Sorry that this is so long.

My D-day was 4/18/08. I have been lurking for the past few weeks hoping to find something to help me get through this, but so far it just seems to be getting worse. I am hoping that someone can help me with all of this.

My wife and I have been married for 21 years w/ 3 children, D19, S16, and D12. Our marriage hasn’t been perfect, but nothing that seemed all that bad. I had been suspicious of her for 2-3 months, but I couldn’t really make myself believe that there was really someone else and she vehemently denied that she was seeing someone else when I asked.

On d-day, I was going back to the office from a meeting across town and decided to stop by a rental house that we are renovating between tenants to see if the flooring contractor had finished installing the new carpet. When I got there, my wife’s car was parked in the driveway. I thought that was strange because she was supposed to be spending the day with her mother who lives about 2 hours away. So, being more than a little suspicious, I decided to sneak around back and see what was going on. When I peaked through the window of the back door I saw my wife and her boss going at it on a blanket in the floor. After the initial shock wore off, I just lost it. I unlocked the door and rushed in screaming profanities and threats while they scrambled to cover themselves in the blanket.

Without thinking, I grabbed all of their clothes off of the floor and tossed them into the front yard. It was all too much to process, so I got in my car and just left to ride around and get myself together before I did something that I may regret. I was so mad that I wanted them both to pay for what they were doing. So, I got his home number from information and called his wife, When she answered, I told her who I was and asked if she knew where her husband was. When she said work, I told her “he’s not at work, I just saw him fxxcking my wife” and hung up. I then called their company and told the HR director what I had just seen. I know now that you should expose to stop the affair not to punish your spouse, but at the time I just wanted them to both hurt as much as I was.

Since then, they were both fired from their jobs and she says that she will never forgive me for ruining her career and embarrassing her like I did. I have ordered and read SAA and I know that I need to try and Plan A her if I want any chance at saving our marriage, but I just don’t want to meet her needs right now. I keep going from wanting to try and work things out to just wanting to throw her out. She will not go to counseling. She won’t fill out the ENQ. She just wants to sit around the house and feel sorry for herself. She refuses to send a NC letter, but as far as I can tell, there has been NC since d-day because OM is ignoring her. Apparently he was just having a little fun and she thought she had found the love of her life.

I do still love her and I don’t want to just throw away 21 years together. But, I really don’t feel like doing all the work when I feel like she should be the one doing the work. How long does it typically take a BS to get over the initial shock of what’s happening and resolve to do the work necessary to save the marriage? It’s been 4 weeks and I still change my mind from one day to the other.

Welcome, and sorry you had to come here.

It must have been a horrible shock, but you maintained and didn't do anything more drastic than throwing their clothes out in the yard, which I (as a BS) think was a rather appropriate touch.

It takes a long time to start feeling normal again, often two or three years. It will help when your wife gets on board and starts participating in recovery. If there is no contact between them, withdrawal will soon be over.

And refuse to take the blame for them losing their jobs. It was not your telling, but the actions that they chose, that did it.

Thanks, Believer.

I know that it was their fault, but I was really wondering if I had done the right thing. I am afraid that she nay not get over the fallout from my exposure.

She has been very cold since d-day and her attitude has not helped me want to do the work. I guess maybe I should just take action and try to Plan A her and maybe I will eventually feel like doing it.

Welcome to MB. Sorry you need to be here. I just wanted to reassure you that *you* did not "ruin her career or embarrass her" she did that all by herself. Do not accept blame for her bad choices. Now, if you want to save your marriage whether you "feel" like it or not, you must begin a good plan A. Please get very familiar with the site concepts and start reading the notable posts thread in this forum.

BTW, I applaude your decision to throw their clothes on the lawn!

It's the lies that really hurt, isn't it?



You should make it absolutely clear - is was her AFFAIR that let to both of them being fired from their jobs. It's her AFFAIR that led to her embarrassment. Don't you take on any responsibility for that.



Yep, I know that feeling .



I don't think there's any "typical time". I'm three years out and still every now and then (but a lot less often than before), I feel like just walking out and never looking back. All I tell you is that for now your FWW is likely going through deep withdrawal and during this time you should be trying to do the best Plan A that you can (just bear in mind that Plan A is NOT Plan Appeasement).

I'd say they got off very easy....

Runner,

So sorry to hear about the Dday, but if you have to be somewhere, here at MB is the best place to be.

4 weeks is still a very short time to comprehend and absorb all that has just happened. That gapping, steaming wound in your chest from which your WW tore your beating heart out is still very fresh and tender. Try to

IF you want to reconcile and try to rebuild the M, you must read up on PLAN A and lay off of the LBs.

Your WW right now is probably feeling lower than whale barf on the bottom of the ocean. She has no job, no more friends at work or elsewhere, no future that she can see, no life with you, no good mother to her kids, etc, etc. She is going through withdrawal, fog-babble, total embarrassment, and mourning the loss of the rest of her life....all for one impetuous couple weeks.

"she will never forgive me for ruining her career and embarrassing her like I did."

Yeah right, and did you tell her that SHE is the one that did it and not you??

There is/was another fella here who walked in on the adulterous action and he said that site is burned into the retinas of his eyes for the rest of his life.

Of course, the rest of us BS's have burned our own images into our imaginations. AND I think most of us, in a way, envy you because we wish we could have done as you did. I DO NOT BLAME YOU FOR ONE ACTION YOU DID.

Just wish you would have taken the clothes WITH you!! in the car.

Stay strong. Anti-dprssnts might be an option, if not for you, then maybe for her.

IMHO

kirk

Runnerboy,

I can relate to how you are feeling. I am a BS as well. I give you kudos for not putting up with your WW's adultery. So many other BH's are afraid of their WW and won't do anything because they are afraid they will lose their WW (as if they aren't already lost).

Now, here comes the 2x4. It seems obvious to me that you aren't divorcing her. So, you can just sit around and be mad at her and have your marriage not improve or get worse.........OR.........you can actually do something constructive to help rebuild your marriage. I know that you have about 0 incentive to work on the marriage right now, but I wouldn't hold your breath waiting for her to work on it. Besides, isn't it incentive enough to work on your marriage so that you can keep the family together, not pay thousands of dollars in lawyers' fees, not lose half your assets and income as well as access to your childrens lives, and not find some other OM screwing your WW. Now, the phrase is, "if you want something done, you've got to do it yourself." The same goes here.

You may have thought your marriage was good, but obviously your WW wasn't as happy. Why? What ENs were you not meeting of hers. What LBs were you committing? I'm sure that before her affair, she was upset with you for not caring about her needs enough, and instead of bring it up with you, she went to get her needs met elsewhere. If you want your needs to be met, you have to make sure to meet hers. Read up on SAA and HNHN. Learn to be a better husband.

As for the exposure, she'll get over it. All WS's do eventually. She's rather blame you than accept the responsibility for her actions. If you meet her needs and get her to fall in love with you again, she'll admit that it was her actions that got her in trouble not yours. But first she needs to get through withdrawal. It will probably take a couple months for her to get over OM. All the while you need to TRY and meet her ENs. Once she is over OM, she'll allow you to meet her needs again. She will then be apologetic for her actions. You just need to change first and lead the way to a better marriage. Trust me, it can be done.

Runnerboy65,

Apparently we are two of the lucky few who got to catch them red-handed.

It's been 2 years since my d-day. My FWW had no feelings for OM. There was no fog, no pining for OM, and she's been remorseful from day 1.

Even with all that, I struggle mightily. Read some of my posts and you'll see.

You can talk to me if you want...we're a rare breed even amongst BH's.

Runnerboy, sorry you are here. But be assured that you did not "ruin" her career. Her career was ruined by her adultery. Your W and her sleazy boss made a stupid choice that left their company legally liable. Most companies don't choose to employ liars and cheaters and that is their right. It is not YOUR FAULT they committed adultery so stop taking the blame for something you DIDN'T DO. You did everything EXACTLY RIGHT.

If I were you, I would take some time to calm down to decide if you want to remain in the marriage. You don't feel like working on it now, I don't blame you one bit. I would sit back, take your time and make a careful decision. In the meantime, don't burn any bridges in case you decide you want to come back.

Welcome to MB.

Bravo RB!!!!

Regardless if you were running on emotion, your "action plan" for exposure was brilliant.

Your feelings are so normal and you are joined by so many. (sad to say)

Just go with the flow and try to slow down and take time for yourself in absorbing what you read in the book and what you gather from the site. No need to be hasty now, you have done all the hard work. Many of us suffer for a very long time about how to expose, when to expose, blah blah blah


Good job!

That is not an accurate statment. It should read:

I am afraid that she nay not get over the fallout from her adultery with a married man from work.

p.s. are you ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN that contact has ended? Are you spying on her? Checking her phone bills, computer, etc? If she was so enamored with him, I find it hard to believe she gave up this quickly.

Have you spoken to the OMW since D-Day to find out what she is seeing on her end?

Oh yeah, Krazy71 is the "other fella".

Sorry, Krazy.

Runnerboy. . .

It is called blame shifting and that is what teenagers do. It is also what older humans do who have not decided that they ought to own their own stuff. In other words, they ain't grown ups yet.

As information, my wife was the same way until she had to face her infidelity, which was what caused her to become a grown up. Glad she found adulthood, hate the price I paid.

She is lucky she wasn't married to someone who carried around a gun. Bullet holes are hard to fix.

If I had to guess and I am gonna guess, I suspect she is not only dealing with her cheating heart, she is also dealing with the thought she was just a piece of meat to her boss. In a vain attempt to restore some shred of dignity and self respect, she is blaming you. Of course that isn't gonna do one tiny little bit of good in that direction.

Her only path to self respect is to own her own stuff and admit she allowed herself to be used as a receptacle because she failed to protect her weaknesses. From there, she can become a grownup, if she wants to.

larry

I'm so sorry, Runnerboy. Do your children have any idea what is going on?

Thanks to all of you who have responded. I am actually a little overwhelmed by how many have responded in so short a time. I wish I had time to respond to each post, but today is a very busy day so I’ll try to just respond to all of them in one post.

First, there is some comfort in knowing that there are others who have been in my shoes and have come through okay. I do want to recover my marriage, but I also know that I will be okay if that doesn’t happen. After reading many of the responses from yesterday, I finally resolved to do everything in my power to improve myself as a husband and to rebuild my marriage. If it fails, I want to know that it was not because I didn’t give it every chance to recover.

She won’t do the ENQ, but I’m pretty sure her top two are admiration and conversation. I think I’ve done a pretty good job over the past few weeks of meeting those when she will let me. My biggest problem is the LB’s. Something will trigger me and I’ll flash back to d-day and all the anger just spews out. I know I need to really work on that. I am trying to find a better way to express the incredible hurt I feel instead of with angry outburst.

As to the children, they all know about what was going on. The younger 2 unfortunately overheard us arguing. I know it’s not the best way for them to find out, but at least they know. I have gone back to each of them and tried to explain to them that both of us love them and that none of this is there fault and that no matter what happens that both of us will always love them. They are both still really angry with her, but I am trying to step in when they act disrespectful to her. As for the oldest, she just returned from college last week, but I drove up to her campus a few weeks ago and filled her in. She was hurt, but she has probably handled it better then any of us. In fact, she has been a great calming influence in the house since she got home.

We are leaving early this afternoon to go out of town for DS16’s baseball tournament. I am hoping it will be a good distraction and it will give us a little time alone before and after the games because he stays in a room with his teammates. I am just going to keep trying to meet her EN’s and bite my tongue and find a way to walk away when the anger hits.

Krazy, I can totally relate to your threads. I’m sure infidelity is devastating to all involved, but there’s really no way to put into words what it feels like to have the image of them together burned into your brain to trigger you constantly.

Finally, as to NC. I have been checking both the cell phone bills and her email accounts and since the first week I haven’t found any contact. All of the calls that first week were from her to him and only lasted less than a minute. I talked to OMW last week and she confirmed the calls that first week, but said that they were all just messages because OM never answered the phone. Apparently there was no emotion involved for him, because she said he has not exhibited any signs of withdrawal. Apparently he’s too busy begging her to not kick him out and promising that it will never happen again. Not likely since this is apparently not the first time for him. One of WW coworkers stopped by a couple of weeks ago to check on her and I overheard her telling WW too just let him go because he had done this same thing with at least 3 other women in their firm over the past 5 years. I really think this hit WW hard. She has been really depressed since that visit. She is supposed to go to her Dr today to talk about maybe getting on an antidepressant. Hopefully that will help improve her attitude which will then make it easier for me to avoid LB’s

Great job exposing. Have you talked about the affair with you WW?
Is WW willing to answer questions about the affair.

Be careful to check that NC is being maintained.

WW is going through withdrawal for the OM now. Withdrawal can go on for six months. Until withdrawal is done WW will act very cold. WW will avoid talk or meeting any of your needs.

If WW does talk it will be to blame you. WW is hurting because the OM threw WW under the bus to save himself and his own marriage instead of running off with her.
WW has to process that she was nothing but a F buddy to the OM.

Until WW comes to terms with her pain she will not be able to see the pain she has caused you.

You should also expose to WW's parents. Then have her get tested for STD's.

Runnerboy,

I think you have handled this whole situation admirably. With the tone of your last post and the fact that OM wants nothing to do with your WW, I think you will be pleasantly surprised at how well things turn out in a year or two if you stick to the plan. A lot of times this kind of thing is a wake-up call for the marriage and it catalyzes some real positive change. For others it spells the end of their marriage. Be very thankful that your WW's affair ended when you found out about it. For so many of us, we had to endure the affair continuing right in front of our face. Read up on MB, stick with the plan, and keep us posted.

Thanks for the encouragement.

I have on emore question.

I’m unsure of what this means, but thought someone here may have some insight.

She calls me at work this morning and suggests “why don’t I just stay home this weekend with the girls and you can go to the baseball tournament alone.” When I asked her why she responded “ I know how much you enjoy these things and I don’t want to be a wet blanket for the whole weekend.”

I assured her that I really did want her to go and that my weekend would be much better if she went. I told her that the girls would be fine at home by themselves ( my 19y/o is great at staying with her little sister ) and was finally able to talk her into going.

Now I think she is just trying to avoid the other parents for fear that they know all about what happened. I haven’t told any of the other parents, but I can’t be sure that DS16 hasn’t told some of the other kids. She still refuses to go to church with me and the kids because she “just doesn’t feel like going.” But I know that she is really worried that I have told everyone about how horrible she is. In fact, other than going to lunch with her best friend a couple of times a week, she has rarely left the house since she was fired shortly after d-day.

The thought also ran through my head that she may be planning to try and meet or talk to OM. With all the lies, I sometimes think I overanalyze her motives with everything she does these days, but I refuse to be fooled again.

You sure can't force her, but I agree that you should be concerned about leaving her there alone. She would feel much better if she just faced these people and it would give you some much needed together time.

This is a perfectly normal assumption on your part. Try to convince her to go along. If she objects too much, you may have a red flag up.

Do not trust blindly that the POS OM is finished with this.

By the way, you have done a great job given the circumstances.

You cannot overanalyze enough with an untrustworthy person. Your wife is the equivalent of a chronic alcoholic who has not had a drink in 6 days so you are WISE to scrutinize everything.

If she does end up staying home, I would suggest calling the OMW and alerting her and perhaps even putting a GPS on her car. [or better yet, hiring a PI]

RB! I just read your thread. Your instincts served you well on the exposure even if it was for the wrong reasons. You are getting some great advice here from people of who have shared your experience and seen hundreds of similar situations.

So far the only mistake you made was throwing the clothes out the window. -You should have taken them with you

You are doing great, your strength is apparent and will serve you well. The other side of that coin is probably the angry outbursts. But you are aware of the importance of controlling them now and are far better placed to succeed because of that knowledge. Keep educating yourself and be patient.

You should also try and maintain contact with OM’s wife for a while if you can. I keep on contact with my FWW’s OM’s GF and this is a vital resource for me. If I have any doubt about where my WW is I shoot the OM’s GF an email asking where OM was between hour X and Y. She does the same and its been a great system.

I also wanted to express my admiration for your brilliant reponse and handling of the "stick" of Plan A. You have done everything right so far. The vets here will give you great advise on how to proceed. There is hope and you have done NOTHING wrong!!! I also agree with bettororworse that you maintain contact with OMW for a while. Although it seems your WW's A is over, WS's are notorious for lying and sneaking around so it would be unwise to let slide any good sources of information too soon. Good luck and I'm very sorry this had to happen to you.

Thanks to everyone again for all of your support and encouragement. For the first time in my life, I'm in a situation where I just feel so out of control.

Well, she just called to let me know that she had the car packed and we are ready to go whenever I get home. So everyone wish me well this weekend. We’ll have 2 hours alone in the car and more time spent together alone over the weekend than in the entire 4 weeks since d-day.

My plan is to have a pleasant weekend and just try to engage her in small talk and avoid relationship talk as much as possible. I still have a lot of questions, but I don’t think this is the time to try to pull answers out of her. Besides, I usually get angry when we talk about her affair because I seem to only get partial truths. I have to ask the same question 3-4 times before I get the whole truth. I am about ready to resort to waterboarding! But, I’ll leave that for another time and just try to make some LB deposits this weekend.

I’m leaving my laptop at home, so I won’t be able to post over the weekend. But, one of her big issues with me is that I always put my work ahead of her so I’m leaving the work and laptop at home to give her my undivided attention.

This weekend.......avoid it totally. There is time for that.

Have a great weekend. NO LOVEBUSTERS!!!

Great idea, RB. You two need this time together. Good luck this weekend!

Great idea to not discuss the affair or recovery this weekend. Just enjoy each other.

I would of been so uncomfortable to leave WW home at this time if I was you. WW could be embarrassed or up to no good. No way to tell which way.

It was a good sign to of called you that she was ready to take the trip when you get home.

Based on that statement, you need to get some personal counseling and do some reading on the concept of self respect.

A person with healthy self respect should act exactly like you did....outraged by the despicable actions of your WW. However when in your later post you make that statement above, questions arise as to your capacity to show your spouse that you accept ABSOLUTELY NO culpability in her floor rutting actions and your subsequent ego-HEALTHY and ego-APPROPRIATE reaction.

The inability or unwillingness to demonstrate to WS's that a healthy love ALWAYS has boundaries, self respect and a healthy ego, dooms a lot of marriages that come to these MB forums.

Best of luck.

Please allow me to be the poster guy for Cymanca's statement. I waffled for a month before I got my legs under me, hoisted them up and created a ruckus. I should explain that it is not my nature to be passive. I had a couple of reasons for allowing her to partially eat cake while I was on the floor pretending to be a doormat.

Anyway, one night I had had enough and simply and calmly gave her an ultimatum. I thought she would bail. She didn't. Instead, she said she would terminate the affair, establish no contact for life and do her best to restore our relationship. It took her four days to really do it instead of saying she had and from that point in time, she never looked back.

Haven't had a problem since except the usual rocky road to recovery.

Please read Cy's post carefully and digest every word. Best advice you can get.

Larry

Update

Before we left for the weekend, I called OMW just to check up and see if maybe there had been something up between OM and WW for the weekend. Apparently, it was just me being paranoid since they were catching a flight Friday evening to go house hunting because OM has a job offer about 1000 miles from here. I definitely take this as good news.

The weekend started a little rough as WW was very quiet the for the entire 2 hour drive. Conversation was difficult since I was the only one attempting to engage. But, things got better after the 1st game on Friday evening and it actually turned out to be a pleasant weekend. I actually think I made a lot of deposits in the love bank by engaging her at every opportunity in small talk and I actually found a couple of opportunities to compliment her both when we were alone and during conversations with other parents over diner on Saturday. There were only a few times where she said or did something that ticked me off, but I was able to just bite my tongue and get past all of them without an angry outburst.

As we were leaving to come home DS16 asked if he could ride with one of his fiends and I readily agreed since it would give us a little more time alone before we arrived home and had to deal with all of the responsibilities of normal life. Soon after we left, I reached over and held her hand and told her that I had really enjoyed our weekend together and that we needed to find time to get away without the kids more often. She agreed and said that she really did have a good time this weekend.

About an hour into the ride, I noticed that she had gotten really quiet again. I thought she may be asleep, but when I glanced over at her, I noticed that she looked like she had tears in her eyes. I asked her if she was okay and she nodded yes. She sat there quietly for a few more minutes and she said “ I’m so sorry for screwing things up so bad. You do know that I never meant to hurt you like this.”

I thought I might be seeing a glimmer of light, but as she kept talking she somehow went from how sorry she was to blaming me for her affair. “If I had treated her like I did this weekend, she never would have cheated.” I could feel my blood pressure rising but somehow I bit my tongue again until I could get my emotions under control. I let her finish and then very calmly told her, “I’m sorry for putting work and the kids ahead of you and neglecting your needs for so many years, but I refuse to take responsibility for your affair. You are the one who chose to disrespect me and betray our marriage vows by starting a relationship and having sex with your boss. I take my share of the responsibility for the condition of our marriage, but you are the one that has to own the choices you made.” She just sat there and avoided me for the rest of the ride.

The weekend started rough, was good in the middle, and ended on a somewhat sour note. But, I’m not giving up hope. I think she is showing glimpses of her old self. I just have to make myself put my emotions aside and continue with Plan A even though I really don’t want to all the time. What I really want is for her to start putting in some effort and quit feeling sorry for herself. If anyone has a right to feel sorry for themselves, it’s me. I’ve got a counseling appointment with my Pastor tomorrow and we both have an appointment with him for Thursday. I’ve seen him a few times in the past few weeks and I think he is really helping me put everything into perspective and improve myself. His approach to healing marriages is also very much in line with the principles taught by Dr Harley.

Congrats on the decent weekend!

Although it wasn't perfect, there will likely be times when you wish things were that good.

As for waywards, they always try to at least partially blame their atrocious behavior on the BS. My FWW tried that, and I gave her the same response you did, almost word-for-word.

BOY they hate it when you shove flawless logic in their face. It really bothers them to have to own their own crappy behavior.

It sounds like you handled things well...FAR better than I would have that soon after d-day.

Good luck to you.

It may have seemed like a sour note at the time. I do not agree that it was because it was really a "Moment of truth." She was treated by her boss as a piece of meat. In terms of self worth, that is hard for her to swallow. In the real world, truth hurts and processing that truth takes someone who loves you enough to point out the truth no matter what.

Unless she is self delusional to the max, she MUST see the difference between you, the man who sees her worth as a person and her boss, who obviously saw her as a collection of holes. I don't see how you could have made that stark difference more obvious or more appealing.

Just for the record, I drew a similar contrast for my wife after her affair. It took about six months for her to see the light and she was NOT a happy camper. In your situation, it should have been painfully obvious within a few days.

Larry

I have friend who is a counselor and he pretty much said exactly that same thing. He thinks that she was jolted back to reality pretty quickly because of the way OM treated her post discovery. But, that she has been reluctant to really push ahead with recovery because of my anger. He thinks, that if I can make her feel safe talking to me that she will eventually committ to the marriage.

I have to admit that the first week, I was a mess and I called her a lot of names and would just go off on her at the least provocation. I'm trying to keep that under control, but I refuse to take the blame for what she did. Maybe, at this point it helps her rationalize it if she can blame me for pushing her away.

If she only gets that type of treatment in the first week, she's very lucky. I have issues with containing my anger after nearly 2 years.

I was pretty full of AO and LBs the first month or so after D-Day. I have conflicting opinions about it. On the one hand, I recognize that those are not productive ways to deal with one's anger, frustration, and pain. On the other hand, I question whether it is really possible to deal with that level of emotion productively. Sometimes, I think that you just have to get that stuff OUT, and that stuff is ugly.

Don't beat yourself up too badly for it. Recognize it for what it is and apologize, as time passes your emotions and pain will become less intense and easier to manage.

Excellent job not owning your W's stuff. REALITY is not a lovebuster.

Don't get me wrong, I still have anger issues. I am just conrolling them a little better at the moment. I just don't know how long I can keep it up. Sometimes, even when things are good, I will have something trigger me and that picture of the 2 of them on teh floor is all I see. Without some true repentance on her part, I know I can only go on for so long.

It will take quite a long time before you feel good again. That is just the way it is.

Come here and vent when you are angry.

It is perfectly okay to tell her how hurt you are, but not to explode and call her names.

And you don't want to just sweep it all under the rug and pretend it didn't happen.

After going through this nightmare, you need to insist on having a better marriage than before.

Well, I at least got a little good news today. After readign a few of the posts on here a few weeks ago, I got a little scared and went and got tested for STD's. The Dr called today and said everything came back clear.

I haven't asked her to get tested yet, but I will not have SF with her until she is tested. I guess I need to go ahead and have that talk with her tonight. I can only imagine the response I'll get. But, that is just another of the consequesnces to what she has done.

Good job! You are facing things like a man. I'm proud of you. And do ask her to get tested. She will be angry and hurt, but it is essential.

Runnerboy. . .

It is very ok to be angry. It is very ok to be angry with her. It is very ok to vent so long as you draw a distinction between what she did and WHO she is. I often told my wife that to the best of my knowledge, I was the only human being in the universe who loved her for who she is and was, not necessarily for what she did. I told her that I saw her as a flawed human being (just like everyone else) whose worth to me was her total person, warts and all although I didn't appreciate the warts that reflected back on me. Her affair was her maturation event, too bad that I also paid the price but acceptable if in fact she really became a grownup.

Drawing a contrast between your wife as a total human being, your mate and mother of your kids, and what she did when she lost her mind and committed a stark sin might help. I told my wife that she could use what happened to grow up, or allow the dark places inside most of us (except saints) to take her over, and in the later event, I wanted nothing to do with her if she really embraced the dark side. Admit you made a serious mistake and then fix it, say I. To my wife's credit, she has given 100% since then. I have no complaints other than the time it is taking me to totally get over it, if I ever do.

I also told my wife that if we couldn't have a better and safer relationship than before she lost her morals, I didn't want to move forward with anything but divorce. I told her she had to own her own garbage and it was her job to throw it out, not mine to accept. In other words, grow up or move on down the road and inflict her pain on someone else. I gave her once for ignorance, but you can't fix stupid or self centered entitlement and I am not gonna try.

So far you seem to be doing the right things. Being a leader means exactly that; leading. And you are doing that by pointing her in the right direction.

Larry

Runner,

"I could feel my blood pressure rising but somehow I bit my tongue again until I could get my emotions under control."

Yeah, there is mucho tongue biting. Hope you didn't need stitches. Sounds like if we look up Plan A in the dictionary your picture will be there.

The sour note at the end was anything but sour for you. You totally laid out the naked truth for her. Sour for her probably.

Let her vent, bite your tongue, disagree very calmly if you must, and keep up that plan A.

You can see how well that plan A is working by her reaction to it. Also makes you stop and realize how "not like that" you were before.

Also nice the OM is moving far away!

And didn't she show some contrition at the start of her conversation with the tears in her eyes? Things seem to moving forward at a pretty good clip.

That STD talk might be gruesome!!

But, because there were more women than your W involved, maybe that could be the avenue to follow. I got a feeling whatever road you take, it will beat her down lower than she wants to be.

Maybe not say "I WILL NOT HAVE SF WITH YOU UNTIL YOU GET A CLEAN BILL OF HEALTH".

But more like, "Honey, you know he was with more women than you so don't you think a check up would put your/my/our mind(s) at ease?"

But you knew this already, yes?

Very hard to keep the visions out of your head. On way is to wear a rubber band on your wrist and when you mind's eye starts to go there, snap the rubber band!

Stay strong!

kirk

Your post really hit home. I don't hate her, I hate what she did. I think that in my own mind I need to try to draw a line between her as a person and her as an adulterer.

The problem is that I can do that sitting here at my desk, it's a lot harder to do when I'm face-to-face w/ her and all I can see is the 2 of them together and I go back to d-day.

I know it probably just takes time and a lot of work, but I am not a patient kind of guy. But I'm learning patience as this goes on.

I have finally resolved myself to have the STD talk with her tonight. I have put it off long enough. But honestly, it really hasn't been a big issue because since d-day, I have had almost ZERO desire for SF with her bacause just the thought of it brings back the horrible images. That isn't helping me a lot either because SF is one of my top 2 ENs and I can't imagine at this point SF not triggering back to d-day.

"Maybe not say "I WILL NOT HAVE SF WITH YOU UNTIL YOU GET A CLEAN BILL OF HEALTH".

But more like, "Honey, you know he was with more women than you so don't you think a check up would put your/my/our mind(s) at ease?"


Kirk has it exactly right. As a female, the second statement would go over much better with me.

Men usually have a very hard time with reclaiming the SF part. Hopefully some of the guys on Recovery or here can support you.

Krusht:


But not down lower than she needs to be to start rebuilding her life, relationships and self esteem. You can't build a new house using parts of a flawed and faulty old foundation, can you?

Larry

I would certainly encourage you to take the latter approach.

You're in a situation that appears very hopeful. You've had some signs of remorse from your ww, which is good. She appears to be ashamed.

If she ever comes to you with true remorse you'll be somewhere that many of us BHs never get to see.

I think a heart felt apology would be welcome no matter what has happened to your marriage.

Be grateful you have that because you have something to work with.

Now Plan A a bunch!

I might be able to help you with the SF thing. Your posts struck a chord in me and I am glad that what I have had to say to you is likewise.

The TOS of this web site precludes me from saying certain things that may be of help as they would tend to be, er, candid in things sexual. Suffice it to say in an open post that there are certain male attitudes that you can adopt that might help you, starting with the possibility of conception of another kid, if you are both able.

Hokay, lemme see if I can put this into language that will pass the censors here:

Step one is to understand that you probably had her on a pedestal and she should NOT have been there anyway. She is now in broken pieces at the foot of the pedestal upon which she so undeservedly was placed by you.

Step two is to acknowledge that your real problem is that you see her as "Tainted" by another male. She was "used," which places her in another category from "wife and mother and mate."

Step three is to acknowledge that your reality was flawed. She has always had the right to be a human being and you had no real right - no matter how hard wired in your maleness it was - to see her in another light than someone who owns her own body. She has the right to give the use of her body to someone else even if under false pretenses as it was.

Step four is to look at her with new eyes, as a whole person you can have instead of just a set of holes to be used in whatever role you care to place her. The other guy was only interested in the holes, not the whole.

I suggest Conan the Barbarian. It worked for me. And I got the whole, not the hole(s), if that make sense within the context of me using oblique language instead of usual male talk

You are not going to be able to replace the image you have seared into your mind's eye until you can replace that image with new ones you create. It will be difficult, but the whole road of recovery from adultery is difficult.

For me, I got the whole, as I said, and my wife has found things to give me me she didn't know she had to give. I now believe that I have her heart in ways that she was incapable of delivering in the past and certainly not to the supposedly infatuated cretin she betrayed me with.

Larry

PS: I will put this into a convenient location for the censors, who so far haven't hit my posts, but might, ya never know. . .

Er, 50Mg of Viagra will provide the stamina to pull off the Conan deal if that is otherwise unavailable for reasons of age or whatever, or just so you make sure that no images will deter you from your task . . . The goal is to cause her walk funny - while wearing a smile and restoration of some of her self esteem, courtesy of you, which is a two edged sword if you think about it a bit.

Larry,

Your post makes perfect sense to me. I think that somewhere deep down that I understand that for me to get over this I am going to have to change myself and change how I view her and our marriage.

We were not virgins when we met, but for almost 24 years, SF was something that was ours alone. Now, it's like someone has violated a place that was sacred and once it was desecrated, it has lost some of it's value. I know that this has more to do with how I view it than with reality. But, like so many other things that I have learned in the past few weeks, the hard part is getting things from my head to my heart. I am hoping that as the rawness of this wound heals that I will be able to remove some of the emotion from my thoughts and actions and be able to truly heal myself and our marriage.

P.S. At this point another child is out of the question. I had that taken care of 10 years ago and if I ever see OM again I might take care of it for him also.

Hokay, gotta go for the day, but in reply. . .

I can see that you get it. As your wife rebuilds the new person she is going to become, I hope that you are able to see her in that light instead of as damaged goods. I would bet that she sees herself in that same light - damaged goods - to the point of 99% certain.

Romancing her at this point in time might help you both. I took my wife out on dates as we recovered. The looks my wife chose to give me during those times helped me a lot to restore my own self esteem, which is something I am sure is bothering you.

I became her hero. That helped us both.

Larry

Don't have a baby to save the marriage. That's a good saying.

I know EXACTLY how you feel in terms of desecrated ground.

I think you'll feel better after you have SF with you WW, but that is a trigger for others.

I know that having the images in your head of you WW doing things with OM may be a trigger if you are trying SF.

The road is crappy no matter what path you take.

Runnerboy65,

I've had issues with SF...first it was me not being able without thinking about the A, now it's being affected by lingering issues for both of us.

I too will have to be careful about my wording, but one thing I had to do to have SF for some time after d-day was to "have relatively unusual sex with her as though she were a performer in the adult entertainment industry".

Tranlated: F her like a porn star.

I had to attack her like an animal. Of course it wasn't against her will, but I had to use her like an inflatable doll to get through it. She thought she was wild? I was determined to make porn look like PBS. She never knew my thought process, but maybe she "got it" a little. The lovey-dovey, touchy-feely, making love stuff was put on hold entirely for awhile. In my head, she had to earn that.

Any remaining "OM cooties" were snuffed out by extraordinary temperatures caused by elevated friction levels. I did so much to her during hysterical bonding that her mom felt it.

Ok, you get the point.

rb65,

I agree with what Larry is telling you, and just wanted to offer a suggestion that helped us, when we started "dating" right after DDay.

I don't know if this is your type of thing or not, but we found dates to Comedy Clubs GREAT for us. You have all of these feelings bottled up inside ... you feel like you could explode at any moment, ... and your WW likely feels like "road kill" about right now. At the Comedy Club, you don't have to "converse" with each other, you can just exchange "knowing" glances with each other, PLUS you get the added bonus of a good "belly laugh" or two, which will do wonders towards easing some of those hostile feelings you are having. It also gives your WW a chance to laugh a little, and see you hanging with her in a light hearted atmosphere, which you likely haven't experienced since DDay.

Pick the headlining comedian wisely ... stay away from the more vulgar sexual humor for obvious reasons.

Also, if the comedy club went well, then you have a great lead in for a coffee, late dinner or night cap together after the show where you get to actually talk with each other when your both in a good mood.

None of this is EASY, but this is one "shortcut" that helped us out.

PS: I don't think I've posted to you yet, but wanted to say how much I admire your strength and composure. You may not feel strong or composed right now, but other BH's recognize how much "testicular fortitude" it takes to discover their WW's A like you did, put a stop to it, and start rebuilding like you have. You have my full respect, sir.

Krazy mentions something you're likely going to feel once SF resumes.

Probably a normal BH response.

rb65,

Please pay particular attention to Krazy's post to you above. Read it again and again, until you "get" where he's coming from ... I've not seen it explained like he has, but its PRICELESS!!!

It's all about RECLAMATION!!!

I just hope I didn't offend anyone. My W had fun, no doubt about it.

Plus, I always figured if I had been the cheater, I'd be lucky if my BW had to "F me like a porn star". Many men in healthy marriages have tried everything under the sun to get their wives to do just that.

Myrevelation,

I believe the proper spelling is "WRECKLAMATION".

Krazy,

That actually brought a smile to my face and I totally get it. It’s kind of like taking your aggression out in a much more therapeutic way than punching the wall and we both get some level of enjoyment out of it. Besides, when you go at it that hard, the body pulls so much blood to your privates that your brain can’t function at a level capable of memory recall. It could be the happiest 20 seconds I’ve had in a while.

My Rev,
Thanks for the encouragement. The comedy club date is actually a really good idea. We used to go to comedy clubs all the time before the kids came along. I’ll have to look into that for maybe Friday night. If nothing else, it may take our minds off of everything for a few hours.

You should seriously consider punching things as well...hysterical bonding can end at any time, and it seems to happen suddenly. Like hitting a brick wall at 150 mph. You'll have to go from wrecking one bag to wrecking another, so to speak.

Someone (I forget who) on this site suggested buying a heavy bag and a pair of boxing gloves. For quite a bit less than $200, it's well worth the investment.

rb65,

I HIGHLY recommend the comedy club date night. Your WW seems to be starting to see something special in you ... she feels like [censored] about herself and wonders why you are hanging with her.

This will give you the PERFECT opportunity to remind her of what it was that originally attracted her to you and she will leave the club feeling better about herself, simply by "laughing".

We did this "date night" regularly right after DDay, and we ALWAYS BOTH felt better afterwards.

Here's what worked for us ... pick out a favorite restaurant within walking distance of the comedy club (dinner can be before or after depending on your show time) ... order the tickets online and have them waiting at the club. Then on Friday morning as you're leaving for work, SURPRISE her and tell her you're going out tonight, tell her to put on her (your favorite outfit) and be ready by X:00 o'clock ... tell her "I'll take care of the rest. We've had a rough time lately, and I just want to have a "fun & relaxing" evening alone with my W ... we could use it. Will you go out with me on those terms?"

Then, go out and show her how a REAL MAN treats a LADY. She won't see herself that way, but YOU'RE NOT GOING TO TALK ABOUT RELATIONSHIP STUFF ANYWAY. You're just going out to have fun ... and believe me ... YOU BOTH NEED IT.

You've not been around here that long, but you'll find that I'm very pro-BH, pro-boundaries, and pro-having FWW's own their own [censored], but you simply CAN'T do that ALL DAY/ALL THE TIME.

By having her see these glimpses of how GREAT of a guy you really are, it will allow her to accept things like new boundaries going forward that much easier. YOU get to reclaim your rightful position in her life, and SHE gets to see EXACTLY what she nearly threw away.

Wow, what a post by Krazy...Admittedly, that took my breath away for a minute...Then I stepped back and realized that it's likely true...I called Mr. W for confirmation...He is not as abrupt as Krazy in his wording, but we discussed it and realized that really it was very true for BOTH of us at that point...Neither one of us was truly "present" with the other...Wayward me was certainly a million miles away...Mr. W was "there" because he could be-"So There!"...It was just sex at that point...

BUT...

Mr. W pointed out that there comes a time in recovery that you have to stop treating your wife as an object...For us, this coincided with my becoming remorseful and present with him-It works in tandem...Lovemaking then resumes and is VERY healing...Intimate conversation helped both of us get there and continues to draw us closer today-NOTHING is off limits between us...We both understand so much more now...Both freely giving of ourselves to the other...completely...

Krazy's post is one that I'm glad I read-made me think, I appreciate that...It reminds me of something Noodle once said here...Paraphrasing: "If a WS really knew what went on in the mind of a BS, they would always sleep with one eye open." That is simultaneously funny and true, from what I've learned...

Mrs. W

Ah, yes Noodle.

She does have a way with the English language.

As a longtime user of Vitamin-V and its cousins, I suggest not using it unless you really have to, and if you're not really suffering from ED, start with a lower dose (25mg - buy 50mg tablets and use a pill-splitter). Not only can the effects be psychologically addictive, women generally don't like to have sex with a truncheon, if you get my drift. You'll also reduce the chance of getting the morning headaches by keeping the dose low.

Yup - roger-wilco

I completely AGREE

Of course the cooties I snuffed were female gender - cootercooties (can I get away with that? we'll soon find out) I am, naturally, speaking about “Cooter” from television’s The Dukes of Hazzard .... in case you were wondering....

anywho - where was I ???

oh - yeah - snuffing cooties - I used a rodeo-riding-cowgirl as my visual - I got on and I let that buck know who's boss and who ain't
I rode that thang'till I busted it. If it twern't black 'n blue ... I wasn't finished 'till it 'twas....

ya'know - this just makes me laff writing this -

this phase did not last all that long .... no former BH was permanently harmed in the breaking of that bull --- it did scare the bejeeezezz outta him --- I think my head spun completely around --- but, just that one time ....

and people who have never experienced this --- just will not "get" how near violent gut-busting down 'n dirty bumping uglies actually helps forward marriage recovery after infidelity ....

but - it's true


Pep

Er, Conan goes Krazy. . ...... .. ..... ROFLMAO

Larry

Yea, okay, pay attention to MiM's further specification.

and. . .


Which is why I originally recommended Vitamin V as MiM calls it - and the further reason is that trunchon is required for what both me and Krusht suggested.

In point of fact, I recommended both dating AND Conan. Sorta like hit em high and hit em low for maximum effect, or something like that.

Oh, and I have this image of PeP and high boots with a saddle whip yelling giddiup. Is she staring in a comedy club near you?

Larry

Well, in the spirit of reclaiming SF, I summoned the courage to have the STD talk last night. I was nervous. She was hurt, angry, and I think a little embarrassed. But, in the end everything worked out and she is trying to get in to her Dr, today, to have the tests. Hopefully everything turns out okay, because everyone’s posts yesterday have me, ah, ready to reclaim what is rightfully mine. But, from what you guys are suggesting I may need clearance from my Dr to engage in that level of exertion at my age.

After her initial reaction, we actually had a really good talk. I think she may be starting to finally get it. She’s got a long way to go, but she’s making progress. She finally admitted that what she did was wrong. She has apologized for hurting me in the past few weeks, but she has never truly owned her actions and recognized that her affair was wrong. She claims to understand that she was wrong, but says that she still gets angry with me sometimes because she felt abandoned and unneeded. I guess when you realize that you were duped and used as a disposable toy for someone’s enjoyment it makes it easier to swallow if you can put some of the blame on someone else. I simply told her once again that I will own my responsibility for the condition of our marriage, but that the fault for her affair lies solely on her shoulders.

I also told her that I was willing to do the hard work to make myself a better person and a better husband, but that if this marriage was going to survive that she had to do her share of the heavy lifting. She says she understands, but I guess time will tell. I also asked her a number of specific affair questions and I believe she answered them honestly based on the info I’ve been able to get from OMW and several former coworkers. Nothing earth shattering, but I purposely tossed her a few softballs to see if she would be honest. We’ll get to the more difficult questions in the next few weeks.

Good job, I'm relieved that things went well.

At your age you better be CERTAIN to get a physical before you try to emulate Pep. :eek:

RB65

Well, I see things going very well for you, initially. Without question, you are handling things as a mature grownup should. In the process, you are doing the right things for you and your family.

Just a prediction: you are going to go to 90% recovery pretty quickly, more quickly than average, then more slowly, until you find a hanging point, a plateau, where you will sit for an indefinite time. Frankly, a lot depends on what your wife does, which is just obvious.


communication. . .

If someone is unhappy, they have an obligation to so say, especially as males cannot read minds. As a guy, you have focus on earning a living. At times, that means a partial neglect of what a woman might want for intimacy since so much of your energy is spent making a living, something does NOT come without effort.

It is all a compromise. Maximising income has a price. A spouse has to realize that the standard of living might take a hit if their partner places more emphasis on family, depending on the job demands, etc.

I too was partially neglecting my wife during a period of time when my business was falling apart. She says she tried to tell me. I don't remember those conversations. I suspect she used female speak instead of the direct language that males require and I further suspect that she would not have been ready for me to tell her that our income required me to continue as I was or we would not be able to pay all our bills.

So you share 50/50 the state of the marriage that triggered her weakness(es), but as you say and as must be said, she made the choices to give it up to someone else, poor choice that it was. Blame shifting is exactly that, blame shifting.

It is easy to grow apart. It is hard to stay together given the demands on our time these days. Not everyone is lucky enough to have a high level, protected government job where the income is assured no matter what. Not everyone is lucky enough to have income that exists without much effort.

One phase you will hit is the "Honeymoon." This is the stage just about every recovering couple hits at some point in time and this is where you reclaim whatever level of mutual clinging together you will achieve. The suggestions presented that focus on vigor are intended to make that time a good one.

Larry

"Tranlated: F her like a porn star."

Krazy's helpful addition to the MB principal

Whew! Its so nice to see something in writing that describes what I was always afraid to say about me and my wife's recovery.

I loved seeing this post Krazy because I snickered and snorted with a grin because i know exactly what you are talking about.

I actually can relate that even her ...grooming down there had to change because ... I wanted something different about her that... was unique again to just us.

TMI... maybe but you started it.

Don't worry...you're not the only one. I wonder how common this is.

Well, this can’t be good. I just got a call from DD19 who went to Dr with WW for moral support. She doesn’t know what’s up, but wanted me to come home because WW came out of Dr’s office in tears. She won’t tell DD19 what’s wrong until she talks to me.

So, I’m closing up shop and heading home to see what nightmare awaits this time. I want off of this crazy ride right now. But, I’m guessing that it’s not even close to being over at this point.

I just hope it isn't a pregnancy, that will open up a completely new set of issues for you, and you've already got your hands MORE than full at this time.

I'm hoping her guilt just caught up with her, since shes now facing actual reality. Maybe just having to look at her doctor and having to answer medical questions cleared some of the fog??

No matter what it is, I am sure its going to alot of energy to deal with whats waiting at home.

Hoping for the best

Bobby

I am rush posting this, I don't remember if you ever got ahold of OMW but if your wife has a STD, OMW needs to be told ASAP.

Oh, I hope not..... That flashed across my mind, but let's hope not. Why don't these WS's THINK?????!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Praying she is just upset.

Think about what Believer, consequences? Why that would take all the, er, fun out of it. Maybe I ought to start a thread and name it consequences to see how many could be listed.

Larry

RB65

We are here for you whatever it is. This place is like having hundreds of best friends looking out for you.

Larry

Apparently you guys are way more perceptive than I am. I go home prepared to deal with the STD train wreck only to find out that’s not the problem. Now, my 42y/o WW is PREGNANT. It has to be OM’s because I had the big V over 10 years ago. Of course I LB big time with statements like, “how could you be so stupid, I would expect this out of a teenager but not a supposedly well educated intelligent adult, and I hope you’re happy because now the kids and I have to be reminded everyday how you single handedly destroyed this family.” All she could do was keep saying “I’m sorry” and crying, but at this point sorry is just not god enough.

I finally just told her that I needed to just go for a while and we could talk about this later when I had a chance to get myself together. As it would happen, as I was getting into my car, my friend and Pastor called to remind me that we were supposed to get together tonight to talk about this mess. So, I decided the best thing was to keep the appointment and see if he had any suggestions to help.

He was actually a lot of help. He reminded me that when we talked at lunch on Monday, that I had been ready to forgive WW and move on to recover our marriage. He also reminded me that at that time I knew about her affair, I knew that she had unprotected sex with OM, I knew a lot about how the affair started and many of the details. His next question was “what has she done since yesterday to change where you were at.” Of course, I reminded him that she is PREGNANT. He then explained that her pregnancy was a consequence of her past actions and that she had actually done nothing else to change the situation. She had only found out information about something that we all knew, whether we admitted it or not, could be a result of her past actions.

He also reminded me that while God hates divorce, that I certainly had every right to divorce her given the circumstances. But, he also told me that since I was totally committed to reconciliation before this announcement that maybe I shouldn’t give up hope just yet. I left and dove around thinking about it for awhile and came to the conclusion that he was right. I don’t know if I can deal with this speed bump or not. But, I need to give it a try.

When I got home, WW was still up and looked like she had been crying all night. I told her that I really couldn’t talk about all of this now, but that we would talk about it after work today. I am clearing my calendar and taking the afternoon off to talk with her while the 2 younger kids are at school. I also told her that we would try to get through this somehow. I know that given the fact that we both are strongly opposed to abortion, the only alternatives left are to keep the baby or put it up for adoption. I just don’t know at this point if I can help raise OM’s child. Now, not only do I have the picture of the 2 of them together etched into my brain for a trigger, but now I have to be reminded of this every time I see a pregnant women or a small child.

Can someone please explain to me how a 42 y/o Christian, well educated women could be so stupid as to risk her future and her family’s future over a few romps with a married man in the back of a car and on the floor of a vacant house?

I was afraid that's what it was. STD test results generally aren't available the same day, but we all know that a pregnancy test can be done in minutes.

I'm sorry for this latest development. Just calm down before you make any decisions. Try to avoid LBs even if you don't want to stay married, just to be the bigger person. I don't know what I would do if I were in your shoes, but I'll pray for you and I know that you will be alright and make the right decisions.

By the way, there are plenty of people on this forum that are raising someone else's child, so if you need to talk to someone about it, there is a wealth of resources available.

RB, I am so sorry and I am astounded by your composure in the face of this development. This was my worse nightmare during my wifes affair. Unfortunately this is pretty common and there are a lot of people here who can help you. You and your family will be in my prayers.

I sorry to say that I went to bed last night guessing you WW was pregnant. It is most likely the OM's. Though I have known of where vasectomy's turn out to not be 100% effective. Also cases were reported that after time the V had reversed themselves.

This is why I recommend that you get your Doc to check your sperm count. Not to raise false hopes. But take any shot you have.

I do not remember the details of your post so I ask: Has your WW gone NC with the OM and when was the date? Did your WW know that she has missed any of her periods and when was the date of the first period did WW miss? Point is did: WW suspect being pregnant before she got caught and dumped by the OM?

Given your statement about abortion above, I can tell you we will look at this from opposite perspectives, and that is my intent here ... not to argue with you to get you to see my perspective, but to offer an alternative way of looking at things. I RESPECT you for how you've handled this so far and feel comfortable that you will make the correct decision for YOU. You have my complete sympathy.

With that said, from my perspective, your WW just presented you with what I would consider a "deal breaker". Knowing what I now know about the pain of recovery from adultery, I simply COULDN'T, and WOULDN'T even attempt to raise OM's child. Also, because of the triggers that you mentioned, I wouldn't even be able to stay while my WW carried OM's baby to term in order to give it up for adoption.

After reading some of the stories here about BH's raising OM's children, I've given this topic quite a bit of introspection. I understand you have different beliefs, but for me, my WW would either have to fully agree to an immediate abortion or I would have no choice but to divorce.

You have impressed us with your strength in handling this matter. Your actions indicate a lot of strength, pride and self-respect. While these qualities are GREAT in my book, they will make attempting to raise another man's child nearly impossible. Please consider the amount of pure pain you will have to endure for the rest of your life. You will likely never be able to have a normal relationship with your WW ever again. This could very well destroy you from within.

I understand that I will likely get a few harsh responses from other posters, but I don't intend to argue this point, just offer my perspective for your consideration.

I'm just so sorry for you ... you deserve so much better than to have to face this awful circumstance.

I only have a moment, but I'll try to answer your questions.

She has been NC for a little over 3 weeks, not totally because she wanted to but because OM has ignored her and sent a letter with his wife telling her to leave them alone.

She has only missed 1 period and is actually only a couple of weeks late. That's not unusualy for her in the past 10 years since she has been off of the pill.

I don;t think she suspected this. Over the past few days, she has been gettign a lot closer to the way she was pre-affair. She truly appeared to be devastated by the news.

I'm stil just struggling with how she could let this happen. I look at her suffering and at first I feel some compassion and the next breath, I'm hoping that ghe will have morining sickness everyday to remind her of what she has done.

RB, when you agreed to work on the marriage, you did not know she was pregnant. That nullifies your previous agreement. That adds a whole new dynamic to the mix which makes this much more than adhering to an agreement, but more about what you can ENDURE. This can cause more resentment than some people can ENDURE. You have a God granted OUT of this marriage if you choose and would be fully justified if you left.

My suggestion is to make no decision and commit to nothing while you are under extreme duress. I would take at least 6 weeks to make a decision. But you are NOT beholden to a promise that was made WITHOUT ALL THE FACTS. You simply ARE NOT.

As far as the childs future, I would take a strong look at ADOPTION. Abortion is an abomination that only compounds the crime. Murder is not a solution to adultery, and more evil is not the answer to evil. With adoption, the child would have a fresh start in a family that has no baggage. If you keep the child you may be looking at a lifelong future with the OM and you may be forever reminded of the affair. A very tough situation.

I am very sorry for you and your wife, RB. And for this unborn child.

What terrible news. I cannot begin to understand what you are going through. As for how she could be so stupid? Well people in affair seldom think past the present moment. I sure didn’t when I was in an affair. And I am just lucky my OW didn’t end up like your wife. Stupid, Stupid, Stupid.

You need to begin to make practical decisions on how you are going to deal with this. Are you going to stay married to her? Are you going to raise this child as your own? If so, I wouldn't even tell the OM about the pregnancy. He can't challenge paternity if he doesn’t know she is pregnant by him.

Perhaps you want to put him on the line financially for the child and force him to pay child support. This will of course involve lawyers and family court. It will also allow him to get visitation of the child. Can you deal with that?

Would your wife REALLY put the child up for adoption? Would the OM let her if he knew it was his child? I certainly can’t speak for most women, but I do know that my wife would never put a child of hers up for adoption, no matter who sired it. It would emotionally kill her to do so. She would divorce me if I tried to force her to do that.

There are men that can and do raise a child sired by another man. Some seem to be able to see beyond the sin and just love the child. That type of altruism amazes me, but I am cut from a lesser cloth. I would have to punt and just divorce. I think.

How will you explain this to your kids?

What heartbreaking news RB. I'm very sorry to hear this.

I personally do not think I would be willing to raise OMs child. Having never been in that situation, I can't say for sure, but I think that would be a deal breaker for me. Of course, parts of my own situation would probably be a deal breaker for others, and everyone says prior to experience infidelity in thier lives that it would be a deal breaker for them and the truth is that it isn't usually, so it really is impossible for anyone that hasn't "been there" to know what they would do.

I personally am against abortion in general, not for spiritual reasons, but I do disagree with it. I think though that I would not rule it out if I were in a similar situation. I know this goes against the very strong beliefs of many here, and I understand and to some extent agree with them, but I have to be honest with you, I would consider it.

I'm wishing you the best in what must be one of the toughest situations I can imagine. There are many here that have walked this road before you, I'm sure they will be able to help you make the right decision.

RB65,

Once again, I can relate. Although my daughter has been proven to be mine after the fact, my W was 6 weeks pregnant (intentionally) when I walked in on her.

The A ruined the entire pregnancy for both of us. I refused to get attached to my daughter, or even the idea of her, until I knew she was mine.

I did this because I knew if she wasn't mine, I was gone. There was NO WAY I was going to raise OM's child. I knew that as long as I lived I'd always look at her and think of OM. That wouldn't have been fair to me or the baby.

In my case, I was lucky. She turned out to be mine. In your case, already knowing it isn't yours, I don't know what to tell you. People think it takes a lot to stay with a WS, but that's nothing compared to raising OM's child. I couldn't do it.

Whatever you decide, make sure OM and his W know he's got another baby out there. Maybe you can even make him help pay for it financially. Please don't let him off the hook, though.

Runnerboy, I probably don't even need to say this, but I want to just point out that morals are not something we apply only when they are convenient. You and I both know what the EASY thing [in the short run, not in the long run when the ole conscience kicks in] to do would be, but it is not the RIGHT thing to do. For anyone. it wouldn't be the right thing for the child, and it wouldn't be the right thing for your CONSCIENCES. It would set a horrible example for your kids.

Your family needs you more than ever to be a man of principle in times of crisis, not just when its easy and convenient. Having an abortion might be the easy thing, but it would simply be compounding the crime.

Giving the child up for adoption would be an act of decency, character, sacrifice and generosity. I hope and pray your wife can rise to the challenge.

What a tragic mess.

I couldn't do it. I could forgive infidelity, but I know I couldn't raise OM's child.

Seeing that child would remind me every day of the adultery.

What's going to happen when the child is acting up? Throwing tantrums? Doing the things kids do?

With my kids? Not a problem. It's part of fathering children.

Someone else's kid? Sorry. See ya later.

The thing is that you could divorce her and the family court system would rule to screw you with child support for this kid.

The courts are put into a tough situation on this and there are no easy answers. The child is an innocent victim of this adultery. You are a victim of adultery.

Can you set your feelings aside and raise this child as your own if necessary?

Does your love for your W go deep enough to do this?

Can you check your own fertility for the remote possiblity that you have your V reversed naturally (it happens)?

Could your W handle giving the child up for adoption? Could you give the OM full custody?

Perhaps you can nail him for CS to support the child while having him out of your life. I don't know the legalities.

I can see this taking it's toll.

If my W got pregnant with OM's child I can't see myself jumping out of bed to feed and change diapers. I'd see it as, "hey, it's your kid, not mine, you take care of it."

Callous? Or simply reality?

I don't think I could do it. But why should your children suffer and have their parents split?

What selfish people these waywards are. The shortsightedness is amazing.

I'll never forget looking at my W, moments after walking in on her, and screaming at her that, "She might as well abort that thing right now".

It's such an awful situation.

Keep it and raise it as your own? Jesus himself would be hard-pressed to do such a thing, in my opinion. Some men do, but even I, as a BH trying to piece things back together, see them as completely castrated doormats. The ultimate cake-eating situation for the WW. Let OM knock her up, and let the sucker at home pay for it. OM has the fun, you get to suffer for years on end. Even the BH's that claim to "love the child as their own" appear to be fooling themselves...putting on an act to get by without losing their family.

Adoption? You can plan for it all you want, but in all likelyhood after carrying the baby around for the better part of a year, she won't give it up. Even if she did, it would forever be used as ammunition against you. SHE gave up her precious child just for YOU.

Abortion...see above, only with added guilt thrown in. In my case, if I'd known she wasn't mine, I would've agreed to it, even though I don't approve of abortion. I support the right of others to choose it, however.

It's a lose-lose-lose scenario, in my opinion, but whatever you decide, DO NOT let OM off the hook. At the very least let his W know that he knocked up his mistress. OM deserves to have his home turned as upside-down as your is.

The worst thing would be the subconscious knowledge of the child that he or she isn't wanted. It would shine through in everything you guys do, and that child would be doomed to an unhappy, if not neurotic, life, with her alone (if you divorce) or with the two of you.

There are thousands of people out there who wait endlessly for a baby to adopt.

I agree with every word of this.

Please do not make up your mind until you have given yourself AMPLE time to process this nightmare. Some guys could handle this, others couldn't, and it doesn't make you any more of.. or any less of.. a man either way. For me personally, divorce or adoption would seem most practical. BUT this is about you and what you need to do.
I am so sorry. My best advice right now is pray for enlightenment on the right thing to do. My heart aches for you, your family and for this baby.

I'm so sorry Runnerboy. You know, I've been following your thread because you have done everything right and it has been working. In this short time, I've come to really admire you. You certainly don't deserve what has just been handed to you. This whole scenario shows just how selfish WSs really are. It makes me understand a little why in some countries, they stone you for adultery. Whatever you decide to do, you have a lot of support and respect here.

I really have no clue as to what I'm going to do. I was so excited about the progress I have seen over the past few days only to have the rug pulled out from under me. This is so different from just the infidelity with so many more long-term issues to think about.

While I appreciate everyone's opinion, I know for sure that abortion is not the answer and I would argue with WW if she even brought it up. Whether the child is mine or not, it is innocent in all of this and killing the child is not the answer.

I pride myself on my strength of character and my ability to handle almost everything that's thrown at me. But, this is more difficult and painful than anything I have ever had to face. My emotions are just swinging from one extreme to the other. I guess I'll just have to see what this afternoon brings.

I do want to recover my marriage even though I know it would be much easier to just give up. I know that I have the strength to get beyond her infidelty. I just don't know if I can endure 9 months of pregnancy and raising another man's child. I also don't know that if we can somehow save our marriage, that I will not always harbor resentment for her and ths child. Adoption seems like a really good alternative to me, but knowing how much WW loves our children, I don't know if she has the strength to give up this child. This afternoon, I've decided to just lay everything out on the table and see how she deals with everything. Her response will determine if I think I can stick this out and try a little longer or if it's time to just throw in the towel. At this point, I will need for her to do a lot more of the heavy lifting if she wants me to stay.

And let me add..

If you think there is a good chance you will not work this out, you will need proof soon, that this is not your baby, before you get stuck with 18 years of child support.

So sorry, RunnerBoy. Now you need to take your time and not make any quick decisions. I'm so relieved that you don't believe in abortion, because I feel that would be a terrible burden to carry the rest of your lives.

However, there is a lot to consider. Please check with an attorney and see what the law is in your state. If you agree to raise this child, and something happens in your marriage, you may be on the hook for child support for the next 18 years.

If you decide to inform the OM's wife, which I would certainly do, he may have rights to see the child. I think he does need to be paying child support, but at what cost to your marriage and family?

You and your wife decided NOT to have any more children and now you are faced with a late in life pregnancy. OM and your wife made THAT decision for you.

Adoption would seem like the best option. We all know there are millions of couples that can't have a child. If your wife LOVES children so much, maybe she will think about what is best for this child and her family.

This whole thing will be exremely painful to everyone involved. There is no way to get around that.

I don't know much about the adoption process, but you two should have plenty of time to think about it.

It's tough that you're not supposed to make any major decisions for at least 6 months after d-day, yet here you are. A new BH and a pregnant WW, forced to make a huge life-altering decision in the middle of this mess.

There are many intelligent, good people here. I may not be one of them, but there are people here that can probably help...at least as much as a stranger can help in such a situation.

To the people who are posting that DO NOT have an OC, you do NOT know your breaking point, or your point of no return UNTIL YOU ARE FACED WITH THE EXACT SAME SCENARIO.

Runnerboy, there is a worse scenario than a child. I know it's hard to believe, but there is. It involves disease and death.

You and your wife need not make any decisions right now. Now, you need to wrap your mind around the fact that your lives have been changed forever. After you are able to do that, THEN you need to weigh your options.

Having an OC in your life does not necessarily make you a doormat. As with everything regarding these issues, it's your actions or lack thereof that determine your rug status. I want you to know that.

I also caution you toward making the OC known to the OM for now. While there are many people here that loathe the duplicity of keeping a DNA child from their donor, I've personal experience, and witnessed other's experiences, and think that not all donors are GOOD for their progeny to know. But again, that isn't a decision for now.

I will only say that my husband's adultry did have it's blessings for me. I look upon them every day. I kiss them goodbye and toddle them off to school. I see only them, and not their mother. They are worthy PEOPLE. They are little humans that have the same needs and wants as any other little human. Who am I to say no to that?

- Kimmy, never a doormat

You are a good and decent man, RB. It is in horrifically stressed times like this that the measure of man's character comes out. You are standing tall today regardless of whether or not you decide to stay in the marriage. Only you can make that decision for yourself because only you can understand what you can or can't endure. All marriages cannot be saved. But we do have some here who are raising OC and seem to be ok. [I say that very cautiously] I am trying to be honest with you.

I only hope that you don't make a decision now, but give this time to sink in.


You know, she might surprise you. A woman who does love her children, as she does, places the child's BEST INTEREST before her emotional satisfaction. It is never easy to give up a child, and I so greatly admire those women who have the strength of character to place the well being of a child before their own personal interests. They are true heroes.

I am bringing this up only because much of the focus seems to be on HER FEELINGS over the best interest of the child. If I were in her shoes it would be hard to focus AWAY from myself and onto the child, so I hope you can help steer her in that regard.

I'm so sorry.

If you want her to put the child up for adoption and she does not, then I think you ought to move straight towards D.

If you pressure her (in any way) and she does give the child up, she will always resent you for it.

There is no compromise that will be ok to either of you, especially in the long run.

RB65

First of all, you are getting opinions and the feelings of those who have been (possibly) in your shoes. Because of the serious and devastating nature of an OM (or OW) child, there are not one but two forums on here specifically addressing the issue. It is hard to think clearly when the bullets are flying in your direction and they are my friend.

Up front, I will tell you that my wife and I faced this same situation although it turned out to be a non issue because she wasn't pregnant. But we discussed the possibility because she choose to have unprotected sex with the OM. I gave her my take at the time and she understood because I was very specific in my language without any yelling or LB beyond the simple fact that she had done something that could very well have destroyed more than just herself and we would find out in a few days or she could take a test immediately. I will tell you after my signature what I would have done.

Now you are facing the situation for real and my heart goes out to you. My heart also goes out to the innocent child that no matter what will be scared by the thoughtless actions of not only your WW but also of the cretin who impregnated her, the married man who cheated on his wife. He is obviously a person of no honor or integrity. I will get to him on down the page a bit.

Like others here, I do not agree with your Pastor. You have every right to change your mind about anything and everything based on facts as you discover. The new fact that your wife is pregnant changes the dynamics completely. By all means, tell him so in exactly the words you want to use (if you agree). If not, tell him what you think. He does sound like a person you can talk to who will give you other ways of looking at something just like many on this board will do including me.

And like several others, I would wait a bit before making any decision at all. In the face of extreme adversity, you are not thinking clearly and certainly have not settled in your emotions as to what this all means. You need time to digest and think.

You need time to sort out all the possibilities. And I will underline that time is your best friend as you face the toughest challenge in your life. And without question, your feelings are going be on a roller coaster - changing more than once as you go down the rocky road.


As a matter of fact, I can answer your plea for understanding, if I may. Picture her situation as a person who, out of weakness, tried a drug of choice. In this case, it was a drug called Phenylethylamine (PEA). This is the Infatuation drug that occurs naturally in the brain and has characteristics of methamphetamines in terms of the way one's judgement center goes out of whack; history is rewritten, people do crazy things, and there is a natural high that obliterates any thought of consequences. Please note that I said "Drug of choice," as nobody made her take the step down the slippery road of addiction, she did it all on her own and flunked the test of honor, integrity and ethics. She also acted like a teenager in heat, not like a grownup, but that is par for the course for those who choose to get hooked.

There are many innocent victims of your wife's affair including you, your kids, this new child (who didn't ask for what might be a very uncertain future), Grandparents, the OMW and his family, and I wouldn't hesitate to point out that fact to your wife.

She needs to have it burned into her brain cells up front and right now that she cannot, nor will you allow her to, blame shift and dodge growing up for real, immediately. She has new life growing in her body. She no longer has any options, she must act in the best interests of those she has damaged forever to mitigate as much as possible the short and long term effects of her bad choices and decision(s).

Frankly, her feelings and excuses no longer draw any water. She must face reality, stark and total as it is, not as she might want to imagine that reality to be so she can retain whatever tatters of her self respect she is trying to retain. She must own her garbage 100%, period, right now and forever. This is the one place I will give you strong advice. The rest of my comments to you are intended to give you things to think about and nothing else as you muddle though sorting things out as best you can.

There is no way you pushed her to run out and get knocked up and if she chooses to go there, it is just going to make life more difficult for those she has acted to damage as listed.

BTW, I figured that she was pregnant and have been thinking about this since yesterday, examining how I felt at the time and how I processed my feelings, because processing your feelings is where you are and will be for some time. One thought I had was that you cannot allow yourself to accept the advice of others except AS FOR OTHERS, because none of those who will tell you their feelings are YOU, including, especially, me. Take what is said in as part of reaching a decision and of dealing with the total reality, not as guidance, because in this most difficult of choices you have in front of you, the only person who can really understand you, is you.

Here are some suggestions:

You owe OM nothing, zero, except to provide for him whatever he deserves, if you can. He too must own what he did, one way or the other. My mild recommendation would be to tell his wife and him and let him sweat as to what you are going to do. Nothing changes a person like being squeezed in the crucible of life's lessons, kinda like Marine Corp boot camp. Maybe it is time the cretin faced his own consequences.

At this point in time, you can probably destroy him. Since I do not know of his situation, I can make no recommendation. Perhaps his life needs destroying. He certainly deserves no respect since this apparently is not the first co-worker with whom he has had an affair. Does he have young children? Has he learned a lesson in life? What kind of person is his betrayed wife? Exactly what you do depends on the answers you will find in your heart and the best interest of the child that is growing in your wife.

Your wife has made her choices. Now it is your turn. She can make more choices if she wants, but the real choices are yours at this point in time. I believe you have the capacity to make the right choices based on the possible and not some super human path that even a Saint could not thread. This does not mean that you couldn't raise the kid with kindness and love. You might, but I don't know you well enough to even suggest that.

If it were me, and I am not you, this is what I believe I would eventually be of a mind to do given the circumstances as I understand them to be and part of the decision process does belong to your wife based on the choices YOU give her:

1. Have the child, elect to raise it as your own, put it up for adoption, or,
2. Lets divorce and I get custody of our kids; it is up to you to raise the new child and I will not interfere in that process or teach our own kids to hate him or her, but instead, to love him or her as their half brother or sister.
3. No abortion. I hate the thought of killing someone.
4. If you put it up for adoption, we will make every effort to restore a new relationship with each other for the sake of our kids and ourselves. With no guarantee, we may eventually be able to put this behind us.
5. We tell the OMW and the OM about the consequences of his affair(s) and let them deal with it as they will. Insist that HE pay for hospital and birth expenses as a start and if adoption, he put aside a fund to pay for college down the road.

That is all I can give you to think about at this time. As you have seen, there are a lot of people here ready and willing to help you anyway they can and those same people will be ready to help your WW if she chooses to use this forum resource.

Finally, you might want to call the Harley's. In fact, I would recommend it. They are specialists in this arena and the best there is for helping you deal with this most devasting reality that has through no fault of your own, landed in your lap and the lap of your family.

Larry

PS: Here is what I did. Based on a somewhat different situation from your's, I told my wife that I would adopt and raise the child as my own. I already have two step-kids that I feel as my own, plus one we made together; one more wouldn't make a quantitative or emotional difference to ME.

I also stipulated that we must sue (with her wholehearted support or else) the OM for every nickle we could squeeze out of him and that he would NEVER be permitted to see or interact with the child until the child was of an age of understanding. No cloud must be allowed to hover over that child while in the formative stages of life.

She agreed with no fingers crossed.

I also gave her the choice of divorce, which she rejected. In the course of discussion, I laid down the law exactly and she has lived up to the spirit ever since. I have no complaints on that score of any consequence.

PPS: I wish I had Pep's ability to put things in simple terms. Maybe she will chime in and do exactly that.

Good point Marsh.

I must say that she made her choices. Now it is his turn and part of that process is to present her with his choices based on what she chooses to do. It becomes sort like dealing with a teenager and offering them choices, the outcomes of which are also presented as part of the offer.

She made her choices without discussing them with him. Now it is his turn as he wills.

Larry

I can't seem to stay off this thread.

To be fair, I did want to tell you that I am very close to a couple of cases which worked out, in which BS did keep OC and raise as his own. Yes, it can be done. I just hate to see you pressured to do this, as if it's the ONLY honorable thing. You can be an honorable man and raise the child, you can be equally honorable by giving it up for adoption or asking for a divorce. The ONLY thing I would not find honorable is abortion, and that is not an issue since you already agree that abortion is wrong.

RB65:


You posted that while I was rambling away. I must say your maturity of response to all this is an example for others to take. Your clarity of thought in the middle of being shot at is amazing.

And you are exactly right.

Larry

Oh heck, RB, call the Harleys. Might be the best thing you could do.

Larry

MyRev, you are entitled to your personal feelings. However, don't believe for a second that IF IF IF Om is not involved that they cannot have a good, solid recovered M and raise this child as a COM. It has and can be done.

RB, do take time to think and PRAY on this. Do not tell OM about the pregnancy. In most states, this child is a COM and an interloper cannot force DNA testing. You can raise this child as your own if you are willing. I can almost guarentee that you will fall in love with the child the moment you lay eyes on him/her.

REALLY? Jesus himself was an OC. Joseph had no problem raising him as his own. Krazy, these are very harsh statements to someone that is very hurt and confused.

I strongly recommend you NOT go this route if you decide to stay married. Do not let OM have any rights to this child if you chose to remain married.

Oh, don't get me wrong...it's not the only honorable thing.

Adoption is a very loving and selfless action.

But no matter what the decision, it must be made with much forethought and careful consideration.

That, really, was my main point...well, that and OCs are not "spawn" or "it" or "things."

In many states (check the laws in your state) he has two years to demand paternity testing.

***EDIT****

Jesus IS the son of God was not Joseph's child. Joseph was instructed to raise Jesus as his own. I never said Mary was a WW. I never said Jesus was ANYTHING LESS THAN HOLY and PERFECT. I was countering your ridiculous statement that Christ himself would not raise another man's child.

Krazy, it is a harsh story and frankly a reason for many to question their belief in God. But do YOU need to be so disrespectful to those that call themselves Christian?

I happen to agree with your take that the BH raising the OC is nothing more than the ultimate cake eating. IMHO, these women should not be accepted back...but that is a personal choice to make.

Very personal.

You know, you could have said your peace, like Krazy and I did, and move on, but instead you chose to take shots at the valid perspectives of others. FWIW, I think Krazy's post that you quoted is one of the most "honest" posts on this thread ... he acknowledges the "conflict" within, while recognizing the "reality" of the situation, unlike your attempts to blow sunshine at it.

Sure these are "harsh" statements ... rb65 is in a "harsh" situation, probably the worst imaginable for himself.

Also, citing biblical stories to support your position is only effective if you're communicating with someone with the same belief systems ... it is quite obvious, we operate in different "realities".

Sorry, rb65, for the t/j.

FF, I do not think his statement was ridiculous. I think he was demonstrating how hard this situation truly is...that even the most "holy" among us would have trouble meeting that "ideal." (I put "ideal" in quotes because I do not think a BH raising the OC is the ideal. I see adoption as being the best and really, only solution).

Agreed

*****EDIT*****

Kimmy,

I was SO glad to see your post! I was going to go over to the Pregnancy Board and ask you to hop over here and weigh in. Your experience and the maturity and love with which you have managed it speak volumes about the woman that you are. It is also a lesson in how we don't know our true capacity to love until it is put to the test. You are a remarkable lady and hope that you keep posting to RB to help him through this difficult time.

With high regard,

Brit's Brat

Krazy, are you trying to piss off a lot of people here? I think you are starting to go too far and frankly I will personally ask the mods to edit you.

I'm not trying to blow sunshine up your skirt.

I will NOT ever say anything about that part of my life other than it was the hardest thing I EVER had to go through.

I WILL tell you that it was worth it FOR ME.

Every nightmare that I had and STILL have, every ache and every pain and every bit of it...

WAS

WORTH

IT

FOR

ME.

I don't think we need to digress on this thread regarding the paternity of Jesus.

Abortion is not an option for him, so there is no need to debate that either.

All we can do is offer him support.

There are very different approaches to this by men and women. I think women are a lot more open to raising other children than men are. It's biology. There are obvious exceptions.

Step kids, for example, are that way up front and you know as a dad that it comes with the package you're marrying.

Having a child thrust on you that's the product of infidelity? Totally new situation.

That was not a decision he asked for and I think that there is an instinctually biological rejection of the idea by most men.

From a strictly biological standpoint a female is happy to have a provider male care for her children regardless of paternity. A male wants to be with a female who will provide him with children that are his and he's happy to provide for HIS children.

Not worth the effort to put in the work and resources to raise children that aren't his.

That's simple biology and we see it in the animal kindgom and in people.

It sucks because no option in front of him is good. Divorce means splitting up the family and access to his children. Adopting the child means dealing with a walking and talking reminder of infidelity for years afterwards.

Abortion is not an option.

Keeping child and contacting OM to have him pay for CS means dealing with OM for the next 18 years.

This just sucks all around.

No one can blame you for the choice you make because there are no good choices. Adoption seems like the best one, but there would need to be an agreement with the wife that it will never, ever be held against you or that guilt would be dumped on you for that choice.

I don't see it as disrespect. It's like recounting details of the A when talking to my W.

She may not like to hear it and she may get upset or angry, but facts are facts. Don't like it? Shouldn't have done it.

Maybe it could be an open adoption. That is a lot more common these days. She could still visit her child and be like an "aunt" to it while RB wouldn't have to see it.

Too far? How?

Facts are facts.

Just because you don't want to hear them, doesn't make them any less true.

I will stop out of respect to RB65, but not because what I say is inaccurate. It isn't.

MEDC,

With all due respect, and I think you know I mean that, I don't think Krazy needs editing. Ugly subjects lead to ugly discussions. Also, keep in mind that had some of the other posters not tried to belittle the beliefs of others by declaring their moral superiority, then Krazy would have never responded "in kind".

Given Krazy's 1st hand experience of what rb65 was dealing with originally, (prior to the pregnancy being known) his state of mind is very beneficial to this discussion, even if it makes others uncomfortable. Honestly, this whole situation is "uncomfortable".

Claiming Mary was a WW just because Jesus was supposedly conceived without man is not a fact, it is inaccurate, and it is offensive to many Christians. Mary didn't choose to have God's child, it was thrust upon her. Just drop the analogy, and don't say, "Even Jesus would have a problem raising another man's child."

I disagree. I feel that Krazy offers some valid insight into this situation and that can be accomplished without fanning anti- Christian flames.

I said what I said myrev and krazy because your posts in my opinion were over the top to a man facing a betrayed's worst fears. Telling him how horrid it is will not help. Telling him *you* could never raise OM's child does not help. Krazy saying Jesus himself would have trouble raising OM's child is not helpful.

What is helpful is to call out to other posters who have BTDT and have the tshirt. We do have other posters on MB that have been in his shoes. Both BH's raising the OM's child and BW's, like Kimmy, raising the OW's children.

I apologize for letting my anger get the best of me but when I see someone like RB lost, confused and HURT over a situation that may end up being a BLESSING for him I tend to let my emotions speak.

BTW, MyREV, I didn't in any way speak scripture to you. I was speaking to Krazy about his own statement.

MEDC, I like and respect you and your POV even when we disagree.

BTW, those of you who have not faced this situation. It hurts like the dickens to have your beloved spouse have someone else's child but it does not have to be the end of the marriage. Why do you think so many of us with OC situations don't post on MB much anymore? Why do you think the p/c board is so slow? Because those of us that choose to remain in the M are not supported. Often we are called weak, the men called cuckold. Truly many of us are strong and determined to stay true to our beliefs.

ok, folks, lets stay away from the bible bashing and keep this respectful and helpful to RunningBoy. We don't want to have to lock the thread. Thanks.

I apologize for not keeping in the spirit of the topic.

So I guess the difference here is that because this child is a result of adultery, it's beyond reason to consider raising him/her as his own?

What about the child who loses his parents to an automobile accident and is shipped off to live with family friends because no other relatives are available? Where were the choices in that? What about the child who's dad is on death row and his mom is dead? His sperm donor is undoubtably a louse, but what does that make the child?

I agree with some others here. Make no immediate decisions (including informing OM or OMW). FF is correct, in the eyes of the law, that child is yours. Once you open the door to OM, it can't be closed.

As for a man choosing to be a "daddy" to a child in these circumstances... I personally think it takes a very STRONG man to step up to that plate.

Hope this thread does not get locked. I know two similar scenarios of BH raising OC - positive experiences. Just dont have the bandwidth to write it down.

Right now both RB and his wife are under incredible stress not unlike PTSD. I cannot even imagine the pain, confusion, anxiety and of course his wife's remorse right now. What a mess.

Locking the thread would be an incredible disservice to RB.

I don't think anyone here has been so bold as to tell RB what to do, many have offered different opinions and perspectives based on thier experience and the fact that there is such a diverse range of opinions highlights the difficulty of RB's situation.

IMO, it is in his best interests to hear the diversity of opinion, as it should help him consider all facets of the situation and will hopefully give him perspectives that he may not have considered otherwise. RB is here for advice, everyone should allow him to recieve it, even if they disagree with it.

Many of us were very close to being where RB is now, and are not only through pure luck. Just because we haven't been exactly right where RB is does not mean we cannot imagine it, nor does it de facto discredit our opinions. Many of us know how difficult marital recovery is in the wake of infidelity, and know that adding complications to an already difficult situation is not likely to make things easier.

*****EDIT*******

I never said it WOULD be a blessing, I said it "may" be. You see a child is a child. It is not the child's fault. I know personally two BH's that love their OC as much or more than their COM. I accept that you could not do this, Krazy. But please do not make RB feel like less of a man if he choses to stay married and raise this child.

According to YOU.

I will not make him feel like less of a man. I hope he doesn't put that much stock into what I say.

Unless he has mastered the art of self-deception, as so many others have, he will feel like less of a man all on his own...with a little help from WW, OM, and OC, of course.

This is my opinion. Not a statement of fact.

I just wanted to repost what Mel said here...


RB has already demonstrated his strength and good moral character.

He will not be less strong no matter what he decides.

Agreed.

I know of two BH here that are raising the OC and while I do think a strong man can do this if he so chooses, I would not hold either of these men up as examples for RB as they have other HUGE issues that they have failed to deal with.

agreed

You are entirely correct MM.

Actually MEDC, the two I am talking about don't post here, however the two you are talking about love their OC as well. Maybe not in our opinions the best examples of recovered marriages, but good men and good dads for sure.

I will agree to disagree with you on this point.


Of this, I have no doubt

Yes, I agree. And we would be foolish to not include those situation where we see "other issues" in the discussion, would we not? RB deserves the full support of the community, and part of that is recognizing the difficulties inherent in his situation. Sharing the successes as well as the failures (or even just "lesser successes" if you prefer). Its not about RB's character, which he is showing to be quite strong and admirable, its about allowing him to make the best decision he can based on the full spectrum of reality. That can only be done by sharing our full collective experience with him.

Thank you Revera.


Exactly. My reality is not his. But I have grown and learned from it.

RB,

What does your wife want to do? Does she what to raise this child by herself? Does she what to abort? Adopt? Does she want to stay married to you and have you help raise her child?

I know you don't know what to do yet that is why I asked what does your wife want.

If you keep the child and raise it, will you tell the kids that this baby is the result of an adulterous affair with her boss? Will you say nothing at all and just pretend that the child is yours? Do the COM deserve to know the truth about this? We are often told here to tell the children about an affair, what about a baby from an affair? If you tell the COM the truth how will that affect their interaction with the baby. How will their friends treat them when they find out that their Mom got knocked-up by her boyfriend? Have you any idea how mean kids can be?

This situation is going to be the ruination of many people for a very long time.

I do think that you could probably learn to love this child. People live this situation every day. It is amazing the immense suffering that people can survive.

I wish you peace in whatever your decision.

CN

RB

All you can to is use take your time to make a decision that is best for you. You have nine months, use everyone of them.

You are under a lot of stress and pressure right now. That is all the more reason to sit tight while you explore your options.

What options?

Have you considered having a test to rule out that your V has not reversed itself.

Consultation with a lawyer regarding if you will be stuck with OC child support if you divorce. Or is there away for you not to be held responsible.



Be advised that if you choose to recover your marriage I would suggest that you and your WW take OC's paternity to your graves.

Even if you get the OM on the hook for child support, and give the OMW the ammunition to make OM's life hell. The pay back will never be able to be enjoyed.

For marriages to recover there has to be NC between WW and OM.
Can you handle WW dealing with OM over OC parenting issues. Do not think this ends after eighteen years. Their will be college graduations, the OC's wedding, OC's children.
Contact will never end.

I could never let my wife directly deal with an OM. That means involving a third party act as a go between for communications and exchanging for visitations.


Remember what others can or can not do is not what you should or should not do.
Only you will know what you can handle. That is why it is important to take your time so you will get your clear. Then you will make the decision that is best for you.

Awesome post, TheRoad!

RB,

I'm so sorry that this is happening to you. People keep telling me that God only give us what we can handle. I know that means He has alot more faith in me than I do myself.

My prayers are with you.

I do agree with TheRoad's thread about taking the paternity to the grave. NO GOOD can come of it.

My daughter just had a child after marrying, getting pregnant and divorcing all in the same year. I see this new baby each and every day as they live in my home. That father will not have any impact on this child, even if he sees him once in a blue moon and other than giving money, there's just nothing he can really do. He lives in another state and he has his own issues.

If YOU decide to keep this child and be it's FATHER, you deserve to claim all rights to that child, emotional, physical, mental, etc. Forget about the child support, money should not drive any future decisions. You have probably already proven to be a terrific father and this child will reap the benefits of that along with the benefits of loving siblings.

JMHO

Thank you Revera:

Folks, RB is under pressure that most of us can only imagine, even those who have been in his shoes. He simply does NOT need squabbling amongst those offering advice, period.

Be respectful and be helpful, and save the high horse for someplace else at another time.

This thread is all about WHY this forum exists. Our advice as well intended as it can be made, is all about why this forum is the best on the web in what it does and for what it stands complete with the Harley's financial, educational and moral support to make it possible.

After reading everything posted so far, with emphasis on multiple reads of RB himself, I will only recommend at this time that RB seek help from the Harleys. IMHO, this is too tough for us amateurs to be completely effective, no matter how well meaning or knowledgeable; RB and his family need a professional who specializes in his situation and the downstream consequences of anything he and his collective family does. I know of no better than the Harleys.

For an example of considerations: Genetics is a part of an person. One reason why adoptees are finally getting a chance to seek their genetic parents is because of medical history issues. I have noticed of late that Doctors are starting to ask about the medical history of parents, which means biological parents. And this is my sole consideration on this point. Emotionally, I am all for NC, period.

Larry

RB,

If you get to the point where you need to hear a person's side regarding keeping the OC, having CS set up, and contact with the OP, you can holler at me.

While I am very pro child (whether it be adoption or keeping the baby, whatever is BEST for the child), I am NOT a proponent of contact with the OP and offer any insight I might have for your disposal...

I have been following along here, and wanted to remind everyone of one small snafu in this disaster that RB's WW created.

His children (adult) know of WW's infidelity.

And his DD(19) knows of the paternity- she's the one that accompanied WW to the doctor.

While I would agree with another poster that if RB decided to raise OC as his own, that the paternity should be taken to the grave...

In reality, sometimes that's not possible.

As a geneticist myself (I do genetic testing for people that want to know their risk of passing particular genetic diseases on to this children-- esp. certain cultural groups that carry particular diseases)-- I can tell you that there may (or may not) be certain diseases/conditions/etc that may arise later in life with this child, and the child may "figure out" that RB couldn't be his/her father (I've seen it happen). Simple blood group tests can sometimes be the "deciding" factor of whether or not "daddy" is really "daddy" (depending on the blood groups of all involved, of course). I had a colleague who was performing paternity testing (I myself do not do paternity testing, just testing adults that want to have children and know that certain genetic diseases run in their families and want to know their risk of passing them on...) on a teenaged girl who, after taking a high school biology class and learning about "blood groups" figured out that "daddy" couldn't be "daddy" based on the genetics and what she knew the blood groups of mom and dad were.

Heartbreaking way to figure out your daughter isn't yours... and of a prior infidelity...

It happens.

So, I wouldn't "assume" that you can keep this a secret from the child... ESPECIALLY since DD19 knows.

That is an awfully HUGE burden to put on DD19-- to keep that secret-- and certainly not fair to her.

I would operate under the assumption in this case that the child will HAVE to be told at some point. The risk of the child finding out later on in life is just too great. Medically speaking, its possible to keep this a secret. But since the other children in the family know-- I think its too much to ask THEM to keep it a secret for the rest of their lives too.

What happens if DD19 gets mad at mom and spills the beans to get back at mom? Wow, that would be devastating to OC. And to the family. Too much risk to take.

If you don't believe in abortion-- then I would REALLY REALLY consider adoption in this case. Not consider, I think it may be the only way to go. This OC is going to be an outsider for the rest of their life. I don't know that it can be kept a secret. And what happens if OM finds out its his??

My opinion... adoption, or RB is out.

I will add that, RB, If you choose to raise this child as your own RB, I admire you greatly-- and think that you are one of the strongest people I know.

I have no direct experience with this myself (emotionally speaking)-- just my opinion. but as someone mentioned, you never really know what you would do in a situation until you are IN IT.

Good luck RB, keep us posted.

E.

RB, Larry is absolutely right. This is what the Harleys specialize in. Steve Harley can assess your situation and give you a reasonable, sane PLAN that will benefit you all. He is a COACH, and won't waste your time with nonsensical psychobabble. He does phone counseling for $185 and it is worth every penny.

RB, you have to do what YOU can live with. What everyone else says can help you emotionally, mentally, etc....but in the end, only you know what you can live with and deal with.

I wish you the best of luck. As someone said, you have nine months....take this time to THINK, then make a decision.

RB

Mr. Wondering has posted a link to legal issues on the OC forum that is open.

He also says:

"In many states your husband is deemed the father by law and the OM has no standing to contest paternity. If you are unsure about your situation, consult an attorney. Do not discuss potential paternity with any OM. Statements, emails, voice-messages and disclosed self-obtained DNA test results may be utilized by an OM to rebut the presumption in your state and give OM the right (standing) to sue you to FORCE you and your child to undergo paternity DNA testing. Be careful and know your rights. Recovery with an OC is hard enough, don't accidentally make it harder by handing the OM tools which will allow him to interlope further into your marriage.'

I followed the link and got confused real fast. I suspect you need an Attorney to spell out the situation in your state.

Larry

Except in his mother's eyes (speaking as a mother).

Who says the OC would be an outsider? The children won't treat him/her differently if the parents don't. DD19 knowing the truth would be problematic if you wish to take this to the grave. I would suggest NOT asking DD to keep secrets. BTW, there is still the option of the BH adopting the OC. That makes it legal all the way around with no fear of OM interferring in the future.

Ongoing C with OM would be the deal breaker for me. I stand firm on my boundary of NC for life with the xOP. C is how OC #2 becomes a possibility.

an adoption would require OM to sign child over...which would require telling him the truth.

IMHO, telling the truth is always the best option. To not do is sinful and could very well lead to problems down the road.

Agreed, for the obvious reason that the child is not an outsider to the mother...she helped make him and will carry him.

MEDC:

Not necessarily. It depends on where they live.

Larry

I don't think so...not for adoption. The BH is considered to be the parent in some places...but to take the step of actually adopting...I am pretty sure that the father will need to sign off.

I think you are correct, but it is another option.

I believe that in most states, if not all, once the husband (BH in this case) signs the birth certificate, he's legally the father. I was advised to avoid signing the certificate until after paternity was confirmed.

Like an idiot, I didn't. I was lucky.

http://www.adoptionservices.org/birth_mother/birth_father_rights.htm

I'd like to know the percentage of OM who are married, yet still try to gain at least partial custody of an OC.

My guess is very, very few, as in it almost never happens.

My guess is OMW will not want the child in her life.

I have to admit that I am amazed at the hypocrisy of the MB Community with respect to this issue. Almost universally, we hear over and over again that the OMW has a right to know what is going on in her life, and now we have a fairly large segment advocating "Lying by Ommission" about this child's paternity.

Which is it ... are we for Openess & Honesty or are we advocating the same behaviors of deceit, where waywards thought it best to conceal facts from us for our own good, that caused us to find ourselves here originally?

Are we just open and honest when it suits our purpose? ... or is this just situational ethics at its best/worst!

I'm only really concerned about honesty under my own roof...between me, my W, and my kids. The rest of the world can kiss my butt.

If my daughter had been OM's and I didn't want to tell him or OMW, I wouldn't have. I owe him nothing but a bullet between the eyes. I certainly don't owe him or his W the truth.

If you're looking for honesty in general, you're on the wrong planet.

I think it's that, MyRev.

I will offer up that continuing contact with the OW for pick up and drop offs has been pure hell, and I wouldn't wish it on...well..anyone...

Wow MyRev... I hate to admit it, but I agree. Just because it's going to be HARD to tell doesn't make it right NOT to tell.

Sheesh, what a mess.

OUCH!!!!!

Well put, if a bit harsh. I must admit that I was in favor of telling it all to OMW (and OM) but decided that it was NOT up to me to tell RB that and just leave it up to him. OTOH, issues with the OC take precendence over otherwise cast-in-stone MB principles as may apply here, IMHO, which leads me right back to, it is up to RB and his WW to decide.

Larry

The best advice you have received in this entire thread is to consult a lawyer. I don't know what state you live in, but in many states the BH has a limited window to contest paternity. Absent any action by you, you will legally be the father of this child. Speak to a lawyer. Find our what you need to do to prevent yourself from being the father of this child unless you want to be. You can always back off later, but depending on the laws of your state, you may need to move quickly to prevent paying CS for the next 18 years.

Thank you for saying that Myrev. Between hiding behind the skirts of the law and flat out lies I was beginning to wonder the same.

Thanks for putting it in perspective.

I would only tell for two reasons:

1. To try and take money from him, whether I needed it or not.

2. To try to hurt him and cause chaos and misery in his home.

Once my [censored] was covered legally, I'd do just that.

Give him and his family the truth, and shatter his life at the same time. It's a two-fer.

Warning long post!

Well, I thought I would post a quick update and get some feedback on what we have decided at this point. I am overwhelmed at the number of responses since my last post and I promise I will read every one of them tonight when I get some time alone.

First, I just asked her to let me share my feelings about everything w/o interruption and promised to give her time to respond later. I then tried to describe the hurt I have felt since d-day and what it felt like to have my world shattered again just when I thought we were making some progress. I told her that while I certainly accepted my responsibility in letting our marriage deteriorate to the point it had gotten to, that I would under no circumstances ever take any responsibility for HER decision to destroy 21 years of marriage for some fling.

I then told her that at this point, that I was willing to commit to working on our marriage with her under these conditions, which are non-negotiable.

1. That she take 100% responsibility for her destructive actions. This includes apologizing sincerely and frequently for as long as I need it to heal, and telling the kids exactly what she has done to their family including this pregnancy since DD19 already knows and apologizing to them. The kids know what happened, but they haven’t heard it from her mouth.
2. That she agree to start marriage and individual counseling immediately with the counselor of my choice. I have already found 2 marriage friendly counselors in our local area who advocate MB principles.
3. That she be willing to openly consider all options in our situation, excluding abortion, and that she make no decisions until we both agree to it.
4. That at no point was she to inform OM of her pregnancy unless we both agreed to it based on the option we choose and that if at some point WE decided to inform him that I would do the informing as she was to have NC for LIFE.
5. That she be willing to answer all of my questions about her affair with complete honesty and that she be willing to take a polygraph if I should choose. I told her that I would be completely honest with her concerning my feelings and where we are at if she would simply give me the courtesy to do the same.
6. That I needed to see her 100% commitment to recovering this marriage. This includes reading both SAA and HNHN and openly discussing the concepts in these books with me at least once a week until we complete both books.
7. That she allow me to share our situation with the members of our weekly Bible study group so that I can have their emotional support in the coming months. These couples are our closest friends and I really feel like I need them during this time. I also think that they can be a real resource for WW. I do plan on going on Friday to check to see if my V has somehow reversed before we tell the kids or our Bible study group about the pregnancy.

After I finished, I told her that I still loved her. That I always had and that I always would regardless of how this all came out. But, that at this time all that I can promise her is that I will give this everything that I’ve got. I can’t promise her that at some point all of this won’t become too big for me to handle.

She agreed to all of the conditions and continuously apologized for all of this. She said she knows that this is all her fault and that she is just angry with herself for allowing OM to use her like he did. She did tell me that her friend from work put her in contact with the other 2 women this guy had victimized and they told her a very similar story to what she had experienced. She realizes that OM is a player and that she got played. She also agreed to sit down and answer all of my questions tomorrow night. I offered to write them down this evening and give her all day tomorrow to think about them.

I don’t know if this is progress, but it is a start. I still don’t know what I’m going to do. All I know at this point is that I have to deal with things one issue at a time because the entire situation is just too big to tackle all at once.

By the way, I guess as kind of a peace offering, WW bought me 2 tickets for the local 1st showing of Indiana Jones. She told me it was okay if I wanted to take a friend, but that she would really like to go w/ me if I was okay with that. I think it may actually be good for us to just go do something fun together and forget all of this for one evening.

You are an amazingly strong and composed BH, RB. Please add to your list the need to consult a family law atty. You need to protect yourself and your family.

God bless you!

I will also say that my kids know (my bio kids) as well as my family and they are all I care about.

If anyone else has issues with the begetting of my non-bio kids they can cheerfully join the others in line to kiss Krazy's tushie.

Larry posted earlier (I think it was Larry) about the issues that may arise in "taking it to the grave."

There are hurts, at first, with having OCs. I will not lie. It hurt like the devil that the children weren't mine. It still aches that I must share them with someone that doesn't deserve them at all (contact). The first time we took the OC out, she was asleep in her carrier and a waitress cooed over her. I could've been swallowed whole by the earth at that moment. I didn't know what to say or how to react.

But I will say that now, every time anyone compliments me on the kids I cheerfully say "THANK YOU! I'm growing them myself!" Because it's true. Their health and wellbeing are in MY direct care. I know what's going into their little bodies and what's being taught to their little minds. So the state and health and happiness of them is JUST AS MUCH MINE as it is genetics.

JUST.

AS.

MUCH.

And doctors know that dna is not always at one's fingertips. People pass away, families move away...it is not so uncommon to NOT know your family's biological histories.

Sounds like you've got things under control, as well as they can be for now. Good for you. I sincerely hope this turns out for the best.

This kinda bothered me though:


Was this recently? I hope not. She should not be talking to or ABOUT OM to anyone else except you or your counselor. No contact means no indirect contact as well. Talking about him and his history to others feeds the drama. Oh, and your wife wasn't/isn't a victim. She could have said no.

RB



Larry

RB,

You sound like a very good man.

RB65,

You are amazing.

I second that.

I know for 6 months, I was out of my mind. I could just barely hold the facade together long enough to get through a work day...then I would go home and fall apart. Sometimes I wouldn't make it that far. Thank goodness for tinted windows. Even now, those 6 months are a blur, like a half-forgotten movie I wasn't even involved in.

I would imagine that RB is going through something similar, as we all have. He appears to be handling it masterfully.

Good luck to you, RB. None of us deserve this.

Not amazing, just hanging on for dear life by a thread.

About contact with coworker, this was about a week after d-day. I actually think it was a good eye opener for her to find out that she wasn't special, she was just the flavor of the month.

Well, I'm off for a little run to help clear my head before we have to take DD12 to dance class and then out to dinner.

We'll be the judge of that!

Enjoy your evening!

Krazy,
Yu are exactly right. I've never been one to show my emotions too much. I tend to keep things to myself. But, even if it sounds like I'm doing okay, I am still struggling with everything 24/7. It will proably be a long time before this starts to get any easier.

RB...

What a picture of "Grace Under Fire" you are...WOW...AMAZING GRACE...

I am humbled by you...

I'll be praying for you and your family!

Mrs. W

RB,

My goodness, so much input going on here!

And the moderators threatening to shut down the rowdy crowd.

Those 7 points are so spot on, you sound like a very mature MB VET rather than a new arrival.

With your wife's acceptance with all of them, you are back on your way to rebuilding your M.

As far as the OC goes, whatever decision you both reach will be the right one. GOD BLESS YOU BOTH.

Now on a different note:

""She did tell me that her friend from work put her in contact with the other 2 women this guy had victimized and they told her a very similar story to what she had experienced.""

Because this OM was her boss in the company and there are two other woman victimized too, a sexual harassment lawsuit against the company would set everyone up very comfortably. This could be an option...I'm just saying!

Stay strong.

kirk

LOTS of pain nerves in the pocketbook!! If you're gonna kick 'em, aim for where it hurts...

Why should performances of The Nutcracker be limited to Christmas?

Just to add something concerning:

""Claiming Mary was a WW just because Jesus was supposedly conceived without man is not a fact, it is inaccurate, and it is offensive to many Christians.""

This reminded me of reading "The Last Temptation of Christ" by Nicholas Kazantzakis, from which Martin Scorcese made the movie.

In the beginning of the book, Joseph had a very hard time with Mary's pregnancy, thinking he was a BH.

The book was "offensive to many Christians" too, as was the movie. But the book was good and very powerful.

kirk

RB65,

I'll add my two cents although I realize you have ben hit with a barrage of posts.

Before my w and I were exclusive, and before our M, my W was date raped by what was a very good friend to both of us. The resulting rape resulted in my w becoming pregnant by this OM.

My W decided to leave for the west coast to be with her estranged father, and ultimately give birth to this OM's child.

It was a strange time for me as I could not understand this position, but she came back after the birth and never told me anything that had happened.

About two years into our M, my W finally told me the truth of why she had moved 3 thousand miles away. She gave bith to this child and put her up for adoption.

Upon learning this, I offered to go find the child and adopt her as my own, assuming she had not already been adopted. My w refused as she never told OM about the child because she did not want him in our lives, ever again.

As I sit here I'm looking out my back window looking at out neighbors young children bouncing up and down on a trampoline and gigling with child like laugter. I wished so many time over the decades of our M that I could have been the paternal father to this innocent child of my W's rape.

It's hard to sit back 40 years later and say I colda, shoulda, woulda.

My eyes well up just contemplating all this. That happens when you get older, you tend to look back instead of forward. Who looks forward to old age .?

My point in all of this, is that child was half of my W's. And with the deep abiding love I've had for here all of my life, HALF wouold hav been more than good enough for me. It would have made me ecstatic!!

Take time to mediate with God, ask him for the next right thing to do. He will not deny you in your time of crisis.

Prayers going up for you tonight!!

All blessings,
Jerry

RB,

I have been following your post since the first day you brought your broken heart and anger to this forum. You are a giant of a man! I could barely work for weeks after D-day. Only God got me through.

Jerry,

Yours is a wonderful, introspective viewpoint for RB. thanks for sharing. I am always amazed at the wisdom and resilience of most people on these forums.

Say

I agree 1000%. Your wife is a very fortunate woman.

Shine

What you were willing to do for your wife was admirable. Though you were not faced with the same situation as runnerboy. It is easier to come to terms with you wanting to raise your wife's OC. Shine you had, and this in no way diminishes that your wife became pregnant from date rape. You did not have to face her betraying you.

Runnerboy's WW's pregnancy is due to her affair. Your wife did nothing to embarrass you. She unfortunately made a bade decision on who to date.

The Road,
I undertand what you are saying, however, in your own words:
.

We all make bad decisions in life, and the we have to find a way to live with the consequences.

I'm just saying that forty years later, I wish i coulda....

All blessings,
Jerry

Wow, I can't read this thread fast enough to keep up with the posts.

I just want to add that as a female, I feel very sad for your wife. I can only imagine what she too must be going through at this point in time. I can't help it, but I just feel sorry for the WS's too sometimes. To know what devastation you have caused must be a heavy burden to carry.

She has just committed the most horrific mistake of her life and has hurt the people that she will find that she loves the most. And now the hurt will extend far beyond her own family, and extend as far into the future as she lives. Tragic.

Have you thought about this: perhaps OM and OMW would want the child. Just a thought.

RB,

You are a man of great strength and compassion. I wish you the best in your situation, whatever happens.

As for getting through this time, I would STRONGLY recommend some antidepressants until at least the birth of the child. Trust me, they can be extremely helpful allowing you to function normally through all of this pain.

Also, the next thing you need to do is call up a family attorney and know your rights. You don't want this OM to be able to get involved in your life at all, and it would be nice to get some money out of him as well and hit him where it hurts.

Rb65~

My heart literally aches, and I have a knot in my stomach, reading about your situation. It's been over 5 years for my dh and me, and yet it never gets any easier for me to hear of another couple going through this. My heart goes out to you and your children as the unwitting innocents in this mess, and even though it's 100% of her own wrongdoing-- my heart also goes out to your wife. Being where I've been, I can't help but have deep empathy for her.

I'm a fww. My 7 mo affair resulted in a P when I was a couple years younger than your wife, so I know the double whammy of an OC, and later in life P. Our dear com were in their mid-late teens at the time. My dh and I are raising my oc, as our child. It was completely, unequivocally his decision.

I love your list, and admire your strength, and ability to have a clear mind to think of such wise requests, in the midst of your turmoil!

I think you are smart not to make any rash decisions, and thankfully, because abortion is not an option for you-- time is on your side.

I think you are extremely wise not to run out and tell om about oc right away. Depending on the path you decide to take, regarding the oc, the time may come for that, but it's a very good, sound decision to keep quiet for awhile.

It's good to give yourself that breathing space to aid you in deciding what is best for you, your M, your com, and oc.

I urge you to visit with a family law attorney, to get some good solid information about adoption, and hopefully some good references for adoption agencies, and also to find out all the ins and outs on what it would mean, should you choose to raise the oc as your own.

Further rb, IF you were to begin to lean toward raising this oc as your own, PLEASE don't let anyone ever even intimate you'd be a doormat, cuckolded, wimp, weak, or any of the other garden variety insults that tend to get thrown around by some people who are completely clueless. I always want to say to these people, (so I guess I will now, lol)---- Call me a slut, whore, stupid wench who got her cake and ate it too-- I can take it, it's okay-- it ~was~ all true, but don't make ridiculous, thoughtless assumptions about my dh who is a shining example of a man and human being.

That said though, rb65, you already are a giant of a man, as saynomore said!! You want to attempt to save your marriage, and keep your family whole-- with what you're facing-- that is amazing!!!! I don't want you or anyone else to think I'd think less of you, (or any other man for that matter, faced with a ww w/ oc), if you chose not to raise the oc as your own. I understand the enormity of such a thing, this is probably not doable for many to most people, and there is absolutely, NO SHAME in that!!!

If you don't think you can raise this child as your own, and love him/her with all your heart, unconditionally, it's best you go the adoption route.

Though again, this is where time comes in handy, because given time, and as your wife shows true remorse,( I pray), you may very well find yourself falling in love with this child, even though at this moment the thought of him/her might understandably disgust you. I'm here to tell you it CAN and HAS happened. With some bhs, it happened while baby was still inutero, with some it took till the day the baby was born, while others... weeks after the birth.

I hope I'm not out of bounds here, and hope this lines up with MB principles given this situation, but in a decision so big as this, I believe since you want to recover with your wife, it is very important you POJA this decision about oc. Imo, true and lasting recovery will not happen if either one forces the other's hand, and I think even a compromise will harm the M. You both need to be as enthusiastic as possible with such an overwhelmingly big, life altering decision.


rb65, I don't know if "K" still posts, but he would be an awesome resource for you, as someone who has been in your shoes. His story is truly inspirational, and he can give you a lot of no nonsense, common sense information about your situation. He's also among the select group of people around here that I consider hugely versed in marriage building. Besides, I think what other bhs with ww/oc have to say to you would carry more weight than what I have to say to you as a fww w/ oc.


I want to say one more thing to the 'doubters' on this board.... I invite anyone here on this board who finds such a situation as mine unfathomable, to come visit in my home for even one evening, to watch the interaction between my dh and my oc/our dc. I can absolutely guarantee with complete certainty-- every witness would see the genuine, unabashed love of a father for his son. It's so blatant, there would be no doubt in your mind!

Since my dh doesn't post, people here have always only had my word, on how things have turned out for us. I so wish he'd post, but I bet there would still be doubters, and I know why.... because it's so unbelievable!! It's something that goes so far against human nature.

Anyway, rb65, I'm sorry... I didn't intend to make this so long winded, and I'm also sorry if I in anyway offended you with my obvious biased bent on this situation. It's hard for me not to be so hopeful and pro-raising oc as your own, because it has worked beautifully for us. Rest assured, you will get nothing but support and admiration from me if you go the adoption route. I offered adoption to my dh as well.

Any questions for me, fire away. There's certainly more involved, than what I even described here.

Be well, and take good care of yourself.

~ad

edit: double post... because I really SUCK at posting/editing on the new format!

Also, take the good advice of whoever it was who said to go to a doctor get yourself re-checked. I know someone whose vasectomy "gave out" about the same length of time after the procedure as you are from yours. There were some very tense times between him and his wife before he found out that he was, indeed, the father. The return of male fertility after sterlization is not likely 10 years down the pike, but it is not impossible either. You can eliminate this particular question now, if you choose.

RB,

This is Tigger, another FWW who had an OC and whose BH is raising the child as ours. In our sitch, we are now 8 years(Holy Cow!!!! That's a long time now!!!!) past D-day. My H also had the big V done when our now 15 yo dd was about 2. So, here's pretty much how we handled it. In the state where we lived at time of conception and birth, it is a law that if any man doesn't file paternity w/in 90 days of possible due date, then said man cannot claim any paternity, UNLESS the H chooses to contest paternity. We, for reasons of safety and repairing our M, never told xom of pregnancy, and to the best of our knowledge, he has never known. Our children don't know, but they may figure it out some day. Do I feel we are lying, well, no, because my DH is and will be the only father and daddy our dear OC ever knows. xom was violent and threatened my H's life on D-day. We also found out a week or 2 after D-day of pregnancy.

I will see if there is any way to look WAY back for our posts when we first began here. My H doesn't post anymore, but his "call name" was sailorman59. You have received much the same advice we did back then. I agree with your list, and the added comment of talk to an attorney or at least find out what the state statues are for your situation. Don't make any final decisions right now, and work on your M. I, having already gone through giving up a child for adoption when I was 18 and H was 17, was willing to do anything, including giving child up for adoption, but am happy now that H didn't feel we could go through that again. It's not an easy decision to make, no matter what the situation was that caused the pregnancy in the first place.

I wish I had more time, but I need to get ready for Wed night church. I will check back soon.

Nice posts from FWW w/OC - It's nice to see such admiration for their husbands in the midst of incredibly difficult situation for most men.

Autumn - its a shame your spouse does not post. There may be much to learn from such a man.

RB - I think you are one amazing guy to formulate such a compassionate plan. Your wife is probably in a state of pure self loathing and you took the high road. I cannot even comprehend the pain.

Hope this link works. This is one of my very first posts way back in 2000.

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubb...;Main=74557&Number=789575#Post789575

runnerboy, mind if i call you rb? sorry to read you are in this difficult spot. i was in your exact shoes about 7 years back. i am sure my story is in the archives somewhere if you are interested.

although i have not read every post word for word (it would take me a week and this thread would be 6 pages longer and i would need another week . anyhow you get the picture . i read slooooow.
but i have read enough that i think i have a grasp of the situation. about every other page.

1st let me say to all that even though you are all entitled to your opinions it would be much more helpful if they were expressed in a respectfull manner.

i can see what what both sides of this conversation sre saying and believe me i have felt both opinions ( could never raise another mans child and yes i can make it work)

truth be told i AM RAISING OUR OC. her name is grace and she is a beautiful 6 yo that now i couldn't imagine not being in my life. she has enriched my life more then i can say and taught me things about myself that i never would have discovered without her in it.

that being said there were some very hard and painful things that i had to get past. and i can tell you that i have seen some real s#!t in my days on this earth.

point being it is possible to have a healthy, loving marriage again with this baby in it.

point 2 or 3 or 4 , oh hell let's call it 7. you and your w do not have to make any immediate decisions. there is time. it seems you and her have come to a good start with her agreeing to your terms for reconsiliation.

i don't get to the computer very often but will try and keep up.

Well I just want to say how sorry I am for what you are going thru. My brother had a child at your age and it is a very hard time for him and his wife due to their age.

I could never keep a child from an affair. First of all the OM should have to pay for the child and I would not want him in my life.

I hate to say this but if you keep the child the worst possible thing that happened to you is that you caught her in the act. What happens to a lot of men is the WW would just not tell you and you would go for years and maybe never find out that your child is not yours. On the other hand at least you know and will at least go into the rest of your life with your eyes open.

I do not believe in abortion either so I want to say I wish you the best in whatever you choose to do. Just know what you are getting into and maybe even see a lawyer so you know your rights and responsibilities. I hope everything works out the best for you. I am sure your head is spinning. I will say a prayer for you.

RB,

Just a few thoughts. First let me admit to a bias. I have always considered K's story on of the more remarkable on here, because he came to see his W preg. by OM to be an OPPORTUNITY. When I came here over 9 years ago, I could not believe it.

I will also tell you of the top people I respect on this site, AD, Tigger, and Pops are on my short list. What these folks have done from both sides of this situation is remarkable. Add Kimmy to this and you have a whole bunch of solid folks that tell you like it is from both sides of this issue.

It occured to me that the deciding factor is NOT:

1. Your masculinity.

2. Your W's pregnancy.

3. Your children.

4. Your feelings at this point.

My opinion for what it is worth is that the deciding factor is more simple. It is how you view a future with your W. Do you see her being a good W? Do you see her being a good mother? Do you see the possibilities in your relationship with your W, that are positive? What can the two of you decide that might make you a happier man?

yes I know the images are in your head. Yes I know that the odds of this child being yours are small. But, this is really about your future and the future you see with your W.

RB, if you decide to stay, if you decide to rear this new child, your marriage starts anew. You need to realizethis.

If you look at K, Pops, AD, Kimmy, Tigger, the one constant is that their marriage is something they value today. It is really easy to love children, that is their ace-in-the-hole. Their main defense is they are so darned lovable.

So to me it is about you and your W deciding on what your marriage will be like in the future, and the two of you committing to it. Focus on that in your decision making would be my counsel to you, don't focus on the pain, the images, and the deceit.

I will also say for a poster that mentioned that you having a child at your age puts a strain on a marriage. My youngest was born when I was 42. He is almost out of college now. Yes, my W and I missed a few things, but we gained alot, and frankly being more mature made rearing this last one easier in many ways.
So my advice ($0.02) is focus on the marriage of the future.

I think it will make it easier for both you and your w to address this heartbreaking mess.

I hope something I have said is of help to you.

God Bless,

JL

My grandmother became pregnant with my mom when she was 44 years old. In 1912, that was OLD! Her husband was an unfaithful drunk; her only other child was already a teenager. She did NOT want the baby, and although she didn't believe in abortion, she did everything she could think of to cause a miscarriage. She nearly worked herself to death that summer, hoping for a spontaneous abortion, but none of it worked and my mother was born anyway. She grew up to be a missionary teacher, and lived 89 years old of faithful Christian devotion.

I know the circumstances aren't the same as yours, but I think my point is that even an unwanted, unexpected child can be used by God as a person of immense blessing to family, and to others as well.

I finally had time last night to sit and read all of the responses to this thread. I want you all to know that I appreciate every response and your willingness to help. Some I agreed with and some I didn’t, but all helped me gain perspective on our situation. I know that we are only just beginning our journey to recovery and that there are many decisions yet to be made. I am sure I will be here often to seek advice and perspective.

I won’t be around much until after the holiday. I have a busy day today wrapping up things in the office so I can enjoy the 4 day weekend. I hope to just have a long relaxing weekend with my family and avoid relationship talk until next week. WW and I talked a little last night and both decided that we needed a few days to focus on the kids and to just enjoy being together as a family. So that’s the plan this weekend. I think we could all use a little distraction.

We are preparing for our annual Memorial Day barbecue so we should be plenty busy. We live on a lake and we always have our families and friends over on Saturday before Memorial Day for a day of eating and fun on the lake. Everyone that has a boat or Jet-Ski brings it and we just have a ball and for some of us we forget how old we are until the muscle pains of Sunday morning remind us. I always take Friday and the whole family pitches in to get everything ready. It looks like it’s going to be a beautiful weekend.

On a sad note, I saw today where one of my favorite Christian artists, Steve Curtis Chapman, lost his 5 year old daughter yesterday when her older brother, driving an SUV, hit her in the family’s driveway. It kind of puts all of my problems in perspective. Things could be so much worse. My prayers go out to the Chapman family.

rb you are so right

As much as we struggle with our own personal crisis' when you look at the grand picture we are still lucky. an event that took place shortly after my d-day was 9/11. it really helped me put things into perspective.

all our prayers go out to the Chapman family. and to you and your family wishing you a peaceful weekend of laughter and memories.

Have a good weekend, RB65.

You seem like a VERY intelligent guy. You'll do what's right for you. Don't let anyone blow sunshine up your ___ because they are the one-in-a-million exception to the rule. Don't let a sourpuss like me affect you, either.

God makes that way on purpose so you don't kill them for shaving the cat or for playing Ceiling Fan Baseball in the dining room.

That was a wonderful post JL.

AD and Tigger, thank you SO much. You are as much blesssings to your husbands as they are to you.

Runner, have a lovely weekend full of joyous memories.

runnerboy I am so sorry to find you in this position. Like Autumn Day, Tigger and pops I am years beyond where your sitting now. It's been so long I forgot my ID for this forum and had to create a new one. I am a FWW and I have twin OC. Like you and your wife I didn't believe in abortion. I believed that from a young age that there is always another way. BUT when I found myself in that position I felt there was no other way out. I had 3 COM from the ages of 7-10. How could I be pregnant for 9 months and just give up their baby brother or sister. How could I be a single mother with 4 (didn't know it was twins then) kids, especially having a newborn? So I found myself feeling this was a helpless situation. I called and made an appointment for an abortion. Luckily in my state it is a two part process and there has to be so many days between the appointments. So I went to the first appointment which I barely remember because I cried through most of it. But it was more of an info appointment and taking blood. I made the appointment for the actual procedure. I had my H take the day off work so he could take care of the kids. Luckily in that time my H could see a different way than me and started talking with me about it. I had doubts our marriage could survive this. I had even bigger doubts that he could love someone else's child. Even once we decided to go through with the pregnancy....he seemed removed from the pregnancy. He did go to the ultrasound appointment etc. But it just wasn't like the other pregnancies. So being very pregnant I was scared that we could get through this. Once the twins were actually here I seen with my own eyes how he was more than capable of loving these babies. I've seen it everyday for almost 6 years now. Since I had to have a c-section and was in recovery he took over from the second they came out. I'm not sure how easy it was for him to bond with them...but I do know he put himself out there from the start. He was holding them...even slept with them both on the little couch at the hospital. Like Autumn day said...you just have to be in the presence of my H and the twins for a very short time to realize his love is so genuine and pure for these kids. I would even go as far as saying he is a better parent to them from when our COM were their age. He has more patients, he takes the time out to roll on the floor with them even when he is tired from working all day. I think that goes with being a 2nd go around parent and being older and knowing how these years go by so fast. We were young 20's when we had our COM so now we are older and have grown alot.


I can tell you it also isn't easy for your wife. I know for me it was not easy having my belly start sticking out and everyone around me knowing it wasn't my husbands child. Then having the babies. I wouldn't call it a happy and joyous time for me either.

My COM didn't learn that the twins were not my H until the twins were a couple of years old. By then my oldest a son, he took it the hardest. I think because he knew the whole dynamics of what that really meant. My other two took it alot better being about 10, 12 years old about the time.

I think I am one of the FWW that we seeked CS from MM. Having 3 COM and then having twins (where I had to quit working) we just couldn't make it without my income and bringing two more children into the world. But if you can financially handle the responsibilty I wouldn't go my route. Even with getting CS my H thinks MM got off too easy. He just said that a couple of weeks ago. I wish he would of been able to elaborate on why he thinks that.

Reading your posts I know you will make the best decision for your family.

VERY wise counsel ... and worth repeating, again!!!

I have just had a great early/long lunch, one of the perks of working for yourself. WW just took me to see the new Indiana Jones movie. I know it’s a little cheesy, but I love these movies. It makes me feel like a kid again. It’s not the best of the series, but it’s a fun couple of hours. There were times when I would never think of sneaking away from work to see a movie, but it’s just another way to show WW that she is a priority.

It’s a little hard to go do fun things with her because I know that we still have so many issues to deal with and can only hope that we will be able to repair the damage. I feel like it’s a lie sometimes like maybe I’m building up a false sense of hope for both of us. But, it also takes me back to a time when we were best friends and I do hope that we can get there again. I have to admit, though, that it also makes me a little angry that she was so quick to just throw everything away. When do the emotions quit bouncing all over the place.

It does help me keep going when she acknowledges the damage she has done. When she dropped me off back at the office she reached over and grabbed my hand and told me that she was so sorry for all the hurt she has caused and that she is very grateful that I am even willing to give her a chance to make this right. I told her that she’s off to a good start and that I appreciate her efforts. But, like I told her a couple of days ago, I can’t promise her that this will all work out. I can only promise her that if she does all of the things we’ve talked about that I will give it my all. I really believe that she is trying her best, but even when she does things that I told her I needed to be able to heal, it just doesn’t seem to be enough. Maybe it will get better over time. I guess we’ll see.

RB,

It's so fresh still.... give yourself kudos for how far you have come in only a month.

Enjoy those small moments. How wonderful that the 2 of you had that time together today.

You will be in our thoughts this weekend.

Take care!

RB,

"it just doesn’t seem to be enough. Maybe it will get better over time. I guess we’ll see."

Right now, knowing what you have just been through, it is NOT enough, because you are numb and in shock.

It DOES get better...well the pain, anger, loss, and grief become less as the wound heals over time.

It looks like with your attitude, your family's support, and your wife's commitment the healing process will be much faster.

ENJOY your 4 day weekend. (4 days?? wow )

kirk

Thanks for taking the time to post to me. There is a lot of wisdom in your story.

I know that we have basically 2 options. Those being adoption or raising the baby ourselves. While adoption would be the easiest thing for me, I worry about the impact that will have on my other 3 kids. They are much older than yours and will know from the beginning that the baby is not mine. But, I worry about the emotional damage to them of seeing their 1/2 brother or sister given up for adoption. I also worry about what it will do to my wife. I am coming to realize that part of the price of saving my marriage may be that I have to come to terms with raising OC. I still have a lot of soul searching left to decide if I'm up to this challenge and if I will be able to do this w/o lingering resentment for the child or my wife. I know that if this had happened 15 years ago, that it would have been a deal breaker for me. But, at this point I have over 23 yrs of my life invested in this relationship and the overwhelming majority of those years have been good. I know that I couldn't live with myself if I didn't do everything in my power to rebuild this marriage.

It does me a lot of good, to hear about success stories like yours. It has also been good to hear about the stories that don't end so well. I want to go into this with both eyes open.

Working towards recovery is like eating an elephant.

The only way to do it is one bite at a time.

RB:

I suggest you consider ending the marriage. Don't do it now----at this time you have too much to think about. AT this time considering divorce is unthinkable.

However, in 2-3 years all the turmoil will be gone and you will be able to think. I would not adopt the child as this will tie you down and you may not be able to maneuver when the dust settles in 2-3 years.

You are still young and can have a new life.

Don't get me wrong. Saving the marriage as I did is a beautiful thing, but I wonder about the issue of a OM's child reminding you of the affair on a daily basis.

RB65,

I don't have older kids, so I'm probably talking out of my posterior, but after things settle down a little and the impact of what has happened has sunk in, what about a sit-down family meeting where all of the cards are on the table?

Assuming R is going well at the time, of course. Maybe even if it isn't.

My parents cheated on each other and divorced when I was 10. I knew about both affairs. I knew about my mother's A before my dad found out, because she tried integrating me into OM's family while he was still married.

"Try to get along with them...they might be your brothers someday."

I then found out about my dad's A because my mom took me along on "spying trips". We found his car at OW's home.

If they had sat me down and had an honest, open discussion about what had happened and why, it would've helped a great deal, even though it ended in divorce.

As it was, neither of them has ever expressed any remorse. No remorse about cheating, no remorse about ruining our (my) family. Not once. My father is dead now, and my mother is as pig-headed as they come. There will never be any admission of wrongdoing on her end. Closure simply isn't going to happen.

As a result, I very nearly despise both of my parents. I see them as weak, immoral, selfish, dishonest...just two bad people who had no business ever having a child. My mother would take a bullet for me, but I don't care. I get upset, aggitated, and flat-out pi$$ed off just being in her presence. This has increased significantly since my own d-day.

You really might give it some thought. I would guess that your kids are pretty sharp, based on their father's posts here. I'll bet they can handle it if it's approached properly.

In my own situation, NOT talking about it caused FAR more negative feelings than discussing it openly.

Maybe you already said you would...this thread is huge.

RB - My sons have a sister who they didn't know for almost 20 years. Their father had an affair, and there was an OC who was in our life for her first 8 years. Then her mom moved across the country with her and we couldn't find her.

My sons always knew they had a sister. One was 5 and the other 2 when we lost her. For years they talked about her, where she might be and reuniting with her.

Last year she contacted them through myspace. Since then, she has flown here several times and they have flown to see her. They keep in DAILY contact and are like 3 peas in a pod. It is very uncanny how much alike half siblings are.

rb,
You will ultimately have to make your own choices.

These " kick her [censored] to the curb" statements are being made by BS's who had the the same choice as you. Yet they stayed in their M's and now advise you to leave.

Make your own choice, RB, just as they once did.

Bitterness is an ugly bedfellow.

In time, when the numbness wears off, you will also have to drink from your cup of bitterness.

This isn't going to be a cake walk. It never is.

All blessings,
Jerry

Krazy,

Best

Post

I've

Seen

Yet.


My kids, although they are not as old as RBs know that my OCs have a different mommy. Both daddy and (this) mommy talk about it. They know that daddy made a terrible mistake, but is very sorry and will never do it again (age appropriate, of course).

Believer, your kids and your story is the BEST IN THE WHOLE WORLD. You all are so precious to the world.

In the midst of all the plan a-ing, my niece that is only a few months older than my oldest daughter put two and two together and asked my sil about her uncle having the littles with a different mommy than me. My poor sil then had to say, yes, indeed he does have children with a different mommy than Aunt Kim. Imagine her horror and ours when we heard my niece's reaction to what her beloved uncle did, "THEN THAT MEANS UNCLE COMMITTED ADULTRY!"

My husband could've crawled into a hole.

Me? I wanted to beat him with a flip flop.

But my point is that like the ripples caused by skipping rocks, or the butterfly effect on tsunamis, these waywards have no idea how much or how far their actions reach.

It is not an excuse. It's a fact.

Now they HAVE to live with their actions, and while they are hurting most, they MUST ease the pain they've caused others too. There truly is no rest for the wicked right now.

Your wife's actions will tell you what you need to do.

Do not baby her, but also remember where you keep your compassion.

My WW didn't even have intercourse w/ OM much less an OC, but I still am reminded of the affair on a daily basis. I don't think he would be able to forget it with or without the OC. As for me, I forget all about the affair when my FWW is trying hard at our relationship and things are good. I only think of her A when things aren't so hot, and then I feel a little resentment that she's not doing her part even though I stood by her during her A. I think if RB's WW fully commits to the M, really works hard at meeting his ENs, and makes RB happy, I don't think an OC would be something he couldn't get past. I think it is all up to RB's WW as to how she handles the situation.

Also, if you are still torn between raising OC and adoption, remember there is still a third option in between - open adoption. Your WW wouldn't be totally abondoning the child, your children can still visit their half-sibling, and you wouldn't have to raise it either.

RB, take it one day at a time. Recovery from an affair is hard, recovering from an affair that produced a child is staggering. Yet, here I am and here are many others posting to you with both success and failures. There are some of the most amazing people and posts on this thread. You are truly blessed my friend to have found this site as early as you did. Enjoy your weekend and keep in mind that triggers can come out of nowhere. Just so you know you are normal. We don't call this a rollercoaster for nuttin'.

Krazy, I am very sorry for the legacy your parents left you. My mom left my dad for the OM. No explanations, no apologies and I was too young to put 2 and 2 together. Many years later with the help of my sisters I understand what happened. It still hurts but my mom now has Alzheimers so i will never see an apology from her. I ok with that and accept it.

JL, awesome post. Tigger, AD et al thank you for sharing your successes with RB.

RB, God's blessings on you and your family.

Runnerboy,

"I told her that she’s off to a good start and that I appreciate her efforts. But, like I told her a couple of days ago, I can’t promise her that this will all work out"

I wish I could remember the name of a BH that posted here or SI. It was awhile back. A year? I can not remember.

He strung his WW around for some time. At least six months maybe it most likely was a year.

He was cautioned to wait the usual six months before he makes a decision whether to recover his marriage. He posted quite often.

But his posts never rang true to me. I could not tell what made me feel that the BH was not being sincere. Not because I did not believe his WW had an affair. I did not make the connection until he announced with much justification that he was divorcing his wife. When a BH announces here that he is divorcing his wife there is sadness anger regret, but not a self righteous declaration. Well at least not at his level, before or since.

There was this theme running through is posts that I did not detect until the end.

As in your quote above he keep putting an escape clause every day that he posted.

Looking back at his posts after the fact the pattern that was developing could be seen. Acting that he was attempting to recover but always found a way to tell us that he was reserving the right to leave.

When this BH felt that he put in the appropriate amount of time for appearance sake he told his WW that had been doing everything to repair the damage that he was through. He wanted a divorce. Sringing along his WW was his way to get revenge on a remorseful WW.

Just the way WW would of dragged on a false recovery with the requisite number of visits to the MC then demand a divorce because things are beyond repair. After she made it appear that she tried to do everything to save the marriage.

You have not done anything to deserve this affair. Do your best to act honorable. I apologize if I am jumping to conclusions but what that BH did has left a bad taste.

TheRoad,

What that BH did was wrong, but he still got the short end of the stick. The WW brought it all on herself.

I can assure you that I have no intentions of doing what that BH did. However, I feel that it's insincere at this point not to let WW know that I still have reservations. I am totally committed to making my marriage work. I will do everything within my power to hold up my end of the bargain. I just need to see that she is as committed as I am. I think that if I see her taking the actions I've requested, I will know that she is totally in this and I will feel much better about our recovery prospects.

In fact, before the pregnancy revelation, I was starting to feel really good about our chances. She seems to be starting to own her actions and take steps to recover our marriage. I just need to process this latest bombshell. I think I've already reconciled in my mind that recovery is likely to involve at a minimum contact with OC in an open adoption and very likely may require me being willing to raise OC in our family.

I am also aware that my children are watching how WW and I handle this. We are teaching them life lessons by our actions. Like most children, they learn most of their knowledge of romantic relationships from what they observe in their parent's relationship. I hope what we are able to teach them includes ownership of our actions, forgiveness, and honesty.

Well, that's enough for today. I hope everyone has a great and safe Memorial Day weekend. Thanks again for everyone's help tis week and for your continues help through the coming months.

well nice to here that you were able to spend some quality time with the w.

i have seen it written that men raising oc's are 1-in-a-million. that certainly makes me feel special BUT the truth of the matter is that i am as far from that 1 as a person could get.

we discussed adoption and i pushed very hard for it. even had someone come out to the house and explain it to my w and i.

my w on the other hand didn't see how she could carry a baby to term and then give it up. what would we tell our small ones? all they new was that we would have given their sister away. what would that do to their feeling of security?

yet i knew that i would not be able to love this child. the quick short answer since i saw my w was struggling with the adoption issue was D. but i didn't want that either.

i was also forced to look at who i was. was i a person that carried a grudge to my grave or did i have the ability to forgive someone. did i want to dwell on the pain and live in the past or find compassion in my heart and move forward.

so i will suggest that you take a good hard look at yourself. only you know who you are and what you can live with.

i will offer the same challenge to anyone willing to see 1st hand. visit my home or take a 5 minute drive with me and oc when i take her to school each morning.

then tell me where the hurt, anger, resentment are.

the answer to your of "does the pain ever go away?" yes it just takes time my friend. and an open heart to the future.

again you need to look inside yourself.

after reading your thoughts here my guess is that you are deeply in love with your w. to even consider working through this tells me that you have a forgiving, compassionate, kind, loyal, heart of a lion.

please don't think that i am telling you which way to lean but i feel i am reading the story of a 1-in-a-million guy.

An open adoption is to tear off the scab and rub salt in it every time you and your WW have contact with the OC.

This why I don't see the difference between raising the OC and having an open adoption. If you can handle the contact with an open adoption then maybe you could handle being a dad to the OC.

Easy for me to say.

RB


They don't, not ever, from what I have seen here and in my own heart. Oh, they decline and some days are not there, but on another day, here they come if less in volume and content.

One thought; no, from what you were saying prior to, your wife was still a bit resistant. I bet she isn't now.

Males want to save women. We like our white horses. And at least for a time, a male on his white horse is a woman's dream, to be cherished till the end of time or the next time he fails to take out the garbage, whichever comes first.

You are in a position to be the man either way you go and nobody should fault you.

Larry

The bolded is the main reason my dh wouldn't hear of adoption. He couldn't do it to our com. I even offered to move away for the last several months of my P, so they wouldn't have to see my growing tummy, and then the adoption might be a smoother transition.

pops & also 4tn-- I either forgot about, or hadn't heard about the very early days after d-day of oc in both of your situations. I didn't realize so many of us considered adoption. I remembered that Tigger and her dh had. I can't recall if K ever said he did. Anyway, I do think adoption is a lot more difficult when there's com, (especially older, more aware com), involved. Like pops said, they only know there was a sibling on the way, and now there's not.

I still think adoption is doable, and a very noble thing to do for those that are able.

btw, great to see a bunch of old friends from the P/C board!

And good ol' JL-- as per usual, you still have such an uncanny way of getting to the heart of the matter. Such insightful words!

rb65~ Your weekend sounds like an absolute blast! My hope is for a relaxing, funfilled, and drama-FREE weekend. All the serious talking can wait, and this time will help recharge your batteries too. Enjoy.......

RB65,

I have not posted in a long time; however, I have to insert my two cents.

We had two children when I was faced with the same situation as you are facing now. For the sake of our other two, we stayed together and raised that daughter as mine. All the children know the story. When they were 18, 16 & 11; their mother left us to "find herself."

I don't know what she found. I think she has been married 4 or 5 times and is once again alone. The kicker is the OC (who is now 38 and a mother of 5) and I love each other as any father and daughter, and I dote on my grandchildren.

Of course, we are all different and have to make our own choices. I just thought I would insert my story so you can understand how it went with me when I raised the OC as my own.

Road:

You bring up some very valid points.

RB should not "string along" his WW. But he is allowed his doubts RIGHT NOW.

What else is going to come to light? What else can RB handle? Where is RB's breaking point?

As Larry states later, RB is saving his WW on the White Horse right now. But if he senses that she is holding on to him for the ride and looking to jump horses, than RB should have his out under those circumstances. Doesn't seem that right now, RB is sensing that in WW.

RB states that WW seems to be getting on board. If SHE is on board, than "stringing Along" by RB is not very likely. And RB doesn't seem like the type to do that. That is why his thread has been as closely followed by so many like it has.

RB should also get in touch directly with the Harleys and start proper counselling. I know that he has contacted MC's locally, but I would still recommend the Harleys. An MB weekend may go a long way to helping the two of them see a path to the future.

LG

I don’t have much time today since I’m at home, but I have a few moments since WW has gone to run some errands. I was pleasantly surprised when I got home last night that WW and the kids had already done all of the work for tomorrows party with the exception of getting the meat marinating which I was able to do in less than 30 min this morning. With everything already done, I took the boat out for a test run before tomorrow and had a couple of hours to just ride and think about everything. When I got home, WW and I sat on the deck and had a great talk.

By the end of the night, I knew in my mind what I had to do and it was confirmed to me again during my devotion time this morning. I don’t want to turn this into a religious thread, but my Christian faith is very important to me and it has gotten me through to this point. I read in the Bible this morning about the Children of Israel crossing the Jordan river and claiming the land God had promised them. Several things stood out to me. First, when they obediently stepped into the river to cross, God parted the water to make a way for them, but, after they crossed, the waters returned preventing them from turning back. Next, I noticed that this was only the first step, because many difficult battles remained. Each battle was different and required different tactics to win. All of this just confirmed to me what I knew I needed to do from last night. We have a lot of battles left to face, but we just have to face them one at a time.

She actually initiated the conversation and told me again how sorry she was and that she would do everything that I had asked her to do plus anything else I needed to get through this. She also thanked me for sticking with her this far. I am just thankful that OM was a total POS and jolted her back to reality very quickly by how he handled things after getting caught. I am so thankful that I haven’t had to deal with a WW that spends months in affair fog. That takes a kind of strength that I can’t even imagine. I am very encouraged by the progress, but I know that there are many battles left to fight. Many tears have been shed in the past 5 weeks and I’m sure there are many more to come. We agreed that we would try to limit relationship talk during the week and set up a time every Friday where we could take a couple of hours to ourselves and deal with all of our issues. I still don’t have all of the answers, but I know that I need to totally commit to saving this marriage and not look back. I think it’s probably time to start referring to my wife as a FWW.

I’m reminded of another Bible verse that has meant a lot to me through the years. It simply says, “ I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me.” I can’t do any of this in my strength, but with His strength, anything is possible.

FYI, I did go in 1st thing this morning and give a sperm sample just to make sure that this baby couldn’t be mine. But, I have come to terms that it’s very likely OM’s. I should know soon. Either way, I am committed to recovery.

Enough of this serious stuff, the rest of this weekend is for fun and relaxation. There’s plenty of time to deal with all of this later. I’m going to enjoy the time with my family and friends and I hope that everyone else does the same.

Happy Memorial Day

RB:



Larry

I'm sorry ... maybe its just me and my perspective, but this doesn't sound like a man who is comfortable with the decision he has made. I sense a man searching for ways to rationalize this to himself, so he can accept and resign himself to this "fate".

Originally, I had a lot of hope for his situation. He was very proactive and successful in his initial actions, and his WW appeared to be coming around quickly, then when the pregnancy was disclosed, you almost sensed his spirit being stripped away. This just appears to be a different rb65 than the one we experienced on D-Day.

As a fellow BH, I just can't help feeling so bad and sorry for him.

I feel for him, too, but I've been about 3 different people since d-day, at least. They are still bouncing around inside of me, and I never know which one I'll be from one hour to the next.

I think it's normal for a BS to switch personalities entirely more than once.

That's a given considering that type of bombshell, don't you think?

Like Krazy said, he's been about 3 different guys since d-day. That makes a lot of sense, and I believe it's true for many people. The process after the A is organic in nature, imo.

My dh decided with great clarity, he wanted to try to recover the M, and raise oc as his own, 12 short hours after referring to oc in my tummy as, "your ba$[censored]". Talk about an evolving situation. He only called oc that word, that one time.

shinethrough~ rb mentioned the SCC story himself-- yesterday.

It does put things into perspective. As Kimmy said, there are worse things to some people, than an oc-- they involve death and disease. Indeed.

MyRev:

About this:


Yep.

That's all.

LG

Oh, I think its very understandable given the circumstances, but understanding it doesn't make the situation any better or the outcome any brighter.

AD, I also understand that we view this situation from polar opposite perspectives. In all honesty, I just see this as a lose/lose situation with NO potential winners, given the limited options that rb65 had available to consider, only one of which (divorce) that he could choose for himself. The remaining options were established for him without his knowledge or consent.

That passage carried me through my very darkest days, RB. I was faithful to him and he was faithful to me. He will be to you too, RB. He has your back.

I never said it did.


I am the ultimate pessimist, the glass if half empty type of person, so I understand how you view runnerboy's situation this way. If I didn't witness for myself that this type of situation doesn't have to be a lose/lose, rather a win/win, with many 'winners'-- we wouldn't have polar opposite views on the topic.

I guess it's all a matter of perspective.

Like most of us, RB has to deal with the hand he was dealt and make the most of the cards as best he can. He didn't ask for this. His wife and her low life boss dealt the hand. Now, unintended consequences has put RB in charge of destiny. And he seems quite able to handle it even if he doesn't like it as well he shouldn't.

Larry

I feel sorry for him!! He has to take the perverbial "Gulp or pride and self-esteem" that all betrayed spouses do to recover the relationship. Usually doing most of the work early. Now he has to take another hit to the groin and raise the product of his wifes affair, basically a living daily reminder of the OM (No fault of the Kid). But the betrayer(WW) gets to keep her marriage, financial situation, and basically getting a "Get out of Jail Free Card". Yes there may be remorse and maybe she will be haunted by the memories of betraying her husband. But it pales in comparison to what her husband has to endure. I don't know if there is anything his wife could really do to make it up to him, especially with abortion off the table(which I am not a fan of) and it appears that adoption will not be the course. I hope what happened to RAG will not happen to you, with the wayward wife leaving him and the OC later on again. You don't have to be a martyr....take some time to fully weigh all the options for once you decide there is no going back.

Ya know,

I don't know if I could do what RB seems to be deciding to do. I don't know if I could do what AD's H did, or Tigger's. I don't know that I could do what K or Pops have done. I really don't know that I have it in me, and fortunately I am likely to be tested in that manner.

What I do KNOW, is I have a profound and deep respect for these men. I have a profound respect for Kimmy this much I do KNOW.

And as odd as it may sound to most of you, I respect AD, and Tigger for what they have done on this site and with their lives.

My point??? In my opinion RB won't know if he made the right decision for years...with regard to his marriage. He will know that he did when he sees that defenseless baby and watches his kids take that child to their heart. He will know he did when he sees his children watch him change a diaper (ewwwwww!) on a child they know is not his, but will become his.


What none of us can see or know is the future of the marriage. We can know the affect a man stepping up can have on his children.

It is his to balance out and see if he can do it. But, from talking with K it seems the rewards of that little boy in his life are huge.

Less face it guys, there is NO FINANCIAL reason to have children, says the guy with three of them in college right now. ;

If it was about many things few children would be born. Having children is about sacrafice. If RB divorces his W, he could remarry and in all likelihood this woman would have children. So he would be dealing with another man's children as well.

I still contend this decisions really have to be based on how he sees this marriage in the future with regard to how happy he can be with his W, and how happy she can be with him. After all she did have an affair and most of us know that means somehow we came up short in their view.

Just thoughts.

Have a good weekend all.

JL

............ basically a living daily reminder of the OM (No fault of the Kid). But the betrayer(WW) gets to keep her marriage, financial situation, and basically getting a "Get out of Jail Free Card"................

1- i guarantee you that my dear grace is not a constant reminder of om. instead she is a blessing that has, is and will enrich my life for the rest of my days

2- that "get ouot of jail free" card isn't as all it may seem. my wife (fullhouse) has had to deal with as much and maybe more then i had given the extreme pain quilt can play on ones psychy.

once a man bonds with the baby he tends to move faster in his recovery if they are anything like myself. you gain a whole new focus on that child.

part of the recovery system for dealing with these situations is growing and changing your perspectives. and maybe it is not necessarily that you change but more like you gain a better understanding of who you are deep down inside.

if you read what rb writes about family and his approach to how he and his w will work thru this i think you will see he is not taking any proverbial "gulp of pride or self esteem". he is clearly a man who values his family and the vows he spoke to his wife way back when.

i "knew" that i would never be able to love that little girl. the delivery room was the most painful emotional day of my life. i refused to hold her and the dr/rns thought i was crazy. i refused to do the same at home for about 2 weeks. but once i held her i saw her for her a gift from God.

.............My point??? In my opinion RB won't know if he made the right decision for years...with regard to his marriage. He will know that he did when he sees that defenseless baby and watches his kids take that child to their heart. He will know he did when he sees his children watch him change a diaper (ewwwwww!) on a child they know is not his, but will become his............

JL this is so true. what i was able to learn in those 1st 2 weeks from my children simply loving the child opened my heart.

you are also correct in that this is about rb and his w being able to move in a positive direction towards recovery.

JL it is nice to read your words again. you give me way to much credit and place me in some pretty high company with K, AD, and Tigger.

last but not least ...... is the bar-b-que ready yet? have a great weekend to all

Hey Pops:


New baby smell gotcha

And THAT is a blessing. Great life story Pops. Thank you for sharing (just from me).

Larry

that is all any of us can do, no matter what we decide upon.



Perspective is everything.

Truthfully, any you naysayers can scoff and pshaw all you want, but after seeing the AGONY that my husband has gone and STILL goes through over the pain HE created in our lives....I'd rather be the betrayed than the betrayer ANY DAY.

Knowing the love and devotion that AD, Tigger and other FWW have for their families now...OI! I would never have survived it.

I may be strong to some...they've said so...

but it's small in comparison to having to hit absolute bottom, then turn around and pull yourself up while you are still in witness of the devastation you've caused...to seeing your children lose faith in you...to having all trust erased and have to build it again, brick by brick...

Hope everyone had a great holiday weekend.

It was a good weekend of fun and relaxation for our family. We enjoyed a great day of fun with our family and friends on Saturday. It felt good to just relax, laugh, and have fun. It had been a long time since I spent an entire day with no affair thoughts or talk.

Sunday was a bit of a rough day for both me and FWW. She seemed a little down all day and I could tell something wasn’t right. After church, over lunch, I asked her what was wrong and she said that being with everyone on Saturday was great, but all she could think about today was that over the next few weeks, she was going to have to tell all of these friends about what she had done. I told her that the next few months are not going to be easy for either of us but that we’ll get through it somehow. For my part, I got a good feel for the rollercoaster ride that I’m on. I spent the entire weekend going from feeling good, to having something trigger me and then being angry for the situation I’ve been forced into.

For those who disagree with my decision to recover my marriage and probably raise this OC, all I can say is that I know this is the right decision for me and my family. The easy thing for me to do would be to divorce my FWW and move on. But, I am not willing to throw away aver 21 years of marriage and 23 yrs together over one mistake, no matter how serious the mistake. We have had many years together, most of them very good, and I know that we can have many more good years together. I am not just going to lie down and take it. I have given her my conditions for recovery and she seems to be taking them seriously. We are starting MC this week, so we’ll just see how that goes.

On a more difficult note, we did begin discussing our options about this baby. Both adoption and keeping the OC are both still on the table, but I can tell by her tone of voice that she isn’t really excited about the adoption possibility. We also sat down with the kids and she told them about what she had done to our family including the pregnancy. They knew about the affair, but I think it was good for them to hear about it directly from FWW. I think it helped ease their anger by seeing just how much all of this has hurt her. She did a great job of accepting all of the blame for what she had done. For anyone that thinks she is getting off easy, you just have to look into her eyes to see how much pain she is in. In some ways, I think she is hurting more than I am at the moment. They were obviously shocked to learn of her pregnancy. She presented all of our options to them and asked that they each pray about it and share there feelings with us.

We have a long way to go. I still have times when I just want to run away. But, I am confident in the decision I have made. I was reminded in my devotion time this morning that we are all sinners. When the woman caught in adultery was brought to Jesus, the crowd wanted to kill her, but Jesus said “he that is without sin, cast the first stone.” I am certainly not free from sin, so I have to be careful about casting stones. I have never cheated like FWW has done, but I have my own sins to deal with.

For those who have lived this, how did you deal with the constant triggers? Unlike most couples recovering from an affair, we are going to have a visual trigger forever. For the next nine months a pregnant wife is the trigger and after that the OC. I know that SF is going to come up in the near future and I’m not sure I’m ready to have SF with someone pregnant with someone else’s baby.

AW3,

I'm not in your shoes nor could I understand the challenge of the decision you've made, but I can respect it.

I do offer this for you to chew on, though:

If you commit to your marriage and raising this OC, then you must simply accept that the child is now a part of your life and not have it constantly hang over you and your W's head.

If you accept that you will raise this child as your own then you must do so whole heartedly. Some people here say that men choosing to do so are "fooling themselves", but I see no alternative. You must make a conscious decision and then make it a reality so you can start feeling it.

The child will be yours. You cannot refer to him/her as OMC. Dive in, make the child yours.

You will otherwise merely be an unwilling participant in your marriage with a "yes, I'm raising OC, but it's not mine".

It is an absolute acceptance that you must make if you choose to stay in your marriage or it will be a wound that never heals and will always flare up and fester.

Just my 2 cents.

This is what I meant earlier when i said fbh's w/ ocs would be of more help to you. I know pops and RAG can help you with this, as well as K if he stops by.

I think my dh has had it a little 'easier' than you, in that he's never seen xom, not even a photo. He doesn't even know his name. One of my dh's stipulations was that he didn't want to know one single thing about xom or any details about the A-- ever. He said that was the only way he believed he could move beyond it all. The only info he wanted when I was P, was to know if xom was a different race than us, so that he could prepare himself and not be shocked when the baby was born.

I can't help but think my dh was continually triggered, at least during my P, but he never uttered one word about it, if he was.

The SF was very plentiful during the P-- mostly initiated by him. It was like a honeymoon period for us. I'm not sure how he did it, or how he could even desire me at that time, but he did. Again, he had no visual, (at least not a real one), of xom, and I'm guessing that must've helped him. He also rubbed my tummy, talked to the baby, and laughed when he felt the kicks, ever bit as much as with our com.

As far as oc being a trigger, once again... dh says he only sees me in him, because he doesn't know what xom looks like. I'm tormented though, because I of course do see xom's features, but it's gotten easier over time, and really- mostly what I see when I look at ds, is ds. His individual little personality seems to transcend everything.

Thanks, AD, it's always nice to hear a perspective from the other side. I have also been greatly encouraged by reading from Pops about how much he loves his little girl and how much she is just as much his as his other kids.

I guess the good news of the day is that FWW's STD tests came back negative. One more roadblock to recovery is now removed.

Also, I had lunch today w/ DD19(Free lunch is one of the perks of working for Dad during the summer). Apparently she is the spokesperson for the other kids. It seems that they all had a discussion yesterday about their Mother's confession on Sunday. They all seem to be leaning towards wanting us to keep the baby. They have always been close and they can't imagine having a sibling out there and not having him/her in their lives. It looks like the deck is starting to get stacked against me in regards to the adoption route.

I know deep down that it is time to get past the raw emotions and really start to work on recovery. But, on the other hand, I'm scared to death because I know that I am really in uncharted territory with all of this. It makes it easier that FWW has really stepped up and taken my list of requirements for recovery and is doing her best to fulfill each one.

We had a good long talk yesterday and she answered all of my questions about the affair and I believe that she was completely honest. She is starting IC tomorrow and we are starting MC on Friday. She is fully owning this affair and not trying to blame me. She started reading SAA last night. She has confessed her affair and it's consequences to the kids and she attended church with the family for the first time since d-day on Sunday.

The last requirement that I had was that she allow me to share all of this with our Bible study group so that we could have their support during all of this. She stepped up this morning and said that she wanted to be the one to tell them when we meet next week. She has shown me a lot of positive signs, so maybe it's time for me to give her a little break. I think I'll try to just keep some of the triggers to myself and try not to make a big deal out of every bad thought I have. I have a good friend who's been thorough this(w/o the pregnancy) and he told me last week that recovery isn't something that just happens, it's something that you do.

Thanks again for everyone who has come by to offer encouragement and share their experiences both good and bad.

It sounds as if your wife is really remorseful. As you get further down the road, this will hit her even harder (you too). I'm glad to see that she is also getting IC because she's going to need it to deal with her own issues of WHY she allowed this to happened to begin with.


Even though you are working on recovery of your marriage, it is important that you don't neglect your own mental health. Sometimes these triggers (bad thoughts) can cause resentment and bitterness to build until one day you just explode spewing everything out at once. Part of your wife's job in helping you to recover is to acknowledge that you're going to have these thoughts. The trick is working through them together. You need to feel safe to express yourself just as she needs to feel safe.

This was a toughie for me in recovery. I had to learn to NOT hold them in but at the same time, NOT undo everything we'd accomplished because of AO and LB. My husband had to learn that it was okay for me to feel these things and to get them out (but in a loving peaceful way). I would say what was on my heart and he learned to just hold me and say, "I understand."

With her being pregnant, her hormones are going to be wacky enough. I don't envy you guys right now because your recovery is a double yoke with the pregnancy. It's going to take lots of prayer, lots of counseling, and lots of honest talk between the two of you.

Oh, and BTW... it does get easier as time passes.

Hi rb65,

Your good friend had sage advice for you. Choose to recover! God will honor that choice.

Say

RB,

The distance your wife has come since your post of the 15th is simply astounding!!!!

I am very happy for you.

kirk

Hey RB,

There is some good news in all of this. Want to know what it is? You get to use the same strategy that I did with my youngest. You will be ~43 when this child is born. When the child starts college, you can look him/her in the eye and explain as I did: " Here's the deal. You can take as long as you wish to get through college, it is your call. HOWEVER, after 4 years of college I will be 65, and thus probably won't be able to remember your name, thus won't be writing checks. So make your plans accordingly." He looked at me and said your joking right? I said Mother Nature doesn't joke, I will be what I will be in 4 years. My son is due to graduate on time.

RB you are so new in all of this, and there have been so many blows. I would guess this weekend was very bitter sweet for both you and your W. Both enjoying the family, the friends, the outing and wondering "is this the last one?"

I am guessing she is frieghtened to death that you might change your mind a leave. She then would never have another Memorial day as you just had. She probably has no way to express what she fears, what she hopes, and her true feelings. Frankly I don't know what she could say that would make you feel better/good. I can think of a lot of things that would make you feel worse.

You have similar problems. I doubt you have the vocabulary to truly express your mix of love/fear/anger. I don't think any of us do or would in your case.

Your decision to recover the marriage is a brave/honest/good one in my opinion. And oddly it seems to me YOU are her path to redemption in this life. She is going to need ways to make amends. She is going to have to have things she can do to make herself feel better about herself than she does. And in my mind all of those ways lead through you.

In my mind the subtle and difficult part of this for you, is that YOU are going to have to lead your family to the future you have always wanted. Yet in leading you are going to have to be vulnerable enough to allow your W to help you. Her healing and the healing of this marriage comes from both of you helping the other. Your fears she needs to know. And from your writing you fear more than anything your own failures.

"Am I strong enough?" "Will I be able to deal with this trigger or that trigger?" "Am I really a good enough husband for my W to love me and never stray again?" "AM I really a good enough man that my W can and will love me and enjoy being married to me for the rest of our lives?" She is going to have to help you with these just as you are going to have to help her through the deep and grinding remorse and guilt she does and will feel.

I am firmly convinced that any WS with a conscience pays and pays dearly for a long time. The BS never has to worry about extracting punishment because internally the WS is doing some serious punishing of their own. In fact, you will really have to help her or her remorse/guilt will destroy her.

You are early into this my friend. You have made a brave decision. Your children see things in a very different manner than either you or your W. Why? Because they have enormous confidenence in YOU as a man, as a father, as their Dad. Pay attention to them, not just to make them happy, but learn from them things that you will need to know.

As for SF, my thoughts are that she is YOUR W no matter her condition. When you are ready I think you will find YOUR W waiting for you. Don't take too long.

I hope something I have said is of help.

God Bless,

JL

RB65,

Not that you need to be told this, but remember to put your needs first. Not your wife's, not the OC's. YOURS.

If your W wants to keep the baby, fine. If your kids want your W to keep the baby, fine.

That DOES NOT mean that you have to raise it.

I wouldn't give any clue of my intentions beforehand. That would be seen as trying to force the outcome I desired, and you'd always be resented no matter what your W decides. On the other hand, if you decide to stay and you're not really committed to raising the OC, you'll likely end up being resentful.

Let her make her choice, then you make yours. I don't see this decision as a "team effort". The keep it/give it up" decision is your wife's to make, and her's alone.

That's just how I see it. You are obviously more level-headed and willing to forgive than I am.

I think in making your decision about what to do, assume that people are going to know this is an OC. I don't see how you can keep it a secret at this point. Anyone who knows about the affair is going to count back the months to figure out the date of conception. I'm sorry to say, but this would be way too juicy of a secret for people to keep to themselves.

JL you are right on so many levels.

I find that as each day passes, my anger is being replaced by fear. Sure, there are times when I think about where I’m at and the anger is still there, but mostly it’s becoming about my fear for the future. My kids look at me as the guy with all of the answers, the guy who can fix anything, the guy who can protect them from harm. But, this whole affair has shown me just how helpless I am. I don’t have all the answers. I can’t “fix” this. I can’t protect my wife and kids from everything. It’s hard for someone like me to come to terms with his vulnerability. I question whether I'm strong enough to get through this every day.

I can also see the hurt and fear in her eyes and hear it in her voice. I think that the way OM tossed her aside after d-day, was really eye-opening for her. I think she went from the adrenalin filled high of the affair to rock bottom in a short period of time, making her question her self-worth and fearing that she had lost everything. I feel like she is trying to make amends by doing whatever I ask her to do. I am trying to be conscious of this and not take advantage of the situation to make myself feel better.

The more I learn about all of this the more I realize how far we have to go and how little I really know. But, I do know that what I ultimately want is for both of us to heal and grow as individuals and as a couple. I want our marraige to be better than before and I want our kids to have 2 strong stable parents.

You were also right that this weekend was bittersweet. We had a great time, but in the back of our minds we both admitted to one another that we wondered if it would ever be like this again. The prospect of being parents again at our age and after all of these years takes a lot of adjusting. I know that my plans for the next 20 years included a lot of traveling, an empty nest, and the only baby was a grandchild way down the road. We both saw our family and friends living the life we had envisioned while we start over with a new baby.

I can just hear all of the comments now about what a cute grangchild we have. But, I'll remember that college deal. Now if I can just find some way to scare the others into finishing in 4 years.

RB,

Well I cannot tell you how to handle the OC situation because clearly I have not been there. I can tell you that I am where you will be in 20 years. And besides 20 years older ;), you will most likely feel pretty much as you do now physically. You will be ready for the youngest to graduate from college, remember the empty nest starts are 18, so that is good.

You will be a different Dad to this one than to your others because you will be older, more settled in your career. You will see thing differently this time, and probably be more active in your childs life. (Notice I said "your child"). The child will be yours sooner than you think and you will be "Dada", "Daddy", "Father" (when they are frustrated with you. ), and just "Dad" as they get older.

We know a fair number of people who have adopted and this is the progression. As you can see from AD, Tigger, Pops, and K if he comes around again, you will see the same progression.

As for the travel, you will get to do it... tee ball, soccer, sports, music, school functions, OH YA! you will travel.

But, RB, when you hit my age you will still be looking at 20 to 30 more years if not more, most if not all with good health.

My recommendations concerning your fears is that you speak of them to your W. Speak of your sense of powerlessness to your W and perhaps even your older daughter (that one is your call).

You are right you cannot "fix" this. But, you can "transform" this into something pretty spectacular and for that you will need your W's help.

RB I think it was one of the Beatles that said "Life is what happens while we are making plans." You are seeing this in spades. But, I think you will find also that your own children will help you as they get older. I think you will find that many things you fear you will be able to handle.

The key as I posted to you before is for you and your W to decide on what this marriage is going to be like from now on by determining how you will treat each other, love each other, respect each other, and help each other. I know it is easy to write these words, but this will take time and good counseling.

Oh and RB your kids are right. You are "fixing" something that you never imagined you could. You are stronger than you think my friend.

One last thought, OK! several last thoughts. First forget getting the first one through fast. They will or they won't. The last one will be trying to catch up with brothers and sisters so the age thing works then.

Finally, talk with your kids a lot. Listen to them, because my bet is they have fears as well. They have reason to doubt their mother, and that is a terrible thing for a kid to deal with even a 19 year old. You have a lot on your plate RB, but you have a good family, good friends, and I think you will learn that you have a good W. A man could do worse RB, just remember that.

God Bless,

JL

Runnerboy, I think you are making a decision that is well thought out and very courageous. I applaud you.

I also like to see you taking a very active role in setting boundaries and your needs. It will be important to take care of your needs in all of this as well. The failure to do so will see you becoming stuck in a situation where little to no attention is paid to the person here that made the biggest sacrifice. While I still think adoption is the best option for a child conceived in an extramarital affair...I must say with your attitude, this child stands a good chance of having a great life. Some of the vets around here that have been through similar situations could learn more than a little from you.

Be careful with your wife for now. While it may appear that she is reeling from the pain she caused you and the family...it could also be because she was dumped by the other male. I would hate to see you blind sided should he choose to make another appearance.

Best of luck to you.

I suspect that your wife fell out of her infatuation with an audible "thud." Talk about a reality check!!!

Now the kids and your wife are looking at you to make everything right. I guess this is one time you hafta say, simply, "I can't, all I can do is the best I can do." The reality is that your wife broke it, so it is going to take some heavy fixing on her part to make amends and repairs. From the start, I suspect she knows that and will do her best. How the kids eventually settle down with her is going to depend on your lead and how hard they see her working.

I had something nice to say this morning, but the darn post got lost, somehow. Oh well. I have thoughts that are the same as any number of folks posting to you, especially JL, who is always good for great wisdom. One of these days I have a question for JL but I am not about to post it on an open forum.

Anyway, the gist of what I said was that you are being called on to eat an elephant and the only way you can do that is one bite at a time. Seems like that is how you have been handling things and that reflects well on your maturity and judgement.

So far, you are doing as good as anyone I have ever seen on here and frankly, better than most, including me. I was a complete space cadet the first thirty days without a clue except pain.

Larry

rb glad to see that you are willing and determined to try and work thru this situation.

i think the term "fix this" is very vague. sure you may not be able to change the fact of your w being pg. BUT you certainly can have an effect on how others relate to your family by your attitude.

i found that my family and friends reacted off of my attitude. once i took the position to try and work thru our problems they all lost the "kick her to the curb" attitude and were very supportive towards both of us.

one thing i used to help me deal with the rollercoaster was music. i would listen to music that "I" felt helped me. if i was listening to theradio and tehy played something that took me to abad place i instantly changed stations. no matter whether that song was one of my favorites. just my little trick.

fortunately for me i didn't have the extreme visuals that you had in your discorvery. but i certainly understand the sf concerns. part of what helped me was that my discovery was very early in my w's pg and she was going to the gym regularly. so she was in probably the best physical shape she had been in for the last 10 years. so the sf was as AD said, better then the honeymoon. there were still some things i could not do with her and have no interest in to this day. they are some of the triggers that still haunt me a bit. don't get me wrong they are very far and few between.

on the subject of loving the baby. don't worry i think that you have shown that that will just come naturally for you. this is where my com were able to teach me so much. because some were still very young and didn't understand all the emotional stuff that we adults deal with they just saw it as mom was having another little sis. they just wanted to love her.

it's time to run off to work.

i know it may seem different standing in your shoes but from tis side you are quite well . i have no doubt that you will get thru this and that little one wil lenrich your life.

on the bright side i was 50 when our grace was born. so the way i see it you are still young.

one more thing. i am not trying to make excuses for your w's actions but i am concerned that "all the blame does not get laid on her. one important thing that i had to come to terms with was my responsibility in all this. no NOT in my w's choice of actions, but instead in what it was that i was not fullfilling in her life that allowed her to concider her actions.

ok now i'm gone, late but gone

Thanks Pops. Your success is an inspiration to someone that is just starting to walk the path you have been down. I am in awe of the way all of you guys have been here for me the past few weeks. The words of encouragement and even the 2x4's mean more than I can ever explain.

I have really been working Plan A hard the past couple of weeks. I have made a lot of deposits in the bank and mostly avoided the LB's. But this morning it was really hard to bite my tongue. The part of me that wants just a little justice really reared it's head.

FWW got a good dose of reality this morning. When I left for work, she was sick as a dog. If she didn’t remember the morning sickness from the other kids, she does now. I tried to be supportive, but it was hard. I know it sounds bad, but I couldn’t help but think that I hope she has this every morning for the next 7 ½ months to remind her of what she’s done. I didn’t say it, but I thought it.

I have managed to suppress my anger over the past few weeks, but it’s still there and it does surface occasionally. I guess I just need to make sure that I deal with the anger in a way that avoids AO’s or LB’s. But it was so very hard to hide the smirk on my face as she bowed to the porcelain god and I’m guessing it would be a LB to get caught enjoying her suffering. This is one thing that must be enjoyed in silence

I'll work on being more sympathetic before I go home.

pops,

Does your OC know that you are not the DNA dad?

Do you and your wife plan on telling the OC?

RB,

Just rememeber anger is a secondary emotion driven by primary ones such as, pain, fear, anxiety, frustration, etc. Focus on what is driving your anger (I know her actions) and you will be able to handle it.

My guess, you are hurt deeply and very frustrated that you only have two ways out of this and neither is very attractive right now. And finally you were put into this position by your W's decisions.

Tough stuff, but recovery is definitely NOT FOR SISSIES/WIMPS.

Hang in there.

God Bless,

JL

Attempting this type of complicated recovery without a coach by your side is foolish - Call the Harley's - and furthermore - attend one of their seminars

Pep

and this forum is no substitute for real coaching - we will be cheerleading - but you need a coach

sooner not later

Pep

road,,,yes grace does know her dna. her bio father lets her know it every wednesday and every other weekend.

rb here is one thing that i think may help you in getting past some of the anger. Stop referring to your w as fww, ww, wwsu or anything else. if you are going to make this work you have to drop the titles. the same goes for grace. i really hate referring to her as oc.

i am sure your w would not refer to you as the gwwtch (guy who wrecked the car husband) if that were something you had done. kwim. i am hard pressed to remember. (to many b-days under my belt i guess) but i can't remember referring to fullhouse as ww or fww. once i decided to try and make it work she was my w.

sorry but i am lmbo about bowing to the throne for the next 7 1/2 months. you are right it is probably a huge lb but the thought is a funny one.

let me tell you a little about me. I am far from a Holy roller but i do believe that Jesus was given by God to forgive us of our sins.

so back to you and your w. you said that you know you are far from perfect and that you have your own sins to deal with. my w's uncle, who is very well versed in the Scriptures explained it to me by saying that in God's eyes sin is sin. there is no difference between one or the other. murder, lieing, stealing, adultry.

another thing he told me was that affairs happen all the time. and preg from sex happens all the time. so the real issue is if i can get past my w's infidelity not the consequences of her actions. it just helped me to not place the blame on the child.

from reading you posts i can see the kindness and gentleness that you carry in your heart. and by no means do i or should anyone else mistake that kindness and gentleness for weakness.

another story from the Bible that helped me was (and i am sorry that i can't recall the Book or verse or even the exact happenings to which the event took place) but it was something about all the adults pushing the children back so they could get closer to Jesus. and HE said stop and bring the children to me.

i know there are a whole lot of hills and valleys you have to go over and through BUT let tis child come to you.

trust me I tried to fight it and it wasted about 2 months of my life and it kept me from grace for about 2 weeks of hers.

you are a good man rb. try and find a little peace everyday and before you know it you will be living 24/7 with a happy heart again.

i don't have a computer in front of me all day so if you ever want to ask me something you are welcome to call. i am on the west coast so depending on where you are allow for the time zone differences. i am available by phone from about 7am - 9:30pm most days. if you want the number just let me know.

Pops

Did you have the chance to keep the OM out of the OC's life?
If you could of kept the OM out would you have?

RB

Do you have the same opportunity. Have you discussed this with your WW?



I bring this up on how hard it is for some to recover when the WW still has contact with the OM because of the OC. More for you to talk over with your wife.

As pep said call the harleys.

road the short answer is ,, yes i did have the opportunity to keep the om out.

do i think/feel it was the right thing to do? yes and no. that answer gets a little more complicated and i will be glad to share my experience when i have a little more time to write. the reasons for both may be surprising to some.

for RIGHT NOW i believe that om is staying away from rb's w and that is the way it should be.

this IS the time that rb and his w should be working on THEIR marriage. they have at least 7 1/2 months before that decision has to be made.

om at this time will not be able to bond with the baby anyway. even if he had the notion to try. men and women differ in that area. the baby is part of the woman's body for 9 months and for men they really don't have anything to bond to until they can actually get their hands on the little critter.

don't get me wrong this is definately another huge area that has to be discussed and worked out. but not yet

good night to all. find some peace rb

RB,

Ace has a success story thread, which right now is just below yours. Once I post this it won't be. You should read the story that I have posted there. Actually go read the threads that I have bookmarked. One of them contains my very first post to this site and one of the reasons I first started posting here back in 1999. In those days there was only one section not the myriads of them that exist now.

God Bless,

JL

rb, nothing to add, but had to comment on this:


I was in CPR training yesterday and the teacher was talking about his college years. His dad told him that he would have a checkbook open for exactly four years, and after that, the checkbook was shut. So he had better be finishing in 4 years, or he'd have to pay for the rest himself. Needless to say, our teacher made it out in 4 years!

Pops,
Your post reminds of what my Pastor told me after I found out about the pregnancy. He simply reminded me that the day before I was ready to forgive my wife and move forward. At that time, I knew that she had been physical w/ OM, I knew that they had unprotected SF, and I knew that there were possible consequences to that like STD's and/or pregnancy. He then told me that nothing had changed except for the fact that one of the possible consequences was now a reality. That consequence will change the dynamics of recovery, but it shouldn't change my willingness to forgive my wife.

Because my faith plays such an important role in my life, I have spent a lot of time in Bible study and prayer since d-day. One of the things that I have been reminded of almost daily is that Jesus died to pay the price for my sin and offer me forgiveness when I didn't deserve it. It's called grace, or unmerited favor. He gave me what I needed, not what I deserved. When Jesus has forgiven me of my sins, how can I then not be willing to forgive my wife. By the way, Pops you are right In God's eyes sin is sin whether it is lying, stealing, hatred, or adultery.

JL,
Thanks for the reference to the success thead and your early postings. They were very encouraging. It has helped more than I can say to read some of the threads form beginning to recovery and see that it is possible. I still hurt every day. I am still angry every day. But, as each day passes, I feel better about the possibilty of recovery. It helps that my wife is doing everything she can to repair the damage she has done. She is doing everything that I have asked of her and more. God is giving me the strength everyday to deal with just a little bit more.

rb65,

First, let me say, that this is your life, your decisions to make, and your responsibility to live with the consequences of those decisions. All that we can do is offer a little support, advice and perspective.

I intend to make this statement, because I feel compelled to at least present an opposing viewpoint, but will then back out of your thread, since we are obviously NOW viewing this from opposite perspectives and belief systems.

It is sad for me to see a BH, who came to this forum with such great instincts and actions to be reduced to where you are now.

It appears to me that your Pastor and many of the posters here are pumping sunshine at you, but admittedly, you appear to WANT to hear that message right now.

From reading between the lines of your posts, I don't see this ending well for anyone, but your belief system seems to compel you to swallow your pride and attempt what would be unthinkable to many BH's.

I really do wish you well, and hope that I'm wrong in my assessment, as no one should have to endure what is facing you.

PEACE to you.

True.

But like it or not, whatever he CHOSE for himself, he'd HAVE to deal with it.

There are NO outs in this mess.

It is simply a matter of chosing a path with the least amount of nuclear fallout.

I'm a bit in MK's corner about your sitch, but I do want to offer this thought to you:

You can still forgive your W without being married to her.

Just a thought.

I think triggers will abound for you as this little one becomes the challenge that kids become. I know that I had no problem dealing with the challenges of parenting and the stress of parenting with my own kids, but would have a very difficult time with one that wasn't mine.

Then again, if I were to choose to adopt a child I'd go into that decision as an equal with my spouse and not have that decision forced on me.

It almost feels like OM is getting away scot free too. He fathers a child with your wife and has no obligation to provide support. He should, at a minimum, be forced to pay for the child he fathered and have some sort of consequence for not being able to keep his thing in his pants when dealing with married women.

You're in a lose/lose situation. All the choices suck.

You've chosen to try this path you're on. I can understand that you don't want to throw away 20+ years of marriage, but that's dead no matter what. You have 18-23 years ahead of you now where you will be taking care of a child that isn't yours with a woman who has betrayed you.

Forgiveness doesn't mean you stay married.

What do your kids think? I'm sure they lean towards you guys staying together.

This really needs to be a family decision. Their choices are no better. Have parents split up and a half sibling, or have parents stay together, have a new half sibling, and know that dad is either fooling himself or isn't happy.

Do you really see yourself standing in the delivery room and being happy when this child is born?

I could see myself standing there, watching my W holding it, and feeling numb. The constant thought of, "that kid isn't mine" would be running through my head.

Your W is a high risk pregnancy because of her age. All this talk may be premature if her body rejects the baby. How far along is she?

MyRev:

RB seems like he is moving in the direction that might not appeal to YOU.

And many others for that matter.

I'm sure two years ago you would have NEVER stayed with a woman who cheated on you.

Yet, here you are.

Because we never KNOW what we are going to do until we face a particular situation.

I sure RB would have felt that same way about two years ago. About a cheating spouse, a potential pregnancy from that cheating, etc. Heck, my BS felt the same way. Yet here we all are. Still fighting for our marriages.

RB may make a choice later to Plan D his wife. Many WYES in the road right now for him. Does he know about all the possible WYES in the road? Yes. They have been pointed out to him on this thread. Does he know of all possible WYES in the road? No. No one ever can.

So, Please don't be so harsh in your condemnations for something you wouldn't do, in a situation you haven't faced. Instead, Applaud him for facing such difficult choices with grace.

And I wanted to second the best advice given so far on this thread, from the Great and Wonderful Pep: CALL THE HARLEYS.

JMHO.

LG

RB

It warrants repeating that you could use a personal marriage coach in your situation as Pep advised. The roller coaster will have unexpected turns in the next several months.

No man should have to endure this situation. Not sure if I could if it was on my plate. I admire your strength during this time.

Have a 54 yo co-worker ready to retire from the company and move to the hill country and start a small business when he received similar news. His wife (47 yo) is now 5 mos preg. They have 3 children and 2 grand children. His plans are all a mess. He doesnt know how or when he will be able to retire and now has to worry about force reductions currently happening. He is just accepting of his fate. His kids (all grown) are not so accepting and refuse to interact with their mother.

lg,

I gave the above post quite a bit of thought and held off on posting anything for several days. I thought I made it very clear that I was offering a different perspective for him to consider, as for the past several days, all he has gotten was a bunch of pollyanna responses, which in my opinion, were largely ignoring the very "harsh" realities of the situation. Others are free to disagree.

From what I see, rb65 has quite a bit of (understandable) anger within himself at the moment, which I think is consistent with his personality evidenced by his early strong actions. Granted, I may not have experienced directly what rb65 is experiencing at the moment, but we seemed to have similar proactive personalities, and I know how difficult its been for me to get over my betrayal, which is NOTHING near what rb65 is facing ... and I don't agree in any fashion with the concept that "all sin is equal" ... that is just a foolish notion, IMHO.

Also, I am just getting through that severe ANGER period that comes at the 6-8 month mark post D-Day. Now project yourself 5-7 months into rb65's R and imagine what that ANGER is going to be like when you are constantly triggered by looking at your WW being VERY pregnant with someone else's child, in addition to having the added visual reminders burned into his brain. It likely will not be pretty.

In this case, reality is HARSH!!!

Myrev..you're right..all sin is not equal. Not even close.

I, for one, am glad that you have posted your thoughts here and do not find them harsh at all.

Despite what some people would have you believe...some people actually do know what they would do when faced with a particular situation.

It is not necessary to remain married to his wife for RB to forgive. I do believe with all my heart that adoption is the best option...but applaud RB if he takes on this task with an open heart. A lot of sunshine has been blown up his butt regarding this ugly, ugly situation that will be a constant reminder of what his wife did.

I am a big believer that kids are a blessing...in this case they could be a blessing to a couple that can't have children. For this marriage though...this child is really a burden that RB is choosing to carry...his choice.

I truly hope this man hangs on to his happiness and does not surrender so many things in his life that he comes last. A few BH's here that are raising other children are, IMHO, in horrible situations that I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy...and they take it laying down. "Sheeple" is a word that I will borrow from Mel to describe these souls.

So long as RB hangs on to his needs and gets them met...I am all for supporting him. If he takes after some others in similar situations, I would feel as though he made a huge mistake.

While I am all for SH and MB coaching...I would not advise it in this case. Based on past results with OC involved, I would suggest that in these cases I have not seen the great results from the Harley's that I have come to expect. Infidelity with no OC involved, I am right there with you directing him to MB coaching....OC involved...I would hesitate.

MyRev and RW,

Thank you for your perspectives because no 2 situations are alike and I like getting responses from all sides because no one person has all of the answers. While I may not agree with your POV, I value your input and it does help to be reminded that this is going to be a tough road. I do understand, as both of you have pointed out, that I can indeed forgive her without staying married to her. In fact, my Pastor pointed out in that same conversation that I had every right to divorce her and move on. Forgiveness is the first step in me being able to move on w/ MY life. It’s really as much for my good as for hers.

Next, I am choosing to do my best to recover this marriage because I know how good it was for about 18 of our 21 years. I know in my heart that the best future for me involves her. However, I am perfectly willing to pull the plug on this if at any time I see that she is not pulling her own weight in this recovery. I have high standards for what our recovered marriage will look like and I will not settle for just getting by. While I know that our kids would prefer that we stay together, I also know that they will make it just fine if we don’t. However, I am going to fight for my marriage with all that I have in me. At this point, she is doing everything that I have asked for and more. That helps me keep going and gives my more confidence in our chances every day.

As several have pointed out, if you had asked me what I would do in this situation a few years ago, I would have adamantly told you that I would throw her to the curb and move on w/o her. But it is hard to really know what you will do in a certain situation until you are faced with it. I truly believe that I am a better man, husband, and father than I was 6 weeks ago at d-day. I know that I am strong enough to walk away from this marriage if I need to. But, I am also strong enough to stay and work through all of this and build a stronger marriage and family than before.

Finally, at this point, I have no idea how we will handle OM. Part of me wants to never tell him and keep him out of our lives, part of me wants to punish him and force him to pay CS, and part of me wants to use CS as threat to get him to sign a termination of parental rights to ensure that he stays out of our lives for good. We will decide together how best to handle this if we end up parenting this child. But, I also understand that trying to get revenge on him is a slippery slope. How much revenge would ever be enough to heal my pain? The answer is that there could never be enough. In the end, I will never be able to fully heal as long as I harbor hatred for OM. I’m still working on that because if I saw him today, I would probably end up in jail. But, it lessens a little each day.

I sometimes feel like a person w/ multiple personalities as my moods and perspectives change daily. But, I am committed to a marriage where both of us are better as individuals and as a couple. We are just starting down this road(it's only 6 weeks since d-day) and we never know what curves lay up the road. I just have to take things one day and one problem at a time.

And that is what I feel you need to hold on to! Do that and your recovery will have the best chance of making it.

ITA.

At this point, there is no way to keep this a secret. Too many people know about the affair and will put 2+2 together. Your future plans should not hinge on keeping this a secret. Assume that he knows, his wife knows, the church knows, etc.

i have to agree with that you should plan on people knowing the truth. if you plan on opening up to your bible study group then expect that word will travel fast.

the other thing about trying to keep this a secret is it will be like any other lie. the harder you try and hide it the more it will fester and remain as a trigger everytime you try and conceal it.

this is one of the other harsh realities of staying in your marriage. both you and your w will have this cross to bare. from my experience this will be much harder on your w then on you. when people hear that you stayed they will praise you for your inner strength with statements like "i could never do that". but your w will have to face those same people, looking at you in awe, in the eye and know that in the back of their minds they are thinking "how could she".

for those who thinks that supporting him is blowing smoke up his butt. that statement is nothing but smoke. i have walked in his shoes and can tell you that this is going to be one tuff ride. i see no one trying to sugar coat anything.

rb can get thru it, or maybe he won't. who knows for sure? no one. but i can tell you this. if he throws in the towel and never tries, he will carry it for the rest of his life.

so what is the rush? after all he can always D down the road if tings don't improve. and i can bet that once a D is finalized then there will be no going back.

when i decided to stay and work on my M it was with one clear thought. I will "never" go through this again. my thoughts were that if we couldn't be happy together after this hen she was free to go and find it where ever she needed.

let's look at some of the options if he were to D. on ehis com have already made their views clear. so if they end the M what? he or she moves away. is oc out of his life? hardly. as long as his com have anything to do with their mom, she will have oc around and then when his com visit rb there will undoubtably be times when the conversation lands on oc.

point is that you can run but you can't hide from the truth.

i also disagree with hwo ever said it ws a lose-lose situation. what is the loss in your heart loving another small child? in being a positive roll model for that same child? what loss is there in being in a situation that allows a child to feel secure and loved?

look it's obviouos that if he stays and can't manage to put his anger aside and find love for the child then the marriage will ultimately end.

about his anger towards the om. natural. and it too will fade with time. so he says if he saw him he would end up in jail. maybe/maybe not.

i know 1st hand his anger. but he also knows like i did that om wasn't worth it.

Pops, I agree with everything you said, except this:


Don't you mean YOU were free to go? You were the one that was betrayed. According to the Word, you had every right to move on, but you didn't.

I think you and runnerboy both are amazing men and your wives were idiots for almost ruining one of the best things in their lives-- marriage to a good and faithful man, and I'm not just blowing smoke. LOL

"Most important of all, continue to show deep love for each other, for love makes up for many of your faults." - 1 Peter 4:8

I see some of the posts supporting keeping COM as having the subtle message that keeping COM would be the height of nobility, love, selflessness, and respect for his WW's feelings. Also carrying the subtle implication that requiring adoption as a condition of R as being less than noble, less than loving, selfish, and inconsiderate. This is just my read but I think others are picking up on it.


There is a bit of a rush because jurisdictions only give you so long to contest paternity. Whose name goes in the 'father' block on the birth certificate at the hospital? If RB gets tired of changing COM's diapers at 0300 six months after it is born, and goes for the D route, is he now stuck with presumed paternity? Will he have to fight a huge legal battle to avoid paying CS for COM? RB needs expert legal advice NOW.

Excellent observations Bitbucket

Pep

PS -

The rationale behind encouraging you to seek professional marriage coaching help from Harley NOW - is that in order for this recovery to work to make both of you very happily married to each other, you're going to need to learn to become POJA-MASTERS. POJA is going to be the sticking point. It takes effort to learn this without a coach, and in many cases errors will not make much of a difference. BUT - in this case, if you screw up POJA NOW while you are both stressed out beyond belief, there is no going back and "fixing" some of the errors regarding the pregnancy issues.

Get Harley help - especially with POJA issues regarding "What do we do about pregnancy issue X - Y - and Z ?"

RB, I see you as trying to live out in your own life what are just "words" in the Bible...until we actually put them into practice. This is hard for someone who does not share your belief system to understand. Apparently it's hard for some who DO share it, as well. As I see it, that's their problem, not yours. If people here who encourage you in your stated desire to be what you claim to believe, are accused of "blowing sunshine", then Jesus must've been blowing solar flares!! Yes, you are certainly entitled to walk away, but if you chose not to exercise your God-given right, then what you do from here on out is still your own life to live.

Well, let's at least be intellectually honest here ... if I don't know "smoke" when I see it, then YOU can't say "but i can tell you this." You "know" a lot less about what the future holds, than we do about what we are reading right off of our screens over the past few days.

...and FWIW, I was the one who said this was a no-win situation, because IT IS. There will be NO winners in this, at least by any definition that I know ... there is a HUGE difference in "surviving' this, and considering it a "win".

I don't know your story, as I've never seen you post prior to this thread, but from what I've seen on this thread ... I perceive a lot of self deception from you, much like many of the other posters in similar situations that you cited earlier.

I agree with MEDC, these situations involving an OC are outside of the areas that MB can successfully treat, mainly IMHO, because one of the basic principles of a successful R using MB is NC, which is basically impossible in an OC situation, where the OM is ALWAYS actually or potentially just on the outside of the M looking in.

That's not the way I see it. I see with respect to the innocent child in all of this, who has NO CHOICE in any of it.

rev,,,,, without hijacking this thread you can read my profile at the bottom of my post to get the gist of my sit. only everyone is 2 years older and i will be the grandfather of 8 in about 6 months.

some more quick background,,,,,,,,,,when w had the baby i was in the room with her, was a the most difficult emotionally draining moment of my life. she wanted to let om walk away, i had many reasons why i thought he needed to pay cs at the minimum,

including my health, stability for the com should anything happen to myself, with all those kids w would need as much as possible to get by. om knew of preg. i believe that nothing bad can come of a child knowing their bio parents, because of where we live and the schools that my com and om's com would attend i would be running into him for the next 10 years anyway. as a result my now 20 year old son was the soccer coach for om 15 year son at the hs. om is a school bus driver and i coach at the hs, therefore he on occasion is the driver of my lacrosse team. and whose to say that in 10 - 15 years om will not walk right back into my life? either on his own or by grace wondering who her bio father is. which is ver common these days

end result.. om has visitation and takes it regularly, he pays his cs (which i don't see one red cent of), i have come to accept grace as my own child and i have no animosity towards om. althoough if he were to fall off teh face of the earth i would be the last person to care. LOL

my w on the other hand has a very hard time sharing her baby with om, mother bear symtom i guess. and this is where i have come to feel that keeping om away may be the best solution.

i only try to offer examples of what i have experienced and things that helped me. one thing that never helped me was any negativity.

i am listening to his words and trying to support his choices. teh way i see it is if he is wiling to move forwrad and his w is doing the things he requires of her then we should be offering support not trying to show him alternatives because our own personal situation isn't turning out the way we like it.

you are correct in that i do not "know" what the future holds. so let me phrase it this way... i wil bet you a $100 against your donut that if "he" doesn't do all that "he" feels "he" possibly can to rebuild his marriage and just walks away. he will spend many sleepless nights wondering why not.

as far as the rush goes. in most states (NOT ALL) teh child is presumed to be a product of the marriage unless it is contested within 2 years after the DOB. so not knowing where rb lives he would most definately be well advised to seek out a very good family lawyer and make sure he understands the laws specific to his situation. i live in Calif, i know that ohio and s carolina have different laws the i had to deal with.

i have not posted on mb for some time. i have stopped by and read on occasion and even posted once in a while. but with other family issues such as a dd dealing with an obusive bf and then a hells angel husband and the torid of other problems that 4 teenagers in the house at one time can cause i don't have much time. a little bird put rb's sit in my ear and i thought i may be able to give him some encouragement.

i know the anger he feels towards om and the fear of what he would do if face to face. i know the pain he feels watching his w's tummy grow with oc and the feeling of wanting to rub her stomach but it hurts. the angst he will go thru wondering about the childs physical appearances. i feel the passion that is ingrained in his mind towards his w but will not be able to respond to because of visual triggers. i know the desire to get right in there and help with the delivery but he may be crippled by emotions and just sit back and watch. i understand how he will see the new born as a tender bundle of Gods creation but not be able to muster the strength to hold him/her.

if you want to know more about who i am or about my past i am sure you can research it in this sites archives. if i were a little mor ecomputer savy i could help you find them. but i am very technologically challenged you might say. along with a spelling handicap. just start by looking under the preg/child section around the time frame of my becoming a member.

if you would like to discuss my phylosophy's further i would be happy to oblige on a new thread.

Since no one has said much about this I will give another point of view. Provide for your wife to get an abortion. Now. Pay for it, drive her there and be nice but firm about it. As if she were an acquantance with problems or a distant friend you are doing a favor for.

Then...go forward working hard with all your energy to first figure out if you want the marriage anymore, and then secondly to find out how badly your wife wants the marriage and thirdly to figure out how to heal the marriage.

If you want to stay married, I would insist as a condition of the relationship that your wife get a tubal ligation or get depo provera shots in case...just in case.... she slips and has unprotected sex with another man again....That way even though you figure she will not do that again, if she does have sex again with other men, at least there will not be another child created! If you go as far as the abortion route, make sure that there is never another "wayward pregnancy" ever again.

Good luck.

Stella, but he already knows abortion is murder. Once one knows that truth, and moves intellectually beyond the mindless bumper stickers, they can't turn back the clock of ignorance and hide from the truth anymore. His left brain and his conscience are fully functional so those silly rationalizations won't work. Since he knows the truth, abortion would not be the easiest route, but the HARDEST ROUTE. He would have blood on his hands too and he knows it. He has too much character to sacrifice his conscience. Murder is not the solution to adultery, albeit it seems the easiest at first glance.

Great advice there...rolling eyes. So, kill the baby for the sins of the mom. Great...and then your advice goes so far as to have her steriilzed so that she can't get knocked up from another man in the future. Oh...and you are doing her a favor by providing her with the means to slaughter a child.

Disgusting.

all i can say is... "wow"

i can't believe that was even posted as an option.

mlhb

Great Advise Stellakat,

I say we kill them all, Mother, unborn child, and Om.

then RB can rest assured this will never happen again.

Marvelous thinking.

all blessings,
Jerry

Stella thanks for introducing the elephant in the room. Abortion is of course an option, not everyone believes a child exists from the moment of conception, and as far as I know MB does not administer either pro-life or pro-choice dogma. Not that it would matter if it did.

Runnerboy maybe you have made this decision already. If not, or if you are not absolutely sure, then as difficult as this decision is (to insist on an abortion as a condition to staying married), you don’t have all day. The thing does develop into a child at some point, however disputable that point is.

That decision was made way back when he discovered his wife was pregnant.

The "point" is at conception.

At the moment of conception, a person's genetic destiny is fixed: hair color, eye color, height, left-handed/right-handed, and so on and on and on. The only thing that really changes from there on out is size. If it's not a person then, what is the magic weight or length at which it becomes one? And why should size be a determining factor anyway? Does size only matter in utero, or should we carry this standard post-natally? Am I more of a person now than I was in my 20s because I'm fatter at 60? Or did the fact that age has compressed some vertebrae and shrunk me an inch or so reduce my personhood from what it was when I was taller? Since those two criteria now contradict each other, which one predominates?

Gestational age and size as determinants of humanity becomes a very illogical argument when carried to its reasonable conclusions. From the joining of the sperm and the ovum, a human being is on the way. It's never on the way to becoming a fish, a platypus, a lion, a zebra, an anything-else-but-a-human-baby. To pretend otherwise is to engage in such strenuous mental gymnastics that a person could safely go without further exercise for the rest of the year!

Oh gosh, "it's a THING."

Now I know why my thinking has been all messed up.

"It's a THING !

Thanks, I get it now.

All Blessings,
Jerry

Mikeeverdaycont, Right back atcha! I gave an OPINION. I can accept respectful or even barely respectful disagreement with my OPINION.

YOU and your insults (and your twisted thinking) are disgusting to me.

I think you are very smart but when you insult ME, it turns me off of all that you may think you stand for.

Stella - the abortion issue has been done to death here. RB is NOT getting his wife to have one.

"I know that given the fact that we both are strongly opposed to abortion, the only alternatives left are to keep the baby or put it up for adoption.

I found it now, sorry for making a fuss.

*********EDIT*********

Just a friendly reminder to keep replies respectful. Thank you.

********EDIT********

********EDIT********

Another reminder: We are here to MARRIAGE BUILD, not personally attack those we have differences with. Thank you.

Maverick - I agree, we are here to help build and/or rebuild marriages that have suffered from adultery.

HOW does advocating for Abortion "fit" with your view of marriage building and WHY should it NOT be discussed as an option FOR the Betrayed Spouse and WHY should views PRO abortion and PRO life NOT be discussed?

Are we now in the era of the "thought police?"

IF so, please say so.

In the interest of trying to keep "board wars" down, it is my opinion that you are "Going to too far," but you have the power and I, for one, can only decide to participate or not participate in such system where disagreement over VIEWS is not allowed.

Please let me know when you have read this and I will delete it so as to not "offend" anyone who might read it later.

Maverick, a P.S.

I find it very interesting that you delete MY posts and some of Stellas where she is attacking me, but you LEAVE all the other posts regarding the very same subject.

I'm beginning to "get the message" where you are concerned, and it's a disturbing message.

ForeverHers,

The back and forth personal attacks between yourself and another poster on this and another thread was the problem. The topic was not the issue.

Your cooperation is greatly appreciated. Thank you.

RB,
I am very new here and have lurked for a while and read most of the posts. I too am in awe of your resolve. It has been difficult for me reading all of this and I probably won't post much, if ever again. I thought I might just give my two cents as my perspective is slightly different from other posters. I was not an OC but I am as close as one can be without being one. When my father married my mother he did not want children. For him it was simple, he already had kids, with other women, all prior to marrying my mother. It would seem 5 - 6 years into their marriage my mother decided that she wanted children and never consulted with my father with her change of heart. When I was born I represented failure to my father, as he had done everything he thought he could to have my mother miscarry. Growing up I NEVER had a relationship with my father even though we lived in the same house, my mother raised me as though she was a single mother. Fast forward several years, my own marriage failed ( because of all my demons) after 23 years and I became an OM. I married the OW and we are still married today 10 years on. It has taken many years for me to mature. I am in my fifties now and I have reconciled with all parties.
With your wisdom you are in a fine place. You may not always enjoy where you are at but...noone can fault you for using all of your available resources to come to the best of all decisions given your circumstances.
You are an excellent role model of a real man.

I'm not sure, but prior to Stella I think the only person who suggested abortion was MyRev. Maybe Krazy too. RB flatly stated that both he and his WW were adamantly opposed to abortion, and that pretty much ended the discussion.

Much of the heat and light seems to have been generated over keep and raise COM versus adoption.

You had an affair because of your short comings....not because of your demons. YOU, not your mommy or daddy are responsible for your affair.

As far as you marrying the OW...well...in some eyes, you are still the OM.

You really believe that that?

People can argue when life starts. Do people realize that even an unfertilized egg is alive. It will never reach it's potential till it is fertilized. Then it still has to attach to the uterus wall to stay in the womb to continue living.

All life needs to be protected. Can society decide that he's to old and in poor health, his quality of life is no where near what it was at his prime.

He can't survive on his own. Lets abort him. This is the same logic abortionist's used to justify the killing of unborn children. The unborn child can not survive on their own outside of the womb so it's ok to kill them. Abortionist's logic would then have to support this position. Extend their argument that a child once born can not survive on their own for many years after birth so we should be able to abort post birth too.

As an individual it is easy to say what abortion is. Legal murder.

What would I do if my wife had become pregnant by the OM?

It's one thing to recover from an affair that did not result in pregnancy. Time will fade the memories of the affair. You will recall them less till hardly at all an then only trigger for the briefest moment.

For the most part you can ignore what happened in the past. You have been making great new memories to focus on instead of the pain.

How many times I read here were a BH tells of his pain that his WW is going out to bang the OM. While waiting for his plan A and exposure to work ending the affair.

Then the WW wants to recover the marriage but is now knocked up by the OM.

The nine months of watching, is as if the WW is still having an affair going out to meet the OM. For the changes in her body are because the OM touched her. Even though the WW is no longer leaving her BH at home to go out to bang the OM that fact that she did has to be looked at each day. Watching her breast swell and her belly grow. What a vision to face every day for nine months because I was not the dad.

The changes due to the pregnancy are not permanent and the visual changes brought about a WW's affair would be gone. As a BH forgets that the WW went on dates with the OM and what they did on those dates he most likely will forget how the way she looked carrying the OM's baby.

Having to see the OC every day. How can you forget that your WW had an affair and the memories of the OM?

The money to raise the OC. You have COM ready to go to college. What happens if having the OC makes it unable for you to send your kids to college? Your COM are old enough so that you and your wife could of left them alone to go away here and there for a weekend and now can't because of the OC? You were able to just afford that motorcycle or camper or boat. The OC has now made you too poor to buy the toy you have been wanting to for a long time.

Would you let the OM have contact with the OC? No. For the affair to stay dead there must be NC for the rest of the WW's life.

The OM wants to co parent with your WW. Are you willing to let the WW have direct contact with the OM? I could never let my wife have any contact for any reason.

If this had happened to my wife would she never be able to give up the OC. Her RC faith and maternal instincts would never let her abort. She also could never give up the OC to adoption. I am against abortion. I could not force her to give up the OC either.

I could never forgive the OM. He made a change in my life with the OC that no one can ignore.

This only being a what if exercise I can not say what I would do.
I don't want to leave my wife, my COM, my life.
If I can't walk away from them would I let my wife keep the OC? Leaning that way.

I would keep the OM away at all costs. Forcing OM to pay CS would only prevent NC for my wife.

Could I bond with the OC? To what level? I do not know and never experiencing this I can not imagine. I think that the OC would always serve as a reminder for the affair and the OM.

I feel that the anger that would be inside me would keep me from doing any of the child rearing chores. I would refuse to let the OC change my life as much as possible.

After time would I or could I change and soften towards the OC? I do not know.

Is it wrong for RB or any BH to accept the OC? No. It boils down to how much the BH can handle. How much he wants to keep his wife, marriage, COM, family life, home.

If a BH wants to keep his life together enough then he will be willing to pay the price and recover with his wife and OC.

First RB 65,
let me state that I applaud your attitude and actions in at least attempting to reconcile.
Your in such a tough spot my friend.

Now
Even though this is one of the most trying times in your life,
You will be better off (regardless of the final outcome) for having at least tried (as opposed to just giving up and running away).
So for that I commend you.

However,
keep in mind that you are sooooooooo very Early on in this process.
Sadly,
(in terms of recovery)
you don't even Know what you don't know.
Unfortunately,
as you walk this long journey,
you may find that you can't keep some of the promises you may make at this earlier time.
So yes,
go into this with a positive attitude and true heart .......but perhaps keep the long range commitments to the minimum up and until you've really gone far enough in this process to Understand exactly Where both your Head and Heart are.
Cause sadly,
they are gonna shift, change and alter as you go through the various stages.
Keep that in mind and don't beat yourself up (much) when they ultimately do occur.

Next,
on to something someone else wrote:

The Road,
As I do not know this entire story,
I'll have to go off of what little you've written.

With that said,
did this BH ADMIT that this scenario you've come up with "is" what he did? (ie, knowingly string his WW along with the intention of only hurting her later on)

OR is this just Your interpretation of the events??

Cause Honestly,
All any BS signs on for when they attempt to recover their marriage is just that ......the attempt.
They agree to TRY.

Some find out later on that NO,
they cannot deal with this, they cannot re-connect with their cheating spouse.

Unfortunately,
no one can Know this for sure Up and Until some time has passed.
(Cause like it or not, if the decision had to be made in a short period of time, the overwhelming great majority would get divorced).

Now just because it doesn't turn out as in a fairy tale OR how the WS would like it too ........does not mean it was all just a con job and a "gotch ya".
Regardless of the time frame.

Also to keep things in perspective,
if even after giving possible recovery a real chance .......IF a BS were to ultimately end up Divorcing ..........Of course there is going to be at least Some Bitterness towards the WS for destroying the marriage with their infidelity.
However,
if it is the infidelity that is the Reason for the dissolution ....than that is simply a consequence of those actions ......not vengeance.

For myself,
it took 4 long years to get to the point of not only true forgiveness .....but also to the acceptances within myself, that I could live with this and make a new life together.
Yet,
by these apparent standards .....had I had a different outcome (say at the 3yr mark, and believe me at that point it WAS STILL IN DOUBT) then I'd be somehow guilty of stringing her along and being vengeful.
HARDLY!!!

Face it,
none of us KNOW what we are gonna really do or how we are gonna react up and UNTIL we Go Through the process.
Its no different when trying to recover from infidelity.
You make the commitment to try .......and see what happens.

However,
don't vilify anyone who after going through the process, decides that they Do Not want to remain married to someone that cheated on them.
Makes No sense to do that.
Why, Just because they didn't do it in the Time Frame that "YOU" decided was correct for Them. Please.

How dare anyone tell another BS that they should be OVER IT in 6 months or a year or 2 (or any other arbitrary time frame)!
Sorry but that just too closely parallels "wayward" type thinking .......

Again, (anyone)
if your still there and your trying .......don't feel poorly just because you STILL have some doubts.
Unfortunately,
those will most likely be around for quite some time ......so understand that they are completely normal, and hence so are you.

Actually,
its how you work through your concerns that is one of the keys.
Much better to acknowledge you have doubts then attempt to bury them and let them fester.

Lastly,
whether one stays married or not .....you are better off for having worked through many of the issues that are born out of this awful period in your life.
Recovery (personal & martial) / forgiveness and all it entails is a journey, not a destination.
Always keep that in mind.
Each person has to recover personally, whether or not the marriage does.

RB needs to consult with a family law attorney. This should be a priority. My state allows 2 years for paternity to be contested. I strongly advise against allowing OM in the picture. You want to protect your M. You don't want an OP involved with your W the rest of your life. BTW, there IS a way to do C without his W ever seeing or speaking to OM. They would need to get a 3rd party involved or RB be the drop off/pick up person. I strongly advise IF you choose to allow OM contact that your W continue NC herself with him.

That thing is already a living human being. Please drop the abortion stuff people. RB already has dismissed this as an option.

EVERY time that this issue gets brought up, this whole board goes into a tailspin. You are pro-choice ... bully for you. However, it is a legal proceedure and a viable option in many of these cases, and should be allowed to be discussed as such.

IMHO, we deal with a lot more serious issues here daily than abortion (others are free to disagree) and to exclude this one issue based on a one-sided interpretation is simply ridiculous. Are you really that upset over the descriptive word "thing"?

I have been told on numerous occassions here to "take what I can use and disregard the rest" when dealing with a particular post that I took exception with ... how is this issue any different?

You are entitled to your beliefs, myrev. I asked we drop the issue on THIS thread because of RB's beliefs. Not mine.

If god has such a problem with abortion, he'll deal with the "murderers" in the afterlife, and all those fetuses get a free pass into heaven.

Relax! If you are against abortion, don't have one!

That old post.

I do not remember his exact words. I do remember his tone. They were the same as a WW going through the motions of attempting recovery until the BH gives up and files for divorce. Or the WW puts in enough time to declare that she tried and can't repair this marriage.

Now that the WW had for appearances sake "tried fist" then walks away from the marriage. That in the end she did everything possible to save it.
Making herself out to be a martyr.

With life every one learns how to read between the lines. That is why I felt that BH was not sincere. He was using a false recovery for revenge on his WW. Making his grandstand play that he did every thing that could be done to save their marriage. Then walking out.

He was in his right to walk away. The way he did it was not honorable.

I can not see how I implied in that how that all marriage's must be saved. That all BS' must forgive, forget, and recover. I have only seen honest attempts here except that one time.

When I posted what you quoted was my response to a BH that was starting to build in to many escape clauses in his posts. I did not want to see a repeat. The response I received from him put my fears at ease.

WHAT THE HE$$ IS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE???

You want to debate abortion, start another thread, get the heck off of this one. RB and his W have already made up their mind on this issue, so it is a non-issue with regard to this thread.

You don't want to support him or run your own aganda, get off of this thread and start your own. Entitle it "I don't see how he can do this." I don't care what you call it.

If you think he has forgotten something, or you have some insight into his situation that might help him, bring it on.

Don't forget the man is NOT dumb. I am sure he has thought many things about his situation since he came here, probably more than have been posted to him.

Quit arguing about issues that have nothing to do with RB.

JL

JL, while I happen to agree with you...it is not your place to tell people where to post. If RB wishes for the discussion to leave his thread, that is his call...not yours.

MEDC,

To quote someone YOU know. I have the full right to state my opinion on this matter. This discussion is detrimental to the issues at hand for RB. I fully intend to shine that piece of light on those that seem to have forgotten it. The mediators on this site have also repeated it.

JL

No doubt you have that right. But, don't be surprised when no one cares to listen to your directives. There is ahuge differnce between stating your view and outright ordering people to do something you want.

1st I do not wish to enter the abortion issue so i am replying to the parts that deal with infidelity only

road i must admit as i was reading your reply i was thinking that you probably see the glass as 1/2 empty. the further i read the more i felt you were understanding the difficulties that rb is facing

i think you are right when you say

""""It's one thing to recover from an affair that did not result in pregnancy. Time will fade the memories of the affair. You will recall them less till hardly at all an then only trigger for the briefest moment.""""


""""The changes due to the pregnancy are not permanent and the visual changes brought about a WW's affair would be gone. As a BH forgets that the WW went on dates with the OM and what they did on those dates he most likely will forget how the way she looked carrying the OM's baby.""""

are you trying to tell me that without the preg the visusls and recovery from an A would take only 9 months?

for ME personally it was not the site of my w's body growing with the preg. i have always found the sexiest woman on the face of the planet to be pregnant. OK call me weird. but they are so full of life it just amazes me.

also remember that my w was preg alot with 6 kids. so the site of her with that ballon under her shirt was normal.

what did haunt me was the thoughts and images i would have of her with om. (sorry but the term "banging" may be brutally honest. but when discussing the subject on a thread such as rb's it is still brutal. imho) and i am sure that in rb's case those visuals are much stronger then most could imagine.

rb willhave his own "demons" to conquer not mine or anyone else's

""""Having to see the OC every day. How can you forget that your WW had an affair and the memories of the OM?""""

i thought this exact way during my w's preg. didn't know how i was going to accept this child. and in our situation om is of a different nationality that would surely be obvious to all in the babys features.

rb will have to separate the child from the A like all those who have gotten thru this have

""""The money to raise the OC. You have COM ready to go to college. What happens if having the OC makes it unable for you to send your kids to college? Your COM are old enough so that you and your wife could of left them alone to go away here and there for a weekend and now can't because of the OC? You were able to just afford that motorcycle or camper or boat""""

one of the reasons i wnated my w to seek cs. not for the toys but instead in the event of my untimely demise. she would be strapped with supporting 6 plus one and i didn't/ don't have a fortune stashed away.

i have no idea of rb's financial situattion. that is why a good attorney is a top priority for him

""""Would you let the OM have contact with the OC? No. For the affair to stay dead there must be NC for the rest of the WW's life.""""

this is where i had many questions. what is to quarntee that he won't try and get involved down the road 10 - 15 years? that oc won't want to seek out her bio father in that same time frame?

now for the record i paid cs for my oldest son for 20 years. there was a chance that i would have never known him. so i feel that the right thing to do is give the bio the chance to know his child. geez that is the easy statement on this. i have so many scenerios it isn't funny.

for my w she has a very hard time sharing her daughter with om. i said it before it is the mama bear deal.

our very own tigger had an om that was extremely violent and has never known of his blood line. and rightfully so.

my oldest daughter has been ordered by the courts to NEVER allow her dd's father around him and i agree. he has been convicted 3 times for FELONY domestic abuse.

i also said that if my w wants the om she can have him. fool me once shame on me fool me twice,,,,,,,,,,ain't gonna happen

rb will know when it is time to trust his w agin fully

""""The OM wants to co parent with your WW. Are you willing to let the WW have direct contact with the OM? I could never let my wife have any contact for any reason.""""

even though many states are becoming more leanient with these laws om still has to understand that in the majority of cases he will have a limited role at best. although i was the full time go between at the onset sooner or later you have to decide whether you are going to trust your w again or not.

what kind of a relationship will you have if you have to sleep with 1 eye open for the next quarter of a century.

""""If this had happened to my wife would she never be able to give up the OC. Her RC faith and maternal instincts would never let her abort. She also could never give up the OC to adoption. I am against abortion. I could not force her to give up the OC either"""""

btdt,,,,,,, whne my w initialy discovered her preg she and om attempted to get an abortion. trouble was it was about a week after mothers day and she was already a mother of 6. d-day was shortly after and i also tried to talk her into this. it didn't take long to see that an abortion would have ruined her in ways that there may have been no recovery possible for us.

we also looked into the adoption route. she could and actually i couldn't think of what we would tell our com so that they would not feel insecure about us maybe giving them away also.

rb has seemingly made his choice. so it is time to start supporting him, not trying to push our own agendas

""""I could never forgive the OM""""

yo dude, this hurts to hear this. not that om needs a break. but again what kind of life can you live with this anger in your heart forever?

and i am in no way advocating forgetfulness. you should never forget but at the same time you have to let go.

also isn't hating the om kind of misplacing the fault for your pain. after all it wasn't om that stood next to you and promised tp love you eternally. the truth is that it was your w that caused all thi spain because of her actions. om was just the opportunist that was in the wrong place at the right time. if a ws is going to stray it will be with whomever is available.

i was going to take care of the om permently but had to remember that f i did him in, then i would have to repeat the action on my w. afer all my heart wasn't broken the last time oc "banged" someone.


""""Could I bond with the OC? To what level? I do not know and never experiencing this I can not imagine. I think that the OC would always serve as a reminder for the affair and the OM.""""

again i felt exactly the same.

it is different for everyone. my story is below and yet AD's H handled it differently. rb will find his way


""""I feel that the anger that would be inside me would keep me from doing any of the child rearing chores. I would refuse to let the OC change my life as much as possible.

After time would I or could I change and soften towards the OC? I do not know.""""

only your heart can answer this. what kind of a guy are you? when your friend or family stiffs you for $100 do you forgive them or carry forever.

here's what happened in my case.....when the baby was born you would have thought the delivery room was a morgue.

with my last 6 kids, the same dr and nurses i was almost pushing them aside so i could get involved. with grace all i did was take ppics for my w.

when they told me i cold hold her i said "no thanks, btdt".

i refused to touch her thinking that it was hers and she needs to handle it. yes i used the words "it" when talking about grace.

once home i refused to do anything to help with her. with the other kids all i wanted to do was get my hands on them.

the after about a week and 1/2. the w was in the shower and grace started crying. i tried to ignore it but thought what the hell i will just go rock her and calm her down. once i picked her up she had me. lock, stock and barrel.

after that i was wrapped around her precious little fingers.

another decision that rb will have to make. it will however make recovery hard if cannot accept the child

anyway all the questions you ask are the same as i asked. all the doubts that you raise were the same as i had. there are an infinate amount of unknowns in these sits.

that's why we have to look inside our selves and see who we are. the bitter person that will carry a grudge to the grave or a compassionate, caring, empathetic person who can forgive and move forward.

i think that you are the kind of guy that could also work thru this type of betrayal

i also see rb as that same kind of guy. he doesn't want to hate for the rest of his life. he does want to feel like the victim forever. he wants to heal and find the love in his heart he had for his w and the happiness his family enjoyed.

when i read that his children want to know tis sibling i know he has taught them the good things in life

they can make this work. or at least give it one hell of a go.

This is the 48th post since RB himself last weighed in and had anything to say himself about anything. Do suppose that, caught in the withering crossfire of opposing philosophies, he's had to retreat to his foxhole and hunker down out of the line of fire? Who's going to call "all clear" and let him out again? Anyone?

ALL CLEAR RB,,,,,,,,

If all can simply AGREE to hold their opinions that are contradictive to the course that RB has choosen and simply offer support. his chances of success will greatly enhanced.

also I whole heartedly AGREE with JL that this is not the place to debate certain issues.

what possible good can come of it?

sure it is an open forum and a free speech country. but give me a break. now you want to argue the "you can't tell me what to do" issue.

where exactly is your compassion and empathy for what rb is going thru?

that's why i left this board years back. there was to much of this bickering about things that had nothing to do with the topic of the thread.

to quote a famous American..."can't we all just get along"

I used to think infidelity was a deal breaker...until I experienced and overcame it.

Thereafter, I used to think an OC would have been a deal breaker. I was fortunate not to have experienced that but upon reading this thread...I've come to the conclusion that I would have overcame that also and ended up loving the OC.

I wouldn't have wanted OM in the picture at all and would have taken any and all legal measures to keep him out of the picture. I am, without a doubt, a better father than him so he can kiss off. I'd do a tremendous job raising a wonderful hopefully healthy child in spite of OM.

I love kids. I've got one...where I had indicated prior to marriage that I wanted up to five. I'm really not interested in adopting. So, an OC, if it had happened to me, wouldn't be the worst case scenario. I WANT more kids. Don't get me wrong, it would have been much harder for me to deal with at that time than what I did deal with and I don't wish it had happened. Only stating that if it had, the OC would still be my wife's child and, biblical, WE are one flesh...so, thus, the child would be mine too, not biologically, but spiritually. Biologically, it's a half step better than raising a fully adopted child with absolutely no biological ties to US, particularly one from another country and all the cultural complications that entails. Plus...no adoption hassle and cost...FREE baby (I LIKE saving money).

Thank you RB, pops and others for teaching me something about myself.

Mr. Wondering

exactly what I was thinking 30 secs before I came down and read your post. thanks, I don't have to put it out there now and misspell it and all.

All Blessings,
Jerry

Well, to be fair, at least 3 of the bullets in that crossfire were mine, although only 2 of them remain on the thread. And even though I was on RB's side, and not shooting at him, there IS friendly fire, after all, and if I did any damage to you, RB, and your search for answers, I am truly sorry and ask your forgiveness for making a hard row even harder.

As far as spelling goes, my parents were English teachers. I wasn't ALLOWED to make mistakes in spelling! And even at 60, with my mother dead these last 5 years and my father a confused 93 years old, I am still compelled to go back and fix things, even on anonymous internet forums, if I see I've made a mistake. You are much freer in your posting, Jerry. I think I envy you.

Pops

"are you trying to tell me that without the preg the visuals and recovery from an A would take only 9 months?"

No.

"The nine months of watching, is as if the WW is still having an affair going out to meet the OM. For the changes in her body are because the OM touched her. Even though the WW is no longer leaving her BH at home to go out to bang the OM that fact that she did has to be looked at each day. Watching her breast swell and her belly grow. What a vision to face every day for nine months because I was not the dad.

The changes due to the pregnancy are not permanent and the visual changes brought about a WW's affair would be gone. As a BH forgets that the WW went on dates with the OM and what they did on those dates he most likely will forget how the way she looked carrying the OM's baby"



If the WW went NC with the OM as soon as she got pregnant. The BH most likely not feel NC has started. Seeing his WW pregnant from the OM, will cause the BH pain as if his WW was still going out to see the OM. How can a BH ignore that the OC growing in his WW is not his.

As long as the WW is pregnant the BH can not forget the affair whenever he looks at his wife. It would seem that recovery would not be able to start until the pregnancy is done.

Every day that a BH has to see his WW pregnant is to unintentionally have his WW rub the affair in his face. Even if the wife is remorseful during this time and is doing every thing to ease the BH's pain. There is not respite from seeing her pregnant.

Because not until the OC is born will a BH have to get off the fence and make a decision as to whether he can be a dad to the OC.

Usually we here from the BH's that have stayed. They stayed for many reasons. They accepted the OC when it was born or shortly after.

I remember when my wife was pregnant, I never thought she looked fat. She was pretty. At that time I remember other preg women complaining they looked fat. I told them you do not look fat you look preg, there not the same you look fine.


"also remember that my w was preg alot with 6 kids. so the site of her with that ballon under her shirt was normal"


I complement you on being able to do that. I think that I would not be able to ignore why my wife would be pregnant.

Pops I enjoyed reading your post.

As Mr W said: You can only guess what you might do.

Until your there and you will usually surprise your self.

R,

You may want to look for part of my story on the pregnant/pregnancy board. My mom had an affair before, during and after her pregnancy with me.

If I can answer any questions or concerns you have about keeping this child/being this child's father in every real way, I'd be happy to support you in this. You seem every bit as caring and loving as one of my favorite posters Dealan-de - who has the distinct honor of loving two OCs as much as if they were her own. Seek out her direction if you want to recover your marriage and if you make the choice to keep this child.

I believe you are a wise man, thinking carefully even during times of duress and moving yourself out of the way of harming others even when you have been so wounded.

God bless you!

Sorry to leave everyone hanging, but we have had just a crazy 3 days. Between work, an out of town baseball tournament w/ DS16 and a dance competition w/ DD12 it has been crazy this weekend. We spent Friday evening and Saturday morning watching baseball and then Saturday afternoon my wife and DD12 returned home for the dance competition and left me to finish the baseball weekend. I’m making it a point to make the weekends work free, so I leave the laptop at work and make the weekends about family.

We had a good weekend and really enjoyed our time together. The kids seem to be doing better with their mother since there is less tension between the 2 of us. DW is fully engaged with the family again the way she was before all of this started back in February. I feel better as every day passes and I find myself triggering less and less. But, I know that this may be the lull before the storm, because it won’t be long before she starts to look pregnant and I don’t know how that will affect me until we get there. On Friday, DS16 and I are planning to take the boat a couple of miles up the lake to a little island and camp and fish. Hopefully that will give me a chance to talk w/ him and really find out how he’s doing.

I did have 1 pleasant surprise this weekend. After all of our kid activities, we managed to wrap everything up in time to make it to our Bible study group last night. I had planned to tell everyone about our situation just as she had agreed to last week. On the way there, she reached over and grabbed my hand and apologized again for all the hurt she has caused and thanked me for sticking with her. She then asked if she could be the one to tell everyone since she was the one that caused all of this. For the 1st time since d-day, I really felt like she “got it.” She did a great job of telling everyone and took all of the blame for her affair. We both received a lot of support from our friends and I think there are a couple of ladies in the group that will be a huge asset to DW as she goes forward. I was so blown away by all of this that we had SF for the 1st time in almost 2 months and there was no triggers. I don’t know how long this will last as her body changes, but I’m just going to enjoy it as long as I can.

She went to her 1st IC session last week and we went to our 1st MC session at lunch on Friday. Both went really well. Our MC uses a lot of the Harley’s materials so we are both working on the ENQ this week and we will discuss them together tomorrow night. He told us he would like to work through the ENQ and the LBQ over the next few weeks and then hit POJA hard after that because that would be really important as we try to make all of the decisions that we face over the next 7 months. I feel encouraged by our progress, but I’m still really overwhelmed by all of the challenges we are going to face.

Also, in response to several posters on this thread and another thread, I did talk to a lawyer friend of mine last week who specializes in these types of issues and he walked my through most of the issues that we face. He is researching a couple of items and is going to meet with me and DW later this week to go over all of our options and the pros and cons of each. It’s all just a lot to digest. I am just thankful that we have a few months to make our final decisions.

I'm glad to hear that you are making progress. Good luck in your continued efforts to reconcile your marriage. Continue to keep us posted.

No one can say how they will react to something until they're in it. You're following your path as I likely would, weighing everything as an option.

You obviously love your FWW. Sticking by her through this tough time could give you the marriage you always wanted.

We will root for you regardless of the path you choose. You're getting a very balanced approach on the forum with folks on both sides of the fence giving you food for thought. The decision is ultimately yours and we must respect it.

It sounds like you had a beautiful moment with your FWW. That will always be there regardless of the outcome or path you choose.

Pops,

Like you, I have always found my wife to be particularly sexy when she was pregnant, in fact, I find pregnant women in general to be really sexy. Was that also true for you w/ the OC. I do worry that I will see her differently with this pregnancy. I fear that just as we are beginning to really make progress that the constant sight of her pregnant will trigger bad feelings instead of the warmth and closeness that it has in the past. When/if it triggered you, how did you handle it?

Also, I don’t exactly know how to phrase this, but here it goes. In her past pregnancies(early 2nd trimester), she went through a period where I guess the hormones were going crazy and she literally couldn’t keep her hands off of me. She would almost attack at the door everyday wanting SF. Did this happen with your wife and were you able to continue with SF during her pregnancy? While I really looked forward to this time with my 3 kids, I am really uneasy about it right now. She’s about 8 weeks along, so I know it won’t be long until she reaches this stage.

Hi RB:

I take the hormonal overload approach to why women sometimes do what they do. In the situation you describe, there is a huge need for 'some' women to be hyper because it helps keep their helpmate/protector close. Women are vulnerable whilst pregnant and they know it at some level that may or may not be at totally conscious.

You probably already thought of that.

Larry

RB,,

glad to hear you had a wonderful weekend. sounds like you were able to find some peace. although there were many opinions offered here there was not much peace while you were gone. it was probably best that you missed it. LOL.

i think that your w having some support will be a very good thing.

my discovery was around the same time in my w's preg that yours is. once i thought she wanted to rebuild our marriage sf began like we were a couple of rabbits, maybe even a couple dozen rabbits.

as she grew i still found her sexy yet my interset in sf waned. sf still took place but it did slow down and was nearly non existant in the last trimester. my problem wasn't so much the site of her body. it was more psychological. the knowledge that the baby she was carrying belonged to om brought back images of her and om together.

as she approached her 3rd trimester and the baby was kicking around i started to become more distant from her. my thoughts were that i would never be able to love this child as she would always be a reminder of the A.

now i want to say that (please don't take this as any kind of racial prejudice) in our case om was of a different nationality. we have a granddaughter of mixed race and she inherited more of her fathers genes then my dd's and i love her dearly. but she didn't carry the emotional background that the new baby was carrying. so i was almost deathly afraid that the baby would inherit the om's genes and i would never be able to accept her fully. it was the fear of the unknown that held me captive. time told a different story

now i have to say that had my w taken the same approach that your w seems to be traveling i feel that things may have been a little easier. my w did/does find it very hard to say she is sorry. although she knew she was wrong it she also wanted to point out my lack of fullfillment of her en's causing her to wonder.

some of my children were the same ages as yours are now. my ds 27, dd 19, ds 18, ds 14, ds 12, dd 10, and dd 7. the oldest was out of the house and angry at first but went directly to he will support any decision i made. 19yo dd was very angry at her mother and it took a long time for them to heal. she was pg at the same time. she moved out of the house shortly after. the 18yo ds was afraid that a D was coming but was still supportive of both mom and myself. i think all the younger ones were to young to understand the emotional pain involved so all they saw was a new baby coming into the house.

hopefully that may help you deal with any similarities in the reactions of your children.

TJ.

I must now go wash my mental eye out with bleach.

There are many men that find pregnant women very sexually attractive.

And for some women, pregancy makes SF much better. My understanding is that it has something to do with the growth of more blood veins. Maybe a medical type will know.

I'm so happy you have claimed your place as your wife's husband and lover again. I know it is hard for men. Many women don't have to deal with all of those feelings.

Keep in mind that YOU are banishing the OM from your lives, and protecting this child as a father would.

Hopefully pops and some of the others can help you through the male reaction thing. My advice is to reclaim your place by frequent SF.

You and your wife have a history and family together. I'm hoping that your marriage will make a complete recovery and be better than the one you had before.

Well, we had a little bump in the road last night with DD12 (almost 13). She told her mother that she was going home from school with a friend to work on a project that is due on Friday. What they actually did was sneak off to the mall with her friend’s 16y/o sister. Apparently her mother arrived to pick her up a little early and caught them getting out of the car with their shopping bags.

Here is where the problem arises. They arrived home still arguing and I catch just enough to hear my wife say “I will not tolerate you lying to us.” DD12 responded with “what do you know about the truth, you lied to all of us for months running around with that loser you hooked up with. You wouldn’t know the truth is it bit you in the a$$.” At that, she stormed upstairs to her room and slammed the door.

My wife gets upset with me because I didn’t jump in and help her. I politely told her that “ this was just another of the consequences for what she had done and that this was her mess to fix.” She later apologized and told me that she understood that she was the one that screwed everything up, but that she was just a little overwhelmed because every time that she thinks it’s getting a little better something else pops up. She then spent the rest of the evening moping around the house.

My question is how much should I get involved in these types of issues. I don’t really think it’s my responsibility other than to make sure the kids get all of the support they need to heal from this. I really feel like my wife needs to take the lead in dealing with these problems she has caused. To be honest, I’m afraid I may have enjoyed that little 2x4 that my wife took. I am committed to recovering this marriage 100%, but there is still a part of me that wants her to suffer a little more for what she did.

I did go up to DD12’s room later and talked with her about her lying to us. I told her that what her mother did was very wrong, but that it didn’t give her a license to do the same thing. It’s really hard to tell how much this is just normal teenage rebellion and how much of it is a result of the problems at home. It did remind me how much this has affected the kids and that we need to make sure they get all of the resources they need to heal.

Have I recommended the newsletter Daughters yet? It's amazing for girls your daughter's age. My D17 and I've been reading it together for years. It covers just about everything. Also has an amazing website, lots of stuff on dads and daughters. At www.daughters.com

In your shoes, I would not have interrupted. It's great your daughter feels safe and strong enough to tell her mom what she thinks; encourage it. Her growth is more important than your wife's feelings at this point.

RB, to this day my son still places no weight in conversations that my ex has with him regarding honesty and responsibility. He heard her lie to him for years and now her words have lost every bit of credibility.

I suspect that this will be a growing problem in your marriage and family...and it may be a VERY tough one to overcome.

I think your conversation with your daughter later on was very appropriate...because even thought he child feels that she does not and will not take this type of direction from your wife, she does still need to be accountable to you.

RB,

This is one of those time you need to step up and take charge. You sit down with your DD and your FWW and tell your DD, "Listen, you don't speak to your mother that way. It is wrong for you to lie to us just like it was wrong for her to lie to us. We can't change the past, so it is important to focus on changing things in the future. It's not okay for you to lie to us anymore, just like it's not okay for your mother to lie either. She apologized and you need to as well. I'm fully behind your mother on this, and you need to change your attitude because it won't be tolerated in this house."

I agree. When my FWH first came home my daughter would listen to NOTHING that my FWH had to say, especially when it came to advice or correction. It took a LONG time for this rift to heal between them. Now, they have a great relationship. My daughter respects her dad now for the man he has become, especially knowing where he's been. But it took my husband admitting to her just how wrong he was and acknowledging how badly he hurt her, not just me, by his actions.

RB:


Doing great RB. And nothing wrong with a secret moment to enjoy the unintended consequences heaped on top of the bad choices.

Larry

Great suggestion,to which might be added, "And there are always consequences when we don't do right. Never, ever forget that."

Larry

I would be VERY careful being that stern with his daughter right now. She is reeling from her moms actions and is properly questioning her moms authority to speak on issues of morality right now. I actually applaud my son being able to express those feelings and for having the ability to discern from where he gets his moral direction at this time. I feel the same way for RB's daughter.

You handled it perfectly, IMHO. I agree that your wife needs to mend these bridges herself, at least for now. If you daughter is still speaking to your wife like this in 2 years, after seeing true repentance on WW's part, it would be a different story. But at this point, I'm not sure you can really expect her to have respect where none has been earned. I do think you were right to let her know she shouldn't be lying to you, though, and that two wrongs don't make a right. I strongly feel though, that if you force her to pretend everything is ok with WW, that she will become much more rebellious. Unfortuantely, what's happening now is just one of many consequences of adultery.

I’m guessing that I shouldn’t have given her that high 5 as she stormed off to her room either. Just kidding.

Jim, I had basically that exact conversation w/ DD12 last night although not that sternly. I just wanted her to know that I understand her hurt, but that I can't excuse her lying. I didn’t include the wife in it, but maybe I should have.

I am just getting worn down by all of this a little bit. Not only am I having to deal w/ my wife’s infidelity and resulting pregnancy, but to this point, I have also done most of the heavy lifting of recovery and now I am expected to deal with the fallout from the kids, all while working fulltime to support the family. I guess there is still a small part of me that want’s my wife to suffer a little more to make sure she really understands what she has done.

I told her last night that I would step in and not allow the kids to disrespect her. But, that her affair has not only damaged our marriage, but it has also damaged her relationship w/ the kids. I also told her that I couldn’t “fix” things between her and the kids. She is the only one who can do that.

I think maybe I’m just a little tired. Hopefully I can get a few days of rest this weekend and get recharged for all that’s still to come.

Hi Runnerboy -

"I am just getting worn down by all of this a little bit"
"I think maybe I’m just a little tired"

You are really stepping up to the plate and being a good dad and husband, but don't forget to take time out for yourself to be refreshed. Run, go for a walk, find a quiet place to meditate, things like that...healthy ways to become rejuvenated.

I would tell a woman to get her hair and nails done - I'm not sure what men do. LOL. Play raquetball? Practice Karate? Anyway, remember to take care of yourself, too.

God bless,
Rose

Just a guess. but go running maybe?

"Just a guess. but go running maybe? "

LOL. That was my first guess, too!

I chuckled when I read this. Naw, you didn't have to physically give her a high 5. You gave her that by not stepping in at the exact moment she was being honest to her mom.

I think you did just fine. As long as the kids know there is a boundary as to how far they can go with their "honesty."

RB:

Welcome to the wonderful world of wearing horns.


No, it isn't fair. There is nothing fair about infidelity. There is nothing fair about the heavy lifting you will have to do for reasons you find appropriate and because of who you are. What you are dealing with is the consequences of choices your wife made and you had no part of making those choices.

Just like roughly half the males you see on the street (or more), you will wear the horns of a cockold the rest of your life even if you divorce. Yet all is not lost. You can mitigate this in your mind and the minds of the rest of us guys who are in the same place you are, by simply doing the right thing with honor, dignity and logic as best you can.


Absolutely right. You have responsibility for the kids. You have no obligation to protect your wife from all the consequences of her bad choices.

And as the consequences of her choices pile up higher and higher, she likely gets lower and lower in her own mind. Your wife can react in many different ways as she attempts to cope with the mess she choose to make of her life. You have chosen tough love and the white knight role. That suits your personality and status as a "real" man.

Good for you.

Larry

Your wife is terrible in my opinion. She should have a big letter tatooed on her forehead. Oh the pregnancy is that letter. How heinous. I feel for you and dont know how you can stand it. Wow.

Of course you are tired and worn down! I think you have been running on adrenaline and the knowlege that at some point you will have to formulate a definite plan. But an occasional "crash" is almost inevitable. This is one of the reasons many of us would recommend not making final decision just yet.
In the meantime, I am praying for you to have some rest and clarity of mind.

She’s no worse than any other wayward. She’s just my wayward.

The running comment made me laugh. I just might do that tonight. I have gone from running 4 days a week when this started to only once or twice a week.

I did get a little stress relief today at lunch. I took my .45 to the local gun range and did a little target shooting. I wrote OM’s name on the top of a silhouette target and proceeded to castrate him with an entire clip. I’m thinking maybe I should mail it to him. Just Kidding! I think I made the guy in the lane next to me a little uneasy by running target after target down the lane and then obliterating the crotch of the target.

I can relate, i am just now getting back up to 5M 4Xweek 5 months after D-day. Before that I was thinking about getting up to marathon distance this year. Maybe next year.


LOL, yes, I would be somewhat perturbed by that!

Ooooooooo.....I did that too. What a great stress relief.

Mine's a 1944 M1911 produced by Remington Rand complete with cavalry lanyard. All I changed were the sites to 3-point combat.

Yep, I did some paper Gollum huntin' during my tour.



Ha! I did that too!

ROFLMAO

i too think that you handled things fine.

i also think that you need to be next to your w when/if she has her talks with the kids. i believe this will send a very strong message to your children that you are going to stand beside her and with your marriage and family. that this doesn't have to divide the family it can actually pull you together.

there should be several messages being sent. consequences for ones actions, still maintaining respect, 2 wrongs don't make it right, forgiveness, compassion and who knows how many more.

when my w had her A our 19 yo dd was living with us. her and her mom had a huge falling out for exactly the same reason. my w was telling dd how to be careful about further preg's and std's and then she herself turns up preg from om.

i understand exactly how you feel saying that you feel your w should suffer a little bit more. or did you say alot more? just kidding.

you know that is just the pain and anger talking? right?

Crackin up with the "high 5" line

RB,

I liked the high 5 idea. I thought I would weigh in with a few other thoughts though.

My W and I have had more than a few friends divorce. There were many reasons, most not good in my opinion but no one asked. However, there was almost a universal constant following the divorce and that was the kids playing both ends against the middle. In the long run the kids hurt themselves and they sure do hurt both parents.

Your daughters behavior is constant with that of an adolscent girl of her age. And her response is consistent with a child playing both ends against the other. While she blames your W or at least uses her actions against her, she is very likely to have done this no matter what IF she could have found a way to leverage this into someone elses fault.

So while you are entitled to want a little payback, it may come at a higher cost than you realize now. The trouble with teenagers is if the go off course at 13-14, it is really hard to get them back on course before they hit the age where they KNOW EVERYTHING 15-17.

So please think about this and talk with your W about it. Your daughter does have anger and she is really entitled to that anger, but you cannot let her hurt herself in the process. I think your message needs to be more encompassing than it was.

Just as your W actions hurt more than her or yourself, your daughter lying and using your W as an excuse to ignore parental advice, rules, expectations has broader consequences than she realizes. She herself could be hurt by this (hence the parental rules right? ), you are hurt by this (you don't need more to deal with right), your family could be hurt...more (if your W gets really down, she may quit and leave the marriage (physically or mentally) and then all will be hurt more.

You are trying to hold your family together. You are entitled and justified in your need for a bit of revenge if you will, but the idea is to win the war not just a battle. If your W loses faith in her family and their support, she my check out mentally and/or physically. Then all of YOUR hard work and pain will have been wasted.

THis is what makes real recovery sooooo hard. THe balancing act that a BS must go through, and then ultimately the FWS must also go through. You have done so well.

Hang in there.

God Bless,

JL

Hmmm, for the first time in my life im having an overwhelming urge to excerise my 2nd Ammendment rights!!

Where can I buy those crotch targets??

RB, have you see Dr. Harleys video on infidelity? It might come in handy right now. http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi6806_inf.html

RB:

This post, which I quoted whole, is why JL is such a valuable asset on this support forum, IMHO. If he were to ever leave, I would do my best to find him and drag him back.

Teenagers have tons of time to plot and scheme. And reality is ignored while they follow their near uncontrollable emotions around.

I mentioned your wife getting down in my last post to you. JL said what I should have expanded and said although I was thinking about it. What you don't want to happen is to have your wife give up. There are still kids to raise and a life to live.

And your wife is a run of the mill, scripted and likely temporary infidel who needs to climb back up the ladder after her fall. And yes, you are right, she is yours. As time goes on, I think that simple statement is going to take on a new dimension that will benefit both of you in many ways. Your common sense, compassion, honor and dignity is a credit to your manhood.

Larry

Ditto that Larry.

I totally agree that children disrespecting parents REGARDLESS of their flaws while not to be unexpected is also unacceptable in the longer term. If RB is able to forgive his wife and HE is the one who has been cruely betrayed, the kids need to accept that as well.

<donning my asbestos undies>

Between the firing range and my run last night, I feel much better today. Thanks to all of you yesterday who reminded me that this is a long, hard road. While I do want her to fully understand the pain she has caused, I don’t want it to destroy her in the process. After all, the goal is for all of us to recover and have a better marriage and family than before.

Also, for those who commented about the issue with DD12, I may have given her a virtual high5 in my head, but the reality is that she had it explained to her quite clearly that her lying and disobedience was unacceptable. She also lost her cell phone for a week. I know that doesn’t sound like punishment for most of us, but for a 12, almost 13, y/o it is bordering on cruel and unusual punishment.

I also had a great talk with my wife last night, where we went through our ENQ’s. As expected, her top two were admiration and conversation, neither of which come easy for me. Mine on the other hand are Recreational companionship and SF (which she has met wonderfully over the past 3 days). We also talked about how we could go about meeting those needs for one another. It took about 2 hours, but it was well worth the time. Now comes the hard part which is meeting those needs.

Also, thanks Melody for the video link. I will watch it tonight.

"""""""" but for a 12, almost 13, y/o it is bordering on cruel and unusual punishment.


rb you will get thru this just fine. you are showing enormous strength, wisdom, guidance for your family, character, compassion and you haven't lost your sense of humor

cudoos to you

My sense of humor is one of the few things helping me get through all of this.

I have another story that’s kind of funny. DD19 went to get some contracts out of my car this afternoon and found my targets from the gun range. When she came in, she put the contracts on my desk, pulled the targets from behind her back, and said “you really shouldn’t leave these lying around or people are going to find out just how disturbed you really are.” I just laughed and told her it was too bad that I didn’t have ESP or I could have prevented all of this with a few well placed shots a few months ago.

She had noticed that I had about 10 of the silhouette targets with the crotch shot out and only about ½ of them had OM’s name on it. So I told her the others are for me to hang around the house when she brings a new boyfriend home and they are blank so I can write his name on them to “encourage” him to be a gentleman.

On the Plan A front, I am planning a little surprise picnic for just the 2 of us tonight. I’m going to pick up some Chinese takeout from one of her favorite restaurants and take her to a little park down the road where they have a summer music series. It sounds a little hokey to me, but DD19 assures me that I’ll score major points.

Continue to take your DDs advice. My H is a master at that sort of spontaneous event and it NEVER grows old!

God's Blessings,

Say