Leaving a mandatory settlement conference(bifurcated trial. D issued 11-2-06) and I got into a very pleasant talk with the ex. Caught up on family and friends that I had not seen in almost 3 years. She became very touchy, gripping my arm etc. Things she had done before all this happened.

After telling me " you know I regret everything that happened", she asked me on a date.Says she misses the way I always treated her with respect and how protective I had always been for her both physically, psychologically and medically. Said all the men she had been seeing were "f#cking pigs".

I avoided answering primarily because I was stunned by her request. After several pleadings, I gave her the best answer that I could muster

" Cyndy , you just can't go back to Kansas"

This occured after receiving several very faith based emails which she titled " To the people that have most influenced my life"

She never ceases to surprise me. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

So, you're not even halfway tempted to let her come back to Kansas? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Orchid: This is quite telling. What do you REALLY see from this statement? I will share my thoughts after I read yours.


Orchid: I can imagine how it could have thrown you for a loop. Bottom line is that you still have your clear mind and calm heart. Remember her remorse needs to include deep regret clearly putting your interests ahead of hers.

The WS' still think they are smarter than the BS and rest of the world..... amazing. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

L.

When a person with a dodgy emotional infrastructure gets religion in a big way...

Cy, it can only be a matter of time before she starts lecturing you about 'how to live your life better and be as happy as she is'.

TA

Cym, this is not the first time your ex has made attempts to re-engage you. What would it take for you to consider her offer...just curious.

Hmmmm. I would ignore it. My divorce was final a day, and ex started calling me incessantly. This is after me hoping and praying for recovery for over 3 years.

Can we say "too little, too late?".............

fiat,

When we were talking for that brief time, yes it would have been easy to imagine giving it a try. But I also know that because of my very deep Plan B, that there are loads of issues that would need to be discussed and that wouldn't be nearly as pleasant.

Orchid, I truly don't know what to make of that statement. Without blowing my own horn, I always took great pride in doing exactly those things.During our M, she often said similar statements , especially just after one of her pressure relieving midnight to 4 am fights that she just had to start every 2-3 weeks.

TA, when we talked there was no mention of the emails. I wanted to see if she would bring it up and how she would explain this sudden reawakening of her faith. On the matter of living my life better, she was never shy about advising me on that exact subject. But she also admitted that her life now was a chaotic mess. There was nothing even remotely said or implied about her being anywhere close to happiness

Hope,

I truly don't know but it would definitely be started by her agreeing to my five points that she had previously rejected AND hearing from anyone else that she admitted to them about what she had done, how she lied about it and how sorry she was. It takes some guts to admit to the person you destroyed how badly you wronged them. It is another point to admit to your group of sycophants that yes, it was me(EX) that needs to take responsibility.

Hmmm, I think the holidays and the legalities have her a bit melancholy. And she, as she often has, is looking for the easy fix: You.

With prayers,

Not 2 mention the lack of clarification of the point Orchid raised.

How many "pigs" has she been dating since you separated?

Still, who knows?

-ol' 2long

swell (or is that swill <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />)

she sure knows how to hand out the compliment <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Cy, you are better than a f'ing pig

.... don't let it go to your head

Pep <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

Guys,

Just got out of court for the trial over the community property. Quite frankly, I got destroyed. Oh well just money!

In the middle of the trial there was a short break and I don't know what possessed me but I just had to ask my EX a question. I tapped her on the shoulder and asked if I could talk to her in private for just a minute. She looked surprised but agreed immediately.

We went out in the hallway and I said that I just had to ask her one question. I stressed that I was not trying to be mean or a smartass or to make a point.

I said " Cyndy you have been running your own life for nearly three years now. You now have a lot of money, a new house, new BMW and your choice of boyfriends. Has any of those things made you happy? Are you as happy now as you thought you would be three years along in your life?

She got very emotional but to her credit she looked me right in the eyes and said "no"

I excused myself and went back in to the trial. I am sure there are a lot of reasons for my question but I will be d#mned if I could concentrate on anything else except the memory of the look in her eyes and her answer.

I wept all the way home from the courtroom.

Cymanca,

First, I would like to say thank you for checking in on my thread when I intially entered Plan B. I look back now and know that you were very wise in your advice.

I would like to say that you have handled yourself in a way that I hope to grasp over the next few months, and that what is happening to you, currently, with your wife, is what I fear. I, truly, would rather my WH either never ask to be with me again, or ask me to try, but in a way that shows that he has much to do BEFORE I invest myself again. I'm looking for a selfless act that I do not believe will come. My fear is that I will give in to crumbs once more, if he dared to ask to 'see' me again.

I know that my most recent contact with WH sent me in a tailspin, from which I have MOSTLY recovered, so I can see how KNOWING that your WW is unhappy, and that much of this could have been avoided, had she awakened earlier, is a great disappointment.

I wish you clarity and happiness...

Cy:

From reading just about every post you have ever made, I formed an opinion that your ex is about half a mile wide and an inch deep. I am sure that she regrets everything that happened in terms of outcomes for herself.

Intelligent, yes, deep thinker, no. It's only in a Harlequin Romance where "Mr. Excitement" turns out to be something other than a "Pig."


Yep, still all about her.

All the best, Cy.

Larry

Are we allowed to hook people up here? I have a colleague at work who is a project manager, 42, beautiful, fun, lives close, has a beautiful home, and looking for a nice man. She has 2 kids 19 and 16 (almost out the door).

Silent & Lucidity,

Thanks so much for the very kind words. I have tried to post less and less here at MB simply because I felt that I was probably being so repetitious that fellow MB'rs would avoid anything typed by my little hands.

This a such a dirty business but from the outset my goal was to save my M and stay as clean as I could. Did I make mistakes, you betcha. Were any of those mistakes responsible for me being divorced....no way.Did my behavior and following MB principles doom my M as some might suspect..I think not.

I was determined to save my M in a way that these steps would never again be necessary.

Another Plan B success story <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

believer,

You wouldn't be asking if you were in the courtroom today and heard me described by my EX's attorney. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Well, it is over now, and I'm very sure that you will do just fine.

I'm more concerned about your wife. I really don't think she is going to be happy.

My ex is depressed and suicidal according to his family. Not being an honorable person tends to catch up to you.

believer,

Divorce doesn't magically take away all your feelings for your EX. I had been following your story and I am sure you are accurate in your description and his state of mind.

No, divorce doesn't help at all. Still caring about someone is the price of loving. This is not what I wanted, and it all seems so pointless now. That is what bothers me the most - all of the loss for nothing. And I'm not talking only about myself, but my ex, the OW, her ex, her daughter, our children (8 combined), his family, my family, our friends.......... Well, I know you know what I mean.

But life goes on.

especially just after one of her pressure relieving midnight to 4 am fights that she just had to start every 2-3 weeks.

here's the line that jumped out and grabbed me by the throat....

I used to be that person...
when very very young..
when very very drama oriented...

when I was very very very selfish....

the thought of ranting at my husband...which was never ever ever about him but all about my need to for bogus attention tied up in the pretty bow of psycho babble of venting sharing and confronting.....for HOURS..room to room he could run but he couldn't hide.....

THANK GOD that was years ago...

the idea of badgering my dear sweet husband for hours is so foriegn to me.....

that my question for you CY...is

has your wife changed that she would never ever ever do that again....
or is that crap still on the menu...

cause the thought of you having to endure a mere fifteen minutes of that CRAP....is as distasteful for me as is the thought that I once was that SHREW!!!!

I find those actions so revolting
so childish
so selfish
so cruel....

even as I was the one who did it...

that I could never ever subject me or anyone else to such a thing....

close your eyes CY
imagine you are ready to lay your weary head down and rest...

and

BAM!!!!!!

the four hour marathon rant is on....
and you find yourself in "that place" once again...

could you do it
would you do it...

ARK

When I read your post the words of Joni Mitchell popped into my head.

"Don't it always seem to go, that you don't know what you've got till it's gone. They paved paradise, and put up a parking lot."

It appears that your ex-W is discovering that wondering around that brand new parking lot isn't all that pretty or exciting afterall.

Ark,

You have described the scenario to perfection. The pain of the argument was secondary to my desparate attempt to escape the inevitable salvo of anger and hate spewing from my EX. In the same conversation that she asked me outon a date, we very briefly touched on some of the unpleasantness that contributed to us being where we found ourselves. She said the thing that she hated most was when I got into my car and "abandoned" her in my attempt to put distance between me and all that vitriol. I would drive around for hours at night to finally come home to a now serenely sleeping wife and knowing that same sleep was nearly impossible for me.

When she said she didn't miss those arguments at all, I asked her to think about all her old boyfriends. Was I the common denominator present in those past lives or was someone else?

Cy,

Thanks for the update. Interestingly, you advised me to have a plan when ex comes around while I was in the midst of my situation. (I had the plan memorized, but have since forgotten. I'll have to revisit my journal). Amazing how we detach and pass time. We fill the void the ex left with other, more constructive activities so it matters less and less whether the ex sees the light and comes back.

Good luck to you.

HL

HardLesson,

Sometimes no matter how prepared you are , people surprise you. My EX originally made a R gesture last March, hence my 5 non-negotiable points that would have to be implemented BEFORE any R attempt would take place. If you remember the one she would NOT agree to was the one that issued severe economic penalties if she strayed again. In her wisdom and perhaps with God's hand she refused.

My prayers go with you and your children during the holidays and I wish you a great New Year

Cy,

Your prayers -- our prayers -- for the kids are being answered this holiday season. Thank you.

HL

HL,

I just went back and read all your posts and was taken aback by the contrasts in our situations. You had a long term M, children and all their attendant issues while mine was a relatively short M of 7 years with no kids. It took you less that 6 months to get D'd and mine took almost 3 years. I would venture to say that other than both D's both situations ended up the opposire of what most posters here would have predicted.

I know I have few regrets over the course I took, could you tell me how you feel in that regard?

2long, Sorry I missed your post. In answer to your question there have been at least 4 "pigs" but I stopped counting over a year ago

Cy,

I was going to answer briefly, but I can’t. So bear with me.

First, while I have no regrets, I have played the “what if” game many times.

When WW dropped bomb, like many, I was left to read, seek advice and make decisions I felt were in my and my childrens’ best interest. WW was out of control, trashing our wedding vows and treating me like dirt. Moreover, she’s in mid life crisis. When we were first married she wanted to pursue a music career (tour, etc). We had a family instead. Nine years ago she pursued music as a part time hobby. It grew into an all-consuming escape. Her A was with an OM successful in the music industry. She was emotionally connected to OM and chose to pursue him rather than stay in the house. All the literature indicated this was the most challenging Affair to Bust.

How would I deal with the Infidelity?

One choice is to expose, Plan A, allow W to move out and refuse to take action to facilitate a Divorce. I liken this to swinging for the fences to repair and rebuild the M. Hit a home run and we’re good for few decades and this episode just becomes folklore.

But, I, like many, had to ask myself what if I didn’t hit a home run? WW is in mid life crisis (or mid life transformation as some like to say). She valued our M so little that any real recovery likely may take years after the A ran its course. Perhaps I could minimize my losses and take back some control of my life. Cut the cancer out so I can heal. If she’ll agree to terms I’ll grant her an easy D.

I had to ask what did I want?

1) I wanted my marriage back and an intact nuclear family.
Wife wanted out to pursue OM. Period.

2) If I can’t have #1 above, I want to be primary custodian of my children and a financial settlement I can live with. Preservation for self and children.

I felt in my heart of hearts that #1 was not obtainable in the SHORT TERM. I felt WW would move out and become more demanding of her needs.

When WW agreed to grant me primary custody of our children and financial terms I could live with WITHOUT A FIGHT OR MUCH NEGOTIATION, I closed the deal.

My WW while completely selfish and in a FOG also AVOIDS CONFLICT. When I told her I would grant her an easy D if and only if she gave me #2 above, otherwise she would have to hire an attorney and I’d fight like ****** and spend every last cent to get custody of the kids. I had nothing to lose! NOTHING! When she agreed I had to take the deal.

Let me tell you, the settlement agreement, approved by the judge that names me the primary custodian and gives her liberal “visitation” of her own children as long as she is resides in the same school district is a powerful legal document and a helluva boundary. It’s not a home run of reconciliation. Maybe it’s a ground rule double.

WW signed the deal while in the midst of a FOG. We ran to the courthouse and filed. I talked to Steve Harley after we filed. He was quite understanding of my actions.

Positives:
• Remove bandage quickly without prolonged divorce proceeding.
• My stature in Ex’s eyes has rose dramatically. I stood for the kids. She knows it. Her family knows. Everybody knows it. It removed her power.
• Legal strength to retain custody should WW move away.
• If WW and I are active parents (we are) of three girls (2, 10 special needs, 13) we will be in each others lives. Reconciliation more likely down the road.
• Ex has to grow up, support herself, work more, make mortgage, pay insurance, and basically be an adult. This MLC is as much about her esteem issues as with OM. I see her having to change to be more responsible. It won’t happen over night. It’ll take a couple of years.

Negatives:
• Divorce and everything it brings. Nuff said.
• See kids half the time.
• Temporarily “enable” affair by providing her an influx of cash and new mantra of “divorcee”.


Postscript:
I will mention the Affair is proceeding along. However, WW no longer harbors hope of “joining the circus” to tour and pursue a music career (something I’ve told her for years that didn’t fit into our lifestyle, but she chose not to listen to me). This is the first dose of reality to popping the fantasy bubble.

Our Relationship:
Co-parents. Not friends. No small talk. Always respectful. No relationship talk. One time in September we spent some time together at D10’s birthday party. WW rambled on for an hour, just talking and talking, about her work, about the kids. It was obvious she felt alone and isolated. Like many WW she feels she lost her best friend. She used to talk about going on “post divorce dates” like we’d be buddies. Hasn’t happened.

There’s a connection there that goes back two decades, and as much as she would like to erase it from her memory bank, she can’t. I believe she is truly still conflicted. I saw her yesterday. She looked like she lost some weight – she didn’t need to. She looks more tired and worn down.

It’s About Me Now:
This last year stunk. Worst year ever. I’m just now starting to feel normal. Every time I think that, though, I am surprised at how “un-normal” I actually feel. I’m still a good dad. Still good at my job. Still searching for my niche as a single guy. I go to the gym a couple times a week and take ballroom dancing on the side. Feels good to hold a woman again, even if it’s during a foxtrot!!!!

your logic and reasoning are a high watermark for just about any betrayed husband with children

thank you for taking the time to write out your story in this way

it was illuminating

Pep

also

excellent example of how to use WS fog to your advantage

play to their selfishness in order to give the BS the upper hand ... in regards to child custody

Pep

HL,

Thanks for spending the time for your insightful answer! I agree with Pep, you made a brilliant move predicated on your children's happines. I am sure as they mature, your daughters will have some very embarassing questions for your Ex

One of the most insightful posts I have seen on here in a long time...BRAVO...

Thanks for the kind words. It was not fun. There were no victors. I just tried to limit the damage.

HL