Be vewy vewy quite. We’re hwunting wascally waywawds.

It is very, very quite. NC is holding so far (please feel free to perform whatever good luck ritual you have right now) and withdrawal has not been too dramatic yet. Plan A is rolling along and in truth I like a lot of what I have done. I like having goals again for the day, the week, the month and the years. I like the discipline.

As a side benefit, I have become a house cleaning machine. When I finally lose my job because I am face down asleep at my desk I could have a future at Merry Maids.

At first my WW ignored my efforts and acts of consideration or dismissed them as “too little too late”, but now I am seeing she is starting to really appreciate many of the changes quite a bit. This of course, makes them all the easier to do.

My WW has opened her life to me in a very complete way and has remained completely accountable to me about her time and communications.

She always answers her cell when I call now. If you are new here, add that to the list of clues that you have been sent to the bench for a new starter. While the A was in full swing the cell bill indicated OM did not have the same problem getting through as I did. All I ever got to do was leave voice mails that were never returned. Oh yeah, and I got to pay the cell bill overages.

Quiet talks, DVD’s and popcorn, lots of coffee, a few smiles and a couple of laughs. Physically not much more than a little handholding and a couple of backrubs but at this point I am thrilled just to have that.

I am as prepared as I can be for setbacks, which I expect, but overall the MB plan has been very effective. I thank you all again for your support and thoughts.

Hopefully my insurance will pay to fix my Marty Feldman eye I have developed watching her every move.

Hey look! I am a full fledged Member now!

If you are going through H*ll, you better keep going.
--Sir Winston Churchhill (1874-1965)

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

add me <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Welcome. Well, you can't get your thread locked again way back here.......

By the way, has your wife written a no contact letter to the OM?

Glad to see you over this way. JFO doesn't get a lot of traffic.


*shakes a dead parrot*

Pep, SD, B, Bitbucket!! Welcome to my humble thread. If I knew you were coming I would have cleaned it up a bit. It is a definite fixer-upper.

Believer, the NC letter was done by email from home. It was pretty straight and to the point. No Waa Waa. I did make a point to be sure that the OM’s two-year old son was specifically mentioned. What were they thinking? Now I just cross my fingers and do my best to roll with Plan A and be the light at the end of the withdrawal tunnel. You want to say how hard it is but in truth everything I am doing now I should have been doing before the A was ever possible. Idiot!

I think I have a very strong ally in the OMW. She was almost scary strong. She was in perfect accord that NC was the only option. OM has really gone to ground. But, the searchlights are on, the concertina wire laid and the Dobermans deployed. And I still have that sexy Marty Feldman eye thing going for me.

Bitbucket, thanks for your good luck parrot ritual. It reminded me of the old Monty Python Dead Norwegian Blue Parrot Skit:
'E's passed on! This parrot is no more! He has ceased to be! 'E's expired and gone to meet 'is maker! 'E's a stiff! Bereft of life, 'e rests in peace! If you hadn't nailed 'im to the perch 'e'd be pushing up the daisies! 'Is metabolic processes are now 'istory! 'E's off the twig!
'E's kicked the bucket, 'e's shuffled off 'is mortal coil, run down the curtain and joined the bleedin' choir invisibile!! THIS IS AN EX-PARROT!!

We are going to my IL’s tonight for a birthday dinner. Don’t get me wrong, I dearly love my MIL and FIL but this woman can not cook. If my MIL had been the chef on St. Helena in 1821 there would be no debate or controversy on what really killed Napoleon.

Thanks again for the thoughts. I will keep posting as things come up so hopefully you won’t hear from me much. Have a great weekend.


Winston Churchill and Lady Astor –

Lady Astor: "Winston, if I were your wife I'd put poison in your coffee." Winston: "Nancy, if I were your husband I'd drink it."

LMAO!

Welcome! Don't be hesitant to check in every so often...hopefully for positive update sharing. Withdrawal and recovery is a land unto its own, and is difficult to say the least. Expect some distance, expect some closeness, a lot of waivering in-between. Consistant is what you are searching for. Keep your Plan A (lifetime version) in full swing, and keep busy pursuing the 15 hours of togetherness a week that Harley recommends. But keep a keen eye open for when she just needs a little space, too.

Welcome aboard, and best wishes,
SD

No worries. It has that lived-in look.


That was the desired result! I caught a couple of Python references in your original thread on JFO.

I was trying to think of a way to work in Color Sergeant Bourne from 'Zulu' into your war of the waywards thread, but sadly I failed in this mission. The jump from Natal to the American Civil War was one I couldn't figure out how to make.

"All right, nobody told you to stop working!"

I like your strategy. Your thread won't get locked this late at night. Clever..........

Bitbucket,
Perhaps guys that can recite the Norwegian Blue Parrot sketch and Color Sergeant Bourne’s lines (ably played by Nigel Green) from Zulu were fortunate to ever find someone to marry them in the first place. These rare and useless skills also rather place a “born on date” across our foreheads.

My favorite Bit from Zulu:
Lt. Chard (Stanley Baker): “The army doesn't like more than one disaster in a day.”

Lt. Bromhead (Michael Caine): “Looks bad in the newspapers and upsets civilians at their breakfast.”

My own private Roarke’s Drift was quiet again this weekend. WW and I did some shopping on Saturday and she actually called me honey. Such a small thing and yet I can’t remember how long it had been since I heard it last. I really can’t. Otherwise she kind of swings from warm and at least a little engaging to sullen and quiet. All as you all have predicted.

The night hours keep bringing me some combinations of anger, depression and anxiety but I think I have managed and concealed them that they have not done any lovebusting. It’s a long slow journey.

Hi Believer. I have indeed learned my lesson about discussing woodchippers in polite company.

The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same
level of thinking we were at when we created them.
--Albert Einstein (1879-1955)

LMAO!!!!

Good news! Your 'too little too late' thing was EXACTLY what I went through. I am a cleaning machine now too.

Keep at it and good things should come!

We are going on twenty-one days of NC. Shake that parrot bitbucket.

I heard a rumor in passing conversation through a third party that OM got thrown out of his home by his wife recently for some reason. I said, “That’s awful. I wonder if he was having an affair?”


After reviewing my notes of the past few weeks I offer the following:
Words and Wisdom of the Wayward – 11/23/06 to 1/5/07

On the Affair:

“I never meant to hurt you.”

“This is not about you, it’s about me.”

“We never planned for it to happen.”

“I didn’t even think you would care anymore.”

“You just have to let that go.” (referring to my insistence that the A was in fact a problem) “It has nothing to do with the problems in our marriage.”

“I don’t know what I am going to do.” and “I can’t remember.” about two hundred times each.


On Exposure:

IF…….YOU…….CALL……..AND…… TELL……..HER……..I’LL……..
The above skit is best performed with a beet red face, clenched fists and jaw, and a snarling delivery through your teeth. She never finished the thought but my guess was it didn’t end as “buy you a new fishing rod.”

“Their marriage is none of our business.”

“It was never my intention to hurt their marriage.”

“I don’t know anything about her or their marriage and don’t want to”


On the marriage:

“I just grew up.”

“I still love you and care for you. If I didn’t I could be a real b!tch about this.”
Come on, I know you’re smiling! That has to be a MB prize winner!

“We have nothing in common anymore.”

“We drifted apart”

“I have too much anger and resentment.”

“You NEVER EVER……(fill in the blank with a positive thing).

“You ALWAYS….(fill in the blank with a negative thing).

“We NEVER EVER…..(fill in the blank with a positive thing).


Denial ain’t just a river in Egypt.
--Mark Twain (1835-1910)

After a few glasses of wine, pre D-Day, my already WW looked me right in the eyes and asked "do you think it's possible to love two people?"

Huh?

The snooping began that night...

Well it’s time for an update and it’s not too good.

I got my WW’s half of a phone conversation with my BIL last Tuesday where she told him she was going to ask for “some space” the following night. If I agreed, she would leave on Saturday to move into my IL’s. If I baulked she would sneak out on Thursday night while I was coaching at my youth girl’s basketball practice. During the A my Tuesday/Thursday basketball practices were “date night”.

There were considerable fog-like exaggerations to my BIL about things happening at home. Conversations I had thought were good, low-key and positive she referred to as “knock-down – drag outs”. Blah, blah, blah. She told him once she left she had no intension of coming back and identified marital property she planned on getting. She used terms like “I’ve earned that”, and “I have always been third place here”. She told BIL she has not spoken to OM and he would probably not return a call to her in any case.

As a side note, my BIL is living with his parents after his divorce out of an 18 year marriage due to: That’s right! An A with a MOW. My WW and BIL have “reconnected” several months ago and we can all see why now. He has been very enabling of my WW during her A and withdrawal. His A is still ongoing. This is all getting very sickening.

I told her Tuesday night I knew what her plan was and she packed her clothes and left for my MIL’s “Home for Wayward Waywards”.

I had to launch Plan B the next day and delivered the letter to my MIL. I gave her a copy as well so there could be no distortion of the contents. I have not seen WW or spoken to her since.

Thursday night DD19 asked to please get the whole story on what was happening. She has been told some but has tried to stay as far away from it as possible. Like me she thought we had made tremendous progress over the past month. DD19 was devastated to learn the whole story and is very disappointed and non-responsive to WW right now. She added a few of her own stories that I did not know that indicated she had been used and abused during the A as well. She is hurt.

My observations:

- WW is in a serious mid-life crisis and just wants to run away from the marriage rather then work at it.
- WW would pursue the OM but I truly think he is gone. I think some of her pain there is that she was far more into him than he was her.
- Her family is 100% behind her in spite of their normally extreme religious views and professing their sadness for me.
- After NC started I pushed too hard for her to leave the company and she dug in her heels and started to resent it. Her job and job satisfaction has always been a major EN for her. But my focus was on NC and I did not know just how far OM had run.

I know I need to continue on the dark Plan B, but my bucket of love has a hole in it and it’s getting bigger. A growing part of me just wants to throw it in and cash out of a 25 year marriage.

I read so many other threads and they can give such hope but I am starting to feel there is none here.

Not much time...it's Ace....with a hole in her bucket that's closing.....may need a screenplay writer for film of exposure to OW H. Hoped you might be around, but sorry for your bad update.

Don't give up...your bucket can withstand a lot more. Hang in there til the pros get here.

Ace

Sorry to hear of the new development.

A couple of things...are you sure there is/has been NC?

She still sounds very foggy, which only contact would explain.

Your daughter should not be restrained from sharing her feelings with her mother, not at 18 y.o.

Plan B is a very stategic pre-emptive strike as you are doing it. This, I think, is a really good move. Stay dark as humanly possible. Search Mortarman's threads for how his went, and how well it is appearing to turn out.

I'd return to enough snooping to see if the NC is still in place, or has continued.

Sorry again, man...wayward women are horrible to deal with, no question about it.

SD

Hi SD

There is no way to be 100% certain but I really do believe there has been no contact. In the ½ conversations I captured she told both my BIL and MIL that he is gone off radar. The OMW was a tough nut and I think he is on a very short leash. I have had some third party info that supports this too.

I think maybe the combination of a serious withdrawal and frequent exposure to my fogged up BIL who no doubt uses her to justify and rationalize his own ongoing A tipped her over. I also think the OM’s seeming ease of ability to disappear on command when he felt the wrath of OMW hurt her.

WW has no idea the damage she has done to her relationship with DD19. If it becomes a serious rift it will be the highest price she will pay for her good times. My daughter is very hurt and that makes me very angry.

I really thought I did a good Plan A while she was home and I know it caught her attention, but it was only six weeks long. Not enough time. Plan B just seemed forced on me but I felt it had to happen under the circumstances.

When the Soviet Union allowed limited immigration out of the country for Jewish families during the early 80’s they would only allow them to take one suitcase of clothes and the equivalent of $2,000 dollars in cash. Nothing else. Sounds like a good law for infidels leaving a marriage to me.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Sounds generous to me!

You're right SD, what was I thinking. Replace suitcase with a trashbag, replace clothes with their soiled sheets and undies, and replace $2,000 with a coupon for free STD testing.

That seems fair.

Dude glad to see you back but the news sucks.

I'm no pro at this but a dark plan B sounds to me like the thing to do. If DD19 is very hurt then you might enlist her in plan B as well.

Do you guys have other kids or just the one daughter?

I have always been a fan of letting the wayward take just their clothes and a can opener with them. Everything else is marital property, and they're the one leaving the marital home.

Do you think WW weighs the same as a duck?

Hi Chrisner,

It's another day....how ya doin? Need to chat sometime soon about the 'hole in bucket' thing.

Ace

Hey BB and Ace,

Thanks for being here.

Yes DD19 is our only child. It was part of all the dreaded milestones we hit last year including:

- 25th anniversary in May (EA was starting)
- DD19 graduation in May
- WW’s Grandfather died in August (EA was heating up)
- My mother died in September (A took off big 2-days later)
- DD19 moves out to college in September
- WW has 45th birthday in November (OM “slipped” her his present that night)

Ironic that we are in Plan B now and she is in a house filled with people and support and I am alone keeping the furnace around 62 degrees and watching my every dollar in the dark. Is this what they mean about a “dark Plan B.”

The weather has improved a little so I have taken to walking about a 3-mile round trip to buy a turkey sandwich for dinner and return home to eat it. I pass a theater along the way so last night I decided to go in and see “Letters from Iwo Jima.” I thought it would be nice to a least have a few people around while sitting in the dark. I was the only one in the theater for the entire movie. I think the cosmos are trying to tell me something.

“Letters” is a great movie but sitting alone in a 300 seat theater watching Japanese soldiers essentially committing suicide for 2-1/2 hours does not exactly warm an already depressed soul.

As for WW, I assume she is preparing to get an apartment and begin her new life of independence and happiness. I expect her to hit me with D papers in the next 6-weeks or so. Just about another 90 miles of walking for turkey sandwiches.

Do you think there is any real hope when the car is this far over the cliff?

BB- WW is very petite and there are probably some ducks that outweigh her. But she has indeed “turned me into a newt (erd).”

chrisner,

It took me a while to go back and read all your posts and see where you are, and how you got here. The humor of your posts, no doubt masks the painfulness of all of this....but if you don't write for a living...ya missed your callin' chere! Personally, I think your "War of the Waywards" script didn't get near enough air time! These situations are so tragic....it's not often that a BS is able to keep their wits about them. I wish the advice could be equally entertaining, but it's too easy to fall into sarcasm and vengence. However, if you haven't read Orchids "babbleback" stuff....it's right up your alley. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Now, if I have the time line right:

-You discovered the A right around Thanksgiving.
-Confronted and she confessed.
-Registered here in December.
-Started a good plan A including exposure to OMS.
-For a while it looked like the affair was over and you guys had a shot.
-Then....she moved out and in with mom and dad, where her low down cheating brother was already mooching off her parents and aiding her affair.
-Now you're all alone in the dark.
-No longer sure about no contact.
-Drinking bourbon.
-Dreaming of woodchippers.
-Getting threads locked.
-And have gone to Plan B.

Is that about right?

I'm going to proceed as though it is. So....I have a few questions. Why did you go to Plan B? The answer is strictly for my curiousity (and so I know what your reasons were). Even though I think it was premature....once that boundary is set....you need to keep it in place or your wife will be looking for maple syrup to put on that waffle.

Still....I wish you'd come and posted before trodging forward....without perfecting your Plan A, or with full exposure if the affair has heated up again. I think you really need to find out for sure if there is or isn't recontact (probable)....because if there is, you need to do more exposure....specifically in the workplace. I prefer exposure to be done in Plan A...instead of B because you have a little chance to fill some needs after the big hit on the bank. However, if you discover that they are back in contact....workplace exposure sounds like the very thing to wake your wife up even from Plan B. You're scared of that exposure aren't you? Because your wife treasures her job. I know.

What is going on between your wife and daughter? I know your daughter is really upset....has she had a chance to tell her mother about her feelings? Does your wife's parents know what's going on? Do they like you? Are they some possible untapped allies?

In the meantime, now that you've jumped into Plan B, what are you doing to make this the protective and rejuvenating plan that it's supposed to be? No more suicide movies okay??? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> And for pete's sake...no romances either! Go see some comedies! I like the walking/exercise stuff. What else are you interested in? The idea is to get your mind off of her and what's she's doing....and revatalize your own life in a way that makes you happier (and of course irresistible).

You asked this question:

I don't think so....I know so. That doesn't mean there's any guarantee. However, I think your situation actually sounds more hopeful and salvageable than many marriages I've already seen recovered around here. I don't know how neglectful you were (another reason why I wish your Plan A was longer), but keep demonstrating changes whether she can see them or not. These things have a way of getting back to spouses.

I could give you some suggestions about how to deal with the BIL....but we'd prolly get another thread locked. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

I'm a Bw and reading a thread with bunch of BH posts is really helping me! Sorry it sounds sick but it is refreshing to hear dudes tell it like it is! LOL

Thank you for the very thoughtful and detailed post star*fish. I really do appreciate you taking that time. Your timeline is generally correct although I was dreaming of woodchippers much earlier in the process.

Regarding Plan B, I took her for her word that she was leaving to her folk’s house on Thursday if I objected (sneaking out) or on Saturday if I agreed based on the conversation she had with her brother and mother. She also made it clear in those conversations that she had no intention of returning home. She even introduced the subject to her brother of renting an apartment together. What a messed up “love nest” that would be. My mistake was confronting her that I knew the plan. I should have used this information better and played out the week with a more organized plan. Unfortunately once she was gone and we were essentially separated the only thing I felt I could do was Plan B. When she left she wanted to call every night to see how I was and maybe have a dinner every few days. As I told her mother when I brought the Plan B letter, I could not build my whole day and invest my heart around those few crumbs. That’s not living.

Regarding contact, it sounds strange but my gut feeling is he really has fled the field of battle. In three separate conversations I overheard with her brother and mother, she was asked about OM and all three times said she had no idea what he was doing and had not seen or talked to him. She would maybe lie to her mother but her brother is her confidant now and he would get the truth. On the occasion when I heard her tell her mother you could hear real anguish in her voice. Now is he gone for good? I am less certain on that.

When I look at the cell phone calls (note to Cingular customers: you can download your past years bills into an Excel spreadsheet and sort any way you want) it seems clear to me that she was the pursuer in the first 3-4 months of the EA. He seemed to really catch the bait around September after my mother died. Then the outgoing and incoming calls started to even out.

She is terrified of the implications of exposure at work and when she seemed earnest about changing jobs I hoped it was not necessary. Strange, but her fear of exposure to OMW seemed more based on her job than on the destruction of the A. Early on during the “run silent-run deep” part of the A, I told her if OM entered the picture again there would not be a person left on the planet that was not informed.

My IL’s know the whole story less the sweat and bodily fluids parts I am guessing. I believe they really do love me but will not raise a finger to her in my support. They are in their late 60’s and early 70’s and have a 40 year old (BIL) and 45 year old (WW) living with them because of infidelity. And a family rumor has it that a younger SIL who lives out of state may have walked this path once too. Incredible.

DD19 is processing what she has learned and has become very hurt and angry. She is currently dodging her mother’s calls and when they do talk she ends it quick. I have advised her that she needs to eventually share her feelings with her mother in order to start to work past it. She is also very upset with IL’s and BIL for enabling her through the process. She is particularly confused by MIL’s lack of support to me due to her outspoken conservative religious convictions, morals and values.

What do I do? I coach 6th-8th grade competitive girl’s basketball between 6 and 9 months a year. Sometimes I coach much younger kids at the local recreation center as well. I have become an avid perennial gardener over the past three years. I have an extensive history book collection and read daily. And I do love movies. All these things have taken a back seat the past few months but I am ready to renew them with a vengeance.

So why did she do this? Is she going to chase this OM or did the good feelings provided by the A make her want to throw herself back into the field for an even better prize? Financial growth and security have always been a top concern for her. She is throwing away a lot. She only earns enough to just get by on her own in an apartment. My old W would nearly perish under that kind of uncertainty and stress. What happens if DD19 turns her back on her? This should be an interesting show.

Regarding your movie selection advice, how about “Harold and Maude”? A comedy, romance ending in suicide. Brilliant!!

Hey Chrisner,

Renew, reinvigorate, recreate with a vengeance...time will heal the heart and ease the pain....speeds up the process regardless the outcome. Work on yourself and the things over which you have control.

Another thought for your time would be to insert your insights, wit and humor around these GQII boards. You were one of the reasons I registered so I have you to thank for my recent 'transition'. (Posted last night but I don't know how to link yet.)

Regarding your DD19, on Dday #1, our DD27 actually discovered the emails, could not confide in DS25 for an entire week, both confronted their dad who nearly opted for a date with a concrete barrier instead of confessing to me. (Daughter & son were right behind and that thought is probably why he did not keep that date.) They sat on the front porch and when my H went to get them, DD27 would not even come into the same room as him. She did not speak to him for 60 days....avoided, drove past if he was home....the works. But she warmed up eventually on her own and made the effort to reconnect, hugged in the driveway for what seemed like a half hour...I was peeking from the living room.

Our sitchs are a little different but the point is that adult offspring (not really children) need their processing space and the best thing we as anguishing parents can do is love them and give them space.

Hang in there, keep updating us and we'll be praying for you.

Ace

Ace,

You have got to be the most upbeat person in Betrayedville. Thanks for always checking in. I have followed your story throughout as well. Keep it up!

There is never much discussion about the adult children but they get hurt in this train wreck too. Today DD19 turned the phrase, “she left us.” Your advice on this seems quite sound and I agree.

I am going to a college hockey game tonight for fun. Cheap tickets!! I coach two basketball games on Sunday and am looking forward to these games more than any yet this year. My team deserved more of me than they have gotten these past few weeks. They saved my life during this time and I owe them big.

Maybe it’s a little of Ace’s sunshine coming through.

Ace, if you ever think you’re flying too high, go see “Letters from Iwo Jima” in an empty theater. That should bring you back to earth.

Have a great weekend. I think I will too.

Chrisner,

I am wondering, in your plan B letter did you leave your W a path back??? Most of them state that if the affair ends and there is no contact, then the Betrayed spouse is willing to open communications. What was the path you left for her?

This is very crucial both to you and to her.

I look forward to hearing from you. I too used to enjoy coaching kids basketball teams, it is actually more fun to coach basketball than watch it in my mind.

Must go.

God Bless,

JL

best movie suicide in a comedy goes to ... hands down .... the dentist in Altman's M.A.S.H. ... makes Maude's suicide look ... well .... maudlin <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

Pep

Don't start something that gets my thread locked Pep. If I get another thread locked they will probably kick me out. It would be like sitting in a theater all by yourself wathching a suicide movie. And don't say anything about woodchippers.

I would NEVER ....


you have to be REALLY REALLY BAD to be "kicked out" ... are you?


no no no

a comedy

make 'em laff

chrisner,

Ah, "Harold and Maude"....one of my all time favorites. *sigh* Senior year of highschool....Old Saenger Theatre....New Orleans. The Saenger wasn't orginally a movie theater....it was a grande lady who had seen finer days. I'm pretty sure that the movie theater was created from just the balcony area of the old theatre. It was chopped up in a rather strange way, and it had a ceiling that looked like the sky, with lit stars, framed by greek statues, and seats that were at such a severe angle that everyone was close to the screen. At seventeen, it was magical. I was dating Neil-the-real-deal (lead singer for the local band) and he had the same kind of strange beauty as Bud Cort....not handsome in a traditional way....but somehow irresistible with his clear voice, delicate features.....and gyrating hips of course. He was singing along with Jim Morrison "Don't You Love Her Madly" as we drove to Lake Pontchartrain and parked for the submarine races.


*screen spew*....note to self: read chrisner before or after food and drink. I can't help but thinking of that scene in "Fargo" LOL....that movie would be okay too LOL!


Even if you believed your foggy spouse....why would you let her plans dictate yours?


Okay...rule number one: Don't believe anything you hear from a WS, and only half of what you see.


Frick and Frack....how quaint.


It's water under the bridge....you went to plan B....but there were certainly other choices. Stay in Plan A was one of them. You don't have to live together to be Plan A. If she moved in with the OM....yep...go to B....but with mom, dad and Frack....you could have continued with the A plan for a while. Doesn't matter.


I understand. I think those "dates" could have been some opportunities....but again...let's try to make Plan B work for you. (And I think JL has the key! He's a great guy)


Well....this is both good and bad. Good if the affair is over. Bad if she still doesn't want to come home and now has the indepedence and vulnerability to make even more mistakes.


Seems like there may be some contact....but time will tell. Keep your ear to the ground.



Wow....kewl! I didn't know that....but it's powerful info.


If she works with this guy....why wouldn't it be necessary?


Yeah, I got that sense from your earlier post.


<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />


Poor old dawlins....guess they have their plate full. I wonder why all of their kids have fidelity issues?


poor chere....that's tough for her. I'm glad she knows the truth and that she's got you there for support.


How about writing? You're too talented to ignore your gift. Look into some avenues to expand and share your writing.


Most affairs are not about how great the OP is....but how great the OP makes the WS FEEL about themselves. How did your wife feel around you?


Hopefully....she'll reconsider...but JL is JUST RIGHT...she needs the blueprint to come home!! Did you give her a way to do that? What were the "Conditions for Reconciliation" in your Plan B letter? Did your letter tell her you loved her and didn't want a divorce. What was the last message she got from you? Love? Protection.....or Anger? Punishment? It's important!

How much weight have you lost on the "infidelity diet" so far? Are you sleeping? Get some new intelligence on the affair.....and read JL's post a couple of times.

star*

Hey Chrisner,

Your 'accusing' me of being "the most upbeat person in Betrayedville" was both honoring and startling. I'm thinking about starting a new thread (so I don't TJ yours) to explain why.

At any rate, I wanted to tell you 'thanks' and that I read everything you post. And I would buy any book you wrote, too. I honestly figured you were a professional writer of some sort because you write like one.

I am learning lots from the input you are receiving. I'm sorry I don't have much to add except for prayers for your family, especially your daughter.

I'll tell you one reason I am upbeat.....when my husband said it would be best if he just left and I surprised him by telling him to go (at 2 in the morning when our bags were packed for a vacation flight leaving in 3 hours), I meant it. I told him that since I had 10 days off, I would get the house ready to sell, we'd split the proceeds - and bills - and I'd be just fine.

When he stopped at the door, sobbing, asking for another last chance (his 4th strike), I said "that's it". One More.

Now, 3 months later, he says that when I said I would be fine, he saw me in a whole different light. And he wanted to be 'under the same lamp', so to speak. You mentioned the "Ace ray of sunshine" (again, I'm honored). I think it's because I took a stand....does it count as a Plan B if it lasted for 5 seconds?

So that's the present reason I'm so upbeat. His EA (and our transition towards recovery) has given us a passion and intensity for each other that I never thought I would ever experience given our past.

I'm thinking of calling my new thread:

" 'I'm 19, Never had a Boyfriend, Only One Man Will Ever See Me Naked' and Other Wrong Reasons to get Married"

OR

"After 30+ years of Existing, my Husband and I are now Passionately and Inseparably IN LOVE Because HE had an Affair"

Would you read it?

Ace

P.S. I don't need to watch a morbid movie to bring me down to earth....triggers and flashbacks serve that purpose often. I'm cautious, tho....I want my joy to be inspiring, never condescending....will you help me with that?

star*fish and Just Learning,

Thank you for you thoughts and information. Star*, you’re description of the Saenger Theatre and your times there was wonderful. I wish I could have seen it. It sounds like the perfect theatre to have seen Ridley Scott’s “The Duelists”.

Regarding the Plan B letter, it is modeled after the standard MB design. I looked at many at this site but I must say Greycloud’s letter he never got to send was by far the most effective I have seen for brevity, completeness, and the powerful message of love. I used his work as my template. Ending the affair is replaced with ending the separation and returning to build a new and better marriage. It covers all the required elements:

- Love and the desire to remain married.
- Acknowledgment of my failure in my responsibilities to the M and the desire to fix those things about me.
- Recognize the pain from the A but offering forgiveness and healing for both.
- Ending communication to preserve love and protect myself during separation.
- Opening the door at any time she wishes to discuss returning and building.
- Love and the desire to remain married.

It was short and to the point and might be the best letter I have ever written. Thank you greycloud. The ball seems totally in her court now.

DD19 dodged her mom all weekend but I am encouraging her to talk with her a soon as she is ready.

The initial blow of her leaving was pretty terrible but I am rebounding back much quicker than I thought I would. For the first time since Thanksgiving, I am able to truly focus on other things and have even had a little fun. Saw a great college hockey game Friday night and Sunday’s basketball games with my girls were a blast. I am getting a better picture of what life will be like without her after 25 years and although it is very sad, I will be fine.

Ace, I will read anything you write.

‘O Wayward One has descended from the mountain and made her decree, “Thou Shall Be Divorced.” I told her that was fine but I am not filing and this is her choice and she can do the work. I drank my coffee and went back into Plan B.

During the meeting there was clear fog that indicates some level of contact with Skirt Boy is ongoing. What a surprise. Throw in her idiot brother and enabling mother and it makes a real stinking brew.

Plan B has been going really great for me and in truth I am feeling it’s time to flush this nasty toilet anyway. DD19 is out on her own and doing great so I don’t have any children issues like so many others here. I think about the years of vulnerable recovery that would be required if NC is ever even established and I frankly don’t want to spend that time trying to pull her head out of her butt with a crowbar and comealong anyway. I deserve better and they deserve each other.

I have been spending the past couple days packing all her things and stacking them in the garage for a quick exit. From her venomous conversation with BIL that I recorded prior to her leaving, I already am clear on what she wants and have accommodated her completely. She has no idea I am doing this. It’s turning out to be pretty good therapy.

DD19 spent Saturday with me and we had a huge laugh about the thought of me entering the “dating joust” someday. She also told me I should have taken over the entire general housekeeping a long time ago because the old place has never looked better.

When I look at this amazing young woman I know that regardless how the marriage ends, it created something beautiful and beyond special. Regardless of WW’s rewriting of the history of our life together, I know in truth it was a very good marriage for a very long time and was a total success in raising an incredible daughter. Truly a mission accomplished.


We are not retreating—we are advancing in another direction.
--General Douglas Mac Arthur (1880-1964)

Ah yes - the WW enema - the packing of their belongings. I couldn't wait for that crap to be gone so I could assess the sitch at home. It must be a guy thing. Any and all pictures/albums were immediately boxed if she were in any of them.

My new house has a lot less stuff in it. It makes it easier to clean, too. It also isn't filled with stuff I never really wanted anyway...you know, the stuff that she would have to replace after she got tired of it?

If I want, I get to wear my shoes in the house; course, no one else can. But the best part? I can resole those shoes and wear them in the house some more! I don't need to replace them either...

The only thing needing replacing was the WW. Sure do miss the W, though...

Peace.

"The only thing needing replacing was the WW. Sure do miss the W, though..." - frankly

A very sad truth.

The Wayward Goddess pried out from DD19 that some of her things (the stuff she vehemently told dumb [censored] BIL she was taking) were stacking up in the garage. To this she replied, “I did not tell him he could move any of my things! I need to be consulted before these things happen.”

I get teary eyed just thinking of her pain. No wait, it was just gas.

Let’s recap:

- She withdrew emotionally and physically from the marriage.
- She has a workplace EA that evolves to a PA.
- She baulks at getting a new job to ensure NC. “We’re professionals and can handle it.”
- She moves out to live with her mother at “Infidel Hotel”.
- She informs me she has no intent on returning and is filing for D.

Now she wants a say in where I put the deck chairs on the Titanic?

Oh well, as they say, “Don’t wrestle with a pig. You will both get muddy and the pig likes it.”

You will be amazed at how much better your life will be in 12 months. On the other hand her trip to "destructionville" has just begun. She will be sorry someday for what she has done. You may or may not know about it when it happens, but it will happen all the same.

God bless,

Well I am off to visit the mediator with WW this morning and initiate the beginning of the end. I guess she needs to be promoted now to STBXWW with oak leaf clusters. She has passed along a couple of property “I wants” to her list through DD19. It’s strange but if she wants something my esteem for that item drops immeasurably and off to the garage pile of WW crap it goes.

The best part in all this is the Plan A and B have truly prepared me for something I don’t know how I could have faced four months ago. I am a much better and much stronger person now.

Well I have to go now, time to wrestle with that pig.


"Passion has helped us; but can do so no more. It will in future be our enemy. Reason, cold, calculating, unimpassioned reason, must furnish all the materials for our future support and defense." – Abraham Lincoln

Well I am back to work. The paperwork for the D is under way. If there are no problems it should be final around mid-June, about a month after our 26th anniversary. Serious bummer.

What a ride these four months have been. And what a testament all of this has been to the destructive nature of infidelity and affairs. At this time last month I really thought we were going to make it. One year ago I don’t know anyone I would have traded lives with. DD19, my wife and I were a solid bonded three-player team that loved each other and laughed together out loud every day. Now I live alone, my WW is in a fog at “Infidel Hotel” and DD19 is in tears and lonely at college. If life gave you a free “do-over” now would be a good time to use it.


"I like pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals." – Winston Churchill

comedy to dull the pain

I understand how you express yourself

Chrisner,

Sorry about your sitch but glad to hear you're feeling stronger. We all have setbacks and your wit and humor on these boards make things much more bearable.

Stick around GQII abit and let me know when your first edition goes to print. (I was in Barnes and Nobles yesterday and thought of you!)

Thanks,
Ace

Hey Chrisner...if you have time, can u read my pathetic (compared to yours) posts...you really are an awesome writer..any way, can you read my sad little posts, and respond, IF you have room for anyone else in your "friends" list...I'm sure you are quite in demand for advice and opinions...
Thanks.

It seems the Wicked Witch of the Waywards wants to start picking up her stuff in the garage this Saturday. I guess I better not buy the garage sale signs after all. Maybe I can tip the hutch over on her and steal the ruby slippers. Wonder what they would fetch at a pawn shop. Does any one sell roach eggs by the thousands I could toss into the dresser drawers?

No, I am not bitter.

WW told DD19 at their “clear the air” lunch last Sunday that the A is over and they do not contact each other. However she then told DD19, “But you never know what might happen after the divorce is final.” Right, there is no contact. Even DD did not fall for that one.

Well I have to go. Think I will do some YaHoo searches for roach eggs.


“Never hold discussions with the monkey when the organ grinder is in the room.” – Winston Churchill

“I still love you and care for you. If I didn’t I could be a real b!tch about this.” – WW one week after D-Day

I have NO DOUBT

that there will be a time when WW wants desperately to reconcile ... are you slamming that door & locking it and throwing away the key?

Pep

chrisner,

I have a sign in my office that says -

"Arguing with an inspector is like wrestling with a pig in the mud. After a while you realize that the pig enjoys it"

LOL

Just read quickly through your thread. You are a pretty funny dude. How refreshing and uplifting, even in the midst of incredible pain.

Pep,

"I have NO DOUBT that there will be a time when WW wants desperately to reconcile ... are you slamming that door & locking it and throwing away the key?" - Pep

Wow Pep. I have heard that happens a lot in these forums but I find that harder to believe than the affair happening which is still almost inconceivable. The W is so far gone now and all there seems to be is the rotting pod person WW in her place and I am none too fond of her.

Knowing her stubbornness the event you predict would be a long way off and I can’t see it happening prior to the D being final. Where will I be then? Every day now reveals new discoveries to me about me.

The house already looks very different, and truthfully much better, and I like it. The bedroom is beautiful and I like it. I can play the trumpet leaning against the kitchen cabinets at 9:00 PM and I like it. I spend less and less time thinking of her and wondering “what if I had” and I like it. Plan B at it’s Best?

So I guess I took all that time not answering your question. But if somehow you are correct, I do need to find my answer.

I am correct ... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> ... as usual

*snort*

Pep

Classic!

how do the neighbors and their dogs feel about this?

Just an interesting note.

Do you see the date I sign on to MB? 9-11-2000. (OMG--I've been on here longer than Pep! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />) Just THIS YEAR (that's SEVEN YEARS LATER, for the math impaired), my XH finally realized he had made a mistake and regrets losing our marriage. That's SEVEN YEARS...and I think he is just seeing it as "what he lost" not all the people he hurt and what he did to us. It's still, seven years later, all about him.

Soooooo...chrisner, some of them really never do "get it." They are too stubborn or too prideful or something, but they just can not allow themselves to admit it was wrong. They made a bad choice, and rather than admit they were wrong, they will back it until they die with more and more bad choices. Its sad really....

Your faithful friend,

CJ

P.S. What is a crafty pig called? CunningHAM!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

Pep

I am going to keep practicing until the police have to let me know how they feel. As far as the dogs go, payback is a b!tch.

CJ,

I read somewhere that almost 90% of walk away WS's eventually want to come back. Sometimes years later like yours, where the left behind spouse has already moved on and remarried. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

The percentage of WS's having exit affairs is very low compared to those that fall into an affair, never really wanting a divorce before hand.

Chrisner,

CJ is a newbie. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

Actually, Pep is very likely right and the reality is that often the BS has moved on. But, never say never. You two have been married a long time, and I am betting a lot of it was good...very good. Your WW will one day remember she once was simply a W with an H that loved and a daughter that loved her. She may then remember the times that were good. And then, she just might remember you.

One never knows what wakes people up, but the good news is that they often do.

Oh, and don't worry about how to respond if that happens, it is situationally dependent and unless you can foretell the future, you have no idea what the right response will be.

Hang in there and be there for your daughter.

God Bless,

JL

Well the Kilimanjaro of wayward stuff left the garage on Saturday. DD19’s new boyfriend came to help and was terrific. So far I like this kid. After her last boyfriend I told her I don’t want to meet another one until the person that’s with him is really her and not an actress in a skit. She remembered, because Saturday night she told me, “I’m really not having to be an actress in this relationship Dad” He has been giving DD good support and some real mature advice on dealing with WW and the time it will take them to rebuild their relationship.

This new kid’s dad left his family for an OW when he was just seven years old and then died when he was twelve. His mom never recovered and he has mostly been raised by his grandparents. Yet another affair trampling young lives and destroying families. That’s clearly all they are good for.

I am not sure what WW was expecting but for some reason seemed surprised by the whole event. I was very prepared and with DD’s BF we had her 14’ moving van loaded in fifteen minutes. No talking, just loading. After we completed the load I asked her to come inside and make a determination about a few things that could go either way. This was the first time she has been in the house in a month and things have changed a lot. When you look around there is no evidence she was ever here at all. I am not sure if she expected a half bare torn up mess but in truth the place looks really great.

I would ask her if she wanted this item or that picture and she suddenly started saying, “Well this is just too overwhelming.” She repeated this three or four times at the house and a couple more times to DD who helped her unload at the “Infidel Hotel”. I did not ask her to clarify but clearly it took her back a little.

I told her I would be ready for her to come back next week to sort through the Christmas stuff, kitchen items she needs to select and books (we have a lot of books) and then we should be all through in the house. I then told her that if we remain on the amicable path we have been on she would probably not have to see me any more that 4-5 times again before it’s over. She counters with, “Well there will still be DD’s birthdays and some holidays where we will always see each other.” I told her I don’t think that’s going to happen. She seemed a little hurt and said, “Well, that would be your decision.” I replied to her no, she has made all the decisions here. I guess this is the “we will still be friends” thing.

Maybe time will mellow my stance but right now I really don’t want to see her. Just as it is for the WS’s, contact is an emotional setback for the person still in love and that is clearly only me in this relationship. Saturday was a tough day for me. Funny that if all the Plan A’ing and Plan B’ing fail and the WS files for D anyway then the BS is the one that gets to go through the withdrawal too. Oh well, sucks to be a BS.

Guess it’s time to take Cher’s advice to Nicolas Cage in Moonstruck when he tells her he is in love with her. “Well, snap out of it.”


My advice to you is to get married: if you find a good wife you’ll be happy; if not, you’ll become a philosopher.
--Socrates (470-399 BC)

I prefer the immortal words of Socrates when he said, "I drank what?"

You're doing great. You're showing WW more class and grace than she has shown you...or has any right to expect.

Chrisner.


Sorry your heading for the DV forum, it is what it is.


I had such a great laugh reading your posts....


Your on the mark with "snap out of it". Moon struck is such a great movie...


King of Hearts is hilariously, fabulously funny old war time story about a town gone mad with a twist...


U will re-calibrate yourself and make it through the shock, numbness, profound dissappointment, disrespect and setbacks.

Skylite

I loved that movie. I took my very first “dating” girlfriend to see it at the Ogden Theater in Denver in 1977.

1967 Alan Bates and Genevieve Bujold mmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.....genevieve

Who was really insane at The Great War?

Plumpick (Alan Bates): I wonder, sir, if you have the right Plumpick, sir. You see, I’m an ornithology (carrier pigeon handler) specialist.

Colonel MacBibenbrook: This calls for a specialist, Pumpernickel. You think we pulled your name out of a hat?

Plumpick (Alan Bates): It’s the explosives, sir. I wonder, sir, if perhaps one of the chaps with ordnance may not do the job just a wee bit better, sir.


star*fish: Did they ever show King of Hearts at the Old Saenger Theatre?


bitbucket old man here’s one for you.

“A prayer is as good as a bayonet on a day like this.” – Color Sergeant Bourne

Sounds like my Saturday.

Christner,


That's just ducky! Wow what a incredible memory you have to remember those lines!


Amazing you have actually seen it. I first saw King of Hearts back in 1979 actually during a foreign film tripple bill fest.


Getting through the depressing Aguirre the Wrath of God and Lawerence of Arabia.


Such a long time ago that was, but seeing King of Hearts again is such all time classic with fabulous insights.


Of course Alan Bates does a supreme job and Genevieve Bujold the tightrope walker. The whole cast and story line is fantastic.


It was great to see it out on video again.


Since you have very positive memories from that time period might be worth re-watching again.

skylite,

Now that's real funny you mention Aguirre the Wrath of God. I saw that movie around 1982 with W (24 years before she became WW). I loved the movie and she hated it. It was a running joke for 24 years.

I love the end when the raft is caught in the Amazon River eddy with Aguirre (Klaus Kinski) chasing the goofy little monkeys from one end to the other. Sort of like an exhausted, starving, crazed BS chasing around those pesky yet determined WS’s.

Come to think of it she did not like Nosferatu the Vampyre with Kinski either. Now I am surprised she has not blamed him for the affair yet too.


"When the eagles are silent, the parrots begin to jabber."
- Winston Churchill

Christner,


No way you saw Aguirre, that is funny. You actually liked it??? The Amazon River was breathtaking.

I wonder how did you stay awake, descenting, dragging boredom factor alone.


Yeah, those 400 or so monkeys were quite the thing. The only thing that had any life to it.


Klaus Kinski, charming character that one is. Not.


You really need to own up and apologize to your wife on that one. Klaus is such a doom gloom downer.


Think a better pick might have been something like Lady Hawk...Now that's a thumbs up movie.


I ended up during that wk film fest at another theater watching some of Roman Polanski films. Talk about oppression, depression, and I paid money for that.


Thankgoodness, the Jungle Book came on.


Sir Winston Churchill -
- An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile - hoping it will eat him last.

Hi skylite,

I was having a bit of a pity party day yesterday so it was real nice to have a couple posts from you to read. Thanks! I thought I was getting a little more over the sniveling but for some reason yesterday was a small setback. And I hate sniveling!

I bet Klaus Kinski never sniveled. He may have been psychotic, strange, scary, deviant and a real catch with those Nosfuratu cauliflower ears, but he never sniveled.

Roman Polanski. Your right, he has been a spinner of some real happy tales. Ever see his version of Macbeth. What a gore fest. I think it was the first movie he made after Sharon Tate was murdered. I probably saw it around 1978 at the old Ogden Theater.

I remember Lady Hawke……..mmmmmmmmmmm michelle pfeiffer

Mathew Broderick looks the same 20 years later. How does he do that? My all time favorite Broderick scene is in Glory when he releases his horse on the beach just before the assault on Fort Wagner. He never says a word in the whole shot but it has always been a very powerful moment to me. The music in that movie helped the scene too.

And of course the Glory connection introduces Cary “Dread Pirate Roberts” Elwes in that Kevin Bacon kind of way. I have seen The Princess Bride has been mentioned and admired for good reason a few times on this forum.



“Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing ever happened.” – Sir Winston Churchill

Hi Chrisner,


Sorry to hear your day was a little sad. To be expected, perfectly normal. You have every right to go through grief. Like a paradox.

Look at how much you have accomplished. This is good.


Going through this experince is hard but not easy.


Now Klaus is a pro whinner I am sure of this. The raft scene probably due to losing his mascara wand, nail file and fake eyelashes in the water. The monkeys were really give him a hard time.


Polanski's a wild card that one. Think it was the Tenant playin at the time.Can't forgot Rosemary's Baby. His Mac Beth was grim gorrry.


After all those downer movies a few short months later my exh went waywardly down for next 20 yrs...


Marvelous, you've seen Lady Hawk/e...Such a kool story line. I love Matthew Broderick is the best. Rutger Hauer does a great job, and of course the beautiful Michelle Pfieffer.


I haven't seen Glory that I can recall. Have to think about that one.


Light Horsemen Gallpoli is another well done classic. Wow!



Another one which is a treasure classic, starts out slow is Babette's Feast.


Princess Bride too is a superb classic treasure. I read the book when it came out in 73 by William Goldman/Morgenstern is absolutely hilarious the best.


The movie leaves out so many hilarious parts. Goldman writing style, wit and brillance at distraction, takes one through funny tangents. The choice of multiple endings he leaves is just too funny.


Hope today is a better day. Grief emotional waves come and go out of nowhere we all go through it.


Actually I am big personal fan of Sir Winston Churchill.


His quotes/humor really got me through all my wayward exh lies, manipulations and alot of heartache to get to the truth.


Thanks for posting some them.
Cheers!


The truth is so precious & always surrounded by a bodyguard of lies.

Sir Winston Churchill.

Skylite,

I think we are becoming the MB’s version of Siskel and Ebert. I will let you pick first to be either the fat guy who gives everything a thumbs up or the dead guy with the more traditional Caligula thumbs down.

I always thought Churchill would have made an excellent late night TV host. Funnier than Leno or Letterman.

My Favorite Australian Movies:

Gallipoli (before Mel told us what he really thinks)
Breaker Morant
Walkabout
and
Peter (Fellini Down Under)Weir’s Picnic at Hanging Rock and The Last Wave

I had a much better day yesterday. Thanks for your thoughts and support. You can really feel Spring in the air today.


“Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm.” – Sir Winston Churchill

Christner,

I am laughing at that one.

Those loosey, goosey, boozy guys?

What get into a pro thumb wrestling match?

Making pointless pot shots?!?! Hmmmm...

Where would we get a wise crackin wonder dog?

Do you own a red foam nose, red shoes, or own a rubber chicken?

Thumbs, trump up. Churchill as TV host. Flaming brilliant!
No contest there between Leno& Letterman clones compared to Churchill.

Those are all really great Aus flicks.

Mel needs to stay in rehab.Take up gardening.Learn History/Theology." Forgive them...For they know not....

Gotta include N.Zealand.

An Angel at my Table. N.Z writer Janet Frame.
Babe. Pig in the city. Babe geez is there a more cuter pig.


Franco Zeffirelli films rrrr simply the grrreatest.

72 Release of Brother Sun, Sister Moon.
Graham Faulkner, Alec Guiness & Donovan's music.


Glad to know that your day went better.That's a milestone. Your on a new path. All apart of our adjustment issuses.
Springing forward is a good thing.

Have you snapped any snow peas to day? Real Fun to snap, make great salad/stir fry.


Most welcome.Encouragement& validation, really helps us move through the Big Yuck's.


Funny thing today. I was thinking to my self on MB we such have such a great brain/talent pool.


We could come up a superb witty drama loaded flick.


One movie title I came up waz as a spoof.


"Swift Kick Family Robinson".


Duhhh, soooner duhhh da better. Jackie Chan -Fun Fu- style.


"It is a mistake to look too far ahead. Only one link of the chain of destiny can be handled at a time."

Sir. Winston Churchill

More Plan B Stuff.


Recipe for Snapping Out of it.


Snow Pea Salad.


Easy Recipe:

1/2 lb snowpeas, trimmed strings removed. Snap em.
1/2 lb fresh mushrooms, cleaned, stems trimmed. Chop. em
1 large red bell pepper, cored and seeded. Slice/Chop.em
8 tbsp bottled reduced Italian dressing/or lite vinaigrette. Toss em.


Easy Steps:


1. Blanch snow peas, after you snapped the heck out of each one. Drop in boiling H20 for 1 min/until pods turn bright green.


2. Drain and plunge into ice cold H20; drain well on paper towels, pat dry. Cut pods in 1/2 & place into salad bowl. Set aside.


3. Thinly slice mushrooms; add to snow peas. Cut red peppers into thin strips; add to salad. Toss/shake veggies with dressing with lots of gusto. All in the wrist action.


Can add sauted chicken breasts, turkey burger, add sliced cashews, almonds to your salad.


Watch a good movie, enjoy!


Snap pretzels for snack special sound effects munchies...


Hope that helps.

Well I had to pop out of the Plan B gopher hole to sign the D petition paperwork with Wayzilla. I was rewarded with the paper work pursuant to Colorado Rules of Civil Procedures Rule 16.2 for all mandatory property and financial disclosures. What a pile of crap. It will take days to put all that together. The day before D-Day I was walking in my company's back lot in a stupor thinking of all the evidence I had put together and the coming confrontation and remember having the premonition that this will not end good.

I would love to have the universal remote to my life so I could just hit fast forward for a few months and be out of the other side of this. How can you believe or trust anyone in a relationship again? Why would you?

Oh well, as sdguy038 quoted Eastwood from the Unforgiven, "Deserves got nothing to do with it."

Best be getting back into the gopher hole. Hope all this crap paperwork will fit in there. I know a couple places I would like to stuff it.

I think I will head back to silentlucidity’s soiree with a bottle of bourbon wearing my “Don’t Talk to Me. I’m In Plan B” tee shirt.


If you are going through he!!, you better keep going.
--Sir Winston Churchhill (1874-1965)

Know just what ya mean. George Dickel is a very good friend of mine. I just introduced him to some coke.

You know, I remember getting that wonderful disclosure form myself, except it was the Ohio version. And I remember thinking the same thing: what a pant-load. Except for the stuff they could realistically verify, I made 90% of it up - just SWAGs for the most part.

I know how much you hurt - been there, done that. Any man who quotes Churchill has to be a good egg.

Divorce is like a night in the bathroom after eating at Taco Bell. You'll feel a lot better once it's over. And it helps that you have a great sarcastic sense of humor, it really does.

I really have to laugh at "wayzilla". I'd trademark that one. Oh, my xw's nickname is "Chewy", after Chewbacca of Star Wars fame. I even have a Chewy ring tone on my cell when she calls. Makes me laugh every time <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Be strong.

chrisner,

I am not an attorney, nor do I play one on TV, but two things. First, I am a 25-year Colorado semi-native--now transplanted to Oregon. I miss Colorado!! So your adventures, even the Colorado Rules of Civil Procedures Rule 16.2 for all mandatory property and financial disclosures paperwork, always bring me a special joy. I used to live near Golden--yet not so near that I could smell the brewery! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" /> So thanks for those excellent Colorado adventures.

Second, my exH took the Colorado Rules of Civil Procedures Rule 16.2 for all mandatory property and financial disclosures paperwork and created a work of fiction that would rival anything written by Tolstoy. I mean it was <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> FICTION. Despite the fact that I had proof that what he had sworn to in court was in fact false, the courts never bothered to even research it and just took his word for it. Thus, while I would NEVER advocate lying or purposely hiding assets, I can say that the endeavor to uncover the truth in a certain Colorado counties leaves something to be desired. So although the paperwork looks like "Please give us every financial transaction you ever conducted as a married person"--consult with your attorney and I'll bet ya that giving current bank balances will suffice.

Enjoy the foothills this weekend! Oh, and btw...<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> cute Plan B t-shirt!

Your faithful friend,


CJ

ITB,

That Chewbacca ringtone is funny. I bet if I look I can find the classic Japanese Zilla screetch tone for the same purpose. Best laugh I have had today!

Thanks!

Thanks for the thoughts CJ. WW was born in Golden. Used to like that town.

I just had to wade into the Discovery paperwork, Chrisner, so I feel your pain. I have trouble getting past how absurd the whole thing is.

See you round the soiree.

Gopher Hole?


They put water hoses down gopher holes.


Take the high road...


Wear your plan b t-shirt. Hit the party, with lots of scotch for medicinal reasons. You'll get to the other side cross side in no-time.



"If I had only known, I would have been a locksmith."
-Albert Einstein-

I have to finish my financial and property disclosure paperwork for the big D this week. I seem to develop an advanced case of ADD every time I work on this; “Well let’s see, the sum value of the paintbrushes in the shed would be….Oh look that sparrow in the back yard looks hungry. I think I’ll feed it for a few hours.” I have more enthusiasm cleaning the toilets than working on this paperwork. I currently have very clean toilets. Good chance this will all be over around the 4th of July. Independence Day? Our 26th anniversary will be May 8th.

A friend of the past 23 years came by the house on Sunday to see how I was. DD19 leaked what was going on to this group of old friends a few weeks ago. I have not talked to any of them for a few months. Like he said, nobody calls because they have no idea what to say. But I think this broke the ice again and it was great to see him. He was impressed with the house and yard and my attitude. He laughed and told me he was afraid he would have to wade through a debris field only find me passed out on the living room floor in my underwear lying on a mountain of empty beer cans moaning, “Wayzilla, come back.”

DD19 had a dinner last week with Wayzilla and I am told it was very short and awkward. Wayzilla started talking about tattoos and body piercing out of the blue. "Can you say mid-life crisis? Sure, I knew you could." This would certainly be in line with Gollum’s taste in women. DD19 summed up her thoughts when she got home, “Eeeewwww!”

Wayzilla again told DD19 that she has been desperately unhappy for a very long time and that DD19 should be happy for her and for her future. “WayZ” told her that when she gets her new place she will have a room just for DD for all the times she will spend there. DD told her to save her money and that on the odd chance she does stay there she will just sleep on the couch. This did not sit well with WayZ.

I think Believer posted recently that on of the worst parts of Plan B can be the boredom. I have to agree with that one. I am going to help a friend coach a JV level girl’s team in a Spring League so that will be something good.

The house definitely is looking like a guy pad now. The bunnies, puppies, framed needlepoint, and fairies are all gone replaced with Monet, Ella Fitzgerald, Wyeth, and a series of Lucien Rousselet water colors of Napoleon’s elite Guard cavalry. Much better.

See you at the Soiree.


"I know nothing about sex because I was always married."
Zsa Zsa Gabor (1919 - )

chrisner,

I find it amazing that after 26 years....divorce can proceed at this speed!! You must be so proud of daughter....she sounds like she's got an excellent head on her shoulders.

And BTW....I wouldn't be caught dead with that froo froo stuff in my house....give me Ella, Claude and Andrew anyday....I've got plenty of all of them.

Yeah....boredom is a pain....paperwork is worse! You need to have some fun.

Laissez les bon temps rouler!

I received an email from OMW this morning. Highlights include:

“Shortly after I spoke with you regarding OM & WW’s affair, I confronted OM about it. He did not feel he had done anything wrong…He admitted in having a very strong emotional affair, flirting, etc….Long story short, he was asked to leave the house and I filed for divorce in early February.”

WW admitted to the affair being a PA starting in November.

“I think we both have to face the fact that OM and WW have had, are having and will continue to have a relationship. Although I feel very betrayed and used, the real impact pertains to our children and how it will ultimately impact their lives.”

She goes on to indicate that this is the 3rd affair he has had in their 15 year marriage. The last one about six years ago nearly destroyed their marriage then. It was an EA (probable PA) with a co-worker at the company he worked prior to joining the company my wife and I worked at (I left there two years ago). This was the reason he had to make a job switch then. It was during counseling for that affair that she discovered a prior affair in the marriage. Exact same thing.

“He picks out someone who is feeling needy and vulnerable, gives her attention, tells his troubles to and becomes “buddies” and whatever else happens in between.”

She then correctly classifies him as a committed serial cheater and offers:

“After he is tired of WW, he will move on to the next woman that “needs” a shoulder to cry on and listen to his troubles. He gets bored after awhile, and does not like to deal with the maturity of relationships.”

Wayzilla will not know any of this about his past. She is on a runaway train headed for Broken Bridge Canyon without brakes. I have no idea what to do or if I want to do anything with this information. WW would not believe it based on the source anyway.

I am curious though; what would you do?

My first thought was that what I would do would depend on my goal. But....LOL....if my goal was divorce, or my goal was reconciliation....I think I'd still forward it. Either way, believed or not....it would still probably create some nagging little doubts and icky conflict in lalaland.

star*fish,

I was kind of thinking the same thing. Maybe leak it to MIL at Infidel Hotel via email. Could make life there more fun. I am always about a good time!

Chrisner,

Ya, I would probably send it, but ya know having a good time isn't all bad either. It is truly sad, what is happening. However, I do see somewhat of a silver lining. Your DD19 is showing you what she is made of, and you should be very proud. Further, she is getting an education in how to handle things and what the future can hold if one loses "the plot" as the Brits say.

As for your W, yup the gulch is fast approaching and the bridge has been gone for a long time. It seems with this OM, the bridge probably was never ever built. Down into OM gulch she is going to go, with predictable results, Wil E. Coyote, nothwithstanding. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Hang in there.

JL

Hmmmmmm...... I think it could do MIL a little good to see in the OMW's own writing what damage her DD45 (Wayzilla) has wrought to an innocent woman and her 2-year old son. Maybe just a little guilt over harboring and enabling two infidels in their 40's?

Added bonus is for her to hear what a scumbag Gollum really is and the destructive path Wayzilla is on.

I think star*fish is right that playing this card does not really have a down side.

I hope the pending crash is painful, but not fatal.

Pep

You're right--the crash is imminent. I think mine is in for the same kind of thing, although maybe not quite so quickly.

Don't know what to say about forwarding the email. You already know that OMW will have been demonized by OM, and that Wayzilla will be predisposed to disbelieve anything she says. I think the dark Plan B thing to do is to do nothing, although I understand your desire to get the information to her.

Oh by the way, I did send a short thank you back to OMW and clarified that in spite of OM's claim of innocent "strong emotional affair, flirting" behavior the affair did indeed include sweat, moaning and bodily fluids......BAAAAAARRRRRRFFFFFFFF........

sdguy you are right but I think I may just have to come out for a couple minutes into a really "Twilight" Plan B on this one. In my case there probably is not much to lose anyway.

I'll be eager to hear how it goes.

Your daughter sounds cool. I'm really glad she gets it.

chrisner,

If it were me, I'd try to get the first names of the two OW in the case, and just drop the WW a little email....


WW,

Have you ever asked your OM about XX, or YY?

chrisner



Curiosity will work its own little magic. If he won't answer her, it makes her wonder. If he lies, she will KNOW he lied, and creates distrust in lalaland. OM will be upset, etc.......WW will want to know more about who the ladies are......

No matter which way he answers, the distrust will be there, and her curiousity will eat her up. She will go to the ends of the earth to find out who they are. And NO, he hasn't told her this!!!

Makes for a wonderful scenario.

I would for SURE break a Plan B for this one-liner.

SB

chrisner, your 'guy pad' sounds much better than that frufru crap. It sounds sophisticated, like a GROWN UP lives there.

Your DD19 ROCKS. She is OH SO SMART, and strong. You should be very proud of how you have treated this whole sitch; I think what you do, as a parent, directly affects how your DD will see reality.

I'm with SB, I like leaving a little mystery as to why you are asking, letting the fireworks begin...

Schoolbus and SL,

Sweeeeeeeeeeeet! I will look into that.

Chris,

You can also be sure that OMW is working her own end of the bargain by now.

LB in turdland tonight.

I wonder if they serve popcorn?????

Don't you wish you had a hidden video for this one!

Speaking of LB in turdland, I wish I could be a fly on the wall when they talk abou this one... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

Well I forwarded the emails between OMW and me yesterday on to MIL with the following cover:

MIL,

I received your card last week. Thank you for the kind thoughts.

I decided to share with you a short exchange of emails that I had this week with OMW. This is only the second time we have had contact throughout the affair. The first time was when I rightfully chose to expose OM and WW’s affair to her on January 5th. I doubt we will ever have the need to contact each other again.

Regardless of what has been said, there is little reason to doubt that the desire exists for one of, or both WW and OM to resume their relationship as soon as the inconvenience of their marriages are resolved. Even if on the odd chance that this is not true, as WW’s mother, I would like you to have some input into nature and character of the man who was a very central figure in the total destruction of two marriages and all the pain that it has inflicted on so many.

If WW is privately founding her future happiness on a demonstrated serial cheater incapable of controlling himself even at the expense of losing his own two-year old son then I am sure I am not alone to fear for that future. Ending her marriage, losing her home, risking her financial future and possibly doing significant permanent damage to her relationship with DD19 is quite a bet to place on such a shaky hand. I am sure that because they in fact know very little truth about each other, WW has no idea concerning OM’s past infidelity issues.

I hope you are well. Please give my best regards to FIL.

Chrisner


This should be interesting. I wonder what she will do? Think I’ll get in my lawn chair, grab a lemonade and see if the feces impacts the rotary oscillator. I will see if I can do a little digging to get the names of the other two OW’s in his past. Turn out the lights, I’m back in B.

be sure to give an update when you have one .... pass the lemonade and a Tums

Pep

oooo, the poo thickens. Oh, NO I mean PLOT, yeah, that's right, that's the ticket. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Well I saw MIL opened her email finally today. We are both on AOL so I can check the read status. Let the good times roll. If she does talk to her DD45 (Wayzilla) she will no doubt buy happily into Wayzilla’s lies. MIL does not know that a loud wet rhino fart would contain more truth and make more sense than anything that comes from Wayzilla’s mouth. But it should put a brick of concern to all. My IL’s enabling desire just to be sure that poor Wayzilla is happy and doesn’t crush any more cities really pisses me off. I wanted OMW and her DS2 to have a name and a voice to remind MIL just what a huge and damaging event her daughter instigated.

The Initial Status Conference for the divorce will be set tomorrow and will occur some time in the next 30 days. I am pretty much done with the disclosure crap so I guess I am ready. This conference and the meeting to mediate the division of property could be the last two times I ever see her. No one is going to blink so this divorce bus will be going all the way to the final stop.

DD19 is dreading being invited to Infidel Hotel for Easter which should happen in the next couple days. She told me she plans on spending the day with me but I suspect WW will put the pressure on. I told DD to do what she wants but be sure to do it for the right reasons. There has been more than enough hurt spread around these past 4 months.

My train wreck sure seems to be moving faster than most here. I cringe at that statistic that says it takes 1 year for every 5 years of marriage to recover and be ready for a new relationship. That would be over 5 years for me. I’ll be checking out the babes at the nursing home by then.

Chrisner...

I was thinking the same thing about 1 year for every 5. That would be about 4 years for me.

Still

Hey, Chris. It sounds like you're doing okay. Let us know what happens with the ILs. I was communicating with my MIL for a while, but I think she started to buy into what WW is selling. Once MIL forwarded one of my emails to WW, I have them in a blackout, too. I'm sure this is okay with them--they are comfortable with their heads in the sand. It has been really tempting to pass along the information that OM is lying to WW, but so far I have resisted the temptation.

Dealing with the ILs is a frustrating one. I definitely believe that in my case (and probably most), the parenting skills of the ILs contributed to the WS's susceptibility to infidelity. I suspect they react from some defensiveness as well as loyalty to their own blood. Very frustrating.

I don't know about the 1 year for every 5years of M thingy. I would say that two years after a D, if you are really focusing on moving forward, should be good.

I dunno, apparently. I'll cross that rickety ROPE bridge hanging over a canyon once I cut through all of these briars and jungle foliage... ( Oh and, of course, AFTER I D.) <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Silent,

Do you mean May 1st I can't go find a boyfriend if my D is final? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

I'm thinking .... I don't know what I think anymore...Calgon take me away.

Still

NOTE TO SELF:

My exH's family (my IL's) were not aware of the extent of his cheatin' ways because he convinced me that it was "between us" and that if I told them, I was "airing dirty laundry."

Well you better bet your bootie that once he pulled some of the stuff he pulled, I told his family EVERYTHING. Okay--I take that back. I did not tell every detail, but I did not hide anything from them and told them the full and complete truth...HOPING that they would go, "(huge gasp) YOU'RE KIDDING! Well that is unbelievable behavior. Of course we will tell him to stop being an idiot and return to his children and wife." Haha! That was Not Exactly their response. It was more like this, "Well...he's our son/brother and we hate to see you go but blood is thicker than water." They wouldn't stand up to him even ONCE!

So whilst I pray that your IL's are brave folks who will stand up to your WS's stupid behavior and reverse babble them, I suspect it is at least conceivable that they will avoid conflict and just say nothing--and then eventually get pissed at you for not sweeping it under the rug with them.

Don't get your hopes up TOO high.

Your faithful friend,


CJ

Hi CJ,

No, I have no real hope regarding the situation. My marriage went from a very hopeful looking one on this forum to one on its death bed in six weeks. My marriage is on life support, the power in the hospital went out and there is no gasoline in the backup generator. She will not stop this divorce and I am not going to fight her.

I did this because these people have to understand the devastating impact infidelity has on so many people’s lives. You can’t just turn around and pretend it’s an unhappy little event between WW and me. They have two over 40 year old children living in their house rent free because of their sick affairs with married other people. MIL told me one day, “I’m just so happy that DS40 (Idiot) and DD45 (Wayzilla) have a warm and safe place to stay.”

BIL has three sons, 7, 14, and 16. We have DD19. OMW has a DS2. Five children hurt by infidelity so the affair partners could grope around and sweat in the back seats in the dark. This crap is sick and they act like it’s a little tiff.

And again you’re right. There is no one on the other end who can or will receive and understand my message. But I had to try. OMW’s DS deserved a voice to these people who will never see him. I challenge their oft stated deep religious convictions. Typical religious hypocrisy. When put to a real test, their values fail. No surprise.

Wayzilla sent another funny terse little email this morning. She has been after me to scan some of the old studio portrait shots of DD19 through the years that we have in frames. I never respond about it and she seems to be getting her blood pressure up a little. Don’t think I will respond this time either. Too much to do.

- Sock drawer reorganization.
- Tupperware inventory time.
- Sockets need sorting in the garage.
- The lint filter in the dryer needs cleaning.

The list goes on and on. I think I get to the things she wants me to do at the bottom of page 7.

These dumb little digs they try to put in to you to remind you they are still out there are hilarious. She seems to be stepping that up a little the past couple weeks. Feeling a little stressed?

Just another 5-6 months of living in her mother’s spare bedroom and she will be able to get her own Love Shack. It will have lots of chickens and bunnies and fairies on the walls. Until then they probably will all sit on the porch of Infidel Hotel at night and listen to BIL play Dueling Banjos. Maybe Gollum can learn the guitar and they can do the whole duet. The whole group will look like a dumber less talented version of the Darlin family from Mayberry. Gollum would be Ernest T Bass making Wayzilla Charlene Darlin.

You are just too funny....

You know your humor brightens up our days here.

You could always add to the list....picking lint out of your belly button <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Still

Or getting the sock fuzzies out from between your toes.

This made me laugh a little....when DD13 was little she would sit and pick between her toes all the time! Getting every little imagined fuzzy out from between her toes. She also used to sit and pick underneath my fingernails for every little speck. Her own version of monkey grooming, I guess.

...and don't forget to mark your calendar for the Sippy Cup Awareness meeting that you chair every Spring...

Oh, and the Glue gun hotline that you set up.

Yuck, I just had a bad visual image of Gollum and Wayzilla squatting down, nose to nose picking the bugs off each other and eating them. Symbiotic soul mates.

Must……Not……Think……About……Baboons………DooooHHH

OMG!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> My co-workers must think I've finally gone off my rocker. That totally made me honestly LAUGH OUT LOUD! Not just a little loud but LOUD!

hahahaa <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Thought of my own infidels doing the same....ugly red-butted baboons!

Chrisner,

I am very sorry for your sitch. The OM in your sitch sounds a lot like my H, this is his same MO to seek out women who are needy and tell them how misunderstood he is, miserable and they want to "save" him as much as he wants to "save" them. I'm convinced that deep down the two people involved in these types of A's think it through and totally realize on some level what they are doing not only while they are doing it, but before.

The OP in my sitch would not respond positively to news of my H's other A's. She would say that this is just further proof that we were never meant to be together, I don't understand him and she does. So, I would say that at best you might reach MIL, but not WW by sharing the e-mail. Especially if the A is still on-going, it will just be further justification/rationalization I'm afraid. In your case I think your WW still sees you as her fall-back plan and doesn't realize or accept that her actions could in fact close that door to you. I hope for the best for you and I love your sense of humor and class in dealing with your sitch. You behave very admirable.

Chrisner,

Sorry you are here and for what you are going through. But I must say, YOU are a RIOT!!!

Thanks for brightening my day, sort of ...

The MIL thing cracks me up. "We just want our babies to be 'happy.'"

OH BROTHER ...

Somehow they sound just like the OW, don't they?

What a load of crap.

I'd sooner string my babies up and beat them like pinatas before I'd allow that kind of "happiness" to invade my casa.

(shudder)

And my babies KNOW it.

Chrisner...your wit and humor will help in this mess...I promise.

- Kimmy

The “Initial Status Conference” for the divorce has been set for 9 AM March 24th. How happy. I understand if all goes well and civil this may be the only time we need appear in court. It is conceivable that with the property disposition mediation meeting, these may be the last two times I see Wayzilla before the D is final. Then she is free to openly grope and sweat with Gollum in public without the unhappiness of being called an adulteress. Then this beautiful, heart warming, nurturing relationship is free to soar in sunshine with the bluebirds until the hydrogen bags ignite and it comes down in Hindenburg style flames with the buzzards picking at the charred remains. “Oh, the humanity!”

DD19 and I had a great weekend. We went to the WNIT Championship in Laramie between Wyoming and Wisconsin. Over 15,000 people showed up to watch the Cowgirls win. Laramie went nuts. We came home, went out to dinner, rented movies and had popcorn. Sunday I coached in three games (2 JV girls and 1 6th grade boys). Great weekend. Wayzilla never called DD once. Hmmmmm.

I went shopping for supplies at Super Target Sunday morning with DD19. I have found myself surprisingly open and gregarious in public recently, smiling and talking to everyone. Have any other Plan B’ers found this happening? I left several people in the store laughing when we rounded an isle with the shopping cart and walked right into an “It” woman.

She definitely had “It.” She was the right age, convex in the right places, concave in the right places (stop reading SDguy) pretty hair, pretty face and she probably knew she looked real good in those jeans. I smiled, said something typically stupid, we laughed, we looked at each other and moved on. Arrrggggg.

DD19 pokes me in the ribs as we moved away and says, “Dad, she checked you out!” And I responded, “DD, I am very happily married until your mother’s stinking divorce is final. Until then I am Abstinence Man.” DD19 replies (in regard to the divorce), “Then gitter done Dad.”

As a final note to the weekend, I found out DD19 has loaded a special ringtone for incoming calls from WW; “Ding Dong the Witch is Dead” original 1939 Munchkin vocal version. What has Wayzilla done to herself?

Chrisner, I just wanted to say YOU ROCK! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> And your DD sounds like a pretty awesome kid. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I wish the very best for both of you....you deserve it.

Lori

The time will come, my friend. Until then, you're doing great. I'm happy you have such great support from your daughter.

"Oh, the humanity" is one of my favorite quotes. Are we related somehow?

Yello, brother.

This is just a brief post of encouragement & love, & for you
to know I am sending continued energies of buckupitude &
stiffupperlippitiness.

I told you I came in to read & keep up (you're hard to
get on the phone once in awhile- you're posting in here,
tying up the line LOL).

I have read most, if not *quite* all of your posts here.

Read in the sippy cup thread. Well, *I* always knew you
had it in you. Mark Twain, H. Allen Smith, H.L. Mencken-
you'd make the guys proud.
You make me tremendously proud, as you know (or to tell you
now, if you never did), and you always have.

ew. public display of affection. hope that's cool.

One of the worst moments I've had in awhile was the evening
we said goodbye and goodnight over the phone, and knowing
I was leaving you in tears. I hated hated hated the thought of
you being in such pain. It hurt me, too.

Our busy, married lives have kept us apart more than I
(now) realize I would have liked for- well, for all of our
adult lives, pretty much. I think you have a 27th wedding
anniversary coming up (april?), and this year will be my
25th.
Anyway, since our communications have become a bit more
commonplace in the last few months, it reminds me how much
I have been missing.

You were the steady kid, the plodder, the rock, the sensible,
focused, get-things-done-cause-they-need-done personality,
I was the wierd one, the flake.
Probably not much has changed.

Along those lines, you know I have been pulling the
occassional card or three for you (well, really *for* me,
*about* you.
Hoping for insight, maybe.
Maybe hoping to glimpse what is down the road, hoping to
see something new, something illuminating.

Well. The cards fall less into the startlingly revealing
category than they do the repetitive "bleedin' obvious" one.
How predictable. (look- heheheh a pun)

WW comes up all the time. Along with charming cards like
'debauch'. (well tell me something i *don't* know).

I am at least reassured that *your* character remains intact
through all this (I will say that comes less from a deck
of tarot cards than it does from talking to you on the
phone).

And while I don't take it for granted, and I know
(I have seen and heard) you have up and down days, I am
able, day by day, to let out a bit more of a sigh of
cautious relief as I gain more confidence that you will,
you are, making your way across the channel. Covered in
crisco, true, and beaten by cold waves and getting all
waterlogged, yeah. But making it.

I have told you already, but it bears repeating here,
that I have inexpressible gratitude for the people here,
who are helping you (WAY more than I ever could).

sdguy, silent lucidity, wild horses.. everyone. thanks for
helping save my brother.


~ your sister

It's a pleasure to help people here, because we help each other. We are symbiotic here.

I hear in your post what I suspect my sister felt when I called her two summers ago and could barely talk through tears. She hurts for me, she aches when I ache. She's angry and sad for me and my son. Your love is MOST important to us sibs.

Luckily for us, there isn't much time to 'Oh, Whoa is me' because we come bearing human and humanity to help each other. These people are my brethren (sisteren, too) and I feel what they feel. It's quite a unique place.

aww..geez. I just got that lump back in my throat again.

Your brother is a HUGE asset to this board. I have so appreciated his humor, his upbeat attitude, his stories of his DD, and how he ALWAYS jumps in to back one of us up or give us a little nudge to pull it in a little before we do or say something crazy to our waywards.

Even pulling the Batmobile out so he could and sdguy could hold my WH while I got in a few good kicks. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I hope I have been able to give him even a tiny bit of that back.

This was an incredible post to your brother. What a great family you must have. Even during those times you don't know what to say, just let him know you are there. That makes all the difference in the world.

Oh man...now I've got tears...

Beautiful people you have there....

(sniff)

Beautiful post, (do I have to call you toadeater?). It's nice when people understand what we have here. Once my mom started really following my thread, she had one of those moments--she got inspired to call me up and comment on how great this is for me. I know she feels the same level appreciation about all of you. She might even post to that effect if she were more, um, technologically savvy (I still think she was the one who made the first Sippy Cup Slip).

All the residents at Infidel Hotel seem to be losing it.

Friday night Wayzilla tried to use BIL’s DS7 to guilt DD19 into going bowling with them. It was a pretty low and cheap stunt and made DD19 angry that a 7 year old was used like that. She did not return the call.

Saturday DD19 finally answers the “Ding Dong the Witch is Dead” ringtone and is invited to a MIL barbeque spectacular on Sunday. She could hardly contain her excitement.

Sunday and the big day arrives. As she has done for the past 2-months, DD19 brings her best friend with her for protection. Naturally Wayzilla does not like this friend at all any more and has expressed her desire for DD19 to stop seeing her.

So much baffling weird crap was said and done I can’t even tell it all.

Idiot BIL seems to have given up on his affair with the MOW (yep, right at the 2-year mark). He’s gone legit with an actual single divorced woman with a DD12. Wayzilla told DD19 that his MOW was “taking too long” to leave her husband and he had to move on. I guess the MOW must have had concerns leaving her marriage for a 40 year old penniless moron who lives in his mother’s basement. His new girl friend is now Wayzilla’s “mostest and bestest friend ever”. Of course none of our friends of the past 25 years will talk to her.

DD19 and her friend felt like the whole event was some sick attempt to blend all these kids (BIL’s DS7, DS15, DS17 BIL’s new woman’s DD12 and our very own DD19) into this new hillbilly “happy family.” DD called it “creepy and weird.” BIL’s DS17 who has struggled terribly with his dad’s infidelity and divorce would not talk to anyone or go near BIL or Wayzilla and exchanged a few sad and knowing glances with DD19. Insert your barfing emoticon of choice.

At some point MIL scolded DD19 with, “This is your mother (pointing to Wayzilla) and you need to call her and keep us both informed on what you’re doing!” Yep, another Love Buster. DD19 said she had to bite her tongue for what she wanted to say about her mother and resist leaving right then.

DD’s friend scored a few points. She knows she is getting under Wayzilla’s skin so she turned on her Valley Girl clueless chatter imitation and started telling Wayzilla and MIL how awesomely clean and tidy the house is now and how much fun DD19 and I are having on out Saturday’s out because DD19 talks about it all the time. DD19 jumped in and talked about the high schools approaching me for coaching opportunities, my looking to be a volunteer at the History Museum and the “funny story” about the woman “checking me out” at Target. This was met with stony silence from the audience. God bless them both. I took them to dinner Sunday night.

As for me, I am doing great. Saturday with DD19 was an unbelievably good time and we laughed all day just like the three of us used too. The History Museum, the Botanical Gardens, book and CD shopping and lunch at one of our old favorites. Hearing about the day at Infidel Hotel closed a couple more doors for me on that which was our marriage.

Plan B 71 Days
No communication 37 Days.
Initial Status Court Hearing April 24th.
Wayzilla: 45-1/2 and still in her mother’s spare bedroom.

Awesome. Made me smile and feel good. Glad to hear you're doing so well.

I LOVE your DD19 and her friend! Can you imagine the looks on the faces of the others? Good for her!

Had my own drama again this weekend with WH, I'll update soon on my thread. I was able to give DD13 a few pats on the back for sticking up for herself this weekend.

Glad to hear you are doing well. 45 and still at mama's - what a great life these waywards choose.

Aguirre, Wrath of God -
I simply loved it. LOVED it.

I LOVE YOUR DD19 and her VALLEY GIRL IMPERSONATING FRIEND THAT WW LOATHES!!!

Living a true, good life is the best way to go, isn't it? Your DD and her friend PROVED THAT when they spoke up about the cleanliness of your home and how happy they were when there and a part of YOUR LIFE.

I say next time, tell your DD to LOOSE THE HOUNDS on MIL. Your daughter is a young woman making her own decisions about what sorts of people she wants in her life. PERIOD...

Friend, I just started reading your thread and it is one of the few on here which has actually made me laugh out loud.

I am so sorry you're going through this, but I am very confident that your WW will one day see what a horrible impact she has had on your DD19 and you. The sad thing is that you will move on and put this behind you before your DD19 does. This will have a very big impact on her and her future relationships. My parents divorced when I was 25 so I can relate. My sister was younger too. We both got into relationships that weren't balanced or healthy and have paid the price for it. We didn't have our intact family to go to and get sound advice from. We didn't want to deal with either parent. On my end, it took a really long time before I had a good relationship with my father and that really only happened after he and the mistress split.

Your daughter is awesome but she will carry a heavy weight over a strained relationship with your WW.

I would encourage her to not do anything she doesn't want to do, which may include not seeing her mother much, but that is ultimately her choice and I wouldn't force her either way on it. She'll make the choice herself but you should re-assure her that she shouldn't be forced to do anything out of guilt.

I withheld my anger at my father for a long time and it simply exploded one day. I really let him have it and my fiance at the time said she hoped I would never be that angry with her.

This sucks and I can only imagine how hard this is. I would like to recommend dragging this process out as long as possible to make life difficult for the WW. Unless you're happy to let her go.

I'll read your whole thread tonight. Some of the stuff you've written is very funny.

If we can't laugh at life's worst moments....don't know how to finish that one.

Thanks MD,

I have worried a lot about the longer term effects that this change of relationship will have on DD19. Sometimes I can see that anger in her that you talk about. Wayzilla has absolutely forgotten how close of a family we were and how much DD19 believed in and depended on US. She honestly thinks that because DD is 19 and out of the house now that she would just shrug her shoulders and not care. Nor does she have any concern about the awful example she has shown for handling mature relationships. But of course that is true of all the waywards who have trampled over their children’s lives because their short term happiness is far more important.

I am very proud of her.

"No, MIL. Wayzilla is the ADULT in our relationship--I am the CHILD. SHE is supposed to call ME and stay in MY life. SHE is the one who chose to leave ME, not vice versa! If she wants to be informed about what I'm doing, she can be a MOTHER and return to her CHILD!"

(polishing the points on my devil horns)

Good for DD19's Valley Girl BF!! Maybe a little tiny bit of the light of truth will pierce that fog-fest! (rolling eyes)


~~CJ

P.S. You know, chrisner...you tell us jokes about Wayzilla's fogginess, and DD19's brilliance in seeing through her mom's babble...but you don't tell us about YOU. How are YOU doing?

Hey CJ,


I think I am doing pretty well. Although occasionally boring and lonely, Plan B has wonderful insulative qualities. Anger and depression are fading fast now and are being replaced with reflection and acceptance.

I know I am very fortunate and very grateful in my situation not to have young children like so many others in Plan B. I feel deeply for my friends and their children here who are fighting that war.

So what was I up against?

- WWs MLC during the following milestones: 25th Anniversary, DD19s HS graduation, DD19s departure for college, WWs grandfather passing, my mother’s passing, WWs 45th birthday.
- An office romantic EA and PA.
- The A becomes an exit affair.
- An OM who is a 3 or 4 time cheater and is set free after exposure.
- WWs main confidant is BIL having his own A with a MOW.
- ILs are totally enabling of WW in her effort to D.
- Enough marital assets to split for WW to easily begin new.

Pretty heavy odds. I fell asleep at the wheel and then brought rocks to a gun fight.

I do not think Plan B is having any effect on Wayzilla at all. She is patiently waiting in MILs house for her divorce payday (and it will be sizable) and will then buy a place of her own. She is very stubborn and very patient and has no intention of being part of my life again regardless of the outcome of her A. Her MLC will demand a new lifestyle.

I know that Wayzilla is not going to wake up as W for many years and in my real opinion, (apologies to Pep) probably never. I have chosen to consider W as lost at sea and presumed dead. I can stand at the shore and wait for her unlikely return or turn my back and move to my new future. I am done mourning. It’s time to go.

I choose life. And I at least have the knowledge that DD19 will always be a part of the life I choose.

DD19 is having a bad day. MIL called yesterday and DD let it go to voice mail. When she reviewed it later it was a sarcastic, rude condemnation of her lack of communication with Wayzilla and the inhabitants of Infidel Hotel. DD19s reaction was to NOT call some more. This morning she has received two calls that she rolled to VM. One from Wayzilla and one from MIL. She called me a few minutes ago teary saying she is sick of this and does not even want to listen to the VM’s. I told her to have some lunch, settle down and then listen to them. Maybe it’s nothing. I guess we will see.

Now I really am picturing General Schwarzkopf narrating the infra red image of an F117’s laser guided missile going through the picture window of Infidel Hotel at 2:00 AM. I will stay up all night to watch that. Pay for view.

They just can’t accept that MAYBE Wayzilla’s choices have something to do with DD’s feelings and that MAYBE those same choices will actually have unpleasant consequences for Wayzilla. Oh no, the only possible acceptable outcome will be Wayzilla’s undying happiness and satisfaction. Talk about a HO down!

Sorry. They stepped on my DD’s toes and I’m pissed.

chrisner, MIL's love to justify their baby's actions. Lord knows they can do no wrong.

Hey, my kid went through the same thing. She's an adult. Young, albeit. But right now she has a clearer head than than her mom and grandmother.

Just sit back, chrisner, and watch it all unfold. It won't be pretty, but remember, you didn't do this.

Nothing to be sorry for.

chrisner,

Note to self: Your DD may act like she's grown, and she is CERTAINLY more mature than Wayzilla! However, she is still a kid, and this may be a good chance for her DAD to come to her rescue a little.

Here's the thing. A "kid" does not have the authority and power that an "adult" does. In this instance, one mature way for her to respond would be for her to speak to Wayzilla and say out loud, "I do not communicate with you BECAUSE your choices and actions have hurt me. I loved you. You were my parent. And rather than thinking of me and what your actions would do to me, all you cared about was how you felt. Well, that's your choice. You chose to walk out of my life and now I am choosing to no longer communicate with you. It is MY choice! So you and your mom respect me enough to stop your sarcastic, rude remarks on my voice mail." But that assumes that DD19 is on equal footing with her mom. As a kid, she is not. Mom has the upper hand in both authority and power.

Sooooo...maybe if DD wrote something like that, and it was backed up by DAD telling Wayzilla and MIL to end the abusive VMs or the phone number is going to change...maybe they'd get the point. Probably NOT--because they are in LaLa Land--but still, you will have done the right and proper thing in defending your DD.

Your faithful dead head friend,


CJ

P.S. You are documenting the harrassing voice mails right? You are documenting their abusive demands of a child, right? This is stuff you can use in a court of law!

I like that advice, CJ.

DD19 is really strong--we all admire her--but she can probably use some help with this. It's an awful thing for her to have to deal with, on top of all the other awful things.

Has she said the things CJ recommends to Wayzilla? Does she want to? Is that how she feels?

Chris, go home, talk to your daughter and prepare a reply to both Wayzillarouski and Mamazilla.

It is time to stand as a united front. You standing a half step in front of your daughter. She will need to be the one to respond, but you are there to back her up.

I think changing her cell number would be a good next step. Also, reminding Wayzilla that DD19 is still the CHILD dealing with the dismantling of her family.

Thanks CJ, RLT SD and SL. Good advice all. Thank you. You are all good friends.

DD has tried to avoid all conflict on the matter. A few times I have told her if it reaches a point she needs to back away that she needs to let her mom, and now probably MIL know. I try to be careful so I don't put words in her mouth or give her a script. That's not easy. It has to be her words. I have a whole bunch to say but it would turn right into Plan FU. And what a Plan FU it would be! One for the ages!

We will talk again tonight and see how she feels. She has mentioned a couple times of sending an email to WW with this message. I think Wayzilla and MIL honestly think that she has had plenty of time to accept and move on from the destruction of her family. "Oh my, why does she resist so and prolong our tiny,tiny pang of guilt and hurt our feelgoods?"

You can see the grainy green picture of the missle crosshairs on the front window even now.

I would encourage her to come up with a message and deliver it. Having avoided delivering this message is completely understandable, though.

In the massive corporation for which I work, we have lots of initiatives on things we can do to make things better. (Guess how I feel about most of them.) One of them that was particularly crammed down our throat was to establish a "Culture of Coaching." We all coach each other, and in doing so improve performance, bla bla bla.

The learning I took away was "If you see someone doing something and know that they could do it in a better way and don't tell them (rather, offer them the opportunity to receive the coaching), you aren't doing them any favors." One could make an argument that you owe someone you care about this kind of feedback. I'm trying to say this gently, because delivering the message of disapproval of amoral behavior to one's own parent must be incredibly difficult. It should also be quite powerful, however. It could be as simple as "I'm sorry, Mom, but the way you're behaving makes me not want to be around you."

You're right that it should be her words. And I wouldn't pressure her to do it, but I would encourage her to do it.

If you do go Plan FU, promise to record it somehow. We can show/play it at future MB get togethers. "Hey, you guys remember when Chrisner went Plan FU? I've got the tape to play." "YES!"

WOW Chrisner, you are truly an inspiration for a freshly betrayed spouse like myself also heading quickly to D-land.

Never lose that great sense of humor, you can also add me to the list of people that LOL reading your posts and having their days/nights brightened!

Will be prayin' for ya!

It was a pretty quiet weekend. The calm before the courtroom meeting.

DD19 came home and worked on school work and studied for tests. I played study buddy on Sunday quizzing her (with one ear on the Nugget game). We got out a little for lunch and dinners. Otherwise it was just a lot of housework and yard work.

I asked DD19 at lunch on Saturday if she thought about what she will do once WW’s affair relationship becomes “legitimate” after the divorce is final. She thought about it for a little and said, “Wish her a nice life and say goodbye.” I told her time will alter that opinion and WW will always be her mother and eventually they have to find their peace. She agreed that time probably would change her stance but admitted life is a lot less stressed with WW so out of her picture and she frankly likes it. I think mother/daughter relationships are difficult enough not to add in infidelity and the destruction of the family into the mix. DD has almost gone totally dark now on the residents of Infidel Hotel.

I am not sure how to best handle this estrangement. It took my bosses oldest son 12 years to marginally resume his relationship with his mother after her infidelity and their divorce. She has been married to her affair partner for over 10 years.

DD added that if she ever does have to meet Gollum in the future she wants to kick him so hard in his Rocky Mountain Oysters they come out his mouth. Where does she learn stuff like that?

Oh boy! Court tomorrow. Bitbucket, it’s time to give the old Norwegian Blue parrot another good shake. I will post up if anything fun or interesting happens.



Wayzilla

With a purposeful grimace and a terrible sound
She pulls the spitting high tension wires down.
Helpless BS’s on the subway trains
Scream for God as she looks in on them.
She picks up a bus and she throws it back down
As she wades through the buildings toward the center of town.

Oh no, they say she's got to go—
Go, go, Wayzilla . . .
Oh no, there goes old Tokyo—
Go, go, Wayzilla . . .

with apologies to Blue Oyster Cult (and everyone else offended as usual)

I love to read your posts Chris, you have a great sense of humor. Good luck in court tomorrow!!!

How about modifying that to "Don't Fear The Reaper", eh?

Your daughter will, eventually, find a new relationship with her mother, but it is going to take YEARS, and Wayzilla is not going to like that, not one bit.

Chrisner,

I empathize with your daughter. My parents did this when I was 25. My father ended up marrying his mistress. This happened after a warning from me.

My sister and I both refused to go to my father's house if OW was around.

I passed through there one day with my baby daughter and my wife (now exww). I was standing outside of his house borrowing his car when OW came out of the house. I would be dam*ed if I let her even get a glimpse of my baby and I also had no clue how I would act around her. I honestly felt pure hatred towards her. I immediately got in the car and sped off.

We didn't stay at his house. It was understood that I would never do so and I stayed with my best friend's parents.

You're right, it will eventually get better with her mom, but her mom is clueless as to the pain this is causing her daughter. Your daughter wants to protect you. She wants to stand by your side and not have anything to do with Wayzilla because she hates Wayzilla. She loves her mother, the one she knew and grew up with, but hates the wayward mom.

This anger will build up and could very well explode one day. It did for me. I really let my dad have it one day when he was trying to make us three kids feel guilty about tolerating something my mom was doing when he's the one that caused all of this. I swore I was going to hit him that day. He was shocked by our angry reactions. All three kids exploded on him in a torrent of anger. We held it in for a long time and really let him have it. He left with this tail tucked between his legs.

It is hard because you're the betrayed and it is very easy to let your daughter become your confidant and the person you vent to. Avoid doing this. Remain her parent and remain concerned about her feelings.

I can also tell you that my parent's divorce was a big contributor to my sis and I staying in bad relationships. It was as if we were wanting to find something good for ourselves and we settled for the people we were with and it was the very wrong kind of people.

These are all things you can talk to your daughter about. It is ok to tell her that you understand how her world is falling apart just like yours is, but that you're still her dad and are there to listen to her fears and troubles. Advise her to express her feelings to her mom through an email or letter.

The last thing Wayzilla should be doing is making your daughter feel guilty about not wanting to be around her or talk to her.

Your daughter should make it clear to your W that she will likely never go over to her house while she's in this affair and will never accept that man. That's what your daughter feels inside and it is ok. Your W needs to understand the consequence of her actions and the fact of the matter is that we as parents are expected to take care of our kids with no expectations in return. Afterall, they never asked to be born.

I think it is ok for you to talk to your daughter about her feelings and encourage her to communicate her feelings to her mom and not keep them bottled up inside. In the future, your daughter may not be so self controlled at a Wayzilla family funcion, especially if OM is around.

Nothing helpful to add just wanted you to know all though the Spurs lost the first game they ae going to beat the breaks off the nuggets.

Chris, I like what Brokendreams posted. It was eloquent and heartfelt.

I hope that you daughter will, one day, take the time to write a letter to her mother telling her about her pain. I don't care who you are, when your own child expresses their pain, it cuts right to the core.

I can see by rereading my post that my last point wasn't too clear. When I stated that as parents our kids owe us nothing, I meant that very much applies to your W.

Your W doesn't deserve respect when she's done so much to lose it and she has no place to demand it from a child simply because she is her mother.

Your W doesn't understand this and the only person that can possibly get through to her on this is your daughter, not you. I can tell you, though, that if there was one thing that would enrage me as a parent against her is her attempt at making your daughter feel guilty about not wanting to be with her. I would become a bulldog at this point, defending my child against the wayward.

Looking at it objectively, though, the wayward would likely take any angry defense of the daughter as simply another excuse to continue disliking her.

Your daughter, however, owes your W nothing at all. Not one single thing.

The best thing your daughter can do to get the message across to your W is to not do a single thing on Mother's Day. My father went through this for a long time before I ever thought about simply calling. I still can't get him a card because it is hard to buy cards "For the best dad in the world" etc, when I don't really feel that and so many of them are that way. Your daughter will feel this pressure and you have to walk a really fine line of being her parent and telling her how to behave towards your ex.

I would do it like this:

Sit her down and say, "Sweetie, you're my angel and I love you more than anything in the world. Your mother will always be your mother, but I would be a fool to think this isn't burning you up inside. I can't tell you how to act towards your mom, but I can tell you that I will support you in however you do wish to act. I won't tell you either way what to do. Your relationship with her is yours alone, but I feel it would be wrong for you to be pressured in acting one way or another either because of me or because she pressures you to behave in one way or another. You owe me nothing. You owe her nothing. We brought you into this world and it is OUR obligation to love you unconditionally and raise you.

We did a beautiful job and you are living proof of that. But our job is not done as your parents. I will always be there for you no matter what.

Don't let the anger and sadness you have inside eat you up. Don't let that anger come out in other ways or make you vulnerable to bad relationships or friendships.

Let yourself grieve. You lost the family you knew and grew up with. It is dead. It is ok to grive it.

Your relationship with your mom is also dead. A new one will emerge from this mess, and it is ok to grieve the loss of the old one.

You need to let your mother know how you feel and I will support you in whatever way you chose to do so.

I won't tell you what to do because it would be wrong of me to do so."

Or something like that.

Heck, if you want, I can write her and tell her how to deal with this as an adult.

She is an adult, like others have said. But even as an adult the last thing you wish to see is the destruction of the family you knew and loved. She is at a very vulnerable age, just as I and my siblings were.

My brother was 12 when he went through this and he was very misbeahved throughout his teens and turned to heavy pot smoking up until recently.

I was engaged to a crazy woman and had a string of bad relationships with women that were totally wrong for me. They were women with tons of problems. By focusing on their problems I could forget mine.

And finally my sister got settled in her relationship for someone who was a workaholic.

All three of us dealt poorly with our parent's breakup.

You have an opportunity to gently coax her into getting help to have her deal with these feelings.

I wish you an her luck.

brokendreams,

Thank you for you thoughtful reply. I appreciate you taking your time to share your thoughts and experience. The callousness of a wayward mind even toward their own children is beyond my ability to believe. It’s bad enough for the BS but the children? I still have no idea how my wife became this person.

It’s time for bed. See you all on Perry Mason.

They are clueless.

Later, however, when the fog clears they look around and see the devastation the have wrought on the people they love the most.

I believe my father deals with this guilt regularly now. I have forgiven him and we get along well, but I'd be lying to you if I said I didn't resent him for what he's done.

I really believe that my wife would have had a much better relationship with my family if she hadn't met a bitter angry woman that had been brokenhearted by her husband and had instead met the loving, caring, welcoming woman she was before the divorce and the infidelity.

You will get angry as time goes on. It is part of the healing process. Just be sensitive about that anger towards your W in front of your daughter.

Complain all you want about OM. He's nothing to either of you. Just be careful about what you say about your W.

Your posts make me laugh and I really enjoy your dark humor.

chrisner---today your big day?

How appropo the weather, ha?

Good luck. I'll be thinking about you.

Thinking of you, chrisner. Update when you can.

The little green man will survive Wayzilla.

Here for you Chris!

Yello, bro. me again. excuse the nonchalant use of capitals
in the following-


brokendreams:

you express *very wise words*

"Your W doesn't deserve respect when she's done so much to lose it and she has no place to demand it from a child simply because she is her mother."

totally agree.

"The best thing your daughter can do to get the message across to your W is to not do a single thing on Mother's Day."

(that one, ESPECIALLY)

"It is hard because you're the betrayed and it is very easy to let your daughter become your confidant and the person you vent to. Avoid doing this. Remain her parent and remain concerned about her feelings."

again, so right, and I know what a good job he does with
this part of it all.
(I kinda make a point to feel stuff out once in awhile).
But he's a smart one, my bro. A smart cookie. No flies on
him.

DD knows she really only has one functioning parent right
now. maybe for good.


the sons and daughters have been, are, every bit as much
betrayed.

the (unavowed on paper) sanctity of the love, honesty
and trust in the unit called Family and the bond between
parent and child has been clawed at, ripped open, violated.
the most intimate core of their environment is gutted to
allow in horny strangers. YUCK.

even while the wayward is busy at the same time
swaddling themselves in layer upon layer of armor-
denial, defensiveness, self-absorption, all the delusive
crap. *Against their own children*

for me, it just repeatedly defies belief.

the inhumane callousness (and worse) of waywards towards
the pain of their own children is about the most disgusting
aspect of the whole thing.

It makes one itch to employ just a little bit of spiteful
hoodoo just out of a feeling of general contempt.
(Well, maybe not "one", maybe that's just me.. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> )

Bro, it's so great that you open up big opportunities for
A to talk to you, ask her good and pertinent questions, but
that you don't necessarily push her, either.
It's just good the two of *you* don't need *strategies*
to deal with one another.

You said: "I asked DD19 at lunch on Saturday if she
thought about what she will do"

It's so masterful. You keep tapped in, there's no force,
you are giving her as much information as you could hope to
get back (not that I think A is going to be elusive and
withdrawn with you, she's proven that to my satisfaction over
and over), but just a reminder about aspects of things to
come, that these things are on the way- good stuff for her
to mull over.
She must be also very relieved to hear and see how you
comport yourself. (mostly, it's been pretty good <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> )

*looks at plastic talking Simpsons wristwatch*

well, he's headed in this morning sometime soon I believe.

good luck, brother.

*lights a candle*

The wayward doesn't get it through their thick skull that they aren't just cheating on the spouse, but on their children as well.

My ex still doesn't get this.

I told my son that his daddy left *US*, his family, not just me, and that DS can talk to me about that. I still can't believe that I'm talking to my 4 year old about this. Poor kid, he's only 4 and his foundation is cracked and some has settled deeper. I worry for his future, emotionally, which can, in turn, cause so many outlying problems. Oy

Send the report when you're back from court.

We're here for you, buddy.

Luuuuuuucy, I’m home!

If I continue to play nice and we stay civil (not hard to when you are in a dark Plan B) on June 13th 2007 the judge will pull the file out of the cabinet like Excalibur from the stone and declare, “Thou art divorced!”

9,532 Days of marriage.
1,361 Weeks and 5 days of marriage.
26 Years and 36 days of marriage.

Gone.

The burning question on everyone’s mind; How did Wayzilla look?

Ill and sickly. She was a kind of grayish green color under the courtroom lights. Everyone else in the room looked human. I have not seen her at all in 74 days but DD19 and her friend had described this. She has lost more weight that she can not afford to lose. She must be taking triple doses of noassatall. She was a once beautiful woman who has now turned to a sickly colored skeletal mannequin.

We sat before the magistrate for just under four minutes. Then Wayzilla, her attorney and I went to a conference room to talk about the “what next” of asset dispersal. She had two specific requests regarding money dispersal and a joint college fund for DD19 using my deceased mother’s savings account. I said no to them all and they gave in without any fight although my request of no future joint managed accounts clearly pissed Wayzilla off. Her attorney’s response to each was to look at Wayzilla and say, “Well, that’s how Colorado would like it too.” This all took less than five minutes.

Then her attorney asked how was DD19 taking this? It was quiet for a few seconds and I told him she is not doing real great. As Wayzilla is the petitioner he intuitively knew the source of her issues would be with Wayzilla so he quizzed her on her contact with DD etc. I knew he would never have been told of her A so when my chance came I took it.

I praised WW for her patience with DD and not pushing too hard although of the people in the room only she and I knew that her patience is waning quickly. Then I said I hope she understands how very long she may have to be patient and that the damage done to her relationship with her daughter may take a very, very long time to heal. Her face was complete unbelieving shock. Her attorney agreed with me and echoed my advice on patience.

Then I told her that if this had just been a divorce between two people who tried but ultimately had to agree to disagree, and DD would have been along during the process she probably would have come through pretty good. But her choice to introduce an affair partner into the marriage and then break the family hurt DD deeply. Her attorney sat up.

She shot back snarling the old, “That has nothing to do with our divorce.”

I said nothing, but her attorney leaned right to her and said, “But that’s not how she feels about it.” Score one for Little Green guy!

I told them that I have broached DD on IC and would like to see if we could get her into some sessions. Her attorney agreed enthusiastically and offered to forward a couple names he has worked with in the past. Wayzilla just sat there with this shocked look and maybe just a hint of “slowly dawning”. I told her how my bosses son has only started to reinitiate contact with his wayward mother 12 years after the divorce. The words “12 years” hit like a hammer.

She started to ask me to please reinforce to DD happy things about her mother. Her attorney interrupted her and advised her that I had to be very careful myself how hard and what I push on DD to preserve my own relationship with her. Who’s paying this guy? Little Green guy whacks off another Wayzilla toenail.

Then out of the blue Wayzilla loudly pops out that the source of DD19’s problem is the bad influence of her best friend (she is the one who went to the BBQ at Infidel Hotel). Stunned silence. It embarrassed me for her. My mind thought if DD19’s best friend takes an affront to infidelity she needs more friends like that not less. But I did not say anything (are you listening CJ). Her attorney very sincerely thanked me for working so hard with his client on DD19’s recovery.

Meeting adjourned.

Wayzilla still can not accept that she has any role in her daughter’s hurt feelings. It may just now be sinking in how deep the damage is. You could almost see her mind reeling with how she was going to begin a legitimate relationship with Gollum if her DD can’t accept the affair. But all of us here know that she will totally turn her back from DD if this comes to pass. DD19 knows this too.

50 days of my marriage left.

Whoa, Chris, I am crying, you did so beautifully. I am so proud of you. What a strong person you are.

I forgot to tell you, I'm paying Wayzilla's attorney a little 'under the table' money, to make WAKE UP calls during the proceedings. What a good attorney. Good boy!

Score one for the Jedi Knights!

Yeah, chrisner! Glad to hear the little green man got some points made.

You're an incredible man, keep up the great work. And don't think we don't appreciate how difficult it is to keep quiet at times. That is a HUGE accomplishment!

I told my mom the other day that she should be proud of me. Lately I've been trying to follow some advice she gave me as a child "if you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all". No wonder WH thinks I'm ignoring him!

I'm proud of you, chrisner. You did a good job getting your WW to get a couple of "aha" moments that didn't look like they were coming from you.

Yeah...

We didn't tell ya, but it's the Killer Bees fund for to WAKE UP WAYZILLA!!! I believe it is possible that for a very few seconds today, she MAY have had a small glimpse of the damage she is doing by choosing Gollum over her own child. However, I have absolute faith that she will go right back to blaming you for everything and putting pressure on DD19 to "treat her with respect" when she had done nothing to earn it.

Chris--I am mighty proud of you!! You did VERY well keeping your mouth shut and letting our deep, DEEP, DEEP undercover agent do all the talking for you. If YOU had said any of that, Wayzilla would not have heard a word...but at least this way she heard it at least.

Your true and faithful friend,


CJ

GREAT job! It sounds like you really held it together well.

Scary to see how deep the delusion is. Why can't this barrier be penetrated? It still amazes me.

What's your sense? Did it come off the way you were hoping?

Good for you! Can I take lessons? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

:::I'm not worthy, bowing at your feet!::: <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Rin,

TJ, Are you up?

Still

Wow Chrisner, that's a good recap. Love the Wayzilla desrcipto and the green guy is tops!!! Either he is bowling you over or he is a clever one. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> I opt for the 2nd. If more WS' hire him....it will make the BS' lives much easier. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

You did great. Hugz to you and your Dd. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

L.

Great to hear!!

The bees are ahead by two!!

It is amazing to me when the waywards attorney's offer a dose of reality. I have been going through similar things with my ex.

Unlike you, however, I haven't always had the self discipline to stay quiet and I think it is very admirable of you.

I strongly believe your DD should write Wayzilla a letter. Hurt words from you would do nothing compared to the razor blade cuts she would feel about words coming from her daughter.

It is amazing to me that she actually believes that if her friend wasn't in the equation as an influence that she thinks her daughter would be ok.

My ex is the same way. She thinks the kids will be just fine with no acceptance of the fact that step parents, step kids, and mixed families are the number one indicator of divorce above anything else.

Mixed families are a huge challenge, but you have a grown daughter, so that won't be a huge issue for you.

I seriously admire your strength. I know you may not feel it at times and I'm sure you do your fair share of crying, as I did, but you have been strong around Wayzilla and that is very commendable. I wish I could borrow what you have and used it a year ago.

Congratulations. Don't make anything easy for her.

Unbelievable brokendreams. She thinks her best friends distaste for infidelity is damaging DD19.


My sister's husband asked a very, very sobering question last night when he heard about WW's physical appearance and color. "Does Gollum do drugs?"

The thought had never occured to me and hit like a brick. The unthinking knee jerk belief is "Oh no, she would never...". But for 25-1/2 years I believed to my core and with my life that she would never have an affair.

For whatever is left of WW I have to hope for her that it could not be sinking that low. The question has left me a little in a daze.

Well, it is certainly grounds for asking for a drug test. You can bring it up with your attorney.

Take a good hard look at her and see if it passes your sniff test.

Congratulations Chisner. I think the proceedings went about as well as you could have hoped. WW is getting a reality dose of with DD and her friend who will not support her fantasy. Good for them. Be the rock for your DD and she will never forget that.

The waywards are capable of anything (see the article about wayward stabbing 3 year old son after OMW outed their affair and desparate astronaut, and WW who killed husband and cut his body into pieces and dumped it in the river). Nothing the wayward person does anymore surprises me. They are and have truly gone insane and carry a little evil with them as a badge.

Hang in there.

DRUGS <~~~ was the first thought that came to my (medical) mind when I read your description of how Wayzilla physically appeared

Pep,

If I had not been married to her for 25 years it would have been the first thing through my mind too. I have had several manager training sessions over the years to look for things just like this.

I so dearly hope for her that it is just the stress and the guilt being surpressed deep, deep inside by what little of W remains.

Have DD pull a hair from WW's head

Chisner:

Late to your thread. Congratulations on your mind set if not for why you had to get there.

Echoing PeP,


First thing I thought of when I started reading your thread.

Since your daughter is of age, you probably have no grounds for a requested drug test. This is something to keep in the back of your mind should DD19 decide to start seeing more of her mother. Drugs would explain a lot of what I read in your story.

Larry

Probably no need to even go that far Pep. She has lost a lot of hair since I last saw her. Her brush would probably be full of it. MIL has very thin hair now and Wayzilla started having early issues with it the past couple years too.

But it really surprised me how much hair loss she has had since I saw her last.

SORRY

Chris, that's a scary and sobering thought. At this point, would knowing make any difference to you? (I say that off the top of my head and haven't thought it through either way.) I expect that I would want to know. Maybe it would make things easier to forgive. Don't know.

The A alone can make the WS appear t/b an addict. I questioned my then WS as well.

Still if you can get a sample of her hair strand, maybe you can get confirmation for your peace of mind.

L.

No SD, in truth it would just make me want the next 49 days to pass all the faster. I wish her no harm but I have no control over her life. She has chosen her path. If this were somehow true, it will become known soon enough and I don’t need to go looking for it. I just don’t need it to happen in the next 49 days. Orchid’s explanation still seems the most probable one to me. For WW’s sake I truly hope so.

After the experience at court yesterday, and with her embarrassing affair fogenese she barked out in the conference room I really know now that I no longer love her. This is now all for the best. It is best for me and I will do everything I can do to make it the best it can possibly be for DD19.

She gave me the best of everything she had for over 25 years and I will never forget her for that. For those years she truly deserves my thanks. It was a great marriage and that’s how I will always remember it. . She was a beautiful, smart, caring woman who could never say no to anyone who needed help. Together we brought our incredible daughter to adulthood. I was always proud and lucky to have that woman at my side as my life's best friend, my lover and my partner. I never thought it would end. But that woman is gone. And clearly in her mind, that man is gone too.

We may not even have to see each other again to complete what we have to do to finalize the divorce. If so, one of my last memories of her will be her walking off into a driving snowstorm from the courthouse looking alone, frail and defeated on the 26th anniversary of my proposal to her.

The lights have been extinguished in the lighthouse.

((((((((((((((((((((((chrisner)))))))))))))))))))))))

I am very saddened to hear that the lighthouse has been extinguished. I clearly remember the day the last little candle blew out in my instance too. and even while your head knows it's the best and wisest thing to do, it's still a little sad.

However, I tip my feathered tiara to you! Raise your glasses everyone! Here's to chrisner and his wonderful new future! From this point forward you can hold your head high, because you behaved morally and faithfully in the face of enormous pain. I have to say that personally, I admire the way you have handled yourself at every turn, and you are the kind of gentleman a true lady would look for. You have many qualities and characteristics that show deep character. So here's to you, chrisner. You have an emotionally and mentally healthy future ahead, a smart, wonderful daughter in your life, and hey...you're in the Rockies and it doesn't really get any better than that!!!

TO CHRISNER!!!


--CJ

I second all that!

My glass is raised to you! TO CHRISNER!

Here here! SLAINTE!

May the road rise up to meet you,
May the wind be always at your back,
May the sun shine warm upon your face,
the rains fall soft upon your fields,
and until we meet again,
may God hold you in the palm of his hand

Chrisner,

That was absoultely beautiful what you said about you M and W and your years together. I admire that you can see past the pain.

Need to wonder do the WS"s ever look at thier M the same way.

You are going to make some lady a very happy woman some day with the love you have to share. Ladies in the rockies prepare yourself there is soon to be a wonderful man free and available.

Still

No offense, Chris, but your plan B is being ruined by your DD19. Plan B is a means of protecting what little love you have for your WS and allowing the OP to try and meet all your WW's emotional needs by removing yourself completely from the horrible situation. Through no fault of DD19, you are getting daily updates of your WW's wayward behavior which are continuing to make love bank withdrawals. If there is any slightest notion of a hope of getting back with your WW before you move on (and I wouldn't fault you if you did move on), you need to sit down with DD19 and tell her that if she needs to talk to you about her mother, that's okay, but other than that, you would like to hear nothing about her to protect what little love you have left for her. She will understand. Plan B is always hard when children are involved. You need to further distance yourself from Wayzilla's madness.

Absolutely no offense taken Jim. I am very truly glad you posted on my thread. I have followed your story for the entire time I have been at MB and have silently but enthusiastically cheered you on. You are without a doubt the Sir Galahad of the Knights Against Infidelity and the Order of Exposure.

In spite of what you have read here I have almost no knowledge at all of what WW is doing. When she left our home I ceased in all activity of trying to monitor her love life. Based on the fog talk etc I have heard I have no doubt she is still quietly active in her affair. DD19 is actually working overtime to avoid any contact with her mother and the last thing she wants to know is about the status of the affair. She is no source of information regarding WW’s affair at all. When the divorce is done I believe their relationship will be happily displayed for all to admire.

I am fairly clear on the goals of Plan B but I have many strikes against me. I have an entire household of supportive (and fairly wealthy) family enabling and rooting my WW on to her goal of happiness. Even with split finances she has no problem making any ends meet. They have completely replaced me as a financial need. I have no doubt he has replaced me at all emotional and SF needs. In addition, when this divorce is final WW already knows she will have close to $175,000 in liquid cash (yes that’s right) and another $200,000 in investment assets. She is not sweating and will probably have the patience to sit in her Mother’s spare bedroom quite a while for her payday. I have no leverage. I have no weapons. She has all the weapons and the high ground.

I have lost and must surrender. I long ago realized I have only the choice to lose or lose very badly. I have chosen to simply lose.

My only goal now is to help DD19 to the very best future she can achieve with or without her mother. I don’t know how that will turn out. But the irony is that WW stands to lose the most valuable asset we have through her own selfishness and entitlement.

Yes Jim, my loves light has extinguished, but it had nothing to do with DD19.

JMCW,

No offense but Chrisner needs to not only think of himself but his daughter. If she needs to talk to him for her to help herself cope (i.e. he is part of her support group and she a part of his group), then he should listen.

What they should and probably have done is bond together. Then it w/b or s/b the family against the WS. Together they are strong and the WS doesn't stand a chance. Separate, is questionable.

When children are involved we as parents do NOT want to cut off their lifeline support.

L.

Thank you Orchid, It took me ten times the words to say what you simply said.

Chris,

I raise my Sippy Cup to you, mis amigo. I think you've done very well and should have no regrets.

Around here, there's no question that you are a huge asset. You provide way more support than you take for yourself and always brighten everyone's day. I always look forward to your posts, and I know that everyone else feels the sameway.

Salud.

SD,

I will sneak a little bourbon into your Sippy Cup. Will you be in LA for the party? DD wants to know.

Gee, I feel honored that she wants to know if I'll be there. I wouldn't miss it. And I'm looking forward to meeting you guys. Will she answer to DD19?

I don't imagine I will have my kids with me, but I haven't projected the schedule yet.

Chris,

I just thought of something. Don't you live around Denver?
You might find this funny.
This was a very good friend of mine in high school.
Check it out.

Used to play Ping Pong at this girl's house

LOL

44 Days Left.

My marriage is now 99.538% over. Need to make the best of the last .00462% remaining.

You can feel the rolling thunder and ground quake from the Wayzilla "Happy Dance" from here.

BC: That's cool. I have seen her a lot on the news. If you ever want to pop into Denver for a visit let me know. I have a big empty house.

Good News. A new high school head coach has contacted me and asked me to coach their freshman boy's team this year. Nice opportunity and close to home. Hopefully in a year or two I can get the same opportunity with a girl's team (sorry guys, they are smarter, more disciplined, apply more fundamentals and listen better). That's all good things if you like to coach.

Right chrisner, and then they have to grow up and turn into women.....

I now have to apologize to all the nice ladies here, but this one just begged for a smart donkey comeback....

Chrisner, what is your email? I'll send you a rough draft of my book.

Do yall have a Buffalo Wild Wings?

I'm sure yall at least have hooters.

I do want to take DS skiing some day. I've only been twice, but I am king of the bunny slope.

We also went to Pikes Peak a few times growing up. I'd like to ride the Cog rail with DS and look for the yellow bellied sap suckers.

Maybe I can get Christine to give us a tour of the studio. I've always wanted to get in front of the green screen and do the weather.

Just spending next years Christmas Bonus already.

Hey BC,

We have a BW3 within walking distance. Also a Dave and Buster's and a Jackson's Sports Bar attached to an Ice arena. You can sit in the bar and watch hockey games below you all the time. All within a 10 minute walk.

Oh yeah, I understand we have Hooters here too but, ugh, you know I have never ever liked checked that out, you know like in person or anything. Nope. Not me.

I am serious if you are ever passing through there is a place to stay. Even the holidays would be fine. The holiday season will be a little tainted for me for a while.

Maybe I can start a Bed and Breakfast for Betrayed Spouses to compete with Infidel Hotel.

43 Days to go.

That's Infidel HO-tel

Hooters has good wings. I'm not much on the boobage, as I have them, and the fuss is lost on me.

I would happily take a room at that BS B&B. HUGE boxes of tissues in every room! Middle of the night scones and card games for those sleepless nights. On site counselors. The Plan B lounge, for those of us who are sorta sleeping again, but like a good glass of wine and laughter again.

Oh yep, um, that would be like, sort of like me too yep, no doubt. Yep. No. Yep. Lost. Uh Huh. Nope. Yep. Yep.

Help BC.

Huh, Huh - she said "boobage"

Sorry, this will probably take us into the gutter....

WW used to always say she was going to open up a restaurant for women to compete with Hooters - call it Peckers <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I give her an A for creativity.

The fuss is not lost on me, though.....

What she's sayin is she used to work there.

Did you used to work there too?

It's OK, just admit it and send pics. It's the internet, nobody will see. I promise.

I think you're on to something here. Complimentary spa treatment, stocked pharmacy. . . .

Chris,

did you get my rough draft?

Let me know what you think and please be brutally honest.

BD

BD331,

I got it. I have not had a chance to go through it yet. Lots of basketball. I will get into it the next couple evenings and let you know. Thanks. Honest is honest. Lying is brutal.

I wanna come to the B & B too!

chrisner,

I realize this may "give away a lot" but I may know approximately where you are! Having been a "nearly native" (25 years) I'm fairly familiar with the city, and I do know where there's a BW3 and an ice arena near each other...in one of the northern suburbs that starts with an "A" right??

I used to live in Lakewood on 20th Avenue, west of Kipling. You know the YMCA out there near? I lived in a townhouse near there. My kids hung out at the Mall--what is it?--the Colorado Mills--when it was first built! Oh yeah, we've were there THAT long! In fact, do you remember what was the big venue in town before the Pepsi Center? The space ship...remember? Right next door to the old Mile High Stadium?? I'll tell ya the answer if you post!

My gosh!! I'm so excited! It feels like we're neighbors!

Your faithful friend,



CJ