Marriage Builders
Having been looking at some of the threads here I thought it would be therapuetic for me to put into words the story of how I came to find myself on this site and to give everyone the details of my marriage breakdown. You will have to bear with me though as I suffer with carpal tunnel syndrome so cannot type too much at a time so I will have to write in installments!

It all started on Oct 17th last year, my H had been distant although at the time I hadn't really noticed as he has a very busy business and works all hours. Something made me ask him if he was still in love with me and if not I needed to know. He couldn't answer me and for the next couple of days we acted as if the question had never come up. Finally in the early hours of Oct 21st we were in bed (can't remember what we were talking about but it can't have been good!) when he finally said "I don't love you anymore and I haven't for years!".

Although I must have realised something was wrong, I had not thought that he had really fallen fell out of love with me as we hadn't had any major bust ups just the usual ups and downs of running a family, a home, a business and trying to fit everything into our lives but then thats all it takes isn't it? We stayed up most of the night talking about how we had grown apart and of course I asked him if there was anyone else which he strenuously denied. I believed him as I always knew where he was and if he wasn't at work then he was at home with me and our DD's.

By the end of the night (well morning!) we had decided to work on our marriage as we had just celebrated our 16th anniversary and our DD's happiness was paramount to both of us. His revelation made me realise what I had to lose and I spent the next 3 weeks being the best wife I could be as I knew that I had not always been perfect but then neither had he! Unfortunately though, I soon realised that it was all one sided and my efforts were not appreciated or reciprocated. Finally, 3 weeks exactly after he dropped his bombshell, he went out with a friend and didn't come home til 5am! I got up and asked where he had been but he was defensive and drunk so I left it. He didn't come to bed and fell asleep in our lounge. I crept in there at 9am and "borrowed" his phone where I discovered that he had placed a call to someone within minutes of getting home and that this was a female who I had never heard of.

I asked him who it was and got the "it's just a friend, I can't remember calling her" BS, but now that I had an idea there was someone else and he knew I wouldn't let it drop, he left that night after telling out DD's that he no longer loved mummy anymore but would always be there for them. He walked out with them running and screaming in the street behind him, shouting "Daddy, please don't go!" but he just carried on. I would never had believed that he could be so heartless!

I don't know how we got through that night I just remember telling our DD's that everything would be alright and that mummy will never leave. My 7yr old drew a picture of the 3 of us standing and crying outside our house while her dad stood in the distance with a smile on his face, this was obviously how she saw things and it broke my heart.

I immediately went into counselling with a highly recommended MC who had saved a relatives marriage, and also went to my GP who prescibed AD's and something to help me sleep but I was a mess for a long time.

During the first couple of weeks WH and I spoke on a few occassions but he was adamant there was nobody else involved and he wasn't sure if this was the end of our marriage or not. Eventually though he did tell me that he was seeing someone but there was nothing in it and it hadn't been going on during our marriage.

Christmas came and went in a blur but I tried to put on a brave face for our DD's and then New Year happened. My WH had our DD's at his mothers house where he was staying and called to say he would be dropping them off earlier than arranged. My womens intuition told me it was so he could spend NY eve with "her" so I confronted him and he admitted it and then had the gall to say that if I wanted he would take our DD's with him to meet the OW! I told him that would never happen and after that night our so far semi-friendly interactions stopped because I knew I needed to take a step back to save my own sanity!

In the meantime I carried on with counselling working to how I would improve myself for me as I no longer believed we would save our marriage. Thanks to my wonderful counsellor and doctor, I came out of the depression and got on with my life, making plans for the future and sorting out a social life. During this time I continued to have no contact with WH.

I have to stop now, wrists are aching! Will post again soon. Thx for your patience.
Posted By: jmwc95 Re: My story of how I came to MB - 06/13/07 09:09 PM
Who is OW and who knows about his affair? Also, are you getting financial support from him?
Posted By: womanoffaith5 Re: My story of how I came to MB - 06/13/07 10:31 PM
I am anxious to hear more.
God bless you! You have been through the fire.
Posted By: tarnsy Re: My story of how I came to MB - 06/14/07 08:58 AM
Thx for your comments jmwc95 and wof5. I will endeavour to answer all questions as I carry on my story but if there is anything you wish to know please ask.

In the last conversation I had with WH it came out that he had met OW the previous June through work and that an email and tm affair had begun then although of course to WH it was just on a "as friends" basis. It also transpired that he had been out with OW on at least 1 other occassion whilst he was still at home but still he continued to swear on our childrens lives that he hadn't started the relationship till after he left home. This is one of the things that I find hard to forgive, how could he swear on the most precious things in our life knowing he was lying!

Anyway, I finally accepted an invitation to go out with a group of friends into the local town to go clubbing (something I hadn't done for a while) whilst DD's were with their dad. I had a wonderful night, seeing people I hadn;t since before DD and of course I had been on the infidelity diet and had lost loads of weight so I got compliments by the bucket load and I could feel my confidence coming back. Whilst I was out I received a tm from WH asking if I was home yet!? My friends all thought he was uncomfortable with me being out having a good time whereas before I had been home and not a problem. I replied that I was still out and having a great time thx and he followed that with a message saying he was glad I was enjoying myself but to be careful.

This was the first time he had shown any concern over my wellbeing for a long time and I thought it was a good sign that maybe he wasn't as hard hearted as he was pretending to be.

I'll just say at this point that I hadn't found MB then and didn't for many months, I wish I had but I'm here now. So, a couple of days later, WH dropped off our DD's and asked to come in for a chat. I was apprehensive but decided to let him in and he told me that he had not been able to sleep when I had been out and that he didn't like the feelings and thoughts that my enjoying myself had led him to have and he now realised some of what he had put me through! That's not all, he also said that I had blossomed since he had left, the grass hadn't turned out to be greener and that although he had thought he might be in love with OW he wasn't!

Of course this was good to hear but he was still in a relationship with her and wasn't ready to end it and I wasn't sure if it was just a case of "I don't want you but I don't want anyone else to have you". I told him that I had proved to myself that I could live without him and it was unfair to lay this on me just as I'm getting my life together. He agreed he wasn't being fair and we decided to carry on as we were but with more contact and to try to be friends.

So, for the next few weeks instead of just dropping off DD's he would come in to talk about everyday things or to do stuff around the house and of course the kids were pleased that mummy and daddy were getting on again. He carried on tm me whenever I went out to ask when I would be home or to tell me he couldn't sleep but all the while still seeing OW. During this time I decorated my bedroom, worked on the house and made sure that everything was perfect whenever he was coming round (including myself!) and he often said that he missed the normality of being part of a family and how he liked the changes I'm made to myself and the home.

I knew that we were on unstable ground and that I couldn't take his words too seriously but it was hard not to get my hopes up that we could put this all behind us and work on our M. My counsellor said that I was doing everything right and that he didn't sound like a man who had definitely decided to end his marriage so she advised me to carry on but not to pressure him.

I have to take a break now but will be back later.
Posted By: tarnsy Re: My story of how I came to MB - 06/14/07 12:13 PM
Our relationship continued to get better until it got to the point where we were flirting with each other whenever we were in contact and our emails started to get a bit saucy! He came round one sunday to put up a trampoline for our DD's and when he had finished we went into the kitchen where he pulled me into his arms and we kissed passionately.

For the next few weeks we couldn't keep our hands off each other. We both said that we felt like teenagers again and WH obviously wanted SF and so did I but I told him I didn't want to be the other woman in his life as he was still seeing her (with his families knowledge). WH said that he knew he had to make some decisions and to give him some time to think about.

Eventually SF did take place and I know not everyone agrees with this but he is my H not OW's so was I doing anything wrong. I certainly didn't feel guilty about it afterwards! A few days later he was looking after our DD's at my home when I was going out and it was then that he said that he regretted what had happened and thought that if we both had counselling and made some changes that we could make a go of our marriage. I was beyond happy and it was the icing on the cake when he decided to stay for the weekend as it was his weekend to have our DD's and he had nowhere to take then as his mother decided to go away for a week and lock him out, but that's another story!

During the weekend we spoke lots about the changes that we would need to make and about the future we could have together as a family and it was decided that on monday he would tell OW their A was over.

This he did but it soon became apparrent it was affecting him more than he thought it would. Now I know he was in W and it was at this point that I found MB and thank God I did! For the next few days we only had email contact and he would tell me how terrible he felt and he was back to no longer knowing what he wanted. I tried to be supportive and explained that his feelings were normal and likened it to an a addiction that he needed to stop cold turkey but to no avail. About 10 days after ending the A, my daughter tried to phone him but when he is in the village where OW lives the call cannot be connected and this was the message she got, so we knew he was with her.

I immediately emailed him saying that I knew where he had been and assumed that he had made his decision and that I hoped they would be very happy together!

WH emailed me 1st thing the next day and said I had obviously made my own mind up about things before speaking to him and that this was one of many reasons, (I assume for choosing her). WH also said that I "reeled him in good and proper and although I don't blame you 100% you knew what you were doing". Well, I was lost for words at first but then I got angry. He was obviously laying the blame at my feet but it definitely takes two to tango. WH also said we should have been strong enough to resist the temptation! I replied that I certainly hadn't set out to seduce him and that if he hadn't come to me telling me about his relationship and subsequent feelings I wouldn't have even considered a reconciliation. And as for saying that we should have been able to resist temptation I told him that he should have told himself and OW this before they started their A!

Lots of other stuff was said and when I replied I went through it point by point asking questions, making observations and stating things from my perspective. He has promised to answer each point but still has not 6 days later.

Well that's where I'm at now, in my email I told him that I was still willing to work on our marriage and that I was sure we could get over this so for now the ball is in his court.

Just to add that during all this WH has left all his belongings including clothes here despite me asking him to take them on several occasions, has paid all our bills and in his last email stated that it was too expensive and depressing to think about getting a divorce. All our friends and family know of the A but I think that he has told his family that he and OW didn't start seeing each other till after we separated. I have only seen my IL's once but my FIL is coming round soon to build a wall and I shall tell him the truth then. As for OW's family, she is divorced, her mother lives miles away and all I know about her is her name so I don't know who I can expose to on her side.

Well, this has turned out longer than I thought despite me just giving out the most memorable details (some of it seems like a distant nightmare now) but I would appreciate any comments and will amswer any questions on things I may have missed out.

Thanks for listening

tarnsy
Posted By: tarnsy Re: My story of how I came to MB - 06/14/07 03:52 PM
Forgot to add that during his last drop off he talked about how we would have to talk about finances and that the fact that I won't let DD's meet OW needed to change. I reiterated that this would not happen and he didn't argue the point further. WH also restated that he wanted to be friends but I replied that he could have all of me, none of me but not just a part of me. He said OK!!

Would this be a good time to plan B although I'm not sure I'm ready or should I go back to plan A. I'm pretty sure that he is getting pressure from OW to meet our DD's so would it be a good idea to let her continue pushing the matter and therefore LB'ing while I continue to be a shelter from the storm?

Your thoughts pls
Posted By: hopeandpray Re: My story of how I came to MB - 06/14/07 04:01 PM
tanrsy,

Excellent interaction. Stick to your boundaries regarding introduction of OW. She is pushing WH to make this "legitimate" and you make it clear that legitimizing an adulterous affair that is destroying marriages and hurting children will NEVER be okay.

Stand strong.
Posted By: womanoffaith5 Re: My story of how I came to MB - 06/14/07 04:02 PM
wow
hopefully some of the other Plan B experts will chime in soon.
It does sound like you are ready for plan B at this point.
You certainly have done everything right up to this point!
Are you able to arrange for a telephone session with the Harleys?

the only other thing I can add - just be sure to maintain your calm, mature attitude. When he says "we need to talk finances" reply "I will only discuss marriage reconciliation. I do not discuss divroce."

That part about how you reeled him in good - I KNOW that those words came straight from the OW! She has read the book on stupid things to say.
Posted By: womanoffaith5 Re: My story of how I came to MB - 06/14/07 04:16 PM
Quote
All our friends and family know of the A but I think that he has told his family that he and OW didn't start seeing each other till after we separated.


I suspect that they all know better. the timing is just too close. They don't wnat to say anything to you - but they know better.

I am amazed at how well you have done, even before you came here.

I am trying to recall some of your details - your WH currently lives with his Mom? You mention that she left for a week and locked him out. What is that all about?

Who do you have on your support team?

Do you live in th UK?
Posted By: jmwc95 Re: My story of how I came to MB - 06/14/07 04:53 PM
I would do some investigative work to find OW's family and definitely expose to them. Then I would speak with an attorney (because I have no clue about the legal system in the UK), see if you can get a legal separation where he is legally obligated to give you money, and then go to plan B and cut off all contact with him. I expect that he will feel even worse than when he ended it with OW, and he will be back soon after.
Posted By: tarnsy Re: My story of how I came to MB - 06/14/07 05:39 PM
H&P, I definitely will be sticking to my guns about the OW meeting DD's, it will be over my dead body and now that my eldest DD knows that her father and OW have been seeing each other longer than he had said she doesn't want to meet her! And I told WH this.

Thx for your comments WOF5, plan B is definitely worth some serious consideration. As for contacting the Harleys, I don't know if this is possible as I am in the UK and my finances are stretched to the limit at the mo as have just paid out loads of ££££ for DD's school trip!

As for my MIL kicking WH out of the house for a week this was supposedly b/c she thought the house would be more secure if she deadbolted the door before leaving and so leaving him unable to get in! Why she couldn't just leave him the other key I don't know! My opinion on why she did this (also WH's opinion) is that she didn't want our DD's to mess up her spotless house whilst she was not there! It is my belief (and many others) that she suffers from OCD as she really is over the top on cleanliness and once even made her son take his shoes off before walking up the garden path!!!

My support team consists of my parents, DD's, a few close friends and a couple of relatives. I haven't seen my counsellor for 3 months but she is on the end of a phone if I need her.

JMWC95, I have put her name in a search engine and came up with nothing. I know what she does for a living but not where and apart from asking WH I don't know how to find out anything about her. I have seen a solicitor back in Feb when I was sure I wanted a divorce and she said I could get him for adultery. I have to contact her next week anyway so I will ask then about legal separation.

Thx everyone for your kind words and support, it's good to know that people care especially strangers!
Posted By: jmwc95 Re: My story of how I came to MB - 06/14/07 06:22 PM
Quote
JMWC95, I have put her name in a search engine and came up with nothing. I know what she does for a living but not where and apart from asking WH I don't know how to find out anything about her. I have seen a solicitor back in Feb when I was sure I wanted a divorce and she said I could get him for adultery. I have to contact her next week anyway so I will ask then about legal separation.

There are "ways" of finding these things if you are determined enough or willing to pay a little. This is your marriage and family we are talking about. Consider it an investment.
Posted By: womanoffaith5 Re: My story of how I came to MB - 06/14/07 06:33 PM
I will be leaving work early today, so I won't be able to check in with you again until tomorrow, but I wanted to share a few things that may help.
1. be sure to read Surviving An Affair (if you haven't all ready). it is SO helpful to read a book that covers all the stuff you are going though. It helped me a lot to be able to just sit and read and say "Ok, other people have been through it and survived, I will too"

2. Your WH's A will not last. period. I know that at times you feel a certain panic, and say "maybe this is the one A that will last. This one is different." But your WH is no different. And his OW is no different. she is doing everything she can to hold onto him now. Sit back, relax, and watch the whole thing unfold. she has followed the exact script. But he has all ready admitted that he misses his family! He misses how much easier it was when he had a home, a wife, two kids who were not mad at him. His life is way too complicated right now - and it will not get any easier. You need to be the shining light. The mature one, who doesn't yell or scream, doesn't make demands. You will continue to say "I love you, I believe in you, we can have a great marriage, but first you have to get rid of OW. When she is gone, please let me know, so we can start building a better M." Do not say bad things about OW - do not call her names. Just continue to be the only calm person in this whole ugly mess.

In some ways, it is good that he has slipped back into the fog, and he is really going through the whole A experience. He needs to be able to fianlly see OW for what she is. It would be good for him to see all her faults - all her warts. That way, he can never say "I wonder what my life would have been like with her" He is seeing right now what it would be like. Let him have the full picture.

His A will not last. The important question for you is - can you hang on? Can you hold onto your love for him long enough?
Posted By: tarnsy Re: My story of how I came to MB - 06/15/07 04:16 PM
WOF5, I will be ordering SAA next week when money has cleared at the bank and I'm sure it will help, so many other people here have recommended it so it must be good!

It does seem strange that all these A's are the same, I have read lots of similar stories on this board about the stupid things that come out of WS's mouths and how they all act the same.

WH life is definitely much more complicated now and he likes routine in his life so I don't know how long he'll be able to do all this running around between 3 women (if you include his mother!) trying to keep everyone happy. His mother is not the sort of person to keep her mouth shut if something, however minor, upsets her and she can be very demanding. WH has said that OW is not happy that she is not allowed to meet our DD's so hopefully she is making a fuss about this (poor c*w). Meanwhile, I shall be calm and serene and make the family home an inviting place to be.

As for how long I can hold onto my love for him, well, it shows no sign of abating yet and I can't envisage not loving him but who knows what the future holds, I suppose it depends how long this goes on for and how many times my heart can stand being broken. I can only say that I never realised how much I truly loved him until this as I never thought I could forgive an A. I have surprised myself!

WH came by this morning to drop off some money for DD's school trip and the first thing he said was "Oh, have you been sunbathing?", this is not something he would normally hav noticed. He gave me the money and I told him how much I appreciated it and we said goodbye. Within 5 seconds of me closing the door, he knocked again, this time to confirm the time he was coming to pick up DD for her trip to France. We said goodbye again and as he was halfway down the path he turned back and said "just to let you know it's all kicked off at my mums". Of course I asked him to explain so he spent the next few minutes outlining what had happened before saying that he has to go as he is really busy and he will tell me the rest tomorrow.
Posted By: Observing Re: My story of how I came to MB - 06/15/07 05:02 PM
Tarnsy,

You have done an incredible job!

Have you tried inserting a vehicle tracking device (costs less than a PI) in your husband's car? This is how you can find out where the OW lives. Once you have her address, you may get better results when searching her name online. With more information, you can EXPOSE the affair, making the fantasy less desirable for your husband.
Posted By: tarnsy Re: My story of how I came to MB - 06/15/07 05:52 PM
Thx for your suggestion Observing but I don't think this will be possible as WH drives a company car that he shares with his brother and as it is only ever outside my house when he collects DD's I don't have access to it.

I don't see how I can find out anything about OW/OW's family without asking WH! I don't have a car so can't drive to village where she lives and I don't know anyone apart from WH and IL's who know her!
Posted By: jmwc95 Re: My story of how I came to MB - 06/15/07 07:40 PM
Do you guys have PIs in England?
Posted By: tarnsy Re: My story of how I came to MB - 06/17/07 10:18 AM
Jim, yeah we do PI's here and have found out there is one very near to where I live so shall keep them in mind. A friend has said I can have use of her car so may take the opportunity to do some digging myself!

Question for you all. WH has offered to take me to a dental surgery appointment I have this week which is a 30 minute drive away. I don't really have anyone else to take me so should I accept and if I do should I bring up the fact that he hasn't replied to email I sent (as mentioned in 3rd post of this thread) or keep the conversation away from R talk?
Posted By: Orchid Re: My story of how I came to MB - 06/17/07 10:49 AM
Ask your BIL for assistance on identifying the OW.

L.
Posted By: tarnsy Re: My story of how I came to MB - 06/17/07 11:30 AM
I know OW's name and village she lives in and a friend of a friend lives in same village so hopefully will be able to get some info from her.

Can't ask BIL as his loyalties lie with WH (they are very close) and he knew of A before me and even went out with WH and OW before WH left home so don't think he'd tell me anything. Plus he has also just separated from his W so I think it would be a case of "all boys sticking together".
Posted By: tarnsy Re: My story of how I came to MB - 06/20/07 07:08 PM
Nothing new to report but WH was not able to take me to dental appt so no chance to talk which is probably for the best.

Still have received no reply to email I sent to him 12 days ago which was in reply to one WH sent to me. He has said on 3 occasions that he will reply asap. I told him previously that I needed him to reply so that I would know where I stand and what he is thinking and that my solicitor is chasing me as she wants to know if I want to carry on with divorce (on grounds of adultery) or not so he knows its important. Obviously he is using delaying tactics but his answers will help me to know what to do next. I don't want to get a divorce, but in the case of adultery there is a time limit - I don't think he knows this but I could be wrong.

Should I forget about the email or gently remind him again that I would like a reply?
Posted By: hopeandpray Re: My story of how I came to MB - 06/20/07 07:56 PM
Give a date to let you know by and if he doesn't communicate with you then file the divorce action. I bet he finds a way to communicate then.
Posted By: tarnsy Re: My story of how I came to MB - 06/23/07 11:28 AM
WH has just been to pick up DD and I took the oppotunity to ask him why he hadn't replied to my emails. After minutes of silence I said "honesty is the best policy, just spit it out". He replied "I'm not coming back".

Apparantly it wouldn't be fair on me and DD's as he is not 100% sure this he wants to come home so I asked him if he was 100% sure that he wanted to be with OW and he said yes, at the moment.

It then transpired that they have rented a house together and he plans to move in this week. He was under the illusion that I would allow him to take our youndest DD (eldest on a school trip) to meet her today. He didn't tell me this until just before they were due to leave but I told him in no uncertain terms that this was not going to happen and never will. He told me I was not being fair and that I can't stop him from letting OW meet DD's. I replied he hadn't been fair when he left us for OW and that I was protecting DD's from anymore upset. Besides, they don't want to meet her and this isn't about what he and OW want anymore.

I'm just so sad, a few weeks ago he was going to come home and work at our marriage and he ended the A but now he just wants to be with her. I feel like I did when he first left and I don't want to be that sad or in so much pain ever again. Please advise, I'm just sitting here crying at the mo.
Posted By: Orchid Re: My story of how I came to MB - 06/23/07 07:58 PM
Tarnsy,

Par for the course. Sounds harsh but he is full fledged WS.

Notice how he isn't even thinking about his children. How sad.

Report this in your request for separation and child custody hearings ASAP.

Do a full background check on the OW.

You have anger and need to channel it into something useful.
Anxiety may hit. Let the crying happen and if people ask, let them know there has been great tragedy in your family. I had axiety attacks in the car, at the store, in the middle of department meetings as well as at home. I learned NOT to hold back. In time they lessened but for me they were daily for about 2 months. Boy were my eyes dry by the end of those 2 months, then I got mad. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

Read about my stages of grieving and go read Love must be Tough (Dobson).

Let us know if you need to talk.

Hugz,
L.
Posted By: tarnsy Re: My story of how I came to MB - 06/24/07 01:50 PM
Hi Orchid, thx for the reply.

Yeah, I noticed how he didn't think about our DD's. Our eldest arrived back from a school trip today expecting WH to pick her up but I arranged for one of the other mums to take me to collect her. I didn't want to tell her straight away but the first thing she asked is why wasn't her dad there so it ended up being one of the first conversations we had.

She was more angry than upset and stated that she didn't want to meet OW and why was WH moving in with OW when 4 weeks ago he was going to come home. WH came round to see DD's but I kept out of the way. After WH had left DD said that she wants to go see WH new house as it has a big garden as long as OW is not there. I tried to explain to her that although OW may not be there the 1st or 2nd time she visits, there will be a time when she is and that is what WH and OW want but I don't think she knows how devious these people can be.

Before WH left today, he said he'll talk to me tomorrow about picking DD's up (he usually takes youngest to girls brigade and then both to his mums for dinner) but I told him not to worry as I would take youngest as I had told him yesterday. He took this to mean that I am not going to let him see DD's and got a bit angry but as I said to him previously I won't stop him from seeing them but this isn't about what he wants, it's about avoiding anymore upset for DD's He replied that I can't dictate to him and I may have LB'd when I replied as I told him that this has all been about what he and OW want so far and it stops now, I haven't got what I want as despite everything I still love him and just want our family back together.

Does anyone think that I should go to plan B now?
Posted By: tarnsy Re: My story of how I came to MB - 06/25/07 03:39 PM
Can anyone help? Is it time for plan B?
Posted By: womanoffaith5 Re: My story of how I came to MB - 06/25/07 09:42 PM
I am no expert at Plan B, but I will try to help.

It sounds like you are very close. some of the things to look for - are you close to losing your love for him? Plan B will help to protect the remaining love you have for him. Because the more you talk to him - and hear his babble - the more you will lose it.

Also - how was your Plan A? Do you feel like he has a good understanding now, of how things could be if he would just return? (as I recall - your Plan A was great - even before you knew what it was!)

How will you work out the logistics of a great Plan B? Who can act as your mediator? What about time spent with the girls? How will you handle the drop offs? These are all things to get in order right now.

I would suggest that for now, you get something in writing with him that outlines visitaion with the girls. An actual schedule, in writing. Soemthing you can stick too pretty close. That way, later on, you will not have to get messages back and forth about their schedule. Right now, while you are not in Plan B, tell him that you would like a written schedule for his visitaions. Go ahead and schedule as many details as possible, send a copy to him by email, and then prepare your Plan B letter.

This whole thing stinks. Everyone will agree with that. But I wouldn't get too worried about him living with her. That is a great way for him to see the whole truth about her.
Right now, they are both on their best behavior. And the A is wonderful right now! She thinks that he never stinks up the bathroom! He thinks that she will be happy and loving all the time. He will feel great just being with her! But you know better. After all - he is just a man. And she is just a woman. Neither of them is "special" enough to be able to make this work.

Your WH is going to really see the truth - and the day will come when he will know, for sure, that OW was not something special after all. If he had stayed with you that last time - he would have always wondered how it would have been. This way - he will not wonder.

I still have great hope for your M. I know it is hard! But things are not any worse now. He has been thinking about moving in with her for a long time. The only thing new, is that he finally got the nerve to tell you. Nothing has changed - it is just coming out to the light - and an A can not survive the light.

All WS's are in a hurry to introduce the kids to their home wrecker. My WxH left on a Wednesday (4 years ago today in fact). Just 3 days later - on a Friday night, he showed up to take the boys to dinner, and dropped them off afterwards. I thought nothing of it. The next morning, my sister-in-law told me that she saw him, in our truck, with a woman sitting next him, and my boys in the back seat! My boys! it never occured to WxH that it was a bad idea. He was in a fog. he wanted everyone to meet her, and make their A normal. But it didn't work out that way.

Later, when his A fell apart, he showed me emails from her (long story) where she would talk about how wonderful their lives would be with their 4 kids ! (my 2 plus her 2) and they would live happily ever after! WHAT??

After that first time meeting OW - my WxH did not bring the boys areound her agian for months. Apparantly it didn't go well. I am sure everyone was tense - and the happy love bubble began to burst. I am now re-married to a wonderful man. he has a 6 year old daughter who is with us 50% of the time. I love her, and she loves me, but she still talks about her Mom ALL THE TIME. And even though I get along with her mom just fine, and my R with her Dad has never been based on lies - I still don't enjoy hearing about her Mom ALL THE TIME. it gets old. Can you imagine how OW would react when your DD's talk about you?

So - I hope that your DD's never meet this wh*re. But if they do - it will be one of the worst things that can happen for your WH. Becuase every time he looks at the girls, he will know that what he is doing is worng. And when they say things like "Daddy - remember when you and Mommy to us to the park?" it will put another knife in his heart - and OW will not like it at all.

For now - keep reminding him that you can build a new, better M. But if he insists on staying with OW, then you need to have a visitaion schedule in writing.
You love him and beleive in him, but if he insists on living with OW then you need to have him put into writing how much child support he will pay. This can all be done by email if necessary.

And after you have it all figured out - then go to plan B. Boom! Just like that.

Plan B will show him what life would really be like after D. I am sure he thinks you would be friends. That he would be free to phone you whenever he likes. That you would be sad for awhile, but eventually everything would "all settle down" and everyone would get on just fine. Your Plan B will show him the truth. That you would never be friends with someone who treats you this way.
Posted By: womanoffaith5 Re: My story of how I came to MB - 06/25/07 09:45 PM
By the way - this line:
Quote
I told him that this has all been about what he and OW want so far and it stops now


Is great! I am very proud of you! You are taking back the control of your own life, and that is a good thing.You can still love him, and still fight for your M, but that does not mean that he and OW get to make all the decisions about your life.
Posted By: hopeandpray Re: My story of how I came to MB - 06/25/07 09:58 PM
Quote
He was under the illusion that I would allow him to take our youndest DD (eldest on a school trip) to meet her today. He didn't tell me this until just before they were due to leave but I told him in no uncertain terms that this was not going to happen and never will. He told me I was not being fair and that I can't stop him from letting OW meet DD's. I replied he hadn't been fair when he left us for OW and that I was protecting DD's from anymore upset. Besides, they don't want to meet her and this isn't about what he and OW want anymore.


The first thing these waywards want to do is legimize everything. We are soulmates, why can't you be happy for us no matter how devestated you are, just get over it.

WELL, BS, it will never be okay fot the BS. The WS that chooses to marry/cohabitate w/ the OP has made it impossible for the BS to ever have anything but spite, anger, disgust with them in the future.

Tell your DD's to state their wish to not be involved with OW and if H betrays their wishes then he can live with the consequences.
Posted By: tarnsy Re: My story of how I came to MB - 06/26/07 09:19 AM
WOF5, I am thinking about going to plan B in 3-4 weeks when the kids break for the summer holidays. This will give me the chance to plan A some more as we have school activities to attend and our youngest DD's birthday.

In the meantime I can set up an intermediary, probably mutual friends who have supported me throughout all this turmoil. I can then take the opportunity to work out when he will have DD's as weekend sleepovers are no longer an option. He will have to be satisfied with taking them out for the day and bringing them home each evening.

I agree that WH needs to see that OW is not the fantasy based person he probably thinks she is and that living together will prove this to him. OW works fulltime whereas I only worked part-time so that I could be there for DD's. WH always had a dinner ready for him when he came home from work and I took on most of the household duties. I wonder if she will be willing or able to take care of him in this way especially as apparently she is paying the rent on their house. I'm not saying I was the perfect little wife, not by a long shot, but I'm sure things will be different for WH now.

Thx for telling me some of your story, it helps to know that what WH is doing is "normal" by WS standards! My WH is obviously still in the fog to such a degree that he can't see that meeting the OW would be traumatic for our DD's. I'm probably doing him a favour by not letting them meet her as I'm sure it wouldn't be long before one of them said something along the lines of "hey dad, remember the other weekend when you stayed at our house and slept in mummy's bed!". I'd love to be a fly on the wall if that happened!

As for him finding out what it would be like to not have me in his life at all, I warned him weeks ago that if this whole A went any further then I wouldn't be his friend. I told WH he could have all of me or none of me but not just a part of me. Soon he will find out that I meant that.

I sent him a couple of emails yesterday telling hime how much we all loved and missed him and how I know that we can put out marriage back together and that it will be better than it ever was but that I will never allow DD's to meet OW. I don't think I'll get many chances to talk to him face to face now as when he drops DD's home now he doesn't stay (obviously got to get back to the ho!) whereas before he'd often stop for an hour or so. But we do have the school stuff to attend together so I'll have to make the most of these opportunites.
Posted By: tarnsy Re: My story of how I came to MB - 06/26/07 10:39 AM
H&P, my WH has invited our DD's to visit his house (I can't call it his home as that is here with me and DD's) when OW is not there but I still feel that this would be legitimizing his R and would only be a stepping stone to getting them to meet OW. How do they justify the fact that they are living with the OP when thay are married to someone else? WH wouldn't live with me till we were married but that hasn't stopped him this time. WH says he won't marry her or have children with her (she hasn't got any) so I wonder where all this is leading. WH says they haven't discussed these issues so I doubt she knows that this is as much committment as she is going to get.

Our DD's have told WH that they don't want to meet OW and I told him that if he takes them without my knowing then I shall rethink how often he gets to see them but I don't want DD's to suffer.
Posted By: womanoffaith5 Re: My story of how I came to MB - 06/27/07 05:23 PM
How are you doing today?
thinking of you!
Posted By: tarnsy Re: My story of how I came to MB - 06/27/07 05:41 PM
Thx WOF5, appreciate your thoughts.

Not doing too bad today. Have only had email and tm contact with WH the past couple of days but took the opportunity to plan a some more.

Told WH that he broke my heart yet again with this weekends news but that I'm still willing to leave the door open for his return and that I love and miss him very much as do DD's. But whatever happens I'm still not letting OW meet DD's as this would be another trauma in their short lives. Reminded WH that he used to say that we must be attached to each other by elastic as however bad things got we always came back together. Not that anything like the A has happened before but we had a "passionate" R and often took our anger out on each other but we always made up the same day. I never believed in going to bed on an arguement!

It was quite an emotional email and his reply was too, saying that my words were not falling on deaf ears and that he believed that I still love him whereas before he thought that my love had died like his had (this upset me a bit as 6 weeks before Dday it was our anniversary and he said he loved me then).

Got to take my daughters friend home now but shall add more later and may try to copy and paste part of emails here.

Thx for you support WOF5.

Tarnsy
Posted By: tarnsy Re: My story of how I came to MB - 06/28/07 02:07 PM
Ok, I'm getting angry with WH now. He has just sent me another email stating that he has a bedroom ready for DD's at his new house. Replied reminding him that they are NEVER going to stay there and please respect our decision on this matter.

Why doesn't he listen to me? I don't know how many times I've told him this isn't going to happen. Right from the word go I warned him that if he and OW moved in together, weekend sleepovers would cease but still he persists.

Plan B is getting nearer all the time.
Posted By: womanoffaith5 Re: My story of how I came to MB - 06/28/07 04:21 PM
I would suspect that OW is pushing him.
After all, he dumped her once before. This time, I am sure she is trying to do everything she can to latch onto him - if she isn't part of the girls' life, then she is not really a big part of his life. It is sad really.
It makes me think of my 20 year old step son and his wife. When they were dating, their R was on-and-off all the time. the last time they broke up, and then got back together, he signed up for a mobile phone plan, with her, on a 2 year contract. It was crazy - becuase prior to that, his dad was paying for his Mobile phone, so he had a free phone. then he went to the store, and signed up for a 2 year plan with his girlfriend. His dad could not understand why, and I said "actually, it is obvious. he is doing everything he can - short of marriage - to make their R more solid. He figures that if they have this 2 year mobile plan, then they won't break up. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

A stupid idea -but typical of 2 kids who are not making wise chouces.

That is your WH right now. A kid who is not makeing wise choices.

Maintain your own stability. Keep your answers short and consistent. "thank you for you email, I just want to remind you that OUR girls will not be staying there, with your girlfriend. OUR girls are all ready quite upset at the break up of their family, and I do not want to further traumatize them by exposing them to OW" (by the way - prior to this affair, would your WH say that it would be OK for his Daughters to live with BF outside of M? Is this an example that he would want to set for them?)

Of course - I don't need to give you advice on what to say - you have great intuition.

Start preparing for Plan B. You need to protect your love for him.

In fact - this may be a good time. Now that I think of it - if he is feeling lost and alone at the apartment - and trying to bring pieces of family into his new life, this may be a good time to show him what life will really be like if he gets a D.

What is the legal sitaution like over there, with kids? do you need to get some sort of visitation schedule in writing with him before you go to plan B?

Bob Pure would be a great one to help you - he lives in the UK as well.
Posted By: tarnsy Re: My story of how I came to MB - 06/28/07 06:15 PM
I agree with you WOF5, OW must be pushing to meet our DD's, it has only been since they moved in together that he has said anything about meeting her since New Year.

Your suggestion for my reply to his email was close to what I wrote although mine was a bit longer and I ended by telling him that there was only one thing that would make our daughters happy and that was for him to come home and that we all loved and missed him. Thx for saying that I have great intuition BTW!

It's too easy over here to get a divorce, I saw a solicitor back in Feb who said I could divorce him for adultery which he has admitted. He would have to divorce me for unreasonable behaviour(!) but I know that he can't afford the cost of going to court.

As for a visitation schedule, I don't know what I'm legally required to do, but I have no probs with him keeping more or less to what we already have in place with the exception of them staying over weekends and meeting OW.

Thx for the call to Bob Pure, he replied to one of my earlier posts and had good advice.
Posted By: womanoffaith5 Re: My story of how I came to MB - 06/28/07 06:44 PM
The thing I am concerned about, is that usually the next step is for the WH is start being mean to his BW. Lashing out, looking for reasons to be angry with you. He really has no good excuse for leaving his wife and children. anytime he sees a friend, or family memeber, he will likely be confronted about this, so he will start looking for excuses. also, he wants to make you angry, so you will stop loving him. That will help to ease his guilt.

Furthermore, typically, his OW will start pushing even harder. she is all ready telling him things like "Tarnsy is just trying to keep the girls from you, that is not right, this is your home and you have a right to have the girls spend the night, you need to fight her, you need to see a solicitor right away, this is not fair"

If the two of them could start telling everyone that you are mean, you will not let him see his girls, that he has to fight for visitation, and you are too controlling, that would give them just the sort of excuses they are looking for.

And when you go to plan B, that would give them more fuel for the fire. they will say "look at her, now she won't even talk to him! She is so mean!"

Of course, we all know better. But this is what usually happens next in this situation. So prepare yourself. You know what to expect - so make plans now to stop them.

If you could get something in writing, perhaps even via email, saying specifically what days, and what times, he will have visitaiton, then you will have proof that you are not trying to keep him from the girls, only from the adulterous, home wrecking, Ho. and now is the time to get something written up, while you are still in plan A. Then, when you have the boundaries in place, you can hand him the Plan B letter and cut off all contact. You will be able to say "your parenting plan is in writing, please refer to it"

I really think Plan B will be good for you.

Tell me more about this OW - what do you know about her?
Posted By: womanoffaith5 Re: My story of how I came to MB - 06/28/07 06:50 PM
One other thought - it is very common here in the States to have a statement in writing that says "neither parent is allowed to have an over night guest, of the opposite sex, that they are not married to, when the girls are spedning the night.

you have it written up as "neither parent can do this" so that he can not say "if I can't do it - neither can you" (as if you would) and you state that there can be no overnight stay.

Because the reality is that eventually, if he pushes it, he could have the girls meet OW - BUT you can usually put a stop to overnight guests at least.

Just a thought.
Posted By: Bob_Pure Re: My story of how I came to MB - 06/28/07 06:53 PM
Hi, flower.

Just speed-read your thread. Hmm.

Firstly you're RIGHT to keep OWs mitts off your kids.

In my experience WS and OPs love to get involved in the kids lives because they believe it will legitimize their grotesque relationship.

And kids will forgive and play along a lot easier than betrayed adults will, because they have little power in adult / child relationships.

Doing what makes daddy happy is good when mommy's not around. Look what dreadful abuse THAt has led to in many cases ?

I agree with WOF that you should work out a visitation schedule for him seeing the kids.

So that you aren't made to feel like you ar eunreasonable, or are "punishing" OW, state the facts: that you will always be the kids mother, but statistically speaking, only 5% of affair relationships last 5 years and only 2% of THEM get married, the odds are highly stacked against the trauma to the kids of meeting OW being a worthwhile long term investment.

I also believe that this is a good time to plan B. Very dark.

You need to escape the chaos of his ghoulish mess and he needs to miss you.

Don't fart about for ages like most hopeful BS do, tarnsey, arrange a go-between and go utterly black.

It brings a bag of consequences to his door and portectc you from daily pain.

Regarding UK MC, they're almost all useless. Relate is an arbitration service, not pro marriage at all. Only marriagecare is a decent MB-like service.

all blessings
Posted By: tarnsy Re: My story of how I came to MB - 06/28/07 07:13 PM
Thx for the forewarning! Sounds like things are just gonna keep on getting better and better!!

I see what you mean about them using things against me like not allowing DD's to stay over but how can I prevent this? Should I tell "friendly faces" how I feel about the OW meeting DD's and that this would be detrimental to their future happiness?

I shall definitely put something in writing with reference to visitation before plan b.

I know very little about the ho. She grew up round here but only returned last year. Did hear via friends that WH said at the time when he was going to come home that he was seeing her faults and that she was full or herself. Somebody very close to WH said "I hate her, she is a f***ing b*tch!"
I need to get more info on this! Other than rumours, I know what she does for a living but not where and know nothing about family and friends. May have to take previous advice about getting a PI but funds are v low at the mo.

Will keep in mind advice about over night guests, definitely not something I am going to do! WH has already said that if I get a BF and he comes to my home then it's only fair that OW gets to see DD's. Why would I allow my DD's to meet someone I've never met? I wouldn't allow them to go round some strangers house! But would this work if it's OW's house, WH is apparently not paying anything to stay there at the mo but I guess that will change v soon.
Posted By: tarnsy Re: My story of how I came to MB - 06/28/07 07:25 PM
Thx for your support Bob, glad to hear from you again.

Am thinking about going to plan B when DD's break for the summer hols as we have parents evenings, sports days and DD's birthday between now and then which will at least give WH more chances of seeing what he will be missing.

I have an excellent MC who I saw myself and helped me to get through those dark, desperate early days. I don't know if she knows anything about MB but her principles were similar in that she believed that you had to work on yourself to have any chance of getting a WS to fall back in love and that you had to try, try and try again before walking away from a M. And of course NC was imperitive. She works with the children of broken Ms so knows how badly it all affects them.
Posted By: Bob_Pure Re: My story of how I came to MB - 06/28/07 08:19 PM
Tarnsey, if you have an MC you trust, take no notice of anything anyone here tells you.

I for one speak from a knowledge of Dr Harley's methods and my own experience.

When you have two set of advisers when they disagree, you are left with confusion.

Dr H has some pretty strident opinions about what to do in affair sits, that many MCs do not share.

I am a lay person, I won't advise against a pro, especially one you got value from. As my Dad used to say " a man with a clock always knows the time. A man with TWO clocks is never quite sure" <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

All blessings !
Posted By: bulletproof_m Re: My story of how I came to MB - 06/28/07 10:30 PM
Tarnsey,

There are plenty of 'finding people' web services in the UK. I had a lot of success with www.192.com & one other (I can't remember the name but will dig it out if you're interested); with 192.com you buy search credits, with the other you buy a period (I got 1 month). I spent about £40 in all & found everyhting I wanted to know. I can help if you get stuck.

b.p.m.
Posted By: tarnsy Re: My story of how I came to MB - 06/29/07 08:25 AM
Bob, am no longer seeing MC (WH only saw her twice) as we both felt that I had got to the point where I could cope on my own should WH not come back and that the self improvements I'd made would continue to grow. She is available for me to see on my own or with WH should he decide to work on M but for now I'm working on the MB principles so please feel free to advise me through this quagmire!

BPM, thx for the info, will check out 192.com and would appreciate it v much if you could find the name of the other website.

thx tarnsy
Posted By: bulletproof_m Re: My story of how I came to MB - 06/29/07 09:34 AM
The other website was http://www.onlinesearches.info/

I bought the 1 month unlimited search for £13.75 which gives you "Unlimited searches of the electoral roll by full name, forename, surname or address, including unlimited searches of the Birth, Death and Marriage records".

I used 192 to find OM, onlinesearches to find his family; cross referenced back to 192 to confirm addresses & get telephone numbers (also www.bt.com). Google & yahoo.co.uk were also useful. Shout me back if you need any help with this.

Good luck.

b.p.m.
Posted By: tarnsy Re: My story of how I came to MB - 06/29/07 09:52 PM
Don't know whether I should send this email to WH or not, it is in response to one from him asking if he could have our DD's this weekend as a family member was coming home but I had already made arrangements for us to visit a relative.

Please don't say that you can't see them. You know that i will never stop you from seeing them. Their happiness is the most important thing to me and that includes seeing their dad. You have to understand that I just cannot allow them to meet the ow. This would be of no benefit to them, they don't want to meet her and I can't condone the fact that you are now living together by allowing them to visit your current abode. This is the wrong message to send them and I know that you know that in your heart.

I love you with all my heart and I don't know how you can throw away 19yrs so easily. The pain that your relationship with an ow causes me is indescribable especially after you said that you wanted to come home just a few weeks ago. I really believed you when you said that but instead I had my heart broken again and I don't know how much more I can take. The more I think about it the more I think that I can't take any more of your lies and the easiest thing to do would be to walk away and start being a b*tch.

But I know that we are meant to be together and that this whole situation is just a test of our love and that one day we'll be able to look back at this time and know that we had to go through it for our love to grow and blossom. Marriages that survive extra marital relationships are the strongest there are and I'm sure that soon you will see for yourself that we can be one of those relationships.

It has been nearly eight months since you left your family in search of greener grass and during that time I have felt every emotion possible towards you but never once did I lose my love for you. Despite all the hurt and the tears I have continued to know that you are the love of my life and that the most important thing in the world is to fight to keep our family together.

I could easily say to you that that's it now, I've had enough and turn my back on any thoughts of reconciliation because I know that would be the easier option. Recovering a marriage is one of the hardest things that anyone can do but it would be well worth the struggle. Our daughters would be happy again and so would we. Just the thought that we could put the smiles back on their faces would make the hard work worthwhile.

I have proved to myself that I don't need you to survive but I know now that I want you more than I ever knew or cared to admit to even to myself. But the fact is that I don't want to have to survive without you. I respect the fact that you believed my love for you had died but as I have explained I was trying to get you to demonstrate your love for me instead of acting like you didn't care whether I was there or not. I know I did the wrong thing and I take responsibilty for what I did but I wasn't alone in doing the wrong thing. You have seen how different I am from the person you left and those changes are only going to get more pronounced as time goes by. I have taken professional advice and have listened carefully to what has been said and put those words of wisdom into practice. I want you to be the one who benefits from the changes I have made so that I can make up for all the times when I wasn't the wife I should have been to you.

If you look back at the times we spent together during April and May I'm sure you'll remember that I was willing to do anything to make you happy. I listened to you as you spoke about your family problems, I admired you when you told me about the business, I tried to support you when you ended your extra marital relationship and I was more than happy to have SF with you and fulfill one of your fantasies. I wasn't pretending when I did those things, I wanted nothing more than to make you happy. I was the person I used to be before the stresses of life overwhelmed me and forced me into the dark, solitary place that I found myself in. Things can be like that again if you give them the chance.

Well, I've probably said too much (unusually for me!) but I needed to let you know what you risk losing forever and to tell you again how much you mean to me and to our daughters. The D***** I know will do the right thing by his family I just hope that he hasn't gone forever.


Please feel free to tell me not to send this or to change parts of it as I know that I'm feeling particularly emotional at the moment and am probably not thinking clearly!

Tarnsy
Posted By: womanoffaith5 Re: My story of how I came to MB - 06/29/07 09:57 PM
dont send it.It is way too long.

I will respond with more in a little while, but I wanted to stop you first before you send it.
Posted By: Bob_Pure Re: My story of how I came to MB - 06/29/07 10:17 PM
Tarnsey

Neediness is sickening to WS.

Groveling is sickening to a WS.

Both reinforce the bad rewrite of history and facts required for them to self-justify their affair.

Your email is saccharine, desperate and needy IMO.
Its time to find some dignity, girl. Affair-crap is only deep enough to drown you if you cringe in it.

Write him something like :

" WH

I want what is best for our children, and that means a restored family. Even while they don't have that right now, I do not see how it is even slightly in their best interests to introduce them to OW now.

Please accede to my wishes that you see our children but that you do not force them to meet OW.

I want to have a restored marriage with you, but not at the cost of my dignity or the children's happiness.

Please reconsider your actions and do what you think is right.

I will do the same.

Love

tarnsey "

No sentiment, no neediness, no bucket required.

In the tens of couples I have advised here and the hundreds I have read here I have never seen a recovery spring from such desperate groveling. Dignity with conciliation, while being the best spouse you can sustainably be is what attracts spouses back.

All blessings
Posted By: womanoffaith5 Re: My story of how I came to MB - 06/29/07 10:30 PM
Read the Book “Divorce Busters” by Michele Weiner-Davis. Specifically, the section about “Do’s and Don’ts” and the “180”. This book will tell you why you shouldn’t send long, emotional, heart-wrenching messages!

I know where you are coming from – we all do! I sent a few letters to my WxH at first, before I read any of the books. Each time, I spent hours pouring my heart out, certain that I was finally going to write the words that would melt his heart and send him rushing back. I also included pictures of us smiling together, and even a wedding picture!!
I remember the first letter. I had been awake all night. I had it in the envelope, ready to go. I left home early and drove to his work, so I could be there, waiting as he drove in. I handed him the envelope, smiled, and said “I just wanted you to read that”. In response he rolled his eyes and said “thanks”

I left there feeling even worse! Later that day he emailed me to say “thanks for the letter – I am sure that we really loved each other a long time ago, but that was back then, and I don’t feel that way any more. You will be fine. You will find someone else someday, and be happy – just like me.”

That was not the response I was looking for at all.

After I started reading the various books, I realized that I was doing a lot of the wrong things. When you write these letters, and continue to profess your love, all you do is remind him that he used to love you, but he doesn’t anymore (or so he says). When you send him the wedding pictures, another reminder that things have changed for the worse. When you tell him how heart broken you are, he just feels bad for you. And many times, when they feel guilty, and see how hurt you are, they decide to hurry up and file for the D, thinking that once the D is final, everyone will be better off. You will be hurt now, but after the D you will get over it, move on, and be ok. And frankly, parts of your letter allude to that very thing. When you say that you realize now you can live without him just fine – my first thought was “he will encourage her to move on, to get the divorce over with, because he doesn’t want her to hurt any longer”.

Also – your WH is probably not sleeping well right now, and not thinking clearly. any time you correspond with him, you need to keep your message short and simple.

Finally, watch out for statements like this:

Quote
I respect the fact that you believed my love for you had died but as I have explained I was trying to get you to demonstrate your love for me instead of acting like you didn't care whether I was there or not. I know I did the wrong thing and I take responsibility for what I did but I wasn't alone in doing the wrong thing.”


You have told him that your love has not died. Leave it at that. You recognize that there are some things you should have done different, you are making those changes in yourself, so leave that subject alone now. It never sounds good to say “I know I was wrong – but so are you” and “I was not alone in doing the wrong thing!”

If you have something to apologize for, just apologize, and be done with it. Quit hashing it up, and quite saying “yeah, but you were bad too” there is no doubt that he made mistakes – he slept with another woman! Lets not dwell on the past.

Now that I have picked apart your letter, let me say that you have the right intentions. He should appreciate it! But he just won’t – not yet. Continue to write all your feelings down like this. It is good to get them out in the open. But keep this is your journal.

I have more to share – but I cam going to send a separate reply for that.

Hang in there.
Posted By: womanoffaith5 Re: My story of how I came to MB - 06/29/07 10:32 PM
Ok, Bobs post is much shorter than mine - and more to the point!

Listen to him - this is a mans point of view.
Posted By: hopeandpray Re: My story of how I came to MB - 06/29/07 10:32 PM
Quote
" WH

I want what is best for our children, and most everyone would agree that means a restored family. Even while they don't have that right now, I do not see how it is even slightly in their best interests to introduce them to OW at this time.

Please consider my wishes that you continue to be a father to and see our children but that you do not force them to meet OW.

WH, I want to have a restored marriage with you, but not at the cost of my dignity or the children's happiness and emotional well being.

Please consider your actions and do what is in the best interests of our children. I make you a promise that I will.

Love,

tarnsey "


I would change it just a little....(but BobPure is better at this than me cause I tend to be a little more hardened, I think)
Posted By: womanoffaith5 Re: My story of how I came to MB - 06/29/07 10:46 PM
I see a lot of hope for your M. I really do. But here is the thing – it is going to take time. It must be terribly frustrating, since he did come back, quite recently! I would imagine that it makes you feel like you have to hurry up and grab on quick, while the momentum is still there.

But the truth is – this A needs to completely run its course. As painful as it is – you need him to truly go through all of the stages, so that later, when you do reconcile, he will never come back to you and say ‘It was a mistake to get back together – I miss the OW, and I need to find her” or, even worse, you don’t want him to ever find OW#2. he needs to fully go through this ordeal, so that he never wants to do it again.

So think of the things that you know are true:

1. Very few A’s last for more than 2 years. Only about 3%.
2. You have all ready made some amazing changes in yourself. That is a good thing. So keep up the good work. Do not talk about it – just do it.
3. You have a long history with him. No one else can ever have that. You are the wife of his youth, the mother of his children. That is worth a lot. There is no OW in the world that will ever have the simple R you two have had. Any other woman he finds will always be the “second woman”. Every other R will have to deal with the “first wife, the mother of his children” If he marries someone else, they will be the “OW” at all family functions. You can’t tell him this – he will not listen. But he is going to figure out himself in time.

There is a post on here from Ark that says “BS – just be still” and that definatly applies to you. It sucks! It will not be easy! But the truth is that his A will not last. And then – the question will be: will you still take him back?

Have you gotten any more info on the OW yet??
Posted By: tarnsy Re: My story of how I came to MB - 06/30/07 09:50 AM
Thx everyone for your words of wisdom. I think I knew that what I was putting into words was not the right thing to do but I was feeling especially emotional last night as DD was 2 hours late coming home for another school trip and I ended up tm WH to tell him. He called me back 15 mins later after I had found out that the coach had just turned up and our call was rather short and abrupt as I can't speak to him when I know that he is at his new house and OW is probably there.

I shall be sure to try to find the book you recommended, WOF, and the post too. Thx for realising where I am coming from, you seem to know exactly how I'm feeling as I'm sure all other BS out there do.

I am in the process of putting into writing a schedule for when WH can see DD's and shall post it here before I give it to WH so that you all can advise me on what to change.

As for OW, I checked out the sites BPM told me about but the nearest match turned out to be the one where you need to pay £150 to retrieve the information! Can no way afford that at the mo, but the other site is another option but I don't think it has as much info. A friend of a friend lives in the same road that WH and OW have moved to so maybe able to use that to my advantage.

Will post as soon as I have completed letter to WH and thx again for all your support everyone.

Tarnsy
Posted By: bulletproof_m Re: My story of how I came to MB - 06/30/07 10:59 AM
The £150 is for an archive search, unless you're desperate to know where she used to live it's not much use. Have you tried www.bt.com. There's always the electoral roll down at the library & it's free. What are you trying to find out about OW ??

Must dash - I'll check back later.
Posted By: tarnsy Re: My story of how I came to MB - 06/30/07 01:48 PM
Ok, I have decided to include WH visitation schedule in with reply to last email but would this be too much for his fogged out brain to take in I wonder! Should I email or hand him a paper copy?

WH,

So that there is no confusion I have decided to put in writing a schedule for when you see the girls. As you have already asked that you not have them the weekend of 7th/8th July so that you can go to Silverstone and that the next week is DD's party, I suggest that we start this schedule from the following week.

Schedule goes here.

You will see that other than sleeping over, not much has changed and you know the resaons why this is not agreeable to myself or DD's. Please continue to see the girls but do not try to enforce them to meet OW.

To reiterate, this is not to "punish"anyone, simply to protect out daughters from anymore trauma. I will always be their mother as you will always be their father, but as statistically your extra marital relationship has a less than 5% chance of lasting, I do not believe that the emotional upset of meeting the OW can in anyway be of benefit to them.

I want what is best for our children and I think anyone would agree that that is to have a restored family with you but not at the cost of DD's happiness and emotional wellbeing or my dignity.

Please reconsider your actions and do what you know is right. I will do the same,

Love Tarnsy

Should I copy this to anyone do you think, his sister perhaps so that they can see that I'm not trying to stop WH from seeing DD's?
Posted By: tarnsy Re: My story of how I came to MB - 06/30/07 02:01 PM
Ok, I have decided to include WH visitation schedule in with reply to last email but would this be too much for his fogged out brain to take in I wonder! Should I email or hand him a paper copy?

WH,

So that there is no confusion I have decided to put in writing a schedule for when you see the girls. As you have already asked that you not have them the weekend of 7th/8th July so that you can go to Silverstone and that the next week is DD's party, I suggest that we start this schedule from the following week.

Schedule goes here.

You will see that other than sleeping over, not much has changed and you know the resaons why this is not agreeable to myself or DD's. Please continue to see the girls but do not try to enforce them to meet the OW.

To reiterate, this is not to "punish"anyone, simply to protect out daughters from anymore trauma. I will always be their mother as you will always be their father, but as statistically your extra marital relationship has a less than 5% chance of lasting, I do not believe that the emotional upset of meeting the OW can in anyway be of benefit to them.

I want what is best for our children and I think anyone would agree that that is to have a restored family with you but not at the cost of DD's happiness and emotional wellbeing or my dignity.

Please reconsider your actions and do what you know is right. I will do the same,

Love Tarnsy


Should I copy this to someone, his sister perhaps so that they can see that I'm not trying to stop WH from seeing DD's?
Posted By: Lora Re: My story of how I came to MB - 06/30/07 02:46 PM
Tarnsey,

Quick post from me, a long time member, but not active poster, but none of your regular posters seem to be here.... wait to send this please.

The line that tries to educate him about his affair ending is bad... it will put him on the defensive and cause him to want to prove you wrong. Can you change it to something like your counsler or someone recommend waiting for both of you to introduce new people into the childrens life due to the termoil of seperation and divorce?

Best of luck
Posted By: Bob_Pure Re: My story of how I came to MB - 06/30/07 03:03 PM
To reiterate, this is not to "punish"anyone, simply to protect out daughters from anymore trauma. I will always be their mother as you will always be their father, but as statistically your extra marital relationship has a less than 5% chance of lasting, I do not believe that the emotional upset of meeting the OW can in anyway be of benefit to them.

agreed. Delete this bit. It will be useful for defence in a court if you are called to defend why you do not think OW should meet your kids, but do not try to teach your WH.

He utterly believes at this moment that they are star crossed soulmates like romeo and juliet.


"Unique" just like every other sick affair relationship.
Posted By: tarnsy Re: My story of how I came to MB - 06/30/07 03:14 PM
Ok, to confirm, I cut the bit from "i will always be their mother" etc. to the next paragraph?

Would a written letter be better than an email so that he can't just hit delete, and should I copy in a member of his family as I don't know what he is saying to them about all this.
Posted By: Lora Re: My story of how I came to MB - 06/30/07 03:37 PM
I was hoping some other parents would chime in, I hope you can wait to send for just a bit and get some further feedback. I don't meen to be nit picky, just objective.

The line about your dignity seems a little wrong for a WS ears too. I would just focus on what is best for the children. Having an intact family and not being confused by meeting other people while you are still married.
Posted By: Bob_Pure Re: My story of how I came to MB - 06/30/07 03:58 PM
I'd leave the dignity piece in. Dignity with conciliation seems to be a good way to bring WS home IME.

Including my own <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

"I want to rebuild our childrens family, but not at the expense of my dignity" meaning "i won't eat crap sandwiches to have you home if that what it takes".

Tarnsey its up to you.
Posted By: tarnsy Re: My story of how I came to MB - 07/01/07 12:41 PM
Thx Lora, Bob, will have a ponder about that. Bob, your line "tarnsy its up to you" sounds like something from a gameshow but cant think which one!

BPM, what I want to find out about OW is where she works and if there are any relatives I can expose to. OW does not appear on this years electoral roll for my region but this I expected as she only returned here late last year. There are many OW with the same name (ha! how common!) from area she used to live. Have found out OW and WH new address tho.

Will continue to think about suggestions for changes to schedule letter as will hopefully give it to WH tomorrow.

Tarnsy
Posted By: womanoffaith5 Re: My story of how I came to MB - 07/02/07 05:39 PM
I apologize, I never come here on weekends!

Looks like you had great input all weekend. Your intuition is good again.

do not try to educate him "only 5% of A's last". As Bob said, your WH is different!! his OW is special!! They both have agreed that no matter what, they will stay together just to prove everyone wrong. It is best to not even suggest that this R will not last. Becuase when it does fall apart, he does not want to hear "I told you so". Just keep reminding him that you only want to do what is best for you and the girls, and don''t even talk about how stupid his A is, or what a wh*re the OW is. He will find out in time.

I like the idea of sending a copy to someone else, to show that you are not trying to keep him from the girls. But I do not think it would be good to send a copy to her at the same time as you are sending it to him. wouldn't want him to say "and why are you dragging sister into this".
perhaps you could just call her and say "I have just sent a copy of the visitation plan to WH and would like to send you a copy as well, just to keep you in the loop.

How is your R with his family? Are you keeping gramma and grampa involved in the girls lives? Aunties and Uncles? Making sure you invite them to school functions,etc? it is important to keep the communication open with all of them as well. If you continue to chat with them, and invite them to the girls school functions, it will be hard for WH to say that you are keeping the girls away from him.

I would suggest that you invite his family members over for dinner as often as possible. Make up excuses to have them over. then when you are talking to WH you casually mention things like "your mom and dad are coming over tonight. the girls have baked them a cake!"
remind him that YOU are a family member. And YOU always will be. You are not just some girl friend that can be replaced with another girl friend. You are a permanent family member.

I also understand how horrible it is to talk to him on the phone, when he is at her house, but think about how uncomfortable it makes her feel! I would bet that whenever he talks to you, she is in a panic. After all - you are still his W, mother of his children. he dumped her once before. She can not possibly feel secure with him. I would suggest that while you are still in Plan A, try to carry out your converstaions for longer, when you know he is at her house. Chat about the girls, the fun things they are doing. Tell him about conversations you have with his family, with mutual friends. Make sure your conversations are long enough to make her mad.

and another thing - never call that "place" his home. Refer to it as "Her house". "What time do think you will be back at her house tonight? The girls may want to talk to you before they go to bed?" Things like that.
Posted By: tarnsy Re: My story of how I came to MB - 07/02/07 06:04 PM
Hey WOF, thx for getting back to me. Shall be giving WH visitation schedule in about 40 minutes when he brings DD's home. Made some minor adjustments but I think the tone is right.

My R with WH's family has gone way down since he left. One of his sisters called to offer support a couple of weeks after but obviously couldn't wait to get off the phone and that is all the support I have received from them but that's no more that I expected. I've always said that the family was a cross between the Waltons and the Mafia!

But most of WH's family have their own problems to deal with, another broken marriage, alcoholism and the birth of a 13 week early baby to name a few. I've always been close to FIL as we share the same sense of humour and have seen him briefly a few times but never alone so I haven't been able to tell him things from my POV. I did tell his sister that WH and OW had been seeing each other for 5mths before he left and she didn't know that so I guess that he has been a typical WH and rewritten history.

I shall do my best to string out any future phone conversations as I like the idea of her squirming in her seat!

I have arranged to meet one of WH's sisters in the school holidays so that our kids can get together but both his sisters live about a 2 hour drive away so don't come back to their home town very often. His parents have never really been very interested in our DD's and have usually let us down when we have invited them to anything plus my mum can't stand his mum and as my parents have been exceptionally good grandparents, they always get asked first. But will definitely think about inviting IL's for dinner.

Thx again WOF, as usual your advice is spot on!

Tarnsy
Posted By: tarnsy Re: My story of how I came to MB - 07/02/07 07:32 PM
Well, I have given WH visitation schedule. I slipped it into the pile of mail that arrived for him over the last few days and I know he saw the handwritten envelope when he flicked thru. He didn't say anything, in fact he barely spoke apart from hello and goodbye both times he came to the house and wouldn't even look me in the eye. I tried to achieve eye contact and was smiley and cheerful as our DD's left and arrived home but WH just looked uncomfortable.

I did receive a couple of emails from him today just saying again that this situation has to change. Reminded him yet again the DD's will not be meeting OW as they do NOT want to and to please respect their decision and not ask again.

I expect I'll hear from sooner or later with regards to the visitation schedule altho I don't think he has any reason to argue about any of it.

Here it is:


So that there is no confusion I have decided to put in writing a schedule for when you see the girls. As you have already asked that you not have them the weekend of 7th/8th July so that you can go to Silverstone and that the next weekend is DD's party, I suggest that we start this schedule from the following week. I hope this will be agreeable to you.

Every week – Mondays – Pick up DD at 5.45 for GB, return at 7.30

- Tuesdays – Pick up DD at 5.45 for gym, return at 7.15
DD can go if she wishes.

Every other – Saturdays – Pick up girls at 11.00, return at 8.00
Week
- Sundays - Pick up girls at 11.00, return at 5.00.

You will see that other than sleeping over, not much has changed and you know why this is not acceptable to myself or the girls.

To reiterate, this is not to “punish” anyone, simply to protect our daughters from anymore trauma. Please continue to be a good father to our daughters but do not try to force them to meet the other woman.

I want what is best for our children and I think that anyone would agree that that is to have a restored family with you. But as they don’t have that right now, I will not put their future happiness and emotional well being at any further risk.

Please consider your actions and do what is in the best interests of our children and I promise to do the same.
Love
T
Posted By: womanoffaith5 Re: My story of how I came to MB - 07/02/07 09:47 PM
You are really doing a great job!

I want to mention a few things to prepare yourself for. I am not trying to scare you - just helping you to prepare for all the possibilites.

He may see a lawyer, to get something in writing that says he is being deinied access to the girls. That he has a bedroom ready for them, and he expects to pick them up on Friday night, keep them all weekend, and then return them Sunday night. I have no idea what the laws will allow him to get away with over there, but be prepared for this possiblity. (honestly - I don't think he would follow through with this -he would have to admit to the lawyer that he was living with his girlfriend and I think he may be too embarassed by that)

He may tell you that "OW is not going to be there on the weekend, so the girls will be OK spending the night"
Of course, that just leads you to wonder if he is lying. I have no advice here - I just know that many WH's have used this line. Sometimes, they do have the OW stay somewhere else while the kids are there.

Here in the US, I would say that he may file for the D, just to finally be "single" so that he was no longer "having an A"

By the way - since you handed him the visitation schedule - do you have an email that actually talks about it? Some sort of proof that he recevied it? Even something that says "I just read your schedule, and it sucks?" If so, keep a copy of the email with a copy of the schedule, so you have proof that you are trying to give him a fair schedule.

Be prepared for your WH to start recieving some really bad legal advice from OW. this seems to be part of the WH handbook. he will start quoting things to you that sounds like he has seen lawyer - as if he has an actual plan. And he may even get some real legal advice. but when he says something stupid - just know that he is getting advice from the OW.

Typically, when a WS knows what they are doing is wrong, they are looking for any excuse, any way to make things ok. that is when you start hearing crap about "the kids will be better off, kids are resilant, it would be better for the girls to see me happy" etc. these words come right out of the mouth of the OW, in order to make him feel better, so he doesn't change his mind. She will also say things to him like "my friend Petunia was in the same situation and her solicitor said that she had every right to have the kdis spend the night with her BF there, so they fought it, and she won"

So he will start saying stupid things like "I am going to fight you on this, I am going to win custody, I will take the girls away" and all of those things will panic you - but try not to react. it is all just crap.

One other thing - this one really sucks - he may try to win the girls over saying things like "Daddy has a friend who wants to meet you. she likes to watch your favorite TV shows, she likes the same music you do, and she wants to take you to a proper beauty salon to get your hair and nails done. She wants to take you shopping for new clothes, and she wants you to pick out something for Mommy for her birthday as well"
Get the picture? I am 100% sure that right now, OW is trying everything she can think of. She is saying "lets fix up the girls bedroom in their favorite colors, lets buy them some new clothes, lets get them each an Ipod" She wants to win the girls over. And your WH- who currently is not capable of independant thought - is going to repeat everything she says.

And your girls will start to feel sorry for him.
"Mummy, Daddy wants us to spend the night. He misses us. And we don't want to meet OW, but Daddy says she is really quite nice, and she has gifts for us."

I guess the only advice I have here is just to remain strong. Smile at the girls and say "I will talk to Daddy later. Go off and play for now" and when you have the chance to speak to the WH, just remind him that you know what is best for your girls, and having them confused about their Daddy living with his girlfriend is not best for them.

I just wnat you to be prepared for these things, becuase then if happens, it wouldn't be so shocking.

Of course I really hope that none of this happens - that he finally pulls his head out of his [censored] and does the right thing.
Posted By: tarnsy Re: My story of how I came to MB - 07/03/07 10:50 AM
Looks like you were spot on WOF! Here is the email I just received from WH. I haven't replied as yet as I think I need some expert advice before I do.

The subject title of his email was "a good day!" as I'd just said that to him on the phone.

That would be nice! But not achievable under the current terms and your letter.

I spoke to DD13 but not in detail, like some people have.

People seem to have done a good job on turning her around. She was up set about me leaving, of cause she was but she seems to have gone back wards now because a couple of months back she did not carry the hate she does now..

I don’t know what has been said to her but I can guess why! I don’t slag you or our marriage of to her to try and get her to be in my favour, but it feels this has been done the other way.

As to you letter, I am afraid I can not accept your terms. Why is quite simple. How am I to keep both of them entertained from 11 in the morning until 8 at night and then the same on Sundays if I don’t have a bass to work from. I have a bedroom with all the bits they would need, PC, web connection, music and DVD/TV. I cant see them enjoying walking around town all day, not only that, I cant afford to take them out all day every other weekend.

As you can tell by my tone on the phone I am not pleased or happy with this, and it needs to change. How I don’t know as yet, but I do feel all three of you are using a good old trick of emotional blackmail.

I know I have made you cry, a lot, but know the tables have turned, all I seem to be doing is wanting to or crying.

Not only that we have the problem of monies, we’ll have to talk about this at a later date as the phone is going nuts here and I have a lot on b4 I go out to an appointment this afternoon


All this just fills me with sadness. The future doesn't good at the moment and I know I need to stay strong but patience has never been one of my strong points. Why can't he see that it is his actions that have caused all this upset and continue to do so.
Posted By: Orchid Re: My story of how I came to MB - 07/03/07 11:11 AM
The e-mail is still 'all about him'.

If you need to reply, I would keep it short and to the point. Not meet his demands but rather focus on meeting the needs of your children.

Example:

WS,

I received your response. Sad that you feel things are stacked against you. Guess that's what happens to those who choose to abandon their families. As for turning anyone against you, none of us can do the job you have done. You actions have been noticed by many (don't define).

As for taking proper care of the children while they are in your care, that is your responsibility. You have chosen to this lifestyle and actually you should be glad they are even willing to spend time with you. Despite how much you have hurt them, the children love you. If you truly love your children, your priority should be to make them feel as safe as possible while with you Having an OW around does NOT make them feel safe. It is detrimental to their physical, mental and emotional well-being. You will be less of a parent if you bring the OW around them. Not an opinion but a fact.

As for your lack of funds, then it just means you have to be resourceful. I am already being resourceful so you and I are no different in this matter.

If you can come up with a reasonable alternative, let me know. Otherwise, this is the best I know under these difficult circumstances.

Btw, I know my husband would not want his family to suffer. Not sure about your choices but I do know he would not be happy seeing his children being shuffled around as such.

Sincerely,
BS

Ok, that's my sample. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

L.
Posted By: womanoffaith5 Re: My story of how I came to MB - 07/03/07 10:49 PM
I have been busy at work today, and just now had a chance to read!

By the way – I will be on holiday from now until Sunday, so I am afraid I will not be back to post until next Monday.

That was a very ugly email from him! I can imagine that it was very upsetting for you. Now remember, you had some advance warning, so this was not a complete surprise for you. That is the great thing about MB, you can come here and read about similar situations, and it will give you some idea what to expect. Now, when I tell you that his A will not last, that some day he will be broken, hopefuly you will start to see the possibility. So far, your WH has not done anything new. He has said and done the same things every other WS has ever done here. So keep reading, stay informed, and you will not be surprised at some of the outrageous things he will say and do before this is all over.

It is good to wait at least 1 day before replying to any of his emails. I am certain that he expects an instant response. He thinks you will be furious, and try to “get even” with him. So throw him off – do not respond right away. Wait a day to gather your thoughts. Keep a journal each day, so you can say all the horrible things you are thinking. And when you do reply to him, keep it short, simple, and non-threatening. Things like “I have not tried to turn the girls against you. You are my H, their father. I am not trying to make you look bad, or feel bad. I am only trying to protect my girls. The hurt they felt when you first left us, grows each day, with the realization that this is it. This is our life now. We do not have you here to share in our day. You are not here to have breakfast with us in the morning. That is a pain that gradually builds. I am not trying to make you look bad, right now it is all I can do just to get through each day. To hear that you are spending time crying now, just breaks my heart.

As for the money issue, please let me know what your ideas are. I am quite worried about how we will be able to pay our bills, now that you have another house to support.

I want to be strong. I am maintaining a loving home for my daughters in the midst of a very scary, confusing time. I always thought we would be married forever. Apparently that is not meant to be. I will not spend my time speaking poorly of you to our girls, that is simply not my style. But as their mother I will defend them at all cost. I will stand up for them.

Anyway – these are just some random thoughts. Pick and choose what you will. Don’t be angry, mad, or mean. Show him your loving concern. You are not weak – you will fight for your family. You will not allow him to bully you. But you are not trying to seek revenge either.

This will all take time. I know it is hard – you count each hour. You want to DO something. But you can’t – this whole thing will have to go through each step, each stage, so that you can get to the final outcome.

By the way – could you see where he was getting his words from the OW. The 3 of you are using the “good old trick of emotional blackmail?” Huh? Did you laugh at that? Does that really sound like something your H would say? Or just the other womans boyfriend???

I will prepare one more post before I go home for the day.
Posted By: womanoffaith5 Re: My story of how I came to MB - 07/03/07 11:13 PM
A couple of things I have learned:

Keep him off guard. Do something entirely different from what he expects. If he expects you to be angry, don’t do it. It he thinks you are going to yell, be calm. Show him, by your own ACTIONS that you are a different person. Do not stoop down to the OW’s level. Be the mature one, the one who shows love and kindness. Not weakness – but kindness. I learned this lesson, and now it helps me in my new M. when we have an argument – I respond with a small kiss on the cheek and a simple “I love you”.

I have thought about your false recovery, and why that may have happened. After all, he was back home – the girls saw him sleeping in the same room with you. He told OW that they were over. Why are you fighting this battle again?

Perhaps, there is more that you need to learn. Certainly he has more to learn. He needs to learn the full lesson, that infidelity is wrong, bad, and hurtful to everyone. He can never, ever, do this again. And he needs to go through ALL this crap to fully learn that.

But what about you? What do you need to start learning thought all of this? Perhaps that is something for you to think about for now. Don’t waste too much time worrying about what he is doing, or thinking. Let him go off and make his own mistakes. Instead, concentrate on what you need to do for your own growth and healing. How can you be a better mom? Daughter? Friend? What are your gifts? What are your weaknesses?

How can you help others? How about calling an old friend to see how she is doing? There are hurting people everywhere in this world, perhaps now would be a good time to start helping out where you can. I would be willing to bet that if you look around your circle of acquaintances – your DD’s friends moms, neighbors, woman from work, cousins you haven’t seen in a long time – there are other hurting woman that you could help. You can baby-sit for a mom who needs a break. Take a meal to a family. Have your DD’s friends over to make bead bracelets. When you start opening your heart to helping others, you will find that you don’t have much time to think about your own troubles.

This A just needs time to run its course. So the question is – what will you do with that time? This is your time – you can do whatever you want. So what will it be?
Posted By: Bob_Pure Re: My story of how I came to MB - 07/04/07 04:25 AM
WOF
Wisdom and compassion suffuses your every post. Thank God you contribute to this place.
Posted By: tarnsy Re: My story of how I came to MB - 07/04/07 12:20 PM
I second that completely Bob, WOF is truly a wise and wonderful person. I appreciate the time she takes to think about and reply to my posts and everyone else who does too.

I hope you have a great holiday WOF, are you doing anything special?

Thx for the headsup on the email WH sent. After reading your previous response I was waiting for it to arrive, it didn't take long! I have not replied to it yet as tomorrow we have to attend DD's parents evening together and I don't want there to be an atmosphere between us as that would make for an awkward situation. Our DD's schoolwork has suffered because of WH leaving and she is having counselling but I feel that certain teachers have not been as supportive to her as they could have been. My WH knows the sitch at school but I don't think he realises quite how bad it has been at times. So tomorrow is about her and we have to put on a united front, I will save my reply til Friday.

I did laugh at the emotional blackmail part of his mail because if stating all the wonderful things he has ready for them isn't blackmail, I don't know what is!

I think I am doing a pretty good job of keeping him off guard as he has called a few times for small things and sent a few tm and I am always cheerful and friendly when I reply even if he is rather abrupt. The calls are always short and mostly unnecessary but I can hear it in his voice that he is expecting me to go off on one!

I see what you mean about our false recovery, there must be some emotional need that I didn't fulfill over the 2 days he was here. The only thing I can think of at the moment is that OW has a good job whereas I gave up a good job to look after our DD's and only had a small parttime job since. This was always a major arguing point in our R as money was always tight but my POV was that DD's are more important than money. I am not working at the moment as I would really like to get some qualifications so that I can get a well paid job and make sure my DD's don't suffer because of WH A.

I can see that this is probably still a major issue to WH as he could not understand that I would not be happy working in a local supermarket fulltime when what I wanted to do was to study so that I could get a good job that I enjoyed. I shall be starting a course after the holidays and will probably have to get a parttime job as well as I'm sure we won't have enough money to cover everything if I don't.

I take your point about helping others. From when I was a child I used to do charity work but this stopped in my teenage years so perhaps it's something I should be doing again.

Tarnsy
Posted By: tarnsy Re: My story of how I came to MB - 07/04/07 01:32 PM
Here is my reply to WH's email concerning visitation. I haven't sent it yet so changes can be made if necessary.


WH, I received your email. I’m so sad that you feel like this.

I have not tried to turn the girls against you, you are my husband and their father and I don’t want them to feel bad about you. I am just trying to protect our daughters. The hurt that they felt when you first left us has returned as they feel as I do that you left us again when you decided to return to the OW. The realization that this is it now and that their dad is not going to be there in the mornings or when they come home from school ever again has hit us all hard and the pain continues to grow.

No-one has emotionally blackmailed DD. As soon as she was told about your current living arrangement she said herself that she’d never see you. I have only told her the truth, and that is that you are a married man and it is wrong for married men to have girlfriends and/or live with OW. If telling the girls about the things they would have at her house isn’t blackmail, I don’t know what is.

As for the visitation schedule, if the hours are too long then by all means bring them home early. You managed to entertain them successfully whilst you stayed at your mums as I know you didn’t stay at her house with them so that they didn’t get in her way. This is no different; you just have a different address.

Despite how much you have hurt them, your children still love you. If you truly love your children your priority should be to make them feel safe and secure. Having an OW around does NOT make them feel safe and secure.

My husband would not want to see his family suffer this way, to my recollection he could not understand men who left their families and said he would never do that. I do not think he would be happy to see how much his actions have affected them all as while he doesn’t live with them, he cannot possibly know.

Love

T
Posted By: tarnsy Re: My story of how I came to MB - 07/06/07 11:11 AM
Saw WH last night at DD's parents evening which wasn't as bad as expected, most of her teachers said that they had noticed a decline in her work but that she has great ability. Although I had informed the school of the sitch at home, some didn't know and I had to tell them how badly affected she had been by it all so I think now that they know things should get better for her.

WH was supportive and didn't try to deny that out sitch had anything to do with DD's decline in grades, I don't think even a WS could not see how she has been affected. WH and I chatted about his family, DD's first dancing lesson and general stuff even managing to laugh and joke. All in all a friendly couple of hours spent, despite the fact that WH had sent me an email detailing the bills he will no longer be paying now that he has moved in with OW. WH probably thought that I would be moody and not speak to him but I was the opposite!

I received an email from him this morning telling me that he is going to the hospital today for a colon cancer screening. This is a shock although he has had problems in that area for several years including being diagnosed with diverticulitis and having to have a large part of his colon removed. I wish that I could be there for him as I know how worried he'll be although he won't show it. Fingers crossed that he gets the all clear.

He also added this as a reply to my last email to him:

"I read your last email in detail. It’s just so hard Tarnsy, so, so hard. Millions of ppl world wide have to deal with the same situation we find our family in, and most get on with it. Looks like we are in a head lock on this matter and I don’t know how we can move forward. Reducing the time is fine but not ok. I just don’t know.

I want the girls to stay over but understand where you all come from (I think). B*gger, p*ss b*ll*cks and sh*t."


Looks like we have come to a truce for the time being!
Posted By: womanoffaith5 Re: My story of how I came to MB - 07/09/07 05:54 PM
Back at my desk today, wondering how you are doing. Your posts sound great.

By the way – that lovely compliment from Bob brought a tear to my eye. It is just so nice to be able to help people through such a tough time in their lives, and remind them that there is hope.

I want to reply to this post of yours:
“I see what you mean about our false recovery, there must be some emotional need that I didn't fulfill over the 2 days he was here.”

Do not think this for another minute. For one thing, no one can meet another persons EN’s all the time, every single day. A false recovery usually happens when the WS is still in contact with the OP. I suspect that in your case, your WH was still trying to play both sides of the fence. Recovery with you, but still talking to her. A little bit of “keeping his options open with her” just in case recovery did not work out. Also, many times a WH feels pity for the OW, and tries to keep in contact with her to let her down easy. I am certain that she comes from some sort of horrid past. She has likely told him that she was abused as a child, she has been hurt by men before, she is very fragile, and needs a knight in shining armor to ride in and save her. That is part of the allure of an A for many men – becoming the hero to the OW. Especially if he one of his EN’s is for admiration. Your recovery was false because he was still in contact with her – and he expected things to be easy. He was not ready for the truly hard work yet. Now he will live with her and be completely miserable. That will be good. It will give him the encouragement to really work at recovery.

Also – don’t rush to the conclusion that his need is for financial support, so you need to get a good paying job. Have the two of you ever had a genuine discussion about this? Not just a fight, when money is tight, but a real discussion?

This comment by him:

“I read your last email in detail. It’s just so hard Tarnsy, so, so hard. Millions of ppl world wide have to deal with the same situation we find our family in, and most get on with it.”

The thing he is learning right now, is that millions of ppl deal with this – but it is HORRIBLE! Here again, OW has been telling him a bunch of lies. Things like “it will be hard at first, but she will get over it. The kids will be better off! They will see their Dad happy, and eventually everyone will be better off. This sort of thing happens all the time”
While it is true that this sort of thing happens a lot – it is not true that most just get on with it. They fake like everything is ok, but everyone here knows better.

He still suffer financially – most OW will convince the WH that things will be great after the D is final. But they never fully recover financially. It was a struggle to pay the bills for your 1 household. How on earth will he make it supporting two? And child support will cripple his finances for many, many years.

Also – the stigma that comes with dumping your family for an OW is very hard for a good man to live with. Your WH sees old friends in public, and tries to avoid them. I am sure that he was very nervous going to DD’s parent meeting the other night. Fearful that one of the teachers may confront him for abandoning his family. Holidays will be constant reminders of time spent together, as a family. YOU are the wife of his youth – the mother of his children. You share a history with him that she will never have. He knows that at night, when he is trying to sleep. He hopes that things will get better, but they don’t.
There are things going on right now, behind the scenes, that you do not know about yet. For me, I fully believe that God is working on your behalf, showing your WH the truth. Someday, you will hear stories of things that happened to him while he was gone, that helped him to see his path home. For now, you think he is enjoying a fun, party life. But it just isn’t the case.

Hang in there. Are you getting ready for Plan B?
Do you know anything more about the OW yet?
Posted By: WhoMe Re: My story of how I came to MB - 07/09/07 06:13 PM
Ternsy,

I have read this thread and have a great deal of admiration for you. You are handling the most difficult painful situation that can be inflicted on anyone, and you are doing so with grace and dignity.

I truly hope and pray that your WH will see the light before it is too late. I fear that if he doesn't, in the end he will be the one to suffer most.

You know, last Fall my FWH and I were invited by our DD to a birthday party for my XH. We split up nearly 18 years ago and he remarried before the ink was dry. His second marriage lasted a nanosecond. Since then he has dated an on-going series of truly disappointing women. At the birthday party, our daughter pointed out the latest conquest. On our way home, I mentioned to FWH that she seemed nice. He said, "but she's not you, and XH will never be satisfied with anyone who isn't."

It is sad. He is sad. And I wish that it hadn't ended up this way. It isn't even gratifying that FWH saw a glimpse of his own future if we can't recover.

Who
Posted By: tarnsy Re: My story of how I came to MB - 07/09/07 07:17 PM
Hi WOF, hope you had a great vacation and are feeling refreshed.

When WH stayed over for the two days, he had not actually ended his R with OW, he did that the next day and then had no contact with me other than email so he was still very much in the A although he was my H during those 2 days.

I agree with you that his line about "millions of other people go through this" definitely sounds like something OW has said to WH to try to get him to fight with me over DD's meeting her, but it hasn't worked. His last email said that he can see where I am coming from so for now at least we are in agreement. Although I do wonder if he has some ulterior motive and is just trying to pacify me for his own reasons. Still, I'll give him the benefit of the doubt for now.

I am going to see about any money I am entitled to tomorrow as I wont be able to start a job for a few weeks as I am having minor surgery at the end of this month. I took my DD7 to her second dancing lesson on Sat and my old teachers were there and invited to become a dancing instructor so I think as soon as I have recuperated I will start training. It's something I've always loved so I might as well get paid for doing something I enjoy. Then I will be able to work out how much money WH needs to give me each month and I think he might have a nasty surprise! He also takes with him all the credit card bills and loans so he is going to be paying out alot more than before.

Since Thursday he has been contacting me alot via email, phone and text, mostly about nothing in particular and on saturday came round to see DD's but spent most of the time in another room talking to me about family and business stuff. Tonight he took DD13 to a cash and carry, sent me a text saying he had a surprise for me that "is better than you know what!" and came home with a tub of my favourite ice-cream (which is hard to get) that we used to eat together on the sofa. He seems to be more thoughtful now than he was when we were together!

As for plan B, I have intermadiaries ready and aware of the sitch and once the finances are in place and WH agrees to the amount I want, I will be ready physically. Dont know if I'll be ready emotionally though especially while he is being so nice.

As for OW, I have not found out anything new but I haven't caught up with my friend who may be able to get some info for me.

Thx for pointing out that WH is probably not having as easy a time of all this as I often imagine he is. He is a good man, or H was anyway, and I know that he is uncomfortable being an adulterer and how he is perceived by others. He told me on Saturday that he is planning to see a psychic! This is not something he would have done before but his brother (who ended his marriage NY day!) went to see this pyschic and apparently she knew things that no-one could have known. She also told BIL that his marriage will never get better than it is so BIL, who was thinking of getting back with his W, has decided not to. I think that WH is hoping for something similar! It would help to relieve his guilt if he could say "see, the pyschic said I did the right thing in leaving family". Of course, she might say the complete opposite!
Posted By: tarnsy Re: My story of how I came to MB - 07/09/07 07:29 PM
WhoMe, thx for taking the time to read my thread and for commenting. Believe me, I didn't handle this sitch with grace and dignity in the beginning! I was a complete emotional wreck for almost 3mths and did not cope very well at all.

I went from virtually begging WH to come back to not being able to look at him or even hear his voice when he spoke to DD's on the phone. According to MB principles I did everything you shouldn't do! It was only once I got myself sorted out emotionally (thx to a wonderful counsellor and AD's) that I started to change my outlook and see that what doesn't kill you makes you stronger.

That seems like a long time ago now and I don't like to reflect on that time too much!

I hope that one day I too will be able to talk about my FWH like you. Is there anywhere I can read your story?
Tarnsy,

Well, not really. The sad man is my XH. I am trying to recover my marriage with FWH #2, some gals have all the luck!

In a nutshell, my FWH husband had a lengthly EA with a former college roommate who lives 3000 miles away, it ultimately became an 8-month PA that pretty much died a natural death. OW helped kill it by LBing all over the place.

I plan A'ed like crazy, trying to get my WH to just be civil, without knowing he was in an A. Eventually, I got tired of his constant anger and unpleasantness and simply started living my life independent of him. Dinner with female friends, the theater etc. He sensed that I was moving on and it scared him badly. Guess maybe he finally saw that he might just lose me.

I think he spent about 4 months trying to end the A, with OW holding on for dear life and threatening all the way. I found out after it had ended, although there was still phone and email contact since OW worked for him as a free lance writer. That ended a few days after d-day and the undying love OW had pledged turned ugly in the blink of an eye.

She claimed sexual harrassment and tryed to file a law suit against his company.

Along the way, I made every mistake possible, took no AD's, had no counseling, tried to keep it private so I had no one to talk to, and didn't find MB until 15 months after d-day.

We went thru all the classic stages attempting to find recovery, including a MC who told me I just needed to get over it.

Fast forward to a couple of months ago when I discovered that FWH was again contemplating starting up a new email friendship with a divorced high school classmate who lives on the other side of the world. It was like dejaveau, some lessons are hard to grasp. He thought he hadn't done anything wrong because he hadn't actually sent her an email when I found out.

I got him to post here as to what he had done and he got the snot beat out of him by both FBS and FWS's here. He finally saw what I had been trying to show him and we are very carefully working our way towards recovery. This time with the help of counseling with Jennifer.

I remain very cautiously optimistic. But like you, I will get thru this either way.

You take care, this is tough stuff, as you know. I have two grown daughters and I think if my SIL ever did this to my DD, I might just run over him with my SUV!

Who
Quote
planning to see a psychic!


Please, start praying about this!
I can not think of anything more hazerdous to your M right now. some stranger, who doesn't know either one of you, is going to charge your WH money to tell him how to live his life. I feel so bad for him. he must be really, really desperate. Pray that he will not follow through with this. And if he does follow through, pray that the psychic will give him such a ridiculous response, he will see it all as a huge mistake.

Isn't a psychic just supposed to predict the future - as in "I predict that you will leave your loving wife". it sounds like this one is giving out M advice "things will never get better, I suggest you just leave" Doesn't a psychic just "see" the future - not give out M advice?

Please, start praying. Even a simple "God please help me"
this is scary territory - and you do not want any part of it.
I don't really know what to think about him going to see a psychic. WH has never really believed in that sort of thing so for him to go he has to be feeling confused imo. I think maybe he wants someone to tell him what to do next as he doesn't like having to take the responsibility for what he has done. He is normally very responsible but WH obviously didn't do the responsible thing so this sitch doesn't sit easily with him and probably plays on his conscience.

Finally sorted out what benefits I'm going to get altho I don't know the amounts yet. As soon as I know how much I'm going to get then I can start discussions with WH about how much he should be paying towards DD's. So I'm getting things sorted for plan B.

WH came round today to see DD's and altho he wasn't unfriendly, he didn't hang around and didn't really talk to me. How is it that one day WH is almost H again and being nice and the next he is cool and aloof? It's confusing to say the least, it makes it hard to know how to deal with him as I don't know who he is going to be from one day to the next!
Quote
How is it that one day WH is almost H again and being nice and the next he is cool and aloof? It's confusing to say the least


I do not really understand this either. It is very typical.
but I think that in reality, the cool and aloof attitude is probably a better "sign". it means he is struggling, stressed, guilty, not sleeping, etc.

when he is nice and friendly, I think that he is probably feeling content with himself, and the way things are. And that is a bad thing. he should not feel content to live with another woman, seperated from his family.

I would also suggest, when you say that he is almost H again, in reality, as long as he lives with her - he is still in the fog, the addiction. And he is not H again - yet. So during those times when he is friendly, there is likely some other explanation. I don't say that to make you worry - I say that more to make you cautious, so that the changes in behavior are not so hard to predict.

Remember, plan B will help you to preserve the last remaining love you have for him. As you can see, when he comes around acting aloof, and cool, it chips away at your love for him,and makes you feel like telling him to just go away and leave you alone. So watch for that. you do not want to lose that last of your love bank.

I remember that when my WxH was nice to me, I would start to get worried, because I always knew that if he was nice to me one day, that he would follow it up with some big blow up the next day that would leave me crying. I think that when things are going well, and they start to feel their romantic feelings return for you, it scares them, and they start to freak out. So if your WH has gone back to being a brat, then it is a good sign that he is conflicted.
Tarnsy

I agree 100% with WOF5's comments. I know from experience with WH -- when he was in a good mood, it usually meant he was in contact with OMW while still living with me (ie cake-eating)! When he was cold or distant, it was an indication that he was struggling with his situation because he was not having contact with her (or maybe he was just pouting <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />!)
WH took me to my hosp appt this morning and the subject of DD's staying over came up again (truce didn't last long!). OW is going away to visit her mother next weekend so WH asked if it would be OK for DD's to stay over. Told him I haven't changed my mind and I don't want our DD's shunting from one house to another but he is more than welcome to stick to previously arranged schedule.

WH is still in denial that his A started before he left home. I asked him to at least respect me enough to tell the truth but he still can't see that emails and texts constitute an EA. He brought up the subject of money and I told him that if he has any queries he should speak to my solicitor, he said fine, I replied "I don't talk divorce, I only talk marriage reconciliation". He said "I don't talk divorce either" to which I replied "yes but you don't talk marriage reconciliation do you". He had no response for that

Found out from a friend yesterday that WH and OW were seen in the local shops where I go 2/3 times a week. I emailed WH that I knew this and respectfully asked him not to go there with her again as this is my safe area and I don't need to be wondering if I'm going to bump into the "2" of them. They don't live around here and there are plenty of shops near them they can go to without fear of bumping into me so I just asked him to show me the same courtesy. Told him he'd end up with a wife with a criminal record if I saw them lol!

Wh replied saying that he heard what I was saying about the shop so hopefully I will not be put in the position of turning into the fruit and veg aisle and instead finding myself at the "cheap tart" counter!
well done
Honestly, he is very lucky to have you.

this comment is very interesting:
Quote
He said "I don't talk divorce either"


I don't think this man can see himself as a "divorced man". I think that is a very good thing. Your Plan B is going to be very effective.

You are really doing a great job at setting your boundaries:
Quote
I emailed WH that I knew this and respectfully asked him not to go there with her again as this is my safe area and I don't need to be wondering if I'm going to bump into the "2" of them.


this is just perfect.
I wonder why they would go to a shop where they could likely bump into you? Perhaps the OW is hoping to bump into you? wants you to know that they really are a "couple". I remember once when my WxH's OW called me on the phone to say "Look, WH and I are now 'WH and OW'. you two are no longer a couple. we are. So get over it". I was horrifed!. I told her to never talk to ME about MY H in that manner again. If she had something to say - she should say it to her BF, but she was not welcome to call me.
I never quite figured out what her purpose was - other than trying to establish her teritory. Like a Dog when he pees on a bush!

I also remember some of the postings from "Lostva". her WH moved in with his OW in another town 1 hour away, and yet he brought her to the same Dr that Lostva went to - shopping at the same stores. he was an hour away! I wonder if the WH is just trying so hard to re-gain some type of familiar territory. Very intersting.
Hi WOF,

I hope you are right about WH not being able to see himself as a divorced man, this is what I think as well. He has said several times that he doesn't want a divorce but does he expect us to stay like this forever, still married but living separate lives?

Thx for saying that I'm doing a great job. It's only because of all the wonderful advice I'm getting here. I couldn't believe it when a friend said she had seen them in my local shop, I didn't think they'd have the nerve especially as WH knows that I know several of the staff and they all know that he left me for OW. I think your theory that the OW was hoping to "bump" into me is probably correct. Is it not enough that they steal your husband, try to push themselves onto your children that they then have to try to invade your home territory? This really is a war isn't it?
You really need to find out more about this OW. I think you will be surprised at what you find out.

Right now, I suspect that you have a little bit of a fear of the unknown. Surely she must be prettier, skinnier, whiter teeth, well educated, speak several languages, good at sports, gourmet cook, etc. After all, if you WH would abandon his wife and children, she must be simething really special.

But I promise you - she is not that special. After all, she couldn't "get a man" on her own. She had to go after a married man, who was feeling vulernable, and perhaps a little depressed. She fed into his every insecurity. figured out all the right things to say, and built up his ego. That is how the addiction first starts - she says all the right things, he feels good about himself, and he is hooked on her jsut like a crack addict.

I think (I hope) that it would be helpful to you to find out that she is nothing special. We all ready know that she has serious issues with her own insecurity - why else would she go after a married man?

this board is full of posts from BW's who were shocked to discover that the OW was fatter, not as attractive, etc.
And at first, it is shocking. you wonder why. Why her.

But I think that is part of the attraction for a WH. She looks up to him, she thinks he is a great catch, she flatters him all the time.

You need to find out a little bit more about this OW. I have a feeling it will surprise you.
It is DD's 8th birthday today. I asked her last night what she thought she would get for her birthday and she said "Well I'm hoping for Daddy to come home but I'm not expecting it". She nearly reduced me to tears! Didn't really know what to say except that I understand and that I wish I could give her that but I can't.

WH came by this morning b4 school to say happy birthday and will be round later to see her. He at least had the decency to have a tear in his eye as he read her cards. I don't think I could live with myself if I missed one of my DD's opening their presents and not see their smiles of delight. He knows what he is missing but it makes no diffference.

We are having a party on Saturday and WH is attending that even though it's not his weekend to see them. I have been feeling a little down today but I know it's only because it's DD's birthday and we always made a fuss of making it a special day and this year he is not here to share it with us.
Neaks Thread


You need to read this thread - I think your WH sounds very similar to this one
Thx for the thread link WOF, I have read it and can see similarities but wonder if my WH is more entrenched in his A as he and the OW are living together. This is going to make any attempts at recovery more difficult imvho. Is there a thread that carrys on from where this one left off, I'm eager to learn more of Neaks story.

Have just spent 3hrs with WH at DD's birthday party and managed to keep things light and chatty until we got home. I probably LB'd by asking how things were in "Affair land", he didn't answer at first but I said I was just trying to be polite as he was the one who wanted to be friends. After a while he said "not too bad, what about you?". I replied "I'm fine but I don't live in affair land, I live in reality". It's just so hard to spend time with him when I just want to hold him and tell him I love him. Knowing that he leaves his family to go back to OW is getting too much for me to handle

Forgot to say, at DD's party one of the children went up to WH and asked "Who do you love?" WH replied "myself". He was then asked "who's your girlfriend?", WH didn't answer. Next question was "who's your wife?", WH pointed to me. Had to excuse myself and leave the room at this point as I thought I might cry but managed to hold the tears in. Out of the mouths of babes eh?!
sorry that I didn't get a chance to post sooner!
there is another thread - I will go back and find the link for you. it is titled something like "a few things can make it through the fog"

I know there are some differences in your situation - her WH did not move in with OW. But that is not a bad thing for you - your WH is getting the full OW experience,and there is no way that it is going well. Think about it. he is living in an aprtment - with very little of his own stuff. No daughters - none of the comforts of home. There is a certain comfort that comes with being surrounded by your own "things". The towels he has used for years, the blankets, the chairs. all of that represents home.

What is interesting to me - is that your WH is not disconnected from you, or your M. He does not talk D - most WH are ancious to get a D so they can "start all over". he brings you ice cream. what would OW say if she knew about that?
I am not sure why he is haning onto her - I suspect that he feels sorry for her. But pity is never a good foudnation for a R.

he still wants to see you - talk to you - have a R with you. he does not want to give all that up. A good, strong, Plan B will show him what life will be like, if he continues down this path.
Hi WOF,

It does seem that WH wants to keep me in his life even if only on the ouside and Plan B will definitely show him how things will be without me.

On Sunday, WH picked up eldest DD from a party and brought her home and then enquired about DD8 last night at Girls Brigade the following day. Told him it was a family night and he said why don't I go to. As I was due to have dental surgery that morning I said I probably wouldn't be up to it. As it turned out surgery wasn't too bad so when he picked DD's up he said again to go with them. DD8 wanted me to go so I did.

Whilst in the car on the return journey he had a slip of the tongue and called me darling (as we used to call each other) and then said "whoops I mean tarnsy." I looked at him, he looked at me, I turned away. He looked at me again with an expression that kind of said "What?" He didn't look like someone who had made a mistake, who was embarrassed at saying the wrong thing.

Due to the surgery I decided to give up smoking as I knew it wouldn't be a good idea to smoke with open wounds in my mouth! Told WH this and he TM 3 times this morning to see how I was getting on and said he was proud of me. It's difficult but am using patches to help so the cravings aren't as bad as I thought they would be! Sometimes on this rollercoaster ride cigarettes have been my crutch to get through this so it will be interesting to see how I manage without them! Wish me luck!
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I decided to give up smoking


this is REALLY good news!

for your own health, for the girls, and also for your M.

Does WH smoke????
WH used to be a serious weed smoker until new year. He gave up for her but wouldn't for me! OW doesn't approve of smoking but WH still smokes tobacco although not a lot. Don't know how he gets rounds this at her house!
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OW doesn't approve of smoking but WH still smokes tobacco


Aha.Huge love buster from her. I suspect he goes outside to smoke, but when he walks back into the apartment, she sitll smells it. Not good for their A.

One of the things that you want to do right now, is show WH that you are moving forward with your life, making positive changes, with or without him. Stopping smoking will be huge for you. That is one of the biggest positive changes you can make. And he is clearly trying to support that effort. Keep up the good work - this is going to be huge for you.

I must express a slight concern regarding his use of marijuana right up to the time of his A.It is possible that he has traded one addiction (weed) for another (OW). I pray that he is able to give up both addictions and not just substitute for a third.
Yeah, addictive personalities seem to be rife in WH family, his brother is an alcoholic, and it seem that WH is becoming a workaholic or at least he's always telling me he is working evenings and weekends. Of course I know this may not be true but WH has always been a hard worker and as he now runs his own business it is even more important that he puts in extra hours.

I do hope that OW is LBing on the smoking, but worry that WH will just do whatever OW wants and asks of him. We all remember how we act when in a new relationship and will do anything to make the other person happy, I just hope WH is getting to the end of this honeymoon period and starts seeing things as they really are altho I don't hold out much hope for that happening for a while.
Not a lot to report the last few days. WH has sent a few texts in support of my giving up smoking, I have replied and have been putting kisses at the end of my messages. WH has not commented on this so I will continue. At least he hasn't told me not to lol!

I received an email today re the weekend arrangements as it his turn to have the girls.

"I will pick the girls up after f1 quaily, but I will check time first, if it finishers too late then I will come and get the girls earlier, about 1.

I will keep them until early evening, I would love to cook for them, but alas you won’t let them come over. I will feed them out.

Can you get their swimming stuff ready, just in case we go swimming?

I hope to watch the race on Sunday 12-3pm. *** is coming over to watch it with me, the girls are welcome but I know you will not allow that!

I did not if you remember agree to your schedule but said I would have the girls as often as possible or as often as you allow me!

I still respect the fact that you will not let them stay over, but I don’t like it and the longer it goes on the more I dislike it!



What do you have planed for the weekend?"

Here is my reply:

"I'm sorry that you still don't like fact that the girls will not be staying over at the OWs house. I know it is hard but it is something that is not going to change and you will have to get used to. I still don't like the fact that you live with an OW but that is something I am having to get used to so I know how you feel. You know what you can do to rectify the situation, there is still a place for you here, for the time being.

I will get their swimming things ready but don't forget that DD8 has a party to go to as mentioned in my previous email.

Hope you have a good time watching the GP.

love t"

Obviously will see WH tomorrow and will continue to plan A as much as it is possible in the short time he is here. Do you have any advice WOF? I really appreciate your support during all this as I think my most of my friends and family are of the mind that I should just forget about WH and move on.

Thx Tarnsy
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I still respect the fact that you will not let them stay over, but I don’t like it and the longer it goes on the more I dislike it!



What an [censored]! He dislikes it the more this goes on. What nerve! I never cease to be amazed at these waywards when in the midst of their fantasy land excursions.
H&P,

Hopefully if he continues to dislike it then it will make him think about the consequences of his actions and maybe cause some LBing between him and OW! WH had previously stated that he understood why I won't let DD's meet OW so it might be that WH and OW disagree. What a shame!!

Am of the mind that PBL time is coming soon. I am finding it difficult to do the plan A stuff at the mo as it is so hard to be near him when I know he has been with OW. I forget that I am his wife and feel more and more like a stranger and it's not a good feeling.
I don't have any great suggestions. Basically, you just need time to pass. Their R will never last. I know that is hard to belive at this point - but it is the truth. if you can somehow convince yourself of that, and then go about your own live, not worrying about him, you will be better off. I know, hard to do.
At this point - you will become your own worst enemy. the more details you hear about him, and her, the more anger you will feel, and the more disgust. And then, when the A finally does end, you won't care anymore. For those of us who end up divorced on this baord - it is not because our WS moved on to a better life. it is because we became so disgusted with their immoral behavior that we finally couldn't stand the sight of them.

My WxH is married to OW#2 (we were divorced when he started seeing her, but she was not. For months she went back and forth bewteen her H and WxH). I am quite certain that my wxH is not "truly happy", becuase frankly, he was never willing to work at it. I once commented that "M is a lot of work, and we both needed to be ready to commit to that" and his response was "Well, it shouldn't be a lot of work. And if it is a lot of work, that just means you are with the wrong person. It would never be hard with OW#1!"

I think that was one of the final moments for me - that helped me file for D. That is when I figured he was just too stupid to ever build a better M. he was destined to fail again.

So the question for you is this: Can you seperate yourself from the stupid things he says right now? Because some words stay with you for years, and continue to ring in your ears. If you can not seperate yourself from his stupid comments - then I would suggest plan B.

You will hear a lot about what plan B "is" and "is not". There is a lot to it. But one thing it will do is seperate yoruself from hearing anymore of his crap. Becuase time needs to pass. And it will pass. And as it passes, the OW and he will grow weary of each other. it happens ALL THE TIME. no matter how much they have tried to combine their lives together - this A will end. And frankly, most end with a lot of money paid out. large cell phone bills. a lease signed for their love nest, that needs a large check to get out of it. Dinners out togheter, charged to a credit card, in order to try to save their dying R. All of this stuff adds up. And still - they will fail.

Your biggest concern right now should be - can you hang onto your love for him?
Tarnsy,

I tried to find my PBL and addendums before I left on this trip, but didn't have any luck yet. Now that I'm finally back into internet signal again, if a bit patchy, maybe I'll have better luck.

Have you starteda a PBL yet? What sorts of things would you need to arrange ahead of time to have NC with him?

It does sound like you are ripe for the peace and tranquility of a good Plan B.
WOF, Neak,

Thx for your replys. Saw WH yesterday as he was due to have DD's, instead of taking them out he stayed here and spent much of the time talking to me. Plan A'd in the beginning but ended up talking about money as he wanted to know if I knew how much support I will be getting from the social. WH said how he cannot afford to keep paying for 2 homes and I told him that is something he should have thought about before moving in with OW.

I told WH that I had always said that I didn't want to be a single parent but he had forced it onto me and that it felt that DD's and I were the ones having to pay for his R with OW. Now I am going to have to get a better paid job (WH said that this was something he's always wanted) and have less time to spend with DD's so he can have more money to spend on OW and her house!

WH also finally admitted that he knew when he left that he would be with OW altho he strenuously denied it in the weeks immediately after Dday. I told him I was not responsible for the A to which he replied that I was partly to blame and had said as such! I told him, no, I was partly responsible for him being in a place where he was vulnerable to an A but from the day he met her my responsibilty ended, I was not the one who had an A and put the final nail in the coffin of our marriage. Also told him that if he had not met OW he would still be home.

The conversation ended there as DD came in and no more was said.

As for plan B, I have wriiten the letter and will post it later as have to go to hosp in a mo to have a cervical erosion cauterised.

WH still has all his things here in our home altho I don't think that there is anything he will need, after all he's been gone 8mths and hasn't needed it thus far, do you think this will get in the way of plan B? Plus, I still have a couple of things I need to find and send to the relevant agencies re the money I am entitled to while I'm not working.

The other thing is, I'm having surgery on Friday and will be out of action for a few days. I'm worried that if I'm in plan B at that time that I won't be able to do much to take my mind of things. I keep reading how important it is to keep occupied during the 1st days of plan B and I'll be laid up in bed with not a lot to keep my mind off things.

What do you think?

Tarnsy
My concern is you are not in a plan right now. This is NOT a Plan A, and not a Plan B, but a mix of them both and that NEVER works.

You are moving towards Plan B...yes, good move, but what are you going to leave him with when you make the move? Resentment? Tactical strategerizing (to misquote a president)?

Yes, it is clear a Plan B may be needed, but if you move to Plan B after the cold conversations and lack of affection, he will say "good riddance".

How much love do you have left? What do you want to leave him with...what do you want him to think about...what do you want to show him what life wold be back with you when he chooses you again...what will keep him up nights thinking about after he is fighting with the OW? What goo dmemeories will he be left with? What will he hope to return to...more of the demands, Tarns in control?

What would a Plan A look like? What would you like your marriage to be like, and what part of it do YOU need to show him.

I haven't been following your sitch for long, so pardon me if you have been doing a stellar Plan A. But if you have, you are spoiling it at the end here...
StillHere,

I see what you are saying. I think I did a pretty good plan A up until the last week. It's just that whenever I see him I end up thinking that he's been with OW or he's rushing off to be with her and it makes me sad. Thats why I feel that plan B is needed.

WH contacts me just about everyday via email, phone or text plus he comes to our home to see DD's at least 2x a week and it means that on occasion, some subject comes up that leads to me saying something I shouldn't. We don't argue or anything, it's just an overwhelming feeling of sadness and loss and I want him to know how he continues to hurt us.

I know, I must try harder to keep my mouth shut!

So, do you think I should try to do a better plan A for the time being before stepping into the darkness?
Yes, better Plan A before the darkness, but also, be honest about those feelings...with him...you are having.
I wouldn't dwell on them, but a simple, "I'm feeling a bit sad today because I found a picture of us on vacation" or "Sorry if I was snipey, I find my temper is short these days worrying about the future." I wouldn't dwell or place blame about these things, they are honest emotions, speak them and then go on with the conversation.

If it is a bad time to talk, tell him, make plans to talk later. Have conversations that aren't just about logistics. Call or txt...just because. Spend time with him, if he'll let you. Do this as long as you can...and it looks like your time is short. I even got to the point I said to my WH, "It is hard talking with you knowing you love someone else, I don't know how long I can keep this up."

Good Luck! Plan A is VERY tough.
Posted By: tarnsy Re: My story of how I came to MB - 07/26/07 12:26 PM
Hi guys,

WOF, as the person who has supported me all the way thru this thread, do you think I should plan A some more? I value your opinion. In one way I think I should so that I can make up for our last interaction when I may have LB'd, but then I think that it is getting difficult to see him without saying something that I might be better of in plan B. Having surgery tomorrow is another reason to not go to plan B as I won't be able to keep busy.

Neak, would love to see your PBL, I believe I've read that you are a writer so your input on my PBL would be invaluable.

Wh has been quiet the last couple of days, just 1 call to check on DD's. When he dropped DD's off from his last visit I told DD's to give WH a big hug as they won't see him till Mon. WH asked why is that, I reminded him that this is the usual schedule, to which he replied that he will probably take them out on Sat to buy them the new HP game. I'm wondering why he suddenly wants to see DD's more often, is he just being helpful as he knows I'll be recovering from surgery or does he have an ulterior motive?

My PBL is ready for you all to cast your eye over, if you think I should post it now so that there is time to discuss any changes, let me know.

Tarnsy
It sounds like you may be better off watiign until after your surgery for Plan B.
it is very important in Plan B to have no contact with your H, and for the days right after your surgery, you may need to ask for help.

I would suggest you start a new thread, titled "adivce need on my Plan B letter" and post your letter there.

Frankly - I am not much help with plan B. I skipped plan B and went right to D.
Posted By: tarnsy Re: My story of how I came to MB - 08/02/07 05:58 PM
Hi there,

recovery from surgery is going well but very boring! I'm sitting here with my feet up and it's not very comfortable trying to type!

Have just found out that my intermediaries are going on holiday on Saturday so will have to postpone plan B for a couple of weeks so in the meantime I could use some support as I continue to implement plan A.

WH tm'd whilst I was in hospital to wish me well and came round the next day to see DD's even though it was not his weekend. WH took them shopping and they came back with the Harry Potter game for the Nintendo DS, HP Scene It DVD game and the new HP book! And I got a bottle of wine!

Normal schedule for WH to see DD's was kept to for Mon and Tues and have had phone calls and email from WH. He called today to check on whether our DD13 is keeping to her homework schedule and WH asked how I was. Told him I had been sleepy today as I had a late night with a friend and a bottle or 2 of wine and that I was kept awake with things going thru my mind. WH asked if I wanted to talk about it and I said no I don't think I should talk to you about you.

WH said "I annoyed you then" I said "no, why should you annoy me?". He replied "I've done more than enough to annoy you", I said "annoy is a bit of an understatement." He asked again if I wanted to talk about it and I again refused.

Should I have said anything? From what I have read on other threads it seems a bit unusual that WH would want to talk about what was on my mind especially as I'd told him it was about him. Should I have said well actually I was crying because I miss you and want you to come home? I don't know how to handle this sort of question as it was so unexpected.

The other thing I've been wondering about is why he only ever contacts me during the working day. He never phones in the evenings altho he does occassionally tm at the weekends. Is he protecting OW by only making contact when she is not around? I feel a bit like I'm being treated as the OW! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />
Tarnsy,

Glad to hear the surgery was successful. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Now take your physical recovery and apply what you know to your personal recovery.

Your H called (not the WS) <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> .... to see how you were. That's good.

You now have his attention. You were a bit shy in responding to him. You can recover from this nicely by maybe sending him a letter or e-mail. Make sure it is addressed to your H's persona and NOT the WS. Critical!!!!

It is ok to let him know you are addressing this response to your real H. Express your appreciation for his concern. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Once you are ready to get into the body of your response, let him know you were a bit taken aback when he called. Since the A, you have been scared of communicating with him since the mood changes were so vast. Then go into your response and say something like one day you would like to speak to your real H. That like your current physical condition surgery was required and once the healing takes place (as it is now), progress can be seen. You feel the same about yourself and your M. Address the facts that there maybe doubts and like your recovery, the success of the surgery had it's risks but it was worth taking. So likewise with your recovery, risks are there but they are certainly worth the effort.

I am sure you are getting this pattern. The point is to give him another POV by applying what you want to say onto another subject. This will help keep his WS anger away from your communication.

This isn't an MB way but it worked for me. I applied MB principals and a few revisions to fit my situation.

Hope this helps.
L.
I have learned a few things over the past few years that could possibly help here...let me know if you think it will.

It seems like you are getting a bit of a response to your Plan A-ness.

Some thing to keep in mind...keep it LIGHT! Stop asking questions about the day to day stressful things in life, too much reality if YOUR relationship will make the OW look better...inject a bit of fantasy I guess. Make jokes, comment on the weird hairdo of your favorite frontman, if you had a million dollars you'd buy everyone ice cream, etc...

Always say YES!!! It can be a "Yes, but...", but make sure it's a YES!!! If he wants to borrow your car, say, "Yes, but I won't have anything to drive..rent a car for me?" Am I annoying? "Yes, but I am probably just as annoying...I can't beleive I want to argue with you to convince you I'm more annoying (wink, smile, change the subject...)"

Treat him like royalty... Does this bother you? Don't worry, you probably can't, too much resentment, but if you began to treat him like royalty, asking permission before doing ANYTHING around him, it's amazing how much it really makes you think about what you are doing around him, and how much you take for granted...how much you assume...and how little you think of yoiur actions around him...

Just some thoughts...
I think your conversation with him went well. Try not to pick apart every little covnersation. remember - he IS your H, and you do know him better than anyone else!

I like the post above suggesting that you ask him about the things you do when he is around. ALL men like to feel "in charge" and respected. I am not suggesting that you allow him to make all of your decisions for you. But involve him in family and household issues - now while you are still in plan A. Things like "I was thinking about moving the sofa to this other wall. What do you think?" and "I was thinking that I may need to get a security system installed. I get nervous when the girls and I are home alone at night"

See what I mean.

Help him to feel like "the man of the house" while you are still in plan A. this is something I have carried over, into my new M. I let my H know that I value his opinion. I don't bug him with the smaller things like "what should I cook tonight" but I do include him on things like "I was thinking about planting a rose bush in the corner. What do you think?"

when you have been married a long time, you tend to get into a certain pattern where you just take care of things around the house on your own, and you don't discuss things with him anymore. Most of the time,as wives, we think we are helping them out be taking care of al the household details without bothering them. but in rality, I think they want to be bothered. They want to feel like they are a valuable member of the household

Just a thought.

and that bit about only calling during work hours? he doesn't want OW to know he is talking to you so often. He isn't trying to protect her. He just wnats to talk to you still, and he knows she would FREAK out if she knew. I know that is a pretty crappy reality. but think of this - he has a secret from her, and it keeps a wedge between them. He can never completely relax around her. he has a secret to hide. That must be a miserable way for him to live.
Posted By: tarnsy Re: My story of how I came to MB - 08/03/07 10:04 AM
Thanx everyone for your responses. I feel that I will need to keep reading the above suggestions so that they can sink in as there is a lot of stuff there to think about.

Orchid, I will respond to WH via email in the manner you suggest. I have been scared to tell WH how I really feel and as I understand plan A, I shouldn't anyway. He rejected me for OW a 2nd time just a couple of months ago so I am afraid to open up to him in fear of being hurt again.

Still, I shall endeavour to inject a little fantasy into my conversations with WH, it is not something that comes easy to me, altho I have a pretty good sense of humour I can be a little on the serious side. Our convo's lately are mostly about his business, his brothers problems and our DD's of course. We have a mutual interest in sci-fi so perhaps I can use this as a way to make things more light-hearted.

As for treating him like royalty, I like the idea of that. It is not something that I have done for many years and I think WH would respond well to this.

WOF, I shall try to think of things that I can ask WH's help or advice on. I have always asked him for help in the past but I think that it was interpreted as nagging as I'd ask him to do something and it wouldn't get done so had to ask again and again. I have noticed that if I've asked him to do anything since he left that it get's done 9 times out of 10. I did wondeer if I had been too needy and dependent on him and if this was one of the reasons he started the A as from what I can gather about OW, she isn't like this at all. I guess it's about asking in the right way and finding a balance between requesting his opinion/help and not being needy or demanding.

I like the idea that he keeps the quantity of our contact a secret from OW, sound similar to how A's start! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

PS. Does anyone know how I can get my thread back to it's normal size??
Posted By: tarnsy Re: My story of how I came to MB - 08/03/07 10:55 AM
Received a phone call late last night from WH old best mate from his army days who he has had minimal contact with over the years because of hie friends postings. He obviously didn't know that WH had left so I filled him and his wife in on the sitch. They were both very shocked as they had thought that WH was not the sort of person who would have an A and were very supportive to me and invited me and DD's to stay with them when they are settled back in the UK.

Gave them WH's mobile no. so they could speak to him and received this email from WH just now:

"I take it you spoke to my old mate last night.

*** and his wife ****.

He called me at 10.45 and I had a hour and a bit on the phone with him.

A great call, mind you he was pretty pissed at me for obvious reasons!

I won’t go in to detail here. **** had a go at me too.

Talk to u later about it."

I guess WH is "pretty pi**ed" at me for exposing to one of his oldest friends! Can't wait to find out what he wants to say to me about it, after all, I've only told the truth.
Maybe, but I doubt it. My guess is that his mate made sense and he wants to throw you some of the ideas he's thought about.

He is testing the waters with you.

He is testing that if he comes back it won't be as the prisoner who will have to pay for his mistakes throughout the M.

My guess...he will tell you..."*** said this and I believe it." You? Stay quiet or say something like, "I've thought some of the same things."

Every once in awhile you can say to him. I've thought about what a M could be like with you. I think we could make it stronger and better and really put this behind us...

One thing that keeps a WS from coming back is the fear they will have to face their mistake every day...the sadness, guilt, and anger will never go away. The resentment will remain throughout their married life. They know what they are doing is unforgivable...but you know you have it in you to forgive him...just not until he asks for it...
But sometimes they need to know the possibility is there...like stepping on a frozen lake, he wants to know it's not going to crack under his feet...
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PS. Does anyone know how I can get my thread back to it's normal size??

Yes. Take the link out of your subject line. That's what's causing the page to be wider than it should.
Tarnsy,

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He never phones in the evenings altho he does occassionally tm at the weekends. Is he protecting OW by only making contact when she is not around? I feel a bit like I'm being treated as the OW!

FWIW, I don't think that this is all that unusual. This can work to your advantage, if the OW is becoming increasingly demanding and LBing.

In my Sitch, the OW really started to think of herself as the wife and me as the OW. It was really too ridiculous, since she lived 3000 miles away and my FWH never left me. But OW constantly quizzed him about what we did when we were together.

Once, when she asked him what we had done over the weekend, he mentioned that we had his brother and SIL for dinner. Well OW started freaking out and screaming at him about US having a dinner party. He said he hung up the phone.

Indeed, because I was completely unaware of his A while it was going on, I didn't really LB much at all. The more unpleasant he got, I would just walk away rather than argue wih him, and I started spending more time with my women friends. All the while, OW grew increasingly demanding and constantly badgered him to leave me. Once he tried to end the A, she became clingy and began to threaten exposure. From that point forward, it was only a matter of time until he had enough and ended the A.

Tarnsy, methinks that your WH needs that connection to you as a bit of calming normalcy in his increasingly surreal existance. I'll bet when OW finds out he has been in contact with you, that she has screaming fits.

Your Plan B will deprive him of the solice he is now getting from you. IMHO, the days of this affair are short in number. Stay calm and patient!

Bless You,

Who
Still,

spoke to WH on the phone, he said that his mate and his wife both had a go at him for leaving his family and that they were pi**sed off at him. I said that makes 3 of us then. He said "there must be more than that", I replied that I didn't know as his family seemed to support him. He said that they just wanted him to be happy ( <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />). I answered, "so you're out on your own then" to which he replied "yeah, out on a limb".

Will speak to him more tomorrow and get in the things you suggest.
Posted By: tarnsy Re: My story of how I came to MB - 08/03/07 04:45 PM
Princessmeggy,

did what you said but can only edit my posts subject line!
Tarnsy,

That is why it is vital you make sure you secure the audience as your real H and NOT the WS when you speak to him.

As for the WS fearing to come back and face the music, I found that when I told my H that recovery included him 'facing the music' and dealing with it ALONG with helping me get closure, it gave him a goal to work towards.

I mean really, they know we are NOT going to forget so why pretend we will? If you take your H back on the terms it will never be discussed, YOU will suffer and then YOU will want to end the M.

I told my H that we (our family) loves our H and wants him to come home to heal and help us. I informed him that his fear about having the A brought up will happen and the less he participates in our recovery the more it will happen.

See? It worked. I can periodically bring up the A even now. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

L.
Posted By: tarnsy Re: My story of how I came to MB - 08/03/07 05:24 PM
WhoMe,

I'm sure that OW thinks of herself as the wife in as much as she is the one he goes "home" to every night. I don't think she'd like it if she knew how much WH contacted me but then she probably doesn't! I'm sure WH is protecting her the same way he protected me when he was still at home!

Orchid,

I believe that WH is more like H than he has been, only glimpses but he's definitely in there! I reassured WH when we had our shortlived recovery and in the weeks before and after that he wouldn't be "punished" for his A. I told him I wouldn't be able to forget about it but this was a good thing as it would mean that I'd be a better wife and person as I wouldn't want to repeat the experience.

I have told him many times that we love him and want him to come home but not for a few weeks. Do you think I should repeat this statement? It just hurts when he replies, "I know".
Posted By: Orchid Re: My story of how I came to MB - 08/03/07 05:37 PM
No R talk to a WS. Just your H.

I would even hold back on the ILYs for now. Present you and your family as 1 package.

L.
Posted By: StillHereMakingIt Re: My story of how I came to MB - 08/03/07 06:15 PM
That's great, so he has a pretty good idea what the carrot looks like. And it seems he trusts you that the relationship will be OK when he comes back.

The other side of this may be that he thinks he has time...time to change...time to have fun, tarnsy will wait for him...

Be honest with him that you will only hold out as long as your love lasts, and you feel it slipping away every day, and every interaction...so when Plan B starts he knows what is going on, and *hopefully* will feel pressure to make a decision...
Posted By: princessmeggy Re: My story of how I came to MB - 08/03/07 06:16 PM
Quote
Princessmeggy,

did what you said but can only edit my posts subject line!

That's true. I guess you can't change it then. Did you try going back to your very 1st post and changing it? (Not the most recent one.)
Posted By: tarnsy Re: My story of how I came to MB - 08/03/07 07:03 PM
Thanx everyone for your advice, suggestions and support.

Theres lots here for me to think about and digest but got to go and spend some time with DD's while they here as I won't see much of them over the weekend. At least I'll have some time to go over all the information here!

Will probably post over the weekend and thanx everyone again, I don't know if I'd have got this far without everyones help.
Posted By: Orchid Re: My story of how I came to MB - 08/04/07 05:24 PM
Morn' Tarnsy,

How r u doing? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

L.
Posted By: tarnsy Re: My story of how I came to MB - 08/05/07 06:55 PM
Hi Orchid,

Not bad thx for asking.

Saw WH yesterday when he came to pick up DD's and altho he stayed for a couple of hours didn't get much chance to talk as he was watching the Grand Prix. This used to be a huge problem in our M as he would never go anywhere with us when the GP was on which is every other weekend for about 6 or 7 months of the year. I used to LB all over the place about this as I always thought weekends were for family but WH wanted to stay at home in front of the TV.

Yesterday, as on a few other occasions over the last few months, I watched with him and asked questions and generally showed an interest. Hopefully, I scored a few points for this as we were getting along fine.

I asked WH if he had any plans to come and pick up his belongings as everything including most of his clothes are still here. He said that he didn't want to upset anyone by taking them!! I offered to bag them up but he said to let him go though them first. I said "so this sitch is permanent then?" to which he replied "the sitch is the sitch". I asked where he saw himself in 5 years and he said "I don't look that far ahead". Apparently, he only looks 1 week ahead!

I decided to drop the subject as H was turning into WH before my eyes! As he left after dropping off DD's he commented that he is getting fat, I told him that there is just more of him to love. He turned and said "aah" and then proceeded to keep looking at me as he walked away and got into his car.

Today was not so good. WH didn't turn up till nearly 3 to take DD8 to a party (according to our schedule he has them from 11) as he was watching, yes you've guessed it, the Grand Prix. He had told me he wouldn't come till then and I didn't say anything about it but I did expect him to make up for it by taking DD's out later. Of course he didn't. WH brought DD8 back just after 5 and said "I'll just have a few minutes with DD13".

I was not pleased but tried to keep a lid on it. Asked him if he wanted a drink and took it to him in DD's bedroom. Asked WH why he couldn't take DD's out to which he stated that there was nowhere to take them. I listed off some places we used to go as a family but apparently these were not satisfactory. Wh said "this is supposed to be my weekend to have them but you won't let me have them at the house", I replied "you know why I won't let them go to HER house and I'm not going to change my mind".

DD13 then said "why can't we go if OW is not there?" but just restated that I don't think it's right that DD's go to a complete strangers house. She then said "but it's dads house" which hurt me but I calmly stated that this was dads house and it's wrong for M men or women to live with OP.

More was said along the same lines but I removed myself before I got angry or upset. I am upset with WH that he couldn't make more of an effort to take DD's out as he knows that I don't have a car so they are missing out on all the trips we used to take as a family during the summer. I guess it's another example of the W's selfishness and I shouldn't really be surprised.

Tarnsy
Posted By: tarnsy Re: My story of how I came to MB - 08/06/07 11:16 AM
Sent this to WH last night:

"I don't want to fight with you.

I'm upset that you didn't make more of an effort to spend time with our daughters today.

I was already a little cross with you that you had let the GP get in the way of the time you have to spend with the girls but I accept that this is important to you and nothing I say will change that. But then you came back and said you'd just a have a few minutes with DD13. This is not fair on them.

I know you see me as "the bad guy" because I won't let them stay at her house but we've been over this several times and I've already said today how I feel about that so I'm not going to repeat myself. I will say though, that I am as stubborn as you are (as you are probably aware!) and I'm not going to change my stance on this.

If you refer back to the schedule I sent you, you will see that you are supposed to have them from 11 - 8 on saturdays and 11-5 on sundays. As it's the school holidays you could have them later but you don't even seem to want to spend this much time with them. Don't you think they've suffered enough already? You know that I have no means of transport to take them to the sort of places they want to go. You do but you don't make the effort.

I was already upset today, as I told you as today was the sort of day that we would have gone out somewhere nice, probably with a picnic, had a nice walk somewhere and then maybe would have come home to one of your delicious barbecues and a glass of Pimms, or gone to the B***** for a meal and a glass or two and watched the girls as they played. These are the times that I miss so much and resent you for leaving because it means I'll never have those times again. You still can take the girls out but you don't, I can't and would do anything to do so again. I miss the "normal" stuff of being a family with you so much. It's not fair.

I'm asking you, please make the time to make plans for the time you have with our daughters. They've missed out on so much not having their dad around all the time, they don't have access to a car to take them to places that they consider fun. I've promised to take them to F***** on the train and to S****** on the bus but as I don't have a car it's hard to find things to amuse them. We've done the museums and mansions to death and DD13's not interested in going to the park or **** madhouse, so although I can take DD8 to these places, DD13 misses out. Please try to arrange something fun they can do with you."

Got this reply:

"We don’t need to fight over anything Tarnsy.

That would solve nothing but we do need to sort this out.

I know you say you will not change your mind and I can say nothing that will change it, but change it must.

I can not keep the girls ‘out’ for all that time without it costing me a mint. As you know I still pay everything for the home for you and the girls to ask me to find £50-100 every other weekend to entertain the girls is just too much. I have not got the money to do that.

If I stop paying out so much money to you and the house I could maybe do it. But it finding things to do and places to go.

I need to have them for the whole weekend so we have a base to work from, they don’t wont to go out each and every time they see me. They want to have dad cook for them for a start and I cant do this if they cant stay.

You know you have no legal right to do what you are doing and any court would tell you that.

We don’t have to go down that road; it is too messy and will cost too much money.

No one is trying to replace their mum that is something no one will ever do. But we all have to move on the next phase Tarnsy; you are not getting any time for your self under these conditions, that’s not fair on you either. You started going out a few months ago, but now your cant as you have to be there for when I drop the girls off. If you have the chance to go out, who is going to sit the girls?

Just give them the chance to decide, they both want to stay with me, they don’t have to like the OW, that’s fine I don’t have a problem with that, but me and the girls need good quality time together and running around in car is not that.

Please, please reconsider Tarnsy".

I'm thinking of telling him to start divorce proceedings if he wants to move on to the "next phase" but don't know if this is just my gut reaction. Help please!
Well, I told WH to start D proceedings, told him it was not what I wanted but if he truly wants me to move to the next phase then he should just get on with it.

Received this in reply:

"No one said anything about divorce! I have never said that. You told me months ago you can divorce me for adultery, which I have to except.

Divorce is too expensive for both of us and is very final.

All we need do is set some rules that both of us are happy with Tarnsy. One being the girls and the other is our monies.

As it stands we’re both unhappy. You because I don’t come back home and me wanting the girls to stay over with me. And me because I cant have the girls stay with me and me not being at home costing me £*** plus a month, plus the extra money I have to find to entertain the girls.

Why don’t we just give it a bash, the girls staying I mean, if they hate it then I will have to deal with it. But we have to give them the chance to make their own minds up.

Once we know how much money you will be receiving we can work out how much I will pay to you. This with a bit of part time work once the girls are back to school and you are 100% healed from your opp with working tax credits will be a nice sum of money.

I know you still love me Tarnsy, I can see it every time you look at me. I think the world of you and I do enjoy what little time we have together, albeit a cup of tea in the kitchen. You are easier to talk to now then I can ever remember. I have never hated you and never will, I do understand your motives and I know you mean well by standing by your convictions, but I don’t have to agree with them.

Please can I just have the girls for the whole weekend next time its my turn and lets see how it goes."

There is more, will post later, am now waiting for my intermediaries to come back from their holiday so that I can go to plan B.
why are you not in plan B Tarnsy?
H&P,

Had to have surgery so decided to wait til I was recovered enough to be able to keep myself busy during the 1st days of what will likely be an emotional time and my intermediaries are on holiday. So until they are back I am stuck.
Okay...You just seem like a prime candidate for plan B and it sounds as if you already have it planned. I hope you are doing well physically!
More email interaction! My reply to WH:

"For one thing, DD8 does not want to go to her house whether she is there or not. You have to accept that.

You do not have to spend huge amounts of money at the weekend. We managed to entertain them over the years on little money so I know it can be done. I still have to find cheap or free things for us to do.

I am sorting out the benefit issue. If you can get the mortgage docs faxed to you this would help me greatly.

I will be working once my leg is better and the girls are in school. You don't have to tell me.

I have several nights planned to go out and a few people who have offered to babysit so you don't have to worry about me not having time for me.

I can't take the pain anymore. Knowing that you love someone else tears me apart and every time I see you it just gets worse. You say a divorce is very final but if you don't see yourself ever loving me again, wouldn't it be for the best? I've already said that it's not what I want, you know that I would love for us to be a family again but none of this has been about what I want. You've had everything your own way so far and you've been allowed to get away with it with no thought for the consequences of your actions on those who you supposedly loved.

I can't take it anymore, I need for this to end and if that means never seeing you again then that it was I will have to do."

I know I was probably a bit emotional in the last couple of paragraphs but I figured it was about time he heard about my feelings.

Here's his reply:

"You will have to see me Tarnsy, we have two children together.

You seem to have forgotten how we got into this in the first place. I know its both our faults, no one person is to blame.

The law says you cant do what you want with regards to the girls and where they go and who they see. I don’t want to have to involve the law Tarnsy. It seems that our little DD8 is some what confused! She is telling you one thing and me another, we cant expect anymore form her she is only 8.

She tells you what you want to hear and the same for me.

I don’t want to fall out with you Tarnsy, so please lets get it sorted and me not having the girls stay over needs to change."

There's yet more to come but as I've had no response here I've just replied to the best of my limited knowledge.
Don't debate him or try to educate him at this point it is impossible to do.

Let your attorney tell him what is legal, expected, etc and don't debate that with him either. Did he suddenly go to law school overnight and determine that he knows what he can and can't do with regards to your DD? I don't think so.

Do you have an attorney or any sore of LSA, emergency order regarding custody, child support, alimony, et al? If not why not?
I did see a solicitor back in Feb but at the end of May WH ended A and was going to come home. This lasted all of 10 days!

We are not legally seperated. WH has not fought over custody, in fact it has not been mentioned. Our only bone of contention is our DD's staying at OW house which is where WH lives. As for money, he has paid all bills for the home which is considerably more than my solicitor said I would be entitled to. In the next few weeks he will reduce the amount he pays as I will be getting money from social security until I am able to go back to work. It would still be an amount more than I would get through the court system.

I don't think that WH will be one of those W's that cause financial problems for his family but if he does then I will have no hesitation in going back to my solicitor.
DD8 told me yesterday that WH had asked both DD's again if they wanted to meet OW to which they both replied no! Bless them! WH emailed to tell me this and to say that we are at an "impass". Replied back "what did you expect?".

Here is his reply:

"I expected to get on with it like the 100’s of thousands of people all over the world do.

From what I can see our situation seems to be different to all I have seen and know about.

The girls have changed their minds because back in Jan/feb they where of a different opinion, that being if mum said yes they would, now they are saying no!

I can only guess that you and maybe a few other ppl have changed their minds for them. Saying what, I can only guess.

If this is a strategy of yours to win me over then I am afraid it may well back fire. I feel like I am being cornered.

You did not ask me to go Tarnsy I know that (apart from the times when you did not mean it!), but in the same breath you didn’t do a lot to make me want to stay either.

You have admitted as much your self. I know and understand that you want me to suffer for my actions by preventing the girls from staying with me.

But what are we going to do if and when you meet some one else?

Am I going to have the same rights as you and dictate to you who and what and how you can behave with our children? Who they can meet and who can stay at the house I pay for?

You need to think long and hard Tarnsy, because I can tell you now I will react the same as you if things stay as they are. He will not be allowed in the house at all, ever! or meet the girls, over my dead body to coin your phrase.

So we can go forward feeling like we do or change. You know only to well, better then anyone else alive that I can be a stubborn bast*rd.

To say I have deserted is bit over the top too. Moved out yes but desert no. If I had done that I would have completely turned my back on you and the girls but I have not done that.

Apart from me not being in the house, not a lot has changed. I continue to pay for the house and all its bills, plus all the loans and cards which is our debt not just mine, including the overdraft.

I am not a bast*rd and never will be, you know that much.

And now you are telling to finish my relationship if I want things to change. Your ok for me to do that and go and meet some one else for you to do the same?"

To me, the tone of his email was aggressive and trying to get me to argue with him so I did my best not to fall into this trap:

"Our sitch is different. Everyones is in it's own way.

From my POV, the girls have not changed their minds. They always said to me that they did not want to meet the person who had taken their daddy away. No one has tried to convince them otherwise.

This is not a strategy to win you over. As I've stated before, it is to protect our daughters from any more trauma. I am not trying to corner you. "It may well backfire" - can you clarify this please, it sounds like a threat.

No, I didn't do a lot to make you want to stay but as you have said yourself, I am different now and I believe I have shown you just how much I love you. If I was still the same person I was then, we would be divorced by now and the last few months would have been filled with fights not the friendly chats that we have had.

I am not trying to make you suffer. This is not about you. It's about our daughters and what they want. You ignored their feelings when you left and now you seem to continue to do the same by continuously asking them to meet OW when they have already said they don't want to..

I have no intentions of meeting someone else. I am married to you. I take my vows seriously. If and when we divorce then I shall be free to find another man if I so desire, but until then I see myself as a married woman.

Yes, I know how stubborn you are. I think that is part of the reason that you won't come home. You've made a decision and you're going to stick with it. Well, you know how stubborn I can be too. I made a decision the day I married you, to forsake all others, for better for worse, til death us do part, I'm sticking to that.

You have deserted us ******. Not financially, but emotionally and physically. You are not here to keep us safe, to protect us, to love us. There is always a WH shaped space in everything we do. You're not at the dinner table, you're not here to wind us up, to tickle us or make us laugh. You don't walk through the door at 6 o'clock, you don't eat with us, you don't sit at the computer, you're not here to play with the girls before bed, you're not here at 9 o'clock for a cup of tea, you're not here to lock the doors and you're not here to go to sleep with. You're just not here.

I have not said you are a bast*rd. I don't like what you've done and I don't have to agree with it and I certainly don't have to help legitimize it. I am not telling you to end your "relationship" but if you want your daughters to spend time in a "home" environment then you need to rethink your living arrangements. No one is forcing you to do anything, you've already proved that you only do what you want to do, but if you're not going to do that then you have to accept that you will never cook for them, watch a dvd or any of the other "normal" stuff that dads who live with their children get to do. You knew this when you chose to move in with her so you can't complain about it now.

And I don't want you to find someone else either. Why would I want that? All I want is for you to know how much I love you and that marriages can and do recover from these tragedies.

I believe I have covered all the points in your email. I am not fighting you, I am just standing up for our children and our marriage, after all, if I don't who will?"

Feel free to tell me where I may have gone wrong with my reply so that I can avoid those pitfalls in any other contact we may have before I enter plan B.

Many thanks
Your email is fine.

Slays me how a WS can have an A, leave their family, not be there for them because the OP needs them for something, and insist that they haven't "abandoned" their family.

Suggested insert for an email to your H:

"If, 15 years or so from now, our D's have a lover move in with them without first being married, will you be disappointed?

What if their lover is a married man?

What if he has children he left behind?

Would you welcome that man into your life?

We are modeling behavior for our children. Do you want to model cheating and infidelity as an ideal?

Think 15 years or more into the future. Imagine our daughters married, with children. You are their role model for the man in their lives. Will they gravitate toward a man who can commit and stick through rough times? Or will they chose a guy who will leave them and their children.

Imagine that they chose the guy who leaves. Imagine that he moves in with a new woman. Do you want to encourage your grandchildren to spend time with their Daddy's live in honey? Or would you stand behind our girls, and protect them from that kind of immoral behavior."

On the off chance that is too short, how about adding:

"Let's consider that there is nothing wrong with the behavior you are modeling. Let's consider that I agree not to insist that our girls see you away from your ladyfriend. What will they learn?

Suppose in 15 or more years, they learn that it is fine to leave their husbands and children because their men were less than ideal. They move out and into the apartment of a perfect other guy. Your grandbabies are now spending the night in the place of the man who is not their Daddy. That becomes normal for them.

WH, it is easier to be a good influence for our girls if we are doing the right thing. I want them to be good, moral and ethical. I want them to fight for their marriages, for their families. I want them to be faithful. I want them to learn from me that you don't just give in because it is easier than doing the right thing. Don't you want them to be good, moral and strong?

Don't you want them to keep their own families together? Don't you want them to resist being a live-in bedwarmer for some guy who is married to another woman?

Anyway, think about it."

Feel free to reject my suggestion or to plagiarize or cannibalize anything I posted. Good luck.
Thx for replying Bellevue, was beginning to feel a little alone here!

I agree with what you have said but wonder that WH is still too far in the fog to be able to hear and comprehend this without getting angry. I have asked him before what lessons he thinks DD's will learn from him but he ignored the question.

Would this not be trying to educate him as I've been told that that is something I shouldn't do?
Tarnsy,

I haven't chimed in on your thread, yet, but have been following it. I think one, very important question for your WH next time he says "Who's talking about divorce?", is why in the world would he thinks you shouldn't be talking divorce. He is living with another woman to whom he wants to introduce your DD's - does he think he can just continue forever living with someone else while still having a wife?

Regards,

BB
Tarnsy,

Let's make it simple for the stupid WS.

1. $$ - if $$ is a problem, go get it from the OW. I don't want to hear about your lack of $$. Get a 2nd job, borrow from the OW..... you already lost your pants to her....what's a few bucks.... I mean didn't you step up in life and get someone who will cover you financially? Why is this a problem for which our family must suffer?

2. Children not wanting to see or be near the OW or her home. - Can't make it more clear than that. Do you want a neutral 3rd party to tell you the same thing? You can't believe your children or your W, that can be arranged.

3. Divorce is final - This is a result of you living with an OW and having an affair.

4. Financial obligations - The law stipulates the minimum. If you are only going to meet the minimum, then do so before the law forces you to. If you choose to do more than the minimum, our family would be grateful but not indebited because you owe that to us.

5. Father - you will always be the children's father. How good or bad of a father you choose to be is up to you. These children are already forming their own opinions of you based on action and words YOU are showing them. Stop trying to play mind games with our children. They are smarter than you realize.


6. Friends - Well when someone betrays a family, it is hard to remain friends with that person. You have betrayed our family and currently not interested in correcting your error. As a result, being friends with you is not possible. As long as you remain as a WS (wayward spouse) you are not a friend of this family. You are a relative and have financial obligations but you are not a friend. Neither is the OW. So keep your affair related friends away from my family.

7. I realize this is hard to read and digest. When you find my real husband, let him know his family would like him back but the WS can stay out there and rot.

Ok, that's my straight shootin' version. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> This is also pre-plan B. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Btw, I did similar to what I listed above. I put the babble back in perspective and shot it back to the WS. It threw him for a loop. Hope it does yours also.... he got angry a bit but I stood my ground. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />


L.
tarnsy, your thoughts are exactly what I came up with when I re-read my post just now, I often shoot from the hip & think afterward.

He isn't thinking with his big head at the moment. The fog has all the blood rushing to another organ ....

I guess my post was an exercise in writing. The focus now should be on how to follow Plan A, and not get drawn into arguments with a man with so little blood in his brain.

Yes, the kind of thoughts I put in the post ARE trying to educate. He really isn't able to take that stuff in.
He is rationalizing, manipulating, distracting, threatening, and normalizing...don't get caught in the battle over the details. He is playing every game in the book...don't get caught in an email battle of words. Don't acknowledge HALF or more of what he says...it's just words...

What I would answer?

"I love you, I hate that we working out when to split up the girls, this is hard on me, hard on the girls, and I'll bet hard on you.

Lets make plans for this weekend...if you want...all of us together? If not, how about just the two of us?"

Keep your interaction off the written page unless it's going to be about how googly eye you are over him...this haggling going on is just putting coffin nails in the R...he knows it, is looking for an excuse to get you mad so he can say..."See, I was right!..."

Plan A or Plan B...which is it going to be?

This middle ground is where I've seen many a soul fall into, and it's not a good place to be, and if it continues for very long, does not have a good outcome...

Show him how an R will be like if he returns...negotiating and arguing over everything? Or will you be able to get off a hot topic and have some fun sometimes?
Quote
Tarnsy,

I haven't chimed in on your thread, yet, but have been following it. I think one, very important question for your WH next time he says "Who's talking about divorce?", is why in the world would he thinks you shouldn't be talking divorce. He is living with another woman to whom he wants to introduce your DD's - does he think he can just continue forever living with someone else while still having a wife?

Regards,

BB

'course he can. If he joins the polygymous faiths. Those women are used to being part of a harem.
Orchid is right on!
Thanx to everyone for taking the time to reply.

Have successfully managed to avoid email contact with WH today as I took DD's out for the day.

Did TM him to let him know that a neighbour had been wheel clamped in our road as I knew he would find it amusing as she was always parking on the double yellows.

BB, thanxs for chiming in, I could use all the help I can get! Have asked WH previously if he thinks it's right to stay married to me whilst he lives with OW. It was another of those questions that he chose to ignore!

Orchid, completely agree with everything you said but worry that if I say these things to WH just before plan B it will override the memories of my plan A. Should I resend my reply to his last email with these points added?

Bellevue, please continue to give me your thoughts, perhaps one day WH will be sufficiently out of the fog to be able to take on board all this wonderful advice and common sense and not see it as an attack!

Still, I am in the final days of plan A, plan B will happen when my intermediaries return from their holiday otherwise I would probably be in it by now! So I can see that the lines may be blurred somewhat.

I have deliberately avoided getting into arguements with WH as this was a problem in our M. We are both stubborn and do not like to backdown from a fight (never physical) so I have tried to show this change in me to WH through my actions. Perhaps I need some more help with this.

I like the idea of asking for us all to go out but fear that it would be painful for me to do the sort of family things that we always used to do. And I really don't think he'd go for just the 2 of us going out, I think he'd see that as giving me false hope.

Thanx H&P for keeping up with my sitch!
>I have deliberately avoided getting into arguements with WH as this was a problem in our M. We are both stubborn and do not like to backdown from a fight (never physical) so I have tried to show this change in me to WH through my actions. Perhaps I need some more help with this.

____________________________________

It's funny you should mention this, because this is something I have been working on very recently...
I will argue a point until my H gives in...he has since learned to not argue at all, which makes for some very lopsided decsion making in the household.

OK, so big change has occured lately (not without help) it has been recommended I basically DON'T argue about most things...(how to know what to argue about, and what not to? Most things don't matter) And to CONSTANTLY look at the other side of things, to argue against myself ALWAYS...at least at first, now I let most things go, it's not an argument...

I wish I had a good example of what I'm talking about, but every one of them I find I still get my way. I guess the examples I couldn't really talk about are the ones that go on in my head, where I just let so much go...and my H seems to be very OK with this and participating more...
Quote
Orchid, completely agree with everything you said but worry that if I say these things to WH just before plan B it will override the memories of my plan A. Should I resend my reply to his last email with these points added?

Tarnsy,

Plan A is for you and about you. So how he acts or reacts is NOT the decision making factor here.

The purpose of the points in my last post was so he is aware you are NOT playing his games. WS' love to lure the BS into more pain and hurt. It is a sick game. The more you feed it the more it will grow.

This way when you enter plan B (for your sanity), you won't have to reiterate your stance. It will make entering plan B easier. IMHO. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

The one thing you do NOT want is for him to think your plan B is weak and meant t/b broken. It isn't and he needs to know that you are above his A antics. You want your H back NOT the WS.

I remember that I got to the point where I told my then WS that he needed to check WS at the CURB....yep, not the front door but out on the street! Why? Because I refused to have a WS in my home. It took a while to figure out I could do that but once I did, I felt empowered and was able to have the control I needed. Oh yea..... a BS having control is NOT a bad thing so the WS can kiss that excuse good bye. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

L.
Here is my email to WH. Haven't sent it yet so feel free to suggest any changes.

Do I take it from this that you want me to start divorce proceedings?

"No one said anything about divorce! I have never said that. You told me months ago you can divorce me for adultery, which I have to except
Divorce is too expensive for both of us and is very final"

Your finances are not my problem (thought OW would be only too glad to help you in this department!) and yes it would be final. This is the result of you having an affair and living with OW.

I believe that your original question re the girls staying at OW's house was on the understanding that she would not be there. Having read through the emails over the last few days it seems that this was not true. You said:

"I asked the girls last night what they wanted and it appears they are of the same opinion, that being the same as yours.
Well, they are happy to come to the house but not if she is there.
So we seem to be at an impasse."

This implies that you only wanted the girls to stay if OW was there. How many times do you need to hear that they don't want to meet her? I've told you many times, so have they; do you need to hear it from somebody else if you can't believe your wife and children? I suggest you ask yourself who it is you are trying to keep happy. Certainly not your children.
You will always be the girls’ father but how good or bad a father you choose to be is up to you. They are already forming their own opinions of you based on your actions. They may be young but they know the difference between right and wrong.

You said:

"I think the world of you and I do enjoy what little time we have together, albeit a cup of tea in the kitchen. You are easier to talk to now then I can ever remember."

As I have said to you before, I cannot just be your friend. When someone betrays you it's hard to be their friend. You have betrayed our family and as you are not currently interested in correcting that, being friends with you is not possible. You are not a friend of this family; you are just a relative with financial obligations but not a friend. Nor is the OW. So keep your affair related friends away from my family.

I realize that this is hard to hear and to digest but when you find my real husband let him know that his family loves him and want him to come home. In the meantime, this other ****** can stay away.
Do not send this email.

First, never try to educate a WS.
Quote
I suggest you ask yourself who it is you are trying to keep happy. Certainly not your children.
You will always be the girls’ father but how good or bad a father you choose to be is up to you. They are already forming their own opinions of you based on your actions. They may be young but they know the difference between right and wrong.

We all know that he is not trying to keep the girls happy, and you are right that they are forming their own opinions of him right now. But you do not need to throw that up at him. He is making a LOT of mistakes right now. But Tarnsy, you are not his mother, and you do not need to teach him this. Let him make his own mistakes. I promise you, there are other forces telling him that he is wrong. Friends, family, his own guilt. You don't see all of these other workings, but they are happening anyway. He clearly is afraid of D. He said himself that it is expensive and very final. Most WS's are anxious for a D - to "start over again". yours is not. Ask yourself why.


Quote
Your finances are not my problem (thought OW would be only too glad to help you in this department!) and yes it would be final. This is the result of you having an affair and living with OW.


When you read this statement again, do you really think this is something to say to your H, who you want to build a happy M with? his finances are not your problem, true. But you don't need to throw it back in his face! and that line about how OW would be too glad to help - you do not know that for a fact! And furthermore- that is a total disrespectful judgment of him - and her. You assume that OW is nagging him for a D, and offering to pay. But that is only an assumption on your part.

Ask yourself this question: What good could come from this email? What would his response likely be? No matter what your goal is - this is a negative email and none of it should be sent. If you want to build a new, happy M, this email will push him away.

You are angry, that is understandable!! So put your thoughts in a journal - not an email to him. If he read this email - would he think you have made any changes in your attitude, or your life?

I would suggest not sending anything at all. Let him wonder what you are up to. Let him worry, and fret. He expects you to send a nasty email - don't give him the satisfaction.

I am not suggesting that you just roll over and let him walk all over you. Next time he complains about finances give a simpl reply like "I am sorry that things have been so ahrd on you lately." If he says D is so final - reply with "you are right, it is. I do not want a D for myself, or my DD's, but I simply can not remain married to a man who lives with his GF. it is not my vision of M, and not the lesson I wnat to teach my DD's. As much as it breaks my heart - if you will not commit to me, and our M, then YOU need to proceed with the D."

Finally, be very careful when you talk about the girls going to his place - he is going to start nagging them. Telling them that he wants to see them more "but Mum won't let them" and if they really love him, then they should tell Mum that they want to go to Dads place.
These girls should enver be caught in the middle, and I fear that is going to happen soon. I can see it all ready with his statement "it appears that they tell you one thing, and me another" those girls want you both to be happy.
Thankyou WOF, I seem to be getting very confused. I feel that I no longer know my H and don't know which path I should be taking.

I'm feeling a bit emotional at the moment and it's getting late here so will try to get back here tomoro.

Thx

Tarnsy
Tarnsy,

Like WOF said, it's not to teach the Ws. The purpose of your response is to give him factual info. Take out some of the conversational aspects and let him hear 'just the facts'. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Try it again. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

L.
After thinking about it I have decided not to send WH an email at the moment. As WOF pointed out, I believe it would push him further away and I want his memories of his last conversations with me before plan B to be pleasant ones.

Thanx for the advice Orchid and please don't think that I'm ignoring it. I have taken it all in and will use it but I don't think the time is right at the moment. Also I think that some of it would be better said face to face such as the stuff about how can he reconcile staying married when he lives with OW. Plus if it's on paper he could use it against me in any future court case!

Got to go now, will check in later.
Tarnsy,

Just checking on you. How are you doing?

Who
Who,

Doing fine thx.

Had a good night out with friends on saturday and DD's stayed at my mums house overnight but really don't enjoy coming home to an empty house. WH always used to wait up for me on the rare occasions that I stayed out late and I missed him. Have a few more nights out planned over the next few weeks so I guess I will have the chance to get used to it.

Had no contact with WH over the weekend and was worried that I may bump into him and OW as one of the places I was going is a place that they frequent, so asked neighbour to call WH to find out if they were out. Turned out WH was in another county so that was OK. But then I realised that where he was we have two couples who are friends of both of us so then worried that he was introducing OW to them. Realised there was nothing I could do about if he was and that it may not even be the case so put it out of my mind and enjoyed myself.

WH has just been to pick up DD's, he asked if my leg was ok, I told him that it had been aching as I'd been out dancing saturday night. WH then asked where I had been, who with and what time did I get home. Should probably have told him it was none of his business but let him know anyway apart from the time I got home, just said it was sometime sunday!

WH then said it was time to go as he was getting ..... he didn't finish the sentence and left. Perhaps I've given him something to think about!
Tarnsy,

Well, he better start thinking about how he will feel if things don't work out and you do begin a relationship with someone else at some point in the future.

I'm not saying that your marriage isn't going to recover, but if it doesn't, he certainly has no right to any expectation that you will spend the rest of your life alone.

Right now, he still gets to have you in his life and he doesn't really need to wonder what things will be like without you. It will be really enlightning to see how he handles your Plan B.

How long is it until your friends return from holiday so you can go dark on him?

As a bit of encouragement, someone here once said that often, those marriages where the wayward actually gets a glimpse of life without their BS ofter recover better.

In my sitch, FWH had already ended the A before d-day and had never intended to leave, but as soon as things weren't going well down the road, he returned to the old familiar wayward mindset.

I think he never really had to grasp what his life would be like without me in it so he continued to take me for granted. That attitude really delayed our recovery and ultimately almost led him to A #2 which would have finished us off.

You hang in there and try to enjoy some solitude when your kids are at your mums. Solitude, like good wine, is an acquired taste, but it can be very soothing as well.

Who
Who,

Thx for the words of encouragement.

Friends will be back at the weekend so I had better get my PBL posted so that the experts can give their opinions.

WH has already had a taste of what life would be like without me altho it was only for 2mths and before I knew of the MB principles. I had no contact with him as I knew that every time I saw him it just made me more upset so took myself out of the situation and altho I was still very depressed at the time, it definitely helped in my personal recovery. I'm hoping it will have the same effect again altho I'm in a much better place now than I was then, there is still room for improvement.

Wh has just dropped off DD's and came in for a cup of tea and a chat. DD13 came into the kitchen and said "Dad was thinking of you today". This made WH blush! Turned out a song came on the radio that reminded him of me. I told him it was nice that he thought of me.

WH weighed himself and has put on 28lbs since january! It's all gone to his stomach so told him it was middle age spread to go with his midlife crisis! He said "you've never called it that before". Told him he is nearly 40 so it seems to me that it is but it just made him more cuddly.

Maybe that thinking all this has happened because of a midlife crisis may give him another perspective on why we are where we are. You never know.
I have spent the last few days reading mimi's plan B thread and think it has given me the final push I needed to see that this is the only way to go. I know it's not going to be easy, I will miss the small amount of contact we have but it is more important to think of any possible long term benefits rather than the short term pleasures. Besides, the pleasure is being overtaken by the sadness I feel when I do see him so the time is right.

Here's my plan B letter, so please advise on any changes I may need to make.

Dear WH,

This is the hardest letter I have ever had to write but I feel that this is the only way that I can express myself and tell you how I have come to the decision that I have.

I never thought that we would be in this situation; I honestly thought that we would be married till the day I died. I know that we didn’t always have the best of marriages but as you used to say, there must have been something connecting us as we always managed to find our way back to each other.

The last nine months have made me realise how much I truly love you and how my actions helped lead us to this place. I know that I wasn’t as good a wife to you as you deserved and that I continually pushed you away verbally and physically, I wasn’t as supportive of you as I could have been and now I know how important these things were to you.

Over the last few months I have recognised the errors I made and have learnt from them. It has taken hard work on my part to change these things about myself but because I wanted to become a better person, wife and mother it was worth it. I now know that I can be a good wife, a wife who creates a warm, loving home for her husband to return to everyday, a wife who admires her husband for all the good things he brings to the home, a wife who is there to listen and support her husband when he has things on his mind and a wife who shows her love to her husband in every way. I believe that I have shown during the past few months that I can be a friend, confidante and lover to you.

I am truly sorry for helping to create an environment where it was easy for you to be vulnerable to an affair. I took your love for granted and realise that I did little to enable our love to grow. I lost sight of the importance of meeting your needs but now I am more than willing to do so and will do so enthusiastically.

The last nine months have been the most difficult of my life. The pain and emptiness sometimes seems never-ending and almost too much to bear. I console myself with the memories of the love we once shared, the good times we had, the qualities of the wonderful man I fell in love with and promised to spend my life with, and the thought that one day, we could be happy together again.

As you are aware, I am still committed to making our marriage a happy and safe place to be and to correcting the mistakes we made so that we can be stronger and happier than ever before. There is nothing I want more than for us to build a new marriage where we both feel loved, cherished and safe. Where our children can grow in a secure environment into happy, well balanced adults.

The decision I mentioned is that I cannot see or communicate with you in anyway while you are involved with another person. It has become too painful for me and does not help in my learning to be the best possible wife I can be.

I have not made this decision lightly and it is not meant to hurt you in anyway. It is simply to protect the love I still have for you should you decide that you want to rebuild our marriage and return to the family.

As soon as you end your relationship with the other woman and agree to no contact with her and are willing to commit to our marriage then I will be willing to do whatever it takes to restore our relationship. Until that point I must break off all contact with you including e-mail, phone, text and face to face contact so that my love for you does not die.

You can contact me through **** and **** (I have put their contact numbers and email address at the bottom of this letter) if there is an emergency, and I would appreciate it if from now on that you stay in the car when picking up or dropping off the girls.

Please respect my decision to end all contact but it is the only way for me to get over the pain that your extra marital relationship has caused me. I simply cannot put myself through anymore without risking the love I have for you eroding away. So to avoid poisoning my memories and everything we shared and to give our marriage a chance of recovery in the future, I must separate from you in this way.

It makes me sad to think that the memories I thought we’d make together in the future may not happen. That it may not be you standing beside me, holding my hand as our daughters get married. It may not be you standing impatiently next to me as our grandchildren are born and it may not be you sitting with me as we get old and reflect on our lives.

I love you more today than I did when we got married but I can not be just a friend to you. As soon as you end your relationship with the other woman and promise to commit to our marriage and to counselling then feel free to contact me but until then, goodbye,

All my love
tarnsy,

I'm not really qualified to advise you on any changes but wanted to let you know that I was very moved by your letter. Tears came to my eyes. You came across to me as a very reasonable and loving woman.

I truly hope you have the strength to remain as dark as you need to be from now on. Good luck!

MW
Thankyou for your kind words MW, I hope it has a similar effect on WH!
Ternsy,

I haven't any experience with Plan B personally, but your letter is moving and makes the point clearly. Best of luck to you. I hope that you have complete success in this.

(((((Tarnsy)))))))

Who
Thx Who,

Please continue to drop in as I'm sure I'll need lots of moral support once I give the letter to WH.

I'm currently wondering how much longer to wait. Intermediaries are back at the weekend and in just over 2 weeks is what would be our 17th wedding anniversary. Should I wait till after that so that I can send WH a heartfelt card as I wouldn't be able to do this if I follow plan B to the letter or just do it asap. On the one hand I would really like to give WH a loving card to remind him of the promises we made to each other but OTOH I don't want to risk losing my love for him. My love bank is not near the empty mark yet but I am finding each encounter harder to deal with.
My take, for what it's worth. I would give him a last blast of REALLY showing him those things about yourself you have pointed out in the letter you have changed. Try to find some opportunities int eh next week to REALLY show him. Then move to Plan B. But you have a better idea about this...

Ask yourself this...if your anniversary comes and he ignores it, how much will your love bank deplete, and can you take it?

Great Plan B letter BTW, and I rarely say that...
forget about the heart felt anniversary card. you would spend the next two weeks carefully choosing the right card, planning what to write in it, searching for just the right words to say that would remind him of your lovely wedding, and the love you shared.
but he would look at the card, read it, and say to himself "yeah, we did love each other once. But I don't feel the same way right now. And I am not sure if I ever will love her that way again. it may be best to file for the D, so she will quit sending me cards"

You have done a great plan A. He has a great picture in his mind of how his life could be with you. Now is the time to show him what his life will be like if he continues with OW. He needs to see that he would not be able to just stop by for a cup of tea and a chat when he feels like it. He needs to realize that you would not be sitting with him at DD's weddings. He needs to fully understand that if he does not get rid of OW for good, and quit showing a complete lack of respect for you and your marraige, then he is going to end up stuck with OW full time, with no one else to chat with.

Tarnsy - the man is stomping all over your marriage, and your wedding anniversary. Do not reward his bad behavior with a card.

Your plan B will scare him into understanding that even if he does not love you "that way" anymore, he had better figure out how to bring that love back! and fast!
Still,

I will have a few chances to plan A over the weekend when WH picks up DD's so will treat him like royalty as previously suggested and give him plenty of admiration. I will also tell him about my plans to become a dancing instructor as I know that one of his EN's is financial support.

You are right that not receiving a card from WH would deplete my love bank further but I know not to expect anything from him. I will not give in to the desire to send one.

Thanx for your kind words on my PBL.

WOF,

Everything you said is true. I am so grateful that you take the time to give me another perspective on things. You are right, he does not deserve a card from me.
Treat the WS like royalty? Why? Why add to the Ws' fantasy? They already think they are king.

Treat your H like royalty? No.... he is your partner, not your king.

IMHO, your plan A is to show you personal improvements. You should make him drool over you not you serve him. As for your work, let him know. He may scoff. Don't get disappointed. Instead expect the WS to fuss about anything good you do. That's when you know the WS is present and you need to alter your tactic accordingly. If he seems supportive on your career choice or at least tries to give you valuable feedback, then that's your H talking.

Prepare for the worst.

JMHO,
L.

L.
Orchid,

So much advice, so many opinions, it's hard to know what to do for the best.

As for treating WH as royalty (maybe this is the wrong word) then I agree with you but I feel that H is around more these days and it is him I will treat accordingly. He has seen my personal improvements and acknowledged them.

I do not "serve" him, but one of WH's EN's (maybe the top 1) is admiration and to me this includes respect and is probably something I haven't shown him for some time. I believe for my plan A to be effective I need to show him that I respect the man he USED TO BE, the father he WAS and the businessman he continues to be.

If WH turns up at the door rather than H then obviously I won't show respect for the person he is now but if it is H then I will take the opportunity to fulfill this EN of his before plan B.

Tarnsy
Admiration is often a HUGE need for men, and often overlooked by wives -- simply because we never seem to get it in return, and often don't need it as much as they do.

However, OW is cooing and awwing over every thing he does.

So -- be sure to meet this need!

An easy way to do it is to ask him for help with some chore around the house. Then show sincere appreciation and admiration for the job he does.
Maybe something as simple as lifting or moving something heavy for you. Then say "thank you, it would have taken me 4x's as long to get that done!" or "oh Thank You, that space looks so much better now!"

As far as your plans for work...likely he will think "oh sure NOW she does it, when its too late!" or "yeah sure she will..." He is highly suspicious of you -- he may not believe you will really follow through, or he will think its too late.
I'm not telling you not to tell him -- just preparing you that you won't get any appreciation for your statement.
You will get more respect for DOING IT, rather than SAYING you wil do it. Get the difference?

If he's coming by -- make sure the house looks good, you look good. Maybe have a favorite treat prepared (cookies?)
Be in a great mood -- happy, make him laugh, flirt.

The idea is to be someone he wants to spend time with. To make those times he's there -- happy! So that he has more fun being with you than anyone else. Attract him the same way you did so many years ago.
Lexxxy,

Thankyou for your comments.

Admiration definitely got overlooked in our marriage, that's why I always try to say at least 1 one thing whenever I speak to WH to show him that I admire something, whether it be his success in his job or fixing the bin! (which he did the other day!)

As for my plans for a new job, WH is picking me and DD8 up from the dancing school on sat so will make sure that I get lots of info and hopefully a start date for when I begin training. I can't wait to start!

I always try to make sure that the house and I look good when WH is due and do my best to show him that I am in a good place.

Have had 8 emails from WH today, mostly about a favourite musician of ours and reminiscing about the concerts we went to together. It was good to talk about stuff from the past and only relive good memories!

The last line of the final email said "I am off to ******* for the morning, I’ll drop you a line once I am back if you like". The "if you like" bit resonated something to me but I don't know what. Replied that I'd like that as I enjoy hearing from him.
Make up for some of the past, you can even include a few..."I never told you, you look great in jeans..." or "I never told you enough how much I appreciated..." It helps cut through that revisionist history he lays on in his mind...
Thx Still,

took your advice and paid WH a compliment about the colour of his shirt and how good he looks in blue! This made WH laugh!

After chatting with H (not WH) I asked him if he was happy. He said that he can't answer that as he doesn't want to incriminate himself! Then he said he was joking, I think because this is what he used to say before our false recovery whenever I asked him a question. Then he said that to be honest, he doesn't have the time to think about whether he is happy or nor as he is busy at work and running around trying to keep everyone else happy.

I told him that this is what he has always done and that his happiness gets overlooked and he agreed! I then told him I want to make him happy and he said "I know".

To me, it doesn't sound as if everything is as rosy in A land as us BS's are inclined to believe. I just wish I knew what was going on in his fogged out brain. I mean, how can anyone leave their children and their spouse to shack up with someone of no morals and even when they can see that the BS has done their best to become the person that the WS said that they wanted them to be they still hold on to the OP?

Sorry for venting but I'm just so mad at the moment. I think I'm on a slippery slope as it's what would have been our anniversary in 13 days and it scares the h3ll out of me. Plus I just spoke to WH on the phone and could hear OW in the background. AAARRRGGGGHHHH!!!!!
U R right about A land NOT being all fun and games.

As for hearing the OW in the background, OW in our case made sure I heard her 'moaning'. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> My reaction? I asked him if she was hard of hearing!!! That's what the WS had told me, so I spoke even louder. LOL!!! Boy....what shock does to a person. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

In regards the slippery slope, u r right. Now get firmly planted because the OW wants to rock your world and it isn't in a nice way. Be prepared for boulders t/b cast your way.

Is there a way off that slippery slope? You bet!!

L.

L.
Hi Orchid,

thx for the words of encouragement.

I'm assuming that the way off the slippery slope is plan B. I was supposed to be seeing one half of my intermediary couple at the weekend but she had to cancel and we are now trying to juggle our schedules to arrange a time to meet this week. Hopefully then we can get plan B underway and I might achieve some relative peace altho the thought of not seeing H tears me apart.

TBH, I don't think WH is very happy. To me if you're happy then you shouldn't need to think about it, you just are.

What sort of things do you think OW is going to do to rock my world, like she hasn't done enough already! What should I prepare for? Forewarned is forearmed!
Hi Tarnsy,

Just checking in with you to let you know, I'm still here pulling and praying for you.

Who
Thx Who,

I can't tell you how much it means to know that there are people like you, WOF, Still, Orchid and many others, out there reaching out to complete strangers and giving their support and guidance when we need it most.

thx again.
Wh has just left.

He arrived here late because of meetings he had to attend so didn't take DD's out and stayed here with them.

I find that difficult. Having him in the family home as if we are one big happy family and knowing that he'll be leaving to go be with the ho is too much to bear.

Knowing that plan B is around corner helps but I'm afraid that didn't stop me from telling WH that I'm finding it hard to deal with seeing him and that I think it would be best for me if we had no contact.

He wanted to know how we would deal with arrangements for DD's so I said we just have to stick to the schedule I already gave him.

I also told him that it's only to help me stop feeling the pain I feel whenever he leaves and that I was only telling him because one of the things I have been working for my self improvement was to only say the things I mean and to mean what I say.

I referred back to yesterdays convo when I asked him if he was happy and he said that he had to think about it. I said that to me you shouldn't need to think about whether you are or not and that he didn't seem happy to me. He replied "would you rather I came round here ecstatically happy then?"

I didn't know what to say to that! I asked him again if he is happy but he wouldn't answer, just said see you tomoro.

How do I come back from this? I'm having horrible thoughts that I've ruined any chance I had of recovering our M and wondering if it's worth all the pain.

Tarnsey
Quote
How do I come back from this? I'm having horrible thoughts that I've ruined any chance I had of recovering our M and wondering if it's worth all the pain.


Come back from what?
I don't understand what you did that ruined your chance at recovery. If you are referring to your question about whether or not he is happy - that was no big deal.
If you are going to have a M in the future - you will need to be able to ask him questions.

And please remember that there is no one action, or comment, that you can make that would have the power to make or break your R. Tarnsy - you are not that powerful!

I think you are starting to see the value of plan B. If you continue to talk to this WH, and see him, you WILL lose all love for him. you will grow disgusted with him. You need to protect yourself.

and by the way - I used to laugh when I could hear OW in the back ground. Trust me - it bothers her a lot more than it bothers you. She is terrifed when he talks to you. If you get the chance to talk to him again, before plan B - drag the conversation on as long as possible. it will cause a certain fight between the two of them.
Perhaps I over reacted a little. It was the way that he said "so it would be better for you if I came round here ecstatically happy would it?" Perhaps I've read him all wrong and he is happy beyond his wildest dreams and he's right, I don't want to know that.

DD13 overheard our convo last night and she shouted out "why don't you just give mum an answer". Even she is of the mind that her dad is not happy, she said if he can't say yes straight away then he obviously isn't.

Received this email from WH this morning:

"Look, you have to say what’s on your mind, I understand that. I also understand to a degree how frustrating it must be feeling how you do and then saying good bye to me each time I call round.

I also think it is very important that we try to get on not only for us but the girls too.

We can talk some more tonight"

I'm beginning to feel why the h3ll should I try to get on with him when everything he has done since he met the OW has done nothing but driven a wedge between us.

Will be contacting my intermediary today so that we can finalise our arrangements for plan B.

Will update later.
Tell him....demand he be ecstatic when he is around you, otherwise you can't believe was worth throwing his family away for. That's what I told my WS. I told him that happiness was important to me and our family wasn't happy because of his A so he had better be! Boy you should have seen his face change shapes. He couldn't smile, he couldn't cry, he couldn't get mad! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> The mothership lost connection with him for a while and I had found my way to gain control.

Give him an order he couldn't do. Be Happy!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />pft: <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

The WS in him refused to do as I demanded and the WS in him knew that meant the A couldn't be happy. HA!! That threw their A into a tailspin. Imagine the WS w/the OW.....every time he smiled or tried to laugh, he saw my face demanding he be happy. Nearly drove him nuts!!! That's was the plan!

L.
Thx Orchid,

thats great advice. I'll do my best to get that in before plan B starts.

I am getting together with my intermediary tomoro evening and then I won't see WH till next week when everything should be in place so that I can hand him the letter. I figure hand written is better so that he can refer to it again and again and have to hide it from the OW!!lol

Well, WH didn't come in for the talk that he said we would have last night but I didn't think he would so no surprise there.

He sent me this email this morning:

"I don’t know if sorry is the right word, but I‘ll say it anyway. Sorry for not staying for a cuppa last night, two reasons for not, firstly it was later then I normally bring the girls home and second your comments on Sunday. I know you sent an email saying not to worry about what you said as I left, but I can’t just forget it just like that.

I know you think I am a troubled 40 year old in crisis Tarnsy but I am not, I don’t think for minute I am. To help me understand me more and to get a few answers I have made the appointment with the medium.

Its not until the 11th of sept, but that’s not too long to wait. When I phoned she said hello ****** I have been expecting your call, HOW SPOOKY IS THAT !!!!!!!"

All I can do is hope that the medium tells him that he has made a huge mistake in leaving his family and that he needs to put it right.
Medium? Spooky? Seems to me she has caller ID and probably says that to everyone who calls her so that they believe what she dishes out....Maybe you should call the Medium and let her know what's going on and ask for her help!
Well Tarnsy, if he isn't in crisis then he has lost his mind. His e-mail is wacko to say the least.

Between the 'firstly' and 'I know you think I am a troubled 40 year old in crisis Tarnsy but I am not, I don’t think for minute I am. To help me understand me more and to get a few answers I have made the appointment with the medium.'.... well he sounds a bit whacked out! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

So let's RB him....

BS: So WS, you say you are not a troubled 40 year old. What would you call someone who has difficulty writing coherent e-mails, abusing and abandoning their family, acting weird and crazy...that's just the beginning of this nut and his antics.... what would you call a guy like that? If he isn't troubled, he s/b because he is not acting like a sane kind of guy. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Yea....play back his own words. Let him know you are not buying his illogic. Then ask him if he does. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I used this on mine, it worked! Took a while though....gotta be patient! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

L.
BB, have already thought of contacting the medium myself but if she is as reputable as she is supposed to be I don't think she'd agree.

Orchid, I completely agree. I emailed WH before I saw your reply and said much the same as you suggested with a few other things thrown in. Wh then called me and said that my response was not what he expected but couldn't say what he thought I would say.

For several minutes he just listened as I calmly told him that I could only go by what I saw with my own eyes. That I don't think he's happy, that if he was that sure of his choices why does he need to see a psychic? Oh and I also threw in the comment about yes I wanted him to be ecstatically happy so that I knew it was worth all the pain.

Also restated that I'm as stubborn as he is and I'm not prepared to give up that easily on our M. Wh just listened, didn't argue back at all.

He sent me another email yesterday saying that he wants to talk about DD's (as their behaviour and happiness has seriously been affected by all this) and money. Apparently DD's are his main priority but I replied obviously not as if they were he would never have left.

I think he's going to ask again about letting DD's meet OW, how many times have we got to go thru this? It is seriously pi$$ing me off! I will give him my usual answer, I mean, how can meeting the person who has caused them and their mother untold sadness be helpful to them?

We need to get the money issue sorted tho. I think he is going to have to give me alot more than he expects. Our mortgage has just gone up by about 25%! Plus a large chunk of it was taken out for WH to start his business. And the money I receive in benefits is not a lot. He's going to have a bit of a shock!

We'll be able to renegotiate once I've finished training and can start earning money but this may prove difficult as I'll be well into plan B by then. I guess I'll cross that bridge when I come to it.

I've often read on other posts about how you'll know that your ready for plan B as your heart and your head will be in sync. Well, I think I finally feel like that today. I've felt very calm and almost serene and even said out loud "I do not need him". I don't know where it came from and surprised myself so had to say it again and I still felt OK.

I think I've had a breakthrough (hooray for me!).

Well, am off to see a friend to share a bottle or two and have a good girly chat.

Tarnsy
Went to my friends on Thurs and her H was there for the 1st part of the evening who is also a friend of WH. He was ready to not have anymore to do with WH but I asked that he keep in contact with him as WH talks to him and it's a way for me to find out whats going on in A land.

Friends H told me that OW is giving WH lots of earache over not being allowed to meet DD's (what a shame!!) so I expect thats going to be brought up again. I'm going to keep saying no so hopefully she'll LB more and more and dig herself a nice big hole!

How's this for a laugh?! WH dropped off DD's on Fri just as I'd got out of the bath to get ready for a night out. WH knew that I had been out the night before and that I also had a friends hen night on the sat. He said "three nights out on the trot? Anyone would think you were young, free and single!"

I think my jaw hit the ground! He's the one who has walked out on his family responsibilities to shack up with OW and he accuses me of acting like I'm single! Replied that yes, I suppose I am but it wasn't thru choice.

I also got the where are you going, who with and - get this - what are you wearing?! Told WH that he never asked me that when we were together, he said that was because he would be going out with me. He didn't drop the subject and said "are you wearing something nice then?" to which I just said "yes". I'll let his imagination get to work on what I wore but I definitely scrubbed up well!lol

As he left he kept looking at me and smiling and then he laughed to himself. Asked him what he was laughing at but he just mouthed something which I couldn't work out. DD8 then came running out to give WH a kiss before he left and I'll probably never know what thought came into his mind that was so funny.
Am finding each day this week a little more difficult than the one before as what would have been our 17th anniversary on sat looms closer.

I know its to be expected and I've already been thru other 1st anniversaries but this one is a little harder to bear. Knowing that WH will be with OW on our special day tears me apart.

Myself and DD's will be at a wedding of all things so at least I'll have an excuse to be in tears! My (gay) friend was coming with me but he has let me down so I'll have to rely on DD's to help me get thru the day.

Anyway, WH told me on sunday to make sure DD's would be ready for him to pick up at 9.30 on monday. Replied that it wasn't his day to have them but he'd assumed that as it was a public holiday they would be with him as he's had them all the other holidays.

Reminded him that this was not the case, he has only had them for 2 public holidays this year and 1 of those was the weekend he was here and was also the day he broke up with OW. Also said it would be nice to be asked instead of told but agreed to let DD's go with WH as it was to see family who they don't get to see very often.

When he came to pick them up he asked me what I had planned so told him that I was going shopping to buy myself a drop dead gorgeous outfit for the wedding as there was going to be lots of single men there! Then I looked him in the eyes and said or perhaps I'll be a b*tch and go for a married man instead! (Of course I would never do that!) WH didn't have an answer for that. I've been waiting ages to say something like that and he handed it to me on a plate. Everything comes to those who wait.
Tarnsy,

Quote
Knowing that WH will be with OW on our special day tears me apart

That is really tough. During his A, my FWH spent our anniversary at a romantic B&B with OW. I just didn't know it until d-day since I was out of town on a business trip. We still don't celebrate our anniversary and things tend to be just a tad tense around the date.

Are you still planning on starting your plan B soon?

Who
Who,

It never ceases to amaze me how thoughtless WS's are! How do they justify it to themselves?

Yes, I think everything is in place for plan B, WH will be here later to discuss monies (if he remembers) but I think I need an extra kick up the butt to give me the push I need to go thru with the PBL.

I keep seeing glimpses of H and it just makes it tougher to take that final step and end all contact with him, but I guess I just have to look at the long term benefits, either a recovered M or a more peaceful, happier me.
Tarnsy,

Well they certainly stop thinking with their brains!

I think some WS are just plain stubborn too. If they admit to themselves just how absurd their own behavior is, then the FOG starts to clear and you get the glimpses of the real person in there.

It is a double edged sword for WS though, because if they allow themselves to really see how horrible their actions really are, then the guilt hits them hard and fast.

Like I have said before, I have no personal experience with Plan B, but it makes perfect sense that it brings some peace to the BS. In know that it was mostly hard just to look at my FWH after d-day without thinking about the betrayal and what he had done. At times, I actually felt bitter hatred towards him, and he wasn't even actively in an A by that point.

Stay strong. You are going to get some resolution....one way or the other.

Who
Well, got thru what would have been our 17th wedding anniversary yesterday fairly unscathed. Being at a good friends wedding and having to listen to the vows was difficult and the tears came then but I managed to not fall apart completely.

DD's were well behaved and supportive as I had warned them that mum may be a little emotional and tearful, it helped to just have them with me.

Received a TM from WH before the wedding saying "just wanted to say to you and the girls to have a good day at the wedding." No mention of our anniversary (not that I was expecting it but it would have been nice) and I decided not to respond.

WH TM'd again at 10pm saying "hope you and the girls are having a good time, give them a kiss from me." Showed the message to DD13 who replied to WH, "shouldn't you be the one giving mum a kiss since it's your anniversary?! She would if she wasn't busy with the bar man!" To which WH replied, "that's good. Are you and DD8 having fun? Hope so."

I'd just like to make it clear that I was NOT "busy" with the barman altho he was very good looking and just the type I go for looks wise but I was only looking and definitely not touching! But it was nice to know that I am at least still capable of fancying somebody other than WH!
WH tm'd on sunday to tell me that I hadn't replied to his tm's the previous day! Did he really expect me to?

Yesterday (monday) I'm pretty sure I saw him drive past on his way to work altho there are other routes he could take. He also sent a tm before 9am to tell me his plans for DD's. At 9.30 he knocked at the door but I didn't answer as I was about to get in the bath. He then called to say he had tried to drop off some pic's for DD's.

I called him back to tell him why I didn't answer the door and he said "I nearly came round the back, good job I didn't then." Asked why and he said that he'd have given me a fright.

We spoke about the wedding I'd attended and asked why I hadn't responded to his tm's. Told him it was because I didn't want to. He said that the tm's were a subtext for other things he didn't know how to say. He didn't elaborate on what the subtext may be so once again I'm left wondering what he meant.

Apparently he had a terrible weekend, didn't go out and kept himself to himself and played a computer game to keep his mind off things. I said "to keep your mind off reality" to which he replied "yeah, I didn't want to think about stuff."

He then came round to drop off the pic's for DD's altho he could have waited till he picked them up later as per schedule.

When he came to pick up DD's later he informed me that our mortgage is going up even more than we thought and that he doesn't know where he is going to find another £200 a mth. Told him that he knew this would happen and that if he didn't have 2 houses to pay for it wouldn't be so much of a problem. Wh wouldn't discuss it in front of DD's so he is coming round tonight to go thru our finances.

My question is this, should I give him the response of "see my solicitor, I only talk reconciliation" or do I get this sorted myself as I am so near to plan B?

Plus, why does he keep giving me glimmers of hope that he may be regretting what he has done (from the tm's and phone call we had) and then take it all back hours later when the consequences of his actions (financial) start taking effect?
tarnsy,

Just checking in to say hi. Sounds like you are doing well. Better than your WH actually. IMHO, I think plan B is going to kick him in the shorts becasue he really appears to NEED the connection to you. Whatever OW is providing, she obviously isn't covering all his most important needs.

Take care,

Who
Hello tarnsy,
About whether to settle the money matters before going into Plan B, my guess is to do it, so that your Plan B can be more effective. When you discuss the payments, tell him you are not giving up on the marriage, but that you want to square things away "for now".

To tell him to talk to your solicitor would run up a large bill; those guys are expensive. However, I WOULD say "Once we have discussed this I must run it by my solicitor for his opinion." And do it.

Because it is better to find anything that might cost YOU money in the short or long run ahead of time, rather than bring the problem to solicitor once it has come up.

There also might be tax implications; you need to discuss that with your solicitor.

Once that is worked out, you will be ready for a Plan B that will remove one big excuse for him to be contacting you, and one big headache from whomever your go-between is. You want to make their job easier; so as not to impose on them or burn them out.

No hints to him about what is coming. SLAM. He receives your Plan B letter. Shock and awe. [post drafts on the Boards for input]

Then, as you turn out the lights and go into a dark Plan B, you won't be hassled for instance when you are at a neighborhood gathering, sitting in church, or playing board games with your girls. HE on the other hand will be pacing the floor, frustrated as heck that you are holding firm. Your go-between can tell him "The matter of the mortgage etc. is settled and tarnsy will not call you or speak to you. Read your Plan B letter. It spells out for you the way back home and back to your marriage."

The OW will have to be his venting board. It will bore and irritate her not to be the center of is attention. OR, she will forbid him to talk about it, and he will bottle it up.

She won't meet his emotional needs, and you will be completely dark. Sounds like a good path. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />
Well WH came in when he dropped off DD's and asked if he could take his collection of game cards. I'd packed them into a box with more of his belongings months ago which is still sitting in my bedroom. I'd previously told him that I wouldn't help him to collect any of his belongings as I didn't want to facilitate his moving out so WH offered to get them himself. I declined the offer as I didn't want him in my bedroom when I have almost managed to exorcise the memories of it being our bedroom.

WH pointed out that he only wanted his cards, nothing else.

WH was about to leave when I reminded him that he'd wanted to discuss our finances. Told him that I was willing to contribute to household bills but until my training is finished I can't afford much. He is of the opinion that I should be willing to take on any job so that he can decrease the amount he has to pay each month.

I told him that I was not willing to change my plans and that it's up to me what job I take. I spent most of M life doing a job I didn't enjoy so now I'm doing what I want.

WH has been more than generous with his money but as I told him that is all he has been generous with. We'd rather have him than his money.

He spouted a couple of things that I believe came straight from OW. Apparently he knows someone who only pays £*** a month, from his description this is not someone I know and the situation was different to ours. He also compared us to a friend of mine who left her H for OM but yet again he chose to ignore the different scenario.

WH has been talking about reducing the amount he pays for months now but seems unwilling to do anything about it. He arranges times when he says we will discuss it and then forgets about it. This is also true when it comes to talking about DD's, he will say in an email that the sitch needs to change ie: meeting OW and then not mention it. My guess is that OW gives him grief about sorting these things out.
Tarnsy,

Well, FWIW, he is already demonstrating how much he can afford to give you. I believe that he may not be successful in reducing the amount when he has cleary been able to pay so far.

Who
Yep, yep, he is going along in classic cakeeater style. He leaves out crumbs for you to keep you begging for more, and probably does the same with the OW. Why would he want anything different in this situation? He has the love and attention of two women!

My word, hinting that if you tm he back he was going to say more...puhleeeeze...it probably would have been more vague comments, inuendos...he is not ready to commit because he's got it too good...a wife and a girlfriend...

Yes, Plan B will shake this up.

Please promise you will move to Plan B before he gets too entrenched in this lifestyle, and you lose too much more love for him...

Can you do it? No, but you can't afford NOT to do it...unless you are willing to live this existence for the next few years...

The A WILL end...do you want months of hurt before this happens to the point where you are bitter, hurt, and angry? Or do you want to remove yourself and let the A die a natural and ugly death without you getting dragged into it, and take care of yourself for the next few months so you have energy left for recovery?
Ok, WH just brought DD's back home and again complained about the cost of taking them out and not being able to take them to OW's house.

Went over the same ole stuff about DD's not wanting to meet OW and that he needs to find things to do that don't cost money when he said "I don't know if this will put your mind at rest but this is probably going to mean the end of my relationship."

Replied that I hope he isn't blaming me and DD's.

Wh also restated that he will never marry OW. Asked him what he wants to happen in the future and he couldn't reply.

He will be here again tomorrow to take DD's out so I suppose my question is should I say anything more or let the subject drop? Should I still continue with plan B or hang on if his R with OW is already on the rocks?
Posted By: WhoMe Re: My story of how I came to MB - Need advice - 09/10/07 02:39 PM
Tarnsy,

Quote
Should I still continue with plan B or hang on if his R with OW is already on the rocks?

Well, I guess that depends on your state of mind right now. What if he goes back and forth for several months trying to decide what he wants to do? Can you afford (emotionally) to have this torment in your life for much longer?

Honestly, something to remember is that ending the affair and getting WH back home is important, very important, but it is just the FIRST step toward recovery.

IMHO, you need to save some love and get some peace of mind because the roller coaster will continue to some degree even after he comes home.

I didn't experience having my FWH living with the OW or even having the A ongoing while I knew about it and I can tell you, finding recovery was pure He!! for me.

My instinct tells me that if things aren't going well with OW, the added stress of not having those needs met by OW that you are currently meeting might just hasten the end of the A.

JMHO,

Who
Posted By: WhoMe Re: My story of how I came to MB - Need advice - 09/11/07 03:12 PM
"Bump" for Tarnsy.

You OK?

Who
Posted By: _Ace_ Re: My story of how I came to MB - Need advice - 09/12/07 02:34 PM
Hi Tarnsy,

Haven't read your whole thread yet or posted to you before....but will soon.

Ace

(Thanks for the heads up, Who...and for caring.)
Thx for the bump Who. I'm ok, pretty good in fact.

Hi Ace, thx for taking the time to look at my thread. I have seen lots of your posts and look forward to hearing your take on my sitch.

Quick update - Sunday (day after WH came out with "this might mean the end of my relationship") WH arrived to pick up DD's looking pi$$ed off. Could have been because of residual feelings from the previous nights convo or something else, who knows?

As I made up a cup of tea I suggested to WH that he put the Grand Prix on the tv whilst he wait for DD's. This caused him to laugh as I loathed the amount of time that WH devoted to the GP. WH commented that I never said that when we were together, told him that this was part of the new me.

He ended up staying for about 1 1/2hrs watching the GP and explaining things to me about rules and such like. DD13 decided that she didn't want to go out with WH and DD8 and she and I had a bit of a disagreement about this as she expects to do only the things that she enjoys (which usually cost £££) and doesn't want to do things that others may want to do.

It was a pretty typical teenage daughter versus mum altercation which got a little loud so WH intervened and told her off for shouting at me. It was good to not have to deal with DD13 on my own for a change and I think I may have scored a few points with WH as we often clashed when it came to disciplning DD's, I thought he was too strict and he thought I was too soft. In fact, DD13 brought this up and said that I used to stick up for her. I replied that she was right but that I'd realised my mistake in not showing a united front with WH and this was something I was hoping to rectify.

Anyway, WH and DD8 went out and DD13 stayed home with me, all friends again.

WH and DD8 returned about 3 hours later having had a good time at the cultural event at the local park. I had recorded the rest of the GP for WH so suggested that he stop to watch it.

WH perched himself on the edge of the sofa looking decidedly uncomfortable and watched the race whilst I carried on cooking a lovely roast dinner and DD's were in and out doing their stuff. I was going to ask WH to stop for dinner but BIL called needing the car (they currently share) so WH left once the race finished. All in all, he was here about 3 hours.

I have to add here that DD13 made a great comment to WH. Somehow we'd got onto the subject of DD13 wedding (a long way off, I hope!) when she said "I want to make a rule about my wedding - SHE is not allowed to come, it's my day and I don't want HER there". Obviously she meant OW. WH knew exactly who she was talking about and just stood there looking a bit sheepish. Yay for DD13!!

Will be back later as WH had his reading with the medium yesterday so have more to tell but got to go prepare dinner now.

Tarnsy
WH had his tarot reading with a medium on Tuesday and told me some of what she said. Overall he gave her 75% for accuracy.

She told him that he had a daughter of 14 (nearly right, she is 14 on Sunday!) but no mention of DD8(!)

She said that he had been through a period of loss and sadness and had let other people influence his thinking but no longer let this happen.

She asked him if it made sense that she could see 3 objects in a triangle. He was one at the top and there were 2 other people. You'll love this bit, she said he was a "fence sitter" and that he plodded along not wanting to make decisions! How spooky is that?!

She also said that he didn't really know me, that I put up barriers, which is true and is one of the things that I have been working on. But she did say that I had changed a lot and that I really loved him.

She told him that although he loved me, he wasn't in love with me but she made no mention of the fact that we were separated. She then told him that the cards signifying his future represented family and contentment.

So, all in all, I'm glad he went. I did have my reservations about it but I don't think I could have asked for a better reading for WH from my POV.

WH and I met up today to buy DD13's birthday present, he was only going to give me his share of the money but ended up coming with me to buy it. I asked WH "what did your adultery partner think about you going to a medium?" he replied "She doesn't know I went." I had wondered if he'd told her, now I'll have to find out the reason why he didn't.

WH said he's remembered some more of what the medium had said but laughingly said that he couldn't tell me. He did say that the next three months is going to be a time of mourning, not necessarily literally, so I'll just hope that that means his withdrawal from OW!

As WH drove me home he commented that he'd had a very pleasant morning, told him I did too. Who knows, maybe the fog is starting to lift!
tarnsy, good progress in blowing the fog away. DD14's comment had its effect, you can be sure, and whatever prompted him to visit a medium would have to do with him not being certain of his path. And he confides this in you, hmm, you, not "the love of his life", but you, mother of his daughters, his Wife! Things in fogland are crumbling.
Posted By: WhoMe Re: My story of how I came to MB - Need advice - 09/14/07 05:31 PM
Tarnsy,

Sounds promising. I'm keeping my fingers crossed for you!

Who
Posted By: _Ace_ Re: My story of how I came to MB - Need advice - 09/15/07 03:33 PM
Tarnsy,

I just read your whole thread and I am so impressed with your level-headedness, your willingness to learn and your efforts to protect your DDs at all cost.

I have little time, now, but I at least wanted to make a brief comment and will continue to follow your thread.

Also, I learned something from Bob P (again) in his comment about mid-thread:

Quote
No sentiment, no neediness, no bucket required.

In the tens of couples I have advised here and the hundreds I have read here I have never seen a recovery spring from such desperate groveling. Dignity with conciliation, while being the best spouse you can sustainably be is what attracts spouses back.

I think I will have to re-think my name. I don't use the "in-a-bucket" part now anyhow. But I was a 'bucket-case' when I first posted 8 months ago.

Blessings to you and especially Womanoffaith5 for always checking up on you and giving you such stellar advice.

Quote
Thx for the bump Who. I'm ok, pretty good in fact.

Hi Ace, thx for taking the time to look at my thread. I have seen lots of your posts and look forward to hearing your take on my sitch.


And thanks to Who for telling me about your thread. I can't post during the week so it makes it difficult, but I'm glad I could read it on the weekend.

And, finally, thanks for your kind comment about seeing my posts around and looking forward to my comments. I have nothing but admiration for you and pray that your rewards are soon in arriving.

Praying for you,

Ace
Posted By: WhoMe Re: My story of how I came to MB - 09/19/07 07:50 PM
Extra BIG Bump for Tarnsy.

Been thinking about you classy lady. How are you doing....?

you don't want to worry an old grandmotherly type now do you?

Who
Posted By: tarnsy Re: My story of how I came to MB - 09/20/07 12:15 PM
Hi Who,

Thx for thinking of me, sorry if I caused you concern and I'm sure that you're not old!!

Had a good weekend, took DD's to a pool party near London which meant we had to get a train there and back which I was a little worried about as I knew it would be late and train stations at night are not pretty!

We had a great time, DD8 spent the whole time in the pool only coming out to eat! The girls were both well behaved and did me proud!

Sunday was DD14's(!) birthday. WH came round at 10.30 and to be honest, his absence whilst DD14 opened her presents wasn't even mentioned. Maybe we're getting used to it!

WH stayed a couple of hours and then DD14's friends came round for fun and food. DD14 thanked me lots for a great day and a good time was had by all.

I persauded WH to tell me some more of what the psychic said to him and he said that he would email it as it would be better in writing, ie; he didn't want to say it to my face!

He wrote that she had told him that he needed to spend 6mths on his own and that whoever truly loves him would stand by this and wait for him!!

He said that he can't afford to live on his own (he still pays the bills for family home) but I don't think he would do that even if he had plenty of money.

I replied that I thought he wouldn't do it as he is the type of person who needs someone to support and love him and having been on my own for nearly a year now, that I know how tough it is. Pointed out that I have been "waiting" for 10 months now and asked what does that tell you?

Part of me just wants to give up, forget about him ever coming home but then I think about how much I love him and how much my children would love to have their family complete again and I'm torn about what to do. I have been wondering how many WS's have returned to the M after living with their OP and if so how long was it before reality interfered with the fantasy.

Received an email from WH this morning telling me that he can no longer afford to pay our bills and that I need to contribute money either by getting a job (I start training as a dance instructor saturday) or by seeing if there is more money that I an entitled to claim as a single parent. He believes that I am not getting everything I should be, he could be right as I have never had to do this before! He said we will talk more saturday.

So, another roller coaster week in the life of a BS! I'm feeling a little down and pi$$ed off at the mo but I know from previous experience that it will pass. Any words of wisdom will be much appreciated.

Ace, thx for taking the time to read my thread and for your kind words.
Posted By: WhoMe Re: My story of how I came to MB - 09/20/07 12:51 PM
Tarnsy,

I have no experience in plan B, but your WH has been on this fence for a long time now. It appears that he really is having some needs met by OW and the rest by you. As long as that continues, it may be a very long time before financial reality etc. set in.

I don't know the laws in UK, but I suspect that in the eyes of the authorities, you are not a single mom as you are still married, even tho your WH lives elsewhere.

Honestly, this is taking a much bigger toll on you than it is on him and only you are going to be able to change that via Plan B.

Have you given up on starting a plan B. I'm afraid for you that if you are willing to settle for crumbs from your WH, that is all he is going to give to you.

And that is no way to live.

YOu take care of yourself.

Who
Posted By: tarnsy Re: My story of how I came to MB - 09/20/07 01:28 PM
Thx for the quick reply Who,

I have not given up on plan B. The letter is written and ready to go. I'm the only one holding me back. My thoughts seem to change almost daily and I am realising now that they depend on WH attitude towards me.

When he is being H and giving me hopes that he is having 2nd thoughts then I am disinclined to give him the PBL and then he is back to being WH and I just want to shove it in his face!

I know that this can't carry on and that I need to take control but I guess I'm afraid of taking that leap into the unknown.

WH is 40 on tuesday, my present thinking is to give him the PBL in his card. What do you think?

Tarnsy
Posted By: WhoMe Re: My story of how I came to MB - 09/20/07 01:41 PM
I can only imagine how hard it is to take that step. I think that it certainly appears your WH just can't move in one direction or the other and right now he doesn't have to.

ALso, I don't think that he or any fogged out WS can see or even imagine how their fence sitting makes things so much worse for the BS.

I have trouble advising you on Plan B as I never had to do one, but IMHO, you have plan A'd for more than long enough.

I guess that giving him the letter in his birthday card is OK, but others here may have other, more valid recommendations.

BTW, Monday (Sept 24th) is my FWH's 41st birthday.

Stay calm and determined. I do believe that ultimately a good plan B will bring him home, not drive him away.

Who
Posted By: _Ace_ Re: My story of how I came to MB - 09/20/07 01:52 PM
Hi Tarnsy,

Remember Plan B is for YOU, regardless what WH thinks or does. If you are not in that mindframe, it won't work. Who is right that you need a plan B...I don't recall seeing your PBL in your thread, but I read it in one sitting so it may have been there and I missed it.

If not.....be sure you get the MB Vets to help you. It does not sound like you're ready yet.

Before you start seriously considering plan B, it might be a good idea to seek MB Veteran help with your letter and how to proceed. You can change your thread title if the first post has an 'edit' option.

I do admit I've never done Plan B, but I've been watching Sexymamabears' thread.....you might read up on her sitch first. It's called "Now eating my words" on this forum.

Is your support system in place? Do you have an intermediary? It will work if you are truly prepared emotionally and physically for it to protect what love you have for WH, regardless what he does. The darknesss is what protects. You might call out for Silentlucidity.....she just had a plan B produce the needed results.....it is hard and will take more time. But it works if you're prepared.

(It protects the love you have left and shows WH what he is really missing when you're gone due to darkness while there's still time ~ maybe ~ for him to de-fogg.)

It sounds like his request for 6 months' permission to fence sit is a "one last fling with OW" smokescreen. You HAVE been waiting for 10 months.....how much more does he need. It's fog speak......you would wait forever...until your love totally died and then it would be over.

IF you want to save your M, don't let him call the shots....act now before your tolerance, endurance and love for him is totally depleted.

RE: finances......total bull. He not only wants you to allow him to cake eat, he wants you to subsidize it.

If you can't change your title, it might be a good time to seriously start a new thread saying "Tarnsy needs Help With Plan B Letter etc." and then link it to this thread. Neither Who or I have that experience and she's not around much today.

I'm praying for you,
Ace

P.S. I also pray that if I've given you any advice that needs tweaking, that other MB posters will correct it. I won't be able to post much today either.
Posted By: MarriedForever Re: My story of how I came to MB - 09/21/07 07:33 PM
Tarnsy ~

I don't know your story, but Who asked me to post to you...

I also Plan A'ed my H for 10 months, but we were in FALSE RECOVERY ~ he was telling me the A was over, but it wasn't. I can't imagine how hard it must be to Plan A when he is ACTIVELY having an A.

Tarnsy, because of this I am seriously worried about your mental health, and that your WH's cruelness is going to kill any remaining love you have for him...and that if you ever DO get into recovery, the ANGER and RESENTMENT that you are going to feel because of his cruelty and selfishness are going to make recovery VERY hard.

It has for me, that's why I am telling you this.

Plan B is for YOU, Tarnsy...to get strong, to make changes in yourself that will BETTER your marriage if/when you get into recovery.

But it also will remove you from meeting your H's ENs, and that will give him a good taste of what life will be like with OW alone trying to meet his ENs. And she WILL fail. It is quite obvious that he really likes you meeting his ENs.

Tarnsy, I really encourage you to go to Plan B. I felt SO GOOD once I did. The hardest part is DOING it....but once you are there, it is a nice relief.

~MF
Posted By: tarnsy Re: My story of how I came to MB - 09/24/07 08:42 AM
Who,

Hope your FWH has a good birthday, I don't think my WH is looking forward to turning 40. Do you think your FWH's A had anything to do with a MLC?

Ace,

My PBL is on page 11 of this thread. Intermediary is in place. I know that plan B is for me and will ultimately give me piece of mind but it is just that whenever I think that my heart and my head are in sync, something happens to make me wonder if they really are. Like this weekend, but more about that in abit.

MF,

Thanks for looking in on me and voicing your concerns. TBH, I haven't found plan A that difficult to do with WH not living here, I think it would have been alot harder had he still been at home. As it is, the only EN's I can fulfill are convo (which is quite important to WH), admiration (which would be near the top of his list) and emotional support. I know that I need to make sure that I enter plan B at the right time, before my LB empties but as I mentioned above, something always occurs to make me rethink if the time is right.

Will be back later to let you know what occured over the weekend.

Tarnsy
Posted By: tarnsy Re: My story of how I came to MB - 09/24/07 01:23 PM
WH picked up myself and DD8 from dancing at 11am and drove us home to pick up DD14. WH planned to take them to the park but ended up staying here til 2.30. They came back at 6pm with new DVD's and WH stayed again to watch one of the films. It was all quite strange, WH was relaxed and it was almost like the old days. DD14 commented that WH kept looking at my "lady bumps" but I have to say that I didn't notice!

Sunday, WH turned up looking pi$$ed off. I asked what was wrong, got a rather gruff "nothing" in reply. I said "you mean nothing you want to talk to me about" WH replied "not really".

He then volunteered the information that no-one could help him as no-one had been in this situation. Asked him which situation that was and he replied, the one he found himself in. I told him that he didn't find himself in this sitch, he created it, to which he replied "I don't mean the whole sitch, just the part where my DD's aren't allowed to meet OW".

So yet again, reminder WH it was DD's decision to not meet OW and that it wasn't fair to blame me for this. He said that they had wanted to meet her initially (back in Jan, I think they said they would but they were being pressured by WH, MIL and FIL) but reminded him that this was before they knew the truth of how long WH and OW had been seeing each other.

WH told me that OW is going to dump him unless he sorts it out. Told him this is not about what she wants but about DD's. Told him that his fantasy of playing happy families with my kids every other weekend was not going to happen.What does he expect me to do, say OK then, take DD's to meet OW so that you can save your adulterous relationship?

I said "you've obviously had an arguement with OW and it's not fair for you to bring your anger out on me", (he denied that they'd argued - yeah right!) "you were alright yesterday so something was said". I took some of Orchids advice and told him that if he was going to carry on giving me his crap to deal with and continue to be in wayward mode he could leave now but if wants to talk to me as my H then he can stay. This shut him up and the subject was changed.

Wh was here for 2hrs before leaving and as he and DD's were about to leave, DD14 again said that she didn't want to go. She and I had a disagreement again (any help on how to resolve this greatly appreciated) about doing things that others want to do, but this time she got to me with some name calling. I kept calm with her but had to walk away from the sitch before I cried in front of everyone.

WH realised something was wrong and came over to give me hug and tell me not to cry (the first time he has touched me for 3mths!). WH and DD's left to go swimming at which point the floodgates opened.

WH and DD's came home and relaxed in the living room looking for all intents and purposes like a "normal" family, watching tv and playing games on the WII, whilst I cooked dinner. I did invite WH to stay but he declined. As WH left I told him to have a good evening, He raised his eyebrows and gave me a look that said "I doubt it" so I wished him good luck. And for the first time in 3mths I got a kiss and a hug goodbye.

So, will OW dump WH? I don't think she will. She obviously thinks that I'm stopping DD's from meeting her so she would see it as "losing" to me.

If she does, what do I do next? I've always said to myself that I wouldn't take him back if she ended it as it seems to me that "I" would find that harder to recover from. Would I be able to cope with the thought that if she came back on the scene that WH would run back? The feeling of being 2nd best, that he only came home because OW threw him out? I don't know.

WH will be here later to pick up DD's so will find out then whether the A is over or not. I'm not getting my hopes up.

Tarnsy
Posted By: _Ace_ Re: My story of how I came to MB - 09/25/07 01:48 PM
Hi Tarnsy,

Quote
Ace,

My PBL is on page 11 of this thread. Intermediary is in place. I know that plan B is for me and will ultimately give me piece of mind but it is just that whenever I think that my heart and my head are in sync, something happens to make me wonder if they really are.


Sorry I missed your PBL...does this weekend change it?

I'm not sure what I would do in your sitch. What if she dumps him and you reject him, too.... but change your mind later?

Regrets...hmmmmm <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> ...I guess you could always remarry him. Just a thought.

Ace
Posted By: WhoMe Re: My story of how I came to MB - 09/25/07 08:08 PM
Tarnsy,

I don't get what the OW's obsession with having a relationship with your DD's seems to be about really.

I guess what I am wondering is if maybe your WH isn't using this as an excuse for the affair ending rather than the truth.

The male ego is weird and I don't think we women folk can always make any sense of it.

Initially, right after d-day, my FWH preferred that I think that the affair ended because OW made him chose between she and I and he chose me.

The reality was that OW had threatened him into remaining in the affair and he was afraid of her and of what she would do. He was ashamed that he hadn't manned up to her instead of letting her make him dance to her tune for three months after he first tried to end the A.

FWIW, IMHO I still think that you need to plan B him so that he gets a glimps of what a Tarnsy free life will look like. He has been sitting on the fence eating cake long enough. Perhaps that dose of reality might bring him home before OW has a chance to boot him out.

Who
Posted By: faithful26 Re: My story of how I came to MB - 10/04/07 08:03 PM
Hey Tarnsy,

I just wanted to add my 2.5 cents,, I feel the reason she wants a relationship with your daughters is because she doesn't like all the time he spends with the girls at your house. Didn't you write that he has stayed and watched the Grand Prix, he has stayed and ate dinner? If I was to bet on it I'd say she doesn't like him being out of her sight and with the the wife. She is feeling threaten, or at the very least it's a control issue on her end.

Just my very humble opinion, take it for whatever it is worth. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />... F-26
Posted By: tarnsy Re: My story of how I came to MB - 10/05/07 01:37 PM
Hi F-26, thx for taking the time to post.

You could well be right but I'm betting that WH doesn't tell OW that he stays at the house as long or as often as he does. OW is probably told that he takes DD's out all day which is what is supposed to happen. I know if I was OW I wouldn't like to think that he was with his W!

Hi Who and Ace,

I have been keeping away from the boards as I have been a little depressed the last couple of weeks and reading the posts of people going though what I was a while ago only succeeds in bringing it all back to me. Hopefully soon I will feel able to give support and advice to those who are struggling in those awful early days.

To carry on from my last post, OW did not dump WH. Not that I thought she would but WH obviously felt the need to tell me this to keep me dangling.

Gave WH a card for his birthday with lovely words that I edited to give it more emphasis on the past. DD14 edited her card as well as it said something along the lines of "thankyou for being a great dad who is always there for us", she crossed out "is" and put "was".

WH sent me an email saying that this upset him but told him she was expressing the truth how she see's it.

Have not had much contact with WH, deliberately, I guess trying to prepare myself for when I go to Plan B. In fact I have found myself thinking of Plan D on more than one occassion which is something that I haven't thought about for months. I don't want a D but now that he has been gone for almost a year I wonder if I'm wasting my time.

Plus I have read a few of the threads on recovery and it seems so daunting! Even a few of the vet's here seem to be going through some tough times 2-3 yrs after Dday. Altho I realised that none of this would be easy I'm asking myself if I'm up to the job.
Posted By: WhoMe Re: My story of how I came to MB - 10/05/07 01:51 PM
Hi Tarnsy,

I saw that you were on the forum and was about to post to you. I know that you are familiar with what plan A and plan B are and why you go to plan B.

IMHO, you are long overdue for plan B and having so effectively plan A's for sooooo long, I believe that you may be starting to lose your love for your WH. Which is probably why you are leaning more towards plan D right now.

You might want to launch an immediate plan B effort for a specific length of time, say 3 months, to give your WH a preview of life without you. If that doesn't bring him home to you, then I would certainly move to plan D, but that's just my opinion and this is your life.

You are correct that recovery is no picnic. It has been the most difficult thing I have ever had to do in my life and I still occasionally, though not very frequently anymore, wonder if I would have been better off not bothering.

Your WH is a classic fence sitter and you are going to have to make him pick a side of the fence.

Please take care of yourself.

Who
Posted By: _Ace_ Re: My story of how I came to MB - 10/05/07 01:59 PM
Quote
Your WH is a classic fence sitter and you are going to have to make him pick a side of the fence.

Please take care of yourself.


I agree with Who......sorry it's so tough. Posting your thoughts (or at least journaling them somewhere) will help.

Ace
Posted By: faithful26 Re: My story of how I came to MB - 10/05/07 02:38 PM
Tarnsy

You are right recovery is not fun,, I've wondered many times in my almost 5 yr journey if it was going to be worth it and if I was or had done the right thing. Should I have just cut my losses back in 2002 when he started the I love you but..crap. But either I was too stubborn or just too dumb I kept fighting and holding on, sometimes just day by day and others hour by hour. But I could't quit on him or on us. I prayed and prayed for wisdom, guidance, STRENGTH, and endurance, when I wanted to quit (many, many times)I just felt like God was saying " be still and know that I am God". That gave me hope, and I'd keep plugging along.

I think I had posted to that my hubby lived with the OW for 8.5 months, and he fenced sat for a good year when he came home.

Things are so different now I have the marriage I've always wanted, I have grown so much, I love my husband like I never knew possible. I just never give up on him. (again either too stubborn or dumb LOL) Just the other day he came in with the new Rascall Flatts CD and he played me a song off of that CD called Everyday and it goes "You could have bowed out gracefully but you didn't, you knew enough to know to leave well enough alone but you wouldn't......everyday you save my life"

You have to do what you think is best for you and your children, but, I just want to encourage you that even when it looks so dark there is still hope. I wish I could reach out and give you a big old hug, but I guess a cyber hug is the best I can do ((Tarnsy))

I'll keep you in my prayers,, F-26
Posted By: tarnsy Re: My story of how I came to MB - 10/05/07 03:28 PM
F-26,

Your post has indeed given me some hope! I have often wondered if there are many WS's who return home after living with the OP. I have failed to find many instances of this here and have not seen your story. You are proof that there is still hope for WH to come to his senses! Thankyou for the hope and the hug!

Who and Ace,

I know I need to go to plan B before it's too late and thankyou for all your advice and encouragement. I don't know what it is that is holding me back. I know that it will bring me peace and relief from the turmoil but it still scares me.

I have read the threads of others who are in plan B at the mo and it seems that it brings out the worst in the WS even pushing them to D perhaps sooner than they would have. I know that plan B is "for me" but lets face it, it's a last ditch attempt at getting the WS to see what it is they are giving up.

Maybe that's what it is that I'm scared of, that plan B is my last chance and if it doesn't bring WH home then that is it and D is inevitable. Yeah, I think that is what frightens me (lightbulb moment for Tarnsy!).

Thx everyone again, I really do appreciate you all taking the time to post.

Tarnsy
Posted By: faithful26 Re: My story of how I came to MB - 10/05/07 04:13 PM
hey hon,,

Please don't beat yourself up on doing or not doing a plan "B". Everyone kept telling me I was letting him have his cake and eat it too, including my pastor. I just couldn't do it, I couldn't let go of the last string that I felt held me to him. Was it fear of totally losing him? Was it stubborness that I was not going to let "her" have him, I don't know..both maybe. But, I do know when you are ready to draw that line in the sand you will know it and you will do it!

F-26
Posted By: tarnsy Re: My story of how I came to MB - 10/05/07 04:47 PM
F-26,

Is there a thread of yours I could read? I searched your name but nothing came up.

thx

Tarnsy
Posted By: faithful26 Re: My story of how I came to MB - 10/05/07 04:57 PM
I never did do a profile.

I just did a search on myself (faithful26) and found my old post.

I didn't know about Marriage Builders while hubby and I where seperated but found it after he came home.
Posted By: womanoffaith5 Re: My story of how I came to MB - 10/05/07 06:07 PM
Is it worth it all? Is HE worth it all? Can we ever get past all of this?

These are all valid questions, and you are wise to think them through carefully. It IS possible to recover, fully, and have a better M. Many people have done that very thing. There is hope. Now is the time for YOU to decide what you want. Often times we spend too much time worrying about what the WS wants, and how can we make sure that he wants us.

Take time, now, to consider that you can decide what you want to do with your life.
For me – when my WS first left, I was devastated and would have done anything to bring him back. Absolutely anything. nice he said that OW liked to swear. You name it.

But as time went by – and he showed no signs of returning, I was able to look back over the 18 years of our M and recall that he was never a great H. I admit that I was not the perfect W – but I wasn’t all bad either. I certainly wasn’t the demon he made me out to be. Whiel we were M, I knew that I was putting up with a lot of his bad behavior, but I would have stayed with him forever, because that is what you are supposed to do.

But as time went by, I began to realize that I was better off without him. My home was peaceful. The boys and I were enjoying ourselves more.

So I never went to plan B. I stayed in plan A until I was finally done with him – and then I filed for D. I have NO regrets. I did what was best for me and my boys.
BUT – I do wish I had done a plan B. Not necessarily to save the M – I don’t know that it would have in my case. But it would have given my WH one last chance to see what life would be like after the D. He honestly thought that we would get a D and everything would be just fine. We would be friends, and we could both go to Christmas dinner at his parents home, and everything would be fine. He would marry OW, and some day I would find a new H, and the 4 of us would be great friends. But that is just not the case. When you have been through all of this crap – you do not maintain a friendship with your Ex. He did not understand that. I understood it, but didn’t really verbalize that to him until after the D. I guess I tried to be nice until after the D was final, and then I let him know that we would co-parent the kids, but we would not be friends. (when I started dating my new H, my ex even tried to invite us to go out to dinner with him and OW#2)

If I were going to say that I had any regrets – it is just that I could have done a plan B, to show him the reality of what he was asking for. He wanted the D, kept talking about it. I could have shown him the reality of it, just to give him one last chance to change his mind. But I waited too long, and I had no love left for him at all.

If you are ever going to do Plan B, it has to be now. You are losing your love for him, rapidly. You will start to hate him after awhile. And then it will be too late.

One other thing about plan B – he needs to see exactly what life is like, without you, so he does not do any of that fence sitting crap when he does return. The poster above says that she never did plan B. her WH returned and sat on the fence for a year. You can avoid that – if you give him a swift kick in the pants right now. Do a solid plan B, and do not budge until he meets ALL the requirements. That way, he will know what will happen to him if he does not give up this crap for ever.

I guess what I am saying is this:
1. search your heart. Is this the man you want to spend the rest of your life with? Why? If you were meeting him right now, for the first time, would you be interested in him? OR, do you just want him back because it seems like the easier way. You don’t want the OW to have him, and it would be easier to stay with him.

2. If you decide that he is the man you want to be married to – then take the necessary steps NOW to build a good foundation. Letting him come and go as he pleases is destroying your self esteem, and respect. He will do that forever if you let him. Is that the role model you want to show your girls?

Tarnsy – it is time to make a decision, and stick with it.
His A will NOT last – not a chance. So please quit worrying about that skank ho, and get to work.
Posted By: faithful26 Re: My story of how I came to MB - 10/05/07 07:01 PM
WoF

Hey while I do agree with alot of what you posted above and perhaps you are right that if I had given him a "swift kick in the pants" he may not of fence sat for a year, but you do not know that neither do I.Things are rarely that black and white. Each person and relationship is different. But I did know that in my situation a true hands off plan B would have not worked. As a matter of fact in my case that would have been the end of my marriage.

There is no formula, no one size fits all when dealing with an affair. Each person has to find their own way, I just wanted to add my 2cents as support to Tarnsy and not to try to tell anyone what they should or should not do. F-26
Posted By: tarnsy Re: My story of how I came to MB - 10/05/07 07:03 PM
WOF5,

Wise words as ever!

You have given me much to think about and lots of questions that I need to look deep inside myself for the answers to.

I will go over all the posts again at the weekend. DD14 and I are now about to have a girly night in front of the tv as the new series of Ugly Betty starts here tonight. We both loved the first series so we have looked forward to it starting again for a while!

Have a good weekend

Tarnsy
Posted By: cgw Re: My story of how I came to MB - 10/05/07 08:54 PM
Plan B was for ME!
it helped me figure out what I wanted.
it gave me peace of mind.
my FWH says he thought we could be friends too...till I set him straight about NOT remaining a part of his life.
give him a dose of reality to clear out his fogginess.
at first, he may enjoy the distance, but eventually, there will be cracks in his & OW's relationship due to her inability to meet those needs you are now meeting.
it took a couple of months, but my FWH realized what he would be losing and tells me that he missed me so much and could not imagine life without me.
give him a preview of the consequences of his choices.
it will be the eye-opener he needs.

hugs,
cgw
Posted By: smartiepants2 Re: My story of how I came to MB - 10/05/07 10:18 PM
Tarnsy

I'm not here to give advice, just perspective.

My D-day was 4/8. Was in Plan A until 6/27 when WH announced that he was leaving to move in with OW. He has been there ever since.

F-26 is right when she says that each relationship is different and for some situations Plan B may be the fast track to Plan D.

I will only say this: Plan A nearly killed my spirit. I felt like an idiot trying to save my M when my WH made it clear each day that all he wanted was to be with OW without interference from me. So when he left, I was relieved in many ways.

In Plan B I have found a true measure of peace. As much as I miss my WH(or to be honest--the person I thought he was) I'll take this loneliness any day over the agony I felt while he was here with me and longing for another woman, and the rage I felt each time he disrespected me as his wife.

Plan B has also given me an opportunity to look at our M objectively and to see the good and bad parts for what they were. Bottom line: while my WH has many good qualities, at base he was immature, weak, self-centered and lazy. These traits were present long before he had the A, and I saw them clearly but I chose to overlook them because I loved him, because I made vows to him which said "for better or for worse".

But now that it seems I will have my freedom in the summer of 2008 (I don't think my WH will come home even if he breaks up with OW and I don't want him back), I can say that I look forward to the chance to be with a man that I can respect and who wants to share love and life with me as a true partner. And I'm using this time to be a better me -- for the family and friends I have now, and for the relationships (romantic or not) that I'll have later.

When they say God works in mysterious ways, it's true...

Pray and focus for guidance. Then do whatever is best for you and your children. I'm pulling for you.

Smartie
Posted By: womanoffaith5 Re: My story of how I came to MB - 10/06/07 12:04 AM
Quote
Bottom line: while my WH has many good qualities, at base he was immature, weak, self-centered and lazy. These traits were present long before he had the A, and I saw them clearly but I chose to overlook them because I loved him, because I made vows to him which said "for better or for worse".


SP - this statement describes what I discovered about my WxH exactly. Especially when you say your WH is weak. I never thought about it before, but when I read this post it suddenly hit me. Weak. That describes my WxH. And I think that is the trait that convinced me that he would never be 100% faithful to anyone. His weakness would always take over.

Well spoken.
Posted By: tarnsy Re: My story of how I came to MB - 10/10/07 01:58 PM
Will reply to all the previous posts in a while.

In the meantime, I have become increasingly concerned with DD's over the last few weeks. DD14 seems to be sliding into depression. It's a struggle to get her to go to school and when she is home she doesn't want to do anything other than sit indoors with her laptop. I have tried to get her to start a new hobby (she's done just about everything in the past but has never found anything to stick at) but she says nothing interests her. She even refused my offer of having friends over for a sleepover. She describes it as "not feeling herself".

DD8 has been getting violent with myself and with DD14. It culminated at the weekend with her hitting me in the face with a rolled up newspaper. She gets very angry at the slightest thing (usually when she can't have or do what she wants) resulting in her shouting, screaming, hitting and kicking. I have tried "time-out" in her bedroom, she just screams louder and kicks the door. I tried putting her on the naughty step, only for her to kick that door too.

As I have been struggling with these situations for a few weeks now I decided to get in contact with my C who I saw after Dday and for the next few months. She has much experience in dealing with children of D'd/S'd parents and she has agreed to take on DD's. DD14 will see her first in 2 weeks.

I would just like some opinions on what the effect of plan B may have on DD's at this point. They are both going thru a lot of turmoil at the moment (I believe because of the current sitch with WH i.e him spending time here), will plan B ease that or make it worse?

thx in advance
Posted By: Bellevue Re: My story of how I came to MB - 10/10/07 07:04 PM
To answer whether Plan B will stress your DDs more or help them, I don't know the answer.

They are suffering with the sitch your H has created. They are behaving the way you are feeling. They don't have the life experience or maturity to hold it together. Nice of your WH, to leave this in his wake.

Maybe Plan A with its mixed message - Dad is going out with another woman, he's moved out, yet he hangs out here - what the heck is going on? is making the girls crazy. Good Lord, he is selfish!
Posted By: WhoMe Re: My story of how I came to MB - 10/15/07 03:09 PM
Tarnsy,

Good to see you still around, I have been on a cruise for the past week. It looks to me like your DD's are suffering because they, like you are uncertain as to what the future will bring.

Right now, unfortunately, your WH isn't really considering how confusing this is for them. I guess if it were me, I would have to just ask him if he ever has any intention of either coming home or just moving forward with a divorce.

I don't know if this is wise, and others here will have more valid ideas, but perhaps you should discuss plan B with your DD14. Explain the reasons for doing it and see if she will support you in it.

Every situation is different, but this lengthly plan A has probably run it's course. Your DD's could be learning that BW's just have to sit back and take the kind of behavior your WH is showing, and that isn't good.

Please take care.

Who
Posted By: faithful26 Re: My story of how I came to MB - 10/23/07 01:17 PM
Tarnsy..

How are you and your daughters doing?

I've been worried about you, please let us know how you are doing ok??

F-26
Posted By: WhoMe Re: My story of how I came to MB - 10/23/07 01:26 PM
Tarnsy,

Ditto that sentiment. Please check in and let us know that you are OK.

Who
Posted By: tarnsy Re: My story of how I came to MB - 10/26/07 05:01 PM
Thx for the concern.

Have kept away from the boards to try to clear my head and focus on myself and DD's. I often find that I get a bit wrapped up in other peoples situations, especially those that are on a similar time frame to me, and it's difficult not to compare problems. Of course this often helps but at this juncture I need to be sure of what I'm thinking and feeling.

DD14 had her 1st session with the counsellor this week and by all accounts it went well. The C spent most of the time talking about DD's problems at school (clash of personalities with a tutor) and her lack of motivation to take up hobbies and to socialise with her peers. She has given her a couple of things to do before she see's her again in a fortnight. I think she'll gain DD's confidence before she tackles more sensitive subjects.

WH has continued cake eating. He has progressed to kissing me on the lips when he leaves and has said that he won't apologise for doing so. He has also stated that I have several feathers in my cap but has not elaborated on what they may be. Altho he did say that it would take him too long to list them. There has also been lots of sexual innuendo.

WH came with me to take DD14 to her C session and I took him a lunch to eat as he had come straight from a meeting. This was a deliberate Plan A attempt which WH commented on.

We also had a 1/2 hour conversation on the phone yesterday. WH called to talk about DD's C session which ultimately turned to a convo about our current sitch. WH actually stated for the 1st time that he took 100% responsibility for his decision to have an A. This is a big step for him as he has until now stated it was 50% my fault due to the state of our relationship.

I have lurked here a couple of times over the last couple of weeks and had seen a post (from Mr.W I think) about 31 reasons to end your affair. I happened to mention the article to WH on the phone and he asked me to email it to him! I haven't done so as yet as I'm of the belief that he shouldn't need someone else to give him reasons to do something that he should already know to do. If however he asks again, I will send it.

So, to summise, nothing but mixed messages again from WH and I find my patience wearing thin. I know, I should have gone to plan B a long time ago, but as I approach the 1 year mark I find my head and my heart coming more in sync than they have been before. I will know when the right time is here for me and it isn't far off now.

Well, have a busy weekend ahead. DD8 has dancing in the morning and I also will be there to assist in a class. We are all going to a Halloween disco tomorrow night and on Sunday DD8 has her first dancing competition. I can't wait to see her in her new dress with her hair and makeup on strutting her stuff on the dance floor.

Thx again for all your concern and advise, please don't give up on me!
Have a good weekend

Tarnsy
Posted By: faithful26 Re: My story of how I came to MB - 10/26/07 10:54 PM
Hi Tarnsy,

I am glad you have "checked in", and I understand about taking a break from the boards here. I am encouraged that
WH is starting to own his actions. I feel that I was responsible for 50% of the problems that where in our marriage but he was completely 100% responsible for going outside the marriage and having an affair

As you stated I believe you will do what you need to do for your daughters and you. Its a hard place to be.

Hope DD8 had a good time at her dance,, keep us posted on how you are doing ok??
F-26
Posted By: WhoMe Re: My story of how I came to MB - 11/05/07 07:25 PM
Tarnsy,

Glad to hear that you are OK. I've been on holiday with FWH to Saint Maarten for a week and the only place we could get a wireless signal was the hotel lobby so I decided it was too much trouble to even check my email.

Just wanted you to know that I'm still here routing for you.

Best,

Who
Posted By: lousygolfer Re: My story of how I came to MB - 11/05/07 07:46 PM
Tarnsy:

Send your WH the 31 reasons.

What if he reads it and decides to come home repentant? Good right?

What if he never reads it and nothing happens? Status quo.

What if he reads it and gets angry with you? So.

So, two out of three ain't bad.

He asked you to send it, so, send it.

And if you DON'T want to get kissed on the lips, THEN DO NOT LET HIM.

Plan A does not state that you have to give up your self-respect.

LG
Posted By: WhoMe Re: My story of how I came to MB - 12/03/07 08:47 PM
"Bump" for Tarnsy ...

Are you still around? Just wondering how you are doing.

Who
Posted By: faithful26 Re: My story of how I came to MB - 12/07/07 05:51 PM
bump again, thinking of you and your girls.
Posted By: tarnsy Re: My story of how I came to MB - 12/21/07 05:21 PM
Hello everyone. Thought I'd better pop in to say Merry Christmas to everyone here who has taken the time to give me their support and advice over the months. It has been very much appreciated and I have learnt and continue to learn alot.

While I'm here I'll give you an update on the sitch. Nothing has changed. WH is still cake eating, flirting with me even though he still cohabits with the OW. He even admits to fence sitting!

Although I have been asking him for weeks what his plans were for seeing DD's over the xmas period he always replied that he hadn't had time to think about it. Until last week when he went straight to DD14 to tell her that the only time he could see them would be xmas eve IF they went to the ho's house!

As you can imagine I was not pleased! Firstly because he went behind my back and spoke directly to DD's and secondly because it gave them no option to see their dad other than if they went to her house. Also, he knows that we have special xmas eve traditions that we wont be able to fulfill if DD's are not at home.

DD14 came to me and said that although she is not happy that she has to go to the ho's house, she really wants to see her dad and this will be her only chance. I spoke to DD8 who is even more reluctant to meet the OW and she is happy to go for the same reason.

When I spoke to WH about this, it eventually emerged that OW has manipulated the sitch so that this is the only time that WH and DD's can see each other. I told him I was very disappointed in him for allowing us - including his children - to be controlled in this way. I had told him that I was happy for him to have DD's Boxing day as long as she wouldn't be there but she has made plans for WH that day. So, I have been forced into a corner, the children have been used to get to me and to allow a meeting between them and OW.

This has forced me to come to my senses and I plan to give WH my plan B letter on xmas eve. I had previously told him that I had forgiven him his A, I had forgiven him leaving his family and I had even forgiven him moving in with the OW, but I could not forgive him for bringing another person into our DD's lives.

So plan B it is. A last attempt into forcing WH into coming to his senses and a chance for me to get out of the triangle that has become my life. I know that it is long overdue although I have to say that my lovebank has not depleted as much as I thought it would! And hopefully, as an added bonus, because of the timing I think that it will put a damper on WH and OW's xmas! Oh dear, what a shame!

Once again, merry Christmas and a big thankyou to all who have bothered to add their insights especially WoF5, Who, Ace, Bellevue, faithful and everyone else.

I'll start to drop in more frequently as I'm sure that I will need lots of support while in plan B

Many thanks

tarsny

PS thanks for dropping in LG, I have seen many of your posts on other threads and you always have such insight. I hope you'll drop in again.
Posted By: WhoMe Re: My story of how I came to MB - 12/21/07 05:41 PM
Tarnsy,

I was thinking about you just yesterday and hoping that your WH had finally come to his senses.

I'm sorry, but it sure does look lile he is going to be one that really needs a plan B to understand the impact of life without you in it.

Shame on he and OW for putting your DD's and you in this position. The OW in my sitch tried to use my DD as well ... I'll save the tale for another day tho.

I think that beyond shaking your WH to his senses, you need plan B for your own well being. It appears that without it, this could go on for years. Not good for you and certainly not good for your DD's.

Hope that you have a Merry Christmas and that 2008 is a far better year for you than 2007 has been.

Best,

Who
Posted By: Orchid Re: My story of how I came to MB - 12/22/07 03:57 AM
Hi Tarnsy,

Good to hear from you. Sad that the WS is willing to risk even his children for the sake of the A and that he has no back bone since he has allowed a stinky OW to manipulate him.
He is a sad and little man.

So it's a day when he is with the OW? How about he meet your daughters for lunch? I mean does she have him on a leash?

Let's be creative.

Btw, no need to forgive him for those things you mentioned. You really shouldn't. JMHO of course. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

take care,
L.
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