I don't know where to start or if I am posting in the right place. My WW has come back into my life, after 5 years of being apart. Not that she has ever left my life as we have two DD. Her A ended in a bad way and the past five years have been full of her telling me how sorry she is, how much she loves me, how I am the only one. We have a conection she is unable to find with anyone else.

Fact is, everytime she would tell me any of this, she always had two or more men she was involved in. So I never got involved with her, untill six months ago.

I guess I have wanted to belive her so much I did. She called to tell me that she was done. The light came on and after years she has come to understand what was right in front of her was what she was looking for all along.

Well we sat down and had a long talk, she came clean on a lot of things, such as the A I was aware of, the one that broke us up was not her first.

I sat in wonder as she told me how most everything I thought our M was untrue. As it turns out most everything has been a lie.

After a week of talking, both of us telling the truth we came to the idea we could make this work. My WW and I with a new found honesty and desire to work on everything. I was excited as were my DD's.

Well I took the plung, I moved back in. The first week was amazing. Then the two by four upside the head.

I found an im chat on our computer she was having, for whatever reason she did not close out when she came to bed. It was with a guy she has never meet yet is friends with on Facebook. She went on about how she has no idea why she let me back in her life. How I'm not realy the one, how much she would like to get together with him and so on.

That was only the first of three more I found over the next three weeks, and each time she told me how it was a mistake, she would never do it again, she was sorry and what right did I have to look at her private messages.

To make a long story short, I am out again. Been two months now, and guess what she is calling me again, telling me all the same stuff over and over.

What does she want.

She wants the safety and security of a "sure thing" while having the freedom to explore the "new and exciting".

It's up to you to decide if you want to be her "sure thing" under these circumstances.

And what a stinkin' rotten thing to do to your DDs Get their hopes up of an intact family.

Welcome. Sounds like your wife is a serial cheater and has a character defect. She apparently hasn't done the work to make changes, and instead just jumps from man to man.

Glad you are not falling for her babble. During the time you were apart did you date anyone?

I am not a fan of being her "sure thing".

This has been such a hard ride for so many years.

I so wanted to belive her, I thought she had some true honesty in what she was saying.

The fact is I cant trust her can I?

Umm... how can I say this?

I think it's time for a...

PERMANENT PLAN B!

PLEASE tell me that your DDs are staying with YOU and not that chameleon of a woman...

Date, no not really.

I have gone out a few times, but have spent most of my time alone or with my two DD's.

My kids are with me full time. They see my WW every other weekend. We share the holiday time, and she takes them on vacation each summer.

The time when they come home is so very hard. They are so differant than when they left. It takes two or three days for them to become the kids that left to go see Mom.

She wants a nice guy to take out the trash and be there when she is between studs. Do you want to be the fill in guy?

How about getting off the roller coaster? If you don't like living like this, then STOP.

You could have gotten off a long time ago.

No, I don't want to be the fill in guy.

I want and have always wanted to work on our M.

Have a great place for our kids to be and carry on from there.

The past five years have been an emotional whirlwind for me and my kids, and I thought this time she was honest and willing to work on this with us.

Do you want to stop her. Or are you just curious. First she has a desperate desire to be loved. Not to love. Next of course she is a serial cheater.

The way to stop her. Tell her that you would never invest anything more in her then an orgasm. She doesn't have the slightest idea of what love and commitment is. And that she can hang around as long as she wants. That is until you find someone to love that will not go out catting around. Then even the orgasm will be gone.

Well, are you ready now to get off the roller coaster?

I guess you are right.

Just asking but are you sure the kids are your bio kids? If so have you made the legal custody arrangements, she sounds like a dangerous mother. Some of those men might like little girls.

Excellent.

My advice: D your WW as quickly as possible, and get on with your life. Limt your contact with your WW to discuss ONLY D and CS issues. Your DDs need to see what a relationship with true commitment looks like, and what you've got going on ain't it.

You are right, she has no idea on commitment.

I guess it is time to get off the ride as Melody said.

My oldest daughter is not mine. I did adopt her though and love her more than life itself. My second daughter is mine, a little mini me.

OK,

Then protect those kids from this situation, really picking up strangers on the internet is not safe for them.

[u][i][b]Abuse Risk Seen Worse As Families Change[/b][/i][/u]

- Children living in households with unrelated adults are nearly 50 times as likely to die of inflicted injuries as children living with two biological
parents, according to a study of Missouri abuse reports published in the journal of the American Academy of Pediatrics in 2005.


- Children living in stepfamilies or with single parents are at higher risk of physical or sexual assault than children living with two biological or adoptive parents, according to several studies co-authored by David Finkelhor, director of the University of New Hampshire's Crimes Against Children Research Center.

- Girls whose parents divorce are at significantly higher risk of sexual assault, whether they live with their mother or their father, according to research by Robin Wilson, a family law professor at Washington and Lee University. . .

- The previous version of the study, released in 1996, concluded that children of single parents had a 77 percent greater risk of being harmed by physical abuse than children living with both parents. But the new version will delve much deeper into the specifics of family structure and cohabitation, according to project director Andrea Sedlak.

I do the best that I can. They are with me full time. I limit the time they have with her, although she does still see them.

I am sure they hate me for the fact they don't see Mom enough as they are so differant when they come home from the time they do have with her.

I am sure they would rather be with her full time.

The fact is I cant trust her can I? [/quote]

Are you seriously asking or is that a rhetorical question?
You can definitely trust her to keep doing to you what she has been doing...
I'm sorry but I just had to say something!

Some people are not marriage matierial. Do I understand this correctly that you are still married? If that is the case then you need to go to counseling and figure out why you enjoy being abused by a woman like this for 5 years.

Your WW gets to go out with OM with no consequences and you stopped living your life. I know with kids it is tough but you also need to keep in mind what is being taught to your daughters. Are they learing that wives can treat their husbands like crap and men will put up with it? I don't know if that is the case but it is something that you need to think about.

You are a good decent guy that needs to get away from her. Please try and move on without her. Your standards are very low and you deserve much better.

Ok, that just made my heart jump out of my chest!

Lie2Me,

Document the behavior, and take legal action. You should look for supervised visitation only, I doubt you will get it but you can try. I'm not saying your WW would do something intentional but it would be easy to just leave the kids with her latest stud to go to the store or something.

How old is your little girl? The risk that she will be sexually assaulted with your wife's revolving studs is astronomical.

We have cases here of sexual predators who specifically targeted a WW so they could get to her DAUGHTERS. The only thing that prevented his success was a SAVVY father who intervened and got a court order for supervised visitation only.

The D has not happened. We have been seperated for just over five years.

And as for what my kids see, they don't see the truth. They have no idea how things ended up they way they did. I have a great fear of telling them what went on as they are bitter that I keep them away from Mom as much as I do.

I have two girls, 10 and 8 years old.

I hope you will do everything to LIMIT time with their mother. She is clearly CORRUPT.

My father was the same way. He was a serial cheater who took me to bars, racetracks, etc. He spent years teaching me that wrong was right and scr*wed me up terribly. I wish my mother had protected me from his corrupt influence.

L2M,

Please, please man up on this one and take legal action. Melody and I hardly ever agree so please take the advice. You will never forgive yourself if something bad happens. You must err on the side of protecting the children. Melody is completely right that a WW with small daughters is a target for pedophiles.

I keep a record of everything that goes on.

The thought of her allowing something to happen to one of the kids is scarry.

They need to know the truth. Because if you don't tell them the truth and give them MORAL GUIDANCE, YOUR WIFE WILL. You leave them WIDE OPEN and VULNERABLE to her immoral teachings with your silence.

My suggestion would be to do your best to get FULL custody with only supervised visitations. File on her on the grounds of adultery if you can in your state.

Then see a lawyer asap and involve CPS if he advises it.

Thank you for the advice. I guess it is time to do more.

I will not allow this to destroy my kids.

I will not allow her to destroy my kids.

Good job man, from one father to another.

My state is a province. I live in Canada, and I dont know what the law says about that.

However I will find out first thing Monday and take matters into my own hands.

Thanks for all the wisdom. I know what I need to do.

I will let you know what happens.

Good. You are ALL THEY HAVE, Lie2me. Your wife will not protect them. She is corrupt and will corrupt them too if she has a chance.

They already SEE her adultery and are probably very morally confused. I was exposed to my fathers corruption and it SEEMED WRONG TO ME. But since no adult would ever validate that feeling of right and wrong, I grew up profoundly morally confused and learned to DOUBT MYSELF. Obviously, I was a stupid girl to think the things I did.

Also, while your wife is dangerous to them now, she will REALLY BE dangerous to them when they are rebellious teenagers. My father was much more fun to be around than my "authoritarian" mother who made me do my homework and clean my room. My father had the much more powerful influence because he would take me bar hopping in Mexico and smoke pot with me.

6years, I finally agree with you on something! Will miracles never cease?

I understand that one, my WW is the fun one.

The kids tell me I am mean and we have too many rules here.

When they are with the WW, it's a party all the time for them.

My house is homework, chores, and I always thought fun, yet there is a differance between what I let them do and how she tries to be the best friend, not a Mom.

L2M,

You asked "Why is WW back?"

The answer is simple.

She is selfish and wants what she wants, when she wants it.

She operates her life with the idea that she can use men to get what she needs, but quickly tires of them. She does not commit to them, because she is worried that somehow there is something better for her out there - which is a different man who will give her "more". That "more" involves more money, more things, more....more.

This is nothing personal, but take a look at her track record here. She had a longer connection to you because somehow you filled a need in her, and that was probably stability. It was not, however, filling a huge void in her that will likely never be filled - the void she is trying to fill by running around with many men without ever really making a full emotional connection.

While she has her fantasy to fulfill, you have the DDs. That's much more fulfilling than anything WW will ever connect with. And even though right now the DDs might complain about chores, or you not being the fun one, the truth is they ultimately will come to understand the foundation you gave them, and exactly what problems your WW has.


I'm not one to support divorce. In your case, I would say that I wouldn't wait for the ink to dry on the paperwork. It couldn't be fast enough for me.

Your WW is a serial cheater, who shows remorse only when it serves her purposes. She knows what she is doing is wrong, but does nothing to change the behavior. The other men are an addiction with her - the advice of a permanent Plan B is solid. I would make it legal. Plan D.

SB

It is beyond time that you tell your daughters the truth. If you read here, you'll know that the Harleys say you have to tell the kids about the affairs. If you don't, they blame themselves for why you split up and, worse, they believe that their mother looking like a tramp is acceptable, and they will do the same thing when they grow up!

Parents HAVE to have this talk!

I had a long talk with my daughters last night about this situation.

I tried my best to tell them everything, it was hard. a lot harder than I thought it would be.

Much of the conversation was about how the reason for all of this has nothing to do with them. They have no fault in this and are not too be blamed for any of it. The problems are between me and mom.

At the end of it, my DD siad "now I know why mom hates talking to you, it's all lies about her."

What now?

My young one didn't say much of anything, my oldest now thinks I am telling lies about her mom.

I suspect your wife has been feeding them stories for some time about you and blaming the problems on YOU. They have brainwashed into believing that you are the demon.

But thats ok, they will catch on eventually. Just keep telling them the truth and explaining to them WHY adultery is immoral. They need your moral guidance even though they might not hear it right now.

My thoughts exactly. WW has been doing damage control with her lies.

L2M,

One of the things you might want to talk to your DD10 about is how to understand how to watch how she listens to things she hears.

It can be very worthwhile, this conversation.

The thing that has happened here is that she probably believes your WW because that is the first person who talked to her about this situation. Kids kind of work that way - they tend to believe the thing they hear first, instead of working through lots of information and then coming to a conclusion. They learn not to do this after a few rounds of hard knocks, and after some maturity comes into place.

Your daughter, at age 10, hasn't climbed enough rungs on that ladder yet. You can help.

Have a talk with her about gossip at school. About how she might hear someone talking about a kid, and ask her how many times she has heard something from someone first, only later to find out that it just wasn't true at all.

She will tell you that has happened lots of times.

Then, ask her to watch how people act, and judge them based on what they do, not what they TELL you they do. Tell her that adults are the same way, too.

Make the conversation about kids - but in the end, make it about adults. Sum it up with how adults can fool her, even adults she might love. Tell her it is important to realize that even though someone might be the first person to tell her about something, they may not be right about it - and that she should always look for the truth about things. The first thing she hears might not always be the truth.

Tell her watch for what is true - and to talk to you, too.

I always told my girls that there are many people in the world, but they could only count on her parents to be on their side 100% of the time. In your daughter's case, it's down to ONE parent, isn't it?

SB

Sounds like you may be involved with a borderline woman. Try this URL

Borderline Women

Cymanca,

The boderline women url was schocking to read. It sums up my WW in so many ways, not that I have decided this is what her issue is, however so much of it rings true.

She is so good at come here, now go away.

She has told me so many great things about other men, I have my phone going off at all times of the night when she has decided how much she loves me and needs me as I am the only one for her.

Her childhood is textbook, she was abused by a brother beaten by her father. Her mother would not belive her about anything she said.
Her parents were always gone away.

She has an issue with alcohol.

It goe's on and on.

And she blames me for everything that has ever happened in our life.

WOW

I have contacted my lawyer, she is working on my D (that took a long time) I have told her I want full custody, may be very hard to do, yet she is working on it.

I have made a very large list of things to speak with my DD's about, and I hope I can get accross to them what the truth is.

I have no expectation that will happen today, or this week, as I know that my WW fills thier heads with crap all the time.

At no point have I ever thought that I was a perfect husband, I know I have faults, too many to mention here, yet for the longest time it was easy to belive her telling me how my faults caused so much tension. I did this, I did that, everything I did was wrong.

She told me not long ago how she always feels so judged by me. That took me for a loop, from day one she says she felt like I judged her, that I never gave her unconditional love.

I loved her, didn't judge her!

L2M,

She is saying those things to justify her behavior. She is entitled to treat you this way because of the things you did to her. It's all a bunch of hogwash. Why would you even bother to listen to a WW that has done so many horrible things to both you and even worse to her own children? I cannot even imagine how awful it must have been for the children to have some hope that their parents are getting back together just to have your WW contacting OM's within the first week you are all back under the same roof. That is about as bad as it gets. You should fight with everything you have to get full custody and RUN from this woman.

Mindshare

How true,

It is amazing how long it took for me to understand all of this, 5 years of playing her games. At the end though I have a great understanding of what I need to do, and at least I am taking the steps I need to get away from her.

If I had done all the things I said I would do before, I would not have put myself or my kids through this pain.

I want to thank all of you for the insight you gave me. I guess I always new that my M was over, I just didn't want to face it.

I admit to this day for some reason I still love her, or I still think I love her. I guess I dont know what I feel.

I guess I was just the person that thought I could make it work one way or another. However it takes two and I am by myself. It is hard to look at this situation and fully understand how hurtfull it has been for everyone.

I hope with time my DD's will come to understand, I'm sure they will, they are bright yet very confused by it all.

Again thank you and I am off to plan D.

What this means is that she doesn't WANT you to judge her because she knows she is doing wrong. She is trying to manipulate you, Lie2me.

You have done the right thing, my friend, and some day your DD's will know what you did for them. You are a good man, Lie2me, and a good father.

Thanks,

I try my best with my kids.

I am on to plan D now, paperwork is being done, I should be able to have her served by early next week.

It feel's good to be at this point.

L2M,

This is a marriage building forum...but not all marriage can (or should) be saved. You are far better off without this woman in your life. She has major issues and you will continue to be hurt again and again as has already been proven. Sorry to hear about the D process but it is time to move on. Hopefully, you will stick around these forums and continue reading and posting and try to learn what it is about you that allowed yourself to put up with a woman like that for so long. You need to figure that out before your next relationship. I belive you can and will as long as you educate yourself and look inward.

Mindshare

As a lawyer (I'm a tax lawyer but I've been on these boards for awhile now and seen a lot)...I strongly advise you to DOCUMENT EVERYTHING.

Document exactly what you said to your daughters and there responses to the best of your recollection in your own handwriting in a dated journal. IF your wife fights for custody...you can bet that they will find out about this conversation and try to turn it against you. Make it out to be you trying to alienate her from the kids and involving them in "adult matters". It wouldn't hurt if someone here linked in Dr. Harley's words on "the lessons children learn" and his words about why children should be told about their wayward parents activities. Print that out and put in in the journal so you can refer to it as you write out your reasoning and what was said. See this makes it appear that you actually researched it and were trying to be a good parent and even if the judge were to think what you did wasn't great...he/she would SEE that you were actually behaving rationally with forethought and about the kids and not just being vindictive.

Perhaps you should start the journal by summarizing the last 5 years with every detail you can remember. Try to be factual and non-emotional about it. Remember to date it and insert as many dates as you can. This MAY be read in court someday (reading from notes prepared at the time of the events or thereabout are much much more persuasive and credible than simple hindsight recollection on the witness stand.

Make a hard copy of all email correspondance with your wife.

Change your email passwords just in case your wife has guessed them.

Continue to keep a journal of facts. If you are not great at this...then maybe get a large desk calender and jot down short notes on each day as things occur. Each month...remove the page and store it securely. Don't even trust your daughters to take them and/or copy them. Get a safe maybe (and bolt it down).

Your daughters are soon to obtain an age where they may have input in their own custody arrangement. Input doesn't mean the court will honor their wishes necessarily as they are still children...but it makes defending your custody much harder down the road. Thus...you won't be able to stop documenting your case until the youngest attains age 18.

Maybe your wife won't fight you. However, if she does you must be prepared to protect your children. It is my understanding that Canada general has a one year divorce process so this is going to take awhile and your daughters will be even older as the case matures....so be steadfast with protecting them.

Most importantly...don't ever just presume because you've had the kids 5 years that you will automatically win. Do your research and prepare your case. I've seen men here spend 5-10 hours a week documenting and preparing there cases. I don't know where you will find the time but just don't allow yourself to get blindsided. If your wife is borderline...ANYTHING is possible.

Additionally...the more prepared you are at the outset of this fight the less likely her attorney will push her to fight.

Good luck,

Mr. Wondering

errrr....can't edit.

I hate when I spell "their"..."there".

Probably a bunch more too.

Oh, well.

Thanks for all the input. I have kept notes over the last five years, however it would be worth it to go back and insure I have not left anything out.

And as soon as I can get her out of my life the better.

I also fear removing her from your life will be more difficult for you than you think.

A part of you LIKES the drama and she's likely to see your pulling back as a challenge. You've caved so many times before it's gonna take a lotta resolve not to cave again.

Often when BS herein go to Plan B...they themselves go through withdrawal.

If I were you I'd consider anti-depressants (though they could hurt your custody case a tad) and also that you keep posting herein. Maybe the divorcing board would also be a good place.

Good luck,
Mr. Wondering

Tough situation for you. I dated a woman like that once. My life would have been he77 if I had actually married her. My exww? Elements of BPD, but I don't think she has it.

I commend you for being the dad you are. Sure, you may be the hard work and chores and stuff, but they'll appreciate that when they grow up.

One way to change that is to have the girls spend a little more time with your WW and impose responsibility on her.

I don't know the law in Canada but you have an established custody with the 5 years you had the girls. This should help a lot.

Stay strong. Get yourself your own counselor so that you never end up with a woman like this again.

Best of luck.

I wont take anything at this pont and for having my kids spend more time with her... thats a scary thought.

I am ready for the bs to end so I hope with strength I will get through it. My kids keep me going.

You don't WANT her spending more time with your kids, remember? Not as long as she keeps up her current "revolving studs" lifestyle-long as she's still doing that, then the more time your girls spend with her, the more likely it is they'll end up alone with one of her studs who happens to like little girls.

No, the LESS time they spend around their mother the better, even if they don't see it that way right now.

I agree, the less time they spend with her the better, I didn't mean to confuse the situation.

They more time they spend with her, the more chance they will have to see what type of mother she realy is. At this time, they spend every other weekend with her thats it.

I was cleaning my storage room today and found my luggage from the last spring dealer meetings with Ford Motor Company that I went on. That was the day her EA turned into a PA. It's 5 years and 11 months to the day today.

That is a huge kick in the A$$.

I just cant wait for my six years of pain post.

Only 30 days and counting...

Well what a great start to the day,

A long email from the WW about how honesty is now her new thing. She has come to understand how has hurt so many people with her lies and so on.

She has asked me to try and offer her a new level of trust as she is now an open book and wanting to work on our relationship whatever form that may take.

I took the time to snoop, right or wrong I did.

I can see her Facebook home page by going in on my DD's as they are friends. So I read some wall posts to her friends.

Her last conversation was of her trip to Japan, She has never left Canada.

At some point and I'm not sure when she moved to Vancouver, yet she told this guy she lives in downtown Van.

We all live in Calgary.

Perhaps I should not have looked but I did and if this is honesty wow, I need to learn a few new things.

There was a lot more, but it's not worth posting.

She actually has photos that she put on her facebook of another persons trip to Japan and is trying to pass them off as her's?

I don't get it.

Why tell people you live in a city you don't live in.

Everything I read is a bunch of lies.

Hmm...

Send a brief response to her (two sentences), thanking her for her note, then asking her "Did you enjoy your trip to Japan?"

That should about do it.

It's so hard to understand. Anyone could take the time to look at her Facebook and see all the lies she puts on there. And then to send me a new bunch of lies.

I have no way of understanding how she works or what she thinks.

And I did send a reply much like what you said Maninmotion, although it was a bit more than two lines.

Any more than two lines would have probably been too much IMO. You're dealing with an accomplished liar - the more you tell her, the more material you're giving her to weave her lies and excuses.

Did she respond, BTW?

She has not responded as of yet, she will, she always does, she has a problem with the internet right now, a bill problem I think.

I always respond with more than two lines, I always have so much to say, I just went back and read a repyl I sent her the other day. It's about fifty lines. I am going to post it here for you guys to look at.

This is a reply to a conversation we had three days ago.

Quote

I have no issue having a rational conversation with you, however when every conversation starts with me being accused of talking poorly about you, it's not rational. At no time do I speak poorly about you, you in general do not come up at all, and when you do, I hate to break it to you I always have something positive to say. I don't sit here and roll my eyes, I don't make comments, I generally just don't say anything, unless it is positive. I don't ask about you, I never initiate conversation about you, I ask if the girls had a good day or night and that's it. I don't ask what they did with you, I don't ask anything at all.

That's how it started last night, you don't like the way you are talked about. For your information nothing poor was said about you, not a single thing. However it seems that I am unable to say anything ever, as anytime I do, it comes back and bites me. I am unable to be helpful to the kids, everything I do is mean or to strict.

I am told all the time the rules are too hard here, yet not a single person can explain to me what is so tough here. Is it making beds? Is it helping with dishes? Is it ensuring dinner conversation is proper and appropriate for the table?

No matter what I say or do, I get a phone call from you with vague innuendo about how hard it is here for the girls.

You tell me they are miserable here. You tell me I snap on them or blow up all the time. Yet I am very aware of how I act with the kids and at no time do I just go off the deep end. If I do raise my voice, and I have trust me, it is in response to one of the girls not listening. There are times when you must raise your voice just so they will listen to you. I have heard you on numerous occasions raise your voice, many times I have witnessed you snap, or just yell at them, so I assume you understand how frustrating it can be when they refuse to listen to you.

Last night I asked Taylor to start on her homework, she looked at me, said no and walked away. I repeated myself without raising my voice and this time she said no, I don't want too. At that point I did raise my voice, and I did explain to her she would start her homework and she would start it right now, as she has a large religion project due on Thursday and her regular homework on top of that. She pouted and was in a pissy mood until she finished. All she wanted to do was play on Facebook, and when she was able to do so she was happy again. If that is strict, lock me up. I'm guilty.

As for your logic with church, I guess anytime you do something with the girls I can just invite myself along. As it is not about you and I, it is about them. So pass on a schedule of your activities and I will let you know what I would like to be a part of with the girls.

If it is all true, and I am such a bad parent, and that's what it feels like, then perhaps you should take the girls full time. As I have no interest in them being as miserable as you say they are. I want them to be happy and have the very best they can have, that's all. No matter what I ever do, I get a call from you telling me it's all wrong, things are to strict here. I am to mean, I am different, I snap, they can't breath without permission, it's a massive list of things you have told me I do wrong with the girls.

I think the best thing would be for them to be full time with you, as it is obvious they are much happier with you than they are with me.

How bad was that?

Much too long. None of it will sink in and none of it will register.

Zero.

The second you understand that educating her in any way is a waste of time the better. This is simply to save you the time of writing out such things.

Don't get into tit for tat defenses of what you do in your home. They simply don't get it. My ex makes accusations with no basis in fact and with nothing but assumptions.

I've learned to simply let them go and be indifferent to her opinions.

Your response also doesn't address her newly discovered appreciation for her "honsty".

Your best response would be:

I have received your thoughts on honesty.

How was your trip to Japan?

How about that move to Vancouver? This surprised me since you've never left Calvary.

Sincerely,

Lie2Me

I know, this has been a problem for years, I have always been egged into something with her.

True enough I score a zero.

Pretty bad, as she'll likely focus on the last line as you agreeing that she should have full-time custody of the kids.

SHE IS A WW.

Your responses to any of her babble should be one paragraph, perhaps even as small as one sentence.

e.g.

"WW, I do not agree with your characterization of me and the way I treat our kids."

"So, how was your trip?"

I knew it before I sent it to her, I have always felt a need to defend myself and how the kids are with me. That thing about her and the kids, she just lost her house so it was me taking an imature shot at her.

I will work on the one or two line answers and try to let every thing else go.

Water off a ducks back.

Our parenting coordinator told us that unless there was blood on the floor and someone about to die that we didn't need to communicate.

Your exww can run around all she wants and rant and rave about how much you stink as a husband and father.

What I learned, the hard way, was that people make up their own minds and they really need to see proof before believing all the lies spewed by a WW.

That helped me cool down my need to feel I had to defend everything she said if it was a threat to me getting custody.

Otherwise, who cares what she thinks? Really. Why would you care what a deranged lunatic thinks that lives in her own reality?

Let her think whatever she wants. You just carry on with your life.

Indifference is your goal.

Her criticism of you should feel the same as any criticism that I would give you.

Here, lets try this:

Lie2me, I think you suck as a father. You don't feed your kids the right foods, you smell funny, and your kids clothes are too dirty. Your kitchen needs mopping all the time and you should run the hoover on your carpets more often.

You have long nose hairs and should be nicer to the kids.



See? See how little you care what I, a stranger on the internet think of you or what you do?

Start thinking the same way about your WW. It's very liberating.

I can see how it would be liberating, and thank you for the laugh, although I do need to trim the nose hairs.

thanks for that.

We need to see someone, although she has never agreed to it, yet with D in our province it is requiered to see a family counseler when kids are involved. I hope this helps, I have always just wanted her to see the light a bit, to understand she is being a bit off at times.

I have given up hope, after 3 years, that this will every happen with my exww. She sees things her way and is as entitled as ever. It was liberating to accept that not even a fully sane person that can see things in a balanced way would ever get her to see the reality.

In her mind we would have divorced and been super friends and might even have ended up back together again someday if I had only gone off quietly, done as she demanded, and settled for seeing my kids whenever it suited her. She never thought I'd want equal time with them.

It's my fault, in her mind, that we don't get along and that I don't come over and hold hands with her and her boyfriend and sing Kumbaya while the kids dance around us happy we're all such great friends and bunnies hop about with rainbows in the distance while flower petals fall from the ceiling and we're all smiles.

The idea that it would be extremely painful for me to see my kids spend more time with another man than with me AND lose my wife, my job, my career, my lifestyle, and living location, and be homeless never really crossed her mind.

A WW has the epitome of entitlement and the shining example of narcissism.

So having a third party point out the balanced point of things won't do as you hope. It will merely serve to show how it's your fault that you're poisoning others against her or that you're portraying yourself, in her mind, as someone you're not.

Trust me, I've lived it.

Waywards aren't worth it. You've been at this for 6 years, my friend. Time to move on.

Wow, you hit the nail on the head, this is my WW

It is time to move on and be done with her.

The above post is just too, too easy. I'm sorry, but I'm compelled to get on my little soapbox once again. At least for a moment:



I tell you truly, they always were this person. The adultery just brought it out into the open. They are this person and always will be this person. Thy may hide it well at times, even for long periods of time, but the person they are while they revel in adultery is who they really were, are and will be. They are simply letting themselves do what they want and have always wanted.

There are plenty of people who are not this way. But, these adulterous people are who they are.

You can do better, by far.

It's true, I can do much better, however I always wanted to think that my WW was not who she realy is today. I had always hoped that she would come around and be the person I thought she was.

Dreams are great yet reality is where my life is.

With my D in the works, my WW is not aware of this as of yet, I guess the question is, do I tell her of my plans for the big D?

I have no idea of how she will react when she gets served, do I say anything to try and prevent a fight, should I care if it is hard or uncomfortable for her when it happens.

Do I tell my girls about it ahead of time, or do I just stay dark about it all and let whatever happens happen?

You are going to need to have a couple of different responses prepared.

I would suggest one that basically tells her. " Come on honey, you were only kidding about reconciling. I mean you don't offer reconciliation when you are arranging to sleep with multiple other men. You will be much happier free.

The other one is if she gets angry,

But honey. We tried reconciling twice, and you were still arranging to have sex with men you had never met. I'm lonely, and I want to give my life to woman who loves me, and isn't interested in having sex with strangers all the time, like you. I could never be comfortable being back with you again. The amount of tests for STDs that I would be required to take, would drive me bankrupt. Then I wouldn't be able to provide for our daughters.

Just understand, that she will beg and plead probably. Tell her you will think about it. But the whole time continue on with the divorce. Hell, who knows that this may not actually get her to look in the mirror and see what she has become.

Thanks for the input, I'm sure it will be a blow up, just want to be ready for it.

thanks.

L2M,

I don't recall the age of your children, but I would tell them ahead of time what your plans are and why. Do it in an age appropriate manner, in fact perhaps doing it with a counselor there might help, depending on their age and what their knowledge level of your W's behavior actually is.

God Bless,

JL

And if she blows up, then so what?

Remember, you're striving for indifference.

So she rants and raves. Hang up on her and see what's on the History Channel. You've been divorced for years. It just hasn't been official.

So now it will be.

You don't have to listen to a word she says.

That is true, I don't have to listen to anything she say's to me.

As for my girls, they are 10 and eight.

Having an official person who works with the court system tell me that I don't have to talk to the ex unless there is blood on the floor or someone about to die was the most liberating thing I could have ever heard.

It helped me realize that I gave her power by getting upset or by defending anything.

The pettiness hasn't ended. I had her drop my kids off, per our court order, to me a few weekends ago. We're supposed to meet about halfway.

I emailed her to see if she was willing to meet me at the halfway mark or at the closer location if she was going to come to the town I live in.

She told me to go to the halfway mark, which is a 30 minute drive.

What happened?

I got the kids and she passed me on my way back to my town. She made me drive an extra 20 minutes that i didn't have to drive. I started getting upset, but then told myself "He who angers you controls you" and reminded myself that such pettiness is to be expected from her.

A snake is a snake and you can't fault it for being a snake.

Your WW is a WW and will stay a WW and will continue to act as a WW and forever feel entitled.

But, Lie2Me, IT'S ALL YOUR FAULT! THINGS WOULD BE GREAT IF YOU ONLY DID THINGS HER WAY!

You long nose haired, no floor mopping freak! Poo on you!

Indifference. Apathy. A look of boredom shold be all that's on your face.

She rants and raves and yells while you simply look straight ahead and wonder, "what IS the airspeed velocity of an unladen swallow?"

Baron, I love your posts as they all hit home.

A snake is a snake and it will always be a snake.

I am working hard on letting everything roll off my back. It is still hard, yet I am getting better.

As for the pettines, I see that all the time.

St. Patricks day she had the kids the night before and called me and asked me to bring my young one's green Lu Lu lemon sweater for her, I said in the most polite way possible, since you need to go right past my house to drop them at school, why don't you just pop in here and grab it on the way, it would save me an hour round trip in traffic right now.

her response was hmmf, oh come on, cant you just bring it over now.

I did, for my daughter or she would not have had anything to wear that was green.

She is bery petty.

This was odd for me,

The WW called from a number I don't know, so I answered, smart on her part.

She went into a long speach about how much she has changed so much, how she is a good mom, her new found honesty and so on.

At the end of it she asked me why I don't seem to care, why am I not standing up and saying how proud I am of her. Her new bf is proud, why can't I be?

I said good for you. That's it, thats all I said.

Then her speach went into why don't I love her? Why am I so cold towards her and it went on and on.

At the end I said I will have the girls call her to say goodnight before bed.

She has not called back yet.

I think that went well.

I didn't get angry, mad, sad or anything. I was completley emotionaly blank towards her.

Don't think she liked it, but she has not called back.

"completley emotionaly blank towards her"

that is an excellent approach - keep it up

if you show her one moment of caring, she will use a crow bar to pry you open

she is an emotional vampire

Thanks pep,

Thats my new game plan.

Good way of handling that. Another good response would be, "Do you have anything regarding the children which you wish to discuss?"

If she says no, then say, "Ok. Goodnight then."

And then hang up. Ignore any further calls after that.

Watch as she gets nuttier and nuttier as you fail to respond to her cries for attention.

And she has a lot of gall to actually tell you that her boyfriend is happy for her. Or did you mean best friend? BF?

No her boyfriend. She has no friends that don't start with boy.


I like that, it's very direct and to the point without being rude.

Thanks for the input.

Seriously, after a while you'll feel like your conversations with her are a giant waste of time. You'd rather be doing other stuff.

So try my suggestion for the next time and watch the fireworks fly.

I will try it, I already feel like conversations with her are a waste of time.

It has been a long time since I have looked forward to her calls.

I was just reading the Madona Whore Syndrome that Believer started and it made me think alot.

Why did I marry a sleazy woman?

I am not a stupid man, clues were all over the place if I had taken the time to pay attention to them. I do think if I spent the time to look more I would have seen what I needed to see.

Don't get me wrong or take this the wrong way, I ended up with the best of it, two DD's that are the light of my life.

But what I see now makes me wonder how I could have been so blind?

She had her first A that I know of just after second DD was born.

two years after that the full blown A that I found out about all on my own. Should I have noticed the signs?

All her other men do.

Her first guy ran as fast as he could according to my WW when she finaly told me about it.

Her second A was over after 1 year, thats when reality came into affect. She wanted what he didn't. She wanted to be a part of is family, he would have none of it, she was great as a side item, not a main dish.

From there she went to her boss with whom she had a three year A that just ended in Oct last year when he fired her, she wanted more, and he was unwilling to leave his family for her.

In between that she had met a guy where sparks flew, he was her soulmate, her soulmate as long as she was not a part of his life outside the bedroom. His family was offlimit to her.

Her next soulmate was a real winner. Again all about sex, they has a six month fling that ended after they brought a PRO in to help them with a fantasy. He dumped her right after and in his email dump told her she had gone too far as the next day she was in a hot tub without him, however she was with two other couples, and it was a party, with all five ending up in one bed.

None of this is new, I must have been blind to so much to marry a woman all these other men run from.

How did I miss the signs?
Why do I still have feelings for her?
WHY, WHY, WHY.

I thank god everyday for my girls, but WHY?

My god, I have never felt as stupid as I do now.

It's not like her wanten life started after we got married.

It was there all the time, and knowing what I am aware of now is realy just killing me inside.

I have always thought of myself as fairly bright, untill today.

I am disgusted by the thought of ever having touched her.

I am even more upset by the fact I still have feelings for her.

My god, how stupid am I.

Lie2Me,

You're being too hard on yourself and are also experiencing something that many of us have felt regarding an ex.

I had an ex fiance who was hot. Her looks overrode her crazyness. She was exciting.

You might be drawn to drama. A normal woman might appear boring to you. While drama queens are exciting when things are good, but it sucks when they aren't.

OR you have White Knight Syndrome, which I shared with you.

The secret now is to not repeat the behavior in future relationships.

My therapist has told me that focusing on the why isn't as important as just not doing the destructive behavior anymore.

But that's some history with your WW. This one sounds like a lost cause.

You're in your early 40s. Women in their 30s rock, for the most part.

Not telling you to go out and test the waters, but things are good out here once you're ready.

You need to heal first. That means a loooooong break from dating.

I know I am being hard on myself, that post realy struck a coard with me, and I felt very stupid. Still do.

I understand about not repeating the same behavior, and I am focused not to do so. I dont think I am drawn to drama, perhaps White knight Syndrome, although if either of those were issues I was dealing with I know I wont ever go through this again.

As for her, she is a lost cause.

The good part is my two DD's.

I guess everything is worth it for them.

Well the DD's go see the WW today after school.

this is the past I fear the most. I fear what she will say and do. She is not a mother to the kids in anyway, well in my opinion anyway.

It's the attitude that my oldest comes home with that realy is hard to deal with.

I don't know if it's anger at her mom, anger at me or what it is, yet it always takes a day, sometimes two days before she act's like herself again.

She could spend an hour with the WW and come home a differant kid.

Don't get it.

So ask her. Ask her what she's feeling. Don't put it down or contradict it. Just listen and acknowledge her feelings.

Give her a hug and tell her you know it's hard on her.

Kids hate divorce the most.

I try very hard to talk to her, she say's at times it's hard to talk to me. I don't know if WW puts thoughts in her head that she has a hard time with or she just hates going back and forth as my house is so very differant than where my WW is now.

I listen, I don't judge her feelings, I just wish she would share more.

>Don't think she liked it, but she has not called back.

She doesn't.

She prolly didn't call back.

She's VD with a job.

Everything she says, VD has said.

(BARF)

Ok, so the phone rings, it the WW's number which is great as the kids are with her tonight, so it's them calling to say night dad.

No it's WW letting me know that her msn messanger is sending out a porn virus "so don't open anything that has my name on it" a friend of her's got hit by a message she sent.

What the heck is that?

I don't use msn, she should know that, I assume I would need to have an account for this to happen, so was this just her way of trying to chat with me?

It was over very fast, I aske of this had anything to do with the kids, she said no, I said goodbye.

Never understand her.

Yes, it was.

L2,

yes it was. but not for the right reasons. I thought my WW was rally bad. I thought i had put up with a lot. I also married for hotness, and it makes up with a lot. But not nearly this much. She has cheated on you for practically your whole marriage hasn't she.

Nothing will happen until you get rid of her. Maybe, maybe, one day she'll wake up, but I doubt it. If she does you prob won't want her back. I have to totally agree with BR here. Get your ducks in a row and file for D. Protect those kids.

Stop worrying about why she is calling you. It isn't with your best interest in mind.

So friday night without the kids was ok, saw a movie hung oput with some friends.

I was very happy when the kids came home.

Well me being me, I snooped on DD's facebook, and low and behold she had posted three pictures of the night with mom, and what do ya know, in one picture you can see a guy that I don't know.

Asked who he was, DD said he was a friend of mom's and he's nice. Well maybe he is, however she is not allowed to have men over when she has the DD's.

I don't know what to do.

Save the picture and give it to your lawyer and file for contempt of court and for sole physical and legal custody of the kids.

I have kept the picture and I will pass it on.


I guess in the end you can just never trust again.