It seems that is is a MUCH larger problem than the US DOD (or other military Services) care to admit.

The purpose of this thread is to (anecdotally) get a feel for how much if this occurs now that we ship men and women off to remote locations (sometimes with alcohol available) and DON'T expect them to cheat...

Protect your nation...wreck your family...not a good sales pitch! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

My own info:

- I was active duty and I cheated with an active duty woman, married her and she cheated on me.

- Guy I worked with in TX (and hated) cheated on his wife and (I think) married his OW.

- Friend of STBXW gives SF to one of her M'ed commanders, gave it once to one of her other commanders and is/was being "pursued" by the BIG fish in her chain of command. She told us (STBXW and I) this

- M'ed man I knew traveled to a remote (I was there) and proceeded to hit on an M'ed woman (she told me)...she torpedoed him.

- M'ed woman at my first duty assignment cheated on her husband.

I am sure there are more...I just didn't know about it....

Anyone else care to contribute?

WNB

I am retired Army. My wife cheated while on my last deployment.

But what I bring to the table here is that I am a former Inspector General with the Army. We are the ones who handle adultery (and homosexual) cases. We used to call ourselves the "sex police." Not much fun though!

The IG is a great tool, that not many people take advantage of. Why is it a great tool? Well, first off, it is against the law in the military. Second, the IG is not in the chain of command. The IG works directly for the Commanding General. So, unlike some commands that sweep some things under the rug, the IG wont (and cannot) sweep ANYTHING under the rug. They must investigate.

In my opinion, after 4 years as an IG, that if you are a spouse of a military member, or the OP is a member of the military, then the UCMJ is your friend!! By going to the IG, the WS or OP's commander will be ordered by the commanding general to take action. At the very least, the adulterous service member will be ordered not to have anything to do with the person they are sleeping with until they are divorced. And if they ignore that order? Well, that's jail time and a dishonorable discharge. At best, if the two infidels are in the chain of command with each other, then they will be court marshaled.

I speak no offense to you no WhnowBS, but while a service member is in an affair...they do not belong in my military. We march and fight to the code Duty, Honor, Country. And then a person in adultery does one of the most dishonorable things a person could do...destroy their marriage and their family.

I am not saying that people dont make mistakes. And when made, the honorable man or woman stands up and takes their consequences. And they also repent and turn from those ways.

I do not want a person so selfish as to cheat on their spouse in the foxhole next to me. While they are leading this immoral selfish life, they can not be counted on.

So, anytime I worked an adultery case, I had no tolerance for the ifnidels. None! I didnt want to hear their excuses. About how rough it is at home...or I was done with the marriage...or I found my soulmate. "save that for someone who cares."

As an IG, I was out to protect the Army and its soldiers from those that did not live up to Duty, Honor, Country. Like I said, I have had soldiers make mistakes and correct them. That isnt who I am talking about.

I am talking about the person in an adulterous affair who continues their immoral and selfish lifestyle. I pray that every BS in this situation goes straight to the unit or post IG and files a complaint. I can guarantee you that until a divorce is finalized, that affair will end immediately.

Because they will either stop when they are ordered...or they will stop because one or both of them are in the stockade.

In His arms.

I am beginning to see that I was a rarity...I cheated, took my punishment and LEARNED MY LESSON!! Nothing like a $1000 fine and a suspended reduction to E-5 to get your attention! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

Most cheaters I have come across were, are and continue to be unrepentant.

I TRULY regret what I did and I will be apologizing to my XW when I pick up my son next week...she never got that. I was SOOOO in the "fog" back then...I am so ashamed of myself...MB has helped me see how WRONG I was!

Now that I KNOW FIRSTHAND, the pain I caused her, I owe her at least that.

Expecting men and women to rise above their "sexual" selves, coupled with extended separations AND sometimes alcohol is a recipe for disaster.

And thus...you sir are a man of honor!

I do expect them to rise above it. They are human beings, not animals. Just like I expect them to rise above not pillaging and stealing from stores and homes as they go through the city.

I expect them to be honorable. I expect them to live up to Duty, Honor, Country.

In His arms.

Honor...The most sublime word in the English language.

Robert E. Lee

I have been out of the military for a long time. But, I have often wondered why people do not realize the mixing males and females at the height of their sexual drives in dangerous and remote places, is not conducive to the "good order and functioning" of a combat arm.

Nevertheless, what MM says is true, they are expected to rise above this and perform as they have sworn to do, and as they swore to their spouses they would do.

Nothing to add really, but I do feel this is a good topic for this site.

God Bless,

JL

In my situation, my STBX A started while I was deployed.

I am friendly and outgoing and like to meet people, so while deployed I talked with lots of soldiers overseas. Many were on their second deployments in OEF/OIF and had lost their first marriages to As back home.

Not HUGELY significant statistical data, but of the 500 or so discussions about families back home, fully 20% of the deployed soldiers had a spouse that cheated on them while they were deployed and cleaned them out with the full power of attorney they had left behind. Many were happy to be deployed again to give their finances a boost.

But also over there, it was against base policy to engage in intercourse, unless your married spouse was deployed and stationed in the same place. So even if the two soldiers were single, it was forbidden in the deployed environment.

I was working with the Corps of Engineers and part of the base construction. The base sergeant major came to me with a project to build locking doors for tents that were unoccupied so he could secure them. He was having big problems with people "sneaking in" to the unoccupied tents for a little after hours recreation. So we had to waste your tax dollars building doors for tents to enforce a policy that was essentially a direct order to soldiers who should have known better.

I was an activated reservist and was a little disappointed at the behavior of the active duty while over there. Not that they were ALL bad, but the percentage of problem soldiers was higher than I expected it to be.

Only somewhat pertinent, but I really feel the urge to rant about this: When I was gone, OM#1 saw my wife as a target of opportunity. He knew I was deployed and probably figured he would "help" this lonely housewife. How does THAT support our soldiers overseas? Know what makes it worse? He is a naturalized citizen. What kind of b*stard gifted with citizenshop would do that to a deployed soldier of the country who granted it to him. He ought to be deported.

NCWalker

I don't know if this counts but my girlfriend cheating almost the entire 4 months I was in Desert Storm..I didn't find out until a month or so back in the states when neighbors brought it to my attention. Show you what a doormat I was, she later became my wife and cheated two more times.

(aren't these the Commanders one would report this activity to???) (You see the problem)
"Friend of STBXW gives SF to one of her M'ed commanders, gave it once to one of her other commanders and is/was being "pursued" by the BIG fish in her chain of command."

My first husband was enlisted in the Marines. He regularly cheated on me and his "friends" had no problems coming on to me.

My current husband is a pilot--an officer in the Coast Guard. He had an affair with a fellow married pilot/officer. Though their affair ended, she divorced her h right away. My marriage took a little longer to take the final crumble.

Infidelity *is* rampant in the military and if you view it as a microcosm of the regular world...it is much more common than in the "regular" population.

My anecdotal evidence isn't limited to my own experiences...while I'm not going to list every single instance I know of (too many)--I would say you're looking at an extremely high rate...I base this on NOTHING scientific, but I'll bet it's at least 75% and in reality is probably higher.

I would love NOTHING better than to be trained in MB principles and teach courses at bases--especially pre-deployment. I would also like to see the UCMJ concerning infidelity have more bite. Unfortunately, may betrayed spouses are unwilling to exposes their WS because a cut in pay/reduction in rank affects them as well...even if there is a divorce (if there are children).

Aislinn…Great minds must think alike : )


My wife and I are both active Air Force and have both had affairs. I told my W's commander but asked him not to get official with anything because if her career was affected than it would severely effect our families ability to support itself. At the time I questioned that decision but it worked out in the long run for us. We have since recovered and have started teaching a course at our church based on HN/HN called Dynamic Marriage (www.familydynamics.org).

I contacted the MacDill AFB chapel about doing a class on base. All the details aren’t worked out yet but it’s moving in the right direction. I’ll keep you all posted.

As has been said, the military is very conducive for infidelity. The phrase “what goes TDY, stays TDY” comes to mind pretty quick. Not to say that the military, as an institution, encourages it but commanders and those in leadership positions do little to stop it if it doesn’t interfere with the morale or the mission. I would say that the majority of the people I work with have had or been the victim of an affair. Hell, one of my coworkers was involved with one that caused her divorce.

I don’t blame the military for the affairs anymore than I blame McDonalds for making 10 year olds fat. We all have free will to make our own choices. Granted the military put us in close working conditions with a lot of people of the opposite sex but if we’d taken care of our marriage then the opportunity wouldn’t be so tempting.

Just my $.02

BTW….I found out I made Master Sergeant (E7) today.

God Bless

Doug

Doug, woooohooo...congratulations!!

Well, let me tell you...if you ever get anything going over at McDill and you and yours would ever like some assistance...I would welcome the opportunity, though my marriage was not recovered...*I* am on my way to recovering.

Congratulations Doug,

When CO's of ships are showing inappropriate behavior in front of others it sets a terrible precedent. Also I dont know how anyone can think putting young females on ships for months and months on end is going to not cause some problems. My h also says I don't understand the active duty military life because they have to learn to trust each other with their lives and that builds a special bond.

Also the military and any other form of job that has the spouse leaving for prolonged periods of time allows for affairs to happen cause it allows it to be hidden so well. I have suspicions that have driven me crazy but no actual proof.

I know of many who have cheated on their spouse while out to sea and it makes me sick. The worst part is that unless someone takes pictures it can't be proven so the spouses are left hanging.

yes it does occur at home too and that also makes me sick. I think some of it depends on who the spouse left at home surrounds themselves with as friends. We all have to put up a wall to members of the opposite sex when spouses are gone or deployed because we are all vulnerable to some extent. Us lucky enough to know that can better prepare ourselves. Its a very lonely life on both side for the military member and for their spouse.

Yup...just because they are officers doesn't exempt them from horrifically stupid behavior.

I am sorry to hear that you ran into TWO scumbags!

There are good men and women out there...somewhere..

The possiblity of me getting cheated on again DOES exist and it scares me to no end...no slack if it happens again...I will be gone...I have had my fill of dishonest women.

Playboy did a survey and found that 25% of men cheated and about 18% of women did...it seemed like they did their statistical homework fairly well. It was in las months issue with the Lance Armstrong interview in it.

FIrst and foremost...congrats on making Master! I made in 6 years ago and have been retired since 01 Sep.

Retirement is GREAT! I HIGHLY recommend it...especially if you are a Final Pay guy like me! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I like the McDonalds analogy...to a point. What the military does is starve the 10 year olds, put them in a room with Big Macs by themselves and THEN tells those ten year olds "DON'T EAT THOSE!!!"

It IS a choice, but the phrase “what goes TDY, stays TDY” just won't die...My STBXW admitted "I didn't think I'd ever get caught." It's tragic.

If you don't mind sharing...how is it that BOTH of you had A's AND recovered AND are now looking to spread the MB gospel? It sounds lilke a good story

WNB

Congrats on making MSG!

I was Army, my first H was Army, current H is Navy. Both H's cheated on me. In the vast majority of military couples I've known, one or both spouses has cheated. It's really sad.

I know that in some units, the divorce rate for those returning from deployment is 70%.

But many units turn a blind eye to adultery saying it doesn't affect the unit morale. Go figure.

Dobie

Which is why when I was an IG, we didnt turn a blind eye. And after two years, the number of soldiers getting caught in adultery plummeted. Either they were getting better at hiding it, or they had heard what had happened to those that we investigated.

The commands out there have issues. They are trying to keep every soldier in the fight. So, the overlook some things. But the IG CANNOT overlook anything. If it comes to their attention, they MUST investigate! If they find wrong doing, they MUST send a finding to the commanding general, who will at the very least order the infidels to separate.

That is why I said in my origanl post. If my spouse was a service member and cheating, or was cheating with a service member, I would expose immediately to the IG. It is a tool that can be very effective in halting the affair.

In His arms.

Are you still with the WH Navy husband or have things worked out constructively?

Things worked out. Once I busted him, reality came crashing down. Shore duty has been a HUGE improvement, as he had only been home for 20 months out of five years and seemed to be cheating for the majority of deployments. We have 2 1/2 years before retirement now and I love where he works. He's in an all male environment and his life is an open book.

Dobie

Not Just Friends by Shirley Glass need to be read by EVERY spouse of active duty military...it REALLY shows how affairs begin.

With the military being in such close confines aboard ship/deployed/remote tours, it's a breeding ground for affairs.

The women can afford to be choosy as they only make up 20% of the US military and guys FLOCK to them.

When I was in Korea, women that wouldn't even get a second glance in the States were known as "Queen for a Year" because American women were a REAL "commodity" over there and the ladies ALL knew it.

Some acted on it (like my STBXW when she was there) and other (very few I am sure) chose not to.

Glad to hear that your marital recovery is going so well...

WNB

WNB,


I'll give you the readers digest version...

July 27, 2002 My wife told me she was in love with someone else I got the ILYBNILWU line. Rocked my world. She was in an A with a contractor that worked in her building. At this point it had been going on for about 6 months. She sent a NC letter and I sent the meanest letter I've ever written to OM. NC didn't last long. I moved out, she asked me back a little over a month later. She was waffling big time between hating me and tolerating me.

She was was "in love" with him and I stood little chance. She said coming back to me would be like going from college to kindergarden (ouch). We stayed in separate rooms and she pretty much avoided me for months. I can tell you, indifference is a lot more hurtful than hate.

In October 2002 she told me of another A in '99 with a coworker. I was such a doormat. I was holding on and waiting for her to make a decision. I basically took everything she did and there was little consequences on my part. I did expose to her family, friends and coworkers. This pissed her off and she forbade me from talking to her family. You know I actually sneaked around to make phone calls to my FIL and SIL, I can remember feeling guilty. She was still working w/ OM and was in contact via secret email and cell phone.

They were soulmates, nevermind the fact that she was married and OM was engaged.

In November 2002, through joke emails I developed a friendship with another female. She was going through a divorce and at first all we did was email. That quickly turned to phone calls. She was almost 24....almost 10 years younger than me. It felt good to have someone telling me that my W was making a mistake and how stupid she was for throwing awa such a great guy like me. Eventually we met for coffee a couple times and then to her place where we had sex.

I thought I was in love. She told me and I told her. As funny as it sounds I never wanted to leave my wife. This went on for about a month before I/we ended it. I really understood how my wife fell into the A. Up until that point I had never felt any emotions that strong. I didn't set out to have an A but I did very little to stop.

Fastforward to april 03....I had not told my wife of my A. In fact I had lied about it, stating "we were just friends." My W was still emailing and talking to OM. I had found a her secret email and she thought I was bugging the car, phones and computer. In the 4 months since my A had ended I had told a couple of people one of those people told my W. She confronted me and I confessed. She stated that she was happy because she didn't have to do "this" anymore.

I begged for forgiveness, cried and begged some more. 20 days later she got her own place and moved on base. Soon after she started dating OM and finally consumated their relationship tuning their 1 1/2 year EA to a PA.

Me, I thought our marrige was over. I sold my Sport Trac for a '96 S-10 that my parents gave me, took in a roommate at the house and set records for the amount of weight one can loose and the amount of cigarettes smoked in a day. During our separation my focused shifted from me trying to change her to changing myself. I had been heading that way with my counselor for the past few months and things were really starting to make sense to me.

One thing that was constant during our ordeal is that we kept going to church together. Some people in the church new but not many. I often talked to one of the pastors about things and he asked someone in the church to specifically pray for us.

Over the course of the next 5 months my W and I slowly started talking more often. She came to a lot of revelations about her life but I don't want to try and put her feelings into my words.

In Oct of 03 we moved back in together, went to counseling and got really honest with each other. She posted quite a bit on here for a while but the stories were too much of a trigger.

We have had amazing growth in our spiritual an marital lives so much so that the church asked us to give our testimony (in early 2004). The reaction was amazing. Many people came to us and said they had experienced infidelity in their lives but were afraid to ask for help because of how it would make them look. It was at this point the church asked us to lead a marriage ministry team. Originally the church wanted us to develop our own program but we didn't feel it was necessary to reinvent the wheel. We did a lot of research and finally landed on a program put on by Family Dynamics called Dynamic Marriage. It is an 8 week course based on HN/HN and Lovebusters and was developed by Joe Beam (his story makes most of us look like saints) with Dr. Harley's permission.

It is a great course. Our chuch sent my W and I to the facilitator training so we could teach the class. We just finished our first couse 2 weeks ago. It was amazing to to see the growth of some the couples...I'm not sure who got blessed more.

Well I guess that wasn't too condensed but most of my posts from 03 will go into even more detail.

I agree With MM on making infidelity in the military a much bigger issue than it is today. I can ensure your that I'll squash any of it from the troups under me.

God Bless

Doug

I agree with all of you... A infidelity course should be taught for pre-deployment and the effects of an A.

Funny thing is WH (currently depolyed in Iraq, in an A) used to put down X-BIL(active army stationed in Germany) for cheating on my sister and how to get back on him by telling his CO'. I reminded him about this and said yeah im such a hypocrite what" i despisied most and went and did IT myself."
Good thing about X-BIL, the judge told him off about getting his 3rd divorce and that he must be sick in the head to be getting married , have kids and inless than a year divorce these innocent women and find himself OW to marry AGAIN! ( I am so GLAD sister opened- her eyes and let this one GO! Now he has to support 4 children from 3 different woman! Not much pay left for him.

Sad thing is the children are the ones who suffer from these A's to top off the absence of parents and having to move all the time. You would think the military would see that they are the #1 's who suffer from this!

My experience is that an EA is the worse!!!! "Just my friend", "they need me", "we talk about our marriages". Very dangerous!!!! And so easy to fall into. Their morals go right on out the window.

I have some very strong feelings about it!!! But I know what comes around goes aaround and he is already back in Korea, came back the last time in 99, my kids have bets on whether this marriage will survive as "she needs him so badly". Don't know how many old HS GF he had out there though!!!!

My 2 cents worth for today, it is funny that he is staying for 30 now so that I can't have child support and retirement at the same time!!!!!

Dawn <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Former Army officer here. Never married while I was in the Army, but I "picked up" a woman while I was at Ft. Benning. As the date progressed, things didn't add up and I figured she was married and her hubby was deployed.

I dropped that.

MPs are not above military law as I had a pretty nice looking, but married female MP hit on me while I was stationed in Germany.

I busted a few soldiers for fooling around, and warned a few others off. Told them to knock off their affair or this is what I would do, showing them what I could do under the UCMJ.

As a platoon leader, I had a platoon SGT who was an E6 promotable get caught having an affair with a soldier in another company. We busted him to E5, so it was like he lost two stripes. He lost his soon to be promotion to E7, plus the rocker he already had. Not to mention he didn't complete a year as a platoon sgt. Definately a career limiting move.

I worked for a CPT, our company commander who got caught with his pants down. He lost his command and was quickly moved out of the country. (Back to the USA where his wife went when she found out.)

My unit was a special Army artillery unit, with Pershing-II missles (complete with nuclear warheads.) While is was a very high-stress job, the command was very serious about "distractions" and dealt with them harshly.

Finally, my ex-wife is having her affair with a retired Navy Commander. He is mid-divorce from a 30 year marriage. So he WILL lose half of everything, pay some serious alimony and will still have to support an adult developmentally disabled child.

Duty Honor and Country are just words unless you choose to actually believe them and live them. Many officers and enlisted personel do not choose to live those words.

TB

And you are correct sir. That is why those of us that serve honorably, and have served honorably, must uphold those standards. And drum out those that dont.

In His arms.

I found out WH A started as a EA and turned PA , two weeks before deployment! I saw the signs but he denied it and of course gave me the invading my privacy (saw cellphone bill) and questioned her #! Still kept tabs on it and finally he confesed.

I am currently in the process of finding out who is his Co and etc. He is a plt leader and up for his E-6 promotion in the next month or so. He knows I have his B**** in the palm of my hands not to mention hers. (knowing he is married!) Its sad it has to come to hurting his career but he knew exactly what they were doing and consequences to it!
I believe every BS should take advantage of the punishments available to us!

Thanks for sharing your story...

Through your program, if you can can save ONE couple, you have done well!

Best wishes...

WNB