Was reading the spot deception thread and a funny memory occurred.

My husband has always been a major sleep-talker. Shortly after his A started, before I ever noticed anything else different in his behavior, the very first thing I noticed is that he quit sleep-talking. He still doesn't sleep-talker about a year into the recovery process. Isn't that strange?

The big tipoff that I wouldn't face was when his time was unaccounted for, and when I asked him to explain it, he yelled at me for "checking up on him". I said, "You've always been open about it in the past, so what's different?"

He never answered that question, just avoided answering. At the time I couldn't bring myself to believe he could be having an A. Didn't I feel stupid later. But like "The Who" I won't get fooled again.

What are the unusual behavior changes you noticed?

It might be my imagination, but my FWW seems to be almost obsessed with her job now. The FOM is still working with her as a member of her staff, but she insists that there is no personal contact between them. She's pretty straightforward with me concerning what's going on at the office, and I don't believe she's hiding anything. It's possible that she's trying to fill a "gap" with work, or perhaps prefers to think about work rather than anything else at this point. For the last few days we've had some time off from work, and I've seen signs of the wonderful person that I fell in love with, but now the e-mails have started rolling in about some drama that's going on back at the office - she's apparently getting involved in an office politics battle that threatens to pit herself and the OM against others (no-one at the office knows about the A, or at least that's the way they're currently acting). I might start another thread on this subject later, because it's a bit troubling to me.

My H had alot of nightmares before d-day. He would wake up upset, tell me he had a very bad dream but then couldn`t remember what the dream was about.

For a period after d-day the nightmares continued but he could remember those and he could into great detail while recounting them to me. The dreams were about the OW`s and the things they would do to break up the M. He also had nightmares about me leaving with an OM.

My H had appalling back pain for years - saw specialists and everything.

Since d-day, he's been absolutely fine.

Let's see, the odd behavior that set my alarms off were:

1. He stopped calling me on his way home from work to just chat and talk about his day;
2. He started spending more time on his computer at night;

3. Sudden personal "manscaping" that had never occurred before; <---Probably the oddest behavior on the list, but this is also the same behavior that was repeated recently and made me decide to give Plan B letter after all.

4. Intrest in different clothes, needed a particular brand of pants;
5. Began asking me if he looked good - "does this shirt look ok?", "how do these pants look on me?"
6. Started setting alarm clock to wake up on weekend days that he planned on "just going for a drive";
7. Answered questions with questions;
8. Became defensive VERY easily and quickly.

"Manscaping"?

***"Manscaping?"***

Don't you watch *Queer Eye for the Straight Guy*? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

That would be shaving, waxing, trimming and otherwise grooming one's body hair. Especially one's very *personal* body hair.
Mulan

Odd Behavior that I ignored included:

No longer telling me where he was staying on business trips.

Nearly panicking when I suggested accompanying him on a trip and then coming up with 1000 reasons why I shouldn't come along.

Freaking out about his mother making plans for my birthday on a day during one of his "business trips"

No interest in SF at all, ever.

Really makes me feel like I was in FOG!

When I first suspected my H of having an A, he was very defensive about my checking his e-mail account that I knew the password to. He accused me, too, of checking up on him. "You act like I'm having an affair, or something". (kinda funny now) Also, one night he was half-asleep and said that I had the most beautiful green eyes (mine are blue, OW are green). He must have realized what he said, because I leaned forward and whispered in his ear "what's my name". he got that answer right.

"Manscaping",I like that term!

This topic has been around for ages.For me:

1) Huge loss of weight
2) Dyed blonde hair
3) Listening to head banging music
4) Appeared disheveled,instead of "spruced up"
5) Appeared depressed
6) Secretive
7) Withdrew from family,wife,sex,other activities,etc
8) Irritation level on high

To name a few.WH wasn't living full time at home then.

O

Er.... no. With all the time I'm spending on the MB forums these days, who has time for TV? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />.



Ah. Hmm... Ok, I do that every now and then, when the lark catches me. I should have caught on that something was up when my FWW stopped noticing (grumble, grumble).

I didn't suspect at all during the A. It is only in retrospect that I can trace his chnage in behavior toward me and the kids - very hateful - to that time period. I had attributed it all to stress.

Our 21st anniversary fell during the A. I planned and paid for a lovely mini-vacation to a Caribbean island as a get-away for our anniversary. My mom came to look after the kids. My thought was that we needed time away alone together to reconnect. The first night there was wonderful. We went out to dinner and it was extremely romantic and lovely. The next day - the day of our anniversary - while I was dressing in our hotel room, H went downstairs to the hotel lobby to use the internet on the kiosk provided by the hotel, received an email invitation from OW for their pre-screw public meeting (H was on AdultFriend Finder.com) and immediately emailed back his acceptance of her invitation. After that, the rest of our anniversary trip was all downhill. I couldn't understand why H was so distant from me on our anniversary. He barely spoke 10 words to me at dinner that night. The next two days he pursued a number of independent activities while we were on the island. I felt like we were on separate vacations together! Try as I might to recover the good feelings of our first night there, I just couldn't get anything out of him. It wasn't until a month later I discovered the A and matched up the email dates and all of a sudden his strange behavior and its sudden change made sense to me.

OK, I just realized that we may be talking about odd behaviour DURING the A, not afterwards (i.e. after D-Day and NC).

My FWW was VERY good at hiding the A from me. But, looking back now I should have noticed the changes in her behaviour - more distant, a lot more irritable, always seemed to have somethin on her mind, and somewhat more "private" than I was used to.

Dougswife,

Quote:I leaned forward and whispered in his ear "what's my name". he got that answer right.


Thanks for making me laugh out loud. Amazingly quick thinking on your part. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Hopefully you will see it funny at some time in the future

Ok, between Dougswife's quick wit with hubby's sleeptalking and StopTheWorldPls's hubby "manscaping", I now have to explain my not-so-subtle guffawing laughter to my poor, unsuspecting father-in-law who has NO idea I'm even on an infidelity forum...or why!

Like several others, I was only able to see H's odd behavior changes in hindsight. After D-day they glow like a neon sign. Guess I was in the fog too deep to notice.
1.Started calling me "clingy" when I'd be affectionate with him--and this is a guy who has BEGGED me for playful physical affection. Pulled away from my hugs and told me to "knock it off" when I pinched his butt.
2.Turned down my advances for SF...all of them...ouch.
3.Suddenly had an obsessive need for "me time".
4.Sleep was something he didn't seem to need. Truth came out and all of a sudden he slept like a baby. He COULDN'T sleep a few weeks before D-day, not just didn't need it.
5.Was VERY nasty with the kids--even our friends noticed.
6.Showers. Lots of them. And as soon as he'd come home from work. Quite unusual for him.
7.Stopped coming home for lunch and only wanted to sit at the computer when he was home.
8.Probably strangest of all, started wearing boxers after ten years of going "commando". I really don't want to know why.
9.Minutes after coming out of anesthesia from surgery, I walked into his room and the very first words out of his mouth were "where's OW?" Talk about a shot straight to the heart...I should have slapped him back into unconsciousness!

I didn't realize how some of these behaviors really aren't so odd. Mine didn't sleep much until recenlty either. He wears more clothes to bed than before. He is always on the computer!!!! Of course, now that OWH quit his job and is home more, I don't think they're able to chat as much. God is good to me!

* Dropped weight like crazy

* Stopped calling me during the day (I had been able to set a watch by him) because they work together and she might hear the conversation.

* His cell phone stopped ringing. He would get a couple calls in the evening from OW when they were just friends. Found out he would put his phone on silent so I couldn't hear it.

* Made excuses to go to the fire station to watch "training videos". Other firefighters complained the two of them were there too much for no reason but wouldn't confront them saying it was "none of their business".

It is amazing how cheaters seem to read the same script. You could almost see the next move before it happens. My

WH began wearing different clothes, always had to look nice when he didn't really care before.

He started trying all kinds of different colognes. Definately began "manscaping".

He changed his cell phone password for voice mail and yelled at me when I asked what the new one was.

He also began running a lot of errands that he never had to do before.

I really believed in my WH until the A. I was most honestly in a dense fog. Just not as dense as the one my WH lives in every day.

Loni
BS (me) 38
WH 38
DS 17
DD 14
DS 13

D day 2/2/2004
EA 11/2003 till 5/2005
Both deny PA
NC since 7/30/2005

I complained that wandering husband was at his mother's assisted living all the time. He explained that he was broken up over her condition, and needed extra time to spend with her. I did not suspect.
I finally had it with never seeing him until 8:00 pm at night and told him his mother was his number one priority. That made him snap and he then said, this is not working, I want a divorce.
He then gave me the, I don't love you, and haven't for the last ten years.
After that I watched carefully and started noticing the following.
1) Many cell phone calls and text messages.
2) He would go outside to place cell phone calls.
3) He would pretend to do something outside and place
cell phone calls.
4) As he was putting on cologne he made a comment to me was how he now does this because it doesn't burn like the aftershave does. Him saying this and drawing my attention to it, raised a big red flag. He repeated the same story to me the next morning while putting on the cologne.
5) He changed his passwords to his email, we both had the same password for years.
6) He would come home at 8:30-9:30 at night
7) He lost 85 pounds over two months
8) He started buying new things, shoes, clothes etc. (never did before) I always have bought all his stuff for him.
9) He became very secretive, and acted very hateful towards me.
10) He filled the mc with all kinds of crap, about how he needed space, I was too dependent on him, how we shouldn't have even gotten married, he was forced by my father when he was give the ultimatum to either marry me, or they were shipping me back after I graduated out of high school to my mothers. (This part was true, but he didn't have to marry me, that was his choice.)
11) And the mother of all mother was him saying he hadn't loved me for the past ten years and had been faking it.
12) After Discovery day, he would not see the counselor, he was to ashamed and embarressed because of the w/s crap he had been filling the mc with during our counseling sessions.
So if I had to make a condensed list it would be:
Lost weight
Acted hateful towards me
Came home very late using his mother for an excuse to see activities director at mother's assisted living facility
Bought new clothes, shoes, etc.
Asked for a divorce, space
Rewrote history
Received and sent over 94 text-messages and made over 29 cell phone calls to o/w not counting work phone, work cell phone and incoming calls from o/w that don't show up on bill.
His famous line when I asked him if he was having an affair with o/w was, no. He looked me straight in the eye while answering no. I then asked him if he was in love with her, he couldn't look me in the eye and glanced away but said no.
He then told me, Quoted "I really, really, like her."
My world ended with those words. I knew, though it would take me another two months to have it confirmed by the cell phone bill and the o/w herself.

H

10Swords,

My WW is also a sleepwalker/talker. I would often wake up during the night and she'd be holding a conversation about nonsense, or performing some repetetive task. From reading her email, I've found that once while she was having her A, she sleep-talked to me about an excursion she had with OM, even though I had no idea at the time.

I'm sure these have all been said but these were the biggies for me...

One day when we got her cell phone bill she actually opened it and looked it over made a weird face then gave it to me. Typically she wouldn't even open the thing, would just leave it laying around and hope that I paid it. At the time I thought of it as bizarre behaviour but just left it at that.

Then a couple of days later she went on a late night "shopping trip". Who shops from 11pm - 1am? (obviously she didn't put much thought into her lies) After that my sub conscious kicked in and I went straight for the phone bill. And guess what I found? A bunch of calls to a certain number including one specific one, early in the morning after we had a huge fight. I really hoped it was a really, really good girlfriend who I didn't know...

She also had a guilty look in her eyes. They say that the eyes are a portal to the soul, and I believe that. At the time I couldn't quite place it exactly, but I knew something was terribly wrong...

All in all if she was telling me the truth the A had only been going on a couple of weeks before I found out. I suspect there might have been other guys previously (in inapproriate relationships if not full blown PA's) though. Although I specifically asked her and she denied that. But we all know how WS' lie. Makes no difference to me now though!

Miker

He started cashing his own paychecks and handing me cash. In the past he just gave me his check because I handled our banking. His check had his hours and total pay attached. He was a contractual house painter, so I never knew exactly what he'd be bringing home each week. The money got less and less. "Oh, I'm just working fewer hours." No, he was "just helping support the OW and a few other female friends!"

He was in Recovery. Attended 5 AA/NA meetings per week for at least 4 years. All of a sudden he had a "spiritual crisis" and would go to meetings 7 days a week and sometimes 2 times a day. He and the OW met at AA/NA. There was a social part to the club where they could play pool, have coffee and cokes, etc.

Started carrying cologne in his truck. You know...to freshen up a little!

Went to lead an AA meeting on Christmas day...while his kids and mine were at our house for the holiday. Was gone for at least 4 hours. I asked why someone that wasn't married or didn't have family couldn't lead the meeting. He made it sound like I was being selfish, and he was doing such a good thing!

He took on a second job at night to help increase our income. He would only get home about 2 hours a day, at best. He'd sleep for maybe one hour and be up and going, looking quite chipper. Normally, if he'd had that little sleep from being up day and night, he would have fallen asleep and stayed asleep for a long time. Oh, and we never got a pay check from that job! The second job went on for 5 months! He was supposed to make $4,000.00. "Oh, they are giving me a hard time. The guy won't cut me a check, because there's touch-ups to do, etc." The only second job and touch-ups he had were with the OW!

He would spend more time on the phone and take his calls in our bedroom. Before he would have just talked in the general area where I was.

He wouldn't come to bed with me. He sat out on the couch, smoking, and watching TV, until I fell asleep.

I started feeling crazy, doubting myself, just like when he was drinking and drugging. I had gotten use to him being aboveboard, truthful, honest, trustworthy after being in Recovery for six years. I thought he had relapsed. I guess he did...but this time his drug of choice was the OW.

He would disappear at odd hours of the night or for long periods of time because "I have to go help a friend"...or "return some equipment". "You'd just be bored if you came along."

I really tried hard to be respectful of the anonymous nature of his AA/NA program and those he sponsored or supported. In looking back, I realized that the OW was making regular phone calls to him at our home for "support". This was before I knew there was an OW. I started to recognize her voice. I'd answer politely and hand the phone over to him. I always wondered why this person seemed so abrupt and rude with me!

He decided that he needed more "social life" with the guys from AA...not just meetings. So, he'd go out with the guys after meetings. He got home later and later. I had no social life. We used to do things together.

I got a mild STD. Easily treatable. Never had one before! My doctor called to tell me that it showed up in a routine pap. Both my WS and I needed to take medication for it. I was so upset that I asked my dr. to tell my husband. After the call, he asked me "So, do you have something you want to tell me???" What????!!!!

Oh yeah, I fogot to mention w/h had a nightmare where he was audiably upset and thrashing around mumbling things. This was after discovery day. My heart went out to him. I know he has been through ****** and his subconscience was giving him fits.

In addition to the usual script (I won't repeat all the things already said above <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />) my WH started getting really possesive about "his stuff". For example, everyone else in the family does their nails in the bathroom and that is where our manicure set is naturally kept. WH alsways does his in various places, the living room, dining room table (yuk <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />), or the garden terrace. After he has done his nails, the next person would have to search where WH left the maincure set. So one day, he bought his own manicure set because he got tired of always looking for it because no one but him put it back when they were finished. He forbid anyone else in the family to touch "his private manicure set". So we didn't. Then I found him in the bathroom taking the family manicure set out of its drawer in the bathroom. I said,"What are you doing?" WH."I'm going to do my nails." Me: "You have your own private manicure set. Use it." "I can't find it. It's not in my drawer where it is supposed to be." Me: "That's because you told me not to touch it, so I didn't put it back for you after you left on the terrace the last time you did your nails. The girls refuse to touch it, too, so it's probably still there." <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

Manscaping? That, too. Only all of my stuff was dissappearing. He started using all my creams and lotions ... the one luxury I afford myself and I use those creams so sparingly because they are sooooo expensive. They started dissappearing in much less than half the time and my WH started smelling like me <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />... he always denied using my creams though. Now that he's moved out everything lasts as long as used to pre-A.