I moved this from "Just found out..."

My WS and I were married 6 years ago. We are now both 29 and have been together since we were 15. IMO we were very happy until I recently found out she was having an EA. We have no children.

Over the last 3 years she has been in graduate school and graduated in December. She got a job as a science teacher starting in January. She had a co-teacher in the room with her for special ed students. This teacher is the MOM.

D-day was July 13th. WS went on a school sponsored trip (conference to Las Vegas) with MOM and around twenty other teachers on June 10th-14th. At this point our marriage seemed great. I had no idea that we had any major issues. Of course we had our occasional arguments but nothing unusual. Since the time she came back from this trip she has been very cold toward me and would not tell me what was wrong. She went out a few times staying out all night at one of her friend’s houses. She has never done this before. After numerous attempts to talk to her about what was going on I decided to find out for my self. She was staying up late almost every night on the computer. At first this did not seem unusual since she did not have to work over the summer. I placed a keystroke recorder on the cpu and found out through IM’s to her friends and the MOM what was going on.

Apparently on the trip he confided in her that he was thinking of divorce and they started talking about his relationship and then eventually about ours. They spent several evenings going out to bars while on this trip and eventually exchanged phone numbers to continue talking once they came back. I have since found out that they spent almost everyday together from June 15th - July 13th. According to my wife they never had any physical relationship but from her IM’s it was not far away. They did hug and kiss from what she has told me. To me it appears they were on step 14 of the 15 steps to Infidelity.
I was logged in on her IM when the MOM sent her a note. I responded and made it clear I was aware of what was going on and for him to stay away from my wife. I then went and woke her and confronted her about the situation. Of course she right of the bat denied that anything was going on. After telling her I had read the messages she admitted to going to lunch with him, but nothing else. She did not know what all I had read and how much I already knew. She had told her friend that she had contacted an attorney and was already making plans to spend time with the MOM after our divorce. After talking(arguing) it over for several days she agreed to cancel the next appointment with the attorney and call MOM to tell him they could not see each other anymore. We went a few times to marriage counseling but she has since stopped going. She wants to see someone on her own instead of us together. I found out on July 31st that she had put a deposit down on a deposit on her own apartment and wants to move out. This IMO was her trying to get me to agree to a divorce. I firmly disagree with divorce and do not want to go that route. I love this alien very much and want our marriage to work more than anything in my life. I have continued to go to the marriage counselor but she still will not go. Her parents have agreed to support her I what ever decision she makes through this. I do not think she has given the whole story to them about the MOM.

I have read a lot on this site and need a little help. She claims that she has not seen or spoke with this MOM for 3 weeks. My problem with that is on July 31st they started back to school. She claims that he is on the other side of the school now and they will never see each other. I find that hard to believe or to deal with. I have asked her to ask for a transfer or for him to ask for one. She said that neither can do that now that school is back open. They have to sign contracts. She would lose her teaching certification if she quit this job and would not be able to teach again.

She told me on July 31st that she had put a deposit down on an apartment and was moving out on August 12th. I was very hurt and upset. She went though he house and wrote down all of the items she wanted to take with her and how she wanted the bills to be split up. I was devastated and told her that I would contact her parents and school to advise of the EA if she moved out. I feel that her moving out is the last stage before her filing for divorce. She tells me the usual things I have read on her like “I love you but I am not in love with you”. I find this hard to believe as just two months ago we had little problems.
As far as her moving out she has not told me what her decision is right now. I am confused and do not know what to do. I am sure that I have left many things out so post a message and I will answer asap. Almost every day is a roller coaster. One day she is willing to try to save our marriage the next she is not. Please help me save our marriage.

wait for people to help
dont give up yet your story is just like everyones and itll work just hold on for the pros here

Wilson,

Okay - I'm no expert, but INVESTIGATE AND EXPOSE!!!! It should be easy for you to flush this out since they both work in the same school and have (presumably) the same principal/boss. Find out everything you can about him discreetly. Make a list of both your married friends, family members with influence over her, her associates, your pastor/church leader, his family etc. This is the most critical step to put pressure on the relationship. It should blow up at the workplace and it may cost jobs, but that is not your concern, since this is not your doing. Let the consequences of infidelity fall on the infidels.

Second thing. Don't believe her when she says it hasn't gone to PA. It is extremely hard to prove, but it is likely that it already has. It hurts but it doesn't really matter, as she's already thinking about a life with OM and without you. Get over it and Plan A - be the best man you can be and don't let her see you sweat, beg, or plead... Prepare to let her go and get prepared to be her confident, strong, and forgiving savior when it blows up in her face. This is the hardest part and it will take longer than you think it will. A lot longer... trust me.

The rule of extraordinary precautions will require her to move, transfer, quit, whatever to get away from him. That is a way down the road, as the most critical steps to take now are to snoop and expose, while putting on your best face and meeting her needs like you did when you were engaged.

All I am and will become in Him,

Welcome to MB, sorry you're here.

My friend I think you've got more than an EA on your hands. A week in Vegas? Coming back very cold and staying out all night "at a friend's house"? Ready to move out?

Gather evidence. Install a keylogger on your computer. Watch the cell phone records. Install a voice activated recorder in her car.

Don't wait until she moves out to expose. I would expose NOW, or at least in a few days once you've got some evidence. Expose to her family/friends, your family/friends, her boss and coworkers, your church if you have one, and the OM's wife. Whether they are divorcing or not is irrelevant; OMW needs to know. The more people know about the affair, the more people can put pressure on it and kill the affair.

You need to make yourself the more attractive choice for your WW. This is plan A...aka 'winning your spouse back'. This does not mean being a doormat! I'll let the experts fill you in on that.

Those things said, take my comments into account, but wait for other smarter people to show up. They will likely have better or more complete suggestions.

i think bitbuckets right my wife denied the affair to the bitter end actually getting insulted id evven ask that.
then i caught an email of hers to the om sayin i know he knows about everything now so get prepared its gonna get ugly

((Wilson))

Have you talked to your W's parents? If you are only hearing what she tells you, I would start becoming a little more vocal about how much you want to save the M and what the "real deal" is.

Who else knows about MOM besides you?

Have you been in Plan A?

I understand the teacher thing... I work in a school as well. That's quite the pickle.

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but if your W is moving out it's because she wants to be with MOM. Does he have kids? Have you thought about talking to his W?

My heart is breaking for you, WK... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

wilson,

I will spend my time speaking only of the financial implications of what you have written given the time frame.

Do NOT let her dictate property, monies, furniture or terms to you. If she is a mortgage holder, signor on any lease, credit card etc., you must freeze those accounts immediately!!

DO NOT accept any debt payment from her that is one penny less than 50% REGARDLESS OF WHO IS USING THAT DEBT. You will be tempted to make excuses for her due to pity or mistaken feeling of love, there are NONE for her actions.

You have a very unique opportunity to show her the realities of her decisions. Please do not waste it.

Best of luck

Wilson

Glad you made it over here. I see you've received some good responses and I hope you've read a bunch and internalized a lot of Harley's concepts.

So what is your plan???

Mr. Wondering

OK here goes. Tonight I got home from work and she had found this website in the history for the web browser from last nights reading. She read probably everything that I did. She confronted me about it. I advised her that I love her and want our marriage to work. She was more concerned with me contacting her family, friends and work. I told her that I was going to call them that I wanted the affair to end and for us to go to counseling to work on us. She told me that if I called anyone that she would file for divorce tomorrow. I disregarded what she said and contacted her father. We spoke for about 30 minutes and as I suspected she had not been truthful to them either. However they are standing behind their daughter to make her own decisions. While I was in the other room she deleted all of her close friends off of the cell phone to make it difficult to me to find their phone numbers. I was able to get in contact with one who knew we were having problems and was willing to help me anyway she could. Another I spoke with put me off and said she need to go but would call back in a few minutes. She of course she did not call back. I am still looking for more contacts. My main concern is contacting her work. This to me is the hardest. They still see each other there daily and I do not see how our marriage can work with that. However, she will never forgive me if I jeopardize her career. I think this might push her too far. I love her more than she will ever know and do not know if I can risk that.

I tried to call MOM’s wife but he answered the phone. I ask for her but he said she was unavailable. I am sure he has caller ID and knows it was me. As far as other people all of my close family and now her parents know about the A. A handful of her friends I reached tonight and a few of mine are aware. As far as the finances I am not overly concerned. I have already removed her from any account in my name. Most all major bills are joint accounts. House/car/truck etc. Furniture and most household property I do not really care if she takes it or not. I am more concerned right now on trying to save things rather than who gets what.

BTW: the "i'll lose my job" thing is total smoke. If she's a public school teacher, and you arent living in rural indiana or something (no insult to indiana intended <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> then it is easy for her to get a transfer to another school. It normally has to be before the start of a new term to make it easy. But if she WANTED to make it happen, and told the appropriate people it was critical for her marriage/whatever, she could make it happen.

Hi:)...really sorry you are here:(...take a deep breath and know that you are in the right place...the advise here is without question priceless...make sure you are true to yourself though in personalizing it...i agree with everything said here....I SMELL A SKUNK!!!...continue to gather your info, get all the facts strait, and continue to expose...it works!...maybe call the school board first and just ask about the general policy as it pertains to workplace relationships... I definitely WOULD speak to the principal of the school letting him/her know your concerns and wishes to save your marriage (don't disrepect by getting too emotional..just the facts!)...maybe he/she can be your advocate as far as planning workshops, etc in which your W and OM will be attending....spector sof offers a great accountability program for your puter for around $90 ...get your cell phone bill itemized with all the calls that are made (there's your access to the phone #'s)...continue to call MOM's home...his W has to answer at some point!!...again be respectful but honest...oh yah, almost forgot...continue to be firm but loving to your W...after all it is her you love...her decisions you detest...but underneath it all there are some EN's not being met somewhere...figure those out and you will unlock many mysteries...I know your emotions are unstable right now but you seem to be on the right track!!...keep up the good work!!!...j [color:"purple"] [/color]

i am a special education teacher in a public school. transfers WITHIN the school system are allowed and will not cause you to lose your job or your liscense.

your wife should go to her administrator and explain the situation and ask for a transfer.

it's not that she "can't"....she doesn't want to

the other end of the building is NOT far enough away...they WILL see each other

if she won't go and ask for a transfer.....you should tell her that you WILL go and talk to her princiapl and supervisor.

they ALL say they will divorce you "tomorrow" if you expose them

tell her that she has a choice.....choose to stop the affair, end all contact and request the transfer or she has choosen for you to expose to her work and ask for their support

Wilson,

I'm absolutely shocked that you are getting zero support from your W's family and friends.

Not ONE person is supportive of saving your M?

Has something happened in your M that would make them unsupportive? I'm not trying to be the bad guy here, but I just find this hard to believe.

During my A, the few family members/friends who knew about it thought I was out of my mind. If H knew at the time and called them, I'm sure they would have teamed up to knock some sense into me.

We don't have any children, either.

How are things going today?

Wilson,



So your interpretation of what I wrote is that I am concerned about who get's a couch?????????????? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Wilsonk,

Please read my entire thread!!! Your sitch is very much like mine was!!!!! Start with Thread #1 in my sig.....then Thread #2....then the current one on GQII! You will find alot of great advice throughout my entire ordeal!!!

And just a tease......My FWW and I are doing very well....we just "re-exchanged" our rings and vows last night!!!!

God bless,
MWIL

I am getting support from a few friends and all of my family but not exactly what I would like from her parents. They are taking the stance of they do not want to get in the middle of our problems. I think they are hurt now knowing about the A but they are still going to support their child. As far as her employer I still have not got the nerve up to call. I have tried a few times to call her HR department to see what the policy is on these type situations, but have not been able to get through. Even if I do I am not sure they will tell me. Last night after she blew up on me about this site, she left to go walking. She was gone about 2-3 hours. When she returned she did not speak to me other than to say what I was doing was causing our divorce. She did not speak to me this morning either. I am so confused and feel like I am making things worse. I am almost certain that she will be contacting an attorney today. I am desperate to make things work but do not know what to do. Obviously she had emotional needs that I was not meeting. She thinks I am controlling and unemotional. She has told me that for the last 15 years everything we have done has been a lie. For instance we always went to the lake on our boat, going on vacations, going to the mountains riding our four-wheeler/camping, watching certain TV shows, etc... Now she is telling me that she just told me that she did these things to make me happy and she really hated doing them. I told her that if I had known she did not like something that we could have done different activities that we both enjoyed. I feel like her not telling me these things has lead to her feeling controlled. I always wanted to do these things because I thought it made both of us happy. Now I see that the more we did these things the more controlled she felt. I feel as if the last 15 years of our lives has been a lie. I ask what her ideal vacation was and she could not tell me. I ask her what she enjoyed doing the most and again no answer. We have had a very good life financially. Honeymoon to Hawaii, went back two yrs later, a good vacation every year except when she was in school, etc... From what I have read and understand now I have given her everything except what she wants the most. Me to meet her emotional needs, but I feel like she is not giving me a chance. I had no idea of any major issues as she never acted like or told me anything was wrong. Obviously we have communication problems. She did tell me yesterday that she did not even want to speak with me until she moved out and did not want to have any contact with me after that.(after she found this site) Any suggestions would be appreciated…

Cymanca,

I do not think I misinterpreted your post. I have not let her dictate our money or property. I do not care if she takes the couch, love seat or the chair or any other household item. I have made certain that all debts jointly incurred are in both names. She did agree to pay ½ of all joint debt. I have frozen all accounts from future use that are in both names. I even removed my name from a credit card we opened up years ago that was in her name.

Wilson,

Your W is deeply in the fog. At the beginning of my A, I couldn't think of one good thing about my M with H. It was all a "sham." That is a BIG FAT LIE but your W's feelings are dictating her words now... she feels something for OM, and those feelings she once had for you have been transfered to him... she is not thinking logically right now, she is an addict.

I'm sorry that your W's discovery of MB made her want to end all contact with you (this is an excuse, by the way. Any excuse to sever all ties.) You would think that someone who was on a MARRIAGE BUILDING site was not looking to harm their spouse, but that's just the way the WS mind works. That being said, do you think she will continue to read your posts? That could be dangerous...

Since she is a teacher, is she home right now? I would keep trying to call OMW. She will be your ace in the hole as far as getting your W back.

I'm so sorry for all you are going through... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

I tried again this afternoon to call OMW and their home phone is disconnected. I just spoke with him last night. Should I go by their house and try and speak with her when he is not home? I have his cell phone number but have no idea about hers.

It is almost 5 am Sat am. She left me a vm that she was too drunk to drive home. She claims she is at friends house. I do beleive her but this is the third time she has not come home in our marriage. All three in the last four weeks. She will not pick up her phone or I would go pick her up. She was still stating tonight that she was done with our marriage and that she would never speak to me due to the contacts I made trting to stop A. I am still devestated. I have slept less than 20 hours in 3 weeks and can hardly function. I need serious help. Please advise.

U need to get some rest. Go visit with friends who will help you get some rest.

U have a WS in the house. That's like letting a strange stranger in your home. She looks like your W but she is NOT your W.

Also know that she babbles a lot which makes exposure a must do even for her work.

See a WS is unreliable. She is in the education profession which requires her t/b trustworthy. As a parent if I knew 2 teachers were having an A in my child's class, I w/b outraged.

When she babbles about getting the D. Let her. Let her know you are not going t/d her dirty work for her. Many a WS like to threaten a D then tell the BS to go do it for them. Don't. That's a ploy. You can get the D when u r ready.

Do what you need t/d and do it on your timeframe not her's. That will pizz off the WS and that should NOT stop you from doing what you need. Don't threaten or tell her what you w/b doing. WS' don't like t/b kept in the dark and that's the best thing for the BS.

Practice reverse babble to be safe. Don't take her guilt.

Secure your finances. Get meds from the doctor if needed. Call Jennifer C @ MB for some phone counseling. She will help you get a plan. Take the En questionnaire 1st. Take it 2 times, once as you and once as your W. Give the results to Jennifer with your 1st session.

take care,
L.

If you can't get through to expose at the school, go to the school in person, and expose.

Same with MOM's wife. Go there in person.

Don't be afraid of her threats. Is this the type of marriage you desire? If she wants to leave so bad, let her go. When she returns, you can decide if you want to remarry her.

Drive over to his house and knock on the door, wilson. DO NOT GIVE up until you speak to this woman. This may spell the quick end of the affair.

p.s I am very sorry to hear that her parents are immoral and don't care about their daughter. Even though they have abandoned her in her time of need, you don't have to. You can do this without their support. Just telling them about her affair caused great conflict in the affair and that is what you wanted.

Well this afternoon I walked by her pocket book in the kitchen. I could tell her phone was vibrating. It was the OM. I looked at the phone and sure enough they have been talking. I confronted her about it and she got violent. I took her phone and left the house. I called her parents and mine. I again got no support from them. Just the usual that they will have to support her in what ever decisions she makes. My parents on the other hand suggested now that I go Monday morning and get and attorney to start the D process. The worst thing about all of this is that I still today want to spend my life with her.

After driving around for a while she called me and advised she had packed enough items to do her for the week and wanted her phone back. As I said above earlier she put a deposit on an apartment and is planning on moving out all of her stuff next weekend. At this point I do not know what to do. I guess I am at the point there is not much left but to agree to file and end the marriage. However this is the last thing I want to do. Any thoughts…

You need to go by the MOM's house and talk to his wife in person. That is the one thing that will help your marriage the most.

Did you tell his wife yet? That is the most effective weapon you have right now and you MUST use it if you want to save your marriage.

Wilson stop trying to fix her... work on yourself. I know how you feel you want to save your marriage but you can't make that deciscion for her she will have to come to that decision by herself. It might take months it might never happen. You need to think about going to plan b if she moves out you need t protect your love bank

stay strong my brother

Wilson,

Do NOT file... let her do this herself. From what I understand (from reading these boards for a while) WSs rarely ever file, and try to get their BS to do it first.

If you want your M, don't do this!

How are things going today?

Wilson,

You can only fix and control you, stop trying to fix and control her.

Now the next thing you desperately need to do is contact OMW, go to their house and do it in person. It doesn't amtter if he is there or not. If he is there he will be combative, not a good thing when trying to disprove your assertions. If he's not, not a problem tell her and show her what you've got and let the chips fall where they may.

The key here is EXPOSE! Do not delay!

Yesterday I went to OM's house to speak with OMW. No one was home. I put a note on their door and on her car windshield to call me. I advised in the note that her H was having an affair with my W. A few hours later the OM left me a voice mail on my cell phone asking me to call him. I did not call him. I could not see any good coming from this conversation and felt that I may say or do things I would later regret. Shortly after that my wife called saying he had called pissed off at her and that he never wanted to see her again. Within a few minutes of that he sent me a text message again asking me to call. He threatened my wife to have a restraining order put on me if I did not call him back. I never called him back or received a call from OMW.

A couple of hours later I got a call from WW’s dad. He said that WW wanted to speak with me that she had a change of heart and wanted to come home. He asked that I call her for us to try and work it out. I did call her and she said that she realized now what she did was wrong and that she wanted to come back. We agreed that last night was not the best time for her to come over to talk, but this evening she is going to be at the house when I get home. I told her that first of all for this to work there must be 100% NC. I am not sure what I can do about that with them being in the same school. I told her that I feel strongly that I need to have contact with OMW so she knows the situation. WW did not like the idea as she thought that would provoke OM to be mad at her and insure he would come see her. I am conflicted about what to do.

As far as us moving into recovery… I think tonight I will ask her to write a NC letter to him and possibly see if she is willing to do the EN questionnaire. I do not want to do anything right now that she might consider a LB. I know she is going to be in withdrawal and want to be able to help her through it and get us back to the point of a wonderful, fulfilling marriage for the both of us. Any suggestions on what you think I should do would be great. Thank you all.

Good for you, Wilson!! I am so proud of you!!

Gee, I guess OM wasn't REALLY thinking about divorcing his W now, was he?

WS's lie, and OM lied to your W... hence his sudden decision to never want to talk to your W again.

Good work.

BTW, no WS wants to be exposed to OMW. It destroys the fantasy. It's interesting that she knew OM would be mad, no?

Another kudos for not talking to OM. Your instincts were right on that one... talking to him would do more harm than good.

As far as NC at work goes... that's tough. She could be transfered to another school within her district. Or, if she really gets serious about your M, she could be completely honest with the principal and ask if she could be let out of her contract.

You could also move.

Your WW is terrified right now. She had her dad call you. That must have felt a little strange.

When you talk to your W tonite, make sure and let her know you needed to tell OMW to save your M. That she means everything to you. Talk her into giving up her apartment.

This is going to get harder before it gets easier.

Hopefully others will chime in with more advice soon.

Again, good work! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Katie Mae

Wilson,

Good Job! She will have to do something about work, talking to the principal would be a good first step. Hang in there. You are doing fine.

Make sure you talk to OMW in person.

Don't rely on the words of liars that say she knows.

I see this also may be a ploy. You KNOW you still must tell OM's Wife. OM has likely told her it's over in hopes that she can get you to stop contacting his wife....however, when the dust settles he'll be right back in there trying to maintain his own affair addiction UNLESS his wife is keeping a watch over him.

Threats of restraining orders and the like are just that. Threats. He is only trying to stop you from exposing...like he's really gonna go to court and have you expose him there. There is nothing illegal about speaking the truth. Just be careful not to provide him with any ammunition by actually making any threats.

If wife comes home, be very open and supportive. She's likely to say the most mean and destructive things to you but have patience and take it. Listen, be measured with your responses and don't LB. If she raises her voice, you lower yours. If she yells, you whisper. Your only goal, right now, is No Contact and busting up the affair. After that, surviving a withdrawal period and separating OM and WW at work are the primary objectives. Thereafter, recovery can commence. Don't be needy or clingy and don't try to "teach" her.

You may not "think" her parents are supporting you...but behind the scenes I think they have been. Interesting that her dad called you to say she was coming home. They have been pressuring her to make a decision. That alone IS support. Not perfect support but good enough.

Keep posting.

Mr. Wondering

I got home last night and WS was there. She was asleep on the couch so I did not wake her. She finally woke up around 7:30 and I cooked dinner for us. We ate with very little being said. After eating she told me that we needed to talk. The first thing she said was that I must not contact OMW. This turned into the only real thing we spoke about. Over 4 hour’s worth. I have to say I wasn’t very good at not LB’ing. However, I stayed calm and tried to be understanding but told her that I was going to contact her as I felt it was necessary for the survival of our marriage. I tried to reassure her how much I loved her and how much I wanted this to work. She got to the point of saying or doing anything for me not to contact her. She is now saying that if I continue to try and get in contact with her that she is without a doubt moving out on Sat. I do not want this but I do feel the OMW deserves to know. I think it may be the only thing right now that may keep OM away from her. WW told me last night that they both blow up at each other on Sunday and told each other that they never wanted to see each other again. She also states that they had had NC from July 13 – August 4th. When I went through her cell phone on Sat I could not find anything to dispute what she is telling me. WW told me that he put some information in her mailbox yesterday at school to threaten me again with a restraining order. I tried to explain to her that the order did not bother me as I had done nothing wrong and would love to have the opportunity to expose him in court if he wanted to go that route. We did discuss a NC letter and she was receptive to this. She said that she had told him all those things on Sunday and would be glad to send it in a letter. (She thinks I only want to do that so his wife would see it) In talking to her she is still in a deep fog. She makes no sense and said many things to try and hurt me. I felt like this was an about face from the conversation we had late Sunday night(her wanting to come home), but I understand she has a lot going on right now that does not make sense to her. With the exposure to family and friends and trying to speak with OMW she thinks that I am psycho. She still does not understand that everything I have done and have been doing has been to try and save our marriage. I hope one day she will understand. One good thing was by the end of our conversation late last night I was able to make her laugh. I could tell that she enjoyed it and I did too. That was the first time I have even been able to laugh for a while. We never did the EN questionnaire since she was upset and agreed it was not the best time to do it. She did like the idea of doing it and I hope we can have a good conversation from it tonight. Thanks for listening and helping me through this.

wilson, the problem with delaying and forewarning the WS about exposure is that they can pre-empt you. As you can see, they are scared to death of your exposure because they know it will ruin the affair. The OM is not going to lose his wife and family for a quick thrill, and your W knows this.

The problem now, though, is that you have been pre-empted and it will be much harder to convince the OMW. They are READY for you. She likely has been told that you are an insanely jealous nutjob who imagines that his wife is sleeping with every man in sight. He will tell her that he and your W are "just friends."

So, be prepared to walk into a situation where your credibility has already been destroyed and come ready with lots of PROOF. This is exactly why it is a bad idea to DELAY and an even worse idea to FOREWARN. Hopefully, you can convince her, but just know that you likely have been preempted and plan on ways to overcome that.

When will you tell his wife? SOON, I hope. The sooner you tell her, the sooner the affair will die, I suspect.

Wilson,

Mel is right on target. She is the Exposure Guru, please follow her advice, no deviations. Also expose to the school and school board if needed. Exposure is the only way to end the A. DO NOT BE AFRAID! You will be threatened by WW and OM, DO NOT WORRY, they can do nothing to you, except play on your kindness and hope you stop exposing their A. In the end you will be rewarded. It's true, just read some of the stories here and you will see it. You will be villified, but after the fog clears and withdrawl is over you will be the hero.

Now, go do what you know you have to do!

Wilson

My STBXW (WW) swore on her Grandmother's grave that she was through seeing the OM. Guess what, she lied. The OM swore to me that he would leave my wife alone twice, guess what he lied. My WW's friend told me the affair was over, guess what she lied and then bought my WW a secret cell phone in her name.

I have little doubt that if I could have found out about the A sooner (didn't find out until almost 6 months deep) and could have contacted OM's wife we would have had a better chance of surviving.

I would tell your WW that you from this point forward both in this case and all cases intend to be a man of integrity and someone she can respect and look up to. You are starting by doing the right thing by the OM's wife.

She has been home now for two days and things are probably worse. Basically everything she told me Sunday night when she wanted to come home has turned out to be a lie. She told me several things like; she was remorseful for what she had done, she wanted to go back to MC, she would send him a NC letter, she missed being at home with me, etc…

She has refused to go to MC yesterday with me; she only wants to bring up me trying to contact OMW. She is saying that if I continue trying to contact her she will move back out on Sat. She has done nothing over the last two days but saying and doing things to try and hurt me. She has not given me a chance to try and be a loving husband. Last night I took her out to a nice restaurant to eat and she did not want talk about anything but why I would want to ruin OMW life. She now realizes that OMW probably has no clue what is going on. I have made it clear that I will contact her regardless and she just keeps saying that I am betraying her. This sets me off given what she has done to me. I got upset with her last night but tried to also tell her that I love her and want our marriage to work. She just keeps telling me how could it work if you can’t do the one thing I ask of you.(Not contact OMW)

At this point I am frustrated, hurt, tired, betrayed and devastated all at the same time. I know this time is also hard for her but she keeps trying to hurt me and I do not know how much longer I can take the pain and then turn around to try and tell her how much I love her. I feel as if she is such a deep fog that she may never come out and I do not know if I can handle the pain until or if she does. It seems like everyday or almost every hour she is back and forth with what she wants. One minute she claims she wants to stay with me and work on our marriage and the next she is still moving out and filing for divorce. I am having a tough time with being appealing to her when she does nothing but continue to hurt me.

She agreed to do a NC letter but still has not done it… I have made numerous attempts of contacting OMW but they have been unsuccessful. I have considered sending a certified letter with the restriction that only she can sign for it. I am not sure if that will work or not. I do not know where she works or have any way to contact her other than driving to their home. He is usually home before she is. I think exposing at her work would be the end of our marriage for sure and she will not even think about asking for a transfer or telling her principal. How can I get through this…

This is another lie designed to protect her affair.

wilson, get in your car and drive over there and knock on the door. Even if the OM is there, you can tell the OMW while he is right there. Can you be in his presence without punching him? If you feel you might have a problem with that, it would be best to take a friend.

But, get this over with. Go over there and do it.

Kill the affair, wilson!

Take the friend and have the friend knock on the door. Have him "appear" to be a salesman or something innocuous and you step out only upon knowing OMW is there. OM is likely to call the cops or go ballistic immediately. Be prepared to defend yourself peacefully. The police will not believe you meant peaceful confrontation if you bring ANY sort of weapon. You are on HIS property...you will be presumed the instigator of any confrontation. Be careful.

Perhaps catching her in the morning leaving for work??

BTW...wasn't your wife reading here previously???? Is she still reading and forewarning OM about this stuff???

As much as you hate the fog...it will continue indefinitely as long as you maintain the secret from OMW and allow contact at the school. It may really suck exposing her at work and seem to be the last straw but it IS the only way to save your marriage in the long run.

Mr. Wondering

Thank you for responding Mel and Mr. W. I will go by this afternoon after work and see if I can talk to her.

My wife found this site and many other marriage sites that I was going too. I do not think she knows that I posted here. She has been a little skeptical about using the computer since I confirmed the affair using a keystroke logger.

OMW was not at home this evening. So I was unable to speak with her today.

My WW ask within a few minutes of me getting home today if I had changed my mind about telling her. I told her that I still intended on telling her. She says that she is still moving out on Sat. then. (She has not packed anything else since last weekend). I want her to stay more than anything and do not think our marriage will ever work if she moves out. I do not think I could ever trust her again if she does. I have got to the point of telling her to make her own decisions just understand that if she moves out I can not see or talk to her anymore. I do not think I can handle it with her not here.

She is making an idle threat to prevent you from interfering with her affair. You are more likely to lose her if you don't bust up this affair. Can you go by his house in the morning? I really wish you would stop telling your W you plan on doing this. Maybe let her think you are putting it off.

Exposure works. Well, it hasn't worked for me yet, but I think I am beginning to see some cracks. Even other people are seeing the cracks so I know I am not being delusional.

Stop putting it off. You have a MORAL obligation to tell the OMW.

You can handle her moving out, and you will handle it. It is going to SUCK! But, know that you are not alone and that many other BS's have or are going through the same thing. If your Plan A is stellar and she has noticed then distance may not be bad, but rather reality is about to bite their fantasy in the [censored].

If you don't bust up the affair ala MB principles, and do it now, what do you think will happen?

She is having an affair! She is sleeping with another man!

You want to know what will not work: DESPERATION: Whining, crying, pleading IS NOT ATTRACTIVE. Why would she dump someone that makes her "happy" for someone with no self esteem.

She needs you to command respect. To be confident. Use the tactics the OM uses. (ie My WS's OM said that she should leave him and be w/ her fam. How NOBLE of him, to be miserable so she can be happy. Counterattack: Me: Your happiness is more important than anything I feel...it always has been."

See?

If you want to be a tad sneaky about it (and I sometimes get shot down for these hairbrained ideas...but my feeling is/was "alls fair in love and war")...I have an idea.

Perhaps suggest (but never actually agree yourself) a compromise. Indicate that you'd consider an agreement to not expose if she agrees never to speak to OM again (edited to strike out "and not move out" don't mention this as she'll see this as your achilles heal in the future with which to actually manipulate you...stick to the NO CONTACT BARGAIN ONLY). Instead of ever agreeing, just keep working at details like...you won't take his phone calls, you'll walk away from him at work, any email sent from him will not be opened, Etc.

This has the advantage of keeping OM and WW from being forewarned and forearmed. You most definitely DO the exposure anyway. Once exposed, most likely, very, very soon thereafter...WW willfind out about it and blow up...but, how exactly did she find out about the exposure unless she spoke with OM and broke her promise???.

Technically, it's a double breach. Oops. Bygones. However, remember...you just suggested it. You never "agreed" to it. She'll want the deal soooo bad she'll just presume agreement. WS's are easy marks...they are so focused on their addiction...logic and common sense fly out the window. Once the exposure is done, you can't put the genie back in the bottle and mmmmm, besides, honey, you thought we did have an agreement and you broke your end of the bargain. Glad I never promised...sure was a one way promise.

Sure she will still be angry and upset but you're a husband...I'm betting you can play niave for a couple nights and take the hit. No need to apologize other than the "I'm sorry you feel that way" stuff. Listen and take it for a few days...it WILL pass. As you've been told. Marriage survives anger, conflict is better than withdrawal but your marriage can't survive a continued or resumed adulterous relationships. Busting it up is the first step.

This may also buy you some space and time to find and expose to OMW without constant harassment and attempts at manipulation. Perhaps even get you through the weekend without wife moving out. If you are having trouble with weekdays, perhaps bright and early Sunday morning may be a good exposure day. Set up your fake "plans" for sunday morning tomorrow so as to appear legit.

It's a bit of a stunt...sorry if it's not you.

Mr. Wondering

p.s. - To monitor for contact have you reviewed the spying 101 thread????

I made contact with OMW's mother in another state. She said that she was aware that they were having problems but that her daughter was not aware of an affair. She stated she would give my number to her and let her make the decision if she wants to call me to discuss. I gave her enough detail that I think she will.

As far as giving my WW the heads up about trying to contact OMW, she has been asking me daily. I do not want to lie to her and tell her that I am not going to speak with OMW. I think right now in our marriage I need to be as honest to her as I can be. I do not think I could tell her that I was not going to contact her and then turn around and do it anyway.

I know as soon as OM finds out he will contact WW but it is my thoughts and beliefs that I need to speak with her for me to be at peace. I am ready to take the hostility I will get from WW. I can only hope and pray that I am strong enough to continue telling her that I love her and want to spend the rest of my life with her. I am terrified that she will move out. I want her to stay and us work on our marriage together. Thank you for the help and support.

As others have pointed out, if and when you talk to OMW, make sure you have hard proof. Emails, cell phone bills, credit card records, anything....print it out. Right now your WW and OM know you want to expose, so they can pre-spin you as a nutcase who is jealous of their innocent and virtuous friendship.

Make sure you have multiple hardcopies of everything...email has this funny way of getting deleted. Hide hardcopies somewhere WW doesn't have access to, like your office at work.

I definitely second MrW's comment about the spying thread. Read it. Live it. Phone recorders and voice activated digital recorders are your friend. A GPS bug on your WW's car will tell you where she's been and when...upgrades can give you real time information but cost more.

Have you exposed at their work yet?

((Wilson))

I understand the logic behind telling your W you were going to contact OMW... I agree it's important to be honest.

For the future, you could always say something like, "I love you and will do whatever it takes to save our M." That way you don't have to reveal anything ,but you are reinforcing the fact that you are doing what's best for the M.

Good job calling OMW's mother!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> That took a lot of guts. Let us know how that pans out.

Your strength and perserverence are inspiring... I hope your W eventually wakes up and realizes what a gem she has in you.

KM

It seems so tough. Some days you will want to rage, some days you will want to cry. The only side you should show WS is Plan A side. Cry in private or with those who support you. You have told your fam, right? They are the best support you can get, though their advice often goes against MB principals.

You can always get a divorce, meaning, there is no reason to rush one.

If she walks out, make sure she understands that once out, she no longer lives there. Pack up her clothes, there is always storage (that she can pay for). IE: Change mailing address, get her off the deed, kids? demand child support because they are STAYING WITH YOU. Mine are.

These things are the opposite of desperate. You are pulling away from her (or so it will seem to her) and she may not be wanting to let go yet.

Good luck and keep your head up.

This is how I read your WW reluctance for the OMW to know.

So let’s say she is honest in the affair being over. Let’s assume WW and OM will observe NC and keep off the nookie. In what way will it harm your WW if OMW knows? How will it affect her and her life? If she was truly over OM then in no way at all.

So by keeping OMW in the dark there is an opening. An opportunity. Let things cool down. Maybe even give the marriage a shot, maybe just ease the conscience, maybe just get some money set aside, maybe get the kid’s a little older to handle D…

Therefore I do not see her being committed to your marriage right now – although conditions have possibly caused OM to be “less committed to the affair” at the moment. So she is “suffering” being with you as a sacrifice to the “love” she has for Mr. OM.

Expose. Don’t stop at OMW. I would say expose at their place of work. If she moves out then so be it. The odds are highly stacked in your favour if you follow the MB principles.

If you have to protect her affair to keep her there, then you don't have a marriage anyway, wilson, because she only protects it for ONE REASON. And like bigger pointed out, that reason isn't GOOD. The only reason she wouldn't want the OMW to know is so she can leave an opening. That is why you have a much better chance of saving your marriage if you DO expose the affair. EVery opening you leave only endangers your marriage.

Well apparently it is now over. I came home today and she was packing. She asked me to sit and talk to her. She started the conversation by saying that she was moving out no matter what I said or did. She said that she did not love me and could not see her self spending anymore time with me. She then started to bash me and all the things that I have done wrong in our marriage. After taking it for about an hour I finally blew a gasket and ask her to leave tonight if she had no intentions of staying. She said that she only told me what I wanted to hear Sunday night so she could come home and not have to go out and find a place to stay. I told her that moving out was the end for me that I could not offer her anymore of my heart for her to just trample it.

I can not believe this is the woman that I have devoted 15 years of my life too. I have supported her through everything she has ever wanted to do. I have loved her and honored her. I have been so proud of everything she has accomplished. How could she treat me this way in a two month time frame?

I love her but I can not stand to be around her right now the way she is. I want my wife back… Should I start plan B? Should I speak with her anymore? I do not know now after all the things she has said and done if I can ever forgive her and I know I can never forget. I think tomorrow I am going to have to break down and go the doctor for AD’s.
I can not even think straight to type this post.

wilson, you will be ok, I promise you. I know it doesn't seem that way now, but we can help you through this. This is far from over. No, you shouldn't start Plan B. You have much work to do. But what you need to do right now is calm down and relax and just know that we can help you through this. You will be OK, my friend, I promise you this.

What she has said is FOG TALK and REVISIONIST HISTORY. I am a BS. You want to hear some of the odd things my WW has said:

ME: Is this relationship worth losing your kids?
WW: Maybe.

ME: We need to get your name off the deed and change your address. (She lives with OM)
WW: Why are you pushing me away?

WW: I don't love you. I never was happy. I love you as a friend.
ME: (calm, collected) You know those aren't true. You have been VERY happy except for lately. You DO love me.
WW: Yeah, I know I was...(insert revisionist fog talk here.)

WW: It's over.

ME: You know, just because you live with him doesn't make it alright.
WW: But our relationship is over, I am with him now.
ME: NOBODY sees it that way.

Think of her as an alien that is incapable of rational communication and FOCUS ON YOURSELF. Plan A. The A is young. Good thing you grabbed it FAST!

It is going to burn intensely, but it will die.

Be patient and know that people are here for you and you are not alone.
BTW Plan B doesn't work unless you have done a stellar Plan A AND she has noticed that you are changing for the better.

Tonight I was finally able to speak with OMW. She did not know about the A. I guess that I already knew that. I hated to tell her the horrible news but I could not think of her not knowing any longer. We talked for close to an hour. I gave her as much detail as I could remember of what I had discovered over the last several weeks. During our conversation OM came home or in the room she was in, so I am sure that they are discussing all we spoke of. I guess we will see what comes of tomorrow with WW and OM.

I told OMW about this site so I hope she can read up and prepare herself for the days ahead. Thanks to all for your support.

Good job Wilson

Have faith that right is right...

There can never be anything wrong with doing right

take care of yourself --- eat well, exercise and sleep...

your gonna need energy for after the storm passes

ACT, Don't React...

WW's actions should be foreseen and understood as the actions of an addict. You can't control anything but yourself.

Good luck,

Mr. Wondering

wilson, good job about telling the OMW about the affair. Did she explain why their phone had been diconnected?

I would also strongly consider exposing them at school if you plan on killing this affair.

Hope you are feeling better today. There is hope, wilson.

Wilson,

I would hope you expose to school and school board. I would not want your WW or OM in the same room as my children and definitely not in a position of authority over them. Right now they are morally bankrupt, have no values and certainly no redeeming social value. This is not what I would want my children exposed to. They get enough already from friends who are living through their parents divorce and Affairs. They certainly don't need it from a teacher! If you allow this to go unreported you are part of the problem not the solution or cure for the crime! Hang em High!

Wilson,

I'm proud of you for not giving up, despite your W's nastiness and threats. I can't imagine how hard this must be for you.

Did your W end up leaving? Thorstein is right... she is fog babbling, big time. Don't believe for a minute that she wanted to come home last weekend because she didn't have a place to stay... she is trying to justify her bad behavior and she is not herself right now... she is sick.

I agree you shouldn't give up and should continue with Plan A. Now that OM's W knows, this will make things VERY uncomfortable for your W and OM, especially at work. I think at some point you should inform the principal. I can't imagine any principal wanting two teachers in his school engaged in an A... especially in a high school. That looks bad, bad, bad to the community. Even if the principal just talks to them, it will have a tremendous impact on the A.

I think ADs are a good idea... they helped me tremendously. I'm so,so sorry for what you are going through. Let us know how you are feeling today. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Katie

Things are not going so well for me this morning. I got very little sleep last night again. I did call my family doctor today and have an appointment to go see him. (I can't keep functioning like this). My wife did leave last night and I do not expect to see her again until Sat. morning when she is to start moving out. Obviously I am pretty down today.

In talking to OMW last night I learned that OM had put a deposit down on his own apartment within a few days of my WW. In appears from the IM’s I caught with the key logger that this has been their plan for a couple of months. Both move out so they can spend more time together. OMW indicated that she was surprised last week when OM disconnected the phone. He did it suddenly and told her it was to cut down on the bills.

I have not called the HR director back at the school board but probably will today. I realize that our marriage has no chance if they are seeing each other daily at work. It may not help but I am at least going to try.

Please pray for me and OM’s W.

I spoke to the HR director. He basically told me that there was not much they could do other than make sure they did not teach in the same classroom. He did advise he would consult the board's attorney to see if possible to move one of them. It doesn’t sound like they much care about it as long as it does not effect the education of the students.

I did find this online:

“Standard 10: Professional Conduct – An educator should demonstrate conduct that follows generally recognized professional standards. Unethical conduct is any conduct that impairs the certificate holder’s ability to function professionally in his or her employment position or a pattern of behavior or conduct that is detrimental to the health, welfare, discipline or morals of the students.”

IMO the last part “morals of the students” should be clear cut. I guess they view it otherwise. I am not sure if there is anything else I can do but just sit back and wait to see what happens with WW and OM.

I am a teacher. Unfortunately for the kids (and I can think of one child of a teacher, in particular) affairs happen all too often in schools.

There is one going on within my department. It is known and the Administration does nothing about it.

It disgusts me.

Get a lawyer and bring a suit against the school board using the morals thing. However the [color:"red"] should [/color] might get ya.

Standard 10: Professional Conduct – An educator [color:"red"] should [/color] <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> demonstrate conduct that follows generally recognized professional standards. [color:"blue"]Unethical conduct is any conduct that impairs the certificate holder’s ability to function professionally in his or her employment position or a pattern of behavior or conduct that is detrimental to the health, welfare, discipline or morals of the students.” [/color]

This should help you but who knows. Good Luck! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Give the time to act upon your request then have your attorney send a letter to them reminding them of their own policies

Thank you for the advice but I am not interested in fighting with the school board. I just want my wife back.
I guess I will just see if they call me back. I have a feeling I will get a call from my WW this evening. I am sure her and OM have spoke today and she is upset with me for talking to OMW.

keep both dogs ... get a court order that YOU keep the dogs

Wilson,

Have you read any of Orchid's posts on reverse babbling? I will try and bump one up for you. Hopefully they will help you when you hear from your WW.

When are you seeing your doc?

KM

So far she has not called. Maybe she won't. I did see the doc today and he gave me AD's and a sleep aid.

I have read up on reverse babbling from Orchid's sig. I just get so tired of hearing it from her. Guess I am not to the point that it does not bother me anymore.

The dogs are mine, don't worry. I did get them both for her but they have become part of her bad memories in our newly rewritten history. She has not hardly even paid them any attention over the past few weeks. She used to come home from work and play with them for a couple of hours everyday. The last 24 hrs the dogs have been running around trying to find her and waiting at the door like she is coming home any minute. It breaks my heart to see them missing her too.

my ww loved my dog too always caring and wanting to rush home to see him but now when she stops by for some of her things i have to tell her to acknowledge him?
i guess when someone is in that state of mind they only care about 1 thing themselves it is selfish behavour and i hope both of our wives wake up soon good luck and keep fighting through

Wilson,

Hope you had a better sleep last night.

Are you taking care of yourself? Have you spent time with family and friends?

Keep letting us know how you're doing.

KM

I got an okay nights sleep. I took a sleep aid and slept from around 11-1 and then 3-6. WW said she would be here by 8am to move and it is now 10:10. They still are not here and no phone call either.

I will probably leave after they get here to move not sure if I can watch her move out. I will probably take the dogs and go to a relative’s house.

wilson, does she know what she can and can't take? I am sorry this day is here, but rest assured that it is far from over. We have seen far worse cases than this come back from the grave. So, don't give up hope.

The more she leaves behind the more "things" there are to miss. Plus when she "visits" in the future it needs to feel like home.

If I were you I'd stay to make it as uncomfortable and painful for HER as possible. Sure she'll attack you and try to get you to leave them alone but that's only an indication of HER pain. She is 100% responsible for such consequences. Let her comments bounce off you.

I'd make her leave everything and anything that could be considered joint...indicating slightly that the court will divide up "YOUR" stuff if there ever is an actual divorce. She should only be taking what is absolutely "hers". Try not to let her take a bunch of furniture.

While she's packing up stuff in rooms you may be cleaning up what to be YOUR place behind her. Maybe one particular room needs painting and you can indicate you're going to take this opportunity to paint it. Start emptying the rest of the room behind her to do so. Over the next few days and weeks fixing up the home will give you a good distraction, meet a need of your wife's, and let wife know you are not sulking and crying in bed like a wimp since she left. It's tangible proof that you are moving on possible and a little piece of wife won't quite like you being happy with her gone. When she see's it next it needs to be clean and different...YOUR place.

Do what you can. I understand how difficult this is. But the fight continues.

Mr. Wondering

She moved all of her stuff out today. She took most of our stuff. I did stay here to make it harder on her and her parents while moving. I do plan on doing some improvement projects in the next couple of weeks as I figure I will have no choice but to sell the house.

I learned tonight that OM is already in his apartment. OMW kicked him out after I told her about the A. I can only hope that is not were WW stayed the last two nights. WW ask me today before she left if I was done or if I still wanted to give it a chance. I told her that I still wanted her in my life but I could not deal with it is she was still seeing OM. She admitted to still talking to him but that was it. I found out later about him already being out in his apartment or I would have asked more questions.

In talking to OMW it seems that OM is trying to get her to take him back. My WW is just the opposite. She acts as if he hung the moon and I am dirt. Of course I do not know if WW knows OM wants to stay with his W. Also in talking to her is seems me and OM are pretty much opposite emotionally. I usually am not real emotional (except for the last month) and he usually is.

When the OM is exposed, he usually tries like crazy to get his wife back. I hope you told her about MB.

You did well in exposing to her. He will be wanting his wife back, and more afraid to continue the A. That is what you want.

It is very early in all of this. Sit back and watch.

It’s poker time.

If your WW war really over you why should she ask you whether you were done or not? It’s just like trying to bluff your way out of a bad hand. In all tough negotiations it’s a basic rule to be in a position of power – to be in control of the proceedings. I think that is what your WW is trying to create; a position where she can dictate the terms of your marriage.

Rather than sink into dark thoughts about whether WW was with OM for the last couple of days then have in mind that OM Is probably trying all he can to save his marriage. Therefore the odds are heavily in your favour that WW is alone. Even if he is with her, there is little you can do to stop that right now.

I agree that you should not focus too much on the school since the HR dept is not willing to do much. How about extending the exposure ring? How about the PTA, friends and so on?

Just follow the MB principals. Read MyWiffeILove’s story for guidance and inspiration. Listen to Mr. Wondering. Take care of you and

WW sent me a text message a couple of hours ago. "Thinking of you, call if you want". I am so confused by her. Yesterday she moves out and today she is thinking of me??? This is driving me crazy. I have not called her. Any thoughts...

Your W is out of her mind... remember, she is like a drug addict... she is not herself and is completely irrational.

She says "call me if you want." Are you in Plan A or B? I wouldn't call her if I were you... remember, she said "if you want." Mabye... for your sanity... you don't want to.

Let her think a little bit about what she's missing. This is very good. You are the comfort of home, and she is in a strange place right now. She is confused and alone... all by her doing. Let her think about this.

Don't respond to silly messages like the one she sent you. If, however, she seems serious about fixing things, re-establish your boundaries. She must stop working with OM, she must go to MC with you, she must move back home.

Remember how folks here said this was just the beginning? Here you go...

Did you visit your relatives today? How are you feeling?

Have you changed the locks on the house???

Putting a for sale sign in the yard is eventually a good idea. Start working on fixing it up as though you do intend to sell it rather quickly. Remember to act happy not sappy. Say "yeah, I'm taking the opportunity to get some things done here I've been meaning to do...to get the place ready to sell". You want her preoccupied with what your thinking and doing not vice versa.

Time for a new haircut and some new clothes. Anytime she sees you, you should be perfectly put together and smell good. However, you hardly notice and shrug off any compliments keeping secret as to why your appearance has changed. When she does suggest a meeting appear to check a schedule and think about ALL you have to do.

Someone link Wilson to the 180 plan. This WW is ripe for some 180 changes. She wants Wilson to remain available while she attempts to get OM to leave his marriage. It's her last desparate attempt to maintain the addiction and if OM is pulling away to his wife and BH is seemingly pulling back a bit...can you say INNER TURMOIL.

Mr. Wondering

thats the best advice ive heard yet pretty smart mr w
if she feels shes losing power youve got a great shot at her waking up

Guys...it's really NOT about manipulation. This is not a power struggle but a battle inside of YOU and your marriage between good and evil.

When you TRY to manipulate the situation you are attempting to CONTROL it. You can NOT control an active wayward spouse. You can only control yourself and defeat the evilness and demons that are attacking you in this situation. You do 180 actions cause it's healthier for you and it may help attract your spouse back. It stops the bleeding of the relationship that happens when you're behaving needy, desparate and insecure. It's assuming control of your emotions to better be able to weather the storm circling around you and your family. In conclusion, it's a leap of faith and internally saying "NO" to infidelity....I am good enough, smart enough and dang nabbit...nobody is taking my spouse away from me without a calm, rational, well-conceived fight.

When you begin to control your own emotions and actions, you begin to shape the battle field in your favor. The dynamics change. Your WS begins to be concerned about you. Such concern has negative effects on her affair relationship (OP begins to become insecure and needy). And, finally, YOU begin the healing process you may need in the extreme case this all doesn't work out.

Mr. Wondering

Hmm.... For the first time ever I’m not completely in line with Mr.Wonderings advice. Although for the most part I agree then I feel that moving too fast might also send a signal of “I’m over you and don’t care any more”.

One thing that always amazes me is how long Dr. Harley encourages people to stick to Plan A. Way past the period I would think a marriage has past the “best before” time. Some cases that come to mind would be DazedandConfused and MyWifeILove. Both went through hull and back several times but stuck to Plan A with slight periods of Plan B... Both eventually recovered their marriages.

I would suggest you read these guy’s stories. I would also suggest you find the text about the carrot and the stick of Plan A (I think Pepperband wrote that). By all means move on, don’t be needy and deposit into the LB but don’t push her away.

WW called me late last night saying that she missed me and wanted us to try. She is saying again that she told OM that she can no longer see him. This is the same thing she told me last Sunday... She wants me to come to her apartment tonight to eat dinner with her and talk. I am going to go I am just afraid that it will be just like last Monday when she came home and was just as cold as when she left.

that's really good news, wilson.
Some WS's really do have a change of heart when they are in that current situation, from what I read. Dont try and get yourself down with paranoia about "what if she...?"
This really could be the start of recovery for you both.

Some may disagree with me, but I think the worst thing you could do, would be to not open your hand to her now, if she is truely reaching out to you.
It can be a "cautious" hand... you shouldnt just say "ok all is forgiven come on back in ths house". that would be very bad too. But remember, the whole point of "plan A", is to show a safe place for her to come back to, for if and when she wants to choose it.

Give her that opportunity to choose.

(and if she does, dont be surprised by things like the usual withdrawal period!)

Wilson,

You have nothing to fear except a life of crumbs if you do not take the bull by the horns. Your call, Your Choice.

It helped me to realize she was already gone, so nothing to lose there. Nothing to fear!

She had already made a choice, nothing to lose there. Nothing to fear!

Winning her back through deeds and gestures, being me, whole and complete, only controlling myself and understanding I can control no-one but me.

Nothing to fear from the above as it's already happened, so do your best, put your best foot forward.

Good Luck and Hang in there!

Mr. W. said:

"Guys...it's really NOT about manipulation."

Mr. W., do you think I was advising Wilson to manipulate his W? From my perspective as a FWW, his W is deep in the fog and he should not respond to silly little messages like the one she sent him. His W, in my opinion, needed to spend the first night on her own in her new apartment without the comfort of Wilson... she needed to experience what she was missing.

However, if she had reached out to him in a different way (instead of texting "call me if you want"), my advice would have been different.

Wilson, Mr. W. gave you excellent advice... keep working on you, your house, etc. Be strong, take care of yourself... this will work in your favor, even if things don't work out between you and your W.

Your W misses you when she leaves... this is very good. Home is just not home without you. I understand your weariness... I would worry too, because of what happened last weekend. I'm glad you're going to her place. Bring something with you, like a dessert or a nice bottle of wine.

Hopefully more folks will chime in with advice... I only have the FWW perspective and never moved out of the house. Your W's behavior is typical but hopeful... remain cautious!

KM....I was not referring to you at all. I think not calling was the right call that night.

Bigger...notice I said some "180 actions". I never recommend the full 180 plan over Plan A.

Wilson should remain fully in Plan A for now. I think he should meet her tonight and keep telling her he is fighting for his marriage. However, for a little 180 mix I believe during such meeting/dinner he could casually through in that he moved all the furniture out of the living room, dining room, bedroom...whatever and that he is setting out to paint it. WW's mind starts really humming (what is he doing, why is he doing that, is he moving on). Wilson's words only express that his marriage is his number one priority however, his actions bring to light that he is not going to sit around sulking and doing nothing awaiting WW's decision. Wilson can indicate that a couple of months from now WW will either be home enjoying with him the fix up work he's done or the house will be ready to go on the market. This is a subtle way to communicate that Wilson is a capable man (he fixes things), he's not laying in bed crying all day for WW, he's preparing to move on and able and willing to do just that in time. In essence, Wilson's entire being does not revolve around WW...she is what he wants...but he's not NEEDY and DESPARATE.

Besides...Wilson is on the roller coaster of infidelity. One day WW is nice and wants to reconcile. The next she's talking to OM and acting like an idiot again. Wilson can occupy his time in a healthy manner instead of incessant obsessing over WW. Especially if she continues to live on her own for awhile.

Wilson...my take on your current sitch. OM & WW believed that if you exposed to OM'sW that his marriage would be over. WW feeling guilty for ruining OM's marriage and desirous of maintaining her addiction felt loyalty to OM and was willing to move out and keep the affair going to comfort OM while he lost his marriage. HOWEVER, OM'sW is now apparently willing to give OM a chance. WW still moves out hoping to convince OM to stick to the plan of one day being together (the affair dream)...OM still says no, he is fighting for his marriage. So now, WW wants to come home or at least maintain YOU till something else changes. You must continue to press for No Contact and a transfer at work.

This may sound bad but it's not. You are NOT 2nd choice. You are her husband whereas OM is merely an addiction. It matters not how an addiction ends only that it ends (NO CONTACT). Then true recovery can commence after a short withdrawal period.

Good luck,

Mr. Wondering

Wilson,

Have you read Ark's lighthouse post?

~BE THE LIGHTHOUSE~


Your spouse is in huge conflict....

the good news is and the truth is that they are totally incapable of a healthy relationship with anyone right now...

the competition we believe that exist with the OP is a shallow empty reflection of Gods light in this world...

It is empty and lonely no matter how good the rush

their actions are actions that they themselves do not like in themselves right now....though the need to go back again again and attempt to prove themselves wrong or right is strong...they do not like what they are doing...

their actions towards you, the children, the OP, and themselves...keep them from engaging in any type of real interactions...with real depth and truth

all they offer are misguided attempts to fill the void that has appeared in their life...

yet the filling is way too fleeting to sustain them and the truth is with them each night he or she lays down regardless of whom is next to them....

they are the living cliche..of no matter where you go to hide...there YOU are...

he or she is lost to themselves...

and you stand at that point of being the lighthouse home....even though they create the waves that block their vision from seeing that...

You become the lighthouse..
you fill your home with light, calmness and sanctuary...

see just visualize yourself as a lighthouse...

Your offer them glimpses into that sanctuary at every chance you get...

you invite them towards it...let them know it is there as much as you can in a most subtle way....

they are untrustable right now...

but you know that...
so they can't hurt you right now...
they will spend great energy to convince others differently...but you know better...

you show the path by also protecting the children from their painful actions.....

set clear boundaries that the OP is not part of your childrens lives....

without lovebusting...
offer alternatives that let them see the children...but be clear that the OP is to have no access to them...

you fill the childrens lives with stability....they deserve it and need it more than anything else....

Do not discuss and or powerstruggle with them on irrational movements...

seek out and validate the rational ones with lots of praise for when he or she chooses correctly....

your spouse is very lonely and sad right now..but that is OK...

no one can stay very long in that chaos...it is wearisome to the soul...

and remove yourself from any aspect of participating or adding to the chaos...

and eventually they will see that you are the only one...

who stood with clarity and reason when they needed it most...

be the lighthouse....

Last night we had a good night. We went to dinner and talked most of the night. She told me that again she has told OM that she can no longer see him. I was guarded most of the night about these conversations as we did talk mostly about him, his W and our relationship. She seems to be hurt and upset with OM right now (he wants his wife back). In a weird sort of way this upsets me because I see how much WW loves him (or the idea of him). I would have thought if would have made me feel good for her to be mad at him but it did not.

As far as us, we talked about our future and how we could make things work. I gave her the book “SAA”, but I think she was a little reluctant to read it due to the title. She did indicate however that she would read it. She was also a little reluctant to write a NC letter to OM. I explained to her that it was something I really wanted and in the book there is a sample that may help. I think she will probably write the letter but she thinks it will prompt him to try and talk to her.

Last night I stayed at her apartment and we slept in the same bed. This is the first time this has happened in weeks. It felt so good to be able to hold her while we slept. Tonight she wants to come to the house, eat dinner and stay there. We discussed several things from making some changes at the house (painting, etc.) to moving and starting over somewhere else. Her job is still an issue for her since she signed a contract. It will be May before she can leave her job for another. Obviously a concern of mine is the contact she can still have with OM at her work. I am hoping that I am not on the same roller coaster that I have been on and getting ready to go back down.

I hope that this all means we are on our way through withdrawal but I guess only time will tell. Any thoughts???

wilson, I don't want to throw water on your parade, but this is rarely this simple and clean. Nor will withdrawal EVER take place until nc is instituted.

See, the OM is scared and has dumped your W for his W. FOR NOW. Your W is not done yet, though. She is still holding out hope that she can get the OM back. I would expect to see her continue to pursue him, at least for a while. This is VERY COMMON, though.

Your biggest problem is that she cannot withdraw if she is still working with him. As long as she continues to work with him, you are facing an on-again, off-again affair, I am afraid, making recovery IMPOSSIBLE. She can't withdraw if she still sees him there.

Nor would it make sense to ask her to send him a nc letter when she is going to have contact at work. This is something I would not cut corners on, wilson. We have numerous other LONG TERM affairs here because they ignored Dr. Harley's advice to end contact for life, even if it means a change of career or a move to another state.

Don't damn yourself to 5 more years of this!

Dr. Harley in Coping with Infidelity: Part 2
How Should Affairs End?


Never see or communicate with a former lover

Once an affair is first revealed, whether it's discovered or admitted, the victimized spouse is usually in a state of shock. The first reaction is usually panic, but it's quickly followed by anger. Divorce and sometimes even murder are contemplated. But after some time passes (usually about three weeks), most couples decide that they will try to pull together and save their marriage.

The one having an affair is in no position to bargain, but he or she usually tries anyway. The bargaining effort usually boils down to somehow keeping the lover in the loop. You'd think that the unfaithful spouse would be so aware of his or her weaknesses, and so aware of the pain inflicted, that every effort would be made to avoid further contact with the lover as an act of thoughtfulness to the stunned spouse. But instead, the unfaithful spouse argues that the relationship was "only sexual" or was "emotional but not sexual" or some other peculiar description to prove that continued contact with the lover would be okay.

Most victimized spouses intuitively understand that all contact with a lover must end for life. Permanent separation not only helps prevent a renewal of the affair, but it is also a crucial gesture of consideration to someone who has been through ******. What victimized spouse would ever want to know that his or her spouse is seeing or communicating with a former lover at work or in some other activity?

In spite of career sacrifices, friendships, and issues relating to children's schooling, I am adamant in recommending that there be no contact with a former lover for life. For many, that means a move to another state. But to do otherwise fails to recognize the nature of addiction and its cure.

<snip>

We don't know if R.J. still sees his lover, but he says he has broken off all contact. In many cases where a person is still in town, that's hard to prove. But one thing's for sure, if he ever does see his lover, it will put him in a state of perpetual withdrawal from his addiction, and make the resolution of his marriage essentially impossible. In fact, one of the reasons he is not recovering after three months of separation may be that he is not being truthful about the separation.

Entire article at: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5060_qa.html


Mimi wrote: Check this out from the How to Survive an Affair chapter in HIS NEEDS, HER NEEDS..one of my favorite pieces of reading material...

p. 177

...I have seen husbands build new and wonderful relationships with their wives but then go back to their lovers after five or six years of what appeared to be marital bliss. When I ask them why, they inevitably tell me they miss the woman terribly and still love her. At the same time they stoutly affirm they love their wives dearly and would not think of leaving them.

I believe a man like this has told the truth. He is hopelessly entangled and needs all the help possible to be kept away from his lover and stay faithful to his wife. I often recommend that a man once involved in an affair come in to see me every three to six months on an indefinite basis, just to talk about how things are going and to let me know how successfully he has stayed away from his lover. He must resign himself to a lifetime without her. HE MUST CERTAINLY NOT WORK WITH HIS FORMER LOVER AND SHOULD PROBABLY LIVE IN SOME OTHER CITY OR STATE. Even with those restrictions the desire for her company persists...

I strongly concur with Melody Lane

Cosigned

OM's Wife should be desirous of this also. If your wife won't go to the school trying to really push for a transfer maybe his wife can get him out of there. But, separate they must.

Also, again...don't fret over HOW the addiction ends only that it ends. Her so-called feelings for OM are not real they will only SEEM real to WW as long as OM remains real and present in her life. She can't withdraw and process this until all contact ceases. Even being in the same building is too much contact. Even if they don't talk...looking upon each other, speculating about what each glance means, obsessing over what he is thinking begs at least small contacts between the two of them. She will foreever beg and feel the need for "closure" and when they communicate to get "closure" they merely prolong the addiction with contact and then need "closure" again and again. It's just torture for both of them (and you and OM'sW) for them to be near each other.

Figure out a way...re-read the contract for an out.

Mr. Wondering

Two thoughts…

Statistically an affair is more likely to take place in a marriage where one or both spouses are unhappy. So really look into your marriage. Was there something that made WW have her affair? Something that enabled her to justify the betrayal?

Do not misunderstand this to indicate you are to blame for WW decision to have an affair. That is completely her fault.

Second: Since the HR dept is not willing to do anything would a talk to the PTA be a good idea? Pressure from parents to not have two teachers in an affair in the school?

Wilson...

Are you still around? How are things going?

We're still here if you need us... praying for you...

KM