Please know that it has taken me a lot of courage to start this thread. I have faith that this will be the sad beginning of a story with a very happy ending.

My H and I have been married for 15 years (together 16) and have two totally awesome boys between us ages 8 & 5. We met on a whirlwind tour while I came to CA to see my family while on Christmas / New Year's vacation when I lived in TX. We met on New Year's eve and were inseparable. We kept a long distance relationship for a month and I decided to move out to CA to be with him. We eloped 7 months later and have been together since.

During the first 2 years of our marriage, things were great. We did things together, lead a spontaneous couples life and sex was fun. But as time went on, we erroded our marriage with numerous love busters. He became emotionally and domestically lazy and I became resentful and bitter because I felt that everything mounted on my shoulders. At the end of the night, I did not feel moved to engage in sex since I was too tired and angry from running the whole show without any help. I was at a point where I felt less than cherished and was only there as "the help" and the bedmate.

During this time, a coworker and I found a mutual interest in each other and before I knew it, I ended up kissing this man and got caught by my H's friend. I came home shameful, guilty and filled with remorse. I couldn't apologize more and begged him to forgive me. I got counseling right away and for 12 years never strayed again.

My H never did fully forgive me for that first A and it spread through our marriage like a cancer. He no longer trusted me and treated me like a child. I tolerated it because a part of me felt that I deserved to be punished but at the same time, I was living a pure life again.

Along came our children.....he treated me like less of a human being when I was pregnant with our first son and was a mentally absent dad for the first 2 years of our son's life. When our second son came along, we switch gears. I was sick and miserable being pregnant and had major post partum depression and Spartan was a hands on dad and enjoyed that pregnancy with me.

My self esteem suffered terribly and I was desperate to fill that void. Spartan and I had grown so far apart and had tried so many times to work through counseling that I had given up and resolved to stay in the marriage for the kids. I knew that I still loved him, but I didn't know how to anymore.

In my quest to boost my self esteem, I joined the gym and began training. Slowly I began to see improvements and I became obsessed with gaining results and reaching higher levels and wanted to explore the art of bodybuilding in the "figure" sect. I wanted help from others "in the know" so I opened a MySpace account. That was the demise of my innocense.....

I met a man there that I ended up having a 3 year EA/PA him. Simultaneously, my H had an EA/PA with the married woman across the street. We could not afford to live separately and so we "sort of" agreed that we would run separate lives until we could afford to move on. I was never allowed to involve the kids in my A (which I don't regret) but my H involved the kids in his because they were familiar with the neighbor and adored her. On Black Friday in '06, I went shopping with my AP and I was to come back at 6:00 so he and his AP could go out for the evening. I came back at 5:00 only to find them driving up in our Odyssey with her in the front seat and the kids in the back after a day at the zoo. I couldn't stand to see her with my kids and lost it. Spartan and I got into a very heated arguement which escalated into a physical altercation in the kitchen. I ended up throwing my shoes at him and 2 hours later was arrested with my 3 year old on my hip for felony spousal abuse. I spent 5 days in jail and was served with a restraining order on my first court hearing.

I spent 3 months living in 4 different places and to be honest,I don't remember much. I was suicidal and was full of self loathing. Not only that, but Spartan had moved the neighbor in to our house. I knew she was sleeping next to my H and loving on my children....creating Christmas memories there and there was nothing that I could do. Never once did I violate my restraining order. Not even with a phone call.

10-days before Christmas, Spartan had my mother serve me with divorce papers. I could literally hear the shattered pieces of my heart hit the floor.

In Feb. we decided to try to put our marriage back together again. Spartan told the neighbor to leave (which she did but not without several verbal lashings). I told my AP goodbye but still left the door open. I continued to sit on the fence for another year out of fear of coming back to a dead end marriage. Every time Spartan and I would get into an arguement, I would pack my bags and leave for the weekend to go back to my AP. I ended up with a lifelong reminder of my mistake. I wrote him a NC letter, changed my number, had his e-mail blocked and never looked back.

Spartan and I were doing as well as could be expected. We were numb and feigning a happy marriage in public but at home, we were living as roommates barely recognizable to each other.

I still continued to train and was readying for another figure competition. The amount of time and effort that is put in to this is exorbatant. I was spending 3 hours a day at the gym and still worked full time. During this time, I met a man at the gym who was extremely knowledgable and was spotting me and helping me reach my competition goals. Again, I was at a weak point and found myself giving him my number. I remember the very moment I did it too...that voice inside of me saying "what the HELL are you DOING?!" But I blew it off and justified what I was doing. Spartan saw all the signs and confronted me about it. As all waywards do, I lied and said that nothing was going on and that he was just a training partner (a partial truth). I carried on this A until Dec. and ended all contact with him on 12/29/08.

I can actually say that I became someone I did not know. I made a deal with the devil and let him sleep in my bed and hated every minute of it. I will do whatever it takes to become who I was in our family photos so many years ago. When I compare the "then" and "now" pictures I can see the light gone from my eyes. Absolutely vanished.......

I am currently going to a Christian counselor who counsels both Spartan and I individually and also as a couple. It works very well and we really connect with her.

I know I have a very long way to go but I feel that I have friends here who will help me every painful step of the way. I love my husband more than any man in the world. He has seen me at my best and my worst and loves me unconditionally. I want to learn to love him that same way in return.

...that's where YOU come in.

~Sparky~

See if you can spot all the DJ comments you've made in your post.

That is a good place to start.

Good luck!

What's DJ?

Disrespectful judgement


Welcome MS. I too am a FWW as well as a BW x2. My H has an OC as a lifetime souvenir of his adultery.

I'm here, Sparky, but will defer to the vets. I'll be watching every step of the way and am sending my support. You already have one of the best -- Pep -- putting you to task. Get to it. And know I'm rooting for you and Spartan.

You're in the right place.

Take care.

“YOU think that every time I leave the toilet seat up that I’m doing it because I hate you.”

That is a disrespectful judgment from a husband to a wife. In it you can see that the husband claims to know what his wife is thinking, in fact, he doesn’t even require her input. In fact, the only reason that he needs her to be present is so that he can proclaim his accusation as the truth, even though it may be nothing close to the truth. It is perhaps the most dangerous and cruel love buster of all.

Mr. G

We do that to each other almost on a daily basis.

Please stay here with me....I want us to have a wonderfully fun, passionate marriage. I want him to be my friend again.

The knowledge that all of you have is invaluable to me and I am willing to do as much introspection as humanly possible to rise above this mess.

I pray that he posts too, or at least reads my thread. We've both filled out the EA needs questionnaire but haven't given it to each other yet.

I have counseling tonight which is a good thing. I feel drained after writing/reliving that again.

You said you both have erroded the M with LBs.

The DJs you made in your first post are LBs. Finding them is good practice for you.
Try to spot them and write them here so you begin with YOU.

Good luck.

PB,

I'm anxious to start my first assignment! I will be leaving here soon but as soon as I get the kids off to bed tonight, I will go through and highlight what I see.

Pepperband:

These are the DJ's that I was able to identify.









I'm sure that your trained eye will be able to spot more, but those are the ones that stood out to me.

I had counseling tonight and stayed away from talking about FOO issues and concentrated mainly on the marriage. We talked quite a bit about what happened last Fri. between Spartan and I. He kept me up all night long and finally woke me up at 4:30 to tell me that he could no longer handle my rejections for sex. I gently explained to him that I wasn't ready but if he felt that it was something he had to take to quell his insecurities then to go ahead. He didn't want to wait any longer and took understanding that it was without reciprocation on my part. I went numb. Our counselor conceeded that sex right now isn't a good idea unless it is completely mutual. We need to learn how to touch each other and be affectionate comfortably first. I agreed, but when I came home and told Spartan he got upset. His only comment was, "why is it that you could have sex with someone else but not ME!" Tonight wasn't a good night to get into a heavy conversation like that, so we will talk about that tomorrow. First of all, 3 out of 4 of us are sick and second it it's late.

Crawl before standing. Stand before walking. Walk before running.

I ask God each day to bless this marriage and breathe new life into it.

That is a very legitimate question that you should give thought to.


She is right but what needs to take place to make it mutually desired?


Errr, from his perspective it does not appear that way.


Don’t fool yourself, his love is NOT unconditional.


Sounds like a commitment. That is good. You have come here and that says much but just showing up in these pages is not enough.


You have come to the right place.

Mr. G

Hi Sole Sister!

Just wanted to drop this note - as sad as it is for us to have met the way we have - I am excited about sharing our jounreys with each other.

Patience my dear. And - PRAYER. It took both of you to get to the mess you are in, but it's going to take 3 of you to get out. GOD is the first one. You and Sparty are the other 2.

I am very glade to call you a friend.

Now... back to your regularly scheduled program... someday soon I'll get the brave girl pants on and post my story here... I'm guessing there are some kind brave souls to help me out, and to keep pushing me forward.

IMHO, your counselor is wrong. I believe for the sake of your H and your M, you need to fake it until you do feel it again. I have gone through the VERY SAME problems with my H. I felt rejected. I felt unattractive. I was desperate for his touch. I said the same words your H said to you to my H.

Thanks, Mr. Goodstuff,

That first question really is something that I need to really put some thought in to. I know for sure that over the course of the years, the way that we've both chipped away at each other has worn away my attraction to him. We were no longer having fun.......ever. We never transitioned well between being a couple without kids to being a couple with kids. All of our couples time has been lost. Even though my parents are local, they aren't active grandparents which makes it difficult on us. We're not in a financial position to afford a sitter. We've gotten into some pretty intense conversations about parenting as well. His way of parenting is to bark and yell at the kids.....constantly. There is very little warm interation between them and it kills me. I've told him that it makes him completely unattractive to me when he yells at them, interrupts them and treats them as "just kids" instead of individuals that need to be listened to. He hardly ever lets them finish a sentance and assumes every single thing they're going to say and never gives them the benefit of the doubt. We've talked about it and he tries, but always reverts back to the old ways. Other things that drive me away are his lack of time for me. Let's say that I ask him if he can take the trash out. He'll say, "What's wrong with you doing it?" or his favorite "I don't have time." because he's involved with something else. There is never a reply of, "I'm busy right now but I'll do it after I'm done.". We've talked about that too and he always reverts back to the old ways. There's more but you get the picture. It's hard to want to be passionate with someone who is apathetic towards me and the kids.

Being here on this board is only a very small portion of the work that is going on behind the scenes here. I have taken all initiative to straighten out this mess I've made but I cannot be in a marriage alone. He says that he wants to make it work too, but the effort on his part says differently. When I had my first counseling session, I left her business card on his nightstand. I told him she wanted him to call her to set up an appointment. A month went by and nothing happened. I asked him when he would call and his first response was, "I don't have the number" which was a lie. Then the next response was "I don't have time". He was laying in bed with the business card right next to him watching TV when he said that to me. Hurts....

You can do it, sweetie!

I'm honored to call you my friend, too. Love ya, girl.

Hi, MS.

The fact of the matter is, your H may not ever seek outside help. My H is the same way.

It might be akward for your H to go to a counselor you're already seeing. He might think she's already biased toward you. He might be adamently against counseling. He might see it as an unnecessary expense. Your H may be rejecting the counselor as a way of controlling because much of his world currently feels out of his control. He may be doing it to disrespect your wishes. It may be because of something much deeper within him that has nothing to do with you. Could it be any of these reasons? We can and should support our Hs, but we cannot push them into making their Ms work.

Regarding counseling specifically, I think your H seeing you doing whatever you can to find answers within yourself is a good example so keep doing that and share with him appropriate information in a non-judgemental way.

One thing I did... My H kept asking me why I did what I did. I had such difficulty articulating because I was struggling with this myself. I read a book that devoted a chapter on why people cheat and I bookmarked this. I went to my H and said, "You've been asking me how I could have done this. You don't have to read the book or even this chapter. But I think it might provide you with better insight than what I've been able to give you so far." I placed it on our bed and walked away. That night he handed it back and thanked me for it, said he felt there was some good info in it. He read only the chapter marked (he didn't want to read more) but he appreciated my gesture in trying to help him. He didn't see it as me shoving psycho-babble down his throat.

Something to keep in mind is our first order of business as the betrayers is to do our best to help our Hs heal. Why? The way Dr. H described it to me is that you can't expect anyone to run a race (work on a problematic marriage, for example) while they have a huge, gaping wound in their leg (the discovery of an affair). We have to dig in and clean out the wound and it's going to be painful. We have to cleanse it and apply medicine. The bandage may be ripped off a few times for more work, but it must be done. And eventually when it's healed, there will still be scar. A reminder of what happened. But now the race can be run and because of the time spent to make sure the wound was fully recovered, the runner may now be even stronger, able to run faster and farther.

A marriage does take two. But how YOU grow, learn, heal from this mess -- while it can be highly influenced by outside resources (MB, God, your H) it is ultimately up to one. You. You can choose to change, let God in, be remorseful, lean on others, join MB, and do whatever else you choose. Just like we chose to have an affair, we can also choose to do the incredibly hard work to restore our souls and our lives. With our Hs standing beside us? Hopefully. But what if your H decides he can't stay? What are you going to do? Who do you want to be?

The fabulous posters on my thread keep giving great advice on how to go about healing myself and how to help my H heal and process. Among all the advice, a common theme is that I need to become the wife my H wants to be with. I need to be the L4 who is happy, healthy, fun, strong, smart, tender, silly, and HONEST. I need to be the best of me because that's who my H wants to be with. And you know what? I rather like that L4, too. So if my H decides he can't remain, I'll still be with at least one person I like.

L4,

As a wayward, I value your perspective and could see the progress that you've made by reading through your thread. I want that, too.

He has since joined me in counseling so that's a good thing. She did say that he has difficulty with introspection and with staying in touch with his feelings. She feels that he detaches himself emotionally as a protective defense against getting hurt. He also has trust issues that he's had all his life, so naturally my A's escalated that.

Is is VERY difficult to just come right out and say why I did what I did. I know he craves answers but I just dont feel like the answers would be of any help. It would almost add insult to injury. I think I will share one of the articles that I found here on the website that seemed to sum it up best for me. I just can't bring myself to say something that will tear him apart again. I've already confessed to everything that I did with the OM and when I did, I wanted to crawl into a hole.

I have chosen to peel this onion not just for the marriage, but for me as well. I became someone I absolutely didn't know anymore and that is pretty scary. If my H chooses to ride this wagon with me, I will be honored. If not, then I will continue my journey towards true inner peace and happiness that comes from me and not someone else. Yes, I'm a people pleaser and that's a major character flaw. I have no idea who I will become, but all I know is that it will so much better than what I am today.

I'm so glad you're here with me.

Sparky...

Only time for a quick post right now...but off the top of my head...

Focus more on your behavior and less on his...Remember, you can only control and change YOU...

I also agree very much with faithfulfollower that your counselor is wrong regarding SF...This is a time where you will have to do a "fake it til ya make it" deal...

One of the MOST IMPORTANT things that I've learned here is this...

FEELINGS FOLLOW ACTIONS...

Mrs. W

Are you aware sparkle that you have posted yet even more DJ's about your H? Mrs.W is correct, that feelings follow action. The last thing you want is your C to coddle you. It is hard work for a WW to become a FWW. Focus within and take your eyes off your H's flaws. As for the why's. Your answers will change the further along you are. My answers in the beginning were pretty darn selfish and immature but that was where I was at the time. The people here on MB, pepperband in particular, helped me look within myself and grow.

FF,

I honestly didn't see those when I wrote my post. It is going to take a while for me to re-train myself from my own dysfunction.

I used to laugh when people would say that I put the "fun" in dys"fun"ction. It's not so funny any more.

It is difficult for anyone to really see the true picture without knowing us personally and watching the dynamics between us. He has yet to post here but that is something that he has to decide on his own. I extended the offer by setting up his account and peacefully leaving it at that.

I know for a fact that I was fully consumed with insecurity, bitterness and a need for all eyes to be on me during my A's. I was COMPLETELY self absorbed and ignored the damage that was left in my wake of self destruction. It was years of pent of anger that engulfed me in flames of pain and instead of reaching for the heavy extinguisher, I took the prettier bottle of poison instead. I'm still going through withdrawls and feel numb inside. There are times where I will get shadows of myself back but they're fleeting. Sometimes I feel like I'm waiting for a glacier to thaw.

sparkle,

Being HERE on MB is a great place to start that thaw. Take in stride when you get flamed or when someone points out "your stuff" to you. I can tell you absolutely that those posts were the most effective for me...even though when I first read them I wanted to get angry or defensive.

Even without coming here, how is your H feeling about the MB principles? Has he read SAA? Have the two of you considered a MB weekend?

The knee jerk reaction is to take it personally, but I know that pointing out the DJ's are all part of the process to help me. All I could say was "oh geez, I did it AGAIN!" And the thing is that I did it without even knowing. But now I know what to look for.

I'm glad that I found my way here. I was on another site that just kept going round and round in circles. The amount of blatent hatred there was unbelievable. It just wasn't a safe place for a wayward to recover at all.

My H has read some things and actually liked it. He's been home sick the last few days so I'm hoping that he got on the site and looked around some. We're filling out the EA questionnaire together and are going to read them over. We'll bring them in to our next counseling session on Tues. We've considered the weekend, but we cannot afford it. Not even close.

I can understand from reading so far why you didn't get anywhere on the other site.

If I may ask, what did you learn about yourself from that site and the posters there?

I'm a BW, and blatent hatred is an understatement.

FWI ... L4 is not a wayward, listen to her words and the other FWS's.

Vittoria,

The other site basically taught me that I was cruel, selfish, inconsiderate and condemmed to being a wayward for the rest of my life, never to recover. I was forced to wear the scarlet letter for eternity and that made me feel that I was a hopeless case. I had a different screen name there and the one that I have for here was derived from my experience there. "Muted" because I was eventually banned for posting outside of my circle and "Sparkle" because I believe there is a sparkle of hope for my marriage.

Here, the center is on building up and saving the marriage. All of the tools are here and everyone here wants to see you succeed. That's what draws me here.

I will not flinch from the 2x4's when I deserve them, but I couldn't take the daily bludgeoning at the other site. I actually cried while my H comforted me and got angry at the mistreatment I got. They were just plain mean.

I am listening closely to all the FWS's as well as BS's.

Okay, I understand that your experience at the other site wasn't pleasant, and I agree very much that what differiates MB is that it focuses on a plan of recovery...

HOW.EV.ER.

The first part of your above sentence IS correct, you were all those things, and owning that will be a HUGE part of your personal recovery...There has never been a wayward in existence that wasn't "cruel", "selfish" & "inconsiderate" - in spades...You are no exception, I know I certainly wasn't...

Lastly, of course you aren't condemned to being wayward for the rest of your life...You are what you choose to be, right? So choose to own your past, accept ALL the responsibility for your choices and vow to choose otherwise now...Fair enough?

Mrs. W

THAT'S A DEAL!!!

Well ... I believe that people can change, with the right tools and the willingness to look deep inside themselves. It is important to realize how your actions have destroyed others lives forever. I hope your journey here is successful.

There isn't a day that goes by that I don't think about that and feel the pain and utter regret in my heart. Not one......

If I could change the past I would, but I have today and the future in my hands and that is why I am here.

Schweet!

Something else I wanted to mention to you regarding some of the stuff you said earlier about feeling put upon...the taking out the trash...and other tasks...

From stuff that you've said previously, I take it that you are a Christian, yes? If this is so, something for you to consider strongly is that when you serve your husband, you are serving God, and that you must do so with a willing heart...Pray for strength to do this...read what the Bible says about what it means to be a Godly wife...when you are doing that, you pray and realize that God, not you, is in charge of your husband...God is BIG...Do your part and He will do His...

Please take a look at this thread by Mortarman~~~> The Roles of Husbands & Wives It is a FANTASTIC thread...

Mrs. W

I wanted to go back to this. My early answers to "why" were:

1. I was lonely.
2. I felt isolated with a young child and my H always off doing things for other people.
3. He didn't pay enough attention to me.
4. He didn't kiss me.
5. My IC told me that affairs can be "good" for some marriages!
6. I thought since my H took my word for it that OM and I were "just friends" he must not really love me.

Later after MB and a great deal of work on myself:

1. I was selfish
2. I liked the attention OM paid me
3. I had no idea what marriage really was meant to be and how a good marriage should look. Not sure I even really listened to the vows I made.
4. I had a lot of growing up to do.
5. I learned that love is what you do, not what you feel.
6. I learned that marriage takes work and Dr. Harley really knows his stuff.
7. I had to relearn honesty. Years of lying turns you into a natural liar.

Here's the deal.
The road leading out of perdition is pretty simple. Simple meaning difficult, yes, but not complicated.

This is it ~~~> do the right thing.
You don't even need a reason, just do the right thing.
The more time you spend contemplating your own navel is less time you are out there doing the right thing.
The more time you are taking your husband's inventory is less time you are out there just doing the right thing.


If you wait for a glacier to thaw your heart before you do the right thing, you will be cold a long long time, and still not doing the right thing.

Doing the right thing will make you feel better.
Doing the right thing will make you a better woman.
Doing the right thing will allow you to respect yourself instead of seeking approval from others.

Do you know what the right thing is? Do you?

Here's a twist for you ---> do the right thing without shouting "HEY! Look at me! I'm doing the right thing!"

Do the right thing because it is the right thing to do.
Once you start down that road, you leave perdition behind.

may I add that waiting to "thaw" is waiting to feel. Again, action brings feelings.

Mrs. W: Yep, I'm a Christian!! I'm going to do some reading in 1 John tonight. Not only do I strive to be the wife my H wants me to be, but I also want to be a Godly wife.



Oooo Faithful Follower, that post hit home. I can identify with both lists completely. Damn if that second list isn't a bitter pill of honesty to swallow! But if I don't, I'll never get well and my marriage is destined to fail.

Just a little tid bit for you Muted

I find this hurtful, disrespectful and immature. You'd be best to think before you post. I don't see how you understand the hurt you've caused when you make light of it here.
Someone tell her how to block me, I don't know how to do it. And I doubt that I will be able to stay quiet with her.

Best I leave the comp now.

It wasn't meant to be disrespectful! I read the bible, go to church and am working on my relationship with Jesus. What I said was not meant to be taken like that!

I know right from wrong and was just trying to lighten up some of the darkness that I feel right now.

Again, I am sorry that I have offended you, Vittoria. It wasn't mean to be like that!

I could be wrong, but I don't think it was the Jesus part so much as it was the flippancy with which you treated the sex with OM vs. sex with your husband...complete with cute little emoticons...

While it's true that we often have a bit of fun around here, adultery is NEVER the funny part...It has destroyed so very many lives...Sparky, Dr. Harley compares the pain of an affair to the pain of being raped or losing a child...It is that serious...

Mrs. W

MutedSparkle,

I am sure you didnt intend to offend and I dont mean to pile it on here but I am interested in what Spartan thinks of your comment. Does he think it is funny also or does he think it is hurtfull and insensitive? If spartan thinks its funny then so be it. You two share a sense of humour which most here do not but that is your business. I would just be a little more sensitive to others.

On the other hand if he see's your comment as hurtful and insensitive then you have learned a valuable lesson with this. You need to try and appreciate your situation from his persepective. What may seem like an off hand, glib comment to you may be tearing him to shreds. If you can begin think in terms of his perspective you will give yourself a tremendous advantage in pursuing recovery.

Best Wishes!

OK, I have sat back and watched this thread go from good to bad in a matter of seconds. My wife Sparkle has been doing alot to change the way she conducts her life on so many levels that you just don't know. I am proud of the progress that she has made in the last few months. And I know that her sense of humor may seem that she is making light of the situation but it is not. She has owned her actions and reactions to the things she has done and said to me and others. I have told her that I will stick by her side no matter what happens. I can understand that some of you still deal with triggers just like sparkle and I do but this is supposed to be a place to go to get help and info from all sides of the spectrum, when sparkle came home to me tonight almost in tears because someone did not understand the way she said something, I felt that I needed to say something. So please, be quick to listen, slow to speak, andslow to get angry. James 1:19. Thank you for all the help and insight that you have given her, please be gentle. Spartan

Sparkle will need to toughen up a little. It was an insensitive comment from her.

Well hello there Mr. Sparty! Glad to see you here!

While I appreciate very much your protection of your wife, a couple of things...

1. This stuff ain't for wimps, and it DOES require thick skin...

and

2. You will find that the empathy and sympathy is reserved here for the victims...

Let me say that I really like your wife, her personality shines right through in her posts...she's got spunk and I dig it...however, one of the things that got her to where she is today is not considering others before she acts...I know this, because I am a FWW myself...So it's an important lesson for her to recognize her audience here...to have great empathy towards the many victims scattered about the halls of MB and that in turn will help her and ultimately your marriage...

I hope that you guys will think about this and give it your consideration...I'm very glad that you are both here and I'm most definately rooting for your marriage...

Best,

Mrs. W

Me too! Please keep in mind the majority of the posters here are hurting BS's. Now back to healing your marriage!

Mrs. W you are right. she is very emo though and she has alot on her plate. I am not easy on her either. I do still hurt. Just don't want her to be scared away from her only means of real support. Her skin does need to thicken a little for this board i agree. that will just take time also. yes her sense of humor can be taken the wrong way at times and sometimes she realizes it after the fact but i know that she doesn't mean to offend anybody. She can be a wonderful wife and mother when she wants to be, she just has derailed herself a few times. And I think with all of your help and my continued understanding we can make it. Don't think that i'm being soft on her, I have told her that this is the last time I will stand for this behavior, it has hurt me beyond words. I just want it all to go away.

I echo these same words.

I know that there are members here who are like me wayward and betrayed. That doubles the confusion and pain. I do need to say that I also hurt as a betrayed spouse as well.

Yes, my skin does need to thicken so that I can take things in stride and not retreat back into myself. That's always been my safe escape. It's very hard to put yourself out there publically and say, "look what I've done" and hope that someone will help you get back to where reality is.

I'm glad that Spartan came forth, but I'm not sure how regular he will be. He reads but usually isn't a poster like me.

The victims in the case of Spartan and Sparkle are “Spartan and Sparkle”. They are both victims. They both need our help.

Mr. G

I completely understand as I am both a FWW and a BS. However, this thread needs to focus on you as the WW.

I agree but they need their own threads. This thread should be to help sparkle earn her F.

Interesting that you say this Mr. G... it was a thought that I myself was trying to put together. 2 weeks ago, in a conversation that I had with my alien-abducted-in-a-really-thick-fog-selfish WH, he told ME he is the victim in all of this! WTH??? Yea, he's the victim. Not me, he is. After reading this thread, I figured it out... Yes, he is a victim of this. Of himself, and his own selfishness that HE is fulfilling by running away from problems that are just going to keep chasing him until he faces them.

PLZ no 2X4's... I don't know if it's because I know Sparky and Sparty in real life or what, but I know that the BOTH want help. For for restoration of themselves and of the marriage. She helped me re-discover this site, and has helped me to understand so much about the alien that has become my husband. The comment Sparky made was made without ill intent. the unfortunate thing about the typed word, we can't actually HEAR the persons voice when they "Say" something.

Now, that being said... should she "grow" thicker skin? Sure.... Shouldn't we all? Sure. But, it's hard to when there is still healing to be done. And, it's hard not to make that "thicker" skin become calloused and so hard that it needs to be filed off in layers....

Just my 2.5 cents.
And yes Sparky.... I'll be posting my own junk from the trunk soon. I like to formulate what I need to say first.

I admire how you immediately came to your wife's defense. That is very telling. Reminds me of me.

Mr. G

Hey, Sparkmeister.

We make mistakes. Some big, some not so big. You came, you commented, you saw, you learned, you apologized, and you're changed because of it. Guess what? There's a chance you might make another mistake too. Oh my gosh... You're human! (I was worried there for a moment.) Just do your best to not make the same mistake twice -- then you and everyone around you will know you are hearing, internalizing, and truly changing.

On these boards you get a hand slap or a 2x4 the first time you mess up -- depending on the offense. A mack truck is what you get for repeating that offense and those are harder to recover from. So you probably want to avoid those, right?

You need to be here. We both do. We'll get smacked. And when deserved, we'll get smacked hard.

BTW, I know that feeling... You post something, you see someone has posted back, you open the thread, then you start reading and understand that the poster saw your words in a different way, or saw them for what they really are and you realize you've hurt someone -- someone you don't know in a way that you absolutely didn't mean to. There's an immediate pit in your stomach and you want to scream out to all of MB-Land, "I didn't mean it that way and I'm so very sorry!" I know because I've BTDT.

You want to open up about everything in this safe place because people here know you even though they don't know you. There isn't anywhere else that provides what MB does. Yet... You also feel there are things you can't admit or say because you want to be sensitive to the gamut of experiences and emotions that are here. There is that fine line for us FWW. In my case, folks here know more than even some of my closest friends, but they still don't know it all due to my continued shame and disgust about some of my behaviors. My H knows every sorrid detail, but you never will, even though I know MBers have heard pretty much everything.

Why I'm going on and on is because I want you to feel comfortable posting here and learning what you need to in order to process and repair this mess you've gotten yourself and poor Spartan into. Please know this is a good place. Know that there are people who are going to appreciate what you share. Know there will be those who hurt because of what you share. Know you need to be open, honest, AND sensitive with what you share. And know that everyone here wants the best for you and Spartan. I, for one, hope that best ends up being the two of you together in a healthy and happy marriage.

Now come on and get back to healing Spartan and recovering yourself. We have work to do.

I've enouraged Spartan to start his own thread so that we can each get the guidance we need separately. Pray that he does!

Mr. Goodstuff:

That's one of the things that I've admired about him. When things REALLY got down to it, he would rise to my side. I told him that last night before we went to bed. I thanked him for his words here and let him know how much it meant to me. He saw me soften and it brought is closer together. That was nice!

I want to do something special for him tomorrow but I'm not sure what yet. He's pretty sick right now so our plans for taking the family out may not happen. Hmmmm.......that will be a fun project to think about!

L4, thank you for your kind words.

Yesterday when I left work, I knew inside that I totally blew it with Vittoria and that left me with a very sick feeling. Not only did I inadvertantly hurt someone whom I didn't know, but I also hurt someone who was trying to help me. I felt EXACTLY the way you described.

I've left out some of the specifics of my A as well because they're simply too private. My H knows those ugly details and that's all that matters. I still get angry with myself but at some point, there needs to be forgiveness in order to progress. I know that Jesus has forgiven me and that's HUGE! Spartan has too, but there is healing that needs to take place and that requires God and time.....for both of us. We essentially took out our guns and shot each other. We have come to a point now where we can joke about the shoe throwing incident. When the news came on about Bush dodging the shoe, he asked me if that was one of my friends. We cracked up! Geez....

All he cares about is that you are not going anywhere, you’re home. That is gift enough.

Mr. G

Vittoria is great and has been a huge help for me, so I understand your disappointment. But hey, if she's not comfortable returning, that's respectable and there's nothing you can do. (Though I know you really want to, right? Because we're both people pleazers and that's something PPs do and dwell on. I know, I know, I know...) Be mindful there are others who are here. Invaluable resources so lean on them.

I'm in no position to advise on the whole forgiveness thing as I'm where you are. In fact, even farther behind as my H has not forgiven me and may never do so. Everyone says I have to forgive myself -- my IC, MIL, family, friends, and yes, even my H. But I haven't granted myself that and am unsure how it might look. I even posted on here asking FWW's how they forgave themselves and it got little action. I think because this is one of the most difficult things for us FWWs to consider let alone accomplish.

There are two books that I've been re-reading that are helping me some. You appear familiar with one of the books, The Bible. The other is a book called How Can I Forgive You?: The Courage To Forgive, the Freedom Not To by Janice Abrahms Spring that I've recommended often on these threads. There's a section on how to forgive yourself.

Cool!

L4,

Maybe this is where I can come to your side. I know that as a F wayward, you almost feel arrogant granting yourself forgiveness for your affair. Forgiveness doesn't mean that it erases the act, but it does give us the freedom to move on from a lesson. As humans, we cannot forgive AND forget because we need to learn. Jesus is the only one who can forget because he doesn't need to learn those lessons. I have my days where sometimes I feel that feeling creeping in on me and I want to take back that forgiveness (especially when I see Spartan hurting) but I know that it's just the adversary trying to pull me back in. He knows that when you haven't forgiven yourself, it makes it easy for him to convince you that since you're already tainted, you may as well finish the job. Don't let him win! Once you've asked Jesus for forgiveness, you know it's a done deal.

Ahhh now see, you have discovered a really neat little side effect of 2x4s here! I remember those! Mr. W also comforted me when I got them...very cool, BECAUSE, the folks here get to "tell it like it is"...Sparty doesn't have to, and you guys end up bonding over it...It's actually a pretty sweet, little formula, imo...

Something you said reminded me of a message given by one of our teaching pastors and his wife...You talked about the two of you shooting at each other, and you couldn't be more right about that...That is one of Satan's favorite things to do to Christian couples...divide and conquer by letting them destroy each other! It's so easy for him that way! It is a nasty form of spiritual warfare...

For our wrestling is not against flesh and blood, but against the principalities, against the powers, against the world-rulers of this darkness, against the spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places . Ephesians 6:12

Very important to recognize this and come together as a unified opponent against Satan, because he WILL test you again and again...

Mrs. W

L4, it took me two years on MB to forgive myself and to accept that God had forgiven me. I still cringe at the thought of how I carelessly and selfishly almost tossed my family away. Giver yourself time.

You're exactly right. Some of your posts remind me of the things that Spartan would say. You two are kindred spirits.

He's a "no frills" kinda guy which balances us out perfectly. I'm into the pretty details and he's in to the basic foundation of things. He's a mechanic by trade and I've always loved to watch him methodically and patiently work on things. When we first met, I would go over to the shop and watch him work on cars. I remember watching him put an engine completely back together and was AMAZED when he started it up and it ran perfectly. Made me so proud of my man! I still feel that pride.

Does he know this? When was the last time you told him you are proud of him and why?

Actually, I told him last night! Not so much a pride thing but I told him how good I felt when he posted to my thread because I felt protected. I didn't have that growing up so it's nice to feel safe knowing that your man is there.

For our first Valentine's day together, he put a stuffed animal raccoon on my bed...the "Love Bandit". I still have him and I think I'll bring it out on Valentine's day and put him on our bed. Those were great memories for us!

MS,
I was not looking for an apology, nor is one owed. Nothing was directed at me personally. It's not about 'blowing' it with me either.
It wasn't about your words per say but the whimsical attitude in which they were written in direct response to PB's words. This attitude showed little or no remorse for the pain any BS and family have experienced.
I did not read this wrong nor do I need thicker skin. I have survived fog babble, hurtful words and lies from a WH. I'm far from being a pro but I am a player.

On the positive side, your posts seem to have more thought, this is a good thing.
That's all.

Thanks, Vittoria. I really appreciate you coming back.

Spartan and I had a pretty quiet Valentine's day. Couldn't really do too much because all 4 of us were sick with that cold/cough that is going around. I spent most of the day curled up on the couch drinking Thera-Flu.

I didn't get any text messages or phone calls from my xOM but I did receive some flowers which I refused. Spartan got very upset and I told him, "Why let him win by getting upset? He wants us to fight so that I'll leave you." He retreated to the bedroom to watch TV and stayed away from me which hurt. I didn't ask for flowers and so now he questions whether or not NC is still being maintained. I can show him all of my e-mails, texts and phone records as proof that I'm honest. The only thing I can't do is show him my work e-mail because I work in a secured building (he isn't allowed to come in) and we can't access e-mail remotely. That's something I can't do anything about.

Today he's clingy and wants SF but I feel too crummy to do anything. I would if I could. I have tomorrow off to be with the kids since it's a holiday and I know he'll be feeling insecure because I'm home without him. He's been off for 4 days without pay because of this cold and now we can't make the mortgage payment. I'm a bit upset about that.

Stupid rollercoaster.

Sparky,

Has OM been sent an MB style no nonsense NO CONTACT letter that Sparty read, approved and mailed?

Mrs. W

No, not yet. This is the first time that I've heard from him since 12/29. We'll have to talk about that later on tonight. He's working a side job today that will more than likely occupy him for most of the day.

We're still having communication problems. A good friend of ours (my coworker whose H I caught with the OW) wanted to spend a couple of hours with me just to talk. She wanted to go to lunch and then hit one of the thrift stores. Sparty asked why I wouldn't take the kids. He doesn't allow me any private time with my girlfriends even when they're friends with both of us and would NEVER allow me to contact the OM. Sometimes I feel trapped because of that. I don't go out to bars (unless Sparty is with me) I just like to do things with my girls.

Muted:

Have you stopped going to the gym? You talk about your financial pressures, so I hope that this is one expense that has been cut.

Are you spending that time in your home? With Spartan?

Your here and learning. You had several A's and you and your WH even had "mutually agreed to" A's about three years ago.

So what is Spartan doing? He's got alot to fix as well.

You still have to fix yourself. And you should, no matter what.

Then you have a shot.

Spartan needs to get on board as well.

LG

It's time to put this A to an official end with a NC letter.

I am posting what Mel advised me the very first day I started posting. I don't think I could add much, as Mel has such a way with words.

Our #1 job in recovery is to learn how to protect our spouse and our marriage.

This protection includes NOT doing things that will cause your husband fear, concern, worry, etc.

IMO, Going out SOLO is not a good plan.

Our old habits and our old ways of doing things like, "I just like to do things with my girls", needs to be completely overhauled. Like your husband might say, ..."an oil change ain't gonna fix this marriage, that old engine has been blown and is need of a complete restoration".

I have been in recovery for 16 months and I CHOOSE to always take my wife or one of our children with me or I don't go. It is one of the few ways I have available to show my wife that I want her to feel safe.

You can always invite a friend over to your house if you have the need to visit and catch up.

MS, I hope you can see that NC has been broken!!! This is why you need an official NC letter.

I'm sure you felt hurt, but you need to be thinking about how your H felt and what you can do to stop all of HIS pain.

You kept the door open on your other A, and you're doing the same thing here by not sending a NC letter!

This one comment concerns me greatly. Have you changed your cell phone number since ending the A? If you have not, which is what this sounds like, it needs to be one of those protection actions that you do immediately.

There's no good excuse for leaving this door open to OM.

I agree 100% with tst, Sparky...

No contact has indeed been broken and I can see very clearly why your husband would feel EXTREMELY uncomfortable with you going out today w/o your children...For all he knows you could be hooking up with OM...

This is NOT a "communication problem"...This is a direct result of your adultery - part of the consequences of your choices...Of course Sparty feels unsafe - HE IS...And this is especially so after yesterday's flower episode...This has set Sparty back to Dday...And believe it or not, it has set you back as well (I know you will argue with me on that though! ) But just the wording you used about being "trapped" let's me smell the fresh contact on your breath...You are not "trapped", you are where you are based upon your choices...You are a grown woman, and the cage door is open if you wish to go...It always has been...But you have chosen to stay and work on things...Stop trying to make Sparty responsible for your choices...

Telling you to write a MB style NC letter to OM that Sparty, reads, approves and sends is NOT the same as you "contacting" OM for a fix...This needs to be done to place the final nail in the affair coffin...Refresh my memory, is OM married? If so, has his wife been informed of your affair?

Mrs. W

This entire post is all about YOU.

THAT is WAYWARD thinking.

Ahem, and yet you felt well enough to want to go to lunch and shopping with a girlfriend...Sorry, Sparky this excuse doesn't fly with me...

OF COURSE HE FEELS CLINGY TODAY!!! Who wouldn't in his place? Do you understand that men connect with us through SF? He needs to feel that connection with you right now...Please don't deny him this...AND as I told you on another thread, FEELINGS FOLLOW ACTIONS...So please Sparky, go be loving with him and start to help him heal...

Mrs. W

Thanks, eveyone.

I have been a wayward for the last 3 1/2 years and it's going to take me a while to earn my "F". I've been in that way of thinking for a long time and I need help to unlearn it.

tst: We'll get together tonight to put together a NC letter. Sparty said, "I have other things to do besides sitting on a computer all day talking to people I don't know." when I asked him if he would be willing to start his own thread. All I can say is pray that he will......pray hard with me! He hasn't done any reading or anything on his own as far as beginning to restore our marriage. I can't make him and I won't. I will continue doing it with or without him. I still train at the gym but have cut back on other expenses. I am getting certified to do group fitness instruction and am also readying to teach children's cardio. I am passionate about fitness....it's not just a hobby.

Mel/Mrs. W: I haven't contacted him, but I know you'll call me out on this one since the OM broke NC. I could change my number but he can easily get my new one. I have to post my number on my e-mails and he could get the new number from my out of office replies. I work a 9/80. The company does not provide us cells...we use our own. I haven't seen nor heard from him up until yesterday. There are times where Sparty's xOMW will send him random texts even to this day. We ignore them.

My girlfriend came over and picked me up at home. We went to lunch and then the thrift store and came right back. Spartan doesn't have a problem with this friend. She would never in a million years cover for me and Sparty knows that. In fact, I only have a handful of friends and he knows them all. Most are from church.

Both of my OM were single. The last OM is 50, never married, no kids. Been engaged 3x but never followed through.

I plan on loving on him tonight after he's done working on his friend's truck.

Our damaged marriage will not be healed overnight and for now, I will be the one putting forth the efforts.

I can't speak for him. I've encouraged him to start his own thread but he says, "that's not my thing". If I speak for him, that is removing the focus on what I need to work on. Can you show me how that is wayward thinking? I don't understand.

I'm not asking you to speak for him. What I mean is that your entire post was full of me me me me.

When a WS becomes a FWS, their entire focus turns to how do I help my BS heal from all the damage and destruction I have caused them. How can I be a better spouse? How can I protect my spouse from hurt?

I'll go through your post in a minute and explain what I mean.

Contact is contact kiddo...Doesn't matter who initiated it...It does the same amount of damage either way...Stop making excuses...write the no nonsense NC letter and change the cell number...Do whatever you have to do to protect your marriage...So what if OM "could" get it...Doesn't mean he will...Many of these things are good will gestures towards Sparty...Please do them...Again, feelings follow actions...

Mrs. W

You're right, Mrs. W. NC letter will be a good project for us tonight (or for me tomorrow while I'm off).

I wish that he was more involved in our recovery process. He just doesn't show any interest. Not even when I offer up my phone or the phone bill to show him. He says he just wants to move on and forget about the whole mess altogether. Maybe his way of doing that is to move on like it never happened. If that's the case, we're on very different planes.

My friend today said that she wishes that she were in my shoes and that her H were like me. I told her that it got real close to us NOT being where we are today.

Today while I was picking out clothes, I looked at things that Spartan would have liked rather than what the OM would have liked. It gave me a lot of comfort doing that! Spartan likes the Lara Croft from Tomb Raider look. I like it, too!

When I say that your post was all about you, I mean that you are still focused on your own wants. MB is about caring and protecting your spouse. I saw none of that here. I saw a WS thinking the world still revolves around her.





The flowers were a smack in the face to your BH. A very painful thing for him to have OM give you a gift.

But your focus was on yourself instead of your BH.





I'm sure he was.





So you told him that his feelings were not appropriate.

You told him that he shouldn't get upset.

You told him that he shouldn't be feeling this TRIGGER! He doesn't get to choose his triggers. They come out of no where and slam him.

He is dealing with that trigger because of your affair. A spouse committed to recovery will want to help their BS get through that trigger, not blow it off...which IS what you did by not acknowledging the pain and fear those flowers caused him.

If you want to help him heal, you will take these moments to reassure him that you love him and want to be with him. These are the moments that lead your marriage to recover or not.




YOU were hurt????!!!!

Ah, poor you.

You were hurt because he actually dared to be upset that OM is still after his wife.

Do you not see that he RETREATED to a safe place...because YOU are not a safe place.

Think about how you can make yourself a safe place for him in these moments...because there will be more.





OF COURSE he questions NC. And he will for a very long time. The more you think of HIS feelings and respond to him with love and care, the more he will become secure in NC.

But you need to expect him to question it, even when there is no "reason" to question it. The fact that you had the affair is reason enough right now.




He should have access to these anyway, without having to ask.

And when he feels insecure, you need to OFFER UP these things to him.




You had an opportunity to put his needs first and chose not to. He is bleeding on the floor still, and your job is to nurse him back to health. Instead you take a coffee break.




You could, but wouldn't.

Did you stop to consider how your BS would feel about you feeling too crummy for SF, but not too crummy for going out with a friend.

You put yourself first by not only denying his request for reassurance, but also by doing what you wanted...hang with a friend.

You put your wants ahead of his needs. That won't lead you to recovery.




So what are you going to do to make him feel more secure?

How can you meet some of his ENs tomorrow while you are apart?





So your mad that he got sick and couldn't work, but think it's OK for you to deny SF because you feel crummy...but not crummy enough to miss out on going out with a friend.

You placed your marriage in a very low priority spot today.





Honey, your rollercoaster ride ain't no where near what your BS's ride is like.

Turn your focus OFF of yourself. Start asking yourself:

How can I meet my BS top ENs today?
What can I do today to help my BH heal a little more?
How can I make him feel safe with me today?

I appreciate the enlightenment, SMB.

I am also a BS, so I know that feeling as well. Were you able to read my initial post?

As I said, I only speak for myself. When he wants to voice his side (and I've encouraged him many, many times) he has the opportunity.

Each time I offer up receipts, cell texts or bills he'll push them back at me and say, "If I want to see them, I'll ask."

He kept me on a very short leash even pre-A. He would leave me and go out with his friends until 1:00am, but when I went out for coffee with my best friend, he would call me every 10 minutes. Eventually, she stopped calling me to go places. She is about the purest person you will ever meet. Only been with 1 man (her husband), never been drunk, never smoked and has never done drugs. She was in the birthing room when both of my children were born. That's how close of a friend she is.

Three hours at the gym - after working hours...found a way to still have another affair...NOT a tight leash :RollieEyes:

I think you're rewriting your history here.



His poor PAST behavior is not a reason to justify your current poor choice..... Do you recognise that you are justifying your choices instead of looking for a way to make changes in yourself and in the ways you behave?

Doesn't matter if your friend is Mother Theresa, you've missed SMB's point entirely. You chose to be well enough to go out but were too wiped out for SF??

This is an exersize that you need to do on your own. Post the letter here for feedback and then present it to your husband for approval. Your husband is to seal and mail this letter to insure that it went out. Does this make sense?



It's time you get your priorities in order here.

Your last affair happened in the gym, right? Is this the same gym you still train at? If it is...... It's time to leave!

For your marriage to be a success, you need to be passionate about your marriage, not about the gym.

You need to change your entire focus!

You have been treating your marriage like a hobby and investing all of you into what really is a hobby.

Your worried about teaching childrens cardio, and your marriage is barely funtioning on life support. The heart of your marriage has been dead and may have a chance to be revived, but you are already complaining about not giving up the one thing that led to your last affair.

Have you been able to read Dr. Harley's books yet?
"Surviving An Affair" and
"His Need's, Her Need's" and
"Falling In Love, Staying In Love"

I recommend them in that order.

No no...this is all getting confused here. I only train 1hr a day at the gym and that is during my lunch hour. When I get ready to compete, that's when it becomes 3hrs a day for 16 wks. I have chosen to forfeit contest this year. That was decision I made on my own in order to work on the marriage.

Don't worry about SF. I'll be all over him tonight. I just didn't feel as well as I do now this morning.

I feel like I can't say anything right sometimes. It's hard to see the whole scope of someone when they're only putting a brief description of their life here and their spouse refuses to post.

I forgot to add that I got him a very heartfelt card with his favorite candy on Valentine's Day. I also got the kids cards and candy from us. I also didn't add that he brought out a bottle of champagne that the realtor gave he and his xOMW when they were going to sell our house, for us to drink last night. I wasn't feelin' it. Was I wrong?

Tomorrow I will be doing things indoors with the kids since it will be cold and rainy. He isn't an involved dad and I love to do things with them, so that's no biggie. He can call me anytime he wants and can meet me wherever I am. I don't mind. If he wants text pics, no problem. I don't have anything to hide.

It's not getting confusing at all. I understood all this 3 hrs/1hr stuff already.

Did you miss my other post?

How are things going, Sparky?

Bumping for Sparky

I'm here!! Been off of the board for a while to get centered at home and concentrate on the fellas (Spartan and the little ones) as well as my health. I finally got some antibiotics and am feeling much better.

Sparty was gone over the weekend and it was just the boys and I. I went through the house like a white tornado and cleaned like I used to do prior to the affairs. When he got home, the house was sparking clean, with lit candles and pretty orchids sprinkled about the house. All of the laundry was done and his clothes were hung and ready for him. I also got him a few treats from the grocery store and he really liked that. Took the kids out to an indoor playscape (like Chuck E. Cheese on steroids) and had a BLAST!! They were so well behaved the whole weekened....they made mama proud! When Spartan got home, he was very, very happy. I wanted to finish things off with SF but my IUD is causing me some very serious problems. I'm under a doctor's care for that right now.

I also got all of our finances in order and have a "bailout plan" in the works for us. I have made sacrifices to help the plan along. I asked Spartan if he would be willing to surrender his motorcycle (it was bought 3 years ago without me knowing) because the payment is hard for us to make, but he declined.

We're closing in on coming up with a treatment program for our oldest son. After 4 years of counseling, she feels that he is either OCD (like me) or ADD. We've filled out numerous amounts of paperwork between his counselor, school and pediatrician and I've done extensive research and reading on my own to help solve the puzzle. My current read is "The Explosive Child" by Ross Greene, Ph.D. It's become my bible for working with him and getting through his rigidity. He goes in Mon. for a trial on medication. I'm resolute with that because I know that it won't be a forever thing.

Spartan and I will be going on a date somewhere this weekend. Not sure where but it will depend on how I am feeling. I'm so tired from the excessive bleeding. I would also like to do something as a family.

Counseling is going well but we need to find a sitter so that we can both go together. That's been a problem and my parents won't help.

In any case, we're doing ok (other than being a little short on cash). We haven't been to church in several weeks and I can feel that I am missing Christ in my life. My connection is weak and that isn't good. I've set aside time to read the bible tonight and would like to do that together with Spartan if he is willing.

I've ordered "His Needs Her Needs". Should be here next week sometime.

I'm glad you're here and absolutely understand why you've been away, Sparkalina. It's nice to read you were able to get some things accomplished around your house and spend time with you family.

It sounds like you're putting a lot of effort into everyone you love around you. It also sounds like you may be running yourself into the ground. Please be sure to also take care of yourself.

Thanks, Looking4.

I've been bleeding pretty heavily for 2wks with some intense abdominal and lower back pain. When I do too much physical activity, I'll start bleeding more. I get bloodwork done tomorrow morning and will then go in for a follow up next week. My IUD may be imbedded or partially expelled. I hope we aren't having a miscarriage.

Spartan and I are going on a date tonight! Not sure where we'll eat but even if it is Taco Bell I'll be happy. Simple is always better. I get off an hour early today so I'll get the kids and vacuum before the sitter comes. I'll have just enough time to fix my hair and freshen up a bit before Spartan comes home.

I got a finned boyfriend at lunch today to keep me company here at work. He's a beautiful light orange colored Betta named Mad Max. My cube neighbor said that he looks like a pissed off goldfish, so that's what we all named him.

Glad to see you back, Sparklemeister! Sorry to hear about your health issues though...Hope all goes well...

LOL @ your ticked off goldfish, "Mad Max"...Our dd also has a Betta...His name? "Alpha Betta"...

Mrs. W

I'm no doctor, but I'd get your 8-year-old to vacuum. Ya, it may not end up being the most thorough job, but he should be able to get the big stuff. I say this because you should rest if you can considering all that's happening. You should take your time getting ready for your date night, and why not get the kids to do something for you and for their house?

My son has been vacuuming over a year now and while I have to sometimes follow up his work, it's definitely fine in a pinch. I know you want the house to look great, Sparky, but you being healthy in the overall scheme of things, and you being comfortable for your alone time with your hubby tonight are more important.

I look forward to hearing how it goes.

Enjoy!

-L4

Oh that's cute! We have a girl Betta at home that the boys named, "Swishy". They can eat meat, did you know that? I feed mine by hand....they've had tuna, turkey, chicken, shark, steak, boiled egg whites and sugar snap peas. Aggressive little critters!!

Thanks for your warm concerns. I'll be ok once I find out what's going on. Not knowing is the worst. Not to mention that it's uncomfortable.

DS1 goes in on Monday for his medication assesment. Can't say that I'm not nervous about that. I don't want him to lose the essence of who he is. I hope that makes sense. I love him exactly the way that he was made. I guess that's just part of being a mom........constant worry out of love!

Spartan and I went out for dinner on Friday night and walked around downtown for a few hours and then on Sat. I planned to have us go to a local aquarium as a family. We had a really cool time petting the rays and sharks in the touch pool. The sharks are so relaxed and docile! I wanted to take one home....they're so cute and soft!!

In any case, I sent my girlfriend in MN some pics of the fish and also got some calls from my other girlfriend in town because she's going through a really rough time and is an emotional mess. Spartan started to feel insecure about the phone and I pleaded with him to read my messages, check the numbers and answer the phone but he declined. How do I work with this when I've got nothing to hide and am offering but he won't look? I don't have a myriad of friends (just a few close ones) and he knows them all. They've even offered to reassure him but he doesn't want to talk about it.

Yesterday we went to church and DS2 cuddled with me the whole time during worship. After that, we went home and did the normal Sunday routine of laundry, coupon clipping and grocery shopping to get ready for the week. While I was at the grocery store, I saw our neighbor from down the street and she and I talked for a while about the kids (our sons are in the same class) and what's in store for them for 4th grade. When I got home, I told Spartan that I saw her and offered to have him call her to verify. He got angry with that and rolled his eyes at me. He's been doing that a lot lately.

Today is DS1's appointment and I'll be taking him. I'm also going to check into Karate classes for the boys because they've been wanting to get involved. I think it would be good for us as a family and as a couple. As they're in class, we could have a little couple's time while we watch them practice and learn.

I'm going to do some reading in my bible today and place our marriage at the foot of the cross.

mute

"Spartan started to feel insecure about the phone and I pleaded with him to read my messages, check the numbers and answer the phone but he declined."

When you answer your phone do you just say hello or do you mention your friends name so your BH knows who called?

Example, hello, blah, blah. Which means WW is keeping me in the dark it can be an OM. Or hello Mary, blah, blah. BH knows who you are talking to.

"When I got home, I told Spartan that I saw her and offered to have him call her to verify. He got angry with that and rolled his eyes at me."

You should ask BH to go shopping, you should take a child with you when BH can't go so BH knows you won't be with an OM if you have your kid there. Kid not available, mom, sister.

You can also leave your phone laying out in the open when at home.

Does BH have email, IM, and text passwords?

Hi Road,

Acutally, I'm one of those people who addresses my girlfriends as "sweetie" or "sugar" on the phone. Have for years but when he asks who's on the phone, I tell him and pull the phone away from my ear so he can see the picture and phone number. The volume is also fairly loud so he can hear the conversation.

He couldn't go shopping with me because he was taking apart a friend's motorcycle in the garage. I didn't even think to take the boys with me because they were enjoying their time on the X-Box playing Lego Batman. That's a weekend treat for them. I'll take one of them next time.

Since we don't have a house phone, my cell is always out in the open. His too.

I send e-mails from our home address and only have a Yahoo account as a junk collector. He has that password. I don't IM or have passwords for my phone. I manage a MySpace account for a Christian band called High Flight Society (I'm the LA street team leader) and he has the password for that as well. I do all of the maintenance on that on his computer so he can track all history. The only thing I use my computer for is downloading MP3's. For the most part, DS2 uses my computer for Nickelodeon and Cartoonnetwork sites. I do all the rest of my surfing on Spartan's PC for transparency and he gets annoyed with that.

Footnote to last post.

I am doing everything that I can to build our marriage into an empire of love and support but I don't feel reciprocation from BH.

Before church, I got up early and watered all of the orchids and plants, emptied the dishwasher and got the kids ready (while BH slept in) and when he got up, I asked if he could please clean a spot on the carpet where the cat yacked. His response to me in front of the boys was, "Why do I have to do it?"

I asked him when he would be willing to read some of the articles on here or some of the books in order to work with me on the marriage and his reply was, "I don't have time. I have to work to make money for us." I understand that, but I also work full time and do all of the upkeep on the house. I FIND time to read because it's important to me.

mute

"I'm one of those people who addresses my girlfriends as "sweetie" or "sugar" on the phone. Have for years but when he asks who's on the phone"

Yes and your one of the people that miss the point. You are a WW. You broke your BH's trust. Yet when shown a way for you to keep your BH from triggering when you are on the phone. You just say that's how I roll when I answer the phone.

It does not matter if this is the way since you answered the phone since you were a teenager, during the affair, or since D day.

Instead of making excuses and justifying how you ansewr the phone you need to say hello mary, hello mom.

Why do you insist that you should not change how you answer the phone?

You must not be sincere in preventing your BH from triggering when you get on the phone.

It is not the way that I answer the phone, but rather the amount of phone calls. All conversations are held in front of him (even if they're about he and I). I don't run off and hide.

When I was having an A, I would keep the phone on silent and wouldn't answer it in front of him. THAT would certainly be a trigger for him.

I get it.

You are 2 months into NC and you are whining because you don't feel reciprocation from BH?

You're kidding, right?

These phone calls trigger him.

Why can't you identify the person by including their name in the your greeting?

Why must you make your BH ask?

Why do you refuse to change the way you use the phone so your BH triggers less?

Is this you being passive agressive with your phone?

Tweaking your BH's nerves because you know the phone upsets him?

Why can't you reasure your BH?

Why can't you identify the caller without having to be obvious and shove the phone in your BH's face?

Every time you put your phone in your BH's face your actions are saying see I'm not talking to the OM.

Why do you have to get in your BH's face to say I'm not cheating?

Would it not be easier for you to innocently include the callers name in your greeting so you BH can save some face and not have to appear that he is checking up on you.

No, I'm not kidding. We're Christians and our pastor has told he and I not to sin in our anger through this process.

I don't have a problem with this at all and will do this to help him. What do I do when he rolls his eyes and gives me the exacerbated sigh because I'm offering proof of who is on the phone? He does this when I offer receipts, text messages, or any oher proof of where I've been or verification.

We're Christians, too. How is that relevant?

You need to read up on Post Traumatic Stress Disorder. Your husband has suffered a trauma that will take years to recover from.

Learn about PTSD triggers.

During our counseling with Jennifer, my FWS was told to put his taker away and nurse me back to health.

Your job is to learn how to nurse your BH back to health.

Your posts are still all about you and what you want and what you need, Sparkle.

Turn your focus COMPLETELY on helping your husband HEAL. Stop focusing on, "If I do this, he should do that." He may not be capable of "that" yet.


P.S. Since you are a Christian, consider looking for all the many ways you can serve your husband without expecting anything in return.

You tell him that you are going to keep offering the proof until or unless he tells you he doesn't need it any more.

Are the eye rolls because he thinks you're putting on a show for him to show how much he should trust you? Because he's tired of being barraged with your proof? Because he doesn't think it does any good because if the OM wants to reach you he certainly can through other means?

Next time, calmly ask your H about it. Say, "When I got that call just now from Mom and let you know it was her, you rolled your eyes and said, 'Whatever'. Do you not want to know with whom I'm speaking?" See what he says and then do whatever he asks.

I really am trying and am reading in my Life Recovery bible quite a bit today. Right now, I'm reading Jonah and asking for God to remove my character defects. I will serve my Creator first and then my BH.

I feel very lonely at home except with the kids and the pets. Even through this, I don't have the desire to go back to someone else. I just wish that we had never done what we did. There are times where our DS1 will talk about when H's xMOW lived in our home and cooked wonderful breakfasts and took them out horseback riding and I just have to swallow it and smile while I listen. It's a vaild memory for him and I can't tell him never to talk about it.

The eye rolls are coming because he knows that you are doing things with the motive of, "Look at how transparent I'm being, you can trust me now".

Your actions are not actions that demonstrate protection, they are actions that demonstrate that you want something from him.

You WANT/EXPECT him to trust YOU.
You WANT/EXPECT him to forgive YOU.

You still have selfish motives of whats in this for YOU. And he knows it. That's the main reason he rolls the eyeballs.

My bet is he doesn't see genuine changes in you that demonstrates a complete surrender of your old lifestyle. Just like staying at the store longer than you needed. Or, that you didn't think to take one of your kids with you, and he had to watch out for them instead. He shouldn't call what you've been doing as change, you are really just putting a good coat of varnish on for him to see.

Have you picked up the book Surviving An Affair and His Needs, Her Needs yet?

These two books will help you get a handle on why he is rolling his eyeballs at you over and over again. They aren't for leisure reading, you need to study them again and again.

MS, I want to see you succeed, but you MUST do the HARD WORK associated with recovery, and honestly I don't think you're doing that yet.

This is going to require ALL OUT EFFERT for several years and a lifetime committment to maintaining all the changes you make for your marriage to even have a snowballs chance in he!! of recovering.

I am completely sincere and calm when I offer things to him. Not at all sarcastic or obnoxious about it at all. So I'm not sure why he rolls his eyes. It really bothers me when he does though because it's almost as if he wants to know but doesn't want to know. I think he would be more comfortable doing it without me knowing (which is also fine). I'll keep offering no matter what and see if it helps.

As a parent though, him rolling his eyes and giving me attitude in front of the boys when I ask for help isn't being a healthy roll model for them.

I went back and read your first post again.

If I understand correctly, you have had 3 affairs and your husband had an affair that included living with OW in your home with your children.

Is that correct?

Now, you want to recover this marriage (that you pretty much never invested in) and your husband isn't leaving but is not interested in working much of a recovery.

There is a lot of damage here....HUGE. You are a serial cheater and must start putting EXTRAORDINARY precautions in place and learn how to have healthy boundaries that protect your husband and your marriage.

Are you willing to fight for your marriage, even if your husband stays in withdrawal for several months(3 states of intimacy that Dr. Harley talks about, not the withdrawal from an AP)?

Why are you reading Jonah? Talk about depressing. Selfish man that in the end still never submitted to the will of God!

You can better serve your creator by doing what he has called you to do - Be a Godly Wife! Start by studying All the MB books and information that will prepare you to LIVE this calling.

The lifestyle that I was leading while I was having my affair was completely different than what you hear about now. During the affair, I didn't care about anything at home. Laundry would pile up, the house was a mess and the bills were late. I'm back now doing things I did pre-A. The house is spotless, the bills are in order again and I'm having forethought on things going on at home rather than just staying in bed as late as possible so I didn't have to face the day or my H. It's very hard to "see" progress here without actually knowing the individuals personally.

I haven't gotten "Surviving the Affair" but I have "His Needs Her Needs" on order. He will not read books, but I do. I will start this one after I finish "The Explosive Child" by Ross Greene.

He says he's forgiven me (I have to trust that he has) and yes, I want him to trust me but I certainly don't expect him to.

I really didn't want to go to the store yesterday, but we needed things for the week. I'm actually not comfortable going anywhere because when I come home and offer proof, he gets apathetic. It makes me cry inside with frustration but I keep pressing on in the right direction.

As a Christian, there is no other choice.

Remember you can pick up Dr. H's books from the library if money is an issue.

It looks like you enjoy reading. The majority of the men I know do not. Don't take it personal if your H doesn't want to read books. I would suggest you ask him if he would listen to the MB book HNHN on CD. See if that might help him. Dunno!
Personally, I like to listen to books on CD while working or driving to and from work or at night when I can't sleep. I also enjoy reading/studying books, but it's not always as easy to fit that into the schedule.

I can see from your book choice that you have issues going on with your kids, and that you are activly seeking solutions. That's a good thing. I would like to suggest a thought to you about your kids. Please know I say this with tenderness. Your marriage and all the destruction that occured has impacted the kids deeply. They have seen and lived much pain and confusion. Placing your marriage, and its recovery as the number one priority will help to gradually restore some harmony back into your family. I'm talking after a year or two of serious marital work and effort.

MB is the best process of recovering after infidelity that I know of. It will work for you too if you'll do it!

Do you think the phone bothers him so much not just bc its a trigger with the OM but also bc he is a bit jealous of the time you devote to your friends? Do you talk on the phone for long periods of time while your H is home? If so do you think that's fair?

Thank you for your kindness, tst. I'm not an avid reader but have been doing much more lately with the issues that are going on in our family. DS1 has been in counseling for just shy of 4 years and was assesed with having ADD yesterday. His pediatrician put him on Concerta. I started him on it today and am a ball of nerves because I'm not there to see how it affects him. Not a happy mom right now. I know that the problems between Spartan and I have placed our family in crisis mode, but we're slowly getting it together. We've all been through so much ugliness.

We have a beautiful library in town that I'll go to this weekend because yes, money is an issue right now. I just took a hardship withdrawl from my 401K to keep us afloat.

Hi Upside Down:

He and I talked about this last night and it isn't the time so much that I spend on the phone but rather the texts that get to him. I got a couple of calls last night (one from my girlfriend and one from my mum) and I said "Hey ____" when I answered the phone. It made him feel a bit better. When I get texts, he knows who they're from and what they say. I don't delete any of them and I encourage him to read them at any time. Normally, he doesn't but the opportunity is there for him.

Hey, Sparkarooni. Just saying hi. I'm reading, following along, and sending my good ju-ju your way.

It's apparant you have a lot on your plate. You're helping your son, your H, your family... And that's right. Among everything else, please also do not neglect yourself. Eat right. Excercise. Sleep. Allow for quiet time to meditate, reflect, and/or pray. I know it's easier said then done. But please take it to heart. You need to be healthy spiritually, emotionally, and physically so you can help your H heal and so you can better take care of those around you.

You're in my thoughts.

Take care.

women are from venus, men are from mars

"I got a couple of calls last night (one from my girlfriend and one from my mum) and I said "Hey ____" when I answered the phone. It made him feel a bit better."

MS, as a man I knew this would make your BH happy. That's why I kept pushing it with you.

I appreciate that, dear. I need as much good juju as can come our way! I've got other issues going on that are TMI for here but if you want to PM me here, that would be nice.

Sparkle,

I think that you are doing fine. Keep trusting God and be SURE that you are seeking His wisdom.

Wanted to share a verse or two is that's OK.

Isaiah 55
8 "For my thoughts are not your thoughts,
neither are your ways my ways,"
declares the LORD.

9 "As the heavens are higher than the earth,
so are my ways higher than your ways
and my thoughts than your thoughts.

Awww thank you, KM. I needed those scriptures today!

Brought my bible with me today along with my Life Recovery workbook (based on the 12 step program). It's slow here at work right now so I will use that opportunity to pray, write, and read in that order.

Got some Christian rock going on the iPod today to keep me focused in the right direction.

Just want to say I love you my queen.

I love you too, Spartan.

Okay you two. Get a room.

Click "Notify" and ask the mods to send me your email, Sparklet.

Don't be hatin'!

Done deal! Also gave them my digits to give to you.

We had marriage counseling last night and it was rather intense. Both of us have a lot of unlearning of behaviors and responses to do.

My homework is to appeal and respond to the adult in him rather than react as a mother. Particularly when it comes to the kids. I am rabidly protective of them because when I was little, no one ever protected me and so I overcompensate when I see them getting hurt.

She gave us some small behavior goals to work on until next week's appointment when we do some in depth work.

There's certain things that are intrenched in our kneejerk reactions that keep us running in circles.

She asked him why he wouldn't check on me when the opportunity is wide open. He said he didn't know. She told him to take me up on it. I know he's afraid to trust me and I will continue on the MB and Christian pathway to earn his trust and most importantly, learn to trust myself again. I need to quiet my life down and pay attention to God's very quiet voice telling me, "no, don't do that....do this instead". I love God with all my heart and soul and don't want the adversary rejoicing in my failures any longer. The more I love God, the more Spartan will be able to love me.

So tonight I will be going with DS2's preschool teacher as her model for a Mary Kay party (she's picking me up at home tonight).

When Sparty and I were dating, he had this beautiful long hair and we actually did a Mary Kay make over on him. I've still go the before and after pics. He makes for a HORRIBLE looking woman, btw.

I think I'm gonna have to bring that evidence with me tonight!!!

I'm having a tough time within myself today. Fog, withdrawl, triggers.

Sparkle,

Just by your own acknowledgement of your feelings, is a positive step.



Go now and find a quiet place and seek God....if you mean what you have written.....I promise you will find peace.

Kickme:

I am of very few words today. I need prayers and God's strength and guidance.

Thank you for your prayers.

You're in mine as well, Sparkette. I've been thinking about you a lot today.

You can do this.

Peace.

Thank you for the prayers, everyone. I felt lifted yesterday and was able to somewhat function the rest of the night.

Spartan could tell that there was something bothering me and at first he felt certain that I had broken NC. I talked to him this morning and opened up to him about a few things. My girlfriend that I work with is going through all of the raw emotions of being a BS and it hits me hard at times. I see how she feels and it just brings it all back to me knowing that I was responsible for that hurt and devistation in my own marriage. It takes me back to day 1 and I feel like I'm not getting anywhere sometimes.

I had some strong feelings of withdrawl yesterday and called another MB member for support. Out of respect for Spartan, I will not share with him those feelings. I have certain girlfriends I can call for support. I cannot risk breaking NC by keeping it all inside. I kept myself busy with laundry and got out with all of us to do some errands.

Got a new comforter set yesterday to resplace the one that the neighbor across the street had the exact same one of. It's been a trigger for me for the last 2 years but we couldn't afford to replace it until now.

We missed church yesterday.

I am losing my mind with withdrawal today but am still maintaining NC.....THANK GOD.

I can't stand inflicting more pain on Spartan and so I've been swallowing these feelings of withdrawal and not saying anything to him.

I've had my face planted in my bible and have been reading here on MB which is helpful but my feelings are eating me whole! Right now, I want to crawl out of my skin and take off running from myself!

In counseling last night, we did an written exercise where we discovered that Spartan and I trigger our core fears in each other. I know he can sense the way that I'm feeling and it's bothering him. Maybe he feels that I've broken NC but I have an open trail and encourage him to verify my whereabouts.

So he just called me and told me that he's been reading my thread here and knows that something is wrong. He wants to help me with whatever is bothering me but telling him what's on my mind when it comes to the OM would be cruel.

I wish that he would start his own thread rather than lurk here and not say anything. I set up a login and password for him so that he could get help too!!

Tough, isn't it. You want to be fully and completely honest. Yet to really work out some of this stuff about yourself, it means being honest about some really ugly parts -- stuff that is hard to look at let alone own. You're in an anonymous forum where you feel you can be open and share so you can get the 2x4s or the hugs or whatever you need to get through it -- to address it, process it, learn from it, and move forward. Whether it is a trigger, an emotion, a feeling, or an old memory that won't go away. I'm sorry that now you feel you can't be fully open with us in order to protect your H from what he might read, because from my experience, sharing the good and the bad is necessary to get the full benefits of the help available here. For WSs and for BSs.

Let Spartan know that you'd prefer he not read your thread right now because it may hurt him. However, if he chooses to (again, radical honesty), then he needs to understand you're not sharing here to hurt him or spite him, but because it's what you need to do to help yourself recover AND what you need to do to help him recover.

I have to step away but will check later to see if I can be of any help. I wish some of the BSs would check in too, and offer advice about what to do.

MS,

I think you should tell him what is up, specifically what you are missing. I bet his imagination is way way worse that what you are actually feeling. I know you are trying to be kind but if he doesn't know what you are upset about then he can just make a giant list of everything he can think of and pick the one that is the most upsetting to him.

Sparkle,
You know that I'm a BS, I think you've read my thread and followed my story.

I have followed yours all this time and I want to tell you that I admire your courage and strength. I have searched for words to say to you tonight and have struggled with the right thoughts.

However, you do not need me to remind you that having an A was your choice. What makes me admire you is unlike my W, you also found the courage to admit what you did and LOVE Spartan the way God teaches you to.

Just the simple fact that you are here and sharing is testiment to your true character. You are a strong woman. You are going to have days like today for some time to come and I know you know that.

Remember, if you have followed my story and others just like me, you know that I NEVER HAD THE OPPORTUNITY TO ATTEMPT RECOVERY...BECAUSE SHE AND OTHERS LIKE THEM ARE NOT STRONG LIKE YOU ARE!!! They still are engaged in affairs. They are choosing their A partners over their family. They are choosing their own happiness over the happiness of their children. Remember those awful feelings?

Sparkle, please remember the hurt.....be honest with Spartan and SHARE your feeling with him. I do not know him, but if he thinks something is wrong, its because something is wrong. It very well may upset him.....but the NOT KNOWING, all the while caring, is far worse.

Share with him, love him, be honest with him, and most importantly pray that God will give you the strength to endure.

I am praying for you both. I do not post much because I do not feel that I can give much advice, but I will tell you that I too can feel your spirital prescense here and I know that God has His hand on your life.

STRENGTH !!!

Having an affair and all the secrets that go along with it is what's actually cruel.

Openness & Honesty is one of the BASIC principles you would do well to study up on and put into practice.


MS, have you begun reading SAA, HNHN, or FILSIL yet?

Been trying to think of things you could do to get you through the tough times, the trigger times, the shakey times when your H isn't able to help you.

Breathe.

Distract.

Breathe again.

Distract.

Repeat.

As for how to distract yourself? Distractions can range from a making a physical change in location to something very subtle that simply occupies your mind in a different way. Since you've been reading here, you've probably heard about picturing a stop sign or snapping a rubberband that's on your wrist. Other ideas off the top of my head to help distract you:

Play with your kids. (This can be so many things.)
Make a grocery list.
Read a magazine.
Sing a silly song aloud like "Sing A Song" or "Rubber Ducky" from Sesame Street.
Call a friend.
Do a crossword puzzle.
Play solitare -- computer or real cards.
Bake something.
Post on MB.
Clean the bathroom.
Play an instrument.
Exercise.
Clean out the kitchen junk drawer.
Fix a household item that's been broken for awhile.
Do birthday cards for upcoming birthdays.
Sketch out your dream home.
Create a slideshow of pictures of your family to loop on your desktop.
Attempt a brand new recipe.
Rearrange the livingroom furniture.
Go hit golfballs.
Hand write a letter to someone who may feel forgotten -- an old girlfriend, a long-lost aunt, a mentor.
Pray.
Put together a care package for a U.S. soldier serving overseas.
Sew something.
Think up random phrases and see what they look like in other laguages through Google's translate tool.
Sort through your family's clothes -- too small, too old, too "what was I thinking?"

Something I've been doing more lately when I find myself wanting to dwell upon what I did... I found a piece of artwork that for whatever reason grabbed my attention. I impromptly bought it and put it in my office. It has many elements to it that are interesting to me and soothing at the same time. When I find myself going to that useless place, I consciously look at the artwork and study it. I immerse myself in its flow, texture, significance, color, and calm.

Is there a stil-life, abstract, or interesting picture, postcard, textile, statue, or anything around that you could quickly access that you could study during a trigger to get your mind off of things?

Peace, Spark-o-lotta.

KickMe: The kindness in your words brought tears to my eyes.

I have read through your thread as well and also admire your strength and fortitude to stand strong through God during the most excruciating time in your life. You, your children and your WW are in my daily prayers.

The consequences of my actions as a saved Christian are unbelievably painful. Sure, I was able to hide things from Spartan for a while but not a single movement of mine was missed by God. I remember praying aloud in the garage and telling Him, "I am so busted for this" and shaking my head in disgust at myself. 1 Corinthians 6 brought me to my KNEES!!!

I remember those feelings of forfeiting my family's happiness for my own very well. It was actually the emptiest time in my life. I laughed and carried on as though things were fine but on the inside you could hear echos from the hollow shell I had become.

Spartan and I talked very briefly last night and this morning (he worked late last night) and we talked about my thread and also about how I was feeling. He came home with a dozen red roses knowing that yesterday was particularly trigger filled for me. I don't think he noticed, but there was a sticker on the wrapper around the roses that said "freedom". I cut it out and put it on the highest part of our refridgerator. I think it goes without saying that I am beyond blessed to have this man in my life.

I have so much to praise God for this morning.

6yrs & tst:

I told Spartan specifics on the things that I was feeling, even though they were hard to say but he handled it well.

We've been texting this morning and I told him that there is no comparison. I had 2 choices: Divorce to be with OM or divorce and be single. In my opinion, this wasn't a choice that was given to me but rather a blessing and that is that Spartan wanted to work things out with me.

I have not begun to read His Needs, Her Needs yet (almost finished with "The Explosive Child") but that is next on my list. I will also pick up "Surviving the Affair".

I was VERY hesitant to tell Spartan about the things that I "missed" about the OM because I didn't want him to compare himself to him. No worries there! He texted me and said, "There's no comparison there. I know what it's like to watch you give birth to our children and sleep next to you. Plus, I know you drool on your pillow at night."

L4.......words are not enough to express my gratitude for you being here with me.

Yes you do Sparkie.

Thanks for your kind words also.

Remember this silly quote of mine....

"I understand why we do the things we do....I just don't understand why we do the things we do."

As long as you keep God first in your and Spartan's life and remember the low places, you will most likely have a beautifully recovered marriage. It takes courage and lots of love....you seem to have both!!

Not just this morning. Every morning.

Funny you should say that! I'm a nationally recognized cross stitcher but haven't picked up a project in years. I showed a couple of patterns to Spartan and he really liked them. I think I've got a new project to start!

Either that or I'll paint our bedroom. It's dark.....it's dismal......it's the same color as OM's (by coincidence). Time to change.

I thought of this early this morning -- something that helped me choose the right path early on when I felt lost.

During my PA last spring I felt FOM was the only one who got me. When I was hurting, confused, lonely, mad, or whatever, the only person with whom I believed I could feel safe was FOM. What I came to understand is that I had to forget about the past conflicts with my H and let my H make me feel safe here IRL. So my mantra became and continues to remain, "H is my safe place."

Your H needs to be that place you can go to at any time for anything. And you need for him to be that for you too. From a simple smile to a warm shoulder to listening ears to supportive strong arms wrapped around you... It can be tough this early as you're both working on trust issues, but you need to commit to going all-in and try, Sparky.

Make your H your safe place.

My will has truly been put to the test today.......and I passed. As I was leaving for lunch today, the OM and I saw each other on the road. We made eye contact, he waved and I continued driving.

It immediately caused me to have a panic attack and so I called a girlfriend for support. She talked me down and told me to call Spartan to tell him what happened. I did exactly that after I hung up with her. He was proud of me and was grateful for my honesty.

I am back to work now and am so distracted by that whole ordeal that I cannot concentrate very well. I am going to take a Xanax.

It messed me up so badly that I could not find what I was looking for at the mall. I'm crazed with shoes and even that I couldn't find joy in looking at. Bought NOTHING which is highly unusual for me.

The Xanax isn't kicking in fast enough. I'm ready to fall apart!!! Breathe, breathe, breathe. STAY WITH ME, GOD!!!

Your H is your safe place. Your H is your safe place. Call him. Text him. Send an email. Take out a picture of him and stare at it.

Or pull out the random list of distractions and grab something from there. Ask a co-worker if she wants to go grab a coffee and talk about your kids or her landscaping project. Pull out that horrific monthly spreadsheet you hate doing the end of every month and get started on it now. Distract. Think of your many blessings including your H and your family that you're fighting to keep intact.

I am SOOOOO proud of you for calling Spartan!

You can do this, Sparkster. Recovering a badly damaged M is hard. You've chosen the most difficult path and I have faith you have the strength to follow it, as you've proven today.

I'm picturing the beautiful red roses that are waiting for me at home.

So many things we talk about here on MB are wrapped up in this simple paragraph it is hard to know where to begin...

Just seeing OM tested your resolve. I would bet it also tested your decision to give him up. The feelings came flooding back, the thoughts of things shared, all welled up inside...Am I close?

Then you made a choice to not follow your feelings but to find some other way to process your feelings instead of acting on them. You stumbled but caught yourself before you fell back into those old ways of thinking.

You then made another choice to follow advice given to you by a trusted friend. And that led you to test Spartan to see if what HE says would be real. You called him and reported what you knew would be upsetting to him, not knowing how he would react.

He was grateful for your honesty and so you BOTH passed the test. You passed by being honest and in so doing helped provide Spartan with the proof that his trust is not misplaced.

And he passed because he was supportive and thanked you when you were afraid of what he might do in response to this. Several steps forward all at once without a slide backward. It gets you closer to recovery than any amount of talking or solving problems.

It brought you closer together than you were.

A couple more years of this and you might just recover and be better than new...

Well done to both of you...

Mark

You know it really does take a special person to put up with you pineing for OM. I would have loved a shot at recovery at the time but looking back now I realise I could never have put up with this!

You should count yourself very very lucky

I am far from lucky. I am truly blessed.

Spartan did a lot of reading on the MB site last night after I went to bed. He e-mailed me the link on how affairs should end and presented the question to me, "what did you get from the OM that I wasn't giving to you?"

I honestly answered him as difficult as it was. We both agreed on one thing and that was that sex between us had become dull and boring. That is something that we have needed to work on for a very long time. We bought toys together but I got rid of them because it made him feel indequate and put out. He wants me to tell him the things that I like and want which I am willing to do. That's going to be a hard task because I don't want sex between us to be mechanical or scripted.

This weekend, I think it would be good for us to fill out all of the questionnaires together and read them. We can work on one conflict at a time until we get the whole thing right.

I have passed a crucial milestone and didn't even realize it until I looked at the calendar.

I had a pattern of mentally (and sometimes physically) checking out of our marriage every 3 months or so. It has now been 4 months since the last time that I left home.

The kids are so much more stable and less "testing" than they were and I can see the joy returning to their faces because they can feel that I am not going anywhere again. In fact, our oldest son's next counseling appointment isn't for 3wks! He has been going once a week for the last 4 years.

Tonight is date night for Spartan and I and I think we're gonna hit Taco Bell and go see Watchman.

We're also going to pick out colors for our bedroom......I'm thinking of a warm cinammon color.

Big weekend for Spartan and I.

I have a very trusted FWS that throught the help of MB has become my mentor and confidant. My husband and I both have her number and have been in pretty lengthy contact with her.

Last night, the three of us talked and she had asked Spartan to start setting up boundaries for me that would make him feel more comfortable. Oddly enough, I was in the process of working one thing on my own but hadn't yet brought it up to him.

There are two really big issues that we will set in place. I will cancel my gym membership and we will find a used Bowflex and treadmill to put in the garage for a home gym. We looked on Craigslist together and found out about how much we will need to save.

Secondly, I will show Spartan where the OM lives. Not knowing has been bothering him. I also explained to him what he looks like (I do not have any pictures and he doesn't do any social networking sites). He wants to be able to recognize him should he show up at our door or we run into him by chance.

I offered up several things last night while we were out and it seems to have put him more at ease.

We got to talking about SF and I had asked him what his MOW gave him that I didn't. Not 30 minutes later, he received a text from her saying, "just wondering how you're doing. I truly wish you and your family well". Both of our mouths hit the floor! I has been MONTHS since we heard from her. She just got married in Sept.

I'm sure everyone's experience is different, but I have had much better results doing my weightlifting at home than in a gym. At least at the gym I joined, the weightlifting seemed to be very "dumbed down" to appeal to a larger audience. [with a personal trainer, that is]

Anyhoo, my home gym contains an elliptical from Sams [that I LOVE, LOVE, LOVE] and about 200 weight lifting DVDS, barbells, dumbbells, steps and all else. I use Cathe Friedrich and The Firm specifically, and have stayed in good shape for years doing rotations using those workouts.

I did use a SMITH MACHINE for my squats and lunges for several years but my chiro has banned squats so I sold the machine.

Have you ever tried Cathe Friedrich? What kind of routine are you doing?

I'm rather looking forward to training at home, actually. I do bodybuilding (have competed and got into magazines and am on some websites). You would never know it when I'm off season though!

I like LL Cool J's Platinum Workout book at lot. Yes, the scenery is quite nice, but he and his trainer REALLY have a great thing going on. I also work off of "the lifter's bible" from Arnie.

I took Spartan to the gym one night and trained legs with him. He was so sore that he couldn't walk for DAYS!!

When will this withdrawal stop?! I'm really burned out on feeling like I'm living in a void.

Today, we went to church and that helped. Our church is so small that we all know each other's struggles pretty intimately. Our pastor, my sponsor and some other close friends of ours there came up and asked us how we've been. I told them that I saw the xOM on the road on Thurs. and how much of a setback it was for Spartan and I. I feel like we're starting all over again....very frustrating. I'll be going back to recovery group on Mon. nights after work and will be leaning on my sponsor more. Since we cannot afford an MB weekend or even a phone consult, we're doing the next best thing and going to a Family Life weekend this April. We can only pay half and our church will sponsor the rest.

One thing that our pastor said to us today that really got me to pay attention was this. He said, "I'll give ANYONE here today a check for $100 bucks if they can tell me that what the've given up was better than Jesus. What did you give up, drinking? Sleeping around? Ooooo, that's better than Jesus. No takers??!" He's absolutely right.

We're at my parents' house tonight for dinner and some Margaritas. Haven't done that in a very long time so this is nice.

Still haven't had time to read SAA or HNHN or FILSIL?

MS, nobody would have taken my words seriously if I had not invested some effort in learning the MB program by at least reading the books written by Dr. Harley. Especially my spouse!

Won't cost a dime if checked out from the library.

Why are you finding time for so many other things, but not time to read the books that may prevent you from repeating your adultery?

My obvious point would be ...... how many hours in the past 4 weeks have you given to working out, searching for workout equiptment, researching workout techniques, reading or writing on web sights that are devoted to the subject?

- VS -

How many hours have you spent reading MB books that could lead to a marriage worth having in the future?

I believe the ratio of hrs is likely 100:1

Your H should just

I've actually been reading on the MB site more than looking at training routines. Been talking to my husband about things rather than hiding them and journaling. I trained twice this week rather than the usual 5x.

We also have children that require a fair amount of our attention.

I understand your point, tst but your vision or my division of time isn't accurate. Was that a DJ perhaps?

He doesn't want to throw up. He wants to help. I asked.

I'm also asking him to start his own thread but he does not want to. I'm here, so you'll have to read from me instead.

What tst says is right on the money. You dispute it because you choose to keep the blinders on. It's still about you.

It's easy to come to this forum, almost fun isn't it?

Blah, blah, blah,........ Your acknowledging exactly what I said. Pleanty of time for other activities, NO time to read and implement the MB program.



Found LOTS of time to be with OM even with those same children around! That one doesn't work...... just another excuse!



If you'll read SAA, HNHN, FILSIL then you'll learn that DJ's are Love Busters that cause you to loose LOVE FOR YOUR SPOUSE.
I'm not your spouse!
Yes, I meant to :twobyfour: you!!!!!


Ya, I'm sure his is excited everytime he hears you are still going through withdrawals for OM.

I hope you pull through the fog at some point and get busy with some actual, productive, actions instead of excuses.

If your husband hits the anger stage of grief and you are still making excuses and haven't found time to do anything other than what YOU want to do...... You may need to find another place to live at that point, because the thudding sound you will hear is going to be your rear hitting the edge of the curb.

Sparky...

I KNOW you don't want to hear it, but there is much TRUTH to what tst said to you...It stung you and it's obvious because your answer was very defensive...

It's HARD to take a very honest inventory of yourself...I understand...Hey, I was a long time attention/approval junkie myself, so I do get it...

What I see is that it was VERY important to you for others to know that you are a body builder and have been in magazines and on websites...Is it fair to say that that stuff is important to you because how others view you is of great importance to you? That the opinions of others is how you've determined how to feel about you over the years? That your looks are what tell you that you are worthy? I ask, because that was true for me for many, many years...I think it's a wayward trait actually... Makes it very easy to succumb to FALSE admiration...you know, like the kind you get in an affair...

What do you think?

Mrs. W

I guess I'm not seeing what some of you are.

Sprakster and Spartan are spending far more time together now it seems. She's not working out even half as much as she used to -- and working out is a huge part of her life from what I've read. She's instead spending more time with her husband. She is working with her H to find an alterntive to the gym. They are looking for alternatives together. They have been to the movies, a restaurant, bought new bedding, go to church, are filling on the ENs questionairres, Sparky called Spartan when she was going through a really rough moment instead of falling back toward the OM...

If she hasn't read the books does that mean she is being selfish and is not investing in the marriage?

This is what I've seen, and perhaps I'm misunderstanding her efforts. She's letting her H know where she is at all times. She's providing transparency. Sparkle is reading the Bible. She's working full-time. She's taking care of her two boys, one of who has special needs and who requires extra attention, she's spending more time than ever with her H, she did NC, she's withdrawing from OM (as we all know this happens) she's reading MB, she's posting on MB, and she's trying.

Sparkster, how are you spending your free time?

And what did the ENQ reveal?

PLEASE!

L4, why don't you get out the powder and pamper her bottom too.

With all due respect L4, you and Sparky are pretty close friends from what I understand...It may be tough for you to be objective because of that...dunno...

Also, you aren't all that far into the recovery process yourself...You guys should be mindful that you are both serial cheaters and be VERY careful not to enable each other...

JMHO...

Mrs. W

Well I'm not sure about the ENQ but looking4 this post reveals a LOT of fog on your part.

Around these parts we call this ENABLING. You are not far enough along in this process to KNOW and your discernment is a little OFF.

I suggest you shut your pie hole and listen and learn from MrsW and TST. You and Sparky would do very well to listen to those former waywards who have totally defogged and have recovered their marriages.

I'm SO thrilled that sparky now only has 40% the chnce she did of "bumping" into OM. :RollieEyes:

I was trying to encourage her to keep doing the good things that she is doing.

She has a long way to go. Among the 2x4s she's getting (and deserves), recognizing positives can't hurt, can it? I'm not encouraging bad behavior am I? I didn't say don't read the books did I?

I also did not assume that she's spending all of her free time researching and pining for body building. I don't know how she spends her free time which is why I asked her before jumping to that conclusion.

I agree she is in a fog. She herself has admitted it. It also sounds like she's fragile so while she needs to look directly in the reality mirror and see the bad and the ugly, if there's a glimmer of good, can we see that too, to encourage her to keep looking into that reality mirror?

Just wanted to share some positives I was seeing, hoping they woulnd't be overlooked.

Remember, along with her affair, perhaps they never dealt with his affair where their neighbor lived in her marital bed for 2 months and established a relationship with her kids. The FOM lived across the street, is married now, but is still trying to contact Spartan. They have a special needs boy whom they are also trying to help.

They have plenty of stress in addition to her reprehensible affair.

So yes, I wanted to try to give a bit of encouragement. I by no means think she's done with trying to help her H heal nor is she doing all she can to recover. I was tyring to support what she has done in light of everything else.

As I said, she and her H have a long way to go.

So much for my opinion. I'll step aside and let y'all work on her.

I completely agree with BK.

These two WWs would do well to look to those who have RECOVERED for HOW to make this work instead of making excuses as to WHY they can't do what is suggested.

MS, tst was a black belt and an instructor at our dojo. He COMPLETELY LEFT it all the day he came home and was willing to give it up forever. Now that we've past the year mark in true recovery, he and I have POJA'd his return to that hobby--where, when, and how much.

tst left it all because he understood that his ENTIRE focus needed to be on our marriage during that first year or more of recovery. Every moment he was at the dojo he saw as missing out on being with me.

He started reading the books immediately and completed ALL those he listed to you in the first WEEKS of recovery. Then he went back through them again and again. He was able to do that because he was not sidetracking himself with his all-important hobbies.

MS, we have 5 kids, so we know what it takes to care for children.

Your excuses don't hold much weight with him or most people here, except maybe other new WWs. That should tell you something.

All I've seen on this thread is someone who indulges in all the drama of missing OM, and isn't really all that interested in learning the program that will help withdrawal end.

MS, why don't you take an honest look at the character of OM. Then ask yourself why you are still missing him? My bet is it's because you still allow yourself to fantasize about OM in some way.

You are right on the money with everything that you've said. Absolutely true.....

Yes, it can, because MS uses the few positive steps she takes as a "see all that I'm doing" justification instead of looking at all that she COULD AND SHOULD be doing. And your posts encourage and support that kind of thinking.

It doesn't help her recover her marriage in any way.





Well, actually, yes.

You both would do your marriages good to focus on your own threads and your own marriages and invest all you have (time and energy) into them.





But she isn't investing the time doing the things she needs to do to get unfoggy. She has the power to speed this process up. She also has the power to drag it out because pining over OM feels so good, in a very sick kind of way.




See, here's where your own fogginess gets in the way.

First, she isn't "fragile". That statement is LAUGHABLE.

The only reality mirror MS needs to look into is the one that shows her the truth about just how ugly and evil adultery is, the one that shows the demage affairs cause to the family unit that God built. All this "but I'm a good person" stuff just gives a wayward justification to EXPECT something that, right now, she doesn't even deserve.

All that feel good stuff can come later...when there's something to feel good about.




There's been so much positive stroking on this thread I everytime I read it, and I'm sure I'm not the only one feeling that way.

I've avoided posting because I figure the FWS's like tst and Mrs. W might have an impact. But enough is enough. Coddling her isn't going to help her recover her marriage.






See how enabling you are being. You are giving her excuse after excuse to continue feeling entitled and justified.




Don't we all.




You spent a lot of time in this post justifying yourself, and I see much defensiveness on your part as well.

Okay...here a few things that helped me a TON in that area...

1. Stop focusing on yourself by focusing on OTHERS...Namely your spouse...DO what tst has suggested and go to the library, get those books and READ them...

2. Understand that when you place your self-worth into the hands of others you give away all of your own power...Because just as their compliments send you soaring into orbit, any criticism, even perceived criticism also sends you into a downward spiral...those criticisms stay with you longer than the compliments too, don't they? Remind yourself that the "lady in the mirror's" opinion counts the most [thanks to Mel who drilled this into me]...obviously your spouse's opinion counts as well...

3. You have ALWAYS had approval where it counts the MOST...God says that you are "wonderfully and fearfully made"...and made IN HIS IMAGE...Trust God...He NEVER lies...Trust Him like you would a CHAIR...Do you ever doubt that a chair will hold you before you sit down? That's trust...that's faith...When HE says you are worthy and He DID say that and even sent His son to prove it, that means YOU ARE...You always were enough...You just didn't know it...Decide today that you will TRUST God about that...

Hope something I've said helps...

Mrs. W

P.S. Great posts SMB!

Sparky...

Couple things:

Quit the gym TODAY...NOT later...TODAY...There needs to be NO CHANCE of running into OM...NONE...And this is an ACTION that demonstrates to Sparty just how serious you are...

And stop the fantasizing...I know that that is where your head goes when you are having a "bad day"...you go to that place in your head recalling what you still think are "good memories" with OM...NO...EVERYTHING with OM was SICK, TWISTED and WRONG...and AGAINST God's plan...evil, Sparky, that's what it was, pure evil...

Find other ways to "self-soothe"...PRAYER is where you go instead...THAT is what will fill the God sized hole in your heart...He is the only thing that will fill it...Keep your focus there...

Mrs. W

I will cancel my membership today.

Thank you so much for being here for me today. I have felt your words in my heart and I know how right you are.

I do not have my bible here with me today, but I know that there is a scripture where it talks about people pleasing as a sin. I will look that up online after my meeting.

On the way home, I am going to pick up His Needs, Her Needs. I'm not a fast reader, but I will read it front to back. The other books that tst listed will follow. Another book that one of my coworkers suggested is The Power of a Praying Wife. I have a lot to immerse myself in.

{{{{MS}}}}

I know it's not easy to hear what you need to hear sometimes.

I read Power of a Praying Wife and it is a great book. Just don't let it REPLACE your MB book reading.

Sparky,

When I'm not able to use my bible and have need or time to read, I use Bibe Gateway

(((((Sparky)))))

Good girl! And you're very welcome!

Mrs. W

All is not well on the homefront. Lots of AO'S, DJ's and blameshifting on both of our parts.

Spartan insisted last night that "if I hadn't had my affairs, he never would have had his." He has held me to that for over 2 years and it's just cruel. He know that I have fully taken responsibility for my affairs that the damage that they've done.

No, this is not a DJ against him. This is fact. Everything that goes wrong is blamed on either me or the kids. If he's late to work, it's because I didn't get up on time, then it's the kids that made him late. Meanwhile, he's laying on the bed watching TV until the very last minute to leave the house leaving no room for error. Today, he curbed a wheel on the van which dumped his coffee all over him and the steering wheel and it was because "some broad didn't park right".

There are times in my head where I wonder who he would blame for the things that go wrong in his day of the kids ad I weren't around. I know that's an awful way to think, but right now I'm just upset. Even the kids keep their distance from him. They'd rather spend their time with me and that makes him mad. I don't ever say anything negative about their dad to them. They just don't want to be around him and that hurts him I'm sure.

Before we left for work, we got into it about sharing housework and who does what. That escalated into an arguement of "well, I do this and you don't". I asked him if what he wanted was a chores chart with points assigned to them so that we could keep an even score. That's definitely not what I want, but he was angrily spewing the things that he does versus what I do.

He's had a series of things go wrong today. Lost his wedding ring, ruined a wheel on the van, smashed his finger at work and now he is going home without pay for the rest of the day.

I have a business lunch and am taking a female coworker with me that he knows.

Not a good day for either one of us.

I got HNHN's last week and we're taking turns reading chapters. Not very far in it yet but we're working on it.

MS:

Undersatnd one thing. Your here. Spartan has to post his own thread, for me to talk to him. But you get me right now.

He had an A. That was his choice, just like it was YOU Choice.

When Spartan said this: "if I hadn't had my affairs, he never would have had his."

I'm sure you said something along the lines of: Do NOT! That's NOT FAIR! WWWWAAAAAHHHH....!!!!

Your right, your not responsible for HIS ACTIONS. He violated his vows, just like I did, and just like YOU did. What are YOU doing to make sure that that never happens again. What are you doing to de-escalate the drama?

Your to blame for everything? Then just agree. "Yes, I spilled your coffee" and "I bumped the curb" "I didn't get up on time" and answer calmy and without inflection. Spartan KNOWS where the mirror is. Give it back to him.

And please, don't argue about the housework anymore. Until you have read HNHN, or LoveBusters. There is a worksheet in there to help YOU TWO decide who does WHAT around the house. YOU EXPECT him to DO IT. Because you don't want to, and it's important TO YOU that it gets done. SO YOU WANT HIM TO DO IT. Because your doing ???what??? Running a household in tough. Especially with two people working. Heck, we have a maid that come in every two weeks. It makes our life possible. The worksheet details all the household tasks and how important they are to you and to him. How important that they are to get DONE, and how important they are to you or him that the other person does it. Believe ME, if its more important that the kitchen floor is spotless to YOU then to him, then you better resign yourself to the fact that YOU have to do it.

Those worksheets went A LONG way to reducing that stress in our household.

This is a marathon, not a sprint. If the anger is high, its time for disangagement. Your disengagement. Your trying to build a better marriage, right? Start there.

LG

PS: Tell your friend looking4 to drop a line. Not if hubby disagrees with it however.


LG

Good points for me to remember, LG.

This marathon is the toughest one I've ever run. There are times where I feel like I'm looking back over my shoulder and seeing my husband just standing there. I'm not sure that he will start his own thread or not. He just isn't that enthused about it but that's ok. As long as he continues to read with me and go to MC.

I've been putting "check points" in place for him so that he knows where I am and who I am with at all times. Same thing with the cell phone. I don't constantly offer it to him, but rather leave the option there for him if he wants to check. I still save receipts and always have a girlfriend with me when I go on business lunches. Otherwise, he or the kids are with me or I stay in contact with him. Thurs. & Fri. I took off last week to paint the kitchen and was home alone all day. He doesn't work far and could drop in on me at any time. He has mixed feelings about me being that transparent with him. It makes him angry with me when I offer when I sense that he's feeling insecure.

I printed out all of the questionnaires for us to fill out (our printer at home is broken so I did it at work). I see that they're the same as at the end of the book. Not sure if we should fill them out now or wait until after we've finished reading.

I have only heard from L4 a couple of times and it seems like she is "ok". As her friend and out of respect for her and her marriage, I have stepped back and only check in to make sure she's doing well. I am far too early in this process and don't want to complicate things on her end with my drama. She's been a wealth of help to Spartan and I, but it is more important for me to see that her marriage succeeds. She's a pretty awesome person.

It's official......he lost the wedding ring I bought him last year. He had been asking for a new one because the other one was too small and he didn't really like it. I got him one that was made out of tungsten steel with a carbon fiber inlay. I picked these materials because he uses them in his line of work (he's an auto tech) and I knew he would love it.

He did and now it's gone.

Sparky...

You have mail...At both addresses...wasn't sure which one to use at this time, so I just sent the same message to both accounts...

Mrs. W

Just saying hi. I'm sorry for the loss of the ring and your kitty. Remember to lean on Spartan, especially when things are hard.

Thank you for your kindness and respect. You're a pretty awesome person too.

You and your family continue to be in my prayers. Take care.

We found Spartan's ring under the computer tower so that was a relief. Forgot to post that on Monday!

Things are up and down at home. The loss of Cairo really hit us hard. We pull close and then I pull away. Grief does funny things to you.

I got tickets for all of us to see Monsters vs. Aliens tonight. We're actually looking forward to it. It will get us away from the house for a bit and focused on a little necessary nonsense.

The book has been a slow read for us but now that the weekend is here, I think we'll get more done. Supposed to be gorgeous out so it might be beach time with the book and Boogie boards.

For all the prayer warriors here, we're requesting them to help us in our fight to become a solid "one". It's gonna be a steep haul to reach the summit, but I think we're both becoming emotionally "athletic".

This has been a pretty ugly week for The Double S team between the loss of our cat and then a major deal last night.

To make a long story short, I had a coworker/girlfriend over last night for dinner and we were all just trying to relax, having Margaritas and keeping things light. My girlfriend drank waaaaay too much and started saying some very sideways remarks. One of which was, "You know, your a$$ is getting pretty big, girlfriend. You need to watch it." She said this in all seriousness as I was washing dishes with Spartan standing right there. Neither one of us could believe she said it!

This hit an EXTREMELY raw nerve with me because I HAVE gained weight and have canceled my gym membership because Spartan wasn't comfortable with me in that environment. We're waiting for our tax return to get some used equipment to put in the garage, however in the meantime I have been eating to fill my depression. Back to what I was saying. I felt so much hurt and anger welling up inside of me and I lashed out at Spartan saying something extremely hurtful to him. That was a TOTAL LB and I regretted saying it as soon as it left my lips. I did apologize to him that evening and he accepted my apology. All of that anger had nothing to do with him and everything to do with me because I am having huge self esteem issues. It was completely cruel and inappropriate for me to have taken it out on him or for even blaming him for not being able to go to the gym any longer. It's my fault for all of that. I am ABUSING myself and letting MYSELF go dysfunctionally justifying it by saying, "he didn't like the shape I was in when I lifted because it made him feel insecure, so now I'll just let myself go so no one looks at me."

This morning, we filled out our EN's questionnaire's and naturally found that we're on two completely opposite sides of the spectrum.

His top 5 EN's are:

1. Affection
2. Sexual Fulfillment
3. Conversation
4. Honesty & Openness
5. An Attractive Spouse

My top 5 EN's are:

1. Family Commitment
2. Conversation
3. Recreational Companionship
4. Affection
5. Sexual Fulfillment

Now that those are out on the table, we have something to work with. Wherease before, we would just issue blanket statements about what we needed.

He and I talked for quite a bit today about this list and I asked him if he was willing as my husband to put my needs before his. He said that he thought he already had. And then I asked him more specifically if he were willing to put my top 5 EN's ahead of his and I would do the same. So affection isn't my thing, but if it's profoundly important to him, I need to do everything I can to meet that need. If I'm not doing it the way that he likes it, I will ask him what he likes.

This change is going to be both foreign to us but paramount to the success of our marriage. We haven't truly loved each other for the majority of our marriage. Since we are new Christians, the adversary has been throwing as much as he can in our way to stop us, and regretfully we've fallen into many of those traps.

The best part of our marriage was the first two years.....the rest has been completely unfulfilling for both of us.

We need as much help and advice as we can get. We don't have the money to go to an MB weekend so we're reading the books, going to MC and I come here to post. He doesn't post but does read.

I have stopped taking my Lexapro on my own accord in hopes that my sex drive improves. I know my OCD behaviors and intrusive images will return but I want to do all I can to fulfill his top needs.

I could have done without this week in my life.

My girlfriend did call me today to apologize and I accepted her apology. I just don't think I'll be spending much time outside of work with her though.

I'm glad you are working with the EN questionaire.

I would challenge you and your H to read HNHN all the way through to get a better understanding of each EN.

I would expect Admiration to be either your #1 or #2 top EN. Especially when you evaluate how hurt you were over last nights comments from your girlfriend. Also taking into account conversations you've had with Mrs. W. on this thread.

tst....I was hoping you would reply. I think that you and SMB might be a wealth of help for us since our situations are similar.

We're still in the process of reading the book.

I understand why I didn't place admiration on my list of top EN's. The reason why is that when he does provide admiration, it isn't done the way that I like it and so I gave up trying to show him. Just as I kept showing him affection by offering him a wonderfully clean house to come home to. That is something that I would have appreciated....not him.

We've never truly known what each other's EN's are. Both of us have independent behaviors that enabled us to grow apart and lose the marriage.

I wonder if we really even know who each other is? We know certain intimacies about each other but not enough to have that sacred connection that you see in some couples. I've always admired them....longed for what they had but had absolutely no clue on how to get it.

MB is not about him putting your needs ahead of his or vice versa. That's called sacrificing, and Dr. Harley says neither spouse should sacrifice or consider the other's needs more important than their own. The goal is to meet each other's needs and to dedicate at least 15 scheduled hours per week to do so.

Whether he met this need as you like or not is irrelevant. You are suppose to fill out the EN questionnaire based soley on what your TOP EMOTIONAL NEEDS are. After this is done, you two will learn HOW to meet your spouse's top ENs in the way that HE or SHE likes them met. But if you are not open and honest now about what your top ENs are, you cannot expect your H to ever be able to meet your top needs and you are right back to where you were when your affair began.

Maybe I told you this already, but you should read the book first then go back and answer the questions.

That's where the learning curve comes in. We've either gone all or nothing. During the pre-A days, I did everything for him, the kids and the house and absolutely nothing for myself. I was thin, gaunt and complacent to be there because at that time, I was taught that that's what marriage was about; serving your man. After 13 years of it, I went the other direction and COMPLETELY did everything for my own enjoyment and fulfillment no matter what the cost. I justified it by telling myself that I had given him the best years of my life and that now it was MY turn. Very very grave, selfish, cruel mistake. Not just to him, but also to the kids. I withheld SF as a punishment because after spending all day working, cooking, cleaning, caring for the kids, cleaning house on my days off etc. I didn't want to give any more of myself. Domestic support has never been one of my husband's priorities. I missed that one when I wrote the list this morning. If I could amend my needs, DS would be #2 and SF would drop off of the list.

That is so true.

I can feel myself headed down to a very deep depression. Very difficult to get out of bed in the mornings, I don't want to eat any more and I feel like crying for no apparent reason. I should probably call my Dr. but at the same time, I'm tired of taking drugs to make myself happy. That's partially why I stopped taking the Lexapro.

Read through a few chapters of HNHN's and also brought it to work with me. I'm going to read more at lunch if I don't go to the animal shelter. I don't know what I'm doing actually.

Don't have much, but have a hug for you:

(((Sparkle)))

Keep an eye out on closeouts for your gym equipment.

I got a KILLER tread machine that was the floor model and paid less than half for it.

Working out will help with the depression - and make sure you're getting all your vitamins. Not taking vitamins or taking less than a daily allowance of your vits will bring you down, down.

If you are taking your vits, make sure it's the full daily allowance. Many of the suppliments are only a fraction of what you need a day.

Much love to you!

...thank you for your kind words. I can't even make eye contact with any one without crying. I'm in such a bad way right now. We're going to get a used treadmill and Bowflex with some of our tax return but right now I think I'm beyond training to even help. I just feel like crying and listening to music and being alone. I REALLY need God right now.

Okay.

Picture what you believe God looks like...

See His ginormous hands?

One by one "give" your whole self to fit in one of Those ginormous hands.

I did that a lot when I was hurting. It helped tons.

Let me know if you need commentary...

Mark

(((Mark))

I may be going through withdrawals from Lexapro I just don't know. I've been on it for 3 years and stopped cold a couple of weeks ago. I just don't want to take it anymore. Tired of taking drugs.

Hey, Sweetie. I'm no doctor, but I'm on Lexapro too, having been moved to it from Celexa. What my doctor told me... Do not ever stop taking my anti-Ds without first checking with him. It can have severe effects. I'm changing my meds again and it's being done under doctor supervision and very slowly, otherwise, as has happened in some cases, I may experience extreme moods and even (though very unlikely) psychotic reactions. My H is on alert to watch for any big changes from me. (Which might be hard since I am an emotional riot anyway.)

My mother and my sister are both clinically depressed and have been on drugs for years/decades. Two of my best friends have been on anti-Ds for years. It is nothing to be ashamed of. Yes, they are drugs, but they are not addictive and they are to help you live a better life, not a worse one.

My point being... I think you stopping the Lexapro cold turke may be a huge factor in why you're feeling like you can't control your sadness and depression. I read you're not seeing your doc until Friday, but please do me a favor and call his/her office a.s.a.p. to see if you should resume taking it until you can get into the doctor's office. Please do not be experimenting with your emotional health right now if you can help it.

Thank you, Mark. And I'd like your commentary if you're willing, as your insight always provide so much more for me. (That is if you don't mind, Sparkster.)

Agree with L4, Sparky...Call your doc! Anti-D's aren't supposed to be stopped cold turkey...We need a spanking emoticon 'round here!

((((Sparky))))

Mrs. W

Stopping cold will mess you up worse'n you've ever been messed with.

It's mental agony. Why wish that upon yourself? Your doc can help you wean off...w/out the torment.

Oh baby (cos, everyone needs to be called baby once in awhile)...wooza...I know that feeling.

Don't forget your vitamins!

(I know...I'm a pushy broad)

I would be honored.

MS, I did a 3 week wean off lexapro and still it gave me the crazys. Please please taper off don't go cold turkey or you may do something stupid!

I've got an appointment with my GP on Fri. Aside from just stopping the Lexapro, I've got a few other things that I want to talk to her about that sort of prompted me to stop cold. I want to make sure that my body is completely rid of it.

Night sweats
Periods every two weeks
Loss of hair
Weight gain (15lbs)
Depression
Zero sex drive
Hard to get to sleep / Hard to get up in the morning
Hard to stay on task
Anxiety attacks

My OCD is returning but right now, that's the least of my worries.

How long were you on Lexapro? I lost my sex drive, lost my eye lashes, had anxiety attacks, paranoia, sleep problems and weight gain on Lexapro. Going cold turkey will not help.

...But, Sparkey, you don't know if these things are caused by the Lexapro, your undeniable stress, your diet, your less exercise...

When I used to exercise a lot (6 days a week, 2 hours a day) my cycles were few and light. When I slowed it way down, they came back with a vengence. You are no longer working out 3 hours a day which is maybe why your body is reacting as it is.

I have no idea. I'm just brainstorming. I'm not a doctor. But I am worried about you. And messing with meds can be dangerous. I've witnessed this myself.

Please be careful and make sure you H is fully aware of what you're doing in case you need help and he needs to communicate to someone. I'm not meaning to be dire, but if you're suffering an anxiety attack and he needs to contact your doc, your H needs to know what do report.

3yrs straight. Tired of it.

I'll be ok. If she says to get back on it I will. Right now, I'm just frustrated with everything that's going on with me. Spartan knows everything and he's been keeping a very watchful, loving eye on me. He offered me a Xanax and I refused.

I used to be a happy person without all of this junk (or at least I think I was) and I just don't want to rely on it any longer. I want my body to regulate itself on its own.

I sorely miss training but even if I had my membership I doubt that I would go. My self esteem is so low that I don't even want to go out any more.

Spartan offered to get me a toy and even that I'm not wanting.

Shoot, am I even a woman any more?

Still at work and using a wireless modem to connect right now. I'll try to get back later tonight...Maybe????

Girlfriend, if you're having "periods every two weeks," I can state that you are positively and undeniably a woman.

Tell him to get you FunSlides. No one can resist 'em. My kids and I have a blast with them and they are a good work-out.

I'm trying to lighten the mood, Sparkster, because you need to stay strong. Your boys need you. All 3 of them. And when you feel weak, lean on Spartan.

You can do this.

*gasp!* I NEED THOSE!!!!! Just in time for the Santa Ana winds, too. "Sparky" won't just be a proper noun, it will also be a verb!

Passing for right now on the theological concepts in verse 15...

Christ is the reason that all things were created. The NIV says it,"By Him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible..." It is in Him that we find our purpose and meaning. And He is actively involved in our lives right now. v17 "He...holds it all together right up to this moment." He isn't just sitting back watching it all unfold but has a direct hand in what takes place. Nothing escapes His notice. Nothing happens that isn't known by him. And even our miserable little lives only continue because He wills it to be so.

When we have sinned we cry out to God for mercy. We discover that He has been calling out to us all along. While we turned away to follow our own selfishness, He was calling to us to come back to Him.

Now as we approach we realize that we are so unworthy of His love and compassion. We fear that He will reject us. But we find that even though our own family might reject us, He will accept us, comfort us and return us to where we are once more safe from ourselves and our own evil desires.


He is speaking to captive Israel but the message is for us all. We fear the future and what it might hold. We feel that all hope is lost. But God says that He knows what plans he has for us and that those plans are not something that need to be feared. His plans are for good and not evil. They are plans to give us hope. His plans are better than our own plans and are in fact the best for us, even when they don't match what we want for ourselves. But we have already shown that what we want for ourselves is destructive, not in our own best interest and wrong. We can trust Him because He has only what is best for us in mind. We don't have to know all the details; we only have to know that He will handle it if we let Him.

And if we search for Him and seek His will for our lives, He will make sure that we find what we seek. If we long for things we don't have or run after selfish desires, we seldom get what we want. By looking for Him and His future for us, we can be assured that we will find it. And when we find Him, He sets us free from our bondage to our own selfishness and puts us back on the path that leads to where He wants us to go. He will restore to us all those things that we lost when we chose to turn away from Him.

Try to imagine a mother forgetting her nursing child. Imagine her abandoning that child. Around here we see it often. It is in fact a matter of human nature that when we choose to follow our own selfish ways we can even turn our backs on those we love, even our children.

God isn't at all like us.

He says that even though a mother might forget all about her own baby, He will not forget about us. No matter how far we go or what we do He constantly has us in his thoughts. He says that it would be pretty much impossible to forget about us and abandon us because He has engraved us on the palms of His hands.

And the word engrave means just that. It is taking a sharp object and cutting into the surface to create an image that remains beyond merely writing with ink and paper. It's as if He has carved our names into His own hands just as He carved His laws into stone at Mt Sinai.

As it says in Joshua, "I will never leave you or forsake you." (Joshua 1:5)


This Psalm of David was written after he had committed adultery with Bathsheba. He not only committed adultery but had her husband killed after trying to cover up his sin and the fact that she was pregnant.

When the prophet Nathan came to him and showed him how incredibly wrong and selfish he had been and still was, David wrote Psalm 51.

Realizing that he has no basis for standing before God, David cries out for compassion. He recognizes his own sins and can't get it out of his mind. (v3) He accepts whatever consequences God might have for him. (v4) He recognizes that only God can repair the damage that he has done. He calls upon God to remove his evil thoughts and desires and to recreate in him a new and worthy heart, to rebuild him from the inside out.

And then in v16 and 17 David comes to a conclusion that we need to be reminded of whenever we find ourselves begging for another chance. What can make up for our sins? What can we offer to repay what we have destroyed? Can God be placated by any sort of sacrifice or ceremonial actions? Will saying the right prayer or saying the right things relieve us of our guilt?

To God the only acceptable thing we have to offer is our own selves, broken, contrite and at His mercy.

You see, God never stopped caring or calling out to us even in our darkest days when we tried to hide from Him because of our sin. He waited while we ran away and waited for us to come back to Him exhausted and having suffered the consequences of our wrong doing.

Even now He wants us to call on Him and turn from our belief that we can make things right. All He expects, all HE accepts, is our brokenness. Until we are broken, He can offer us none of what He promises. We can't earn it, but can only accept it and only by letting Him take over and fix the mess we have made of ourselves and our lives.

And that IS the short version...

Mark

Thank you so much, Mark. Instead of T/Jing MS's thread, I'll respond on my own. This is so relevant to me too.

I wonder if we'd get a discount for buying in bulk?

Mark1952,

I have printed out your post and will let it absorb through me. I have to many things to say.....but the first thing is a VERY heartfelt and humble "thank you". You are clearly a man who loves God and has a beautiful, clear relationship with Him.

I will respond as soon as I am able. Tonight I have counseling at 7:00.

My emotions swing from one extreme to the other. When I'm feeling good, it's TOTALLY good and vice versa. Right now, I am ok but I know that the rest of the day may present a downslide again for no apparent reason. Tonight, I see our counselor but will be going solo since Spartan has to go out of town for work until Sun. Don't worry...I have PLENTY to keep me busy. Work, kids, a weekend that is so packed that one error in schedule with throw everything off. I will be surrounded with friends from our church and I also plan to be HERE quite a bit. Friday I am off and I have my Dr.'s appointment in the AM, the kids' dental checkup in afternoon and of course I need to get my nails done which takes about an hour and a half. Did I say I also want to hit Element Coffee to do some reading in HNHN?

If I find idle time, I have plenty of paint in the garage to start another project. I just painted our kitchen and it turned out so killer! Would be nice to surprise Spartan with a painted den. He really likes it when I do stuff like that. And I like seeing him smile.

I think my hormones are way out of whack.

I was told I was peri menopausal at my last Dr. appointment.

And the upside (per the doctor) is I only got 10 more years of the PM symptoms before I'm all done.

Why does that sound like an eternity??? And why did SHE put it like that??

I'm around your age, too, Sparkley-chica...a smidge older, but not by much.

Vitamins...

(you can call me a nag, now)

Some of these hot spells make me feel like I'm taking a public shower!

I haven't given up the vitamins! I take a very specialized kind....Target brand multi's.

Wanna hear twisted?

Last night I was burning up and my feet were freezing.

So I shucked everything but the socks.

I HATE wearing socks to bed.

This is too twisted for color TV.

Think about adding a complete B vitamin as well as calcium and magnesium. One needs to take the calcium WITH the magnesium because the two don't assimulate into the body well without each other. I read something at the doctor's office that said people who get enough calcium not only do good for their bones, but it has also helped with moods.

I've also used St. Johns Wort before I had insurance - it helped with my moods...and I keep a bottle of Rescue Remedy (in the homeopathic section) in my purse at all times.

Oh...and I bring my weiner dog, S'midgeon, to work on the days I'm blue. She's here with me today. One finds it very difficult NOT to smile when there is a mini-weiner dog around.

Spartan made it to the racetrack safe and sound last night around 2:00am. He forgot his ATM card and so I've been trying to find a way to either wire him some money or get his card sent out overnight to him. Wiring is out because they're literally out in the middle of NOWHERE and I'm waiting to hear back from him on whether or not to FedEx his card out if his boss doesn't float him. What a jerk!! You know, you would figure that he would take care of his employees.

I went to our counselor last night and I completely offloaded last week on her. By the time I left, my mascara was gone and I felt drained but more at ease. She scolded me for stopping the Lexapro cold turkey and asked me to follow up with my Dr. tomorrow to see if there is something else I can take that won't interfere with my sex drive. If I need to be on it, then so be it. Quite frankly, I'm miserable right now with excruciating headaches, nausea and dizziness.

Spartan and I miss each other very much and have been calling and texting since he left. I had the kids call him last night to tell him "goodnight" when they went to bed. They've been perfect! Tonight is DS1's counseling appt and after that we'll be going out to one of our standard places to eat. Not sure yet, but my mother and I may get a couple of piercings done! We're only 16 years apart and sometimes we're like sisters. She wants her cartilage done on her hear and I want a very petite nose piercing (Spartan is ok with it). The kids will of course be with us watching mom and grandma! Yeah....only in So Cal, right? We'll see if Spartan notices when he gets back.

I looked at used gym equipment today but it was out of our budget. I'm actually looking forward to having him as my gym buddy! We plan to train together at home. He has never been comfortable in a gym setting and even before my affairs, he didn't want me going. In retrospection, I did not take extrordinary care in considering his feelings back then. Turns out, he was right in how he felt.

Has anyone heard about John Gottman's, "4 horsemen of the apocalypse" in a relationship? My counselor explained it to me and it was extremely insightful.

Hi, Sparalotta. I hope your doctor was able to give you direction today to help you feel better. I also hope your DS's IC went well and the piercings turned out extra groovy.

Stay busy, keep calling Spartan, take your meds, play with your kids, read you books, get your rest, and take care of yourself. And if you do decide to paint the den, stay away from the avacado green. I hear that color is very yesterday.

Hey L4!

Thanks for thinking about me.

Dr. gave me the eyebrow raise and then the scolding about getting off of the Lexapro, sooooooo I started back on it today. The other options for meds my insurance wouldn't cover. GIRLS ONLY: She is pretty concerned about my 2wk cycles so I'm going in for a pap next week and then getting lab work done to check my hormone and thyroid levels. She's also ordered a pelvic ultrasound to see what's going on. I'm more than likely due to change out my IUD since I have the Mirena and those are only good for 5yrs. Spartan was relieved that I went and also that I'm back on the meds.

DS1's counseling went so well that he doesn't have to come back for another 3wks just to check in! It's been 4 years of going once a week with him. Even with the loss of Cairo, he's doing well.

Nose piercing went totally well! My mum decided to go somewhere else, so it was just the boys and I. They watched me get one of my tattoos done and so this wasn't a big deal to them.

DS2 bit another student this morning so he got to spend the day with me today. There goes part of the shopping I needed to do without the kids (Easter basket stuff). *sigh*

Gotta scram and take the boys to their annual dental check up.

Two cavities for both DS's but all in all their checkups were good. Appts for fillings will be in May.

I cannot lie and say that I haven't been tempted to want to see the xOM but then I pray to bind those thoughts and I envision Jesus dying on the cross and the thoughts disappear quickly. I also think about what that relationship was about and not only does it make me shudder, but I also get angry! Not just angry at him but also at myself. Never in a million years did believe I would cross that line but I did. Never again will I open my lovebank to someone else. It became equally as as entangled and disasterous as our national debt.

I called Spartan and told him that the kids and I would be going out to dinner with our friends who are getting married tomorrow, but that my phone was completely dead. I told him to call either of our friends if he needed me and he said, "no worries".

He called the groom and talked to him while the kids and I were there, but the groom didn't tell me who was on the phone. I had no clue who called.

How AWESOME of a feeling it was to know that he called and that we were totally where I said we were! Lovin' that!!!

Bet Spar loved it too!

Let me tell you from a betrayed, when your fw does what they say and say what they do, (an elephant's faithful, 100%) the heart begins to sing again.

Knew I liked YOU for a reason, Sparkly - I'm tatted too!

Oh I could totally hear the ease in his voice when I called him. He's been gone since Wed. night and is due back tonight. I CAN'T WAIT!!!! The house isn't exactly cleaned up, but it's because we were constantly on the go. Went to church yesterday and from there, spent the rest of the day with my parents and had dinner with them, too. Got my Easter basket shopping done, too!! My mum and I had DS1 with us (DS2 was with grandpa) and we stopped by a small petting zoo. They had two wallabies there and I fell in love with them!! Called Spartan, "we TOTALLY need to adpot a wallaby!" I checked into them but they're WAY expensive.

Dealan-de: How many tatts do you have and what are they? I've got 4 tatts and two piercings (nose and belly).

I've 10 piercings in one ear, 3 in the other and my navel.

I've 4 tats, but am always looking to add (grin).

You want a wallaby and I want a capybara...but if we get a capy, then we have to dig a pond in the back yard...and I don't know if I can talk the Wookie into messing with his lawn. You don't come between a Wookie and his lawn...it just ISN'T done...

Oh yes.....I have another tatt in mind, too. Once it starts, ya know. Spartan doesn't have any YET.

I love capy's, too! I'm such a softie when it comes to animals.

I'm pretty lucky in that the fella's territories are the garage and the den. All of the rest is free range for me!

My fella is due home in an hour or two!! He's in store for LOTS of hugs and kisses and a dinner out with his family. And for sure some...

I want to take out the trash but decided to leave it there because I want him to see that there wasn't any "retail therapy" (aside from the piercing) that was done. That's kind of been a problem for me in the past. I don't want to be rude but I also don't want him to think I'm hiding anything. I'm just talkin' trash here!

Sparky,

Make him so glad to be home he'll wonder why he left in the first place...

Mark

Bet they're sleeping in. ;-)

Lol! I was 30 minutes late to work this morning.

Poor guy, he's sooooo tired from that trip. Hasn't had a weekend at all and is sun and wind burned from being out at the track. He just wants to go home and go to bed.

We had a good time last night! The kids were a little out of line, but I think that's par for the course since now they have to share me again with him.

There was a fatal 1 car crash that happened Sat. morning one street over from us and I showed him the site. Since he's been an auto tech and raced motorcycles, he knows the dynamics and attitudes of vehicles and crash sites. He totally explained how the whole scene more than likely played out. I am absoluely fascinated with his knowledge of that and love listening to him unravel the mystery. Same thing when he diagnoses a vehicle. I always tell him how much I admire that about him.

We didn't get to spend too much time together last night but tonight will be better. I'm gonna give him a nice, relaxing evening.

BTW....he LOVED the nose!!! HE thinks it's sexy which is exactly what I was hoping for!

Awesome cool.

He's prolly with race movies and shows the way the Wookie is with CSI and Law and Order!

The Wookie is always complaining about shows not being right...I have to ask him, "who cares about right when it's written in the script?"

Men!

Hey, Sparky and Dealan-de. I have only one tat and have let three of my 5 ear piercings close. Can I still play in the sandbox?

Glad to see the smile in your thread here, Sparks. It's coming through loud and clear. Remember this feeling. It's what Spartan and your family give you.

Have fun tonight.

How you doin'?

...eh

We could be better to be honest. Lots of LB's and DJ's on both of our parts. I've been reading HNHN's but won't read it in tandum with me because I'm reading it. I'm going to check out a copy for him at the library and will continue to renew it until he's done.

I want domestic support and he wants sexual fulfillment. Neither one of us is getting these needs met. This has ALWAYS been a problem for us.

He has been asking me very detailed questions about the SF that I got from the OM and then he hates me for the answer. I don't know what to do anymore.

We're both very frustrated and angry with each other as of this morning from a fight that we had last night.

FIGHTING, FIGHTING, FIGHTING....that's all we ever do!

I can't do anything right and I'm STILL being punished for something that happened LAST WEEK!!

I'm the ONLY one reading the book. He has absolutely NO interest. So, I guess I'm just amusing myself here thinking that he will "magically" become sensitive to my needs as well.

Grrrrrr!!!!

Just like all of the other holidays.......this one is gonna suck, too!!

No it's not. Why? Because of why you're celebrating the holiday in the first place. You celebrate Easter to celebrate Christ's resurrection -- to remember that you are forgiven and that God's grace is good.

Look at the joy in your kids' faces tomorrow when they get their baskets. Listen to the hymns (I love "Jesus Christ Is Risen Today") and let the music fill your soul as you think how magnificent God is. Feel in your heart the love that God has for you. Taste your Easter dinner and think of how blessed you are to have that nurishment. Rest in your home and remember your good fortune for having a roof over your head. Take in your children's faces and think of how fortunate you are to have them. And think of how Spartan is there with you.

It is hard right now, Sparky, but you have much to be thankful for. Tomorrow doesn't have to suck. Take the time to recognize what the day symbolizes and what it means. Jesus sacrificed for you and came back for you. Think of how no matter how hard you life is -- you are blessed.

As you are a child of God.

Thank you, L4.....as always, the words that I need to hear.

Church was wonderful (we rocked as usual) and celebrated "Resurrection Day" PROPER! The kids had a blast going through their baskets and findind the eggs that Spartan and I hid. The rest of the day was spend over at my parents' house and Spartan and I unraveled into a very distant, angry mess. By the time we got home, I was ready to file for divorce.

Our church gifted Spartan and I a FamilyLife "A Weekend to Remember" for this coming weekend. In my heart of hearts, I think that this may be the last thing we can do to try to salvage this marriage. We cannot afford an MB weekend as much as I want to go. We do not have any credit cards and my 401K has been emptied out to get caught up on our mortgage payment.

I'm tired of him being disrespectful to the kids (he told DS1 last night to sit on the floor because he didn't want to make room on the loveseat for him to join him). That didn't set well with me. He got totally angry because I went on to MB to check my thread and was actually acting like I was on MySpace or Facebook or something like that. I had just gotten on and began to read a post when he came in and argued with me, so I quickly shut it down.

Sex between us is miserable. Just like Harley explains in the book, if a woman isn't ready she will be sacrificing herself if her man pressures her to engage in SF. And that's exactly the way it is between us. I feel bitter and used because of it.

I daydream of living alone with the kids and doing things as a single mom. Going to the beach, working with them on their homework, teaching them new things and raising respectful men without hearing their father bark at them and treat them like dirt. That really p*ssed me off last night! When it comes to the kids, you don't go there with me around. Fine if he wants to treat me like crap but NOT THEM.......EVER.

I don't know how many times I've started this post and then pulled it back.

I think I have been drinking to escape the pain and guilt of what I have done.

I understand, Sparky. My alcohol intake increased post-A and certainly post D-day. And I've noticed my H's has too.

We are adults and well aware of the dangers of this. The guilt and shame may be numbed by the liquor, but they don't go away. While they will likely never go away, you can hand them over to God to carry along with you.

I know this is hard as I am not fully there either. You have to look at what you did and why. You have to know you can't change what you did. You put up solid EPs and boundaries, and you move on. Hopefully moving on includes Spartan. If it doesn't, make sure it's not because you didn't give it a try.

You are a child of God and God is with you now. No alcohol, no OM, no job, and no words from others can take that from you. Lean on God now and know you will get through this.

Give yourself a chance, Sparky, and Spartan too. Stay clear, focused, and committed. Don't stop until you KNOW you can't do it anymore. Take a breath, get some sleep, and go again tomorrow.

BTW... What was with this weekend? You, Roo, and I all sure had a go of it, didn't we?

Take care. And I mean really... Take care.

I don't know if this helps or not, but if you guys can get through the hardest bit of recovery, the drinking will more than likely peter out.

BTDT.

I'm so sorry it's so hard right now.

MS, you keep shooting yourself and your marriage in the foot, and then complain because it hurts.

When you do this it's GONNA hurt!

It's been 4 weeks since I told you to read SAA and HNHN and then re-read HNHN and answer the questions at the end of the chapter.

I can tell that you still have not done this.

I can tell you are allowing yourself to be distracted by every breeze that blows into your life and then complain because everything is going wrong, and it's not your fault.

What you decide to give priority is what will have priority.

You are still suffering from the disease of poor choices that causes extreme outbreaks of poor meeee's.

You are absolutely right on every level. I've been wallowing in everything that I've done wrong and concentrating on how miserable things are because of it. I realize how counterproductive it is and I needed to get smacked back into reality to pick myself up and start moving again. I honestly thank you for that. I was being stupid and it's no wonder why no one wanted to help me out. No one wants to hear it and now that I look back at my posts, I don't want to hear it either.

I got a pretty heavy 2x4 last night from one of the girls at our church recovery group. She demanded that I come to the meeting last night (I haven't been in weeks) to watch The Passion. After the movie was over, she told me that I had no business drinking with everything that is going on. She also told me that she didn't care whether or not Spartan was doing what he was "supposed to do" as a husband. What SHE cared about was that I was serving GOD and being a GODLY wife. She chased me around for quite a bit last night and was appropriately unapologetic about it. Yeah it stung but I listened. I learned quite a bit about her last night and found that she and I have a lot in common about our past ways. Evidently, God knows that I needed her because she got my attention. She and her husband will be going to the "Weekend to Remember" with us this weekend along with several other couples from church.

When I came home last night, Spartan had vacuumed, cleaned our bathroom, did the dishes, watered the plants, went to Home Depot to get salt for the water softener, picked up the house and left one of the accent lights on in the kitchen for me (he knows I like that). It melted me and I thanked him profusely and told him how much that meant to me.

Have you read the books?

I'm still reading HNHN's.

Between tst and this young woman, God has been trying to get your attention. Hon, tst is right. You need to F O C U S on your recovery. Forget all those other books you want to read. Read SAA and HNHN. Whether spartan does or does not do the "right" things, YOU need to do what is necessary to recover from this. That is whether or not your M recovers. Otherwise, you will never regain your self respect. I can look in the mirror again, can you?

Nope. I haven't had self respect in a number of years and I've been relying on everyone else to supply that for me by how they see me. If someone says anything negative to me, I let it decimate me.

My friend from church just replied to an e-mail I sent her thanking her for straightening me up last night.

Here is what she sent me:

I’m sorry if I came on strong, but God has done and continues to do so much for me and Miguel that it would be a sin to just watch you and Bob come so far for you to just hand your marriage over to Satan.



Just keep your focus on the LORD and be in the Word (read Ephesians), I know it’s hard(SUPER HARD no doubt) but just do it! Just imagine how rewarding it will be once you share your testimony with another couple after your 50th anniversary with Bob…. The man that you made your covenant with God till death do you part.


I'm in grateful tears....

What are you going to ALLOW to be important in your life? A human's words, or God's will?

God knows you from the top of your head to the tips of your toesies and loves you anyway.

Why would you place any importance upon mere words when the Holiest of Holies already loves you unconditionally?

That is the Lord speaking to you through this woman. You are very blessed to have her in your life.

Yeppers! This is the truth!

My focus has been all wrong for a while. I was just starting to "get it" and then I totally went off of the deep end and let all of the white noise in life interfere. God was whispering but I didn't quiet down to listen. I wasn't going to church, wasn't reading my bible as I used to, wasn't praying for the things that I needed and let my relationship with Jesus lax. Plain and simple, I wasn't faithful to my Father. And I wonder why I feel like this?!

Yes, Athena is a blessing for me. She came from out of nowhere and was exactly what I needed.

Ask yourself that in the Grand Scheme of Things, after all that you've lived through, are the words that are being said to you the absolute Worst Things Ever?

Honestly, now.

All of us here have been through much worse than criticism, right?

It's all about perspective. Sometimes YOU have to change the view so you can see it from ALL of the sides, instead of settin' (sitting) in one spot and ALLOWING it to take you up the wazoo.

You're so right! You wouldn't believe some of the things that I've been through in my life.

OOOOHHH! You gave me the shivvvvvvvvers.

Say it again!

All hail to the queen!!! You lil stinker. :crosseyedcrazy:

It's like Whoopie Goldberg's character in Lion King.

"Mufasa."

"Ohhh. That name scares me to death! Say it again!"

"Mufasa, Mufasa, Mufasa!"

EXACTLY WHAT I WAS THINKING!!! You and I think too much alike....scary!

Maybe we're each other's dopplegangers.

Better than an incubus, that's for sure. Although I do like, Incubus!

So, no drinky drinks for both of us since Easter and it's been nice. No fighting over stupid things and no arguements in bed.

Last night, we were both reading. I had my nose in HNHN's and he was reading The Explosive Child. I am home today and so I plan to read quite a bit more. Wasn't feeling well this morning and I probably could have gone in to work, but decided to kick it at home with the kids since they're off for Spring break.

Spartan asked me twice if everything was ok and if it was only my stomach that was bothering me. Both times I said yes. I know he means well with comments like that, but it makes me feel like a) he doesn't trust me and b) he thinks I'm mentally insane and incapable of expressing my feelings. My biological father gave my mother a necklace with a pendant on it with the saint of the mentally insane (whoever that is) and engraved it with my name on it. To this day, it makes me furious! So comments like that are a trigger for me. I explained that to him before he left and he took it the wrong way and said, "I just won't say anything anymore". *sigh* That's not what I meant at all.

Sparky...

Is it any wonder that Sparty doesn't trust you? Really he would be a fool to trust you right now...You need to accept that you aren't trusted right now and it will take loads of time along with trustworthy actions on your part in order to restablish any sort of trust...Fair enough?

Sparty is NOT your biological father and you need to keep that stuff separate...It is incredibly unfair for you to put him in that position...

Did you think for a minute about him? That perhaps he was questioning you out of his own VALID insecurity right now? That he was looking for reassurance that it wasn't anything else besides your stomach? Empathy, Sparky, empathy...Stop shooting at your husband...He is ON YOUR TEAM!!!

Mrs. W

Should he trust you?

Have your actions over the past years been sane?

Well said Mrs. W.

Exactamundo.

(not affliated in any way with TELEmundo!)



Sparkly dear, I know your hurtin' too...and it's an enourmous hurt...but a heartfelt wooza from you and your arms around him telling him you love him and are there for him will go a million and one miles in a positive direction for him for awhile.

Trust.

(Doncha just LOVE you some Mrs. Dubya? I know I do!)

Do you have Dr. Harley's Love Busters book? I'm wondering if it would be more beneficial for the two of you to work on eliminating the LBs first so the ENs can have the full effect. LB withdrawals tend to be bigger than the ENs deposit.

Just a thought.

Very good point, Dragonfly.

You guys are da bomb! And yes, I undersand now that he was asking just to validate his own insecurity. The old me would have taken the kids to camp so I could see the OM. But this is the new, still tarnished but shining through Sparky. I kept the kids home with me and have taken them EVERYWHERE with me. We met Spartan for lunch (which I used to deny him) because I knew it would mean a lot to him. DS2 didn't want to go, but tough!

We talked and laughed quite a bit which was nice. I also took Gidget (our 8yr old cat) to the vet for a check up and yearly shots. Then we went to Target and I got healthier snacks for the kids, socks and boxers for the boys and a few other necessities. No retail therapy for mom which was difficult but achievable.

We don't have the LoveBusters book yet but plan on getting it after we finish what is currently on in line. By the time we're through reading, there shouldn't be any excuses for failure.

Yes, I'm trying very hard to be trusted again although I do get frustrated that it can't be gained overnight.

Spartan laughed at me because I was surfing the Net trying to find the actual name of that saint and came across "St. Lucifer's Asylum". It's a haunted house that supposed to be pretty gruesome and since he knows how much I hate horror movies, he gave me this "holy smokes" look and said, "How in the WORLD did you EVER come across that?!"

Counseling tonight and then the big weekend starting Fri. night. Baby steps....even with these size 9's.

Sparky,

Something that Mr. W pointed out to me about Sparty's questioning you was that he was likely also asking because he is taking more care when it comes to you...That he wants an intimate connection with you and wasn't willing to just blow off your problems whatever they were...He wanted to KNOW...How great is that? Go hug that husband of yours kiddo...Sounds like he loves you more than you know...

Sparky...This counseling deal you keep referring to...What exactly are you getting out of that? Some of the things you say make me concerned that you are placing too much emphasis on things of the past...stuff from your childhood for instance...I know that MANY counselors keep you stuck in the past rather than leading you to deal with the stuff that is CURRENT...That kind of counseling can be harmful actually...There is NOTHING you can do to change the past and often times rooting around in that stuff keeps you stuck in misery and prevents you from LIVING...What do you think?

Mrs. W

P.S. Thanks tst and Kimmy...the two of you have been incredible on this thread yourselves...

Hey sweetie!

I'll start with the counseling since it will be a good segway into your first paragraph.

We're going to a Christian marriage and family therapist as a couple. She knows our individual upbringings (as a basis to see some of our triggers from the past) but sticks to bringing our marriage into what God desires for us. She always opens with asking us individually how our week was with each other and that usually starts off the topic. Last night, we talked about the Easter explosion and also his comment to me about whether or not my stomach was the only thing bothering me and how I reacted.

She gave us some "homework" and wants us to work on specificity on apologies to each other and the kids and also questions to each other so that we can gain more intimacy between us.

For instance when Spartan asked me if my stomach was the only thing bothering me, the miscommunication would have been headed off at the pass if he had asked more specifically "Does your head hurt, too or is it just your stomach?". It turns out that that's actually what he meant.

We're to stay away from broad statements and questions. Great example...."How are you?" "Good". If that happens, we're to follow up with something more specific. "Is your stomach still feeling crummy?"

I read up to chapter 6 in HNHN's and left off at Recreational Fulfillment. Last night over dinner, I told him what my favorite part of the day is and why. And then I asked the same of him. What I realized is that neither one of us knew the answer to that about each other.

Ya know, I'm very girlie but sometimes when I read this book I feel like I have the men's perspective on some of these things.

So tonight begins our "Weekend to Remember" and we're both really excited about it! Tonight is registration and a short 2hr intro. Tomorrow is a full day and they request that you plan a romantic evening together that night. Sunday is a wrap up for just a few hours and then dismissal at noon.

I'll let everyone know how it went! There will be lots of Christian fellowship and I'm looking forward to meeting new couple's friends and girlfriends.

tst...I'm almost finished with the book!

Oh...praying good stuff for your weekend!

We'll be praying for you both. Have a great time!

Family Life is a great bunch, BTW, at least for a bunch from Arkansas...

Mark

Hi, Sparky. Wondering how it went. Hope it went well.

Mornin' darlin.

Thought about you both this weekend and hoped you were learning lots and lots.

Hey guys!

Thanks for all of the thoughts and well wishes for us on our weekend.

The conferences were wonderful and gave us many Christian tools in order to base our marriage off of. Since I'm going to MB school right now, the FamilyLife program seemed to me like a basic overview for me. It just didn't do as much for me as the Dr. H's book. *shrug* Spartan on the other hand really enjoyed it which was good. I think that he may gather so much more from MB. I sooooo wish that we would afford to do a weekend. Maybe we will be able to do a phone call with them. We'll talk about that tonight.

I had a very hard time softening up while we were there. I could feel myself throwing up a cold, steel wall and getting defensive and annoyed when I would see couples who were truly connected with each other. And in no short order, I decided that it was the adversary wedging his way in because he knows how fragile the state of our marriage is. One more fracture in our relationship may be the one to break us entirely. I don't want to sound like I'm paranoid or a total freak for believing that it's the adversary attacking me but that's how I feel.

I've taken the day off today (could hardly get out of bed even after crashing last night at 7:30). I know I'm very deeply depressed and I desperately want help. I'll talk to my Dr. on Friday about a supplement to Lexapro. This is nuts. If you knew me when I was whole, you wouldn't recognize me now. I feel hopelessly stuck and trapped in the dark and I feel like the light inside of me is dying.

Spartan and I agreed that in our marriage, we have emotional gender reversals. He enjoys being cuddled and saying sweet nothings. I would rather hurry up and get it done so that we can go out and do things. I've been wrestling with this for a while and I really don't like the dynamics of it all. It's confusing and causing problems.

2 Corinthians 10:3-5 (NIV)

.."For though we live in the world, we do not wage war as the world does. The weapons we fight with are not the weapons of the world. On the contrary, they have divine power to demolish strongholds. We demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself up against the knowledge of God, and we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ."

The adversary enjoys leading your thinking astray. He wants to take your mind and in the end take your soul.

Stay focused!

Get your rear in gear and get busy working on one thing at a time!

That scares me beyond belief....honestly I wanted to ask for a circle of prayer this weekend, but didn't. I did however write a very lengthy, DETAILED AND SPECIFIC prayer request and submitted it in the box. They had people there who prayed all weekend long for everyone there. There were times where I could feel myself being lifted up but then came crashing down again. I will NOT submit to the adversary!! In stead of looking stunned, saying "this isn't happening to me" I need to stand up and scream "THIS WILL NOT HAPPEN TO ME!"

This is my primary focus. Thank you for posting that scripture and for caring. I am so grateful...

Think on it like this (this is what helped me through the Wookie's adultry)...if'n the marriage WASN'T such a good thing, the advesary wouldn't be workin' so hard to tear it up.

We must have something REALLY special for the horned one to want to destroy it so much, right?

Very, very true.

I need a no contact letter. I backslid.

Have you told Spartan?

Yes and understandably, he is livid. He doesn't know what he wants to do with me right now.

He wanted OM's name and address which I gave him. He also wants me to send out a certified NC letter which I should have done a long time ago. Not sending one always left the door open and for me, that's an invitation for failure.

I will change my cell number tonight.

I don't want him to leave me, but how can I blame him? What I did was completely unnecessary, stupid and selfish.

You called OM?

or

OM called YOU?

OM texted/called. I responded.

He called and was still wanting me to leave Spartan and was angry that I chose my marriage over him. Said some very hurtful things to me.

Spartan is sick to his stomach and is coming home for the day.

Needless to say, we have a lot to talk about. If anyone wants to contact me privately, e-mail the admin.

You're being too vague!

Exactly what transpired?

(example)
OM texted me. I texted back. OM asked me to call. I called him. We talked for 25 minutes. etc. etc. etc.

WHY didn't you change your number??!! This should have happened immediately so OM CAN'T contact you. Go down and get the number changed ASAP!

He texted me and I texted back. He called me and left me a message and said he wanted to talk to me about something (sounded serious). I called back and we got into a pretty heated arguement for about 30 minutes.

You could've called MEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!

I'm disappointed...

Mrs. W

:twobyfour:

I'm on the phone with my girlfriend from church and I'm getting an earful. She's all about transparency with me. "If he wants to smell your panties when you get home from work, you let him."

Spartan is home now and I'm scared.

MS,

The only thing I can advise is don't give Spartan that lame excuse that you thought OM had something serious to talk to you about. Would POSOM have left a message to tell you your children or a loved one was dead? No. Would he have left a message to tell you the Earth was about to blow up? No. WTH could POSOM possibly have to say that was so serious you'd trample over your BH again? Admit you were weak and foolish. Nothing is more infuriating than excuses.

Excellent point. Don't try to B-S your way out of this. You screwed up and hopefully can show Spartan you truly want to be with him. I hope you can understand his doubts.

BR,

You are exactly right on all accounts. I haven't offered Spartan ANY excuses or tried to back out of telling the truth with any of his questions. I have sincerely apologized to him. I will endure his anger...he has every right to be!

I had to go to the drug store to pick up a prescription for him and DS1. He didn't want to go and the kids aren't here, so I called Mrs. W and had her stay on the phone with me from the time I left until I returned to the house.

I also filled out a phone counseling request with Steve Harley and am waiting to be contacted with a time and date.

No matter what happens (if Spartan decides to leave me) I will not go back to the OM.

You fell for the classic ploy by an OP. There's always something "serious". How else are they going to trick you into calling?

I mean honestly, what could have been so serious for him to contact you? He obviously isn't pregnant and there isn't anything else you should care about as far as he's concerned!

Again - change your number and he won't be able to contact you in the first place!

What was the plan supposed to be if OM ever called?

Did you have a plan in place?

Yes, absolutely.

He is in bed, sleeping. I will leave it up to him to decide when he wants to talk or what he wants to do. I think that any effort by me right now will not be taken very seriously. That won't deter me from doing it, though. Words follow actions. My words right now don't hold any merit.

Don't answer.



I didn't have a strong plan because it still left an open avenue for contact. I will change my number.

Until it gets changed, I put him in my phone with the name of DO NOT ANSWER.

Why don't you give your phone to Spartan until you get the number changed? You can go without a phone until then, can't you?

Ok, first kudos for the very honest answer of leaving the door open for contact. ACKNOWLEDGED. Next *whack* with a 2x4 for not changing your number N O W. Not tonight, not tomorrow, not soon N O W! I do this for a living, hon. It takes all of 5 minutes with your cell phone provider to change it. DO IT NOW!

Next, acknowledge your depression was perhaps some left over withdrawl. You need to be honest with yourself and spartan. You have had some left over longings for OM, we have all seen it pop up now and then. You need to close off every single possible avenue for contact and have a PLAN! A plan for what to do if contact should occur. Who do you call? What do you do? Involve spartan in the creation of this plan!

He doesn't even want to look at me right now which is understandable. I am here with him and have my phone on full volume and he knows who I am talking to. So far, it's been a bill collector, one of the girls from church and Mrs. W. Do you know if I can have a number blocked? I'm with Verizon.

Do you think Dr. Harley will still counsel with me if Spartan isn't willing?

I have to admit that I'm very afraid right now. The clock is back at zero and those healing wounds are now ripped right back open again, all under my own stupidity.

Spartan said he wants me to get help. I have called my GP about antidepressants but she won't be back until Wed. so I need to wait until then. I see her Friday anyway. I have a request in to Dr. Harley and I plan on calling our marriage counselor today to admit what I did. Same thing will happen tonight at our church recovery group.

I have to take DS2 to the pediatrician today at 3:30 for his kinder physical and will need a phone buddy to stay on the trip with me in case he doesn't want to to. Chances are, he won't. I've killed him again.

VERIZON BLOCKS NUMBERS!! I'm doing that right now.

Change your number anyway! He will realize he's blocked and will use a different phone! and it will happen all over again.

You aren't back at zero - you are in the negative range. He was probably starting to feel like things are improving and you stabbed him in the heart. Stay strong and do whatever he needs to start over.

I'm pretty certain that he won't ever contact me again, but if that will ensure that he doesn't, I will.

There is only one loophole that he will be able to get through and that is the work e-mail address. I can have him blocked, but he can still e-mail me from another address. I have every other Fri. off and on our out of the office replies, we are required to put our cell numbers on there.

This is 100% accurate. I just got his number blocked and am no longer scared of my phone. It was the bain of my existance.

Is there any BW here who will be a phone buddy with me while I take DS2 to his appt? I know this sounds ridiculous, but I don't want to take ANY risks or have ANY questions.

Sparky,

I'm disappointed...

Oh boy this is hard to type. But I've re-read the last couple of weeks of your thread, Sparky, and I have to ask you this. I am not asking out of malice, but am asking because I want you to really look at yourself.

Was this action of responding to the messages from OM a way of pushing Spartan to react so you can be done?

You've been making a lot of on-the-fence statements lately about how different you two are, how he's treated your children, his anger, and how you've thought of divorced life. In the scenario that played out today, you didn't initiate the contact with OM so you can say, "Well, I didn't reach out to him, he contacted me first." And when you two talked for 30 minutes, you could tell yourself, "He said it was serious so I HAD to." But you also know that contacting OM in anyway might be the deal-breaker for your H. Yet you did it anyway, even though you state here you have no desire to get together with OM.

So were you using OM as a way to make Spartan want to leave?

Even if you didn't wake up today looking to renew contact with OM, you didn't run from it once the opportunity came about. But you have before.

I wonder if deep down you want the M to end but you don't want to be the one to do the dirty work. You're trying to encourage Spartan to do it for you.

???

As am I Mark....as am I.

Is Sparty enthusiastic about YOU counseling with Steve? (FYI: Steve is Steve...a counselor, not a PhD...He's still fabulous, but you don't call him Dr. Harley...His sister Jennifer is a PhD - her name is Dr. Chalmers)

Yes, Steve will counsel you alone...

Mrs. W

P.S. Good post L4...I wonder the same...

I need to look straight into the mirror and take some serious personal inventory of my life.


No, I don't think so. It was purely out of selfish motives to find out what he had to say to me. I was still going through withdrawal and I allowed him to contact me while I was weak by not changing my number back in Dec.


The fence sitting has been going on for a while no doubt. Even prior to the affairs because my EN's weren't being met and I didn't step up to the plate then and healthily ask for them to be fulfilled. I've left my love bank open long enough for someone to finally come along and fill it up. Makes me sick that my bank was filled with dirty money. I completely threw my boundaries out and blasted through like no tomorrow. The result was exactly what I deserved. An azz chewing from him (which in the end, who gives a flying flip) and from everyone who truly matters.....Spartan, my church friends, my MB friends and myself.


No. I made a critical error in panicked judgement. I do not in any way want Spartan to leave me at all...ever. If he chooses to leave me, that will be his choice but I will not file. I'll take any measure to make it work. If that means that I need to keep a log of when I leave my desk to go to the restroom or bring one of my coworkers with me, I will.


I desperately want things to get better and my choice today spells out every indication that I didn't. There's no excuse for backsliding at all. I had way too many other choices in front of me and I blew it.......big time. I am not sure if Spartan knows exactly how remorseful I really am because I'm staying very still in his presence. He went with me to DS2's appointment and then to run a few errands with me and the kids thereafter. We are home now but I will be going to church recovery group in about 30 minutes. I plan to come clean there as well.

I've made a very horrible mistake and I want dearly to rectify it. I will pray for forgiveness (that's the easy part) and start walking right with Jesus (that's the more difficult part). If I can't get it right this time, my soul will be condemned and I know it.

I don't know because he is keeping his distance from me and we're not talking except if we have to.


Thank you, sorry...I got confused.



Response above.

I saw your on the fence posts as more withdrawl. Seems to me you have gone through a long period of withdrawl which spartan senses. As for the EN's, well YES spartan should be filling your top EN's but let me tell you another perspective cuz this may be a long hard road for you. As a Christian wife it is up to YOU to protect your part of the marriage. You need to be the biblical wife you are called to be even when spartan does not do his part. I am NOT saying put up with abuse or adultery on his part, I am saying that until spartan gets to a point of wanting to fill your EN's (and he may not for a while now) you still need to act as a Christian wife.

Great Post ff

ITTA with the following;

Problem is, MS has been and still is still in a wayward mindset. Very self centered and focused on how to get HER own EN's met.


How in the world does Spartan do this all over again?

Withdrawal AND wayward mindset. I clearly see that and have a great deal of anger at myself as well as guilt and remorse. At this point, I see that Spartan has been doing all that he can to be a godly husband and has been going an AWESOME job at that. My own self pity and self centeredness blinded me to it and now that I see the pain I've caused him, I see the beauty in him that I've destroyed. The clarity kills me.

I need to grow up, get a grip and start paying attention to things that are not of this world.

I asked myself that over and over again last night. All I can say is that I will hand my life over to Jesus and pray for our marriage. That is the best that I can do.

As far as worldly things, I have made my confession to all who were at my church recovery group, gave up alcohol and will be completely trasparent with him.

It may take years for him trust me again (if ever). I understand that and in all actuallity, I need to be able to trust and believe in myself as well. I know I can do this. I'm not a bad person. I've made mistakes, but I am not a mistake.

I'm saying this with love and compassion:

"Yes. Now prove it."



It really is that simple.

I am so sorry, Dealan-de.

I know.

Have you ever had one of your kids wander off when you were shopping?

You know that terror feeling in your gut when you first realize you can't see them...it's the feeling that something could be threatening them...right?

That's the feeling a Betrayed feels when contact is made between an OP and the wayward....but it doesn't get better, Sparkly. It's not like, "oh, I found my kid, so everything is okay..."

The terror and feeling that your FAMILY is in danger and that horrible feeling in the pit of your stomach lasts for days, and days, and days, and days.

It's the last thing you feel when(if) you go to sleep, and it's the very first thing you feel when you wake. It's fight or flight syndrome 24/7.

Please understand that for Spartan's sake.

It's not just a hurt...it's an anxiety that is VERY difficult to get ahold of.

I've gone through severe anxiety attacks before and they're enough to make you want to die. I will do everything that I can to put him at ease and to put him first after God.

I downloaded a ringback tone just for Spartan that wholly and completely expresses how I feel.

Hoobastank "The Reason"
www.youtube.com/watch?v=EjC9k7U0Wzc

I am on Verizon too. If you need another ear, the Mrs. has my email addy.

I'll take you up on it. I'll send the admin my number.

So he made me a cup of coffee this morning before he left for work, but didn't want to kiss me. I texted him and told him that I would be joining a group of coworkers for lunch (he has one of their phone numbers that he can verify with) and he didn't respond. I called him to make sure that he got the text and he said yes but he was really busy and hung up without saying goodbye.

There's a part of me that wants to ask if I can stay with our Pastor and his wife for a couple of weeks because I know just looking at me hurts him, but then again I don't want him to think that I'm giving up. It's so hard because I don't know what to do or what he wants me to do. Do I ask for a kiss? Do I sleep in the same bed or bunk with one of the kids? I'm afraid to even ask.

Sparky --

I haven't posted to you...but I've been following your story.
I'm also a FWW.

I know what you're up to. I know you felt a thrill when OM contacted you. I know it met a need for you. I know that your inner thoughts were filled with the thought "he still wants me, I must be great/beautiful/sexy/wonderful/etc because he can't get over me". I know that Spartan probably isn't meeting your need for admiration -- and that left you vulnerable.

If you TRULY want your marriage -- you need to learn how to put your TAKER away. You're not going to get your needs met for awhile. You want to be admired, but there is nothing for Spartan to admire right now. To get what you say you ultimately want -- you have to GIVE.

Thank you for this, Dealan-de.

I'm honored that you took the time to respond to me and I thank you for that.

Absolutely true and today I feel sick inside because of it.

I am preparing for that. It's gonna hurt and I'm going to feel shunned, lonely, diseased, rejected and unwanted. But I know that it was my own actions that caused that. I recognize that it's NOT because I am those things.

I will give all of me that I can and be the wife that he hasn't seen in so many years. I used to be the "over the top" Supermom, Superwife and now I'm not even close to that. I have a lot of work to do. Whatever it takes.

I have purged any and all reminders of him that I could find. I also blocked him from e-mailing me at work. Each step makes me feel lighter and less burdeoned.

OMGosh!

I love me some Lexxxxxxxxxxxxxy (I never know how many xxxx's to write) today.

Shelf your taker for right now, Sparkly. She's only gonna hurt Spart-man right now, cos he's all given out and runnin' on empty.

You will become a Proverbs 31 Woman, Sparkly. You must if you want to earn your family back.

10 [a] A wife of noble character who can find?
She is worth far more than rubies.

11 Her husband has full confidence in her
and lacks nothing of value.

12 She brings him good, not harm,
all the days of her life.

13 She selects wool and flax
and works with eager hands.

14 She is like the merchant ships,
bringing her food from afar.

15 She gets up while it is still dark;
she provides food for her family
and portions for her servant girls.

16 She considers a field and buys it;
out of her earnings she plants a vineyard.

17 She sets about her work vigorously;
her arms are strong for her tasks.

18 She sees that her trading is profitable,
and her lamp does not go out at night.

19 In her hand she holds the distaff
and grasps the spindle with her fingers.

20 She opens her arms to the poor
and extends her hands to the needy.

21 When it snows, she has no fear for her household;
for all of them are clothed in scarlet.

22 She makes coverings for her bed;
she is clothed in fine linen and purple.

23 Her husband is respected at the city gate,
where he takes his seat among the elders of the land.

24 She makes linen garments and sells them,
and supplies the merchants with sashes.

25 She is clothed with strength and dignity;
she can laugh at the days to come.

26 She speaks with wisdom,
and faithful instruction is on her tongue.

27 She watches over the affairs of her household
and does not eat the bread of idleness.

28 Her children arise and call her blessed;
her husband also, and he praises her:

29 "Many women do noble things,
but you surpass them all."

30 Charm is deceptive, and beauty is fleeting;
but a woman who fears the LORD is to be praised.

31 Give her the reward she has earned,
and let her works bring her praise at the city gate


The really wonderful part about being a Proverbs 31 woman, is that once you ARE her, your taker is quieted naturally, and nearly always satisfied.

> I also blocked him from e-mailing me at work.

Better yet, have 'em forwarded to me. I'll take care of 'em.

Ptooey!

This has been printed out and put up in the forefront of my cubicle. Thank you, Dd

Dd is the pig (yes, I had a pet pig once).

I'm Kimmy.

Oh gosh I'm sorry, Kimmy!! I was shortening Dealan-de to Dd! I feel sooooooo bad.

We're texting.

Spartan: You have made me feel empty and numb inside. I feel sick.

Me: I am so sorry, Spartan. I will do whatever you need.

Spartan: I really don't believe you can.

Me: Because you don't believe in me or because you don't want to do this?

No response from him yet, but I'm afraid of what the answer might be.

ROTFLMAOPIMP!

WOULD YOU QUIT APOLOGIZING TO ME!!!!

I was trying to make a funny!

>Me: Because you don't believe in me or because you don't want to do this?


Quit asking these things. DO.

Words whisper.

Actions SHOUT.

Or...to quote Jedi Master Yoda:

"Do or do not...there is no try..."

I'm really outta sorts today. :crosseyedcrazy:

MS, he is only going to believe you by consistant actions, not words. Right now your words are meaningless to him. Each time you get a text like that you should only tell him how sorry you are that you let him and your family down again.

I will do that. When he says angry things to me, I will understand. I'm not going to smother him (as much as I want to) but will wait for him. I'm sure that right now, just the smell of my perfume pi$$es him off.

Spartan: Because up to now, my exectations have exceeded your capabilities.

Me: I am capable of more. I will show you.

Sparky...

How about writing out a plan of what you will do should OM ever somehow get in contact with you?

Make it pretty darn specific...

Ex: If he calls the home phone I will IMMEDIATELY hang up and call Sparty...

If he emails somehow, I will NOT open it, immediately forward it to Sparty and then immediately call Sparty...

If he approaches me in public I will say only, "Get away from me" as I'm turning to walk the other direction to leave AND then I will call Sparty immediately...

If Sparty and I are out eating and the OM comes in to the restaurant, I will IMMEDIATELY inform Sparty, have our food boxed to go and LEAVE...

Stuff like that...Done for all possible circumstances you can imagine...Your marriage is something that both of you are to protect together as a TEAM...Get on Sparty's team Sparky...

Mrs. W

My opinion? Stay in your home and in your bed. If Spartan asks you to sleep elsewhere, do so. But you need to show that you want to be with him as his wife, his partner, and mother of his children. You can't do these things if you're elsewhere.

Don't ask for a kiss, but through your actions show you'll accept one if he offers. Be present so that if he needs your comfort you can offer it.

He just texted back and that's what I replied with.

I'm leaving for lunch with my coworkers. You are more than welcome to call me while I'm out.

YES!

Sparky, leaving right now would only demonstrate to Sparty that you haven't changed! Isn't it your pattern to tuck tail and run when the going gets tough?

No More...Now is the time to stand your ground and face this...

Mrs. W

MS, do you know what my H said to me Sunday after we met with our church leaders about introducing OC to our church family? I had just told him how proud I was because when asked, HE said HE will read the letter he is writing to the church in front of the church. He turned to me and said "it is time for me to take responsibility for my choices"!!!!!! Big big big love bank deposits for me.

I have needed to hear those words for sooooooo long, MS. Spartan needs to see your actions line up with your words.

As Mrs. W said, put a plan together!!!

Oh, one more thing...did you change your number yet?

Better yet, didja have all POSOMs emails forwarded to ME?

Faithy knows how I LOVE to shine the light of truth on those things!

(evil grin)

He'd be poopin' outta new orifice in no time.

One more thing for you to consider Sparky...This talk of moving in with your pastor screams "ESCAPISM"...Just like the affairs...just like the shopping...just like the drinking...just like obsessively working out...

I know you can see the pattern...It's time to break it...

Mrs. W

That's absolutely true. I was going with L4's plan to be there, but to let him approach me. As far as everything else goes, I will continue on with the things that need to be done in the house and with the boys.

I have extended my boundaries further than I ever have before. My coworkers wanted to go to a restaurant that the OM goes to and I told them that I didn't want to go for personal reasons. I could feel the anxiety building up inside of me and when they agreed to go elsewhere, I felt so much relief! When I went to the girls room, I asked my female coworker to answer it if Spartan called (they know each other). I could have taken it with me, but it would have been a trigger for him if he heard me answer it in the restroom. I'm being as acutely aware of his needs as I've ever been.

I know you're chompin' at the bit for an opportunity!

I will forward anything I get from him to you. So far, nothing with is SUCH A RELIEF!! I don't ever want to run into or see or hear from him again to be bluntly honest.

I have stronger boundaries set and have kept telling myself over and over again, "I do not owe the OM ANYTHING."

I haven't changed my number yet because I am waiting on Steve Harley to call me. POSOM is blocked to my number and to my e-mail. It's been a HUGE relief not hearing from him.

MS--I don't believe I have ever posted to you before but have read your sitch. I, too am a FWW and have struggled with the same kinds of issues that you deal with. However, 8 months past d-day and I have not had any contact with OM. I have nothing to say to him, don't want to see him and don't want to have contact with him. He is poison to me--why would I ever want to expose myself (and everyone else) to that?

You are doing the right thing by changing your phone #, etc.

I had to leave my job, my hometown of 43 years, pack up my house, leave my family, go to a dreadful place and leave everything that I had ever known because it was what my H required of me.

Any emails that you receive from him should be deleted without reading or forwarding. You have to erase this OP out of your life altogether. You have to try to turn the situation around and look at it from that point of view.
Good luck to you.

Thank you, Dawn for posting to me. It really means a lot!

I will do whatever it takes to make Spartan:

a) Comfortable
b) Empowered as a man
c) Able to love me again

I have deleted & trashed anything and everything that reminded me of him. ALL OF IT. There isn't one thing that remains in my possession that reminds me of him. I want to go through my cell phone call history and delete his number out of there as well. I don't even want to see his phone number.

HE IS GONE

Once you get through A and B, C naturally follows.

Keep telling yourself that marriages have survived much worse (when YOU feel down).

They have...survived much worse.

You have a flotilla of MB women here lifting you up.

Ya got mail.

And that's EXACTLY the order that I am working for. You notice that trust isn't on the list.....YET. I know it will take years before that is earned.


I've seen those miracles happen here.


You girls are POWERFUL, because I can actually feel it! I've made better choices in one day than I have in years. Today has been SOLID and I feel very accomplished. In fact, the feeling is absolutely healthier and more addictive than the poisonous "meth" drug of the affair.

We have a friend of ours who is a meth addict (now in rehab). I've never done the drug and asked him one day what it did and how it made him feel because I couldn't understand the appeal. He said, "It will make you feel good enough to sit in a pile of your own sh*t and want more." That's pretty much where I was.

No, you should NOT just delete an email if you receive one. You should not open it and immediately tell BH that OM contacted you through email.

LET YOUR BH DECIDE WHAT TO DO. He may tell you to delete it. He may want to delete it himself. He may want to read it first, and then delete it. He may want to email the OM back and give him a piece of his mind. He may want to pay a visit to OM.

Deleting emails without BH's knowledge will only make your BH doubt your sincerity. He must be kept in the loop at all times.

For some reason, my PM's on MB are disabled so I'll have to have a mod take a look and see why. Darnit!!

He shouldn't be able to, but if he does I will let Spartan decide what should be done. I will never open it.


That's the plan not only with e-mails, but as the Christian head of our home. I haven't allow him to do this since we became Christians. The word, "submit" made me crazy, but now I understand the full meaning and am more than willing.

Kimmy must have meant email Sparkster, because PMs are disabled on MB...Boundaries in a place like this are of utmost importance, yanno?

Mrs. W

Oh DUH!! I'm not really thinking.

I'll have to check spam to see if it went there instead.

BTW....you have mail, too Mrs. Dub.

>The word, "submit" made me crazy,

Submit doesn't mean to quit thinking - you know?

There are dozens and dozens of ways to submit WITHOUT comprimising yourself. Methinks you need to think of the minute subtlties of the word instead of seeing the action weilded like one would weild a hatchet.

Christian "submission" is more about creating than taking away anything.