Hi, I am new here and really need your advice. I have been reading for months but never posted. Here goes...

We have been living together for years and both of us have been married before. Our kids are grown and not living here so it’s us. We were so much in love for many years and love doing just about everything together, biking, hiking, laying in bed to just drink coffee in the morning on the weekends. We used to be able to talk about everything and anything. The problems now are always the same and I am not sure what to do. I am asking for advice as I am afraid he will leave and we will be finished.
He has become so withdrawn the past few months and seems very bored with our relationship as he keeps telling me that he wants excitement and to experience sexual adventures as a couple with other couples. We would not have intercourse with others but wants the excitement of watching or something along that order. I am not as comfortable with this as he is.
What really bothers me is that he is in love with me as I am with him and I thought we would grow old together. We both do not want to end this but he is now saying that he is trying to decide if he can let this part of his life go as he has always wanted to experience this sort of stuff. I am angry because to me if you had to choose sexual adventures or a live with somebody who you love and are in love with, how can that be so hard to decide? Plus we have not had any relationship in bed for over two months as he said that he is bored and tired of the same ole thing.
Has anyone been through anything like this before? I don't know what to think anymore...should I just say goodbye???

mbaby

Be careful going down this road - it is a slippery slope to the next 'adventure' so you don't get bored. Until eventually you are removed from the 'adventure' altogether.

The fact that he doesn't want SF from you now should be a huge red flag. Its not healthy for your long term relationship to substitute other people to have your H's SF need met. There is probably something else bothering your H and that's the reason why he doesn't want to engage in SF with you.

Why didnt you ever get married?

Thank you both for your replies,

I never want to get married again as it was bad enough before and there is no need for it as my children are grown and we are both making a good living, I am his life partner.

I am worried that we used to have a lot of fun and he is now telling me that he is bored. I agree about the red flag I see too, I also sense that maybe he is depressed a bit since he just turned 50 and feels that time is now running out.
I did schedule an appointment with a councelor to talk and he said that he doesn't really believe in them but will go if I want.

Why I am so very upset is that I cannot understand why this is such a hard decision on his part. If you really are in love with somebody, wouldn't you give up something simple like these adventures? It makes no sense to me at all and I cannot understand.

If he can not separate sexual fantasy from reality then it may be time to say goodbye because you will likely be a victim of a cheating partner very soon if not already. Involving other people in your relationship is not adventerous it's destructive. If he wants to be sexually adventerous the two of you can do that without involving other people. Your partner is very immature. Don't sell yourself out to try and hold onto him.

It's not uncommon for someone who is already cheating to try and push swinging or 3 ways (watching, whatever) onto the unsuspecting partner to try and alleviate their own guilt.

This looks like a classic case of it. I hope I am wrong.

Start snooping immediately.

mbaby, he doesn't sound very committed, which is the attitude of those who live together. Generally, living together versus getting married is the difference between a renter and a buyer. A renter is just there until something better comes along. A buyer will do what it takes to make the necessary repairs.

Have you read Dr Harley's articles about living together? He explains here why living together is usually a disaster: here You might find them interesting, along with the 3 states of mind in a relationship:

Freeloader is unwilling to put much effort into the care of his or her partner in a romantic relationship. He or she does only what comes naturally and expects only what comes naturally. It's like a person who tries to live in a house without paying rent or doing anything to improve it unless the person is in the mood to do so.

Renter is willing to provide limited care as long as it's in his or her best interest. The romantic relationship is considered tentative, so the care is viewed as short-term. It's like a person who rents a house and is willing to stay as long as the conditions seem fair, or until he or she finds something better. The person is willing to pay reasonable rent and keep the house clean but is not willing to make repairs or improvements. It's the landlord's job to keep the place attractive enough for the renter to stay and continue paying rent.

Buyer is willing to demonstrate an extraordinary sense of care by making permanent changes in his or her own behavior and lifestyle to make the romantic relationship mutually fulfilling. Solutions to problems are long-term solutions and must work well for both partners because the romantic relationship is viewed as exclusive and permanent. It's like a person who buys a house for life with a willingness to make repairs that accomodate changing needs, painting the walls, installing new carper, replacing the roof, and even doinf some remodeling so that it can be comfortable and useful.

I do trust him so I don't think he is cheating or is having an affair. I really don't know how to check on him anyway and quite honestly, if I knew that he was snooping on me I would be very upset.

I am wondering if he is having a mid life crisis? I really would like to know if anyone here has had any experience in this swinging stuff that their spouse wants to do and how they handled it.

Everything else is perfect it seems and last few years we always talked about how perfect and happy our lifes seemed to be. How sad is this. If this is the breaker of us then I can't even imagine another fit for me or somebody that makes me laugh and makes me feel so happy.

Half of me is so mad that I am insulted that there is even a question of what to choose and to tell him to take a hike. But then I know that any relationship has to have some work and effort to make things work out.
I am so confused. Our lease is up in two months too here in NY so I am now very concerened on what to do as we have to decide to keep this apt or not and neither one of us can afford it alone.

link to post about "open marriage"

You are not married.
This post was written for married couples.
perhaps it will help you formulate a response to your "life partner".

Good luck

Thank you Peperband but not being married shouldn't really make any difference as the relationship is just as important. It is committed. I would love to read that post but the link won't work. Can you resend it?
~ mbaby

mbaby,

You've lived together for a long time, but neither of you has wanted to get married. Now, for one of you at least, that's gotten stale, and there's nothing to keep the bored partner from "branching out." No commitment, no legality, no moral imperative.

I think this man is he77 bent on "broadening" his experience. Might have already been doing so. Why don't you do some checking and find out what he's actually been up to? Then you'll know the full scope of what you're dealing with. If you discover an affair (and it wouldn't surprise me if you do, and he will likely deny it), decide whether you can handle the emotional meat grinder you'll be in. Without legal or social benefits, you'll be hard pressed to salvage the relationship, especially if he's not being honest with you.

It's what you can expect with a "renter" relationship. If you love him, fight for the relationship, but it's likely you're in for a very bumpy ride.

JMHO

I fixed the link.

The relationship is not a married relationship.
I stated a fact.

mbaby, there is a huge difference between being married and living together. One is committed and the other is not. This relationship was not even important enough to you to make it legal. I dont see how you can expect others to place more importance on it than you do.

This man is not married and is a free agent in every sense of the word.

There is a mentality inherent in living together that you don't see in most marriages. Dr Harley explains it quite well in his articles. I hope you take the time to read them.

It appears that YOU didn't consider it important when you stated " I never want to get married again as it was bad enough before and there is no need for it as my children are grown and we are both making a good living, I am his life partner."

You and he have left the door open to walk away at anytime.

If he doesn't get what he wants...he could walk away.

If you don't want to be sexually exploited, you could walk away.

Neither one of you is committed emotionally to the other or you would be married.

(Something is tweaking him to pursue sex with others...porn?)

committed

If you both have no interest in being married, then why are you hunting advice on a marriage building site???

Relationships are relationships. Everybody has them and they come and go. Marriages are marriages, and half of them don't make it WITH total commitment, solemn vows up front! Marriage is a much weightier commitment than a verbal agreement to enjoy life together. And the risk of disintegration of a relationship is even greater than that 50% divorce rate.

YOU are fully committed, but it seems your partner sees it differently. For him at this point, no formal commitment=open to other sexual adventures. I don't see what you can do under the circumstances.

I understand the marriage thing, He told me that he would get married if I wanted to but I am the one who doesn't. I actually feel silly getting married at 50. We are in a committed relationship and a paper doesn't stop anybody from straying or flirting or anything. I wish it did but it doesn't. I don't think getting married would of stopped this from evolving into an issue.

I really think he is imature like somebody said above, and selfish too the more I think about it.

I really do like this site, it has helped me think this through today as yesterday all I did was cry. Thank you for helping today.

I don't want to end this relationship but I really don't want to go down his path either.

I do want to spend the rest of my life with him. Our kids love our family and he loves them with all his heart.

I don't believe in there being such a thing as a midlife crisis. Why is this label given when a partner wants to stray? Yeah we all start feeling our age at times but I don't feel the need to go tramping around or becoming a pervert so I don't feel like I missed out on something.

Just because you trust him doesn't mean he won't cheat. You don't think most BS here trusted their WS?

That is equivalent to pulling a blanket over your head to make the home invasion stop happening. Look into some statistics and realize that not only is it possible he's cheating, it's LIKELY that at least one of you is, or will be.


Always start with the internet and cellphone(s).

I'm hiding nothing from my wife besides this website, so I don't care if she snoops. If she were to snoop, it would give me a great chance to show that I'm not doing anything wrong.


Jeez, until I read this I thought you were a young couple. More proof that age and wisdom do not go hand-in-hand.

Mid-life crises are all about the ability to score with young women.

"I gotta ****edit**** a young hottie before I get too old to even make the attempt!"

Thus the increased focus on appearance, motorcycles, sports cars, skydiving, etc. It's not about a fear of growing old or a fear of death...it's ALL about getting laid by women in the 18-30 demographic, plain and simple. Don't let any other Hugh Hefner wannabe tell you otherwise.

You came HERE to ask about experience with swinging? ****edit****


Hmmm...relationship's perfect, then goes south accompanied by a middle-aged man whining about "adventure".

I wonder what could've possibly changed, especially so rapidly?

He was either using you until he grew bored with you, or he is cheating. Or both.

Either way, lose the apartment. You won't be needing it.

With all due respect, mbaby, 50 is old enough to know better than to put out for free. Why should he place a higher value on you than you do? You have devalued yourself to this man and you can see the result. His attitude is easy come, easy go. He does not value what came free and easy.

He is not committed in any way to you. He is a free agent. You were not even committed enough to be bothered to go down and get married at the Justice of the Peace. Saying one is committed is very different from being committed.

I am sorry to be harsh, but it galls me to see a woman who knows better acting so foolish. You set your price with him [FREE] and he is simply paying that price. [nothing]

Your beef is with the woman in the mirror who got herself in this mess.

Thank you for some of the thoughtful, concerened replies. I cannot believe some of you seem so angry like Krazy71? How rude you are.

I had a few simple questions I wanted to ask from a group of very thoughful, honest, married people that I have read and learned from these past few months. I am sorry if my asking you upset some of you.

Yes, this is a marriage site and yes, there is no contract but that doesn't mean you treat your spouse or partner any different. We treat them with love and kindness.

True. But that doesnt mean that a live in relationship is the same as a marriage. A marriage is a whole different ball of wax! With its own challenges.

But it also has assets that a single relationship can never have. The MB principles here harness those assets to create a great marriage.

So, yes. You can have a loving relationship. But, it will never be truly committed. As Melody stated.

Rude? Angry? Of course I'm angry. If you'd been paying any attention to what you've been reading, you'd know many of us have good reason to be very angry. Sad and depressed, too.

Your live in boyfriend (emphasis on the 'boy') is almost certainly cheating on you, or looking to.

You already know this, or you wouldn't spend any of your spare time reading this message board.

You can kill the messenger if you want to. Bury your head in the sand if you wish.

I'm trying to help you. If I had given all of my facts to these people during my wife's affair and listened to the feedback, I probably could have stopped it sooner, or prevented it altogether. At the very least, I'd be that much farther down the road to recovery, if I ever get there at all.

I let other, more patient folks talk about Plan A, Plan B, etc. I try to help others bust their cheating partners when I can.

I've been here for awhile now, and not ONE SINGLE TIME have I EVER seen a "Whew! He wasn't cheating, after all!" topic. Not one.

I'm sure your honey-bunny is the unique exception to the rule.

Just ignore the mean man on the internet.

We're not angry; we simply don't agree with your position that your live-in arrangement is as committed as our marriages, so you consider us rude? Are we not as entitled to our opinion as you are?

Those of us here, who have publicly committed, solemn vows and all, to "love, honor and cherish, as long as we both shall live" have dealt with the horror of infidelity. What we have, that you lack, is the legal, moral and social support systems that helped many of our wayward spouses see the error or their ways. Those things helped them find their way back and re-commit to those vows. Maybe it was initially no more than the shocking realization that they would be bound legally to support their betrayed wives (and children) that woke them up, or the ostracization from children, inlaws and friends, but those realities made walking away a lot harder than an "understanding" between two free agents. Made them see that what they had together was going to be financially, socially and morally very expensive to throw away.

If my FWH and I had not been married, I know for sure we would not be together after his painful infidelity. We had a legal as well as a moral commitment to each other, an otherwise strong family and strong social support. All that stuff matters. You don't seem to think so, but what will you rely on to bring your partner back to the relationship you used to share?

I think the "rude" comment was directed mostly at me.

People hate it when you give them a truth they're not ready to hear.

And I'm VERY angry.

Please remember this is a public forum and some posts you might find offensive. But there is help here that you can use, so allow your skin to thicken so you don't miss out on some gems that can help you in your situation.

My advice, which is the same as my opinion, is that you should start by snooping. His story smacks of independent thinking; ie, self entitlement. Very dangerous for any relationship.

Start with checking all his e-mails, his texting and search your credit card receipts for clues. Purchase and install a key-logger if you don't have his password to the computer. Check his car for receipts, cell phones, evidence of any kind. Fast food debris? For one or two? Hair not your color or length on the passenger seat or back seat? Time not accounted for? Working late? Buying or acquiring new music not normally his style? New cologne? Joining a gym, or going more often?

There are many clues we all saw in retrospect. Affairs have happened to many folks who showed up here who had "perfect relationships", married or otherwise...

rightherewaiting,
You stated, "If my FWH and I had not been married, I know for sure we would not be together after his painful infidelity. We had a legal as well as a moral commitment to each other, an otherwise strong family and strong social support. All that stuff matters. You don't seem to think so, but what will you rely on to bring your partner back to the relationship you used to share? "

If the reason my husband were to stay with me and work on the relationship was because of the money it would cost him to support the wife and child was too much, fine that is one thing that you needed. I don't have that situation so that is not an issue.

You ask me what will I rely on to bring my partner back to the relationship that we share? I would hope that "Me" is enough. or I would hope the love that we have shared over the years and friendship. If he had to stay because of a paper or court order tells him he has to pay my living expenses so he can't afford to leave... I really don't want him then.

You are of course, correct. For all anyone knows the strength of your relationship may far surpass the majority of married ones. You have 50 years of experience and maturity under your belt and that counts for a great deal. The relationship commitment that you share with your partner gains its strength from the efforts that you each put in. No one here should challenge your love and compassion on the pure basis of whether you are married or not. On the other hand, marriage becomes the contract that reinforces the love and commitment you profess and extends it from a promise of today into a warranty that lasts a lifetime.

There is something else I noticed that you may wish to review.


That statement by him requires a much closer examination. I wonder if it means much more than is initially apparent.

Mr. G

Yeah, every betrayed spouse on this board hoped that "me" would be enough to keep their spouse faithful.

You should've already dumped the guy for trying to coerce you into group sex, even if he isn't cheating, which he is.

Shattered dreams,
Maybe I will snoop but that would kill our trust if he found out and as I stated, I really don't think he is cheating on me. I asked him out right and he has never lied to me before in all these years.

Mr. Goodstuff,
You are right about that, I do worry about the last two months as we had a very active sex life before. Maybe it is age or boredome with the same old thing but it just doesn't add up sometimes.

Maybe I will start looking around..
thank you all,
mbaby

Of course he has. No human has ever gone that long without lying. Ever.

Snooping wouldn't kill your trust if he's a reasonable person, and you told him that you were concerned about your relationship.


He is tired of the same old thing. You. No offense intended, but every cheater views their partner/spouse as the "same old thing".

It would be difficult to solve that equation when you refuse to acknowledge the most prominent variable.

Stick around and keep up posted. We are ALL here to help. Most people post here to keep newcomers from making the same mistakes that we did, or, to own up what others could see that we refused to...

Remember secrecy is the lack of complete Openness and Honesty.

Privacy is something you allow your mate in the bathroom.

His passwords, cell phone text records, receipts and all other "relationship" transactions should be readily available to you!

When I thought it was age it was actually infidelity. So please, do look and look carefully. My guess is that there is more than meets the eye, but that is just my 50 plus years of maturity speaking.

Men are creatures of sex, so perhaps he is merely indulging his fantasies without ever actually acting on them. One thing is for sure, if you proceed down this road it will mark the beginning of the end, you can be sure of that.

Mr. G

If he was that desperately horny, wouldn't he at least throw his girlfriend a bone (so to speak) once in two months?

I snooped on my wife. Turns out she was not cheating.

She was NOT angry when I told her I'd opened her secret email account and read her emails. It did NOT kill her trust in me.

Tell him to hit the road. You don't have a marriage to save. You have a relationship with a man who wants to diddle other people, even bringing men and women into your bed.

Lose him yesterday!

mbaby,

I'm afraid you missed my point, and it may be because I did not state it clearly enough.

Legal, family, financial or social support for marriage -- any of those can give an outbound partner cause for pause. Dr. Harley, the psychologist who founded this site, and the MB program, says that ANY reason to reconsider the marriage is a place to start, and I agree.

Our kids were grown and gone, too, and finances were not a consideration for us either, so those were not my motivations for rebuilding our marriage. But we had a long shared history (37 years), an extended family and many long-term mutual friends who were horrified to learn about the upheaval in our marriage. My H responded to that, and to his guilty conscience, to his moral/religious values. While he did not believe he loved me anymore, he came back for those reasons. Those vows he made, and the social pressure from our grown kids and friends. It took time for us to rebuild, but he will be the first to say that he loves me more now than he had in years.

Point is, it doesn't matter what causes the recommitment, because if there is something of great value at stake (and it's rarely the partner they've "grown bored" with), it's a starting point. Marriage builds in some of those starting points.

That's all I was trying to say.

RHW

Mbaby, please don't take offense, but is this a hetro relationship? I always wonder when someone refers to their SO as a "life partner". With you living in New York, it just crossed my mind.

It's a hetero unmarried relationship--mbaby's opening post refers repeatedly to "he" and "him."

Yes I know, but it's possible mbaby is a "he" and "him" too.

Oh, boy. Hadn't even thought of that. I don't see any indication that that's the case, but you may be on to something.

Still, an unmarried relationship of any variety contains the same interpersonal dynamics, and the same lack of social/legal influencing factors but maybe this poster could still get some useful information here.

Wonder why he/she hasn't been back.

Dunno. Maybe couldn't relate? Thought it was odd that a mature, unmarried person would seek advice on a marriage building board. Perhaps she found more specific support elsewhere. Hope so.

Also hope they work it out--even commit fully to a lifetime marriage. But, that's just our POV, ya know?

I don't think it odd that a person in a long-term committed marriage would come here. I also think she might want to figure out if he's cheating. And, I think she should find him a way to give him some adventures shared with just the two of them.

But, Cinders, she's not married to the guy...

You said "marriage" but I think you meant "relationship", am I correct?

I agree with all three points. You are spot-on.

Mr. G