Before I get to my delimena, here is a little back ground info: I'm a SAHM (Stay at home mom) of 3 children 15, 2 and 3 months. My first 2 children are from previous relationships, while the last is with my H of 16 months. Before I got married I always worked with the exception of the first 1 1/2 yr after the birth of my children. My H is in the Navy and spends time away from home more then the avg 9-5 hubby.

This is my problem, being SAHM is not an easy job at all. Most men will probably say that they could do it, no problem, with hands down (which is my H's exact words). But in reality our job never ends. I'm I asking too much to have my H help me with the kids and SOME household chores, Heck just cleaning up after himself. How do you compromise on the work that needs to be done? He expects me to do handle all the money, pay the bills, run the errands, get up the every 2 hours in the middle of the night with the baby, cook 3 meals a day...even fix him a glass of water. If I let him, he will totaly take advantage of me.

Where does the buck stop? This is all so new to me, I KNOW that i'm not the only one out there experiencing this, help?

white dove, I'm also a stay-at-home military wife. My H is Army, probably home more than a sailor, but still gone WAY more than the average civvy. It's been two years since his last deployment but his schedule has been a nightmare the entire time. Currently gone from 5am till 7pm every day of the work week, and he still spends five or six hours on weekends working at the computer with stuff he's brought home. We live for weekends, but sometimes it's just not enough. By the time he comes home at night, I'm totally wiped out. The few hours he gets to spend with the kids on his days off, I'm working my butt off to catch up with things I can't do with two toddlers underfoot.

It's apparent that one of your H's EN's is domestic support; it's also apparent that one of yours is affection--shown by acts of service, am I right? You'd probably pass out from shock if your H offered to take the kids out for ice cream for two hours while you pampered yourself in a bubble bath. Yet it's probably that kind of caring consideration that you crave--it would make you feel "cherished", correct?

How does your H respond when you approach him appealing to his need to protect you? Do you understand what I'm referring to? Most men (especially military guys who can only do so much when they ARE home and who feel totally disconnected otherwise) have an inner need to "protect" their woman--to be her "knight in shining armor", the strong set of arms she can rely on when life gets to be too much. Do you follow? Have you appealed to this side of him? For example, if you were to say "Honey, I am SO overwhelmed with everything here in the house, it feels like I just can't get ahead before the avalanche of housework collapses in on me again, would you mind helping me out with one or two things?", how would he respond?

It's the difference between what he would perceive as a selfish demand: "I have too much to do already, get your OWN glass of water", and a respectful request: "I would love to have the time and energy to do some things for you, but I need some help with thus-and-such".

It would help if he were able to define for you what he considers "your" responsibilities vs. what he is responsible for. What would he be WILLING to do if he knew it would make your life easier and help you be more willing to meet his needs?

By the way, just so you know I'm not jumping on your case, I did want to let you know that I know all too well that the "I could handle your job, I'd be glad to switch any day with you" is nothing more than blowing steam. My H had his opportunity a few weeks ago to do just that--have MY "job" for a day. When I came home, things were done, sure...the older two kids had made breakfast and lunch, done the dishes, cleaned their rooms and the living room, and plunked the babies in front of the TV (where they were NOT happy). H was working at the computer--researching the car parts he wanted to buy for his beater car. In other words, yes, he can "handle" my job--as long as he can micromanage it! LOL...a true NCO in action!!! As long as it "gets done", he can take credit for it, right? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

Alright, I'm done harping on him now...

When I was busy with kids, dinner, alundry, and working and my H asked me for soemthing I would say yes honey I would love one too. Once I said are your arms made of glass and we had a good laugh over that one. Sometimes a little humor works.

Hi white dove,

When I was a SAHM, I worked like crazy to make sure I met my H's EN for domestic support. The A taught me that he didn't need nearly as much DS as I thought, and that he would have been far happier if I'd just relaxed my impossibly high standards and hung out with him.

However, even if the current standards are mutually-agreed upon, it's important to remember your own needs. And, while he may not think of it in these terms, it's just as important to him that your needs are met as a happy and fulfilled wife will in turn want to/be able to give much more to the marriage.

I know this doesn't exactly answer your question about defining roles, but my suggestion to all my SAHM friends is to sign up for a weekly class in something they enjoy (not career-related). If it's yoga or swimming or some other physical activity, all the better. You win because you nurture your own self and a much-needed break. H wins because he gets to spend time with his kids (and a glimpse into the difficult life of a SAHM can't hurt either). Your kids win because they get some one-on-one with Daddy.

It has to be a weekly class so that no one can be accused of forgetting and you won't be as tempted to give in to your inner martyr as if it were an "optional" event.

I've also tried putting my needs in terms H understands. He has a list I wrote that he keeps carefully in his bedside table entitled "I feel like responding to you sexually when..." This isn't a tit-for-tat "you meet my ENs first and then I'll meet your ENs." It acknowledges that when I feel unappreciated or overworked, I have less energy and desire to spend on SF. There are specific things on there, including housework duties, that hopefully help to demystify my needs.

All the best - you've certainly got your hands full with all those little ones!

Best,

G

Camo, Realtor and Griselda,

thanks so much for your advice and response, sorry it took me so long to respond...I have been having computer problems...
Yes I would love for my H to take the kids out for ice cream so that I have can have some "me" time. I must admit that he offers to do that all the time for me. He always tells me that he will do this or that to help me. But I'm part of the problems b/c when I do leave even just to run errands, when I check in at home, the kids are yelling and crying he doesn't know where anything is or have any idea what the kids schedule is are what they need. I know that its hard on him and hard on the kids b/c they are use to having me around to take care of them. So in a nutshell I never take the break that I badly need.

As for the household chores, I can't say that he "never" helps me, but what I want more than him helping is to "understand" what I go through and not to take me for granted. For example if I start doing laundry and don't finish I want him be ok with it and not criticize me for not being able to finish.

When other couples had these problems how did they work it out? Do you sit down and make a list of everything that needs to be done and divide it up? Will it ever be fair? Can everyone be happy? How do you work it out?

Camo, OMGosh my H does the same thing to our 15 yr old. And by the way I'm really struggling with this b/c my H wants to have atleast 2 more children!!!

Whitedove..

I am glad you posted back..AND even more glad that you with some specific..

this isn't about traditional sahm /working dad roles...this is about your communication with your husband...and taking a look at things from all angles...

so the issue doesn't seem to to be how to get your husband to help..

but how for YOU to create an environment in which he feels empowered to take care of the kids.....
and you feel empowered to support him in doing so, so you are not checking up on him like a mommy...

so many times people don't like the answer but to change him which you can't do...
you really change yourself....
and then others come along...

As for the household chores, I can't say that he "never" helps me, but what I want more than him helping is to "understand" what I go through and not to take me for granted. For example if I start doing laundry and don't finish I want him be ok with it and not criticize me for not being able to finish.

this is my question on this...
do you spend a lot of time thanking him and admiring him for the work he does outside of the home to make it possible for you to stay home...

do you two BOTH communicate your appreciation in a way that it has become part of your vocabulary and part of your life...

if not that is a definitely a place to start....

do you make sure that you are happy excited to see him when he comes at night....and take a moment to welcome him home...

no matter how crazy the day...do you create a place where he WANTS to come home....to...?

When other couples had these problems how did they work it out? Do you sit down and make a list of everything that needs to be done and divide it up? Will it ever be fair? Can everyone be happy? How do you work it out?

I think the more you approach this with love and humor rather than lists and demands..the farther you get....

fair what is that....exactly...?
I would get rid of that thought totally...

and why in GODS name wouldn't you be happy...if you are going to let a pile of laundry interfere with happiness in life...might as well hang it up now...... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

you need to break the patterns that are set up so that you are the only one who knows how to do it...
the only one who knows where this or that is...

you need to slurp your husband up and down whenever he does something so that it motivates him to do more...and never ever tell him that his way his wrong....

do you see it...
do you see how so much of this is attitude

ARK

Ark,

Thank you soooo much for responding. In the beginning part of your responce I think you are basically asking me if I nag him when he comes home. No I don't. I'm not the nagger, he is. Yes he says that he wants to be home...although being in the Navy keeps him away from home whether he wants to be or not. The constant separation keeps that longing to be together there.

I think the main problem that I have with my H in this area of our realtionship is that "I" believe that he thinks that as his wife, I'm suppose to wait on him hand and foot, take care of the kids (by the way he wants more), pay the bills, keep the house clean, run him errands, cook 3 meals a day...etc. And all he has to do is go to work and bring home the money. I'm about 2 seconds away from putting the kids in daycare and going back to work.

Ark is an angel.

POJA.

Danger arises when a person starts to believe they're role or chore is more important or easier than the other persons contribution. ie. Housework is more harder than earning money to pay bills, (like your statement of "All he has to do is go to work and bring home the money" THAT IS SO DISRESPECTFUL) or holding a job is harder than managing a household with kids.

My STBX was a SAHM and I worked 2 sometimes three jobs. Whenever somebody asked if my W had a job I told them yes. If they asked what she did I told them she was a mother and housewife. And I told them that is a job. Because I respected the contribution it makes to the family and I truly believed it was work. (although completely different work demands than a paying job). Each component is important and needed.

I never felt like I was defending my STBX's role, I was proud of it. I only wish she had actually fulfilled that role more responsibly.

White_Dove bring the man a glass of water too. And he should give you a foot rub.

And why would you put the kids in daycare and go back to work? Do you need the money? I mean NEED the money. Or perhaps you think your kids most formative years should be spent being raised by strangers while you work?

I wasn't going to post this morning but needed to put in my 2 cents. Until last August, I had been a SAHM for nearly 20 years. Today will be the first day back after 2 weeks of Christmas break. I'm ambivalent about it.

There is no doubt that being a SAMH is one of the hardest jobs around. It's relentless. Things always need to be cleaned. Food always needs to be cooked. You do 5 loads of laundry and before you can turn around, number 6 is sitting on the floor waiting for you. Somebody always needs something. A SAHM is the ultimate multi-tasker.

White Dove, you really need to come to some kind of understanding with your H. My WH never did get it. He never seemed to complain much but he never pitched into help either. He wanted me to be a SAHM. I worked when our oldest was a baby and it was a nightmare. It was really best for our family when I stopped. In the end, while our children are great people, my staying home allowed WH to work more hours at his job than any human should. It allowed him to disconnect from us. He never understood that it should be a partnership. I think our life would be different if he had.

Now, as a working mom with only my DD but no H at home, I can see a part of his view. Going to a job every day is hard work. It's draining and when I get home I need to chill out. However, everything is still waiting to be done. I would love to have somebody to do it all with. Who will do it if not me?

Your problems will not be solved by putting your kids in daycare and working full time. That is, unless your H sees the light and will pitch in. It's more probable that you will just have 2 jobs, home and away.

I suggest that you find a few ways to escape occasionally. Find a playgroup for your kids. Take a class. Since my daughter was little, I've taken a weekly dance class. Everybody knows that it's a given that I go. I need to feed that part of myself. For each of my children, I took a "weaning" trip. After they were weaned, I traveled someplace...by myself...for a week. Everybody always appreciated me a lot more when I got home. It became a tradition that I would go somewhere for a week every year without my family. I came back refreshed. Most dads can hold it together for a few hours but after a week, the SAHM's value is quite apparent. It's amazing but if you ask a friend if you can come visit for a week, they will always say yes.

As I get ready to leave for work, I implore you to enjoy this time with your kids. I've always thought of my SAHM days as a golden interlude. I like working but I do miss being in my house during the day. Give those babies a big hug. It's really not yadda yadda about enjoying them while they are young.

Hi White Dove,

I hope you are doing well, aside from the issue you mentioned above.

Without a clear picture of what you would like, it will be difficult for your H to meet your expectations. Have you clearly defined for him the things he could do to help you?

I do understand how taxing being a SAHM can be. Housework is one of those things that people don't necessarily notice when you do it, they only notice when you DON'T do it. Raising children is not a job that comes with much recognition, although the rewards are immense.

When my children were very small, I stayed at home with them. I recall that it was often very lonely, with little adult interaction. It also seemed to lack immediate reward, as in so many other jobs you often see the results of your efforts much quicker. I know I don't have to tell you that your hard work will pay off. This time with your children is irreplaceable and can instill in them some very important family values - your values, as opposed to someone else's.

I suspect that you would feel less resentful if you saw just a little more emotional and/or domestic support from your H. If you clearly communicate to him how he can help you and he chooses not to, you can let go of any potential resentment by examining the situation and making a decision based on the facts and what you have to work with.

If he chooses not to help and that becomes the situation you are presented with, what do you decide?

If what you decide is to continue being a SAHM, it would become difficult to resent your H when the weight of your choice became your responsibility.

What I am basically trying to say is...ask for what you want, accept the answer and make a decision to do the best you can with what you have without assigning blame.

Have the two of you filled out any of the questionnaires? I highly recommend the workbook to His Needs/Her Needs - Five Steps to Restoring Romantic Love. It contains all of the questionnaires and even goes a little deeper in exploring each of the EN's and LB's and can aid the both of you in clearly defining for the other the ways you can be each others' source of greatest happiness.


How to Create Your Own Plan to Resolve Conflicts and Restore Love to Your Marriage

Best wishes, and hang in there!

Let me give you a little background about myself. I have a 15 yo daughter that I raised as a single parent from day one. No financial or emotional support from her father, although is was never "out" of the picture, his issues with drugs never allowed him to be the father that he could or wanted to be. With the support of both our families I was able to stay home with her until she was 2 and then she went to preschool/daycare. It was a great experience for her. She loved it so much that everyday she insisted on being the very last person to leave the school....anyway...

I have always worked and been a single parent up until little over a year ago. And let me tell you this, I can't think of not one job that is more demanding and "harder" than a SAHM. Work for a SAHM never, ever ends. ESPECIALLY if you have more than one child. I have been on both sides of the fence and I don't see this as being disrespectful. Tom, you sound like my H when you imply that it is an equal contribution, b/c it is not.

This is my dilemma, one is not more "important" than the other but, it is NOT equal. Can you make it equal? How do you compromise? Let me also say again that my H DOES help me with the kids, chores...etc, not as much as I would like for him to and that is b/c he feels that it's really my responsibility and if he helps at all it's just out of the goodness of his heart. Am I making sense?

Grapegirl, thank you so much for your words of wisdom. You are so right. Last year I joined a couple of play groups for my 2 yo and this month my H signed us up at the YMCA and a gym that is walking distance from our home. Both have childcare so that I can go during the day, which has been great. The one thing that I don't do and that is take a break every once in a while. Unfortunately since both of our families are in STL we have no real support system here and we haven't found a family that we really connected with to kid swap so that we could go out once in a while. And I think that it is taking its toll on me.

I miss working and getting out of the house everyday and not having to deal with children all day long. My 2 yo didn't do well w/ me working so after about 6 mos I came home. She will be 3 in Feb and I think that it is time for her to start going to preschool if not full-time at least a couple days a week.

OMG!! I would love to go away for a week! I'm just so afraid of everything falling to pieces. But in my heart I know that this might be the only way for me to get the understanding that I need from my H. And get this, he wants at least 2 more children lol.

Froz, it is always so good to hear from you. I finally feel like we are back on track. We are finally being a real family. The holidays were great compared to last year. My H has done everything and continues to do everything he can and anything that I ask to affair proof our M. Thank you Jesus! It is a total miracle, to see the complete change in him. I'm glad that I stayed. Can't say that it was worth it, until a couple of more years have gone by lol.

Back to my dilemma, if my H doesn't want to help with a particular thing, (doesn't have to be housework) it could be just paying the bills this month b/c I haven't gotten around to doing it. Then I don't have a problem with it. But when we get a late notice in the mail don't get all bent out of shape about it and point the finger at me as if I'm the one to blame.

Help!!

Please re-read the responses to your thread. They contained the answers you were looking for. Especially Arc and Camo's posts.

And I didn't imply anything. Only that perhaps more than one person may be taking the other one for granted. Unless of course you are above doing that.

WhiteDove, you have an attitude that appears very self-centered. I can't comment tonight, not that anything I say will be taken to heart. And I am afraid of being disrespectfully sarcastic.

Also, you state you were a single mom, you brought home the bacon, and fried it up in pan. Caring for both of your children (15yrs & 3yrs ) from previous relationships... No help from the other two fathers. But what I understand you are saying now is that being a SAHM is harder than being a Single Mom?



By being "New" to this, I am guessing you mean being a SAHM, because you have two other children from previous relationships. One who is 15 now. (Can your teen help you maybe?) Apparently the other two fathers didn't help you either.

So ... up until you married your current husband you worked, took care of a 13yr old and a 1 year old, and took care of the household all by your self. However - you now feel that being a single mom was actually easier than now when you are completely relieved of providing any financial support? Hmmmm?

Sometimes people think that whatever particular thing they are doing is the most important thing in the Universe. Everyone else has the easy work, while they do all the heavy lifting.


You have an EN that is not being filled by your H. I do not, from your postings, believe it has anything to do with domestic support. It has to do with your need for admiration. You want to be appreciated, and understood, because, as you stated,








You are so integrally important that you can't take a break because you Husband can't handle it. Everything would be messed up beyond belief. Running errands for a few hours away from home puts the entire WhiteDove household in jeapordy?





You've been on both sides of the fence? I thought you said this was NEW to you? The grass is always greener (I heard that somewhere) In addition WhiteDove, you missed the entire point. The disrespectfulness had nothing to do with the difficulty of the role of SAHM, the disrespectfullness to your H was you saying "ALL he has to do is go to work and bring home the money." Talk about being taken for granted. Especially by a woman who has supposedly been on both sides of the fence.




Can everyone see a pattern here.

Some people have differnt needs. The one you have is the most important to you.

WhiteDove I'll leave you something that my father taught me when I was a little tyke. He said, "Son, a job well done is its own reward" (I think he got that from some place else LOL) But it is a lesson he practiced and taught me.

Well I guess, I did have the time to write a response <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> And I didn't do to good with the sarcasm did I. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

All I'm saying is:
For Domestic Support use the Harley model and the POJA.

But more strongly I believe your husband needs to meet your needs for admiration WhiteDove. And there is no shame in having a need for admiration, no more than I'm ashamed of having the need of an attractive spouse.

WhiteDove I'm glad your here trying to get help for you husband and yourself. You deserve a pat on the back and I'm not to proud to give it to you:

WhiteDove you have the hardest job in the world, and your own particular circumstance probably makes it harder than any other similar jobs out there. And not only is yours the hardest of the hardest jobs, you are doing the best of the people doing the hardest of the hardest jobs. Well done.

Tom you made a good point. Maybe it really is about admiration rather than Domestic Support.

White_dove, I'm not familiar with your whole story, but I see your H is a FWH. What were the causes of the divorces in your previous marriages?

whitedove....

this is not really a role issue has much as a communication issue...

what I think and it is only my opinion based on a very narrow glimpse in to what is going on....

is that you and he are drawing lines in the sand..

building resentments

and both perpetuating a lot of negative feelings towards one another instead of working together further wideneing the gap...

so much good news about this though..

one is that you have a lot of control in setting the tone of the home...and more you create an environment in which both you and he want to be...the more you will come together...

to keep this family together you two must be a team...and if he isn't hearing your need for a team...then it is time to quit trying to communicate the same way...and change you and your approach...

you also need to break things down...to managable increments....
and prioritize..

the great news is that it is a new month and a new year and no better time to start change....

the bill issue is a big deal..it can have great effects on marital happiness and money issues are a greater cause of marital discontent and even divorce more than is ever discussed here....

so time to get your financial issues in order and figure out how to make it easier for you and him...

this is a great area to build team-menship on....

figure out what checks you can write out ahead so that all you have to do is pull an already filled out cable bill out of a file and stick it in a envelope...

figure out what bills you can and may want to pay on line or direct withdrawal....

go to the calender and circle a day in red that is bill night....and agree with your husband for him to give you a few hours and OR do it together after dinner on the same night each month....

also change your language to your husband...he's navy for Gods sake...show me any branch of the government that is NOT innudated with the theme of being a team...and appeal to that aspect of his value system..

tell him how much you love him
tell him how much closer you want to be....
and how you two need to work at being a team....

take down walls of resentment you have built up and approach this in a new way....

if your husband is being critical of what is not done..that is wrong...but do not lump it together address and deal with behavior each time it happens...

one response is to let it roll....
another one I use...is I tell on myself first...

I'll say to Mr. ARK...dang dear I was so busy doing this this this and that...that I never did get to that pile of laundry in the room...curses ....that makes me mad...

and you know what he says...

oh don't worry dear...I know you are busy....

I tell on myself....
(though mr ark isn't one to to tell me about the laundry in the first place....)

in a way it kind of validates his need for order by you identifying what is out of order.....and not just blowing it off...

how much time are you two spending dating at home...
making sure on a weekend night when free after the kids are in bed that you two are connecting and romancing...

how much are you taking on a super role of mom and how much of you are embracing the role of wife...

and I say all this to you I have been there...and in some ways am there still for even though I work part time it's twelve hour off shifts.....where I come home in am and still take care of kids all day.....
so I know it is hard...

but the most important thing is to build and nurture your and his relationship...so that the family thrives and stays intact....

but expecting your husband to understand what that is like may not be realistic...just like you can't understand what his job is like....and he probably doesnt' expect you to...

get your house organized with your husband so that things become easier...
work together on team goals...

give eachother praise...
be his soft place to fall...as he becomes yours...

turn towards him not away in some plan to leave him for a week to teach him a lesson....

change your approach...
or
keep building resentment...and you will be a single mom again with even more hardship...

and none of this means he doesn't need to step up to the plate...he does...
but what you have been doing to get him there is NOT working...so change your approach....
and your attitude...

have you read dr laura's the proper care and feeding of husbands...

you should..

ARK

What a wonderful post by Ark. Thank you.

Ark's writing is like poetry isn't it. When I read her posts I feel some of the rough edges getting worn off of me. LOL <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

After reading it I had to share another of my fathers lessons. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> When he'd see me trying to put a square peg in a round hole over and over again, he'd say: "If you always think like you always thought, You'll always get what you always got."

Later in life I heard it said a different way, "if you always do what you always did, you'll always get what you always got."

But I preferred my fathers version. Because it really starts with the new way of thinking.

Whitedove
I understand what you are saying. I am also a Navy wife of many years with four kiddos and a sahm. I think I hear you on several fronts. One thing to remember is the most important job as a wife and mother is to be a wife and mother. I believe our society has demeaned that roll and to a degree says that SAHM have no value. So sometimes we have to look at how we are feeling about something.

I also understand about your spouse being in the navy and being gone all the time. I have had to over the years work on my being resentful of my spouse being gone and knowing that while he is gone everything is on my shoulders while he is away and thinking the only thing he has to deal with is his job. We recently had a discussion about this and how guys in the civilian world have to deal with their job, family and all the other pressures all at the same time. Where it seems our guys get to leave for months and focus totally on their job and then get time off in port. The wife does not get that unless she makes it a priority.

I have learned some very hard lessons over the years. One of them I believe is I showed my spouse that I was to capable. So he came to believe I didn't really need him, Which was so far from the truth but because I could handle everything while he was gone he felt he wasn't needed when he came back. I also tended to put the kids ahead of him, which I told him some of that was do to the fact he was gone so much that during that time I did focus greatly on the kids because I was both father and mother. But when he came home I was suppose to flip and switch and put him first and then kids next. That would cause a huge disruption for the kids and they had a hard time with that also.

I was also and still am to some degree like you in that I did not like to leave the kids with my spouse for all the same reasons you said and too I felt he didn't watch them closely enough. What that tells your spouse is you don't trust him with one of your most precious gifts. After years and years I realize I was demeaning my spouse and sending him a signal that he was less to me because of that. If you leave your kids with your husband on several occasions what is the worst thing that could happen? Yes the kids will cry, they cry with us too, yes there may be chaos, yes it will take some time getting used to. However if safety is not an issue it will give you husband a great feeling knowing you trust him to handle anything that comes his way and may give the kids and him bonding. Yes he may not do it our way and he may sit the kids in front of the tv on mulitple occasions however after several times he may become very good at it if he knows you believe in him. It will take time and it will take practice but in the long run you will all benefit from this.

Set up chores for your other kids. I also fought this one with my spouse. Not sure why other than I thought I was a SAHM I should be doing it all. However it is teaching my daughters to be responsible. Have them take the clothes out of the dryer and find their own clothes and put them up. Give them things to do, you will get a lot of grief from it but I have found that just having them do some of those things frees me up to do other things.

Also while you spouse is home have him take over the bills. Took me years to do this but when he is home my spouse does the bills no negotiating and sometimes he hasn't done the best job but he has learned. Then I feel refreshed with a different perspective when he leaves and I have to take over. If you are Christian go through and find the spouses responsibility as a husband. Find Mortarmans post on it and discuss it, pray about it.

Praise your husband on the work he is doing. I used to complain because mine was never home and he found someone who appreciated him, listened to what he did at work, because I was not feeling that need for him I was to focused on what I wasn't getting. Start focusing on him and I know its very hard to do but then stand back and watch what happens.

I do understand where you are coming from.

Sorry that it has taken me so long to respond (for obvious reasons, kids, chores, errands I don’t have much free time on the computer).

As I was reading over some of the post to this topic, I don’t think I am effectively getting my point across. It is very hard to write out everything that is going on in my M regarding this issue. Especially when I only have a few minutes to post something at a time, but I will try to go back to the beginning and hopefully clear some things up.

Neither my H nor I are perfect, but we strive everyday to be better people and have a thriving happy M, which for the most part we are VERY successful. We are older with many experiences under our belt. However, we are exploring new territory for both of us. Having children (step-children) and being a SAHM. We both believe that communication is a high priority in our M; not a problem there, but….

How do you balance the roles of H/W when one person works outside of the home and the other says at home with the children? I’m looking for a guideline, a model couple who has successfully balanced the chores, kids etc. What works for them? How can we change it to work for us? Or even those who have gone through the experience and can say, if I could have done it all over again I would have done this… When I look at the people I know where the H worked and W stayed home, there wasn’t a good balance. I’d hear the typical complaints, he doesn’t spend enough time with the kids, she’s always nagging. And most always they stayed together miserable or they ended up D.

Please forgive me if I was misleading in my earlier complaints, for example about getting a glass of water. I was probably having a bad day and that was the last straw. In some ways it does all tie in together. I don’t want to make my H out to seem like a horrible H, b/c he is far from that. He is understanding, caring, loving, and helpful. He loves being at home. We are each other’s best friend. There is nothing that he wouldn’t do if I asked and it goes the same with me. If we make mistakes we learn from them and move on.

Ark you have so much wisdom and experience from life lessons. I’m sure there is much that I could/can learn from you….thank you!

”… building resentments…” honestly I can only speak for myself on this one. Right now there is too many good things in our M, the resentment is a very little and subtle thing that if not address could lead to a bigger problem. I will talk to my H about this. I’m curious to know if he has any resentments regarding how I’m handling my responsibilities as a SAHM and wife.

On the bill issue, I love to do the bills and manage our money. My H loves my meticulousness and attention to every detail. Even though, he is very capable of doing just as a good job, we both rather that I do it. But see this is the problem. Hypothetically, if he feels my role as a SAHM is to always take care of the children, then when I need him to watch the children for a couple of hours so that I can work on our finances, then won’t he feel resentment?

“but expecting your husband to understand what that is like may not be realistic...just like you can't understand what his job is like....and he probably doesnt' expect you to...”

Very good point. I let it go and take his word for it that his job isn’t easy. I don’t say that I can do his job “hands down, no problem”, like he has said about being a SAHM.

“get your house organized with your husband so that things become easier...
work together on team goals...” Amen! This says it all. I just don’t know where to start, or how to organize it.

By the way… what is POJA?

Tom,

Yes you sounded VERY disrectfully sarcastic in your reply. I’m not sure if you are trying to help or hurt. I will assume the best and thank you for your attempt to help.

Capt,

Not sure how to answer your question. FWH means Former Wayward Husband, right? We are still married. Maybe you can click on my name to get some background info as to what bought me to MB in the first place. You probably will find the answer to your question there. I haven’t done a lot of posting so it shouldn’t be too tedious.

BJS,
Thank you soooo much for responding. You hit it on the money. I’m going to discuss this post with my H. Hopefully we can learn from your mistakes and get on the right path to “organizing” (as ARK put it) our home. Right now I don’t have a lot of resentment about my H being gone and b/c before we got married I was use to taking care of everything on my own. Honestly, for me the since I don’t have to work and my H gives me full control of our money that it sort of balances itself out for me. In otherwords, I’m ok with handling everything while he is gone, since I don’t have to worry about the financial side of things.

Where it seems our guys get to leave for months and focus totally on their job and then get time off in port. The wife does not get that unless she makes it a priority YES, this is what I’m talking about. Even when he isn’t gone on a 6mos deployment and it’s just 1 wk. I don’t and now that I think about it. My H makes me feel guilty, not intentionally, about wanting to get away by myself. He can understand being away from the children, but not him.

We both have done pretty good with prioritizing in our family. God, spouse, children…(let me add for those who will take what I’m saying out of context…with everything there is a balance, for example, when I fix our dinner plates I always fix the youngest plate first, sometimes I even sit down and feed her. My H can fix his own plate and feed himself).

After years and years I realize I was demeaning my spouse and sending him a signal that he was less to me because of that. If you leave your kids with your husband on several occasions what is the worst thing that could happen?

Great advice!!!! I will start immediately letting go more. I do trust him and with pratice comes perfection.

Set up chores for your other kids. I also fought this one with my spouse. Not sure why other than I thought I was a SAHM I should be doing it all. However it is teaching my daughters to be responsible. Have them take the clothes out of the dryer and find their own clothes and put them up. Give them things to do, you will get a lot of grief from it but I have found that just having them do some of those things frees me up to do other things.

I could write a book on this one. For many, many different reasons I majorily contributed to my D(15) irresponsibility. On one hand we are both paying the price now, and the other we are making up for lost time in this area. So with the 2 yo I’m am doing things totally different.

Something that my H does that we don’t see eye to eye on and that is how much responsibility should we give the 15 yo, especially when it comes to taking care of the little ones. In one of the earlier post someone else bought this issue up. Our 15 yo NEVER like kids, she never wanted to babysit, she has always said since I could remember that she never wanted children. She was an only child for many yrs which probably contributed to her attitude. So to spend 5 minutes playing with the 2 yo or taking her to the park to play, is more like a chore to her or as she puts it punishment. My H has to remember that the little ones are our children not hers.

I want to comment more on this but I will have to do it later. Thanks.

Not going to comment anymore about your "predicament." You have recieved excellent advice here. But you don't seem to want to accept it. From Arc to Camo to Grapegirl and Frozen, all of them gave great insight and active advice. You seem to keep wanting to restate your concern trying to get a different answer.

Now about your 15y/o daughter. I have to disagree. She is going to have a hard time learning strong family principals if you are not asking her to do things because, "she don't like it" or because, she was an only child and doesn't want to play with her step sisters. Not wanting to be a baby sitter is one thing, but being a big sister is not the same thing.

Also saying that the little ones are not her responsiblity .... I think all children have a responsiblity to the family commisurate to their age and abilities. Each child participates in the benefits of being a part of your family, when they can contribute they should. That quite frankly is what makes a family. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

There are other things she can do besides watch the babies. She can clean, she can help cook, she can collect laundry and fold her own clothes.

I'm sure she is wanting allowance, and learning to drive, and cool clothes. The family provides that and she should contribute.

I am glad you are straightening that out with her, she will be a better person for it.



This is a bit out there, but if the little ones are not her responsiblity because they are only step sisters, does that mean you H has no responsiblity to your other 2 children?

You are all one family now. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

White dove,

I'm glad to hear you sounding upbeat and positive. I am equally as impressed with the way you have chosen to address Tom's post. I sometimes have difficulty with taking some things very personal, so I admire your methods.

POJA is The Policy of Joint Agreement. It is the meat of Marriage Builder's principles, so if you haven't heard the term, it would probably be extremely beneficial in aiding your H and yourself in coming to a resolution on a system regarding domestic support, not to mention in almost every other aspect of your marriage.

The Policy of Joint Agreement states:
Never do anything without an enthusiastic agreement
between you and your spouse...

Here is a link for additional reading...

POJA

POJA is about negotiating. When Patriot and I first read it, we actually thought we were practicing it. I guess we had the idea that it was more about boundaries and the things you COULDN'T do.

It actually took us a few months, and we felt kind of silly for having thought we knew so much. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

Now that we understand the concept a little better, we use it for just about EVERYTHING from what we are going to have for dinner or what order we run our errands in to bigger issues, such as career changes, major purchases, etc...
The process of negotiating has become almost like a game for us and it really enables decision making to be more fun, instead of something heavy, dreaded and stressful.

Example

Froz: Patriot, what are your plans for the evening?

Patriot: I was hoping to spend some time playing online games and also maybe do some studying. Was there something you had in mind?

Froz: I actually thought it might be nice if we could watch a movie.

Patriot: Well, would it be acceptable to you if I spent the next hour studying and save the online gaming for tomorrow evening when you are working late?

Froz: That sounds great, because I could actually use the next hour to go to the grocery store. I could get some ice cream while I am there and I don't even mind letting you pick the movie. I don't care what we watch at all, I just wanted an activity that was something we could do together that was also relaxing.

Patriot: Ice cream sounds wonderful. Is Chunky Monkey okay with you (uh-oh, another POJA in the works)?

That's kind of a dorky example, but you get the picture. Often, the more creative you can be with your negotiations, the more fun it is.

When we were negotiating our plans for New Year's Eve were, we discovered what we both really wanted was to stay at home and do something together.

We often have the burden of indecisiveness as an obstacle, and the concern that the other person is making a sacrifice.

Once we agreed on having appetizers and playing games together, we had all day to come up with a list - each person had to list their 5 top appetizer choices, and their 5 top game choices.

At the end of the day, we actually had a draft pick. I was excited about doing the draft pick all day long and I was very interested to see which things he picked and if we had picked any of the same things and we really had fun with it. It also sure beat the heck out of our usual method of

"What do you want to eat?"
"I don't know - what do YOU want to eat"
and back and forth and back and forth...

As far as division of household and children responsibilities and systems that are efficient, we've never really had an issue with that (because I do it all <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />).

Patriot works more hours than I do and attends school. I have an extremely flexible work schedule, so I don't mind being responsible for most of the work (except what I call the Man Jobs, like taking out the trash or anything that involves a ladder or tools).

In exchange for these services, he is extremely willing to help whenever I ask for it. He will help me fold laundry. He always does any cleaning that involves strong chemicals because I am asthmatic.

I try to do things for him that would involve time, like running errands, as he doesn't have near as much free time as I do, so that he can enjoy his free time.

He tries to do things that make my life easier, like putting gas in my car (because I hate to do it).

One day recently, he even came up to my salon when he was off for the day and I was extremely busy. He folded towels, refilled shampoo bottles and other tasks so I wouldn't get behind and could work on my clients.

Once you get a routine established, households run much smoother, and of course, what works for one family may not work for another but I'm sure, through creative negotiation, you could arrive at a system that works well for you both.

Who knows, maybe a draft pick for household chores would speak to his masculinity...

Thank you Froz, Point taken <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

Tom,

I'm sorry I wasn't more clear with my meaning. I wasn't making a point, where you were concerned.

By the comment I made that mentioned your name, I meant only that I admired the way White Dove chose to view a situation where SHE could have chosen to view it negatively.

I, personally, have a tendency to sometimes view comments made by others as personal attacks, when perhaps the only intent of the person is to be helpful by pointing out elements to my situation that might have escaped me.

I was simply conveying to White Dove that she set a positive example for me.

I'm truly sorry for the misunderstanding and hope you'll accept my apology for not being more clear.

No apology needed from you Frozen, I admire you. Wish you would have talked to my STBX, I asked her to come on here last year and recommended you.

I don't have the smooth edges you ladies do.

Tom,

I must say I am more than a little shocked to read your statement above. I would be glad to talk to your STBX, when and if she is willing, although I truly have no idea why you would recommend ME or what the source of your admiration could possibly be, although it is unbelievably nice of you to say that. I am a far, far step behind most of the ladies here, with reference to Recovery.

Frozen you came on MB right around when my STBX said she wanted to reconcile, and agreed to the conditions. (she quickly regressed) But I'm sure I sent her some links to your posts, and asked her to come on here for support. She got her support someplace else though.

She has an account here, but she won't post because she wants to be right all the time. If you tell her she's great, that you'll support her no matter what foolish thing she wants, then you are her best friend.

Anyway done with the thread Jack.

Frozen,

Thank you so much for the reply. It helps a WHOLE lot. Especially giving me the example of how you and Patriot use the POJA. Yes I have read through all of Dr. Harvey's information at some pt since discovering MB. But I didn't know abbrev.

Yes I remember thinking the same thing that my H and I are practicing the POJA, but it looks like we have a lot to learn. Thank you again.

On a side note...even though I haven't had a lot of time to keep up with your recovery but from your reply it seems like you and Patriot are doing great. I'm sooooo very happy b/c as you know I been on the side lines cheering you guys on. Keep up the good work!