Never in a million years did I EVER think I would be here - in a forum for people coping with and recovering from affairs. I'm sure no one else did either.

I'm sorry I just DON'T get it. The MINDSET of a WS... Can someone please help me understand it?

My short story: Married 15 years, husband had affair with co-worker, OW's H called to tell me about it. OWH works out of town a lot, they were going to her house to have "sexual relations", same story as all the others on this site, hundreds and hundreds of phone calls, emails, text messages, couldn't wait until the next time he could just hear her voice.

Lots of people at work knew, no one called me, it was condoned or other co-workers just didn't know what to do. The exposure brought shame, embarrassment and shocked him back into reality. NC since D-Day - a requirement for me to stay in the marriage.

The 1st few months lots of blaming me, then admitted it was totally his choice. He says it was a big mistake and he wants it to just go away.

I have cried or screamed every single day since March D-Day. I just don't understand it. I have read every book there is to read on Affairs now. I know it is an addiction, a fantasy life, a get-away from reality, someone else is meeting their needs, it was so important to get that need met that men and women will risk EVERYTHING to "feel good"

So many people hurt in the process, such a selfish thing to do.

Why do affairs happen so often? It's just hard to believe that so many people are willing to risk EVERYTHING for a self-esteem boost. My husbands exact words "I loved the way she made me feel, she worshipped the ground I walked on, she was always happy and positive, she gave me awesome compliments about my bedroom perfomance" - I may throw up now excuse me...

COME ON....this isn't REAL. WS's HAVE to know that this is a life with no problems, no stress, no kids, no homework, no bills, no in-laws, no college tuition, no death, no teenagers problems, no baseball, soccer or cheerleading practices to get to. A stress-free, care-free fantasy life. Certainly they see this???

I'm hurt, angry and insulted that she would smile to my face at my husbands job knowing she was sleeping with him the whole time. Boy, it sure makes you NEVER want to trust anyone again.

An affair is a cruel thing to do to your husband/wife and family. Some of these posts say healing time is 12-24 months - WOW. We had discussed "people who had affairs" so many times in the past - now I'm one of them. I was so niave and trusting.

Just trying to accept and learn from it and what a hard lesson it is. One minute I am fine and the next tears are flowing from a memory of an old conversation or event triggered.

I go from sad to mad to rage in 6.3 seconds flat.

Welcome to MB. So sorry you find yourself here. You're right about on schedule for the anger and rage. It DOES take a long time to recover. Has your husband answered ALL of your questions about the affair? Has he been willing to turn over all passwords, cell phone records, etc. to you? Is he an open book now?

Is he still working with OW? If so, there IS contact and you guys will never fully recover. As long as there is ANY type of contact, visual, etc. recovery isn't happening.

I've got to run but I'm sure some others will be along to tell you more about what Dr. Harley says about true recovery.

LynnLee,

I know exactly how you feel. I still can't believe it and it’s been 4 months for me. My situation was the same exact thing. Co-worker, a year, but no one knew about it at her office. My WW was the sweetest/religious woman in the world. I was very trusting. I read about the two year recovery and almost fainted at the thought. She wanted the same thing, “Lets just move forward!” You can’t just move forward and forget about it. It takes them about three months to realize they are a complete fool for falling into that mess. I then had an RA that lasted about a month and that did relieve some of the rage/hurt as I had a similar experience, but nowhere near as long as her A. I just couldn’t stomach going through this taking the entire hit, so now she has similar thoughts/images as I do.(Don’t do this! It just complicated everything more) We both understand the hurt the other is experiencing. I also recently moved out because we would spend way too much time rehashing the As. Now, I call her, come by the house at night, and we go on dates. We are also in MC and individual counseling. Basically we are starting the relationship completely over. The funny thing through all this is she has become the jealous one???!! “Who are you calling?” “Where were you last night?” Sometimes people just lose their mind. I’m just glad I kept myself in shape all the years and I am still relatively young. Good Luck!

LL,

Welcome. You seem to have a handle on A's. That's unfortunate, but it's a step in the process...one of many.

What you are feeling is NORMAL. Your emotions will be all over the place for some time. Go easy on yourself, realize that you have been through a real trauma. And it's going to take a lot of time for you to get back to feeling "normal". Yes, the scars will still be there and the thoughts won't be too far away. But you can get to a point where you are happy again and "stable", LOL.

Have you two really started R? Do you understand the condition of your M pre-A and how that contributed to this situation? Do you both know eachothers' ENs and how to meet them?

Is your H remorseful? Is he transparent? Is he willing to do whatever it takes to help you recover?

Lots of questions I know. But it helps us see where you are at.

Your personal healing will fall on your shoulders. It's not fair, but it's true. Your H will only be able to do so much to take away your pain. YOU are the one who will have to work through it. And this is a great place to do it.

Stick around, post, ask questions...

We'll be here.

You hit the nail on the head with this statement. I've only been about 2 months from d-day and 1 month from my WS establishing no contact. but the affair participants can't see the reality of what they are doing. They are so caught up in the surreal part of it where there ARE NO responsibilities.

Thanks to all for your posts. Let's see YES, my H is remorseful, willing to do whatever it takes to make the marriage work. And Yes, the M pre-A was not the greatest but I sure didn't think it was so bad that an A was possible. We went to counseling for about 2 months, then I went alone for a month, now we do not go at all.

I read the His Needs Her Needs Book. We did the questionarres, we now know each top 5 EN I was not meeting his top 2 EN but above and beyond the bottom 3 EN. He was not meeting my top 4. But I didn't go out and have an affair, I just lived without them being met. We are both working on meeting them now for one another. And we have had discussions about well, what happens NEXT time I don't meet your top need - what will you do?

He swares he will never cause this much pain to me again. But I am sorry I don't trust anyone right now, especially him. We are taking one night a week to go on a date. I am working off stress by talking with friends and going to the gym, taking care of myself. He can only handle so much with the guilt he feels I know.

I wonder about intimacy with him now. That was the number one EN I was not meeting often enough. I see images of them together and I start to cry and have to stop right there. He said his A started sexual then became emotional which is a little different than the normal pattern I read.

I've learned so much over the past few months. I never knew the devastating damage A's do. I hope and pray mine is one that can recover and be stronger, it's hard to imagine right now. The hurt and anger overwhelm me.

By the way the OW divorced her H, she thought mine would leave me and he didn't. She is younger than me by 13 years. My husband is successful, I bet she is disappointed - if I were her I would sure feel stupid.

It has been now 5 months, still seems like yesterday.

one of many excellent links

I'll try to dig up my favorite one

be back later ..... check this post later

Pep

"COME ON....this isn't REAL. WS's HAVE to know that this is a life with no problems, no stress, no kids, no homework, no bills, no in-laws, no college tuition, no death, no teenagers problems, no baseball, soccer or cheerleading practices to get to. A stress-free, care-free fantasy life. Certainly they see this???"

Here your own wisdom! Listen carefully to what you are saying!

This is so important. I would like to share YOUR OWN WISDOM with you here.

I am terribly sorry you are in this raging pain. It would be terrible.

What you are saying I think, correct me if I am wrong, is that in your marriage, your life is very stressful and busy:

1. My marriage in real life is busy
2. There are problems
3. There is stress
4. There are kids
5. There is kids homework and adults homework
6. There are bills
7. There are in-laws
8. There is baseball to be involved in and drag kids to
9. There is soccer to bring kids to
10. There is cheerleading practice to get to
11. There are teenagers problems
12. There is the reality of death

Now, what do you observe here????

I will make some observations as a woman, and a wife, who's husband never had an affair. I am just a human being giving an observation. That may help you.

I see that you have a very busy stressful life. You are saying, here, that this is NORMAL to have such a busy stressful expensive pressure filled life. I DISAGREE!

I believe you have chosen this lifestyle! It is busy, expensive, stressful and FILLED with responsibility for children, childrens lives, childrens benefit, etc.

I have a feeling you two dont have much time alone to be quiet and just love one another. How could you have time when you have all this going on?

Your lives sound like one big pressure cooker of stress. How can this be healthy? I believe with a life like this, you cannot keep your marriage affair proof. Because though it feels normal to you to live this way and have this busy lifestyle, yet, this lifestyle is NOT healthy. It is NOT happy. It is NOT affair proof. It is NOT addiction proof.

WITH SUCH A LIFESTYLE AS YOU HAVE CHOSEN, SPOUSES, OR ANY HUMAN BEING, WOULD WANT TO ESCAPE SOME WAY... SOME HOW, BUT THERE IS NO ESCAPING IT. THE ONLY ESCAPE IS DEATH.

Ask yourself these questions:

1. Where is your life in all this stress?

2. Where is the wonderful three times a week lovemaking with you and your husband?

3. Where is the quiet haven in your home when your husband gets back there from work?

4. Where are the healthy meals and relaxing fires in the evening?

5. Where is that quiet glass of wine shared between you two?

6. Where are the rewards in life for which your husband has sacrificed his life working for??

7. What are the rewards to YOU for all YOUR hard work?

8. In your busy life, where are the breaks? Where are the vacations without the children? What happened to the romance?

9. Where is the passion in your marriage?

10. Where is your passion in your own life?

11. Where is the new learning opportunities with you and your husband?

12. Where is the mental health in your marriage?

13. Where is the peace and quiet in your marriage?

14. Where is the outright FUN in your marriage?

15. Is there FUN in your marriage without the kids?

16. Where is the respect between you and your husband?

17. When can your husband retire?

18. When will you and your husband start having FUN together?


OK, I am done! lol!.

I hope you can get something out of this. What I am saying in a nutshell is that it appears that you two, as a married couple, happened to get in the rut of extreme busyness and stress like many married people do......especially married people who have families. Then, with all this stress, and all this lack of precious TIME, how do you have any time at all for EACH OTHER to nurture each other and the marriage??

Why is your husband working so hard for? When can he retire? never? What has he got to look forward to? Is he happy with just you , the kids, and the busy... stressful... expensive... neverending task oriented life????

Let me make some assumptions. Take 'em or leave 'em!

I feel your husband feels your lifestyle YOU BOTH CHOSE is now a miserable lifestyle. He may feel trapped even if he cannot admit it to you due to his supporting a big family, sports, colleges, etc. The financial pressures never end. He may feel that he has no quiet, freedom, fun, laughter, or romance WITH YOU. He may wish for a simpler, more sane lifestyle that he had in the past. He may realize that though he helped create the lifestyle you both have chosen, he feels trapped in that impossible lifestyle and his youth is dissapearing as he is a human wallet trying to keep all these stressful balls in the air.

I have to lay this out to you since to prevent an affair, you have to help a husband want to come home, and to come home.... to you!

Well Lynn -- you are making the mistake of thinking he was CHOOSING between you and OW. He wasn't. He had BOTH.

Exactly,

One is REALITY, the other is FANTASY...Having that FANTASY can prove to be expensive....You lose everything..Your self-respect, others respect, dignity, life-long burden to carry, spouse, career, etc. Its just AWFUL and why all the years I would be so tempted, but I knew the sheet would hit the fan and my life would be over! I think my WW is experiencing all that now. When she confessed, all I said was "I'm glad it was you and not me!"

Good luck!

Dear LL,
I am sooo sorry you are here, but just know that you are in the right place. the people on these boards will help you SOOOO much - as they have helped me.

I was YOU one year ago. I was the screaming, crying out-of-control person. I so can feel everything that you say in your messages.

You seem to be right on track. Do not worry about the hurt emotions you have- THEY ARE NORMAL!!

if someone stabbed you in the chest, wouldnt you be gushing blood?? You H has stabbed you in the heart every time he had contact, sexual or not, with his OW.

Let yourself grieve for the death of the marriage you thought you had. SOMETHING BIG HAS DIED - AND IT IS YOUR DREAM OF HOW YOU THOUGHT YOUR LIFE WOULD BE.

You need to CRY- but not as a victim- cry as a person who sees your pain and wants to release it. Tell yourself that YOU are making yourself cry, and then bring all the pain to yourself in your thoughts. SOB and cry. YOu will feel emotional release and healing when you are done.

You may have to repeat this a few times- i did- until you start to feel better.

If you run from the pain and stuff it back inside- it will continue to haunt you and make you sick.

You seem like you are doing everything humanly possible to heal from this. THAT IS GREAT!!

YOu are so determined and right on track. Your perceptions tell me that you will make it and come out of this a much different person - more centered, more emotionally strong and more sure of yourself.

My d-day was a little over a year ago. My H had 12 affairs in 12 years and 3 were at work. all the people in his office knew about his affairs.

about sex- i am not too helpful here - because i am struggling with feeling attracted to my H also. i am working on getting the mental pictures of hime with the OW out of my head.

the more sure i am of his TOTAL CHARACTER TRANSFORMATION- the more i trust him.

it is not a straight uphill climb. you go up two steps and down one. dont worry. just stay the course.

focus on yourself and making yourself happy and complete.

the MB stuff is great. Have you read this book "How to heal a Painful Relationship" by Bill Ferguson? this book was life altering for me.

his basic premise to any healing is that the first step is to

ACCEPT THE TRUTH.

this is so hard because then you have to accept that the person you loved the most and trusted the most , hurt you the most.

but you must take this first step to move forward.

you are totally right- i think people who cheat are a different breed. they are more BROKEN inside than people like us, who are also suffering in marriages, but decide to remain true and honest.

i have learned so much this past year. i cant say yet that i am HAPPY that he had the As, but i can certainly see where i have benefited in so many ways.

I am more complete.
I am more centered.
I am happier about life and more hopeful for the future.
My H will do WHATEVER IT TAKES to make the marriage work.
My H is no longer work obsessed.
My H no longer flirts with other women.
Our marriage finally has a chance to be the kind of marriage it could have been all along.

Just remember - God, or the Universe or Life, sent you this situation to teach you something. LEARN from it.

SF

LynnLee.

Stellakat just posted the most important piece of advice disguised as a questionnaire you are ever likely to get in your life. Well, if having a quality relationship with another human being is one of your needs.

No, not everyone in your situation has an affair. You didn't. But of those who do, some had opportunity and some made the opportunity. It is what it is.

You are not responsible for his choice. BUT, you are 50% to 100% responsible for the state of your marriage prior to his bad choice.

To answer your question, affairs are a cosmic joke. They are most often based on one of two factors, PEA poisoning or entitlement. Entitlement affairs are done by unrepentant jerks of either sex. PEA is the infatuation brain chemical that destroys judgement among other things. There are several threads on the subject.

It has taken me three years to finally reach the stage where I can look at my wife's affair with some level of objectivity.

I wish you well.

Larry

I don't think you ever answered this. Are they still working for the same company?

OK, so WHEN does this NEED TO KNOW end? Everytime I think I have asked enough questions regarding the DETAILS of the affair -something will trigger a memory or past conversation and I will then ask more questions. WHY CAN'T I LET IT GO? The need to know more details - it only hurts me. It's crazy I know. My WH is tired of answering questions. Why isn't him saying "I'm so sorry, I will spend the rest of my life making this up to you" enough???

Why can some people just FORGIVE and NEVER bring it up again? And why do others keep the questions going for months, even years. If I continue, I don't think he will be able to take it.

Would love some feedback.

LL,

I know you feel like you're crazy for needing to know everything about his A. But if that is in your personality then not knowing will drive you crazy. A lot of people have this need to know. They need to know what REALITY really was at the time.

Knowing all the facts can be very difficult. But wondering about them for years is NOT healthy either. I suggest writing down your questions and letting them sit for a few days, if after that time period you still feel that need, then ask them.

Some people may disagree, but it is a personal choice to hear every little detail.

I also recommend getting answers to your questions sooner rather than later. New details can set a BS back. Almost putting you into another D day.

I promise you there will come a time when you are done obsessing and wondering. It just takes time.

I think after about a year, I stopped asking those questions.

LL, read this. It might help you to understand your need to know.

"To Whomever,

"I know you are feeling the pain of guilt and confusion. I understand that you wish all this never happened and that you wish it would just go away. I can even believe that you truly love me and that your indiscretion hurts you emotionally much the same way it hurts me. I understand your apprehension to me discovering little by little, everything that led up to your indiscretion, everything that happened that night, and everything that happened afterwards. I understand. No one wants to have a mistake or misjudgment thrown in his or her face repeatedly. No one wants to be forced to "look" at the thing that caused all their pain over and over again. I can actually see, that through your eyes, you are viewing this whole thing as something that just needs to go away, something that is over, that he/she doesn't mean anything to you, so why is it such a big issue? I can understand you wondering why I torture myself with this continuously, and thinking, doesn't he/she know by now that I love him/her? I can see how you can feel this way and how frustrating it must be. But for the remainder of this letter I'm going to ask you to view my reality through my eyes.

"You were there. There is no detail left out from your point of view. Like a puzzle, you have all the pieces and you are able to reconstruct them and be able to understand the whole picture, the whole message, or the whole meaning. You know exactly what that picture is and what it means to you and if it can effect your life and whether or not it continues to stir your feelings. You have the pieces, the tools, and the knowledge. You can move through your life with 100% of the picture you compiled. If you have any doubts, then at least you're carrying all the information in your mind and you can use it to derive conclusions or answers to your doubts or question. You carry all the "STUFF" to figure out OUR reality. There isn't really any information, or pieces to the puzzle that you don't have.

"Now let's enter my reality. Let's both agree that this affects our lives equally. The outcome no matter what it is well affect us both. Our future and our present circumstances are every bit as important to me as it is to you. So, why then is it okay for me to be left in the dark? Do I not deserve to know as much about the night that nearly destroyed our relationship as you do? Just like you, I am also able to discern the meaning of certain particulars and innuendoes of that night and just like you, I deserve to be given the opportunity to understand what nearly brought our relationship down. To assume that I can move forward and accept everything at face value is unrealistic and unless we stop thinking unrealistically I doubt our lives well ever "feel" complete. You have given me a puzzle. It is a 1000 piece puzzle and 400 random pieces are missing. You expect me to assemble the puzzle without the benefit of looking at the picture on the box. You expect me to be able to discern what I am looking at and to appreciate it in the same context as you. You want me to be as comfortable with what I see in the picture as you are. When I ask if there was a tree in such and such area of the picture you tell me don't worry about it, it's not important. When I ask whether there were any animals in my puzzle you say don't worry about it, it's not important. When I ask if there was a lake in that big empty spot in my puzzle you say, what's the difference, it's not important. Then later when I'm expected to "understand" the picture in my puzzle you fail to understand my disorientation and confusion. You expect me to feel the same way about the picture as you do but deny me the same view as you. When I express this problem you feel compelled to admonish me for not understanding it, for not seeing it the way you see it. You wonder why I can't just accept whatever you chose to describe to me about the picture and then be able to feel the same way you feel about it.

"So, you want me to be okay with everything. You think you deserve to know and I deserve to wonder. You may honestly feel that the whole picture, everything that happened is insignificant because in your heart you know it was a mistake and wish it never happened. But how can I know that? Faith? Because you told me so? Would you have faith if the tables were turned? Don't you understand that I want to believe you completely? But how can I? I can never know what is truly in your mind and heart. I can only observe you actions, and what information I have acquired and slowly, over time rebuild my faith in your feelings. I truly wish it were easier.

"So, there it is, as best as I can put it. That is why I ask questions. That is where my need to know is derived from. And that is why it is unfair for you to think that we can effectively move forward and unfair for you to accuse me of dwelling on the past. My need to know stems from my desire to hold our world together. It doesn't come from jealousy, it doesn't come from spitefulness, and it doesn't come from a desire to make you suffer. It comes from the fact that I love you. Why else would I put myself through this? Wouldn't it be easier for me to walk away? Wouldn't it be easier to consider our relationship a bad mistake in my life and to move on to better horizons? Of course it would, but I can't and the reason I can't is because I love you and that reason in itself makes all the difference in the world."

(end of Joseph's Letter)
_________________________

Thank you so much for this letter MicheleG. The wording is perfect and exactly how I feel. I may just print it off and give it to my H.

He will answer questions I ask with a simple YES or No - but there is NO elaboration on anything, nothing is volunteered. He tells me as little as possible. Now let me be honest here, I also accept responsibility right after D-Day acting CRAZY when he would answer my questions....such as "YOU DID WHAT" "ARE YOU INSANE" "DIDN'T YOU THINK ABOUT THE CONSEQUENCES" so I understand MY reactions were not welcoming and sometimes now 5 months later I still cannot control my reactions to some of the details. The whole thing is just so out of character for him.

But the short reluctant answers sometimes too tell me he is hiding information and that sets me off with anger.

It just hurts...the bottom line is...it hurts and I am looking for it all to "make sense" when it makes no sense.

Maybe this will help....

Inside the Wayward Mind

Here's Josephs letter.

Josephs Letter

These links were huge in helping me better understand the mindset of a WS. It's as if he were a different person all together during this time. He did tell me that he would tell himself negative things about me to make what he was doing OK, justified. Now he says he just can't believe he did it.

I have to choose to move on, it's a choice. I have to choose to try to be happy and learn from this tragedy.

LL,

That's true...you do have to choose to move on. So it's good to know what lays ahead of you.

You will have good times and bad...the rollercoaster. At times you will be glad you stayed..others you'll wonder why you did.

R is a process that should be worked through. Don't try to avoid all the bad feelings...understand them, accept them, then try to let them go.

Make communication between you and your H a safe place. If he divulges information...thank him for his honesty. If you need to vent...come here.

Work on you. Work on the issues in your M that were a problem. Eliminate behaviors of yours that created stepping stones that led to this event.

It's a marathon, not a sprint. Most days you won't feel any improvement...but there will be.

Read these posts. Understanding that EVERYTHING that you feel is NORMAL should put your mind at ease.

Would your WH post here?

No he would not post here. He doesn't know anything about this site.

So, here's a question. I wonder why some WS's DO see the light, come in from Fantasy Land, decide not to throw it all away... and some DON'T. Do you think it is all self-esteem issues?

I can only speak for myself and MY sitiation. I think my H is a good man who made a very bad choice then got so caught up in it, he felt trapped and just didn't know what to do. He wasn't thinking straight and now he feels so much guilt and shame.

But I read all these posts where the WS doesn't want to give up the OW or OM and the BS WAITS on them to come to their "right mind" for months or years. I don't think I could do that - but I don't know what I would do - I never thought I would even be where I am now. So, I cannot judge any situation.

Are they still working together? I keep asking because this is VERY important to your recovery. As long as there is ANY contact, recovery is stalled if not undone.

I have been reading these posts you sent me now for days. Basically, an affair can happen to pretty much anyone, very fast, before you even know. It all starts with "a thought" that grows. I guess since my H knew, we discussed hundreds of times, of my parents divorce and dads A, that caused a rough childhood for me that he knew the pain I had already suffered and he would never do it. Rather he told me he would never do it. I guess I really through it would never happen to me.

The shock stage took me a little long to get through. Glad to hear you are in a 12 year good recovery. It's inspiring. Thank You!

Yes, they work for the same company but not the same building. He is across town at a different location. He transferred right after D-Day. They have no contact and no reason to have any contact. They do two different jobs. I ride by both places, check emails, cell phones, home phones, milage on his car. I still check up. I do not trust yet nor should I.

This is good, except for maybe when it comes time for company-wide functions. Do you guys have a plan in place if that happens? This is part of the extraordinary precautions he needs to take to protect you and his marriage.

You're right. You shouldn't trust yet, that will come with time and will be hard-earned by him. Good job on the continued snooping. That will taper off eventually as well.

You ask an outstanding question here - one I still have yet to fully understand myself.

I do think that self esteem has something to do with it. But frankly, even more than that, I think some WS's are just too stupid. I know that sounds means, but honestly, that is how it appears to me.

When someone is generally a good person, well respected, not usually considered to be a liar, but they get involved in an A, a lot of those people eventually reach a point where they KNOW that it is wrong. They KNOW that it will end badly. But they have a really hard time breaking out of the A for a lot of reasons. They know it is wrong, and would like to break the cycle, but they need help. those people are "smart enough" to get it (I am sure there is a much better way to say that)

But then there are others who never see anything wrong with the A, they can never look to the future and see how it will end badly, so they just continue on that bad path.

My ex falls into that category - I always thought of him as "naive", sort of gullible, not very socially sophisticated. to this day he would tell you that none of his A's were bad, or wrong. They were people who he loved, who loved him back. That is it. nothing wrong with that. I recall him saying that "these things happen all the time, why does everyone think it is a big deal".

the reason I ended up filing for D, was because I knew he would never understand what was "bad" or wrong with what he had done, so he would eventually go down that same path. I could see that any woman could come onto him, and he would not understand why he could, or should, say no.

But I have seen many other WS's who do understand that they should say no, they can say no, and they will.

It sure sounds like your H is one of those people who is smart enough to "get it".

Yes, these things DO happen all the time and how many good outcomes are there? How many people have we all known who have had an A, left a good husband or wife for ANOTHER person only to find out that when REALITY sets in - this new relationship has more problems than the old one. And my most FAMOUS saying in life is...."If they will cheat WITH you, then they will cheat ON you" and people actually think that that wonderful person they cheated with would NEVER cheat on them. Any relationship that starts off with betrayal isn't a good relationship. It's down right funny when you think about it.

Sounds like you have found happiness now in life after going through this.

My situation was the same. My FWH told me he felt so relieved the night I confronted him...but at the time I didn't want him to feel good about anything. He felt trapped in the A. He was afraid she would tell me and he would have been right.

I don't know why some WS get it and some don't. It's in their "genetic makeup" I guess. Just be glad yours does.

You said he doesn't know about this forum, but he does know about MB principles right? They have a proven track record.

LynnLee,

Very sorry for the pain you are in. My husband was also very hesitant to answer my questions and gave the usual he was "protecting me" BS. Just last night we got in a fight because something new popped into my head and I wanted an answer. Of course in his head he probably hears it as the same stuff and doesn't want to keep rehashing it to death. He was mad but he still answered me and when he cooled off a bit I even thanked him afterwards for helping me.

If you have something new to ask or want clarification on something you already know, I'd make a list of questions as previously suggested. It's very easy to forget half the questions you want answered when your emotions are all over the place. Our MC told me I didn't need to know any details. The knowledge that my FWH cheated was all that mattered...we no longer see the MC.

The OWH gave me a lot of info when I first contacted him and my husband response was to deny 90% of it. I knew the OWH wasn't just pulling stuff out the air and my husband had zero credibility so who was I going to believe? I was tired of being hit by a bus every few days when some new detail would surface or I'd think back to a certain time frame that had red flags all over it and get emotionally and physically ill knowing some other bomb was about to blow up in my face. I told FWH not to talk to me anymore until he was willing to do as he said...do ANYTHING to help me. Just prepare yourself (if that's even possible.) If you have children, I'd advise not having them in the house. For my husband to tell me the details out loud sent him into a much deeper self loathing. In his head he could still minimize just how bad his behavior was or save face to a degree but having to hear himself say it made him want to kick his own a$$ for being such a pig. While the details made my husband only look like a bigger jacka$$ than I thought, in some ways it made me feel better to see the affair for the big joke that it was.

My FWH dropped his hobag without a second thought and is disgusted by his stupidity and selfishness. The OW had left her husband; supposedly she was planning to leave her hubby long before my husband entered the picture. Whether that's her spin or not, I know she was waaaay more emotionally involved than he ever was and now she has nobody. I know she feels like a complete idiot and is struggling financially.

I will never understand a person's willingness to hurt their spouse and family with an affair either. You can't make sense of the something that just doesn't make sense. You need to accept that it happened and there is nothing that can change it. It took me months to stop driving myself crazy asking how could he do this to me, our kids, etc. I still have to tell myself to stop with that sort of thinking when I feel it creeping in because no good will come of it.

Good luck to you. I know you feel like a crazy woman some times, but you sound very rational to me.

LynnLee - just to encourage you.

You are right on track with your feelings and emotions right now. You are expressing the exact same hopes and fears and questions all BS's go through in recovery almost verbatim.

I am now, 3 years out from d-day and 3 years into recovery and I still think about the affair a fair bit even though it doesn't hurt so much anymore and my wife was/is a model FWW.

Adultery is a traumatic, life altering experience.

Our marriage today is at a point that we probably could not have reached without some kind of trauma like this so for that at least I am grateful. We have a wonderful loving marriage now.

It takes lots of time to process all this and come through it.

If your husband is being evasive and giving yes and no answers he needs to read Josephs letter and make a full account. You will be unable to move on until he satisfies you with answers. And sometimes you will ask the same questions again a few weeks and months later. Merely because you need to process what happened to your life.

What you are experiencing IS NORMAL. and you CAN make it through better and stronger than ever.

Thank you for the positive feedback. I shared the "Josephs Letter" with my H last night. It was powerful. He said he has been ashamed and embarrassed to give me the details I've needed. He said NOW he sees how stupid it all was and how he cannot believe he participated in it so long. He said he really thought he loved her, now he knows what they had was NOT love.

He also said that in my "rage and ranting" times I have called her (OW) every name in the book. He brought to my attention that since she was also married that everything I was saying about her was also true about him. I never throught about it like that but it is true.

They were BOTH married, Both had children so every time I called her :
1.) sorry excuse for a mother
2.) low life piece of trash with NO MORALS
3.) physically ugly

...and so on... you get the picture. I guess the part that makes me so angry is that it was carried on right in front of me so many times. That part is hard for me to come to terms with. I was just too trusting.

LL,
Unfortunately, he had no morals at the time and he was a poor example of a father. He was tearing down his family for his own selfish wants. But that doesn't mean that he can't redeem himself and be a man of superior fabric and a wonderful father now.

It's hard on the WSs who come around and SEE what they have done. Some are brought to their knees.

Yet he can work through this guilt, accept what he did and be the driving force that carves out the new M. He CAN lead the way. He does not have to be defined by a mistake.

You two need to work the plan. It takes knowledge and determination. Make sure you both have it.

The past few days have been, not so good, in moving forward. I still have days when my anger overwhelms me, then I cry for a long time. Triggers, I can sometimes overcome and sometimes I can't. I know my H just wants to "fix it" but he can't.

Question: Does moving to a new city or state help? Or do you just worry that it will happen again with someone new in another city? Does moving mean running away? Because let's face it there are men and women at EVERY job in every state that are looking for someone to meet their needs. And it looks as if the job is the most common place for affairs to start.

You know you think your husband or wife is safe at work - boy it that wrong. Has anyone moved from the memories and things got better or worse. I guess to it depends on the age of the school kids too?

LL

Your WH has to understand the "whys" so he can understand how to protect your M from ever having to deal with another A. He has to learn his weaknesses, he has to establish boundaries, he has to avoid situations that can lead to A's.

Whatever led to the opportunity must be disallowed in the future or, yes, it could happen again.

He CANNOT allow someone other than you to meet his ENs. He CANNOT put himself in a position where this could happen. Sounds simple, but life is not. These "opportunities" are everywhere. So HE has to patrol HIMSELF and protect his weaknesses.

You also have to establish boundaries.

Moving away is a good idea if it is something that is feasible. As a BS, your life can be full of triggers just from your environment (not to mention the chance meeting with the OP). So leaving the area can be good. Dr Harley does recommend this.

Affair proofing your M is a must. You and your WH have to work as a team to get there, but he has a bigger part to play right now.

Michele,

Well moving is not really an option financially. Plus I would hate to take my teenagers out of the high school they love so much. The A is in every part of my life now. It never goes away. It's there in the decision making process of pretty much everything these days.

Yes, you are right. We do need to discuss more his weaknesses and what he will do next time, exactly. He needs to have a plan in place. We have discussed the OW so much and him avaoiding her that we need to cover other females in the future.

Of course he says, after all the damage, hurt and pain this one has caused he would never do it again. But we are still in the beginning stages of recovery.

It's hard, day to day, it's hard. I see why so many people do not make it through an affair.

So, at what point did you forgive your husband and start working on recovery? And at what point did you stop bringing it up?

I'm not Michele, but just wanted to comment on this and encourage you. There have been lots of discussions on MB about forgiveness, when to withhold it, when to give it, etc. For me personally, I forgave my husband once he returned home. But.... it took me a very long time to get over it and stop bringing it up. I didn't have MB to help me along, you do. I did so many things wrong in recovery that held us back far longer than necessary.

It began to get easier for me after about 2-3 YEARS. I mean, that's when I realized that I wasn't thinking about "it" every day. Now, 5 years later, we can talk about "it" and the hurt is a little stick (like they tell you at the doctor's office before you get a shot), LOL.

It does get easier and better. I can promise you that.

Oh, and you ARE working on recovery now. You're just in one phase of it.

Princess,

Thank you so much for the encouragement. I needed it today.

Personally, I started working on R immediately. Fortunately I had found MB during the spying process. I had found an email and it snowballed. The wise people on this forum helped me along. They advised me so I knew what to expect and what not to do.

I continued to bring up the A stuff for about a year and when I say A stuff it means questions like when, where, why, etc. We continued to talk about OW for quite sometime because we eventually had to have her arrested...long story. She is still a topic of conversation at times, because she keeps popping up (on the net and at events we are at). However talking about her is different at this point than talking about the A (if that makes sense).

Forgiveness...I would have to say that the beginning of forgiveness came the night I confronted him. But that was only the first phase. I had to forgive him over and over again. After every trigger, every thought, every reminder of every betrayal he committed.

Seems to me it comes in steps and not all at once.


LL, it IS hard. Some days your emotions will get the best of you, but time will help. I assure you if you two work the plan, work hard to R, and let time pass, you will R.

(((((LL))))))

One other thing LL, you are doing what you should be doing to get through this....asking questions, reading here. All the experiences that you read about will help you. You will be able to relate. You'll have lightbulb moments and breakthroughs. I've had it happen just writing a post. So keep doing what you're doing.

You're not alone.

And it feels GREAT not to be alone. Thank you so much! Those words are a comfort!

When I moved out to my own apt I stopped bringing it up. We just date, and I come by and see the kids, etc. We talk on the phone. I knew if I stayed there we'd just end up talking about it way too much. Time needs to pass. The only days that went by when I didn't think of it is when I had an RA. ie If your brain thinks you are moving on to someone else, the thoughts go away, at least in my case. I was thinking about OW all the time. SHE WAS HOT!!! hehe Once I got back w/ my wife, the triggers came back. Anti-depressants can help though.