I have been so disappointed for years and frustrated with my husbands lack of attention. I have told him this repeatedly with no results. I met someone online (No, I wasn't looking) who I began an emotional affair with. I told my husband what I had done (out of guilt)and we began counseling which brought no results. I went back to talking to this guy - I have never met him but talk to him online and on the phone an extreme amount. My husband doesn't even notice - that is how much attention he pays to me. I am frustrated at him and at myself and don't know what I should do. As for now we are looking at divorce. I feel almost addicted to talking to this guy as he is so nice and attentive. Is my marriage over?

I'm not surprised that counseling failed. Unfortunately, counselors have a failure rate of about 85% in helping end infidelity and restore marriages.

You say your husband doesn't notice but I would be very surprised if he doesn't. He is probably too hurt and/or angry to bring it up, and he probably doesn't know how to fix this problem. So he hopes it will go away.

Your marriage is not over.

You must end all contact with the other man, and give your husband your passwords to your accounts. Also ask him to install a key logger on the computer and have the reports emailed to him.

Also offer to switch phones with him whenever he requests, and/or change your cellphone number, and/or give up your cellphone.

Finally, schedule a Marriage Builders weekend for you and your husband. You will learn how to set (and enforce) appropriate boundaries so that you will not accidentally meet someone online when you're not looking - you'll be able to identify potential weak spots before they become an issue. Your husband will learn how to love you so that you feel loved. He can bust his tail trying to be the best husband ever, and if he's not meeting YOUR needs then his efforts go un-registered on your love radar.

Welcome to MB. You better put on some flame proof undies until you come in here and announce that you're no longer in contact with OM and also share how you plan to ensure no contact in the future. We are very hard on unremorseful waywards, but very supportive of remorseful waywards trying to repair the damage they've caused.

MB weekend:
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi011_dates.html

Micheled5,

There are a lot of people here that can offer sage advise to you. But be forewarned....you are having an affair (doesn't matter on line, in person, physical or emotional....an affair is an affair). There are going to be some people that will give you a big what for, and you're gonna need to pull up your big girl panties and take it.

Have you read the Marriage Builders website? How about his books, His Needs Her Needs and Love Busters. Take some time right now to read through these topics:

How Affairs Begin
How Affairs Should End
Restoring the Marital Relationship

Follow the links provided in each section. Read HNHN's and LB's. You can't save a marriage when you are emotionally attached to someone else. You say this OM (other man) is nice and attentive. It's easy to be nice on line. It's easy to tell somebody what they want to hear. You my dear are being played by an internet stranger.

Time to wake up, read up, and own up to what has brought your marriage to this level.

Good Luck!

Beam

Oh - I know I am at fault - I am not blaming him for my actions, but I also know that I need to reconnect with my husband for this not to happen again and I am willing to do whatever it takes to work on that. Thanks for your advice.

micheled5,

I am the BW. For years, I have been disappointed with my H's lack of attention. I also told him repeatedly, with no results. It got to the point, where I just gave up on him.

Well, he ended up having another A. It was an EA, with phone & texting. I found out about it before it became a PA. In my opinion, an EA is equally as bad as a PA.

When I found out about it, I told him that I wanted out of the M. I had enough of the nonsense. For years, I had been bringing up the lack of attention to him, yet he decided to give his attention to some freakin' stranger!

He begged me to R our M. I don't konw why it took an A and me leaving him, to wake up. Makes me pissed and disgusted with what it took for our marriage to end up in R.

I made him call the OW (right in front of me, w/o her knowing that I was on the other phone), and tell her that he wants NC from her whatsoever, and that he loved me, and what he was doing was disrespectful to me, our marriage and our family.

I'm advising you, that if you want to recover your M, then you need to have absolutely NC with this OM. This OM is someone who you don't even know. He is a fantasy, and you have painted him in this wonderful light, where he doesn't deserve. He's a OM, who knows that you are married. He doesn't seem to care or respect your M at all. Think about what you are doing. Is it really worth it?

Hi michele Welcome to MB. The above statement is the kind of thinking that's confusing you. You say you don't blame him, but you're convinced, I think, that if he paid attention to you....that this wouldn't happen again. So isn't that a contradiction? His inattention makes you more vulnerable....that's for sure! However, the real key to making sure this doesn't happen again....is for you to enforce good personal and marital boundaries independently because you are an honorable person...a married woman....and YES, that means even if your H isn't being a good husband. Why? Because the decisions you make define who YOU are. I'd like to see you decide to act honorably and ethically no matter what your husband does or what happens to your marriage because that will make YOU someone you like. When you like yourself....you're better able to do everything else. That is a frame of mind and value that will help you save your marriage and reach your husband. It is your own integrity that is at stake, and that needs to be important all by itself, before you are even in the right mindset to approach your husband about how needy and emotionally neglected you feel.

That "addicted" feeling you have when you interact with this guy works like any addiction. If you think about what defines an addiction....it's something you feel compelled to do...even when you know it's wrong. Your husband can't ensure that you won't give in to an addiction....only you can do that. If you're ready to give up on your marriage....then the ethical thing to do is to divorce him BEFORE you become involved with anyone else. If you want to save your marriage....the ethical thing is to end the affair and put that energy back into your marriage. No matter what your H decides to do...you can act with integrity with or without his help, and I hope you will. Like any addiction, you will feel a "loss" and a compulsion to get your "fix" at first. It takes time, honesty, and willpower to get over the initial withdrawal....but until you do....you will not judge your husband fairly, nor will you be able to impact your marriage and build the kind of relationship you want.

Your husband has a large stake in the poor state of your marriage....buy you, and you alone, are responsible for the decision to respond to his neglect by forsaking your vows. There are so many other choices you can make besides feeding your vulnerabilities....and the folks here will help you....but FIRST....you must realign your ethics and your actions, or nothing will work to revitalize your marriage.

You can do this....start today.

In my heart, I know that I want to keep my marriage - if it is possible and as I stated before - I am willing to do whatever it takes. I know what I have done is wrong and am on the step to doing the right thing. I have already told the other person that I am trying to save my marriage - I am in the process. I feel that I need help not judgement - I have already admitted that I'm wrong and of course I will listen to any advice given to me. I know that ending it is a must - which I have done - but I need now to make my husband realize that I can't be in our marriage the way that it is. I am willing to do whatever it takes but the constant neglect and criticism from him that has been going on for years - I can't continue this way - but it needs to be both of us - or am I wrong? Thank you for all your advice - i am trying to keep an open mind.

Michele, have you ended your affair? In the first post you say that you are still in the affair but in this post you say you have ended it. I am confused.

michele,


Yes, I really think you do...and why you've come here.


That's fantastic....and part of that will mean hearing things that are really uncomfortable but necessary in your fight.


Yes, and I think it's great you're here seeking help.


Have you told the other person that you can never have contact with them ever again? Because that's really what needs to be said for you to be free to work on your marriage. Have you blocked their email? Deleted all contact numbers? Told your H about recontact? If he's married....have you told his wife? Those will be some of your next steps. I realize you're just starting....but when you say you're willing to do whatever it takes....those are the things that will be recommended here.


This scares me a little for you....because if my comparitively gentle style makes you feel defensive....I'm not sure you'll be able to handle the betrayed spouses who may reply....those still really broken and angry about infidelity...or the folks who won't spare the 2x4s.


Good....how did the affair end? Did you do some of the things I mentioned?


But you see....you have stayed in the marriage the way it is. You've stayed so long and been lonely for so long, that you've finally given into an affair rather than negotiating for what you need with your husband. You haven't enforced good boundaries by allowing him to neglect you. Instead, you addressed that wrong....with another wrong. The way to reach him, is not by having an affair....it's with time, honesty, care and protection....Dr. H's four rules. If that doesn't work....then you separate and go to Plan B if necessary.


You aren't "wrong" but you can't change him. Your marriage can't be successful and compatible until you're both on board....but you can't control what he does....only what you do. Right now, despite his neglect, your first business is to recommit to your marriage....openly and honestly. You seem to "fix" him...otherwise you really don't want to recommit. Try this....fix you first....then "lead" him back to compatibility with an open heart and a clear conscience. If that doesn't work....you can end your marriage ethically.

Good Luck and keep posting. This is hard, but it's worth it.

I have ended it- but recently - I came on here looking for advice on what to do next - I am not talking to him anymore - I wouldn't be here to work it out if I was - I really want to work this out and I want to do the right things and approach my husband the right way. Just in case this makes a difference - I was never "caught" I admitted it to my husband. We have been married for 16 years - I am not proud of what I have done and this is not something I have done all along or have ever done before or ever thought I would do. This had been going on for the last 6 months.

Michele, does your H have the full truth? That this is an AFFAIR and that you have been in contact with him up until yesterday when you posted? When you say he doesn't care, it is important that he knows the full facts.

Have you been totally honest with him about your feelings - that you have fallen out of love?

Now, if he truly has the complete facts and still doesn't care, that is another issue altogether and something we can help you with. But it is very important that he be told the complete unvarnished truth. I know some people communicate in a way where they expect others to read between the lines and I want to make sure you are not doing that.

Is the OM married?
Did you ever talk on the phone?
Did you exchange photos?

Yes - he knows the truth - I think he is just so angry that he says he doesn't care. I have told him my feelings over and over for years with no results.

no the OM is not married - Our contact is by phone and yes we have exchanged pictures online when we first met. I have never met him in person.

Michele, it may be that right now he is too hurt to work on your marriage. Could that be that case? Have you given him all the accurate information and answered his questions fully and honestly? Does he know everything you have told us here?

He probably is too hurt to work on our marriage. I have told him everything but sometimes he walks away and won't listen. Thats how our problems all started - not knowing how to effectively communicate with each other. We went to counseling also - but that seemed to hurt things not help - truthfully, the counselor blamed him for not paying me any attention and the counselor never really told me I was in the wrong - which allowed me to justify my actions even more - and make it easier for me to talk to the OM. I now know how wrong I was to believe that.

thank you for all your advice - I take it with an open mind and I will be talking to him tonight to try and start recovering our marriage. This will definitely be of help as I address our issues. I guess it was just a shock to see how wrong I was. I was told in counseling that it was all his fault - so I was a little bit defensive and feeling judged - but I do realize that it is mine - so thank you. Michele

One thing that your H is going to feel for a long time now is doubt. He will doubt that you are being honest with him, and he will wonder if you are still in the A with OM, or if you've gotten into another A with another OM. He will also doubt himself, and his ability to judge others accurately. He sees that he made a huge mis-judgment with you, and he will wonder if he can ever trust his own judgment again.

This doubt will probably lead to him asking you tons of questions. He'll ask you the same questions over and over, and he'll ask about the same topics in different ways. Answer him completely and honestly, every time he asks. In doing so, you allow him to construct a reality that is consistent. This helps him to regain trust in himself, and trust in you. Answer him for as long as it takes. Don't tell him "We've been over this before, I've answered these questions a hundred times, nothing has changed, can't we move on now?" Because the truth is no, you cannot move on until he feels he has solid footing beneath him again. Just answer his questions, be honest, and answer them again.

Whatever you do, don't omit anything or tell any "white lies". When these omissions and untruths come to light (and they will), then the setback will be huge - possibly insurmountable. You absolutely MUST be completely honest with him now. This is a huge thing that cannot be stressed enough.

How are you ensuring NC with OM?

Michele, this is the right approach. He will respond to EMPATHY, but will be repelled by any blameshifting. Your affair is 100X worse than anything he has done and he did not CAUSE it. That is like blaming a rape victim for her rape by blaming her clothing. The affair was your choice entirely. He needs to hear you take full responsibility for it.

That will help him feel less defensive and more able to take responsibility for his part in the bad state of your marriage.

If you will take that approach, I think he will relax and be more willing to make changes. We can also help bring him around.

Do you have the book Surviving an Affair? That book would be very helpful to him in understanding the dynamics of an affair.

No I don't have the book - but I will see what I can do about finding it for him. Thanks.

How are you ensuring NC with OM? [/quote]


Well - I guess I will offer my phone info and passwords to my husband. The OM I have talked to - I have never met and lives out of state - other than that - I don't know how to ensure it. I have told the OM that I can no longer talk to him in any way.

I talked to my H last night and fortunately he is still willing to work on our marriage. We just don't know where to go next because the 8 weeks of counseling we did over the summer - did nothing but cost us a bunch of money and drive us even further apart. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

michelle -

That's good that you gave your passwords to your H. Are you able to change your phone #'s and e-mail addy's too?

The problem seems to be - what do we do now? How do we go about fixing this without a counselor? Should we look for a new one? We are both leery of going to one after what we went through this summer. Changing my number isn't a solution - I still know OM's number - but I am giving him access to my cell phone and phone statement access for accountability. We just need to know how to begin moving forward.

Part of the problem is that you do not realize that you must do every thing you put your BH's fears to rest.

"I still know OM's number"

So do you want a medal?

With time you will forget his number.

"but I am giving him access to my cell phone and phone statement access for accountability"

Good start. Your BH can see that you are NC with the OM. That there will come a day you will forget his number.

"Changing my number isn't a solution"

This is where you dropped the ball. You need to show your BH that you are doing everything that you can to make it hard for the OM to contact you.

Change that number. Did you email, change that too.

How did you meet OM online?

You will have to remove that account/membership.

"We just need to know how to begin moving forward."

You were able to afford counseling this summer, so you should be able to afford a few good sessions with the Harley's of this site. Never heard of anyone complaining about them. Most other councilors are not effective because they only worry about not making their clients upset. They don't want to scare off there paying customers by making them face reality.

Michele, why not try phone counseling with the Harleys and go to a MB seminar in January? Your H will immediately like Steve Harley because he is fair and will not blame your H for the affair. [he won't beat you up either] He can show assess your marriage and give you a plan of recovery. And he really does know how to help you make a GREAT MARRIAGE. He is worth every penny and won't waste your time with a lot of nonsense.

You don't counsel together, but separately. For example, the first session would consist of you telling him everything about your marriage. The second might be 30 min for you and 30 min for him and then 5 min together to review.

He can do in a few sessions what other counselors can never do.

Just so you know, your exp is the RULE, rather than the exception. Marriage counselors have an 84% FAILURE rate because they don't have the slightest idea how to save marriages. The Harleys really do. They are a little more expensive, [$195] but they are worth every penny, IMO. They can do in a few sessions what others can never do.

Their goal is for you to FALL IN LOVE, not just tolerate each other, and if you follow their instructions, you can be in LOVE. I just can't say enough about them. They really do deliver.

Thanks for the information. I will suggest it to him. Do you have an idea of how many sessions it might be?

To - The Road ---ok - thats just rude - of course I don't want a medal - it is just the plain truth and I stated that I'm giving him my information in every way that I know how. I know I am in the wrong - I admit that - but being rude isn't the way to help somebody. MelodyLane thank you for all your helpful information - I really do appreciate it.

Michele, I have no idea. My sister went for 3-4 and felt like that was enough. Others have gone for more depending on their situtions. This plan is more contingent on your LESSONS than on having to have endless counseling.

Thanks Melody