I have never done this before, so please be patient. I am a 39 y/o paramedic/firefighter, been married for 12 years this coming 08/27, have a son 10 and daughter 8. I have known my wife for about 15 years. We had some problems late last year and went to counseling three times. I thought we were on mend. I am deeply in love with my wife and love being married and spending time with family but I work lots of hours to pay for some bad decisions in the past...average 88 hours week.

We never seem to get to spend time together and she has stopped trying to do so. I cannot even get her to hold my hand or sit with me. Tells me she is not "in love" any more but still loves me as friend. I do not remember her telling me that there were any current issues and she confirmed with counselor that she has not told me.

Two weeks ago she said she wanted separation. Feels like I am controlling her, wants freedom. I of course, not thinking that we had a problem, was devastated. We just bought our home a year ago, spent almost every dollar into fixin it up the way she wanted it.

Last night she started a conversation with "I think I want a divorce." I have not slept or eaten since. I have never felt so much emotional pain in my life. She has always been my best friend. I have no other friends to confide in, she has always been the one. I don't feel like I can function. No matter what I say she rolls her eyes and tells me I have caused her too much pain in the past.

She tells me I am very moody, controlling and degrading and make her feel dumb. I was not aware that I was doing any of these things before 12/05. Since then I have done everything I can to stop the negative behavior. I started medication about 7 weeks ago and she claims it has helped greatly but she still does not want to stay.

I have no support system. My parents and sibling have never really been close. I was physically abused at home and left early. I know (NOW) I need counseling and am willing to continue...we just started back last week. But she says it's too late.

What can I do? I was not aware that I was hurting her emotionally. She did not tell me that my behavior was offensive. I don't know if I can change, but I REALLY want to keep my family intact. I don't want her to move out, I don't want her to take the kids. SOMEBODY PLEASE HELP!

You do understand she is having an affair I hope?

Please check out as a first step the infidelity FAQ's in my signature.

The line "I love you but I'm not in love with you" - classic affair marker.

She's on someone else I'm sorry to say.

Sorry that you are here... start reading...maybe make a call to the Harley's.. get a game plan.
We will be here to help.

Set up an appointment with a MC immediately too.

Hi, SLM,

I'm sorry you're in the position to need help, but glad you've found the best place to get it.

I'm not sure how we can help you, and probably someone (more expert at marriage building than I am) will be along shortly.

88 hours a week is a LOT of work time! I do understand that sometimes it's necessary to catch up on financial things by working a lot. Does your wife work outside the home?

Do you suspect that she may be having an affair?

(((SLM)))

Welcome to MB - so sorry you are here...

Nevertheless, you've found the right place to be. The people here have been through this and will help you execute a plan to recover your wayward wife. You need to do the hard work and start reading everything you can on this site. Especially how to execute a Plan A - basically being the best you that you can be to win her back and not letting her see the unattractive pain she is causing you... Save that for everyone here.

It would help if you could provide more information on your situation. You may need to start snooping to find out what is really going on and figure out the truth...

Most everyone here is fully behind helping you recover your marriage... Keep reading.

All I am and will become in Him,

slm, she is saying all the textbook statements that someone in an affair would say. I hope I am wrong about this, but your first order of business is to rule an affair IN OR OUT so we will know what you are dealing with here. We must know the truth in order to know how to proceed.

To find out, you should not ask her, but you should put a tap on your phone, spywre on your computer and perhaps even a GPS on her car. Check your phone bills and cell phone statements to see who she is talking to.

But, do not ask her if she is having an affair. She will only lie to you and wll just go deeper into hiding if it is true. And if you find out it is not true, you would have insulted her for nothing.

Secondly, just relax. Just because she feels like a divorce now does not mean she will next week. Once we know what the real problem is we can help you repair the rift in your marriage, ok? JUST DO NOT DESPAIR because this is FAR from hopeless. Most of the recovered marriages here were once on the verge of divorce, so it hardly means the end.

And lastly, and this is VERY IMPORTANT:

a) do not move out of your home. If she wants to seperate, tell her you are not interested in a seperation. Let her move. DO NOT MAKE THIS EASY FOR HER

b) do not agree to divorce or seperation. Tell her you are only interested in working on your marriage. PERIOD. Then smile sweetly

c) do not LOVEBUST. http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3400_lovebust.html Do not grovel, plead, or beg either

so, hang tight and get to work and find out if she is having an affair. And most of all: CALM DOWN. It really will be ok, we are here to support you.

I do not believe she is having an affair. We are both working so many hours (she works 45-60 week) and running the kids around to have time for one. I still believe her. There are no other signs of an affair. We share our work schedules and she works in a lot of fire stations doing physicals.

The problem is that I feel like I have not been there for her. I have been critical of the way she takes care of the house, the kids, etc. At first I did not realize I was doing it. She pointed it out and I have been working on self improvement.

I know I have caused much of her pain and current distate for me. I now realize I have been treating her like my dad treats my mother, I I don't like that either. We are not close bu dad constantly belittles mom.

I manage all the finances, so I know where $$ is going. So I know some of you think it's an affair but I do not think so...I am confident it is not. The problems started with my treatment of her and negative behavior. That's where I need guidance. I want to show her how much I love her. Ireally believe that I have a medical condition and anger management/belittling issue. Depression runs in my family and a lack of communication. The medications I have been taking for the past seven weeks has mellowed me a great deal.

How do I win her back? I do not believe in divorce or separation.

slm, I would get your hands on the book His Needs, Her Needs by Willard Harley ASAP. In the meantime, read the link to lovebusters that I gave you above.

I would also suggest that you contact the Harleys for counseling. They are PRO-MARRIAGE [unlike most marriage counselors] and will not waste a minute of your time in attracting her back into the marriage. Steve Harley will be worth EVERY PENNY and he will give you a PLAN on how to repair your marriage. He is $185 an hour and is well worth the money.

Snoop. Check up on her. I guarantee you are wrong. Your next thread title will probably be "OK You were right - I should have listened"

Have a look at the Basic concepts as well as the infidelity FAQ's - read everything on this site. Harley's basic concepts will help you build a strong marriage. But that will be impossible if she is having an affair.

You ignore this advice at great peril to your marriage.

#1 thing you should do, even if you think she isnt having an affair... change how you work. working "88 hours a week", you dont have a marriage. you have a bording house.
With the situation like that, there is actually some chance that she is not having an affair, and it really is about you.
[or in this case, lack of you <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> ]

slm

I hope that bk is wrong... but I have to agree with him.

I was in a similar sich... never even considered an A... even when I was jealous of a certain man, my mind didn't even go to PA. It wasn't until I inadvertantly found proof that it hit me. It could never happen to me. My W would never have done that to me.

But it happened. Actually, for me, finding the proof of an A pulled me back together. I was in a state like you are for 2 months not knowing what was going on. (I didn't find this site until after). When I found out about the A... then atleast I had an answer and could build a game plan. Don't get me wrong... I am not wishing an A on you... but don't ignore its possibility.

The fantasy of "love" is the biggest high out there... and she will find a way to make it happen if that is what is going on.

Keep checking and posting. This place can really help.

Shaden

slm

BTW... my first step also was to go through in my mind all the things I felt I did not do well enough for my W. I wanted to change everything all at once. I kept telling her all that I had discovered about myself...THIS DIDN'T HELP. It was too late for that... I only seemed more pathetic to her and helped strengthen her resolve to leave me.

Discovering what you need to do to become a better person and a better husband is paramount to your future... but you need to just do it... don't tell her about it. She'll notice if it's happening.

The good news... once I confronted her about her A... it ended within a couple of weeks. We have gone about a year without contact and things are going fairly well. Every situation is different, but there is hope.

Shaden

slm, and maybe you are right, there is no affair. I hope you are. But just RULE IT OUT, ok? Are there any "friends" to whom she is confiding?

I can't tell you how many times a spouse has been SHOCKED SHOCKED SHOCKED to find out their spouse is having an affair when they never suspected it. Please just RULE IT OUT.

Just had conversation with wife a little while ago, I'm still certain no affair. Recently talked with her mother today and she identified the things wife confided in her were my failures. I love and respect mom in law. Has done best to remain neutral and even defended me many times when she thought wife to be wrong. Other family memebers have recently told me that they were shocked by my behavior. Even physician friends made comment about disrespectful attitude toward wife one time.

Problem is I did not see any of what they are/were saying. Now I do and I am not sure I can convince wife of realization. She has emotionally shut down. Years of bad habits have gone unrecognized by me. I have read His Needs/Her Needs. Tried to get her to read it but she won't pick it up. Just got Love Busters and realize that I have been doing many of things mentioned that are destructive.

I really appreciate the feedback. Those of you who are not convinced about an affair, I'm sorry that you may think me blind. But I seriously believe that I have made so many withdrawals that there is a negative balance right now. She just wnats away from me before "she begins to hate me."

my husband was working 60 plus hours a week and had an affair- seems that people in an affair make time

Read up about Plan A and SNOOP

Understand. And that may very well be the reason. It is still important that you take the effort to RULE IT OUT. Everything you have told us sounds exactly like a wayward who is in an affair. Don't just dismiss it without checking first. Just rule it out, ok?

Here is a good article, slm: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8111_leave.html

p.s. I hate to sound like a harpie, but it is not uncommon for a man or woman to come here and swear up and down there can't be an affair, only to be absolutely shocked when they discovered an affair was the problem all along. The spouse is sometimes the very last to know, the very last to believe. Nothing you have said here convinces me there isn't. So, please: just RULE IT OUT so we can move forward.

I honestly will not mind being wrong about this!

SLM... I wonder... if you KNOW there is no affair... what made you come to an infidelity recovery board? Could it be in the back of your mind you are concerned about this yet don't want to face the truth? I hope you are doing better today and pray that you are right about there being no A.

I must have posted in the wrong location. I thought this was just general questions. New to online stuff except for e-mail and playing.

Told my fire crew this morning. All are trying to be supportive but none have experienced this as they are all fairly young 21-28 and only one is married.

I have her work schedule and see all the phone bills. What other "snooping" is necessary. When she drops kids at gradma's she is gone exactly the time it takes to get there and back. She told me last night that her stomach is in knots and she does not want to come home because of the sick feeling. She has had medical issues like this before when she was extremely upset.

I still am very much in love with her but I cannot help to think about how do I protect me and the kids. SHe wants to move them into another school district ASAP and find an apt. I don't think that is best for the kids. We have moved a lot in the past 6 yrs. 3 states, six jobs, 6 schools. My son has great deal of trouble adjusting and does not want to move again.

She is also very angry that I told the kids what was going on...not all the details but they are 8 and 10 and asked me a direct question. I have never lied to them and won't start. I have tried not to say anything negative about mom.

Should I start looking for attorney or hope and pray counseling will work? She says she will go to the next ind counseling and next couple session but after that she does not know. She told me this morning to give her time and space. I don't know if I can stop asking why and what can be done to fix it.

slm, individual counseling will probably land you a divorce. And I don't say that lightly, but this is something Dr Harley says quite often on his radio show. The reason is that an IC will focus only on what the client WANTS, usually at the expense of the MARRIAGE. Most IC's and MC's ARE NOT PROMARRIAGE and it is very common to hear of them of striving to faciliate a divorce when the marriage could be saved. MC has a VERY HIGH FAILURE rate because of this. The same cannot be said for the Harleys. Their principles are very PRO-MARRIAGE and very SUCCESSFUL.

I agree that you should not allow the kids to be removed from their home. I would do what you need to do to protect the kids while letting her know that you DO NOT want a divorce. In matters of divorce, seperation, finances, and most especially the children, it is important to do what is BEST rather than accomodate your W. I would make it very clear to her that you are not interested in divorce and will not make it easy on her to get one. This will SLOW HER DOWN long enough for you

You are not in the wrong place at all. We can help you here.

slm - welcome to MB.

What kind of work does your wife do?

What is the workplace environment like?

Does she have work email or a work phone or a work cell phone that you do not have access to?
Mulan

There is not always an A. They were in counceling last year concerning the same issues she's giving for wanting the D. He admits that her complaints were legit.

I got my exH to MC on two seperate occasions. He was loud, bossy, controlling, mean, degrading, I can go on and on. And one day I told him I wanted a D. No A, I was just done.

It happens - Dru

Drucilla,

Do you happen to remember saying "I love you but I'm not in love with you."

I am guessing not. You see, you have to generally be in love with someone, to realize your not "IN" love with someone else. Most spouses wouldn't have a clue what the feeling of love is like, after say, 5 years of marriage. That might be stretching it, but, I think alot of us forget those giddy feelings, those feelings about living to speak to that other person for just a few seconds or hours on end. We forget it, and don't ever remember it until we get smacked on the head.

That she said this to him, well, it really lays the foundation in my mind. Secondly, her job, if I read correctly is that she gives FIREMEN PHYSICALS. Well, call me blind and stupid, but, if this was my wife's job, I'd be worried no matter what. Jeepers, talk about high risk occupation.

slm- any chance she's pregnant?

(Drucilla)

Sounds like you understand. Is there anything your H could have done to save marriage? I really want to work this out but communications not so good. W listens but does not really provide feedback, just that I have hurt her so much in the past by my behavior.

I'm trying to read Love Busters but mind not functioning well. Looks like I've done all the wrong things in the past, but was unaware of negative actions. I pray it's not too late to change me...I just don't know how yet.

I did get to one major concern. W has followed me all over country for my job and been VERY supportive. Now she is working full time and has job she loves (I don't like it for reasons already posted). She is very good at it. Always hear from other firefighters how professional and friendly she is. I have not been supportive at all. When I brought this realization to her she began to cry uncontrollably. I may have struck a nerve.

I sure hope I can figure something out. Son tells me they are looking at apartments on 13th. Any thoughts or advise appreciated. Thanks.

slm....

I could have written EXACTLY what you wrote about your situation on August 27 1999!! EXACTLY. Wife worked a lot, I worked a lot, kids, etc. We had "grown apart" The "I love you but...." all of it. You know what? Her PA was essentially over and she was withdrawing....

Do not discount anything...she says....her phrases and actions are TEXTBOOK....regardless, you need to read up and try and save your marriage....

best of luck

Quite right, I did not say that to him... but I bet he got me to say something he could have taken that way. He asked if I loved him, and I said something like 'love is not enough'. And truly, I did not love him, but I was trying to be as cool and unemotional about the situation as I could. I was worried about him freaking and becoming violent or vindictive.

SLM:
NO, I'm not sure he could have done anything, but he did to EVERYTHING to facilitate me leaving and the D. So with that I say DO NOT MAKE IT EASY ON HER TO D YOU.

My exH very quickly said 'fine, you want a D, here you go'. He did all the leg work, helped me move, gave me $.

Keep with the Plan A. ELIMINATE THE LB'S... ELIMINATE. One LB can wipe out 100 EN's. THIS I KNOW. exH would do OK for a day or two then blow it with a LB. ANY thoughts I had about him changing FLEW out the door with a little LB. - Dru

(Drucilla)

Thanks so much for the insight. Have been reading Love Busters and been slapped with reality check. Looks like the book was written about us. I had no idea the hurt I was causing and I'm sure she still has no idea what damage she is doing because cannot get her to read or talk about it. W has been cordial. Informed her I DID NOT want separation or D and taking the kids out of the school district was not acceptable. W has IC today and me tomorrow. Couples MC Monday. I know she is looking at apartments Sunday while I'm at work but I'll have the checkbooks so no action can be taken. I have paperwork for temporary custody, but have not filed yet since she is still at home. Lawyer says judge will certainly grant temp custody since I am not leaving the house and going to keep kids in same school. Will have to hire sitter since they get home at 3 and I don't get home til 8-9 pm, but not much difference now.

I wish I had found this web site and books a long time ago...I may not be in this crisis then. I am still very much in love with W and tell her daily. She replies "I know." I guess that's better than a negative/hurtful response.

Thanks for sharing.

Hi Slim,

Are you VERY familiar with Plan A? Re-read the articles here or the chapters in your book. Think of anything she could consider an LB and eliminate it. Focus on her top 2-3 EN – get creative. Tell us what they are, maybe we could make some suggestions.

First, cut back on telling your W ILY daily. Right now she sees that as pressure and an LB. You want to throw a little of the 180 plan in, also. Goal is to ATTRACT your W back to you, so you need to be ATTRACTIVE. Keep a positive attitude, be busy, be involved with life and activities outside the house. This is very hard when you're having M problems, so you have to make an extra effort, here. Dress nice, buy some new clothes, get a haircut... Ask her out, something simple, fun and a little unusual. Nothing too drastic, but you want to get her thinking....

Your mantra should be “I want to save this marriage.” Tell MC that is your goal, then ASK him what HIS is. If you are not familiar with this MC, call him before the appointment, ask him his philosophy. MC will do this, tell him you are only interested in seeing him IF he’s pro-marriage. Stress to MC that children are involved. Appeal to your W IN MC, that we owe it to the children to try. Don’t do this otherwise, just in MC. Stall her moving out. She’s probably got a nest egg put aside to move (that’s what I did). Don’t ask her this (sounds bossy and controlling), but don’t be surprised.

She’s in IC. When did that start? Do you know IC? Do you think IC is supportive of marriage?

Have you sincerely apologized? I mean deeply, so that she knows it? Something to consider.

Take GOOD care of yourself… - Dru


PLAN A

We are using Employee Assistance Program from my employer. Has cuples session two weeks ago, today is W first IC mine is tomorrow. We go together on Monday.

Have not got feel for counselor yet. I intend to ask lots of questions tomorrow. She did point out some glaring differences in our communications attempts. W is not receiving the message I think I'm sending.

I have apologized profusely. I really am sorry. I had no clue I was doing the things she said I am doing. Now after reading LB I am aware and want to change negative behavior.

I have fire dept picnic Sat and she said she would go with me...family function. Our 12th wedding anniversary is coming up. Should I be low key and just provide a card or simple gift or try to set up a date?

Our schedules are very busy and do not look as if they will let up until Oct. She says she needs space and time. We will hardly see each other during waking hours until Oct. I know this is not good for M but my absence from the house is cherished time for her. She says she can breathe easier when I am at work. I miss her terribly during the day but she does not even want me to call. I usually call her once a day in the afternoon so we can connect. I just want to hear her voice but she feels I am "checking up" on her. I don't believe I have a reason to check up on her since the kids are usually with her at the office. Son is very vocal about situation and I think he would say something if there was anything happening. W has never given me a reason to mistrust her yet.

W feels that I critize her housekeeping and child raising skills. Says she feels I am embarrassed by her and make her feel stupid. She has always had some self esteem issues. Again, she is receiving a different message than what I intended to send. W admits everything I say to her right now is received negatively. W wants more help around house. She works about 40 hr/wk and I work at least 88. Figure it up, I don't have much time for anything but dinner and some sleep!

When we talked about my lack of enthusiasm and support for her job W became very emotional. I think I hit one of the big LBs. She has followed me around the country and been supportive of my career. I'm comfortable with where I am now. I am usually very confident and secure, but her job bothers me. She performs physicals on firefighters in the area. I know many of them and they would tell me if they thought she was flirty or inappropriate. However, my mind is uneasy about the job. I just don't like it...and I've told her how I feel. She just shrugs it off and asks if I have talked to any of the other guys (and I have). She only spends about 10-15 minutes with each person while others are in line waiting. She and Dr. perform about 4-5 physicals and hour for 8-10 hours. Is my reaction or feelings inappropriate?

I will do anything to save M. And I've told her that. I ask her to let counseling have a chance and not to make any life-changing decisions yet. She agreed to continue through the couples session on Monday and then I don't know what she will do.

(Thanks for the ideas...it really feels better to vent).