through as you guys say <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

KAS: Actions before feelings. It seems so difficult after what you have gone through. Continue to read Dr. Harley's articles here on the website. Remember that he says to spend 15 hours a week (undivided attention) with your spouse. Are you doing that? If not, try to spend more time with him. Think of it not as spending time with your lover or husband, but just a good friend. Talk to him as you would a friend. Don't think of it that you have to wait for feelings of love to come back for him just to spend time with him. It can just be enjoying the simple things in life with him, your garden, etc. Things like that!

God Bless and take care,
RH <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Hello everyone. It is 6:30 AM here in California. Does that help you figure out the time difference? It is 9:30AM in New York.

It would be nice if we could all chat together without someone having to get up in the middle of the night (although I know many have sleepless nights).

I think it is great that everyone can post their feelings. That is the way to heal. It does no good to be driven off the board by anyone.

You are all good women. Otherwise you would not be going through all this pain. So pat yourselves on the back. And don't worry what friends or relatives say. They simply don't understand. Until it happens to you, there is just no way to comprehend.

"I want FEELINGS before I do any ACTIONS.. This is a seriously tremendous obstacle for me to overcome and re-adjust in my thinking."

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

If you think about what you said here as a potential guiding principle in your life... where might it lead you if applied to other relationships?

If you said this (feelings before actions) and tried to apply it to ~mothering your children~ .... would it seem reasonable to you?????

Haven't you ever felt NON-loving toward one of your kids.... but behaved lovingly none the less?

Sometimes you can take the guiding principle you've been struggling with, and apply it to a different situation, and then you can check out the validity of the idea.

Pep

[ July 02, 2004, 08:48 AM: Message edited by: Pepperband ]

"feelings before actions"

apply this to charity work....

??????

apply this to obedience to the Lord...

??????

apply this to respecting your parents...

??????

see.... take the essence what you struggle with and paste it onto other situations.... and ride it out to the conclusion most likely to make your life run smoothly and come up with the desired outcome.

Pep

Hi all. Just a quick note because it is a busy day.

BV,

I feel I need to clarify on my statement about not being "committed" to the A. That wasn't correct, I guess. I was committed because I bulldozed ahead to be with him. I tried to shut down the war within me to be with him. I was just never successful. I kept it up a long time, but the conviction got me. Also, I knew deep down who this man was, and it already was hurting me.

peaceandlove,

You said your xOM said he wasn't good enough for you.

That is part of my problem. Me self-esteem attatched to my OM. I felt approved of when he approved of me.

He is very well-loved and liked. Everyone knows him and he is respected. It is so sad to admit this, but that made me feel like I must be special if he thinks I am.

Now, it is easy to believe that I am nothing because he doesn't value me.

It is not the truth, but the enemy screams it, and I have believed this kind of lie in different ways all my life.

It is also hard because I want to reveal to his W, but because of his "status" just feel like I would get trashed. I don't know if I could take it. He is so skilled, and I know your pain for being "taken" by the OM. Lied, cajoled, stroked, whatever they did to make us believe them was well done. My heart goes out to you.

RH,

Thank you for your post. I also called H because I want him not to worry about the A starting up again. There are so many reasons for it not to, even if I wanted it.

I said last night that I thought my OM saw me. He did. It is kind of funny. He is doing damage control now.

He called me at 7:07a.m. That is when he leaves work. He never called me then. Ever.

He left a message....all sweet of course.

Gag. It all is so clear, but hurts so bad. I know he had to like me some when he was with me, that is just how he is. Emotional. But when I became a "problem" it was easy to move on.

Ouch.

Anyway, I have not told H about this call. He will flip. He will probably go confront him. I just want to ignore it. Change numbers, whatever.

I feel so worthless already that all it would do is embarrass me. OM is not calling to get back with me, he just doesn't want me angry so I tell or something.

If H called him and said something like "Don't ever call her again. I know what you did," I feel like OM would just think "she is really obsessed."

I willnot give him that pleasure, even if I am hurt.

So, I guess I have moved somewhat into anger. I still miss what I "felt" we had, but God is showing me what I need to see to help me move on.

Blessings to all of you,
Pam

To the WWs,

I am struggling mightily right now and I have a question for you all. From the posts that RAP has shared with me, I have gleaned two trends her. The general comment you make about starting your affair goes something like this:

I can now understand how it happened…
It was wrong, but this is how it happened…
I never thought I would do this, but this is how it happened…

So you all seem to feel that what you did was wrong, but you understand how you got there. Then there are a lot of comments about becoming the W your H deserves and they typically go:

I want to, but can’t seem to…
I’m not there yet…
I can’t do this…
I’m not over the OM…

My question to you is if you claim to understand how you GOT in the affair, how come you can’t see how to get BACK to your husband? It is the SAME WAY.

Which one of you met the OM and was committing adultery 15 minutes after meeting him? If you had a ONS, the emotional attachment would not be there and you wouldn’t be in this predicament. You ALL say it started out with emotional needs and emotional affair FIRST. Did you have immediate emotional attachment with the OM when you first met him? Probably not.

It is a process.

You met and interacted with him and it was positive, in a friendly comforting way. The OM was a nice guy.

You looked forward to your next meeting, after all it was platonic. You let the emotions go a little further this time.

This process iterated, emotions getting more attached each time. How far did you go each time? Probably until you were uncomfortable with the strength of the feelings. But each time, the “boundary” moved a little bit. You just stretched your “comfort boundary” a little more.

Eventually, the boundary moved so far that you could “allow” yourself to break your marriage vows and commit adultery. And you couldn’t come back easily. It is like the “comfort boundary” would SNAP you back from the recoil if you stopped.

The point is, it took this INTERACTION with the OM to move your boundary. If you saw him once and just daydreamed about him WITHOUT interacting, would it have led to the affair? No.

And now you are all posting here telling us how hurt you are by all this. Telling us how much you have to get over. Telling us how you want to be a wife your husband deserves. We (the BS) get it. We read on this board and we are not ignorant of our contributions. All of your BS seem to be understanding and forgiving of you. Occasionally there are some LBs going both ways, but I don’t get the sense that any of you have a H that does not want this to work.

Then you say the infamous “I can’t see how to get these feelings back for my husband.”

HYPOCRITES! You do it the SAME WAY.

There is pain and hardship between the two of you now, it will be tough. There was no pain between you and the OM so it was easier, but the process is still the same.

Choose to interact with you husband in a small POSITIVE way. Do this until you are uncomfortable with how you are feeling then stop and take a break. I don’t think any of us (BS) would resent these baby steps, frankly I think we are all desperate for them.

Do it again, the boundary between you and your H will move.

Do it again and again and again, each time moving the boundary. Then one day you will wake up and be there.

I would like one of you to give me a good reason why this will not work. It is the way we are all made – no exceptions. It is why we say things like “practice makes perfect.”

I have a 4 yr old who is learning to swim. I have been mentoring him in this process of struggling until he is uncomfortable, taking a break, and getting back to it. Know what? He is making GREAT STRIDES in swimming. 2 weeks ago he wouldn’t go in the water without swimmies on and would not go in the pool where he could not stand. Yesterday, he swam to the bottom of the pool and picked something off the bottom. I have worked with him and kept the lessons positive. I have accomplished this in 4 lessons over 2 weeks.

My 4 yr old also plays video games. He likes to play the games his older brothers do, but they are too hard for him. He follows the same process, but has no one by his side to keep it positive. He doesn’t stop until his frustration mounts – very negative results. He is getting better, but the process is painful and slower. He pushes beyond where he is comfortable.

In both cased, he is making PROGRESS. Have a final goal in mind – the other side of the river. Set you mind on the first stepping stone to get to that goal, AND STEP ON IT. This works in every situation I have EVER encountered. It is just the learning process that God has wired in to all of us.

When you say things like “I just can’t” or “I don’t think I can” you are CURSING yourselves for failure. If in your mind, you don’t think you can step all the way to the other side of the river, stop worrying about the other side and look to the first stepping stone. If there is not one there PICK ONE UP ON THE SIDE OF THE RIVER YOU ARE ON AND TOSS IT IN THE WATER. Take steps you are comfortable with and be pleased with that. You have loving Hs on the other side who will help you find the stones. We don’t want you to fall in, we want you to come across this thing so we can continue on our journey together.

If you are saying that the feelings for the OM must go away first, I think that is a load of bunk. BEFORE your affair, you had stronger feelings for your family. Maybe not for your Hs, but for your family. The OM was a small piece that grew and pushed the larger pieces away, you family, your husband, your reputation, your relationship with God. You put your attention on the small piece, the OM, and it grew bigger than the others. But the other pieces were still there. And how easy it became to lose yourself to the OM. Why wouldn’t it? That is where your effort was going.

The ONLY difference is the bad feelings. There were no BAD feelings between you and the OM so it was easier to till that soil. There are now BAD feelings between you and your H. Some were there already before the A from your marital history based on things both of you did. Some big ones are there now because of the A. That just means that it will be harder to cross back to the right side of the river than it was to get to the wrong side. But guess what, on the return trip you have someone who loves you, and wants you to succeed. This person doesn’t want you to get your feet wet and will help you find the stones. On the trip to the OM, he didn’t really care if you fell in and were washed away. He would just start calling another woman across. It may feel harder to cross back, but with someone looking out for you on the other side, it is truly LESS RISKY to you. In truth, your H will probably step out into the river and meet you half way. Did the OM do that? No. He let you journey alone to his side. And when you were emotionally safely across, he made his move.

So your self-esteem and self-worth isn’t there. Well, your worth to God is a gift of grace and it IS there. You choose to accept it or not. Your self-worth, you have to earn that for yourself. Cross the river then tell me you don’t feel good about yourself. Even make progress across the river and feel your self worth increase. Win a spiritual battle, and bask in your victory and cultivate your self-worth. Have you ever talked to a fat woman losing weight? They are still really fat, but very happy with themselves because they are losing weight. There can be a 265 lb woman who starts losing weight and drops to 255 lbs. A 10 lb difference you can’t even see on her, why should she be so happy? She’s not different in any noticeable way, but she is MAKING PROGRESS.

If you need help finding some stepping stones, here are a few:
- A longing thought pops in to your head about the OM. Occupy your mind with something else, do a chore, read, veg-out with the TV.
- Sit by your H and hold his hand.
- Start to develop cascade thoughts: You see the OM vehicle and think “I miss what we had”. DON’T STOP THERE. Then think “But it was wrong and a lie of the enemy.” Soon, you will see his car and skip the middle thought.
- Let your H know you appreciate what he is doing for you. I don’t know about the rest of you, but RAP tells you in posts how much she appreciates me much more than she actually tells me. My guess is you do the same. “I am really blessed because of what you are doing for me” would work WONDERS for us, the BS. Is that really that hard to say?

Soon you will find that the shameful side of the river you were on is a distant memory.

I’m not saying it will be easy. It is hard for us, the BS, also. Don’t believe me? The evidence is right there when WE LB. The difference is we did not compromise our self worth in the affair. I think because of that, we have an easier time looking at the positive side. I think most of you WW are thinking how can that (our positive outlook) be real after what I have done. It also seems like most of you “knew” the A wasn’t real, and you did that. It just takes faith, belief that good WILL come of it. Do you want to know where your reassurance will come from? It will come from the reaction we have when you start moving towards us again.

If you are saying you just can’t face the pain, I would say that we can face whatever pain we HAVE to face. I cannot imagine childbirth, you faced that pain. You also had to. Are we (the BS) enabling you by being so forgiving? Is it making you think you DON’T have to face the pain you caused in our M? I would really like that question answered.

If you are still saying “I just can’t” you might as well say “I quit.” If you really think you “can’t,” you need to ask yourself is that REALLY it, or is it hard and you just don’t want to?

NCWalker

PS – This is a source of tension between me and RAP. I would appreciate any response to this of where I might not have this right.

PPS - I don't lurk on this thread. I have copied this over to this thread NCWalker - hope this helps. for your responses there.

[ July 02, 2004, 10:48 AM: Message edited by: ncwalker ]

[ July 02, 2004, 03:51 PM: Message edited by: runawaypot ]

This could be page out of my own M book right now. These are the very conversations my W and I are having. I need so much more than she is willing to give. The answer to almost any question I ask is, "I don't know." When that's all I hear, how in the world are we going to able to work on our M. If I take a care into the mechanic to fix a problem, the first question they ask is, "What's the car doing, or what's the problem?" If I just said "I don't know," they would persist until they found something out. They have to know the problem before they can fix it for Pete's sake.

Last night my W and I got into it again over this same issue. Only I've learned to back off and stop intead of launching through the roof.
I'm not asking this stuff of her because I know that it irritates her, I'm asking because I'm dying inside!!!!!!!

Maybe I'm wrong about this, but, sometimes it just feels like the reasoning for not really acting to make things better is absolute and complete selfishness. It's all about you and your feelings. Forget the family, forget the husband, forget the marrriage, forget your reputation, forget the good times, forget the years of being committed to each other....... I can't do this. Yes You Can! You just have to want to and then you just do it in faith and I believe most BH would be there to help.

Sometimes I feel like my W has built a wall that only she lives within. She won't let me in there. When things get uncomfortable she retreats within it's safe confines. She does what she wants and then, when it gets too scary she runs back to the fort. All I want is to know my wife again, to be intimate with her again. For us to work TOGETHER on making this thing better than it ever was in the past.

Does anyone here have the book "Torn Asunder"? It has a great section on the message of the affair. I gave book to my WH and he has not given it back.

But I distinctly remember that sometimes the WS does not know what was wrong with the marriage.

[ July 28, 2004, 05:43 AM: Message edited by: Broken Vessell ]

I adore you BV. You truly are a wonderful woman. Thank you for putting up with me and where I am at.

We will come out together and be the Proverbs 31 woman. Hopefully I will begin to do this before I am 70 years old. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Blessings,
Pam

[ July 28, 2004, 05:44 AM: Message edited by: Broken Vessell ]

Believer -

We have the book...I will look up that section later this evening and get back to you, ok? Was it you that asked me this before? I had forgotten, I'm sorry!

Pepperband,

You are right on the money. I apply this technique to myself all the time...works wonders!

I love you!

RAP - "Everything is gonna be ok"....repeat 50 times each day.

Did you consider maybe trying a different AD?

Julie

[ July 28, 2004, 05:49 AM: Message edited by: Broken Vessell ]

[ July 28, 2004, 05:50 AM: Message edited by: Broken Vessell ]

Hi BV. Just a quick note to say I got your post.

I know you understand. I liked how you talked about your children. It is so true that we act before we feel with them. Maybe that is where we are at in our Ms. It is just hard to acknowledge and then do it.

About the call, I did not handle it well. This has to stop. I allow his presence, even his voice to make me feel horrible about myself. I feel like I have to get away.

I am going to pray hard about this. Would love to move. I have to get past OM so I really can focus on H.

My H might be angry, but it is not directed at you. He is just hurt, and he is dealing with it in the same way we are. Venting.

I am sorry if he vented at you. He is frustrated with me. I do tend to retreat into a shell, especially when I expect anger. I have to admit the idea of getting anger in return of something I try to do nice, makes me retreat.

I have to get stronger, because this will be hard. It takes risk. I haven't risked much with H at all lately. I am glad you are there. I am glad I don't really have to explain. You know. Thanks.

The drinking....well...haven't yet today. It has been a crutch for sure. Not sure I have a problem, just don't like the stabbing pain and fear.

onlywords,

Your kindness and patience means a lot. I know I am not where I need to be. I am scared. I have let that control me lately. Not making much sense. Must go. Thank you for your help. Please keep posting. I need your insight. It almost feels like a big sister. Thanks.

Blessings,
Pam

[ July 28, 2004, 05:51 AM: Message edited by: Broken Vessell ]

Broken Vessel - Put the plug in the jug. It will not help you. You are doing very well with this.

Only Words - It would be great if you can find that section of the book. It is called "The message of the affair", and is rather short. But it is absolutely necessary to understand the message, both for WS and BS.

The message is something you were unable to vocalize to your spouse, but nonetheless the feelings were there.

RAP - I hope you will hang in there. I think it would be better if you and H didn't read each other posts just yet. You will not be able to express your true feelings, and he will be too hurt.

Believer: Onlywords found this. Is this the part you were looking for?

"Caution to BS- Sometimes you may think that the WS is fabricating reason for their behavior & dreaming up deficits in the marriage, but please understand that their feelings of guilt and failure are often forcing them to highlight each & every flaw. Instead of dismissing such a list, try to find a major theme or two emerging from the scattershot items. Beware of being overly defensive on your part. (make a list of statements.)..."

If this isn't the part you were talking about, let me know and maybe I could just try to scan and email the page. Hope that helps!

RH

Recovering H - No that is not the part. There is a whole section about "the message of the A". It is something the WS could not tell the BS. Like " I feel powerless", "My needs are not being met", and on and on.

I've been away for a few weeks, and have only just been catching up on this thread.

WWs, I feel so bad for you! It literally pains me to see the turmoil and struggle, and to see the heartbreak.

My WW went through the same turmoil. Sadly, after 16 months of the emotional vacuum, I found my own feelings extinguished. I guess my love was finite, too.

At the beginning of June, WW came to me having had her epiphany. She had rediscovered her love for me and was now ready to work on "us", but MY heart wasn't in it. It took too much of me to be excluded from her heart for so long. Not just the time since d-day, but the months before.

I admire your H for the depth of their love for you and their patience. I truly hope they are not as shallow as I am, and when you do finally come around, they're still there for you.

Hi Uphill. You may have seen some of the exchanges between my H and I. He is NCWalker. We have had a hard time lately. I have been that "emotional vacuum" you speak of.

Are you saying you are now going to divorce? Or are you just feeling drained?

I am so sorry. Please excuse me because I am so tired I can barely see straight. But I wanted to respond.

I hate seeing that you are where you are emotionally. It is not fair what you BSs go through, I know. I am glad she came around.

Are you sure it is too late? I really hope not. Can you give more info?

Glad you are here, and please keep posting. It might help you where you are so empty.

Blessings,
Pam

I am here again tonite.
my day is busy with my
summer classes to chat-
so I am nite person. It
seems we are all doing
the best we can with what
we are capable of. I know
we can expect too much too
soon. it just takes time-
lots of it-for me & for H.
I wish I could hug all of
you gals & we could laugh
& cry together. I told my
H of friend & I getting
together at lake to talk.
He said it does not bother
him. Friend is a neighbor
of ours & classmate of mine.
H doesnt want me to hide-
he likes it when I tell
him about my day-but I am so
cautious anymore about my
encounters with men. I
dont like feeling that way.
my "hug" for all of you
tonite.......
"the gift of love refuses
to label or limit others.
it inspires and encourages
and lifts others, whether we
feel like it or not. Instead
of controlling and dominating
a spouse, love finds ways to
see the good and bring out the
best in spite of the circum-
stances. this may sound un-
realistic. it is, to those who
have not experienced it. to
christians however, it is a
reflection of God's love."

PAL,

That was beautiful. I actually need to apply it a little bit mentally to the xOM. I am at a point where I have to choose to not become bitter.

I am off to bed. My eyes are crossing.

Have a great night, and I always look forward to your posts.

Pam

thanks rap & good nite to you.
have a great & fun weekend-I
will chat soon....
a thought to share....
perhaps, if we walk with God
our sense of wonder is untouched,
we retain our joy at being simply
who we are, faulted, and flawed,
but God's. perhaps if we walk with
God, our lives are truly nothing
but prayer.

I know us BS keep busting in on this thread, but I've been lurking in here to try to gain a little understading in this enigma of fog and confusion. I can't for the life of me understand it!!!!! Why am I reaping the hell for the A that I didn't have???? The aftermath goes on and on and on. BV said:
<blockquote>quote:<hr /> It is not fair what you BSs go through, I know. <hr /></blockquote>Tell me about it! I WANT TO TALK TO MY WIFE, BUT SHE WILLLLLLL NOTTTTT TALKKKK TO MEEEE!!!!!!!! WHY???? When I say talk I don't mean about the weather she'll talk about that; or the car, or the kids, or the job! No, I want to talk about us, make some ground for us, press on for us, work on us! I feel like we're moving on after a huge wound and it's still bleeding and ooozing and we're just moving ahead with it bleeding on the floor. Maybe that's good enough for her, but not enough for me!

I was at the house today with the kids, played, cleaned, cooked an awesome supper of baked fish, steamed vegetables and potatos and onions with a dessert. As soon as she came through the door all she had to do was sit down and eat. I even did the dishes while she ran out to go to the store for something. (Meeting needs, meeting needs, meeting needs.....) All in the freakin' hope that maybe, just maybe I could get some kind of need of mine met tonight. We go to bed and I ask if we can talk, she gets all ambivalent and aloof. I can feel my blood boil, teeth grind.... I just get up and go to the pc. At least I can do that now. No more LB for me... But, why not? So she won't turn away from me, oh, but wait, she already is. I have become the most need meetingist fool on the stinkin' planet all for the hope of her turning around and just bursting open and spilling her guts out one day. Fall into my arms and things start to get somewhat normal. Well, I'm beginning to think that is just a dream that I will never realize now. I feel like I'm the only one pulling on this yoke. Marriage is a yoke made for two, what if only one is pulling? You go in circles!!!!!!!!

OOOOOOHHHHH God, help me!

Why do I deserve this treatment?

I'm sorry for the rant. I thought if I shared this in this thread someone could shed some little bit of light on this very very dark subject. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

I feel like I'm the only one pulling on this yoke. Marriage is a yoke made for two, what if only one is pulling? You go in circles!!!!!!!!

spinning wheels and going around in circles will only get you nowhere fast... before you run out of fuel.........Uphills post is a very good indicater of that. Good luck on your personal recovery Uphill.

Give a little RAP...Your worth it, your husband is worth it and your marriage is worth it.And DAMIT go give your kids a hug!!!

--------------------------------------------------

Slumber in peace Little Man..April 1 1994-29 June 2004

[ July 03, 2004, 12:28 AM: Message edited by: madmax ]

[ July 28, 2004, 05:52 AM: Message edited by: Broken Vessell ]

Hi...Here is what I found in the chapter on the Message of the Affair in Torn Asunder:

Most messages contain a combination of the following components:

"I'm feeling alone and afraid that you are going to leave me. Nobody in my life has ever stayed around for me to lean on, and I'm sure you won't either."

"I feel like a little child inside, but I'm afraid it wouldn't be appropriate to act that way in your presence."

"I have this secret______that I want to share wiith you, but I'm afraid you will make fun of me or try to change me."

"I have had a number of experiences lately which, if I shared with you, I fear would cause you to respect me less."

"I know I am increasingly unhappy, but I don't know how to change, and I'm afraid of how it will turn out."

"Something______is happening to me, and I need to talk about it, but I can't, so I think our marriage needs to change-we both need help in communicating the hard things to each other."

"Something_____is very important to me, but I don't want to act like a child, demanding my own way. I don't want to appear to be a beggar, either- that's humiliating."

"I think I'm figuring out more about each of us. The more you do____, the more I respond like____. That's been interesting to watch, and although I know you don't like me analyzing things, I think it's part of the answer. I wish I could share it with you."

"I miss all the ____ I used to receive in my family of origin, but I know you think that they are crazy, so I'll just keep this particular need to myself. I know you were not used to ___ in your family, and I guess I should be stisfied with that fact, but I'm not. I need to talk with you about this, but I'm scared."

Right before this section, Carder says,
"For whatever rason, [rior to straying, the infidel felt unable to express the message adequately with words. So he "told" the spouse via his actions. The infidel might have attempted to talk about it before the affair, but (1) he didn't have the emotional or communicative resources to identify what he really wanted to say, or (2) he wasn't even aware of what he was feeling inside."

He also says this"

THE SPOUSE'S REACTION TO THE NOW PUBLIC FACT OF INFIDELITY IS THE CRITICAL FACTOR DETERMINING WHICH WAY THE MARRIAGE WILL GO-BACK TOGETHER WITH PROPER PROCESSING OR INTO THE TRASH CAN.

I hope this was what you were looking for...if there is any more you'd like me to find, just say the word. Recovering H told me that there are about ten pages of this book that you can read on Amazon.com.

Broken Vessel,

This is what Pepperband said that I was referring to as a "technique":

<blockquote>quote:<hr />If you think about what you said here as a potential guiding principle in your life... where might it lead you if applied to other relationships?

If you said this (feelings before actions) and tried to apply it to ~mothering your children~ .... would it seem reasonable to you?????

Haven't you ever felt NON-loving toward one of your kids.... but behaved lovingly none the less?

Sometimes you can take the guiding principle you've been struggling with, and apply it to a different situation, and then you can check out the validity of the idea.

<hr /></blockquote>Julie

onlywords -

That is exactly what I was looking for. My WH read the book and said one of these applied to him, but did not tell me which one.

So I think it would be very, very helpful if everyone here looked at these "messages" and tried to see if any applied.

Because before you can fix the marriage, it helps to have some idea what was wrong BEFORE the affair.

Otherwise, the problem continues, but may be covered up with other pain-killing behaviors, such as drinking.

[ July 28, 2004, 05:53 AM: Message edited by: Broken Vessell ]

broken vessel - You still have some feelings for him. Did you go back because you wanted to see him, or are you "addicted" to him?

Did you get the wine out yet? I hope not. Stick with us, and we will help you through this.

[ July 28, 2004, 05:53 AM: Message edited by: Broken Vessell ]

<blockquote>quote:<hr />I saw pain and confusion in his face. Maybe he hates me for ‘telling’. I just need to speak to him.
<hr /></blockquote>No you don't. It won't make anything any easier or better. You won't get closure.

Keep yourself busy. One day at a time...Five minutes at a time if you have to.

Get throught the next five minutes
then the next five...

Just get through today...
Tomorrow is a new day, and we'll start over setting small goals

Broken Vessel -

What time is it there? It is almost 11:00AM here.

Have you thought about taking anti-depressants? They might help you feel better.

The wine can become a habit, and eases the pain, but I think in the long run, just drags it on.

Did you read the "message of the affair" post? Can you identify with any of them?

Well, last night was a very emotional one. I got up from bed to come and post and this morning I got up and read a couple of the responses to that post. The reason I came on this thread was to somehow get some perspective on something that, frankly, I do not understand. This confusion, fog and all the emotional labyrinth that my wife can't seem to make her way out of.

BV > I appreciate your thoughts and I respect them, but you were wrong on one count.
<blockquote>quote:<hr /> I would be EXACTLY THE SAME. I understand how she feels. You expected ‘physical’ payment for ‘practical things’ you did.

PAYMENT BY SEX if you put it bluntly. That is a huge turn off for someone in our situation. It makes us feel used and we ‘are under obligation’ to do something because of how much was done for us.
<hr /></blockquote>You were wrong about that. That is not what I was aiming for at all. I wanted to TALK to my wife. And, no, I don't do all of those things just for repayment. I do them because I love my family and my wife. But, when one has been doing 98% of everything for about 3 months and you don't see any thing in return..... well, it gets a little taxing.
If I was ranting.... and I was... last night, I'm sorry. I have no intention on coming against all FWWs, I don't have to live with all of them, just mine. I'm just trying to figure it out one day at a time without losing my will to live!

runningwithscissors -

Would your wife come here and post? It might be of some help.

When your wife withholds meeting your emotional needs, trust in the Lord, He will not let you down.

I like to read the story of Hosea and Gomer, the prophet of the broken hearted, but also the prophet of love and hope.

Okay. Here it goes.

BV,

I am sorry for what happened today. You are too tender right now, and yes(as I am) addicted to see this OM.

I know it did not help. More and more I understand the emphatic need for NC. I am talking to myself right now.

I cannot get into all of it right now, wouldn't know how to say it. But BV, I saw OM today and I was worse. I didn't really buy the addiction talk at first. But unfortunately, it is true. It seems exactly like an addiction. I need God's help. I am not as strong as I had hoped. My family IS the most important thing. I HAVE to move from here at some point.

RWS

Let me say "sorry" on behalf of your W. I don't know what to say. Keep posting. Keep venting. You deserve your own sanity. You need the support. Being where I am now emotionally, I cannot truly give advice. But I do know it is possible for your W to want to stay with you desperately, but to be having terrible withdrawal from this situation.

It is such a selfish thing, an A. I can't explain all of why I did it, except I thought I NEEDED that extra affection and approval. Was so wrong.

Having said that, please forgive me for what I say next. It says how selfish we(speaking of me) as WSs can be. When I got into the A, I felt I NEEDED it. (I am so sorry to say these things.) I thought I could have this little "fix" then go on with my merry life with H and have no repurcussions. I didn't want to run off with OM.

The horrible truth is the WS does not realize at all what they are getting into. They do not realize that they cannot just simply walk away without any damage done. I convinced myself I could.

When you do choose to separate from OM, the bombshell drops. Reality hits hard. You feel like you cannot survive this. I DID NOT expect those feelings. I DID NOT want to drag my husband through withdrawal.

I know how selfish this thinking process is. Believe me I do. But if I had seen ahead to what my family and myself would go through as a result of this, I would not have done it. I have learned.

You cannot play with fire and not get burned.

I was given a book called "Secrets of The Vine" by Bruce Wilkinson (the one who wrote "The Prayer of Jabez") for a Teacher Appreciation gift. This was right when I stopped the A.

A chapter in the book is all about the discipline of the Lord.

There are degrees of discipline from the Lord:

Degree 1: Rebuke-"My son, do not...be discouraged when you are rebuked by Him."

A rebuke is a verbal warning, kind of like the still small voice that warns us when we are entering dangerous territory.

I chose to ignore this. I remember it, though.

Degree 2: Chasten-"For whom the Lord loves, He chastens."

The book states that chasten is often interchangeable with discipline in the Bible. But further research shows that chastening is a more serious degree of discipline. It states what used to bring us joy would bring distress, frustration, etc.

I got here also, but did not recognize, or want to, the voice of the Lord in this.

Degree 3: Scourge-"And scourges every son whom He receives"

To quote the book: To scourge is to whip, to inflict punishment. It is the same word the Gospels use to describe what the Romans did to Jesus just before they crucified Him.

This is where I had to get to before I ended it. The result is the WS has to climb out of a pit of their own making.

I guess my point is, your W is in pain because of something she did to herself. She is not capable (or maybe not yet willing-or a little of both) of taking care of your pain. She is experiencing the result of her sin. As I am.

That is no excuse to not take steps toward healing the M. But I will be the first to admit that I can still barely handle my own feelings, much less my Hs. That is not fair. I know. I don't know what else to say except hold on.

Please don't let the anger consume you. It will scare her away. I do this myself. She will run as fast as she can. She already has guilt. She is probably missing Om(unfair yes).

Get the support you need. Sit back and try to wait. She does need to move toward you, but it may be a while.

Just don't give up.

I know I have rambled here. Sorry! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

God has just been showing me how this did not need to be so painful if I had first listened when He corrected. Instead I thought I Knew BEtter than God what I needed.

Be blessed. I want you to know she is not intentionally hurting you. Get her to post here if possible.

Blessings,
Pam

runawaypot - Thanks for your post. I am still having lots of problems with WH. But it really helps me to see the other side. Keep on keeping on.

[ July 28, 2004, 05:54 AM: Message edited by: Broken Vessell ]

[ July 28, 2004, 05:55 AM: Message edited by: Broken Vessell ]

Hey kas,

I don't know if I am going to be help, but I did want to say "Hi." I am about to try to exercise. It seems to be the only thing that really lifts me up lately.

Then I have to buy some paint for a couple projects I am doing.

You don't have to get detailed, but how did that particular evening go for you and H?

You are doing more than I in that department. But I intend to change that.

Pam

[ July 28, 2004, 05:56 AM: Message edited by: Broken Vessell ]

kas,

I am so sorry. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

I know how much you want to contact him.

Does your H know about today? Maybe it would help.

He seems so consistently supportive. If anything, it might take some pressure off.

I had contact today and now i know it was not good. it is hard to talk about. I will, just don't know how.

I wish I could help you. You are so strong. You are stronger than you think.

Can you do something fun tomorrow? Keep busy? I can not stand all the thoughts, etc, when I am not going full speed.

Pam

[ July 28, 2004, 05:56 AM: Message edited by: Broken Vessell ]

Kas,

Onlywords wrote:

I keep trying to think of what to say to help ease your pain. The problme is that I don't think you're quite ready to hear some things, and that is perfectly OK! That does NOT mean you are slow, or stupid, or stubborn, or selfish....NONE of the above!
Just for now, try not to judge yourself for these feelings. Don't even try to fight them! Give yourself permission to be sad, angry, confused....anything. The more you fight this, the more power you give it. You just add insult to injury on yourself when you feel bad for feeling bad!!!

Please don’t discount what you feel. I don’t have the “solution” except to say Jesus is still there. This is when you need Him the most.

I guess I need to hear that myself.

All your feelings are NORMAL.

Don’t beat yourself up. It doesn’t help.

I realize the desire to make contact before he is gone. I do believe it will help down the road when he is gone.

That is not what you want, and it is not really what I want with Om now either. But it is going to help eventually.

I have been thinking that today. I am going to start praying about moving. It may be a few months, it may take a year or more. But maybe that is the only way I can get over the feelings.

You are gojng to be okay. You are already on your way to being the Proverbs 31 woman.

Kas,
You are an INSPIRATION.

Yes, this isn’t how you want to feel, and I know what your heart truly wants. I know what you feel you have to have. I do understand. But we have to move on somehow. I am not the one to help you. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

But I do want to be here because I know what you are talking about. Even if my situation was different. The “feelings” are very similar.

(((((((((kas))))))))))

love you,

Pam

Boy!

My last post was confusing!

If your sleeping pills have not taken effect, maybe my confusing post will just make you so dazed that you finally DO sleep!

Whew! Don't know what I am doing tonight! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Pam

By the way,

Congrats!!!!!are due on you loving on your H.

You know, that was as much obedience to God as it was an act of love towards H.

God will honor that ,despite your inner struggle now.

Pam

[ July 28, 2004, 05:57 AM: Message edited by: Broken Vessell ]

BV,

Have to log off now. Get some sleep.

I will look for your posts later if you get a chance.

Blessings,

Pam

[ July 28, 2004, 05:57 AM: Message edited by: Broken Vessell ]

I just saw your post.

You are not crazy! Please stop saying these things about yourself.

The feelings are just not going to go away as quickly as we would like.

Some days it does feel like drowning. I will tell you my story tomorrow. I am too ashamed tonight.

Believe me, you would not feel so bad.

Try to get some sleep and we will both be better tomorrow.

No matter how you or I feel today, we will make it. We will make it if only because we know we have to.

You WILL be okay. And, if it is alright <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> , I will group myself in there.

Just hopeful. I want to make it kas. We need the oldtimers to help us. Guess they aren't there at the moment.

You are not crazy. You are a precious precious person. Let yourself feel, then maybe you can move on tomorrow.

Love,
Pam

Thanks again for the post you just did. I appreciate your kind words so much of encouragement.

It helps to know also that you are a Christian, so can share and understand things from that angle too.

Well I guess I will force myself some sleep and wake up in the morning and try to be positive,

Take care, and I really want you to know how much I have appreciated you being there.

Please tell me your situation tomorrow wont you?

Kas <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Hi Guys and Gals!!!

Wow, I have missed a lot of activity. I spent the day canning strawberry jam so that took up a lot of my time.

BV, I'm so sorry that you saw the OM. I can totally empathize with you on that one. I don't know how I would react if I saw OM. Thankfully Los Angeles is HUGE! I had to cancel going to a concert that I really wanted to see because there is a chance that OM will be going to it. I would just rather not take that chance. I have also had to cancel going to a textile show because he might be there, though he would be the only straight man there! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

I have pretty much decided to look for another job. I can't take going to work and having the memories of our conversations together haunt me. There are days where I get so down and it's those days where the temptation to call OM or send him an e-mail is just too much. I think if I totally remove myself from that situation I will be much better. Besides, my work doesn't pay squat!!!

I am trying now to focus on how this happened. I mean the OM fulfilled a need, probably quite a few. I find that this helps me with the withdrawals a lot. When I have a hard time I just think to myself, "What is it that I am missing here?" and then I just try and figure that out. I do miss the friendship of the OM, we were friends when we worked together years ago. Such is life though, his friendship isn't worth my marriage.

Tomorrow is the first day we will be going to church in a few weeks, I am very much looking forward to it. After that I think I will either be making more jam (I think plum) and hubby and I might go shoot some pool at the local pool hall. What do you ladies and gents have going on tomorrow? I hope that is a good day and the Lord blesses you continually throughout your day! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Ladies -

I can really feel your pain. I feel so bad for you. I wish none of this had ever happened. But I know that does no good.

I will pray for each of you - that you get through this terrible hurt soon.

RAP - Are you around?

Dear all,

Now morning for me. Stayed on pc till about 1am then finally dropped off for a while.

Thanks for your replies.

DearChackler,

Thanks for your encouraging post and for sharing your struggles.You said:

“I have pretty much decided to look for another job. I can't take going to work and having the memories of our conversations together haunt me. There are days where I get so down and it's those days where the temptation to call OM or send him an e-mail is just too much. I think if I totally remove myself from that situation I will be much better. Besides, my work doesn't pay squat!!!”

I don’t work with OM now more which I do miss (even before A started we had a good working relationship though)

He is moving soon. That hurts so much. I know it is supposed to be ‘good’ news if he is, recovery wise, but it isn’t inside my heart. (I know I am in fog lots of it)

At the moment I can’t ‘accept’ in my heart that when I stopped contact with him It would end up him moving and probably never seeing or talking to him again.

I thought it would move on quicker than this but it isn’t. The pain is still as bad.

“I do miss the friendship of the OM, we were friends when we worked together years ago. Such is life though, his friendship isn't worth my marriage.”

I wish I was like Boss…You have said a profound statement here. “His friendship isn’t worth my marriage”..

I will be praying for you that a new job opening will happen for you.

I am looking to it and valuing more than my marriage at the moment. I ‘confess’ my all to you guys because You are like my sisters in the Lord to me, and the only ones I can share with.

The contact with OM has triggered off all feelings (though they must have been dormant anyway)

Thanks for your replies Believer,

Your posts are encouraging me too though all you guys probably see in me is pain coming out through all the time.

Well I have to pay the price what I have done.

My feelings of low self worth, guilt, unable to forgive myself and not really contributing to helping H in the intimate area, are all my fault.

I am sorry for posting so openly and honestly.

Thanks for hanging in there with me.

Kas
<img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

Broken Vessel - There you are! It is a little after 1:00 in the morning here. I couldn't sleep, so decided to get up and check here and do housework.

Don't feel bad about posting your pain here. You should have seen me a year ago - what a mess! That is why I post, to get support and help others. I know how painful this whole thing is.

Dr. Harley says that withdrawal should not last very long. So much for that theory.

Dear RAP,

Please post asap. I have to know how you are. I am worried about you.

If you are on your own I am concerned that you will get into contact with OM and get in such a mess emotionally like me at the moment. You said last night:

“I cannot get into all of it right now, wouldn't know how to say it. But BV, I saw OM today and I was worse. I didn't really buy the addiction talk at first. But unfortunately, it is true. It seems exactly like an addiction. I need God's help. I am not as strong as I had hoped. My family IS the most important thing. I HAVE to move from here at some point.”

“ had contact today and now i know it was not good. it is hard to talk about. I will, just don't know how.”

“Some days it does feel like drowning. I will tell you my story tomorrow. I am too ashamed tonight.

“Believe me, you would not feel so bad”

Please please please RAP if you are at home please type a post to me. I will stay on the pc as long as poss before have to get ready for church. (New minister starting today and I am going to find that hard to cope with) Have to go though.

I will come back on pc after church. If you are feeling as bad as me, than to be at home knowing H isn’t around would be a big big temptation for me to get in touch with OM. Don’t go the way I am feeling dear RAP. Please hang on in there, You said

You are doing more than I in that department. But I intend to change that.

Let’s try that. One step at a time together?

“My family IS the most important thing. I HAVE to move from here at some point.”

Me too. I want to move on. Remember we CAN BE THE PROVERBS 31 LADY….!

The horrible truth is the WS does not realize at all what they are getting into. They do not realize that they cannot just simply walk away without any damage done. I convinced myself I could.

I totally understand. I too thought I could walk away and be ok. I NEVER thought this mess in me would be left to deal with.Thats why it hurts to see OM seemingly just walking away and carrying on as if nothing ever happened. Hurts too bad to explain really. Why does he? Howcan he? What won’t he give me an anser?

When you do choose to separate from OM, the bombshell drops. Reality hits hard. You feel like you cannot survive this. I DID NOT expect those feelings. I DID NOT want to drag my husband through withdrawal.

Me neither. I understand. Wish I could go through this awful withdrawal without H to spare him the pain, but do you think it will help us? For me I would start to look to OM to help me again….

I know how selfish this thinking process is. Believe me I do. But if I had seen ahead to what my family and myself would go through as a result of this, I would not have done it. I have learned.

You are at the place where maybe I am just getting to? There was a time when nothing would have convinced me to regret my time and (love)I spent with OM. Doesn’t this mean if we at least recognize this it is a small but positive step?

You are probably more advanced in this recognition than me as I still want the contact with him though.

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> <hr /></blockquote>I hope and pray for you. Please please RAP post asap. If you had contact already, please share. You can still move forward again.

Will keep posting and waiting to hear from you,

Kas
<img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

Believer,
You said Harley says withdrawal shouldn't last very long...I THINK I remember reading that three weeks is usual, but that it can linger three months or longer, which tells me that there really is no time frame! It depends on each person, I'm sure, and probably the BIGGEST factor in how long it will last is whether or not you maintain NC.

RAP and BV,

It sounds like you both have had a rough start to the weekend. I do have a question for you both....Why did you choose to stay in your marriage?

Julie

Dear Believer &chackler.

Thanks for your posts. I know I must seem like some crazy woman.

I look at how strong and active I was for God, ie speaking,youthwork, childrens work.

Now look how I have fallen.

I am a 'fallen woman'. The type of woman no man should be near.

Other Man has moved on to 'something else'. Here I am left..

lost, broken, a physical and emotional wreck.

Once I helped others to learn of God's forgiveness. Now I can't accept it for myself.

I am a loser.

I have lost.

Satan has won. He destroyed me and my ministry. Or let me rephrase that...I LET HIM do it.

Nothing left now.

Sorry you guys.

I pray for you daily.

Onlywords, the question you asked. I chose to stay with husband, because I asked him if he wnated me to go, but he wouldn't even consider it.

He loves me and is committed to me.He wouldnt dream of letting me go.

If I went, it would not be to go with OM. It never was about that.

I can't think straight. Am tired. Have to go and come back later,

Kas <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

Do not wallow in your mistake. It’s robbing you of your joy. The best advice I can give is to quit focusing on the problem (the A and OM) and work on the solution (to your marriage).

How long are you going to sit in your affliction?

Get busy, you are missing out on life!

Susan

[ July 04, 2004, 07:32 AM: Message edited by: Susan ]

Broken Vessel -

You are still being too hard on yourself. I think when you get through this, you will have a bigger ministry than before.

And remember, Satan attacks those who are close to the Lord. He leaves those who are not walking with the Lord alone.

Chackler - Canning sounds like such fun. Is it very hard to do? I always wanted to do it, but never have. Instead I buy lots of fruit in the summer and freeze it.

Today we are having a block party in our neighborhood, then down to the ocean for the fireworks.

Only words -

I think you are right about 3 weeks to 3 months. But it seems to me that it is much longer than that.

One of the reasons I think this thread is so important is to really see what these WS's are going through. I know it helps me have more compassion for my WS.

He is going to call me this weekend - he has something he needs to tell me that is very important. I think I will have much more empathy for him now.

RAP- Please check in sweetie, we are all worried and praying for you.

Hi all. Thank you for your concern. You really are a wonderful group of women.

I have never felt very confident in my abilities to write out my thoughts, and today I don't seem to have it in me right now.

I read my H's letter late last night after I logged off.

I probably deserve it, but truly feel alone now.

I have been keeping up with the posts (maybe I shouldn't), but I have needed to understand what my H is thinking.

He is almost correct on many points about me. However, I do not see myself as being quite as harsh as he portrays me. But my viewpoint is skewed.

Maybe this is what it takes for me to get it. I don't know.

I do feel worthless. I do want all the answers and approval that we have talked about here BV.

I cannot bare what is going on in me or on the outside right now.

I had one of those outward dialogues with myself this morning. I was talking into the air about what kind of wife I want to be.

I am so far from that. I have only loved on my 3Ds. It hurts when H thinks I am putting them in harms way. I am the one that says "Please do not argue in front of them." I do ALL I can to protect them because of the way I grew up. It is VERY important that they are safe.

I am rambling. Please forgive me. I am failing.

I am sorry. I do appreciate you all and I am not trying to take you for granted.

I just don't know quite what to say right now.

I am getting a ticket to meet family in Florida for Wednesday. H doesn't really want me there, but he said the 3Ds want me there.

It is so hard to go knowing what the atmosphere will be like.

A large portion, whether it is right or wrong, of why I stayed behind is because I could not take the anger and tension from my H anymore. I wanted peace. I thought maybe the time away would strengthen me. I could have new resolve in courage toward him even when he is hurt.

I also have wanted to see OM. Yes, that too. Maybe because I desire a "positive" ending to this thing. As silly as it sounds, I haven't been able to get around the ending. I am also addicted. It makes no sense. I am so confused.

I want my H. I want to feel for him again. Please don't be mad when I say this, but I haven't just not had physical feelings for H. I have felt a total recoiling in that area. I am ashamed of my feelings physically for H. I don't understand them.

That doesn't mean I don't want my M to work. It just makes it seem so hopeless. Such a huge mountain. And on top of it, I have a H that gets angry and I am a wimp about his anger.

He tries so hard, but I am always waiting for the other part when he is tired of waiting on me to show him emotions.

I realize my lack here. I do feel defective. I wish it could just be fixed. You know? I don't want to run off with OM. I want to feel for my H the way I feel with OM. I want it with my H.

I am not so strong when it comes to my H. I have all my walls up. I don't feel like I can or want to take them down now.

I am guilty of this.

BV,

You are right about how we just start from scratch and depend on ourselves. Have to move away from everyone else to start over.

That is where I am. But I cannot make it better for H now.

I have not done what he needed. I keep hurting him. I want him to wait on me, but I am asking too much. I am still very selfish.

Please forgive the ramblings. I have no one else I can tell. I feel so alone.

I am just going to try to go to God now and maybe make some sense of things. I can't do this on my own. I am failing terribly.

I am sorry. You are all seeing me at my lowest.

onlywords,

I don't have an answer to your question. I guess I have stayed with H because I know what we could be. I know that God has always had a future for us, even if we are not there right now. I am not here because of feelings. I am here because of a small hope for our future.

Thanks for all the help. Sorry you have to see allthis mess!

Pam

RAP-

Well there you are! I was very worried about you. Especially after nc said he left his ring and a letter.

On the bright side <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> your husband still thinks you are a little hottie. Wish mine felt like that.

Your feelings of recoiling are completely normal, and to be expected. That must be very scarey for you. But most women go through that. You will get over it.

You need to maintain NC with OM to get healthy again. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> I am worried that you may have slipped. But you do not need to let us know. We care about you, you are a good woman, you can do this, you can do this.

You are "addicted", but addicts overcome every day. Please forgive yourself. You did not mean for this to happen. I understand that.

Can you tell us more about your childhood?

Thanks for coming back here. Now we can all relax.

believer,

I will tell everything. I have to sort it out, but I will tell you all.

I am so sorry for all YOU have been through. You deserve a very happy life.

I hope you enjoy the rest of your day!
Pam

Onlywords,

are you there? I would like to talk to you if you have the time.

Pam

RAP- I am so glad to hear from you. I don't think my story will turn out as good as yours. WH is still deeply involved with OW. I really have no hope left.

believer,

I am so sorry. I have been catching up on your thread.

Please don't put yourself out there. You deserve a happy life.

Your husband's self-esteem is a problem as you mentioned. He will not end up happy with anyone until that is resolved.

He will realize what he lost one day. But you deserve a life NOW.

You are such a blessing to me and others.

I hope you can see possibility for your future and not worry about the mess he has tried to leave.

((((((believer)))))

Pam

Dear RAP,

Have only just been able to log on. Eldest son has been on pc for 3 hours at least.

Was so glad to see your post. I mean really glad! I mean really really glad!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Hey, you will make it. You are trying to sort it out in your mind. That can only be a positive thing as I tell myself as well.

I panicked a bit when I saw you had stayed behind. I guess I was worried. You haven’t told me what you were going to though?? Please open up about it if you are able to?

I guess as I am feeling the same as you, it seems hard for me to offer any hope, yet I keep trying as you do with me! It is a daily thing to do this. It is a daily thing to make it in this day. We are both at the same stage. Please keep posting and being honest. I will too if you do! You said:

A large portion, whether it is right or wrong, of why I stayed behind is because I could not take the anger and tension from my H anymore. I wanted peace. I thought maybe the time away would strengthen me. I could have new resolve in courage toward him even when he is hurt.

I also have wanted to see OM. Yes, that too. Maybe because I desire a "positive" ending to this thing. As silly as it sounds, I haven't been able to get around the ending. I am also addicted. It makes no sense. I am so confused. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

If you had to put the above two reasons you gave for staying behind in order of ‘honesty’ which would you put first? I will share what I would say. I would have put your second reason first if it was me in the situation, because I still want to see OM and ‘get around’ the ending. I keep seeing his face from yesterday. How could he just move on and move away as if nothing happened?

I can’t understand it. It hurts so much. How can he just be ‘ministering’ to others when I have been left a wreck?? I think he is glad of ‘no contact’ because it means I am not ‘in the way’ and a ‘problem’ any more to him. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

Yet I don’t want to believe that. Maybe I have him wrong. My H says I haven’t. That is exactly what he is doing…Moving on, and I was a ‘disposeable’ temporary need being met ‘thing’.. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

I can’t accept that in my heart. Surely not. I don’t know what to believe. If I did talk to him he would either ‘be angry and distant and cold’ with me because I confessed, or he would say he ‘still cares but knew it was wrong so had to move on’. My H believes he will tell anything to not lose face, and I have to accept the truth about what he was (and is) really like. H says if he was really ‘repentant’ he wouldn’t still be trying to help others, or encouraging others to still ‘follow him’.

I am in such confusion. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

I want my H. I want to feel for him again. Please don't be mad when I say this, but I haven't just not had physical feelings for H. I have felt a total recoiling in that area. I am ashamed of my feelings physically for H. I don't understand them.

You know this is me exactly. I am now though in a state of total confusion as to OM.

I realize my lack here. I do feel defective. I wish it could just be fixed. You know? I don't want to run off with OM. I want to feel for my H the way I feel with OM. I want it with my H.

So do I, but like you it seems like a huge mountain. Knowing where to even start.

Please forgive the ramblings. I have no one else I can tell. I feel so alone.

Please keep posting. You are not rambling. You need to talk to vent how you are. I have to as well.

I don't have an answer to your question. I guess I have stayed with H because I know what we could be. I know that God has always had a future for us, even if we are not there right now. I am not here because of feelings. I am here because of a small hope for our future.
That is how I feel to.

I will be online for a while until I finally drop off again with my tablets.

Please take care & keep posting and sharing.

Kas
<img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

Dear Believer,

I feel too ashamed to really be posting on here.

Here I am venting all my feelings, and you are such a kind warm and gentle person, who always replies to us on this thread, yet your heart is being torn apart by your H.

I am just so sad for you and sorry for how I am.

You are like a big sister on this thread, checking in on us, replying to me today, and caring for us all so much, yet you are in such pain.

I do feel ashamed for being on this thread.

I am so sorry for your pain.

Kas <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

RAP,
Yes, I am here....I keep checking in to see if you are ok....I try to stay out of things somewhat, because the answers will come to you as you are ready for them. All this "rambling" you are doing is not pointless, and it WILL lead you to the answers, as long as you are honest with yourself. But if you need to ask me something, I'll be completely honest with you, even if it makes me "look" bad.
Just for the record....I haven't said this before....but I have also felt "repulsed" by my husband. I didn't tell him that, because I was sure it wasn't because he IS repulsive. I'm not sure where that comes from. But it has subsided.
I'll check back later to see if you've posted.

Julie

Rap,

P.S. - I think most of us realize that there is more to you and your husband and your situation than we can possibly know through a discussion forum. Whatever each of you may say about the other, we take it with a grain of salt. People say and do incredible things when in pain. I like to think of anger as "love turned to pain". That is how I feel, anyway, when I'm angry.

Looking forward to hearing from you!

Julie

Dear onlywords,

Hope you don’t mind me jumping in whilst you are waiting for RAP to reply.

I have seen something in the post which you just sent which has made me feel so relieved because it was bothering me terrible, yet I couldn’t face telling you all…

Just for the record....I haven't said this before....but I have also felt "repulsed" by my husband. I didn't tell him that, because I was sure it wasn't because he IS repulsive. I'm not sure where that comes from. But it has subsided

It isn’t in any way because my dear supportive husband IS , it is just how I am feeling and I can’t even bear him touching me or my head or anything.

It scares me to feel like that, and do you mind me asking how it subsided with you?

I would be so grateful if you could share a bit as this is a worry to me. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

Thanks so much.

Kas

Hi BV and onlywords,

PLEASE tell me how the "repulsed" feeling subsided. It has been there a while. I will crush my husband if I can't get past this. I know he already kind of knows.

There are some things he could do to change it, but I am not sure it is time to address them.

BV,

The truth is I stayed behind to see OM. That is the truth. The other half is also true. 50/50

I am a mess. After seeing him, I have more resolve than ever to find my OWN self-esteem. Believe it or not. I know he is not the solution to my self-esteem, but I still crave his attention.

He still sees me as a friend. He treats me as a friend. He has many friends whether they are like me or were never involved with him physically.

He treats me as if nothing has ever happened. There is a lot I am still in denial over and confused about.

I am not dumb enough to believe everything, but he is definitely a paradox. It is not using just plain and simple. I think he has enough guilt that he tries to assuage it by "taking care" of me.

He knows I cannot train with him anymore, so he is trying to get me with a comparable trainer that is a friend of his.

He told him "I have a good friend that is a go-getter in training, and I would like to set her up with you."

Of course, OM offerred to train me again, and I said I could not do that. He knows.

He is trying to make it better for his own guilt. NOt because he thinks I will tell. He is depending on the fact that I do not want to hurt his wife. He knows how much I do not want to hurt her. even when I am angry , he does not believe I will tell.

I have to tell. I have been spending a lot of time today figuring out a way to tell that would be successful. It will make a big difference how it is done. I want to make sure she cannot be deceived. Believe it or not, that does mean a lot to me.

I know this HAS to happen.

I am sorry to dissappoint you all. I have disappointed myself.

He asked me over to get sand from the pool they are putting in so I can fill in holes from plants in my yard. He is doing all he can not to feel guilty. Amazing.

I know. I am acting stupid and selfish. Iknow.

I will tell you all whatever you need to know. I need help. I obviously am not committed enough to stop this on my own.

I wish I could be attracted to my H. It is a HUGE issue! Bigger than I know how to deal with.

I am sorry.

I am so unhappy. This is showing me that OM does not fill the hole in me. Nothing does. How do I get whole? I am scared I never will. I know God is the answer, but I am still scared I will not "get it."

My heart is running away full speed. Even from OM. I have these images from my past. Running to friends that drink and party to "lose" myself.

YOu have to understand. I am ashamed. But I was NEVER a sl**. I was never easy. My H was my first until now.

What happened to me? Even when I was not a Christian (up until about 18 years old), and did worldly things, I never was physically easy.

What is wrong with me that I cannot find the strength to do this right? I feel completely lost.

I am sorry girls. I am truly ashamed.

I wanted to share something I realized that attracted me to OM so much.

It was one of those differences between H an OM.

I know I never saw OM in "real life" but still I saw the difference.

It has to do with how a person deals with anger.

I know I have always been too sensitive, but I just run away at the sight of anger. I would test OM in this area. Strange how I did that. His personality was just different. He might have been using me, but he was an even-keel personality. There was comfort in that. I did not expect anger from him. I could take indifference, not anger. Weird, huh?

Just trying to figure out why I found a man like OM (who lacks so much integrity) more comforting than my H. It is very unfair to H.

Just thoughts. I know I must be off-base. I am willing to listen to advice.

Pam

Dear RAP,

Was jus about to log off and then saw your post.

Don’t be upset.

I knew why you had really stayed home, because that is what I would have done for that very reason..To see OM.

Can you say when, where, how you met him? Did you just talk or did anything happen?

Understand if you cant answer at the moment.

Don’t be afraid though. We are here and care for you so much. I can’t believe how similar are thought patterns are in this. Your struggles and answers and trying to work through them are as if it is me posting those thoughts.

PLEASE tell me how the "repulsed" feeling subsided. It has been there a while. I will crush my husband if I can't get past this. I know he already kind of knows.

I hope onlywords can give us some hope in this, as this is what I asked her too.

I am a mess. After seeing him, I have more resolve than ever to find my OWN self-esteem. Believe it or not. I know he is not the solution to my self-esteem, but I still crave his attention.

Am messed up too after seeing OM yesterday. The feelings of wanting contact are even stronger now. To get an answer. To just know …what? ….that he cared?...that I was just used?.... Will it make it easier to know? Probably not. But like you I am still drawn to him. Why? I don’t know.

He still sees me as a friend. He treats me as a friend. He has many friends whether they are like me or were never involved with him physically.

He treats me as if nothing has ever happened. There is a lot I am still in denial over and confused about.

Am struggling to understand how OM in my case just seemingly walks away. Yes, in his way to him I will be taken care of by a H which OM knew loved me. So his reasoning will be “she is ok.” (Even though he has no idea the mess am in)

Dear RAP. We are both at the point we need to accept that we can’t find ‘what we are somehow looking for’ in both our OM… We need to know we have self worth in God. We need to know that FIRST before we try to work out feelings with H, because our relationship with God is the one thing that can put it all into perspective for us.

He is trying to make it better for his own guilt. NOt because he thinks I will tell. He is depending on the fact that I do not want to hurt his wife. He knows how much I do not want to hurt her. even when I am angry , he does not believe I will tell.

You are being manipulated by him showing his ‘care’ and ‘feelings’ for you, and he is counting on you to let them build up in you, for his protection against thinking you won’t tell his W because you wouldn’t want to hurt his family.

How do I know this? Because it worked and succeeded on me….. I believe OM in both our cases want to protect themselves, their future, their jobs, their face, their families etc all for their SAKE so they don’t have to ‘admit’ and lose anything. I am in it too RAP and it is tearing me inside out.

I am sorry to disappoint you all. I have disappointed myself.

You haven't disappointed. You are still in withdrawal and denial. Natural feelings.

I wish I could be attracted to my H. It is a HUGE issue! Bigger than I know how to deal with.

I am sorry.

I am so unhappy. This is showing me that OM does not fill the hole in me. Nothing does. How do I get whole? I am scared I never will. I know God is the answer, but I am still scared I will not "get it."not committed enough to stop this on my own.

It is me speaking as you speak. I truly understand. Believe me I am at this spot you are exactly.

What was your mantra you just said on the other thread??

God is bigger than our problems….Our problems are not too big that He can’t solve.

My heart is running away full speed. Even from OM. I have these images from my past. Running to friends that drink and party to "lose" myself.

YOu have to understand. I am ashamed. But I was NEVER a sl**. I was never easy. My H was my first until now.

Same for me… Husband too was my first until now.

I wanted to share something I realized that attracted me to OM so much.

I wanted to share something I realized that attracted me to OM so much.

It was one of those differences between H an OM.

I know I never saw OM in "real life" but still I saw the difference.

I understand. I feel the same. You are speaking to me.

Just trying to figure out why I found a man like OM (who lacks so much integrity) more comforting than my H. It is very unfair to H.

We will get through this together with all the help from others on here. Believer said earlier we can move on and that the enemy is trying to stop this. We can move on RAP and find our ministry again in God.. You dancing and speaking to others. Me speaking?

It is an awesome thought, but maybe we could one day even beat the Proverbs 31 lady who eludes us at the present time….but one day….

Keep posting. Keep venting. Keep sharing.

If you can, please say if you had physical with OM since you have been on your own. Any kind at all? I believe it will help you to share?

Its nearly midnite again here. Will go to bed now,

Take care <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

God bless and am praying for all you guys here,

Love

Kas
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

BV,

I know you need to go to bed. Idon't want to keep you up.

But are you still there? Kind of hope you have been able to fall asleep for yourself <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Pam

You said in one of your posts RAP... I want to feel for my H the way I feel with OM. I want it with my H.

Are you sure thats what you want?

Affair partners tend to feed one to two needs at most. A good marriage sustains and fills all and more.It just takes good communication.

You then went onto to say... I guess I have stayed with H because I know what we could be.

Do you?....If you want it go and get it...before its too late. One day at a time.

My words may seem harshat times...but certainly not as harsh as the end of your marriage will be.

You may have thought you were vunerable before your affair and thats how you stumbled into it... facts are those in the know say your at your most vunerable now, left wide open, betrayed and wallowing in the marsh of the aftermath...I have no doubt you shared a lot of your inner self with the OM..and the pull to go back and prod it,just to see if it was real is overwhelming. Everyone here can empathise with that. Only you control that choice. Choose it.

I would like to answer these few questions for yourself.

Where do you want to see yourself one year from now?

What steps would you take to get there?

Max

Madmax,

I will do my best to respond. I am not good at putting my thoughts on paper, so bear with me. Also, the alcohol could me contributing.

You said in one of your posts RAP... I want to feel for my H the way I feel with OM. I want it with my H.

Are you sure thats what you want?

Yes. I am sure that is what I want. No question. It has not been there for a long time. It has been an issue that I have not found a solution to for a long time. Maybe MC would have helped. I know IC would have helped. I am also figuring out his anger reactions have a lot to do with it. Not that he would agree. I would be the first to say I am much too sensitive to anger.

Affair partners tend to feed one to two needs at most. A good marriage sustains and fills all and more.It just takes good communication.

I would tend to agree here. Believe it or not, OM made me feel safe and taken care of. Physically a desire that I had not felt for H was met too.

I am not sure it was a case of good communication. I believe I came to a place where I saw no solutions and no action taken to the problems. Again, I am one-sided and definitely not a completely “whole” personality. I still do not have the complete hope I need to believe I can “feel” what I need to again.

You then went onto to say... I guess I have stayed with H because I know what we could be.

Do you?....If you want it go and get it...before its too late. One day at a time.

Okay. Please tell me how. What I really want is my H to step back and let me just “be” here for a while without expectations. I realize I “owe” him much, but is it wrong to just ask to let me go along for a while until I feel the strength to “do” what needs to be done? (Yes, that does include NC with OM. If I can honestly accomplish this.) No anger, no tension, just an understanding that I do want this, but I don’t feel CAPABLE at all of “doing” anything right now.

My words may seem harshat times...but certainly not as harsh as the end of your marriage will be.

Your words do not seem harsh at all. Not as harsh as what I feel from H a lot of the time. The end of my marriage would be awful. But in all honesty, I would end it if only to escape the anger and pain. It is no excuse, but I am realizing the things from my past are influencing me very much now. I cannot STAND being afraid that my H will change his feelings moment to moment. One minute nice, the next hurt, the next angry. That is not fair of me, but I would rather leave than live through it again in my life.

I would like to answer these few questions for yourself.

Where do you want to see yourself one year from now?

More than anything, in a year from now, I would like to see myself know who I am without anyone having to tell me. I would like to be secure enough in myself that I could love my H only because I CHOOSE to and am not afraid of losing him. I would like to be the kind of woman that is a blessing to her family and is not constantly trying to protect herself from pain.

What steps would you take to get there?

I am not sure of all the steps I need to take to get there. I know I need IC. I am attempting to get the Word of God in me as to what He thinks of me so I am not so dependant on others’ opinions.

I am willing to cut off OM, but I am selfish. I fear my H will lose interest while I work things out in my own heart. I am not willing to take that risk. So I don’t have a real plan. I have to work on that , I guess.

Your input is appreciated. I have come to realize I need help in this. So I am willing to listen.

Pam

RaP, Hi Ky here, I'm also a FWW. I'm almost fog free, I get a bit foggy sometimes, it sneaks up on me.

You can do this. It will absolutely require NC.

I have only read your last post and bits and pieces of a few others about you.
Sounds like you are having a very hard time.
{{{{{hug}}}}}

My H has a very hard time showing me respect and admiration. I was telling my IC he is smothering me to death, and just wants this all over with, NOW!!!! He really thinks he can boss this thing away.

I was told he needs to respect what I am capable to give. I'm not fully recovered. I need full accecptance of my feelings, he doesn't need to like them or approve of them, but they are feelings I am having and he needs to respect them.

Like, you I can't shut these feelings off, and I'm doing the best I can to save our M. I'm doing the best I can with the way I feel right now, and my H like yours needs to accept out of respect for us as human beings.

NO it is not right that we had an A, but we did, and now we are trying to make it right, but we, like them need to recover, and it isn't easy.

Wow, can you follow that. I hope so. I'm so sorry you are struggling. You will feel so much better a bit at a time as the days go by.

KY

Ladies -

Good to hear from you again. The recoiling, and being repulsed by your husband is perfectly normal while you are still "addicted" to OM. That will change. It is just very uncomfortable right now.

My WH is the same way. He has no desire to be with me that way. We have tried. What normal man would not want to have 2 women? But he feels like he must be faithful to OW.

RAP - I have the same issues as you about anger. I grew up in a house where there was constant anger and shouting matches. It was horrible. As a young child, I decided I would never be like that. So I grew up avoiding anger. Really I never even felt angry. It is not a good way to live. People do get angry, and it is a natural thing.

You ladies are doing okay for the point you are at. Do not feel ashamed. (How many times will I have to persuade you?) This is a hard thing to get through, but you will do it.

It will not be pleasant in the meantime, but you are doing the best you can. Do not give up.

RaP & Believer,

there was so much anger in my home growing up, mostly directed towards my brother and I.

My C asked me at our first appt. Is anger a bad thing. I instantly wanted to say He11 Yes!!! I could see she was feeling me out though so I tried to be coy. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Didn't work she seen right through me.

I avoid confrontation at all cost, I am never angry, I am never mad. Well I am, but I hide it.

Your right Believer it is natural, you just need to express it in a different way that we as children was shown. That is when it is wrong.

Thanks KY

Ky4,

Thank you for your post. I have been following you on the jelly thread and I love it. Same twisted sense of humor as mine.

I know it is not fair to ask of H, but having had a couple days away from him, I can honestly say I can do this if he can give me time. I need LOTS of space. He is NOT able to do that now. Don't know what to do with that . I am definitely not going to live with an atmosphere of anger anymore. I have made that decision for sure. Even if it risks the marraige.

I love your thread. We need humor like that . One day when I am not a black cloud <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> , I will join you guys. Too new to this withdrawal to be enough fun yet.

believer,

Thank you too. I wish I knew you in person. I would make you take a walk with me tonight. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> I am about to go. Miss my family. Can't believe now I stayed behind. I am still enjoying the peace to myself, though.

My concern about the physical with H is that it was there a LONG time before A. I have felt ashamed over this and confused for a while. He was my first. I was soooooo taken with him in college that I almost flunked out! Full scholarship and all. He took my breath away.

So I don't understand what happened inside me.

I am sure your H is just confused. You are a great woman. I really wish I could meet you. Like I said, I would drag you on my walk with me tonight! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Pam

RaP, I will be waiting for you in my little neck of the woods then. I hope it will be soon. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I told Robby13, my H is so far up my butt he is coming out my nose.

I had to tell him to back off, he was killing me.

You have to be honest with your H, he needs to know he is pushing you away.

I am with you, I will not tolerate certain behavior now. I've learned so much from my A, it will make my M better, and my H is very willing as am I to change things for us.

I will be rooting for you, that your H will come around, my H is a completely different man. Totally changed for the better. I hope your man gets there as well.

KY-4

RAP -

I would go on a walk with you too. We are having a neighborhood party tonight for the 4th of July. I am cooking things, and we are going to barbecue steaks, chicken and hot dogs.

The attraction WILL come back for your husband. I think you two will have to start all over, just like you are dating again. Things can be restored.

I give Broken Vessel credit for making an attempt, even if it was no frills. Maybe it was the wine.

believer,

I am so glad you have something fun to do. Eat a couple hot dogs for me.

You deserve the fellowship. Have fun. Enjoy yourself.

Thanks for the encouragement. I really need it right now.

Blessings,
Pam

Yes. I am sure that is what I want. No question. It has not been there for a long time

Think again is it?...you chose to marry your husband, set up home and bare children with your husband...you dont want to do that with the OM do you?

Can you please explain what your differences are
between the commited love you married for and the ecstatic love you committed adultery for?

Some people dislike anger,...I personally think it is one of the greatest emotions we have. Because if it is accepted as a natural response to pain...it has the abilty to motivate change in oneself.

Anger also has the abilty to mutate...resentment and rage..I would suspect with your indifference to your personal and marital recovery is feeding your husbands anger.

If I can understand that from 10,000 klms away, tell me what stops you from seeing that?

You cant stop him from being angry at times
, but you can certainly change your responses to it. Change your behaviour in other words.It aint rocket science.

Max

you also said..

Okay. Please tell me how. What I really want is my H to step back and let me just “be” here for a while without expectations.

Translation........this is just too hard to cope with..LET ME WALLOW

I am not sure of all the steps I need to take to get there. I know I need IC. I am attemptingto get the Word of God in me as to what He thinks of me so I am not so dependant on others' opinions.

Whats that saying...GOD HELPS THOSE WHO HELP THEMSELVES? Get yourself into IC.

I fear my H will lose interest while I work things out in my own heart. I am not willing to take that risk. So I don't have a real plan. I have to work on that , I guess.

SO.....why take the risk...make a plan..tell me what do you think your options are?

YOU guess?...you guessed right

Max.

RAP and BV,

Wow...where do I start? Rap, I too thought my husband was "hot", and felt that way about him for a very very long time...in retrospect I'd say the passionate feelings started to fade as he got busier and busier with everything and anything other than me. The only time I got his undivided attention was when he wanted "sex", and even then it was after everything else was done for the day...naturally he was not at his best and didn't seem at all concerned about "satisfying" me. Well, stupid me....I kept waiting and waiting for some magical time when things would get back to normal. Obviously, it didn't. And I didn't say anything, because in my faulty thinking, I decided that if I had to TELL him what to give me to make me happy, then it would seem more like and obligation than that he actually wanted to....I figured if he WANTED to, he would have. I realize that is the wrong way to think, but that is what I thought, nonetheless.
Ok, now comes this OM....he wasn't pushy about sex. He liked talking to me. He was interesting and found me interesting and smart and he told me so. He took time out of his day just to see me, and it didn't always end up in sex...in fact, 75% of the time it didn't and it was ok. During those times there was affection....non-sexual contact...the intimacy we want as women. With my husband, it seemed I could not KISS him or HUG him or even TOUCH him without him wanting MORE. After a while, that becomes a huge TURN-OFF. I know you know what I mean! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />
So, next comes the discovery of the affair. We repent. He forgives. And during our attempt to figure out what the H#@L happened, we have our husbands and other people telling us that the OM was only after one thing...sex. As if we don't feel bad enough, we are being told, basically, that there is NO WAY that OM could possibly have found anything interesting about us other than our bodies. Our husbands seem to be saying that nobody can love us better than them, that their love is TRUE and OM's is a "lie". Wait, didn't I read on some posts from men that to them "Love=sex"????? Well, if that's true, (and that is what they keep telling us to get us to give them sex as a reassurance that things will be ok ) then why does that not also apply to OM? It's a mixed message we are getting.
I asked Recovering H if he would say he was being "pushy" about being intimate. He said no, he didn't think he was. He said he just wanted a touch or a hug or a kiss...some small token. Well, the reason I didn't want to was because in the past, those things, when given, always made him think I wanted sex, or left him wanting more. I COULD NOT deal with having sex, because in the aftermath of my affair, that seemed to be his obsession....it was all about the sex, it was all he could think about. It seemed to be all he wanted to know about. Again, the message I got was "The only thing you're good for is sex". And all the while, he's trying to tell me OM is a loser because that's all he wanted?
Whew. I hope I explained that clearly.
Well, I can tell you that as soon as he stopped talking about OM as though he only thought of me as a sex object and stopped obsessing over the sexual side of the affair, I started to feel better and the repulsiveness started to subside. It isn't where I want it to be, but I am still hopeful.
You know, guys, it IS possible for someone else to find your wife interesting and smart and funny and everything you always thought she was....why would you think it would help to tell her that's not possible???????
RAP, OM didn't have as much time and emotions wrapped up in you to have the capacity to get as angry as your husband. That does NOT mean he didn't care about you. I don't know what to say here, because I don't know either your husband or OM enough to say!
One more thing I want to say...I believe that answers only come as you live life. You can't "wait around" for them. I made that mistake so many times. But after what I went through with this affair, I found that if I kept plugging along as best I could, trying to be as "normal" as I could, answers would come in small, quiet, seemingly innocuous moments. And the affect was much stronger-and gentler- than they would have been if someone had stood over me and shouted the answers to me.
What I'm saying, I guess, is....don't stop your life or put it on hold until you have the answers. Stepping out in faith is like starting the journey before you have the map. I don't think anyone ever learned anything worth learning without making a mistake in the process.

I hope this helped at least a little. When I start to feel overwhelmed by so much "thinking", and I OFTEN do....I step away from it. In the beginning you kind of have to FORCE yourself to get your focus off all this. But you will get better with practice. I assure you, your subconscious will still be mulling it over, but it won't be so noisy and obnoxious about it as your conscious mind! And then you may be surprised at what you hear!

Hang in there...what I'm seeing is that you don't want to compromise yourself to make your marriage work....and that is a good thing, but it is the road less traveled.

Love to all of you!

Julie

onlywords -

I know exactly what you mean by affection always having to lead to sex. Yuck! Men just don't get that. My best feelings were affection from my WH which did not lead to sex.

And I am not one to believe that OM is always using the WW. I know my WH truly cares for his OW. I have seen his love letters.

But back to the point. I think people just slip into a relationship that is not appropriate before they even realize it. The hard part is getting out of it.

And that goes back to figuring out what the OP was providing that was so desperately needed.

In my case, I should have been the one to have the affair. I was not getting my needs met. Once we got married WH stopped trying. SF was boring, but I just did it kind of like mopping the floor. I kept hoping things would get better.

I think my marriage is pretty much over. I need someone to be the leader, and care for me, like I care for him.

The funny thing is WH does everything for OW. He does things he would never do for me. Little does she know that once he is sure of her, she will be put on the back burner, and everything will be more important than her. That is his pattern.

Believer - I think my marriage is pretty much over.

{{{{{hugs}}}}}

Sorry to hear that. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Can I jump in on the sexual touching and how even a hug has to turn into sex talk.

OMG, what is it with them. My H always says, if you would show me more affection I would back off. NOPE, he just wants more SF. It doesn't matter what I try, he is still all over me.

Should I be flattered??? My C suggested a book for him to read. Every Mans Battle. I have yet to get it because things are better.

My H says it is absolutely how he feels loved. We are also reading Venus and Mars in the Bedroom, it states that the more out of touch with emotions and sentiment that a man is the more SF he requires because that is his way to touch that said of himself.

So let him touch himself then, I say. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> J/K

I also believe that my OM truly cared about me. I fulfilled many things for him, and he for I. I do believe we used each other, but on a very deep level. My H would love to convince me otherwise, and completely believes I was preyed upon.

Why isn't this a perfect world, where nobody gets hurt????

KY

Hi all.

I just got a call from my H down in Florida.

He has decided he wants a D. He called my mom to tell her he was sending me home.

He called our MC to tell them.

He threatened to tell the children everything. I asked him to please wait about the children. They did not need to hear this.

He said he did not believe I would tell them the truth.

Who would tell a 13, 8, and 4 year old all about what I have done?

Do THEY really need to know the details? I am PRAYING he does not do this to them.

He can do what he wants to me, but I hope he has the sense to leave them out.

I guess I have won the prize for how quickly someone can end a marriage.

I have no idea what to do now.

Pam

I know exactly what you mean. I get it that men love sex. But why can't they also be affectionate without it leading to sex? I used to absolutely hate it when I would be doing dishes, and WH would grab my a%%. He thought of it as affectionate - to me it was gross.

I talked to OW's husband today. He comes by quite a bit and we have become good friends. He is very nice looking and has a great personality. I really admire him, because he is raising his daughter alone now.

That is what I just don't get. OW has left her home and her daughter for my WH who is 16 years older than her.

She thinks she is getting a real prize. While he is fun to be around (if you are not married to him), he is so different from her husband. So beats me.

I do think that they love each other, but at what cost? I guess it does not matter to them.

RAP,

I know we have not communicated a lot but I am on the web site a lot and I am fairly familier with your story.

All I can say is don't panic. I have read your H's words and I know he loves you. I don't think he is a vengeful person and is simply at the end of is rope. He seems like he is really trying hard to make this work.

Try showing some affection even if it's small - not necessarily sex but some had holding or cuddling. Believe me, the more you do, the more you'll get used to it.

You two seem to really love each other. I would hat to see it end.

Good Luck

Boss

RaP

How you feeling??? Are you okay??? I'm sorry for you. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

RAP -

Oh my gosh, I am so sorry. Maybe he is just saying that but he doesn't really mean it???

I don't know what to tell you except that I am praying for you and your family.

RAP,

I know we have not communicated a lot but I am on the web site a lot and I am fairly familier with your story.

All I can say is don't panic. I have read your H's words and I know he loves you. I don't think he is a vengeful person and is simply at the end of is rope. He seems like he is really trying hard to make this work.

Try showing some affection even if it's small - not necessarily sex but some hand holding or cuddling. Believe me, the more you do, the more you'll get used to it.

You two seem to really love each other. I would hat to see it end.

Good Luck

Boss

I am afraid he means it.

My mom just called all upset. He called her and pretty much yelled at her that her daughter has been f***ing another man. She was all upset.

He told her I had better be out of the house when he gets home.

He is very scary when he is angry.

I really can't blame him.

I have totally blown it. I was going down there(had not bought ticket yet) Wednesday to join them.

I want to make this work. I am messing it up royally.

I don't think I should go now.

He said he would drown me if I came.

I have really messed this up.

Pam

RAP - Don't despair. He is angry. He does love you. I hope he won't tell the kids. To me, he seems like he gets angry, but gets over it. He is hurting, but I truly believe that he will stand by you. So hang in there.

RAP,

give him some time to vent. He is obviously really angry. I believe it will blow over.

I'll be here if you need to talk.

Boss

RAP - is there a place where you can go if he is this angry?

Runawaypot: I feel for you.

You said:
<blockquote>quote:<hr /> I have no idea what to do now. <hr /></blockquote>A few messages back someone asked "Why did you stay and where do you see yourself in your marriage a year from now?" (Or something like that.) Well, what has changed? Do you still want to be married to this guy? If so, it's time to stand up and fight for your marriage (AND I don't mean fight in the argument sense). It's time to stop wallowing for this other guy. It's time to read up on the plans of this site (not just the message forum). It's time to formulate a plan, to set some goals, to look at the problem (in your M) and formulate a response. IT'S TIME TO TAKE BACK YOUR MARRIAGE, WITH YOUR PARTNER!!!!!!!

Wake up girl, it's not over. What's that, that Bill Murray said in the movie "STRIPES"? It's not over, until I say it is? Well, don't give up now. Pray to God, ask for his forgiveness, ask for his help in guiding you home, ask that his will be done.

We'll be praying for both you and nc. Good luck and DON'T EVER GIVE UP.

RH

Rap,

Has something else happened to make him explode??

You are safe right now though, correct???

Did your mom know before tonight?

Will he post?

So many questions I have for you.

I'm guessing he is feeling insecure because you aren't together right now, so maybe if you did go, if he isn't going to hurt you, then he will feel better having you there.

I'm going to pray for you.
Ky

RAP,

I agee with Recovering H. What do you want? It's time to decide and make a commitment. I don't think your H can wait any more.

Make a decision, stick to it, and tell him. He'll thank you for it.

Boss

Oh, and put away that booze bottle. That clouds your thinking and further depresses you.

You'll make us so proud when you can proclaim your marriage recovered. But don't think that far ahead. One day at a time AND get started on those plans. Do it today!

RH

I agree with Rh as well. Save your M. Love your H enough to fight for this. Show him it is worth saving.

XOX
KY

Now I sound like an informercial. I didn't mean to.

RAP: We care about you and want to see you and NC work it out.

RAP -
I think he has been reading your posts and is extremely hurt and angry. Are you okay? I really like your husband, and realize he is very hurt right now. But saying that he will drown you is a little over the line.

He seems so nice, smart, and logical, but I, like you am afraid of anger - or let's just call this rage.

Hope you will be okay tonight.

Dear RAP,

Are you still there? I did drop off to sleep shortly after my last post and have just logged on now.

I am so sad that H did that. Does he let things boil up in him and then he has to find a situation to 'let it out on'?

I know he is in pain but I feel sad that he picked that time to do it, and went ahead and called your mum and MC and then threatend to tell the kids.

He keeps saying he loves you,so I don't understand why he would do thisin this way.

RAP, please don't mind me asking you, but have you had phys contact (or full) with OM while you have been on your own?

If so, had you told H and that is why is has gone this way?

Am just trying to put together the pieces from yesterday and last night.

He will obviously suspected something when you wanted to be on your own. (My H does too, when I want to be on my own)

Please please get in touch asap dear RAP,

I am so worried and concerned about you. I have to go out in half an hour, so I won't be able to check the pc till later, and I really want to know you are ok?

Thanks believer and onlywords for your replies and encouragment.

I will reply, its just that I am so worried about RAP at the moment.

Kas <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

RAP,

I'm worried about you, too...everyone feels extremely helpless right now. I would say this is your call to action. Maybe the "moment of truth"...it has to come sooner or later.

If you want things to work, then you have to find a way to SHOW him so he believes it.

Don't know what else to say...praying for you!

Julie

Dear RAP.

I know that thre are things to work out on both sides.

I understand he is angry. I have just read his post.

Please don't be hurt by me saying this, but his post has actually put some sense in me. I know I haven't got to face his anger up front, but the things he said are really making me think.

I know my OM has moved on and doesn't care any more for me..

Yet still I want to see him and have contact.

I would still yet tie myself up to an Emotional bond, yet it hurts more to know he isn't bothered and wont contact me anyway.

My inner turmoil in wanting someone who doesn't want me is destroying me.

I have to end it now in my heart RAP. I have to pray and today 'let go in my heart'

You have an OM who is still willing to see you and be intimate with you. Your H can see whatOM is doing to you inside and it is tearing himapart.

Your H's channel seems to be in anger

My H's channel is in 'quietness' mostly (waiting for me to come through it I guess)

Sometimes you may wish for a bit more of how my H is responding in this, and sometimes I wish for a bit of how your H is responding in this.

Our marriages, Husbands and children are ones who love and need us RAP. I am trying to make myself see this. We can still be 'us' in this. We can still have our own ministry and be individuals.

If we let go of what we think is making us happy now, and take a step of faith (even though feelings are not there) and turn back to God and our H, we will find peace.

We both need peace RAP.
We both need to give up our drinking
We both need to make a new start with God
We both need to give up OM in our hearts
We both need to give up contact

My advice. If you can move away with H do it. If he is willing and it would work out for you job wise do it.

Nothing can make you unhapier than the misery we are both in now in not letting go in our hearts and thoughts and lives of OM.

Love you all loads,

Will post again later as I have to go out.

Get out of your house, and go somewhere else for a couple of days. Don't stay there. You know you will see OM and each time will be harder to give him up. Walk out now if possible and take your bags till you can meet up with H on Wed....

Kas <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

RAP,

You said in a post yesterday that you knew you had to tell OM's wife. You said you didn't want to hurt her.

I know why you don't want to tell her.

You are afraid he will choose her over you and you are afraid you could not handle that.

The truth is, he has already chosen his wife.

He does not want her to know because he is afraid he will lose her. He does not want her to know because then he will actually HAVE to make a choice and he does not want to.

How about let's cut him in half so you can BOTH have him. In effect, that is what you are doing. Let him GO!

Remember, you are not "just" the wayward spouse....YOU ARE ALSO THE OTHER WOMAN!

If you can't do this for yourself or your husband, do it for the woman you are making a fool out of. Try to look at what you are doing from HER perspective. You have not had to face that because SHE DOES NOT KNOW!

Nc said you are a STRONG woman. You would have to be to keep carrying on like this. It takes a lot of energy to keep doing what you know is wrong, what you know is not working. No wonder you have none left to work on your marriage.

You are LOVED!

Julie

RAP,

P.S. - Fire is a purifying agent. God uses it to purify us. The enemy (satan) uses it to kill us, only he gets us to do it to ourselves.

RAP:
I am so sorry that it is seeming so dark right now.
Please remember 2 things:
Men DO feel differently about SF/love/affection than women do. That does not make it wrong. I think too many women look at a man's thinking as somehow less evolved, and that we somehow need to be "educated" in the right way - the woman's way?
That is extremely invalidating and disrespectful.

The other thing is that your H is human, and is prone to make mistakes, too. You are ultimately seeking latitude for the mistake you have made, the fact that you lost your own moral compass and sense of identity. You know the struggle is hard, and you want some slack for the failures you encounter.
I absolutely agree, but I also say give your H the same slack you seek. He is very wounded right now. He feels totally rejected, which he is desperately trying to process. When I felt rejected, I felt that I somehow deserved the rejection, because I was not good enough. Then, when I tried to be better but it wasn't still good enough to "win" my WW over, I felt despair - an utter failure. I tried to understand what she was going through, I tried to be patient, but it was just too hard.

I saw life passing me by. It dawned on me one day that I won't live for ever. Was I going to pass what time I do have waiting for the unattainable? In my dark lonliness, I felt as though it was time to recognize the obvious - that my W was not going to ever feel *that way* for me, and if I ever wanted to have someone feel *that way*, I'd have to look while I still had the time. Gradually, my own feelings for my W started to subside.

Now, the tables are reversed. My WW is the one who is trying so hard to get me back, but I am just not there. I wonder if I've made a terrible mistake, or if I am now. Part of me was so, so terribly hurt by her that no matter what she does it cannot make up for the past (and believe me, since her epiphany last month, she is desperately trying). I fear that if I go back and she rejects me again, it will kill me.

Part of me is, I am ashamed to admit, too prideful to go back. It's as though I lose and she wins.

Part of it is fear that I can't do this. That my own failings will once again drive her into the arms of another. I am still not worthy.

Maybe I am making a huge mistake. I can see that; I just can't stop myself.

Don't expect your BS to be without their own mistakes, and don't hold them to a higher standard. Maybe you think he didn't cheat and is therefore better, but he's not. We're not. Sometimes I think WSs do hold their spouses to a higher standard, both before the A and afterwards. You cannot do that. You must give to him the same latitude for failing as you need for yourself.

Dear RAP,

Are you there? Can you post and say what is happening?

Have you had more contact today??

Please post and talk it over with us.

Don't stay on your own in that house.

Satan will give you a field day in this. You DONT HAVE TO LET HIM.

Even now stop and walk away...

Kas

RAP - Please come and post. We are here wondering what is happening with you. Me and broken vessel are liable to hit the wine again if we don't hear from you.

I am here today-just getting
caught up.
RAP-
I am thinking of you. Praying
God will touch your heart with
his love and grace. Your H has
been away from you-anger is
built up easily when person is
not around. When you see each
other-you 2 need to have an open
conversation. Like 2 adults-
no anger-just compassion. think
of your life w/o him,w/o kids.
remember why you fell in love w/
H is 1st place-fill your mind w/
love for him, he still loves you.
Life really tests us-& I know-
and all your friends here know-
that right now you are being
tested-let us help you- keep
posting-we want to know you are
OK, OK?
"for our God makes only one demand
upon us. He does not expect a
humanly unattainable completeness
and perfection, but only the willingness
to do as much as we possibly can at
every single instant"
my hug for you today....
pal

I don't post much but I read posts now and then, mainly to help me get through the rough times. It's been over a year past DD. I had an EA and PA with my HS XBF which lasted 8/02-6/03. What a fall I took! I was so stupid, so thoughtless, so uncaring to my family. I wanted to let OM go and tried to push him away several times, but I was addicted and weakened by everything he told me and promised me.

Last June (DDay) I felt OM's distance and had a hunch. He had his profile on a dating site (he was in process of D). I confronted him via phone (he lives 2 hrs away) and just said he knew for some time that it was over, no apologies, nothing. He used the same lines and things we shared with his new "dates." I know I deserved this but the pain was overbearing as most of you can relate.

The first 7 months I went through serious withdrawal and was getting repetitive hang up calls at home and at the office. I knew it had to be OM. I was trying desparately to salvage my M and my wonderful H. I stayed busy with my family and put so much effort into being a better mom, wife and Christian, but the hang ups didn't help.

Every day I still think of OM and somedays it hurts more than others. All I keep thinking is how much fun he is having with other women while I'm still hurting and still feeling the pain over what I did and he never showed any remorse. But then I remind myself of what I almost gave up. I believe God was with me and guiding me but mainly teaching me a valuable lesson. My oldest son and I were having dinner the other night and I really looked at him and thought, "You are such a handsome young man and I love you and our family so much. How could I have done this to you and almost broken our family and caused you so much pain?" It still tears at my heart.

Since DD, H and I have focused on each other--date nights, snuggles, warm exchanges every day via email. I still carry pain deep inside but remind myself that I didn't get into the mess easily and I can't get out of it easily. My mind wanders a lot but one main thing that has helped is keeping my mind focused on everything but OM. Hey, I'm taking an advanced math class this summer. You wouldn't believe how math problems can get your mind off your problems...LOL!

I will pray for all of you and hope you are getting through tough times as I still am. Remember, divorce wasn't in God's plan but a beautiful and memorable marriage is.

no1mystryf
Christian Rock - Audio Adrenaline "Your sins are forgotten. They lay on the bottom of the ocean floor."

no1mystryf,

Thanks for sharing that lovely story. These women need to hear that. We know it's not easy, they just need to focus on what they need to do, not on what they lost.

All FWW: You must look forward to move forward. As long as you look to the past you will not be able to see the future. You have much work ahead of you. Why not, turn your head and start walking it out. Good luck!

RH

[ July 05, 2004, 12:38 PM: Message edited by: Recovering H ]

no1 - Welcome to this thread. I am the BS, but started posting here somehow. There is a great group of women fighting the same battle you are, and believe me, your input and support is much needed and appreciated.

RAP- I believe that you are reading but not posting. Please join us.

Recovering H,
Thanks for your kind thoughts. My story certainly isn't "lovely" but I'm hoping in due time my M and my life will be lovely again with little to no internal pain. In this thread someone mentioned how you mentally assign events by "before and after" the A. I know exactly how that feels. I wish I could live my life the way it was before A began. My BIGGEST REGRET in life is having an A with XBF. I always wondered about him over the years. Our teenage story was never finished but believe me...I definitely have closure. It's interesting how we (WS) see the OMs for who they really are after the fog has lifted. Recovering H, I read your story and hope that WW comes to her senses soon. I looked at the list you gave on what I was feeling during the A. When I read it, all I could think of was my family who I have hurt.

Believer,
I'm not all completely familiar with your story, only that you are a BS. I hope you are in recovery and working through the difficult times. Please give me an update and I'll try to help you if I can.

Back to more math problems.....

No1
Christian Rock - Audio Adrenaline "Your sins are forgotten. They lay on the bottom of the ocean floor."

Hi everyone.

I am sorry I have taken so long to come back. Was back and forth with H on the phone until about 2:30 am.

Got up and did housework and "avoided" coming here.

I have read Hs posts and these.

I saw OM on Saturday.

I have not seen him since, and I will not be seeing him before I get with my family.

That is the truth. MOstly because he doesn't need to see me that much, and he does pick his family over me.

I don't have anything redeeming to say. I am truly sorry for what I have done to my H and my family. I am sorry what I have done to my friends here. That doesn't make the pain go away. Just words.

My H wants me to go live in Florida with FIL and 3Ds. I understand.

While he was home for all of June (and we were all together) I never saw OM. True, he did call.

I felt safe and accountable with H here. He won't do that again.

It probably doesn't matter how I feel about living with FIL. I would like H to give it one last shot here. I want my 3Ds to be in their home. I want to be in my home.

My eyes are open. I am numb, but my eyes are open. I would allow H to have complete and full access to my whereabouts if we could stay. Whatever he wants including no gym. I just don't want to have to live with FIL. We are not close, he is wonderful, but he doesn't think a whole lot of women. He treats them with respect, don't get me wrong. But it comes out.

Now that he knows (and I don't fault H for telling), I can't imagine living with him. What could he possibly think of a woman that would do this to his son? He is not my family. A GREAT man, but I can't imagine having to face him every day.

GRow up, right? Well, that is true.

H said he will not bring 3Ds back (possibly) if I don't go down there to live. I think he will take them from me. I love them with all my heart. Yes, I a have failed MISERABLY, but they are my children. I have NEVER done anything to put them in any harms way.

I have destroyed my family. I have totally destroyed it.

I am sorry if you all feel taken advantage of. That was not my intention. I see you as friends and really have depended on you being there. Thank you. Thank you for being there for NCW when I have not.

I was truly glad to not see or be with OM since the beginning of June. Yes, it felt horrible. HOrrible. But the sane part of me was happy to make the baby steps. I am telling the truth here. My spirit was happy even when my flesh was SCREAMing.

My huge mistake was staying behind. I wanted closure. I got more than closure. I was physical with OM again, but not in our bedroom. Somehow that made it better in my twisted brain.

I thought I would get closure without SF. Well, I did it again. I even tried to say no, but that is another ridiculous story. I am not happy about it.

I even remember wishing H was here on Sunday so I could get a move on this separation thing. I regretted it the moment I did it. I definitely wanted to(I won't lie), but then realized (after going all of JUne) that the time in June brought more joy because I was choosing family.

It may not make sense. I allowed a quick fix, and then I felt sick.

onlywords,

I have never ever felt OM would choose me over W. That really is not it. I am afraid of OMs response to A being revealed. A little scared maybe. Maybe no need to.

The real fear is because I know I am not that important to OM, and after the reveal, I would feel just plain stupid. He likes me, but no loss to him if I am not around.

His W needs to know. It will happen. No doubt.

I have realized how much I have done wrong. Maybe too late. H does deserve better.

I don't ever expect you all to think anything of me, but please know I have been as truthful as I could when I have posted, and all the feelings you have seen here have been real.

I have been weak and selfish. Thank you for being there, especially for NCW.

I want my marriage to work. I don't know if it will, but I am not done yet.

Pam

Well, there you are my girl. Of course we still care about you. We have been suffering, not hearing from you. In fact, me, and probably BV have been hitting the wine big time.

Okay, you you fell off the NC wagon. That is not good, but expected. You are a good woman, making poor choices. Your OM's wife needs to be notified. Her health and safety are endangered. Plus she needs to know the kind of man she is married to, so she can make her own choices.

My WH was carrying on his affair for about 4 months before I knew about it. People at work new, his kids knew, his family knew, and neighbors knew. No one had the decency to tell me.

I knew things were not good, but WH kept telling me they would get better. I believed him.

My advice to you is you need to start honoring your marriage. I don't care if you do not "feel" like doing it. Just do it. You two CAN get through this. Your husband still loves you, and I know you are a good mom.

So suck it up. Do not go live with your FIL. Stay in your house and be a wife to your H. You need to make the choice to be committed to your marriage.

As far as the SF - just do it. It can be "no frills" like BV said. You need to just move forward and trust in the Lord. I don't want to hear that you don't "feel" like doing it. Just do it.

You have an incredible husband who thinks you are a little hotty. He is very hurt right now. Time to check back into your marriage.

RAP,

I have been reading along with this thread and wondering where it was going. It went from the very "Disrespectful Judgements" by a few here that men wanting to have sex with their W's was somehow disrespectful and really out of order. To BV having contact with her OM, and then chasing around town to see if she could meet him.

And then finally you having "contact" with your OM this weekend. I have not yet read your H's thread as I have been off line for a few days, but I can guess that his response to divorce you is due to that "contact" which really included having sex with him again.

Having sex with the OM again is NOT just "contact" It is betrayal of the highest form, especially since RAP beat her H about the head and shoulders to stay home because she wanted time "alone".

Frankly, RAP whether you go to your FIL's or not, is of little importance. You may not like your FIL but your H KNOWS that you cannot be trusted, that there is NO WAY he could leave you alone. And frankly there is a very important issues here.

You claim you would never hurt your children, but you have, and you risked more than you realize. You risked your life and health and that of their father for your fun. You could have easily made your children orphans rather than "just" breaking up the family.

I am stating the obvious to you because it is clear that the obvious has illuded your thinking. It is now time to get REAL with yourself. You made a big scene about not going. You admitted it hurt your H, and then you do what????

Time to step away from your family, your OM, who's wife should know for her health and safety and that of her children (Your not the first nor the last place OM has dipped his wick. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> ) She should not risk dying because you want to protect yourself. It is time to step away from all of it and pray. Pray to find out what is within you, what you want to be within you, and what you are willing to do to get to be where want to be.

Please step back, and pray and think, and really look at what you have lost and may lose in the furture. Then decide where you want your life to be, what is gaining or losing a few pounds worth to you? What your chosen lifestyle is worth to you? Make no mistake you chose this, and you can choose to change it.

Please think about this, mean while I and others will talk with your H. But, we cannot convince him to believe what you yourself don't believe. That is up to you.

God Bless,

JL

Dear RAP

AM SO SO SO SO GLAD TO HEAR FROM YOU! REALLY AM SO SO SO SO SO GLAD <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I just had to go out and I rushed back praying that my eldest son wouldn't be on pc so I could log in and there you were.

Infact I am going to post this first just to let you know am here , then reply again!!

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Dear JL,

At last you are back. Do you have to 'disappear'for a few days like that...(Sorry I guess you need a break, but we missed you)

Me and RAP have been in a mess as you can gather..I am going to reply to her first here then to post to you on my other thread.

ps...Is it possible that you could 'forewarn'next time you won't be online??

Kas <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

Dear JL,

At last you are back. Do you have to 'disappear'for a few days like that...(Sorry I guess you need a break, but we missed you)

Me and RAP have been in a mess as you can gather..I am going to reply to her first here then to post to you on my other thread. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

ps...Is it possible that you could 'forewarn'next time you won't be online??

Kas <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

JL,

I understand. Thank you for your post.

I will get yelled at for this. Yes, maybe it is a pity party.

But seriously, I messed up. That is not a strong enough term, but I cannot say it here.

Why tell the truth? I am where I am at because of my actions. Yes , it is me!

Why did I tell my husband about it? Why did I come here and post about it on Saturday? Why did I not lie?

I thought because it was the right thing to do.

Too little too late I guess.

Lying does not seem so bad if telling the truth(because I am in trouble and do want to keep my H) gets where we are now.

I am not trying to be rude. But I did not choose to lie. I could have. I could have hidden my going back. I did not.

I can't say anything else. I can't type and sound like you all. I have hit rock bottom. Nobody has to tell me that. Nobody.

I am sorry. I am listening. I cannot post anymore.

Pam

RAP - Let us pick you up, and dust you off. You can do this. You are a good woman and mother. And you can be a good wife again. Don't be so hard on yourself. We care for you.

Dear all

First Believer,

Thanks as always for being there. I was a bit frantic about RAP. If only I had obeyed my gut instinct on Saturday, and asked her point blank what was her real motives for staying home. I should have realised when she was posting me Saturday and when she was saying about getting paint etc that she hadn’t gone with NC.

If I had a phone number I would have rang from where I lived across the world and said RAP DON’T DO IT…GO WITH H….YOU WILL END UP PHYSICAL WITH OM…

I would have done too. I know my weakness. You all saw my weakness on Saturday when as JL put it ‘BV was chasing OM round town’. In a way I was. I wanted to bump into him ‘accidentally’..

Thanks so much for posting on here Believer. You are having such an input into me really I mean that. The fact that you are going through what you are yet still being willing to post here to us FWW. I am so so so glad you are here and thinking of us and keep checking on us. I feel I have got real friends on this thread.

As far as the SF - just do it. It can be "no frills" like BV said. You need to just move forward and trust in the Lord. I don't want to hear that you don't "feel" like doing it. Just do it.

I will be posting more on ‘that side’ of things to JL on the other thread after here. I do want to say though that when I did ‘that’ for husband it really was just the basics. I mean, you couldn’t get any more basic. I had no feelings in it either. He understood that and was grateful I was still willing to. I took all your advice and ‘did’ it without any feelings just for H.

RAP. I guess it taught me that it is ok to do it without feelings. I hope one day the feelings side will be there, and I have bought books (Pep recommended them), but they haven’t arrived yet. Bought something else too (see other thread)….

The devil will now be telling you that you have BLOWN it but don’t listen to him RAP. He is a deceiver and wants you to fail and your marriage. You can be stronger in this. I am on a PASSION TRAIL to discover what it can be like if I try (even with no feelings).

Please hang in there and work through this with NC.

Please keep posting.

Have just seen your post RAP before I posted this.

DON’T YOU DARE GO AND LEAVE ME HERE!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

I told you before, and am telling you again…

We are the Proverbs 31 ladies ‘in the making’ …. We are being re-modelled and remade into something beautiful in God’s eyes. We will help others in the future who are struggling like us now. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

You can’t go. We all need you. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

I need to know you are there too.

Please don’t. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

Kas

BV,

One last note. You have been so good to me. Thank you for everything. Just knowing you have been there has been a huge comfort.

You do not need me. You have these wonderful people here that are helping you. They want you to succeed.

I know you will listen to them. But you need them, not me.

I really cannot express what your presence here has meant to me. Thank you for putting up with me. Thank you for your love and mercy.

Your example has been wonderful, too.

You are more than on your way to being the Proverbs 31 woman.

Love,
Pam

Dear RAP,

This is a quick post before I have to log off. (Having problems with teenage son at moment).

Please don't go anywhere.

I do need to hear from you on this thread.

You are helping me. I do need to know how you are.

You haven't failed. Satan is just trying to drag you back down again.

You can get up in the strength of God and do this.

You have to give your all to God.

We both have to do this now.

You mustn't go.

I will check in asap in the night even to see if you are still there.

Kas : <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

RH,

By the way, I wanted to thank you for your posts.

You, like believer, are a BS. It must take a lot of effort to have patience or understanding with a WS.

If H knew how things have gone since Saturday, he would know that my pain is probably now comparable to his. I will never know his pain, but you can rest assured I am getting my fair share for my actions.

thanks for being there for NCW,
Pam

Rap, We don't want you to go... <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

If you must, come back when you feel you are ready. This is a bad place to be, but we all care for you better with us, than alone. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Be strong, you can do the NC thing, mind over matter. You can do this!!!!

KY

Dear RAP,

Hello again. It is now 11.30pm here and all gone to bed except me tapping on computer again.

Actually I just wanted to see you were before I really logged off for the night.

Why did I tell my husband about it? Why did I come here and post about it on Saturday? Why did I not lie?

You did the right thing RAP. I too was thinking of all kinds of things re OM Saturday and how to contact him on his own. I confessed my chasing around the town (as JL pointed out) and told you guys here. We need to do this RAP.

If we keep secrets from this thread, we will all end up drifting away. It is the truth that will help us get through it.

I will confess to you now I have chance to be on here. I feel I have let you guys down.

You see, you know how I am struggling with NC? Well I haven't made direct contact, but I did send OM's sister who lives abroad (am quite friends with) my NEW mobile number, explaining tht my last phone had broken and hadn't been in touch with her brother (OM) and if he wanted to say bye to me before he moved away he could contact me on my new number.

She acknowledged my email today, so she may pass on my number to OM now. (I expect 4x4 now).I don't think he will contact me though.

Guess I just thought a goodbye and seeing if I am ok would have been nice (especially as he doesn't seem to be having any after effects).

I nearly chose to keep this to myself for fear of letting you all down when you have helped me so much. I confessed too, because you had the honesty too and I felt I should too.

There. Now we are both in a dilema and choice time again...

We both know we have to chose our Husbands. They may not be responding in the way we would chose, but they love and want us. NC wants you too RAP.

Please know we care for you.

Post soon.

I am praying for you now.

Kas <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Dear mystryf,

Just wanted to post you a reply and say welcome to this thread!

You said somethingwhich really spoke to me and made me think;;;

while I'm still hurting and still feeling the pain over what I did and he never showed any remorse. But then I remind myself of what I almost gave up. I believe God was with me and guiding me but mainly teaching me a valuable lesson. My oldest son and I were having dinner the other night and I really looked at him and thought, "You are such a handsome young man and I love you and our family so much. How could I have done this to you and almost broken our family and caused you so much pain?" It still tears at my heart.

Ican relate to that feeling. I used to kiss my darling kids goodbuy in the morning then plan how orwhen I could see OM. It makes me feel gutted inside.

I loved my kids and would never have left for OM. I cared for him deeply though and am having trouble(lots) in getting over it.

Please keep posting here. Sorry I was late with the reply. I only had chance for a couple times on the pc tonight, and I wanted to make sure RAP was still there.

Thank you again for posting and sharing your story.. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

BV, I read some where that we would all like a tropical vacation with our OP to say a "good" good bye. Isn't that so true.

That is how I felt. Just a good - good bye would be nice. I really don't believe there is any such thing.

I believe saying good bye one last time, is just a way to keep hanging on. It is hard to think that for the rest of our lives NC with the OP needs to be for the better of our M and ourselves.

It is scary, and lonely, and it hurts the heart, but it must be done. We can all do this. Holding hands, we can all do this.

Thanks for your honest post, BUT KNOCK IT OFF!!!
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Don't give him the ball, then when contact is made you can say, he called me, don't do it, oh wait you all ready did. Change your #.

Take care BV, and good night.
KY

Originally posted by runawaypot:

>I saw OM on Saturday.
>I was physical with OM again, but not in our bedroom.
>I want my marriage to work.
Pam

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

.... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> ... WoW such ~disconnect~ ...... there is no thread of reality woven between your thoughts, desires, logic, feelings, action, values.... etc.

Truely, If Mr. Pep had done this to me during our recovery, I have to say, I would divorce him.

Too risky to be married to someone who is so disconnected .... it would totally undo me.

Sorry .... truth is one of my weaknesses.

I think you need a psychiatrist. Your thinking is not reality based at this time.

Perhaps you should forgo marriage counseling at this time and see a mental health specialist.

This is in no way meant to be insulting. I truely think you are in dire need of greater help than this board can offer. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

Pep

Pepperband,

I was truthful. A little too late, but I was truthful.

Please explain more of what you say. I feel completely lost.

Please don't be offended.

If I had wanted to lie, I wouldn't be here.

It may make no sense, but I do desire help.

Pam

Ladies -

Yikes, what a stressful few days. I wish I could bring you all here to California, and we could just hang out on the beach for awhile.

JL - Glad you are back. Sorry you find our talk about wanting just affection a DJ. I know tons of women that feel the same way. We do like SF, but would sometimes enjoy JUST affection.

BV - Hang in there, you are doing fine.

RAP - Sweetie - I know you feel like this is a big mess that will never end. But please keep on keeping on. You are "addicted", there is no way around it. You will start to get healed, when there is NC.

I like your husband, but the anger has got to go. I am like you, and cannot stand it. You see that he downplays it, and says it is not that bad, even while you are saying it is.

Have you gotten anything done around the house that you wanted to get done?

Runawaypot: JustLearning is correct. It was your choices that got you to this stage in your life.

You are not a bad person, a s!ut or a wh0re, you're just a person who made bad choices. You're human. And you know what, God forgives. You need to now forgive yourself, ask God to forgive you. You need to CHOOSE to work on yourself AND your marriage. (I'm not talking about working out, I'm talking about reading books, the articles of this website, stuff like that to improve who you are.)

Now at this time, you don't know if NC will have you back. You have hurt him bad. Understand that. Also, remember that time heals all wounds. Now I'm not saying sit around and wait for him, because only he knows how bad you have hurt him. But be ready, because you never know when the opportunity will arise to take back your marriage

You said you have hit rock bottom. Hurts like he!! doesn't it. Well, the good news is the only place is up from here.

I'd like to offer you a recommendation. Please take me up on it(preferably when your mind is a little clearer-like tomorrow). But go back and re-read this whole thread. See what you have gone through. See how you lied to yourself and everyone here with your words. But also see how you are growing. Learn from this. And keep a notebook handy while you are reading. Take notes, see if you can learn something then come tell us what you found.

Next, formulate that plan to recover your marriage. It will be tough, especially not knowing what NC wants to do. But write it down, do the best you can. Include in this plan, what you want from your marriage. If you haven't gone through the Emotional Needs questionaire on this site, do it. Be prepared if NC comes back.

One other thing, you've had a couple of comments that said about SF, just do it. Don't even worry about that until NC brings it up. Because, it's going to be a little while until he is even ready to consider that after how you've just betrayed him. (But all the same be ready, you'll know when it's right.)

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
Rich

RAP you said in NC's thread...

Well, my decision for the last coulple days has been how do I end my life without hurting my 3DSs.

Feelings of suicide should be treated with same urgency of that of the onset of a cardiac arrest.

Call your regional suicide hotline and talk these feelings through.

People care.

Max

RH,

Just wanting to respond to your post. Again, thank you for helping NCW.

Please don’t take this wrong.

You need to CHOOSE to work on yourself AND your marriage. (I'm not talking about working out, I'm talking about reading books, the articles of this website, stuff like that to improve who you are.)

Believe it or not, I understand you mean studying up on marriage and what to do and not “working out.” SHeeesh. I am not as shallow as you may think. God this hurts. Am ready for all the 2x4s I will now get.

You also said:

But go back and re-read this whole thread. See what you have gone through. See how you lied to yourself and everyone here with your words.

Believe it or not, I have not intended to lie on this thread. I will look it over tomorrow with open eyes to see if I have lied to myself and others. As low as I have gotten, I have tried to tell the truth, even though it has often come out later instead of before.

Believe it or not, a lot of my struggles have come because the truth is so important to me.

I do not pretend to know Hs pain. I guess I have finally understood that.

But what OM has done since Saturday has definitely added to my pain. Yes, a pain of my own making. But pain all the same. It just shows me what worth I truly do have.

anyways, as I was saying, what kind of cookie dough????

Sorry, I need to know. I'm starving here.

KY

RAP -

Hope you are still around. Some people might bring out the 2x4's, but not me. I too have made many mistakes, and not followed the program.

I have done lots of LB'ing, threw the Christmas presents out in the street, etc. I did not mean to do it, but did anyway.

I think we all need to get on the "Woman of Excellence" program, and stay on it. We can help each other through this. Although we are on opposite sides of this thing, I'm sure the Lord is not pleased with either of us.

So let's all start MOVING FORWARD.

chocolate chip cookie dough! Is there any other kind?

Oh, the comfort of cookie dough. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

I had better go. I am definitely not all with it tonight.

Time for another bowl...

Have fun on your twisted thread.

Thanks believer.

Not feeling quite as hopeful as you tonight.

I appreciate you though!

RAP - you know how to get your self worth back? Focus on your marriage, not yourself.

DO NOT have contact with OM again, ever - and tell his wife. Who cares what she thinks, if she believes you or not. Who cares what OM's reaction might be, TELL HER!!!!!

I know it's tough, I know it kills but you have to make a decision and now. Either you are in this marriage or you are out. Cut and dry, no gray area. If you choose to stay in then stop your current behavior, get some serious counseling, and CHANGE!

You have the power RAP to make this right, the question is do you really want to???

I love ya, I really do, but this hurts me so bad reading all the pain and suffering going on between you and your husband.

You can't change your hubby, but you can change yourself and be the best damned person you can be. You have it in you, I know you do.

Dammit, do I need to put on that cheerleading costume again? It was too tight!!! I will if need be but you have to as well!

chackler -

Yep, put on that cheerleader costume - it may be tight, but we need you!

How is your situation going?

Hey Believer!

You know, I was never into cheerleading, maybe that's why the costume is too tight! I was always one of the party people during high school.

I'm doing pretty good actually. Withdrawals are getting much better to deal with. I had a dream about OM last night and breaking contact but it was just a dream thank goodness.

Hubby and I have had 4 days together for the holiday. We kind of needed it because June was so busy we didn't really have a lot of time to ourselves and our wounds are still raw ya know? It was wonderful with it just being "us" this weekend.

I made brandy pecan sause and canned strawberry jam. Canning is easy but you have to follow the directions exactly or it won't set. I'm fairly new at it so it's still hit and miss. My plum jam set up perfect but the strawberry jam is kind of runny. I'm going to market it as a strawberry topping for ice cream though! At least it won't go to waste...

How was your weekend believer and everyone else?

Chackler - My weekend was very nice. We had a block party with all the neighbors, with plenty of food, beer and a pinata for the kids.

My sister called, we are planning a trip to Europe, so that is exciting.

I think I will take up canning. I like to stay busy. I have already painted the house, rearranged everything, organized, did the yard, etc.

I love to cook, so maybe canning would be fun.

Glad you and hubby are doing well. Too bad about the dream. Hopefully you will start having happy dreams soon.

RAP-

How are you doing now? Do you have any plans on how to help yourself, and your marriage? Or are you too upset to do anything?

We are here for you, and hoping that you will soon be able to get some closure and hope.

RAP -

I've been watching you post back and forth on NC's thread. Pep is one of the experts here and has really helped me. You might want to learn some information from her.

She is a "tell it like it is" type of person. You may not be ready for that. But her advice is usually very, very good.

Dear all.

Kids just left for school and all out. Have just logged on.

I realise a lot must have gone on last night after I had gone to bed. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

I checked NC’s thread and then ‘Moving Forward’ thread. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

Guess I just don’t know what to say…

Dear RAP,

Believer said :

“RAP - Let us pick you up, and dust you off. You can do this. You are a good woman and mother. And you can be a good wife again. Don't be so hard on yourself. We care for you.”

I second that.

You did right to confess what happened on Saturday. You could have kept it to yourself, but the fact you didn’t shows that you ‘needed to say’. If I put myself in that position as you, it would hurt and cut through, by having to now get the replies on it, BUT (and remember we are still hot on the path of that elusive Proverbs 31 lady)….
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Proverbs says “Better the wounds of a faithful friend, than the kiss of an enemy” ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Your friends are the ones who care about you on here. I thought to myself “wow” how is she taking all these strong words, but they are wounds of faithful friends. Friends who want to see you restored in God, in marriage Recovery with NC, and not letting the A with OM carry on.

You have strong words in love, gentle words in love, all given by people who care. I guess I find gentle words in love easier to take but sometimes I need strong words in love.

Both your and NC’s pain must be great at this time.

Time for us both to put definite plan to paper now. We have to RAP.. Mine is just a couple of things, but from today I am going to try my best.

Kas’s daily check list (in order to start moving forwards..)

At the end of each day I am going to check the box if I accomplished it..

1. Maintain NC. Vital. Start from today RAP. Really Vital you do it now

2. Read Bible and follow a daily reading plan (am using “Word for Today” by Bob Gass) This has been about finding your self worth back in God. As it says:

“In order to gain a true sense of self-worth, you must first understand how God feels about you” (How will we know unless we read His word) The enemy will do ALL he can to prevent us from doing this, because He knows the power in God’s word. He will keep you from it by telling you “It’s too late, you’ve gone too far, and there is no restoration for you…You cant make it” DON’T LISTEN TO HIM RAP..You can make it and there is restoration.

“Serving God, is the pathway to joy and fulfilment. It is through a ministry that we find meaning. As we serve God’s purposes, our lives take on eternal importance. We can make no excuses to God as to why we can’t serve him anymore…..

He goes on to say about King David’s A with Bathsheba. He repented. God restored and called him a ‘man after his own heart’…

This is where us proverbs 31 ladies start to make an input…David had A. David should have been with the kings in battle but chose to stay at home (nothing personal meant to hurt you here, because you already confessed staying at home made you more vulnerable and you wanted to see OM anyway).. We know the story after that.

David NEVER confessed immediately. God had to send Nathan the prophet to him.

What happened in the end of David’s life? God called him “a man after his own heart”.

We can be there too RAP.

We need to be. If we don’t we will sink in the mire and the devil will destroy us. He is using OM to destroy you. Don’t let the devil win you in this way.

3. Stop Drinking (exercise, garden, go out – but don’t drink)

These are the three things I need to do most in my life.

The ‘inner me’ needs to re-connect with God. Seek Ye First the kingdom of God and all these things will be added to you.

There is pain and hurt between you and NC.

There is frustration between me and my H.

I believe in getting the inner me sorted out with God and re-committing my life to Him, and asking him for strength and wisdom on how to get my ‘house’ back in order.

I read this morning:
“Blessed are those whose strength is in you,
who have set their hearts on seeking you,
As they pass through the valley of Baca (weeping),
They make it a place of springs,
The autumn rains also cover it with pools of blessings,
They go from strength to strength
Till each appears before God in Zion”

RAP you CAN turn this place of weeping (your valley of Baca) into a spring.

Work on a plan. A small plan of action.

First at the top start with NC as from TODAY.

Don’t make a big list to get discouraged. Just a small one.

I care about you and realize that we have both come to a decision point. We need to do this list and stick to it. We can do it RAP.

I am made a decision yesterday not to buy drink and bring it into this house again, because it will become my downward spiral and weakness in my situation, and the devil knows that.

I have done the second thing on my list (besides the first),

I am now going out to exercise. I started exercising last night, and I realise that it is the key in my situation to not drink. The more I drink, the more I will not be able to exercise.

I will be thinking of you all on this thread as I go about today, and will post again later.

Chackler… Hi. Glad you had a good weekend. Thinking of you too.

Dear KY4. You said

“BV, I read some where that we would all like a tropical vacation with our OP to say a "good" good bye. Isn't that so true.

“I believe saying good bye one last time, is just a way to keep hanging on. It is hard to think that for the rest of our lives NC with the OP needs to be for the better of our M and ourselves.”

Thanks for your honest post, BUT KNOCK IT OFF!!!

Don't give him the ball, then when contact is made you can say, he called me, don't do it, oh wait you all ready did. Change your #.”

You are right. I know I did the wrong thing. I put myself in a position where I now was ‘hoping’ for a txt. What a stupid thing to do.

Bye all for now,

Kas

Broken Vessel - Good to hear from you again. You live in a strange country - sending kids to school at 2:00 in the morning. We are all still supposed to be in bed here. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Your exercise program will help you. I try to exercise everday, and really miss it when I don't.

I think you are right about moving on. I'm going to make up a checklist too. Good night.

RAP,

I know that all God's commands are spiritual, but I'm not. Isn't this also your experience? Yes, I'm full of myself- after all, I've spent a long time in sins' prison. What I don't understand about myself is that I decide one way, but then I act another, doing things I absolutely despise. So if I can't be trusted to figure out what is best for myself and then do it, it becomes obvious that God's command is necessary.
But I need something more! For if I know the law but still can't keep it, and if the power of sin within me keeps sabatoging my best intentions, I obviously need help! I realize that I don't have what it takes. I can WILL it, but I can't DO it. I decide to do good, but I don't really do it; I decide not to do bad, but then I do it anyway. My decisions, such as they are, don't result in actions. Something has gone wrong deep within me and gets the better of me every time.
It happens so regularly that it's predictable. The moment I decide to do good, sin is there to trip me up. I truly delight in God's commands, but it's pretty obvious that not all of me joins in that delight. Parts of me covertly rebel, and just when I least expect it, they take charge.
I've tried everything and nothing helps. I'm at the end of my rope. Is there no one who can do anything for me?

The answer, Thank God, is that Jesus Christ can and DOES. HE acted to set things right in this life of contradictions where I want to serve God with all my heart and mind, but am pulled by the influence of sin to do something totally different.

The law always ended up being used as a band-aid on sin instead of a deep healing of it. And now what the law code asked for but we couldn't deliver is accomplished as we, INSTEAD OF REDOUBLING OUR OWN EFFORTS, simply embrace what the spirit is doing in us.
Those who think they can do it on their own end up obsessed with measuring their own moral muscle but never get around to exercising it in real life. Those who trust GOd's action in them find that God's spirit is in them. Obsession with self in these matters is a dead end; attention to God leads us out into the open, into a spacious, free life.

It's the Word of faith that welcomes God to go to work and set things right for us. Say the welcoming word to God -"Jesus is my Master"- embracing body and soul, God's work of doing in us what he did in raising Jesus from the dead. That's it. You're not "doing" anything; you're simply calling out to God, trusting him to do it for you.

**********

Who do you know that REALLY knows you, knows your heart? And even if they did, is there anything they would discover in you that you could take credit for? Isn't evrything you HAVE and everything your ARE sheer gifts from God? So what's the point of all this comparing and competing? You already have all you need.

Rap,
The above was not something I wrote. It could have been my thoughts and words...it could have been ANYONE'S thoughts and words. And it IS everyone's thoughts and words. Do you recognize it? The Apostle Paul, from Romans. This translation is from The Message .

The truth is, that no matter how hard we try not to do wrong and to do good, we fail. UNLESS....we stop trying....say "LOOK, GOD....I CANNOT DO THIS! I AM TIRED AND WEARY AND I AM ALWAYS MESSING UP! PLEASE DO IT FOR ME! TAKE OVER AND FIX THIS MESS I MADE!"

That's what I did. And it does work.
I don't know how, but it does.

Love you,
Julie

Rap,

Also wanted to apologize to you....I know that my words were harsh. I am not usually like that. See, whenever I try to "fix" things, I screw up - royally. The same thing happened as Recovering H and I tried to pick up the pieces. No matter what I decided to do, even when it made perfect sense to me, it didn't work...in fact, seemed to always make things worse. I gave up. I told God if He wanted this to work out, HE was going to have to fix it. I could not. I THOUGHT that what I was doing would help. I THOUGHT I was doing the right things. Boy, was I wrong!
You already are "right with God"...not because of your own efforts, though. Because of HIS. HE is the One who makes things right. HE is the one who makes you "right" with him.

As soon as I stopped trying to fix things, God was able to move in. That is it. Nothing more, nothing less. And it was enough. I cannot take any credit for doing what it took to get us to a turning point. I did NOTHING.

Rap, we are no better than you...not one of us.

Please forgive me.

Julie

RAP,

I know you're there. Thank God.

Julie

Dear RAP,

Have just got back. Came straight in to log on and see if you have posted.

Please please please please post..I am worrying about you, (and I have no chocolate or cookie dough in the house as a bandaid)..

I need to know you are ok? Please post.

We both went to pieces in a way over the weekend.

I just sat there Saturday night (after drinking), and cried and cried. I know where you are in your thoughts.

Yes I had the same ones. I could see no way out of feeling like I did. I drank and cried, and cried and drank and my thoughts were all over the place.

Sunday night I stayed at home and followed the same pattern.

I want to encourage you NOT TO GIVE UP ON YOURSELF. You are a special and caring person. I have seen the posts that you have sent to others on the board trying to encourage them too.

You have reached out to others, just like Believer is in her situation.

I have been there with the suicidal thoughts. Emotions everywhere, Feeling you are really going to crack up this time.

Please post.

I am staying in now, so will keep checking this thread.

Please post.

Kas (can't cope with the Proverbs 31 lady at the moment...need you to join forces with me!) We'll show her what modern day women can do too! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Please post.

Please post.

Please post.

Please post.

Will keep checking.

Kas <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

BV,

RAP was a visitor to the "OM's two OW: Would you tell " within the past hour, so she's here. She may be trying to work up the nerve to post or even read this thread. I've been waiting and watching for three hours now.

Julie

Dear RAP,

Am still here checking for a reply. Please post.

Am waiting and worried.

Please post.

Kas <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

Dear onlywords,

Thanks for letting me know.

Am glad.

RAP....

Am getting a 'numb' posteria (don't know the latin word for it) sitting on this computer chair....

Will keep NAGGING AND NAGGING AND NAGGING unitl you post...

please post.

please post.

It matters to us all that you post.

We want you to.

We need to hear from you.

My kids get home from school soon, so I may not have much computer time left, and I will be going frantic if haven't heard by the time I have to go out later.

Please say something.

Please.

Kas <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

Rap I heard a rumor, is it true???

Are you really playing hard to get???

Come on your killing BV, post all ready
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD!!

Chocolate chip, my favorite! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

come on love, we want to hear you are okay, or that your not okay.

OMG your not with OM are you?? You better post before we all start thinking that. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Just trying to smoke you out.

come on post, all BV's whining is hurting my ears. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

KY

Hi all again, <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

KY4 your post made me laugh... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

BUT... I ain't done with the whining yet... (and I don't mean the sort in a bottle) <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

RAP please post
please post
please post

My derriere (don't know how to spell it) is getting glued to this computer chair... <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

I have no band aid at all in this house, only what I am cooking for tea...spicy bean burgers or quiche? <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

Really could do with some chocolate..I found the secret hiding place of my 18yr old boy's chocolate he had for his b.day...

Ha and he thought I wouldnt find it.. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

But I am the SUPREME chocolate finding outer...It will not elude me if it is in this house...

All gone now, and I ain't got any here at all...

Please post RAP

please post RAP

please post RAP

I will get kicked off this thread soon and will have nowhere else to go to...

please post

Will be back again soon to say....

that's right you got it....

PLEASE POST

Kas <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

RAP -

Where are you sweetie? (I hope you are painting and fixing the house, I think you are)

onlywords -

That is my favorite bible verse, Romans 7 something, sorry can't remember exactly, but I practically have the whole thing memorized. It has helped me countless times, to know that even Paul struggled like I do.

BV - Well I stayed up late watching for RAP, but she was involved in a discussion with pep. Maybe she has forgotten how much we care about her. Think I will get the jug out - and it's early morning here!

Jelly - Tell cellophane that there are more people reading his thread than he thinks. I don't post because I get such a laugh out of the spontaneity there. You all move too fast for me.

Dear Believer,

Hello.

Am just on the pc inbetween cooking tea and reading my book which came today "Torn Asunder".

Glad you are there.

Have just done a post on the 'pity party' thread as RAP has been there today.

I hope she feels she can post here soon.

How are you doing today. Do you work?

Thanks for being around

Kas <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

BV- Yep, I work at a Naval Hospital - but I took the week off to do some work around the house. Making progress, but also glued to the computer waiting for Miss RAP, one of the proverbs 31 women, to check in with us.

Of course I don't blame her, because she has tried to be honest and taken a lot of flak for it. But don't worry, we will sniff her out like a bunch of old hound dogs.

sniff, sniff, sniff, where is she?

RAP,

You said <blockquote>quote:<hr />Why tell the truth? I am where I am at because of my actions. Yes , it is me!

Why did I tell my husband about it? Why did I come here and post about it on Saturday? Why did I not lie?

I thought because it was the right thing to do.

Too little too late I guess.

Lying does not seem so bad if telling the truth(because I am in trouble and do want to keep my H) gets where we are now.

I am not trying to be rude. But I did not choose to lie. I could have. I could have hidden my going back. I did not.
<hr /></blockquote>You are right your truthfulness is a very positive thing. It is something you should be proud of.

However, (you knew this was coming <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> ) why are you having a hard time with honesty while clearly placing a high value on truthfulness??

The honesty I am talking about is the internal honesty. First and foremost you must be honest with yourself, THEN you must be honest with your H.

You are lying to yourself even to the extent that you don't believe your sons will be harmed. You know that this is not true. I would also like to ask you what sort of men would you like your Son's to grow up to be? What sort of an example are you setting for them? Would you like some woman to treat them as you have treated your H? Do you want them to grow up with the values of the OM?

You have decisions to make, and in my mind the most important one that you must make is how you are going to lead your life. Before anything else can be done, you must make that decision. You need decide what type of human being you are going to be, what sort of W you are going to be, what sort of mother you are going to be?

We know you want to do the best you can. But, knowing what you want, is not the same thing as doing it. You are setting an example for your children right now, and it is not pretty.

So I want to encourage you to stop, take some deep breaths, pray if that is your inclination,and settle yourself. Act, talk, plan not out of fear, or anger, but out of what is best for your children, yourself, and your H. You need to talk with him calmly. You need to realize he has tried and is trying to do his best, but he is having a hard time controlling his emotions and feelings.

Not withstanding what you have said all of your actions have indicated that you WANTED to send him off with the kids so you could get back together with OM, IN YOUR FAMILY HOME. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> You can say otherwise but your actions in discussing going with him before he left and after he left indicate a premeditated plan to betray him once again.

You need to address your actions, you need to make plans and act on them as discussed with your H. You need to not only to be truthful, you need to be honest with yourself and him from now on.

You may well have thrown away your family for OM, that is a fact, but I hope and the others here hope that is not the case.

Please think about this.

God Bless,

JL

Yikes, no RAP. Did she go to a nunnery? Wish she would check in with us.

oops

[ July 06, 2004, 04:53 PM: Message edited by: kyellow4 ]

Still no Rap, she really knows how to play hard to get.

I'm guessing she exploded from all that cookie dough she ate last night.

BV - here's to you,

Please post Rap,
please,
please,
please

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> KY

DearKY4,

Well I am half asleep and husband has gone to bed, but I said I just had to do a couple more replies on here first (he understood),

Thanks for doing that for me KY4! A few hours has lapsed now so can re -do again myself!!

When I am asleep with my teddy (my little teddy bear that is!!) perhaps you could hold the fort and keep saying the mantra

please post rap
please post rap
please post rap
please post rap

Do you think you can get this EXCACTLY rightfor me? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

Well sob sob didn't have time to get my choc fix before the study tonight (was too busy talking to you guys so your fault!!) <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Actually I did drive like a mania driven freek to the garage after the bible study to get it. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Think Minister must have thought - wow my message has really driven her on..Didn't have heart to tell him it was chocolate all the way!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Well am just going to post to JL now and submit to my 4x4'ss... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Take care and love you all - really! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

please post rap
please post rap
please post rap

Areyou mad at me because I also agreed with NC about better for you to move away because of NC?
Are you mad at me for sayin this??

Kas <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

Broken Vessel: Trying to help, what have you done for your marriage today? Keep us posted, I'll be back after supper.

Take care,
RH

Dear RH,

Well this morning I did a list of three things which I feel are essential to me, and my husband really wants to see me move on in them:

1. Maintain NC each day and in anyway. Ie no texts, phone calls, calling round on pretense

2, Read and pray to realise my true selfworth is found in God first. H encouraging me to do this.

3. Bring NO alcoholic drink of any kind in this house.. He is most adamant on this, as he knows it is a weakness since Confession day.

We have also had a good talk just a short while ago, about comments on that book Torn Asunder and how I feel about things too, and how he realises he needs to make changes to me as well.

I think today for me is a bit more positve.

Thanks for asking. Appreciate it.

Take care both of you,

Kas <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

BV, sounds like a great list to me. I'm glad your doing well today.

Now crush that phone that the OM has access to, so there will be NC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I still haven't posted my favorite meal to you. I will get on that. Was that a cruel joke from you because I'm STARVING????????

I'm taking a Unisom tonight so I can sleep, what about you????

I love you guys too
KY

Forgive me all.

I did not mean to worry you.

The last couple days have been so painful that I cannot put it into words.

I am not asking for pity, it has just totally worn me out.

I slept half the day today. There was just no real reason (at the time) to get up.

I have not done any of my projects. All I have been able to do is gut-wrenching crying and taking in where my life is right now.

I am not used to being without my family. I don't think I have ever been alone like this in all our 13 years.

It has been painful, but also good. I truly miss them. I am seeing what they really are to me.

I have NOT seen OM since Saturday.

My friend invited me to the pool with her and her kids, and I stayed as long as I could.

I have felt very close to losing my sanity. I cannot explain it. I have been frightened by the realization of everything. Really.

It is a good thing, though. I am ready to move on.

The other thing I have come face to face with while being alone here is how horribly messed up my emotions are with this OM.

There is no logical reason for this attatchment. It is literally driving me out of my mind.

I have normally been a very intelligent person. What in the world has happened to my self-control?

Why is it I can know what is healthy mentally, but there is a raging war against that sane part?

I honestly feel absolutely at a loss. I am really frightened.

I know it is unrealistic, but I would love to go back and erase all of this and not be dealing with this ridiculous addiction. No need to get into what OM is like, it just makes it all the more ridiculous.

Anyway, I know I am not addressing anyone's post in particular right now.

I am sorry. I do appreciate all of you.

BV, You are a silly one. Sorry to worry you.

You all mean a lot to me, I just feel more lost than I can say.

I am supposed to cling to my H now and focus on him. That is the right thing. It will be difficult because he is so hurt. I will do my best to do this now.

I have an IC appointment for Thursday. I realize I really could use some help. It is hard to admit, but I am at my wits end.

I got sick on cookie dough and wine last night. What a mix. I have to admit I do not regret it!

H called while I was typing this. The trip (even the separation) has been good for both of us. Except for me seeing OM. He says he is seeing things he did not understand as am I.

It is hard for me to explain here, but I wish you all could know all the details surrounding the R with OM. NOt to glorify it, but so you could see how much I am realizing the self-destructive nature of it. His interest is not like mine. That is a good thing. It is very painful, but it is forcing me to see what a mess my thinking is around OM. It is hard to believe I will ever be able to think well of myself again. OM does not value me like I would want, and I see what I have been capable of.

I know H has stood by. Somehow, I know the value of my actions have lowered his opinion of me too. Obviously. I will try to love my family and learn to love myself again.

Why do we desire love from those who do not give it to us freely? At least that is me. I don't get it. Will someone please come do brain surgery on me?

I am trying to be honest here. I am not asking for pity. I do not want sympathy. I just do feel so alone and afraid I will never come out of this.

I am sure I will see more clearly soon?

Thanks for listening to the ramblings.

If I do not post regularly, please know I am okay. I cannot tolerate where I am now, and I want to come back when I can talk a little more sanely <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Thank you all so very much for your support. I really don't have the words to say, except NCW and I love you for your selflessness. You are all a great example.

BV,

Is your heiny still numb? Sorry about that. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> You are still MY inspiration.

Pam

JL,
Thank you for taking the time to share your input. I have heard what you said. Thank you.

ok Jelly and BV...speaking of no sleep....I got to sleep at 2:30 this morning and had to get up at 5:30 to get ready for work!!! I don't like insomnia <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> My brain was on major overload <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

RAP...you have such a long thread going here. Can you fill me in on what's going on.

Lisa103,

What is going on is I have completely lost my sanity. Yea, that's about it.

Really, what would you like to know?

What this thread is about or what is going on with me? Or both?

Pam

YES YES AT LAST!!

I actually am staying up later tonight and just made coffee and found a bunch of the kids choc biscuits so here I am guys!

Infact I had just about given up and have taken my sleepingtablet (Zopiclone)so mytyping maybe all over place.

I have normally been a very intelligent person. What in the world has happened to my self-control?

Same as me RAP. That is whathappend. Look at me how I lost my self control…

I was a respected memberof church involved in all areas of ministry
I worked (secretarial) for OM who was (man of cloth)
My H on the church board
No one knew my terrible deceptive life.

Up to that point I was serving God fully and loving Him with all my heart…ButI realized that no oneis safe from an A. We should all learn from this.
Both of us have to do this.

Well done for having NC since Saturday RAP> I think that is great and a real positive thing for you to have maintained.

You say you have not SEEN OM since last Sat. Have you talked with him, emailed him, txted him?

We both know this is still contact…. Haveyou dear RAP.?

The other thing I have come face to face with while being alone here is how horribly messed up my emotions are with this OM.

You are having a stage 11 A (emotionally entangled) which I am too (Have you read torn asunder). This explains why it is so difficult to detached yourself emotionally for him.Metoo.

Why is it I can know what is healthy mentally, but there is a raging war against that sane part?

Heart vs head head vs heart…. All the time. Your head knows what to do, but your heart wont accept what needs to be done to release you from your source of pain – OM

BV, You are a silly one. Sorry to worry you.

Don’t worry. I know I am crazy.

I have an IC appointment for Thursday. I realize I really could use some help. It is hard to admit, but I am at my wits end.

Will be really praying for you. Hang in there. You will come through this.

Ps what happened to some cookie dough for me? Do you guys eat the dough or cook it first?? Just an ignorant foreigner trying to make sense of it!! Me that is!

OM does not value me like I would want, and I see what I have been capable of.

We do though, God does, and your H does. Let OM go. His opinions doesn’t count. I have to do the same.

Us Proverbs 31 ladies don’t want to be carrying any baggage on our way to meeting her…We can start with nothing and will make things right again. WE WILL!

Why do we desire love from those who do not give it to us freely? At least that is me. I don't get it. Will someone please come do brain surgery on me?

Our H want our love yet our desire is still for that OM with us. We both need brain surgery in this. It will get rooted out, God will root it out and do our brain surgery. We have to be willing though.

Are we ready to now say….Yes God. I need it rooted out now.I will cooperate in whatever you think is best in order for it to be accomplished in my life?

BV,
BV,

Is your heiny still numb? Sorry about that. You are still MY inspiration.

I knew there was another word for the ‘rear’end!! I just couldn’t think of it. I need an American phrase book to have. That will be fun. Would love that!

Yes it is numb….However I can now go and get 40 winks because have seen you are ok.

Please do a list like I have done?
Please put No Contact in whatever form on the top of it

Dear Lisa,

Sorry you are on overload with the sleep thing. I understand. I have been there. Thanks for being around. Hope you will stick to NC and not get into an explanation of anything and anykind with OM when you leave work will you??

What of that other ‘work person’ who tried to get you to speak to him privately?

Take care,

Well guys that’s it now….Am headed for the sack and will read all your posts in the morning.

Take care,

And you now are free from my ranting on….

RAP

Please post
Please post
Please post!!!

Love you all. You will be friends for ever in my heart for being through this hard and dark period of my life with me,

Kas
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

BV,

I have not read all your post.

You are too nice.

I just posted to "staring a new thread" that madmax sent out.

I do not feel welcome here.

I have not meant some things the way they were taken.

I care about you a lot, but I will not expose myself like this. I can't do it.

Love,
Pam

PLease, please forgive me. I am not trying to get you to ask me to stay.

YOu are wonderful BV and others. I don't need to be here.

Take care and please know we will be okay. I am sure NCW will stay around, as he does need you all.

Lots of love,
Pam

Dear RAP,

Can you believe I am still glued with my heiny(?) to this computer chair?

Will you post somewhere else?

Am just sad because we have all got used to that thread now and Believer checks on us everyday, and well, I want you to know you areneeded?

What if there are others reading this thread and who have beenfollowing your story before joining
MB's (as I did with FL thread), then suddenly someone disappears?

You are helping loads of people RAP.

Please tell me at least where you will post, but i really want you to stay here??

Am falling asleep now, so will checkagain in the morning...

Am going to pray for you now as I turn off the pc

Am still sad and winey about you going,and KY4 will have a real bad earache if you go.

Kas <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

Hi to all-
RAP- what you have done-
it could have happened to
any of us WW. we are no
different in our weaknesses.
you have been so truthful &
that is admirable. It is easy
to lie-so much harder to give
the truth & no what may happen
because of it. I did that for
6 months-kept the truth from
my H. I couldnt carry the burden
anymore-it was just too much.
you know you are struggling-
we here that-we want to be here
thru this for you-it is not
about happy posting all the time-
sometimes it just helps to vent
& know that others care-we care.
I have said many many times- I
know for my withdrawal it is so
fortunate that OM I had A w/ lives
so far away. I cant imagine the
cotinual temptation-I just cant.
you are human-but guess what??!!
God still loves you-
& so do your friends....
take care of yourself girlfriend-
pal

RAP...What is going on with you personally. My eyes are too tired to read over the 400+ posts here!!

RAP -

Glad to see you are okay. When you are "addicted", your brain chemicals actually change - no need for brain surgery, because they will change back with NC.

For all the rest of the insomniacs here, my doctor told me to take benedryl (the anti-histamine) to sleep. It works very well.

I'm off work this week and supposed to be doing things around the house. I did get stuff done today, finally.

Hope everyone else is doing okay. We will all get through this together.

ok believer....I am really jealous of you!! It would be wonderful to have this week off except for the fact that it is absolutely hot as hades here in Georgia right now!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

Lisa -

I live in California by the ocean. It is very comfortable here.

To answer you question about RAP - she is not doing well at all. Going through a really tough time.

I am so sorry to hear that. I'll have to catch up on her thread to see what's gone on. Thanks

Dear All, <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Good morning! (well I think I am awake, as I finally peeled my heiny off this computer chair about 1am this morning and woke up not long ago)

Dear PAL,

I love how you do your posts. Full of encouragement and hope for each of us. You are a real encouragement in your posts. Please keep sending them.

Dear Believer,

I haven’t heard of your ‘sleeping potion’ over here. The one I use (zopiclone) seems to work well with me.Doc not happy I have been on these for so long though, but it means the difference of getting sleep at all or not.

Glad you have a week off, and hope you will be able to get some things done.

Am jelous of both you and Lisa where you live! I love HOT HOT HOT weather, and I love the SEA.

Well, here I am at the start of a new day….(and my 3 item survival list again) <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

I have read bible just now
I am still maintaining NC (though still thinking of OM)
I never drank AT ALL yesterday! (my first breakthrough) <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Only the second day of my new ‘compiled’ list, so I know am in early days.

Guess you are all ‘asleep’ now.. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

Wish I could zap you all into my time zone!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Guess will have to wait till you wake up… <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

TIME TO GET UP
TIME TO GET UP
TIME TO GET UP

Kas misses you all!!
<img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

Broken Vessel -

I am still up - on vacation now, and I love to stay up late, late, late.

Don't worry about thinking about OM, your brain chemicals are off right now, but will soon be back to normal.

My WH's OW's BH came by today and talked to me. He is doing okay. He has moved on and seems to have a good attitude. It has been hard for him because his wife moved out and left him with a 12 year old daughter.

Hi Believer,

You must be very tired now!

Thanks for your post.

Sometimes I wake up with a good positive feeling and others (like today) I seem to wake up with that dreaded 'sinking' feeling of the situation I am involved with.

Can I be honest?

I am struggling because I actually miss working with OM. I enjoyed the secretarial side and his joking personality and on my bad days I wish it could all go back to how it was before I got involved with A.

I really am struggling with what Susan was saying to Lisa on her 'new job thread'... I want to go poking back into that hornets nest.

The hornets nest hurt so much but I miss it. It filled and consumed me for 16 months. It is truly hard to break from.

Hurts he has moved on. I know if I could get another job I enjoy things may improve for me.

I have given up all my ministry in the church because of what I have done.

I am empty with nothing now.

Each day I Feel I have no purpose any more.

I enjoyed my work.

Sorry am getting a bit tearful.

Pain of withdrawal feels bad today.

Maybe it is because I am also suffering withdrawl symptoms from the drink now too.

At this point I would start to drink when I feel like this.

I wish I could just contact him and get an answer.

Sorry I know I am a bit crazy today.

Will have to come off pc now. Am quite upset about things.

Dont worry.

Will post again later.

Kas <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

Dear RAP,

Incase you come to this thread, I just have to say HELLO.

Please keep hanging in there.

What did you think of JL' list last night? You said you were going to print it off too.

It has helped me see things from H point of view in a way which I didn't before.

However, today I am in a bit of a mess emotionally again and have put out a call for JL to 'talk to me straight'.

I am feeling the withdrawal from OM bad today.

I am feeling I have no purpose. Really miss my work in church.

I know I have to overcome this.

I am still reading in the morning, and haven't bought any drink into house, and haven't made C although I always struggle coming up to weekend.

Confess I miss working with him.

Am going to read some more of my book 'torn assunder' which came yesterday.

Please hang in there too.

Thinking of you.

Praying for you.

Kas <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

Broken Vessel -

My girl, you can do ministry again. See if you can look around and find a similar job. When you get through this you will be an expert in marriage building, and we sure need more people in that area.

Are you doing any nice things for yourself?

RAP - Are you around?

Whew. Anyone here? I am really having a hard time with RAP not posting her. NC Walker says she does not want to post because of all the flak she got.

Hmmm. I do want them to reconcile, but feel like something is missing.

Or should I just get on with painting my porch room and forget it?

I think she just needs some time to sort everything out.

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Gee, I hope so. I hope she is just getting it togehter to post here.

But the red flags go up for me. WC went home to take care of RAP. It was a surprise. Since then,we have not heard from RAP.

I just hope that they are doing fine. I know consistently, NC says the anger is not that bad. But RAP says differently.

Dear Believer, Just answered you on my other thread. Thanks for that intimat advice too.

Hope you get your porch painting done. There is so much decorating going on here it frustrating.

I hope after some 'quality time together'RAP be posting here.

My tblet are mking me drowsy. Have to go now, <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

Love you all loads, <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Loveyo2 RAP.
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
Comeon...This Provrbslady is struggling. The competition is getting higher... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

BV....I'm so sorry that you are having a bad day. You stay away from the hornet's nest!! We forget sometimes that is what has caused us the pain that we are enduring. BV...I also believe that God is preparing you for something beyond anything that you can imagine. I love your name on here....It reminds me of the potter's clay. Let God take the brokenness of your heart and spirit and mold it into something that he can use.

When you get through this valley that you're going through right now you will understand why this was necessary for you to go through. It's been a year for me since d-day and by the grace of God and this web site, I can see where God has done a remarkable work in my heart and my life.

God will use you to minister to others in a way that you could never have before. Sometimes he has to break us in order to mold us into what he wants us to be.

I'm praying for you daily!!

Lisa -

Thanks for posting the beautiful prayer. The Lord will pull us all through, and one day we may even be closer to proverbsladies.

I didn't get the porch done, just the first coat. So there is stuff all over my house. Tomorrow I will finish it. If I stayed off line more, I would probably get more done, but oh well, I'm on vacation.

Brokenvessel-

Hang in there. I am praying for everyone on this thread, and healing for all of us. We can make it through. We will make it through.

Good morning all,

Thanks Lisa for your post. It was a real encouragement to wake up to this morning. Have just logged on and posting before kids get ready for school.

I chose my name 'Broken Vessell' taken from the scene of the potters house in Jeremiah, because that was how I felt when I joined, yet at the same time I wanted something to signify 'hope' that I can be put together and moulded into something new again.

My accountability friend gave me a Christian card recently during my worst early struggles of the scene in the potters house of a pot being re-fashioned by God's mighty handsss.

It says on the card

"as the clay is in the potter's hand, so are you in mine" - Jer 18:6"
Yhe verse inside reads:

"The pieces of my heart,
like shards of fragile clay,
I bring to You, the Potter,
in whose image I am made.

With tenderness and knowing,
You touch my wounded soul,
reshaping shattered dreams,
making broken places whole.

In your gently Potter's hands,
I am molded, made anew,
a work of mercy and compassion,
fashioned in love,
beloved of you"

May the Lord hold you in His hands, gently restoring, powerfully healing...

I have now got this card out again in front of the pc. I needed this reminded Lisa. I believe God gave you those words to remind me today.

You see, I had 'hidden' the card away thinking I was beyond help. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

You have reminded me that God is saying YOU ARE NOT... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Hope all goes well on your last day.

Please let us know.

Thanks again Lisa,

Kas

Dear Believer,

Thank you as always for being there and your encouragment.

Hope you can get your porch finished today. I will be thinking of you as I am trying to finish some painting in the boys room today too. (It is raining which I am glad of in a way, as I can never stay inside when it is sunny!)

Dear RAP (missn' you!)

I am going to post to you everyday incase you are reading the posts here.

I was debating whether to start my MANTRA up again ie.

please post rap
please post rap
please post rap
please post rap

But I don't want to put you off with my 'wining'.

Hope things are going ok. I guess you guys will need to talk quite a bit which is good.

Hope you have a good time when you go back to FIL and see your DS.

Please know you are a special and caring person, and let's hang on to the 'Potters Wheel' for all our might... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Now there's a man (The Potter) who will help us on our quest to be the Proverbs 31 gals.... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Perhaps we could turn our quest into a Christian version of the Wizard of Oz...

Me - I would be the Scarecrow (look like one this morning too) with the 'glued hiney'..You wouldn't miss me in crowd. Especially when the sun came out and melted it...(the glue I mean not my hiney) couldn't do without my hiney...

Sorry I am rambling again, and not even sure if I spelt hiney right?? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Darn it, where can I get an American phrase book from??? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Well, You know what? I didn't stock up on chocolate yesterday... <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

O well back on my secret mission to try and find the kids chocs.... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Take care,

Love you all,

Kas <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

ps all of you,

going back to this American Phrase Book thing, if someone calls me a Winer, does that mean I am a 'hot dog'?????? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

Don't you have some sort of a funny name for a hot dog like that??? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Also when JL told me (when trying to help me restore passion with H) to:

"run around the house with 'no pants' on, did he mean:

a. Trousers
b. Undergarments

Just a thought .....
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />
Carry on!!

Looking forward to hearing from you guys later
when you get your 'hiney's out of bed... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Kas (in a wierd and crazy mood today)!

BV -

Oh great. I just logged on here and it said there are no users on. What's up with that? I'm here, or maybe I am dreaming.

Didn't get the painting finished, and the whole place is a mess. Too much time on the computer. I will finish it tomorrow.

Hope you have a great day. Sounds like you are more hopeful. Hang in there.

Dear All,

Good morning. Is anyone there??

Kas

Dear all,

Sorry. Everything has become 'too intense' for me at the moment. I need to take a break for a while.

I guess I thought I was doing quite well and working through my feelings and moving forward.

This thread was an important part in my life.

Perhaps some may think that it wasn't 'helpful' to me & RAP but in my opinion it was..

I never viewed it as a 'pity party'. I viewed it as a place to come and start my healing by sharing how I felt.

I then would go over to my other thread and get straight talk from JL & Pep which was an input I really needed.

I feel though that 'this thread' is being discouraged, and I feel it isn't somewhere I can share 'myself' in now.

Sorry if I have ever said anything to hurt any of you in any way or frustrated you by trying to work out my feelings.

Thanks Believer and all of you on here. I want you to know how much I have appeciated you.

Take care.

Still love you all loads <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Kas <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

Hi all. I finally got my painting done (at 1:30 in the morning). It feels great to have it finished. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Hope you are all doing fine, and feeling good. I had a nice break today fishing (I really did go). My son came with me. We caught a bunch of fish, but threw them all back cuz they were too little.

Anyone else doing anything to move forward?

Love you all.

Well, I found this old thread.

I decided to post here because it was the best place I could think of...without taking BV's thread over completely. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I am having a hard day today. I was really hoping I would bring some strength back from Florida. Being in this neighborhood is just getting to me today.

My IC (who is Christian) talked to me a lot about setting my mind on Christ and what He thinks of me, etc. It takes an act of your will to do, not that you will feel like it. I know this, but for the first time, I don't feel capable. Ugh, that feel word again. I am practicing it though, however slowly.

Seems so silly. That is great advice, and I should be able to do it.

I don't have to see OM to feel like cr@p. I don't even understand why. He is not doing anything to me to make me feel bad. I am not seeing him drive by as much (thanks to H and his confrontation).

Just the fact that he is going on and I have days I struggle makes me feel like the biggest loser. At this moment, my thoughts are actually screaming that this guy is a much better, happier, etc. person than me.

Well, enough of that. I have learned from this A that I really have to change my thinking.

I guess I have really always defined myself by what other people think of me.

I have struggled with this before, and now I realize it has to change. I have to change how I feel about myself. I had no idea how poorly I actually felt. Why can't I just change it?

I think my main problem is here is this OM who has chosen to keep this lifestyle, but he seems so da** happy. He seems to just float around in life.

I want to make right choices now, and I am this miserable person. No fun today. Maybe just a down day.

Just needed to vent. I am beginning to see how God can turn this for good. There are things that needed to change in me, and this has just caused me to deal with it.

Blessings to you all today,

Just one day, right? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Pam

RAP you said:

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> I guess I have really always defined myself by what other people think of me. <hr /></blockquote>In an effort to help you through this (and until you learn to value yourself differently), let me give you a few observations that may help you feel good about yourself.

I think that you are a very strong person.

I think that you are determined and willful and will recover your marriage.

Why do I think these things? I have "watched" and read your posts for these last few weeks. You have a dogged determination to understand why you felt the way you did. You wanted to know why. That I believe is a positive quality. Now the way you went about it was a little backwards, but I won't go there.

We all have our up days and down days. Today was one that was a bit down. Look to tomorrow and have faith that it will be better. I think I saw in one of NCW's posts that his roller coaster didn't seem to be riding as high and low lately. How is it for you?

God's blessing to you!
RH

RAP - Forget about what other people think. We love you, your husband and boys love you. That is enough.

When I get down, I count all the blessings I have. That helps to cheer me up.

Also I want to be a proverbs31 woman, and am working on myself.

Good to see you posting again. Also check out the saveyourmarriagecentral board. They have a special section for recovering WW's.

Dear RAP

Just the fact that he is going on and I have days I struggle makes me feel like the biggest loser. At this moment, my thoughts are actually screaming that this guy is a much better, happier, etc. person than me.

You have expressed how I have been struggling and feeling too..

We know we think alike in most things!!

hey, don't forget we are a day nearer to the Proverbs 31 ladies will you!!

Have to go now.

Mr BV is about to post reply to JL THEN READ NC'S POST TO HIM!!!!!!

will post you later,

Soooooooo great to have you back,

I mean loads and loads of great...

Dear Believer,

Am so glad you are there,

please forgive me for not posting much to anyone. I guess by reading through my thread you will all know where I am at in things.

Love you all loads,

Kas <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

"Just the fact that he is going on and I have days I struggle makes me feel like the biggest loser. At this moment, my thoughts are actually screaming that this guy is a much better, happier, etc. person than me."

Think about this....

Do you wish OM were miserable like yourself, and if he were, would you feel happier and feel better about yourself?

This makes no sense.

Does this sound like loving feelings to you? Wishing he were as miserable as you.

Sounds more like dependance, right?

Be joyful.... OM is not miserably unhappy. He is free to enjoy his life without being an adulteror. Celebrate his freedom and his happiness.

To show you care about OM, be joyful that he is not miserable.

And realize ... YOU TOO ARE FREE to enjoy your life. Your happiness belongs to you, independant from OM.

Something else to celebrate!
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Pep

Thank you RH, believer, BV, and Pepperband.

RH,

Thank you for the encouragement. I am still going through more low points than I would like. Especially since I came home.

But, I will not give up. I have not gotten anywhere near as far as I would like with "correct and clear" thinking, but I do know there is only one way out of this...forward...even if it seems soooooo slow.

believer,

I am very blessed. I need to remember that. I have an awesome family. Incredible kids. A H that is a rock.

Thank you. The proverbs 31 woman is WAAAAAAY out there right now, but hey, I can admire her from a distance, huh?

BV,

As always, we understand each other. Hope Mr. BV is okay.

Thanks for the encouragement. You have come a long way. Give yourself a pat on the back, and i know you will keep it up.

Pepperband,

I appreciate your response. Actually, just last night I was praying for OM's happiness. I do want Om and HIS WIFE together to be happy. It helps me to pray for them so I am not bitter.

I did not manage to say correctly what I meant.

OM will repeat what he did with me. In fact, he probably is already looking for who it will be. I did not wish to see this before, but it is true.

My struggle is with the fact that he is able to keep this lifestyle and be so darn happy. He gets away with it and comes across as this great guy. (Even H said he could see what I meant about him. He is very personable.)

Hate to admit it, but I am finally making the right choices. The repurcussions of what i have done are horrible in my M, in myself, etc.

The right path out is causing tremendous turmoil.

He gets to bop along cheating or whatever, and he gets to be happy while doing it.

I know that sounds mean of me. I know it is. I want him to be happy. But I guess I do want him to have to experience some kind of regret or repurcussions in his life.

I guess that is pretty awful. No one said the "right" path was the easier one.

Thanks for all the input.

I really did need it today.

I am hoping this feeling of this huge OM presence will eventually stop influencing my thinking. I never thought I was intimidated by him. But I would say by my reactions now, that I am.

Blessings,

Pam

Do you know the serenity prayer?

Tuck it into a corner of your mind, and when you obsess over things out of your control... repeat the prayer over and over....

Sometimes it takes me 6 go-rounds of the prayer before I release my (imaginary) control over the uncontrolable.

Let go of thinking about OM's fortunes .... God is in control, not us.... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

You are going to be a happy woman... yes, you are.

Pep

Thanks Pepperband.

I do appreciate it. I have a LOOONNG way to go.

But RH is right. I can be willful. Now I just need to use it the correct way.

Thanks,
Pam

I can be willful.

Me too <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

surprise surprise

I think willful is just fine... it just has to be channeled correctly.

Take care...

Pep

Sorry forgot to post this yesterday when I wrote it. Guess better late then never.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />From Pepperband:
..OM is not miserably unhappy. He is free to enjoy his life without being an adulteror. Celebrate his freedom and his happiness.

<hr /></blockquote>Pep,

I could be off base here, but I believe at least a portion of her problen is that she is upset (feeling down, whatever) that the OM IS going to be Happy CONTINUING to be an adulterer (just not with her).
AHH, there's the emotional catch.

It must be a real downer to know they not only can, but ARE moving on without YOU.........Once again out there looking for their next conquest or at the least next Sexual Diversion.

This is just another painful reminder that this relationship was not Ever Really Special, wasn't The "one" or meant to be.
More likely for OM is was just "fun" and Games.
Cause these types do like to play head games.

Unfortunately RAP is having to face that It wasn't ever even really "oh so right"..... it was just Right NOW!(for the OM).

The pain comes from finally realizing that the relationship YOU thought you had, is something Totally different then what the OP always knew it was (even if they mislead you about it).

However, Pep IMO you are RIGHT ON in the thought that if he was unhappy & miserable it would DO NOTHING to change her feelings or situation in the least.
It's like if You happen to be wealthy OR broke...it doesn't affect my Bank account in the least.

RAP: In time you'll see that OM is not your problem, concern, or responsibiltiy. (Nor rescuer or savior).
Truth is He NEVER Was!

OM is gone and has moved on. (Crosses fingers/knocks on wood ... as NCW winces).
He has no further power over you UNLESS you choose to give it to him.
So RAP what is your choice??
To Be stronger and retain your own personal power OR "give" it away Again sooooo cheaply.

(& by the way: To Some one who never even appriciated it anyway). Sad but true.

P.S. Happy to witness you and NCW putting forth such Effort. Keep it up!

Dear RAP,

Have posted to you on other thread, and I will post you on here when I get back later.

Take care,

Love as always,

Thanks for loaning NC to help!

Take care,

Kas <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

"The pain comes from finally realizing that the relationship YOU thought you had, is something Totally different then what the OP always knew it was (even if they mislead you about it). "

I remember getting my hands on a love letter Mr. Pep wrote to OW. (the wife of Mr. Pep's childhood friend)

My H told her all sorts of lovely things... and when I first read the letter, it upset me, because I thought it was "true".

"meant to be together"
"soulmates"
"no matter what happends, we'll always be together one way or another"
"the entire world conspires against us being together"

These affairs are all alike, although the people are all different.

When the A was about 15 months old, the OW had surgery, and she wanted MY HUSBAND to visit her in the hospital. He refused. This is what he said:

"I am not your husband. This relationship is an affair. I don't belong in the hospital when you are sick. Your family belongs by your side. Not me."

The feelings had changed to become an ebb tide. The emotional connection was not lasting.

That's what affairs are. False relationships based on temporary (albeit very real and intense) feelings.

For certain individuals who navigate their lives based on their feelings rather than on their principles, the ebb tide of feelings is seen as a disaster ......

But, it is what it is ....... an affair. That's all. Nothing more. Trying to twist an affair into something else is like trying to will the ebb tide to change dirrections.

I do understand.... but it is what it is...

IT WAS AN AFFAIR

not more, not less.

And, affairs ARE so much "the same" that these books (Torn Assunder and others) can describe the sequence of events and all emotional rollercoasters involved ... and we readers nod our heads simultaneously and say .... "Yes, that's exactly what happened."

Pep <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

[ July 16, 2004, 10:59 AM: Message edited by: Pepperband ]

TopRope, now I am going to change your quote ever so slightly (I'll BOLD the change I am making)...

"The pain comes from finally realizing that the relationship YOU thought you had, is something Totally different then what the WS always knew it was (even if they mislead you about it). "

The pain of losing the fantasy AFFAIR relationship vs the pain of losing the (fantasy ?) MARRIAGE relationship ....

Most BS will say they were broadsided by the affair... they thought they were in a faithful relationship, a MARRIAGE protected by VOWS ... especially if theiur spouse is a really nice person... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> (mine is)

They did not KNOW before the affair was revealed that they were married to a (really nice) person who was capable of such broad lies and deceit.

and it's a pretty big SHOCK!

"I thought I knew you! Who ARE you? Your're not the person I married! The man / woman I married would never do a thing like this!"

The AFFAIR partners, cannot in good faith claim to be truthful individuals. It takes a mountain of lies to have an affair and keep it secret.

Soooooo.... affair "partners" are forewarned they are covorting with a fellow-adulteror, especially if the affair partner is also MARRIED.

It cannot come as too big a shock that the known liar is a liar....

But, this is what the fog does....

"I know he / she lies to his wife / husband / kids in order to secretly meet me for our affair dates .... but I NEVER thought he / she could be capable of lying to ME! He / She told me he / she loved me!" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

I do see where her hurt comes from.... does she see the illogical thinking that got her here?

Pep <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Pepperband and Top Rope,

I am putting together a response. Hopefully not too long-winded. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Your posts both really got to me...in a very helpful way.

Thanks,
Pam

oops, double post

[ July 16, 2004, 01:28 PM: Message edited by: runawaypot ]

Top Rope and Pepperband, thank you for your posts. It is hard to acknowledge, but I am willing to now.

I could be off base here, but I believe at least a portion of her problen is that she is upset (feeling down, whatever) that the OM IS going to be Happy CONTINUING to be an adulterer (just not with her).
AHH, there's the emotional catch.

Unfortunately, this is it in a nutshell…well almost all of it.

This is just another painful reminder that this relationship was not Ever Really Special, wasn't The "one" or meant to be.
More likely for OM is was just "fun" and Games.

This is where it is going to sound really weird now. Mentally, I had decided to “accept” what the relationship would always be. I knew it was intended to be only “fun” although there were many emotions tossed in the mix.

I never thought he was the “one”. In fact, I remember thinking he was not really even deep down the kind of person I would choose to be close to in my life.

But, the “feelings”, infatuation, almost the drug of choice for the moment to escape what was hurting in my life, was OM. I got such a relief when with him (although much like what alcohol does) I guess I was willing to take it for what it was. I know, pretty bad.

The pain comes from finally realizing that the relationship YOU thought you had, is something Totally different then what the OP always knew it was (even if they mislead you about it).

This is where it got tricky. I thought I was okay. I thought I was in control. What I realized as time went on was I was not in control. My emotions had totally gotten tied up in this person. Thus the breaking it off because of guilt, and going back over and over again. He had “some” feelings. At this point, I don’t even pretend to know anymore what they were, or the extent of them. He did mislead me, but you have to remember, I thought I was wise to what was going on.

In the end, I felt I really did need him. I really did need him to desire me (so I felt wanted), and to make me feel worth something. I also had a false sense of safety when with him.

I realize how pitiful and horrible this all is. I am not proud of this at all. I became extremely dependant on his acceptance. Which of course was a set up for disaster. Like Pep said, it is what it is. Just an affair. No more, no less.

I was living completely by emotions. I do not want to do that anymore. It will take me a while. Hopefully, this willfulness of mine will come in handy there. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

So RAP what is your choice??
To Be stronger and retain your own personal power OR "give" it away Again sooooo cheaply.

You got me here Top Rope. It is so hard to face how easily I cheapened myself in the end to get a little “acceptance.” It is actually very frightening when I think about it.

My choice is to retain my personal power. Is it too late to learn how to do that? I don’t think so. I completely lost the old me(don’t want all of it back) and it seems like I am looking for who I am to be now.

Some of the answer is going to have to come first in how I start to treat H.

Pepperband said:

When the A was about 15 months old, the OW had surgery, and she wanted MY HUSBAND to visit her in the hospital. He refused. This is what he said:

"I am not your husband. This relationship is an affair. I don't belong in the hospital when you are sick. Your family belongs by your side. Not me."

It is amazing to hear about this from you. It IS all the same, isn’t it? I am familiar with similar situations.

For certain individuals who navigate their lives based on their feelings rather than on their principles, the ebb tide of feelings is seen as a disaster

Yes…it has been like a disaster to me. Mentally it makes no sense. My self-worth has been wrongly wrapped up in this guy. So when the feelings started to subside, I was devastated. I realize the feelings-based part of me is definitely something that has had a light shined on it from this A.

Also, I do realize H deserves a wife that is not blown around by the wind with every emotion. I feel pretty horrible about this.

Most BS will say they were broadsided by the affair... they thought they were in a faithful relationship, a MARRIAGE protected by VOWS ... especially if theiur spouse is a really nice person... (mine is)

I obviously have not acted like a nice person for a while, but I know that this is exactly how H felt. I know he still can’t believe it at times.

Obviously, my H is pretty smart. Brainy and articulate. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I don’t’ know if you have had a chance to see his post to CHackler recently, (see link at bottom) but he wasn’t always the straight-laced guy you see here. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> In fact, I was considered the nice girl that was dating trouble.

My so-called “Christian” friends did not treat him well in college. I lost a lot of my Christian friends in college for this reason.

They did not understand how such a “nice” girl like me could care for a raucous guy like him.

(If they could see me now, huh? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> )

Anyway, the point is I did broadside my H and I truly regret the damage in his heart that has been caused. I am just beginning to see what kind of turmoil and questions my actions have caused him.

They did not KNOW before the affair was revealed that they were married to a (really nice) person who was capable of such broad lies and deceit.

Yes, definitely true.

cannot come as too big a shock that the known liar is a liar....

But, this is what the fog does....

"I know he / she lies to his wife / husband / kids in order to secretly meet me for our affair dates .... but I NEVER thought he / she could be capable of lying to ME! He / She told me he / she loved me!"

I never did believe all of what he said for this very reason. Sadly, at the time, I wanted the “fix” he gave me enough to “hope” some of what he said was true. In the end, like I said, I did not have control over my emotions. I had lost all control over my feelings for him.

I do see where her hurt comes from.... does she see the illogical thinking that got her here?

YES, yes, yes. I do see the illogical thinking that got me there. The sad thing is, I didn’t care at the time. I just thought I HAD to have him. He “fixed” my feelings. Total and complete selfishness. I just ended up caring for him more than he cared for me. The pain comes from that realization, and that I am still equating my worth with his acceptance.

You can say all day long that doesn’t make sense, because it doesn’t. I want to change this. It will take time. If you could cut open my brain and change it, I would let all of you do it today!

Anyway, much too long of a post.

I have felt crazy. I have felt completely lost.

Top Rope and Pepperband,

I know it must frustrate you to talk to me. I am frustrated with myself.

Thank you for your input.

I hope you will continue to give it. I really will accept it in the best way I know how.

Thanks,
Pam

chackler thread

I know it must frustrate you to talk to me.

Not at all frustrating... rather rewarding in fact.

Thanks you, for allowing me to share with you.

Pep <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

RAP ... try posting strictly about the future or the present for awhile... see if that helps.

Pep

Dear RAP,

Hi. Have been reading all this and learning for myself too.

We are two crazy people aren't we <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

I can see me in your posts so much. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

Wow. JL & Pep really give us something to think about and stew about (as I am at the moment, having a pouty lip moment on my thread) <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

I think JL must be sooooooo frustrated with me.

I think I am going crazy too.

We must keep listening to them RAP. They are not giving up on us are they? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Am really having a pouty lip moment infact.

I am frustrated with myself.

I know I have made some progress this week but then I feel I blow it 'internally' again.

Still looking for that 'zap' potion...

Was thinking on something today about us in this situation..

We are both at this same stage, and we are both thinking on how come OM has been able to move on as it were and be happy. (Read your earlier posts on this as I have also posted similar thoughts on my thread)

Read Peps reply too and agree. It is as if I want OM to be as confused, sad and struggling as me because it just doesn't seem fair.

I was thinking of you as I was driving along in my car going to pick eldest son up from work.

It was as if God was speaking into my heart the conversation between Jesus and Peter at the end of Johns gospel, where Jesus was asking Peter to 'follow Him'...Peter turned round and saw John the disciple sitting there, and said to Jesus 'but what about him Lord?

Jesus replied 'WHAT IS THAT TO YOU PETER?...YOU FOLLOW ME'

ps...

Accidentally pressed 'add reply' before had finished post!

Soooo I think that is what God was saying to me...

"BV you keep saying to me but but but God what about Om and how come he has been able to move on"

But I (God) am saying to you, WHAT IS THAT TO YOU BV...YOU FOLLOW ME...

God is hitting me with some 4x4's now...

Thinking of you as always, and praying for you & NC

Kas <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

BV,

Thank you so much for your post. It was perfect.

We must keep listening to them RAP. They are not giving up on us are they?

No, they are not, and I am truly grateful. I keep waiting on everyone to walk out, but no one has yet.

Am really having a pouty lip moment infact.

I am frustrated with myself.

I know I have made some progress this week but then I feel I blow it 'internally' again.

Still looking for that 'zap' potion...

I am sorry to hear you had a hard time today. You are making steps forward constantly. I keep hearing what Pep said about feelings. I can’t say it exactly.

But we just let them pass through. I am really wanting to learn this.

Also, I want a zap potion too! Hugs to you BV!

It was as if God was speaking into my heart the conversation between Jesus and Peter at the end of Johns gospel, where Jesus was asking Peter to 'follow Him'...Peter turned round and saw John the disciple sitting there, and said to Jesus 'but what about him Lord?

Jesus replied 'WHAT IS THAT TO YOU PETER?...YOU FOLLOW ME'

H and I both just said “Wow” to this. It spoke to me at exactly the moment I needed it. Thank you BV. Isn’t God cool? He really knows what we need and when we need it. I could use a patience potion too. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

But I (God) am saying to you, WHAT IS THAT TO YOU BV...YOU FOLLOW ME...

I so needed to hear that! Why does it matter to us BV?

I don’t’ know.

God keeps whispering about His “plans for good and not for evil” to me.

I will be happy when my mind wants to run off on that tangent and not somewhere destructive.

God is hitting me with some 4x4's now...

I understand. You are not running though BV. You are at the gate and you are opening it! I really do see you doing this. It is helping me to not just sit in my own thoughts and stew over all this.

Thank you for the encouragement. It came at just the right time.

Talk to you soon BV.

KY,

I am resisting the urge to make cookie dough tonight. NOT EASY!

Talk to you both soon.

Lisa 103

I am thinking your absence is a good thing? Happy and busy at your job?

Would love to hear about it when you get the chance.

Pam

[ July 16, 2004, 08:13 PM: Message edited by: runawaypot ]

Hi, I was sent over here by Believer when I was desperate and posted in General questions 2 and this thread has been a life saver to me. I can tell you that this all could have been written by me, I am feeling and going through a good portion of what is here. I had an A, am going through terrible withdrawl, am confused, want to run away, want to talk to OM, am feeling depressed, lonely, afraid. Everything you have talked about on here. So many truths here. I am just reading and absorbing it all. It is a comfort to me. D.

Hi there. This is the most interesting place on the board. Welcome. Hang in here with these fine people. They will really help you.

Try to check out the posts by broken vessel and chackler, lots of good questions and answers for both the WS and BS.

Yes, there are very good questions and answers here. I am finding it very comforting here. OM was out here where we live this morning. We live on his property and in his house, not with him, but a house he owns. Long story. The hardest thing for me to accept in all this is that I was just a game to him, something to be won cause I was "unavailable" as he put it. I fell in love with OM, but I am not sure what it was all about to him except a game. He was meeting the EN big time, and I fell for it. I was definitely in a fog. DH is being wonderful now, but he was content for a long, long time to just let OM meet my needs, he knew what was going on and just was silent about it. Now I find out the trust I put in OM was just an illusion. I was so stupid and hurt so many people who didn't deserve it. I want to love DH again, I want to respect him and I want the marraige God promises me we can have. There are just so many emotions that I seem incapable of managing right now. OM goes to the church I go to, I have to find a new church. I know we need to find a new place to live. THough OM would be content to let me live here forever, it is just to hard for me to do it. IT hurts.

totally - Yep, I know it hurts terribly. But we are going to get you back in shape to have a good marriage with your husband, and have a happy life.

Have you checked out Chackler's post here? NCWalker (RAP's husband) is trying to help her out.

So stick around, you will not always feel this bad.

totallybroken -

Good for you. You told your husband. You are doing very well. Now you can make your marriage better than it ever was. It will be hard, but can be done.

totallybroken - Are you around?

Trying to revive this thread, or has it flat-lined?

Dear believer and RAP, & onlywords

Are you around?

Just thought I would say good nite to you guys on this thread and ask how you are all doing?

How has things been for you today RAP?

Are you ok? Is NC ok?

Ok....so now I have the ok's out the way, please tell me ARE YOU REALLY OK!?

Thinking of you all in your different situations, Believer in her sad and painful situation, RAP & me in our similar situation, and
onlywords in her new business, and praying she will do well in it. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Maybe you could post a photo of your little basket shop on the photo thread if poss? It would lovely to see something you had made personally. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

Well, am falling asleep now so will leave you guys to chat later and I will log in the morning to see your posts! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Take care all of you,
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
Kas

BrokenVessel - Hi. Glad someone finally posted on this thread. I would like to keep one thread for WS's. There are so many new ones here. It is nice to have one place to refer them to.

I had my job evalutation today, and got outstanding. So I am very happy. I am very thankful that my job is going well.

Hope you and RAP, and onlywords, Chackler, totally broken, KiwiJ (hope I didn't miss anyone) are doing well. I'm still working on the Proverbs31 woman thing, and seem to have more hope lately. I'm trying to make improvements in several areas at once.

Hi BV,

It has been a busy day here. I did well most of the day.

I had IC this morning. Painful to look at myself, but I do believe it will ultimately be extremely helpful.

Then the boys had soccer coaching with a friend of mine. She is an amazing soccer player, fun just to watch her!

The boys were exhausted. I wanted to go to the gym. It has been the only "healthy" thing that has helped so much when this depression hits.(meaning trying to not turn into an alcoholic <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> )

Not a good idea today. Not anything to do with breaking NC. (Although I really do think OM has sold his truck and is sort of in hiding b/c of H's manly;) confrontation)

OM went to the gym I am currently a member of for four years. He has not been there in over a year and has no plans of going back.

I have had my membership there before I even started to train with OM. I left temporarily when he started to train me at a different gym.

I do not think anyone knows about me and OM, but people do know I trained with him for a long time.

I am getting questions. People also want to ask about him or talk about him.

I have been getting (unsolicited) information on him. Some given in a "he's such a great guy, but he has an interesting side, doesn't he?" sort of way.

It just got to me today. I already know how dumb I was. I feel even more stupid for having feelings for him.

Now this gym is becoming a trigger because the only memory these people have of me is training with him. I just had to leave today.

It does seem like a rumor mill. I am nervous.

However, I met this really neat Christian girl and we have hit it off. She and her husband have a friend(who happens to know OM-this is getting unavoidable. It seems this bodybuilding thing is sort of a small world?) who is helping them in the same way I want to learn.

He is a very strong Christian and just kind of teaches them because he has done this all his life.

I mention this because I would love to turn around something I love and make it not always have all these triggers.

However, sorry so long, I just came home before even exercising.

I had to do that yesterday too. I just sat in the parking lot and cried. I have to get over this. He is not around. I think I have probably answered all the "where is OM and are you still training" questions.

But why do I feel like I am not safe anywhere in this town? It is silly. I am not making sense.

So this has been my state of mind.

The sad thing is the boys and I had a wonderful day. Saw two friends I am really coming to enjoy a lot. In the past, those thoughts would go along with me as the boys and I finished our day.

Instead, the minute I hop in the car, the pain in my stomach starts. Inevitably.

I fear seeing OM. I expect to on the road just because I always have. Fortunately I have not lately.

But coming home, into the neighborhood, all that, takes away my joy.

My Ic and I discussed taking back "my territory" and happiness today. I can't give him this much control.

Like I have said before, the A for me just unveiled things that have needed to be dealt with for a long time. It is just blown out of proportion because of the feelings I have for OM.

Sorry for babling. I feel more sane when I can get these things off my chest and out of my mind.

Blessings to all ofyou,

Pam

PS. Hope you have good sleep BV <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

runawaypot -

Your counselor is exactly right. You need to take back your territory. Just think what a great Proverbs31 woman you will be.

I had the same problem (from the other side). Everyone knew that my WH was with the OW - and I mean EVERYONE! People in my neighborhood, our friends, his family, everyone at work, and at church.

It was quite humiliating. But I have held my head up, and continue to try to lead a good life. I even went to WH's retirement party which I was dreading.

So you take back your territory too. Frankly it becomes old news quickly, and now everyone treats me just like they always have.

I am sorry to hear about that believer. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

It seems that we are forced to "grow" through situations like this.

I think God knows my stubborn streak maybe? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Well, I was wrong about OM's truck..I guess it was just a breather for me.

The phone rang so I went to the kitchen. The person on the other line just hung up. Right then OM drives by.

Probably a coincidence, but I saw because all my kitchen windows face the road.

H told him he must not drive by our house for at least a month.

H's truck is not here b/c he is working late. OM must not care too much about what H said or he just saw H wasn't home. Who knows?

H told him he would the OM's W if he drove by or did anything like that. He must not be worried.

All this needs to stop mattering to me!!!!!! Ugh.

I know it will eventually.

Blessings,
Pam

Glad I read this!
I am feeling the same things! the OMs wife does not know and we all work in the same profession. I have given up EVERYTHING to avoid seeing him but still constantly think about things- I am angry at myself, sad, and feel like I am NEVER going to get past this emotionally. Rumors are going around and more people know what happened and OMs wife has questioned him and he denies it. I feel (although I know it should not matter) that I will never be able to move past his because I am constantly waiting for the bomb to drop with OMs wife. If we did not work in the same profession I might not worry so much although part of me wants the truth out there. He does blame me for this getting out because I told my husband the truth. I have sent to NC letters and failed to stick to it. It is such a bad cycle to be in. On anothr post it was suggested my H call his W so it is out in the open.......
I do want my M to work- tomorrow is our 9 year anniv and I am trying so hard to focus on it. I hate myself right now......

Pam,

I understand what you mean. I work in the mortgage industry. It's a small world, even in a large city. The OM still works with one of my closest friends. I got her the job where I was working and he is there. Now they are tight. She doesn't know. She still talks about him sometimes, but it's now easy for me not to care. It used to drive me NUTS when he would tell her to say hi to me. He did it a lot and would say "Tell my girl I said hi and I miss her".

I moved away for a year and when I came back, my best friend, who also knows him had a welcome home party for me when I was here accepting a job. The other friend invited him. Best friend, who had never told him she knew (she also worked there at the time of the A), called him and told him he was not to come. That is how he found out she knew. I caused problems for so many people.

He is single and I know he was looking for love from me. I never had it for him. I know I hurt him, but I can't worry about that. He hurt my family by having a relationship with me. Does he hate me? Does he think of me? It so doesn't matter anymore and that is a wonderful feeling.

Don't know if any of this helps, but it will get better, I promise.

Michele

guilty,

I am glad you are here. We can help each other.

I am sorry to hear about your situation.

Affairs are real messes, aren't they?

(I have just had all 3 children come in at different times asking for pc <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> )

I have a lot to say , but have lost my "turn" on pc.

Michele,

thank you for posting. Thanks for sharing. It does help a lot.

Blessings,
Pam

michelle - Please keep posting here. We need more success stories. Hope you are feeling good.

Guilty - Hang in there. Everyone here is going through the same thing. I can see how awful it is at first.

I met a girlfriend for lunch today and she asked how I was doing. I said we were doing really well and that I couldn't believe the stuff I used to say.

She said: We knew you were pretty hopeless back then and it's so good to see you back to your old self again. You know he's probably done it before and he'll do it again with someone else whether his wife knows now or not. He was a jerk.

Now if she'd said all that to me 3 months ago I would have all sorts of excuses and justifications etc etc. I now remember that I was always unhappy during the A. Constantly unhappy. Miserably unhappy.

You're doing well all of you. Keep plugging away. It is a VERY long process and I think everyone here knows there are still elements of fog around me. But the little bits of fog don't mean I don't love Rob and don't want my marriage to work. I would never go down that path again. I see Rob as my one and only and I would never put myself in a position to jeopardise that. When I had the A I wasn't even seeing Rob - it was as though he didn't exist. Well now he does and I would never hurt him again. My whole mindset is different - I have learned so much.

Jenny

[ July 27, 2004, 02:36 PM: Message edited by: Broken Vessell ]

Hi girls.
BV, sorry your are having a hard time, health wise too. I'm guessing you need more chocolate.

Believer, I want you to know, how much i appreciate your full acceptance and your sincere willingness to help this group. I think you are truly a wonderful person. At a time when I really need acceptance this means so much. I think all of us FWS feel that way. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

TotallyBroken, and Guilty, welcome to MB, stick with this. You will see you can make it out of this mess we have created for ourselves and our loved ones. It is a messed up thing the A, but we can recover, and we will all help each other. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Rap, I have the drive by thing going on as well. The OM drives by 6 times a day. I'm not sure what he gets out of this, but it is a major set back for my H and I's recovery.

It angers my H, and disturbes me. He doesn't need to drive by our house, he just chooses to for some reason. I'm not sure if he wants me to stop him, which I won't, or if he just wants to see a glimpse of me, or the boys, what is that about???? It is killing me!!!!!!!!!!!

We have decided we just won't look out at the road anymore. This has helped, or maybe he hasn't been driving by the past few days. I can only hope.

I'm so sorry for your pain, you are doing so well. I can tell you are making progress. I would have run for the hills, but you marched right in, good for you.

I'm such a chicken. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

((((hugs)))) to you all, this will all get better for us soon.

We are all on our way to recovery. It all comes in steps. I am no longer concerned about OM, at all. I no longer care for him, desire to see him at all. You can all get there too.

I know you can do this.
GO TEAM!!!!!

Jelly

Dear Suzet & RH,

Thanks for your posts. I am not really 'with it' at the moment. I seem to have 'gone back' in myself. I had to go to the doctors this morning and go back on some anti d.

Had a good long talk with the doctor this morning and finally told her why I needed them. Last year when I was on them I never told her the real reason 'why'.

She was very good and kind. She understands I am in withdrawal stage from OM, and has prescribed me some sedatives/anti d starting me off on a low dose.

These are a different type to what I was on before because I had serious side effects coming off them.

I don't know what to post or how to talk through things at the moment. I just want to 'retreat' into myself and forget everything.

I undrstand what you mean in your post Suzet, and truly it makes so much sense, but I can't let the feelings 'pass through me'. My defense to the pain and confusion is to totally block them out, and if it isn't the wine to do this, then it will have to be a sedative for the time being.

I feel I am totally hopeless and stupid at the moment.

but if you keep fighting against them, it will only get a stronger hold on you, depletes your emotional energy and prevents you from getting better to accept yourself and your emotions for what it is...

This is what is happening to me, I know it is. I can almost feel like my body is switching off because it simply can't cope with these feelings any more.

I don't think I am moving forward. I think I have now gone back. Just needing the anti d to me says this.

I am now going to take another tablet.

Am sorry guys.

Kas <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />