Someone- sorry, I cannot remember who- said something like a BS does not have a "blank check" to keep throwing the A back in the FWS's face once that WS has attained F status.
Last night, we had a R discussion- and again, OM's name got thrown back in my face with a vengence. "Why don't you call OM and talk to him about it??"
We are just at the year mark, so of course more feelings come up, but this has been pretty consistant for the whole year, so it's not like the "anniversary" is bringing up new behaviors.
I said, "my having had an EA a year ago and trying my best to repent and change DOES NOT give you the right to throw it in my face every time I do something you don't like. I burn your toast. Are you going to throw my A in my face? I get in an accident- are you going to tell me to call OM?"
He said that because I had this EA, he has a blank check forever to say that if he wants to.
You guys, I don't think I can deal much longer.
-He refuses counseling
-He refuses to talk to our spiritual leader
-He has indicated that if I do either of the previous things he will never forgive me- insult to injury for him
-He will not read here
-He will not do the EN questionnaire
-All it did when I talked about the EN concept was for him to make absolutely sure he was not fulfilling ANY of my EN's. Really, it was like I gave him a roadmap of how to hurt me the most. Cause, I like needed that.
-When I try to meet his EN's, he usually flat out turns me down, no matter how it's presented (#1 EN is SF).
Neither of us will divorce because of our child, but I'm pretty much at my wit's end. He said that once the year is up (the date he has in mind is April 1, I was in true NC around 3/28 or so) he will be "better." But he's said that before, specifically about when we moved into our new house in July. When I asked him about that he said, "well, I was wrong about that," so I have little confidence that the year mark will be some magic point of change.
Here's the thing. My marriage sucked before my EA. I chose the wrong way to get my EN's filled by turning to another man, and no matter how bad my marriage sucks now, I will not make that mistake again. I guess I just have to get it through my thick skull that I will never have a good marriage, I will just have to live with what I have.
There is always hope and maybe something will happen that will make BH want to work on our marriage, but truthfully , that hope is fading...
I see all these wonderful BS's doing their very best to improve themselves and their marriages, and I just wish my BH would work with me just a little.
I am tired of trying, and I know that once I reach that point I won't care one iota about him.
Can you plan B a BH??? Don't worry, that's just a rhetorical question.....
The things he did "wrong" in our marriage are nothing compared to my EA, but to hear him talk our marriage, while not perfect, was okay before my EA. It's kind of scary how different two people in the same situation see things...
Thanks for letting me get this all out, it helps to "talk" to people who understand what I am going through...
Is there any chance he is having an A of his own?
I would consider Plan B an option, but not until laying everything even more clearly on the line. "I love you. I want to have a good M with you. I want to meet your needs, and have you meet mine. I know our M can be better than ever, if we just work on it. What are you willing to do toward that goal?"
I think he is totally wrong to do this.
A slip once or twice is understandable. but if it's all the time, it's not right.
Maybe next time, you should consider throwing out a "well, if I cant talk to you about things without getting attacked, maybe I SHOULD talk to OM about it"
He said that because I had this EA, he has a blank check forever to say that if he wants to.
This is totally wrong, and just plain evil.
What he is doing is deliberately hurting you. He does not have a right to do that. I think you should tell him, "no, he does not have a right to hurt you whenever he wants, just because you made a bad mistake in the past".
I'd say confront him about the fact that it hurts you, and he KNOWS it hurts you, so he is deliberately choosing to hurt you.
I for one, would be interested in what he has to say in response to that fact.
So far, I've had the impression that he seems to think it is "just words', sort of thing. He hasnt acknowledged that it is a choice to cause you pain.
He might already 'know' it. but I dont think he has acknowleged it openly as such?
Neak, I have said that. Almost verbatim. His reply is "well, you certainly have some work to do, don't you?" <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />
I dont' think he's having an A, but who knows? I think he has a keylogger on our computer, for me, though I don't know for sure. I have inquired along those lines (is he having an affair), but all he says, is "I'm not like you." Of course, like he'd tell me the truth, lol. There is no unaccounted time or $$ spent, etc...
Sigh...
All it did when I talked about the EN concept was for him to make absolutely sure he was not fulfilling ANY of my EN's. Really, it was like I gave him a roadmap of how to hurt me the most.
whoa.. I didnt notice that bit.
This is deliberately abusive.
I think he got off too easy.
I think you chose to come back because you had a crisis of concience, not because he "plan A'd you back. Seems like he never actually had to work at it.
I think that is the current problem in your marriage.
They say WS's have a problem with entitlement. Sounds like your BS has a problem with it also. "Well, she came back, and I didnt have to do diddly, so I've got her as my slave for the rest of her life'.
Not a good model for marriage <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />
There are a few things I might suggest, but I dont want to give bad advice. I strongly suggest that you save up the money for a session with the harleys or something, for a specific way to approach your painful situation.
PS: yeah, i read that bit now about if you see a coulsellor he will "never forgive you'?
Do it anyway.
He will be shown as a complete hypocrit and a scumbag to everyone he knows, if he retaliates against you, for YOU seeing a marriage counsellor.
Hey MrsRob,
Sorry your still in this mess.
You joke about Plan B, but that is what came to me when I read this.
QUOTE MrsRob
"He said that because I had this EA, he has a blank check forever to say that if he wants to."
Where M is this ok? No one can live their entire life under this.
MrsRob, you were wrong in what you did. You have been trying to fix it and be a good wife, but your H wants to keep punishing you for it instead of loving you for your changes. You deserve better than this.
Why not write him a note telling just what you told us here:
"I am tired of trying, and I know that once I reach that point I won't care one iota about him."
You can't go on like this. I think the year mark with him is just a story to keep punishing today.
(((hugs)))
Techie, you are absolutely right, there was never a plan A from him. He caught me in my EA, with a client, I convinced him to let me still have contact until the deal was closed, and we all know what happens with continued contact between A partners, so BH caught me again, in deeper. He threatened divorce, I begged (literally) and pleaded. That was when there was instant NC. I did not show him any of my withdrawl. I did do some justifying, and still fall into that mode once in awhile to try to assuage my guilt, but I know that there is no justification. My problem is that I try to say, "See, I know what I did was wrong, let's try to move on now and fix all the other things that were wrong." I know that it's not right to "educate" but what do I do? Just wait til he sees what is wrong with the whole picture? So here we are. He made it perfectly clear that the ONLY reason he did not divorce me was becasue of our daughter (1 at the time). He still makes that perfectly clear.
more sighs...
Techie, he knows it hurts, how could he not know?? But I guess he can't read my mind, I'll try your suggestion...
Mrs. Rob,
Here is what Dr. Harley has to say about a situation that sounds very much like yours:
Using resentment as a way to control and punish a spouse
I'm convinced that what's kept the resentment of S.R.'s husband alive for so many years is that he has found it to be an effective way to control and punish her whenever she doesn't do what he wants. Whenever they have a fight, he brings it up, and it causes her such guilt that it gives him a decided advantage in winning the argument.
By this time, I don't believe that her affair is the problem that she thinks it is. Instead, it is an issue that her husband is using to get the upper hand in his relationship with her. It probably shows up the most whenever she has been reluctant to have sex with him. It throws her off balance whenever he mentions it, and makes her feel guilty, wanting to make it up to him somehow. He may also bring it up whenever she is winning in a power struggle he is having with her.
What she describes to me in her letter is abuse, pure and simple. There is no excuse for the way her husband keeps bringing up her moment of weakness she experienced years ago. He is disrespectful and abusive.
I suggest that she look him right in the eye and say to him, "Listen Buster, do you love me? Do you want me to love you? Do you want to spend the rest of your life with me? If the answers to any of those questions is 'yes' you sure are going about it the wrong way. You are not doing things that I admire, you're doing things that I find disgusting!"
What if he says, "Fine, then lets just get a divorce and end it all."
To that I would say, "It's up to you. I married you for life, but if you want a divorce, it's your call. If you want to be in a love relationship with me, however, you're going to have to treat me much better than you have been treating me. You must never again bring up my affair, and if you are upset with me, you will have to treat me with respect until we can solve the problem. If you are upset with our sexual relationship, I want us to discuss it as adults and solve it with mutual respect. I refuse to be treated like this, especially by the man I love."
My advice to her husband is to never mention her affair again. It's a good example of one of the enemies of good conversation, dwelling on past mistakes. Whenever you keep bringing up your spouses past mistakes, you not only make your conversations incredibly unpleasant, but it cannot possibly lead to a resolution of a conflict you may be discussing. And as soon as his resentment doesn't pay him any dividends -- no longer helps him get his way -- he will find that it hardly ever occurs to him.
Hanging on to an unpleasant thought because it helps us somehow is what psychologists call "secondary gain." It means that even though the thought is unpleasant, it gets you something you need, so your mind keeps it around for its usefulness. There are many unpleasant thoughts that have this characteristic, and I have helped many people let them go by helping them destroy the usefulness of the thought. Making sure that S.K.'s husband never gets what he wants by bringing up her affair will help him overcome his resentment.
Stand up to him!
And do not ever say "maybe I should contact OM then". I understand why techie would suggest that, because it would send a strong message, but you will want to continue to demonstrate that you have changed for keeps.
Mrs. Rob,
I just wanted to let you know that the same thing happened to me until my H had an A...
from time to time he would make rude comments...hurtful comments...
I'm so sorry that your H is doing this...I agree that you have to stand up to him and you may just want to consider yourself a Plan B...
(((((Mrs. Rob)))))
Yes, I would never say that I would contact OM. My standard reply is, "I no longer remember anything about him."
I have tried that, Lady C. It has not helped. I'm not sure anything will. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />
I guess I wish that he would either fish or cut bait. I mean, if he can't forgive me, then it is on him, but I'd like to know what my life is going to be like so I can make plans on how I want to be. If he can forgive me, then let's do that and have a good marriage. I think he's waiting for this year anniversary, but I'm not at all sure it will be the culmination he thinks it will be. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />
H comes home from work to find his bags packed with a note.
“H, I can not go on like this. You have treated me rudely long enough. Yes I was wrong with what I DID. You are wrong with what you are DOING. I can not change the past nor can you, but we can change today and the future. I want to be a loving wife to a loving H. The way you have been treating me is below how dogs are treated. The hurt is that great.
I understand your hurt and anger over this, but I need you to meet me halfway to work on our M. I think back to our wedding day and how handsome you looked and I just felt like the world stopped for us that day. I want us to work on returning that feeling, that love. We are both better than this and we can be great again. Aside from the big issue, I know I have areas that I can work on and so do you, but without you in my life as a loving involved H, I simply can’t tolerate life like this anymore.
I’m asking you today to either work with me on our M and start being a loving family or move out. I have thought about this long and hard and you simply leave me with no other choice.
Your loving wife, Mrs.Rob”
***I know this would scare the crap out of me if my wife gave this to me***
Mrs. Rob ~
While I am certainly no expert in this area (plenty here will attest to that!), you need to set some serious boundaries. Here is my thread on trying to learn what about them, and what my first boundary is. This has been really, really helpful for me. I still have a long ways to go, but I'm getting there....
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/sho...=0#Post3179160.And while you said that neither of you will D because of your daughter, he really has no reason to change. Why should he? You're not going to leave anyways. Not that I believe in D, but I have finally had to admit that that IS a possibility. I'm not going to live in a miserable marriage for the rest of my life, I'm way too young for that!
What about a legal separation? Would you consider that? I just don't see him changing unless there are going to be serious consequences for not respecting your boundaries (once you set them).
Just my $.02 worth....
~MF
I think that would only inflame matters even more.
"YOU had an affair and now you want to throw ME out???"
I agree that the BH needs to get off the dime, and that a lot of the other BH's here would kill to have a FWW half has repentant and as willing to work as MrsRob. Sadly, I don't know what the answer is.
The interesting thing is, this house is ALL BH's. I'm not on the deed or title. I do get it if he dies, it's in his will.
So if anyone moves out it would be me and my 3 kids. not the easiest thing. He cannot afford the house by himself, but has a grand plan that he'd get roommates...
M2L- you've been here for all this drama, havent' you!! lol. If I gave him a note like that he'd say, "okay, fine, I don't control you. Do whatever you want."
So many of my behaviors (bad ones) are to try to get his attention. I couldnt' even get him to stay the night with me in ICU when I had pulmonary embolisms- and it was an absolute possibility that I would die from the embolisms or the treatment -pre EA. I feel like I don't matter. We have the classic EN conversation- I tell him that I don't feel like he cares, he lists all the ways he thinks he showed he cared, which are all ways HE wants, not what I wanted, and then he tells me that my "thought processes are all f***ed up." Again, my EN's are not important.
This sounds so all ME ME ME, and it's really not. I am trying to fill all the EN's I can. Some of ours are such polar opposites. BH would NEVER have a R conversation if he could help it. He just wants to put things "in a box," his words, and let it fester til he can't handle it.
MrsRob, if what you say about your sex life with BH is true, you are not only being emotionally abused, but sexually abused as well.
It gives me chills whenever I read someone say 'we will NEVER divorce' and then go on to describe a relationship that toxic. I can think of three people off the top of my head in these kinds of relationships and I mourn for them.
Would you advise your children to remain in a relationship like that because they have kids? Knowing that slowly but surely they are dying inside?
I'm a FBW and the thought of treating my FWH even a little bit like you are being treated makes me ill.
Ok, so you wish to never divorce. However, you definately do not need to continue to LIVE with that. I agree with the others, you need to state some serious boundaries and have a plan in hand to back them up. Are you able to get a place of your own in a few months if things do not improve?
No spouse deserves that type of behavior and it irks me that he seems to think its justified. ITS NOT.
He makes sure- and I mean makes sure in every way possible, that if we do have SF, and it's usually 3-4 times a week (which is waaaaaay below his desired 15-20 times, lol) that I get absolutely nothing out of it. NOTHING. Absolutely nothing.
Then stop having sex with him, and tell him why.
ie: because sex in a marriage is supposed to be an act of shared intimacy, not an act of slavery.
it sickens me that a man would treat his wife this way.
All it did when I talked about the EN concept was for him to make absolutely sure he was not fulfilling ANY of my EN's. Really, it was like I gave him a roadmap of how to hurt me the most.
What you are describing is textbook Passive/Aggressive behaviour of the worst kind. Please see the links in my sig line. I'll be they hit you right between the eyes, especially when you read the first link (it's not very long).
I tell him that I don't feel like he cares, he lists all the ways he thinks he showed he cared, which are all ways HE wants, not what I wanted, and then he tells me that my "thought processes are all f***ed up."
This happens to me, too. I have been told that my feelings are "bullsh*t". Again, this is straight-up Passive/Aggressive bullying and torment. Please read those links.
Mulan
You are cordially invited [and emphatically urged] to join the "boundaries" thread on the recovery board.
I agree with Noodle and Mulan Mrs Rob. I believe Bob Pure and I have told you months ago not to tolerate this appalling behaviour.
Yes MrsRob, I have been here from the start and I was hopping this would turn out better by now.
Maybe Tech is on to something here. What if you stopped doing "your job"? No sex, cooking for him, cleaning after him - just doing anything for him. Stop all together. Let him miss something.
Oh the boundaries - we all talk about them, but no one has a seadfast answer to it. Set all the boundaries you want, but if your H walks thru them then what? Well he doesn't meet your needs then you don't meet his needs.
?????
If her H walks through them (which he will) Plan B followed by Plan D.
BigK- yes, you have- and so I hesitate to post sometimes. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />
It seems like the only choices I have are to tolerate it until he decides- if he decides- to stop doing it, and try to make our marriage better, or get divorced.
The choice I want, to have a partner in making our marriage work, does not seem to be on the table.
MrsRob,
Lots of us are looking at plan B for you. Knock him off his fence as it were.
What do you think?
And move out? With 3 kids? And lose the house?
You can't plan B in the same house and have it be effective, can you?
And I love him so much. I just wish I had never done anyof this.
And move out? With 3 kids? And lose the house?
You can't plan B in the same house and have it be effective, can you?
Not really, no.
I know - rock and a hard place. Right now I'm just thinking out loud with you and the gang.
What about stopping the sex and such? Just tell him that you are burnt out with no EN of your own being met.
???
Mulan- I have not read the stuff you have about passive aggressiveness becasue then I'll have to deal with it. Stupid, huh, since I already AM dealing with it, just not well, lol. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> I have accused him of it, and again, my thought process is just f-ed up.
M2L- April 1st is not that far
And so much of it is just button pushing, as he knows just how to get me, and I fall for it every time. That is where I need to do a plan ME and change how I react. I can't change him, and isnt' a DJ to think he should change? So it's me that has to.
And no matter what he's done to me- or what I perceive he's done to me, he didnt' deserve what I did. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />
well then LET HIM.
Give him what he says he wants. Give him "less hassle".
He treats you horribly during sex, yes? Sex is a burden for you, yes?
So if you're not getting anything out of it, and he claims he isnt either... then stop doing it.
I suggest that you take SF off the table, until it can be a positive experience for *both of you*.
If it IS a positive experience for him, he should have the bare minimum courtesy to acknowlege that it is,and show some appreciation for it, rather than denigration.
Well, to be fair, he does show some appreciation sometimes. What he means by less hassle is that it's always available and he doesnt' have to put up with my "yammering."
He just wants to not talk about our R
Oh, about stopping sex, his answer is always, "I can just take care of myself, it's less of a hassle anyways."
Then let him handle it. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> You can't compare the two at all - trust me. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> I bet he will ask whats up when you stop. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
If you think you can wait until April AND that things will change then please do so. I just don't see how a date on the calendar will change him.
I agree, if it's not this excuse about the date than it will be another one...
oops.. i somehow missed this bit...
...I do bring up all the things in the past that I am mad about and have not forgiven...
how is it fair to be mad at him for bringing up the past all the time, if you do it yourself?
Mrs Rob.
This is pretty simple. He is acting like a child. Do not take the bait.
I think it is time for no reaction when he says that. If he gets heated and throws that out at you say something crazy.
You know you should really call the OM. Then say you know my favorite flower is the sunflower.
If he brings up the A in a revengful way just say I love chocolate cake.
He is at this point not acting rational about this.
You do not need to be abused. If you have been honest and he has no questions, if you are being transparent, if there is no contact then the ball is in his court.
He may never forgive you, but he has to decide if he can move forward. If he wants to stay there that is his choice.
My goal in this as the BS was to have a better M then we did before the A. I KNOW we do. That wouldn't have happened if I did what your H is doing.
You can always say supercalifragilisticexpialidocisrudkfm. I don't know how to spell it but you get the idea.