1) Have you ever been tempted to cheat on your spouse and if so, why?


2) Did you give in or did you pass on it and why?


3) In your opinion, should you reveal the fact that you were tempted to cheat your spouse-Why or why not?

Duh.

As one of the many FWS's (former wandering spouses) on this board I would say the answer to the first two questions was rather obvious.

And the answer to number 3 is YES OF COURSE. The reason, to let your spouse know that their life is not what they think it is and to let them make informed decisions about their own future.

Oh, edited to add I've just read your question. The answer is still yes. The heartache that could be prevented....

You really don't get this board do you?

1) Have I ever been tempted? Sexually tempted? No. Emotionally? I guess you could say yes, since there have been many "dry spells" befalling my Love Bank over the years, but I can't recall a single person in particular who would have been a target of said "temptation".

2) Again, never any one person in particular, I guess I kept my personal boundaries strong enough to avoid noticing any temptation.

3) Should temptation be revealed? By all means, YES. If my H had revealed the fact that he was tempted to cheat, we'd have been able to save ourselves a whole lot of heartache. I could have handled "I've got to be honest with you, I'm having a hard time fighting this" a LOT easier than I could handle "I've been unfaithful to you."

Isn't that what Radical Honesty is all about? If a spouse can't be your most trusted friend, your marriage is already in a sad state of disrepair.

I am an FWS, but in thinking about how I got here, I wasn't really tempted by a person and then I conducted an affair. I was tempted by free sex. OW was quite unremarkable, actually. It's all cheap and degrading for both myself and my wife, but it did happen and I did do it. I think people are tempted all the time to cheat(be with someone else... grass is greener.. whatever)... but it is what we as human beings DO in the face of temptation that tells about us. I wonder why you ask the question... It kind of feels like an ice breaker to justify your own affair. Is that true? Maybe it isn't. You can tell the truth because no one here can find you anyway.


In my situation that made me a wayward, I obviously gave in. It is a weak person that does what I did. I was a weak person. Honestly, I am a weak person now, but I am wiser. It is the wise man that realizes he has weakness and prepares by protecting those weaknesses with honorable and righteous actions.



The correct answer is of course yes. Always tell the truth. The reason is because your marriage can only be the closest it can be when you fully share yourself with your mate. And that means everything. Your day at work, the stresses in your life.... and so on. The real answer, even for me, however is that we filter information before we pass it on... and no one wants to tell their spouse that they are attracted to another person if even for just a moment. Maybe people actually do want to tell that, and I am having a difficult time trying to do something that I find illogical. The point is, the truth is always the way to get closer to your spouse. Saying you are attracted to someone else and telling before doing something you will regret is much better than not telling and doing something you regret. This much, I know.

I will add that being a FWS is the most difficult thing I have ever had to face in my life. The hurt and pain I have caused. The fact that I do love my wife and I did this to her. It would have been better to tell her I didn't want her, if that was the case, than to not tell her thinking I was "protecting" her. Even if it ends the relationship, betrayal is a easy wrong here. The hard right is to be honest.

I wonder, why are you asking these questions? Are you planning something? Do you have an agenda? Simple curiousity. you are not obligated to answer, but it would be nice if you did, honestly.

take care

P.S. I am military as well.

[quote]1) Have you ever been tempted to cheat on your spouse and if so, why?

Well, if you mean did I ever meet somebody and start wanting to be with him, my answer is "No." Perhaps, it's because I've always been careful about interacting with other men.

That being said, I DID consider going out and finding someone. I even looked around to see if anyone was "suitable" for cheating with. Why? Because my H showed no remorse for his cheating, and I wanted someone to act as if he thought I was beautiful, smart, and fun to be with. Also, my H is the only man I've ever been with, and while he was in his one-sided EA at the time, he wasn't interested in me AT ALL! Also, I was in the beginning of rebelling against his verbal and emotional abuse that had taken their toll over the years.

Edited to add: On a couple of occasions, a couple of my H's "friends" showed up at my house when they KNEW my H was away for the night. I didn't let them in the house. One showed up to pick up something my H had forgotten, but wanted to "stay a while and get to know me better". <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> Well, I had never liked him and didn't want to get to know him better. His asking me just confirmed my opinion of him. Another just showed up out of the blue and flat out asked me to fool around. And, yes, I told my H about it, but it didn't seem to bother him.

2) Did you give in or did you pass on it and why?

Well, I struck up a few conversations, but could never get myself past the pleasantries and small chit chat. I felt AWFUL, so I would just say, "Nice talking with you!" and go talk to some women friends. After a while, I realized that I didn't want to be an adultress. I had standards, and I didn't want to lower them for anybody. I realized that I wouldn't be hurting my husband as much as I would be hurting myself. Actually, I didn't think my husband would have been all that hurt, because I certainly didn't believe he loved me, at that time, anyway. His PRIDE might have been hurt, though.


3) In your opinion, should you reveal the fact that you were tempted to cheat your spouse-Why or why not?

I did tell my H that I wanted to cheat. I told him that I considered that our marriage ended the night he had his ONS, so I was no longer bound by any vows. (I was pretty good at the foggy talk, myself!) I told him that I was entitled to find someone who WANTED to make love to me.

His response? "Well, I can understand how you're feeling. You haven't had any experience except with me, so if you want to go find out what sex with somebody else is like, it'll be O.K." Well, that was definitely the WRONG answer!

That was about 7 years ago. NOW, I think he may be starting to worry a little. I've lost weight, bought a few sexy outfits, and given myself a makeover. I've also distanced myself from him, because it's time that HE put some effort into this marriage. The verbal abuse has come ALMOST to a halt, but still flares up from time to time when he gets angry. He still has control issues, but I am standing up to him on some really important things. He no longer treats me as though he hates me; actually, he says he loves me. However, he has flat out told me "NO" to almost every need I've expressed to him, because he says he's not gonna kiss my butt. Well, I don't want him to necessarily kiss my butt, but it'd be nice if he was WILLING to do so, KWIM?

I'm still not interested in any other men, and I'm not sure I ever will be interested in anyone else if we end up divorcing. I figure that just about any man would come with his own set of issues, just like I have my own issues. I often think of how nice it could be to live alone, with my home arranged to suit ME, the freedom to pursue my own interests (which are many) without hindrance. If I were to marry another man, let's face it; I might end up with yet another guy who leaves his dirty clothes in the floor, makes messes, and is gassier than my H. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

Even worse, I might end up with someone who is physically, as well as emotionally, abusive. Then, I would probably end up bashing him over the head with my iron skillet! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> And, then would have to start the process of getting another divorce. No, thank you! It's taken me too long to get the strength I have today, and I'm not giving up any of it!

I told my H for two reasons: 1) Because it was the right thing to do., and 2) Because I was angry with him and wanted him to know that he wasn't the only one whose needs weren't being met. No. 2 is definitely the wrong reason. Bottom line: No one needs to be hurt by betrayal from the one person who is supposed to love him/her so much, even if "no one" has already hurt you.

LadyC, I kinda hoped only FWS's would respond which would shoot this little discussion right out of the water.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I have no idea what "data" is being collected here. Maybe CS can enlighten us. *rolleyes*

During my marriage I was presented with plenty of opportunities to cheat. I never wanted to. None of the men measured up to my husband, or were worth risking my family for.

I was always honest with my XH about these men. One of them, during a party at our home, came into my sleeping daughter's bedroom (I was checking on her) and kissed me. Even though I didn't reciprocate, I told my XH about it the next day (when the guy was far away!).

This was something that really bothered me when he left me for the OW. I said "When I think of all the chances I had to cheat on you, and didn't!" He just shrugged and said "I know". My fidelity meant very little to him.

Obviously, everyone looks at people of the opposite sex sometimes and wonders what it would be like to be with them. Personally, I don't think this constitutes real temptation, and I certainly don't think it necessary to inform one's spouse about every single incident.

Alph.

1) Have you ever been tempted to cheat on your spouse
Yes, both emotionally and physically. This only happened once in my life (with the OM). I never experienced any other emotional and/or physical temptation or attraction outside my M before.

and if so, why?
Because - during my 3 year long e-mail correspondence with OM – I have (to use the words of Shirley Glass) unwittingly formed a deep, passionate connection with OM before I’ve realized that I’ve crossed the line from platonic friendship into romantic love. These romantic and "in love" feelings for OM (and my strong emotionally attachment and attraction to him) were the driving force behind the temptation to cheat on my H.

2) Did you give in or did you pass on it
I did give in emotionally but not physically. However, I started to act on the physical temptation by committing “mental” adultery e.g. wrong and sinful thoughts and fantasies about OM. Like Send me on my way I did not know what an EA was until I began seeking help on this site.

and why?
The reason I gave in emotionally is because of the emotional connection I formed with OM and the intense romantic feelings I developed towards him. I experienced enormous guilt over my emotional betrayal and “mental” adultery - especially after I've discovered this site and realized I was involved in an EA.

The reason I didn’t give in physically was because it would go against everything I care for and believe in e.g. my morals; value system; religious beliefs; integrity; my love and commitment towards God and my H etc. etc. IMO physical betrayal (in whatever form whether it would be kissing & embracing or sexual intercourse) would be the final and ultimate betrayal towards my H and OM's W and I knew I wouldn’t be able to live with the guilt, self-reproach, pain of my H & other consequences which would result from any form of physical betrayal.

3) In your opinion, should you reveal the fact that you were tempted to cheat your spouse-
Yes, definitely.

Why or why not?
Because honesty & openness in a M is one of the key elements to help affair-proof a M and keep temptation at arm’s length. Honesty is the trump card for preventing affairs. Making a commitment sharing your attractions and temptations with your spouse will help you to avoid acting on them.

If I have shared my attraction and temptation to my H in the first place (after I have became aware of it), things wouldn't have gone so far and probably my addiction/attachment to OM could be stopped before it became so intense and gotten out of hand. It’s true that once you are past a certain point of emotional connection, it is very hard to go into reverse…and if I was honest with my H from the very beginning, things could have been prevented from reaching this specific point of emotional connection with OM.

Just remember that temptation itself is not a sin. It is not a sin to be tempted or experience attraction towards someone else. Temptation or attraction only becomes a sin when you give in to it e.g. when you start to act on the temptation/attraction emotionally/physically or in your mind. Martin Luther said, “You cannot keep birds from flying over your head but you can keep them from building a nest in your hair.” You can’t keep the Devil from suggesting thoughts, but you can choose not to dwell or act on them.

For more info read this thread:

Growing through & defeating temptation

1) Have you ever been tempted to cheat on your spouse and if so, why?
Oh yeah, all the time. My wife is abusive to me, physically and emotionally.


2) Did you give in or did you pass on it and why?
Gimme a chance to find out and I'll let you know cause I'll do it with zero guilt.



3) In your opinion, should you reveal the fact that you were tempted to cheat your spouse-Why or why not?
I tell her all the time and she says to go find me a girlfriend.

Not since I was running for President.

Jimmy Carter

HEY! I thought WAT was Dubya! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

What exactly is the point of this thread?

What does the original poster hope to learn from the responses?

If someone were trawling this site for vulnerable people to exploit, how would they locate and engage them? (This is not to implicate CinnamonSugar, just to ask posters to think before they post.)

1) Yes.

2) Yes. This was a large source of resentment after my FWH had his A. I could have cheated and didn't, even though he was doing nothing to meet my EN's at the time. I have always been faithful, and he was not.

3) Yes. It protects you from the temptation by keeping no secrets, and makes your spouse aware that there are needs they are not meeting well. In almost every case, if an almost-WS had done this, there would have been no affair.

Jen, with all due respect, I would expect to see all those who had been tempted answering this question. Of course the WS's have been tempted, but it is interesting to me how many of the BS's have been temtped, too, and yet decided not to go through with it....even though they could have.

1) Have you ever been tempted to cheat on your spouse and if so, why?

YES. About 10 days after D-day.

Why? .... It is difficult for me to recall, it was so long ago. More than 10 years. I think I wanted to blunt my emotions.


2) Did you give in or did you pass on it and why?

I never got there. God stopped me! A huge storm came up, and it was dangerous to drive. I am so fortunate in that regard.


3) In your opinion, should you reveal the fact that you were tempted to cheat your spouse-Why or why not?

Do you mean reveal to my husband?

Yes, I think it is important.

I did tell him.

He was shocked <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

LOL

I have made it a point to not place myself in vulnerable situations, so the 1st 2 answers are no.

I do not allow myself to ride alone with men, to go out to eat with other men, to talk about personal issues with other men, have "friendships" with other men, etc. I believe in being pro-active in affair proofing my M.

After my H's EA, he took on the same "rules", and we are both happy with them.

To the 3rd answer-
YES!! That is the best way to put out the fire.


I kinda had the same experience after my H's EA. I thought really hard about contacting one of my EX's. I didn't want to for me- I just wanted H to see how much it hurt, because he always acted like his EA was "no big deal" since their was no PA. I am so thankful I didn't.

No, I say 20 feet from temptations at all times. If anything starts to seem a little 'off', I go to 50 feet. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> I behave EXACTLY the way I'd want/expect my H to behave.

That said, at the end of my first marriage (after I had decided that I was probably going to have to D) I was working with a nice man, and he got me thinking... I started to want to have a real relationship with someone other than my H. NOT this guy, but someone. He kinda lit the fuse with me.

I wasnt tempted to have an A, with him or anyone, but I was inspired to get a D. And I did. I never dated that man. I was never alone with that man, and I didnt fantasize about him. But I fantasized about getting OUT of my marriage. He kinda reminded me that life didnt have to suck! H was miserable, and made our M miserable. I decided to leave miserable.

And no, I never told exH about him. He was abusive and getting worse, I had to make a clean, quick break. I DEFINITELY recommend telling IF you are staying in the marriage - Dru

LadyC, my comments about this thread were based on reading previous posts from CS.

She is under the misapprehension that this is a board filled with groupthink and only for BSs.

I just wanted to make a point.

Any faithful spouse who says they've never been tempted is lying.

Period.

....or they're not human. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

That said, there are degress of temptation, IMHO.

WAT

WAT, for the first 28 years of marriage I was never tempted or even approached inappropriately by a man.

You mean it isn't? :P

What do you think would happen if someone gave the "wrong" answers to any of these questions?

This is almost like going to dailykos and asking who voted for W last time.

Well, my 1st M was 6 years long, now married 6 (and counting) to current H. I never once had the desire/urge to cheat. I get approached, so it's been on the table a few times, but I was never tempted. Same when I was dating other men. I end a relationship before I start a new one. I have a VERY consistant history of this <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> - Dru

Jen, Dru - I don't believe you never looked at another man and didn't think, hmmmmmmm.........

As I said, there are degrees of temptation.

JMHO

WAT

Never thought, hmmmmm... Maybe thought he's a nice guy. But never thought, hmmmmm... There are very few men like Rob. He's so cool - most men aren't cool. He's so knowledeable about everything and widely read and quirky. He bought a model skeleton the other day to put on the bookshelf. I said I bet most middle aged people don't have skeletons on their bookshelves. But that's what is so cool about him - he's so different from most men.

I have such a prickly exterior when it comes to men. I always have. I didn't have brothers and went to an all girl school all my life. I've never "got" men so I just put up barriers. When I see my DD, who has a brother obviously, interact with guys - friendly and approachable but not flirtatious - I envy her.

1) Have you ever been tempted to cheat on your spouse and if so, why?

Yes, why...because my wife was not meeting most of my EN's (and vice verse).

2) Did you give in or did you pass on it and why?

I passed on a PA for a couple of reasons the main one being my OW would not meet me for our planned weekend because she had gained weight. When she finally said to meet her I said no, I could not do it..

I did have an EA with this person for quite some time (3 years). I did not know what an EA was until I began seeking help on this site.

3) In your opinion, should you reveal the fact that you were tempted to cheat your spouse-Why or why not?

My FWxW (now FWW) knew shortly after I found this site and honesty , openness and full disclosure became a must for us to move forward....


This all happened after she had a PA, started a separate EA, and asked me for a D. I was shocked because I had made efforts to get things better and I thought it worked except for her moodiness (which was result of her PA)....it was not great then but it only got worse....


How does this help you???

Well, noticing that someone is cute is a FAR cry from wanting to sleep with them. Far, far, far, far cry. Sure, I've noticed that there are other cute/nice men besides my H. But never once was I slightly tempted to even have drinks with them, much less SF. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

That's not a degree of temptation, that's just having eyes. And I would not consider it temptation that my H noticed that other women walked the earth, either. Really. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" /> - Dru

It is my belief that temptation alone does not an affair make...Temptation must be mixed with the right combination of what's going on in your life/marriage, and opportunity for unfaithfulness to occur...The "@#$?right?$#@" jumping off place, so to speak...

Also, there are many tiny choices made along the slippery slope of adultery that lead up to the BIG choice. It is because of the tiny choices (movement of boundaries), that the big choice doesn't actually seem so big, which is why you hear many WSs say, "It just happened"...Until further examination in recovery, that is how it seems...

Mrs. W

Jen, Dru - fair enough.

Being a guy, I can't put myself in a woman's shoes - well, I could, but that's another discussion! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I can't imagine a guy who hasn't looked at an attractive or otherwise sexy woman and hasn't thought hmmmmmmm........

I think it's human (guy) nature.

This does not include taking the first step to planning an infidelity. Just the basic temptation starting point.

WAT

Wow Mrs W. You don't sound like such a dumb blonde bimbo when you say insightful stuff like that. LOL. Very true MrsW.

Alright Big Kangaroona...Click HERE! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Mrs. W <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Yes I was. In bahamas. AFter finding out and having d day with darth. Our last trip.

Met a guy when darth was playing in blackjack tourney. He sat down beside me. Was cute, owned huge yacht...had been watching me. He told me my H was checking out OW. I said it was none of his business.

He told me I needed a kind of man who would adore me, treat me right, and that I didn't need a liar. He could see that in my H, who was several hundred yards away in same area as me...that's how bad darth became in the end.

sent expensive bottle of wine to my and darth's suite. I thought darth had sent it to ME! then I saw card, it said "friend".

I was and always remained faithful to darth.

didn't do it as it is Not in my blood to be that way. Not something I wanted to do.

tempted? yea! He was cute, successful and could have been my "marriage escape plan man". but no. I would not do such a thing,

after maybe 15 min. talking to the guy, I walked away.

Do I regret walking away?

Heck no.

It is who I am.

Plus any guy who hits on a married woman AND KNOWS SHE'S MARRIED...is a creep in my book.

I think as a woman, you have to be placed in a very vulernable position to want to cheat.

I was. I was raw and unsure of my M and just had a d day. Horrible times actually. And here comes this smooth talker promising me the moon and stars and even telling me my H is in same area checking out other women in front of me.

That really enhanced the vulernability.

But I didn't do a thing about it. Darth stayed at that darn table for hours! I could have had my fun. But didn't.

That was the most lonely trip of my life. I remember after that, I went strolling out to the aquarium in the hotel by myself...then out to bridge near/overlooking the beach. Lots of people were out there. I just walked by myself. I felt more lonely than anybody in the world that night. And I was there on a trip staying in a suite at a killer resort with my H. Should have been a romatic or fun trip where we had quality time and some fun. Instead I had the heaviest heart of any woman you could have ever known.

I was ripe for an affair...just that I'd already been on the receiving end, knew it didn't solve a damn thing to have an affair of my own, plus I never have cheated on anybody I've ever been with. That's why I didn't.

But i can see how a woman could though.

ROFLMAO!!! Oh, MrW...what a priceless, exquisite partner you have in your dear wife...

I admit it...I clicked BigK's link...

LOL!

Thank you, MrsW...

LA

Wow-that's quite a story...Thanks for sharing it.

I have heard people say that they cheated or looked for someone to cheat with for "revenge" on a cheating spouse...


Question: Where do you see your marriage in 5 years?

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Glad You Liked It LA! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Gotta keep that "silly furriner", Kangaroona, in line you know! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Mrs. W <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Damn-that's ironic...it a crappy way.

Hmm. You should check out the centre for the easily amused Mrs W

If you disilke me so much, why are you in this thread?

Um...I thought this was the GENERAL DISCUSSION II board...Plus, it would appear (judging by the responses) that not everyone here shares your sentiments...

He we go again...



The point that I see being made is that folks on this site can be petty as h#ll...

I agree-LOL!

But I would temper that statement with this: It's all about degrees...

If "being tempted" means actually being attracted (drawn to) to someone who is not my husband, then I would say Nope-Not I.

But if "being tempted" means thinking a man is attractive, then I am guilty quite often.

My point is that I can see a man and see that he is attractive without being attracted TO him.

CS - I think you should look in the mirror - you are being pretty petty too wouldn't you say? If you don't like Kiwi, just ignore her.

You speak the truth-LOL! And I ought to know-I have experienced the "wrath" firsthand...

A very important point:

I have no feelings for this person either way. He / she came into the thread to actually CONTINUE a cyberfight...

And-make no mistake-the fact that the rest of you are in here is creepy too; however, since I haev not yet experienced any direct hostility int he thread, I am continuing to discuss my topic as if nothing ever happened.

And yet no one has jumped all over Pariah.

Curious.

Well CS, if you aren't hostile, I doubt anyone else will be.

Actually I hope eventually we find out why you are really here and can help you.

*****EDIT*************
So, every thread I start or post in -I can count on your collective company?

WOW. Did I ever press your buttons!!!

LOL!


Can we be adults and get back on topic now?



I think a peek into the dynamics of how a person ends up cheating is interesting and personally useful.

I have only been married for a few years & I would like to gain a little insight on this...

are you tempted to cheat?

Is that what all this is about?

Just wondering

Nope... I see handsome men but nothing of any interest. I am already married after all...

I agree with another poster who said the leap from "looking" to cheating usually happens under the "right" circumstances. And it usually involves little compromises all along the way.

Well, gee whiz, CS!! If we didn't post to you, you'd be talking to yourself! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

MrsWonderings, this is SO true. Actually your words has reminded me of this excellent thread again – especially the following paragraph from that thread:

”How does adultery "happen?" People don't just decide one day to hop in bed and be unfaithful to their spouse. Adultery is the culminating act of a dozen or more tiny steps of unfaithfulness. Each step in itself does not seem that serious or much beyond the previous step. Satan draws a person into adultery one tiny step at a time. And he does this over time so that our conscience is gradually seared. This makes it easier to take "just one more step" thinking such a tiny step won't hurt us.”

Cinnamon, this isn't "Plumeria 101".
People here are HURTING.
The pain one experiences regarding affairs is horrible.
It's not something you give an interview about, not when you're in the middle of it anyway.
Some have experienced this hurting in the past, got over it, and stick around to help others get through it.
You, or any other poster for that matter, will stick out like a sore thumb when you're just asking "general" questions out of interest, looking for info-tainement.

Would you ever consider doing this at an AA-meeting?
Saying "Hey, I'm not an alcoholic, I'm not here to help you either, I'm just browsing to know what alcoholics are like and how their partners experience that ?"

There is plenty of information about here on the MB site, there are plenty of good books that cover the subject of infidelity and will satisfy your curiosity.

Please remember that you are not dealing with some subject here like how to grow a plumeria. And even then, no-one would appreciate you NOT speaking out of your own experience, but rather from hear-say (unless you have excellent sources!).

Quote from Cinnamon:
_________
Nope... I see handsome men but nothing of any interest. I am already married after all...
I agree with another poster who said the leap from "looking" to cheating usually happens under the "right" circumstances. And it usually involves little compromises all along the way.
_______________

So at what part are you? You have the right circunstances and taken the little compromises? Are you having fun?

Are you here looking for justifications to start an affair?

I have a thought - maybe she is justifying in her mind how she became the other woman in someone else's marriage.

Quote from Cinnamon:
_________
Nope... I see handsome men but nothing of any interest. I am already married after all...
________

I read:
I have been looking around, there's plenty to choose from....but, uau.. it's so exciting, I am married and all... it's such a different strong emotion...


Quote from Cinnamon:
_________
I agree with another poster who said the leap from "looking" to cheating usually happens under the "right" circumstances. And it usually involves little compromises all along the way.
_______________

I read:
It's really exciting, actually there's this guy... and yes there was some atraction, and.. we kind of connect... and well I kind of already engage in the attraction game, but means nothing... just some flirting.... After all... it just happened... and well... there's so much people cheating... is this really something special I can't loose the chance? Is it that easy to feel like this from someone else? Let me ask how those WS in MB felt... Maybe it's not that wrong... feels good... H wont even know... well if by any chance he will find... I have MB...

That's what I read... but I am hopefully completely wrong.

MoFo, you suggested that CS might have been an OW in her marriage. I don't know if it was you who said that before, but it is patently ridiculous.

CinnamonSugar assured us she did not take her husband from between someone else's legs, and we need to just accept her word on that. I'm sure she has been perfectly frank with us during her time here.

See, that's soo before the starting point for me, it doesnt even count. That might be temptation (for some) to think dirty thoughts, or to mast., or to rape, but to 'cheat' you need to approach or be approached by willing partner. No offense, but I doubt every cute woman you see is just waiting to jump into bed with you, Shrek <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />.

I've seen a million attractive men... cool. I'm not so hyped or desperate (or ?) that each one makes me think of SF. My H makes me think of SF. Cute/sweet men are more like flowers... nice. Really hot guys make me think 'spoiled rotten boy-slut'. NOT very tempting.

It's probably different for women as men are, well, sluttier. We know we can pretty much get what we want, maybe that takes the thrill out of it? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

(ducking for cover) <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> - Dru

Drucilla,

Contrary to WAT's interpretation of guy behavior, not all guys automatically think SF when they see a beautiful woman. I admit to noticing all the time... my W likes to catch me noticing... sometimes I see my W giving me a look and I know that there is a good looking woman near by that I haven't noticed yet... she's waiting for me to notice. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

BUT... unless I am purposely looking for a fantasy (and this is rare... atleast it's been rare since being a teenager <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> ) in my mind, my thoughts don't turn automatically to SF when I see the attractive woman.

I view it like looking at real estate. You can look at a lot of beautiful houses and admire them or appreciate certain qualities in them... but none of them are "Home". They don't have the comfort, the memories, the pieces of you in them that make them special to you. It is the same with seeing a beautiful woman... I can appreciate the beauty... but to think of them in a sexual way just doesn't happen.

I don't think many woman believe this of men. They think we just want one thing all the time... maybe that is because we do just want one thing all the time... with our spouse.<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

Shaden

LMAO! "MoFo" <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

You know, I keep trying to give you guys the benefit of the doubt, but everytime I do, some guy jumps up and demands: "No, really, it's all we think about".

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Me too Resilient...That gets me EVERYTIME! Also the "WTF" for Walking the Field...LOL! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

And Shaden your post was so refreshing to read...Thanks for that! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Mrs. W <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

lol- I need a new name, I know.

Any suggestions?

Based upon one of your own insightful and clever musings, how 'bout ACarney? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Mrs. W

Please don't change it (Mo Fo), I love it.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />LOL Resilient...You just like typing "MoFo" and snickering...ADMIT IT!!! I DO!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Mrs. W

That is not the case.

This is something that I do not consider myself to be capable of.

It would be like using someone else's toothbrush, or wearing their underwear. Sorry-if that's a little gross / judgemental but this is how I see it.

Yeap ... You have me pegged, Mrs. W.

BTW, Jess (GF) no longer works for me. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> He was one of my most talented contractors.

As you may know, he found a perm full time engineering opportunity. One where once he goes to court on custody for his daughter, this "perm" employment status will hopefully be viewed well by the judge. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Jo

From my perspective, the "right" circumstances would mean that I would have to be "willing" and "able" to engage in this behavior. And, I am neither.


H#ll to the no.

Resilient...

Great News About GF...I know you were sad to lose him, but this new job should bode well for custody! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Mrs. W

I am not sure whether you are being sarcastic given the recent emails I have received from two other MB veterans.

And yes-I have been frank, but my frankness was not rewarded...

CS,

Maybe you could simply just come out and tell us why you're asking this question.

Give it a whirl.

Jo

I am asking for the same reason I visited Harley's site int he first place, and for the same reason I read self help books and books about relationships-I actually want to know about this stuff.

There is so much talk about this particular topic online and in real life. The difference here is that in this venue people tend to reveal more about what made them do it, how they felt, what led up to it, etc.


The way I feel about my husband-there is no way anyone could lure me away. And those are the facts.

you really haven't rad harleys books have you- he says ANYONE could have an affair- funny thing I have noticed in life, those that say never usually do.

something to think about.

and here I was thinking you are just here for entertainment at our expense.

Okay, so you're a behavioral research scientist who is data mining. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

If you're not willing to come clean and ditch your hidden agenda, why would you expect anyone here to be honest with you?

Its "glaringly" obvious you are hidding something.

CS, have you noticed that almost without exception everyone on this board, WS and BS alike, has said "I never thought this could happen to me/us."

I'd been married and had been a loyal, faithful wife, in love with my husband for 28 YEARS before my A happened.

As my mother says, never say "never" and never say "always".

Ok, who ya gonna be next? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Mrs. W <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

LOL Mrs W, you are a naughty girl. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

Yeah, frank and filtering out all info she doesn't want us to know, such as why her specific question.

Some folks forget that "omission" is also a form of manipulation/deception.

Power failure for a few days here in PA.. I was hoping to find this bimbo CS gone already. Why are we giving her responses at this point.

LOL, MEDC, we're actually just talking amongst ourselves.

Hi MEDC, welcome back to civilization, lol.

We can always start trading recipes if need be.

Is there even a recipe for CinnamonSugar Toast?

Speaking of recipes, anyone have a good one for French Toast?

I always just throw a bunch of stuff together: about 2 cups of milk, 2-3 eggs, a teensy bit of salt, about 1/4 c of sugar, lots of cinnamon, a moderate amount of nutmeg, and sometimes if I'm feeling daring, just the tiniest dot of allspice.

Then I mix it with the mixer till its all frothy, dip the bread, and fry well. It is much more flavorful than ordinary french toast.

You're making me hongry.

I like neak's but I use 5-6 eggs, less cinnamon, more nutmeg, add vanilla. Let the bread sit out overnight and get a little stiff. It soaks up more mix that way. You can mix everything up the night before and have it ready in the morning. Then you can run a whisk through it and you're good to go.

Hmmmm, makes me want to try it with buttermilk, or maybe 1/2 buttermilk? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I'm hongry, too.

Oh, you're right. I forgot the vanilla. I've never tried making it the night before, but that sounds good. Dry bread? I'd try it once, anyway.

I don't add the sugar in the mix... sprinkle powdered sugar on top after it's cooked. Excellent when you use thickly sliced French bread... or maybe Texas toast.

Shaden

I like using baguettes. They are already crunchy and there's always some leftover.

A friend had a recipe where you put the sliced baguettes in a buttered casserol dish, poured the french toast batter over the top (I think the night before, so it soaks), sprinkled walnuts on top and baked it. VERY easy, no mess, not tied to the stove all morning. Then, add berries and a little creme fresh after it's done... <drool> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Use raisin bread -- it ROCKS that way!

Can I be FRANK? I'm feeling TEMPTED...
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to EAT!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Mrs. W <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

Mrs W,
If the others are "hongry", you can be Frank !
You guys are becoming silly furriners !
honger = hunger in Dutch
And French toast??
we call them wentelteefjes...

My mom made them very simple..
just milk & eggs & left over bread
a little bit of salt
and lots of brown sugar (the light, not the dark kind) on top !
<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

Anyone have a uber delish brownie recipe, the ones that are gooey with tastey hard outside edges?

Participating in ridiculing someone, regardless of what they do or have done, is just plain cruel.

I cheat, I buy a box brownie mix and add a bag of premium chocolate chips and nuts. Where it calls for water (usually 1/4 or 1/2 cup) I use Kahlua or Amaretto <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />. I hear peppermint schnaps works well, too. Then frost with fudge frosting. People flip out, I tell them it's a secret recipe.

Another trick. Mix up a brownie mix, put half in the pan. Add a layer of Heath Bar pieces or the little carmel candies, then add the rest of the mix. Then bake as usual. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

And yet your post is ridiculing many, no?

Mrs. W

Froz - are you talking about the recipes, or something said before? I am honestly not making fun of anyone, though I am guilty of a major TJ.

Hi Frozen,

As I understand it, CinSug is only here for her "info-tainment" (her words).

Jo

Dinner at Dru's!!! Who's in??? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Mrs. W

Ridicule: Words or actions intended to evoke contemptuous laughter at or feelings toward a person or thing

Regardless of what she has said or done, it's wrong to make fun of her.

And you, of course, have the right to your opinion that she is being made fun of...

Mrs. W

By that same token recognize that everyone else has a right to post to this thread (or any other) as they (or the moderators here) see fit...And to decide for themselves if their posts are intended to make fun of someone or not...

Mrs. W

I agree, Froz...

But... the group of posters here asked several times what the reason for this post or whether the poster needed help. They did not receive a "real" reply. We can't help someone if we don't know what they are needing help with.

Now, the post has turned lighthearted. I'm sure if the poster returned and identified what she was looking for, all bantering would stop and the help would begin. Until that happens, I feel that the poster was ridiculing those on here who are truly seeking help... and ridiculing the whole idea of A's... and those that fall prey to it's trap. ...because it would never happen to her as her marriage is too perfect.(a paraphrase of her words).

Shaden

I'd love to cook, it'd be my pleasure <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />.

Froz, it looked like the topic died, we're just TJing. I'm sure any serious questions would be addressed promptly - Dru

Excellent points Shaden...

Further, even when we may know of someone's circumstances...

While that may explain shoddy behavior, it does not excuse it...

Mrs. W

I just added this thread to my favorites, for the sole purpose of being able to pull up Dru's secret brownie recipe whenever I want.

Note to self: it is on page 4.

I have a brownie mix, and would make it today if I had the other stuff. Maybe I could grind up my Reese's PB Cups, or sprinkle some of my trail mix with MM's into the mix.

LOL...On your computer screen maybe...On mine it's on page 2...

Note to self: Never ask Neak for MB thread page number. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Mrs. W

Can we go back to french toast? My son made me feel so good his first visit home from college. He asked me on Saturday night if we could have french toast for breakfast as it just was not as good at college.

Of course I got up at 6 am and made it <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

When we got to church one of the kids from his college who also goes to our church asked if I had made it. She said they were all tired of hearing him say how good it was. Made a mom proud.

I make it really simple:eggs, milk, sugar and vanilla. I like bread that is a few days, old too. He uses the french toast and and bacon to make a sandwich.

Best brownie mix: the cheap one from Martha White- purple bag chewy family size. Serve hot with cold milk.

MoFo...*snicker*

Sweet to his Mama and a brainiac too!!! I KNOW YOU ARE SOOO...PROUD!!! You should be...Not to mention that that sammich does sound yummy! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Mrs. W <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Now, the post has turned lighthearted. I'm sure if the poster returned and identified what she was looking for, all bantering would stop and the help would begin. Until that happens, I feel that the poster was ridiculing those on here who are truly seeking help... and ridiculing the whole idea of A's... and those that fall prey to it's trap. ...because it would never happen to her as her marriage is too perfect.(a paraphrase of her words).

Let me get this straight, CinnamonSugar is neither BS nor WS, has stated that she is on board with Marriage Builders concepts and has repeatedly stated that she believes infidelity to be wrong, wrong, wrong . Because she pointed out that a BS may have other issues that would impede his recovery, she is somehow dangerous to the MB forum? Huh?

Unfortunately BSs are not exempt from alcoholism, drug addiction, sexual orientation issues or mental health issues, and it is folly to assume that the fallout from the resulting poor behavior doesn’t have a negative impact on a marriage. Dr. Harley is quite clear on about the difficulty of recovering such a marriage even using his excellent concepts. If a poster recognizes and articulates a problem in his own life, what is the benefit of dissuading him? Sweep negative behaviour under the rug and hope that the marriage is going to recover without personal change?

A BS has no more right to continue in destructive behaviors anymore than a WS does. CS apparently pointed out a weakness in the recovery process for a poster that precipitated a rather large scale group attack. Take a look on the EN board and see some of the constructive conversations over the years concerning overcoming controlling behaviors, it is hardly anti-MB to do so. A person who sincerely seeks to recover a broken marriage should not leave any stone unturned. Personal recovery MUST go hand in hand with marital recovery for both WS and BS.

Ridicule and sarcasm such as in the quote above bemuse me, I have read hundreds of BSs claim they would NEVER have an affair over the years, with hardly a ripple. BTW, people don’t always need help when they first come to the forums. My H and I didn’t know about them and our recovery was based on reading and implementing SAA and HNHN. We did not need help from the forums but does this mean I should not have participated? I was quite impressed with the majority of CS’s responses to personal attacks myself, she is an articulate, intelligent woman and quite a bit more patient with you all than I would have expected.

Knewbetter,

1st off, Shaden's post was in relation to this thread and this thread only. Going back to the issues of the prior messy thread where Cin Suga's "honesty" was severly questioned with my "honesty" is just digging up old dirt.

I'll play.

You said Cin Suga "pointed out" the BS may have other issues....REALLY????

She did more than just point out....she hammered him on it, expanded upon it, drew huge inferences and out and out ABUSED sbmmal on this issue. Sbmmal is on MB for assitance with busting up his wife's affair. Later, when the affair is over he should go very deeply into the issues that precipitated the breakdown of the marriage. The issues could be discussed, that is clear but to make him out as a wife abuser and deserving of his wife's mistrust AND then infidelity is/was cruel and uncalled for. She was given many posts and opportunities to politely recognize her words were misguided and hurtful but failed to grasp what those here experienced with infidelity could easily grasp.

That's not all she did. She abused NotSoUneak too. With some of her very first posts.

Now, before anyone else responds to KnewBetter I think you all should understand this messenger and think about why KNWEBETTER would speak to us this way, as well as why she may be SO interested in what is happening with Cinnamon Sugar without as much offering ways to obtain a positive resolution to this argument/debate. To put it bluntly: When people want to have "input" you must sometimes beware of those who will want to see us all fail because it confirms that their own failure was normal and valid. To be very blunt KNEWBETTER post seems quite negative. Please BEWARE.

I would caution all against internalizing this statement (or any statement) made by KNEWBETTER: "Personal recovery MUST go hand in hand with marital recovery for both WS and BS."

If you have read and understood any of the info on this site, this statement is patently absurd. When your wayward spouse discontinues their wayward way, only then can a BS truly commence FULL personally recovery, and, of course, marital recovery.

Mr. Wondering

Can SOMEONE, ANYONE PLEASE give me the recipe for CinnamonSugar toast. I'm hungry. (and it's Breakfast time here)

Go chase down a Kangaroo, ya silly furriner!!! I'd say shoot one, but what with your being disarmed and all... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Mrs. W <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

1st off, Shaden's post was in relation to this thread and this thread only. Going back to the issues of the prior messy thread where Cin Suga's "honesty" was severly questioned with my "honesty" is just digging up old dirt

The quote was from this thread and referenced this thread only.

Now, before anyone else responds to KnewBetter I think you all should understand this messenger and think about why KNWEBETTER would speak to us this way, as well as why she may be SO interested in what is happening with Cinnamon Sugar without as much offering ways to obtain a positive resolution to this argument/debate.

A positive resolution would be to try to listen carefully to what is being said by other posters/people without using disrespectful judgment when replying. Of course there are many on the board who do not feel that MB concepts apply to anyone other than their spouse but the acceptance of using DJs as a method to disagree can easily leak into the marriage.



When people want to have "input" you must sometimes beware of those who will want to see us all fail because it confirms that their own failure was normal and valid.

This is a good example of a DJ. I would love to see recovery, TRUE recovery for all who arrive here and I have put quite a bit of personal time in on this board to do so using the MB concepts as my guide.

Oh Mr. W, there is absolutely no failure, our marriage is wonderful and it is in large part to the hope and tools that Dr. Harley’s work gave us years ago. Life is GRAND, I wish the same for you Mr. Wondering!

When your wayward spouse discontinues their wayward way, only then a BS can personally start recovery and of course, marital recovery".

Yes, BUT it’s a process. Sorry if you misunderstood that, I should have been more clear. Addictions, abusive behavior ect. can sometimes take years to overcome and infidelity doesn’t excuse the fact that they need to be dealt with if the marriage is to be completely healed. Understanding there is a problem with our behavior must come before we can do anything about it. CS took issue with the sweeping under the rug of the poster's own understanding of himself.

The EN board covers many personal growth issues and has been a great help to many. It is a part of MB as well, a useful tool for those who want to examine personal and/ or marital issues. Dealing with personal issues doesn’t take anything away from the issue of a partner’s infidelity, if anything it enhances the individual’s ability to deal with it, kwim? Hope that this clears things up for you. KB

Sorry, to disappoint you but I have never had those feelings. I am not saying that it is imposiible, but it just isn't within the scope of my personality.

Kind of like doing drugs isn't...

Aren't there some things that you just have NO interest in participating in?

Well, speaking for you... that must include hinesty... since you seem to want to avoid that at all costs.... time for me to add this [color:"red"] woman [/color] to the blocked list.

I am no Behavioral Scientist. I am just curious.





People are very eager to talk about themselves. The difference with this venue is that the perceived anonymity sometimes influences people to reveal things that they otherwise wouldn't.




Soemtimes the way you perceive other people often has to do with how you perceive yourself.

And sometimes it is just because the person is an *****.

My reply was real.




lighthearted = making fun of someone

Wow...I gues it's all about perspective.




Affairs are SERIOUS business-nothing to make fun of.

When did asking questions become ridiculing someone?



How does "I am not interested in having an affair" translate into "My marriage is perfect" ???

Knewbetter... you've gone way over my head here.

I was responding to Froz's post in that we were all ridiculing Cin Suga. I cannot speak for the other posters, except to say that most of them I have seen repeatedly offer excellent help and advice to many. My inclusion in the French Toast line of thought was simply that... an interest in their recipes.

I have seen countless threads on here go off in other directions to the point where you forget what the original thread was about... or that there are several conversations happening at once like in a counterpoint harmony. I entered in on this basis alone. My comment about Cin sug being ridiculing was simply MHO and in debate to Froz's inference that we all were ridiculing her. I simply felt that it was going both ways.

Where you lost me was stating that I was saying that Cin Sug is dangerous to the MB community. Where the he!! do you get that from what I had said? If you have read any of my other posts, you will see that I have always promoted free speach on these threads and strongly feel that all input has some value.

I also have stated that marriage is a difficult part of life...one for mature adults. If someone is unable to take some good-natured jabs or even vindictive words from strangers on a forum, then how can they ever have the maturity and strength to handle marriage?

Now, I am not saying that Cin Sugar is like this. In fact I've been impressed with her fairly calm responses throughout. I am merely defending against the wrap on the knuckles we were receiving.

Shaden

PS...Mr. W... thanks for the help. Mrs. W... I'm starting to get a little wordy, do you think you could offer some advice?

CS... if you look back you will see my post was edited. I added this line in after more for effect. I shouldn't have and I apologize.

Shaden

[color:"red"]I'm sorry Knewbetter. You did a wonderful job of responding with maturity and clarity to my abusive, disrespectfull and attacking post.

I know nothing about you as a poster and personally meant none of my post after the words "Now before". I apologize if you took offense at any of those words. They were not sincere or real. Rather, I just altered the exact same words Cinn Sugar used (see below) to attack Notsouneak. It was Cinn Sugar's 2nd post ever on MB. I'm betting/hoping her words don't seem so insightful, articulate and intelligent when they go after YOU.

Mr. Wondering


In case you missed it the first time I'll quote it for you:[/color]

CS... The reason the word real is in quotations is because I meant that there didn't seem to be a reason explaining your questions... at least not one that made sense to me. I was not saying that you were lying... just had not explained yourself to my satisfaction, anyway, after repeated questions.

There is nothing wrong with being curious or trying to protect yourself from an A in the future. It may seem strange to many for someone to read a book about dealing with alchoholism when the person is neither an alchoholic, dealing with an alchoholic or studying to assist alchoholics. Just curiosity, although not wrong, seems unusual. The same would be for your responses to why you are asking about infidelity. Nothing wrong, and in fact, extremely insightful of you if you are simply trying to be proactive and ensure your marriage is protected. I guess that would have been an answer that may have helped. But unless I missed it in my reading, I didn't see any such answer. If it is there, then again I apologize.

Shaden

Mr W, KB rocks, always has and always will. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

CS, you chose the infidelity board even though your marriage has not been affected by infidelity. That is why your motives are being questioned and why everyone is so sensitive to your presence. There are a number of posters on this board who are neither WS or BS and they are well known for their wisdom and humour, support and 2x4s.

I don't think for a moment you're a troll, trolls have a different "feel" to them.

I think you are looking for something.

Apology accepted Shaden.




At this time-allow me to take the opportunity to state this:

My marriage is not perfect. I don't think any relationship is perfect because relationships involve people and people are imperfect beings.


I'll throw something out there...

One thing that my husband says I could work on:
-Double standards: He says I abhorr gender based stereotyping, yet I insist that he does all the traditionally "male" stuff around the house.

Well, after much analysis, consideration (and denial)-I was forced to conclude that he was 100% correct.

Right on Sista...





But "everyone" don't have the right to disagree with MB veterans!


LOL!

KnewBetter,

I'll also add this for your (and others) understanding.

Mrs. W and I are friends of Neak off-line. Her husband's OW has never gotten over being "betrayed"/dumped by her MM. Such OW has continually harassed Neak and her husband. It had been awhile but Neak rightfully suspected that Cinn Suga MAY be such OW after her post I quoted above and a few others specifically going after Neak. Our initial responses were an effort to draw her out as a seeming troll.

Later Cinn Suga's unexplainable abuse of Sbmmal made us wonder if she was Sbmmal's wayward wife or some other related party clearly accepting his wife's foggy depiction of his marriage. Again, we defended Sbmmal and tried to draw her out and away because she seemed suspicios again and potential troll.

Follow the threads...these suspicions were not unrealistic. We have seen it happen on MB time and time again.

It "appears", afterall, that she is neither Neak's OW nor a troll. However, I'll say it again, something is wrong with this womans current thinking and it is apparent in her posts. Support has been offered time and time again. IT IS NOT ABOUT WINNING SOME ARGUMENT. KnewBetter, you of all people KNOW we honestly would support her if she chose to "frankly" provide us with the issues in her marriage...they are readily apparent to most if not all herein.

Unfortunately, Cinn Suga has made it clear she has no intent to discuss such problems, SO....what's to discuss??? lets all have fun and blow off some steam. It's all just info-tainment.

Mr. W

Where you lost me was stating that I was saying that Cin Sug is dangerous to the MB community. Where the he!! do you get that from what I had said

Oops, I’m so sorry Shaden I accidentally inferred that you said she was dangerous. My apologies, they were actually someone else’s words, who or what thread, I have no clue.

The quote struck me actually because when she said exactly what others on this thread have said before her, she was singled out. I just don't like witch hunts, I've spoken out against them before. I'm also ashamed to admit that I actually fueled one once, (anyone remember the infamous TA??....NOT the poster called Together Alone, just to clarify!!!) That one *sort* of worked out, I put in tons of time with him to make up for being so initially aggressive. *sigh*

Anyway, again my sincere apologies for misrepresenting you, it was completely my fault! KB

Mr. Wondering, no offense taken...I don't have time to read through your posts as we are going out to dinner in a few minutes and I'm not quite ready. Our house rule is no MB on weekends but I'll get back to you, until then, have a good one. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> KB

And the "certain" poster who liked to refer to you as Knowitall. LMAO.

You were right on the money with his sitch (probably why he got so riled up).

CS,

By virtue of the deep life altering pain involved, all B-Boards listed under "Infidelity" on the Marriage Builder's Site should not be consider a place where one comes to get their "Info-tainment". You have no idea what these fine folks have had to go thru.

Jo

Mrs. W, you know nothing other than I allowed a friend in need to use my PC and email address.

This is not something I'll allow you to think you have to hold over my head, so I'll reveal it here:

Mutual friends of ours (friends of me & my husband) are having a serious problem: Domestic violence. My friend confided in me. My husband is TDY and he intends to talk with her husband when he returns. They are both Marines and they are the same rank that's how we all became friends. We are very good friends and we hope that the marriage does not dissolve (See I actually believe in marriage!)

My friend probably needs therapy; but for now she decided to join a yahoo group-Domestic Violence Survivors-to speak with other people who are in a similar situation. Until very recently, talking with the folks in the group was therapeutic for her.

I allowed her to use my PC and my yahoo ID so her husband would not know / find out about it for now.

Someone on MB saw my email address (I posted it in that infamous thread offering SB an ear) and this someone performed a yahoo search . They found the posts my friend wrote in the support group.

Mr. & Mrs. Wondering contacted me via email because this same someone who they called "someone they did not even know" emailed them these posts. The Wonderings claim that this was not done to "out me" but to make them "understand" where I was coming from. They offered to "help me."

I refused their help & told them what it is that they had actually had found. I told them that my opinions remain intact and I asked them not to contact me anymore via personal email. They replied with an apology and some other prose, and my response (just prior to me shutting down that yahoo account) was to suggest a "cease fire." Apparently they did not like the suggestion because they (Mr. & Mrs. Wondering and their daughter, Neak) have been dropping [color:"blue"]mad hints about "what they know" up in here [/color] as if to threaten or intimidate me.

I imagine that if I step too far out of line, they'll justify revealing what they found. Then they'll say that the reason that I do not agree with the MB veterans about everything is because the posts were mine, and I am in desperate need of help.

The sad part about this is that a difference of opinion in an online forum resulted in a full scale cyber attack that eventually made its way off the board.

There you have it ladies & gents.

Any questions?

No problem, KB. I'm a fairly simple guy. I really was excited to read the French Toast recipes. I started putting in vanilla and nutmeg a couple of years ago without reading it anywhere. My W thinks I'm crazy when I start dabbling with food. I thought it was cool that I picked the right ingredients to add when I read it here from the rest. I've even added in food colouring... my boys love the green french toast, but my W is not too hot on the idea.

As to witchhunts... I'm still trying to get a handle on what a troll is exactly and why one would be here. I think I've got it figured out, but I'm not in the business of witchhunts.

Shaden

If you don't like the word info-tainment, perhaps it is because you don't understand the way I meant it.

It is not a disrespectful of cavalier term from my perspective.

First-there is a great deal of information here. The purpose of this board is information and support. The other piece is this:


Visiting these boards is indeed entertaining.


Trust me-web designers are paid to maximize this aspect of your web site experience. If the visits were not entertaining, there would not be so many hits.


Information + Entertainment = Infotainment.

Perhaps because I tend to detach from the more emotional aspects of communication, I don't view this as offensive...but I hope I have made my position a little more clear.

Honey, you're telling me about IT terminology and web design intent??? LMAO!

That's awfully sweet of you, but believe me when I tell you, you can skip the electronic's theory 101, trust me on this.

Thanks Shaden...In light of all the cyber abuse I have taken, that means alot. But beware! You are challenging the authorities here by apologizing to me...LOL

BTW-You hit a few of the nails on the head so to speak:

I guess I am an unusual person. I have been told as much by many different people. I can get interested in a topic simply because it catches my attention or because I don't know very much about it and would like to be informed. I can also get interested in finding info which proves / disproves my opinion about a subject. I tend to look at learning as "fun."

And you are correct-Part of my curiosity on this board is fueled by the desire to be proactive about my marriage. Again, this is why I read lots of relationship books and read what the "experts" say about love & marriage.

Heck-I was reading parenting books and I was member of many parenting web sites by the 2nd week of my pregnancy.

That's just how I roll.

And CS, I do find it offensive that you're attempting to use a place of pain and anguish for your on-line entertainment.

People come here to heal and gain support for one of the worse experiences of their lives. And all you see is a place to entertain yourself. Sad and somewhat morbid.

That's actually a good plan since you are in the habit of speaking for other people, communication with you is not possible.

Go for it!

Yup, us people who've been to ****** and back sure are entertaining.

Shaden, there's a definition of a troll floating around the board somewhere.

Time to dust it off I think.

yes, I am looking for info & to help me be proactive about my marriage.

I am the proactive type. My philosophy is that an ounce of prevention is worth a megaton of cure.

CinSug...

LOL, first Neak is NOT our daughter...A friend and contemporary only...

Second, I had no intention of "outing" you on this board, though you certainly had no problems putting our email to you on another board...I have no problem with that, as it contains the email addy that Mr. W and I both supply in our signature lines here and my email to you was very nice...Conveniently, though I noticed you did leave out your very snotty reply to my very genuine email to you...And, of course, then twisted the story on your other board...

I'll not argue with you about the semantics involved in the similarities between you and "your friend"...If you'd like, however, I would be glad to post my emails and yours...Along with "your friend's" post...

And AGAIN, we don't know who researched you...An anonymous email came to us...sigh...

Either ante up or move on...

Mrs. W

Well, Halle -lu- YA
See post # 3062501 for a problem within [color:"red"] my[/color] marriage. I just know you will feel better once you attempt to "help" me out.

Please give it a try. I am still unable to stop this behavior.

So, web sites are not designed to be entertaining so that visitors will be inclined to linger?

BTW-Your use of the word honey indicates that you are becoming emotional.

Can anyone say "deflection".

BTW: Your use of "Well, Halle -lu- YA" indicates you're becoming emotional. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

CS, I just want to ask you as a fellow human being to consider the people here and what they're going through.

Would you go on to a site where the damage is more visible (my previous example of breast cancer support or perhaps wounded war vets) and do what you're doing here?

I have stated my position which is:

*I meant no disrespect to anyone here or their experiences.



*I do not view entertainment as a negative thing-especailly within the context of information dissemination. This is because people tend to retain more info when they are being entertained while receiving it.


That being said, I will not respond to this issue again because I believe that you are simply participating in the continuation of the ongoing cyber bash against me.

There are 2 reasons for POSTING on this board CinSug...

1. To offer help or support

2. To ask for help or support

As far as your "info-tainment" theory is concerned, LURKING and READING should suffice!

Mrs. W

Cinn Suga

I am very sorry your husband has abused you, however, such abuse DOES NOT EXCUSE YOUR BEHAVIOR HERE. It explains it (oh, does it explain it), but doesn't make it justifiable.

I speculate that you are being tempted by someone consoling you during this difficult time. I implore you not to risk your integrity, no matter how entitled you "feel".

I hope your husband gets the help he needs and/or you extricate yourself from such mess. An affair will only complicate matters further.

Mr. Wondering

Ma'am I DID NOT post your email anywhere other than in that group to let the moderator and the members know what was going on. This was important. According to my friend some of these women's husbands would FLIP OUT on them if they found out about their participation in the group. Sorry, but I had to do it.

We need to get to the bottom of this if it actually happened somewhere else. It could be that someone is trying to incite / instigate further hostilities.


As for the rest of your comments: We should simply move on, up, and away from "my friend's" {((smirk))} situation. Though I seriously doubt you'll be able to because you haven't been able to thus far.


I intend to continue to be a participant on this board, so you'll eventually have to make your peace with [color:"red"] that fact [/color] and move on.

Believe dat.

HOLD UP...






I thought this was primarily a place for information, support and recovery...



MY BAD.

CinSug,

If you are indeed a battered wife, this site is not equipped to support you fully. We can try, but its intent and infrastructure is setup for dealing with Infidelity.

That didn't take long at all.

Damn...you caught me. I am really [color:"blue"] SB's wife [/color] .

We have another winner!

My intent is to stay with him...for the money of course (because we all know taht military members are rolling in dough) AND I also intend to have an affair or three.

Judging by the posts here, it will be what hurts him the most..you know-like the way you hurt YOUR wife.

I have a feeling your particular brand of abuse likely won't allow us the luxury of your presence for long, whether you like it or not.

We'll see.

Mr. W

I practically guarantee she won't last long. She will get bored and leave. I believe Dat.

Ever heard of "men's intuition"? No?

Well there's a reason for that-LOL!

BTW-I started another thread, and you [color:"purple"] ain't [/color] welcome there.
(((Sticking tongue out)))

I am all against spousal abuse... but even I would have to seriously think about a foot in this womans [censored].

Yes-I would ask questions and expect adult answers.


And if I disagreed with anyone's opinon I would not expect a cyber attack. I would also not expect people to conduct an off board cyber inquiry into my identity.

[color:"red"]This is the 2nd time such speculation, the 1st being privately by email in consideration of you, not to threaten you, that you have responded with hostility.

Interesting...perhaps telling.

BTW, I am a BH, not a WH.

W [/color]

Here is CinSug's Post from the Domestic Violence Forum...EMAILED ANONYMOUSLY TO US...And YES, we did email her and TRY to offer her support...

I'm posting this to allow others here the same insight that we have been granted and so that CinSug's situation may be more fully understood by all...And perhaps she might accept help from someone here...

To be clear, I was NOT holding this information over her head...However, she seems **** Bent on staying, so perhaps someone here can offer her something...

****************EDIT***************

IS ANYONE going to address the issues that I posted about my marriage. You all said that yuou would be "the first" to support me if I spilled my beans.

Well I spilt 'em and no one has offered a grain of "help."

I must ask: Where oh where is your magnanomousity and generosity of spirit this evening?

CinSug,

Reading the above, I'm starting to understand.

You said yourself you're not keeping this a secret any longer. You have nothing to be ashamed of. Your husband is sick.

I'm terribly sorry for what you have been through and for what your son has experienced.

I "feel" gender stereotyped.

W

You do realize that you behaved exactly as I predicted with this post right?

And let's not make any mistake. You did not post that to "help" anyone gain any "insights." You posted it and accused ME of writing it in order to embarras / punish me for not leaving the board as you and your loving husband have demanded.

The funny thing is this: Embarrassment has virtually no material effect in cyberspace, and since I know the truth it will have no effect at all.

People will have one of two reactions here:
1) They will say "She is a battered woman, and that's whay she thinks ABCDE" They will disagree with something I say and try to negate my position based on this.

2) They will disgustedly shake their heads and say that this witch hunt has gone way too far.

I will nevertheless stand my ground. This board and its forums are public, and I will continue to participate regardless of what you say.

How 'bout using your ignore button...Or NOT entering threads that I start.

Would either of these things be appealing to you?

I thought you were puttin "this woman" on ignore...

What happened to that plan?

Well, I told you-I have ISSUES with that mess...And so far, narry a one of you has jumped up to help me out.

You forgot #3, which is:

Members here wouldn't judge you, but in sharp contrast support you, because they too have been through emotional abuse.

Maybe if you were to roll down your tendency to be a bit defensive, you could receive that. JMVHO

Well, thanks. He is indeed a sick mofo and I appreciate sympathy whenever and wherever I can get it.


Does this mean you will refuse to participate in future cyber attacks against me?

I have no idea WHAT you just said in the first part of that sentence, but lemmie tell you this: Your count is WAY off.

I have responded "with hostility" many more times than that. And, you should expect more-if you keep on keepin' on.

Don't play [color:"blue"] Let's See Who Can CyberHit the Hardest [/color] if you ain't prepped for the licks.

For further clarity...Email correspondance with CinSug...

*********EDIT****************


I'm done...

Mrs. W

I hope you are not suggesting that I refrain form defending myself so as to appear helpless in order to incite chivalry in the bystanders...That just ain't my style.

BTW- You missed something when you added # 3...I don't consider what is going on in the forums as "emotional abuse." I would have to be emotionally invested here to experience "abuse" at the hands of a few cyber bullies.

Hey-I am FEmale. That means [color:"blue"] I get a pass [/color] . LOL!

When I wrote of emotional abuse, I'm talking about infidelity and betrayal and all which that implies. As opposed to "physical" abuse which you have experienced.

Thanks for posting that. Now everyone can pick sides for themselves-oops...I meant "see for themselves."

Well, that was a long time ago. And I got my revenge when ex-boyfriend tried to get back together with me abot a year later.


He asked me to meet him for coffee in Manhattan. I agreed becasue I was curious and when I saw him I didn't even recognize him.


I mean-Good Lawd-this mofo went from ADONIS to JACK BLACK. But I was still my fione self.

You just made me smile. Thanks...

Well, y'all...

This thread has been interesting, entertaining, and a little sad.

I'm still working on my conflict avoidance issues and ain't quite ready to go head to head any further in this one.

I'm heading out now for a week... going to a nice cabin in a beautiful provincial park (there are some nice places on the Prairies).

I'm assuming I won't still see this thread going when I get back.

Take care.

Shaden

Co signed!

This thread will be dead when you get back but fear not-when you return my groupies will have followed me to another thread and cyberbeaten be to a bloody cyberpulp-LOL!

Have a great time...

You know, CS, if you'd get over thinking everybody here is out to getcha, you might be surprised at what good friends we can be to you.

If Mrs. W. had wanted to embarrass you, she would have pasted that post here in the first place instead of emailing you to offer her hand of support. Instead, you snapped at her hand, and YOU are the one who made a big deal of it here.

I know you said your "friend" was using your computer and your ID to post on that forum, but that doesn't really make sense. It makes sense to use your computer, in case her H put a keylogger on hers; but, there's no reason why your "friend" should have used your ID and email addy, when it's so easy to get her own.

Your vehemence in hammering Sbmmal about abusing his wife did make me wonder if your H was abusing you. And, no, I'm no the one who "researched" you and found you on the other forum.

The way you come across to me is as if you EXPECT people to attack you, so you go on the offense and get your licks in first.

You really don't have to do that here. Really, you don't. Oh, sure, we might give a few virtual 2x4s to those members whose behaviors are really screwing up their marriages, but it's not done to be hurtful.

And, the 2x4s we were heaping on your head were not done to hurt you, but to PROTECT Neak and Sbmmal from being hurt by you. When you started posting, we had no idea who you were, and your initial focus on Neak and Sbmmal quite naturally made us wonder if you were Neak's H's FOW or Sbmmal's WW. That is likely why someone felt the need to find out who you were.

So, if you're serious about what you said in your last post and not just trying to appear sarcastic, how about toning down the bravado a bit and simply ask for what you need? I'm not sure what help we could give you, other than to try to figure out ways in which you can keep yourself and your son safe, but we can and will support you emotionally...if you will let us.

When is your H going to be deployed? That should give you some respite from abuse...assuming that you are indeed the person who is being abused.

Are you serous? LOL.... I started THIS thread, and believe me people came in here to get my [censored].

You should know that I am not interested in "friends" of your stripe

I like friends who have the following qualities (not an inclusive list):

-Able to debate and disagree without becoming angered at the lack of consensus.

-Fascinated by a lack of consensus and motivated to delve deeper without trying to figure out "what is wrong with the dissenter."

-Able to ask and answer questions and NOT go ape $hit when the answer isn't what they suspected or expected.





Lady Clueless,

The fact that someone could so easily find your Internet activity (as illustrated by what happened here) makes it extremely sensible to disguise yourself.

My friend and I are not Internet savvy, and that's all we could think of under the circumstances. Actually we were more thinking of her situation than "proper Internet protocol" at the time. The woman was distraught & I was horrified. She came over wanting to use my PC to find DV and divorce info, she, found the group, joined it, and started typing. I left it alone. At a time like that -I am going to say "Hey! STOP! create your own yahoo ID dammit!) There's really nothing more to it than that.

But please, come out with it, and say that I am a liar directly .

I believe that you need to think of me as a battered woman so you can have some kind of "explanation" as to why I don't agree with you and the others.

What makes no sense to me is the MB veterans claim that they want to help when contrasted against how they actually treat the dissenters. The resounding silence about the real marrital issue that I posted is also proof of their real intentions. The only response that I received on that one was a sarcastic comment from Mr. Wondering RIGHT AFTER he said he would help me if I posted marrital issues.

There are two edges to this:

*If you and the others truly believe I am a woman who has been beaten by her husband, then your behavior here is even more [color:"red"] reprehensible [/color]. Including and especially the posting of my alleged story. People who reveal their problems here, do so of their own free will. Others do not do it for them.

*If you don't believe it but are using it as a tactic to try to force me to leave the board, then you are ghouls of the lowest order.

Either way, I am still here and will be here as you can see by your visit to THE OTHER thread I created. I have no doubt that you will continue to visit my threads, becasue they will be interesting.

I am an inquisitive person who is well-known for asking damned good questions.

CS, so I have a question..... are you saying that there were 2 different people posting under your user name?

L.

Yes, Sir / Ma'am.

But-Not on this thread. On a Domestic Violence Support Group on yahoo groups...

The MB "researcher" found what my friend posted & allegedly emailed it to Mr. & Mrs Wondering for the purpose of promoting an "understanding" of why I did not share some of their views. These two then sent the yahoo email address associated with that post a message saying that they now "understand" my situation" and they wanted to help. My friend alerted me and I replied to them personally because I was outraged-I felt that a cyber witch hunt moved off the MB boards. I told them what they actually found and asked them not to contact me anymore OFF the MB boards.

You can see the messages for yourself because one of them posted the messages that we exchanged right here in this thread. They have also posted my friend's post from the Domestic Violence Support Group and said it was mine in order to get me to leave the board.


My friend and I decided to warn the others in the group because of obvious security issues.

As I said, I did not force the issue of her establishing her own email account because 1) I have a comcast account which I have had forever and which I consider to be much more user friendly; therefore I hardly used that yahoo address anyway. 2) I was not going to be an jerk about it and insist in the middle of what was happening that she NOT use the account.


The group has since been shut down and moved to a more secure site.

Why do you think that people are out to "get your [censored]"? Think about it, if so, it's because it's not because you have different opinions. Have you ever considered that it's how you use your opinions to attack others?


I think most people prefer friends who meet those requirements. So, don't you think you should be able to meet those requirements, also? By the way, the anger that was originally displayed toward you was not because of your opinions, but the way you used your opinions to browbeat and abuse Neak and Sbmmal. When we objected to your awful treatment of them, YOU are the one who went "ape $hit".


Although I was not the researcher who found you, I had already formed an opinion that abuse must be a serious issue in your own life, due to your treatment of Sbmmal, if, of course, you weren't his wife or a cohort of hers. That was the only explanation I could find for why a stranger would pick out his post and start relentlessly pounding on him for being an abusive husband (who, BTW, stated that he had never hit his wife). And, you kept doing so, despite the fact that others told you that you were being abusive to him. The man was here for HELP, and had already decided that some of his "control issues" may have been abusive toward his wife.

Since you don't have any experience with infidelity, you didn't (and probably still don't) understand that many BS do try to look at themselves to see what it was they were doing that led their WS to have an affair. Yes, most of the time, we weren't meeting our spouse's needs, but it's not the BS's fault that the WS cheated. However, many of us start believing the WS's claims of being abused..or whatever the WS is claiming, and we often believe that we were worse than we were. IMHO, before hammering Sbmmal about being abusive, it would have been a good idea to find out exactly what kind of controlling behaviors his wife was calling abusive. Angry outburst? Well, I'm sure that most people have had those at some point or another. Sometimes, an angry outburst is understandable, although the angry spouse should express anger in a more constructive way. For instance, suppose Sbmmal had an angry outburst upon learning that his wife had maxxed out a credit card, despite having repeatedly explained that their financial situation couldn't handle any more debt? Probably shouldn't have had an angry outburst, but he is like the rest of us..only human and we don't always think before we act. It wouldn't be wrong for him to be angry, though. And, suppose that Sbmmal cancelled other credit cards, or had the limit reduced on them, so that his wife couldn't continue to pile unbearable debt upon their heads. Would you consider that to be controlling and abusive behavior? Well, I would certainly call it taking control of the finances, but in the situation I've outlined, I don't think that this "controlling behavior" would be be abusive. Would you?

Our issue with you, in regards to Sbmmal, is that the man was in Iraq, in a perilous and dangerous position, while dealing with recently learning that his wife is in yet another affair, and desperately seeking help to learn how to rebuild his marriage. He was already feeling LOW (bad news in a situation where his LIFE depends on his ability to deal with his problems), and here comes CinnamonSugar...telling him that his wife is gone for good, to forget about trying to save the marriage, and proceeding to let him know what a horrible abuser he is (when you don't even know what behaviors of his were being called abuse) and that he needs to fix himself, blah, blah, blah. Well, what do you think MB is all about? Yes, MB is for helping people rebuild their marriages, but the core of the principles is that they have to work on fixing and changing themselves...and that the changes have to be permanent.

Nobody disagreed with you that an abuser needs to work on and resolve his issues before he can have a good relationship or marriage.

Your behavior toward Sbmmal is what we disagreed with you about.

Your treatment of Neak is what initially raised our alarm. She and her FWH are in recovery and in love with each other. Why did you single her situation out as being so horrible?
While dealing with a WS is horrible in itself, her FWH's affair was relatively short-term, and I don't think he was ever OUT of love with Neak. Neak is an amazing woman, with great strength and courage. She loves her H, and she took the bull by the horns and fought for her marriage, and won. So, if Neak loves her H, won him back from the clutches of a desperate OW, and is happy, who are you to say that she should have dumped him.

Oh, and the STD thing you kept castigating Neak about...well, there are other BS who actually did contract an STD from their WS...usually before they found out their WS was cheating.

There are plenty of stories on the boards of WS who have treated their BS, and even their children, so badly that I have been astounded. Look up inTexas, Pepsi, Cherished (her H broke her arm, as she will tell you), Mortarman, GoodFather, HurtinginOK, DazedandConfusedKS (not sure of the ID on that one), and many others. So, why did you pick on Neak? Was it because she was actually being helpful to Sbmmal?



I don't need to think of you as anything. Again, your opinions were not what I disagreed with..well, not all of them, anyway. What I disagreed with was your hatefulness toward Neak, Sbmmal, and anyone who disagreed with you. Your vehemence and apparent hostility toward Sbmmal were what led me to think that you had a personal issue with abuse.


Actually, I perceived that you were being sarcastic about the issue you posted, so I didn't respond. Besides, you stated that you had concluded that your H was 100% correct. So, since you had apparently resolved that issue, what was there for anyone to say?


We have responded, in kind, to your [color:" red"] reprehensible [/color] behavior. As far as your alleged story, I believe you were the one who brought it to this board in your post of July 21st, at 9:06 p. m.

Because you distorted the whole issue in an apparent effort to discredit the Wonderings, it became necessary to have those posts pasted here, so others could see the whole story and judge for themselves.


I personally don't care who posts on this board, so long as they don't deliberately try to hurt people. I don't worry about trying to force people to leave the board, because sooner or later, the moderators can/will take care of that lil' job.


Yes, I did visit your other thread. I thought I'd give you a chance to start over and see if you could actually treat others with respect. I do give you credit for trying. I was pleasantly surprised to see that you actually seem to consider the points of view that others had to offer.

That being said, we've told you what we've learned that we didn't know when we came to MB, as well as WHY. However, when we've asked you what made you believe certain things, you've gone on the attack and let us know that nothing would make you change your opinion. You've been asked what facts led you to your conclusions, and I believe you said that you didn't have any facts...that it was just your opinion and you weren't changing your mind. I'm curious as to how you come to your opinions, then. I generally take what I know and have experienced, and form my opinions from those. Oh, and I believe that your opinion of yourself is highly inflated. You really are not that important. What's important to us is that you not be allowed to hurt others with your vindictiveness.


Except you didn't bother to ask any questions before you started jumping Sbmmal's case.


Look, I'm going to lay it on the line for you.

When I first started reading your posts, my initial thoughts were, "OMG! What a witch (with a b)!" Then, as I kept reading your posts to Sbmmal, my thoughts changed to "Why is she going after Sbmmal when she doesn't even know what is being called abuse?" From there, it was very easy to draw the conclusion that abuse had been/must be a very big issue in your life. I don't think I was the only one who was thinking this. I imagine that whoever researched your email addy may have also been wondering about it. Then, after reading the posts under your ID on that forum, and noting that the posting style is very much like yours here, as well as the pertinent information matching what you've posted here, it was very easy to conclude that you were one and the same person. If you are not, I apologize.

I also have some opinions about abuse, and I don't think you will like them, but here goes.

First, I want to emphatically state that abuse is WRONG. It is NEVER OK to hit your spouse. The only exception I would make is if my spouse was hitting me and I had a weapon at hand that would stop him.

I think that most people have an image of an abused wife being this sweet lil' woman who quakes in her boots at the thought of displeasing anyone or standing up for herself. I don't think this is always true.

I've heard people say that some women like being beaten. I used to disagree with that statement vehemently. That doesn't mean that I totally agree with it now. I don't think women like being beaten black and blue, BUT I do think that some women like the drama and the sympathy of others. They actually seem to relish being a "victim". I also think that some of these women actually instigate a lot of the violence in their lives. Sure..their husbands definitely DO have a problem with their anger and inability to control it; hence, they lash out with their hands and fists when provoked. I'm not talking about the man who comes home drunk and just decides to beat the crap out of his wife because she's there. I'm talking about the man who has a wife who thrives on drama and who knows how to make him angry enough to lash out...and does it. IMHO, both of these people need some serious help.


So, what I am seeing here is a woman who comes to MB and immediately starts lashing out at a hurting BS, gets a whole bunch of 2X4s from veteran posters (who then offer help, which she does not want), and then continually talks about how cyberbullies are after her and trying to run her off the board, but she is soooo brave and will stand her ground, blah, blah...hmmmm...


Well, that does it...I'm not in this little drama anymore. Everybody else can decide for themselves whether or not they want to be transformed into your "abuser".


Have a nice life.

As far as SB and IRAQ goes. There are lot's of husbands, wives, mothers, fathers, sisters, brothers, aunts, and uncles, in Iraq. My husband has been to Iraq THREE times, and he has been in each and every conflict that the US has engaged in for the past 20 years. My husband will be going to Iraq once again in a few months. Iraq is not the issue. And, if SB had enough time to be posting up in here while in IRAQ as much as he did , [color:"blue"]he clearly was NOT in a HOT ZONE [/color].

SB's Iraq duty is not the issue. The man came to the boards for support and requested advice. If someone asks for that that is what they should receive even if some portions of it are hard to swallow; however, the collective we's brand of advice and support includes denial and high-fiving-something that did not serve SB well at all.

All I did was ask questions. I asked: Have you abused your wife? What "felonies" (his word!) have you "committed" (his word!) against your wife? Why are your in-laws co-signing the accusation of abuse? He avoided answering once or twice but then I repeated the questions, and he answered.




Lady Clueless, I think you should speak for yourself.

Repeatedly using the words "We felt"... "That's why we reacted to you this way"... and any form of "We this and that" appear foolish in this particular situation since the actions of the collective we do not match up with what you are saying here.

You are contradicting the collective we when you say that we retaliated against me by going blow for blow because the collective we claims that they were only trying to "help" a soul in need. They hold this claim for each and every action they have taken up to and including the posting of my friend's private story after saying they do not intend to OUT anyone.

Judging by your rather lengthy post here appears that the collective we have some coordinating to do.

But-if what you say is true: That I will not be experiencing any more of your "good intentions" I am satisifed with that.

That's what I thought-LOL!