I was recently part of a panel discussion at a writer's convention where the subject was "Flirting - Do's and Don'ts."

There were a fair number of people in the audience, including three high school girls.

The panel immediately started off with how harmless and fun flirting is. The other female on the panel, a cute younger married woman, mentioned how much she enjoys getting those zings of attention (she actually said that) from other men and considered it harmless fun - just something to get her through the day.

I wanted to ask her if her husband knew about her harmless fun zings of attention, but I didn't. (He was not there. I wonder why.)

At my turn, I said, "Please don't flirt with people who are married. It's massively disrespectful to that person's spouse."

Everybody's face fell and said "oh - well - but it's harmless - uh - uh - "

I said, "The difference between being friendly and being a flirt is that flirting is ALWAYS sexual."

(startled looks from the audience) "uh - what? huh?"

"Of course it's always sexual. When was the last time anybody here flirted with their parent? Or with their sister or their brother?"

(stunned looks as realization dawns)

At this point the cute young married female said, "I wouldn't have any problem with my husband flirting with other women! He's kind of shy and I think it would be cute! It would be good for him! I wouldn't mind at all!"

I put my head down on the table for a minute and tried not to have another meltdown on the spot. Then I said, "I used to think the same thing. I used to think it was cute when my husband flirted with other women and they flirted right back at him. I used to think I shouldn't let it bother me.

"I don't think that way anymore.

"The biggest problem is this: Getting those sexual zings of attention is exactly like a drug to many, many people, both male and female.

"As with any drug, you soon need bigger and bigger and bigger hits to get the same thrill.

"It isn't long before just getting a smile or a reaction out of the waitress or the co-worker isn't enough.

"To get the same zing, you have start spending more and more time with that cute co-worker.

"You have to start going to breaks with them.

"You have to start putting them in your car and driving them off-site for lunch.

"You have to start taking them with you on your business trips

"You have to start taking them to dinner

"And to shows

"And sightseeing

"And to bars

"And drinking with them

"And you have to walk back with them to their hotel because it would be rude if you didn't

"And you have to start lying about all this every single day to your spouse or your significant other so they won't find out and interfere with you getting your harmless fun zings

"And you get to find out what all that lying and unaccounted time does to your spouse's ability to trust you

"And you get to find out what happens to a marriage when you have destroyed your spouse's trust with lies."

The place was dead quiet. The three high-school girls were sitting on the edge of their chairs and their eyes were huge.

"Well, I really didn't mean to bring the panel down like this. I just want to point out that there is a MASSIVE difference between being friendly and courteous to someone and and being a flirt - and that if you don't understand the difference, you *will* destroy good relationships."

At this point the high school girls jumped up and said, "Yeah, we know what you mean! The guys at school are awful! They are all over us all the time! They DON'T know how to just be friendly or nice! They gotta flirt and push all the time and if we don't do it back they get mean and call us - uh, nasty names!"

I gave them one word: "Boundaries."

"Boundaries define the difference between flirting (sexual) and being friendly (normal)."

"Boundaries."

They all looked very happy and the mom of one of them found me later and thanked me for talking to the girls at the panel the way I had.

Just for the record, I worked as a waitress for a while in an airport coffee shop in San Antonio. I did not mind talking to men who were friendly and courteous, but most of them weren't.

They just wanted to flirt.

Remember, I was young and cute then, and 99% of the men I waited on (most of them wearing wedding rings) would flirt, and flirt, and push and dig for that zing of attention to be returned, and they would get very annoyed and refuse to tip if it wasn't returned.

One of them called me "rude" and "a b*tch" even though the service had been fine. The only problem was I had not returned his flirting.

I hated it. I felt like a wh*re. I wasn't there to serve coffee and food - I was there to provide strange men with zings of attention and flirtation and THAT'S what they were tipping me for.

My husband behaves the same way. How many times have I heard him say, "Oh, well, this one's getting negative tip points" - and it is ALWAYS because she refuses to flirt with him. I have always been sitting right there and seen this countless times.

It might dawn on a man someday that that waitress or check-out girl he's trying so desperately hard to get that "zing" from is almost certainly somebody's girlfriend or somebody's wife

It might dawn on him that MAYBE she's trying not to disrespect her own boyfriend or her own husband by flirting with YOU.

I can tell you, the vast majority of men behave with waitresses and with ANY OTHER WOMAN IN A SERVICE JOB exactly like my husband does.

They behave like it's part of that woman's job to flirt with them and provide them with zings of sexual attention no matter what she's really there for - and if she won't do that, she's a rude b*tch and it's negative tip points for her.

I have been subjected to this many, many, many times by married men and I ALWAYS hated it.

I was happy to be friendly and courteous to men who were also behaving in a friendly and courteous manner AND WHO TREATED ME WITH RESPECT, but I quickly started DESPISING the ones who insisted that I return their flirting - that I give them a nice little sexual zing of attention along with the rest of the service - or they'd refuse to pay.

To me, that's how you treat a wh*re. And I honestly don't think these men have the first clue of how to relate to a woman any other way.

Why is it that places like Hooters and casino bars and even the geisha in Japan are so bloody popular?

Because those women are PAID to flirt with men as part of the service. When men go in there, they can be guaranteed of having their flirting returned and getting those zings of sexual attention that some of these rude frigid b*tches working in restaurants and in other service jobs (like me) just won't provide.

All they have to do is pay for it.

The trouble is, there are plenty of women who WILL respond to flirting because they've learned that it will give them whatever they want

Like tips

Like money

Like attention

Like gifts

Like lunches

Like dinners

Like trips

Like Broadway shows

Like evenings in fancy sushi and sake bars

Like promotions

These women ARE wh*res in ever sense of the word. They care nothing about the husbands or fiances or boyfriends they might have at home - they are absolutely willing to trade flirting, sexual attention, sucking up and often a whole lot more to ANY man who is in a position to give them anything on the list above.

He can be a total stranger or he can be their boss - they do not care as long as they get what they want from that list.

And boy, do they ever get it.

But women like me, if we try to insist on being treated with courtesy and respect at all times, are

frigid
rude
a b*tch
nasty
controlling
need help
need medication
need to find somewhere else to live

And get ignored in favor of the wh*res.

I am happy to treat other men with friendliness, courtesy and respect.

I will NOT flirt with them because I an a married woman and it is NOT part of my job to provide strange men with zings of sexual attention.

So, somebody come in here and defend flirting among married people. Go ahead, make my day!
Mulan

*APPLAUDS*

Holy mackeral, Mulan. That was a very long rant!

I'm glad you spoke up to the younger ladies. It's good to hear other people talk about flirting vs friendliness.

I was bartender/waitress for many years and I hate flirting. Even as a young, single girl I couldn't bring myself to flirt. I like to talk, to be friendly and mostly to be treated with respect from customers.

I ignored the types of guys you are talking about, and still do. I ran into one of those jerks when GB and I were in Nashville not too long ago. And do you know that idiot flirt actually asked me if I had thongs on? I felt like kicking him in the shins, but all I did was turn around and completely ignore him.

That panel you were on sounds very interesting and like a lot of fun, btw.

Great rant Mulan.

My FWH is a very friendly person and woman usually flirt with him with me right there. So it is definitely a two way street kind of thing. There was one woman who's son was on my son's baseball team and i could not believe some of the things that she said to my H with me sitting right there.

stillcrazy,

How do you handle that? Do you just laugh it off? A lady was flirting really obviously with my husband and I actually took her arm and removed it from where she had laid it on his. Then she took a hike, but I was really getting angry, and am kind of ashamed I couldn't have handled it better.

I need your advise?

Mulan....you are my hero for today!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I think that cute young married woman on the panel must have been my ex... Definitely her outlook on flirting...

AGG

The one with the son on my son's ball team happened a couple of years ago and I did not handle it well I must admit.

I would get upset with my H because I felt like he should tell her that what she was saying was inappropriate. I told him that if i said it she would just think I was a jealous wife (which i was of course). I mean she would say things that were really bad. My husband at the time said that she was just being friendly because sometimes her husband was there too. My daughter actually finally said something to her about the fact that something she said was inappropriate and she finally quit after that.

Not too long ago he was talking about it to someone and he said how bad she flirted with him and i said I thought she was just being friendly and he said no it was way more than friendly.

Everyone should follow your lead and start awaking the general populi's inability to recognize how insidious and destrcutive cheating is for everyone involved.

Gdman we need a powerful movie showing the devesation of cheating not romancing the power of destiny and fate of two adulterous lvoers.

Please do not ever be ashamed of being called "jealous" when some stupid b**** is pawing and drooling over your husband.

I do not understand why calling someone "jealous" in this situation is supposed to be a taunt and an insult.

If a burglar walks into your house and starts looking through your belongings, are you "jealous" and "insecure" if you throw him out??

Jealousy is nature's way of telling you that something you value very much is in danger of being lost and you had better step up and protect it.

If that's something to be ashamed of, then please call me "jealous" every day.

If it happens again, just look her right in the eye and say, "You are being extremely rude and disrespectful by touching and flirting with my husband. I expect it to stop right now."

If she protests that she's not flirting, just say, "Yes, you were flirting with him, and I am very offended by your behaviour."

If she keeps arguing or keeps trying to flirt, then it's time for your husband to step up.

If he won't, then just say, "You know, maybe you're right. Maybe he does deserve you and not me after all." Then get your purse and take a taxi home.

I have every intention of doing exactly this if I'm ever in such a situation again, and I kick myself every day for not stepping up and dealing with such rudeness and disrespect a long, long time ago.
Mulan

Mulan,

That was awesome. I could visualize the audience sitting their dumbfounded and then some of them, beginning to "get it".

I would say, just what that mom said to you would make the whole day worth your effort.

AWESOME!!!

Plus if you do this you don't get mad and in a fight with your husband, because it's not really his fault. Mine is so friendly but not at all a flirt.

I was so ticked off with the girl that was flirting with GB, I just couldn't stop myself.

I guess I handled it right. Stilcrazy, when I did that GB wasn't in the least bit angry. I think he thought I was pretty cool for standing up to her. It was upsetting to me, though.

Well when i said that she was being inappropriate my H just said she was being friendly so i am not sure that he would have felt the same way if i said something. Like I said it was not until way later that he admitted that she was flirting with him.

I mean she would be wearing her short shorts and bend over right in front of him and she would say things like "I am going to have to go home and wring out my underwear from sweating so bad". One game she came up behind him and poured cold water down his back and asked him if that felt better. The thing that she said where my 15 year old daughter told her that was enough was a mention of a hooker.

OMG it was all I could do not to just start punching this woman right there on the ball field.

I like your DD!

It's too bad you couldn't have grabbed a long stick when she bent over and shoved it...you know where. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Maybe when she said that about her underwear you could have said "yes, there is an unGodly smell coming from somewhere."

My mom told me one time there was a woman like that and she got her alone and told her "if you don't stop what you are trying to pull, I am going to knock you down these stairs". And that was all it took to stop her.

Wow, I think this statement is a great way of explaining it. Bravo.

I have been reading this post and I am finding it very interesting. I have seen flirting all the time and sometimes you just don't know what to do when you are the one being "flirted" Sometimes I walk away, sometimes I say something. There was one time that sticks in my mind that was over the top. DH, myself, my sister and BIL and a few other people were leaving a football game. I was walking behind our croud with my sister. This guy walking the other way cops a feel of my a$$ when he goes by. He must have thought it would be so quick I would think it was an accident but a cupped hand on your cheek is no accident. I went after him. I asked him what he thought he was doing, would he like it if someone did that to his sister etc. He was speachless and looked like he wanted to crawl in a hole and die. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />
I don't think he will be trying that any time soon! My sister couldn't believe I did that (I am a bit shy) and my husband was po'd at the guy but proud of me for standing up to the guy.

After hearing how some men behave with waitresses and tipping I am glad DH is all about the service when it comes to tips!

"Flirting" is getting an unmet need MET. And if married, that need meeting belongs to your spouse and no one else.

Great post, Mulan. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Nothing wrong with righteous jealousy. Even the Bible says that God is a jealous God!

“You shall not make for yourself an idol, or any likeness of what is in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the water under the earth. You shall not worship them or serve them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God” (Exodus 20:4-5).

Nice rant Mulan and I totally agree.

Mulan,
So I was trying to find the packers/cowboys game tonight and I went on the internet. DH said maybe they are changing over to the nfl channel and he was right. This is a channel the cable stations have to pay extra for and pass on to us. So I am reading an article on line about it (the changeover starts tonight) and this is the end of the article I found ....


And that's where we are. It sucks if you can't get the game, and I'm sorry for that ... but it won't kill you to embrace the sports bar experience for one night. Go out, have some chicken wings, get hammered, flirt with a waitress who finds you repulsive, tip her more than she deserves, and make things up about how you were a long snapper for the Seahawks in the early 80s. It'll be fun.


OMG!!!!!!!!!!! There it is in print! No wonder men think it's ok! Here is the link if allowed. http://sports.aol.com/fanhouse/2007/11/2...-itself-useful/

Mulan:

Very, very cool.

How many people were in the audience at the panel? Because I'm betting the wheel-2rning in some of those heads may someday help one of those people avoid the pain of infidelity - or at the very least help them 2 get grounded earlier if they don't.

I've never, ever "flirted", now that I think about it. Even as a young teenager - when I got the courage up 2 say a word 2 a girl - I was respectful. I always thought I was just shy, because my friends were more brazen. But on the few occasions I tried 2 emulate them, I felt fake and awkward.

I've been 2 Hooters a 2ple of times. The food ain't all that great. Neither was the conversation. And I don't remember seeing that much makeup outside of the cosmetics aisle at Wal Mart.


Or:
(snifs at the air...) "Tide must be out."

-ol' 2long

Please do not ever be ashamed of being called "jealous" when some stupid b**** is pawing and drooling over your husband.

I do not understand why calling someone "jealous" in this situation is supposed to be a taunt and an insult.


Well this is the "renter" in me (which I am working on changing BTW <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />). I wanted my H to "sacrifice" the ego boost he was getting from her by telling her himself. I know now that I should have spoke up in the first place. I never want to go through that again. it was horible.

Me too!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Heres' a little more, for any of you still interested:


I said the word "boundaries" while talking to the high school girls, and they seemed to know instantly what I meant.

That's in marked contrast to my husband's corporate workplace - where I worked, too, for many years - where way too many of those people have NO boundaries at work. And I can tell you that the higher up they are, the worse they are about ignoring boundaries.

They've convinced yourselves that they are all so smart and special and invulnerable that they don't need them. Boundaries are clearly for weak and fearful and old-fashioned people who are afraid of what they might do. (I've actually heard my husband say that.)

And besides, it's just soooo much more fun to live without boundaries when you've got flirty little hotties for co-workers!

So, instead of relating to each other AND TO EVERYONE'S SPOUSES with the RESPECT that healthy boundaries would provide, they all insist on dancing on the edge of the cliff with their endless flirting, their private off-site lunches, their dinners, shows, outings, bars, alcohol and hotel rooms and their HARD-CORE INSISTENCE on keeping their spouses OUT.

And then they can't understand the torment their spouses go through by being forced to watch all that cliff-dancing and being powerless to stop it - unless we get a divorce.

My husband has sometimes sneered at me about being "righteous, superior and judgmental" because I do not flirt with and pursue other men.

Which only tells me that he doesn't get it and never did, because I will readily admit that I am just as vulnerable to cheating as anyone else. We are all hardwired to be open to attractive people and I am no different. That's not "fear" talking; that is merely RESPECT for the very human creature that I am.

That's why I have had good boundaries in place ever since the college days. I was a pre-vet major at both Southwest Texas State University and Texas A&M University in the early 1970s, and I was often the only female among a whole class full of men - cowboys, at that!

But I had NO PROBLEM AT ALL getting along with all those men. They treated me with courtesy and respect and because I did not flirt with them, they did not flirt with me OR disrespect me.

And on the other hand, I dated one of them once, so it's not like I wore a burqa and never talked to any of them.

It's just that I learned very quickly that there is a huge, huge difference between "being friendly and courteous" and "flirting".

My husband and his co-workers clearly never learned this OR they simply do not care.

The world is full of male "honeys" too - and they're even more readily available for sex and dating than women are for lonely men. And I am so starving and angry and neglected and lonely, and have been for such a long time, that I'm well aware I am real, real, vulnerable to such things.

I'm just sorry that my husband and his coworkers have no understanding of this, and indeed don't WANT to understand it, and so continue to dance on the edge of that slippery cliff at every opportunity.

But gee, they all insist it's purely bad luck that so many of these wonderful, wonderful people have insane spouses and marriages in the toilet.

Just bad luck.

The moral of the story is, "Learn the difference between being friendly and being a flirt. You ignore the difference at your peril. It will cost you the respect of people who are forced to deal with you, it will only attract sluts and trash, and it could well cost you your marriage and family and maybe even your career."



Love dat!
Mulan

I am very similar to you Mulan. I am a friendly person and speak to everyone but I have never been a "flirty" person (except with my H of course <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />). I have set high personal "boundaries" for myself in every R I have been in. You just should not "flirt" with members of the opposite sex when you are married PERIOD.

It amazes me to see how many people in the workplace who are exactly as you are saying above (both male and female). They just don't get it.

People like that would not last in my company, and I work for the third largest employer in the world. We must be a really boring business if this is how the rest of the work world acts. Yunk! And in the branch office I run, this type of employee would never make it through their three month trial period.

I'm very proud of the company I work for because of the way it is so family oriented and treats all people with respect. We even have training on how to treat, respect and relate to peoples of other cultures, ecconomic, racial, gender, etc.

I admire the great people of the world who are of an intelligence that they would rather share ideas, dreams, hope, aspirations than flirt sexually like people who got stuck in the phallic stage or suffered some other misfortune or lack, so that they missed intellectual and personality development.

LOL, that's my rant! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

You know I think it must have a lot to do the people at the top of a company on what is accepted and fostered as far as inter-company relations.

The heads of our company are based in a foreign country and are of a spiritual, development mindset. I even had the pleasure of working with the VP of the U.S. division and he is about the most respectful, spiritual person I have met.

Must have a lot to do with the company mentality. Everything trickles downhill, good or bad, I suppose.

You know I think it must have a lot to do the people at the top of a company on what is accepted and fostered as far as inter-company relations.

EXACTLY...the culture of the company comes from the top. If they foster an environment where flirting and inappropriate contact is the norm...that is exactly what will happen.

It is quixotic, at best, to think that people at the bottom of the organizational chart are the ones that can change the corporate culture within that organization.

People need to work where their own personal values are mirrored within that organization. If the company's values don't match your own...well, it's time to move on.

We all have the power to remove ourselves.

committed

Glad you brought up this topic.

I think one of the reasons my WW won't agree to be transparent (aside from the obvious), is that she has consistently worked in an environment where flirting, etc. is ok'd. She doesn't want to have to explain to me why this co-worker e-mailed this or that inappropriate thing. Afraid that I will take it "out of context" or make a "big deal out of nothing". Flirting is not nothing.


Maybe. But I really think people get it. They just don't want to admit they get it and they are still doing it.

Mulan,

You know of course that you and I share so many of the same struggles. I occasionally even stay away from your posts because I empathize so deeply and all my buttons get pushed.

"Flirting is always sexual"

Wow....You bet it is. What a powerful and absolutely true statement! And your litmus test (when was the last time you flirted with your family) is pure genius. Would you mind if I "borrowed" this?

hey star*fish,

Thanks so much for the kind words. Please feel free to use anything useful I may have come up with. I think your letter was brilliant and I may well steal it to use in the future - I could have written every word myself and it's exactly how I feel, too.

Too bad his company would never have the cojones to print it in the company newsletter (which H has tried to convince me they don't have anymore, entirely forgetting that I worked at the damn place for eight years and there's no way they'd ever drop their big social pat-ourselves-on-the-back newsletter. They just put it on-line so spouses have no chance of seeing it.)

I liked Shirley Glass's book very much, too.

Whenever news stories come out about people like the Red Cross CEO who lost his job, I always want to comment that it's not "gay marriage" that's a threat to family values - it's crap like workplace flirtation and dating and more that is fueling domestic violence and causing huge numbers of divorces.

I would love to see even one of these dozens of Presidential candidates come out as anti-cheating as a way to prevent divorce and domestic violence.

And maybe it will rain butterflies and unicorns out here in the desert tomorrow, too!

(I live in AZ now, not Texas, but hey I am still so happy that Texas A&M beat tu last week!)

I still post here in the hope of helping somebody else. I'm glad when I can. Thanks again.
Mulan

Mulan thanx so much for starting this thread!

We have an adultery/divorce epidemic going on in our culture right now and a major contributing factor is that so many of the activities that lead to adultery are considered OK to do.

I remember seeing a list somewhere online with 30-some thigns that can lead to adultery. MOST of the items on the list are considered 'safe' by most folks; in fact at first I didn't see the harm in some of the things listed. Almost everything on the list would get you the 'jealous' label if you objected to it.

I am seriously considering offering workplace workshops to companies to help them reduce sexual harrassment AND coworker adultery problems. If I do this project I will invite the spouses of the employees to attend too. Of course, the key selling factor to the comapnies will be to reduce the risk of sexual harrassment lawsuits and to increase employee productivity and professionalism... I of course will be infusing the project with my own anti-adultery agenda.

This topic is very interesting to me.
I will be back LOL

The sexual harassment part is good, of course, but the truth is that sexual harassment is only defined as UNwanted attention. It's pretty darn hard to prove when the participants have obviously been extremely enthusiastic and willing about all of the attention and activities.

But you could add something about, "Prevention of lost time and absenteeism due to upset and dysfunction in the employee's marriage, and due to the expense and trauma of divorce - to say nothing of the terrible emotional, physical and monetary cost of domestic violence. All of these things have a strong correlation to infidelity." (ask any cop or divorce lawyer)

You mentioned professionalism, and you could ask these employers if they have any idea of how much their phone lines, computers and email systems are being used every day not for working, but for flirting and hooking up.

Ask them how much is really being spent on unnecessary trips - or on bringing along an unnecessary associate -- so that a couple of co-workers can have a few days in a fine city enjoying the best hotels, bars, restaurants, shopping and shows WITH each other and WITHOUT their spouses.

I think this workshop would be a fantastic idea and is desperately needed. Anyone who doesn't think so should read this board for a while - we've got traumatized people here from all over the world and from all walks of life, and many of them have no one else to talk to who will take them seriously.

If you get this workshop ready to go, I will send you the name and address of my husband's very large American corporation and you can offer it to them.

I'm sure the silence you receive in return will be deafening.

I honestly believe these people would not have the first clue of how to manage their company culture if flirting and dating and hooking up between married employees in the workplace and on trips was suddenly being discouraged.

The damn place would have to go out of business, and I'm not kidding.

Let me know!
Mulan

Hi Mulan,

"The sexual harassment part is good, of course, but the truth is that sexual harassment is only defined as UNwanted attention. It's pretty darn hard to prove when the participants have obviously been extremely enthusiastic and willing about all of the attention and activities."

You're right... most ofthe time the participants in ofice flirting make it obvious they enjoy the attnetion instead of objecting to it. My observation has been that in the rare cases that somebody objects to that sort of attention, most of the employees and bosses will side with the flirter and just think of the person complaining as a troublemaker or prude. But since there have been some successful sexual harrassment cases companies feel pressured to warn their employees and have policies against the same sort of things that constitute flirting. The bosses at one of my jobs had to all go to a workshop recently about inappropirate behavior in the workplace that could be interpreted as sexual harrassment. Hopefully such workshops will reduce the inappropriate behaviors some. And even when the participants are willing it can still be objected to by fellow coworkers on the basis of fear of favoritism?

You are so right about this. At my H's company, anyone who did this would be labeled NOT A TEAM PLAYER (and at that place, there's nothing worse and somebody who's NOT A TEAM PLAYER.
Mulan

A most EXCELLENT point Mulan!:

"But you could add something about, "Prevention of lost time and absenteeism due to upset and dysfunction in the employee's marriage, and due to the expense and trauma of divorce - to say nothing of the terrible emotional, physical and monetary cost of domestic violence. All of these things have a strong correlation to infidelity." (ask any cop or divorce lawyer)"

A most EXCELLENT point Mulan!:

"But you could add something about, "Prevention of lost time and absenteeism due to upset and dysfunction in the employee's marriage, and due to the expense and trauma of divorce - to say nothing of the terrible emotional, physical and monetary cost of domestic violence. All of these things have a strong correlation to infidelity." (ask any cop or divorce lawyer)"

But unfortunately these days too many people just assume ANY problems esulting from adultery and divorce are caused by the BS 'not handling it right'...

There's the expectation that adulteyr and divorce are OK and that the adulterers are to be shielded from any negative consequences.