My story has been posted in other threads. Here is the basics
M-34, WW-31, D day 10/31/08. No exposure, failing at plan A all around.

Yeah yeah yea, i need to expose.

Here's the deal though, i had my first checkin with the key logger today. OM is not on a computer at all, except for the occasional myspace. There was 0 contact with OM, which makes sense.

OM is not the answer. They quarrel (i have text messages). He gets jealous when other guys give her attention (and she thought it was just me HELLO, your hot, you get attention - regardless if you care or not it is not easy to deal with - at this point i am sure she wants the attention).

The only interesting thing on the key logger is that I get to she what she says to her "best friend". its more like her ok friend who is also a slut and cheats AKA the one who will side with her (I contacted her, no support).

Aynways, here is what I read. Not babble to me, not babble to OM. Seems like her true feelings, regardless of what she says

Late Nov - WW: my dad was still there, that's when i talked to him about me and BS

12/1 - discussion about how WW kissed OM at a bar in front of F and how it was awkward for F. Also WW mentions that she does not remember even doing that (drunk i assume)

F: (OM bday was 11.29) How was OM's bday?
WW: he says it was great...i had planned to take him to the beach, just the two of us. so we went to X beach. he put up a tent. we drank beers, got stoned, watched an amazing sunset. drive back, met up with all his friends at bowling. then went to X regular bar. where he got lit. knew he was gunna was just hoping he didnt get too bad. he got pretty bad but it was ok.
bblah blah
WW: i dunno...i was stoked to give him a good bday...he had talked for awhile about having lame bdays


12/3
Friend: Hows it going
WW: i dunno, BS just sent me an email, it was too much for him to stayed quiet last night, so he resorted to an email. I am really just sick of it all, i really wish i had a full time job. i would be gone.
Friend: Thats not good, this is where i wish i could give BS advice, not that he would listen
WW: there is no advice you could give him, even when he is being "good" it wont change the bottom of it
Friend: something about that she would advise giving space

Last week - just on YM but hidden, hiding from BS

Re: Sunday 12/14 - pretty much stayed in bed all day with OM



So 2 questions
1) do i go straight to plan D (no kids)?
2) if yes, any advice on how to man up and just kick her to the curb? I know all the bad words that can be said, and good words to say about me but really, she has not cut it off so i have some hope. i dont think i should have any. move on right? but how.

In regards to the money situation.
she works part time, school full time.
Our joint checking is drained.

Her car payment is rolled into our home loan. I pay both the 1st and 2nd loan. She pays for my car payment (she could not afford the 2nd loan with school so we swapped, car was less).

We have no joint credit cards.

I pay all other bills already with the exception of car insurance which she pays.

If i cut her off/toss her essentially my cost will go up (all i can cut her off from is cell phone); hers goes down.

The comment is that she probably cant afford to rent any place, but with that cut of car payment and insurance she could probably afford to rent a room.

Her school is paid for next semester through selling her motorcycle last month.

I could take away/steal back the computer i bought her for Christmas 1 year ago I guess.

There was also comments that I read that she told her F that the night we went out (night before that email i sent WW)....WW said that we slept in bed together that night, which was the first time for awhile and that i spooned her and rubbed her back. She said that she felt nothing, and that i scratched her back all wrong - how could i not know how to do it right after all these years.

I am not sure we are right together - i dont know her. I dont think she really knows me either. but there were so many distractions - i recognized problems and have been willing to work on them, but her thoughts all along are that i dont know her, and i will never know her.

88life,

My recommendation speak to a lawyer and perhaps a financial guy. It seems from what you have found that there is no love so perhaps it is time for plan D, but it is YOUR call. You are the one that has to live with it.

See if there are financial arrangements that would be easier on you if you decide to D.

JL

so much data to sift through lol.

right around thanksgiving they almost broke up. he wanted to end it with WW. they certainly are not meant to be together. "thanks for taking off Ahole". "i knew you wanted to end it before your birthday"

clearly they made up, but there is no way this thing is going to last.

even around that time though she was not coming back home really much more. we mostly just faught then cause i was out of my mind crazy in the head which just caused friction and issues more and more.

she tells me it is not about the OM and it is about us. there is an OM, and she is sleeping with him. She is using him for several reasons i figure. But i now believe her that it is not him. To me it was go NC and then we can try to work on things. but it seems like even if she went NC she really has no interest in me, and little interest in trying. what little interest there is i jsut ruin it by committing LBs when she shows up because i am so hurt and i cant hold my feelings in more then a couple days at a time (which usually coensides with the time she comes home)

Thanks JustLearing. I can afford to handle things on my own. It is not a problem - for me.

I guess about the $ i was just thinking how people say to go to plan B or in plan A to cut off funds that make it easy to have the A; just saying that may or may not matter since she would have more money if we Separated or plan B'd or whatever.

I actually dont think she would try to take much if anything from me if we D. From day 1 she always wanted to be on her own financially. some of her mental issues actually arose because she could not handle that i was helping her through school? i really did not know how to react to that.

oh for heavens sake...

you do realize that all those sentiments...

he doesn't do this right
he deosn't do that right

he doesn't know what i like,
he doesn't know what I want
he doesn't know jack about me...

is all blah blah blah...as long as there is an OM in the picture

she needs to say and tell herself and anyone else who will listen all that crap all the time to rationalize and justify the affair...

it is crap...

it is exactly what a human brain does to deny that THEIR actions and choices are of the most painful ones....

as long as you remain the 'bad' guy for everything on the planet from global warming to not touching her correctly...

she can justify drunken insane pathetic interactions with OM ...and use friend as the cheerleading squad....

and you are falling for it...

maybe we don't really know eachother sayeth you...
maybe she's right...
well if she is untruthful in all her actions and words...why in heavens name would you pick those pieces to be truth.....

are you in plan A??

and if not
WHY not....

ARK

Do you want to divorce, or try to save the marriage?
You have to be able to answer that question before you do anything else. IMO you should give it a try, because D-day was only 6 weeks ago and it's wise to wait 6-12 months before making any big decisions (divorce, separation). Plus, the A is clearly on wobbly legs.


You have to learn to squelch the LBs and meet ENs if you're ever going to be decent spousal material for anyone, your WW or anyone else. IMO: you may as well practice your MB skills on WW. If you tell yourself it will be easier w/o the stress of an A, you're fooling yourself. There will always be stressors: financial, health, aging parents, etc. You need to master the MB skills and be able to implement them even under stress.

The LBs *have* to go. One LB undoes tons of deposits. If you can't avoid AOs or DJs or whatever, just meet an EN and leave the room.

You need to start meeting those ENs, too, so that you are a more attractive option than OM. Shouldn't be too hard, the way they're fighting.

1. Expose
2. Eliminate LBs
3. What are her top three ENs?

excellent advice. You need to decide this FIRST. And then start with Plan A, be ready for Plan B.

a) Start communicating with your WW on daily basis. Tell her you want to save your marriage. Start talking/doing things with her.
b) Tell her that there will be NC with OM ever again. This will one of your boundaries
c) change your behavior. Stop LBs and Meet her ENs. She wont register for a while but try anyway. (like in my case)
d) Read up like crazy, books, what not to educate yourself
e) Take up new hobbies and work on improving yourself.

It is a marathon to get there. Be strong, do your part, and hope for the best.

88

I believe I read somewhere in one of your posts that there are no children. If that is the case, WALK AWAY AND NEVER LOOK BACK! My wife had a LTA with FOM and we are now in recovery. But there is a day that goes by that the affair doesn't cross my mind. There are some days I can't stand the site of her. There are days I regret her not leaving for the OM.

The thing is I fought so hard for recovery because I didn't want my child to go through the pain of divorce and having his family torn apaart. I didn't want to put the wieght of his parents problems on his shoulders at such a young age. And that was my main motivation for fighting for my marriage.

If I did not have a child, I would have walked away from the drama long ago. There are SO many people out there who you could have a great life with, so why limit yourself to this one person who has shown herself to not be of good moral character. And the fact that her father seems to almost approve of this relationship with OM really shows what type of morals she was brought up with.

Good luck with everything.

Arc, is it all blah blah if she is telling it to a 3rd party and has no idea I have access to know that is what she said? I guess it is possible, but seems alot less likely then just feeding the BS a line.

That's right, there are no kids.

I am at 6-7 weeks yes, and i basically am just going crazy. I have read quite a bit and am educated fairly well on this stuff but i cant bring myself to stop LBing when she is around. I try, but my emotions get the best of me. When i know that she has just spent the evening with the OM, she lies to me in the face, makes stuff up, etc. I can't bring myself to not LB about things specifically around the A. I have stopped other LBs but that always comes first. That's why i am thinking plan B of D now.

8 weeks ago when i joined this forum i wanted to save the marriage, 1 week ago i wanted to save it. Now I think maybe i should just cut my losses.

I can relate, and its truly pointless to expect rational clear thinking. As sad as it sounds it actually makes you the crazy one to expect sanity from a crazy person.

What helped me was one time a friend said to me, "If you argue with a crazy person, what does that make you?" It was a slap to me but she was right.

You are sane and you know it, she is in denial. Don't waste your energies or time in trying to bring reasoning or expect rational thinking, you are NOT going to get it and only drive yourself crazy.

Take some time and decide what you want. Do you want the marriage? If there is even the tiniest yes stop the LB'ing and NO begging, pleading, reasoning, crying etc etc. But first you have to decide and only you can know that. But both paths, divorce or try to reconcile, will be difficult and require patience, self control, and perseverance. One path is not shorter that the other either. Divorce is sometimes longer and harder, but we think it can be easy. Trying to reconcile is no easy task either. Find out what you want.

It is, 88. You didn't ask me, but I want to answer this. While what I told my friends and family about my M was true, the problems took on much more urgency after I started my A. Hearing my problems aloud made them seem even more severe. It helped me justify to myself my betrayal. No one knew that I was a cheater and that I was doing the unthinkable to my H. But for me, hearing my loved ones empathize with my poor marriage emboldened me to think I was right in considering leaving my H, thus making my A not seem as horrible as I knew, deep down, that it really was.

This has to be really tough when she's not committed at all to the M as you are. I'm sorry this is happening to you.

Good luck, 88.

Look I'm not saying that your M can be saved. No-one can. There is somethings that need be done for the sake of personal growth.

There is a golf expression that says: 100% of the short putts fail.

So if you are still in this marriage, make sure that you have put sufficient effort to enable change. Clear obstructions to the goal. This means get rid of OM. You know what you got to do. Listen to the posters, they've played this game before.

But even if you don't sink this ball, you've played and learned. You will have faced fears and overcome. This is about you fighting the good fight. About looking your family in the eye. About becoming the husband that you should be.

Scripture tells me that all hard work reaps profit. I believe it because I have tested this promise.

Get in there and do this right, if not for her, then for you.

Arc, is it all blah blah if she is telling it to a 3rd party and has no idea I have access to know that is what she said? I guess it is possible, but seems alot less likely then just feeding the BS a line.

Villifying the BS is as old dirt...
doesn't have to be TO the BS...it will be to anyone and all that the junkie minds needs to convince and justify the ACTIONS of an affair...

the rewriting of marital history
the
there never was any love
it never was good
they never felt any thing they just went along with marriage
it was what was expected...

all victim to their own choices....

very few people go to others that know of their affair
OR
that they want to convince that the marriage is flawed drop pearls from their lips when discussing their spouse...
it's usually fault after fault after fault....

oh yeah WS lie....
in case you didn't notice....

88 decide what you want to do...
work on the marriage on your end which is done inspite of anything the WS does...(not anything tbere are lots of deal breakers)
but certainly plan A is done with contact with the OP going on...

that's a huge huge factor in plan A....

no one in plan A should ever go to a WS and expect them to commit to or work on the marriage...

and you can't do plan B without doing plan A first..
hence the name...

ARK^^

If you find you want to save the marriage, expose and start the Plan A stuff.
But, most marriages do not survive infidelity. Most of the time, the plans do not work. All you can do is follow the plans to the best of your ability. The rest is up to her. Give yourself a deadline and don't do this indefinitely.

Mentally prepare yourself for divorce, and give her an ultimatum:

Stop all contact with OM RIGHT NOW or it's time for a divorce.

You might even want to have the papers drawn up first, so you can hand them to her if she balks at the ultimatum.

If you don't have kids, you should get rid of her.

Contrary to what many on this site believe, I don't think there should be any such thing as Plan A for a WW.

They should all be told to stop it now or get the F out. If they choose OM, so be it. They deserve each other.

Thanks all.

Part of me wants to save the M still, but that glass is getting less and less full by the day.

Hi 88, how are you doing?

I hope that you are fine and wish you a pleasant weekend.

How are the gym hours going? Will you be the Beach Hunk 2009?

Earlier this week i did some exposing. She was mad (obviously we know that happens).

Around that same time i told her that i could not deal with her indecision and i agree that we should spend more time apart (she kept saying that for awhile). She waited until yesterday (a few days) and then agreed that we need to be apart. so now she is gone. i let her know that although time apart might let her clear her mind (that what she says, i know she is 95% just going to be with OM). But to me it will do nothing to change the fact that she is in an A. I let her know there is no way it will work with OM around. iguess it is a quasi plan b but not a real one.

we will be spending the next 2 weeks apart with NC unless she changes her mind and wants to go NC with om.

For me things are going pretty bad. I just had to lay off over half my team at work this week and now am embarking on forced 2 week vacation by my company.

I am really struggling. I have all these positive ideas about going to the gym, getting out with what few friends i have. even trying to turn some acquaintances into friends. but i am just not doing so well at it.

i need to get out of here/out of town. but i am not sure where i can go by myself that will have some positives/have some fun. i cant figure anything out and now i am headed straight into xmas an ny essentially alone.

i am back to drinking again. See other post

88, sorry you're going through this. I know how you feel because I am facing the same thing. My WW got herself an apartment and is busy moving all her stuff out and will take our three kids with her as soon as she's done moving her stuff out. She moved out because I refused to allow her to carry on her affair from the comfort of our home via internet chat and phone conversations.

Now she'll be able to carry on her A without my interference. I know her A will die just as nearly all A's die a natural death. Your WW's A will end too.

But you DO have to decide whether you want to try to save your marriage or not.

I personally recommend trying to save your marriage at all costs. If you spend 6 months trying to save your marriage, you'll come out a winner whether your WW comes back or not. Dr Harley says there may be four good reasons to fight for your marriage:

1) You are partly responsible for the affair
2) Your wife has not yet decided to end the marriage
3) You need to know that you have done your best to save your marriage
4) If you follow the MB plan and it fails, you will no longer have any feelings of love for your wife.

Maybe your marriage can be saved! If you quit now, maybe you'll always wonder if there was something more you could have done that would have made the difference. Don't have any regrets.

It won't be easy to follow a plan to try to save your marriage, but I feel that there is no easy way out of this whatever direction you take.

Whatever you decide, no one here will criticize you. I wish you the best!!

Also, IMO, it takes possibly even more courage to try to save your marriage than it does to walk away from it. I think it would be a lot easier for me to walk away from my marriage than to try to fight for it while my WW is in an A.

i can't say i disagree erichh. It is a trying process to try to save it.

i think right now i am trying to trick my mind into thinking i am giving up and that i just dont care what she does. when i try to save it i really do just make things worse because i can't mentally handle it which causes LBs and hurts not helps.

in terms of your post before that one i basically agree 100% with everything you said. those are the same words i tell her. even if she thinks that we are too different and she thinks i will never "get" her - we should fight for the M so even if it fails she/we know we did all we could. both WW and me know the OM deal wont last (not with this one).

While WW is having an A, it is nearly impossible to reason with her. She is not thinking straight. The part about you not ever going to "get" her is fog-babble. Just stick with what we know about waywards and let her words roll off your back.

Avoiding LBs is very hard when this is going on. I've messed up too. Don't be too hard on yourself, she prob deserves what you said to her, but if you want to save your marriage, you have to be disciplined in this area.

One thing that has helped me to avoid LBs is meeting with a marriage counselor. One of the best things that he has taught me is how to react to things she says in a respectful manner. It works like magic and avoids arguments but it has taken me practice and I still goof up now and again. Let me know if you want me to go into more detail about this, and I'll give you a couple of examples.

Just remember that this is a marathon, not a sprint, so take it slow and realize that it ain't over till it's over.

I've been in Plan A for about two months now and I'm close to having to go to Plan B. I've also wanted to change my mind and just divorce and get it over with at times. It's an emotional roller-coaster. Dr. Harley says it's perfectly normal to feel these feelings as a BS.

A few days ago when I wanted to throw in the towel, I read Mortarman's thread and it got me re-motivated again:

Mortarman's husband/wives roles

This guy has some serious patience. His recovery took a couple of years I believe, and his WW left him several times before she came back for good and he says their marriage is better than ever now.

It's success stories like that that give me hope to try to carry on.

t/j to Erich

Erich, I am amazed at how quickly you CAUGHT ON. I can't tell you what a pleasure it is to post to someone who read the book and GETS the big picture. Thanks so much for taking the time to help other posters.

88, do you have any family to spend Christmas with? Parents, sisters or brothers?

I don't think that you will become an alcoholic from a little more than usual drinking but I don't like the thought of you alone at home with beer as only company at Christmas.

If you don't have any relatives that you want to spend Christmas with I suggest that you book a holiday in a warm and nice place or, if you prefer that, in a ski resort. Check out what the travel agencies have to offer, sometimes you can get really good deals when you book the last minute.

I am sorry that you have a lot of stress at work too, that doesen't make you happier. I think that you are still in the initial chaos after D-day so it's hard to give any advice how to feel better. For me it helped to change environment, I took two weeks vacation and went to stay with an old friend.

Actually, I think that you have to recover from the blow of the affair before you make any decisions about anything. I didn't understand plan A when I was in it but I think I do now. It is about working on yourself and that includes taking care of yourself so you can be happy and strong again.

erichh, i gotta admit i tried to read that thread, but I was not inspired. see, religion is not a part of my life (yes, my family celebrated xmas but in a very much American sort of way). i could only make it about half way down the first page. I will have to give it another try later to see what I did not get to too see if there is some relevant inspiration for me.

why_us, for the first year ever the most of my family will not be here. they decided to go to maui this xmas (one of your suggestions). i dropped them at the airport this AM. it's funny, for the last 7 years i have had 4 family xmas's to go to and now I have 0. i am considering going over there (maui) to meet them in a few days, but I am not sure if i want to do that. see below note

Ski area is another option too. I am not too far from Tahoe. But i am not a winter sports kind of guy and my emotional state makes me think i will be in the same frame of mind up there then i am here except i am bleeding off cash to do it.

not trying to sound too depressing or woah is me, but thats sorta my feelings right now.

i have told a decent number of people that we are having problems. Some telling about the A, some just that we are apart now, some just that we are having problems and some i have not told.

I find that for me the closer i am to someone the less i open up. so i find myself wanting to surround myself (granted a big portion of that is email/chat) more with those that i am less close with - not sure if that make sense.

I am not sure if it stems from the fact that one of my good friends that i told responded in not a good way. it was a basically "are you getting ready to move on", expressing anger, not supporting saving the marriage (basically just thinking i should bolt).

With family i am just not ready to 100% open up, and being stuck under the same roof scares me

Thanks, Mel. I owe a lot of what I learned to you!

Yeah, I hadn't considered that. Mortarman uses some hard core scripture and doctrine in his posts about man and woman roles. You may still get something out of it though. There are other inspiring stories by others too. Just keep reading the threads. It has helped me a lot.

I know what you mean! 75% of the people that I have shared my experience with say to kick my wife to the curb and some are very forceful about their opinions. It definitely can muddy the water when you get a lot of feedback like that. You've got to do what YOU think is best in the end.

What does "t/j" stand for?

I am not sure what is best, but I know that I am not ready to move on yet so that means fight. I think when people support curb kicking --- it makes it hard to really get the type of support I need. The last thing I want is to be dragged out on some sort of "guys" night where people can tell me cliche things like "women, can't live with them - pass the beer nuts".

But the bad news is i have little choice between that and being alone all the time. limited set of friends, and basically nobody that is not super busy this time of year...

Look, I can't tell you what to do and I am no expert at this. But as I see it, you can use the vacation that you have ahead of you to do something good for yourself. Turn it into something positive! I know that it is not that easy to just change your mind and be happy instead of down but I really think that you should try to make something out of it.

From my not-at-all-an-expert point of view I would suggest for your vacation:
-Change of location. Go somewhere, it is not really important where. If you don't want to stay close to relatives, you don't have to.
-Physical challenges. That was the reason I suggested skiing. Get out and get tired, have a good dinner and go to sleep. Repeat that for 1-2 weeks and see what it does for you.

After my D-day I didn't go to see my family for almost three months and I hardly talked to them. I put off talking to them because I hoped that STBX would turn around and everything would be ok. I wanted so badly to be able to tell them that I and STBX had been having a rough time but now, now everything was fine again. When I finally went to see them and told the whole story to my dad, I was so afraid of what he would say. He was always fond of STBX and I think he really saw STBX as family. But he just said: "If he has done that, you don't have any reason to be sorry that he has left. I'm dissapointed with him but it would have been much worse if you would have done something like that." I think I was afraid to tell him because I felt like I had failed but he was 110% on my side and he never told me what to do. I hope that your family will support you too. Family is always family.

thanks for the encouragement.

One thing that has helped me a lot has been to work out at the gym. I have a very inexpensive community center membership for about $20/month. It just feels really good to go pump some iron and run on the treadmill. It helps me convert my negative emotions into a healthy habit. Endorphins are a natural drug and you can't help but feel a little better during your workout... Plus you'll look better after a while and this will help your self esteem.

It probably hasn't hit me full force like it's hit you though because my WW and kids are still living with me in my house. After next weekend, they should be completely moved out and then I'll finally feel the full force of that. I'm not looking forward to it.

Right now I'm planning to keep busy around the house by cleaning and fixing things until the house is immaculate. I always feel better when I'm in a clean house--WW has let the house fall behind on the cleaning and she doesn't "let me" clean because she feels like it's too much hassle for her to work around me with the kids and everything else. She's very controlling about the house which has always been an issue.

But anyway, you will make it through this just like everyone else will or already has. Just hang in there and believe that it must get better eventually.

What would you do in this situation. You have not seen WW in a week. You are taking a "break" and have not spoken. WW wishes that you would spend your time doing something fun and not mope around. She wants me to be doing all the same stuff you all are saying. That is going to for sure be more attractive. In her foggy mind she thinks that when we do talk it will be good because we have not seen each other and we will have stuff to talk about like what we have been up to. I on the only hand just care about our time apart being that she decided if she is going to end the A or not. It is a weak plan B, but I did say that i dont want her back if he is in the picture at all.

Anyways, say she is going to call in 15 minutes and you basically done nothing noteworthy and mostly did mope around. She calls with the hopes of a positive conversation, and will ask how you have been and what you have been up to.

Would you
1) Tell the truth that you have been miserable and sat around the house the whole time, etc
2) Change the subject and dont talk about it (or minimize that part of the conversation
3) Lie and make something up to sound less pathetic knowing that #3 is the optimal route

I have typically done #2 in the past and when pushed i do #1.
I should have been doing #3 for the last week anyways, but i have not been.

So the phone is ringing or the door opens. What is your response?

First of all, if you are going to apply the MB principles, you need to decide if you are in Plan A or Plan B... If you are going to do a plan B, you need to write your letter stating what you are doing and then go dark. I haven't started plan B yet, but when I do, I plan to follow it to the best of my ability.

I don't trust my own mind right now because I am too close to the situation. I'm trying to follow the advise of these gurus here who are thinking clearly. Dr. Harley says it's a strait and narrow path that leads to recovery. If you stray from the formula, you're on your own...

If you are in Plan B, you don't talk to WW until she says she has ended the A and wants to work on M.

If you're in Plan A, DO NOT TELL YOUR WIFE THAT YOU'VE BEEN MOPING unless you are trying to get rid of her for good. I don't recommend lying but you can certainly not tell her you've been moping. It's just repulsive and unattractive. Nobody likes to be around someone who is moping. Just saying it like it is...

I guess out of the three choices, I would have to say "trick question" and go with option 4 which is: YOU DON'T ANSWER THE PHONE BECAUSE YOU ARE OUT AT THE GYM GETTING RIPPED AND HAVING A LIFE. If you have time after you're done working out and done hanging out with your new friends (or whatever), then call her back if you want and tell her you weren't home to take her call because you were too busy having a life.. (all in a kind way of course)

I think anybody wants to be with a person who is OPTIMISTIC and confident. You HAVE TO stop the moping!! Seriously. I went to see my MC and I was feeling like a victim and sorry for myself. He didn't cater to it at all. He said I have to stop that crap immediately. It doesn't do ANY good. Heck, have you met with a marriage counselor yet? This has helped me a ton too. He's like my own personal coach.

Anyway, I hope I wasn't too harsh but I'd want someone to be frank with me in a situation like this.

not harsh at all. i agree.

it just takes me a bit longer then some people. i have been working on getting some sticks in the fire for things to do and people to hang out with, just timing with the holidays makes it tough for people.

i just have needed some time to sort through my thoughts. just heading out on errands today was really tough on me to keep my composure up.

i am not officially in plan B, because i did not write the letter and i am not 100% committed. But it seems like i should just write the letter because we are in a 1-2week dark period which is going to pass xmas and probably NY. i already told her that i dont want her back/work on things until he is audi. i just did not make it official, but why not? seems like there is no reason not to at this point.

I am not sure what MB suggests that you should do. I know that you should be in plan A for a few months and than go to plan B for your own sanity. It is very stressful to plan A an active WS. Please create a "bump" thread and ask for help if you want some vets' opinions.

I hope that you will find a way to feel better. I strongly encourage you to do something, make a plan and follow it. Feelings can follow actions and if you do things you will feel better. Make yourself do it. You are a strong young man and you can do it! Re-organize the house or learn to play the trumpet. Bake bread, that's what my councellor told me to do when I was at my lowest.

I will not be here for a few days but I wish you a good christmas. Take care of yourself.

I knew she knew about this site; I guess she finally poked around the forums and found my posts/username. She now knows all that I have posted here including the tactics i was forced to take to find out the truth. I think it is ok that she knows all of this, in fact probably a good thing. To me truth and honest is my #1 EN and i think this is part of that openness.

With that said, i have used this forum as a place to give my thoughts and feelings and ask for advice - almost my journal of sorts. I am not sure if it is a good idea or not for me to continue to post her for her to read. She knows how i feel about her and she knows i want to save the marriage. I will gladly open my journal to her when she is ready to do the same.

I am not sure if i will post moving forward or not, but if not I just wanted to say thank you to all that have supported me through all of this. Feel free to PM me. I am sure i will get through this.

Wonder why she would want to see what you're typing on these forums? It doesn't make sense to me. Why do you think she would care what you're writing here?

How do you know that she's been poking around here?

I know because she told me in an email today (first contact in maybe 5 days). In the email she told me because she figured i was tracking all she was doing so i would find out anyways.

I think she cares about me. I think she worries about me. I do not know if she wants to fight for our M or not. But i know that if she decided to leave for good - she wants me to be happy and to be ok without her. I think she has a lot of guilt on her mind.

I'm not an expert but it sounds like maybe she's checking to see if you are still interested in her by checking out your posts.

Maybe it gives her some comfort to know that you are still waiting in the wings while she has her A. Kind of like a safety net for her. This is purely speculation but maybe if she was truly in the dark for a while, not knowing whether you still have feelings for her or not, maybe she would truly start to miss you and increase your odds. Not sure though.

I think that going dark would have to include not posting here so that she couldn't check up on you.

Does anyone with more experience know what 88 should do? Is he allowed to start another username so that he can still post without his WW finding out?