I can't stand WH. He makes me ill, truly. I can't wait for an appt with SH. I've got the PBL ready...I'll post it here in a moment.

There is NO WAY I can even make it until he leaves town. I can't smile and be nice to that creature. I have to do this NOW.

Please tell me I have your support.

I know this is my gut talking, but it is also my head. I am worried about myself if I have to do this any more. I NEED to save myself. Please, even if you disagree with timing or whatever, just let me know that you will be here for me after I do this.

Be back in a few with the PBL.

MIMI-HERE FOR YOU!!!

morning!

you have my support. and my prayers.
and i don't think i disagree w/ your timing......you sound like you have had enough.
did he do something new?

Yes..time for PLAN B..if you are losing your love for your H..it's meant to safeguard remnants of the love that you have left for him..as Mortarman instructed me...

Just passed his truck at the coffee shop...the last straw.

It is just SOOO class-less, you know? It just disgusts me. No decency. You guys, I am NOT kidding. This coffee shop is literally ONE BLOCK from my house, and they choose to carry on right out in the open.

I'm done.

Still cleaning up last fixes on the PBL.

Ideas about how to deliver it...???

you have seen his truch there before....but,this morning it HIT you in a different way.
yeah, i think it's time.

Although I can't advise much, please know that I'm here supporting you with all good thoughts and prayers coming your way! {{{LilSis}}}

Still checking for typos, etc. but this is the gist of it. I had to restrain myself from lashing out, but some of it may have seeped through anyway....

I'd prefer to keep it generally how it is because it is MY voice, MY truth, but if I'm totally missing something or have something in here that absolutely should NOT be...let me know.

WH,

It breaks my heart to know that this may be the last letter I ever write to you.

I sincerely hope that you read the letter I gave to you a couple of weeks ago, because in it, I spoke from the very deepest places in my heart. I completely bared my soul.

Now I need to speak from my head.

My head is telling me that watching you—powerlessly and helplessly—as you self-destruct and carry on with Amy is just too painful for me to endure. It is intolerable to watch this wonderful, admirable, honorable man step closer and closer to the edge of the cliff. It is clear to me that is what my meltdown a couple of Saturdays ago was about: a desperate, futile attempt to pull you back from the precipice…even though I know in my head that only you can take that step back.

I am so sorry for showing you such ugliness and anger, on that Saturday as well as the many other times in the past. My frustration at my utter helplessness only resulted in driving you further away. I know intellectually that only you can save you, but my heart wants so badly to keep you from losing yourself, losing me, losing the boys. I believe in you, in who you are, in the heart and soul of man that I married. I will never believe that man is gone forever. Goodness always prevails.

I am also deeply sorry for my part in creating an environment in our marriage that helped make this situation possible. I wish that I could go back in time and give you all that you needed to be happy: my undivided attention, my affection, my self—with no holding back. I wish I had made “us” my top priority. I hope that one day you will forgive me for the mistakes that I made and give us the opportunity to create a new marriage.

I have changed. I am no longer the same person I was; that would be an impossibility. But the changes I have made have been for the good: an understanding of who I am, of how deeply I love you, of how much I need to make a place for God in my life, and of what it takes to make a marriage work. Over the past couple of months I have attempted to show you these changes. I want to share those changes with you for one reason: because you are the most important person in my life. I wish I had done a better job of showing that truth to you before all of this happened.

I believe with all my heart that together we can overcome all of this and begin a new and better life, one in which each of us are happy and deeply fulfilled. I want this more than anything.

But my emotions over the past couple of weeks have made it clear to me that I need to protect myself from the pain created by this situation. Watching you lose yourself and seeing you with someone else is simply agonizing. I can no longer endure it; it is tearing me apart. If one day you decide to give our marriage a chance, I need my love for you to be as strong as it is today. And I need to be as strong as I am today. So until the situation changes, the only way I can hold on to my love and personal strength is to end all contact with you.

This is not what I want.

What I want, more than anything, is you in my life—all of you—and all to myself. I am married to you. I promised my life to you—you and you alone. I cannot and will not share you. I cannot and will never be your “friend.” I can only be your wife, in every sense of the word, in the way that I promised to you and to God. That is the only type of relationship that I can accept.

Out of respect for my position, please do not call, send e-mails, or leave messages unless you have permanently separated from Amy and have decided that you want to work on building a new relationship with me.

If you need to reach me, you may communicate through Lisa. Her cell phone number is xxx-xxxx and home number is xxx-xxxx. Her email is xxxx. She will get a message to me. In terms of the boys, I will assume that you will pick them up from school on “your” Fridays and drop them off around 6:00 on Sundays. During the week, we can continue with the same arrangements we have had for alternating Tuesdays and Wednesdays, with you picking them up from school and bringing them home around 8:00.

If you decide that you want to work on building a new marriage with me, I promise you that I will leave the past behind us. I will ask only that you do the same. It will take hard, hard work on both our parts, but it can be done, and it will be worth it. I hope with all my heart that one day you will decide to allow us to make a new and better beginning, together.

I loved you on the first day I met you. I loved you when I married you. I loved you when you worked a horrific schedule to be home with Nick, when you held me after my dad’s first surgery, when I proudly stood beside you when you were named Officer of the Year, when visited the farm and the cemetery every Memorial Day, when we worried together over Jake’s bowel problems, when you gave the toast at my parent’s last anniversary together. I loved you when we marveled at the dappled light on the Pierce Stocking, when we would listen for the first red-winged blackbird in the spring and the first cicada in the summer, when we would document the growth of our maple tree in the fall, and when we would watch Orion’s Belt move across the winter sky. I loved you when we went camping at Brimley, when we drove on countless back roads just to explore, when we collected rocks at Point Betsie, when we found petoskeys at Torch Lake, when we had “great days at the lake,” when we spent those incredible days in Pentwater, and when we went to Ludington.

I will love you until the day I die.

Please come home. You know the way.

Lilsis... I fully support your decision. I will spend some time looking at your letter.

MEDC {{{LILSIS}}}

Lilsis-

I don't post to you much...you've already got the real experts on here helping...but just two thoughts about your letter.

1. Too long. Most waywards don't have that much attention span...must be an alien thing. Try to cut it back to just a few paragraphs.

2. You need to spell out CLEARLY exactly what the conditions of your WH's return would look like. In order to accept him back, to CONSIDER working on a R with him again, what do you require he do first? Or as part of it? Obviously, NC needs to be top of the list...clearly spell that out. What about signing up for MC/IC? What other criteria would you INSIST that he take BEFORE you consider allowing him back into your life?

Hope that helps...and I'm sure you'll hear similar advice from others.

I was thinking along the lines of owl.... W's just don't have the attention span.
They need to feel impact....they need to understand your plan.
maybe a power point. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

Beautifully written though...brought tears to my eyes.
p.s....i have Jake.

First glance... I would re word the showing so much anger and ugliness part. My frustration on Saturday and at other times was due to unbearable (by anyones standards) situations. The way you worded it seems to place the blame on you.

I would also remove the I will love you until I die line.

ETA..
I agree with Owl... he needs to know the way home and that as of right now is by meeting your terms. Spell it out for him.

I think you should begin the letter with the I LOVE YOU PART below..It's mainly supposed to be a LOVE LETTER...

I throw my support in as well. I've been reading your post, but not posting on it.


Oh ((((Sis)))

Yea..leave out "I will love you until the day I die"..but leave the rest...

OWL

1. Length. I realize that it's too long for a WH, but I'm not really writing it for a WH...?? I'm writing it to my H. I don't care if WH lacks the attention span to read it because it won't mean anything to him anyway...at least that was my thinking on the matter.

I don't know where that last paragraph came from. It feels right to include it, though, even though it makes it looong. It's a testament to who we were, what we've been though...I don't know. It's from my heart, and I want to keep it in there.

2. Expectations. The biggie is covered. Maybe change "permanently separtated from RT" to "decided to completely cut off all contact with RT." ??? That's stronger and is more clear.

The other stuff...MC, etc. Seems like it might be laying it on awful thick. That could be negotiated with my intermediary, right?

I would delete this..won't get through to his FOGGY BRAIN. Plus, gives the message that he can't do this ON HIS OWN which is what he will HAVE TO DO once you go into PLAN B. Let him know that YOU THINK HE CAN DO IT.

okay...moved the last paragraph up to the top...deleted the "love you til the day I die" thingy

And made the above change that I posted to Owl with regard to the expectations.

You are definitely writing to your WH...

You want your WH to refer back to this while in PLAN B...

You won't see your H until after WITHDRAWAL...

i agree 100% w/ mimi. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

GREAT..MISSION ACCOMPLISED..ON LETTING HIM KNOW THAT HE CAN DO IT!!

I'm losing track here...so are you agreeing with Owl that it's too long??

If so...what do I take out? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Also, regarding that one paragraph you noted that I should delete, then you say mission accomplished...so are you saying leave in the earlier one, or still take it out?

sorry...trying to follow...

(((SIS)))

What's your plan to avoid contact when he drops the kids off at the house? Will you have someone else there? Don't count on him not trying to come in and see you. It looks like WS's do everything they can to break BS's Plan B's, so I imagine him coming up with every excuse in the world that he "HAS" to talk to you, "HAS" to come in, when he drops the boys off. You don't want him to get that "home" fix if you're in Plan B.

Keep your chin up. You're going to be ok!!

-AmI.

And I would leave this out, too..

Otherwise, it seems fine...

Specifically say that he has to AGREE to NC with Amy FOR LIFE...

AmI: So should I include that when I talk about the kid arrangments, i.e.; "When you drop off or pick up the boys, please do not come in to the house or attempt to speak to me."

The "last letter" was a Marsh suggestion, I think. Eav's had something similar. ??? But it's not critical.

Revised paragraph:
Out of respect for my position, please do not call, send e-mails, or leave messages unless you will agree to forever cut off all contact with Amy and have decided that you want to work on building a new relationship with me.

edited to fix already...

I would delete all of this.

Begin with the I LOVE YOU PARAGRAPH...

and then change the first line of the "I am so sorry paragragh to read: "I am so sorry for showing you such ugliness and anger on Saturday as well as so many times in the past"..change is from "that Saturday" to "on Saturday"...

FOREVER is fine.. but I would make it even more explicit...FOR THE REST OF YOUR LIFE...

I don't know that it has to go in the letter, I just wanted you to think about it and have a plan in place. This seems like a weak point in the plan. (I'll leave the letter writing to the experts, mine was a flop. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> )

-AmI.

Revision 2:

Out of respect for my position, please do not call, send e-mails, or leave messages unless you agree to forever—for life—cut off all contact with Amy and you decide that you want to work on building a new relationship with me.

Agree absolutely with Mimi that you're writing to your WH, not your H.

Your words made me cry, but the emotion neurons for LilSis-compassion are all closed down in him right now.

The one thing that must hit him between the eyes is: LilSis is moving on, no more LilSis.

And, honey, the hard truth is that you may feel indifference to him by the day you die...if he doesn't get his head out of his underwear before you move on without him. You may love the memory of your H, but not the ugly person he became.

Stay strong. (I know you will.)

TA

LilSis,

I noticed the first sentence or two of each paragraph basically makes your points, the rest expand or detail them. If you want to shorten it, and it may have more impact, you may want to consider just using those.

mimi...I did move the ILY paragraph to the beginning. Once we get all the tweaking done I will post the whole thing back.

AmI: I did add the sentence I ran past you. I think it is helpful to be very clear about that in the letter...for ME as well...it gives ME a standard that I need to live up to...

Picture me thinking: Ican't cave in because I wrote it in that darn letter and now I have to stick to it!

KWIM?

TA: I'm not sure I WILL stay strong, which is why I need to commit to this NOW. I won't be able to restrain myself from LBing if I have to keep crossing paths with him.

Once I commit to Plan B, I HAVE to stick with it...and I know that you all here will help me with that and hold my feet to the fire if I start to waver (no Plan B SF for me...mimi, tsk, tsk.)

Everyone:
You are saying that I'm writing this to WH, but what does that mean in terms of changes to the letter?

Should I post the latest version again? With the suggested changes thus far? Would that help?

In terms of size: Right now, it is about a page and a quarter, single spaced, one inch margins in 11-pt type.

I think I'm liking it the way it is now...I'll re-post. There are some italicized things that get lost in the copy/paste...but you get the idea.

Tell him what you want, not what you don't want. "Please text DS11 when you arrive; the boys will come out to your car. When you return the boys, please leave them at the gate."

WH,

I loved you on the first day I met you. I loved you when I married you. I loved you when you worked a horrific schedule to be home with Nick, when you held me after my dad’s first surgery, when I proudly stood beside you when you were named Officer of the Year, when visited the farm and the cemetery every Memorial Day, when we worried together over Jake’s bowel problems, when you gave the toast at my parent’s last anniversary together. I loved you when we marveled at the dappled light on the Pierce Stocking, when we would listen for the first red-winged blackbird in the spring and the first cicada in the summer, when we would document the growth of our maple tree in the fall, and when we would watch Orion’s Belt move across the winter sky. I loved you when we went camping at Brimley, when we drove on countless back roads just to explore, when we collected rocks at Point Betsie, when we found petoskeys at Torch Lake, when we had “great days at the lake,” when we spent those incredible days in Pentwater, and when we went to Ludington.

I love you still.

I am so sorry for showing you such ugliness and anger a couple of weeks ago and so many times in the past. My frustration at my sheer helplessness only resulted in driving you further away. I know intellectually that only you can save you, but my heart wants so badly to keep you from losing yourself, losing me, losing the boys. I believe in you, in who you are, in the heart and soul of man that I married. I will never believe that man is gone forever. Goodness always prevails.

I am also deeply sorry for my part in creating an environment in our marriage that helped make this situation possible. I wish that I could go back in time and give you all that you needed to be happy: my undivided attention, my affection, my self—with no holding back. I wish I had made “us” my top priority. I hope that one day you will forgive me for the mistakes that I made and give us the opportunity to create a new marriage.

I have changed. I am no longer the same person I was; that would be an impossibility. But the changes I have made have been for the good: an understanding of who I am, of how deeply I love you, of how much I need to make a place for God in my life, and of what it takes to make a marriage work. Over the past couple of months I have attempted to show you these changes. I want to share those changes with you for one reason: because you are the most important person in my life. I wish I had done a better job of showing that truth to you before all of this happened.

I believe with all my heart that together we can overcome all of this and begin a new and better life, one in which each of us are happy and deeply fulfilled. I want this more than anything.

But my emotions over the past couple of weeks have made it clear to me that I need to protect myself from the pain created by this situation. Watching you lose yourself and seeing you with someone else is simply agonizing. I can no longer endure it; it is tearing me apart. If one day you decide to give our marriage a chance, I need my love for you to be as strong as it is today. And I need to be as strong as I am today. So until the situation changes, the only way I can hold on to my love and personal strength is to end all contact with you.

This is not what I want.

What I want, more than anything, is you in my life—all of you—and all to myself. I am married to you. I promised my life to you—you and you alone. I cannot and will not share you. I cannot and will never be your “friend.” I can only be your wife, in every sense of the word, in the way that I promised to you and to God. That is the only type of relationship that I can accept.

Out of respect for my position, please do not call, send e-mails, or leave messages unless you agree to forever—for life—cut off all contact with Amy and you decide that you want to work on building a new relationship with me.

If you need to reach me, you may communicate through Lisa. Her cell phone number is xxx-xxxx and home number is xxx-xxxx. Her email is xxxx. She will get a message to me. In terms of the boys, I will assume that you will pick them up from school on “your” Fridays and drop them off around 6:00 on Sundays. During the week, we can continue with the same arrangements we have had for alternating Tuesdays and Wednesdays, with you picking them up from school and bringing them home around 8:00. When drop off or pick up the boys, please do not come into the house or attempt to speak to me.

If you decide that you want to work on building a new marriage with me, I promise you that I will leave the past behind us. I will ask only that you do the same. It will take hard, hard work on both our parts, but it can be done, and it will be worth it. I hope with all my heart that one day you will decide to allow us to make a new and better beginning, together.

Please come home. You know the way.

(((LilSis)))

You will be in my thoughts.

No biggie..but seems like handwritten would be best...

LS, what everyone means is that the WH will read this as bzzz...bzzz...bzzz...no more access to LilSis....bzzz....bzzz.

You don't want him to miss the important bit by him skimming over the bzzzz's.

Also, there's a good chance the WH will share this with RT, so it's unlikely to get a tender reading anyway.

TA

I see your point about saying what I want vs. don't want...but help me figure out a way to accomplish this without putting either of the boys in the middle...?? I do not want them to feel that they have to walk that tightrope. He rarely comes to pick them up at the house, anyway. Usually he picks them up at school.

I am sorry for lashing out at you recently. And while I regret some of my actions, it is too hard to sit back and lose our marriage without a fight. Sometimes that got the better of me.




I would remove this completely.



Add and you promised me yours.

Be more firm about the plans. You will not see him for ANY reason until your terms are met. MC should also be mentioned in here.

MEDC

How about adding something like this? "In order to avoid putting our children in the middle of this, please continue to pick them up at school and drop them off in the driveway (or whatever arrangements you want in place). Then you've reminded him of "our children" who will be affected by all of this. I dunno, I'm no plan B expert... just a thought.

As in any written materials for W with AD, I would keep it to one page when printed.

You'll be glad you went into Plan B as many of us have.

Good luck, my thoughts are with you.

I have a question for the experts...

could state in the first letter that there will be a follow up letter....... explaining the details of the plans and how she wants the terms met??

that way they wouldn't get lost in the first letter.

"I loved you on the first day I met you. I loved you when I married you. I love you still." ( I would make this ONE PARAGRAPH)

And then you mention those actions of his...But WHY DO YOU LOVE HIM? I would specifically mention this in terms of the ENs. I "admire"..I "appreciate" how you helped with the children, etc. and I would make this first paragraph shorter...

"My frustration at my sheer helplessness only resulted in driving you further away." ( I think this is an ASSUMPTION about him) Delete or say: "I was frustrated at my sheer helplessness..I felt that I was driving you away"..See the difference?)



I LOVE, LOVE, LOVE that you included this..

Why don't you end with that Goodbye phrase that you guys always use...Be careful or something??? (Middle-aged brain of mine..)

In terms of the bzzz factor:

It's supposed to be a "love letter" and ALSO set these clear boundaries. I looked at the example in SAA and it's not any shorter, nor is the one that Jen wrote for eav much shorter...???

So is the issue the length, or the content? Because in terms of content, there's a lot that needs to be packed in:

Love letter stuff
Taking responsibility for and apologizing for problems in the M
I believe in you
I've changed
I need to protect myself
We can recover
My expectations
Logistics
wrap-up

KISS- keep It Simple Stupid. Not you nia but the W that are so lost they can't follow simple instructions. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

IMO (TA, I can't help but say this..it's a habit now..helpful even in my real life to make me seem less overbearing to others)...

It's best to only WRITE THIS ONE LETTER..that there will be NO FURTHER CONTACT PERIOD... I know I failed on this but... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />...I did go right back into DARKNESS... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

If anything, Sis can make her letter much shorter so that the DETAILS won't be lost...

Some things will have to change for the boys, too. You can't insulate them completely from this.

For example, they can't invite him into the house to show him their stuff - that's an adjustment they'll have to make.

If you don't want to talk to him on the phone, there has to be a way for him to contact either son without you being involved - either pre-arranged times or cell.

When he's picking them up from home, they could perhaps wait near the door for the sight of his car...or he can knock the door and go back to his car and wait?

There are lots of tiny gaps where he could get a bit of a LilSis fix...you'll have to work them out and plug them.

TA

yeah....it was just a thought, but i see your point...why drag it out and complicate it.

i just don't want the "instructions" to get lost in the "love letter".....i worry that he won't SEE them at all.

maybe put them in italics?

How does he SHOW you that he wants to build a new life with you?

You can't trust his words...it's his ACTIONS that count.

That's what the other 'requirements' I was referring to should be about.

I've seen tons of plan B letters here...ask around for other examples, you'll see what I'm talking about.

gotcha.
i agree now that i thinka bout it.

jst make sure that he SEES the instructions and the no further contact part.

I agree, they need to be set apart somehow, but not in a different letter. I bulleted mine. Put the most important one first which was NC with OW.

LilSis,

i am going to post my PBL. Looking back at it now, I see things that are wrong with it but maybe you can get something useful out of it.

My FWH was really cakeeating though, so it is tailored more to him finally making his choice and no longer cakeeating.

I hope it helps.


Dear H,


You know I love you and adore you with my heart, my mind and my body. When we married I thought it would be forever and have never considered that we would be apart one day. The thought that we may not grow old together truly pains me.


I know we had problems. I know there are things I could have done differently. I cannot change the past H, but I have learnt from my mistakes and I sincerely apologize to you. You know I have changed, you said you have noticed the changes in me. I am making them permanent and improving myself and my life. I am a better person. I make mistakes every day, but everyday I strive to be the best person I can be.


I have thought a lot about our marriage, our current situation and about where we are going. You know my thoughts and feelings. I love you, I want to be with you and work on making our marriage the best ever. I cannot guarantee it will last 50 years or 5 years, but I know that when we try together we do well. I am ready H, to work wholeheartedly on our marriage. I commit to you and our marriage. We need help, we need counseling but it takes two of us, I cannot do it alone.


You have told me you are scared to give up the security of your apartment and take a chance on us. I feel so much for you as I know this is very difficult. You are at a crossroads in your life and feel that today’s decision will affect the rest of your life. Some decision are tough and are scary, but no one said life would be breezy, it’s supposed to be hard and painful. Then the easy times are even better. I respect that you have taken time to think about your life.


However, you have chosen to spend time with one specific woman and possibly others. You have told me you are still in contact with her. I do not condone it, or like it, but have no choice. You are the only person who can make choices for you and I will respect your decision. I hope that you will be happy in whatever you choose and that you find peace. You are my friend, my lover and my husband. I only want true happiness for you and do not wish any harm or ill to you.

To preserve the love I have for you and my own sanity I have come to a decision of my own. I need to stop seeing you until you decide one way or the other. The current situation is becoming extremely stressful and hurtful for me. This is not an ultimatum or a threat. It is simply ‘no contact’. I know that I risk losing you forever, but I cannot continue to see you without putting pressure on you to make a decision. If you choose to come back and work on our marriage, I want to know that you have done it because you love me, not because you have felt pressured into doing it.


Please respect my decision and do not contact me unless it is an emergency. If you need to contact me reference the children or financial information please do so through email. If you need to access the house, please contact me and I will arrange to have the house available to you at a time I am not there.


I hope with all my heart and soul that you will come back to me one day. Please make Kelly or any other woman aware that I am your wife and that I want to work on our marriage. Please be honest with yourself, with me and them.


I love you H, you will always be very special to me. I look back through our life and I choose now to only remember the good times and learn from the bad. I forgive whatever pain you have caused me and hope that in time you will forgive me too.
I hope we will be together again one day.

Your loving wife

InADaze

I did not have an intermediary b/c we do not have family here other than his bro and sis and I was not comfortable putting anyone in the middle of our mess. My kids were also going to be gone for most of the summer so contact was going to be non-existant anyway.

This letter is not bulleted, for some reason I did not save the one I actually sent but the only change I made was to bullet my "demands".

I will be willing to discuss our future together as soon as you are
• Willing to permanently separate/have absolutely no contact with Kelly
• Willing to move back home
• Willing to construct a plan to ensure a complete separation from her
• Willing to attend marriage counseling to work on existing issues in our marriage

It's a balancing act. Someday, when he wakes up, he will go back and reread it and this time not filter out the love-letter bits. That's what supposed to stay in his subconscious memory from the first reading.

But the first reading, those bits will be just so much static. If he stops reading before the end, he'll miss what it's really about. So you have to keep it reasonably short and snappy. BTW, is he used to reading your handwriting?

TA

Quote:


Because in terms of content, there's a lot that needs to be packed in:

Love letter stuff [color:"red"] [/color] (I love you!!)
Taking responsibility for and apologizing for problems in the M [color:"red"] [/color] (I take responsiblility and sorry about the state of our marriage.)
I believe in you [color:"red"] [/color] (I know you can come back and make it right)
I've changed [color:"red"] [/color] (I changed for the better.)
I need to protect myself [color:"red"] [/color] (I need to be protected from the madness.)
We can recover [color:"red"] [/color] (We can recover!!)
My expectations [color:"red"] [/color] (I expect you to get your AS* home and be a FWH.)
Logistics [color:"red"] [/color] (You know Lisa, she'll let you know the logistics.)
wrap-up [color:"red"] [/color] (See ya and wouldn't want to be you!!)

Here is my verison in ( ) that is short and to the point. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I AGREE ABSOLUTELY AND TOTALLY WITH TA!!!

I handwrote mine so that the written words would symbolically be ME speaking to HIM...

FWIW - I attended a conflict management seminar yesterday. Some of what was covered was the different communication styles of men versus women.

Men want women to "just get to the point", women want to set the scene or explain the situation.

Sis, is he a "get to the point" kind of guy? You're getting great information here and I don't really have any experience with this. I just wonder in the context of how men communicate, would it be a good idea to start with your point and then explain and set the scene later in the letter? (I think your letter is absolutely wonderful, BTW, but I am a woman)

You are such a great lady. You impress the heck out of me.

I'm a man, just get to the point already. Skip all the gory details because we just skip over them.

Sis,

I heard this Bible verse today on the radio and felt it was applicable to all of us going through this - especially you now.

Job 23:10-11

But he knows the way that I take;
when he has tested me, I will come forth as gold.

My feet have closely followed his steps;
I have kept to his way without turning aside.

My prayers are with you.

Which is why I think the first sentence ought to read, "This might be the last letter I ever write you."

It grabs his attention right away.

I wouldn't rephrase it to say, MY HEART BREAKS b/c this might be the last letter I ever write...

I'd state it as is.

You moved me to tears again when I read your letter.

((((LS))))

~ Marsh

I changed the assumption part about driving him further away to a variation on MEDC's suggested text.

I changed the first paragraph to this...and it makes it long, but I want to keep it in. It tells him why I love him. It may not use the specific words of "admiration" or "affection," but they come through (and those words might sound funny coming from me...if you know what I mean? they might sound stilted.)


I loved you on the first day I met you. I loved you when I married you. I love you still. I love you because you worked a horrific schedule to be home with Nick. Because you held me after my dad’s first surgery. Because of the pride I felt when you were named Officer of the Year. Because of how reverently you regard Memorial Day. Because you worried with me over Jake’s bowel problems. Because you gave a beautiful toast at my parent’s last anniversary together. I love you because you will marvel with me at the dappled light on the Pierce Stocking, at the sound of the first red-winged blackbird in the spring, at the first cicada buzz in the summer, at the growth of our maple tree every fall, and the movement of Orion’s Belt across the winter sky. I love you because you introduced me to camping and boating. Because you would take me for rides on countless back roads just to explore. Because you love to skip rocks at Point Betsie and collect petoskeys at Torch Lake. Because you took me to Pentwater, and because you also took me to Ludington. I love you because you know me, inside and out, what makes me beautiful, what makes me human, what frightens me, what pleases me. I love you because you know me more intimately than anyone has ever known me.

I never went to Plan B, but I learned why Plan B is so critical. If I were to sum it up, Plan B is not about removing yourself to convince your spouse to care for you. It is not about getting your spouse to change at all. It is about protecting yourself.

I'm almost to 3,000 posts, and what I can sum up from my long and very painful relationship with my husband is this: If you sacrifice your dignity to save your marriage, you lose both.

LilSis, you are NOT giving up on your marriage. What you are doing is reclaiming your human dignity. Congratulations.

Cherishing

Let's think of something else to GRAB HIS ATTENTION...something more on the "I LOVE YOU" end of things..

That subconscious issue that TA mentions is CRUCIAL...

My H had parts of the PBL in his MEMORY that he quoted back to me...

I do think he read back over it and kept it...

Saying, "this might be the LAST LETTER" makes her start out as if she is not HOPEFUL...he needs to HEAR LOUD AND CLEAR that she has CONFIDENCE in HIS ABILITY TO END THE AFFAIR...

This is growing so fast so I don't know if this has been covered.

Keep a copy of the PBL so when WH asks what you want from him or breaks contact with you you can give him another copy.

Come to think of it, I started with something like...I WILL NEVER LOVE ANOTHER LIKE I'VE LOVED YOU..YOU WILL ALWAYS BE MY FIRST LOVE..Implying that I LOVE YOU NOW but I CAN LOVE AGAIN...

If you open with that very long "I loved you on the first day I met you" paragraph, WH is only going to yawn and think "blah blah . . . more LilSis begging and groveling . . . yawn."

But if you open with "It breaks my heart to know that this may be the last letter I ever send you" - okay, *now* you've got his attention and you've let him know right off the bat that THIS letter is about something else.

As the others have said, I think you need a short and to-the-point one-page letter that will get through to a WH, not to an H. (That's why I've further broken down the paragraphs.)

And you need a letter that you must assume will be read by The Turd.

So, FWIW here's what I would suggest:

********************************************
It breaks my heart to know that this may be the last letter I ever send you.

(I am so sorry for showing you such ugliness and anger a couple of weeks ago and so many times in the past. My frustration at my sheer helplessness only resulted in driving you further away. I know intellectually that only you can save you, but my heart wants so badly to keep you from losing yourself, losing me, losing the boys. I believe in you, in who you are, in the heart and soul of man that I married. I will never believe that man is gone forever. Goodness always prevails.)

(I would take out the entire paragraph above. Don't apologize for fighting to defend your family. And don't give the two of them one single drop of encouragement to think they were justified in any way letting YOU go to jail for trying to defend your family. Remember, The Turd is going to read this too.)

I wish that I could go back in time and give you all that you needed to be happy: my undivided attention, my affection, my whole self with no holding back. I wish I had made “us” my top priority. I hope that one day you will forgive me for the mistakes that I made and give us the opportunity to create a new marriage.

I have worked to make positive changes in myself. In the process I've gained an understanding of who I am, of how deeply I love you, of how much I need to make a place for God in my life, and of what it takes to make a marriage work.

Over the past couple of months I have attempted to show you these changes. I want to share those changes with you for one reason: because you are my husband.

I believe with all my heart that together we can overcome all of this and begin a new and better life, one in which both of us are happy and deeply fulfilled. I want this more than anything.

But the past couple of weeks have made it clear to me that I must protect myself from the pain created by this situation. Seeing you with another woman is simply agonizing. I can no longer endure it. It is tearing me apart.

If you decide to give our marriage a chance, I need my love for you to be as strong as it is today. So, unless and until this situation changes, the only way I can hold on to my love is to end all contact with you.

Being without you is not what I want.

What I want, more than anything, is a committed marriage with you. I promised my life to you — to you and you alone.

I cannot and will not share you.

I cannot and will not ever be your “friend.”

I can only be your wife, in every sense of the word, in the way that I promised to you and to God. That is the only type of relationship with you that I can accept.

Out of respect for my position and my need to protect myself, do not call, send e-mails, or leave messages.

Not unless and until you agree to permanently, forever, and for life cut off all contact with Amy.

Not unless and until you decide that you want to work on building a new relationship with me.

Any necessary communications may be sent through Lisa. Her cell phone number is xxx-xxxx and home number is xxx-xxxx. Her email is xxxx. She will get a message to me.

In terms of the boys, I will assume that you will pick them up from school on “your” Fridays and drop them off around 6:00 on Sundays. During the week, we can continue with the same arrangements we have had for alternating Tuesdays and Wednesdays, with you picking them up from school and bringing them home around 8:00.

When you drop off or pick up the boys, please do not come into the house or attempt to speak to me.

I loved you on the first day I met you. I loved you when I married you.

I loved you when you worked a horrific schedule to be home with Nick, when you held me after my dad’s first surgery, when I proudly stood beside you when you were named Officer of the Year, when visited the farm and the cemetery every Memorial Day, when we worried together over Jake’s bowel problems, when you gave the toast at my parent’s last anniversary together.

I loved you when we marveled at the dappled light on the Pierce Stocking, when we would listen for the first red-winged blackbird in the spring and the first cicada in the summer, when we would document the growth of our maple tree in the fall, and when we would watch Orion’s Belt move across the winter sky.

I loved you when we went camping at Brimley, when we drove on countless back roads just to explore, when we collected rocks at Point Betsie, when we found petoskeys at Torch Lake, when we had “great days at the lake,” when we spent those incredible days in Pentwater, and when we went to Ludington.

I love you still.

Please come home. You know the way.

******************************************************

Remember that you will get many suggestions here. Just edit together what seems to work best for you.

I do think that the shorter, the better. If you can get it on no more than two pages with plenty of short paragraphs, that would help a lot.
Mulan

I'm having trouble keeping track because I go back to make changes and in the meantime a bunch more posts have popped up.

What if this:

I loved you on the first day I met you. I loved you when I married you. I love you still.

I love you because you worked a horrific schedule to be home with Nick. Because you held me after my dad’s first surgery. Because of the pride I felt when you were named Officer of the ....yada yada

That way, he can pretty much skip that paragraph until he's at a place (if ever) that it will enter his foggy brain.

I kind of like Daze's bullets, but I am almost of a mind that those "requests" would be THE buzz...I can see him thinking, "what the heck is she talking about?? Why would I even consider any of that, doesn't she remember I'm D-ING her??? What an idiot."

I honestly believe he'd be more offended and put off by what he would see as DEMANDS than by "why I love yous" The "why Is" are wistful, the demands are, well...demands. And even as an H he was S-T-U-B-B-O-R-N.

Letter beginning...
XXXX, it breaks my heart that unless there are some real and profound changes, this will be the last heartfelt letter that I ever write to you.

and go from there. It sets the tome for the letter...it lets him know that CHANGE is expected from him and that it will need to be sincere.

Good for you Lilsis!

Letter is coming along very nicely.

Have you told MIL about Plan B? Does she understand and support you in this? Does she understand you will not want to talk to her about WH, but you still want contact with her?? And that this is an act of LOVE and HOPE?

Have you thought about how to explain to the boys?? IMO they should also know this is how you are trying to save the family...

Is your intermediary on board and ready to go?

Are you prepared to AVOID his calls and attempts to break your silence? A LOT of times the BS goes to Plan B then sabotages it themselves being hurt that WS seem to LIKE plan B, so therefore contact them to find out why the WS isn't contacting them....(...???...strange but true....)

I sincerely hope you consider moving. Rather soon. Because you simply can't avoid the visuals like this morning. And you just don't need that.

(((SIS)))

I am really beginning to see the point of an attention-grabbing first line...somehow setting THIS letter apart from ANY previous communication (not just the letter two weeks ago, but other I have given in the past)

What about something like, "I deeply regreat that find myself in a place that I need to write you this letter. I hoped it would never come to this."

But if it begins that way...the ILY stuff needs to go to the end...as in Mulan's suggestion. That was where I had it initially...so I'm open.

Dang...lots of differing opinions again. I wished everyone were on the same page.

If it's handwritten, it will not fit on one page, there's no way.

Mulan, I like the shorter paragraphs, but even as you did it, it's still pretty long. And I think I do need some kind of "I believe in you" statement in there. That's what I've been saying to him all along, so to leave it out of this highly significant letter would be...not right somehow.

I love the suggestion to end it with your usual saying,
CY, LY, Bye. It brought tears to my eyes, that says, I believe in you, this isn't just a "tactic", it's real...IMHO

Change the house phone number... the locks(check with your lawyer about this)...change your route so you do not pass by the coffee shop...consider moving...

Sis, listen to yourself - OF COURSE any WH is so far gone that he will hear his wife saying "Stop Seeing Another Woman" as an unreasonable demand.

Of course he will.

But they're not "demands". They are Boundaries that YOU are setting for YOURSELF.

If you want to make that clearer, you can make the letter say something like, "I cannot and will not be part of your life as long as Turd is in it. Since you have chosen not to remove her, I have no choice but to remove myself."

See the difference?

"Get rid of her" is a demand.

"If you keep her, I will remove myself" is a Boundary.

The B in Plan B stands for Boundary.
Mulan

This was my opening line from my first draft.

It is truly sad what has happened to our marriage and us, and the path that I must take now is not one of choice but one of self-preservation.

Just and idea.

You are definately getting lots of opinions, just take your time and sort through them.

Exactly. When FWH got me to break plan B the very first day, I actually kept stating that over and over again. I was't making him do anything. If he wanted to continue his relationship with her that was his choice, but my choise was to remove myself from that situation. I was no longer willing to share my H. So if he wanted her in his life he would no longer have me in it, not even as a friend.

[color:"red"] send a copy of your final letter to your in-laws [/color]

Threadjack:

Pep, LOVE THE NEW TAGLINE!!!!!

(((LilSis)))

I've been following your thread for quite some time, lurking, praying, and pulling for you. I think you have done a fantastic job with your Plan A. I think you may have doubts in the coming days about what you are doing, but I think it's the right thing to do.



That's exactly what it's about. Would you settle for this unpleasant WH or do you want your H back? It's both of the quoted items to me: You are NOT giving up on your marriage, this IS a way to save it, and while you are it you are indeed reclaiming your dignity and self-respect. Everyone hear already respects you for the things you have done - your WH, when the fog lifts someday, will respect you for your Plan A AND Plan B - your stand, your willingness to regain your self-respect and retain your dignity.

I believe that a PBL is an act of love, and could very well be the last love you show someone. I love what you have written.

I know there may be some disagreement on this from the few, but I'm sure the many will agree that a WS WILL READ this letter MANY TIMES. I've seen so many stories where the WS will recap back to the BS parts of the letter they have memorized. KNOW THAT THIS WILL HAPPEN. As the fog comes and goes they will read more or less of it, but THEY WILL re-read it. They will keep it. They will blast it to their lover. They will feel guilty for doing so.

Just my $.02.

My best wishes and prayers for you LilSis, you are a noble person who deserves nothing less than happiness.

Remember: You don't want your WH back. You don't want your WH to hold you and show you the affection he once did. You want your H back who WANTS to do all of these things. He'll have to come to this decision on his own, go dark knowing that.

She and FIL are in California...she said she'd be in touch. Previously, I had talked to her about going dark (not using MB lingo) and she said she would support me in WHATEVER I had to do, and that she completely understood. I don't believe she buys into the idea that my cutting off contact will have ANY impact on WH. She told me she thought that he would interpret it as giving up on him. She's a softy...so am I but I can't afford to be anymore.

Can I really not talk to her about WH?? Yeah, I know...that will be HARD. Luckily she seems to be pretty in the dark about him anyway since they don't talk.

I don't really want to say anything to the boys about this as "saving the family" in case they let that slip to WH, who would use that as evidence that I am manipulating him. I can easily let them know that it is just too hurtful for me to see Dad anymore. They will know that (and will probably be relieved) because of my sobbing mess the other day when I got the letter from court.

She's not thrilled but she'll do it.

I am QUITE sure that WH will LOVE plan B. This is very frightening to me, and will be very very hard. But I MUST MUST MUST do this for my own sanity. I will BE RELYING ON EVERYONE HERE TO KEEP ME ON TRACK. I AM VERY SERIOUS. I am not that strong.

With the D in play, I can't do anything. And the visuals will be there anyway...every time I see a cop car, I will wonder if it's him. I have to drive the gauntlet every morning from the kid's school to my office...there's no avoiding the stretch of road that goes right through the heart of his patrol area. I CAN take measures to avoid the coffee shop, but I can't miss is completely, it's right at the edge of a bridge...I HAVE to go over that bridge to get to the other side of town.

Part of the affair-fantasy is that after the dust settles

~everyone~ will remain good friends

this is what TURD-GIRL has been telling WH

Make sure that WH has been told in Plan B letter there will be NO FRIENDSHIP coming his way once he divorces you

this lets WH imagine his future relationship as such

>>> one of the boys is getting married ... and there is not a joyful coming together of all the parties

>>> the boys are "fathered" by YOUR future husband

Oh yes...please include things like this.

A good PBL ought to put fear in his heart.

He ought to put the letter down, and think "Crap, what have I done???"

~ Marsh

Pep is right, heed her words.

My H asked if we could be friends if we got divorced (due to his A) in a bit of a puppy dog type manner...

I made it clear to my H that we would not be friends if we divorced.

He looked a bit dejected.

This should signal something...

You already put in the WE WON'T BE FRIENDS PART and others have missed it..so YOUR LETTER IS NOT CLEAR enough...

Sis, PLEASE DON'T GET WORRIED AGAIN BY THE DIFFERING OPINIONS...

Relax and have FAITH in YOURSELF..

Now, I will stick neck and say...I agree with everything EXCEPT "this may be your last letter, etc...

The PLAN B LETTER should be a LOVE LETTER...That should be made clear right from the very beginning...in whatever way that you can do that...using your own words...

If you say this may be your last letter, it does not evidence your confidence in him that HE CAN END THE AFFAIR..Repeating what I said before..I know...

But if you put that sentence in there..that's alright, too...Okay?

This is what Sis already said about not being his friend.

i thought the letter was wonderful!

just reading some of the suggestions

i'll share some of the things that jennifer said to me:

i also thought mine was too long but Jennifer said it was important to include the things my H needed to hear. he might not read it all now but may re-read it again when he is ready.

that being said, i do think there may be some things that you may be able to leave out.

my 1st step would be to re-read it and consider thaking out anything that seems to be restating something you already said, then look at the length.



i agree with mimi that this could be removed.

other than those two things, i wouldn't remove TOO much. Jennifer said these things ARE important because they are things that the WS needs to hear.

i haven't read past page 2 but i'll get back when i can

in my opinion....

That is the part of the letter that NEEDS to stand out.
that is the part he really needs to see and understand.
but, first LS...you have to understand it too...do you?


If WH knoocked on your door the day after getting the letter...could you say what Daze did...and mean it?

personally, i still think the letter is a little long....i find myself wanting to skim over it so i really have to wonder what a WH would feel.....I think it is a beuatiful letter but it lacks IMPACT.
I am afraid he will not understand the point of it.

personally I DID Not understand LS words as well as i did the above.
Would a WH? or do you think something more direct (like the above post) would work better for him?

Mimi,

We're looking at the letter from two different POV, I'm looking at it as a FWW...you're looking at it from a BS...

I want the WS to hurt. You want him to feel loved.

LS, take whatever you like, and leave the rest....like Mimi said earlier, "Berry pick."

~ Marsh

personally...I LOVED the paragraph about all the things you did together....the memories and that you loved him thru it all....I'd keep that...THAT is the love letter part.

I would like to see the the remainder of the letter a little darker... very CLEAR...to the point.


like Marsh said...berry pick.

Marsh:

I'm recommending STRICT TEXTBOOK HARLEY from SURVIVING AN AFFAIR..not a Mimi letter...

My copy of the book is at home....

But I know ALMOST for sure that THE BOOK calls it a LOVE LETTER...THE ROADMAP BACK HOME....

I think typed is just fine (easier for him to read). You could actually sign it though with your signature. And maybe that little thingy that y'all always say to each other.

Crap, it's even longer now...but I emphasized the boundaries, and I added some of the "what if" stuff (someone else in my life).

Hope you can wade through it. Sorry....I am liking it, but I am struggling with which end does the ILY stuff go...first or last.

Have at it...

WH,

Because of the pain at what has happened to us and our marriage, it is with great sadness that I must remove myself from what has become an intolerable situation. This path is not one of choice but one of self-preservation.

WH, I loved you on the first day I met you. I loved you when I married you. I love you still. I love you because you worked a horrific schedule to be home with Nick. Because you held me after my dad’s first surgery. Because of the pride I felt when you were named Officer of the Year. Because of how reverently you regard Memorial Day. Because you worried with me over Jake’s bowel problems. Because you gave a beautiful toast at my parent’s last anniversary together. I love you because you will marvel with me at the dappled light on the Pierce Stocking, at the sound of the first red-winged blackbird in the spring, at the first cicada buzz in the summer, at the growth of our maple tree every fall, and the movement of Orion’s Belt across the winter sky. I love you because you introduced me to camping and boating. Because you would take me for rides on countless back roads just to explore. Because you love to skip rocks at Point Betsie and collect petoskeys at Torch Lake. Because you so deeply appreciate a “great day at the lake.” Because you took me to Pentwater, and because you also took me to Ludington. I love you because you know me, inside and out, what makes me beautiful, what makes me human, what frightens me, what pleases me. I love you because you know me more intimately than anyone has ever known me.

I am so sorry for lashing out at you recently. And while I regret many of my actions, I found it just too difficult to sit back and watch our marriage be destroyed without putting up a fight. Sometimes that got the better of me. I know intellectually that only you can save you, but my heart wants so badly to keep you from losing yourself, losing me, losing the boys. I believe in you, in who you are, in the heart and soul of man that I married. I will never believe that man is gone forever. Goodness always prevails.

I am also deeply sorry for my part in creating an environment in our marriage that helped make this situation possible. I wish that I could go back in time and give you all that you needed to be happy: my undivided attention, my affection, my self—with no holding back. I wish I had made “us” my top priority. I hope that one day you will forgive me for the mistakes that I made and give us the opportunity to create a new marriage.

I have changed. I am no longer the same person I was; that would be an impossibility. But the changes I have made have been for the good: an understanding of who I am, of how deeply I love you, of how much I need to make a place for God in my life, and of what it takes to make a marriage work. Over the past couple of months I have attempted to show you these changes. I want to share those changes with you for one reason: because you are the most important person in my life. I wish I had done a better job of showing that truth to you before all of this happened.

I believe with all my heart that together we can overcome all of this and begin a new and better life, one in which each of us are happy and deeply fulfilled. I want this more than anything.

But my emotions over the past couple of weeks have made it clear to me that I need to protect myself from the pain created by this situation. Watching you lose yourself and seeing you with someone else is simply agonizing. I can no longer endure it; it is tearing me apart. If one day you decide to give our marriage a chance, I need my love for you to be as strong as it is today. And I need to be as strong as I am today. So until the situation changes, the only way I can hold on to my love and personal strength is to end all contact with you.

Being apart from you is not what I want.

What I want, more than anything, is you in my life—all of you—and all to myself. I am married to you. I promised my life to you—to you and you alone—and you promised yours to me.

I want to you—not someone else—to be the one I see over coffee when I’m 80. I want you—not someone else—to wipe my tears when our boys graduate and marry. I want you—not someone else—to hold me and make love to me. I want you—not someone else—to experience with me the feelings only parents can have as we watch our boys face successes and heartaches. I want you—not someone else—to read the Christmas story to our children and grandchildren as we celebrate Jesus’ birth together, as a family. I want you—not someone else—to grow with me in developing a relationship with God.

I want no one but you. Only you.

I cannot and will not share you. I cannot and will never be your “friend.” I can only be your wife, in every sense of the word, in the way that I promised to you and to God. That is the only type of relationship that I can accept.

Because our current relationship does not meet that standard, I must end all contact with you. Out of respect for my position and my need to protect myself, please do not call, send e-mails, or leave messages.

Not unless you agree to permanently, forever—for life—cut off all contact with Amy.

Not unless you decide to work on building a new marriage with me.

Those are the only conditions under which we can have any sort of relationship. We will not be friends. We will not share the experiences of family or those of our children.

If you need to reach me, you may communicate through Lisa. Her cell phone number is xxx-xxxx and home number is xxx-xxxx. Her email is xxxx. She will get a message to me. In terms of the boys, I will assume that you will pick them up from school on “your” Fridays and drop them off around 6:00 on Sundays. During the week, we can continue with the same arrangements we have had for alternating Tuesdays and Wednesdays, with you picking them up from school and bringing them home around 8:00. When you drop off or pick up the boys, please do not come into the house or attempt to speak to me.

If you decide that you want to work on building a new marriage with me, I promise you that I will leave the past behind us. I will ask only that you do the same. It will take hard, hard work on both our parts, but it can be done, and it will be worth it. I hope with all my heart that one day you will decide to allow us to make a new and better beginning, together.

Please come home. You know the way.

Careful, love you, bye.

I don't see marsh suggesting anything different....a love letter..... a map back home....w/directions and boundries...all clear enough to make an impact on the WS.

I never read surviving the affair....did it say how long (or short) the letter should be? I thought i heard it shouldn't go over 1 page.

And as you've been saying, Sis, follow your heart...

I'm sharing my personal experience which has tended to FIT so closely to the Harley's viewpoint.

If I had written a letter that put FEAR in my H's heart, it would not have been effective.

The main point of the letter was that I was going into PLAN B to PRESERVE the MY LOVE FOR HIM...in order to do that I could not see or contact him until he ended his R with her FOR LIFE..we could not be friends, etc...because my H maintained a desire to be my FRIEND...

Mortarman told me that my H would read that letter and Mortarman was SOOOOO right...

During our negotiations prior to reconciling, he focused on ..remember you said you could FORGIVE me?....remember you said that we could have a BETTER MARRIAGE?..remember you said that YOUR CHANGES are real?...

A part of him WANTED ME TO MOVE ON at the BEGINNING of PLAN B..I think at the beginning he got deeper into her..Weeee, a free ticket..AND THEN...he began TO MISS ME.. he found out who she REALLY was and she could not meet all his NEEDS and THEN he started READING THE LETTER MORE CLOSELY....

Lilsis, print, sign deliver. Very good.

The love letter that James Dobson wrote to his wife (towards the back of Love Must Be Tough is wonderful. Again, if you haven't read that book it is really good. Not one to let WH see that you have. (it may be a bit longer than you might want for your plan B letter)

Just make sure you conclude with a clear way home..to reconciliation...what needs to happen for you to recover your marriage.

Sorry, I am a bit slow...hadn't seen that you had already posted your revised letter.

1 quick question...if he comes to you for clarification @ the letter....what will you say?

here is my suggestion

WH,

Writing this letter is the hardest thing I've ever done.

I am so sorry for showing you such ugliness and anger a couple of weeks ago and so many times in the past. My frustration at my sheer helplessness only resulted in driving you further away. My heart wants so badly to keep you from making choices that will destroy our family but i need to accept that only you can choose to make changes in yourself. I believe in you, in who you are, in the heart and soul of man that I married. I will never believe that man is gone forever. Goodness always prevails.

I am deeply sorry for my part in creating an environment in our marriage that helped make this situation possible. I wish that I could go back in time and give you all that you needed to be happy: my undivided attention, my affection, my self—with no holding back. I wish I had made “us” my top priority. I hope that one day you will forgive me for the mistakes that I made and give us the opportunity to create a new marriage.

I have changed. I am no longer the same person I was; that would be an impossibility. But the changes I have made have been for the good: an understanding of who I am, of how deeply I love you, of how much I need to make a place for God in my life, and of what it takes to make a marriage work. Over the past couple of months I have attempted to show you these changes. I want to share those changes with you for one reason: because you are the most important person in my life. I wish I had done a better job of showing that truth to you before all of this happened.

I believe with all my heart that together we can overcome all of this and begin a new and better life, one in which each of us are happy and deeply fulfilled. I want this more than anything.

My emotions over the past couple of weeks have made it clear to me that I need to protect myself from the pain created by this situation. Watching you lose yourself and seeing you with someone else is simply agonizing. I can no longer endure it; it is tearing me apart. If one day you decide to give our marriage a chance, I need my love for you to be as strong as it is today. And I need to be as strong as I am today. So until the situation changes, the only way I can hold on to my love and personal strength is to end all contact with you.

This is not what I want.

What I want, more than anything, is to have you in my life—all of you—and all to myself. I am married to you. I promised my life to you—you and you alone. I cannot and will not share you. I cannot and will never be your “friend.” I can only be your wife, in every sense of the word, in the way that I promised to you and to God. That is the only type of relationship that I can accept.

Out of respect for my position, please do not call, send e-mails, or leave messages unless you agree to forever—for life—cut off all contact with Amy and you decide that you want to work on building a new relationship with me.

If you need to reach me, you may communicate through Lisa. Her cell phone number is xxx-xxxx and home number is xxx-xxxx. Her email is xxxx. She will get a message to me. In terms of the boys, I will assume that you will pick them up from school on “your” Fridays and drop them off around 6:00 on Sundays.

During the week, we can continue with the same arrangements we have had for alternating Tuesdays and Wednesdays, with you picking them up from school and bringing them home around 8:00. When drop off or pick up the boys, please do not come into the house or attempt to speak to me.

If you decide that you want to work on building a new marriage with me, I promise you that I will leave the past behind us. I will ask only that you do the same. It will take hard, hard work on both our parts, but it can be done, and it will be worth it. I hope with all my heart that one day you will decide to allow us to make a new and better beginning, together.

Please come home. You know the way.

I guess I'm of a mind that a WH won't REALLY read it anyway. No matter how short or long....he'll read it, but he will skim it and say, whatever.

LATER, when he begins to notice that I'm really AWOL, then he might begin to wonder...what's that about again?

LATER, (this is all conjecture of course), when he TRIES to make contact with me for some oddball reason and he can't, he'll ask, why not?

LATER, when he really WANTS to see me, then he'll have to read it more carefully. And choose whether he wants to act on it.

******

Here's one thing that scares me. You all know I read Lori's story over and over. She never did a Plan B, she remained avaiable and was friendly. At some point, her WH had a medical crisis, and called her...knowing that he could trust her.

Do you think Plan B eliminates the "trust" ugh, hate to use that word, but I hope you get my meaning...???

I agree with MEDC..print, sign, deliver..when you have EVERYTHING in place and are READY to move forward with it....

No

I like eavs letter..it is very clear.

it does lack the "warm fuzzies"....she took out the ILY when... memories you shared......i found that part very endearing and was hopeful that it would tug at his heart......but, it does make the letter very long.

I cut some things because I still think you're taking way too much responsibility here. Remember, any WS and OP will leap on those things to justify what they are doing. Do not give them that opportunity! What remains in the letter is enough for you to take ownership of your part.

Please cut, cut, cut whatever else you can for length.

**************************************
It is with great sadness that I must remove myself from what has become an intolerable situation. This path is not one of choice but one of self-preservation.

WH, I loved you on the first day I met you. I loved you when I married you. I love you still.

I love you because you worked a horrific schedule to be home with Nick. Because you held me after my dad’s first surgery. Because of the pride I felt when you were named Officer of the Year. Because of how reverently you regard Memorial Day. Because you worried with me over Jake’s bowel problems. Because you gave a beautiful toast at my parent’s last anniversary together.

I love you because you will marvel with me at the dappled light on the Pierce Stocking, at the sound of the first red-winged blackbird in the spring, at the first cicada buzz in the summer, at the growth of our maple tree every fall, and the movement of Orion’s Belt across the winter sky.

I love you because you introduced me to camping and boating. Because you would take me for rides on countless back roads just to explore. Because you love to skip rocks at Point Betsie and collect petoskeys at Torch Lake. Because you so deeply appreciate a “great day at the lake.” Because you took me to Pentwater, and because you also took me to Ludington.

I love you because you know me, inside and out, what makes me beautiful, what makes me human, what frightens me, what pleases me. I love you because you know me more intimately than anyone has ever known me.

I wish that I could go back in time and give you all that you needed to be happy: my undivided attention, my affection, my self—with no holding back. I wish I had made “us” my top priority. I hope that one day you will forgive me for the mistakes that I made and give us the opportunity to create a new marriage.

I have changed. I am no longer the same person I was; that would be an impossibility. But the changes I have made have been for the good: an understanding of who I am, of how deeply I love you, of how much I need to make a place for God in my life, and of what it takes to make a marriage work.

Over the past couple of months I have attempted to show you these changes. I want to share those changes with you for one reason: because you are the most important person in my life. I wish I had done a better job of showing that truth to you before all of this happened.

I believe with all my heart that together we can overcome all of this and begin a new and better life, one in which each of us are happy and deeply fulfilled. I want this more than anything.

But the past couple of weeks have made it clear to me that I need to protect myself from the pain created by this situation.

Watching my husband with another woman is simply agonizing. I can no longer endure it; it is tearing me apart.

If you decide to give our marriage a chance, I need my love for you to be as strong as it is today. And I need to be as strong as I am today. So until the situation changes, the only way I can hold on to my love and personal strength is to end all contact with you.

Being apart from you is not what I want.

What I want, more than anything, is to have you in my life — all of you and all to myself. I am married to you. I promised my life to you — to you and you alone — and you promised yours to me.

I want to you — not some other man — to be the one I see over coffee when I’m 80.

I want you — not some other man — to wipe my tears when our boys graduate and marry.

I want you — not some other man — to hold me and make love to me.

I want you - not some other man — to experience with me the feelings only parents can have as we watch our boys face successes and heartaches.

I want you — not some other man — to read the Christmas story to our children and grandchildren as we celebrate Jesus’ birth together, as a family.

I want you — not some other man — to grow with me in developing a relationship with God.

But I cannot and will not share you with another woman.

I cannot and will not ever be your “friend” while you do this.

I can only be your wife, in every sense of the word, in the way that I promised to you and to God. That is the only type of relationship that I can accept.

Because you have chosen not to offer me that type of relationship, I must end all contact with you. Out of respect for my position and my need to protect myself, please do not call, send e-mails, or leave messages.

Do not contact me unless you choose to permanently, forever and for life cut off all contact with Amy.

Do not contact me unless you choose to work on building a new marriage with me and only with me.

If you need to reach me, you may communicate through Lisa. Her cell phone number is xxx-xxxx and home number is xxx-xxxx. Her email is xxxx. She will get a message to me. In terms of the boys, I will assume that you will pick them up from school on “your” Fridays and drop them off around 6:00 on Sundays. During the week, we can continue with the same arrangements we have had for alternating Tuesdays and Wednesdays, with you picking them up from school and bringing them home around 8:00. When you drop off or pick up the boys, please do not come into the house or attempt to speak to me.

If you decide that you want to work on building a new marriage with me, I promise you that I will leave the past behind us. I will ask only that you do the same. It will take hard, hard work on both our parts, but it can be done, and it will be worth it. I hope with all my heart that one day you will decide to allow us to make a new and better beginning, together.

Please come home. You know the way.

Careful, love you, bye.
************************************************

LilSis:

This revised letter is great. Massaged just enough.

Lots of back and forth around here, Longer/Shorter/Love letter/2x4/hand written/typed

My recommendation:

First Line: "in order to keep my heart from breaking further, and allowing the most opportunity to repair our hearts, this may become the last love letter I ever write to you.

The Para about all the ILY/Kids/Dad/OfcrofYear is in the right place.

NOW SEND IT.

Send it to your In-Laws. (MB'ers: Anyone else should get a copy?)

And WH will either read it, or not.

WH will try to break Plan B the next day. Or maybe not.

But, if you go dark, and when he tries to break Plan B, You give him another copy. That's why typing it is easier. Copies easier.

WH will read it eventually. 1 day later, 15 days later, 10 years later.

But that is his choice.

When he DECIDES TO REALLY READ IT, THAT IS WHEN HE HAS FINALLY DECIDED TO COME HOME.

And your letter tells him the terms, and why you are doing this, and the way home. And he can come home.

And if he never decides to read it?

Then it really doesn't matter what it says.


Finish it and Send it. Today. Too many cooks spoil the broth. AND it will never be perfect.

I loved the changes you made, LS.

~ Marsh

the way I look at it Lilsis... when Mimi, LG and I can all agree on something... well, it must be a "go!"

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

i see your point...hopefully he will refer to the letter.....LATER.
as long as you are willing to send him elsewhere for clarification....i say send it...it is a beautiful letter.

This is the new first sentence: (I keep changing it...need to find the perfect one)

Writing you this letter is the most difficult thing I have ever done, but doing so is my only hope for preserving my love for you and for keeping my heart from breaking further.

???


I also changed the someone else to some other man as Mulan did.

???

Other than that...I'm going with it as is (although I think I fixed up a few typos). I know it's long. But everything is there. Everything he needs to know, and everything I need to say.

Should I start a poll??

Like it
Don't like it

And we haven't even gotten around to the hows and wherefores... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

LilSis:

Remember one thing:



You can decide to end Plan B at any time for any reason.

I could never, ever, call OW with crises. What could SHE do about it. She's not part of that fantasy.

If your H, had an issue, a medical issue, and tried to contact you, YOU would know that it is different, JUST LIKE WH would.

Even better!

I LOVED Mulan's suggestion as well.

Glad you went w/ it.

When do you plan on sending/giving it to him?

~ Marsh

LS:

Regarding the poll:

NO
NO
NO
NO

It will never be perfect.

Accept this.



Delivery is next time he picks up or delivers the kids. Give him a big hug, Look into his eyes, C,LY,B, and then hand him the letter and show him the door.

Keep it simple.

I had emailed it to Neak, and she suggested an addendum with the details of contact...kid's schedules, Lisa's contact info, etc.

i like it.
i like the change you made to the first sentence.
as long as you are comfortable w/ what you will do if he comes asking questions.....i am not sure why, but I see him being very confused and i don't know how he will handle that.

i like that. I have been trying to suggest soemthing like that but wasn't very clear, i guess. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

I was just kidding about the poll. It kind of struck me, too, that so rarely is there consensus here...

Kid pick-up is tomorrow morning sometime. Even though this is his weekend, he signed up for overtime tonight. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

OOOHHHH...just thought of something...

I don't say anything about keeping to our agreement that the kids are not around RT....

The lawyers are aware of it, but it is not in the orders...

I heard you, but I interpreted it as a LATER letter, a second letter. And with all the advice flying, it's hard to keep it straight.

I think I'll just leave it as is. Leave it to him to sort it out when he needs to contact me about something and he can't reach me.

No handwriting...mines not that good to begin with, I'm so used to typing anymore.

I was serious when i said i wasn't CLEAR...i know i wasn't clear ....i can see how people could misinterpret my posts.
<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

i like the letter. i think it has the balnce it needs...a little long...but, i like your reasoning. go for it!

Plan B is hard LilSis. You can do this, but be prepared:

The problem is that in Plan A, we all have a tendency to become crisis junkies. Our days and nights and conversations revolve around "updates" about what the WS did, said, looked like, parked, what the WS might be thinking...etc. Plan A involves lots of planning, how to ambuse the WS with love, how to expose, how to talk to a foggy spouse...etc.

Plan B closes that all down. And this is where the danger lies. The BS has to have something, ALOT of somethings to fill that void. Some WS's are offended by plan B and do everything imaginable to force the BS to reengage in the triangle. Some WSs are thrilled that reality (so they think) is no longer intruding and do not contact the BS.

The problem is that a BS without enought to do will find excuses to check in with the WH.

Plan B means Getting on with Plan YOU. You are preserving your love and protecting yourself, but your life is NO LONGER on hold and no longer should include the WS at all. (that doesn't mean start dating!)

BR: I believe for the next few days, I will just relish it. Ever since that meltdown two weeks ago, I have felt off-kilter, so this will be a welcome respite.

I want off this crisis rollercoaster...I want some peace. I want to quit planning my next move, wondering how to WOW him...this creepy guy. The problem is that of course I KNOW I will still wonder, etc. I've read enough of other's experiences to know those first few days, weeks are particularly hard.

Again...something in my favor...in nine days WH will be leaving for Phoenix. At least he won't be in my "sphere" anymore for a period of time.

This weekend the boys are with him...next week the challenge will be parent/teacher conferences, but he can make his own arrangements. I already signed up, and got confirmation yesterday of dates/times...never got around to telling him. I will have to have Lisa inform him that the boys have a half a day on Weds., which is WH's usual day.

I am CERTAIN that WH will be one of those who is THRILLED by my Plan B. Weeeeeee...the free ticket, right? That's him.

I will NOT miss WH. I dislike him so. As I said this morning, he disgusts me.

But I will miss...I DO miss...my H...the one I wrote about in my PBL.

[color:"red"] GO [/color]

In all seriousness - why on earth is this your problem? He's the one who wants to be divorced, right? Well, a good part of Plan B is to give the WS a good ol' heapin' helpin' of what it's REALLY like to be divorced.

Is Lisa going to be keeping WH up-to-date on the kids' activities if you and he are divorced? No? Then why would she do that for him now??


Please see above. He has NO idea of how much he really depends on you and on how much you really do for him. He's about to find out. The conferences are just the first small example.

Sure, at first he'll behave like a kid who just got of school early with no more mean old teacher to tell him what to do.

But when he starts to realize how cold and dark it really is out there with NO LilSis at all, it's not going to seem like so much fun.

There are many stories here of how some WS do not contact the BS at all during Plan B and seem to put on a show of not caring - but when they return to the marriage, it comes out that they were actually suffering a great deal from Plan B but were just too "proud" to let anyone know.

Don't be so certain.
Mulan

exactly


tell him squat ... if he wants to be involved with the kids' school issues, it is all up to him ....



[b]what would happen if you did not have Lisa pass this info on?

nothing terrible???

Then let it be

Your older son can tell his Dad ... or Dad can make the effort to call the school and find out for himself

Pep

Good Job on your letter sis.

I know you're emotionally ready for this.
Is everything else in order?

Able to block his contact attempts? Able to protect yourself from even knowing about them?
You don't want to get into the anxiety about him NOT calling.

At first, they take it like a punishment. So be prepared.
Sometimes they try to invent reasons (not real emergencies).
He will at some point want to make sure you're still there waiting.

The quietness is peaceful for you -- but anxiety for him.
Thats where he will have to face himself.

change the locks on the doors and the garage door remote control thing-y (the code)

Pep

agreed... but only after getting the okay from her lawyer. Very important.

i know the suggestions must be driving you crazy!

but i do have one more thing to add:

i would avoid any phrases that sound "negative" because you don't want to bring to his mind anything that will make yourself sound bad ("such ugliness and anger"). you want him to "feel your love and your pain"


"what has become an intolerable situation"

possibly change to-"from this very painful situation"


"I'm sorry for showing such ugliness and anger"

possibly change to-"I'm sorry that i wasn't able to find a better way to share my feelings."


I cannot and will not share you. I cannot and will never be your “friend.”

-i had similar wording and Jennifer suggested that I emphasis that it "hurts me too much"


you're doing a great job of dealing with this!

eav:
The first two are out of my final version, so good! The part about sharing him and being his friend...I see how it can be a negative to WH, but for me, it is a boundary, and I feel like I need that to be clear with him.

Pep and MEDC: The orders say that I have sole possession of the home, so I can have the locks changed if I choose. The trick will be finding a locksmith who's not willing to do a little favor for a cop....my GF opened my eyes to that one.

He never calls, anyway, so....

He blocks his cell, so it comes up "private caller" on caller ID. The only other "private caller" that I know of is my sister when she calls from work, or my IC's office. They will both leave messages.

Are you referring to email, too? That would be the only other way. I guess I could figure out how to block email. Do I have to? As long as I don't respond, can't I read them?...or is that cheating?

What are the rules again? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> I suppose I should know.

Ahhh...tellin' ya. He'll be on cloud nine. This is going to be waaay harder for me than for him.

I feel good, though, for the moment. DS8 and I went to Blockbuster after pick up and picked out some movies. I'm making his favorite dinner (biscuits and gravy...ewww...I am a northerner, through and through so I don't know where this kid got hooked on this stuff) and we are going to do popcorn and movies tonight. DS11 is at a sleepover.

It snowed about 8 inches today, so he shoveled and I ran the snowblower. I actually got it going!!

Course it started to stink towards the end...kind of like how the vacuum cleaner stinks when the belt is going bad??? Sorry...I don't know what else to relate it to...anybody???

Sorry, Sis. No Contact means ABSOLUTELY NO CONTACT. This is a problem for a couple of reasons: Any contact with him will start your own WITHDRAWAL from HIM..which might occur in your case, not sure. Plus, he will know that you have read the e-mail..he wouldn't know FOR SURE that you did not..so there's a break in NO CONTACT in his mind...HE SHOULD HAVE NO AVENUE TO REACH YOU OTHER THAN COMING TO YOU BEGGING AND PLEADING...

Okay, then I'll need someone to tell me how to block his emails so he knows they are blocked or so they bounce back to him.

Please don't tell me you are suggesting I change my email address...??? That wouldn't accomplish the goal of him knowing that I'm not getting them. (did that make sense???)

What do you mean about me in withdrawal?

If you have sole possesion of the home AND change your locks... he would be committing a 1st degree felony by entering your home without invitation. Get a locksmith and change the locks or do it yourself if you only have a few doors. Very simple and easy to follow instructions for that job. If you have an alarm... change the code... if not consider installing one.

as far as the emails go... put him on your block list. If you are using outlook express... go to the tools tab and to message rules. Add him to the blocked sender list. He will know when he is blocked the next time he tries to send you something.

LS:

I wanted to comment on this:



I'm a Northener too!

And I can't get enough of the stuff!

I have to limit my consumption cuz LG wouldn't be able to see the golf ball....

LOL

LS:

It's going to be an ugly couple of weeks, then it will turn into a silent truce. See Silentlucidity's Plan B Thread. And Mimi's as well I pulled up last week. That's where the withdrawal comes in....

((((LS))))

LG

Lilsis,
You are getting your fix of WH too. It may not feel like it. But once its gone, you're gonna notice.

You will have to stop yourself from wanting contact with him. You'll find yourself thinking about him, wondering what he's thinking and doing. Trying to catch a glimpse of him when he picks up the boys...

He has occupied a very large space in your life. It is going to feel weird to you when its empty. That is why we suggest getting busy! Fill your time. Expend your energies. So that you can withdraw from him.

(Pay attention to those cravings and feelings cuz that is how he is gonna feel when he cuts off RT.)

We talk a lot about how the WS goes through withdrawal when they go NC. You're gonna experience it too.

Lil Sis,
I had a crazy day at work today and never checked in. I just read this whole thread. You are going to make it.

When you think you aren't come here and vent. We'll all be here for you.

You asked who else should get a copy. Dr. Harley says to send a copy to the OW. I would send a copy to Lisa. She can resend it to him when he wants to make contact.

Hang in there, honey. We're all praying and pulling for you.

Sis,

The letter looks good to me.

I wouldn't worry too much about the details of the comings and goings - these things have a way of working themselves out. A general outline should do. If you get too detailed, the other side will use it to "prove" how nutty you've become ("Look, she's even outlined to every detail how we are to exchange the boys, down to the exact time, where they are to stand and wait for WH, etc.").

For awhile, it might help if you just aren't there when he comes by to drop them off or pick them up, if you can work that out.

I agree with the others - if WH wants to be involved in the school goings-on, he is a big boy and he knows exactly where he can get a copy of the school calendar, activity information, and teacher contact information. You could give a copy of the school calendar when he comes to get the boys tomorrow, and tell him it's "his copy" and that he will need it.

That, along with the Plan B letter, ought to give him the message. If he can't figure out that he needs to get the boys early on Wedesday, it will be his first "baptism by fire", won't it? Just the FIRST on a long list of things you have always done that he will begin to see.......

You can prep him by being sure you have older son say something. A copy of the calendar. The comment he will need the calendar. But seriously, if WH is going to be on his own, as he has said, you have to let go and let him be on his own. And this includes allowing him to fail if it comes to that. BUT, you know what? He just might surprise you.

Wouldn't that be a great thing?

We can always hope.

SB

Yet!

I would second the motion to send one to the OW. I have never regretted doing so for a moment. It was my full-on declaration of war.

I experienced some of that withdrawal this summer when we were going through a bunch of back and forth. On a couple of occassions I said I was done, but something always happened...I caved. But I wasn't working a plan, then, I was just flailing.

One thing that occurred to me earlier....and maybe this isn't an issue for this forum...but anyway.

Hope vs. Belief.

I know that I will continue to have hope, but I do not believe that WH will come around. That makes me sad. I wish I had belief, too.

Just thinking.

Also, I'm going to try to reach MIL tonight and let her know in advance.

It just occurred to me - how are you going to handle MIL? You won't be able to talk to her about WH anymore in plan B, right?

LilSis,

I've been keeping up with your situation at work... damn work got in the way at times.

You got great advice from the pros...if you don't mind I may use some of the things in your letter in mine... wwhen the time comes.

Just wanted you to know I'm thinking of you.

Still

I THINK Fiat may be right about the MIL..

I recall that being a major problem with Oklahoma..she kept on getting info. about her WH..and it wouldn't be good for MIL to give WH info. about Sis..MIL would have to be awfully strong and trustworthy to abide by these rules.

RE: MIL
She is very, very good about confidentiality. She is the furthest thing from gossipy if that makes any sense; she is NOT compelled to "tell." She has always been very clear with me that she shares NOTHING of our conversations with WH; she even asks if she is free to tell FIL particulars that I might say.

Is that what you are getting at? I'm not sure which way yu are concerned about...MIL revealing WH stuff to me, or revealing me to WH. ??

RE: PBL to RT.
I also noted that in SAA, but I can't send it to RT. "No direct or indirect contact." RT would probably claim anthrax.

Too bad. It would feel good to know she'd read it.

Sometimes I do wonder if WH would share it with her or not, because I think he might be a little afraid of her. She HAS THE POWER, remember? I'd be afraid of her...she's eeeevil.

Oh, well, all speculation and it's pointless to do so.

Lisa will definately get a copy, just as an FYI...and I will give her a school calendar.

I will give the one-page school calendar with the PBL; any more detailed info can be accessed online. That's how I get most of my info (that stuff somehow mysteriously disappears between school and home in the backpack black hole).

I just know the first question is going to be, "When are conferences?" so I'll have to prep Lisa on that one. "If you would like to meet with the boys' teachers, you will have to make your own arrangements." Right???

DS11's teacher and I met at fall conferences and she knows that WH left home (not the reason), DS8's teacher just had a baby, and I met the long-term sub yesterday when I did math helper duty. I doubt she knows anything, but at least I've already made a positive impression.

Poor Lisa. She doesn't really want to do this...she's only doing it for me. I just can't think of anyone else who "gets" me and who won't be conned by WH. If WH gives her any crap, she can turn it over to her FWH.

DS8 just finished his B&G (here's to you, LG), so I'm going to get us set up for our movie night...

Neak...I made the change about "if" to "when" as per your suggestion... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Hey, did I THANK EVERYONE for everything today?!? No, I did not!!

THANK YOU EVERYONE!!! for the letter, for the support, for the good wishes and PRAYERS. I'll keep needing them all...

Here is one way to handle phones:

With the landline house phone, just turn off the ringers. That way, you will not be sitting there waiting for it to ring because you've fixed it so it ain't gonna ring. Anyone who needs to can leave you a message, but if they call and hang up before getting the voice mail or message machine you will never know it.

With your cell phone, just turn it off. If/when the boys are at school or otherwise not with you, turn it back on every hour or so to see if there are any messages. If the boys are with you, you can leave it off for longer periods. If someone calls while the cell is off but does not leave a message, you will never know it.

Believe me, there can be nothing worse than agonizing over a phone that does not ring. Handling the phones like this gives you control over that and gives you the relief of not having to know whether WH tried to call or not.

Then you can tell yourself that he DID call and is stressed cos' you wouldn't answer.

Heh.

Whatever gets you through the night.

Don't worry. If he really wants to talk to you, he WILL leave a message. Or show up on the doorstep. Or move a few mountains and swim a few oceans to get back to you.

You don't want him back until he does.
Mulan

I was more concerned about MIL telling you about WH. Sounds like her talking to WH about you won't be a problem.

Okay, you're right on this one, with your particular situation and the RO and all that. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> But I think you can be sure she'll end up seeing it sooner or later - and probably sooner.


I say no, no, no on this!!! This kind of stuff has got to be HIS problem now. No more helpful wife doing this for him. He wants to be divorced? Give him a big heaping helping of it - the more the better.


Absofreakinlutely! You can use this as a standard reponse for just about any request he might make. Just have Lisa make it part of her vocabulary.


Please make her a nice batch of cookies and give her and her FWH some movie tickets or something. Let her know how important this is and that she may very well be helping to save a family, and that you most fervently appreciate what she is doing.

Hang in there. You can do this. It WILL get easier.
Mulan

BOTH...NEITHER is OK...

If you want RT to see the letter... ask your MIL to send her a copy from her house... a "look at what you did" copy of your letter with a forward from her letting RT KNOW she will NEVER be welcome in the family. That will most definitely cause a MAJOR stir!!!

Ohhh...interesting idea, MEDC! I don't know if MIL would do it, though...for one thing, RT does not exisit to her, and for another thing, she has commited to only doing what is true in her heart. Highest moral ground, etc. She might see it as playing down at RT's level, somehow.

Hmmm...worth a thought, though. Could you imagine being on the receiving end of that one? Wah.

Just something to throw out before I head off to bed (been a long day)...about the delivery tomorrow. Assuming I hand off the letter when we do kid exchange tomorrow as planned...anything special about that? Any big words of advice?

I had gotten this book for him to take on his trip...do I give that to him as sort of a last good-bye? "I had gotten this for you, but since I won't be speaking to you before you go I thought I'd give it to you now..." that's dumb, but just trying to throw something out there for consideration...

Things to say, not say...keep it short...show emotion? be cold?

This will be happening in the AM, so I need to be slightly ready...have some idea...LG was pretty straight forward with his suggestion.

Keep it very short. Give him the letter, the book and a hug if he allows it and send him on his way. This is going to be tough on you Lilsis... you will need to be strong. Make it as easy as possible by not setting yourself up for anything. This is NOT a negotiation.

You will be in my thoughts and prayers.

BTW.. what is your name? It will help with the prayers.

MEDC (Robert)

LS,



You are Strong and he is weak.



Head UP, shoulders back, SUPER BIG SMILE, look him in the eye when you deliver.




Confidence, on every level.



Walk away.



Get in your car, turn up your radio, always deliver drive by cheerful waves. Smile.



This always bugged my exh/gfs... I don't care.



Their just messin with your mind/heart. NOT anymore.



Collect your self. You are in CONTROL of U and are a good civil person.



More personal support BACK UP.



This is not your fault.



He made different choices. For now he chose an extreme different value system than you.



You will be able to handle this smoothly and peacefully.



Victim no more. You have a good grip.



I wonder if attending a local DV care support in your area during this time might be helpful to you during this transition.


So that your not so isolated& meet other nice people.



www.divorcecare.com

((((((LilSis)))))))

I've got your back, in prayer.

You are doing the right thing.

I am reminded this morning of the beautiful hymn "Great is Thy Faithfulness" and hope the words bring you comfort this morning...

Great is Thy faithfulness, O God my Father;
There is no shadow of turning with Thee;
Thou changest not, Thy compassions, they fail not;
As Thou hast been, Thou forever will be.

Great is Thy faithfulness!
Great is Thy faithfulness!
Morning by morning new mercies I see.
All I have needed Thy hand hath provided;
Great is Thy faithfulness, Lord, unto me!

Summer and winter and springtime and harvest,
Sun, moon and stars in their courses above
Join with all nature in manifold witness
To Thy great faithfulness, mercy and love.

Pardon for sin and a peace that endureth
Thine own dear presence to cheer and to guide;
Strength for today and bright hope for tomorrow,
Blessings all mine, with ten thousand beside!

Great is Thy faithfulness!
Great is Thy faithfulness!
Morning by morning new mercies I see.
All I have needed Thy hand hath provided;
Great is Thy faithfulness, Lord, unto me!

Blessings,
Glad

I BELIEVE!

Good morning, Glad.
Thank you. The hymn I am reminded of is "Be Not Afraid." I don't know if it's only a Catholic hymn, but it ALWAYS affected me. We selected it to be the communion hymn at my dad's funeral...so now I cannot even hear it without crying. So it's probably not the best one to have rolling around in my head these days...

The refrain is:
Be not afraid,
I go before you always,
Come follow Me,
and I shall give you rest.

The lyrics are along the same lines as Ps23, but not nearly as uplifting.

I am afraid this morning.

I tried calling MIL last night, but couldn't get through on their cell. Could be they don't have coverage? I would REALLY like to talk to MIL before I do this. There's no point in waiting...for some reason I just wish I could hear her blessing first. I know that I will get it, but...

I suppose this is one of those times that I have to stand on my own.

WH just called, asking about picking up DS8. Since WH worked overtime last night, he didn't get the boys as he was supposed to (this is his weekend). Of course, he took the OT without checking with me first; he just announced it. But that's another story.

Anyway, I spoke to him yesterday morning (this was before I saw his truck at the coffee shop)...hey...I forgot to tell this yesterday...I called to cheerfully yesterday AM to ask him to breakfast and tell him I shaved my legs again...hee, hee. I said this all in fun, laughingly. He said again that he would pass. Then he said something about the taxes, telling me how much the refund would be.

Then he asked about getting the boys in the morning. I told him that DS11 had a sleepover so we'd have to work that out, but I would prefer it if he got DS8 early in the morning so that I could have "my" weekend. He said that would be fine and that he would take DS8 out to breakfast.

Anyway...so he just called, "Is DS8 ready to go to breakfast?" FYI...it is 8:30. The kid's been up since 7. Sorry, WH, but Saturday AM is a big cartoon morning and we still have leftover biscuits and gravy. I'm thinking this, of course, not saying it.

LS: Well, he already had breakfast and DS11 should be getting home around 10 so why don't I just call you.
WH: That would be fine.
LS: Okay, Bye.
WH: Bye.

So...here's my epiphany after that little interaction....it will be MUCH harder to Plan B how I IMAGINE him than it will be to Plan B the REALITY.

You are all saying...Duh.

Because there he is on the phone...cold...no thank you for accomodating my overtime, no "oh, darn, I was really looking forward to taking DS8 to breakfast," no "I guess I should have called BEFORE 8:30," no "I can't wait to see them because I have great plans for them today."

The boys are just another "job" in his life now.

So...I have these interactions with him, interactions that strenghten my resolve to Plan B. But in Plan B, I will no longer have those interactions.

Again....DUH.

Call me a slow learner. Just realizing how tough it is going to be. I have a feeling I will be on here a lot today. I am having dinner tonight with my neighbor and her husband...and I have A LOT of snow blowing to do, we got another 8 inches last night and it's still snowing. I'm kind of looking forward to that. I feel just a teeny bit bad a$$ when I snow blow.

Thanks, Lex. Now which is it:

**everyone here is biased towards things working out in my M because that's what everyone here wants for him/herself, and one person's success gives hope for others?

or

**I'm too close to the trees to see the forest?

I think it's my gut, though, telling me, "It ain't gonna work out, Sis. Sorry to say."

The book I am reading now, "Life of the Beloved," is all about how we--each one of us, each unique, special individual, every ONE--is a loved and chosen child of God. It's very uplifting...and it's very much written to help the reader BELIEVE that truth, and understand what it means in terms of how one lives his/her life.

So it's a good fit for me right now...talks a LOT about how we can't let the "world" define us, or succumb to self-rejection...all we need to know is that we are a deeply loved child of God.

morning.
thinking of you. stay strong.

LilSis,

Stay strong and dark in your plan B. It WILL work, and the darker you go, the quicker it will be over with. Your WH has been cake-eating for the last 3 months now. You have set him up perfectly for plan B. Believe in yourself, and believe in your H (not WH). Whenever you get the urge to break plan B, remember that you are doing it so that you can spend the rest of your life with your H, not just get a few crumbs here and there. Stay strong. I know you can do this. It's going to be hard, but remind yourself of the prize. I'm praying for you. Now go and knock that WH of yours off the fence. We'll see how he likes only being in the neighbor's yard.

LS,

My prayers are with you and your sons today. I hope your Plan B works out for your and your family's best.

nab

ya know LS,

we all had our funeral clothes picked out for Mortarman's marriage

it was certain death

and his WIFE (the wayward) did the CPR

and it came as a shock to everyone

NOW, they are expecting another baby !!!!!!!!!

you just never know

decide to have a good day, regardless

I am supporting your efforts 100%

Pep

He knows he's not being a very good father deep inside.
His boys are sad, angry, needy, etc -- and he KNOWS he is the reason. So he avoids them. Because it causes HIM more pain to face it.

But he won't face that. And he's trying to cover it up with anything he can. He still sees them. He still calls. And RT is doing anything she can to reinforce him. She builds him up. To the barely sustainable level of living with himself.

LS, I suspect your WH feels really awful about himself and what he's doing. I guarantee the drug doesn't work so good anymore.

In a very big way he is hiding from you. He has so much pain, but he won't allow himself to show it to you.

He's still going along with "the Plan" so he has to be cold to you. He thinks by being cold to you, you will lose your love for him, and let him off the hook.

Your Plan A represents pressure to him. He's not capable of receiving loving acts from you. But they do get through to him on a subconscious level.

Plan B is going to bewilder him. He's pushed you too far. Now he might get what he's been saying he wanted (but truly doesn't want).

Here is where the pressure will come to the affair.

RT is going to be HAPPY at the progression of the divorce. Inappropriately. And it will anger him.
His boys are angry, sad, needy, hurt -- and he knows he is the reason. The fantasy of the happy step-family is going to be shattered.
But the possiblity that Lilsis will move on with someone new (someone good) will haunt him.

In his imagination, he will see Lilsis, LS's new man and the two boys in WH's home being HAPPY. They don't have the ugliness WH and RT have. This "new man" is a HUGE THREAT to WH.

He will expect more from the drug. The drug isn't making him happy like it was supposed to.

LilSis:


In regards to this:



Yes, it is, but it's like the Verizon commercial, we all have your back. We are your network. Some are praying, and some are just thinking about you.



And in Plan B, you will no longer be interpeting every interaction. It just is.

His choices, His outcomes to those choices.

And I loved this:



It's like Tim Allen in Home Improvement... More Power!!!!

((((LS))))

LG

[color:"red"]so true

bur YOU will not "see" this .... because you are going to be DARK

only TURDS rejoice the break-up of your family [/color]

He is so addicted to the drug. The drug made him so happy when he started.
And if he can clear away everything else, so he doesn't lose the drug, then the drug will make him REALLY happy.

So you and the boys become part of the "clearning away."

And nothing you DO...nothing you SAY...will stop him from seeking the happiness he KNOWS he will get from the drug.

The drug has to fail him. It has to fail to produce the great happiness he is expecting.

And of course all of us logical thinking people can see that the drug cannot meet his expectations! But he will have to see that for himself.

Starting today, he has to rely on the drug alone for his happiness. And its going to start failing him.

I truly 100% BELIEVE. The drug will not make him happy.
And he will break his addiction. I BELIEVE.

LilSis,

That is one of my favorite hymms, I also cry when I hear this one also. There are a few that I always tear up at, It the hymms at church that effect me most. I think singing out loud is one of the best ways to praise God. When all this happened to me I couldn't make it through Mass. without balling. My kids would just hug me...I'm tearing up just thnking of it. I'm the one that is suppose to be strong for them. Several times it was the other way around. I hope that this doesn't damage my kids anymore then this D does. But of course according to Wh it's no big deal, they'll get over it. He!! according to him they should be over it now.

Just remember those interactions with WH and how cold he is. That will help get you through the dark times. My Wh who is so concerned with his relationship with our DD never called her at all yesterday or today so far. Didn't even call DS to say goodnight or goodmorning. Oh but wait this is his weekend to be free.

I had given my WH some homemeade beefstew the other night... still no thank-you. But that's one of my EN and he wasn't filling them before.

I think you're right we all want to see this work for you.. the first reason that we know how much this means to you. And for the one's that are getting prepared for plan B it give us some hope cause maybe it will happen to us also.

I'd be interested in knowing if others felt going into Plan B that it wasn't going to work on thier WS because I also feel that way. It's what my WH wants.

Enough about me sorry for the TJ... just wanted you to know I will continue to pray for you. And I'm pulling for you.

Go start that snowblower... you bada$$ <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Ps We got ablout a foot yesterday too.

Still

LilSis,

Long time reader, not much posting to you. Have faith that Plan B will guide you. You will have solace, time to heal, restore your soul, find yourself again. You have GIVEN so much that you need this time to restore. It's amazing how much we forget ourselves, and Plan B gives you the time to enjoy yourself again. To have HAPPINESS again.

Plan B also gave me resolve, that I wanted my M, my HUSBAND, but I was unwilling to take in a wayward/cake-eating spouse. Don't get me wrong, even when they do come home, before leaving the fog behind and completing withdrawal, they are every bit a wayward. The differnce is, you have BOUNDARIES and you are UNAFRAID to enforce them. It's freeing to KNOW what you want.

Be dark, make solid arrangements for the hand-off of children. It will be hard, initially. I would remind myself of what I was presented with when my WH did speak to me, in Plan A. He was cold, withdrawn, cruel. I could do WITHOUT that.

The strength that you have exhibited in Plan A can carry you nicely into Plan B. Keep it up! Use that strength to heal and learn.

Plan B WORKS, no matter the outcome. I know people don't like to hear that, but it is TRUE. If you feel weak (which you will) come here, call friends, distract yourself. You WILL imagine that your WH is sooooo happy; he is not. You HAVE been filling some of his EN's, supporting him; that will be gone. No more fantasy island for him.

You are in my thoughts...

Not "everyone". Yes, those whose spouses are in active A's would fit that description. But many of us, whose M's are already in varying stages of R are saying this, because we have seen the power (lol) of Plan B to work even in very difficult cases.

For some reason it also clears the way so God can eventually speak to the WS more clearly, calling them back. Most listen after a while.


True, but not to worry your perfectionist parts about it. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> This is not just a perfect/imperfect question, it is not possible for you to see the forest right now. You just can't do it. Soon you will, but that only comes with time, and not just "being better".

I'll be thinking of you AND praying for you today.

You indeed are a deeply loved child of God.

I know the following is quite long, but I want to share with you a precious children's story, for children of all ages, that goes perfectly along with knowing we are deeply loved children of God. I hope it will touch you today.

It is called A Parable About the King...written by Beth Moore...

Once upon a time a young princess became angry with her father, the King. The King had required her obedience to clean her room, but she had countless servants. Why should she pick up after herself?

"I know what I'll do," the princess said to herself. "I’ll teach everyone a lesson. I’ll run away from home and leave my room messed up just like this.”

She searched through her dresser drawers for old clothing, pitching what she did not want on the floor. Finding the clothing she wanted to dress up in, she disguised herself as one of the village peasant girls. Then she quietly slipped out of the castle’s secret door.

The princess knew her father, the King, would not discover her missing for several hours because he was attending to important business.

Walking a short distance, the princess soon found herself in a neighborhood lined with markets and merchants.

On a narrow backstreet she met a group of children playing stickball. She thought to herself, “They are having much more fun than I ever have. I’m tired of being a princess. I shall be like them.”

It wasn’t long before the children asked her to play stickball with them. She was so happy. The princess quickly caught on to their game.

She elbowed whoever got in her way…just like them. She cursed when she missed the ball…just like them. And when she fell, plop, she fell straight into the mud…just like them.

Suddenly a young girl appeared at the corner of the street. She called to the children, “Come, hurry, something really big is happening on Main Street.”

Sticks flew into the air and the children ran toward Main Street. The princess was quite proud of herself for she could run very fast…just like them.

When the children reached Main Street, they reached a crowd of people who were oohing and ahhing over something. The children shoved and pushed their way through the crowd only to meet the stares of the finely dressed men and women standing at the front of the group.

“Go away, you filthy children,” one woman said. Incensed the princess said, “I am no filthy child. I am a prin…”

Her words trailed off. Looking at the children standing around her, she thought to herself, “Iused to be a princess. Now I’m just like them!”

With new resolve she began to elbow her way through the crowd again, purposely getting mud on the hems of the fine dresses and skirts.

“It’s no use,” one of the boys finally said, “We can’t get to the front of this crowd. Hurry, let’s go climb that tree over there.” The children hurried to the tree and just like monkeys scurried up to perch on the branches. All the children managed to climb the tree, except for the princess.

Trailing behind them she reassured herself, “I can climb this tree…I can because I’m just like them.”

As she pulled her way to the second branch, a small limb caught the threads of her skirt and threw her off balance. Not being able to catch herself, she tumbled out of the tree and fell to the ground with a thump.

The adults turned around and peered at her with disgust. The children in the tree laughed and yelled at her, “Get up here, quick. It’s coming, it’s coming.”

She didn’t know what was coming, nor did she care at this particular moment. Humiliated and bruised from the fall, she wanted to cry. But she was like them and they certainly wouldn’t cry. So, she cursed instead.

Determined, the princess finally made her way up the tree and settled insecurely on a lower branch. “What are we looking for anyway?” she asked.

“It’s the King,” Yelled the other kids. “Don’t you know a King when you see one,” they sneered at her. She slowly pulled herself up to the next branch and stretched to see the King.

An envoy of dignitaries stood beside a lavish coach. When the door opened, out stepped the King. So tall. So dignified. So royal!

“Hail, His Majesty the King,” an aide announced. The crowd responded, “Long live the King.” The dignitaries dropped to one knee. The crowd bowed before him. Only the King was left standing.

Then one of the boys in the tree whispered to the group, “Hey, we have a perfect shot from here. Let’s throw our best spitballs right in his face.”

Horror struck the princess’ heart. “You can’t do that,” she pleaded. “Why not?” the boys demanded. “Because he’s the King,” she said. “So, what. Big deal,” they said as they began to throw spitballs at the King.

“Stop,” the princess cried. “Stop please. That’s my father.” The tears she had so valiantly held back earlier now spilled down her cheeks. “Sure, and my dad is Abraham,” they mocked her.

“No, I mean it. It’s true. The King is my father,” she pleaded. But the children just laughed harder. “Look at you. You’re just like us,” they sneered. “You don’t have a father.”

The princess looked at her father just in time to see him wipe something from his face. He looked up into the tree as the children yelled and cursed at him.

Indescribable shame filled her heart. She was sure her father had seen her. But maybe, just maybe, he hadn’t recognized her.

The princess jumped out of the tree and began to run. As she did, the children started to throw their spitballs at her. The princess began to run back toward the palace. She ran and ran, sobbing every step of the way.

Stopping to catch her breath the princess suddenly became aware of her stinging elbows and knees. She was skinned and bleeding from the fall and she began to cry even harder. Her heart sank and she felt alone and very frightened.

Making her way slowly back to the palace she discovered, to her horror, that the secret door was now locked. She ran to the next door, but it was locked too. As was the next and the next door.

“Oh, no!” she cried, “I am locked out and have no place to go. The palace is no longer my home.”

The princess knew that only the front door remained--unlocked. “I can’t possibly use the front door,” she thought, “everyone will know how foolish I have been. Everyone will look at me…and I look just like them.”

So she waited and waited, trying desperately to think of some way to get out of this terrible mess. Finally, too sore and too hungry to think any longer, she gave in and headed for the front door.

With torn clothes, filthy hands, and a tear-streaked face, she lifted her hand and knocked once, slowly, timidly. Before she could muster the courage to knock again the door cracked open.

Hanging her head in shame, she could see only his feet. But she knew instantly that they were his feet. It was him. Her dad. Her father. The King.

She fell at his feet and cried, “I’m sorry Daddy. I am so ashamed of what I have done.”

Gently, the King knelt down beside her and pulled her into his strong, comforting arms. “Come here, my child, my princess,” he said.

“But I’m not a princess any more…I’m just like them,” she sobbed.

“Ah, my child,” he said. “You may have acted like them, but you are not one of them. You are mine, and you will never be happy until you accept both the privilege and responsibility that goes with belonging to me.”

That night, after he had dressed her wounds, he tucked her into her soft bed and kissed her goodnight. He had even helped her to clean the mess she had left in her room. As she settled into the soft quilts, she thought about how much she liked being a princess, the daughter of a King.

As the King walked out of the room, the dim night light softly illuminated his royal robe, which was now smudged with dirt. Tears filled the princess’ eyes, “Look what I’ve done to the King’s robe. Never again, she whispered, apologizing to the King.

Sensing her broken heart, the King turned and spoke softly, “Yes, my child, there will be other times, but I will open the door every time you knock and I will always love you…ever, again.”

And this story has no end.

I'm printing this off... that was beautiful. It msde me cry.

Thank-you for printing that story.

Still

How's the bad A$$ snow-blower doing?
still snowing there?

I haven't read all the recent posts yet...out snow-blowing and then taking a shower so I look nice (post snow-blowing ain't a purty sight)

I am nervous. WH is coming in about a half hour/20 minutes to pick up the boys.

I have the letter printed off and in an envelope. I talked to Lisa this morning so she's all up to speed. I inscribed the book (it is about back roads and scenic byways) with the following:

To my husband, who taught me that the most worthwhile places are the most difficult to get to. Love always, me

AM I FORGETTING ANYTHING? I am so nervous that I feel like I am...

No school calendar with the letter...?? Yes callendar with the letter?

LilSIS,

Love the inscription and the double meaning. He probably won't get it now but he will someday.

Still

No calender.

Love the inscription too.

Lifting you up in prayer.

~ Marsh

SIGNED SEALED DELIVERED

GULP...only my mouth is so dry I can't.

I did hug him, looked him square in the eye and said ILY. But no big smile. It would have been very disingenuous, seeing as how I was shaking and all.

Hang on. The stretch begins. I'm scared.

eta: skipped the calendar

What are you going to say to him if he says something like "I don't want another letter," thinking that it is going to be another letter along the same lines as what you gave him last time? I'm just afraid he might have such a reaction, and I hope you have a plan about how to deal with that. I mean, is there something you can say to impress upon him the importance and finality of this letter so he will read it asap?

I mentioned the letter twice, and he saw it (it was tucked in the book, in an envelope)

As I hugged him, I said in his ear...there's a letter. And I made a point of saying something like, I got this for you for your trip (the book). He'll read the letter, eventually. No matter how wayward...who can NOT read a letter?? I guess I'm just nosy and curious that way....it would get the best of me.

Still trying to gulp....

LS:

HUGS, HUGS, HUGS!

LG

Yay!! Good for you, LilSis!! Sounds like it was a nice parting.

Goodmorning LS. Just wanted to say I BELIEVE!!!!!

You will be in my thoughts and prayers. Even my FWH has started asking about you everyday. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />



Just wanted to answer your TJ.

This is the reason I was terrified to go to Plan B. I'm sure most of us felt this way. My kids were getting ready to leave for 6 weeks, so FWH would have all the freedom in the world to spend those 6 weeks with OW, uninterrupted. I thought for sure he would take them, never in a million years thought it would only take him a week of plan B before he wanted to come home. I had it built up in my mind that he probably atleast spent every waking moment of that week with OW, but I just recently found out that he didn't. He saw her very little, two times in fact.

Sometimes, what we imagine is far worse than reality.

I also thought, like LS's MIL, that FWH would see this as me giving up, abandoning him. He didn't. Have faith in yourself, your plan, and your M. BELIEVE.

Way to go, you bad a$$!

Now go do something fantastical for yourself.

~ Marsh

Just prayed for you LilSis. I believe God will give you strength.

Have you had a chance to talk to MIL yet, or plan how you are going to deal w/communication with her? It would be kind of interesting if he called her asking her what she knew about it and she could truthfully say, "nothing." That would actually would work in your favor (I think that would throw WH even more...make you appear even more "dark" to him), but I know you don't want her to be blindsided w/it.

Lilsis... I am praying for you and your children. You all deserve so much more than this.

{{{LILSIS}}}

You know what...this is beside the point, but...he actually gave ME a hug this time! I hugged him first, then pulled back to look him square in the eyes, one last time...and as he was leaving he initiated another hug.

I was proud of myself for having the driveway totally clear of snow when he came to get the boys (not quite straight, but clear). I hope he asks and DS8 tells him the I did it MYSELF...not my neighbor, who has the monster snow blower.

Okay...what to do with my day now. I am going to the hardware store to buy some grout to finish my craft project (I mosaic-ed a vase with pieces of glass, giving it to MIL as a belated b-day present). Maybe go to Panera for a bagel and coffee for lunch. I'm going to look up some info for Lisa and I to visit the spa together (my gift of appreciation). I suppose I should clean my house, too. Dinner tonight with my neighbor.

Sounds like a plan. I'm okay. I'm okay.

I still haven't figured out how to bounce back emails. The drop-down menu doesn't show any choices....I gotta work on that, too.

Can someone post instructions for LS on how to do the email bounceback? What email program are you using?

Quick reply and then off to do something fantastical! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

No, haven't spoken to her. I do not think she would be blindsided...she knows that I was considering going dark...and since she has been relatively out of touch while they are on the road, I do not believed she would be terribly surprised.

WH probably won't be able to reach them either.

LS,

Here's how you block the email.

http://email.about.com/od/macosxmailtips/qt/et051901.htm

If you have the self control not to read them, you can bounce it back manually. Go under the "Message" menu in your email program and choose "Bounce." Then, he'll see that you're not accepting the emails, because they'll come back to him. If you just block, I think your email program will just automatically delete it and he won't see the block. Not sure, though.

We're all pulling for you. Stay dark. And take care of yourself.

Bouquets!


U did your highest brightest gracious best with the information, knowledge, CAPACITY, and best of intentions at this time.



U raised the bench mark of standards.



Hope you can call it day...



Keep it simple... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Thanks everyone. My neighbor called so I didn't get out of here.

RE: email

For some reason the drop down menu in T-bird's message filter doesn't allow me to select "reply with template."

So my fix is to set the filter to forward any email from him right BACK to him and also delete it. He won't know that it's deleted, but he might figure out that something weird is going on if something is forwarded right back immediately.

I suppose it will still be in deleted items....grrr....

Off to the store

((( Lil Sis and her darling sons )))

YOU are an inspiration to so many !!!

I feel very honored to even *know* you just a little.

Now remember, when it gets pretty yucky -- close eyes and give it to God... He is listening...and will take some of the burden off your shoulders

Next time you want to kick back and watch a movie -- (not sure if this is for 8 yr olds) pick

Little Miss Sunshine


Sending thousands of hugs ~ carnation

IAD,

Thanks for answering my question on the TJ. It makes me feel slightly hopeful. I do think it will take my WH a little longer if he ever is affected.

Still

PS LilSis,

I'm so proud of you... we believe this is for the best.

"I suppose it will still be in deleted items....grrr...."

in the filter set it so it does not download it from the server.

hey sis

after telling me for so long to let him go and showing his displeasure at any attempts i made to contact him,

for weeks, beginning on the day i gave my H the plan B letter, he called and called me. he left all kinds of messages.

and the e-mails started......

even a driveby where he then called and said he almost stopped but "knew i wouldn't want to see him"...now THAT was a shock

it seemed the MORE i DIDN'T respond, the harder he tried to make sure he hadn't lost that connection with me....almost like "i" became the new challenge instead of OW

i was sooooo excited because it seemed that HE was realizing his mistake and that he was afraid of losing me

he left me so many messages....BUT none saying what they needed to....that he was willing to choose ME over the OW and end all contact forever

just wanted to give you a heads up of what i've experienced because i know many others who have said the same things

sometimes though......they DO make the right choice soon after plan B starts because they are SCARED of losing YOU once they realize how much you were meeting needs they didn't even know they had

they CAN'T realize this until YOU allow the OW to have the opportunity to try to meet ALL of his needs

THIS is what you did today!

hang in there sis.........this was a hard thing but it may be the only thing that makes a difference in your situation

if you keep doing the same thing....you keep getting the same results...
BUT you have now done something DIFFERENT!

everyone is here for you!

So, you are using Mozilla Thunderbird? Does anyone have experience with that email client? If so, please help w/step-by-step instructions.

Go to message tab.
Create filter from message
go to lower box(perform these actions)
set to forward back to him
click on + box
set to delete from pop server
click okay
done

he will get it forwarded back to him... you will never see it.

That's what I had done, MEDC, except I didn't delete from POP server (since I don't know what that means...) so I'll fix that.

Thanks!

What if he wants to send you kids photos like he has in the past? Can he send those to your intermediary?

I guess not. No contact means no contact. If he takes pictures of the kids, those pictures are his. I take my own pictures of the kids.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

He doesn't get to share pics of the kids...

He needs a good hard look at what life without LilSis is like...

The little things like shared love and pride of children must NOT be available to him...

Okay, that's kinda what I thought...I just wonder if he'll try and pull that one on you (guilt trip ... the boys want to see the photos ... etc.) just thinking ahead. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> I guess it's hard to anticipate all the sorts of things a WS will try to break NC in plan B.

Thinking of you this morning...

Have courage and believe!

Blessings,
Glad

LilSis,

I'm thinking of you this morning also... hoping day 1 of Plan B went well. Did you get any response from WH? I know I know that's not what Plan B is about.

Getting ready to wake my kids up to go out for breakfast and then to church. You'll be in my prayers this morning.

Still

Morning everyone...
Thank you for your prayers. No...no response at all from WH, but he has the kids so hopefully he is occupied with them. He's likely just rejoicing a breathing a huge sigh of relief, eagerly sharing with RT the happy news of my "giving up" and "setting him free." We'll see tonight when he drops them off if he abides by my terms of not coming in the house.

I'm sure he will. (assuming he read the letter) I will be upstairs, out of sight.

I keep swinging between the two extremes:
***I did exactly what I needed to do and this is the only way that WH will ever face reality and see the light.
***I just made a huge mistake and have just driven him right into RT's arms where he will stay forever and ever.

I suppose the truth is somewhere in the middle. It IS what I needed to do for me to keep my sanity. It WILL drive him right into RT's arms. The question is WH's response to that: will he see the light or will he stay in her arms forever and ever?

I would feel much more confident if I had done a Plan A from the start. I spent four months being so yucky to him, I just don't feel like a couple of months of a good Plan A could erase all of that.

(Hmmm...now that I write that...maybe that's a bit of what WH is experiencing?? "I was so yucky to LS that there's no way she could ever see past that.")

I was filled with such anger, hurt and pain that I had no idea how to manage the enormity of those unfamilar emotions. And the MC that WH and I saw on d-day +1 (previously scheduled because I was so fed up with the distance) said that the only way to recover was for WH to "HOLD MY PAIN."

That was my ticket to dump all over him.

It's in the past and I guess I have to forgive myself for it because nothing's going to change what I've done. All I can do is take care of today...this moment.

I've got a house to clean and laundry to do. I'm skipping church and instead will listen to last week's sermon on podcast.

An aside:

I've been skipping church lately because I always end up in some interaction with BIL and SIL. SIL is the one who is so vehemently anti-WH and totally in the curb-kicking camp. The two of them never got along...even when BIL and SIL were just dating (and they've been married 13 years). So I think there's this element of "told you so" on SIL's part regarding WH. But it just makes me feel bad...this guy is my husband and I love him...I feel like telling her to shaddup.

But she's been so good to me....

So I just avoid her so I don't have to take either side. I just wish she'd accept me for who I am and where I am, and not judge.

This whole experience has REALLY opened my eyes to that tendancy in people...to be unaccepting of others or to not be respectful of others in the face of disagreement, disappointment, or "wishing" they'd do things as you would. It is SO much out of caring and compassion, I know, but it ends up driving a wedge between people instead of drawing them closer.

Again, I read what I just wrote and see how that could apply to WH.

silentlucidity had a wonderful post yesterday? day before? that related to this...just being respectful of where her WH/FWH is. Not pushing, not pulling. Just being who she is, knowing her boundary. Allowing him to choose.

Anyway...off on a tangent I go...I forgot to mention this:

Folks have mentioned it in the past and I've not acknowledged it... I DID speak to DS11 yesterday about what I was doing. He knows that I have been trying, trying, trying to bring our family together, trying to reach out to dad and let him know how much I love him and want him to come home...and DS11 has told me that he wants me to do this.

So it was hard to tell him this. I explained that it is just becoming too painful for me to be sweet to dad while he remains so uncaring. I even told him that I had seen dad's truck over at the coffee shop on Friday AM (just so you know...DS11 knows everything...RT was his friend's mom remember) and that was the last straw for me...showed me how insensitive to my feelings dad is right now.

I told him that I still loved dad with all my heart, and I still wish more than anything for our family to be together, but right now dad doesn't want that, and it is so hurtful for me to see him and know that is true. Every time is like a stab in the heart. So I need to not see dad or talk to him anymore.

I asked DS11 how he felt about that and he said he was disappointed, but he understood. I could see in his eyes...I let him down. He wanted me to keep trying.

God...please forgive me for that...it breaks my heart to be the cause of MORE disappointment in this boy's life.

I'll have a talk with DS8, too, but he will need it stated in different terms.

Anyway...that was hard.

Sis,

YOU did NOT let DS11 down, WS DID! ALL of this is due to WS actions!

I know the pain that goes through your soul when you look in your child's eyes and see the hurt of having your family torn apart. You would give your life to take away that pain.

Your actions now ARE doing the only thing you can to make the BEST possible life for DS11, DS8 and LilSis. No matter what WS does, YOU are doing what is RIGHT and what is BEST for your family.

You know it, God knows it, all of us here know it, and maybe someday WS will know it as well.


My kids are my undoing, too. Anytime I feel like I am letting them down, I fall apart. I do a pretty good job of withstanding the horrible painful things WS says and does. But just one tiny disappointment with regards to my kids slays me for days.

STAND firm in knowing you are doing the absolute BEST you can for them. As you said, you can now use your energies to focus on you and on them!

I am so glad to read and "hear" more of the more confident and peaceful LilSis in your posts. You have done an outstanding job thru all of this. Your actions and efforts have been AMAZING!!

Hang in there and God Bless!

Lilsis... my son is 11 too. Trust me... he will understand what you are doing. Right now his response is emotional...he KNOWS you are fighting the good fight even if he can't express it right now. Trust me on this one... I speak from experience.

Praying for you today.

MEDC

Just want to say good luck and keep the faith. I have an 11 yo son too. They get it. There is enough on television these days for them to understand. My son also knew OW as she worked for H.

Regarding going to mass...I had to discontinue as I would be crying for the entire hour and my son had to hold my hand or some other coping mechanism. We sat way in the back corner in order to hide my breakdowns. Finally, we just went to the church in the afternoon on Sundays to quietly pray on our own. It was extremely helpful to be able to speak to God in my own way without any distractions and the tears could fall. We were still keeping holy the lords day, just doing it differently. We still do this now...except when he is alter server.

Praying for you today.

cc1: I actually stopped going to Mass for another reason...it reminded me too much of my dad. He and I used to go together every Saturday night, all through HS and college, until I moved out of town. After he died I would sit there and weep, all I could do was miss him.

So lately I've been going to a Christian Reformed church with a service that is VERY similar to Mass, but just different enought that I'm able to feel peace...not pain. It is BIL/SIL's church. WH and I never went there together, but apparently WH went with his dad one Sunday (post d-day), and said to his dad, "I wish LS and I had come here."

The second time I went to the CRC church, the sermon was on David and Bathsheeba. Can you imagine!! I was sobbing...racking sobs. Poor DS11 and DS8 were so worried, hugging me and patting me and asking if I was okay. BIL and SIL had tears in their eyes as well. It was only a month after d-day....everything was so fresh.

I love your idea of going to the church and praying quietly on my own. If I cry, then at least I don't have to hide it, and I could tell the DS's that it's fine if I cry and not to worry.

I've been reading a lot of spiritual books, too, so I feel like I am doing that WORK...deepening my relationship with God...even if I am not doing it within a church community right now. Sometimes just being outside, marveling at and rejoicing in God's creation is helpful, too.

Thank goodness you're in Plan B!

I stayed away and didn't read for a bit, and when I did come back I saw how your love bank for your husband was very low, compared to before my break.

Now I return again and I'm happy to see you're protecting the love that's left from being depleted entirely.

Here's a tip about Plan B. Almost everyone asks at one time or another whether or not certain interaction with the WS is okay when in Plan B.

I always say "If you're meeting their needs, then don't do it"

Remember, one of the purposes of Plan B is to withdraw all need meeting thereby allowing sleazy RT to fail at trying to fill that void, which she WILL.

Always praying for you, Sis.
Jo

p.s. You can try and polish a turd till your arms fall off, but its still a turd.

AMEN!!!

Not feeling so well today...hope I'm not coming down with something. I have vertigo...any suggestions? I took a motion sickness tablet...??

No worries about breaking Plan B for today. I'll probably need those reminders, though. But for the most part, I think I'll be a pretty good Plan Ber (short term). I want away from this drama so badly. Once the school week gets started tomorrow, back into the routine, I'll be in pretty good shape. WH only has the boys on Weds., then he leaves on Monday for Phoenix. So I won't even have to work at it then.

Long term Plan Ber...probably not so good.

I just had this image of WH showing up at conferences (say he calls the school and pleads ignorance of conference times and charms the info out of the secretary).

I know this is getting WAAAAY ahead of myself (the conf. are on Weds.)...but if that happens do I turn around and walk out or do I attend the conference as if he is not there, and do not speak to him after or before?

Also...WH NEVER calls to chat with the boys. Never. But he may want to while he's in Phoenix or en route, or at some point he might decide that his sons actually deserve to know that their dad cares and maybe he sould occassionally touch base with them. So how do Plan Bers handle phone calls to the kids?

One last thing:

Since it always seems to help to put these thoughts out there instead of letting them roll around in my brain...here's one that came to me earlier:

I had another image...of WH and RT laughing over my heart-felt, soul-baring, wrenching PBL...ba-ha-ha-ing. "Who does she think she IS? Setting terms for RECONCILIATION? HA!!! What a JOKE. Doesn't she know this is the answer to our PRAYERS?? She TRULY is crazy."

Popping the champagne corks.

Why do I care? Their evilness should not bother me. I am a beloved child of God, wrapped in his loving embrace always.

It is evilness, isn't it?

YES, ABSOLUTELY!!

And..given RT's nature and style, I doubt that he shows her the PLAN B LETTER...and if he does, SO WHAT? She should feel threatened by its contents. You did not just GIVE UP. You provided a ROAD MAP back home to you.

Thanks, mimi. I'm going out for a walk down to the river. It is a beautiful bright sunny day...balmy 29 degrees! Maybe it will clear my head. The outdoors always makes things seem more hopeful...gives me perspective.

LilSis, get a phone for your boys so that they can contact their dad when they want and he can call them when he wants, leaving you out of it.

It worked well for me.

Lilsis-

I get vertigo too and find that it sometimes lets me know when I'm getting a cold before any other symptoms hit me. I usually take a half dose of a non-drying sinus pill and that helps with the dizziness. Ask a pharmacist. They tend to know about over the counter medicines as well.

Hope this helps.

Hang in there-you're doing great. And don't dwell on possible scenerios, it doesn't help. Pop a new thought into your head-a great memory with your kids-or do what my DS-14 does when he is frustrated-he watches Monty Python and the Holy Grail or a variety of Mel Brooks movies.

LilSis,

Even if your WH and RT did laugh over it.... there is no way it won't seep into your WH heart. And I betcha it's going to make RT a little nervous.

If you have to think about them reading the letter together maybe try thinking of you WH face dropping because no more LilSis. And RT seeing his expression of concern.

And the week he is away he won't be with her. And she will be wondering if he is thinking about the beautiful letter LiLSis wrote WH. Not some nasty TM or e-mail that they were sending back and forth. But a heartfelt letter of love of the history that only the two of you shared. You can bet if she sees that letter it's going to haunt her.

I hope your walk helps...

Still

I did my old three-mile loop. There was hardly anyone else out...can't believe it! It was windier than I had expected, though...I forgot to check the wind chill so it actually felt like 14, not the balmy 29.

It was so peaceful...beside the still waters...restoreth my soul.

The snow was ankle deep most places; knee deep in others, so it was a good workout.

I'll check into a cheap-o pay as you go phone for the boys. It may not even be a problem...we'll see.

johnstwin you are the second person to recommend Monty Python to me. Non-drying sinus...is that benadryl or Sudafed?

still, I am going to send a copy of my PBL to MIL. I left a message on their cell earlier today asking her to call...I don't know if they are retrieving cell messages or not since they are visiting FIL's sister. Anyway, she will have a copy just in case she needs to reference it or know what the terms are while WH is there.

I'm going to make myself a warm carnation instant breakfast (got hooked on that stuff during my infidelity diet) and make some granola for the week. Yum. Still didn't get my kitchen cleaned. grrrr...

Happy Sunday, Lil Sis.

I never knew how many vibes were out in the world til I decided to pray for you when I see one. My MIL totalled her car last weekend. I spent yesterday car shopping with and for her. You were prayed for so many times yesterday <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

This morning, there were 2 of them in the parking lot near me at church- 2 more quick prayers.

I believe the non drying sinus is a decongestant - not an antihistimine.

As for the phone, depending on your plan you may be able to add a line for abotu 10 dollars and share the minutes. If you and ws are on the same plan it would just be adding one more line. This would be good so that you can talk to the boys when he has them without going through him.

It would be hard for me not to ask the kids how dad is doing, what did you do, etc. You'll have to refrain from that, too. Of course you don't want to squelch them telling you about things about THEM, just don't encourage them to give you info on him.

I am sending you a few more scriptures to read.

God Has A Positive Answer
For all the negative things we have to say to ourselves, God has a positive answer for it.
You say: "It's impossible"
God says: "All things are possible" (Luke 18:27)
You say: "I'm too tired"
God says: "I will give you rest" (Matthew 11:28-30)
You say: "Nobody really loves me"
God says: "I love you" (John 3:16 & John 13:34)
You say: "I can't go on"
God says: "My grace is sufficient" (II Corinthians 12:9)
You say: "I can't figure things out"
God says: "I will direct your steps" (Proverbs 3:5-6)
You say: "I can't do it"
God says: "You can do all things" (Philippians 4:13)
You say: "I'm not able"
God says: "I am able" (II Corinthians 9:8)
You say: "It's not worth it"
God says: "It will be worth it" (Roman 8:28)
You say: "I can't forgive myself"
God says: "I FORGIVE YOU" (I John 1:9 & Romans 8:1)
You say: "I can't manage"
God says: "I will supply all your needs" (Philippians 4:19)
You say: "I'm afraid"
God says: "I have not given you a spirit of fear" (II Timothy1:7)
You say: "I'm always worried and frustrated"
God says: "Cast all your cares on ME" (I Peter 5:7)
You say: "I don't have enough faith"
God says: "I've given everyone a measure of faith" (Romans 12:3)
You say: "I'm not smart enough"
God says: "I give you wisdom" (I Corinthians 1:30)
You say: "I feel all alone"
God says: "I will never leave you or forsake you" (Hebrews 13:5)

hope your day is blessed

sis

did you read my post about what you might expect when your WS reads your letter?

LS - excuse the tangent - but please tell me how you dress & what kind of boots you wear to be able to walk in those conditions and not freeze to death!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I have been excusing myself from exercise a lot due to the weather, but haven't had to deal with anything quite that drastic!!!

MF: I know...Vibes are popular! Mine's silver w/ black trim if that makes it easier for you...don't want you to get into an accident what with all the praying at every Vibe! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I love love love your post. Another one to print out and keep by my bedside. Thank you so much.

eav: I did read your "what to expect." So is it a good thing or a bad thing that WH has tried nothing to get me to break Plan B (which is all of 27 hours old <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> ) I'm really trying not to interpret anything and just let God do his wonderful work...for both me and WH. On the other hand... I've been on here how many times today?...filling everyone in on my every move...a way to cope with anxiety maybe? (((eav))) You are such a blessing.

ff: It was sunny! We so rarely get a sunny day that I had to go out and take it all in. I have a great pair of Columbia boots...other than that just my winter coat, gloves and a HAT (most important!)....??? And I know from experience how much I will warm up with the activity. If I were with the kids (slooowww!) I would have been cold. On my own, I hoof it. No biggie. It's Michigan.

just trying to give you a heads up on what may happen so you're not caught off guard

i've seen many plan B's end with the WS returning within months

and then there's mine.....

Well....WH dropped the boys off shortly after 6 (time I set in the PBL). I was upstairs reading. I saw them pull in and he pulled out a minute later.

DS11 told me that dad said that when he goes to Phoenix, he may want to leave his cat with us.

He may want to, but he's not going to....

WH can leave his cat with the same a-hole who takes care of the dog. The guy who left his wife and kids to marry the OW, the guy who was grabbing RT's a$$ (and vice-versa) in a picture taken by WH at a t-ball game, the guy whom WH and RT sought advice from right after I drove away, sobbing uncontrollably, with his children in the car to drive an hour to my mom's....

Yeah...the cat can stay with that guy, apparently WH's new best friend and mentor.

Oh...I also found out that's where WH is keeping the mini-van...at this guy's house. (for months he wouldn't tell me where it was)

Sorry for the language. I do not like this guy, Can you tell??

ETA: Or he could leave the cat with RT! OOOhhhh, nooo, wait. That won't work. RT HATES cats.

This might be a good time to bring your intermediary into the picture. He should not be using your boys to carry messages, period.

Hi Lilsis-

Sudafed capsules are what I use. I start with just half a dose (one pill) and it seems to dry up the fluid that triggers the vertigo.

Monty Python is great fun-but I spent my teen years listening to my twin brother repeat all the lines from the movie and the TV show (he would even break into the walk from the Society of Idiotic Walks downtown) so I don't watch those as much.

I'll pop in British Comedies like Absolutely Fabulous or movies like Saving Grace and Swing when I need distraction. My youngest son seems to share my twin brother's sense of humor and leans towards Monty Python but we all love Mel Brooks whether it's Blazing Saddles or Young Frankenstein or Spaceballs.

The goal is to giggle. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Hope you have a great evening.

Tiny threadjack:

that was "Silly Walks".....Good to see that there are other Monty Python fans around.....

I don't think WH was sending the message through the boys, from the way DS11 said it, I think it was just mentioned as a possibility and DS11 took it upon himself to "share." I didn't respond to DS11 in any way...affirmative or negative, so he has nothing to "bring back" on Weds. when they see him next.

Not when my brother and his friends did them....<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
(I always did get that title wrong).

I loved their spam bit and the lumberjack song.

Okay-that's enough TJ

Sis,

What are your plans for YOURSELF while in Plan B?

Jo

Lilsis, for the vertigo follow the instructions:
,
http://www.mayoclinic.org/balance/canalith.html

It was done for a friend in the emergency room to the tune of big bucks....my H had a severe case last night...it worked perfectly. Give yourself 30 seconds in each position and it should relieve your symptoms. KB

Plans for me....hmmmm....

Good question. Right now I feel like it's going to be one day at a time.

I don't know. It is starting up on the really busy time of year at work, which wil continue until May.

But I need something new for me, don't I? I signed up for that pilates class and only went to one (that was a waste) because it ended up for something like four weeks in a row I had something going on...kids concert, a meeting for work, etc.

It's hard with the kids...they are not quite old enough to say by themselves. One more year....

I DO feel like right now it's much more short term...tomorrow night I have a meeting, Weds. night I have my support group, this weekend I will go visit my mom.

Yoga? Pilates? I sooo uncoordinated. I would need to be in a group with other uncoordinated people or I would feel like a total loser.

KB: thanks...I bookmarked that site. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

good morning.

i love pilates and yoga.
yoga helps my mind better....have you ever taken a yoga class?
if not, try one.
(i need to take my own advice...it's been awhile for me <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />)

I can't help but to wonder if WH read and comprehended the letter. Something tells me he didn't and he will try to reach you and act completely dumbfounded. stay strong.

morning, nia

Could be he didn't read it...but he did drop the boys off promptly at 6:00 and didn't attempt to come in (no surprise there) or stall at all...dropped them off and left. ???

I know it's too early to make any assumptions. Especially when he had the boys all weekend...no reality hits when he's got the boys.

But I keep thinking back to this summer...he never seemed to mind when I wouldn't speak to him or see him then. Why should it be any different now?

I also have this fear that his parents will not hold their boundary and require that he be out of the house when they return. I asked MIL last week if she knew what WH's plans were, and she said she didn't think he had any....

I am so afraid that they will cave, which would be disasterous.

I can see WH crying to them about how he can't AFFORD to move....boo hoo. There's an order to protect me financially, so they can no longer use that as their excuse for allowing him to live there.

I am going to have a VERY serious talk with MIL about this boundary. They simply CANNOT enable him any longer....

I will BEG them to enforce this boundary.

I never went to Plan B -- but it's my understanding from Dr. H and the books that Plan B means letting go of all of that -- what he does, where he lives, etc. You must put this AND him out of your mind, and focus on taking care of yourself. Trying to keep track of all of that and trying to control him or what he does from a distance is NOT Plan B. It will make you crazy. Someone else who's actually done a successful Plan B can further guide you, but you must get this, or Plan B will only cause you further pain!

Take care --
Shellybid

sounds right to me, LS.
how can you put an end to ILs enabling him?.....it's out of your hands.

so....he stays at ILs awhile longer....that shouldn't interfere w/ your plan B.
Plan B is about taking control of your own sanity.

nicely put

lilsis...I am trying to read up on your sitch, but I am fresh into plan B about 1 mos..and this is very true...it takes a while to get the hang of it, but I cheated the 1st few weeks...I had no phone contact or face to face, but I got updates from everyone I knew about how WS was doing, and what WS was doing... now I understand better...now I have few details. shellybird is right. you have got to remove WS from your daily life. where he lives is no longer your concern. YOU are your concern. (I am certainly NOT a plan B pro, but this is the theory, and what I have been taught) I am still working on making it darker.

plan B is removing WS as a consideration in your life, as much as possible with having kids. JMHO.

Not that it matters, but much of my thinking about Plan B has been with the assumption that they will be kicking him to the curb, where he rightly belongs.

Attempting to inluence my ILs about his living arrangments is something I need to do for me. I have to say something...for the sake of my relationship with them. I want them to understand how important it is to me that they not enable him any longer. For them to continue to support him by giving him a place to live while he carries on publicly with RT is unconscionable IMO, and will threaten my trust in them and ability to relate to them in a meaningful way.

If *I* am able to set a clear boundary with WH, then THEY should be able to as well.

What they do with that is up to them.

I guess in a way it is setting a boundary with them...I do not want to go this far...but in a way what I'm saying is...I cannot have the same kind of relationship with you that I dearly want to have if you continue to behave in a way that enables your son to destroy my family.

Does that make any sense???

I do feel like my relationship with MIL and FIL will be severely strained if they continue to support him in that way. I will not be able to visit them, spend time at their house, etc....because WH will be there.

So the strain will not only be emotional, but logistical as well.

Of course this is all speculation...perhaps they DO plan to stick to the deal...but clearly from MILs comments last week they are not making SURE that he will abide by their expectation.

It just worries me.

And I know Plan B is supposed to be about me, and I don't think I will break the contact thing, but I sure would like to know if I can trust my ILs to be there for me, to understand where I am coming from and respect that.

If I can't count on that relationship and support during this time, it will be even harder...it really, really will.

Is it unfair for me to place that burden on them?????

I think it makes sense. And I think its one of the needed consequences for him to face.
And since you have such a valuable ally in MIL, I think it makes perfect sense that when you explain Plan B to her it leads naturally into what OTHER consequences he needs to face.
Let her know that you are (lovingly) letting him hit bottom. And the sooner he does that, the sooner you will be there to help him back up. But she needs to let him go too. As long as there is anyone who protects him from the consequences of his decision, the longer it will take for him to recover from it.
It is HARD for a mom to let her baby fall.
But sheltering him from the consequences is the WORST thing she can do for him right now.

I had to let my baby go. Last Friday, my oldest moved away. Its a happy event -- he's off to school! But its thousands of miles away, and it the first time he's been away from me. And I'm bawling my head off about it. So I can only imagine how your MIL's heart is breaking.

Awww...Lex. Empty nesting, huh?

You stated the whole consequences thing much better than I did. I will state it that way to her. Maybe even ask to have both MIL and FIL on the phone when I state my case.

They need to know that I love WH and know that they do, too. MIL has said repeatedly that WH needs to "grow up" and I think that they need to look at their own role in preventing that from happening.

Sad, sad.

I am also afraid of jeopardizing my relationship with MIL if I push too hard...or if I push at all and she doesn't respond. I will be hurt, honestly. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

edit: oops, typo.

LS:


My only thought:



Yes, it is.

And, parents will always side with thier children when push comes to shove.

"I'll have no place to stay!"

"It will cost me a lot of money, and I'm trying to do right by your grandkids"

Tough love is great. But very few practice it. And only after being abused by the person who needs the tough love.

And WH has not yet abused his parents in anyway that would cause them to go to "tough love"

Because if they were not enabling him, they would not have let him stay in the house longer than a week.

Allowing him to come visit while he is still seeing the OW and destroying his M.

So.

You can ask your IL's for support in this. And state what you would like to happen and why you think it would work.

And hope they do that. And do not expect anything more.

Sorry, Sis. You are in this alone. You can use the MIL as a source of comfort, and understanding. But do not expect anything more than that.

Really. And I know that is heartbreaking for you. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

((((LS))))

LG

LilSis,

She has been with you suppporting you right from the beginning. She loves you, she loves her grand children and she loves her son. Right now WH is not the son she know or can be proud of. She has told him that she would never accept RT right? Tell her....

And if she doesn't respond (which I highly doubt) come here and we will comfort you.

Still

I think LG is right. Very few have the courage to do what needs to be done. I think MIL sees this all more clearly than FIL does.

Your best hope is to lay it all out there for them. Let them know what your MB plan has been all about. And that your plan means that you are there for WH and want him to come home. But he won't until the consequences happen. And if they protect him from those consequences, the chances of their GRANDCHILDRENS family being restored is much less.

You know they love those little boys. Ask for their help in protecting their grandson's family.

And then hope. That they do the right thing, instead of the easy thing.

lilsis, your thinking is logical...and I agree 100% that he needs to take responsibility for HIS actions...

sounds like you and MIL are pretty tight...thats good, I hope it works out the way you want it too, I think you should consider that they MIGHT not kick him to the curb, and think about your move IF that happens...just in case, then you are not floored. you know what I mean??? hope for the best, prepare for the worst

As much of a support as your Il's have been Lilsis... please do not forget that this is their son. You may be blindsided by some of their actions in the future if you fail to remember that. I agree with your take on things and would like to see them follow through...but if they feel that there is NO CHANCE of a recovery of your marriage... they are unlikely to do things that will see them lose their son. JMHO. I am not saying I know how they will react... I am just suggesting that you mentally prepare yourself that they may not react the way that you want them to. They may not see their dealings with their son as enabling moving forward. Don't take it personally... even though it feels that way...as it will not be an assault against you... just misguided loyalty to their son.
Let's hope it doesn't come to that.

MEDC

Okay...so it sounds bleak.

So, prepare for the worst. How do I do this? Assuming the worst, do I just accept who they are, what they are capable/incapable of, and let it go?

Or do I set a boundary and enforce it? (To protect myself from hurt, I can't have a relationship with you if you ....yada yada)

Or do I just tell them how their lack or support for my position and enabling of their adulterous son's behavior is hurtful, erodes my trust in them, erodes my ability to be open and vulnerable with them? And do my best from there??

Ugh. I don't want to go here. It stresses me out just thinking of this confrontation, and I know it will be a confrontation. I know I am going to be disappointed...AGAIN. And by MIL, who has been my ONE source of unwavering love and support through all of this.

Why do I keep feeling let down? And when I feel let down and/or disappointed, I don't respond well.

I am already feeling let down, because MIL hasn't called me. She called on Thursday night, after I left a sobbing message about the settlement conference notice. When she called at 11:30 my time, I was half doped up because I had taken a Xanax. We spoke briefly, but I asked her to check on me later in the weekend. Nothing. I left a message on their cell yesterday and she never called.

Maybe I can't count on her as much as I thought. Now I feel REALLY REALLY alone. I don't know if I can trust her.

Thank her for her support, point out that he is a big boy and needs to face the consequences of his own actions, let her know that you will miss them terribly if you can't come over there because he is there, and let it be.

It is not the death of your chances, even if it feels like it. Not biing kicked out might stretch the timeline for the death of the A, but will not likely alter the outcome. In other words, it may take longer but I believe it will still end the same. (I would also caution you against telling your MIL too much, strategy wise. I think telling her you had to remove yourself to protect your love for WH is fine, but wouldn't go into Plan A/Plan B in case she let something slip.)

I don't know why your MIL hasn't called, but even when every human support is taken away, we still have God. You not only have God, you have us, too.

Even if it doesn't feel like it, you're doing good at this.

{{{{{{{{Sis}}}}}}}}}}

(((LilSis)))

Maybe MIL hasn't got the message yet. I know sometimes on my cell I'll get VM days later.

I'm not sure what to say about the boundries with IL's. I am watching very carefully because I am following very soon. Although your IL have been a lot more supportive then mine. Mine are loving when they see me but have never called to see how I'm doing! Which kind of hurts. I mean I'm the mother to thier only grandchildren. My kids see this... and it's not really putting them in a favorable light.

Hopefully she'll call soon and you can get a "feel" from that conversation. I'm wondering also if WH let them know about the letter.

Still

Here's Mimi again...speaking the voice of truth.... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

All along I've been suspicious about his visit with them...

I hope I'm DEAD WRONG but I'm thinking that something is up...

It doesn't MAKE SENSE to ME that he would leave RT at this time and that she WOULD LET HIM..if this is not part of SOME SCHEME of theirs...

Would your ILs let him borrow money..for a place of his own?

Could he be going to convince them to let him stay at their house?

Even if you lose the support of your MIL..and of course I'm praying that this doesn't happen for you, Sis...you will still be OK..you will gain much EMOTIONAL STRENGTH..as I did, in learning how you can DEPEND SOLELY ON YOURSELF and the GOOD LORD for survival...WHAT A VALUABLE LESSON THAT I HAVE LEARNED FROM ALL OF THIS...Because HE is the ONLY ONE that was WITH ME IN THOSE MIDNIGHT HOURS...TA has gotten me self-conscious about this but I always feel compelled now..out of habit..to stress that this has been MY EXPERIENCE with no expectation for you to agree with me...

I give you these doses of REALITY, not wanting you to be as NAIVE as I was..I had NO IDEA that my FWH would PURCHASE a CONDO...even when my sources told me that it was TRUE..I said to myself NO WAY..that was JUST ONE of my SHOCKING SURPRISES along the way...don't put anything past a WH...

This is why PLAN B can be a lifesaver for you...as others have already said...You've got to LET HIM GO...and yes, LET THEM ALL GO..and completely TURN THIS OVER TO GOD..and focus on taking care of YOURSELF and YOUR BOYS...

NOW....WHAT HE DOES, WHERE HE GOES, WHAT HE SAYS TO HIS MOTHER..WHAT SHE SAYS TO HIM.... SHOULD NOT BE PART OF YOUR THOUGHT PROCESS....

Your message to your MIL should be..I HAVE LET HIM GO...PERIOD...

Thanks, Neak. I don't know why she hasn't called either...but they are out of town visiting family so maybe she doesn't feel comfortable making a call like that in that environment.

I should give her the benefit of the doubt.

I like your suggestion for what to say. And I don't want to give away too much strategy...I think she would not want to feel like she was being played or manipulated.

She told me she would totally understand and support me if I needed to go dark...she also says she can only do what is right for her and true to who she is.

I don't know if she has "tough love" in her.

I know I will still have God. I keep repeating Ps 23 over and over and over. It is so rich in imagery. I am a blessed child of God, wrapped in his loving embrace always. When I feel the fear, I have to visualize his cloak surrounding me, keeping me safe.

meggy...fyi...as I was walking yesterday, saying it over and over, I had to laugh to myself when I felt the urge to look over my shoulder for Goodness and Mercy.

We were posting at the same time again.

mimi:
They would not let him borrow money. No way.

He might be trying to convince them to let him stay...I'm sure that he will. Why move? Why have to find a place to live? Why have to buy furniture and pay for utilities to be hooked up? They only live there half the year, anyway. Those are the arguments he will make.

I pray for emotional strength. I feel tapped out. And if I lose MIL's support...mimi...no matter how deep my faith is...I will have no one, no one, no one who is HERE for me. Fear and desperation will set in if I don't have an emotional support system to help me through.

I guess I need a new support system. But everyone I know has problems of their own, kids to deal with, parents to take care of; I feel like a burden to people.

I cannot imagine any kind of "scheme" they might have. I just can't THINK of anything...I guess my mind isn't quite as devious.

FYI...the day he is leaving...3/12. That is their "anniversary." RT's email used to be beg312. I asked WH pre-d-day what the heck that meant, and he said, "Oh, I think it has something to do that she has 3 kids who are begging 12 hours per day."

No...clearly it was "began March 12."

I feel ill. I really need to speak to MIL.

Lilsis... you are not supposed to be dealing with this stuff right now. I do not agree with Mimi that there is a scheme...nor do I think your H needs RT's permission to go there.
But you need to calm down and work on a new support system. Stop worrying about what your H is doing now... this time is for you. If he stays there... he stays there... if they lend him money, then they do. You have no control over this stuff. Let go.

((((SIS))))

I understand. I HAD NO ONE EITHER. It was so sad for me when my YS, who was in high school at the time would tell me, "M, I was the only one there for you"...It continues to haunt me that he THINKS that I depended on him but it is true he was "THERE" in the house.

I found that I was able to TRUST IN THE LORD...I pray that HE WILL CONTINUE TO STRENGHTHEN YOU AND TO LIFT YOU UP...


((((SIS)))

LS,

Just wanted to say I'm keepin you in my thoughts and prayers.

(((LS)))

Completely agree with the quote above.

This is why I asked you Sis, do you have a plan for YOURSELF during Plan B. For example, Plan B time is a perfect opportunity to start thinking about goals and dreams you've had for YOURSELF but never acted on them.

I'd target something that's a semi-long term goal (1 - 2 years). I perceive you as someone who is goal oriented, true?

Jo

LilSis

Plan B is for you, the Betrayed Spouse. It's not for MIL, supportive though she undoubtedly has been. No mother is going to Plan B her own child.

Imagine this is you, in twenty/thirty years' time, and one of your sons has left his wife. You may feel furious with him, you may feel very supportive of your DIL, you may be very anxious to look out for your grandchildren. You might speak strongly to your son and make clear his responsibilities as taught to him by you. But, if the marriage does break up, would you want to have alienated your own son for good? If he got together with the OW, would you want them so hostile that you were exiled from any grandchildren from that relationship? (I know, this is the most nauseating thought, but it has to be tucked away somewhere in your MIL's mind.) Chances are the DIL would remarry and move away; she's not blood kin, the bond is different.

She's his mother, she gave birth to him and raised him. If it comes down to him or you...would you really, as a mother yourself, choose you?

Sorry, LS, this is a downer message, but over the years here I've learned how easily even the toughest MILs cave under threat of losing their child. Don't feel let down by your MIL - she's done very much better than most - but there is a limit to what you can ask of her. She may well be too scared of losing him to kick him out of the house, and if so, your boundary is clear. It doesn't make her an enemy, just a mother.

She's been a great prop to you so far - but now it's time to let go of that support and find your own, independent strength. I know how frightening and exhausting that looks from where you are, but believe me, you will gain from each draining minute. This is a big growth opportunity coming up (yes, enough growth already!).

From here on in, you need to peel your focus off of WH and the Turd. These two have occupied your mind, night and day, for months, so it's not easy to let go. Now it's LilSis time - time for all those parts of LilSis that have been languishing in the shadows for months and years. Find groups of people to have light fun and some companionship with. Join a book group, a writing class, a cinema club (no romance, of course!) Find people who don't know your situation well, so you have an environment where you're not the invalid, where you can just be 'normal'.

It will be OK. I promise you.

TA

Yes. a support system. That should be my focus. I will cope with the MIL issue in its own time. But I will need to deal with it....

I reached out to a friend here at work...we are not super close, but she has always been very supportive of me and MOST IMPORTANT, non-judgemental.

Compassionate. She might be able to give me some support. There are others, too...again, that issue with not wanting to be a burden is blocking me...

I need someone (or two) who allow me to be ME...putting their own opinions and points of view aside and just accepting of ME, my honesty, my feelings. Those people are few and far between.

Do you know what I mean?

My friend Lisa is one...but she's dealing with her own FWH.

mimi...I'm new to a relationship with God, so I don't know that I have the depth of faith to go there, to trust in him to lift me up.

I think DS11 also has that sense of being "there"...WAAAY too much to put on an 11-y-o. Whenever he sees me crying, he right away asks if he can make me some tea; of course I say yes. He WANTS so desperately to do something to help...what a tremendous burden, and it's not fair. And I take responsibility for putting him in that position, even if utlitmately the responsiblity is WH's. Still....I'm the one crying, sad, not eating....that's on me.

You are all right. I need to cut those apron strings. Just processing it through here this morning makes me feel less panicky at the thought. I need to grow up. I can't count on my "mom" forever.

I need to do the "there, there, shhh, shh" thing for myself. Or find friends who will do it for me, when I really need an actual shoulder.

Yes, it is absolutely frightening and exhausting and I have HAD IT with growth. I'm ready for the dang harvest.

Yes, Jo, I'm goal oriented.

If this helps...I'm "interviewing" for that new position here at work later this week. I have to re-do what was once the nursery...peel wallpaper, etc.\

I just feel so darn tired. Setting goals seems like one more "thing" I have to do.

The Chicago trip group plays poker a couple of times per month, but I've got the kids...sigh. That's the hurdle for a lot of this stuff...I wish the kids were one year older and then I could leave them for a couple of hours.

Just feeling a bit overwhelmed today, I guess....but I WANT to move FORWARD. I just feel tired, a bit at a loss, not sure "what's next" for ME or even how to figure that out.

It's hard to switch gears. I need help with this.

Lilsis... I know you know your kids best...but I will leave my 11 year old home for a few hours. He is pretty mature and I have great neighbors in case any emergency pops up. I know it is a matter of personal preference and maturity of the child...but give it a fresh look. Of course, my son never had a younger sibling to watch after though (and he has three big dogs here to "protect" him).

MEDC

I don't STRONGLY feel that there's a SCHEME..but I still say DON'T BE SURPRISED about anything...

Your WH is acting OUT OF HIS CHARACTER AND SO DID MINE...

I say these things to forewarn you so you won't be surprised..I certainly PRAY THAT I'M WRONG...

I didn't LISTEN to FOLKS that forewarned me...and I'm sorry that I didn't...

My observations are meant to HELP..not to HURT...

This all being said....

I AGREE A ZILLIONTH WITH EVERY WORD THAT TA SAID...

http://www.totsafe.com/homealone.htm

thought you might want to look at this Lilsis.

It IS hard to switch gears, Plan A to B.

I think you've more than earned yourself a break, Sis. Maybe a few weeks of light fun plans (or no plans) and nothing else is in order for you.

My point for adding a goal to your plate is to fill that area in your brain thats been habitually occupied with WH and what he's doing/saying. I think once you feel re-freshed, you should find something YOU love and emesh yourself in it.

Plan A work can become an addiction in of itself, yanno?

Jo

Yup. An addiction I want desperately to break.

In terms of the short-term...I'm still really looking forward to the Chicago trip for St. Paddy's day weekend. There were a flurry of emails over the weekend...where we are going, who's driving, what do we have to bring...everyone's EXCITED (me, too)

That will be fun, fun, fun.

I also very much want to treat Lisa to something at the spa. Massage, facial, pedicure...something we can do together.

Maybe some new cooking? Have the boys choose some new recipes to try for them to make? That kind of low-key, homey, fun kind of stuff. Maybe I'll have them teach me how to play their favorite x-box game...that would be hoot.

Yes...right now I need to think short, short term. A little breather. Get my feet under me while I make the transition and start feeling comfortable with focusing on MY life, what I need.

Maybe it just comes slowly...?? One day I'll wake up and realize that I went five whole minutes without thinking about WH. Yay!

The good news, too, is that the new job stuff should start kicking in in May-ish. That would be a great thing to emesh myself in...a whole new project, working with a new team on a brand new initiative.

Yes...right now I'm not in a position to commit to anything...a class, a book club...none of that. Just breathe, look around at the scenery of my life, count my blessings...of which there are MANY MANY MANY!

I know I am blessed and fortunate. Why am I not HAPPY? I mean all the time, like I used to be; laughing and smiling my way through life. Somewhere I lost that.

{{{{Lil Sis}}}}, you can only tell them your truth and what your actions mean. Then you let it go! This is where you HAVE to trust God-- one way or the other. You can't ask "but HOW will this work if they don't do what I think they need to do." As in the words of Kim Clements (a current day mighty man of God) -- get the HOW out! Leave it to God. Hand it over to HIM. You can't control them just like you can't control WH. You CAN control whether you allow all the circumstances (you SEE) to determine what happens in the future (what you DON'T SEE).

Ahhh...you are so right, meggy. I can share my truth with them, and hope that they understand and see things the way that I see them, but ultimately, it is up to them.

I guess I am most apprehensive about how I will feel when they don't do things "my way." Which is the eternal question, and the one I need to keep challenging myself on. Let them be them, and respect them, be compassionate towards them.

But it will alter our relationship.

Thus needing to find a new life for myself, and a new support system, continuing to BUILD my faith in God. Feeling a sense of confidence from that faith. I'm getting there. I'm at least understanding what I DON'T know, which is the first step, right?

I asked SL about this on her thread this morning...she said it was about a month before she began to feel like she was focusing more on HER than on WH. She also said, "one foot in front of the other."

A step at a time. Don't get all hung up on the future...just as you said...What I DON'T SEE.

That is somehow so freeing.

Yup. Step by tiny little step. All these tiny steps add up, slowly.

Here's the upside; you now have absolute permission to let go of worrying about anything else but you and the boys. Everyone else in your world carries their own burden. You get to be ruthless about it.

TA

WOW! That IS freeing! Let's keep this our secret or you'll have everyone fleeing into Plan B.

That is a very succinct way to put it. Is it my problem or a problem for my kids? No? Alrighty then! (brush hands and walk away)

It is a great way to look at Plan B related to WH.

Half day of school on "his" day? Not my problem.

Not certain when conferences are? Not my problem.

No place to keep the cat when you go to sunny AZ? Not my problem.

Feeling strapped? Not my problem.

Am I getting carried away?

LilSis,

My WH stayed with his stepfather and half-brother BOTH times that he left. They supported my position, but were in their own precarious placement in the middle of this mess. I could not control others' and what they had to do in order to sleep at night.

My family lives in the same town, but were very much wrapped up in themselves. My mother is gone, and his mother is gone. I relied on myself, my resilience, my friends. You will be fine. I would let him go and find your way, SLOWLY.

Support is HERE, also. I know we are not close or right in front of you, we can't hold you, but we hear you. We know you, we are you...

I wouldn't set this boundary with IL's; it's a tough battle for them, very difficult to choose to deny their son. ANyway, you don't really have any answers about his visit. Wait for information, prior to specualtion. It's rough on you. I would also refrain from talking about your WH with the IL's so that you are dark, it goes both ways. WH doesn't know about you, you don't know about him.

Tough situation, Sis. You will be fine, baby steps...

Thasss right... Those are thing you no longer have to FIX for WH. He gets to experience life without his FIXER for awhile.

You and the boys in the meantime get to grow closer and tighter as Mom focuses more on (1) God, (2) Mom and (3) the boys (in that order)-- cause neglecting any of these three things (right now) makes life hard, hard, hard.

LOL. Not in the least.

You can only give away the energy you've got spare - ever.

Right now, you're in the middle of a huge period of turmoil and transition. This needs every bit of energy you've got. If you use up your resources on problems which other people are capable of dealing with themselves, you'll not be able to keep going yourself. It's that old chestnut, healthy selfishness.

Forget about what people think of you. This is survival.

TA

Don't stress your MIL too much, no matter what she does. The others are right, that she has been far better than most, and not everyone can be Melody Lane. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I feel like I gave up by ending Plan A. Did I give up? Did I give up on me, on him? Did I hand my H to that wh*re on a silver platter? (Daze that phrase is etched in my mind)

I guess only I have the answer.

I have felt so much better today. So much lighter. Not perfect, but not stressing over what I'm going to do to meet WH's needs today. It felt good to walk out of the office, good to go grocery shopping. It was about me, the boys, what do WE want to eat? What can WE make? It felt freeing.

Even a sense of, hey, I can do this. I'm okay. I'll BE okay. I deserve so much more; I deserve this sense of freedom. I am special, unique, and that immoral, lying RT can't hold a candle to me. The fact that he would choose her over me says more about him than me. So many people love and care for me. I know that's still basing my self worth on what others think...but d*mn it feels good to reflect on how many people enjoy me, like me, laugh with me. How people turn to me for help, when they have a project and just want it DONE NOW, need a letter of recommendation, need a good idea, need a shot of creativity, need someone to laugh with.

I'm valuable, and I am worth loving. I do not deserve what WH has done to me; how he's treated me; how he's devalued me.

If WH and I did reconcile, would I ever be able to walk through the grocery store with him and wonder if he is looking at every woman there? Would I ever trust him again? Would I wonder forever? And is that how I want to live? Can I respect him again?

Yes, I want my sons to have an intact family. Yes, I want to sit by my H when they get married. Yes, I want to share my life with H. Yes, I want to be with him. Yes, I want to be a part of his family. Yes, I want to realize all the hopes and dreams we had when we started out. But can we ever have that again? Would there forever be a cloud over us?

It has been so long...and SOOO much has happened. So much ugliness, so much betrayal.

Is it really possible? I guess with God anything is possible.

So....maybe I did hand RT my H on a silver platter. I don't want to think that, I want to think I did everything I could do without sacrificing my sanity. So maybe a better way to look at it is that he handed himself on a silver platter. He sacrificed himself, me, our children, his family....to her.

I can hold my head high...knowing I did all I could....walking away with my sanity and dignity intact.

But did I give up? Did I give up on him?

Sis, if you gave up then we wouln't be reading your lastest posts.

No you didn't give up you just changed gears.

Also, you didn't give RT anything. Your WH gave up his own principles.

I can only guess how much respect he will have for you oneday for doing this.

YES, the answer is yes. And its the same answer whether its you asking these questions of yourself or it's your husband asking in a quiet moment, which I'm sure he has.

Jo

Hi Lilsis...
You are doing great!

Did you ever go back and read the posts you hadn't read on page 12? I want to be sure you had a chance to read the story I wrote out called A Parable About the King, because it so directly relates to being a valuable and beloved child of God and I think it will really speak to you right now.

If you read it, I'm glad! (And I'm not looking for any special acknowledgement, I just wanted to be sure you read it because I thought it would touch you!) <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Page 12 on your thread.

Hang in there and stay strong!
Blessings,
Glad

No, Lilsis, you did not give up. If you had given up, you would not be here asking and wondering. I want to remind you to envision a drug addict. You have had a affair-addict in your house, and in order to keep getting his "fix" he has brought sleezy, criminal-types into your house and into your life. Just like any addict, he does not see how stealing from you or hurting you does any harm--all he sees is the "fix." And like any addict, he is willing to steal or harm in order to GET his "fix". Soooo...like anyone would do if their own child were a drug addict--first you gave him rules that he refused to follow--outright refused. Then you showed him how living at home was a privilege, and one that he could lose...and that didn't motivate him to stop his drugs. Then you began to take away some of his privileges while simultaneously enforcing rules...and that still didn't motivate him to stop! Finally, he allowed someone into the house who took away the PRIZED POSSESSION that cost a LOT! And like anyone else who has had an addict in the house, you were put in a bad spot. You HAVE TO protect yourself and your home from the addict, because they can not think straight...you had to kick the addict out.

Now, no doubt the addict will spin a horrible story of abuse that you "kicked them out right when they needed you" blah blah blah. But the fact is, the addict will not stop doing their drug UNTIL THEY HIT ROCK BOTTOM and face the full consequences of their drugs. You made it so that can happen FASTER for him. You made it so that he does not suffer so long in his addiction. But in a way, it feels like you have completely given over your loved out to drugs, doesn't it? Like, "Now I've let him have all the coke he can shoot up!!" and you know what? You're right! He's free to snort his drug now all he wants! And you know what he'll find out (a lot faster, btw)? That his drug does not give him the high. That being at home was good. That he MISSES it. If you had let him stay at home and do his drug--it would have taken him a lot longer.


LilSis--think of a drug addict again. If the drug addict...ALL ON HIS OWN got himself into a rehab program...and on his own attended NA meetings...and on his own freely admitted that he was DEEPLY wrong and that now he sees what harm he did, whereas under the influence of the drug he didn't see it. Would you trust that drug addict again? Maybe not right away. But if the drug addict was where he said he was going to be...and with whom he said he was going to be. If the drug addict attended church on his own and you could see by his life that he had a relationship with God--a baby one, but it was a start! If the drug addict made the effort to stay away from his old junkie friends and make new, BETTER friends...and if the drug addict made specific efforts to tell you, "I don't want to GO to XYZ grocery store because there is stuff there that tempts me and I'm not sure I'm strong enough to stand against it yet." Would you begin to trust that drug addict again? If, over time, you could SEE the change in the drug addict's life, because of the changes HE made to his own life--can you see how and why you might be able to begin anew?

LilSis--this is what we are suggesting/encouraging for your life. For a long time now, you let your addict stay and tried to show him that you what he would be losing if he kept chasing his drug. Now, you need to let him catch the drug and decide FOR HIMSELF to stop chasing it. There's no way for him to see that (and see it quickly) if he doesn't lose it for a while.

Soooooo...for now, I have a suggestion. Do something uniquely YOU. You know how your WH never let you buy red pillows for the couch because they were too "loud"...but you LOVE red pillows?? Go buy some red pillows. You know how you could never leave your shoes in the middle of the room because he didn't like that? Wantonly leave them in the middle of the room and enjoy it! Eat cake for dinner. For now, do was is uniquely YOU.

Your faithful friend,


CJ

Speaking of being free to do what YOU want now... as Reba says... "We're gonna eat hotdogs for dinner... and we're gonna eat 'em in the bathroom!" LOL <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

NO .... not your H, not at ALL....

The wh*re is the one who welcomes the WH TURD ... your H is nowhere to be found lately

don't confuse the two

Pep

Lilsis-I was told by someone today that its not about "giving up"..its about changing your priorities.

LilSis, in my experience, Plan A alone only works if a) the WS has had the A mainly to get the BS to take notice of the problems in the marriage, and b) the WS has no great emotional attachment to the OP.

I don't believe your marriage had any huge problems, and I DO think your H has an emotional attachment...not to the OP per se, but to an image of himself that is 'anchored' by the OP at present.

So I think you could have Plan A'd till you retired without having much effect.<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

You haven't given up; you've fought a tough fight against impossible odds.

But the painful thing to accept, as you've observed, is that the marriage can never be what it was. Even if your WH comes back tomorrow, your life together would be utterly different. That's a death; that's grief.

When he comes back, and if you are willing to have him, it will have to be pretty much a new marriage. He will have been through an awfully bad adventure - he will not be the same man. You won't be able to pick up where you left off, unless you're comfortable with keeping a lot under the carpet. You will have to be a very different woman, to be able to encompass the huge changes in him.

Right now, he is far from sure that you can do that - after all, you signed up to be a loyal wife with a safe marriage. He has given you a burden of complex pain that no 'normal' wife can ever expect to deal with.

Mimi's story is signicant, in that a major turning point was her act of putting her dream home on the market (and selling it the first day). It was a declaration of independence, of emotional growth, of toughness...and it had a profound effect on her WH. I believe it gave him confidence that she could cope with the tangled complexity of their damaged relationship.

Your WH will, I believe, need to see that you are a tough, capable, independent woman, in order to have the confidence to come back.

Plan B pretty much forces you down that path.

Whether the strong, independent LilSis will want the (F)WH back is not certain. That 'freedom to choose' is what you need to have.

You are doing fine.

TA

Oh, and Pep said it beautifully.

RT is willing to take delivery of a man for whom it is fine to lie, deceive and betray one's deepest commitments.

You, on the other hand, are only willing to accept a profoundly honest and honourable man.

Which do you think he'd rather see himself as?

TA

((((((lilsis)))))))
beautiful letter.

pulling for you. fyi...my initial PBL was very lovey dovey...kind of like yours...WS doesn't even remember what it said.

I don't know what is wrong or right, but I think owl has a point...at least you have to say something about NC with amy being a condition of reconciliation.

remember this is for you, your sanity, your mental health, and saving all those wonderful feelings from being stomped on. those are the good things to hold onto.

Wow...thanks everyone. All of you: Neak, Glad, M2L, Resilient, TA, CJ, Meggy, H68, Pep...Your collective words are like the warm embrace I was talking about earlier. Comforting. Safe. Reassuring. I'm okay, I'm going to be okay!

I am at a turning point; I can feel it. Tonight the boys and I had dinner; we sat down together, said grace...they had omlettes and I had a salad.

I made us smoothies for dessert with stawberries and blueberries that I had frozen last summer.

The boys are both caught up on their homework and put away their laundry. DS8 is reading in bed, DS11 is in the shower. While DS8 was in the bathtub, I sat on the edge with my feet in the warm water and read him children's Bible stories.

I've got the boys doing more "jobs" than they used to...I've given them some responsiblities that they hadn't had before. They did those today without complaint. We are all stepping up and taking responsibility for each other and our home in ways that we didn't before.

Later this week I have my "interview" for the new position at work. (I'm the only one interviewing since they didn't post the job)

I am feeling (for the moment!!!) positive about moving ahead, moving forward. Charting a new course...who knows what lies ahead? More comfortable with giving it to God. Live for today; let him bring me to the tomorrow that he has planned. He will work it out for good. He has blessed me in so many ways. Good friends, loving family, two beautiful, smart, caring boys, a great job, a comfortable home. And sunshine...two days in a row!

A new LilSis is emerging.

My concern and sadness would be if I hadn't done everything I could do to save my marriage. If I wasn't strong enough to do Plan A for as long as I should have.

I will grieve, I have been grieving, the loss of everything that WAS...my innocence, my marriage, my illusions, my H as the golden boy. Now I need to begin to rejoice in other things...the blessings I just mentioned, my newfound strength, my new relationship with God, the support I've found from the wonderful people here, and in all the ways I have grown.

The hard part is imagining what might lie ahead. In a marriage, there's a certain amount of complacency...this is how things will be until I die. That's all out the window now...after 13 years of believing in it. Switching gears...shifting priorities....there's a LOT of resistance to starting over.

Hard to overcome the inertia of 13 years, love, kids, a home, history, hopes and dreams for the future, social convention, etc.

Ah, well. Such is life. It goes on...

FWCJ!


Great going on the homefront. You expressed it so eloquently and down to the core truths.


Takes reality vision to work through these denial layers cycles of dsyfunction.


Millions of people with hearts make good grown up choices, take responsiblity for their own addictions and get the help they need without harming/destroying people they care about/love...


Why do they what they do? Simply just because they CAN, and are enabled and empowered to do so... the problem is so deep & systemic.

Good morning Sis.. You have stated recently that you feel so alone - that you have no support group

Sis - look at this, here is your support group so far on Plan B ~~~

Mimi
nia
Bugsmom
MEDC
owl
M2L
AmI
TA
nabohio
InADaze
Princessmeggy
MikeTC
Wildhorses
Pep
Eph525
Marsh
Mulan
Cherishing
Lexxxy
Jayban
Trix
Eav
LG
BrambleRose
moveforward
schoolbus
Neak
fiatflux
Still
skylite
Glad
Jim
silentlucidity
GrownUp
carnation
CC1
Resilient
johnstwin
NeverToLate
knewbetter
shellybird
fightingback
CJ
Hoping68

All these people are in your corner and helping you.

You are not alone... we all love you !!!


Hope this helps - carnation

(I also hope I did not leave anyone off who has posted to this thread, or mis spell a name)

And the many nameless others who stop by just to check in and say a prayer on a regular basis.

{{{LS}}}

I surely didn't intend to imply that I didn't feel supported HERE! I am so grateful for each an every one of you!

I hope it was clear that I was referring to my real life support network...the actual shoulders that I can get all soggy with my tears and runny nose. (Doesn't that image make you glad that you are all my "virtual" support system!)

Another good morning, actually. I ran the gauntlet from the school to downtown--right through the heart of the north patrol area--without spotting a singe cop car. My heart was a little high in my chest, but I made every light so it went quickly.

I had an appt with my PO this morning, too. When I walked into the office, the lady there (who was so kind when I was in there sobbing right after my sentencing hearing) told me how every time I come in I look so much better and she's so glad to see that. As I walked out of the office on that sentencing date, still sobbing, she stopped me, got up from her desk and walked over toward me, put her hand on my arm and told me that a year from now, I would look at this all like a bad dream. Another angel.

My PO told me to have fun in Chicago and told me that I didn't need to come back until May.

Still feeling refreshed and unencumbered. Still no call from MIL. Still no attempt at breaking Plan B from WH.

I've had a few moments of feeling panicky about that...thinking oh, no, I've turned him over to evil, I did the wrong thing...but then I REMEMBER everything that you all said here yesterday...and I remember how I deserve better, how I can still have a life and be happy...because the person that WH is now is NOT someone I want in my life at ALL.

Again...very deliberately and conciously keeping at the front of my mind that this WH is someone that my H would have considered dispicable. I really miss my H, and wish that he were around to protect me from WH. If he were around, he definately would. He would never have let anyone treat me or our boys with such disregard and inflict such pain on us.

I did send Lisa (my intermediary) an email to let her know that WH had mentioned the cat to DS11...I let her know that the answer to such a request would be NO.

ETA: Thank you, Carn, for really demonstrating how broad my support network is!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> You are all so wonderful!

morning, LS!

you sound good this morning.
stay focused and upbeat.....maybe go get a pedicure! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Have fun in Chicago!

My twin went to college there and then lived in the area for about 6 years. I loved visiting him...although I wouldn't recommend taking the express elevator in the Hancock building to anyone with vertigo.

My DS-24 is planning to move there with her friends in October so I'll have a reason to head back the Windy City.

I think you are doing a great job focusing on the truth that this WH isn't your H. Let him be in God's hands. As a mutual friend told me when my WH left, "God will deal with him much more creatively than you ever could." (I instantly thought of Jonah but my WH doesn't spend much time on boats...) <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

LS,

Still praying for you. Someone posted a link to this video some time back and I frequently listen to it and break down in tears when I remember that God will never leave me. Remember, you are not alone!

http://www.jasonupton.net/com/index...k=view&id=237&Itemid=365

LilSis

H and I had to do a sort-of "plan b" with our son after he turned 18

when he got kicked out of the sober-living home we had arranged for him (he broke the rules and did not stay sober) ... he was kicked out on the streets for 3 days ... we did NOT come to his rescue ... if "Pep" can do that ... LS can do this .... you are being prepared for future tough choices .... today's lessons will be necessary for tomorrow's challenges

My prayer for your husband is this:

~Dear heavenly Father
I pray LilSis's adulterous husband fully experiences the pain of his choices and You bring him to his knees broken and ready to surrender to your will, not his own. God our Father, spare him no pain but death. I pray her WH is as miserable as possible and humbled before you. AMEN~

LilSis ... do not step in to protect WH from God's displeasure .... distance yourself from this process.

God loves YOU and your marriage enough to smack your WH around.

Pep

Sis, can you plan a vacation with the boys...doesn't have to be long, just different. Spring break, a long weekend, the first week off school? The great thing about planning a vacation, is that it is something to look forward to (you and boys), a real get away from your town with all those cop cars and breakfast diners, WH has to wonder what you all are doing without him. Have you and the boys ever gone away without him before?

I believe that if he had to wonder what you were doing and with whom, it would really thrown a monkey wrench into this affair. He has absolutely no fear that you are going to meet someone else. He doesn't have to wonder what life would be like watching you and the kids and someone else enjoying what should be his. He knows you are waiting for him. Now he should wonder and get that gut wrenching pain of the possibility.

Go 180 degrees. He will find out thru MIL or Lisa or someone through the grapevine that you 3 are having the time of your life WITHOUT him.

I did this very thing and it was way out of my comfort zone to travel with only my son (girls were away at school) alone, but we did it AND we had fun AND WH was beside himself. My son and I deserved the treat, and WH deserved the not knowing what the he11 was going on.

Pep:
I am stepping away. My boundary is firm. Not my problem is my new mantra.

I only wish my ILs had your fortitude. My final issue will be with them, sharing how things became intolerable over the past couple of weeks and, as a result, what I need to do to protect myself.

I also wish to express my wish for them to support my need to initiate NC and my hope that they understand my point of view on his continued residence in their home. I don’t know what or how I will express this…but these are JUST MY THOUGHTS ON THE MATTER…NOT WHAT I WILL SAY. (kind of a vent, and a way for me to process my own thinking)

1. To protect myself and my love for WH, I have ended all contact with him. I still love him, and wish for H to return to our family, but at present this person he has become is choosing to pursue another life.

2. I have been clear with him that once he has ended all contact with RT and wishes to rebuild our marriage, I will listen and work with him.

3. I do not wish to know what he is doing or how he is feeling. It is difficult enough as it is. I need these wounds to heal. I also wish for my actions and feelings to remain confidential.

4. I must PROTECT myself and the boys in every way. The boys and I have been victims of his selfishness, disrespect, carelessness and immaturity. I can no longer place myself or the boys in that environment.

5. I firmly believe that WH must live with his choices...ALL OF THEM.

He chose to betray my trust and inflict tremendous pain on me; therefore I choose to be wary of him and no longer consider him a "friend" or as someone who cares for me.

He chose to file for divorce; therefore I choose to protect myself and the boys financially.

He chose to keep pets; and I choose not to care for them while he goes on vacation.

He chose to be an adulterer and do so publicly; therefore I choose to expose his adultery.

He chose to end our marriage and destroy our family; and I chose to fight for it, for as long as I could.

He chose a new life, one without me and as a part-time father in which he behaves in a way that is unrecognizable to me; therefore I choose to end all contact with him.

My choices are NATURAL AND REASONABLE RESPONSES to his behavior. It is not an indictment of who is deep down. The man that I married, the man whom I still believe exists, DEEP DOWN, would have cheered me on. He would NOT want to see me hurt. He would NOT want to see his children suffer. He would NOT want me to put myself in the way of pain and suffering. If he were here, he would protect me. He’s not here, so I have to protect myself.

This is how I need to look at it: What Would H Do?

My choices are consequences of WH's behavior, of choices HE has made. They are NOT punishments.

WH chose to leave our home to begin this new life, to be with a married woman and leave his wife and children. You have chosen to give him shelter in your home for nine months.

As difficult as it may be, my sincere wish is that you also allow WH to experience the natural and reasonable consequence of his choice. He has chosen to leave HIS home and HIS family. He should experience what that truly means. It means the expense of an apartment, of hooking up utilities, of buying furniture.

Only by being forced onto that path will he personally experience how painful and difficult his choice is. It will hit him in the pocketbook. That is not something that he can gloss over, not something that will “work itself out,” not something that others will “get over.” His financial situation is REAL, it is NOW, it is IMMEDIATE, and it is PERSONAL.

I firmly believe that a big dose of reality will hasten his inevitable date with rock bottom. I firmly believe that God will be there for him...ONCE HE HAS NO WHERE ELSE TO TURN.

You love your son. You have compassion for your son. But this man is NOT your son, no more than he is my husband, or N and J’s father.

You have stated that WH needs to "grow up." You have called his behavior "immature."

Yet you have allowed him to return to and live in his childhood home…and he is behaving like a child. His immoral, immature, and selfish behavior CONTINUES UNABATED.

You are ENABLING him remain immature. You are NOT ALLOWING him to feel the NATURAL AND REASONABLE CONSEQUENCE of his choice to leave his home and family. The longer WH avoids these consequences, the longer he can remain in this la-la land of unreality.

Do you remember your son? The man I married? That man would VEHEMENTLY DISCOURAGE YOU from allowing this immature, irresponsible and selfish person to take advantage of your love and compassion.

I ache for the man that I married, and I miss him terribly, as I’m sure you do as well. But the man we see now is NOT HIM. I do not want this stranger to come between us, to prevent me from coming to your home, from sharing holidays and family gatherings with you. But if WH is a constant presence, and I have committed to ending contact for my own protection, that will be another consequence…one that we both will bear.

I do not wish for that to happen.

*******

Again...just my rambling thoughts. Heck, I don't even know if MIL will ever call me again...I haven't heard from her since Weds. about midnight. ????

But it helps for me to be clear in my OWN mind about where I stand on this. Where they stand on it is something I will have to respect and deal with myself.

Sorry for the earlier rant. It makes it seem as if I am fixating on that today...actually I'm not...just wanted to get my thoughts in order and get to a comfortable place with my thinking on the issue. Make sure I had thought it through.

I am not getting any work done today, obviously.

cc1: I thought about spring break...maybe going to visit my sister in the UP. She's going to Florida, though, so that doesn't work. I am fine with traveling with the boys, I've always been pretty independant that way...before we were married and since separation. I have no concerns about driving anywhere on my own.

I just don't have a place to go. I can't afford to do much, and don't really have anyone to visit. Phoenix is a little far! I did think about a trip though...maybe I should give it more thought, maybe try to find some cheap place even if it's not warm...just a get-away, even if it's just for a few days.

Those thoughts should be sent via letter or email to your MIL. They are well said and stated. Clean up as you see fit... but send it... and then release it.

BTW... LILSIS... I am very proud of you.

Here's an idea... my DDs LOVE to go to a motel (even in our own town), watch movies, order pizza, tell stories, and most of all, use the POOL! I'm in MT so those pools are INDOORS. I swim with them or grab a good book and read while they play. We don't do it often due to money constraints but when we do, we all have a blast.

Sometimes just doing something out of the norm is a good stress reliever.

Fox

Sis:

I'm sharing from the perspective of being in your MIL's shoes. My son is not a wayward. He's not even married..but he has the sweetest GF whom I like a lot. She wants a commitment from him and he is working on that BUT..He is difficult and has many personal issues that he needs to work on...Bottom line..I support her and admire her ability to be in a relationship with him... I think I would be LIKE your MIL if he were married to her...

That being said...

If you were MY DIL you would LOSE me if I at all felt that you were trying to CONTROL ME or to TELL ME WHAT I SHOULD DO IN THE PARENTING OF MY SON...I fully understand your position but I would feel like you were being DISRESPECTFUL of my ability to take care of HIM and to do what's best for HIM. You would be stepping into the MOTHER ROLE and I would want you to remain his WIFE.

You see what I mean at all?




The YOU..YOU..comments would really bother me. I think as long as you talked about YOURSELF and how YOU FEEL it might be OK...such as "In my opinion, letting him stay in your house is not helpful....Otherwise, I would feel like you were trying to control ME in a condescending way...."I would be thinking: "I am his MOTHER. What gives you the right to tell ME how to treat MY SON. I will do as I choose."


But maybe this is JUST ME...

I just wanted to share this with you in case your MIL might have the same reaction.

I am a father Lilsis and I would appreciate that type of communication. I would hold my son accountable for his actions no matter his age or place in life.

This is just my opinion... but I think you SHOULD communicate the stuff and then release it. Hopefully it will get through but you cannot expect that it will. As far as I am concerned with EVERYTHING in life... I believe in doing the right thing and letting the chips fall where they may.

ETA...if she asked "who are you?" Your reponse would simply be his wife.... the woman that is supposed to come before all others in his life... including his mom.

I'm not saying that I would not hold my son accountable for his actions.

But I would do it MY OWN WAY and would want my DIL to give her opinions to me in a manner in which she communicates CONFIDENCE in my ability to do the RIGHT THING...

I do think it's different looking at this from the perspective of a PARENT OF AN ADULT like I am..than from the perspective of a PARENT OF A CHILD....

I looked at my parenting much differently back then..and my son was a lot different back then...Shucks, when he was a little boy I couldn't conceive of him ever leaving me and falling in love with a woman.

It's the same as if I told his GF what he needs to eat for dinner and how often he needs SF..I'm speaking of boundary issues....

And Plus:

I don't want us to get in a disagreement about this. That's not necessary. I was just sharing MY PERSPECTIVE.

I would hate for Sis to lose her MIL's support is all.

I agree with Mimi about this >>>

"You are ENABLING him remain immature. You are NOT ALLOWING him to feel the NATURAL AND REASONABLE CONSEQUENCE of his choice to leave his home and family. The longer WH avoids these consequences, the longer he can remain in this la-la land of unreality."

this is tricky

be BRIEF
be KIND to the in-laws
and only own what YOU are doing

Pep

I am not debating you Mimi... just giving my perspective as a parent.

Thanks, MEDC.

In the spirit of getting NOTHING done today...You got me thinking, CC!!

I ended up on a vacation rental site...maybe DC would be a great trip for the boys and I...???

Think I could do it on my own? Navigate the metro, et al?

EXACTLY..The first part of your post when YOU were talking about YOURSELF seems fine...

GOTCHA, MEDC...

Even though you are absolutely right in everything you say here, I'm with Mimi on this one - take this part out. It will only force MIL up against a wall so that she has to choose between you and her son. Which one do you think will win?

Just take all this out and replace it with something like, "I hope I can count on your continued support for preserving N and J's family as well as your help in keeping adulterous third parties from intruding in that same family."

Mulan

I think LilSis' post was really a vent about her MIL, rather than anything she actually intends to say?

Personally, I think LS made many fair points, but ultimately she has no jurisdiction over her MIL - all she can do is state her position and ask for help...and accept that her MIL has a right to refuse.

If it were my son, I think I'd feel a sense of guilt that I hadn't raised him well enough to stand by his wife and children. I wonder if I'd be trying to 'make up' to my DIL for what my son lacked?

Allowing the son to stay in the parental house rent-free does seem like supporting him as if he were still a child. I wonder how much guilt the MIL feels for doing this? I would be surprised if this were not a very sensitive area for her.

Perhaps needs to be broached with delicacy?

TA

I'm a little worried that you haven't heard from MIL. I wouldn't send her an email like this right now... I would wait until you talk to her because it seems like something may have changed.

I agree w/Mimi that it might not be received too well the way it is currently worded. Some of it may across like scolding. The problem with email is that it's too easy to be harsher than you would be if you were talking face to face.

Oops...all my internet vacation browsing I missed the latest.

Those comments that mimi and pep quoted were not at all what I would actually SAY...just my own thinking...venting. I see how that could be interpreted as disrespectful, although I beleive I could make the point in a very respectful, loving way...by stating it differently, using the right tone of voice, etc.

However...

I am concerned about MY boundary and how I might define it. If they continue to enable him (I think we all agree that's what they are doing??) then what is my relationship with them to be like?

I can't go to their home. I can't have dinner with them. I can't drop off the boys and have a conversation.

More important...I don't know what feelings I might experience as a result of their actions/inaction. I might withdraw...I might lose trust...I know those feelings are MY choice...but they would be natural reactions, yes?

I really don't want to go down this road because we really dealt with it yesterday....ultimately, I NEED MY OWN SUPPORT SYSTEM apart from MIL.

To rely on her is to set myself up for pain and disappointment....she will choose her son.

But I DO need to think about and anticipate what my relationship with ILs will be like, now in Plan B. I'm trying to work that out in my own mind.

mentally step away from any area where you currently have no immediate reason to wander ... such as the MIL/FIL issue

"what if" ... is a mental trap
... avoid it .... BEST PLAN today ~~~> be respectful and polite to in-laws ... and that's IT

there may be months and months of plan B

NOTHING needs to be said or decided ~by you~ ... at this time

instead, plan a trip!

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Pep

TA: YES! a vent/rant! Nothing I could communicate verbatim.

I agree with FF...I have not even told them yet about my going dark. Last I spoke to MIL I was half dopey and very upset about having recieved the settlement conference notice.

I don't know....MIL seems so totally sincere and we talk for hours. But I feel like I'm the one always initiating the contact. I have asked her about that and she INSISTS that she loves to talk to me, every time, anytime.

Now with complete darkness from her after our last interaction being one in which I was not in a good place...it's just weird. I wonder what FIL is saying...

All that I can do is say my truth...I have said this before and I believe it so strongly that I cannot keep it to myself:

ILs, I have decided to go dark with WH. I will no longer enable WH to avoid the natural consequences of his choices or prolong his inevitable hitting of rock bottom by making his life any easier while he continues to engage in adultery.

This man is a stranger. He is behaving out of selfishness and immaturity, and in doing so, continues to inflict pain on me and the boys. I am concerned that this STRANGER is also taking advantage of your love and compassion for your SON, and I would urge you to consider that possiblity as well.

I firmly beleive that the sooner he feels the pain of his choices, the sooner he will begin to make better ones.

You have said to me that he is "immature" and needs to "grow up." I simply do not believe that he will do that as long as he is living in his childhood home with the protection of his parents.


That is my opinion. Again, coming from a place of protecting me and their grandsons, I feel obligated to call them on what I firmly believe as behavior that is prolonging my suffering and that of their grandchildren.

That's it.

Where the statement above leaves my relationship with ILs is unknown...from my perspective and from theirs. None of the above is disrespectful, nor can it really be argued.

They need to get their heads and hearts in sych, too.

But I'm not going to sit back and not challenge them on it...really...I can't. This is my one last "intervention" before I completely step away. I can't step away without knowing I have said my peace, done all I could, even if it insults them (which I don't think it will...we've had battles about it already)

Does that make sense??

Speaking of planning a trip, back to the DC idea....

Lilsis, I'm mostly a lurker but have been following your story and think you're doing a great job. I'm local to the DC area and would be happy to offer tips/advice or whatever, if you decide to pursue it. I think you wouldn't have any problems at all.

I think you are very wise to get it all out and process it before opening your mouth.

I think by venting and saying everything that is on your mind -- will allow you to pick and choose what is best (and how best) to say what you need to say to them.

yep, makes sense to me. You can not enjoy your quiet time away from all the chaos wondering if you said everything that you wanted to say.

I vote for going to as nice of a hotel as you can afford close by.

The MIL deal -- yep, tricky

Sis, I posted all the names of those helping you so will not feel alone. I understand.

Thank you, Pep. NO, I DO NOT need to go here now...and shouldn't...when I'm feeling good, just getting going on Plan B. It just brings me down.

It will not be months and months of Plan B. I will be forced into Plan D whether I want it or not. By the time it comes, I may want it. I have too much living to do, too much to offer, too much love to give to hoard it all for a man who may be gone forever.

Eventually, I will get on with my life, and another marriage will have been lost to A. Very very sad, but a very possible reality....that grows incrementally more possible with every passing day.

I do not like that feeling, but I have it none the less.

Aside...back to ILs: I think that FIL doesn't see the A as the primary culprit here. I think he sees WH as having some sort of identity crisis, whatever...that the A is a symptom of. So to him...the A is part of a bigger problem, not the other way around. This is a difficulty...he has said before that WH has "so much work to do." Implying that the work will result in clarity with regard to the A, not vice versa.

it does not matter what FIL thinks

Plan B allows YOU THE FREEDOM to stop obsessive thinking

Yea..How about Disney World..I can't get enough of that place...

Washington DC has free entertainment..the Smithsonian...my boys loved those trips....

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Obsessive, huh???

Abso-friggin-lutely!!

On to DC!! I'd be more interested in a little condo or something rather than a hotel...more comfortable for me and the kids, buy cereal, etc...there are some listed in the Mass and 12th area NW. Little studios for about $150/night.

which anti depressant are you on?

Zoloft

that's right, I forgot

seems to be a good fit for you

Haven't tried the condos but we used to stay at those motels that provide free breakfast/including cereal..on the outskirts..and then ride the Metro in..that added to the fun quotient for the boys...the Metro is EASY/ORGANIZED and CLEAN..will take you directly to wherever you want to go and you don't have to worry about parking...

You're doing great Lil Sis and you sound very strong.
As for the IL's...MIL probably feels stuck in the middle of this. For your own well being try not to expect MIL to kick WH out of the home. They've allowed him to stay there for a long time without consequence. That's the reality of the situation. It took me a long time to adjust to the fact that my ex-IL's, as much as they said they loved me, when it all came down to it, they stood by their son. Relationships with the IL's are bound to change and is a consequence of WH's actions. He put you and your MIL in this position by having an A. Just as plan B allows the WH to get a taste of what D will be like...unfortunately there is reality in what you are experiencing with IL's as well. Things will not be the same if WH stays in the A. Relationships can become strained and awkward. At least that was my experience. Acceptance of the fact that you can't control how IL's react to WH will help you stay focused on what you can control. You can only control you and be the best LilSis that you can be. You'll come out of this so much stronger.

On your other thread, awhile back, you mentioned that your son saw WH looking at homes on the internet. It's all speculation, but do you know that he is not prepared to leave IL's if they ask him to?

Back to focusing on Plan B, you are doing well and you have lots of support here. You mentioned building your own support system independent of the IL's (IRL) and that will be most beneficial to you. Keep your chin up!

DC has a great zoo.

I love slowly walking through Arlington. Get off the beaten paths and it’s a very quiet, beautiful and reflective place.

LiLSis, I have never posted on your thread before. I am in Plan B now (five weeks) and my WW has the D started. She is living with my IL’s and BIL who is having his own A with a MOW. I call their place “Infidel Hotel”. Although they say they want to support me, they have been totally enabling of WW in her pursuit of the destruction of our marriage. They have no concept of the difference between support and pity. Mostly when they talk to me it is just about them feeling better. I have stopped communicating with them now as well.

The good news is Plan B really works and you literally feel yourself becoming a stronger more independent person every day. This is all good no matter how things end.

You will do great.


Always do what you are afraid to do.
--Ralph Waldo Emerson (1803-1882)

Come to Texas!! Hang on, checking MapQuest... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> -- guess that's too far too:

Total Est. Time: 16 hours, 53 minutes
Total Est. Distance: 1077.61 miles

I'd love to meet you and your boys IRL and show you how we live in the country of Texas. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I know...the whole IL issue is a loaded one in so many ways. So let's not go there, shall we? I have felt my anxiety level rising today.

Must be that it's cloudy and preparing to snow buckets again. Those sunny days were w o n d e r f u l!

I have a meeting tonight. Tomorrow is my "interview," followed by conferences for both boys, and my support group at night. DS8 is stressing because he thinks that WH won't know that it is a half day tomorrow and he is picking them up. I told DS8 that dad is a grown up and he can figure these things out, and he doesn't need me to tell him what to do. (I said this in a friendly way...)

The boys are supposed to be bringing home their baby rats tomorrow. DS8 has been counting the days. WH got them a huge cage and all the stuff for it, and the boys have it all set up. I can hardly wait..... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

What's a good city to consider the "outskirts" of DC?

http://www.potomacmills.com/static/node752.jsp;jsessionid=awVDl-t-9UbgpplfPe



Check this out. This is a HUGE outlet mall with GREAT BARGAINS. My "young men" and I took a weekend trip here which included shopping, movies, and a metro into DC...while my H was WAYWARD...

When you're ready to talk about IL issue again, I'll share my experience which is similiar to yours.

There's a Marriot Courtyard hotel right across the street from the Dunn Loring/Merrified (VA) metro stop.

Washington Metro has a website so that you can learn where to find their stops.

good city on the outskirts of DC?
BIL lives in Farifax...it's very close.
Alexandria's nice.
if you can stay in Georgetown...it's really cool.
or maybe check out Baltimore...the Harbor is great...has a great aquarium.

I'm familiar with all those places that Nia recommended. Those would be good choices. The Washington Metro wouldn't be available in Baltimore though.

Dear LilSis,

There are so many of us out here, feeling your pain. We cry with you, and pray for you and your dear sons eveyday!
Think of us as your silent army! We don't post all the time, but our hearts are with you in your crusade!
I lost my first marriage to infidelity. I can FEEL what you are going through.
You are capable of achieving(sp?) all you want!
Just beleive!
I think I can, I think I can, I know I can!!!!

God bless you in this holy time of lent, after all, it is the time of forgiveness!

PGA

PGA:

I just came on to mark my time...the third full day of NC.

I went back to read some of the posts from yesterday to get my head back on straight...your post gave me the boost I needed, reminding me of the silent army of people pulling for me and praying for me. Reminding me that yesterday I was ALMOST to "I know I can" and I can get there again.

In a moment of anxiety earlier, I imagined all these strangers...all so hopeful for me and caring for me. It was so comforting.

I am working my way through my Lenten devotional, reading it each morning first thing.

God bless you, too...

Dear LilSis,
We are your "Mosh Pit" to the lord! Holding you up, and praying for you!
Take long DEEP breathes... and again...and again...!
I ate soup tonight, and I thought of you!
No matter what becomes of your marriage, I personally beleive you and those darling boys will overcome, and grow even stronger!
The Lord above "loves" you!

Adore yourself, as we adore you!

PGA

We know how hard this is. We are proud of you, you should be proud of yourself.

Jo

A mosh pit to the Lord! PGA, you know how I love imagery and that's a good one! Wheeee!

Okay, today might be a bit of a challenge and I need some advice.

So here's the set-up: It is WH's day with the boys, meaning ordinarily he would pick up the boys at school and return them at 8. It is a half day. I have conferences scheduled with each teacher, one at 1 and one at 2:30. WH had also promised the boys that they could bring their baby rats home today.

I have not "reminded" WH that it is a half day. DS's are a little worried...I did not bring it up...they did..."Does Dad know it's a half day? Can you call him?" (What does that say about their confidence in him?) I told them that dad's a grown up and he doesn't need me to remind him about everything; if he is late then the school will call him.

I will be at work when the school day ends. I will be letting the front desk know that if any calls come in for me, to ask who is calling and not put any calls from WH through. If the "backdoor" line rings, I will not answer. It is HIS day with the boys, and MY day off.

Theoretically (sp?) WH could have called the schools to find out when the conferences are. Hopefully he has not gone to the trouble, or he has scheduled his own.

My question...tonight when he brings the boys home with the rats, should I tell the boys that he can come in with them to get the rats settled? I could be up in the attic or something...just make myself scarce. I do not even want to see him...I want to be THAT dark.

I know some people in Plan B have contact at kid exchange but that seems to be not quite dark...???

Also...got an email from MIL. Apparently they have been very very busy; days filled to the "brim" is how she described it. Visiting Joshua Treee, etc. Long days. She has been reluctant to call since we are on a three hour time difference and they get home very late...

Hmmm...??? Thoughts?

I was thinking of just being very honest with her. Along the lines of, "I am feeling like I may need to step back from our relationship because I am afraid that I will end up being hurt. Could we talk about that?"

Anyway...off to get ready. I'm feeling pretty good today, reminding myself that this man is NOT my H and I DO NOT want this guy. I do notice a HUGE difference when I have work to get to; some structure to my day. Those days off (Th/Fri) I end up feeling at such loose ends, and so hyper-aware of the fact that WH and I used to take advantage of my flexible schedule and spend time together. Now the time off just feel empty. (Thus the need to do something NEW, right??)

Thanks, everyone.

LilSis, first I wanted to say your wonderful your elegant and your an inspiration.

First thought to throw out is does Plan B MIL make sense to anyone? Meaning if you remove yourself from your relationship with MIL because of her sons action, she will get upset with you for a bit but more upset with HIM because he is ruining her relationship with her grandchildren. I know you have a very deep and attached relationship with MIL but you are in PLAN B and she is part of the overall world that your PLAN B'ing just a thought.

Second you should tell the school that WH needs to schedule separate sessions and YOU do not do combined parent sessions. My daughters school understands and knows that the teacher has to contact both parent and schedule two conferences.

Remember your WH will push boundaries he will try and make you break contact. Just go to your room and shut the door, tell the boys dad has 10 minutes in the house then he has to leave. and out the oven timer on when you go upstairs so it dings when its time for their father to leave

Why can't WH keep the rats? The boys can have pets at both locations. RT would really get creeped out. Why should you have ALL responsibilities, they are HIS children, too. The more inconveniences you throw in his path, the better.

I wouldn't worry about the conferences, he probably is relieved he hasn't heard from you regarding this and will just "forget".

Keep planning a trip.....puts something great in YOUR path, it is fun to plan and anticipate.

Think back to Pep's PRAYER..keep that uppermost in your mind..he needs to SUFFER..SCRAPE THE BOTTOM OF THE BARREL..SUFFER THE CONSEQUENCES OF HIS ACTIONS..coming into the house meets an EN of his..DOMESTIC SUPPORT..WH thinking:" I can always come back to THIS if I need to..my family is just fine and dandy without me..or whatever.." I SAY THAT HE SHOULD ABSOLUTELY NOT BE ALLOWED IN THE HOUSE...

I agree with Mimi.

I agree with Mimi..... he should not be allowed to come in the house....filling an emotional need

Sis - You are doing great....

when was it decided that the rats will be coming home today?
i must have missed that.
do YOU want them there? only take them in if you REALLY wan that responsibility....and i agree w/ mimi....WH can not come in the house.

oh, and good morning.

Also, wouldn't the previous rat, new rats and dog (not to mention adult male) all help MIL reach her limit....who wants all those extra smelly animals in their house. I know I wouldn't. I like the animals we as a family picked out, not a constant influx of creepy small mammals that really do smell. I bet MIL will give him the "get rid of the animals or get out" speech. Let him bring the rats to MIL house. He will also get to hear from his kids "when can we come over to see the rats". More obstacles in the path of singlehood.

Agree, WH should not be allowed into your home with or without rats.

I think the baby rats have already been agreed on.
It would really disappoint the boys to reverse this decision.

I also agree with Mimi. Let him miss the comfort of the home/family environment.

i figured i must have missed or forgotten that the rats have been agreed on......i agree that she shouldn't REVERSE the decision now.....if the boys have their hearts set on it and she trully does not mind the rats.
i still think WH should stay out of the house.....is there a lot to set up, LS?

Neak here -

I like baby rats just fine. I think you'll have fun with them.

Big ratty WS's are not so fine. They are not housebroken, and need to be kept outside.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

As to MIL, you should communicate with her by phone and explain Plan B to her in simple terms.
1. You are preserving your love for your H,
2. interaction with him is so very hurtful to you now
3. You want your H to come home and your marriage to recover but that cannot happen until WH breaks off all contact with RT
4. You sincerely thank her for her support and love and respectfully request that she not talk to you of WH and should not report on you to WH.
5. You will continue to support her role as the grandmother to your children.


All blessings,
Eaglesoar

change the locks on the house
change the garage door code [color:"red"] PLAN B means NO ENTRY [/color]

hang garlic at the door <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

yeah...Baltimore would mean you would have to drive to DC....it's about 45 mins. i think.
I just thought i'd mention it as an alternative....or maybe something to do for a day.....but DC will keep you plenty busy.
I prefer Baltimore during baseball season.

oh, and remember....garlic on the door! (i loved that one)

Okay...apparently the boys were picked up from school without incident...at least I didn't get a call.

Went to the first conference...no WH, and he wasn't on the posted list of conferences.

Which means he either didn't think to call, didn't want to come, or is honoring my request for NC in a big way. Somehow, he will end up blaming ME for the fact that HE wasn't there. Sounds about right, doncha think?

Okay, NO entry for WH tonight (that's what I thought). I don't think he'll push it...I suspect he got the message loud and clear if he didn't check in about conferences.

Yes...I am NOT AT ALL thrilled about the baby rats, but the kids are sooooo excited, there was no way I could refuse them. WH bought a huge cage and all the stuff for it (already set up), so I have no investment. The boys will be totally responsible for the care, feeding and cleaning up after the rats.

MIL has a soft spot for rats, too. The reason WH first got a rat was back in college...he was coming home for summer break and the rats in the psych lab were facing certain death, so WH "rescued" them. MIL was not thrilled either at first, but eventually got attached...I imagine after raising three boys she'd seen her fair share of critters.

cc1 is right...the critters MIL can deal with...the adult male WH is the problem. Yucky, smelly, infested with turds.

My intermediary checked in today...WH has had no contact with her either.

I will call tomorrow about getting the locks changed. They come the same day and just adjust the tumblers. No code on my 100-year-old garage doors, I do it the old-fashioned way. Nothing in there that he'd want, anyway. He already took his bike.

eaglesoar: Sounds pretty much like what I had planned to say to MIL in terms of explaining my current sitch. I am also going to send her a copy of the PBL. What any of it means for our relationship is a little up in the air. I think I will have to feel my way through it a bit. Go with my heart. I got all my venting out of my system on here yesterday. Thanks, all.

After the shortest "interview" in history, I accepted the new .5 FTE position. I told her I could start whenever she is ready to sit down so we can come up with a workplan. It's a brand new program, so much of it is up in the air and we'll figure it out together, by the seat of our pants.

Off to conference number 2.

Pep! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" /> ROFL!!

I agree with everyone--the "big rat" stays out. Plan B means that he has to live with the consequences of his choices...remember? I realize it will mean you have to set up the baby rats, but that's life with your boys.

Regarding your MIL, I have my own experience to share with you. My exH was/is a serial cheater; he does not "count" it as infidelity if it's only cybersex with a stranger! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> When we were in the midst of our D, he disappeared for months and told me he was with his mom...told his mom he was moving back with me! Well...one day she called and said, "Do you know where WH is?" and I just burst forth crying and told her everything that was happening in our M...and would she PLEASE help me save it by not condoning this behavior? Her response FLOORED ME: "Honey, I don't think it's right, but he's my son and blood is thicker than water." Needless to say, I disagreed and was very upset with her. BUT, she and I loved each other and I thought of her more as my mother than my own actual mother. At first, I think she did not believe that her opinion would mean much to WH, but as time went by, she did express her anger with his choices and disagreement with his behavior, and it DID impact him,

...so years later (after the D was final) she said to me, "I know we're not related anymore, but you were a good DIL and I loved you. Could we choose to be friends rather than being related through blood?"

LilSis, your MIL may react like my MIL. She may be afraid that she'll lose her son. She may think that what she says doesn't make any difference. But that doesn't mean she won't still love you and be hurt over the prospect of losing you because her son is being a heiney. You need to do what you need to do, regardless of her. And we pray...I pray...that she has the courage to do the right thing and not enable her son. But if she doesn't...don't think it's because of YOU. It's most likely because of her.

Your faithful friend,



CJ

LilSis: ...the adult male WH is the problem. Yucky, smelly, infested with turds.

You Betcha!!!!
ROFL

PGA

Congratulations on the new position !!!

sis

i think it's really important for your H not tobe allowed in the house.....

you see, that meets his need for "family" even if you aren't there or if you are in another room....he still gets the comfort of home and sharing it with his children

DON'T give him any comforts.....DON'T meet any of his needs

from all of my reading and considering what i think i should have done differently in my plan B.... by the time i found this site, my H was already living with the OW and had already "weaned himself from needing me and from the good feelings our home brought to him"....so my plan B was not effective

i think that going into plan B when they are STILL very involved with you and the life they are thinking of leaving is SO important.....these things are still meeting MANY of their needs

and to take EVERYTHING that you can away ALL AT ONCE leaves them feeling lost...........don't let him wean himself away gradually....

they need to FEEL the PAIN of losing what they NEED in order for them to be motivated to make changes

i know that it would be easier for your children.....and i know that it feels mean.....

for me it even gave me a feeling that he was still my H to have him in the house to fix something or pick up the dogs....even if i wasn't home

BUT that let him wean himself gradually away...little by little

kinds like that saying.....no pain, no gain

it goes for both of you

ps

i would advise keeping your relationship with MIL on good terms! It can only HELP!

Lil Sis, thinking about you tonight and your new little house guests. How'd it go? You okay?

The remainder of the day went without incident. WH was a no-show at the second P/T conference as well...no surprise.

I had my support group tonight, and arrived home about a half hour before the 8:30 expected return time. Left a light on in the kitchen and in the living room, and went up to my bedroom and just listened to the radio peacefully in the dark waiting for them to arrive. They were about 20 minutes late. I stayed upstairs, but I guess WH stepped in to help them carry in their stuff (including the rats, who are very cute, BTW), but he left promptly.

No stalling, no trying to see me, no taking out the garbage or recycling. He walked right past it.

I held the baby rats while the boys arranged all the rat toys just so in their monster sized cage. It has three floors, and of course each floor has to have a toy, and the boys had to negotiate where everything went, fill up their little water bottle, give them food. The little rats snuggled right into the crook of my arm while the boys did their thing.

I couldn't resist asking DS11 if dad mentioned anything about his leaving for Pheonix. DS11 said that dad said, "There's a chance I might not see you" presumably before he goes.

That might be tricky, as he is working Fri/Sat/Sun and leaves on Monday. I suppose having the boys for that extra two hours today since it was a half day makes up for not seeing them for over two weeks.

So chalk up the end of day four of being dark. Still feels easier than Plan A...more restful, more peaceful, less painful...but it is a challenge to switch gears, to stop thinking of WH, etc.

I keep focusing--very consciously--on the fact that that stranger is not my H.

I can see how Plan B will get easier with time. I enjoy focusing on myself, on the boys, on reading my devotionals, on being quiet and still. I enjoy focusing my energy on things that are positive and uplifting, as opposed to expending all my energy on WH, just to get shot down.

Remind me of this tomorrow and Friday, when I'm off work and will be at loose ends. Yuck.

CJ: Thank you for sharing your MIL experience and reminding me that whatever her decision, it is not a reflection on me (even though I will still probably experience it that way...)

I'm still looking up DC stuff. I want to find a place on the Metro...not too far out.

Thanks for your prayers, everyone.

Thanks for checking eav and meggy.

I guess just stepping in to unload kid stuff was okay....?

When I think about it, though, he was doing very little besides that, anyway. I did such a crappy job...by the time I started Plan A it was sooo late. Probably too late. He has weaned himself away...he's been gone for eight months.

The little house guests are snug in their toilet paper roll. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

no lil sis...your plan A met his needs

his time at the house met needs

knowing that you were still THERE...loving him and wanting him back met his needs

you have no idea how much this creeps me out

I can stand over a man, and use my bare hands to contain his eviscerating wound ... but little mice creep me out <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

LilSis:

I'm glad the evening interaction went well.

I thought it could have been a little messy, and in TRUE PLAN B, you are not supposed to see the WH. And if you did, watch out! So, relax. The details of plan B start to work themselves out. And it is easier to avoid WH in the future.


On to other things:

Washington DC and the Metro. Try to get a hotel on the RED Line Metro. May cost a little more. But the National Zoo is on the RED line and the Smithsonian museums on the National Mall are just off it as well. Makes it easier to get around with out transferring stations. However, they just closed the American History Museum for extensive renovations and it will not reopen till summer 2008.

If you want something a little funkier, i.e., a little more liberal, try to find something in Tacoma Park (I'm sorry, the Peoples Republic of Tacoma Park...) It's also on the RED Line, just on the East Branch, not the West. The Red line starts in the MD suburbs, goes downtown, and then goes back out to the suburbs. It's the Tacoma station, in DC, and the Silver Spring station, in MD. Be careful, the neighborhoods can change from block to block.

And as weird as it might sound, look for hotels around Reagan National Airport and the Pentagon in Virginia. Lots of Hotels,that cater to business travelers, because of the the Pentagon, but that usually means good weekend rates, but close to Metro YELLOW & BLUE Lines, and downtown, and the boys will stare out the window for hours at the airplanes coming and going. Plus, if you are several stories up, you get to see the Arlington National Cemetary, the mall and a number of the monuments from your window. Ask for a river-view room. And the parking is usually free for hotel guests.

It's about a 11 hour drive from Michigan. BTDT.

Amazing place, DC. The boys will see cool things, but not truly appreciate it, and you never get enough time to read the placards....

I still can't walk down the Vietnam Veterans Memorial without getting misty...Find an unkle, aunt, or just a soldier's name to take a pencil shading with you... "You are not Forgotten"...

And to sit on the West Front stairs of the Capitol is one of the most amazing scenes in Washington. You can look past the Washington Monument to the Lincoln to Arlington House. Go West, Young Man! And the great frontier is spread out from there.

LG>>>>> getting a little sentimental at this late hour....

RE: last night. Actually, there was NO interaction between us. I stayed upstairs until I saw him pull out of the driveway. Didn't see him at all. That's my plan. I want to be completely, totally dark. He's accomodating me quite nicely. (a little too well)

Excellent info, LG! That is so helpful. I forgot you are in MD. 11 hours. That's a one-dayer. We can leave at o'dark-thirty. Cool.

Thank you so much for the hotel advice. I typically by-pass the "airport" hotels as I scroll thru the lists because I have this image of....I don't know...just not nice. And I like the idea of being on the MD side as it's just that much closer. Unfortunately, we will likely be there mid-week. WH will have the boys the weekend of 3/30, so we couldn't leave until Monday at the earliest.

How many days would you suggest? I was thinking maybe three...?? By then the boys and I will probably be at each other's throats, once you add in two days in the car.

I'm so bummed to learn the American History Museum is closed! That would be my favorite. I love history.

I am getting excited about this. I would feel like I had really accomplished something if I'm able to pull it off. I'm fine with the driving...the only thing that makes me nervous is being in a hotel alone with the boys. You just hear scary stories. In terms of justifying the expense, I can look at it as a treat to myself and the boys in celebration of my new job.

Okay...today I'm going to clean my house and make plans for DC.

LG: do you still believe?

Good Morning!

Planning a vacation is a good idea.
I could use your help in figuring out what to do in the midwest.
how far are you from Detroit?
and....is there anything to do in the area?
My son has a Lacrosse tornament there next month and i was thinking about going...just to see something new.

LilSis:

Travel time? My folks leave from south of Detroit, at about 7:00 am, have a leisurely meal in Breezewood, PA and arrive around 6:00 to 6:30.
I'm about 1.5 hours east of DC, and you are about 3 hours West of Detroit.

Three days? with travel days on both sides? That works well.

As for which area is closer? MD or VA? Depends on where you are at. Pentagon/Crystal City is closer to downtown and the Mall then most places on the RED Line. And there is alot of space on the Mall. It's well over a mile and a half from the Capitol to the Lincoln Monument. Remember that with DS8 legs. The Tourmobile Bus works well to get from place to place, as the walks can be far between attractions.

Things to do with the boys? Tour the Mint, watch them print money, they would like THAT!, Natural History Museum is open, and Air and Space. Others may be a little ssllloowww for the young'ens. The National Zoo is on the RED Line, and you could see the Panda's. Walk around the Rotunda of the Capitol if you can, even the boys will find it inspiring, and I believe with Security Concerns, future opportunities to do it will be restricted. The White House? You need a pass from your Congressperson (go to thier website), and the wait can take forever. But cool anyway...

Do I believe? Yes.

LG

My boys loved the American History Museum with the old TRAINS and CARS and ..also there's the THE NATIONAL PORTRAIT GALLERY..which has been renovated I hear...a wonderful trip for the spring with the CHERRY BLOSSOMS...Also, you can get on and off the Metro to get from place to place..that's also fun for KNUCKLEHEADS...

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Mimi:

About this:



?????

I have had friends, who bought tickets for the Metro and just rode from one end to the other. Just for the ride. But we liked trains.

LG

nia: I'm three hours from Detroit...but the Mr and Mrs W are there. They'd probably have much better advice, I know nothing. You could check out a Tiger game or go to Greektown...?? What kind of stuff would you be interested in? Shopping, museums, outdoorsy stuff? I imagine you will be in one of the suburbs?

Honestly, I prefer the west side of the state and have little reason to venture over to the east side unless it's work-related. I'll be there for a conference end of this month...I haven't been downtown in a couple of years and I know things have changed lots.

Keep in mind that April is not Michigan's best month...highly unpredictable. Could be 70, could be 30. Ya never know.

Once I find a place to stay in DC, the boys and I can work together to develop an intinerary. I'll let them do most of the picking. That should be fun. One of my co-workers spends lots of time in DC so I plan to ask her for advice, too. She also has two boys.

KNUCKLEHEADS..is what we call "OUR BOYS"...oops..I assumed that EVERYONE would know that this is used VERRRRY "LOVINGLY"...to describe "BOYS" as opposed to "SWEET LITTLE GIRLS" which I have not had the privilege of rearing...no girly, girl stuff in my parenting experience...

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Now I know what I wanted to say...

KNUCKLEHEADS= OUR TERM OF ENDEARMENT for " our rough and tough little boys"

My DS18 went to DC last Feb. to the Youth Leadership Forum and loved it there. His first comment was "things here are really old."

Being from Washington "AC" (Above California) he was not used to the "old" buildings of the East.

He loved Arlington, the Naval Academy, the Library of Congress and the Smithsonsian, but was very disappointed that they didn't get time to see Indiana Jones' fedora.

Oh well...

I'm sure you and your boys will have a great time!

LS,


Congratulations, with all your positive, pro-logical, pro-active forward advancements.


Your winding down nicely.


He has proven he is not worthy of you.


Lost you and the kids because he did not respect you.


He is his own nemesis.


Pride comes before the fall.


What a fall there is to come.


Get out of the way.


Shunning, punishing, stonewalling you for his faults is crass, weak, lame. How can you really admire someone like that?


It's him that needs pull himself up by his own bootstraps, step up to the plate and earn your respect back. You don't accept crumbs.



You are deeply crestfallen. He made his choices. He has a bad attitude.



You are not him. You are not accountable. You made better, right, good choices.


He has caused immeasurable harm. The repercussions are long lasting.


Therefore you cannot participate or be associated. Continue giving basic respect yes and bare bones neccessary contact. Business at hand is good enough...


You have lost confidence.



Your striving for a better future with your children.



He perfers to sow his wild oats. That's what he is all about. Then that's what he is all about.


So be it. It is his right. Your right to dissapprove. Accept it. But not with you. Whatever applies right back to him. You have self respect& dignity.



You have much better things to do and teach your children as you are...



What is he really teaching his kids about manhood, service hood and life??? The loser program... Not amusing. On that program track they never do see the bigger picture.



Since your on your own now. Hope you can take in a good self defense class at some point down the road.



A great de-stess release program. Wonderful to release all the pent up negative frustrations enegeries, learning good self control of our emotions, moral character building. Fantasticly, great for the kids.


Super family bonding activity.



Nice going your getting a break! You deserve it! Enjoy your trip!