New OW discovered ...she came into the picture while I was in plan B. Supposedly she and my WH have plans for next weekend. She works with him and had no idea he was married. They came to our home and did the deed. Thus the condoms from my previous post!

I called her and she said she was supposed to come over this evening. (...while I worked late.) Surprise! I decided to come home early...found her number on his cell and called it. She's coming over anyway...as if we never spoke.

God! I am shaking!

Oh good grief...

how very very horrible for you..

please consider what is really best for you...

Can you go somewhere and just stay for a few days..go dark...

ARK

My heart is pounding. The second she found out who I was she asked if she could meet up with me tonight. I told her to tell me over the phone and then she asked for my email address and she forwarded some of his emails immediately....I just read them. She said all either of them wanted was just sex...but she said if she knew he was married she would never have even hung out with him.

I don't know what to do.

{{newlywed55}} Yikes another dday. Like you needed that!

Ark ---

I think this is my only option. I think I'm done. I asked him specifically if there was anything with anyone else while we were apart. He said no...not even a kiss. I didn't believe him but was willing to move past that.

That does explain why you felt there was more to the bday story. No wonder he didn't support you going. I am soooo soooo sorry.

Copy those e-mails and do not let him know you have them. Good evidence. Tell him his OW called you and told you everything. Then tell him to get ck'd out for infections. Dam this is awful. I am so sorry for you.

{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{NW55}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

Breath girl...breath....you can do this.

She'll be here soon. My palms are sweating. WH is napping...in his underwear no less. Boy he's gonna be shocked.

Breathe....breathe....in....out.....

Thats Ok let him be shocked. He really is gonna be sorry now. Remember you have done nothing wrong here. He is the one who has done the wrong duing. So relax take a deep breath and let him deal with his own mess.

I can hardly wait for this one. Remember to be very, very calm, and cold as ice. Your husband is putting your through all of the B-day crap, and still cheating. I say enjoy the confrontation and then DUMP IS NASTY [censored].

I'm with believer. Throw him out he can go to his sister's.

check your email.

I think you should just leave...
let him answe the door..
and you be gone..
NO WHERE TO be FOUND...
\
just get out and be done with the sick chaos........

ARK

Oh while he is talking with OW you might want to pack him a bag and throw it out the door and tell him to follow it out. Then go and take money out of atm for yourself.

Second thought I'm with Ark -get out now and go to ATM take out $$$$$$$ all of it. and go to a friends or family

I agree with Ark and realtor. This "man" needs to know you respect yourself.

Beat feet to the ATM. Worry about the consequences later.

OH yeah, take some pictures of his sorry @ss when she shows up!

BE SAFE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ARK

bump - how are you -are you OK????????????

(((((NW)))))
I am so sorry this has happened. Are you ok?

Thank you all for your replies. I’m okay. I have finally received the moment of clarity that I needed. I’m exhausted from the drama of the past seven months but suddenly I have a second wind.

Here’s a brief follow up from last night. I’m at work so I need to keep this short.

When she arrived he was asleep. He heard the knocking at the door and he jumped up from his sleep and rushed to the door. We live in a small apartment so it happened very quickly. I was in the living room so I made it to the door first. He was behind me trying to push the door shut as I was trying to open it, but I pulled it open and he looked over my shoulder to see who it was.

I greeted her like I didn’t know who she was. She said she was there to see WH. I invited her in and turned around and he had disappeared into the bedroom to put on some clothes because he was wearing only his boxers.

So I chatted with her…how do you know WH?, etc. He came out, said hi to her and then started shuffling through some CD’s on the desk. I asked what he was looking for and he said she had come over to get a CD he borrowed. She said, that’s not why I’m here. He wouldn’t look at her or me while he was ‘searching’ for the item.

Between her behavior and his I was able to ‘figure out’ something wasn’t right. I started questioning him…what’s going on here?…something you want to tell me? He said no, she said, you wanna go get a drink?

I looked at WH and then back at her and said yes. I went back into bedroom to get my shoes and when I came back out he was shutting the door and she was gone. I started towards the door and he told me that I wasn’t going. I asked why. He said that it would be a huge mistake. He continued to block me from the door so I asked him to tell me what I needed to know. He said that they ‘made out’ one night and that was it.

He told me that if I go I should just take all my stuff with me. I told him I’d be back for it. He said if you go then I’m leaving. I said ok. He started packing a bag.

I went to find her. She was waiting for me outside. She said that she was going across the street to the restaurant/bar and she would wait for me there. I went back in and questioned him some more. He would admit to nothing…but I already knew the truth because she had told me on the phone before she came over.

I told him that I needed to go get some fresh air. He thought OW had already left…he didn’t know I was going to meet up with her. I told him that if he wasn’t here when I get back that I’d get my stuff and leave but that I hoped he would be here.

I went and met her. She gave me a timeline of when she met/started hanging out with WH. Basically it was while I was out of the country. She said that for the past few weeks he hasn’t had time for her. … The beginning of our ‘recovery’.

I ended up getting drunk. She drove me home. He was there when I got back. He started telling me all the things that he should have been saying during our ‘recovery’…he wants our marriage…he’ll go to counseling…he wasn’t going to niece’s b-day party…. I told him he was full of [censored] and that I could never sleep in that bed again. He admitted to everything. I asked why he couldn’t tell me the truth a few hours earlier…he said he didn’t know…how was he suppose to tell me that?

I passed out on the sofa and when I woke up he was sleeping on the floor next to it. I got ready for work. I woke him long enough to tell him I was leaving, have a safe trip. And I left.

Now my moment of clarity: I did not shed one tear over this new information. I already knew that there was something. As he slept on the floor this morning, I looked at him and I was very sad for him…not for me. I can walk away now…go dark…the time is right. As Orchid says…my heart and my mind are starting to synchronize.

Thank god you are alright.

WOW....I've been waiting and waiting for your post...thank you for letting us know that you are okay...how are you feeling this am?

Good work, except for getting drunk. I think I would ask him to leave. He has quite a bit of growing up to do.

Have you thought about what you are going to do now?

Lady, you rock! I am so proud of how well you handled this and yourself. Very class act.

I have no doubts that you will take some time and figure out what you need to do for yourself and in the meantime you'll survive quite well.

{{{{NW}}}}}

I know I shouldn’t have gotten drunk. I’m not proud of that…it’s out of character for me.

I really don’t know what I’m going to do. I’m going back to stay at my mom’s and then start looking for a place of my own. I am no longer going to contact WH. Perhaps he’ll contact me but I have a feeling he’s done with us. However, I’m not going to sit and wait on him either because I can’t say that I want this marriage anymore. For me it’s not about this new OW but the fact that he looked me straight in the face and lied.

I just spoke with WH. He’s so defeated. I think he’s finally hit his rock bottom. He says he wants me…he’ll do the work. He told me he’d go to counseling with me next week. He gave me all his passwords last night. He’s stopped all of his questionable behavior the last few weeks. I think he thought we could move on and I’d never find out about OW #2.

He’ll have to win me back now if he wants me because I’m already gone. We’ll see. I’m worrying about me now…

Now listen to me - you are young and if you were my D I would tell you this. You have been M just over a year and this guy cheated on you twice? What does that tell you. Honey you need to move on. He has alot of issues and is not ready to commit. If he was my son I'd help you D him. I knock him into next week. My sons know I am like this and do not dare ever cheat and as far as I know neither of them has ever cheated on a woman.

this is a character flaw issue

and

a life-style choice

how many strikes?

Actually, he should be the one to be inconvenienced by getting OUT. It's one of the consequences of this stupid choices.

Realtor -

My MIL told me to leave him when I spoke to her on D-day. She said get your stuff and go. And I did.

But I went back.....This was before I found MB.

I am moving on but it's hard when he still wants us.

Pep -

I agree. He has major character flaws. We talked about that this week before I found out about OW2. He had an abusive father. He doesn't really know what it means to have and be a family. I'm not making excuses for him.

He was absolutely wonderful to me (and my family) for 4 years. I don't know what happened.

Believer - I agree however I already moved all my stuff out when I went into plan B. Besides, I do not want to be in that apartment...where he did the awful deed and punched holes in the walls when I moved out.

I am looking forward to moving into a place that is MINE....where I can paint and furnish and keep the way I want. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

He's not worth any more of your attention. Dump him permanently, forget about him, find the right guy who loves you and will respect you.

Maybe 4 years is his limit for controlling himself?

or

maybe he was better at keeping things hidden for 4 years ????

But, you are the only one who has the right to say

"This is it ... I am getting out."

we can only offer free opinions .... :-)

Pep is right - but punching holes in the walls. That is scary - it could have been you. Take care of yourself. My exH -was very good at making me stay years ago. I learned the hard way. Je needs Ic and it will take awhile for him to be a better person.

On the punching holes in the wall...it's scary, depending on several things.

I am not a violent person. I've been through a LOT in my life...I've seen combat, I've lost both of my parents and all of my grandparents, lived on the streets...but I have never considered myself (or been considered by others) as a violent person.

On d-day, I was so hurt I could not contain it. While my wife sat there and told me that she loved OM and that he had bought her plane tickets and she was leaving to live with him, I literally bashed my gas grill to pieces. I punched holes in our wooden privacy fence...a number of things that I am NOT proud of. And you know what...my wife sat there the whole time, not the least bit afraid. She knew that no matter HOW mad I was, I'd never lay a finger on her.

Later, when we were in MC I asked her about that...and she told me that she knew that she wasn't in any danger at all...she just felt terrible for causing me to lose control like that.

I am NOT condoning angry outbursts, nor do I know if your WH is a 'scary' person. All I can say is that it IS possible for someone to vent their anger and hurt that way and still not pose any physical threat to those around them. (now, had OM been there at the time...that might have been another story).

Does your WH have a history of violent outbursts or behavior? Have you ever felt physically threatened by him? If so, THEN I would have some concern.

I went through the same sitch w/my exhusband...I stayed in that marriage for 15 years...put up with it all because of DD. My friends all knew...but they all said the same thing, "Only you will know when you have had enough." one day we were on vacation with his business partner and wife...I picked up the phone called one of our employees and said, coming home...and I left them all there down in Key West, took a shuttle back up to Ft. Lauderdale and never looked back..he begged, he pleaded...but he still managed to find the time to find a new play toy that he met on adultfriendfinder.com...throughout our separation...he lied about all the women while we tried to work things through. Counselor after counselor told me some people just can't commit and should never get married...he was one of them.

His exGF is now my dearest friend, she came to me when she found out about all the women he was seeing besides her...you can't change someone...he has finally settled down with one of those women, who ended up leaving her husband for him...two peas in a pod...neither of them even bother seeing or spending time with their children. Sad...

I commend you for your strength and courage. I wish you well in whatever choice you make.

Thank you all for your concern.

My WH is not a violent person. The holes in the walls were a result of him realizing the effects of his wayward actions. I was there when one of them 'appeared'. They have been there for several months now.

We were on our way to recovery the past few weeks before the events of last night. He really thought we could recover without my knowing about OW2.

Prior to last night we did some talking. On one occasion I listened to him cry and tell me about the abuse he experienced growing up. I watched as he began to clench his fists and walk around the apartment. Like Owl's wife I know that my husband will not hurt me. So on the night I calmly walked over and even though he asked me to step back I stood there and hugged him tightly until his body relaxed. I am not afraid of my husband...he will not physically hurt me.

I am really appreciative to all of you for inquiring about this. Thank you.

Thank you for sharing your story with me Sadie. I know that I will not tolerate 15 years of this crap.

I am at a point now where I can think clearly about my situation. WH called me twice this afternoon as he was driving the six hours to SIL's house. I missed both calls. When I realized he had called I was neither happy nor angry...just 'oh, okay'. I called him back...asked what he wanted...he tried to chat with me, ask about my day. I cut him off...I'm terribly busy at work...gotta run. He asked me to call him later. I said 'yeah, maybe'...heard the disappointment in his voice as we said goodbye.

I feel great today. I really, really do. What a wonderful feeling!

I remember the rush of emotion when I made my decision back then. Just an FYI, you may feel great now...but you may later on feel yourself questioning yourself and your decision and have a little crash...there are many wonderful people on here that will be there for you if you ever go through that. It's quite normal...we are humans with a heart.

I think you handled yourself quite well...WOW!!

newlywed,

You don't know me and probably haven't seen me here since I haven't been around much in a few months.

I see so much of my own situation in what you are writing. I admit to not reading all of your history but when I read young, two affairs, newly wed..... honey, I gotta tell you my heart just broke for you.

I'm 33. I married at 21. My ex cheated on me after we were engaged, before we were married. I excused it to his age, we got past it. (I was also pregnant so that added to my incentive to stay).

Fast forward 15 months. We have a wonderful baby. My husband adores me and we are making a pretty good life for two young parents. He gets deployed.

Cheats 5 times while he's gone.

Damn, he's sorry though. Very sorry. And I found out two weeks after he left that I'm pregnant again. Those affairs happened over the 8 months he was gone (deployed) and I was home with our baby and pregnant.

He comes home. I find out. He begs and pleads and is REALLY SORRY this time. He KNOWS he has a problem but can't stand the thought of not having me or our children. He'll spend the rest of his life proving how much he loves us and regrets his choices.

Ok. Fast forward 8 years.

Yep. He cheats again with a 22 year old girl he is deployed with for a few months. We have two beautiful girls and a brand new baby.

That's 7 affairs right?

Nope. He'd been cheating without my knowing it during those 7 "good" years.

This type of character issue doesn't usually resolve itself. And the people who have this type of character flaw are GREAT at apologies and persuading you to believe them. That ability (in my belief) is part of what allows them to justify their own behaviour to themselves.

11 years later, countless tears and 3 little shattered children later.... I realized what I should have had the strength to do a long time ago.

I looked in the mirror and realized I deserved better.

My children deserved better.

It's the hardest thing I ever did.

But it is usually the tough things in life that are worth fighting for.

Good luck.

FIM

Keep feeling good. I know it's because you've got your power back. It sucks that happened this way and I'm so sorry it worked out like this. But now that you have this power, use it wisely as Yoda would say. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Sadie -


I am a little worried about this. I've been on this roller coaster for seven months now. I'm tired. I know that I'll miss him and question things. I think it's gonna be really different this time. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I will say this only once to you. Don't kill the messenger here.

IF you take this man back and reenter a life with him knowing what you know now, you 100% deserve EVERYTHING that comes your way in the future with him. IT IS ALL ON YOU !!!There will in reality be no futher betrayals, because in taking him back, you are "getting exactly what you are paying for". You know what you are getting. Men like him RARELY, if ever change.

Good luck....sadly, I think you will need it when you take him back after he professes his profound sorrow yet again.....just ask K72 how this works......"but this time will be different"...........will become your life's calling card.

Once again, please don't shoot the messenger....read the message.

Lem <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

FIM - How awful! I can't believe you went through this. Thank you for sharing this.

I am scared that this might be my future if I stick around. The boy needs help...he has too many outstanding issues from his childhood. He asked me this morning to schedule a MC appointment for next week. It may be a little too late. But why is it that I want to do this in order to help him?...that perhaps he'll start seeing an IC to work through his issues.

He has called me five times today...I only spoke to him 2 of those times and kept the call very short. I think he's catching on. Usually he's the one who won't answer the phone or cuts me off. And now he's not enjoying this. And I'm not being vengeful ... I really don't want to talk to him. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

Lemonman - Thank you for your straightforward bluntness. I know that by staying with him I'll be setting myself up to be in this situation again. I know that I need to walk away from this relationship. I love him so much...he has so much potential....he was so wonderful before. But that guy is gone... This is really hard.

If ever I was worried about someone it would be you. Those words above made me shiver. SO much "potential"........ugggh.....Newleywed......just remember the word REALITY.........when you feel "weak" please reread the posts here and think R-E-A-L-I-T-Y...Cut the losses, get up above sea level...get this chaos out of your life.

Don't take him back and accept a life destined for despair, betrayal, and pain. You are worth more than that. Men like your WH..............DON'T CHANGE...........THEY DON'T.

Lem

"But why is it that I want to do this in order to help him?...that perhaps he'll start seeing an IC to work through his issues."

That's called co-dependency. I suggest you leave. He is a big boy. If he decides to change, he can arrange counseling on his own. You need to stay out of it.

If he went to counseling, and showed you (while living separately for at least a year) permanent changes, then you could think about staying married.

[quote
If he went to counseling, and showed you (while living separately for at least a year) permanent changes, then you could think about staying married. [/quote]

And I would EMPHASIZE the word "think" here.......

Truthfully, and I hope I am wrong, but all of the vibes I am getting from you tell me that you are just a few phone calls, a tearful cry, and promise of "counseling" from taking him back......and "trying"...and no doubt thinking to yourslef deep down inside...."I know this time it will be different". I hate to be an A-hole and say "I told you so", but I will say it in advance, so I don't seem so harsh...

Remember....."don't kill the messenger"...........

Lem

I really don't know at this point LM. I'm definitely getting my own place. And I'm not rushing back into this R. I feel that I can walk away and be fine with my decision. I hear what you and everyone else are telling me. And honestly, I've known since a month after the first D-day that this relationship would not recover. It's just allowing the realization to sink in that is so hard.

In understand all that.....it is hard, and you will have setbacks and struggle, but you can overcome this and propser....

As an aside, I see that you have been with the Wayward for over5 years, how many affairs do you think he has had in that span..........?(hint...it is MORE than 2).

Don't fail to take that into account.

Lem

LM- I know you think that but I don't. Call me naieve. But we went through a lot of crap in our lives right before our wedding. Things that typical engaged/newlywed couples usually don't and should never have to deal with. I carry some guilt with me for contributing to his frustrations that led him astray.

Lemonman is so right, newlywed.

Look at it this way too. I said his "potential" was so great too.

You know what, my house has potential, my yard has potential. In the end, even I have potential.

You know why all of those things have potential.

Because I can change them. I can have a direct impact on them.

You can not change your husband.

He only has as much potential as he gives himself.

FIM

I think you definitely need at the very least some time away from all this.
You can't make good decisions with all this mess going on around you.

Maybe you could tell him you won't even think about MC until he starts IC, sticks with it, and shows some serious progress.
(verified by the counselor)
Just a thought....

And this new OW, all I can say is wow. Not many people today would help you like she did. At the very least, the most they would do would be to disappear...

I honestly didn't think so either.

I SWORE that. I know I wrote here many times that I knew about every affair. People would tell me that I didn't know about them all (Lemonman was one of those!)

I hope you're right.

But realistically, there's double what you know about.

FIM

Newlywed, it is certainly ok with me with what you choose. I think your mind is already made up even if you have not admitted it to yourself here. That is ok, it is your life and you certainly are entitled to live it the way you see fit. That is what makes this board so good. You can take and discrad what you want.

In the end, you are 100% responsible for what happens in your life. I don't mean to sound like a broken record, but I will just say "goodluck".

I hope you can find forgiveness for yourself for the "frustartions" that contributed to your WH to be "led astray".

LEm

Thank you LemonMan for your opinions...I will most definitely take them into consideration. I haven't made up my mind yet either way, but I like what TTSI has suggested. However I do not want to spend my life asking questions and wondering. Thank you for your time this evening.

And I might add, that I believe that is a "conservative" number. So many people here like to believe that it was a "one time thing" a slight abberant behavioral moment....maybe that is true, but I would bet a rather large sum of money, that this isn't usually the case....ofcourse I have no way of defending that statement, but it is one, that is beared out in my experience and those I have personally known who have experienced infidelity. Many proclaim that their D-Day was on such and such day.....but you have to wonder how many "D-Days" were left uncovered..........sadly, I am sure more than you or I want to admit.

Lem (call me brash, harsh, an insensitive A-hole......but also call me a "realist")

NW -

I really and truly hope you will stick around here, and keep reading. Infidelity is bad enough, but when you have been married many years, and have children, it is a thousand times worse.

Often the WS leaves the family, doesn't support them, and abandons the children. This is the rule, rather than the exception.

I don't care what kind of stuff you went through before with this guy. I don't care what his problems are. You are very, very early in this marriage to have these kinds of problems.

Definitely not the way to have a long and successful marriage.
I don't know if the feelings of having to know where they are, what they are doing, etc, ever really go away.

I just want you all to know that I listened to what everyone had to say last night and have been thinking about it today. Yes, I still have a LOT of thinking to do.

TTSI - You're right...I need a break from this mess.

Believer - I agree this is too much for a young marriage. I will encourage him to go to IC but I think I need to keep some distance from him.

With everyone's opinions of my H, I'm sure that my break will be the perfect excuse for him to find another OW. So if that's the case then this decision is easy for me.

I have been receiving phone calls from H every few hours since he's been out of town. I'm actually relieved to have him gone so I don't have to deal with him this weekend. He just told me on the phone that he thinks that we need to plan things for just the two of us for the next several weekends.

OW2 emailed me yesterday...did I mention she's 43? (no offense to anyone, just a fact)...offering me advice and telling me that I deserve so much better...apologizing repeatedly because she didn't know. I received two more emails from her this morning. She's been having awful dreams because she's so upset by this and angry with my H for using her and making her the OW. It's odd given the situation, but if I met her any other way I'd like her...I actually have respect for her.

OT - It's strange to think that you nameless people know so much about me. Yet I hang out here with you all the time. I look forward to 'checking in' on everyone. Thanks.

Well Chin up girl -

Did you read Faithinme's story? She did an perfect Plan A, and a good Plan B, and her WH still took off with the OW. It turns out he had several other affairs too.

She just got married to a wonderful man. And she has 3 little ones.

Walk away. You have your whole life ahead of you. A coward dies a thousand times, a hero dies but once.

Walk away, grieve and move on. This man cannot be fixed. You have no children-why would you want to have them with him. Read Faithinme's story. She did everything right, the man was just a cheater from the get go. You can't fix a narcissitic personality. You do not want to have a child with him-he would torture it like Faith's X did. You have a chance of a bright future without this man. I've been around for a long time, I've seen them come and go. Your chances of being cheated on with this man are very high, maybe not in the next year, but maybe in 5 years when you have two kids at home and have quit your job. There are other fish in the sea, throw this one back. Maybe you and the OW can grieve together. She sounds like a nice lady.

Newlywed... I am a fws... and I hesitate to compare stories bc everyone is different... but your wh sounds a lot like my om except he had been married longer and had had many many ow (2-3 a year)... supposedly they were only about sex (not that that would have made a difference to his wife)... with me, he graduated a his "first full fledged affair" (yeah, I need a labotomy). Anyway, he also had personals on yahoo, a profile on AdultFriendFinder.com and I don't know what else. I chalked it all up to childhood issues too. I ended up telling my husband, he did not expose (that threat is saved incase I don't hold up my end of the bargain of nc), but om continues his spree (I found out about Adultfriendfinder.com after the affair was over). So... all I am saying is there are people out there like this... and he has a two year old son... if you don't cut and run now (I don't advocate either way) make sure you know what the potential is. Oh yeah, as the OW I heard the "I love my wife, but I am not in love her" story from him too. It's all too predictable. I had my own issues and made my own stupid choices, but hubby and I are in recovery now. Do I think of om's wife? Not then, but now all the time.

I actually had a good weekend since H was gone. I was able to continue with my clear headed thinking. You know how you all say that when the WS wants to recover he'll come to you with the plan? I was always told previously by WH that he doesn't know what to do...or what would make me (the BS) happy.

When he came back last night I decided that I would be there. (Despite the fact that all of you MBers think I should run for the hills.) He called me every few hours all weekend. Usually I was short with him or I didn't answer at all. Yesterday on his drive back he called and we had a short R talk. I basically told him that I didn't know what I was going to do, wanted, etc. but there may be an extremely small window of opportunity for him. Last night he presented me with his plan to recover from this. In his plan were the list of boundaries that I gave him and many of his own additions...including the canceling of all of his open email accounts, staying away from the computer/internet where he admits to feeling tempted to view porn and chat with women, disposing of his porn collection, transparency, always letting me know where he's going/ who he's with, only making plans that include me, MC and IC, going to the gym after work so we can arrive home close to the same time (he usually has a couple hours to himself each afternoon).

He said that OW2 was just sex and that he thought that we were really done...we had had NC for six weeks (no excuse, I know). He cried while he explained to me that he couldn't possibly expect me to forgive him yet because he can't forgive himself until he does everything he can to try and fix things. He said the reason why he couldn't show me any affection the last few weeks (while I thought we may be in recovery) was because he felt so guilty and had no idea how to come clean about OW2.

He was very sincere and opened up to me (which is extremely difficult for him). He said that he is going to show me that this is what he wants...he knows that I can't trust his words. I told him that I will be sleeping on the sofa... that I still have a lot of thinking to do...that at this point he has a very low balance in my LB and that if he falters on any of these things that he says he's going to do that I'm gone.

I feel very differently about things now. Before I was in a constant state of reacting to his words and actions...constantly LBing. I think that I finally have the control that I knew I needed to make decisions.



p.s. You all keep comparing my situation to FIM. Thank you for giving me things to think about and I will keep this in mind. However, let me point out, and NO I am absolutely not making excuses, FIM's WH was away a lot of the time. I think that it's important for a couple to be together in the same home if they are to have a healthy relationship or are to recover from something like this.

I think you are on the right track. For the first time you aren't asking for advice, you are letting us know what your plan is.

I do have one question for you that you didn't address, are you guys going to go to MC? I know you mentioned earlier that WH was reluctant to go, does he still feel the same?
How do you feel about it?

The reason I ask is, it seems like now would be a good time to have a professional help to mediate with you both.

I'm sorry all this had to happen for you to get to this point NW. You know I'm not very religious, but I can't help but spout off something my mother says to me all the time, "When God closes a door, He opens a window" Maybe, this is your window.

Newlywed,

I am truly glad to see that you're thinking things through and feel you may be moving in a positive direction. I wish the best for you and hope you are able to recover and one day have a great marriage with this man.

I do want to point something out though... just to think about.

My ex was a reservist. His affairs seemed to follow deployments, but I later learned I simply didn't know about the ones going on at home. I allowed myself a false sense of security...and I kind of rationalized the situation...as "He'd never do that if he was with me every day. I'm enough for him, and always have been when he is actually with me." I told myself I never would have put up with it if he had been coming home to me while cheating.

Anyway.....

After my ex's first affair, we spent a LOT of time together. He didn't spend considerable amounts time away from home for a year and a half.

After the second round of affairs (they happened when he was deployed, but remember, he was a reservist so he wasn't gone then except for long term deployments) we really committed to spending more time together and to couseling. We did counseling for 4 months, he cried, he felt guilty, he was SO CONVINCING, and I honestly believe that HE believed he wouldn't do it again. After that deployment, he didn't deploy again for 7 years.

For the next year and a half after he had returned from the deployment, we did everything together. We went out at least one night a week together... never once did we miss a week in a year and a half. We went camping and intertubing as a family. We went to the mountains. It really was a great year and a half. Even after that we were always together. After a few years, he took a job that he travelled a lot in. But still, on the weekends, we did things together. Had you asked any of our friends, they would have told you we were a great couple, a stable family. We were so okay in fact, that we decided to have another baby.

As it turns out though, he had been having affairs the whole time. During the "I'm so repentant" and spending so much time together years... CHEATING. During the travelling but missing his family so much and spending his weekends with us phase.... CHEATING. I didn't find out about these until after this latest affair which caused our divorce. But all along, with me or without me, he had been cheating. While deciding we should have another baby, cheating. While being an usher at church and counseling friends about their marriages and infidelity....cheating.

Some people, and I don't know that your husband is one of them, will find any excuse.

Recovery from an affair is ugly and hard. Without a strong will, it's even harder.

I'm only pointing this out because, as other posters have pointed out, you don't have children at this point. I know the pain of going through it without children and I am in NO WAY belittling that. It is horrendous and it's scary no matter what.

I'm just saying that there are some things to continue thinking about in walking down the path of recovery. There were big huge signs all along that I should have been looking at that I didn't. Multiple affairs are an indicator of a deeper problem.

The amount or quality of time spent with me was not an indicator of Dork's ability to cheat.

His own selfishness, compartmentalization, lack of respect and feeling of entitlement WERE indicators.

Sometimes it's simply a character issue and you can't change that with any amount of time put in.

I hope that's not the case with you. Really, I do. Just be careful as you go forward in your marriage or in starting a family. Best of luck.

FIM

We, as BS's, tell our WS's over and over that if they are willing to meet our needs we will give them the time to prove it to us.

Granted, NW has had to deal with a 2nd d-day to get to this point, but it seems her WH has reached the bottom of his rope and realized what he's about to lose. He's come to her on his knees ready to meet her needs and ready to do what it takes to prove himself to her. It only seems fair that if she wants to grant him that gift of time, she can.

Only time will tell if she's making the right decision for herself. Honestly, children aren't the only reason to stay and work on a marriage. I'm personally getting a little tired of reading that, but that's my issue.

Anyway, NW, if giving him the time to prove it to you is what you want, then don't forget to protect your heart and I hope for only the best.


{{{{{{NW}}}}}}

These will be the words that you live by for the rest of your life.

Congratulations !

Best of luck

Lem <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Thank you for your support but I'm a little irritated. I realize that you people are trying to give me good advice, but why are you telling me to run rather than support me and help me with what to do next? Why does everyone assume that because of our ages and the fact that we have no children our marriage is not worth saving? There are several others on here who have dealt with multiple OP, some without children even, and they received encouragement.

I have made a LOT of mistakes in plans A & B that could have pushed my H in the direction he went in. I was in a constant state of reacting. I was lost, hurt. I could not pull myself together enough to stick to the plans most of the time. I left and returned to our home several times after D-day #1. WH never knew if I was coming or going or if I wanted to save this marriage…and neither did I.

We spoke right before I left the country for a two-week vacation and I told him that there's nothing else I can do to save this marriage if he's not in it with me. I told him that the deadline had been reached and when I return from my trip I am going to find an apartment of my own and make decisions for me. I can see how this could be interpreted as us being over...however I know that if he really still wanted this he wouldn't have done what he did. Aaargh.

Yes, you may be right but give me constructive advice rather than make it more difficult for me. I've asked H to join MB, to read the stories and post. He said not now, he's not ready for that. This is the first time in all of this that we are on the same page…and that I have any sense of calmness and clarity.

If this is the only advice you have for me then there is no point in my spending anymore time around here. I am a very intelligent, practical person who usually makes good decisions. I know that my H is a good person who has made some mistakes. Quite honestly so have I. I thought that this was a marriage-building site…I came here to learn how to do just that.

Newlywed,

I wish you the best. I'm going to bow out of this.

No one here is suggesting that your marriage isn't worth saving because of your age or because you don't have children. I certainly never did. Infidelity is pain for anyone going through it.

The POINT behind people pointing that out is that should you find yourself in this position a third or fourth time...with children... there are more than you and your husband to consider.

This is a marriage building site and I for one can say I repeatedly said that I hope you can work it out.

People here have been where you are and beyond. The stories are all different yet eerily similar in some respects. Everyone here knows first hand the pain and destruction, the hope and the fear that come alone with adultery.

I can't think of a single person here who wouldn't be hoping and rooting for your marriage to survive and thrive and in the event that doesn't happen, for you to be happy.

Constructive advice HAS been given. Guard yourself and your heart. Go for it if that is what your heart says.... but you should be protecting yourself and keeping your eyes wide open in the process.

WHY? Because we care. Because we have all cried. We've all been exactly where you are. Your last post was almost exactly what I've written more than once, what most others have felt.

Please don't mistake constructive, caring and actually supportive advice for other than what it is.

Again, best of luck to you and your husband.

FIM

FIM -

No, you haven't said my marriage isn't worth saving. I'm sorry if I've offended you with my post. I find your story to be invaluable, and quite honestly, what I fear the most. I am frustrated, I guess. I want my H and I to be happy, yet I can see my living a happy life without him. It is extremely hard to walk away when he insists he loves and respects me and our marriage and will do what it takes to show me. I guess I need to stick in the marriage awhile longer so that I know for sure. My heart is very guarded right now so recovery may not be possible on my end.

Anyway, thank you. I will continue reading your old posts as there are many of them and plenty I've yet to read.

NW -

You didn't offend me. I realized that you were seeing something you might not want to. It's a natural step.

I had to see my marriage through to the point I did too. I understand that. For me, I wanted SO badly to believe my WH even when deep deep down in a place I wouldn't even acknowledge, I knew he wasn't going to change.

That's the only reason I said I was bowing out of this thread. I'm still going to read as I find that I feel protective of you and I don't even know you. But I think your situation reminds me too much of my own and I think you are seeing too much of what could be in my marriage ending. I'd hate see you want to prove people wrong so much that you fight past where you want to. Again, I'm probably projecting too much of myself, but I know that prolonged my situation.

You will find that people here are going to support you. I still believe that my life really started going forward once I found this site. The people here have supported, challenged and changed me.

You may not always hear what you want, but it may be just what you need.

Good luck!

FIM

newlywed...
I have not posted to you before...

I think that a time of seperation is very difficult for both spouses. No one imagines being seperated so soon after getting married...I am not exucing your H's actions, however, it could have been just a mistake on his part that he will strongly regret ...

I think people here are concerned that as a young couple you have much to deal with...My best friend's H cheated on her 6 months into the marriage, what turned into a 6 months A. It was difficult for her to deal with and it was quite shocking given that it was so soon after the wedding, but nevertheless, she stayed...yes, at some point she got to the stage you are in, where you know you can walk away, but you don't yet. She felt she could only walk away knowing she did everything and gave her M a chance. I think this is where you are at and if you feel you need to stay - do. Now, 4 years later, my friend is in a happily recovered marriage...and you have that chance too.

I don't know where we should draw the line about how many A (EA or PA) are too much...Yes, I have to admit that 2 is a lot, but still, I think this is really the first chance you are giving him to work on it...now that he is saying he will do anything to make it work...

I don't think the number of years in a M (or the number of children) should determine how hard we work on our M or how much we forgive...

I am not dealing with an A, but since my H left (no talk of D) I have been asked many times 'when am I filing for D', and you are young, you will find someone else...etc...
Even though I have only been married 2 years(no kids), I still feel strongly that my M deserves a chance just like any M!

{{{{{{{NW}}}}}}}}

Take care.

Daisy

NW,

Your latest posts are totally 180 from your first posts on this thread. So you had a cooling off period and he is begging you, promising by his actions to change, etc,etc.

""I've asked H to join MB, to read the stories and post. He said not now, he's not ready for that.""

I BEG YOUR PARDON?? He is ready to do anything to keep the M alive...but go to the one place where you find comfort?

This does not compute!

"" I am a very intelligent, practical person who usually makes good decisions.""

If you say so.

k

???? Just curious, why not put him on the couch?

I understand what you're saying, however, H is not comfortable talking to anybody. He has a hard enough time talking to me and his sister (his closest family member). I think he's afraid that everyone here will beat him up. This was a suggestion I made and he is not opposed to it, but right now I'd much rather get him to a MC and an IC. I've shared some of these stories with him. With time I think you will see him on here.

Bill - I can not sleep in the bedroom because he and OW2 had their one night PA there. It sickens me enough to just walk in the room.

My absolute best advice.....

Stay away for now. He agrees to IC, with your choice of counselor. And pick a good one...

6 months of that, and if counselor is convinced he's working things and has made improvements, then you agree to MC.

You really need to find out if he just wants to hang with you until the next OW comes along or not.
No words should ever convince you of that either.

You know how you can tell if a WS is serious about repairing the marriage?
By making extreme demands on them, and they agree to do them.

And well, by extreme, I mean the normal demands that BS would put on their spouse. At least the demands that I would make..... But to s WS, they will seem extreme because they just don't get it. And they won't, not for awhile.

A suggestion for you Newly....go to the Recovery Board.

Read and Read and Read. You are at the point where you need to decide for yourself if you want to recommit to this marriage. Your heart is there, you need to get your head in sync and find out what you're up against.

Recovery is a hard process. You may or may not be at the start of that process.

Read what issues come up for a BS during recovery. Are you ready to handle those issues FOR YOURSELF?

There will be issues regarding trust, regarding your self-esteem, your anger, regaining your sex life....there are so many -- are you willing to deal with those? Are you going to be able to handle it if he quits counceling? Can you handle it if he doesn't disclose contact? Can you handle it if he doesn't understand your triggers? What if he stops being this incredibly remorseful husband and wants you to stop talking about it? Are you willing to deal with those issues?

You don't have to. You've earned your way out. But if you're gonna dabble in recovering this marriage investigate what that process is going to be like. Learn the road ahead. Decide then if you want to take that road.

Ok, I know you've gotten a lot here, and a lot of it has sounded like people telling you to jump now. I can understand that. You might end up reading this as me telling you that too. But it's not exactly what I'm going to say here. I do think you are dealing with the same kind of questions that I was dealing with after DDay in my situation, and I'm hoping maybe I can help a little.

First, let me say - XH and I had no kids. We were married just under 10 years on DDay. But I'd known for several years before that that something was wrong, I just didn't know what, and couldn't get him to talk to me about it.

Dday was not really a surprise to me. I had started suspecting my WH of being a WH for at least 6 months or so. He had of course been denying it the whole time. When he told me about the A, I asked why he had told me, and he said it was because he had realized how wrong he was, and he wanted to fix things between us, and try to make our marriage work.

A little later, the OW called me. I didn't necessarily believe anything she said, but the fact that she called spoke volumes. When I confronted him, he denied it at first, but finally admitted what I already knew - he only told me because she was going to, and he was beating her to it.

Then came the months of him swearing that she had been the only one, and that it was over between them. During those months, little things would keep popping up that bothered me, that made me think he was not being truthful. But he always had answers for them all. So, I believed him. I loved him, and I wanted to believe him. And we had a lot of years invested together.

And then we had a second DDay. He was still in contact with her. I knew it, I just hadn't wanted to know it. But THIS time, he was really going to stop. Well, ok. So, we went on. We went to counseling. Right up until he walked out to be with her. Left a note that said in three different places that he really didn't think it was over between us, but he just had to go be with her to "find out."

At that point, I realized I had a decision to make. It was clear from the note that it was only a matter of time before he would show up wanting back in. And if I let him, I would have just established the pattern of the rest of my life. Because why would he try for anything more? I would have just shown him that he could walk out, do whatever he wanted with whomever he wanted, and when he was ready, come back home, and I would roll out the welcome mat.

Or, I could just turn him away. And then I would spend the rest of my life wondering if he could have turned it around, if maybe he really was sincere that time. Wondered if I gave up on our marriage too easily.

So I realized I needed a third way. I needed to provide him a way to come home that would prove to me he was sincere, that things had truly changed. So, I promised myself that when he called wanting to come home, no matter what he said, no matter how he begged and pleaded, my answer would be that we could try, but that he couldn't come home for at least a year. And during that year, he obviously couldn't continue to live with or see her, but he couldn't live with me either. And that we would have to go to marital counseling. And there would be no guarantees, that I was going to have to see some real effort from him during that year.

Within 2 1/2 months I had my answer. During that time, I uncovered evidence that he had been doing on-line personals for at least 3-4 years and maybe longer, that there had been at least 2 or 3 other women which, if not full-fledged physical affairs, were headed in that direction, and that he had never quit living with OW. He had been going to counseling that whole time with me, seeing one of our church ministers who is also a counselor, and lying to us both about where he was living. That told me all I needed to know about his character and whether or not the marriage could be saved, or was even worth saving.

------

I think your situation is similar in that your WH appears to be someone who may be hiding more than you think. I think that's what most of the people here who have posted cautioning you about reconciling with him have been concerned about. With some men, this sort of thing isn't a temporary abberation, but a way of life. And there are a few signs this may be the case with your WH.

You need to set the bar really high. And start doing a lot of looking around. Because sometimes, the guy we married doesn't really exist - he's just a facade that other guy is good at putting up, for a while anyway.